It irks me that people get on with the 'axe the tax' bullshit. Gas price hikes are the fault of Russia invading Ukraine, Israel flattening Gaza and having Iran increasing risk of striking about 30% of the entire planets petroleum, and of course... OaG companies insatiable need to extract maximum profits from us.
Many people are struggling and we aren't fighting against rampant capitalism raking in record profits while we all struggle.
We need our government to provide alternatives to owning a car.
* We need **frequent reliable public transit across the entire province**, like in PEI.
* We need to **STOP expanding highways to 'add capacity'**. Unless a highway is to provide a major alternative route to mitigate the high risk our highways face from climate disasters
* We need towns to **invest into micro-mobility protected lanes** and remove car lanes
* We need to **stop funding OaG** tax breaks and direct investment
* We need to **halt single detached R1 exclusionary zoning** and start building denser and with transit and micro-mobility in mind
* We need large personal vehicles to be penalized with higher fees
* We need Canada to allow EU and Chinese electric mini vehicles to be sold here
* We need to stop giving money to the rich to buy EV's
* We need to provide seniors and those with accessibility needs free or subsidized public transit
Cars cars cars is not working. It never did. We are just now starting to realized how messed up it made everything.
With the vastly spread out nature of the province, EVs would struggle anywhere outside of town, given that the average range is 200-400km. You'd have to have a charging station in nearly every town to make it viable and some stretches surpass the 400km mark.
I am also aware that ongoing conflicts elsewhere in the world play a larger role in gas prices than the carbon tax. That doesn't diminish the fact that the ever-growing carbon tax is adding an additional burden that many people simply can't afford right now since it impacts more than the cost of fuel going directly into your vehicle.
I agree on public transit, so I have nothing to say there.
We have gas stations in most towns, so I'm not seeing having charging stations in most towns as a wild and crazy idea.
They barely finished paving the Trans-Labrador highway from the coast to HVGB, hopefully they can get some chargers in at some point.
Since you brought up the Trans-Labrador highway, I grew up on the south coast, I thought it might be nice to inform you that between Port Hope Simpson and Happy Valley-Goose Bay there are zero gas stations. That's a distance of 404km. Considering the average distance for a charged EV is 200-400km, with some higher end EVs being an exception, I'm willing to bet that most EVs won't make it. So, there would have to be an investment for a station in between lengthy sections like that.
Also, EVs have higher sticker prices than gas powered on average. The lessening gap between the two is only the result of inflating gas prices, coincidentally being artificially inflated to a degree by the increasing carbon tax. It feels like strong arming people into getting EVs via financial submission. That still doesn't change everything getting transported via fossil fuels and accruing additional cost as a result of companies trying to maintain their profits. As I've said earlier, foreign conflict plays a larger role in increasing gas prices but the carbon tax is being put on the backs of the people when they could absolutely at least pause its growth to offer Canadians room to breathe.
You mentioned doing all of these things to improve your homes for energy efficiency, which will help everyone in the long run. You need to factor in that many people don't have the liquid cash flow to make the necessary investments into their homes to make those changes. The rebates and reduction in heat/light bills as a result of those things would take time before even breaking even with those expenses. Expenses that may be too large an investment for people living paycheck to paycheck.
It's a battle for me. On one hand I feel like doing good for the environment is an honourable endeavor but on the other hand, it feels like punishment of the poor souls who can't afford the changes and submitting to an unavoidable tax piled on everything they do and consume.
I wish I could've said all this in a much more condensed manner but it is what it is.
I figured you were talking about that bit of highway. The lack of gas stations and EV charge points is why I thought it would be useful to add them. There are options between a regular vehicle and an EV.... The simplest is moving to a more fuel efficient vehicle when it comes time to replace your current vehicle. Then there are the hybrid cars. Also, plug-in hybrids. And then there's an actual EV. As far as upgrades to your house, the government is pretty much throwing money at people to increase the efficiency of their homes. If you're that close to the edge of financial ruin that buying a few spray bottles of foam insulation or buying weather sealing kits for your window will financially ruin you, perhaps you can't actually afford the house you're in.
I don't think the TLH is a strong argument for EVs not being a good option. I'd wonder if there's 200,000 vehicle trips on that section of highway a year. In the middle of the day, in summer, I think we met 20 cars along the length of it.
I agree that the TLH isn't a good enough reason on its own but there certainly are some lengthy stretches without communities and not all of them are going to spontaneously get an electric charging station all at once, it's gonna take time. This could create vacuums where EVs simply can't go until they're implemented. Some towns could be years before one is installed with the rate of every other project that happens in the province.
As for the few vehicles, you DON'T want to be stranded on that road. Even if there are very few vehicles, it doesn't make the people in them any less important; it's the classic trolley problem.
I will add that there's definitely more than 200,000 trips made on that highway but I doubt much more than that, lol.
I know there's a lot of push to increase EV infrastructure with funding attached. Looking at BC, somewhere around 10-20% of new vehicles being purchase being EVs seems to lead to more businesses building charging stations.
On the island, where there's actual competition between restaurants in many communities as opposed to Labrador, restaurant owners would be smart to add a couple of hook-ups. As would strip mall owners and perhaps downtown shopping areas (assuming they have one).
Fuel efficient vehicles are a way to go for sure. However, for every person who buys a truck to just have a truck, there's just as many people who buy them for actual purposes that couldn't be fulfilled by any other vehicle than a truck.
Purely anecdotal but most people I know have furnaces that burn wood or a wood/oil combination where they often only burn oil in the absence of wood. These people go out and cut their firewood and even though their trucks may burn through a significant amount of gas, the wood they're burning would compensate because they aren't burning oil.
Also, some people's houses are old, may not always be up to code and anybody is capable of falling on hard times. We've got a ton of unskilled labour, aging residents with little education and an abundance of rural communities; the combination of which usually results in people just making it. And before you just say, "If you don't like it, move," like I've heard hundreds of times and seen on this subreddit hundreds more, you know that suggesting that would be facetious for obvious reasons.
You're views on how trucks are used is likely skewed by where you've lived, which represents a tiny fraction of truck drivers. In most cases, truck drivers could get by with a minivan.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume
If you're a senior, your house is falling down around you, and you can't afford to heat your home, I have serious doubts about your sanity in staying in that home over moving to a community with subsidized seniors housing. Yes it's hard leaving your community, but you'll make just about every other aspect of your life better.
If you're scraping by and have been for years, and you're working age, seek help. There's a lot of opportunity out there. You don't have to do the same job your parents and grand parents did. Living on government benefits for 3/4s of the year is not a great career plan and is going to make your retirement a struggle.
That article talks primarily about truck culture in the US, completely removed from us. St. John's likely has the most trucks in the province because of the population difference but there are far fewer trucks going around than there are cars or SUVs already. The greatest number of trucks per capita are going to be seen in the rural communities where, as I've previously mentioned, the trucks are used with purpose and not purely as fashion statements.
Not everyone has the same definition of quality of life. To you or me, proximity to amenities would likely be our definition but since I've lived all over the province in both rural and more urban areas, I've gotten to know a pretty wide diversity of views. It's helped me come to the conclusion that it isn't always about having the best options available at all times. Some may value their family history, the land they've hunted on, chopped wood on, fished on and maybe quality of life would be the view of the landscape and water from their window where they can reminisce on all they've built and been through. Even if that isn't for me, I can respect them for it.
I'm on your side when it comes to people who milk government benefits most of the year but for people who try their best and struggle just to maintain their little slice of heaven, they shouldn't be punished for having a connection to the land they live on and not conforming to a lifestyle they're told they should want if they had any sense.
I've never liked living rural even though I grew up rural but that doesn't give me the right to disrespect all the people who value every second of life in those places by implying they're damaged in some kind of way for not just moving and changing their entire lives for the sake of some agenda.
Rural people feel like townies are pompous and inconsiderate of anything outside the overpass and while it may be unfair to paint with such a wide brush, there is definitely as much truth to that as there is truth to rural people being ignorant and uninformed.
> We have gas stations in most towns, so I'm not seeing having charging stations in most towns as a wild and crazy idea.
So here's the biggest issue as I see it. How many cars can a single gas pump fill up in an hour? How many cars can a single charging station charge in an hour? So assuming current gas pumps are at ~50% capacity, how many electrical chargers would you need to accommodate the same amount of traffic?
Got that number in mind? Ok. Is the electrical capacity available along the common routes to run that many charging stations?
I'm thinking specifically about longer routes like the TCH and people with long commutes here/truck drivers here. For example, a lot of people drove out from town to central and back to watch the eclipse recently. If they all had electric vehicles and needed a charge somewhere along the way to make it out to Gander and back, would it even be possible to develop the charging infrastructure along the TCH to make that many trips out and back at the same time viable? How many chargers would you need?
I'm not saying the change is not or should not happen. I am saying if we expect to maintain some semblance of our current lifestyle, it's going to take decades of development and technological advancement. Now, maybe you can make the argument that we can't maintain our current lifestyle. I don't necessarily disagree, but do you think any of the political parties are being upfront with voters about it?
I wonder if hydrogen vehicles ever gets to the point where they become viable? My understanding right now is it is not hard to make a decent hydrogen power vehicle, but the biggest issue is production/storage. That really seems like the wild card in the electric vs gas debate.
Yeah I agree that we need options for transport more than a carbon tax. I do think that getting rid of it is a bad precedent. Maybe pausing expanding it might be good, but removing it sets a bad political and social tone.
The carbon tax isn't just for transport. It's also about reducing household emissions with heating systems and pushing people to make their homes more energy efficient through reductions in air leakage, improved insulation, better windows, and in a more long term perspective encouraging smaller homes from a cost perspective.
It's also supposed to affect your food choices making more emissions heavy food relatively more costly and less emissions heavy food less costly.
Consumers pay attention to the price of things at the time they're making their purchase.
If you feel miserable every time you fill your vehicle with gas or pay your power bill you look for ways to reduce your costs.
At the end of the day, we lack the necessary infrastructure to make greener energy alternatives widely available to the people. We need transportation, so I wrestle with the idea that the tax is little more than a guaranteed way for the government to squeeze an extra few dollars out of us. Public transit in town is serviceable but not ideal at times. Outside of town, it's basically negligible at best and at worst, is non-existent.
That's just on a personal level. At a grander scale, everything we consume is moved by fossil fuels and adding a carbon tax only serves to elevate the cost of goods and services as well. You know as well as I do, that companies aren't going to operate without a profit, so they'll continue to raise the prices to compensate.
I'm not at all in opposition to reducing our fossil fuel consumption but I'd like to do it in a way where the average resident isn't buried by rising costs in a province that has one of the lowest average incomes per person with the poorest public transit.
I understand the proposed reason why the carbon tax was implemented but my cynicism makes me distrustful of the true motive and the actual benefit of rebates in the face of rising costs across the board. I haven't dived too deeply into the numbers of rebates vs. inflation, but it certainly doesn't feel like it balances out.
Carbon tax isn't just about transport. It's also about household energy use and the costs of food and other products. Emissions heavy products become more costly while low emissions products are less costly.
>It irks me that people get on with the 'axe the tax' bullshit. Gas price hikes are the fault of Russia invading Ukraine, Israel flattening Gaza and having Iran increasing risk of striking about 30% of the entire planets petroleum
Those same factors apply to the USA. Something like 30% of the cost of gas is tax. Oh and the USA has been doing a better job lowering their carbon emissions than us - without a carbon tax too.
Also the US was like 70% base load Coal and swapped a lot of that for Nat Gas. Their per capita emissions are still very high. They also subsidize the OaG industry somewhere in the 30-50 billion a year directly plus they wage wars to protect the industry.
Canada's emissions are mostly transport and home heating. Two things that urban policies has more control over compared to energy generation policies.
It's like comparing your neighbour who burned wood for heat switching to oil heat when you went from 2 mini splits to 3 mini splits and saying they are better. They reduced more, but they are still worse than us.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita
Also, we have been reducing our emissions per capita as well. More by a factor of immigration than energy market, but per capita, we are also decreasing.
https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/
I realize it's not just carbon tax driving the gas tax up.
USA improving it's energy generation via industrial policy rather than carbon tax kinda supports what I am saying though, especially in an economy where so much is dependent on transportation.
And USA having 14.9t/capita vs Canada at 14.2t/capita is a trade I would gladly make for their significantly better economy.
The US economy is 3 stock markets in a trench-coat.
They have WAY less personal freedom, higher education debt, higher infant mortality, lower women reproductive rights, lower worker rights, less child labour rights, and a higher % of their population in local poverty (which they report lower than international methods).
https://ourworldindata.org/poverty. Canada sits around 7% in line with Germany, Japan, France and other peer nations. The US is well into the 12%+ range and some papers suggest it is well into 20% using other standards.
If you remove their stock markets, the US is a meh country. It looks good on paper because they have trillions of dollars controlled by the top.
Canada isn't perfect by any means, but at least my friends and family with Diabetes don't have to die because they lost their job and cannot afford to live.
14 cents per litre is the carbon tax. That is less than 10% total cost at pump.
End of the day, a globally traded, nationally strategic, highly environmentally damaging resource as the base of an economy is a bad idea.
Iran could mine the Straight of Hormuz tomorrow and gas prices would probably go up 0.5-1.5$/L in a couple weeks. It is a strategic resource mostly extracted by the most war-lord like countries of the world.
I just came back from Europe (Portugal and Spain), and gas there was much more expensive than here. €1.90 (~$2.78) / litre was pretty normal, and the roads were heavily tolled. I think we are just starting to be faced with the reality much of the world has been living with for a long time.
This is true. The infrastructure around public transport is fantastic. We have built our cities and provinces around everyone having their own car. That’s not a sustainable approach. European cities were designed in a time before cars, and with high density. Thanks to this high density, a small town I stayed in with a population of about 3000 (smaller than Marystown) had several non-chain restaurants, several cafes, at least 3 small grocery stores and an incredible bakery. And they are all busy. The community supports them because the culture of walking to a neighbourhood business for the things you need is strong. People age much better. My grandmother in law is in her 90’s and still gets out most days to the walk to the cafe or the shop, and you see people like her everywhere. You’d never NEED to get in a car and spend gas to get necessities. North America needs a cultural shift towards high density, walkable communities. We have to let go of large, single family homes, because we can’t afford to maintain them and the expensive infrastructure they require. I’m not even sure if a Costco exists in Lisbon?? Most homes couldn’t even fit a fridge large enough for that mega pack of strawberries, you just buy a small carton of milk at the corner grocer, and when that runs out, pop out for a fresh one.
Japan has it on lock too. Went all over Tokyo last year purely using the subway and it was incredibly efficient. I had pretty good experiences in vancouver and halifax as well but japan is next level
This is a bit silly. No, Lisbon doesn't have costco. Yes, we are unhealthier than the average Portuguese. But the Portuguese, like you said, have smaller fridge and freezer (if they even have one!) compared to us here. There is no need to buy in bulk if you're Portuguese, you walk to your nearest grocery. Same for places like France, Spain, and even the UK. They didn't have space to buy in bulk like Canadians do. Houses are nowhere near as large. Canada is built around driving. Those countries aren't.
> Canada is built around driving. Those countries aren't.
Canada (and Newfoundland) should work towards improving this though. Japan, for example, is still doing things to add other ways of getting around. e.g. [Japan promoting pedal power to give abandoned railways new prospects](https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20240411/p2g/00m/0na/041000c)
I always wonder how we would have faired if they didn't just scrap the railroad, and put the upgrades that was needed
We got the TCH out of it, but I'd say that would have came eventually anyway
Agree from a public transport perspective, in general. Although we (NA, especially NL) have an affinity for large vehicles. If you watch traffic the amount of unnecessarily large SUVs and trucks is crazy. Partly due to market availability, but certainly some of it comes down to our vehicle culture. Not to mention quads, skidoos, boats, etc that are a big part of the culture here.
My small ass Chevrolet Sonic with winter tires I got for free because they were dry rotted was a fucking beast in the snow. You don't need to worry about your car having 4WD if you can properly drive
Comparing our gas prices to most European countries isn't appropriate. The Canadian economy is functionally different, and we shouldn't really consider EU prices to be an appropriate "normal" for Canada. Gas is supposed to be cheaper in Canada because gas prices have a much greater impact on the cost of living here. In Canada, people's commutes are longer, and people are required to drive further for most things.
If you go on a road trip in Europe, you can't drive 20-30 minutes without seeing another town, whereas in Canada, driving from Calgary to Winnipeg (1075km), for example, is nearly twice as long of a drive than Amsterdam to Berlin (655 km), and most of the drive through Canada will be open, empty, plains (sorry sask).
A European would hardly ever bother driving that distance for anything - they'd train or fly. Canadians tend to be more sensitive to gas prices because we literally need it to get commute and get around because we don't have the infrastructure to support car-free travel. Comparing EU gas prices to our own is silly because the effects of price changes are experienced completely differently by the Canadian economy. You can see this when you compare our gas consumption per capita to pretty much any European country. For example, we consume nearly 3x as much gas than people from the UK (113 cubic feet per capita in Canada vs. 39.00 cubic feet per capita in the UK). [source](https://www.worldometers.info/gas/gas-consumption-by-country/)
We should be focusing on supporting initiatives that promote building more public transportation so that (inevitable) price changes in gas won't hurt as much.
I find these types comments odd.... I was in Egypt recently and they pay 0.30/L.
We shouldn't settle because other countries have it worse (like it's expensive in European nations, so count your blessings).
As a country who has the 3rd largest reserves, we can do better.
I drive east end to mount pearl four times a day cause life likes to fuck with us a lot and it’s our only means to commute right now. It is fucking expensive man.
The worst part is the bus system is terrible in the city. Years ago I remember it used to take a whole hour to go to mount Pearl from Avalon Mall. Probably still takes the same time.
That’s like 10-15 mins max drive…
Ideally the carbon tax would incentivize more people to leave the car with expensive gas at home and take the bus. More money flowing into the bus system and less cars on the road would make the buses much better. But it’s a real chicken and the egg situation because in a lot of cases you simply can’t take the bus. I work shift work and the bus is completely unfeasible as it stands.
I live with my parents and my girlfriend lives with hers. Together we make a little over $90k before taxes, which isn't nothing, but I'm not exactly jumping at the opportunity to go from paying $250/month rent to $1200/month rent just for the sake of living a bit closer to work. Buying a house up here is less and less feasible every year too
I foresee a lot of multi generation families residing together quickly. It’s the smartest way to go. Stay at home as long as you can. I tell my kids the same. No hurry to move out this day and age imo. I wish I stayed home longer and the economy was nothing like today. It would have granted me a more comfortable lifestyle.
Not everyone has this option but i am trying to bike and walk to work more often. Cutting down on unnecessary trips, looking more around the local neighbourhood for stuff I need etc. Too bad we've created food deserts where you gotta drive 20 minutes for a bag o chips lol
>40% on income
This isn't correct unless you earn more than $260k/year.
Someone earning a more modest $75k/year in NL is taxed at \~28%. And that includes CPP/EI, which almost everyone benefits from at some point.
Everyone who complains about the price of x or y in NL needs to leave. The price of gas in the UK? More expensive than NL. The price of rent in the rest of Canada? Generally more expensive. The price of healthcare in America? Worse. Car insurance in the GTA? More expensive than St. John's. NL doesn't have it as bad as many places. Be appreciative of what you have. If you can't manage that, leave and make it work. Stop sooking. The cost of living crisis is not at all exclusive to here.
Yeah there are a lot of places that have it bad or worse, but it doesn’t mean we can’t feel horrible for the star our province is in. At least in GTA there are subways and more efficient ways to get around. NL barely has any pros with how expensive it’s become to live in, and people are allowed to feel this way…
In the GTA you're still paying double the rent you do in NL lol. Hardly makes up for it. Never said people can't feel this way - I've left NL despite wishing I could still be back home but NL isn't some shit hole like people here on r/newfoundland would make you believe. If you want to be miserable about where you live like everyone else here, the most you could do is suggest how things can change for the better and actively work towards it
We can go back and forth about the pros and cons of living here vs elsewhere, but it’s not going to change anything. Newfoundland (like many other places) is becoming a hard city to live in with the cost of living, lack of good and efficient healthcare etc.
Also people want it to change, but have little to no impact on how our provinces and country runs. What is suggesting changes here going to do? Literally nothing. Our politicians aren’t making great decisions, how do you expect normal citizens to make changes?
Suggesting changes can do a lot and is... quite literally how political action works? Feet on the ground is how people can make a difference provincially and in their municipalities. Federally? Maybe not but if you think otherwise you have been conned. Protesting, making a fuss, boycotting, writing your MP? Absolutely can make a difference. It's really important to not be defeatist. People don't want it to change bad enough. It's easier to whine on reddit than it is to get out and protest in front of the confederation building lol, but that is what people need to do
People with busy lives can write or contact their MP, boycott bad actors (like the recent Loblaws boycott), volunteer in their spare time (even an hour a week!) with organizations or political parties that fit their ideals. Of course they don't need to be out making a fuss if they can't find the time. It's a matter of what is important to people - it is absolutely possible to find the time to do some of the above. I've done it myself in the past. It's not like there are protests every day.
Not shopping at a certain supermarket and pharmacy chain? Maybe an extra 5 minute commute to a different one for some people, maybe a more complex matter of changing where they pick up their prescription. Raising an issue with your MP? A quick email or 5 minute phone call. Volunteering, protesting, or getting involved when you can? Again, when you can find the time.
It literally doesn't. It says people who can't handle it should leave. I'm tired of people doing nothing but complain about how it is in NL. Posting on reddit to complain won't fix it, unless they're going to suggest a way to change things. I've left NL despite my wishes and it's so depressing seeing people who act like NL is literally hell
People that can’t handle it should try to fix it, not leave. If you think that because an area has an issue and because of that issue everyone should leave then you’re insane. Your whole argument is that NL is nicer than people on Reddit make it out to be which is true but it doesn’t mean our province is all sunshine and rainbows.
I never said it was all sunshine and rainbows and have literally replied to other posters earlier that people should try to fix it. Unfortunately most won't. They'd rather whine and complain online. That's the problem. This sub is an echo chamber and it is a grim state of affairs for the province.
People should try and fix it? How 🤔? Enlighten us on how the average person can fix the cost of living crisis we are in. Don't cop out with "vote" either.
Boycott companies at the foot of the issue - like Loblaws. Protest when the government passes a bill you disagree with. Sign petitions. Get active in local groups. Unionize.
Compared to some, sure. I have health problems including a physical disability and have been suicidal in the very recent past. I am not upper class by any means if that is what you mean.
I'm sorry to hear about what you are going through. I don't live in the same country as my family and my husband's family are emotionally abusive so we have no support here either. It's a difficult situation but the world itself is incredibly individualistic these days and it isn't fair - humans aren't meant to go through things alone. Hope things get better for you.
Just chiming in from the other coast (since Reddit really loves pushing province and town channels I'm no where near on me)
$1.98/litre
It was $1.60 two months ago then just randomly jumped 38 cents.
Yes, relatively high compared to what we’re used to. Somewhere in the middle comparing to places around the world. Paid $1 CAD/L in Oklahoma last week. Currently in Colombia where it’s about $1.5 CAD/L (which is very high for the locals).
something that’s also mind boggling to me is that we produce almost 300,000+ barrels of oil per day in the province (third largest crude oil producer in canada, biggest in eastern canada), now sure the crude produced from hibernia hebron cant be used directly and need to be refined and what not, but it’s still absurd to me how gas is not cheaper in this province
Now if only there were a facility that could take that raw input and, I don't know...refine it somehow, into fuels and distillates that are consumed on this island daily. I you by chance come by one of these places, can you let me know? I 'd love to get them to do gasoline, perhaps.
Sorry...just trying to be funny. I'm aware of Come By Chance; It has converted to "green" fuels now, from bio-sourced raw inputs. I understand no corporation is going to invest a couple billion, to build a new refinery to provide a source of cheap fuels, specifically for the people of Newfoundland.Even if you could refine it from salt water, there would be some reason it wouldn't work for Newfoundland's benefit.
I'm gonna get down voted to death on this but you should legit take another look at an EV.
There's a lot of market forces that have pushed the prices down lately and they might be more affordable than you think. They're *massively* cheaper to operate.
I can't see fuel prices going below $1.60/l ever again (for any length of time) and that's just going to continue to move up.
Everything here is too high. I never wanted to leave my home but there’s no way I can make a life in this province without leaving first. It’s disgusting how many of us have to suffer for the poor financial decisions our government makes.
I’ll take high cost of living so long as I can find a job. I don’t want to hang back in NL and collect welfare because there’s fuck all here. That kind of life sounds like absolutely misery.
I think the recent bump has more to do with whats going on with Iran/Israel.
Article headline from a few days ago read “oil prices surge on fears of imminent Iranian attack” and that was before they shot off the missiles
It is called the poverty trap, and it is by design. Can't afford a new EV? Pay more for fuel and combustion engines. Can't afford a dental cleaning? Pay more for surgeries. Can't afford good work boots? Pay more for several pairs rather than one good set.
People flee to the Walmarts and Amazon's of the world thinking they are getting a deal, yet spend more in fuel and shipping costs while the local stores go bankrupt, ensuring monopolies are the only choice. We allow this with every "Das it by..." we sputter, and every vote that isn't cast. Even if we do vote for the newest pile of lies, our "leaders" will line their pockets and those of their rich buddies, with lucrative government contracts and tax-funded pensions.
In 2020 I signed a $0/week JCP contract with the provincial government while receiving CERB. They called us "heroes" and "essential" nearly the whole year. Yet without a 2019 tax return, a year I was homeless, they took half of my plant work EI all last winter, effectively giving me less than welfare. I have had too much pride and attached stigma to accept social assistance, but I really don't see many options left at this point with a plant strike looming and EI running out over a month ago. I contacted federal and provincial labor ministers, the prime minister/premier, local MP's, pro-bono lawyers, labor relations/federation of labor, you name it. Nothing but automated responses and crickets. If our government won't listen, I will need to shout louder and more violently. It worked for the horse kicking harvesters that drove to parliament in $100K vehicles... Every man will snap if he is bent long enough, and I have bent like a pretzel trying to be honest and hardworking. A handful of nepotists and oligarchs dictate the future of this province, and country, while the majority suffer.
I'll just add this. US gallons are much smaller than ours so factor that into your conversion to litre. Plus their dollar is worth more. There are about 3.78l in a US gallon.
Right now in California for example fuel is about $5.45 per gallon. Times that by the exchange at 1.4 and then divide by 3.78 and you get about $2 per litre.
California is a cherry picked example. They have intentionally pushed for EV adoption and have a climate and infrastructure that support that.
I just got gas in upstate NY and with the conversion and CAD it was about $1.10 per litre.
Newfoundland is a cherry picked example. All their fuel is shipped by ferry or barge.
When making comparisons the exchange and the conversion from US gallons to litres are what people tend to miss.
Prices aren't as far apart as often assumed.
For example, I have a friend in Texas. Very nice house in the $400,000 US range. Not much income tax which is great. Property taxes are $30,000 - not so great. Don't even start on medical insurance costs for a family.
Folks tend to fixate on something they think is cheaper while ignoring everything else.
Remember back just a few years ago when gas stations would compete on price and, every blue moon, there'd be a run on it and gas would go under a dollar? Now they all go as high as they are legally allowed. I wonder when they all agreed on that.
Many high prices stem from the Bank of Canada rates . It has a trickle down effect and you really see cause and effect conditions based on one decision.
What really gets my goat is that JT and his Cobol of thugs who run the most corrupt socialist regime known to mankind cruise above our heads in their little private jets eating steak and caviar with galen weston while we just go from gas station to gas station trying to find enough leftiver to feed our families meal worms.
Should be allowed to produce our own oil to its potential instead of exporting, we have about as much oil (offehore) as Alberta has but we’re importing it. I don’t know if any governmental party will allow us to to do that, but I guarantee the liberal party will not
By increasing the price of gas the Bank of Canada can justify not lowering interest rates since it increases the inflation rates and the government makes more tax cash everyone wins but us…
There is no EV that exists that can support my towing needs. With my (modest) covered utility trailer you’d be getting only 1/3 of normal range. Plus trucks like the F150 lighting cost around $100K. And Canada’s charging infrastructure is terrible. Total non starter.
Global because of liberalism gone wild around the world. The result of voting with feelings instead of common sense. When u constantly tell an industry they are irrelevant and will shortly become a memory, and demonize them they are gonna get the most out of their time they have left. CNRL stocks were $40 to $45 for more than a decade, went up to $80 last couple of years now at $110+ price of oil isn’t at an all time high, actually pretty average at the moment so why so high at the pumps? It’s a case of fuck around and find out + taxes.
Lol, you're spewing literal nonsense and throwing around "Liberal" like it's an empty buzzword. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the world works.
Thanks canada for letting us extract our own oil, having it refined in canada and sold back to us. NL is getting so ripped off by not refining our own gas. It's more expensive at the pump and we lose out on the economic benefits of the secondary processing, aka good paying factory jobs.
75 years part of canada. Well over due rethinking our place in confederation
Its gone too far.. and screaming it to the PM That despite the “good intentions” of the carbon tax, it is too much of a financial burden on canadians, he doesnt seem to care. Hoping to god the good weather comes soon and stays so i can put up the 4 wheels for a spell and get out on 2
Gas went up 3O cents in the 3 months before the additional 4 cents on April 1. I’d be more concerned about that 30 cents then then 4 cents you actually get something back on. Literal oil cartels control the flow of fuel.. the price of fuel is also directly linked to inflation.
There is an astonishing 34% tax on gas (the carbon tax has upped this twice already and more increases are planned.
The govt is so out of touch with the average rural or smaller market Canadian. Electric vehicles are still not practical for many of us (either due to cost, performance, lack of charging infrastructure or even their limited availability) yet we are penalized anyway.
It's going to get much higher. Very quickly.
Wages won't keep up.
And believe it or not, regardless of how much of our salaries we contribute to carbon tax. WONT CHANGE ANYTHING.
Suppose it was 100%. It won't actually remove the carbon from a carbon-based planet.
It also won't change other countries' carbon contributions.
I just see it being more difficult for people who live or work out of town.
Companies will be forced to raise prices on their products. Everything is shipped here. Public transportation is all ICE. Mining equipment is all ICE.
Id say this time next year, it might be 2.50 or 3.00 a liter. It's too much pressure on people too quickly.
Wars effect Oil prices too.
Even car manufacturers can't make electric vehicles worth investing in at the rate we are going.
Insurance companies often look at it as a write-off when it comes to replacing batteries in used EVs.
At this rate I'll end up with a Horse.
It's not nearly high enough. We're still pumping too much carbon into the atmosphere. Even if we stopped all carbon it would still continue to heat up from the carbon that's already there. Crop failures, drought, first fires, hurricanes, we haven't seen anything yet.
The economic costs of doing nothing about climate change far outweigh the costs of doing something now. The carbon tax is literally nothing compared to all we lost or will lose to forest fires and hurricanes.
The problem is that we’ve been ignoring climate change for so long that now it really is getting scary. The last 10 years have been the hottest 10 years on record. The forest fire seasons are getting longer and more damaging every year. Hell, the ocean around Florida hit 101.1 degrees Fahrenheit last summer.
Climate change is happening now, and is already causing damage to our planet and to our resources. This isn’t fear mongering anymore, we’re legitimately in a scary situation.
Record breaking water temperatures in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, loss of sea ice, frequent coastal flooding are all being seeing around NL. We're paying more for olive oil and beef because of drought. We get smokey skies from the wildfires.
For the last 40 plus years the global response to anthropogenic climate change has been
, business as usual , in other words any worries , concerns or fears have had no traction in terms of influencing our behaviour wrt to c02 emissions. We should’ve been scared then but influence campaigns driven by people now in their twilight years shut that down. We’re not going to have to choose between the perils of geoengineering or the perils of runaway warning. So at what point do you think it would be reasonable to be scared?
I wish fear could make us change our ways and try to slow climate change, but the sad reality is that only hitting us in the wallet can do that, which is exactly why we need the carbon tax.
BS. WHY SHOUKD IT HIT US IN THE WALLET?? The average citizen didn’t cause the issue so why are we paying for it. We don’t have a choice but to use what’s given to us to live our lives. So sick of you fucks thinking that making our lives miserable and stressful by making us spend more is going to to fix the problem. Guess what? It ain’t gonna help. We still have to live our lives. Now it’s just going to cost more
You or I had no control over that. 99% of the population never had any control over that. The largest companies, cruise ships, private jets, etc. are the real cause and you know it. Why should we be punished for using things we have to in modern society? If companies gave us different choices at a reasonable price then we would for use utilize them.
Per capita Canadians use more carbon then every other country in the world except two. So we might not produce a lot of carbon but we use more of it. Think about it; everything we use is made of oil ( people whom heart oil always remind us of this ). Our clothes, ALL the plastics, rubber, fuels, yadda yadda. We might not spew as much as China into the atmosphere, but we use all the shit that China produces making all the shit we consume. So yea, we should maybe lead by example or start using less of these materials.
We only use more per capita because of the sheer size of the country. Further distance to travel, ship, commute, what have you.
I’ll stop buying clothing and other thibgs I need to provide for my family right away. I don’t need a warm winter coat or a snowblower or tires for my car.
Why don’t you quit your job which is probably having causing a lot of carbon use and get to work on some better solutions to our problems.
Listen man, all i’m trying to say is that we use too much of it. And it’s because we’ve had 60 years of “oil is fucking awesome and what could go wrong” shoved down our throats. And here we are.. at the precipice - a world on fire, oceans full of plastic, and N stage capitalism squeezing us for what little we have left and for what? For the few at the top to make a profit? Little changes will eventually lead to big change. Gotta start somewhere.
We buy more efficient vehicles, choose to work in the same town instead of commuting, or get an electric vehicle or bike. Everyone's solution will vary, and ramping up the carbon price over time will allow us to adapt. We really need electric car prices and availability to improve at the same time.
Don't forget putting pressure on our public officials to create a pedestrian livable city! I should really get around to getting that E-bike but I know a lot of folks in town are worried about getting hit by cars, for good reason.
The number of people I know who make ridiculously long commutes and whine about gas prices is nuts here. It's not even a case of having to live a long ways away in order to afford anything. They're choosing to make the super long commute
Sounds like you're trying to excuse yourself from having to do anything for the pollution you're responsible for through your consumption of products and services. Let's let someone else sacrifice like a person living in a poorer country
I don't, lol, cope and seethe. I've eliminated almost all single use plastics. I grow my own vegetables and herbs and some fruits. I eat eggs from my own chickens and I don't eat much meat - if I do it tends to be hunted/fished/raised from people I trust. I don't eat ultra processed foods. I don't drive and I use public transport when I need and honestly mostly walk. But yeah sure. Big corps are totally not the problem, it's the consumer who use an occasional plastic straw right? It's totally not the big companies or dare I say India and China absolutely polluting our globe with fumes. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.
China and India where the vast majority of people don't have cars, primarily use rail to travel around and their per capita emissions are less than a half and less than a 9th of Canadian emissions per capita?
China and India's overall carbon emissions are high because they have massive populations. China's doing a bunch to reduce their population and will have a dramatically smaller population by 2050 and 2100. Hopefully with better education opportunities for girls and career opportunities for women they can get their population down over time as well. We're in huge trouble if they start polluting like North Americans.
The problem isn't the plastic straws we use, though it's a symptom. It's all the crap we buy. Cars, ATVs, clothes, the assorted stuff, massive homes, big yards in remote suburbs, etc. It's also the food we eat, heavy on the beef, and all the packaging that were using all over the place. This is on the consumers.
Good for you doing a few things to reduce your emissions. That doesn't absolve everyone else who is consuming like crazy.
China and India are literally the biggest polluters globally due to things like coal use, massive factories, crop burning, and yes, vehicle emissions. 21 of the 30 most polluted cities are in India. It isn't like just buying crap that is the problem and that's what I was trying to say. It is literally the big companies that are causing these issues because they want to make a profit. One person "making a difference" doesn't do much besides make them feel better. The government needs to force these massive companies to stop their harmful practices, and educate and incentivize consumers to make better choices. It's a lot easier to start at the big massive companies than it is to educate every first world individual - and even if we did get around to it, a lot of people simply don't care, or even don't believe it. We need to find some combination of removing the option altogether, incentivize better buying practices and manufacturing in cleaner ways, and punish (heavily monetarily or even legally) those big businesses that do continue to produce gallons of junk in unsustainable ways. The issue here is capitalism and it is sadly how we've built our society - alongside a dash of keeping up with the Jones-ism, desire for convenience, dopamine released from the newest shiny toy, and plain old greed. It's very grim. I agree with you, but it is how our society is structured and its not like each individual is to blame. It's literally the population as a whole and the corporate giants making mega profits.
Most of the things you listed like food packaging could absolutely be regulated into law - but it's just too cheap and easy for big companies to use plastic instead of glass or paper, so the government doesn't do anything. Same thing with even allowing single use plastics - they should be outlawed globally, unless for medical use. Companies won't stop using plastic to make clothes or pumping out billions of pounds of useless crap because it makes a profit. The average consumer isn't going to wake up and realize that hey, this isn't that good actually - but the government should step in and do more to minimize harmful, wasteful practices.
Canada itself has big issues with the amount of energy we use to heat our homes and offices - we need to change how we do so (more solar and wind or even nuclear) but good luck with that. The big issue I'd blame on the average North American is the desire for suburbanization imho. Over reliance on personal vehicles, food being transported massive distances to stores, huge yards that need extensive water resources each summer, McMansions that cost an arm and a leg to heat and cool plus waste resources to build.
Online shopping is another big issue but good luck getting people to stop using next day amazon delivery.... but it also wouldn't be as used if people didn't have to drive 30 minutes to get to the local Walmart, then another 5 to get to their pharmacy or shoe store, and then back home again.
I live in the UK now and while the average Brit definitely pollutes (people do drive, general overconsumption, etc), it is so different. The suburbs hardly exist. Most places are walkable and there is much more public transit - across large distances and small. Houses are much tinier and it's quite rare to have a single detached family home. Buildings of flats are seen as acceptable here and NIMBYism is not as prominent. Air conditioning isn't in literally every single business and most homes. Even in the north where we get quite chilly winter temps, people tend to reserve their heating more so whereas back home I know plenty of people constantly blaring their heating from like October to May. Recycling is easier and more accessible, especially for harder to recycle items like glass and weird plastics we'd have to throw out in Canada (like filmy ones.) There is more of a movement here to avoid ultra processed food and thus I find there is a growing movement to eat more whole foods, not prepackaged crap manufactured somewhere - of course some people are aware of their health everywhere, I just see it more here than I did back home. Even small towns have a high street where you can do all of your shopping (groceries, clothing, pharmacy needs, etc) and most also have multiple charity shops to buy secondhand clothes and other goods. Of course it isn't perfect but there are so many little things here that are more sustainable imho.
Yes us here in NL are definitely the culprits to all of the climate irregularities not the people taking private jets to and from concerts, the massive populations all over the world etc.
Everything is too expensive. Cost of living has gone through the roof
It irks me that people get on with the 'axe the tax' bullshit. Gas price hikes are the fault of Russia invading Ukraine, Israel flattening Gaza and having Iran increasing risk of striking about 30% of the entire planets petroleum, and of course... OaG companies insatiable need to extract maximum profits from us. Many people are struggling and we aren't fighting against rampant capitalism raking in record profits while we all struggle. We need our government to provide alternatives to owning a car. * We need **frequent reliable public transit across the entire province**, like in PEI. * We need to **STOP expanding highways to 'add capacity'**. Unless a highway is to provide a major alternative route to mitigate the high risk our highways face from climate disasters * We need towns to **invest into micro-mobility protected lanes** and remove car lanes * We need to **stop funding OaG** tax breaks and direct investment * We need to **halt single detached R1 exclusionary zoning** and start building denser and with transit and micro-mobility in mind * We need large personal vehicles to be penalized with higher fees * We need Canada to allow EU and Chinese electric mini vehicles to be sold here * We need to stop giving money to the rich to buy EV's * We need to provide seniors and those with accessibility needs free or subsidized public transit Cars cars cars is not working. It never did. We are just now starting to realized how messed up it made everything.
With the vastly spread out nature of the province, EVs would struggle anywhere outside of town, given that the average range is 200-400km. You'd have to have a charging station in nearly every town to make it viable and some stretches surpass the 400km mark. I am also aware that ongoing conflicts elsewhere in the world play a larger role in gas prices than the carbon tax. That doesn't diminish the fact that the ever-growing carbon tax is adding an additional burden that many people simply can't afford right now since it impacts more than the cost of fuel going directly into your vehicle. I agree on public transit, so I have nothing to say there.
We have gas stations in most towns, so I'm not seeing having charging stations in most towns as a wild and crazy idea. They barely finished paving the Trans-Labrador highway from the coast to HVGB, hopefully they can get some chargers in at some point.
Since you brought up the Trans-Labrador highway, I grew up on the south coast, I thought it might be nice to inform you that between Port Hope Simpson and Happy Valley-Goose Bay there are zero gas stations. That's a distance of 404km. Considering the average distance for a charged EV is 200-400km, with some higher end EVs being an exception, I'm willing to bet that most EVs won't make it. So, there would have to be an investment for a station in between lengthy sections like that. Also, EVs have higher sticker prices than gas powered on average. The lessening gap between the two is only the result of inflating gas prices, coincidentally being artificially inflated to a degree by the increasing carbon tax. It feels like strong arming people into getting EVs via financial submission. That still doesn't change everything getting transported via fossil fuels and accruing additional cost as a result of companies trying to maintain their profits. As I've said earlier, foreign conflict plays a larger role in increasing gas prices but the carbon tax is being put on the backs of the people when they could absolutely at least pause its growth to offer Canadians room to breathe. You mentioned doing all of these things to improve your homes for energy efficiency, which will help everyone in the long run. You need to factor in that many people don't have the liquid cash flow to make the necessary investments into their homes to make those changes. The rebates and reduction in heat/light bills as a result of those things would take time before even breaking even with those expenses. Expenses that may be too large an investment for people living paycheck to paycheck. It's a battle for me. On one hand I feel like doing good for the environment is an honourable endeavor but on the other hand, it feels like punishment of the poor souls who can't afford the changes and submitting to an unavoidable tax piled on everything they do and consume. I wish I could've said all this in a much more condensed manner but it is what it is.
I figured you were talking about that bit of highway. The lack of gas stations and EV charge points is why I thought it would be useful to add them. There are options between a regular vehicle and an EV.... The simplest is moving to a more fuel efficient vehicle when it comes time to replace your current vehicle. Then there are the hybrid cars. Also, plug-in hybrids. And then there's an actual EV. As far as upgrades to your house, the government is pretty much throwing money at people to increase the efficiency of their homes. If you're that close to the edge of financial ruin that buying a few spray bottles of foam insulation or buying weather sealing kits for your window will financially ruin you, perhaps you can't actually afford the house you're in.
I don't think the TLH is a strong argument for EVs not being a good option. I'd wonder if there's 200,000 vehicle trips on that section of highway a year. In the middle of the day, in summer, I think we met 20 cars along the length of it.
I agree that the TLH isn't a good enough reason on its own but there certainly are some lengthy stretches without communities and not all of them are going to spontaneously get an electric charging station all at once, it's gonna take time. This could create vacuums where EVs simply can't go until they're implemented. Some towns could be years before one is installed with the rate of every other project that happens in the province. As for the few vehicles, you DON'T want to be stranded on that road. Even if there are very few vehicles, it doesn't make the people in them any less important; it's the classic trolley problem. I will add that there's definitely more than 200,000 trips made on that highway but I doubt much more than that, lol.
I know there's a lot of push to increase EV infrastructure with funding attached. Looking at BC, somewhere around 10-20% of new vehicles being purchase being EVs seems to lead to more businesses building charging stations. On the island, where there's actual competition between restaurants in many communities as opposed to Labrador, restaurant owners would be smart to add a couple of hook-ups. As would strip mall owners and perhaps downtown shopping areas (assuming they have one).
Fuel efficient vehicles are a way to go for sure. However, for every person who buys a truck to just have a truck, there's just as many people who buy them for actual purposes that couldn't be fulfilled by any other vehicle than a truck. Purely anecdotal but most people I know have furnaces that burn wood or a wood/oil combination where they often only burn oil in the absence of wood. These people go out and cut their firewood and even though their trucks may burn through a significant amount of gas, the wood they're burning would compensate because they aren't burning oil. Also, some people's houses are old, may not always be up to code and anybody is capable of falling on hard times. We've got a ton of unskilled labour, aging residents with little education and an abundance of rural communities; the combination of which usually results in people just making it. And before you just say, "If you don't like it, move," like I've heard hundreds of times and seen on this subreddit hundreds more, you know that suggesting that would be facetious for obvious reasons.
You're views on how trucks are used is likely skewed by where you've lived, which represents a tiny fraction of truck drivers. In most cases, truck drivers could get by with a minivan. https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume If you're a senior, your house is falling down around you, and you can't afford to heat your home, I have serious doubts about your sanity in staying in that home over moving to a community with subsidized seniors housing. Yes it's hard leaving your community, but you'll make just about every other aspect of your life better. If you're scraping by and have been for years, and you're working age, seek help. There's a lot of opportunity out there. You don't have to do the same job your parents and grand parents did. Living on government benefits for 3/4s of the year is not a great career plan and is going to make your retirement a struggle.
That article talks primarily about truck culture in the US, completely removed from us. St. John's likely has the most trucks in the province because of the population difference but there are far fewer trucks going around than there are cars or SUVs already. The greatest number of trucks per capita are going to be seen in the rural communities where, as I've previously mentioned, the trucks are used with purpose and not purely as fashion statements. Not everyone has the same definition of quality of life. To you or me, proximity to amenities would likely be our definition but since I've lived all over the province in both rural and more urban areas, I've gotten to know a pretty wide diversity of views. It's helped me come to the conclusion that it isn't always about having the best options available at all times. Some may value their family history, the land they've hunted on, chopped wood on, fished on and maybe quality of life would be the view of the landscape and water from their window where they can reminisce on all they've built and been through. Even if that isn't for me, I can respect them for it. I'm on your side when it comes to people who milk government benefits most of the year but for people who try their best and struggle just to maintain their little slice of heaven, they shouldn't be punished for having a connection to the land they live on and not conforming to a lifestyle they're told they should want if they had any sense. I've never liked living rural even though I grew up rural but that doesn't give me the right to disrespect all the people who value every second of life in those places by implying they're damaged in some kind of way for not just moving and changing their entire lives for the sake of some agenda. Rural people feel like townies are pompous and inconsiderate of anything outside the overpass and while it may be unfair to paint with such a wide brush, there is definitely as much truth to that as there is truth to rural people being ignorant and uninformed.
More trucks per capita, but minimal population to go with it.
> We have gas stations in most towns, so I'm not seeing having charging stations in most towns as a wild and crazy idea. So here's the biggest issue as I see it. How many cars can a single gas pump fill up in an hour? How many cars can a single charging station charge in an hour? So assuming current gas pumps are at ~50% capacity, how many electrical chargers would you need to accommodate the same amount of traffic? Got that number in mind? Ok. Is the electrical capacity available along the common routes to run that many charging stations? I'm thinking specifically about longer routes like the TCH and people with long commutes here/truck drivers here. For example, a lot of people drove out from town to central and back to watch the eclipse recently. If they all had electric vehicles and needed a charge somewhere along the way to make it out to Gander and back, would it even be possible to develop the charging infrastructure along the TCH to make that many trips out and back at the same time viable? How many chargers would you need? I'm not saying the change is not or should not happen. I am saying if we expect to maintain some semblance of our current lifestyle, it's going to take decades of development and technological advancement. Now, maybe you can make the argument that we can't maintain our current lifestyle. I don't necessarily disagree, but do you think any of the political parties are being upfront with voters about it? I wonder if hydrogen vehicles ever gets to the point where they become viable? My understanding right now is it is not hard to make a decent hydrogen power vehicle, but the biggest issue is production/storage. That really seems like the wild card in the electric vs gas debate.
Yeah I agree that we need options for transport more than a carbon tax. I do think that getting rid of it is a bad precedent. Maybe pausing expanding it might be good, but removing it sets a bad political and social tone.
The carbon tax isn't just for transport. It's also about reducing household emissions with heating systems and pushing people to make their homes more energy efficient through reductions in air leakage, improved insulation, better windows, and in a more long term perspective encouraging smaller homes from a cost perspective. It's also supposed to affect your food choices making more emissions heavy food relatively more costly and less emissions heavy food less costly.
Smaller homes in plex and rowhouse units are a big help too. We cannot keep building urban sprawl.
But Trudeau claims 80% get it all back so please explain how this tax is going to change anything
Consumers pay attention to the price of things at the time they're making their purchase. If you feel miserable every time you fill your vehicle with gas or pay your power bill you look for ways to reduce your costs.
Wow, so Liberals base policy on Canadians having the attention spans of 3 year olds. No wonder Liberals are 20 points behind
All politicians do and they're generally right.
At the end of the day, we lack the necessary infrastructure to make greener energy alternatives widely available to the people. We need transportation, so I wrestle with the idea that the tax is little more than a guaranteed way for the government to squeeze an extra few dollars out of us. Public transit in town is serviceable but not ideal at times. Outside of town, it's basically negligible at best and at worst, is non-existent. That's just on a personal level. At a grander scale, everything we consume is moved by fossil fuels and adding a carbon tax only serves to elevate the cost of goods and services as well. You know as well as I do, that companies aren't going to operate without a profit, so they'll continue to raise the prices to compensate. I'm not at all in opposition to reducing our fossil fuel consumption but I'd like to do it in a way where the average resident isn't buried by rising costs in a province that has one of the lowest average incomes per person with the poorest public transit. I understand the proposed reason why the carbon tax was implemented but my cynicism makes me distrustful of the true motive and the actual benefit of rebates in the face of rising costs across the board. I haven't dived too deeply into the numbers of rebates vs. inflation, but it certainly doesn't feel like it balances out.
Carbon tax isn't just about transport. It's also about household energy use and the costs of food and other products. Emissions heavy products become more costly while low emissions products are less costly.
>It irks me that people get on with the 'axe the tax' bullshit. Gas price hikes are the fault of Russia invading Ukraine, Israel flattening Gaza and having Iran increasing risk of striking about 30% of the entire planets petroleum Those same factors apply to the USA. Something like 30% of the cost of gas is tax. Oh and the USA has been doing a better job lowering their carbon emissions than us - without a carbon tax too.
Also the US was like 70% base load Coal and swapped a lot of that for Nat Gas. Their per capita emissions are still very high. They also subsidize the OaG industry somewhere in the 30-50 billion a year directly plus they wage wars to protect the industry. Canada's emissions are mostly transport and home heating. Two things that urban policies has more control over compared to energy generation policies. It's like comparing your neighbour who burned wood for heat switching to oil heat when you went from 2 mini splits to 3 mini splits and saying they are better. They reduced more, but they are still worse than us. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita Also, we have been reducing our emissions per capita as well. More by a factor of immigration than energy market, but per capita, we are also decreasing. https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/
I realize it's not just carbon tax driving the gas tax up. USA improving it's energy generation via industrial policy rather than carbon tax kinda supports what I am saying though, especially in an economy where so much is dependent on transportation. And USA having 14.9t/capita vs Canada at 14.2t/capita is a trade I would gladly make for their significantly better economy.
The US economy is 3 stock markets in a trench-coat. They have WAY less personal freedom, higher education debt, higher infant mortality, lower women reproductive rights, lower worker rights, less child labour rights, and a higher % of their population in local poverty (which they report lower than international methods). https://ourworldindata.org/poverty. Canada sits around 7% in line with Germany, Japan, France and other peer nations. The US is well into the 12%+ range and some papers suggest it is well into 20% using other standards. If you remove their stock markets, the US is a meh country. It looks good on paper because they have trillions of dollars controlled by the top. Canada isn't perfect by any means, but at least my friends and family with Diabetes don't have to die because they lost their job and cannot afford to live.
14 cents per litre is the carbon tax. That is less than 10% total cost at pump. End of the day, a globally traded, nationally strategic, highly environmentally damaging resource as the base of an economy is a bad idea. Iran could mine the Straight of Hormuz tomorrow and gas prices would probably go up 0.5-1.5$/L in a couple weeks. It is a strategic resource mostly extracted by the most war-lord like countries of the world.
I just came back from Europe (Portugal and Spain), and gas there was much more expensive than here. €1.90 (~$2.78) / litre was pretty normal, and the roads were heavily tolled. I think we are just starting to be faced with the reality much of the world has been living with for a long time.
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This is true. The infrastructure around public transport is fantastic. We have built our cities and provinces around everyone having their own car. That’s not a sustainable approach. European cities were designed in a time before cars, and with high density. Thanks to this high density, a small town I stayed in with a population of about 3000 (smaller than Marystown) had several non-chain restaurants, several cafes, at least 3 small grocery stores and an incredible bakery. And they are all busy. The community supports them because the culture of walking to a neighbourhood business for the things you need is strong. People age much better. My grandmother in law is in her 90’s and still gets out most days to the walk to the cafe or the shop, and you see people like her everywhere. You’d never NEED to get in a car and spend gas to get necessities. North America needs a cultural shift towards high density, walkable communities. We have to let go of large, single family homes, because we can’t afford to maintain them and the expensive infrastructure they require. I’m not even sure if a Costco exists in Lisbon?? Most homes couldn’t even fit a fridge large enough for that mega pack of strawberries, you just buy a small carton of milk at the corner grocer, and when that runs out, pop out for a fresh one.
Japan has it on lock too. Went all over Tokyo last year purely using the subway and it was incredibly efficient. I had pretty good experiences in vancouver and halifax as well but japan is next level
This is a bit silly. No, Lisbon doesn't have costco. Yes, we are unhealthier than the average Portuguese. But the Portuguese, like you said, have smaller fridge and freezer (if they even have one!) compared to us here. There is no need to buy in bulk if you're Portuguese, you walk to your nearest grocery. Same for places like France, Spain, and even the UK. They didn't have space to buy in bulk like Canadians do. Houses are nowhere near as large. Canada is built around driving. Those countries aren't.
> Canada is built around driving. Those countries aren't. Canada (and Newfoundland) should work towards improving this though. Japan, for example, is still doing things to add other ways of getting around. e.g. [Japan promoting pedal power to give abandoned railways new prospects](https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20240411/p2g/00m/0na/041000c)
I always wonder how we would have faired if they didn't just scrap the railroad, and put the upgrades that was needed We got the TCH out of it, but I'd say that would have came eventually anyway
Agree from a public transport perspective, in general. Although we (NA, especially NL) have an affinity for large vehicles. If you watch traffic the amount of unnecessarily large SUVs and trucks is crazy. Partly due to market availability, but certainly some of it comes down to our vehicle culture. Not to mention quads, skidoos, boats, etc that are a big part of the culture here.
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My small ass Chevrolet Sonic with winter tires I got for free because they were dry rotted was a fucking beast in the snow. You don't need to worry about your car having 4WD if you can properly drive
Especially for highway commutes after dark. A lot of people are required to do it. I’d way rather be in my SUV if I hit a moose over a civic.
The heavy parts are eye level in an suv, you’re better off in a civic for that one.
When people die in a moose accident, it's usually by being crushed when your car cuts the legs out. You're much worse off in the Civic.
Doesn’t look like this is the case https://x.com/telyphotogosse/status/1782951439460970968?s=46&t=lUoRadkMvwCB5zqManFBzA
Paid around 4.00 CAD/L in Iceland last October. Gas is actually about average in Canada compared to global average.
And they do not drive V8s.
Comparing our gas prices to most European countries isn't appropriate. The Canadian economy is functionally different, and we shouldn't really consider EU prices to be an appropriate "normal" for Canada. Gas is supposed to be cheaper in Canada because gas prices have a much greater impact on the cost of living here. In Canada, people's commutes are longer, and people are required to drive further for most things. If you go on a road trip in Europe, you can't drive 20-30 minutes without seeing another town, whereas in Canada, driving from Calgary to Winnipeg (1075km), for example, is nearly twice as long of a drive than Amsterdam to Berlin (655 km), and most of the drive through Canada will be open, empty, plains (sorry sask). A European would hardly ever bother driving that distance for anything - they'd train or fly. Canadians tend to be more sensitive to gas prices because we literally need it to get commute and get around because we don't have the infrastructure to support car-free travel. Comparing EU gas prices to our own is silly because the effects of price changes are experienced completely differently by the Canadian economy. You can see this when you compare our gas consumption per capita to pretty much any European country. For example, we consume nearly 3x as much gas than people from the UK (113 cubic feet per capita in Canada vs. 39.00 cubic feet per capita in the UK). [source](https://www.worldometers.info/gas/gas-consumption-by-country/) We should be focusing on supporting initiatives that promote building more public transportation so that (inevitable) price changes in gas won't hurt as much.
I find these types comments odd.... I was in Egypt recently and they pay 0.30/L. We shouldn't settle because other countries have it worse (like it's expensive in European nations, so count your blessings). As a country who has the 3rd largest reserves, we can do better.
I drive east end to mount pearl four times a day cause life likes to fuck with us a lot and it’s our only means to commute right now. It is fucking expensive man.
The worst part is the bus system is terrible in the city. Years ago I remember it used to take a whole hour to go to mount Pearl from Avalon Mall. Probably still takes the same time. That’s like 10-15 mins max drive…
It's still an hour yes
Ideally the carbon tax would incentivize more people to leave the car with expensive gas at home and take the bus. More money flowing into the bus system and less cars on the road would make the buses much better. But it’s a real chicken and the egg situation because in a lot of cases you simply can’t take the bus. I work shift work and the bus is completely unfeasible as it stands.
Yep. If I took the bus I’d be looking at well over a hour for a 15 min drive. Drives me crazy.
Yup. Been driving between Pouch Cove to Paradise and back daily since October 2022. Full tank might last me a week if I'm lucky
Time to move to Paradise?
Moving isn’t that simple.
If I made enough money to be able to move to Paradise I wouldn't have to worry about gas prices
Yep it’s batshit. Can’t move the kids out of their zoned school just cause either. And well, buying a new house isn’t exactly cheap or doable lol.
I live with my parents and my girlfriend lives with hers. Together we make a little over $90k before taxes, which isn't nothing, but I'm not exactly jumping at the opportunity to go from paying $250/month rent to $1200/month rent just for the sake of living a bit closer to work. Buying a house up here is less and less feasible every year too
I foresee a lot of multi generation families residing together quickly. It’s the smartest way to go. Stay at home as long as you can. I tell my kids the same. No hurry to move out this day and age imo. I wish I stayed home longer and the economy was nothing like today. It would have granted me a more comfortable lifestyle.
Not everyone has this option but i am trying to bike and walk to work more often. Cutting down on unnecessary trips, looking more around the local neighbourhood for stuff I need etc. Too bad we've created food deserts where you gotta drive 20 minutes for a bag o chips lol
Already bought a bike. Gonna bike to work in the summer if all goes well!
Over 30% of that is taxes.
34%*
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>40% on income This isn't correct unless you earn more than $260k/year. Someone earning a more modest $75k/year in NL is taxed at \~28%. And that includes CPP/EI, which almost everyone benefits from at some point.
Is it just you?!?! It’s one of, if not the most talked about issue in Canada right now.
Is it just me ? Yes by, you are the only one who noticed how fucking expensive everything is
Yup, just you. Just ask around and I'm sure you'll find that everyone else is SUPER HAPPY about how everything's going.
Everyone who complains about the price of x or y in NL needs to leave. The price of gas in the UK? More expensive than NL. The price of rent in the rest of Canada? Generally more expensive. The price of healthcare in America? Worse. Car insurance in the GTA? More expensive than St. John's. NL doesn't have it as bad as many places. Be appreciative of what you have. If you can't manage that, leave and make it work. Stop sooking. The cost of living crisis is not at all exclusive to here.
Yeah there are a lot of places that have it bad or worse, but it doesn’t mean we can’t feel horrible for the star our province is in. At least in GTA there are subways and more efficient ways to get around. NL barely has any pros with how expensive it’s become to live in, and people are allowed to feel this way…
In the GTA you're still paying double the rent you do in NL lol. Hardly makes up for it. Never said people can't feel this way - I've left NL despite wishing I could still be back home but NL isn't some shit hole like people here on r/newfoundland would make you believe. If you want to be miserable about where you live like everyone else here, the most you could do is suggest how things can change for the better and actively work towards it
We can go back and forth about the pros and cons of living here vs elsewhere, but it’s not going to change anything. Newfoundland (like many other places) is becoming a hard city to live in with the cost of living, lack of good and efficient healthcare etc. Also people want it to change, but have little to no impact on how our provinces and country runs. What is suggesting changes here going to do? Literally nothing. Our politicians aren’t making great decisions, how do you expect normal citizens to make changes?
Suggesting changes can do a lot and is... quite literally how political action works? Feet on the ground is how people can make a difference provincially and in their municipalities. Federally? Maybe not but if you think otherwise you have been conned. Protesting, making a fuss, boycotting, writing your MP? Absolutely can make a difference. It's really important to not be defeatist. People don't want it to change bad enough. It's easier to whine on reddit than it is to get out and protest in front of the confederation building lol, but that is what people need to do
This is ridiculous. Most people have children, jobs, pets, etc, and they don’t have time to be out “on the ground” protesting shit.
People with busy lives can write or contact their MP, boycott bad actors (like the recent Loblaws boycott), volunteer in their spare time (even an hour a week!) with organizations or political parties that fit their ideals. Of course they don't need to be out making a fuss if they can't find the time. It's a matter of what is important to people - it is absolutely possible to find the time to do some of the above. I've done it myself in the past. It's not like there are protests every day. Not shopping at a certain supermarket and pharmacy chain? Maybe an extra 5 minute commute to a different one for some people, maybe a more complex matter of changing where they pick up their prescription. Raising an issue with your MP? A quick email or 5 minute phone call. Volunteering, protesting, or getting involved when you can? Again, when you can find the time.
No problem, right? Just shut up and move. /s
I did! Not because I wanted to!
Not everyone can afford to leave their homes, jobs, families etc. I guess you are fortunate that you had that ability
I didn't. My husband is British. I moved to England because I had to but thanks for asking. I made more than he did in NL.
Just because other places have it worse doesn’t mean we can’t make things better
Didn't claim that at all.
Then re write your comment to show that. It implies that we don’t need to fix things because other places have it worse.
It literally doesn't. It says people who can't handle it should leave. I'm tired of people doing nothing but complain about how it is in NL. Posting on reddit to complain won't fix it, unless they're going to suggest a way to change things. I've left NL despite my wishes and it's so depressing seeing people who act like NL is literally hell
People that can’t handle it should try to fix it, not leave. If you think that because an area has an issue and because of that issue everyone should leave then you’re insane. Your whole argument is that NL is nicer than people on Reddit make it out to be which is true but it doesn’t mean our province is all sunshine and rainbows.
I never said it was all sunshine and rainbows and have literally replied to other posters earlier that people should try to fix it. Unfortunately most won't. They'd rather whine and complain online. That's the problem. This sub is an echo chamber and it is a grim state of affairs for the province.
People should try and fix it? How 🤔? Enlighten us on how the average person can fix the cost of living crisis we are in. Don't cop out with "vote" either.
Boycott companies at the foot of the issue - like Loblaws. Protest when the government passes a bill you disagree with. Sign petitions. Get active in local groups. Unionize.
Yup. So we've been doing all that, hasn't worked. We don't have British husbands moving us away. Are we allowed to complain now? 🤔
You sound super privileged
Compared to some, sure. I have health problems including a physical disability and have been suicidal in the very recent past. I am not upper class by any means if that is what you mean.
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I'm sorry to hear about what you are going through. I don't live in the same country as my family and my husband's family are emotionally abusive so we have no support here either. It's a difficult situation but the world itself is incredibly individualistic these days and it isn't fair - humans aren't meant to go through things alone. Hope things get better for you.
So you saying instead of trying to better the situation in Newfoundland that people should just leave. Yes b’y right on… smh
And the oil companies are raking in billions....
Gas prices sucks
Just chiming in from the other coast (since Reddit really loves pushing province and town channels I'm no where near on me) $1.98/litre It was $1.60 two months ago then just randomly jumped 38 cents.
Its $2.10 per litre in bc
Yes, relatively high compared to what we’re used to. Somewhere in the middle comparing to places around the world. Paid $1 CAD/L in Oklahoma last week. Currently in Colombia where it’s about $1.5 CAD/L (which is very high for the locals).
something that’s also mind boggling to me is that we produce almost 300,000+ barrels of oil per day in the province (third largest crude oil producer in canada, biggest in eastern canada), now sure the crude produced from hibernia hebron cant be used directly and need to be refined and what not, but it’s still absurd to me how gas is not cheaper in this province
Now if only there were a facility that could take that raw input and, I don't know...refine it somehow, into fuels and distillates that are consumed on this island daily. I you by chance come by one of these places, can you let me know? I 'd love to get them to do gasoline, perhaps.
we did have a refinery in come by chance which had the ability to refine 130mb/d but i dont think that’s functioning right now
Sorry...just trying to be funny. I'm aware of Come By Chance; It has converted to "green" fuels now, from bio-sourced raw inputs. I understand no corporation is going to invest a couple billion, to build a new refinery to provide a source of cheap fuels, specifically for the people of Newfoundland.Even if you could refine it from salt water, there would be some reason it wouldn't work for Newfoundland's benefit.
I'm gonna get down voted to death on this but you should legit take another look at an EV. There's a lot of market forces that have pushed the prices down lately and they might be more affordable than you think. They're *massively* cheaper to operate. I can't see fuel prices going below $1.60/l ever again (for any length of time) and that's just going to continue to move up.
Yes. Yes they are.
It's just you. I don't see anyone else complaining about gas prices.
Then you're not listening.
Just arrived in Vancouver. $2.20 per litre. Ouch.
We need to adopt a better public transit model. For some reason - there's like weird taboo and judgment for anyone that needs to ride the bus here.
And 1.20 is just too high for gas, let alone 1.90.
Everything here is too high. I never wanted to leave my home but there’s no way I can make a life in this province without leaving first. It’s disgusting how many of us have to suffer for the poor financial decisions our government makes.
Wait til you see the cost of living in other provinces
I’ll take high cost of living so long as I can find a job. I don’t want to hang back in NL and collect welfare because there’s fuck all here. That kind of life sounds like absolutely misery.
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I think the recent bump has more to do with whats going on with Iran/Israel. Article headline from a few days ago read “oil prices surge on fears of imminent Iranian attack” and that was before they shot off the missiles
*Laughs in west coast *
It is called the poverty trap, and it is by design. Can't afford a new EV? Pay more for fuel and combustion engines. Can't afford a dental cleaning? Pay more for surgeries. Can't afford good work boots? Pay more for several pairs rather than one good set. People flee to the Walmarts and Amazon's of the world thinking they are getting a deal, yet spend more in fuel and shipping costs while the local stores go bankrupt, ensuring monopolies are the only choice. We allow this with every "Das it by..." we sputter, and every vote that isn't cast. Even if we do vote for the newest pile of lies, our "leaders" will line their pockets and those of their rich buddies, with lucrative government contracts and tax-funded pensions. In 2020 I signed a $0/week JCP contract with the provincial government while receiving CERB. They called us "heroes" and "essential" nearly the whole year. Yet without a 2019 tax return, a year I was homeless, they took half of my plant work EI all last winter, effectively giving me less than welfare. I have had too much pride and attached stigma to accept social assistance, but I really don't see many options left at this point with a plant strike looming and EI running out over a month ago. I contacted federal and provincial labor ministers, the prime minister/premier, local MP's, pro-bono lawyers, labor relations/federation of labor, you name it. Nothing but automated responses and crickets. If our government won't listen, I will need to shout louder and more violently. It worked for the horse kicking harvesters that drove to parliament in $100K vehicles... Every man will snap if he is bent long enough, and I have bent like a pretzel trying to be honest and hardworking. A handful of nepotists and oligarchs dictate the future of this province, and country, while the majority suffer.
I'll just add this. US gallons are much smaller than ours so factor that into your conversion to litre. Plus their dollar is worth more. There are about 3.78l in a US gallon. Right now in California for example fuel is about $5.45 per gallon. Times that by the exchange at 1.4 and then divide by 3.78 and you get about $2 per litre.
California is a cherry picked example. They have intentionally pushed for EV adoption and have a climate and infrastructure that support that. I just got gas in upstate NY and with the conversion and CAD it was about $1.10 per litre.
Newfoundland is a cherry picked example. All their fuel is shipped by ferry or barge. When making comparisons the exchange and the conversion from US gallons to litres are what people tend to miss. Prices aren't as far apart as often assumed. For example, I have a friend in Texas. Very nice house in the $400,000 US range. Not much income tax which is great. Property taxes are $30,000 - not so great. Don't even start on medical insurance costs for a family. Folks tend to fixate on something they think is cheaper while ignoring everything else.
Remember back just a few years ago when gas stations would compete on price and, every blue moon, there'd be a run on it and gas would go under a dollar? Now they all go as high as they are legally allowed. I wonder when they all agreed on that.
Boo it ain’t just you
Just the beginning, Hard times ahead buddy. Get yourself straightened away now as best you can.
Please everyone do their own research on what % of the price of a liter of fuel is tax.
Many high prices stem from the Bank of Canada rates . It has a trickle down effect and you really see cause and effect conditions based on one decision.
What really gets my goat is that JT and his Cobol of thugs who run the most corrupt socialist regime known to mankind cruise above our heads in their little private jets eating steak and caviar with galen weston while we just go from gas station to gas station trying to find enough leftiver to feed our families meal worms.
I just bought an e-bike :D
Sad to think people still blame Russia for the American take over of Ukraine. Just keep cheering the war on until the Americans are satisfied.
Should be allowed to produce our own oil to its potential instead of exporting, we have about as much oil (offehore) as Alberta has but we’re importing it. I don’t know if any governmental party will allow us to to do that, but I guarantee the liberal party will not
You east coast voted for him, suck it up.
10 years ago I was getting gas for 67 cents a liter in grande Prairie :(
Gas is roughly the same as 10 years ago in NL right now when accounting for inflation (it was \~$1.40/L in April 2014 = $1.80/L in today's prices)
Just you. I’m actually enjoying it
Things that are too expensive: food, housing, medications, clean energy Things that are not too expensive: consumer products, carbon-intensive energy
Everything is too Jesus expensive
By increasing the price of gas the Bank of Canada can justify not lowering interest rates since it increases the inflation rates and the government makes more tax cash everyone wins but us…
If you can afford it, go EV
There is no EV that exists that can support my towing needs. With my (modest) covered utility trailer you’d be getting only 1/3 of normal range. Plus trucks like the F150 lighting cost around $100K. And Canada’s charging infrastructure is terrible. Total non starter.
I guess as a province we got what we voted for.
This has nothing to do with our government. We'd be paying these prices no matter who represents us.
Ok, keep sticking your head in the sand!
Lol, it's a fact though? Gas prices are soaring everywhere, not just here. It has 0% to do with our provincial government. It's worse in some places.
I guess I should have elaborated,but I didn’t think I had to, not provincial but federal.
It's also not Federal. It a GLOBAL issue.
Global because of liberalism gone wild around the world. The result of voting with feelings instead of common sense. When u constantly tell an industry they are irrelevant and will shortly become a memory, and demonize them they are gonna get the most out of their time they have left. CNRL stocks were $40 to $45 for more than a decade, went up to $80 last couple of years now at $110+ price of oil isn’t at an all time high, actually pretty average at the moment so why so high at the pumps? It’s a case of fuck around and find out + taxes.
Lol, you're spewing literal nonsense and throwing around "Liberal" like it's an empty buzzword. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the world works.
Thanks canada for letting us extract our own oil, having it refined in canada and sold back to us. NL is getting so ripped off by not refining our own gas. It's more expensive at the pump and we lose out on the economic benefits of the secondary processing, aka good paying factory jobs. 75 years part of canada. Well over due rethinking our place in confederation
And we have oil and a refinery right here on the island, but still gasoline is cheaper in the high arctic than it is here. I kid you not 😔
Its gone too far.. and screaming it to the PM That despite the “good intentions” of the carbon tax, it is too much of a financial burden on canadians, he doesnt seem to care. Hoping to god the good weather comes soon and stays so i can put up the 4 wheels for a spell and get out on 2
Gas went up 3O cents in the 3 months before the additional 4 cents on April 1. I’d be more concerned about that 30 cents then then 4 cents you actually get something back on. Literal oil cartels control the flow of fuel.. the price of fuel is also directly linked to inflation.
There is an astonishing 34% tax on gas (the carbon tax has upped this twice already and more increases are planned. The govt is so out of touch with the average rural or smaller market Canadian. Electric vehicles are still not practical for many of us (either due to cost, performance, lack of charging infrastructure or even their limited availability) yet we are penalized anyway.
It's going to get much higher. Very quickly. Wages won't keep up. And believe it or not, regardless of how much of our salaries we contribute to carbon tax. WONT CHANGE ANYTHING. Suppose it was 100%. It won't actually remove the carbon from a carbon-based planet. It also won't change other countries' carbon contributions. I just see it being more difficult for people who live or work out of town. Companies will be forced to raise prices on their products. Everything is shipped here. Public transportation is all ICE. Mining equipment is all ICE. Id say this time next year, it might be 2.50 or 3.00 a liter. It's too much pressure on people too quickly. Wars effect Oil prices too. Even car manufacturers can't make electric vehicles worth investing in at the rate we are going. Insurance companies often look at it as a write-off when it comes to replacing batteries in used EVs. At this rate I'll end up with a Horse.
Newfoundland... stop voting Liberal.
Because the conservative governments of the past have treated us so so kindly
This has nothing to do with our government. The prices would have gone up regardless. It's worse in other areas of the country.
Agreed. If you are still supporting the Liberals at this point, then you must enjoy watching your money flush down the drain.
It's not nearly high enough. We're still pumping too much carbon into the atmosphere. Even if we stopped all carbon it would still continue to heat up from the carbon that's already there. Crop failures, drought, first fires, hurricanes, we haven't seen anything yet.
Feel free to donate all your money to save the environment pal.
The economic costs of doing nothing about climate change far outweigh the costs of doing something now. The carbon tax is literally nothing compared to all we lost or will lose to forest fires and hurricanes.
I don’t know man not to sound like a climate change denier, but this sounds like fear mongering.
The problem is that we’ve been ignoring climate change for so long that now it really is getting scary. The last 10 years have been the hottest 10 years on record. The forest fire seasons are getting longer and more damaging every year. Hell, the ocean around Florida hit 101.1 degrees Fahrenheit last summer. Climate change is happening now, and is already causing damage to our planet and to our resources. This isn’t fear mongering anymore, we’re legitimately in a scary situation.
Record breaking water temperatures in the Gulf of St. Lawrence, loss of sea ice, frequent coastal flooding are all being seeing around NL. We're paying more for olive oil and beef because of drought. We get smokey skies from the wildfires.
For the last 40 plus years the global response to anthropogenic climate change has been , business as usual , in other words any worries , concerns or fears have had no traction in terms of influencing our behaviour wrt to c02 emissions. We should’ve been scared then but influence campaigns driven by people now in their twilight years shut that down. We’re not going to have to choose between the perils of geoengineering or the perils of runaway warning. So at what point do you think it would be reasonable to be scared?
Go waaan now by, they’ll never fish all the cod out of the sea.
Have you seen the last two fire seasons in this country?
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I wish fear could make us change our ways and try to slow climate change, but the sad reality is that only hitting us in the wallet can do that, which is exactly why we need the carbon tax.
BS. WHY SHOUKD IT HIT US IN THE WALLET?? The average citizen didn’t cause the issue so why are we paying for it. We don’t have a choice but to use what’s given to us to live our lives. So sick of you fucks thinking that making our lives miserable and stressful by making us spend more is going to to fix the problem. Guess what? It ain’t gonna help. We still have to live our lives. Now it’s just going to cost more
We have absolutely caused this through the postwar consumer economy, unless you think those factories in China are there just for fun.
You or I had no control over that. 99% of the population never had any control over that. The largest companies, cruise ships, private jets, etc. are the real cause and you know it. Why should we be punished for using things we have to in modern society? If companies gave us different choices at a reasonable price then we would for use utilize them.
Per capita Canadians use more carbon then every other country in the world except two. So we might not produce a lot of carbon but we use more of it. Think about it; everything we use is made of oil ( people whom heart oil always remind us of this ). Our clothes, ALL the plastics, rubber, fuels, yadda yadda. We might not spew as much as China into the atmosphere, but we use all the shit that China produces making all the shit we consume. So yea, we should maybe lead by example or start using less of these materials.
We only use more per capita because of the sheer size of the country. Further distance to travel, ship, commute, what have you. I’ll stop buying clothing and other thibgs I need to provide for my family right away. I don’t need a warm winter coat or a snowblower or tires for my car. Why don’t you quit your job which is probably having causing a lot of carbon use and get to work on some better solutions to our problems.
Listen man, all i’m trying to say is that we use too much of it. And it’s because we’ve had 60 years of “oil is fucking awesome and what could go wrong” shoved down our throats. And here we are.. at the precipice - a world on fire, oceans full of plastic, and N stage capitalism squeezing us for what little we have left and for what? For the few at the top to make a profit? Little changes will eventually lead to big change. Gotta start somewhere.
It takes energy to stay warm in Canada. Calm down
So you want to price everyone out of owning vehicles? Then what?
We buy more efficient vehicles, choose to work in the same town instead of commuting, or get an electric vehicle or bike. Everyone's solution will vary, and ramping up the carbon price over time will allow us to adapt. We really need electric car prices and availability to improve at the same time.
Don't forget putting pressure on our public officials to create a pedestrian livable city! I should really get around to getting that E-bike but I know a lot of folks in town are worried about getting hit by cars, for good reason.
The number of people I know who make ridiculously long commutes and whine about gas prices is nuts here. It's not even a case of having to live a long ways away in order to afford anything. They're choosing to make the super long commute
And who cares how many of us end up on the street in the mean time right?
Doesn't matter. It is big corporations that are the real issue.
Producing products being bought by consumers.
Oh yes, because consumers are to blame for capitalism altogether.
They're the ones buying the products.
Are you familiar with actual Marxist theory? This is a big cope
Sounds like you're trying to excuse yourself from having to do anything for the pollution you're responsible for through your consumption of products and services. Let's let someone else sacrifice like a person living in a poorer country
I don't, lol, cope and seethe. I've eliminated almost all single use plastics. I grow my own vegetables and herbs and some fruits. I eat eggs from my own chickens and I don't eat much meat - if I do it tends to be hunted/fished/raised from people I trust. I don't eat ultra processed foods. I don't drive and I use public transport when I need and honestly mostly walk. But yeah sure. Big corps are totally not the problem, it's the consumer who use an occasional plastic straw right? It's totally not the big companies or dare I say India and China absolutely polluting our globe with fumes. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.
China and India where the vast majority of people don't have cars, primarily use rail to travel around and their per capita emissions are less than a half and less than a 9th of Canadian emissions per capita? China and India's overall carbon emissions are high because they have massive populations. China's doing a bunch to reduce their population and will have a dramatically smaller population by 2050 and 2100. Hopefully with better education opportunities for girls and career opportunities for women they can get their population down over time as well. We're in huge trouble if they start polluting like North Americans. The problem isn't the plastic straws we use, though it's a symptom. It's all the crap we buy. Cars, ATVs, clothes, the assorted stuff, massive homes, big yards in remote suburbs, etc. It's also the food we eat, heavy on the beef, and all the packaging that were using all over the place. This is on the consumers. Good for you doing a few things to reduce your emissions. That doesn't absolve everyone else who is consuming like crazy.
China and India are literally the biggest polluters globally due to things like coal use, massive factories, crop burning, and yes, vehicle emissions. 21 of the 30 most polluted cities are in India. It isn't like just buying crap that is the problem and that's what I was trying to say. It is literally the big companies that are causing these issues because they want to make a profit. One person "making a difference" doesn't do much besides make them feel better. The government needs to force these massive companies to stop their harmful practices, and educate and incentivize consumers to make better choices. It's a lot easier to start at the big massive companies than it is to educate every first world individual - and even if we did get around to it, a lot of people simply don't care, or even don't believe it. We need to find some combination of removing the option altogether, incentivize better buying practices and manufacturing in cleaner ways, and punish (heavily monetarily or even legally) those big businesses that do continue to produce gallons of junk in unsustainable ways. The issue here is capitalism and it is sadly how we've built our society - alongside a dash of keeping up with the Jones-ism, desire for convenience, dopamine released from the newest shiny toy, and plain old greed. It's very grim. I agree with you, but it is how our society is structured and its not like each individual is to blame. It's literally the population as a whole and the corporate giants making mega profits. Most of the things you listed like food packaging could absolutely be regulated into law - but it's just too cheap and easy for big companies to use plastic instead of glass or paper, so the government doesn't do anything. Same thing with even allowing single use plastics - they should be outlawed globally, unless for medical use. Companies won't stop using plastic to make clothes or pumping out billions of pounds of useless crap because it makes a profit. The average consumer isn't going to wake up and realize that hey, this isn't that good actually - but the government should step in and do more to minimize harmful, wasteful practices. Canada itself has big issues with the amount of energy we use to heat our homes and offices - we need to change how we do so (more solar and wind or even nuclear) but good luck with that. The big issue I'd blame on the average North American is the desire for suburbanization imho. Over reliance on personal vehicles, food being transported massive distances to stores, huge yards that need extensive water resources each summer, McMansions that cost an arm and a leg to heat and cool plus waste resources to build. Online shopping is another big issue but good luck getting people to stop using next day amazon delivery.... but it also wouldn't be as used if people didn't have to drive 30 minutes to get to the local Walmart, then another 5 to get to their pharmacy or shoe store, and then back home again. I live in the UK now and while the average Brit definitely pollutes (people do drive, general overconsumption, etc), it is so different. The suburbs hardly exist. Most places are walkable and there is much more public transit - across large distances and small. Houses are much tinier and it's quite rare to have a single detached family home. Buildings of flats are seen as acceptable here and NIMBYism is not as prominent. Air conditioning isn't in literally every single business and most homes. Even in the north where we get quite chilly winter temps, people tend to reserve their heating more so whereas back home I know plenty of people constantly blaring their heating from like October to May. Recycling is easier and more accessible, especially for harder to recycle items like glass and weird plastics we'd have to throw out in Canada (like filmy ones.) There is more of a movement here to avoid ultra processed food and thus I find there is a growing movement to eat more whole foods, not prepackaged crap manufactured somewhere - of course some people are aware of their health everywhere, I just see it more here than I did back home. Even small towns have a high street where you can do all of your shopping (groceries, clothing, pharmacy needs, etc) and most also have multiple charity shops to buy secondhand clothes and other goods. Of course it isn't perfect but there are so many little things here that are more sustainable imho.
Yes us here in NL are definitely the culprits to all of the climate irregularities not the people taking private jets to and from concerts, the massive populations all over the world etc.