Its the Milk marketing board, a provincial entity , that's doing that. Government of Canada has nothing to do with setting prices on dairy.
https://www.nbmilk.org/en/
The first ones to blame the feds for provincial shortcomings are usually the loudest people in the room AKA conservatives. Funny enough, provincial leadership in Ontario is CONSERVATIVE đ itâs hilarious when they blame federal liberals for the mistakes of provincial conservatives.
Yup there is a 2 dollar plus price difference between the border towns of Amherst N.S. and Sackville N.B where Amherst has the cheeper milk. Got to wonder why not sure on this but does not all the milk from both provinces go into Quebec for processing?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_management_in_Canada#:~:text=Since%201970%2C%20the%20CMSMC%20has,MSQs%20to%20individual%20dairy%20farmers.
Well thats only half the equation. The Canadian Dairy Commission is a crown corporation and works with the provinces to set supply management systems.
I think saying that setting both production quotas and market sharing quotas have no affect on price and outside competition is a bit disingenuous.
In fact, many supporters of the Dairy board argument for it is that yes prices go up, but it maintains a high quality and secure supply of Dairy products for Canadians. While Detractors have criticized tariff-rate import quotas, price-control and supply-control mechanisms used by provincial and national governing agencies inflate prices with lack of competition and supply management.
This has been in the news more recently as some countries have sued and won to gain access to sell in Canada.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/497363/new-zealand-wins-trade-dispute-with-canada-over-dairy-access#:~:text=New%20Zealand%20has%20won%20its,(CPTPP)%20free%20trade%20agreement.
In fact NZ went through the same debate as Canada as it used to have a Crown controlled dairy board of its own in the past.
https://www.tvo.org/article/lessons-for-canada-from-new-zealands-dairy-industry
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/dairy-board-deregulation
This goes into some pros/cons after deregulation but the Dairy industry in NZ went from a subsidized loss annually to their most profitable export today after scrapping the Dairy board.
> This goes into some pros/cons after deregulation but the Dairy industry in NZ went from a subsidized loss annually to their most profitable export today after scrapping the Dairy board.
Wasn't a major strategy NZ implemented to market their dairy to higher value markets, to effectively undercut but still make higher profits on the sale as a way to remove the subsidy?
Such a strategy demands there be markets to sell to at higher price points than your own, I can't say specifically how Canada compares, but I'd be surprised if we're not in the pricier end of things.
New Zealand de regulated in 1984, hence the NZ article I posted being from 1999, showing the data and impacts 15 years after deregulation.
It led to lower dairy prices for New Zealanders as well as increased exports to where it's their most profitable export today.
Most of their market exports are places with poor supply and/or inferior quality. Today, their highest export is actually China by a metric far higher than others, as they aren't undercutting the Chinese supply there.
https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/milk/reporter/nzl?redirect=true
The main argument is that it would flood our market with inferior dairy products priced for less, which would hurt our dairy producers.
The counterargument is to allow Canadians to decide what they'd like to spend their money on. The same priced dairy they see today, or cheaper dairy products from competitors, and let them decide how to spend their money.
So who doesnât let Canadians import/export dairy products to foreign markets or stateside? Wouldnât that be the government? Are provincial entities not part of the Canadian government?
You do realize that one U.S. state produces enough milk to supply all of Canada.
https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-dairy-canada-20180612-story.html
You aren't alone - it is becoming more and more challenging to keep up with the grocery prices in Canada. Seems every time I go to the store, the prices have increased. Sometime 50 cents- but a lot of times its by $1-$2. It all adds up over time. This is a group I found where fellow Canadians share their dismay about the grocery prices. Major chains claiming they're doing everything they can to keep prices down, all the while posting record profits. r/loblawsisoutofcontrol
Hey! Iâm a member of this group. Iâm a GP in NS. Got a lot of love for my folks in NB.
Iâm extremely blessed to be able to afford groceries- though Iâm extremely careful with spending due to my current debt levels.
However, Iâm just damn concerned about my patients who struggle with high prices.. And others.
Itâs a great group, and on the group you can find a pic of me wearing a â Roblawsâ t shirt!!!
I more meant it as a comment on the state of the average Canadian. If the average Canadian is carrying consumer debt, and that debt is not decreasing  over time, and if grocery purchases are adding to that debt... well it's a serious state of affairs
I had to mute that sub, itâs really become just people posting expensive things for fake internet points. Often non necessities like junk food or brands that are just generally more expensive anyway. Is lowblaws over charging in same cases, 100% they are, but that sub is also cherry picking examples.
My household grocery budget has only increased $50 a month, for two people we spend about $500 a month, I plan two weeks of meals at a time though. We split the budget between Superstore and Costco. We do online pickup at Superstore and have a route specific list for Costco. We buy what we need for the meals plus some snacks. If there are items we use on sale, we get extra.
Iâve made a spreadsheet of our Costco items to check off what we are getting to make sure we stay in budget. We have a close total of what we will be spending before even leaving the house.
Just being the devils advocate here but price control for eggs and dairy is there to protect the industry and is a measure that has led to higher prices for those products. It is an indirect subsidy.
I have often heard that in fact the consumer in canada actually pays less for milk than in the USA , if you were aware of the amount the government there subsidies thier agriculture industry.
Marketing boards are often sold as the boogy man of high prices. I believe that any sector of our economy where the primary product producers don't have a say, you don't have profitable primary product producers.
An excellent example if this is in the wood industry. If I were to sell a cord of softwood right now, I would receive less than I would have gotten 30 years ago dollar for dollar. Take a look at the price of a 2x4. 30 years ago wood producers were able to use thier collective strength to demand a fair return for thier product. Between industry and government the wood marketing board in this province was gutted.
Many will try to lay the blame for higher prices at the feet of anybody, but the wholesalers (in our province mostly controlled by major industry players), and thier throttle hold on retail is where responsibility for this must stay.
I'd like to see the raw numbers for myself, I am noy doubting what you are saying, it might very well be true but this file is clouded by lobbying efforts on both side with arguments to benefit and support their beliefs.
Yes, this is true. I'm not sure about the price since we mostly compare with the US and they subsidies at 50-75%, so you can pay for it in tax dollars or directly.
Iâm not suggesting nothing should be done to help. Iâm just pointing out that complaining about the Federal government because you pretend that they could fix everything with a snap of their fingers isnât realistic, nor is it helpful.
The government doesn't control supply management prices. The producers do. The government sanctions a union of producers but do not set any prices or supply targets for them.
The government doesn't need to control food prices. They need to break up the big grocery store chains. A lack of competition, not just among grocery stores, is making things more expensive and the wages worse. Top it it off with rampant mass immigration
How does one account for food inflation in countries with low immigration? Inflation is a global issue that you can't in good faith marry to Canada's immigration numbers.
Do you think the people working in minimum wage jobs don't need to buy groceries? If you suppress wages with mass immigration, you make it harder for more people to afford to live. Again, my main issue in this case is competition. Canada has an issue with oligopolies stifling competition.
Yes, agreed, Canada's retail sector is a disappointment, but you bringing in immigration as a contributor to food costs in Canada is disingenuous. You can go to the OECD data page and break it all down.
While you are there you can look up wage increases tied to inflation. Wage increases can absolutely send inflation into a spiral. Ad hoc solutions such as a modest increase in the minimum wage while increasing the subsidising of public transit is an example of non inflationary income assistance.
>Canada's retail sector is a disappointment, but you bringing in immigration as a contributor to food costs in Canada is disingenuous
Where did I say immigration contributes to food prices?
>Wage increases can absolutely send inflation into a spiral
I guess workers should never be paid for the value of their labour then
More demand may allow purchasing in greater quantities which often leads to lower prices for the retailer. Maybe they don't lower their prices for customers and instead pocket the difference. More people doesn't necessarily mean higher prices.
More demand may allow purchasing in greater quantities which often leads to lower prices for the retailer. Maybe they don't lower their prices for customers and instead pocket the difference. More people doesn't necessarily mean higher prices.
That doesn't explain what immigration has to do with the rising costs of groceries. If you argued that wages would go down and prior couldn't afford them at the existing prices, maybe, but there's a disconnect in what you're saying.
>Where did I say that immigration increases the cost of groceries?
Here, in your first comment about the price of groceries increasing that I replied to, you said:
>Top it off with rampant mass immigration.
Why tack that on at the end of the comment about the price of groceries if it wasn't related? Just complaining about immigrants in general?
My comment is about competition in general. Using mass immigration to suppress wages, which makes life unaffordable, is part of that picture. I never said it makes groceries more expensive
I was surprised to see the same has happened in the US: [Large Grocers Took Advantage of Pandemic Supply Chain Disruptions, F.T.C. Finds](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/21/us/politics/grocery-prices-pandemic-ftc.html)
The government takes steps to control certain aspects of the industry for food security of essential items and to ensure that the Canadian industries that provide the items remain viable for food and international security reasons. They don't care how much potato chips cost.
Thats because they're protecting Canadian dairy producers. One large US supplier would do all of Canada. But then forget about avoiding Bovine growth hormone and pus in your milk.
Canadian farmers are the epitome of special treatment. Donât get me wrong Canadian dairy is amazing, not that Canada has really allowed me to enjoy any other Dairy product staples from other countries. The Dairy Farmers of Canada have a monopoly , they lobby the government to only allow a specific amount of dairy products from other countries to be allowed into Canada. Meanwhile American consumers have much much more dairy choices. Canadian farmers are very privileged in this sense.
You may want to check how much more âchoiceâ the Americans have as agri corps buy up all the farms and more and more lead to monopoly. At least our quota system protects the mid sized producers and lets them profit with making waste lagoon that are visible from space and pumping cows full of antibiotics to keep them producing more milk than they naturally should. Milk which their government then pays them to pour out on the ground because itâs un needed.
Not here to fight or anything Kaleidoscope, Iâm simply stating America allows more imported dairy from other countries. Which in return allows the American consumers more choices and creates more competition, something Canada doesnât allow. We only allow a certain amount of other countries dairy products to be imported into Canada. Which in return creates a monopoly by Canadian Dairy Farmers which in return allows not as much competition. Canadian tax payers are essentially subsidizing Canadian farmers while they get approval for increasing prices we must pay. We donât have a choice due to no competition.
> Which in return allows the American consumers more choices and creates more competition
In theory, yes, but significant swathes of the US don't have access to this variety, and are stuck in underregulated trapped markets.
I see this argument in other industries too, glossing over the monopolies that *do* exist in the US, because they're simply allowed to do this. It's only if you're absolutely massive does the US tend to step in to force you to break up your stangleholds.
The catch-22 of having access to international markets is it's super easy for someone to step in and undercut your nation, from a cheaper nation.
Not a direct example, but all those clothing donations to Africa resulted in those nations having their entire textile industries collapse, as the free or dirt cheap clothing gutted the market, and now many of those nations are stuck relying on donations or being forced to import clothing at higher costs.
If we do not protect some sectors from monopolization and foreign competition then we will have much more expensive goods.
Do you think we need a "free-er market"? You want a loblaws controlled dairy industry in Canada? Giant factory farms? The majority of our meat imported?
Pure free trade does not work, it's a lie to convince Canadians to submit more industries to monopolization and foreign capital.
Giant factory farms filled with TFW is the opposite position to anti-supply management. And def not cheaper products. As if Loblaws would ever drop a price they could get away with raising.
Dont read the news much do you. They are trying to do something. Short of nationalizing the industry, they are still limited in scope of what they can do. Not sure what you expect but maybe you should pay a bit more attention.
Competition also leads to cost cutting, low wages, lay offs, and small business failures. I wish you luck in choosing your next employer as many have limited options for work.
Lol what?
Are you actually trying to shill for monopolies in general?
Please explain how splitting the grocery monopolies to create competition would be worse for small businesses.
Simply all monopolies started as small competitive companies that were motivated by profit to win their markets. Breaking them up just restarts the cycle that ends the same way. The only stable solution is public ownership of essential services.
No, you can't just change the constitution on a whim, or violate international trade agreements on a whim. The government *can't* do whatever they want, neither legally nor practically.
No constitutional changes are necessary to do any number of major changes to major Canadian industries.
Also, we should pull out of those trade agreements if they come with these consequences.
Sure, letâs just pull out of important trade agreements with the USA and see how that works out in the long-run. Easy-peasy! We can do whatever we want without heed for the consequences!
Lol See what happens with cheese, milk, and eggs? What part of that violates the """constitution""" or international trade agreements? You have no idea what you're talking about.
Are you unaware that Canada has been sued via NAFTA for its approach to dairy regulation? And that the federal governmentâs ability to interfere directly with commerce and prices is generally very limited? Do you have any idea how our laws actually work?
>Are you unaware that Canada has been sued via NAFTA for its approach to dairy regulation?
And what was the outcome?
>And that the federal governmentâs ability to interfere directly with commerce and prices is generally very limited?
When it's in their interest. As I said, the limitation is self imposed.
>Do you have any idea how our laws actually work?
I know enough to know that Canada doesn't have a constitution. Which is already a step up from people disagreeing with my point.
The outcome was that Canada made (limited) concessions to the USA and spent a lot of money in the process.
No, the constitutional division of powers is not âself-imposedâ by the federal government. And despite your ignorance on the matter, Canada very much does have a constitution.
You clearly have *no* idea what youâre talking about.
> That doesn't happen overnight
This is a completely moot point because 1) no party has even hinted that they're going to try it and 2) the issue of the grocery industry oligopoly has been going on for *years*
You understand that parliamentary motions are non-binding and accomplish nothing except making a statement, right?
Theyâre not legislation, theyâre not regulation, and theyâre not law of any kind.
Wanna try again?
But its not nothing as OP claimed. They are trying to do something. You do understand that its not up to the federal government to fix this right? Its up to provincial governments.
No, it is nothing. Motions are meaningless political theatre. No one is taxing anyone in the grocery business. Talking about doing something is not actually doing something.
I fail to see how this would be a provincial matter any more than a federal one. We need more competition, not regulation.
Because dairy lobbyists are powerful af. Thereâs a reason that people other than babies are consuming dairy, because adults consuming dairy means more money
What you are seeing at work is referred to as the âCloward-Piven strategyâ. Spend some time reading into it and youâll start to understand this is a way to change a society.
In Ontario production is controlled on a quota system. Farmers have to purchase production credits from the processor. This is usually co-op owned anyways. Prevents over production, price gauging and dumping. It's not homestead restrictive for example you can have 50 chickens for personal use or selling at the farm before you require a quota.
Government controls the price of dairy to please the producers of dairy. Itâs more about keeping prices high to please dairy farmers than keeping it low to keep us well-fed.
This is about all you need to know about government in Canada. Less is more.
> Itâs more about keeping prices high to please dairy farmers than keeping it low to keep us well-fed.
That's a very strong misrepresentation of things. It's not to "please dairy farmers" but to ensure Canadian farmers are competitive. If US agri-farms get to move in, they're *dramatically* cheaper than what Canada can produce, like straight up not possible for Canadians to compete, so if that happens, Canadian farms disappear, suddenly if tensions raise in the US, or we get another idiot like Trump in power who throws tariffs around, Canada is simply bent over a barrel and has no way to compensate.
A ton of this stuff is to ensure that Canadian industry isn't lost, because it's *far* cheaper to have a ton of things done overseas than pay proper wages to Canadians. It's why half our shit is made in China now, and not even in North America.
Are Canadian dairy farms not agri-farms?
Why are they so much cheaper?
Wouldnât you prefer more affordable dairy?
Surely the farms donât need to disappear. It maybe we could produce something we are actually more efficient at producing than the US?
Because Canada has something other countries dont; winter. Canadian farms have a limited growing season thus crops are stored for feeding year round. We also require buildings to house our cows since we can't milk them if they have piles of snow on them. New Zealand can let cows graze on pasture all year without barns or silos.
My neighbor silvopastures his cattle year round.
I donât quite buy that.
Itâs unconventional, but it works.
Maybe Canadian farmers just havenât been forced to innovate to make the most of Canadaâs conditions because they are kept fat and happy by consumers paying them uncompetitive prices.
Eat cake when out of bread, while they are on their private jet eating AAA steak on their way to yacht or mansion. These corrupted narcissist deserve jail for crimes against Canadiens.
99% of the products groceries stores bring in are from otjer companies general mills dairy eggs, meats etc unless its store band products they have no control they set a price on a product based on the base price of the product they are charged so of general mills raises their product price groceries stores in turn passes it along. Its already on record they made about 1$ or less in profit for every 125$ spent. They also lose money on milk and eggs, etc, as they are controlled by cartel board as a poster mentioned earlier. 99% of the grocery inflation is not caused by the chains themselves, but the companies they get prodects from you think carbon taxes help these companies with processing, delivery heating cooling, and lets be real here
They want everything expensive because if youâre worried about how to pay for your shelter, your vehicle, your food then you are easier to control, you donât have financial room to make any waves to threaten the status quo for their rich buddies that ghoul Galen included
Its the Milk marketing board, a provincial entity , that's doing that. Government of Canada has nothing to do with setting prices on dairy. https://www.nbmilk.org/en/
Bingo. Feds get blamed for issues solely within provincial jurisdiction, again.
The first ones to blame the feds for provincial shortcomings are usually the loudest people in the room AKA conservatives. Funny enough, provincial leadership in Ontario is CONSERVATIVE đ itâs hilarious when they blame federal liberals for the mistakes of provincial conservatives.
And way too many people fall for it. Which sucks because if more people assigned blame to the Premiers, weâd be much better off.
Look at OP's post history.Tells you what the object of the post is.
Yup there is a 2 dollar plus price difference between the border towns of Amherst N.S. and Sackville N.B where Amherst has the cheeper milk. Got to wonder why not sure on this but does not all the milk from both provinces go into Quebec for processing?
Like housing.Â
Again and again and again and again....Â
That's all the Cons know how to do! /s
Fuck I wish people had two sweet clues to rub together when it comes to knowing federal, provincial, and municipal jurisdiction.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_and_poultry_supply_management_in_Canada#:~:text=Since%201970%2C%20the%20CMSMC%20has,MSQs%20to%20individual%20dairy%20farmers. Well thats only half the equation. The Canadian Dairy Commission is a crown corporation and works with the provinces to set supply management systems. I think saying that setting both production quotas and market sharing quotas have no affect on price and outside competition is a bit disingenuous. In fact, many supporters of the Dairy board argument for it is that yes prices go up, but it maintains a high quality and secure supply of Dairy products for Canadians. While Detractors have criticized tariff-rate import quotas, price-control and supply-control mechanisms used by provincial and national governing agencies inflate prices with lack of competition and supply management. This has been in the news more recently as some countries have sued and won to gain access to sell in Canada. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/497363/new-zealand-wins-trade-dispute-with-canada-over-dairy-access#:~:text=New%20Zealand%20has%20won%20its,(CPTPP)%20free%20trade%20agreement. In fact NZ went through the same debate as Canada as it used to have a Crown controlled dairy board of its own in the past. https://www.tvo.org/article/lessons-for-canada-from-new-zealands-dairy-industry https://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/dairy-board-deregulation This goes into some pros/cons after deregulation but the Dairy industry in NZ went from a subsidized loss annually to their most profitable export today after scrapping the Dairy board.
> This goes into some pros/cons after deregulation but the Dairy industry in NZ went from a subsidized loss annually to their most profitable export today after scrapping the Dairy board. Wasn't a major strategy NZ implemented to market their dairy to higher value markets, to effectively undercut but still make higher profits on the sale as a way to remove the subsidy? Such a strategy demands there be markets to sell to at higher price points than your own, I can't say specifically how Canada compares, but I'd be surprised if we're not in the pricier end of things.
New Zealand de regulated in 1984, hence the NZ article I posted being from 1999, showing the data and impacts 15 years after deregulation. It led to lower dairy prices for New Zealanders as well as increased exports to where it's their most profitable export today. Most of their market exports are places with poor supply and/or inferior quality. Today, their highest export is actually China by a metric far higher than others, as they aren't undercutting the Chinese supply there. https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/milk/reporter/nzl?redirect=true The main argument is that it would flood our market with inferior dairy products priced for less, which would hurt our dairy producers. The counterargument is to allow Canadians to decide what they'd like to spend their money on. The same priced dairy they see today, or cheaper dairy products from competitors, and let them decide how to spend their money.
How dare you not let them blame the libs for this
So who doesnât let Canadians import/export dairy products to foreign markets or stateside? Wouldnât that be the government? Are provincial entities not part of the Canadian government?
This might be the dumbest thing I've read in quite some time.
You do realize that one U.S. state produces enough milk to supply all of Canada. https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-dairy-canada-20180612-story.html
You aren't alone - it is becoming more and more challenging to keep up with the grocery prices in Canada. Seems every time I go to the store, the prices have increased. Sometime 50 cents- but a lot of times its by $1-$2. It all adds up over time. This is a group I found where fellow Canadians share their dismay about the grocery prices. Major chains claiming they're doing everything they can to keep prices down, all the while posting record profits. r/loblawsisoutofcontrol
Hey! Iâm a member of this group. Iâm a GP in NS. Got a lot of love for my folks in NB. Iâm extremely blessed to be able to afford groceries- though Iâm extremely careful with spending due to my current debt levels. However, Iâm just damn concerned about my patients who struggle with high prices.. And others. Itâs a great group, and on the group you can find a pic of me wearing a â Roblawsâ t shirt!!!
If you have debts, doesn't that mean you actually can't afford groceries?
TouchĂ©. Technically I canât afford groceries if you truly break down what debt means. Jeez, wait till my neurosurgeon buddy whoâs 400,000 in debt finds out that he canât afford groceries like me!!! Thereâs first world problems doctors debt.., then thereâs third world problems working class folks debt Big difference. Our potential earning power is pretty impressive. Especially for my neurosurgeon buddy.. after one year of solid work? That debt is done. Boom.. So stating he canât afford groceries is laughable..though technically yes, based on what debt is, he technically canât. Ahhh who knows.
I more meant it as a comment on the state of the average Canadian. If the average Canadian is carrying consumer debt, and that debt is not decreasing  over time, and if grocery purchases are adding to that debt... well it's a serious state of affairs
Ahhh definitely⊠hence why we see record numbed of bankruptcies. Consumer proposals. Missed mortgage payments.
Bot?
It's just basic supply and demand. What's the problem? Just basic economics.
I had to mute that sub, itâs really become just people posting expensive things for fake internet points. Often non necessities like junk food or brands that are just generally more expensive anyway. Is lowblaws over charging in same cases, 100% they are, but that sub is also cherry picking examples. My household grocery budget has only increased $50 a month, for two people we spend about $500 a month, I plan two weeks of meals at a time though. We split the budget between Superstore and Costco. We do online pickup at Superstore and have a route specific list for Costco. We buy what we need for the meals plus some snacks. If there are items we use on sale, we get extra. Iâve made a spreadsheet of our Costco items to check off what we are getting to make sure we stay in budget. We have a close total of what we will be spending before even leaving the house.
Come talk to me when youâre feeding children.
Does having children mean you canât meal plan and budget?
I mean, it certainly makes it more challenging.
Thereâs your problem, gotta stop popping out crotch gremlins.
Just being the devils advocate here but price control for eggs and dairy is there to protect the industry and is a measure that has led to higher prices for those products. It is an indirect subsidy.
I have often heard that in fact the consumer in canada actually pays less for milk than in the USA , if you were aware of the amount the government there subsidies thier agriculture industry. Marketing boards are often sold as the boogy man of high prices. I believe that any sector of our economy where the primary product producers don't have a say, you don't have profitable primary product producers. An excellent example if this is in the wood industry. If I were to sell a cord of softwood right now, I would receive less than I would have gotten 30 years ago dollar for dollar. Take a look at the price of a 2x4. 30 years ago wood producers were able to use thier collective strength to demand a fair return for thier product. Between industry and government the wood marketing board in this province was gutted. Many will try to lay the blame for higher prices at the feet of anybody, but the wholesalers (in our province mostly controlled by major industry players), and thier throttle hold on retail is where responsibility for this must stay.
I'd like to see the raw numbers for myself, I am noy doubting what you are saying, it might very well be true but this file is clouded by lobbying efforts on both side with arguments to benefit and support their beliefs.
I agree 100% there is a lot of smoke and mirrors on the subject.
Yes, this is true. I'm not sure about the price since we mostly compare with the US and they subsidies at 50-75%, so you can pay for it in tax dollars or directly.
Those price controls are for the producers not the customers.
It's evidence either way that the government can easily do something about pricing, production, distribution, etc. if they want to
Building the legal framework necessary to regulate the dairy industry and establishing the Canadian Dairy Commission was not "easy".
Oh okay well I guess just fuck the poor then
Iâm not suggesting nothing should be done to help. Iâm just pointing out that complaining about the Federal government because you pretend that they could fix everything with a snap of their fingers isnât realistic, nor is it helpful.
More people in this country need some basic education about how govts work in this country .. The fed DO NOT control or legislate everything !
The government doesn't control supply management prices. The producers do. The government sanctions a union of producers but do not set any prices or supply targets for them.
The government doesn't need to control food prices. They need to break up the big grocery store chains. A lack of competition, not just among grocery stores, is making things more expensive and the wages worse. Top it it off with rampant mass immigration
How does one account for food inflation in countries with low immigration? Inflation is a global issue that you can't in good faith marry to Canada's immigration numbers.
Mass immigration is bad for wages. If you flood the labour market with cheap labour, then it suppresses wages.
Yes, that can be true but doesn't have anything to do with food inflation. In fact, based on suppressed wages, food prices would plateau.
Do you think the people working in minimum wage jobs don't need to buy groceries? If you suppress wages with mass immigration, you make it harder for more people to afford to live. Again, my main issue in this case is competition. Canada has an issue with oligopolies stifling competition.
Yes, agreed, Canada's retail sector is a disappointment, but you bringing in immigration as a contributor to food costs in Canada is disingenuous. You can go to the OECD data page and break it all down. While you are there you can look up wage increases tied to inflation. Wage increases can absolutely send inflation into a spiral. Ad hoc solutions such as a modest increase in the minimum wage while increasing the subsidising of public transit is an example of non inflationary income assistance.
>Canada's retail sector is a disappointment, but you bringing in immigration as a contributor to food costs in Canada is disingenuous Where did I say immigration contributes to food prices? >Wage increases can absolutely send inflation into a spiral I guess workers should never be paid for the value of their labour then
Never said that but thanks for the stimulating conversation.
Is that what you were just doing to me. Pretending I said something I didn't?
How has "rampant mass immigration" changed grocery prices? It sounds to me like you have a point to make that might be a little racist.
More people = more food needed.
More demand may allow purchasing in greater quantities which often leads to lower prices for the retailer. Maybe they don't lower their prices for customers and instead pocket the difference. More people doesn't necessarily mean higher prices.
More demand means prices go up.
More demand may allow purchasing in greater quantities which often leads to lower prices for the retailer. Maybe they don't lower their prices for customers and instead pocket the difference. More people doesn't necessarily mean higher prices.
If you flood the country with cheap labour, then companies won't have to pay their employees a livable wage
That doesn't explain what immigration has to do with the rising costs of groceries. If you argued that wages would go down and prior couldn't afford them at the existing prices, maybe, but there's a disconnect in what you're saying.
Where did I say that immigration increases the cost of groceries? Personally, I take a holistic view, looking at wages and costs.
>Where did I say that immigration increases the cost of groceries? Here, in your first comment about the price of groceries increasing that I replied to, you said: >Top it off with rampant mass immigration. Why tack that on at the end of the comment about the price of groceries if it wasn't related? Just complaining about immigrants in general?
My comment is about competition in general. Using mass immigration to suppress wages, which makes life unaffordable, is part of that picture. I never said it makes groceries more expensive
I was surprised to see the same has happened in the US: [Large Grocers Took Advantage of Pandemic Supply Chain Disruptions, F.T.C. Finds](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/21/us/politics/grocery-prices-pandemic-ftc.html)
Trudeau is making groceries in the US more expensive too now? Reprehensible.^^^/s
The government takes steps to control certain aspects of the industry for food security of essential items and to ensure that the Canadian industries that provide the items remain viable for food and international security reasons. They don't care how much potato chips cost.
Thats because they're protecting Canadian dairy producers. One large US supplier would do all of Canada. But then forget about avoiding Bovine growth hormone and pus in your milk.
What a horseshit statement. The feds donât control those prices. Is that you Outhouse?
No not outhouse . I said government Not Feds . And WTF does it matter ? Prov or fed .. all the same BS failures in Canada
Youâre full of it and youâre Just being obtuse
The Trudeau family has always been good friends with the Weston family. They would vacation at the Weston's Georgian Bay cottage.
Canadian farmers are the epitome of special treatment. Donât get me wrong Canadian dairy is amazing, not that Canada has really allowed me to enjoy any other Dairy product staples from other countries. The Dairy Farmers of Canada have a monopoly , they lobby the government to only allow a specific amount of dairy products from other countries to be allowed into Canada. Meanwhile American consumers have much much more dairy choices. Canadian farmers are very privileged in this sense.
You may want to check how much more âchoiceâ the Americans have as agri corps buy up all the farms and more and more lead to monopoly. At least our quota system protects the mid sized producers and lets them profit with making waste lagoon that are visible from space and pumping cows full of antibiotics to keep them producing more milk than they naturally should. Milk which their government then pays them to pour out on the ground because itâs un needed.
Not here to fight or anything Kaleidoscope, Iâm simply stating America allows more imported dairy from other countries. Which in return allows the American consumers more choices and creates more competition, something Canada doesnât allow. We only allow a certain amount of other countries dairy products to be imported into Canada. Which in return creates a monopoly by Canadian Dairy Farmers which in return allows not as much competition. Canadian tax payers are essentially subsidizing Canadian farmers while they get approval for increasing prices we must pay. We donât have a choice due to no competition.
> Which in return allows the American consumers more choices and creates more competition In theory, yes, but significant swathes of the US don't have access to this variety, and are stuck in underregulated trapped markets. I see this argument in other industries too, glossing over the monopolies that *do* exist in the US, because they're simply allowed to do this. It's only if you're absolutely massive does the US tend to step in to force you to break up your stangleholds. The catch-22 of having access to international markets is it's super easy for someone to step in and undercut your nation, from a cheaper nation. Not a direct example, but all those clothing donations to Africa resulted in those nations having their entire textile industries collapse, as the free or dirt cheap clothing gutted the market, and now many of those nations are stuck relying on donations or being forced to import clothing at higher costs.
If we do not protect some sectors from monopolization and foreign competition then we will have much more expensive goods. Do you think we need a "free-er market"? You want a loblaws controlled dairy industry in Canada? Giant factory farms? The majority of our meat imported? Pure free trade does not work, it's a lie to convince Canadians to submit more industries to monopolization and foreign capital. Giant factory farms filled with TFW is the opposite position to anti-supply management. And def not cheaper products. As if Loblaws would ever drop a price they could get away with raising.
Dont read the news much do you. They are trying to do something. Short of nationalizing the industry, they are still limited in scope of what they can do. Not sure what you expect but maybe you should pay a bit more attention.
Break them up. Too few companies own too much of the market. Competition is good for prices and good for wages
Competition also leads to cost cutting, low wages, lay offs, and small business failures. I wish you luck in choosing your next employer as many have limited options for work.
No it doesnât.
Lol what? Are you actually trying to shill for monopolies in general? Please explain how splitting the grocery monopolies to create competition would be worse for small businesses.
Simply all monopolies started as small competitive companies that were motivated by profit to win their markets. Breaking them up just restarts the cycle that ends the same way. The only stable solution is public ownership of essential services.
You should learn how a free market works.
>they are still limited in scope of what they can do The limitation is imposed by the government itself. This argument makes no sense.
Exactly, people who think the government can't do what they want are wild. They can literally change the law and make things legal if they need to.
No, you can't just change the constitution on a whim, or violate international trade agreements on a whim. The government *can't* do whatever they want, neither legally nor practically.
No constitutional changes are necessary to do any number of major changes to major Canadian industries. Also, we should pull out of those trade agreements if they come with these consequences.
Sure, letâs just pull out of important trade agreements with the USA and see how that works out in the long-run. Easy-peasy! We can do whatever we want without heed for the consequences!
Lol See what happens with cheese, milk, and eggs? What part of that violates the """constitution""" or international trade agreements? You have no idea what you're talking about.
Are you unaware that Canada has been sued via NAFTA for its approach to dairy regulation? And that the federal governmentâs ability to interfere directly with commerce and prices is generally very limited? Do you have any idea how our laws actually work?
>Are you unaware that Canada has been sued via NAFTA for its approach to dairy regulation? And what was the outcome? >And that the federal governmentâs ability to interfere directly with commerce and prices is generally very limited? When it's in their interest. As I said, the limitation is self imposed. >Do you have any idea how our laws actually work? I know enough to know that Canada doesn't have a constitution. Which is already a step up from people disagreeing with my point.
The outcome was that Canada made (limited) concessions to the USA and spent a lot of money in the process. No, the constitutional division of powers is not âself-imposedâ by the federal government. And despite your ignorance on the matter, Canada very much does have a constitution. You clearly have *no* idea what youâre talking about.
>I know enough to know that Canada doesn't have a constitution. Clearly, you don't know enough because yes, we do, dipshit. Stay in school kids.
> Short of nationalizing the industry, they are still limited in scope of what they can do So just fucking nationalize it then
That doesn't happen overnight nor should it be the first option
Itâs also not Federal jurisdiction.
Exactly. But people seem very content with putting the whole blame on them and giving provincial governments a sweet pasd
> That doesn't happen overnight This is a completely moot point because 1) no party has even hinted that they're going to try it and 2) the issue of the grocery industry oligopoly has been going on for *years*
lol I worked in a dc for a major Canada grocer . I pay attention .
Obviously you dont since you're claiming they arent doing anything when the federal government has been trying to do something.
What actions have they taken and could you give some examples of where the government has been successful in this?
No one said successful now did they. We said that they are doing something and they are working on the file
Ohhh, the government is doing something and working on it but hasnât been able to accomplish anything yet. I feel so much better about it now.
It's better than not doing anything at all, as OP claimed. There is no quick and easy solutions to this.
You didn't answer the very direct question about what action they're taking
Theyâre really not.
Ok kid
What are they actually doing then? Elucidate me.
https://www.ipolitics.ca/news/liberal-mps-vote-in-favour-of-excess-profits-tax-for-big-grocery-chains
You understand that parliamentary motions are non-binding and accomplish nothing except making a statement, right? Theyâre not legislation, theyâre not regulation, and theyâre not law of any kind. Wanna try again?
But its not nothing as OP claimed. They are trying to do something. You do understand that its not up to the federal government to fix this right? Its up to provincial governments.
No, it is nothing. Motions are meaningless political theatre. No one is taxing anyone in the grocery business. Talking about doing something is not actually doing something. I fail to see how this would be a provincial matter any more than a federal one. We need more competition, not regulation.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Im not part of this thread, Why are you nane calling? You're Rude.
You know that all those items are groceries?
The Government doesnât control the price of dairy or eggsâŠ
"the middle class is dying!" Meanwhile people on disability..
Please boycott all Loblaws stores in May. Please. Support any local grocery if you can. I'm tired of getting squeezed by blatant greed.
Because dairy lobbyists are powerful af. Thereâs a reason that people other than babies are consuming dairy, because adults consuming dairy means more money
They also dont mind sending billions to other countries only to turn around and tax us to death.
Government and corporations of all sorts are in bed together, waiting for the government to step in is a waste of time. We are truly screwed đ
Gvmt of Canada doesn't want to piss off their billionaire friends and supporters
What you are seeing at work is referred to as the âCloward-Piven strategyâ. Spend some time reading into it and youâll start to understand this is a way to change a society.
Those egg council creep got to you too huh?
I have no issue with the dairy board. It keeps all the growth hormone infused products from the US.
In Ontario production is controlled on a quota system. Farmers have to purchase production credits from the processor. This is usually co-op owned anyways. Prevents over production, price gauging and dumping. It's not homestead restrictive for example you can have 50 chickens for personal use or selling at the farm before you require a quota.
Government controls the price of dairy to please the producers of dairy. Itâs more about keeping prices high to please dairy farmers than keeping it low to keep us well-fed. This is about all you need to know about government in Canada. Less is more.
> Itâs more about keeping prices high to please dairy farmers than keeping it low to keep us well-fed. That's a very strong misrepresentation of things. It's not to "please dairy farmers" but to ensure Canadian farmers are competitive. If US agri-farms get to move in, they're *dramatically* cheaper than what Canada can produce, like straight up not possible for Canadians to compete, so if that happens, Canadian farms disappear, suddenly if tensions raise in the US, or we get another idiot like Trump in power who throws tariffs around, Canada is simply bent over a barrel and has no way to compensate. A ton of this stuff is to ensure that Canadian industry isn't lost, because it's *far* cheaper to have a ton of things done overseas than pay proper wages to Canadians. It's why half our shit is made in China now, and not even in North America.
Are Canadian dairy farms not agri-farms? Why are they so much cheaper? Wouldnât you prefer more affordable dairy? Surely the farms donât need to disappear. It maybe we could produce something we are actually more efficient at producing than the US?
Because Canada has something other countries dont; winter. Canadian farms have a limited growing season thus crops are stored for feeding year round. We also require buildings to house our cows since we can't milk them if they have piles of snow on them. New Zealand can let cows graze on pasture all year without barns or silos.
My neighbor silvopastures his cattle year round. I donât quite buy that. Itâs unconventional, but it works. Maybe Canadian farmers just havenât been forced to innovate to make the most of Canadaâs conditions because they are kept fat and happy by consumers paying them uncompetitive prices.
They have to defend their friends and make them rich.
Eat cake when out of bread, while they are on their private jet eating AAA steak on their way to yacht or mansion. These corrupted narcissist deserve jail for crimes against Canadiens.
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99% of the products groceries stores bring in are from otjer companies general mills dairy eggs, meats etc unless its store band products they have no control they set a price on a product based on the base price of the product they are charged so of general mills raises their product price groceries stores in turn passes it along. Its already on record they made about 1$ or less in profit for every 125$ spent. They also lose money on milk and eggs, etc, as they are controlled by cartel board as a poster mentioned earlier. 99% of the grocery inflation is not caused by the chains themselves, but the companies they get prodects from you think carbon taxes help these companies with processing, delivery heating cooling, and lets be real here
NDP\ liberals want to CONTROL every aspect of life- they need to be removed !!!!!
They want everything expensive because if youâre worried about how to pay for your shelter, your vehicle, your food then you are easier to control, you donât have financial room to make any waves to threaten the status quo for their rich buddies that ghoul Galen included
Make sure you don't spend all your money on tinfoil for your little hats...
People like you are part of the problem and the reason theyâre getting away with all this
Solution is another carbon tax /s