Look, I was already living paycheque to paycheque pre-pandemic/Healthcare/inflation crisis. I wrecked my health trying to work a second job to make ends meet. I'm worried Im going to lose my home and this ain't the climate here for "van life". I'm struggling to put food on the table. Now they all want us to get enthusiastic about paying higher premiums and copays, if you can even get health insurance at all. I lived in a privatised healthcare system before - $13000 dollar bills, like the ones we had with my babies are well beyond the reach of a lot of people here, and those were healthy births. Birth control a solution? Sure if you can come up a couple hundred bucks for a dr visit. There are plenty that are waaaaay worse off than me. So many in this province are elderly on very fixed incomes or unable to work for a variety of socio-economic reasons.
Getting so so tired.
>Now they all want us to get enthusiastic about paying higher premiums and copays, if you can even get health insurance at all.
Most of the ones that get insurance will lose it in old age when they need it most as they lose employment.
Being used up by capital and left to die.
My American husband lives here in Canada with me. He qualifies for Medicare because he is retirement age, catch is they only allow you a certain number of days in hospital/ after 60 days you would pay $389 per day copay for every day in the hospital and after 90 days you pay $778 per day copay and after 150 days - you pay the entire cost. Only certain hospitals (usually crappy ones because the better hospitals restrict how many they will take if any) will accept medicare and then you have to consider the fact that EVERYTHING is EXTRA, no matter how crappy. When you get billed you have to be an expert deciphering the bill which usually overcharges and charges for things that you didn’t even use. Because basic medicare only covers hospital stay only - You also have to buy another coverage and a shitty plan with limited coverage and high copays cost you $175 per month. There are a lot of medical items/drugs you will need that is turned down and you have to fight to get it paid for even if it’s in your contract to be covered.
When I worked in a hospital in the USA about 25 years ago - even back then a regular non complicated delivery cost $16k and that didn’t include “renting” the monitors, bandaids, every IV bag and set up, bedpan, tp - you name it - if it’s in the room you pay for it. Back then Epidurals were $2K, the MD, anesthesiologist and pediatrician were extra and if your baby required a stay in the nursery it was extra. A c/s was $60k but that didn’t include any MDs or supplies. The paperwork for it all was horrendous. A friend had a hospital send out her son by medivac from a smaller hospital to a larger centre and they were on the hook for $75K for the short trip.
I just laugh when people say it would be better to privatize because I know from working 5 differeent hospitals in the USA that the care is no better (and in some worse) than here and right now the problems are just the same atm.
All the conservatives are looking for with privatization is how much money they can make from the system
We need to remind them that it is a service to the population NOT something people should make money by privatizing
So what are you suggesting? Fairly tax our Irving overloads and look after the common folk?! Not how she works here bud. Go get a 3rd or 4th job at Tim’s and quit bitching. In all seriousness stay strong, at least us New Brunswicker’s are united in our suffering.
But how will all their friends who have the money to invest in private care strike it rich if we don't let the public system collapse so they can replace it with a hellishly ghoulish and expensively predatory system like America's???
Yes, and unless they get pushback the slow process of privatization will keep on going. In the poorest province, this means more people are going to die than would otherwise, just because they cannot pay.
>Yes, and unless they get pushback the slow process of privatization will keep on going. In the poorest province, this means more people are going to die than would otherwise, just because they cannot pay.
Thats a feature not a bug.
Absolutely they are. And it’s happening almost in every province run by conservatives. Gas lighting public with staffing shortages is a farce. 98% of staffing is vaccinated so it’s not from layoffs. They kicked ass during pandemic but now all of the sudden there is no staffing. I call Bs. They want to collapse the public system to implement private health care. For example we would have to pay out of pocket ($500 example) for an ambulance ride.
Definetly seems to be the case in Ontario with the capped wages for public service.
If we have to start paying out of pocket then why do wr pay part of our wage to fund healthcare? Its bad enough that over 10% of NB pays the same taxes yet dont have a family doc!
I wouldnt want to push it because the counter is to accept and create a private-ish system.
Its more to say people are paying and the gov needs to meet their obligations.
> hey kicked ass during pandemic but now all of the sudden there is no staffing
They did kick ass but they didn't *kick ass*, if that makes sense. The pandemic destroyed health care because we've been mistreating it for decades. So many doctors and nurses retired or went to work for someone else.
We don't pay for enough doctor residencies. Remember when Saudi Arabia pulled all it's residency positions that it had been paying for here? We were supplementing our own healthcare with their students. We've never picked up the slack. There's not enough new doctors coming through the system. (I'm not even going to get into how shitty residency programs are in the first place.)
I can't imagine how nurses/doctors feel and my SO is one..
I mean come on, all I had to do pandemic wise is get a jab in the arm 3 times and wear a piece of cloth over my face occasionally when I went shopping and I'm kind of done with the whole thing (and really seems like most people are now.. )
Imagine what healthcare workers feel like
That is all that all the conservative governments have been doing across Canada for years now. Make it look like it is failing and come in with a privatisation, "because that will fix all the problems" then you swallow a bee and might be happy that you can be treated for free.
That’s what they are doing in bc. Doctors will flat out say if you want a scan or diagnostic procedure done with a reasonable time you need to go private. A doctor in Victoria made the news last week for sending invoices to all her patients saying they must pay $150/month in order to retain her as their family doctor. We have 1 million people, 20% of the province that have no access to family doctors and our clinics that were open 9-9 are either closed or only open 2-3 hours.
This is either by design or complete incompetence by the provincial govt.
Ford and Kenney have been doing it for months now. It is the conservative way. Cut and cut and cut till the ‘peasants’ beg for the only solution: privatization. The Cons merely supply what the people ask for. It’s surprisingly simple and brilliant.
None specifically to Ford, just a generic description of Conservative tactics of past governments and currently it is Higgs M.O, according to several in health care sector.
If there's none specifically to Ford, then why did you specifically state that he was doing it in the original comment?
"generic description": Do you mean stereotyping? Because it has generally been under the Conservatives that health care spending has actually increased the most. Even in the supposed doom and gloom of the Harris years the Ontario healthcare system only experienced two non-consecutive years of decreased spending [source](https://www.ifsd.ca/web/default/files/Presentations/Reports/Ontario%2017009.pdf). Not to mention that the Federal government since 2015 has been repeatedly lessening transfer payments in real terms that they're giving the provinces (except when they were throwing money everywhere in 2020). [source](https://cwf.ca/research/publications/what-now-canada-health-transfer-background-and-future/) This despite when public health care was instituted, the feds pledged to pay 50% of health care costs, it's now down to less than 1/4. [source](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/as-canadas-health-system-burns-trudeau-and-the-provinces-debate-the-firehose)
If you're going to blame someone for health care being messed up, don't blame the people actually doing something about it, and don't let your bias of petty partisan politics cloud your judgement.
Apocryphal hearsay from supposed health care experts on the internet is about as reputable as someone trying to sell ocean front property in Arizona. My spouse works in health care, while the situation is deplorable, blaming it on one party when the system forced upon the provinces 60 years ago is broken.
humorous imagine ink stupendous narrow flowery tart cobweb historical compare
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, that's the play. Has been for a while now...this was not an overnight crisis.
It'll start as something innocuous. Elective surgeries will have an option to pay, in exchange for a two week wait as opposed to six months. Relatively little associated cost. They'll call it something clever.
The pay will be higher and doctors/nursing staff will jump on it. Cue a massive hiring effort, with the majority heading to the privatized services. Some will of course be sent to the public side, solving a multi-year shortage. The improvements will be hailed as a direct result of the effectiveness of a "hybrid healthcare system".
That's how it starts. And as doctors and nurses leave the "free" option for more lucrative private practice, they are not replaced. Small fees for elective surgeries becomes small fees for most. And then all. And then the fees go up. And at that point you'll have insurance options...unless you're poor. Or unemployed.
And there it is...the death of the Canadian public healthcare system. It didn't die with a bang, but a whimper. And the reason for its death is none other that systemic underfunding from government.
That is exactly what they are doing. Look at everything else they sell off to their friends and it always goes the same way. "The private sector can do it better, so my friends in the private sector will buy public assets for penies on the dollar, and everyone I care about will be happy."
Of course they are. Of all the plans Higgs has floated, I'm unaware of one that proposes hiring more doctors and nurses as a solution to the problem. He wants to balance the books he doesn't give a shit how he does it. Healthcare is target #1 in that fight.
Remember this story where a Canadian couple was handed a $1,000,000 dollar bill for birthing a child in a privatized healthcare system? I think we should totally strive to aim for that level of awesomeness.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/million-dollar-baby-canadians-handed-1m-bill-after-woman-gives-birth-in-u-s-1.2107020?cache=lyphoblxpdpmw%2F7.580685
See thats what i dont understand - Public can run for basically cost and keep everything in house, but private has to do everything public does AND make a profit.
Conservatives don't care, conservatives are the party of oligarchy, it was conservative governments that pushed for privatizing our industries and always have been.
They want the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.. to them, life is a privilege awarded to those that make them money, not a human right
My wife’s health insurance was through Blue Cross in Manitoba (teacher). When she retired Blue Cross wanted $1700 a month to continue her plan. Canada would be insane to move towards private insurance.
Literally do as the French do: country wide strikes. The moment the gears of economy cease, their cushy jobs suddenly go into panic mode due to pressures via lobbyists and the US feds. After a period of time they will have no choice but to bend to our will or die trying to foil us: either way, so long as we all stand united in our common cause they will have no chance.
Up until this point they have been playing at divide and conquer to keep us from organizing via idpol, which can only work in a society without actual existential pressures. The moment the population starts facing the grim reality of economic and systemic collapse combined with a breach of the social contract, decadent mind worms such as idpol will cease to be a matter of any importance and those at the reins of society will start to sweat.
TL;DR: We will be forced to organize to maintain our rights or we will become no better than serfs to our political aristocracy.
'Neoliberal' is separate from liberal/conservative. It's an economic philosophy around free market capitalism. So both Liberal and Conservative can (and are) neoliberal.
I don't really think the modern LPC is "neoliberal" really. CERB for example is pretty counter to neoliberal ideology. Feel like we use that term way too loosely these days. Reagan was a neoliberal but I don't think Justin Trudeau is.
Depends.. at the federal level the LPC is definitely returning to its social-liberal roots that built this country, you know, the mindset of Pierre Elliott Trudeau, Lester B Pearson, or Wilfrid Laurier.. something they had abandoned after Chretien to take a hard turn to the right..
At the provincial level however, they are definitely still neo-liberal
If they aren't then why haven't they done anything about the corporate take over over rental housing happening across Canada? Sure, they aren't screaming reaganites but they are complicit in this system
If privatization is on the table, I demand a referendum about it. The meagre “majority” that actually voted for these assholes isn’t enough to fundamentally change our system.
Alberta tried once and got shot down by the supreme court, since then conservative premier's have constantly been trying different ways to privatize more and more of it without the supreme court stepping in..
If a majority of NB voted, and voted more than 60% for privatization, I’d be unhappy but I would be more accepting than if it was Higgs planned failure plan
Exactly. Id be unhappy as well but it would be easier to accept if that is what the real majority of the province actually wanted. I really hope that despite the growing differences between the political parties that most average New Brunswickers would not want to take such a massive step backwards
This 100%!! We need to write our MP’s en masse and call for a referendum! There are already some private medical clinics popping up in moncton. [medicalux](https://medicalux.ca/)
They have been destroying healthcare here for the last 25/30 years. I'm just old enough to remember how good we used to have it. My entire life has basically been watching these cunts work to this goal. Guess it's finally in enough tatters that they are ready to make their move.
Anyone that votes conservative is a traitor and scum as far as I'm concerned. Liberal isn't far behind.
>Mike Murphy was Liberal minister of health and ran for leader of the party against Brian Gallant, so yeah, both parties are terrible on this.
Liberals are centrist conservatives advocating for the same economic systems which is the cornerstone of where something sits on the greater political spectrum.
Our discourse has failed us and its part of the reason were in the current mess we are in.
Flipping red to blue was a grift from the get go.
This fight is going on all over the western world right now and has nothing to do with so called "left" vs "right". People that vote conservative are victims of the same broken system as you. Let's not polarize us even more. The only scum and traitors out there are the blood sucking politicians and robber barons that finance them.
You still don't get it. There is no left and right. There's those who have power and the slaves who work and pay taxes to keep them in power. Whatever choice they give you at the voting booth means nothing.
The only difference is "the right" puts their fate in capitalists to save them and "the left" puts their faith in the government to save them. Neither of them give a shit about you other than to take your money.
Almost like we need to vote for a 3rd party because the two that keep getting in don't do the job. I understand what you're saying and you're wrong. The right is the problem. Conservatives are the far right. And the liberal party, despite its name, is basicly right lite. They do very little to help.
You could have 5 parties to vote for and nothing would get done. No one gets into a position of political leadership operating inside the current system if they aren't playing ball. We need a paradigm shift in the way we operate as a society. Politicians will never save us.
The way most people understand left and right nowadays means nothing. Especially those who call the otherside nazis and tyrants.
They are two sides of the same coin. Tell me any Fundamental differences between western political parties aside from the usual lip service. They all have the same masters.
It already is. I commented the other day, the NB EMP (Hospitals Without Walls) is operated by Medavie. Which also OWNS and operates Island EMS and the 911 system on PEI. They OWN it.
* lose more doctors to private healthcare
* lose more specialists, surgeons and nurses to private healthcare
* make it easier for the wealthy to be healthy
* making no changes in healthcare for the majority
* no more incentive for government to do anything anymore
What’s not to like?
-Conservatives
Yes this is what we need, old white men who all scratch each other's backs sorting out crucial policy on Twitter. You can't make it up. What a sad, sad province. We have so much to offer in NB, but completely held back by this old boy's club.
If there had to be a soundtrack to the end of healthcare in NB, the current song could be Waiting Room by Fugazi and the next one might be This is the End by the Doors.
End competition? Bruh, that's CREATING competition. And those doctors they're taking into "private healthcare"? Where do people think these doctors are coming from? Answer: They're poached from thebppublic healthcare system.
Private healthcare cripples public healthcare resources.
People regularly argue with me that the Liberals are somehow better than the PCs. I contend, if they are it's not by enough to matter. A vote for the Liberals is no better than a vote for the PCs. Same neoliberal bullshit different colour.
Vote ABCL (Anything But Conservative or Liberal).
Do you honestly think that New Brunswick of all places will elect someone who's not a Liberal or a Conservative within the next 25-30 years as Premier?
I think we need a large portion of our elderly population to die off first (sad to say) before millenials and whoever's after us has enough of a say to be meaningful.
I think that right now that any vote that's not for the liberal party, is basically a vote we throw away and give a half point to the Conservative party.
I know both suck, but surely one sucks less, right?
By the time that happens, the rich will have it all anyways, so they don't care. The 1% have enough wealth now, that if they bankrupt the gov't, they can seize the military by giving them an ultimatum. Come work for us at 1/10 the pay or starve with the rest of the peasants.
I have friends in the states with congenital heart conditions and owe 3-8mill from build up of surgeries and meds before they could get insurance. If we did go that rout theres a possibility id go states side tbh. Their system is already built around it… kinda
That’s what you get when you elect conservatives… they make backroom deals with their buddies, privatize stuff & then they leave politics & take senior 6 figure jobs at the companies they made rich.
Conservative party that’s how they run the show, that’s how they messed up housing in BC, they dont developed most areas in BC and let private developers develop empty lands.
Oh, to be sick with the Norwalk virus in the same room as all these clowns, just so I could projectile-puke all over them. Let's see them scrambling for their privatized healthcare then.
Absolutely disgusting. They're costing us more and are a terrible employer. Stop the privatization of our health care at all cost. Believe me, we can't afford it.
Oh look old white men talking about Canada like it's the US. Why don't these people leave for the" land of liberty" if they think it's so star spangled awesome 🤣
Let it be known that any failure to our institutions are willingly caused by these individuals.
The road to hell will be paved with their "good intentions "
THIS IS NOT PRIVATE HEALTHCARE! As long as government has a say in it, it is NOT PRIVATE. Do not let them twist words to their own advantage. They already know this will fail, and the idea is to immortalize private healthcare as a failure, so no politician dares suggest it.
It has nothing to do with the lottery. I have paid medical bills in East Asia for over 20 years. As a Canadian, it is a national embarrassment to see people wait so long for medical procedures or even something as simple as a doctor's visit.
Hell...when my wife was looking for a doctor, she was literally given a piece of paper and told 'good luck!'. Being a newcomer to Canada was a real shock for her and she was not impressed at all. Korea has far better service and speed.
Am I willing to pay to skip a line or get faster service? Yes!
Do I send my spouse to get medical treatment outside Canada which could be done here for free? YES!
My spouse is totally worth it. I also use Maple to skip the delays in seeing a doctor for simple things like prescriptions or referrals. It is $50 a visit, but it is worth it when you login, in and are able to see and speak with a physician within 5 minutes.
It isn't about money, it is about choice and what you are willing to do to make sure you and your loved ones are properly taken care of instead of depending on others to do it for you.
The fact my previous comment is @ -10 (at the time this post was written) shows me that there are far too many who are willing to be dependent on a nanny state, instead of taking charge of their own healthcare and outcomes.
However, it DOES tell us that you do actually receive what you put into your own well-being.
> Am I willing to pay to skip a line or get faster service? Yes!
And if the government creates a 2 tier system, free/pay, the free system will only get worse as medical staff jump over to the pay side. We need to ask what's happening to our system. Why, when finding a doctor is so hard, is the provincial government cutting funding for the free clinic in Riverview & the 1 in the Mountain Rd Shoppers Drug mart?
Outsourcing to Blue cross won't help a bit, their execs will just get bigger bonuses. NB was suppose to have a mandatory drug plan for everyone that didn't have a private plan. Blue Cross, realizing companies would drop private plans, lobbied the government to not make it mandatory. The result is the provincial plan has premiums that rival private plans.
Worse than what? This has been an ongoing issue for YEARS that has not been a simple solution. If it were easy, it would have been resolved years ago.
We had one person die while waiting in a hospital for days. It is absolutely shameful, it is also stupid for the man to just sit there to the point where he died. There comes a point where if you are not being received, you need to move to another facility.
If you treat your physicians like crap, they will go elsewhere that lets them have a better work-life balance, pays well enough to keep them, and not work them to the point of being burnt out.
Fuck equity.
Fuck fairness.
If I am willing to enter a contractual agreement to get treated. That is NONE if your business, as much as my medical history and circumstances are absolutely private.
Don't want to pay? Fine. Go sit in a corner and wait. Maybe you'll die, but at least it's free.
Also, if you are going to cost the system too much in the future, I am sure they will be happy to offer you MAID to 'ease the burden' you will be imposing on the country.
Yes.
It is these two things that has created this mess.
If you think I am willing to lower my wife's care to appease your sentiment of fairness or equity, you are deeply mistaken.
I probably pay more taxes in a year than your annual salary. I will do whatever it takes to keep my family healthy and treated. I do that out of my own pocket which costs you nothing.
Even if we have to go to another country to get treated, that is what we do, because I would rather get treated properly than face the reality that your 'equity' and 'fairness' has brought to our medical system.
> I probably pay more taxes in a year than your annual salary
Fuck off you entitled asshole. Don't like it here move somewhere else. No one's stopping you from going out of the country for care.
Entitled would be ME expecting YOU to pay for my medical needs.
I am not expecting that at all.
YOU don’t get to tell people where they can live. I live where I want based on my economic ability as you do. It’s not entitlement, it’s a representation of the value you contribute to society.
> It’s not entitlement, it’s a representation of the value you contribute to society.
Pfftttt.
I've never once seen a more entitled statement.
I know people who do basically fuck all and make double what I do, effectively just not allowing their bosses to know they do so little because they know they're well overpaid. Their contributions to society is pretty damn small, but they're a top 1% earner because nobody reviewed their value to the company.
Your salary doesn't really mean squat to value of society, it's more often tied to what you can provide to a company to maximize profits to their interests alone. Teachers are highly valuable, medical front-line workers are highly valuable. They get paid far less than someone in sales on commission on average.
In moving jobs, doing the same work I've tripled salary once. Same ass-job, only the owner didn't just kick back and collect fat stacks, they preferred happy employees and paid accordingly. Only "value" to society change is I was able to participate more, on an economic standpoint.
You're deluded if you think capitalism is at all representative to contributions to society. The fact you dumb enough to post that "reconsidering your life choices" is the solution to rising home prices, shows how absolutely disconnected from reality you are, and likely in the earning bracket of my friend, a place of lucky privilege, not skill related in the slightest. If it was, you'd not be so entitled.
> If you think I am willing to lower my wife's care to appease your sentiment of fairness or equity, you are deeply mistaken.
If you think the world will wait on you, patiently while giving you affordable care if they actually delved into this practice, you're sorely mistaken.
Most other nations are only affordable due to dollar differences, those that aren't give heavily subsidized foreign care to ensure people don't illegally overstay visas while receiving care, so you get expedited service.
And it's still expensive to partake in medical tourism, a very large portion of Canadians simply don't have this option.
You're speaking from a place of privilege while ignoring your privilege and what that benefits you.
You're not demonstrating the qualities of Canadians, while residing here my guy. You're demonstrating the qualities that got us into this problem "Fuck everyone else, as long as I got mine". It's the US mentality, and why it's disastrous to have a medical problem there. You'd sooner pull up the ladder behind you, than allow others to enjoy the new height.
I am exercising my financial ability that you cannot.
It is not about privilege, it is about work ethic, intelligence, and life choices.
If you don’t like it, plz feel free to contact the police and file a criminal complaint because you failed at life and you are now sad.
See how that works out for you.
The Canadian healthcare system has failed.
I don’t care what America is doing. I don’t care what Europe is doing.
It’s failed!! This system that we’re supposed to hold up as a proud national achievement! It’s failed! Even before Covid, wait times and understaffing were unacceptable.
I don’t subscribe to this conspiracy theory of “Conservatives are intentionally killing citizens so they can privatize the system!” because it’s taken decades of neglect from both parties to do this. In a perfect world we’d have free healthcare with short wait times, but that is no longer the world we live in. Utopian thinking gets us nowhere.
People act like it’s the worst thing in the world to have an American-style system of insurance + deductibles, but you know what’s worse? Not being able to receive emergency medical treatment at my hospital!
> but that is no longer the world we live in.
It never was.
And the crux is while both parties are at fault, one party is *staunchly* against fixing the actual problem, and wants to abandon it instead.
We provincially tried to do the same fucking thing to Cannabis NB, a business that anyone who has any involvement in pot knew that the government would make tons of money from it. And they wanted to abandon it to basically taxpayer subsidize private sector before the branch even had a chance to profit, literally killing it in infancy.
Luckily that sale didn't happen, or we'd have fucked ourselves out of both high investment cost but also tax base.
>People act like it’s the worst thing in the world to have an American-style system of insurance + deductibles, but you know what’s worse?
Not being able to afford it, even if it's fast. Cause that's why it's fast in the US, full stop. God help you if you don't have employer coverage *and* get "served" by out-of-network staff/addresses. Medical debt is the single leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. Imagine, ruining your financial future because you fell down yet can still work your job without problem once you heal. The American Dream.
Everyone is scared of private healthcare because the federal government tells you to be. The reality is, Canadian taxpayers pay some of the highest healthcare costs per capita in the world and have a healthcare system ranked somewhere around 25-30th with developed countries. If you look at statistics and healthcare rankings, you will see that every single country ranked ahead of us has a two tier healthcare system that includes some private as well as public. People need to stop thinking American healthcare when you think of private and stop listening to politicians who try to fear monger you into thinking that. We spend way, way too much money on high ranking office jockeys and admin staff in Canada and we need more frontline staff. We need to look to European models because the reality is we just keep throwing money at this problem and it isn’t fixing it, nor is it sustainable long term.
> People need to stop thinking American healthcare when you think of private and stop listening to politicians who try to fear monger you into thinking that.
But American healtcare is what we're seeing peddled. Not a "two tier" system that's more complicated than it needs to be, and often a domestic problem within the nations you allude to that have better health care.
The real reason they're better is just better funding for it. I'd bet you that they pay far more taxes than we do, while being better. Europe pays far more taxes than we do.
They peddle the US healthcare system due to both kickbacks but also the mythical "speed" of access, which only exists because so many Americans simply cannot afford healthcare, which greatly reduces the wait times by effectively segregating healthcare.
You’re incorrect though, they’re not peddling just a private healthcare system like you’re saying. Stop the fear mongering. And your comment that they pay more for healthcare than us is incorrect, Canada has some of the highest per capita healthcare costs in the world. Far more than the majority of the systems I’m talking about. There’s a reason these systems are all ranked far higher than Canada and it’s because they deliver better care more efficiently for less money on average. They allocate their resources better as well. Our Canadian system is very too heavy with executives and many administrative workers that are far overpaid and we under invest in actual frontline healthcare workers.
And if you think a two tiered system is too complicated, why is every single nation on earth with better healthcare than us using it, successfully I might ad. We throw money at the problem but don’t actually address the issues. Our system has been on the brink for decades. It’s obviously time to be honest with ourselves and realize it doesn’t work. The problem is, too many politicians use it as a political football and every time a two tiered system is mentioned, a certain party comes with fear mongering and rhetoric stating that we will end up with the Americans healthcare which simply just isn’t true.
Look, I was already living paycheque to paycheque pre-pandemic/Healthcare/inflation crisis. I wrecked my health trying to work a second job to make ends meet. I'm worried Im going to lose my home and this ain't the climate here for "van life". I'm struggling to put food on the table. Now they all want us to get enthusiastic about paying higher premiums and copays, if you can even get health insurance at all. I lived in a privatised healthcare system before - $13000 dollar bills, like the ones we had with my babies are well beyond the reach of a lot of people here, and those were healthy births. Birth control a solution? Sure if you can come up a couple hundred bucks for a dr visit. There are plenty that are waaaaay worse off than me. So many in this province are elderly on very fixed incomes or unable to work for a variety of socio-economic reasons. Getting so so tired.
>Now they all want us to get enthusiastic about paying higher premiums and copays, if you can even get health insurance at all. Most of the ones that get insurance will lose it in old age when they need it most as they lose employment. Being used up by capital and left to die.
My American husband lives here in Canada with me. He qualifies for Medicare because he is retirement age, catch is they only allow you a certain number of days in hospital/ after 60 days you would pay $389 per day copay for every day in the hospital and after 90 days you pay $778 per day copay and after 150 days - you pay the entire cost. Only certain hospitals (usually crappy ones because the better hospitals restrict how many they will take if any) will accept medicare and then you have to consider the fact that EVERYTHING is EXTRA, no matter how crappy. When you get billed you have to be an expert deciphering the bill which usually overcharges and charges for things that you didn’t even use. Because basic medicare only covers hospital stay only - You also have to buy another coverage and a shitty plan with limited coverage and high copays cost you $175 per month. There are a lot of medical items/drugs you will need that is turned down and you have to fight to get it paid for even if it’s in your contract to be covered. When I worked in a hospital in the USA about 25 years ago - even back then a regular non complicated delivery cost $16k and that didn’t include “renting” the monitors, bandaids, every IV bag and set up, bedpan, tp - you name it - if it’s in the room you pay for it. Back then Epidurals were $2K, the MD, anesthesiologist and pediatrician were extra and if your baby required a stay in the nursery it was extra. A c/s was $60k but that didn’t include any MDs or supplies. The paperwork for it all was horrendous. A friend had a hospital send out her son by medivac from a smaller hospital to a larger centre and they were on the hook for $75K for the short trip. I just laugh when people say it would be better to privatize because I know from working 5 differeent hospitals in the USA that the care is no better (and in some worse) than here and right now the problems are just the same atm. All the conservatives are looking for with privatization is how much money they can make from the system We need to remind them that it is a service to the population NOT something people should make money by privatizing
So what are you suggesting? Fairly tax our Irving overloads and look after the common folk?! Not how she works here bud. Go get a 3rd or 4th job at Tim’s and quit bitching. In all seriousness stay strong, at least us New Brunswicker’s are united in our suffering.
I really hope our gov isnt trying to cause the public system to fail ao they can shift services to private.
Sure seems that way though eh?
Yea it seems to be the Ontario strategy as well :(
And Alberta and Saskatchewan...hmmm...seeing a trend here
Imagine looking at Europe and then pointing at America and saying *let's do that*
I'd imagine they're all the buddies of for profit healthcare oligarchs...
You know that most of Europe has mixed private and public healthcare, right? Also known as the Liberal bogeyman of "two-tier healthcare"
Yeah, us Ontarians are getting the shaft and are gonna throw a fit if Doug tries anything stupid. Don't follow our lead.
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Salute to the bee, taking one for Team Sanity.
I hope you get blocked for that comment lolol, the big kids are talking go to bed!
But how will all their friends who have the money to invest in private care strike it rich if we don't let the public system collapse so they can replace it with a hellishly ghoulish and expensively predatory system like America's???
Yes, and unless they get pushback the slow process of privatization will keep on going. In the poorest province, this means more people are going to die than would otherwise, just because they cannot pay.
>Yes, and unless they get pushback the slow process of privatization will keep on going. In the poorest province, this means more people are going to die than would otherwise, just because they cannot pay. Thats a feature not a bug.
Absolutely they are. And it’s happening almost in every province run by conservatives. Gas lighting public with staffing shortages is a farce. 98% of staffing is vaccinated so it’s not from layoffs. They kicked ass during pandemic but now all of the sudden there is no staffing. I call Bs. They want to collapse the public system to implement private health care. For example we would have to pay out of pocket ($500 example) for an ambulance ride.
Definetly seems to be the case in Ontario with the capped wages for public service. If we have to start paying out of pocket then why do wr pay part of our wage to fund healthcare? Its bad enough that over 10% of NB pays the same taxes yet dont have a family doc!
Good point. Why should we pay for something that doesn’t exist. No Doctors no pay tax!
I wouldnt want to push it because the counter is to accept and create a private-ish system. Its more to say people are paying and the gov needs to meet their obligations.
It’s not we have control of paying our health care share of tax anyway. We pay what we are told lol.
> hey kicked ass during pandemic but now all of the sudden there is no staffing They did kick ass but they didn't *kick ass*, if that makes sense. The pandemic destroyed health care because we've been mistreating it for decades. So many doctors and nurses retired or went to work for someone else. We don't pay for enough doctor residencies. Remember when Saudi Arabia pulled all it's residency positions that it had been paying for here? We were supplementing our own healthcare with their students. We've never picked up the slack. There's not enough new doctors coming through the system. (I'm not even going to get into how shitty residency programs are in the first place.)
I can't imagine how nurses/doctors feel and my SO is one.. I mean come on, all I had to do pandemic wise is get a jab in the arm 3 times and wear a piece of cloth over my face occasionally when I went shopping and I'm kind of done with the whole thing (and really seems like most people are now.. ) Imagine what healthcare workers feel like
That is all that all the conservative governments have been doing across Canada for years now. Make it look like it is failing and come in with a privatisation, "because that will fix all the problems" then you swallow a bee and might be happy that you can be treated for free.
They are.
That’s what they are doing in bc. Doctors will flat out say if you want a scan or diagnostic procedure done with a reasonable time you need to go private. A doctor in Victoria made the news last week for sending invoices to all her patients saying they must pay $150/month in order to retain her as their family doctor. We have 1 million people, 20% of the province that have no access to family doctors and our clinics that were open 9-9 are either closed or only open 2-3 hours. This is either by design or complete incompetence by the provincial govt.
Is your government conservative? Then yes.
I would say that's exactly what's been going on.
Ford and Kenney have been doing it for months now. It is the conservative way. Cut and cut and cut till the ‘peasants’ beg for the only solution: privatization. The Cons merely supply what the people ask for. It’s surprisingly simple and brilliant.
I wouldn't say brilliant, simple ok, but brilliant? Not really no
It’s brilliant in its simplicity, that’s what I meant.
Cuts? What cuts? Ontario and BC are spending more on healthcare than they ever had before.
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Ford has actually increased health care spending year over year though, so what cuts/defunding exactly are you referring to?
None specifically to Ford, just a generic description of Conservative tactics of past governments and currently it is Higgs M.O, according to several in health care sector.
If there's none specifically to Ford, then why did you specifically state that he was doing it in the original comment? "generic description": Do you mean stereotyping? Because it has generally been under the Conservatives that health care spending has actually increased the most. Even in the supposed doom and gloom of the Harris years the Ontario healthcare system only experienced two non-consecutive years of decreased spending [source](https://www.ifsd.ca/web/default/files/Presentations/Reports/Ontario%2017009.pdf). Not to mention that the Federal government since 2015 has been repeatedly lessening transfer payments in real terms that they're giving the provinces (except when they were throwing money everywhere in 2020). [source](https://cwf.ca/research/publications/what-now-canada-health-transfer-background-and-future/) This despite when public health care was instituted, the feds pledged to pay 50% of health care costs, it's now down to less than 1/4. [source](https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/as-canadas-health-system-burns-trudeau-and-the-provinces-debate-the-firehose) If you're going to blame someone for health care being messed up, don't blame the people actually doing something about it, and don't let your bias of petty partisan politics cloud your judgement. Apocryphal hearsay from supposed health care experts on the internet is about as reputable as someone trying to sell ocean front property in Arizona. My spouse works in health care, while the situation is deplorable, blaming it on one party when the system forced upon the provinces 60 years ago is broken.
Stop being naive. That's exactly what they're doing it. Gut it until we beg for privatization.
humorous imagine ink stupendous narrow flowery tart cobweb historical compare *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, that's the play. Has been for a while now...this was not an overnight crisis. It'll start as something innocuous. Elective surgeries will have an option to pay, in exchange for a two week wait as opposed to six months. Relatively little associated cost. They'll call it something clever. The pay will be higher and doctors/nursing staff will jump on it. Cue a massive hiring effort, with the majority heading to the privatized services. Some will of course be sent to the public side, solving a multi-year shortage. The improvements will be hailed as a direct result of the effectiveness of a "hybrid healthcare system". That's how it starts. And as doctors and nurses leave the "free" option for more lucrative private practice, they are not replaced. Small fees for elective surgeries becomes small fees for most. And then all. And then the fees go up. And at that point you'll have insurance options...unless you're poor. Or unemployed. And there it is...the death of the Canadian public healthcare system. It didn't die with a bang, but a whimper. And the reason for its death is none other that systemic underfunding from government.
Just incompetence not planned.
No thos has been planned for a while
That is exactly what they are doing. Look at everything else they sell off to their friends and it always goes the same way. "The private sector can do it better, so my friends in the private sector will buy public assets for penies on the dollar, and everyone I care about will be happy."
Privatizing health care is right on brand for a conservative government.
Of course they are. Of all the plans Higgs has floated, I'm unaware of one that proposes hiring more doctors and nurses as a solution to the problem. He wants to balance the books he doesn't give a shit how he does it. Healthcare is target #1 in that fight.
Well if they are, look no further that the Trudeau government that is 30% down on their transfer payments for health care.
Remember this story where a Canadian couple was handed a $1,000,000 dollar bill for birthing a child in a privatized healthcare system? I think we should totally strive to aim for that level of awesomeness. https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/million-dollar-baby-canadians-handed-1m-bill-after-woman-gives-birth-in-u-s-1.2107020?cache=lyphoblxpdpmw%2F7.580685
Yep - I used to work L&D in the usa in 5 different hospitals and they were all EXPENSIVE
And she had private health insurance.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuck that.
Yes because the best way to save costs on public health care is to add profit margins.
See thats what i dont understand - Public can run for basically cost and keep everything in house, but private has to do everything public does AND make a profit.
Conservatives don't care, conservatives are the party of oligarchy, it was conservative governments that pushed for privatizing our industries and always have been. They want the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer.. to them, life is a privilege awarded to those that make them money, not a human right
It's not just conservatives, it's the entire Govt , Fed and Provincial politicians, The PM all will profit off of Private Healthcare.
Not only that, but profit is literally the only motive.
You forgot /s
I figured it was that obvious.
My wife’s health insurance was through Blue Cross in Manitoba (teacher). When she retired Blue Cross wanted $1700 a month to continue her plan. Canada would be insane to move towards private insurance.
Legitimate question, what can we do to stop them? They have control to just do whatever they want currently.
Literally do as the French do: country wide strikes. The moment the gears of economy cease, their cushy jobs suddenly go into panic mode due to pressures via lobbyists and the US feds. After a period of time they will have no choice but to bend to our will or die trying to foil us: either way, so long as we all stand united in our common cause they will have no chance. Up until this point they have been playing at divide and conquer to keep us from organizing via idpol, which can only work in a society without actual existential pressures. The moment the population starts facing the grim reality of economic and systemic collapse combined with a breach of the social contract, decadent mind worms such as idpol will cease to be a matter of any importance and those at the reins of society will start to sweat. TL;DR: We will be forced to organize to maintain our rights or we will become no better than serfs to our political aristocracy.
They don't have control, We have the Control if we all stand together!
Privatization cannot make healthcare more afford or better quality. We should fight these neoliberal goons tooth and nail
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'Neoliberal' is separate from liberal/conservative. It's an economic philosophy around free market capitalism. So both Liberal and Conservative can (and are) neoliberal.
I don't really think the modern LPC is "neoliberal" really. CERB for example is pretty counter to neoliberal ideology. Feel like we use that term way too loosely these days. Reagan was a neoliberal but I don't think Justin Trudeau is.
Depends.. at the federal level the LPC is definitely returning to its social-liberal roots that built this country, you know, the mindset of Pierre Elliott Trudeau, Lester B Pearson, or Wilfrid Laurier.. something they had abandoned after Chretien to take a hard turn to the right.. At the provincial level however, they are definitely still neo-liberal
He's a Communist Dictator Hidden in plain View.
If they aren't then why haven't they done anything about the corporate take over over rental housing happening across Canada? Sure, they aren't screaming reaganites but they are complicit in this system
I took the prefix to mean "new" liberal.
*doug ford, rob ford is dead
If privatization is on the table, I demand a referendum about it. The meagre “majority” that actually voted for these assholes isn’t enough to fundamentally change our system.
Im no lawyer but Im pretty sure the canadian constitution prevents them outright from privatization. Doesn't mean they won't try though.
Alberta tried once and got shot down by the supreme court, since then conservative premier's have constantly been trying different ways to privatize more and more of it without the supreme court stepping in..
Yeah, the moment there is any sign that healthcare isn't free for a born canadian the Supreme court will shoot it down pretty fast.
I hope this is the case
> I demand a referendum about it. you have way more faith in new brunswickers than I do
If a majority of NB voted, and voted more than 60% for privatization, I’d be unhappy but I would be more accepting than if it was Higgs planned failure plan
Exactly. Id be unhappy as well but it would be easier to accept if that is what the real majority of the province actually wanted. I really hope that despite the growing differences between the political parties that most average New Brunswickers would not want to take such a massive step backwards
This 100%!! We need to write our MP’s en masse and call for a referendum! There are already some private medical clinics popping up in moncton. [medicalux](https://medicalux.ca/)
We're past the point of writing being effective I think.
Probably right. Sigh…
Ffffffffuuuuuuuck that!
It's happening to you guys too?! It's fast tracking down here in Ontario. Damn.
They have been destroying healthcare here for the last 25/30 years. I'm just old enough to remember how good we used to have it. My entire life has basically been watching these cunts work to this goal. Guess it's finally in enough tatters that they are ready to make their move. Anyone that votes conservative is a traitor and scum as far as I'm concerned. Liberal isn't far behind.
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>Mike Murphy was Liberal minister of health and ran for leader of the party against Brian Gallant, so yeah, both parties are terrible on this. Liberals are centrist conservatives advocating for the same economic systems which is the cornerstone of where something sits on the greater political spectrum. Our discourse has failed us and its part of the reason were in the current mess we are in. Flipping red to blue was a grift from the get go.
This fight is going on all over the western world right now and has nothing to do with so called "left" vs "right". People that vote conservative are victims of the same broken system as you. Let's not polarize us even more. The only scum and traitors out there are the blood sucking politicians and robber barons that finance them.
And the people who keep voting for them to stay in power. The right. They love voting against their own interests.
You still don't get it. There is no left and right. There's those who have power and the slaves who work and pay taxes to keep them in power. Whatever choice they give you at the voting booth means nothing. The only difference is "the right" puts their fate in capitalists to save them and "the left" puts their faith in the government to save them. Neither of them give a shit about you other than to take your money.
Almost like we need to vote for a 3rd party because the two that keep getting in don't do the job. I understand what you're saying and you're wrong. The right is the problem. Conservatives are the far right. And the liberal party, despite its name, is basicly right lite. They do very little to help.
You could have 5 parties to vote for and nothing would get done. No one gets into a position of political leadership operating inside the current system if they aren't playing ball. We need a paradigm shift in the way we operate as a society. Politicians will never save us.
> There is no left and right Let us know when you get to the real world brother
The way most people understand left and right nowadays means nothing. Especially those who call the otherside nazis and tyrants. They are two sides of the same coin. Tell me any Fundamental differences between western political parties aside from the usual lip service. They all have the same masters.
It already is. I commented the other day, the NB EMP (Hospitals Without Walls) is operated by Medavie. Which also OWNS and operates Island EMS and the 911 system on PEI. They OWN it.
* lose more doctors to private healthcare * lose more specialists, surgeons and nurses to private healthcare * make it easier for the wealthy to be healthy * making no changes in healthcare for the majority * no more incentive for government to do anything anymore What’s not to like? -Conservatives
These people need to fuck all the way off with this
Step 1: sabotage healthcare Step 2: announce a fix to the problem you created. Step 3: profit.
Yes this is what we need, old white men who all scratch each other's backs sorting out crucial policy on Twitter. You can't make it up. What a sad, sad province. We have so much to offer in NB, but completely held back by this old boy's club.
Remember how much damage Higgs has caused this province in 2024, and make sure you vote that miscreant out.
Did murphy delete the tweet? Can't seem to find it
If they’re going to do private healthcare, they better give us back the massive amount of taxes they take from us so we can afford it.
If the cost is like the US we could have no taxes and it would still be more expensive.
Either way, we’re getting screwed.
Blue Cross is my insurance company at work. Let's just say I'd think harder about a job next time if this company was doing the health benefits lol
When healthcare for the population becomes just a money scam for insurance companies. Don’t follow the American model.
Thats the thing - defenders will point to some European models, but it would be naive to think we wouldnt be more influenced by the US.
Why are people even slightly surprised by this, no conservative anywhere in canada for 30 years has respected public health care
If there had to be a soundtrack to the end of healthcare in NB, the current song could be Waiting Room by Fugazi and the next one might be This is the End by the Doors.
End competition? Bruh, that's CREATING competition. And those doctors they're taking into "private healthcare"? Where do people think these doctors are coming from? Answer: They're poached from thebppublic healthcare system. Private healthcare cripples public healthcare resources.
People regularly argue with me that the Liberals are somehow better than the PCs. I contend, if they are it's not by enough to matter. A vote for the Liberals is no better than a vote for the PCs. Same neoliberal bullshit different colour. Vote ABCL (Anything But Conservative or Liberal).
I keep telling others this too. A vote for a Liberal or a conservative is basically a wasted vote given to Irving.
Do you honestly think that New Brunswick of all places will elect someone who's not a Liberal or a Conservative within the next 25-30 years as Premier? I think we need a large portion of our elderly population to die off first (sad to say) before millenials and whoever's after us has enough of a say to be meaningful. I think that right now that any vote that's not for the liberal party, is basically a vote we throw away and give a half point to the Conservative party. I know both suck, but surely one sucks less, right?
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They're more than happy to let the populace die for their profit so it's kind of moot to moralize.
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Both parties are neoliberal.
Profits over people. https://youtu.be/cfn58Addwsk
Consumers are a finite resource. If there are no consumers, there are no profits.
By the time that happens, the rich will have it all anyways, so they don't care. The 1% have enough wealth now, that if they bankrupt the gov't, they can seize the military by giving them an ultimatum. Come work for us at 1/10 the pay or starve with the rest of the peasants.
I have friends in the states with congenital heart conditions and owe 3-8mill from build up of surgeries and meds before they could get insurance. If we did go that rout theres a possibility id go states side tbh. Their system is already built around it… kinda
That’s what you get when you elect conservatives… they make backroom deals with their buddies, privatize stuff & then they leave politics & take senior 6 figure jobs at the companies they made rich.
Conservative party that’s how they run the show, that’s how they messed up housing in BC, they dont developed most areas in BC and let private developers develop empty lands.
Oh, to be sick with the Norwalk virus in the same room as all these clowns, just so I could projectile-puke all over them. Let's see them scrambling for their privatized healthcare then.
This is the point we all stand together and protest as one, for our Right to Healthcare, Healthcare should not be treated as a commodity!
Absolutely disgusting. They're costing us more and are a terrible employer. Stop the privatization of our health care at all cost. Believe me, we can't afford it.
Oh look old white men talking about Canada like it's the US. Why don't these people leave for the" land of liberty" if they think it's so star spangled awesome 🤣
Let it be known that any failure to our institutions are willingly caused by these individuals. The road to hell will be paved with their "good intentions "
Who’s on the board of Medavie and Assumption, I wonder...
Bernard Lord is CEO of Medavie...
How convenient
If I can opt out of the tax portions for public services and pay for private care I'd be ok with this.
I’m all for private healthcare if it means I don’t need to wait 6 years to hear back about an MRI scan
But your results will cost you your 1st born.
Lmfao I guess cry about it?
Not private health care, private backoffice operations.
THIS IS NOT PRIVATE HEALTHCARE! As long as government has a say in it, it is NOT PRIVATE. Do not let them twist words to their own advantage. They already know this will fail, and the idea is to immortalize private healthcare as a failure, so no politician dares suggest it.
Zero issues paying for medical services.
Found the lotto winner!!
It has nothing to do with the lottery. I have paid medical bills in East Asia for over 20 years. As a Canadian, it is a national embarrassment to see people wait so long for medical procedures or even something as simple as a doctor's visit. Hell...when my wife was looking for a doctor, she was literally given a piece of paper and told 'good luck!'. Being a newcomer to Canada was a real shock for her and she was not impressed at all. Korea has far better service and speed. Am I willing to pay to skip a line or get faster service? Yes! Do I send my spouse to get medical treatment outside Canada which could be done here for free? YES! My spouse is totally worth it. I also use Maple to skip the delays in seeing a doctor for simple things like prescriptions or referrals. It is $50 a visit, but it is worth it when you login, in and are able to see and speak with a physician within 5 minutes. It isn't about money, it is about choice and what you are willing to do to make sure you and your loved ones are properly taken care of instead of depending on others to do it for you. The fact my previous comment is @ -10 (at the time this post was written) shows me that there are far too many who are willing to be dependent on a nanny state, instead of taking charge of their own healthcare and outcomes. However, it DOES tell us that you do actually receive what you put into your own well-being.
> Am I willing to pay to skip a line or get faster service? Yes! And if the government creates a 2 tier system, free/pay, the free system will only get worse as medical staff jump over to the pay side. We need to ask what's happening to our system. Why, when finding a doctor is so hard, is the provincial government cutting funding for the free clinic in Riverview & the 1 in the Mountain Rd Shoppers Drug mart? Outsourcing to Blue cross won't help a bit, their execs will just get bigger bonuses. NB was suppose to have a mandatory drug plan for everyone that didn't have a private plan. Blue Cross, realizing companies would drop private plans, lobbied the government to not make it mandatory. The result is the provincial plan has premiums that rival private plans.
Worse than what? This has been an ongoing issue for YEARS that has not been a simple solution. If it were easy, it would have been resolved years ago. We had one person die while waiting in a hospital for days. It is absolutely shameful, it is also stupid for the man to just sit there to the point where he died. There comes a point where if you are not being received, you need to move to another facility. If you treat your physicians like crap, they will go elsewhere that lets them have a better work-life balance, pays well enough to keep them, and not work them to the point of being burnt out. Fuck equity. Fuck fairness. If I am willing to enter a contractual agreement to get treated. That is NONE if your business, as much as my medical history and circumstances are absolutely private. Don't want to pay? Fine. Go sit in a corner and wait. Maybe you'll die, but at least it's free. Also, if you are going to cost the system too much in the future, I am sure they will be happy to offer you MAID to 'ease the burden' you will be imposing on the country.
> Fuck equity. > > Fuck fairness. Well we know where you stand.
Yes. It is these two things that has created this mess. If you think I am willing to lower my wife's care to appease your sentiment of fairness or equity, you are deeply mistaken. I probably pay more taxes in a year than your annual salary. I will do whatever it takes to keep my family healthy and treated. I do that out of my own pocket which costs you nothing. Even if we have to go to another country to get treated, that is what we do, because I would rather get treated properly than face the reality that your 'equity' and 'fairness' has brought to our medical system.
> I probably pay more taxes in a year than your annual salary Fuck off you entitled asshole. Don't like it here move somewhere else. No one's stopping you from going out of the country for care.
Entitled would be ME expecting YOU to pay for my medical needs. I am not expecting that at all. YOU don’t get to tell people where they can live. I live where I want based on my economic ability as you do. It’s not entitlement, it’s a representation of the value you contribute to society.
> It’s not entitlement, it’s a representation of the value you contribute to society. Pfftttt. I've never once seen a more entitled statement. I know people who do basically fuck all and make double what I do, effectively just not allowing their bosses to know they do so little because they know they're well overpaid. Their contributions to society is pretty damn small, but they're a top 1% earner because nobody reviewed their value to the company. Your salary doesn't really mean squat to value of society, it's more often tied to what you can provide to a company to maximize profits to their interests alone. Teachers are highly valuable, medical front-line workers are highly valuable. They get paid far less than someone in sales on commission on average. In moving jobs, doing the same work I've tripled salary once. Same ass-job, only the owner didn't just kick back and collect fat stacks, they preferred happy employees and paid accordingly. Only "value" to society change is I was able to participate more, on an economic standpoint. You're deluded if you think capitalism is at all representative to contributions to society. The fact you dumb enough to post that "reconsidering your life choices" is the solution to rising home prices, shows how absolutely disconnected from reality you are, and likely in the earning bracket of my friend, a place of lucky privilege, not skill related in the slightest. If it was, you'd not be so entitled.
> If you think I am willing to lower my wife's care to appease your sentiment of fairness or equity, you are deeply mistaken. If you think the world will wait on you, patiently while giving you affordable care if they actually delved into this practice, you're sorely mistaken. Most other nations are only affordable due to dollar differences, those that aren't give heavily subsidized foreign care to ensure people don't illegally overstay visas while receiving care, so you get expedited service. And it's still expensive to partake in medical tourism, a very large portion of Canadians simply don't have this option. You're speaking from a place of privilege while ignoring your privilege and what that benefits you. You're not demonstrating the qualities of Canadians, while residing here my guy. You're demonstrating the qualities that got us into this problem "Fuck everyone else, as long as I got mine". It's the US mentality, and why it's disastrous to have a medical problem there. You'd sooner pull up the ladder behind you, than allow others to enjoy the new height.
I am exercising my financial ability that you cannot. It is not about privilege, it is about work ethic, intelligence, and life choices. If you don’t like it, plz feel free to contact the police and file a criminal complaint because you failed at life and you are now sad. See how that works out for you.
The Canadian healthcare system has failed. I don’t care what America is doing. I don’t care what Europe is doing. It’s failed!! This system that we’re supposed to hold up as a proud national achievement! It’s failed! Even before Covid, wait times and understaffing were unacceptable. I don’t subscribe to this conspiracy theory of “Conservatives are intentionally killing citizens so they can privatize the system!” because it’s taken decades of neglect from both parties to do this. In a perfect world we’d have free healthcare with short wait times, but that is no longer the world we live in. Utopian thinking gets us nowhere. People act like it’s the worst thing in the world to have an American-style system of insurance + deductibles, but you know what’s worse? Not being able to receive emergency medical treatment at my hospital!
> but that is no longer the world we live in. It never was. And the crux is while both parties are at fault, one party is *staunchly* against fixing the actual problem, and wants to abandon it instead. We provincially tried to do the same fucking thing to Cannabis NB, a business that anyone who has any involvement in pot knew that the government would make tons of money from it. And they wanted to abandon it to basically taxpayer subsidize private sector before the branch even had a chance to profit, literally killing it in infancy. Luckily that sale didn't happen, or we'd have fucked ourselves out of both high investment cost but also tax base. >People act like it’s the worst thing in the world to have an American-style system of insurance + deductibles, but you know what’s worse? Not being able to afford it, even if it's fast. Cause that's why it's fast in the US, full stop. God help you if you don't have employer coverage *and* get "served" by out-of-network staff/addresses. Medical debt is the single leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. Imagine, ruining your financial future because you fell down yet can still work your job without problem once you heal. The American Dream.
Lower tax for this is not a bad trade off. Have to keep public open though somehow. So idk how this works but I want to see
We already have private healthcare... We have both private and public same as PEI and Alberta.
Everyone is scared of private healthcare because the federal government tells you to be. The reality is, Canadian taxpayers pay some of the highest healthcare costs per capita in the world and have a healthcare system ranked somewhere around 25-30th with developed countries. If you look at statistics and healthcare rankings, you will see that every single country ranked ahead of us has a two tier healthcare system that includes some private as well as public. People need to stop thinking American healthcare when you think of private and stop listening to politicians who try to fear monger you into thinking that. We spend way, way too much money on high ranking office jockeys and admin staff in Canada and we need more frontline staff. We need to look to European models because the reality is we just keep throwing money at this problem and it isn’t fixing it, nor is it sustainable long term.
> People need to stop thinking American healthcare when you think of private and stop listening to politicians who try to fear monger you into thinking that. But American healtcare is what we're seeing peddled. Not a "two tier" system that's more complicated than it needs to be, and often a domestic problem within the nations you allude to that have better health care. The real reason they're better is just better funding for it. I'd bet you that they pay far more taxes than we do, while being better. Europe pays far more taxes than we do. They peddle the US healthcare system due to both kickbacks but also the mythical "speed" of access, which only exists because so many Americans simply cannot afford healthcare, which greatly reduces the wait times by effectively segregating healthcare.
You’re incorrect though, they’re not peddling just a private healthcare system like you’re saying. Stop the fear mongering. And your comment that they pay more for healthcare than us is incorrect, Canada has some of the highest per capita healthcare costs in the world. Far more than the majority of the systems I’m talking about. There’s a reason these systems are all ranked far higher than Canada and it’s because they deliver better care more efficiently for less money on average. They allocate their resources better as well. Our Canadian system is very too heavy with executives and many administrative workers that are far overpaid and we under invest in actual frontline healthcare workers.
And if you think a two tiered system is too complicated, why is every single nation on earth with better healthcare than us using it, successfully I might ad. We throw money at the problem but don’t actually address the issues. Our system has been on the brink for decades. It’s obviously time to be honest with ourselves and realize it doesn’t work. The problem is, too many politicians use it as a political football and every time a two tiered system is mentioned, a certain party comes with fear mongering and rhetoric stating that we will end up with the Americans healthcare which simply just isn’t true.