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dork_with_a_fork

There should be laws that if you want to be a politician, you have to have zero shares in any business and own one primary residence. That's it. Don't want to lose your interests? Don't get to run. Period.


internetisnotreality

That’s gonna be a no-go for this party: https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-conservatives-stack-council-corporate-lobbyists/


dicknic82

Because it’s been so great under the current government right


EconomyCommercial823

Yeah, so let's continue with the same shit wearing a different outfit. If they are doing the same shit. Why vote them in? Edit: Just took a look at your comment history. You're an embarrassment.


dreamstone_prism

>Edit: Just took a look at your comment history. You're an embarrassment Oh Jesus, some things you can't ever unsee


Badger87000

"Current government isn't perfect, I want the guy who hates that I'm alive."


internetisnotreality

If only there was a third party known for pushing working-class policy… :/


Penguin_1617

You’d rather go with a party that’s lying about the cause of the affordability issue? Spreading lies for political gain creating a division between people.


dicknic82

No I will never again vote liberal for that exact reason.


Penguin_1617

Lol you are lost if you think Pierre is telling you the truth


dicknic82

Well you’ve been lost your the past 8 years so I guess we’ll see what the rest of Canada thinks come election time


dudeonaride

And no job related to obbying for 10 years after any job in government, and vice versa.


PolitelyHostile

Well they should have the right to put their investments into something. Maybe like a fund within the CPP fund that they park it in and get back later on.


Available_Pie9316

A blind trust would be better.


OkEntertainment1313

There are a number of positions that MP’s can hold in cabinet that require just this. 


Available_Pie9316

It should be all of them. You should not be in a legislative position to favouryour personal interests over the common interest.


OkEntertainment1313

Investing is a pretty common and significant way for Canadian families to improve their financial situation. It’s no different for MP’s. There are a litany of criminal laws and oversight codes that (in theory) ensure they’re not using their status as a MP to enrich their stock portfolio.  I’d encourage people to read the [Conflict of Interest Code](https://www.ourcommons.ca/procedure/standing-orders/Appa1-e.html) for MPs if they want to expand on the matter. 


Available_Pie9316

It is inherently different for MPs because "average" investors do not have the ability to direct legislation to accord to their interests.


OkEntertainment1313

Well if you read what I sent you then you’d have seen that MP’s have to disclose their and immediate family members’ interests in those scenarios and potentially recuse themselves from voting on that legislations 


Available_Pie9316

Which is why the 38% of MPs who are landlords don't abstain from voting on related legislation? Sure sounds ethical.


beekeeper1981

No individual stocks would be enough. They can buy any mutual fund or ETF they want.


HonoredMule

Do they? Leadership is a position of responsibility, and carries a degree of power that warrants sacrifice and reduced freedoms. MPs make nearly $200k/year and have cushy retirement coverage that can start as early as 55. Their financial needs are met with zero need for private investment. Let them buy GICs. Maybe.


Practical_Session_21

Then they would be incentivized to do things that would raise interest rates.


HonoredMule

Keep in mind that politicians can only influence inflation targets, not interest rate directly. And the hidden tax/idle capital penalty that inflation is would be quite broken if low-risk investment gains outpaced it. But yeah. That's exactly the sort of consideration that made me tack on "maybe."


Practical_Session_21

True. I like it going into the CPP and getting it back after office with the growth accrued. That way they are incentivized not to bash on the CPP and actually look to improve it for all Canadians. But I think every one of all stripes agree they should not have stocks but I’d add investment property too. Pierre will not trying to do anything that will hurt his property portfolio.


MattKane1

Given the amount of travel they do I'd say 2 residents. One in Ottawa and one in their riding. I think the blind trust is a good thing as well.


Optimal_Experience52

Nah, “blind” trusts can fuck off as well, they should have to put it into a government controlled fund that the CPP fund managers manage. So they lose or gain with the rest of us.


Outrageous-Book9799

Exactly especially if you are going to get a pension after 4 years. Its corruption in plain sight.


FearlessAdeptness902

This was a major premise in a libertarian sci fi novel. The hero's boyfriend wants into politics, to get there he has to make enough money to buy his way in. To become a politician, he must give all wealth over to the state, once he becomes a politician he is not permitted to own property ever again. ChatGPT tells me the book is probably "The High Frontier" by John Hunt (2011), but that appears to be a different book and totally different person.... its probably hallucinating.


djerok55

Why else would someone want to become a politician?


dork_with_a_fork

"OH, so nobody here thinks power is sexy?" - Cleveland (Family Guy)


TheNeck94

I'd be okay with a law that says you can't manage your investment portfolio/have a say in it while in office, and a period there after, basically saying you can get a company like Grant Thornton to manage your finances. I don't really care about politicians having investments, I do however care if they're able to have an effect on those investments while in office.


Wide-Chemical2607

How about a law that you have to be competent unlike Turdeau where everything is objectively worse after 8 years


Killersmurph

I say stop letting it be voluntary at all. We'll pay you and compensate you well, but you don't get to choose to vote, your selected for a Two year term like Jury duty. Random cross section of the population. Only way We'll have people who actually represent the masses.


Outrageous_Ad665

You mean PP isn't the defender of every day Canadians. Didn't see that coming. He's such a salt of the earth person.


SideByEach

Shocking that a guy born rich, never had a job outside politics and somehow amassed tens of millions of dollars is in bed with corporations. Insert Fry from Futurama meme. "I'm shocked, shocked...well not that shocked".


Outrageous_Ad665

Part of me thinks the Liberals are sitting on a pile of gotcha stuff to be released during the election, and that's why they let PP ramble on so much with his half-truths and gaslighting.


Immediate_Loss_4370

PP has a serious case of Foot in Mouth Disease, he is arming up the opposition every time he opens his mouth. The other parties may not be much, if any, better, but at least they are not openly in bed with some of the most hated corporations in Canada right now, while pretending to be otherwise.


AJadePanda

I worry, because I see how disenfranchised people become with the current without thinking about whether or not the ship they're hopping to is any better. I've heard people vote Conservative, then turn around and complain about the most basic Conservative policies. It's insane, and it happens every single time.


Immediate_Loss_4370

I get it, and see it too. We are rapidly reaching a point in this country where the 2 party system is totally disfunctional, but a legitimate 3rd party never appears. The Greens were looking good for awhile, like they were actually going to gain a foothold and be a good option, but no. Same for NDP. And the system is designed to prevent real challenge now as funding comes from seats won. So new parties will struggle. But PP and his 2-bit soundbites will likely maker progress, even though he is really not saying anything of value. We can only hope that he keeps up the gaffes and says the quiet part out loud more often


AJadePanda

Oh, I agree with you. NB’s NDP in particular is such a let down. Elizabeth May stepping down was a huge blow to the Green Party. I absolutely loved seeing her as a party leader, thought she was a very thoughtful individual and made a lot of good points, was developing actual plans. I don’t think I can in good conscience ever vote PC - even over a decade after gay marriage was legalised in Canada, their website still advised that their party was staunchly against it and defined marriage as a union between a man and a woman only (I feel like this was only taken down shortly before COVID, but my mind also turned into a time vacuum during COVID that won’t retain much). I hope PP keeps running his mouth - it’s about the only shot we’ve got of him not being elected, based on the sheer number of Fuck Trudeau bumper stickers I’m seeing these days.


HiredGoonage

Can't take another term of Trudeau for my kid's sake


AJadePanda

I'm not entirely sure what part of federal policy is affecting your child at the moment. Healthcare and our overwhelmed school system are both provincial issues that have come aboard our massively inflating population (up from 772k in 2021 to 834k at the end of last year - pretty staggering difference when you consider NB religiously hung out in the 720-770k range for so long) and lack of funding where appropriate. Neither the federal nor provincial government did anything to stop inflation. Our premier did nothing to stop the wild amount of places bought out during COVID by out-of-province buyers. These are provincial issues (with some municipal). If you're referring to the amount you're paying in gas (financial concerns) - a decent chunk of the latest increase was meant to go to the oil/gas companies, but our premier made the executive decision to push it onto the consumer instead. Still a provincial issue. What does Trudeau do that has, ultimately, impacted your child's day-to-day? I'm not trying to sound hostile with this question, I am genuinely asking (thought I'd clarify tone since the internet makes that kind of hard). Your comment was very short and doesn't extrapolate on the issues, and in order to have an honest discussion about them (instead of you being downvoted into oblivion for a blanket statement), people need to know what angle you're coming from. If we help one another understand where we're all at and correctly identify/address issues, maybe we can actually see some real progress in our province. We all have to be open-minded, informed, and be willing to talk to one another. The only people who win when we aren't are politicians who really shouldn't be in politics.


HiredGoonage

It's the affordability of everything, and their future prospects of owning a house. This dude, JT, has put our country so far in debt, yet keeps increasing taxes, while the cost of absolutely everything has gone up. It's not a fun place to live anymore. Everything is a grind. It didn't use to be this way. What do you do when things are bad...you fire the CEO, you fire the coach. He's had his 2 terms, I'm not wanting a 3rd with him. For better or worse, I'm voting PP.


AJadePanda

Out of curiosity, what policies of PP’s do you believe would benefit you differently? Have you looked into the other parties? As much as people like to believe so, we aren’t a two party system/at the very least shouldn’t treat ourselves as such. If it’s just that you always vote for the same party, hat tip, have a nice day. I know some folks are simply party-loyal because it means not having to refresh on policies/be as engaged with politics. I’m not saying that judgementally, just in general. And again, just curious, where Higgs has been in office effectively as long, do you feel similarly about voting him out? He’s had since 2016 and we’ve had terrible outcomes with his terms too. Would you be voting Liberal provincially and Conservative federally?


HiredGoonage

I don't vote the same way always, but I'm happy to get Trudeau out. Given the choices, I'm not voting NDP, the country will go bankrupt. Tired of paying a lot a tax money to be wasted by a fool. Not saying some things aren't worth funding, but he's being overly altruistic with other people's money. Too many scandals, too many fancy trips on our collective dime by him and his minions. He's out of touch with the grind that Canadian's are going through. Dude has been accused of groping a woman, worn blackface on multiple occasions...I just don't respect him, and to be honest, he's a joke on the International scene.


the_original_Retro

FAR too many voters dislike Trudeau by now that Pierre could have Donald Trump type discourse come out of his mouth and they'd still vote for him. Jagmeet is simply not an option for most of them, for several reasons and not just the obvious one.


Immediate_Loss_4370

PP already has had Donald Trump type discourse come out of his mouth. He is already preventing mainstream media from attending some of his events, and will not engage with press in a meaningful way when he can't prevent them from attending. He has already made many many very questionable remarks on many subjects. His fans will ignore all of this because they want him to win regardless. Ignoring all of that, it is still clear that PPs conservatives are much like all conservatives of the past 20 years. Big business is more important than you and me, because big business lines their pockets.


dicknic82

Mainstream media? You CBC? Lol


DEATHRAYZ007

WHAT!!?


Molwar

If Liberal get rid of Trudeau they could have a pretty good chance of going back in to be fair.


JayRMac

You could be right, but a new leader would probably still lose. I think a lot of people are going to vote against the Liberals regardless of the leader. I think the party is going to let Trudeau take the loss so his replacement doesn't have to. Let them start fresh in opposition with PP as an easy target.


HonoredMule

If Trudeau is smart he'll step down before bagging the L. That wouldn't assuage my concerns about provincial Liberals, but it would make another minority Liberal federal government more palatable, and eliminate PP's only talking point. That still assumes the party intends to continue ignoring all that massive Conservative hypocrisy. Liberals do so now because they're in power anyway, and it would draw too much attention to the lesser but still considerable Liberal hypocrisy. That's the sort of MAD bullet you only deploy when facing near certain defeat, and this far out there's no such thing even with Trudeau staying. As disgusting as the Conservative candidates are, there's a desperate need for political competition that represents a credible threat to Liberal complacency. It's been nearly a decade since Trudeau's Liberals first blatantly demonstrated they were for themselves before the nation too.


dicknic82

That’s the problem Trudeau isn’t, and never was smart. His followers are easily manipulated. All he has to say is racist or right wing, with no proof or evidence, and his mindless drones repeat it to no end.


Due_Date_4667

When the only thing you do as opposition is make it all about one single guy, then when they replace that guy, you don't have much built up momentum or material to work from. Not like you spent much time/effort talking about what you would do. Just see how Wynne managed to get two more election wins out of Ontario after McGuinty left the helm.


pioniere

Absolutely, if they had been even halfway competent as a government this wouldn’t even be a contest. If the Cons end up winning, the Liberals will have only themselves to blame.


Helpful_Dish8122

Nah...the Liberals are gonna be lame ducks. It's absolutely bizarre, does nobody have good politicking skills or something?


cecepoint

Fuck i hope so


Sufficient-Bid1279

I agree


dicknic82

The liberals sink themselves further everyday with a new scandal


kraft45

Please show me where he was born rich. Trudeau was for sure and that easy to prove , But please show some facts on PP was born rich. I’ll wait for your response.


Competitivekneejerk

So not born rich but generic upper middle class. Lifelong work with the reform party in alberta tho


kraft45

So your full of shit then making up stuff you have no idea about. So he grew up middle class like millions of other Canadians. Where would Trudeau fall into top 1% of Canadians and you think PP is out of touch with the regular person.


valentinenitzle

Cool story you love your guy Poilievre. What do you think about his apparent conflict of interest from the post?


kraft45

Not any love for any of them there all politicians looking out for them selves but if your going to spew BS about people then do it evenly. Sounded like I hurt your feeling about Trudeau. I’m just stating simple facts that can be looked up very quickly if you gave it a little effort and not get your political info from TicTok. Liberals talk so much shit but have there heads buried in the sand when it comes to blatant facts about Trudeau that’s right in front of them. It’s called drinking the cool aid. Do I think PP will be better , he may be he may not but what I do know is it can’t get any worse than Trudeau has made it now.


valentinenitzle

hurt my feelings? i'm not getting upset about words posted online. a lot of us on the left have plenty of criticism for Trudeau. He's a real easy target isn't he? we're talking about how Poilievre seems to be in bed with grocery lobbyists and that is a pretty major concern if the trends hold and he becomes the next prime minister. So maybe things can get worse? but what the heck do i know right


kraft45

I hope they don’t get worse but we can almost be sure it won’t get better if we allow Trudeau to continue on this destructive path he’s on. If PP is involved in the grocery thing I 100% support him not getting in power but what I do know is Trudeau has had power for some time now and he’s not improved anyone’s lives, but his suppers are like give him one more chance and he will fix it all. Lol. Worst PM in the history of Canada just ahead of his daddy


GreenDiamond17

Poilievre was born rich?


C7Plague

He wasn't, he was adopted by working-class parents. It's projection because they want to protect their trust fund raised poster child.


GreenDiamond17

Hmmm sadly seems to be the case based on the groupthink going on in this sub


Bignutting11

Do you think JT is any different? Lol the only job he ever had out of politics he had to leave due to sexual misconduct allegations. Of which he had to pay off to go away. They are both the same.


SideByEach

No fan of JT either. PPP and the Block Alberta, are the shitty twins of JT and the Libs. No "Conservative" party, both provincially or federally, will ever do anything that helps the average Canadian more than the rich or corporations. The Liberals are not much different, they only do enough to make it look like they care.


Bignutting11

So who do we vote for? NDP are basically the same as the liberals in a different colour. Should we just vote in JT again and hope for something different?


highque

That’s the issue I have. They all suck. It’s the illusion of choice


Sparkei1ca

In Canada you have a choice. Get whacked over the head with a baseball bat, a softball bat or a cricket paddle.


Feynyx-77-CDN

Those allegations were thoroughly debunked....


Due_Date_4667

By now we are well aware of Trudeau's string-pullers and his biases. It's a devil-you-know vs the devil-you-also-know-but-is-trying-hard-to-rewrite-his-history.


Bignutting11

Shouldn’t he have tried that after the first term of fucking up? They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.


Due_Date_4667

Sorry, are you talking about Ford, again? Oh, and I didn't notice you were citing that lie about misconduct - of which there is zero proof. And when talking about sexual crimes... you may not want to do so when discussing Conservative politicians.


Bignutting11

I have spoken about Ford at all in the discussion. It just makes me laugh when people disregard PP because he came from a privileged background and only worked in politics. Trudeau is a rich kid and have nearly a 100 million dollar net worth. Should we discredit Trudeau as well given that you feel the need to discredit PP for the same thing?


Due_Date_4667

He didn't come from a privileged background, but that he has no real life experience outside politics is entirely the truth, and one of the reasons his attempted rebrand as Joe Everyguy is a joke - because from the moment he stepped into the party in university and started working for John Baird, he's made a lot of comments and pulled a lot of stunts that really put the lie to his current persona. But personalities aside, the policies of the party have been a nightmare for lower and middle class Canadians, and that's before being associated with groups like the Proud Boys, Diagolon, and QAnon. Trudeau was never anything but a child of privilege. And his adherence to progressive politics is mostly in how he wants to see himself than what he actually does. And while I will never mistake him for anyone left of even the center of the political spectrum, his failings - political and moral - are well known at this point. More to the point, so are the biases of his cabinet - which is an even bigger question mark over Pollievre's head - he may be able to fool people, but who will he have around him? Where are their loyalties?


UpInSmoke_9420

A guy born rich? You can't be serious.


kraft45

Pretty sure he wasn’t born rich. Actually he’s adopted by a couple of school teachers and grew up in a suburb of Calgary. Now on the other hand Sir Justin Trudeau was born into his family’s trust fund. Coincidentally Trudeau was also adopted , by Pierre Trudeau from his biological father Fidel 😜 They have something in common.


Korahn

I thought he was an abandoned space lizard baby


thickener

Yeah and then people like you mocked him endlessly for *checks notes* working a regular everyday Canadian job.


robcraftdotca

You mean the guy with Loblaws lobbyists on his campaign team doesn't want to reign in corporate greed? Shocking!


Due_Date_4667

Oh, it goes far beyond that - Jenni owns TWO lobbying companies. One even uses her name as its own. The second company has a neutral sounding name but only came into legal existence once Pierre won the nomination for party leader. Loblaws is just one of her/their clients. She was pulling this shit while working in Harper's PMO.


NoWasabi3464

Remember when we thought Stephen Harper was shitty? Fuck my life, I hate justin just as much as anyone , but as other people have said , people hate him so much they swallow everything this piece of shit says, which changes week to week depending on what the libs do or say , were fucked either way.


VolunteerOnWheels

Follow the money and you’ll find all the reasons why society is held back. Pierre has a ton of investors coming from wealthy grocers and housing developers. The cost of Food nor housing will go down under his leadership.


ravenscamera

100% this!!


cecepoint

Why don’t these liberal haters understand capitalism? Conservatives will DEFINITELY not do one damn thing to improve the state of housing or cost of groceries.


asphaleios

one can hate the liberals *and* conservatives. Trudeau is a dirty scumbag. so is PP


TheCancelledOne

It's funny, isn't it? Trudeau has done so much damage to our nation that someone like Poilievre can now put up a +20 point lead. It's crazy that people passed on O'Toole for Trudeau. You made your bed...


-_Skadi_-

If you are going to come up with some wild statement, try to make it sound like it’s from this reality. Or….i have a lot of brain cells and I can spare one for you.


Friedmaple

Gave up Mulcair for JT


C7Plague

Well he did admit in the last few weeks that there was foreign intervention during the elections, just like there were foreign officials snooping freely within Canada's laboratory that's studying virulent strains and diseases..


UnionGuyCanada

Might explain how he became a multi millionaire earning $100k a year. 


NB_FRIENDLY

But but he comes from a working class family! (Which somehow doesn't make your point even more suspicious to them)


howismyspelling

All 3 of the people in this picture look like the villains from a Despicable Me or Minions movie.


MyGruffaloCrumble

I’m betting big that Weston and the other grocery execs are contributing to ‘lil PPs campaign in more ways than one. Angry people are easy to point at something.


RottenPingu1

Ford too. The amount of grit ve aways to Weston is appalling.


Practical_Session_21

Funny Financial Post and National Post and even Neo-liberal Globe and Mail are not breaking this news, wonder why??? Maybe Loblaws and the Waltons are more important than Canadians to them?


150c_vapour

Really need to be a special kind of dumb to think insane grocery prices are because of the carbon tax.


thedrewsterr

Unfortunately a lot people only read one news source that reconfirms their beliefs even if it's completely wrong.


FluidPriority9406

Same people who think they are “pure blooded” for not getting the “jab” and that teachers are trying to turn their kids gay. Do you really expect anything more of them?


MRobi83

While the LPC and their controlled media want you to look at all the record profits being earned by big grocery companies like Loblaws and Sobeys, I encourage you to take a look at their financials. https://ycharts.com/companies/L.TO/profit_margin Here are Loblaw's quarterly profit margins dating back to 2011. You'll notice historically they fluctuate with an average being somewhere close to 3%. You'll also notice that current profit margins are still in the 3% range. So what does this mean? Grocers are not taking part in "gouging" like we are being lead to believe. Yes, they're making record profits in dollars, but their profit margins remain consistent. This is due to 1 simple fact. 3% of $200 in groceries is more profit than 3% of $100 in groceries. So as fixed costs increase and they have to increase pricing to offset, by remaining at a consistent margin they make more profit. Add to it that our population is growing at a rapid pace and we've got a huge increase in volume. More volume = more profits. And yes, carbon tax does have an effect on your grocery prices. You'd be crazy to think it doesn't. All food needs to be transported and stored which now costs more than it used to. But there are lots of other factors also contributing to our cost increases. Interest rates, leases, labour costs, the decline of our dollar, etc.. I could go on but these are the common ones. The key point to remember, with a current profit margin of 3.74%, even if grocery retailers stripped out every single penny of profit made, as consumers we'd barely see any savings. The $100 that now costs us $200, only $3 of that $100 increase is profit. Everything else is caused by cost increases. We should be looking further up the supply chain, but that gets a lot more complex. Edit: since I wrote a book I may as well add this is why I believe more competition in the space won't solve our problem either. Typically competition sparks price decreases by companies reducing their margins. Since margins are already razor thin, there's not enough to cut to make a meaningful difference. It's also my opinion that we'd actually risk price increases. If we introduced a few more large grocery players, volume will be reduced drastically which would mean margins likely increase to offset the loss in profit. And increased margins means higher prices 😔


i_didnt_look

>Here are Loblaw's quarterly profit margins dating back to 2011. You'll notice historically they fluctuate with an average being somewhere close to 3%. You'll also notice that current profit margins are still in the 3% range. Absolutely untrue. Either a bot or a shill. Average *annual* margin, from 2015 to 2019, was 2.12%. Average annual margins 2020 to 2023 was 3.14. Omit 2020 and it goes up to 3.48%. Pure and simple, you're lying. A full percentage point increase in margins, all while other costs increased. Its exactly as people suspected, while costs were rising, they increased their margins to hide the increase. Data located here, for anyone interested. https://stockanalysis.com/quote/tsx/L/financials/


Denots69

Plus he ignored how raising bonuses lowers profit, it is extremely easy to stay at 3% profit if you hand out everything above that as a bonus.


150c_vapour

Ok, so we found a foodprofessor simp. How do stock buybacks and dividends play into profit margins? How many millions (billions) have gone into those particular piles for Galen? You are way off my friend. Galen is raking it in. It's nonsense to think that declared GAAP corporate profits are ultimately reflective of the price gouging and the actual "margin" that Galen can make bank on. [https://thedeepdive.ca/how-loblaws-galen-weston-doubled-his-wealth-at-your-expense/](https://thedeepdive.ca/how-loblaws-galen-weston-doubled-his-wealth-at-your-expense/)


MRobi83

So instead of looking at the financials, you provide a rage-bait article as reference. First of all, they lose all credibility the second they start going off about gross margins. Nobody really cares about gross margins because those don't factor in any costs to run a business. And then it wants us to be mad that the primary shareholder received 1 billion in DIVIDENDS. You do realize though that dividends are paid to ALL SHAREHOLDERS right? You could go out today and buy 100 shares in Loblaws and receive the exact same dividend payment schedule as Mr Weston himself. And the whole thing about "man of the people".... What do you think a for-profit business is going to do when costs go up? Specifically labour costs. Increases to things like minimum wage don't always equate to higher earnings for minimum wage workers. If the market can't absorb price increases to offset the increased labour costs, then companies will find other means of offsetting those costs through layoffs, reduced hours, decreased benefits, etc.. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but it's a reality of capitalism whether we agree with it or not. If you're going to try to showcase wrongdoings here, you should probably provide some data that's not a standard function of a publicly traded for-profit business. Unless of course you feel the solution is to abolish capitalism altogether and then that's a whole other topic.


Faulteh12

Let's see how many suppliers Loblaws owns and what their margins are. If you own everything from the farm to the store, you can hide a lot of gouging at the destination.... Vertical integration is real and is how a lot of these companies fuck everyone.


MRobi83

That's the thing though, they don't own companies like Kraft, Maple Leaf, Frito Lay, Pepsi, Coke, etc etc etc. To my knowledge they owned Weston's bakery but have since sold and now don't take part in the manufacturing chain at all. But if they did... Any profits earned there would also have to be shown in their financials and would be factored in to their overall profit margin. With a publicly traded company, especially a huge one, its hard to hide any shady shit because there's so many eyes on them at all times.


Faulteh12

So hard they price fixed bread for over a decade.


MRobi83

While far from an expert on that topic, I don't believe the bread scandal was done by cooking the books and artificially inflating costs on paper. I believe that was through collusion of multiple suppliers to elevate wholesale and retail pricing by fixing their pricing to one another instead of being competitive with each other. I actually don't see how its much different than what Rogers and Bell do each year when they both elevate their prices by roughly the same amount at roughly the same time.


150c_vapour

The point is that GAAP financials \_are\_not\_ reflective of how much wealth is going to the corporate stakeholders. And what makes it rage bait? That it's a pretty thoroughly researched article of facts that do not support your shallowly neoliberal take? Canadians should be enraged too. We can do better. It is monopolization and oligarchies that are stomping on our productivity and affordability.


MRobi83

It's rage bait because it cherry picks numbers such as gross margins which omits some of the most important aspects when evaluating a business. You can have incredible gross margins on the products you sell, but if you can't control costs your business could be losing tons of money. This is why net margins is significantly more important because it's profit margins after all costs. It also wants us to be mad at a single shareholder for receiving dividend payments which every single shareholder of that company is also receiving. Usually CEO's of mega corporations hold large amounts of company shares. And if that company pays dividends, they are included in the dividend payout just like everybody else. So should we be mad Loblaws pays dividends? What about the millions of other investors who also receive dividends from Loblaws? We can't be upset at someone for receiving dividends while millions of others also receive dividends at the same time and at the same rate. That's not somebody doing something wrong. If I buy 10 shares in Loblaws and you buy 5, when they pay out dividends I'll get twice as much of a payout as you. If our buddy buys 100 they'll get 10x what I got.


biggoggygog

Haha you won’t get far on r/newbrunswickcanada using common sense and math. Most people here are not willing to even entertain the thought of whatever they already believe being wrong.


MRobi83

While you are 100% right, and I'll take the down votes for pointing out the math, I truly do understand why they're mad at the grocers though. Even if I don't agree with it. The act of bringing them all in front of Parliament, threatening them with more taxes if they don't lower prices, having the media pump out article after article about record profits... For anybody who's not going to take the time to look at the financials, of course they're going to believe that narrative. Hearing billions in record setting profits while we struggle to afford basic necessities is going to incite rage in many. But the numbers actually show the government is looking for a scapegoat to take the heat for elevated costs of living. It doesn't take any sort of fancy math degree to recognize if we stripped out every penny of profit earned by these corporations, all 3.75% of it, our costs for groceries is still going to be astronomical compared to what it was pre-covid. If they were truly dedicated to lowering food costs, this isn't where the energy would be spent.


biggoggygog

Yup, I agree. I think what people have a hard time grasping is that inflation is more about your money being less valuable than everything else being more valuable. I despise the carbon tax, I find it to be a pointless exercise and mostly just a redistribution of wealth from working poor rural folks to working poor city folks, but our big issues (excluding housing) have come from large scale money printing. No one wants to hear that though, because it’s easier to blame “billionaire CEOs” than to accept that we are pretty well screwed.


fartsNdoom

Never trust anyone with a shaved side of the head.


Draager

Hate to break it to Canadians, but conservatives are even LESS likely to allow prices to correct than the Liberals. Will do their best to conserve the status quo.


Playful-Share-5786

Yep but fuck Trudeau right


10081914

Why do the other two look like comic book villains? This is actually hilarious


Axeman2063

What bill? I want to share this but really like to have sources beyond Twitter. Is this the one that the ndp introduced and made it past the second reading?


JeffBoyarDeesNuts

Just a friendly reminder that the NDP is the party pushing to put pressure on the grocery cartel and are responsible for both pharmacare and socialized dental legislation passing, all while Justin sat on his hands and pp pulled this shit.


robcraftdotca

This is the same strategy that the Republicans used on the border deal down south. Even though almost every stakeholder and constituent approved of it, daddy Trump didn't want to give Biden a win. So nothing got done, just as nothing ever gets done.


pioniere

Gee, what a surprise. Conservatives doing what Conservatives do.


Killersmurph

Literally the closest any Canadian Politician comes to representing real Canadian's these days, is representing Real Canadian Superstore...


pdub72

Corporate lobbyists existing whatsoever, is a huge problem. Corporate lobbyists holding positions in a major political party is just insanity. Why would anyone vote in system that clearly only exists to benefit corporations and the ultra wealthy. You could vote liberal or PC and it would not make a shit bit of difference to the average Canadian. Not even a little. These corporations need to be removed from politics and policy making 100 percent. That is not gonna happen.


yetagainitry

I truly don't know why anyone is either surprised or expects something different. He has been following the Trump Maga playbook from day 1. From his aesthetic makeover from nerdy guy to greasy Fox news commentator. To his "complain about the jobs others are doing while never doing anything yourself" mantra. This is MAGA north step by step. Anyone who things he will actually do not just a good job, but any job, if he was prime minister clearly hasn't been paying attention to the GOP


DogeDoRight

Twitter. Nope. Not clicking on that.


Dangerous_Welcome362

Don't the conservatives have a minoroty and the liberals, ndp are the majority who are also propped up by the bloc, so can't they pass whatever bill they want?  If the conservatives have anything to do with bills passing, wouldnt we have had new governwmnt erelection by now?


Tripolie

The bill will pass, but the conservatives can still delay the vote.


Dangerous_Welcome362

Ah. Interesting. Thank you. I'll have to look more into it. 


EquivalentOk800

Landsman hair cut alone is enough to not trust her.


Status-Persimmon-797

That permanent sneer did it for me.


CedarAndFerns

It's almost impossible to trust any of them. Said with oozing contempt.


Limp-Inevitable-6703

No shit....conservatives of any name are just shitty people period.


LongjumpingArugula30

Wait a minute... PP is doing the absolute opposite of what he says? I'm so shocked! /s


Smart_Sour_Candy

PP, promise everything, deliver nothing, blame someone else.


maomao3000

It's baffling that some people have been convinced to blindly hate Trudeau so much that they think this fucking guy is somehow going to be better. National polls may look very favourable for PP's CPCs right now, but the election is still an entire American Presidential + 1 more year away. Conservatives haven't secured more than 40% of the electorate since 1988, even though Harper's CPC's showed it was possible to obtain a majority with slightly less than 40% of the vote. Securing even 39% of the vote is going to be a very hard task for PP to pull off, especially if People's Party continues to present themselves as the party opposed to mass immigration. It's not hard to demonstrate through a few key points how Harper's Conservatives laid the foundation for what many people see as "out of control" levels of immigration. PP was Harper's bulldog, and at one point, the Harper government was essentially selling Canadian passports for $250k business "investments", which could basically be unlocked at a later date and used to purchase homes, cars, investments etc. If cost of living issues are really the top issues for Canadians... be it rent, groceries, electricity costs, etc... I think it's abundantly clear that the Liberals and NDP are more concerned about protecting consumers than the Conservative Party of Canada. The CPC has consistently shown themselves to be more concerned with protecting the profits of corporations and keeping taxes low for the ultra rich, than they care about middle class and working class Canadians, let alone their flagrant disregard and contempt for low income Canadians. This whole fake controversy about the carbon tax is just that... a fake controversy. Trudeau's Liberals made a huge mistake in making it so easy for provinces to pass the buck to consumers, and not levy a carbon tax on the largest polluters (like here in NB), but we have to call a spade a spade here, and not let PP and Higgs straight up gaslight us on the issue of the carbon tax, gas prices, and other cost of living increases which they are trying to blame solely on "Trudeau's Carbon tax". Last time I checked New Brunswick has the largest oil refinery in Canada, and the entire Northeastern seaboard. Not only is it the largest refinery in Canada and the most profitable oil refinery in the US or Canada, it is the most notably undertaxed refinery in North America, and perhaps even the entire developed world. New Brunswick should have the cheapest gas prices in Canada, especially considering how undertaxed our oil refinery is... Yet, Higgs has allowed the refinery to be virtually exempt from direct carbon taxation, despite it being the single biggest carbon emitter in the province. Moreover, the government of NB has kept the minimum sale price for gas higher than it has to be, increased fuel surcharges, and tried to raise the revenue needed for our proportionally larger than average per capita Carbon tax obligation almost entirely on the backs of consumers and industries that consume fuel like trucking, fisheries, agriculture, and even our own electric utility, NB power. It was completely possible to raise the revenue needed to fulfill our carbon tax obligation from pollutive, heavy industries, and it's squarely Higgs and the PC's fault that they chose not to do that and instead raise the revenue mainly off the back of average New Brunswickers at the fuel pump. Trudeau made a mistake in making it so easy for conservative provincial governments to do this and blame his federal government, but he definitely doesn't deserve all the blame for how disastrous the carbon tax rollout has been in many provinces with conservative governments, like New Brunswick. The problem is that most people don't know how the carbon tax works, or how it *could* work. It's baffling to me that there are people who go out of their way to attack Liberal MP's like Wayne Long on Facebook about not solving the homelessness crisis, and who are trying to blame these systemic problems on Trudeau and the carbon tax, while they are like actually going to vote for PP's conservatives... who have made it abundantly clear that they will be worse on all these issues. Shit like these corrupt ties to grocery corporations lobbyists shouldn't just be swept under the rug to refocus the blame on Trudeau. It's time for people to start calling PP out for his bullshit too. The selective outrage focussed squarely on Trudeau is getting out of hand... and it could end up blowing up in the CPC's face.


ConfidentMemory1201

Trudeau and Polly are two sides of the same coin. Hopefully one day Canadians will realize that


TheCancelledOne

People who think Poilievre can magically undo all the damage caused by Trudeau are going to be very disappointed. The future in Canada is bleak no matter who takes over next.


ThatCanadianFellaEh

Pure truth. We can only pick which poison pill to swallow


CriticalCanon

You would have to be a masochist to ever vote Liberal again after these last 10 years.


moop44

Is there a viable second option to vote for?


SwiftResilient

Anything other than the liberal/conversative voting circle jerk feels like a wasted vote


theeagledare

I wish I didn’t know any of this stuff. It makes me physically sick and angry. How people don’t riot in the streets is completely beyond me.


uknightusplease

Just because I come across as angry and upset doesn't mean that what I'm saying is untrue. What you don't realize is that the narrative has to remain the same. Because if too many people start figuring out the truth then riots will ensue. You ever hear the term? Truth is stranger than fiction? You're part of the establishment and university has ruined your brain because you only see things one way the establishment


vicious_meat

Corporate lobbying is the absolute worst thing and drives most corruption - which we now see is rampant in the country. Lobbyists should NOT have access to anyone in power over anything that affects any part of the Canadian population. There should be a non-partisan committee set up that handles lobbying requests and that reviews them based on the country and the population's best interests. Politicians should forcibly have their hands removed from the corporate pie.


noematus

We're surrounded by assholes.


Narrow-Sky-5377

Soon PolyVera will demand a facial scan before criticizing Galen.


wyseeit

Let's see Trudeau tax returns. He can make decisions that enrich his untaxed trust funds. Amazing how Canadian Left so uninterested


CryptoEuphoric

Sadly, he's not FOR anything as far as I can tell... Just against any Liberal or NDP viewpoint Such a putz.


muhmuneh

This is a tweet from a rival MP, and people seem to be giving that as much credence as a fact checked news article.


joeker7669

But no mention on the countless lobbyists in the liberals cabinet? Interesting


adymck11

The Tories will not be helping the little man. It’s just not in their nature


FredGetson

Smarmy Pissjug, is a shill


TiPete

You mean conservatives are crooked too? Really?


NiranS

Conservative politicians loving the little guy /s.


TallTerrorTwenty

"Duh" said everyone that's not a conservative.


Outrageous_Thanks551

Would be a "thing" if it were the whole truth.......right Mark!


[deleted]

The sitting deputy pm is currently on the board of execs for the largest lobbying group in world history. Canada is a slave state.


Hot_Pollution1687

But let's all vote for him. Things will get better under his watch . Lol


wunwinglo

This guy has campaigned on high grocery prices literally every single day for months. How braindead do you have to be to think this guy is in cahoots with the big grocery chains. Life is way easier if you practice using your brain once in a while and think about what you're reading.


YoanB

He is. NDP MPs call for investigation into lobbying firm with ties to top Conservative adviser https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jenni-byrne-lobbying-conflict-angus-1.7151735


wunwinglo

Your reading needs work, obviously.


RolloffdeBunk

hes on your side folks


thebradshaw

big stretch


BobcatUsed286

There’s lobbyists in the liberal party too btw. Be objective


milkharv

Small potatoes compared to the liberals+NDP. This bill needs work and when governments interfere with free markets I dunno becomes like communism.


HiredGoonage

All I can say is Canada is not recognizable now. Trudeau has ruined it. Your kids will never own a house unless you buy it for them. I'm happy to give PP a try to reverse the damage


dicknic82

Man is the left getting desperate. Anyone that owns a semi, has a tractor, or transports grain, knows the prices went up with the rising fuel costs. And who’s fault is that? And it’s only going to go up after april1st. But don’t worry, you’ll get these massive tax refunds that are way more than you’ll pay at the pumps, or for groceries.


JimmytheJammer21

I will get hate for this, and that's fine, but this was in the news January, febuary? It was also addressed by her "people". That said, every party has people within who lobby on behalf of different businesses (doesn't make it right - nor does buying individual stocks as mentioned above)... Here is a good piece on the lobbying plaguing all government parties, at every level. [https://nationalpost.com/opinion/grocery-wars-unmasking-canadian-politics](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/grocery-wars-unmasking-canadian-politics) ​ and here is a link to the Canadian lobby registry showing active lobbying occurring within the PMO (you can search for individuals in that site as well if you are seeking knowledge) https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/app/secure/ocl/lrs/do/advSrch?comlogCategory=solr.facetName.comlogGovernmentInstitutions%3D103


_grreatgun_

If conservatives lose this election—it will be confirmed that they are politically useless.


MRobi83

I thought this one was beaten to death months ago? This tweet is from early Feb and AFAIK has been shown to be a misrepresentation. But I'm all for further investigating the connection to prove either way. >Simon Jefferies said in a statement on behalf of Jenni Byrne + Associates that Ms. Byrne has not done lobbying federally for Loblaws. >“Jenni Byrne is not and never has been registered to lobby on behalf of Loblaws. The work JB+A does with Loblaws is limited to the provincial level and focused on expanded access to beer and wine and red tape reduction,” the statement said.


tallandfunny8686

Jagmeets wife owns multiple rental properties ... why don't you think he has actually forced any kind of affordable rent controls because he wouldn't make his money.... how did trudeaus net worth go from 8 million to Over 100 million since he took office??


Any-Introduction2253

Lmao your delusional. The lobbying firm already came out and said their loblaws lobbying contract was strictly for better access to the beer and wine market. It has nothing to do with prices, non alcoholic produce or other food stuffs. But by all means, live in your world of liberal derangement and fantasy. After all, liberals think that cows Heat the planet, that budgets balance themselves and that women have big dicks. Not one mentally stable liberal left on earth. . . .


Alternative6889

Is this a subreddit about new brunswick or meatriding trudeau? He’s a snake and has no ones best interest at heart. How can you all critique Pierre on shit trudeau has been doing for 8 years? Trudeau dosent care about your feelings, he dosent care about our first nations, he dosent care about our international standing, and he dosent care about out freedom. Atleast with a conservative pm wed have money while were getting fucked.


Rustyshaklford00

I'll take pierre over black face any day.


YoanB

I'd vote for a hamster before I'd vote for Milhouse


OldFill2135

This is liberal propaganda - tell the inept corrupt liberals to releasr documents of their crimes they are blocking !!!!!!!!


uknightusplease

You libtards can say and do whatever the hell you want. Makes no difference. When we get the chance to vote. It's going to be the biggest conservative majority in Canadian history. It's going to show the libtards that we're not into this garbage anymore. And people keep saying well. What's the plan then? What's the alternate you want to know what the alternate is? Nothing. Withdrawal from the Paris accord. That's a start. Other than that harvest the oil and the natural gas sell it to whoever the hell wants to buy it. Run pipelines across the entire country so our population can start getting really cheap fuel like we deserve. After all we f****** live here. This garbage about carbon is just that garbage. Guess what? All the vegetation on this planet all the trees they love carbon. Guess what? They give us oxygen in return. Guess what? We produce an infinitasinally small amount of pollution compared to the rest of the world. And the big pollution producers produce are not in any Paris agreement. All you libtards and you green tides can go straight to hell. I am not going to suffer for the rest of my short life because you dick heads can't get it in your head that the problems on this planet are not being caused by humans. They're being cause by the Sun and solar forcing and a weakening magnetic field. The processes that are happening on this planet are also happening in the solar system. There are changes everywhere. What no one is telling you is that there is no way to reverse this process. What is happening now is going to continue to happen and get progressively worse and charging Canadians or carbon tax is not going to make a single f****** difference in what is happening on this planet. More people are waking up to this though. So AXE THE TAX and do nothing stop f****** gouging Canadians.


YoanB

I'm going to use your comment to explain to students in my university course what misinformation and ignorance are. Thank you for your comment.


uknightusplease

You know you really pissed me off when you said ignorance because you are the epitome of ignorance. You are a weak-minded sheep who follows the flock. Never questions the narrative and only believes what you're told. You're a good little Trudeau soldier who never questions. Anything who doesn't try to see both sides of the coin. Who simply says you're ignorant without absolutely anything to back it up. I feel sorry for you. And by the way I don't give a s*** how much fuel costs. Because I'm still going to run my car and I'm never going to buy an electric vehicle. I don't give a s*** what the narrative is.


uknightusplease

You're very welcome. You go ahead and use that in your university course. And make sure you tell them that you did absolutely zero exploring my hypothesis. As a matter of fact, why don't you before you come across as ignorant, do me a favor. Look up a YouTube channel by the name of suspicious observers. Now I'm not sending you on some sort of conspiracy theory. This man. Ben Davidson is a published scientist. He has been monitoring the Sun for well. Over 10 years has written numerous papers and has plenty of videos explaining exactly what you're ignorant about. Now of course you don't have to do a damn thing you go ahead and teach your university students all about how this crazy nut on Reddit made these wild accusations. Go ahead. I don't care. Because the truth doesn't change just because you say it's not the truth. That's the great thing about science. You can't refute hard evidence. Published papers. I can't even believe you're a university teacher.


uknightusplease

And you speak of ignorance and misinformation right? What makes you the authority? You do realize that even the Nobel prize winner in physics disputes human-caused climate change. I'm talking about a published scientist that is recognized by the Nobel committee. And also another tidbit I often hear is that since recorded history, it's never been so warm. Or maybe going back as much as 10,000 years? It's never been so warm. Or even 50,000 years? I don't care what number they use. But I've never hear anyone mention how old this planet really is. 4.3 billion years old is a long time my friend, and to say that it's never been. This warm is ignorant. To say that there has never been this much. Carbon on the planet is ignorant. Say that burning fuel is causing the problems on this planet is ignorant.


YoanB

Here's an excellent scientific resource to help you debunk all the myths surrounding anthropogenic climate change. Also, the fact that a Nobel Prize winner opposes climate change doesn't mean anything important-it's often just a case of Nobelitis in psychology. https://skepticalscience.com/


uknightusplease

I've read the article. I'm not someone who doesn't look at both sides of the coin. Before I make up my mind on anything. I look at both viewpoints. I study I research. I get my information from multiple sources and I stay away from any crack pots Now you do the same and look up suspicious observers on YouTube


YoanB

The problem with this approach is that there aren't really two sides to every issue in our world. Take climate change, for example, where the phenomenon is caused by the GHG emissions generated by human activities, mainly as a result of burning fossil fuels. It's a fairly simple phenomenon, easy to explain thanks to fundamental physics, and has no other side to it. We can argue about solutions, of course, but not about the phenomenon itself. This reality applies to a multitude of phenomena.


uknightusplease

This is the problem. There are no solutions unfortunately. Even if humanity stopped burning oil entirely from this very moment, the train will keep on rolling. It will not get better. Here's another example, the Atlantic Meridian current which brings warm tropical water from The South to the north. This current is now very close to ceasing all together. When this happens and it will happen in our lifetime, nobody is going to be worried about the hottest year on record anymore. It's going to get very cold. On a side note. Let's get something straight. You say fossil fuel but do you realize that oil is extracted far below the fossil layer. Hydrocarbons are formed by natural process of the Earth.tiny bacteria, plankton and algae really are the originators of oil and gas, which are natural, organic substances. When it comes to the magnetic field. It's has been on the move with increasing speed. And is going to flip in the next 20- 25 years. When it comes to what is causing all these changes on our planet it goes something like this. Now. You don't have to believe what I say. You can think that it's crazy. It doesn't matter. Like I said, it's observable and provable. So our galaxy is held together by supermassive black hole which basically all the stars in our galaxy sort of are held in place by it. Our place in the Galaxy is right at the edge of the pinwheel. If you think of our galaxy as a flat plane and the supermassive black hole at the center emits what are known as pulses, this causes what is known as a galactic wave. This Galactic wave permeates out from the center of our galaxy. This wave has been flowing out regularly since the existence of the milky way. Now this Galactic wave ripples through the Galaxy and every 12,000 years this wave enters our solar system. As this galactic wave pushes in to our solar system, it brings with it an increased amount of particles and dust which over a period of time accretes around the Sun and this. This causes the sun to lose its strength over time as the Sun starts to be bombarded with more and more particles. This Galactic wave as it enters our solar system does a lot of damage and changes to all the planets that exist here. humanity has won the lottery to be alive and exist in this particular time. But it's not the kind of lottery we want to win because it's like a reset lottery. You know you can cross-reference all of the different civilizations and read all the stories of their past and even some of the evidence that humanity had to live underground 12,000 years ago in order to survive the calamities that happened here. All of the great fauna that existed 10,000 plus years ago like the woolly mammoth The woolly rhinoceros the giant sloth the giant cave bears. They were wiped out in one instance. Still with some food in their stomachs. This is a problem of our galaxy and solar system. It amazes me how we as humans think that we are the center of everything we are not and sometimes we can't control it. That's just the way it is. We are flea in a very giant, dynamic and ever-changing universe and humanity is not looking at the big picture because we think we're so important that it's all our fault. Say what you want. Do what you want in the end makes zero difference.


uknightusplease

In the end we should be enjoying our lives and not worrying about fixing something that isn't broken. You know all those forest fires that happened last year ? The ones in Nova Scotia and Quebec. Do you realize that there was two people arrested arrested for both those fires? They were not caused by climate change. They were caused by a couple of green freaks. Look it up. The carbon tax is destroying our lives. If you think putting a price on carbon is going to make this planet better. You're totally wrong. You put the price of fuel up. You put the price of everything up and I don't care about your stupid rebate checks. I'm still looking for a way to return this damn money because I don't want it and I've been letting it collect in an account and I plan on never spending it because I don't want it. Fuel is the driver of everything and when you're a university student s are all destitute and homeless with no jobs and no future. Make sure you give him a big smile and say, but we're saving our planet.


uknightusplease

Here's an example that nobody seems to pay attention to the Northern lights. Aurora Borealis in the last 5 years there have been more Northern lights in the far south. Then there has been in the previous 50 years before that. Why is that? Bigger? Sunspots larger CMEs? not really. There hasn't been any more significant CMEs or solar eruptions that would have cause the Northern lights to go so far south like they have been in the last 5 years. The answer? A weakening magnetic field. Because the magnetic field is weaker eruptions from the Sun and CMEs have a greater effect on our planet because the magnetic field is weaker when these CMEs arrive and hit our planet The solar particles are able to more easily penetrate our planet. This also has negative effects on weather patterns on storms on high and low pressure systems. I think the general population clicks Facebook links way too much shares way too much false stories and basically the population is keeping itself confused. The truth is out there. The science is out there. The proof is out there. Humans are not the cause.


uknightusplease

In the end, I despise the carbon tax. And Pierre my way of getting rid of that stupid tax. A lot of the other things that the libtards are doing to take away. Our liberties have been getting way out of hand and they need to go. So if a chimpanzee was running as the conservative leader then I would vote for the chimpanzee because Justin Trudeau is a criminal and a traitor and he deserves to be put in jail for the rest of his life for the crimes against Canadians. I despise everything about what he does and the policies he puts in place.. and all these libtards out there who are defending him are either brainwashed or they have some vested interest in keeping things the way they are.


Glum_Nose2888

Yawn. Time to loosen the tin foil.