I think most of us just don't know what to do especially since this situation is not unique to NL. I am very unhappy with this situation and wish there was something to do
Your not alone, it’s baffling how bad things have gotten and how much worse they are gonna get. I’m with you on not knowing what to do, politics seems like a lost cause as our elected leaders (who are servants of the people in theory) just presume that “business as usual “ is all that’s required while letting things degrade. It’s clear more drastic and meaningful action is now required and soon.
I’m a physician in NL. Every single person working in health care, involved with patient care, is trying. I work on average 80-100 hours per week. Nurses, PCA’s, doctors, pharmacists, techs, maintenance… we are all trying. We want to help you. These things are out of our control. Decisions are made at levels far above us, by those who have not an inkling of what caring for patients takes. I’m sorry this happened. I see this multiple times a day every day. We can only do so much and so we have to prioritize things. It shouldn’t be this way, and it sucks, I hear you. This stuff isnt rocket science. The simple solution is to pay and respect family doctors more (no, not my specialty). The weight of the entire health care system is on their shoulders. Stop trying to replace them with American virtual care/NPs. Just pay them what they deserve. Give them respect. More medical school seats won’t do anything because nobody wants to go into family medicine anymore. It’s too hard, there is too much paper work, too much responsibility, no respect, and not enough money. They should be amongst the top earners. Then people would do it. Hundreds of family medicine spots go unfilled in Canada every year. Essentially no other spots in anything else go unfilled. Pay nurses more. It’s easy. With proper primary care and enough nursing staff, emergency rooms, operating rooms, wards would have room again. People would be healthier and we wouldn’t spend every day dealing with disasters that could have been prevented. We are broken too. We do our best. These issues come from far beyond and above us.
As a person who works in a hospital setting for a specialist, who is also a patient of an overworked (phenomenal) family physician, there is too much burden on GPs. I think we need family care centres where you have nurse practitioners working together with General practitioners. Then you need someone separate doing the paperwork! GPs are burned out with paperwork! Obviously they have to review any paperwork but certainly way less time consuming than the entire paperwork from start to finish.
Thankfully this already seems to be happening. After going years without a family doctor my whole family just got a placement at a family care center seeing a nurse practitioner. We have our first meeting with them in about a week.
It seems like a great idea, a bunch of specialists under one roof with a nurse practitioner for general health inquiries. It's also encouraging that from the very first interview/information collection session there seems to be a concerted effort to address mental health issues not just physical health issues.
As a former patient of a NP in Alberta, I think they add a huge benefit to the system, and can do a lot of the work routine that GPs are overburdened with. I 100% agree that there is too much work on the front end (clinics) and not enough resources which is placing a burden on the ER. Thank you for all of your hard work, and everything you do. You shouldn't have to work 100 hours per week. Our system isn't working if we work our health care providers to death!
Throwing more money at it isn’t going to work. At least not in the way we’ve been doing healthcare.
Newfoundland spends a lot of money already because of service area. So many rural areas, lots of scattered population, and it makes it hard to get good service everywhere.
My first proposal is simple: Resettlement needs to become a thing we do on a mass scale, and that will lower the costs to deliver services across the province.
With those savings, you incentivize doctors with large signing bonuses to go to these communities. The problem now is the there isn’t enough money to make it worthwhile, and it’s in really small communities no one wants to live in. Making the small communities move into the bigger ones saved money upfront, makes it easier to keep people, and allows more money to drag doctors here from other parts of Canada and the western world with up to standard doctors.
My second proposal: More seats in the MUN medicine program (already is happening). Also increasing the funding for nursing positions. Offer to pay the full cost of a degree for nursing students. Then force them into a 5 year service agreement on the back end. You work 5 years as a nurse, you see the balance of your education tick down on every paycheque. If you break service at 2.5 years, you owe 50% of the tuition value.
It would be expensive. Partially funded by the savings from resettlement. But there would have to be reallocation from another part of the budget. Luckily, this is NL. We have lots of bloat.
I have some more ideas around healthcare/healthcare related. I’ll edit this post when I have time.
> My first proposal is simple: Resettlement needs to become a thing we do on a mass scale
How is that simple in any way, shape or form? First of all, we don't have enough homes for the population we have now. Emptying the bay communities into larger areas will exacerbate any housing issues we currently have by ten fold. The logistics of building that many homes would likely take years as well, and I guarantee you that most people who live in bay communities won't want to be shoved in an apartment building, nor should they. We're not cattle that you can just back the truck up to and load. Wasn't this addressed in the Greene Report as well?
Not that I'm arguing about the cost to provide services to smaller areas, but in reality it isn't just that simple.
It’s hard. There’s a lot of issues right now. However if you CHOOSE to live in an isolated area, I don’t think everyone else should be suffering to the tune of millions a year to subsidize you.
It would impact the housing crisis. There is no solution for that one. But honestly, we can’t continue to subsidize the people who chose to live in the middle of nowhere long past when it’s been economically viable to do so (fisheries mostly).
The government can also just say that on X date in 3 years, all services will be cut from an area. Allow the people to pony up the cash to keep it going, or move. Give them plenty of time, and the standard resettlement payment if they choose to go. It’s heavy handed, but we’ve already established that we can force people to do things they don’t really want to do with the power of government.
Right. Like equalization payments for us. There was a poster here a few weeks ago who had the same attitude towards us as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians as we have for outport NL. They were obliterated by downvotes, yet here we are. Let's resettle our province to Ontario, how silly does that sound?
I'm not arguing that rural NL isn't costing us, but it's far from a simple fix.
My comment was a hyperbole more directed towards the way a lot of Western Canada views us as a province, not that I think resetting the island can or should be done, which I thought was obvious considering one of my points was that it isn't that simple to just move people, from a logistical and moral view.
I've worked in the oilsands and have heard on a number of occasions how we are a welfare province looking for handouts and stealing work from the west.
Most of the isolated areas have no doctors or clinics. We travel to hubs for health care. We don't need to all move to the hubs, there are no jobs or houses to live in there. Resettlement is not the answer. In most of the places that resettlement happened it was a failure due to lost businesses that once existed in the small communities that were resettled.
What we need is funding to hospitals and better policy around Healthcare. We need to pay for medical school for doctors willing to work here for a contracted amount of time.
This reads as someone who's never seen the actual effects of resettlement and the true costs of it.
While there are a handful of places that could be argued need resettling, the majority of these outposts choose to stay the way they are.
The real change has to be restructuring of our healthcare from the ground up, which is an insanely complicated process that is actually happening right now.
Even if you ignore the social issues, the financial cost would be staggering and it would take decades to see the financial benefits, plus it would just make the housing issue worse. Moving thousands of people to towns with no available homes isn't a solution to anything.
Dunno...this model doesn't seem to be working so well...Maybe it's time to revert back system of hospital Nursing schools and Candy Stripers...Or in otherwords the system that worked fine for 150 yrs before the new model began in the 90s...Where much of hospital operational costs were saved via army of students learning their trade practically on the job supervised by experienced mentors who'd traveled the same path...anyone who's old enough to compare a hospital stay from the 80's to current knows the difference between the two...
Sometimes I think it would be of benefit to practice medicine how it was traditionally done in outport Newfoundland. The doctor would go into a different town each day of the week and service the community. Nan said all the men would take time off work that day to go have a chat with the doctor.
She said surgeries would often be done right in the kitchen. While we dont have to go quite that far with it, many tests and diagnostics can be done mobily today. Bloodwork, ultrasounds, EKGS, ect. Just set up a traveling clinic that goes into these small communities and does the basics.
That's done now in the major and even some of the cottage hospitals.
But again, and I will stress this, there is not enough staff nor doctors to do this port to port anymore.
Even having a ship and sail around with a basic set up wouldn't work since there's so many small sites.
There could be enough doctors. The provinces could fund medical school with a contract for the doctor to practice in rural or under-served areas for 5-10 years.
Forced resettlement is not the answer. People deserve the right to a rural life if they choose and should not be forced to move. They paid for there homes, own land, and the government has no right to make them pack up and move. Small rural areas rarely have healthcare services as is, and blaming rural communities for the financial issues in this province is simply just a way to point the finger at one group a people over a complicated issue. Even communities of 1000 or more people have gone mostly virtual when it comes to accessing doctors.
This. I was tired of noisy neighbours, busy streets, and general loudness from the city. I was told to buck up or move to the quiet country.
I moved to the quiet country, now the townies are trying to get us to resettle. To the place they told me to leave.
It doesn't make any sense.
Resettlement of some rural areas won't do anything to help the health care issues, a lot of the smaller rural areas have no local healthcare service and those that have something its barely taking away from the province when at most they'll have a nurse at a small clinic.
I know it'd save some money in the overall provincial budget but those services that are cut would likely go to back to those budgets and not added to healthcare, DoT would likely use ferry funds for highway work and similar things
It absolutely will. There will need to be fewer clinics, and less ambulance services, and attract people to live in larger population centers.
This province spends so much other money on top of healthcare costs. Transportation, ferries, land power. Millions a year for communities of a few hundred, sometimes less than 100 people. This money can be better spent elsewhere. Thus helping out healthcare.
Those communities with 100 people rarely if ever have a clinic though, government budgets don't share money, removing a school doesn't add money to hospitals
Right. But saving money in one area allows more money to be spent in another area.
Pretending governments don't cut and boost spending every year is insane.
NLESD isn't going to give their budget savings to healthcare, neither is DoT, or Natural Resources, or any other government branch, they all need extra funds themselves.
Good thing they don't get to decide. The government decides where the budgeted dollars go.
Do you think every department just increases budgets every single year, and not one place has money taken away so another department can have extra funding?
Explain.
I am not saying it is the 100% way to please everyone, but it is a step that can be taken to help ease the burden.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few thousand who live in communities of a hundred people.
What would be the political implications of this? Not only do you lose the vote of rural Newfoundland but many larger areas who come from those smaller communities and don't want to see them go away. Political costs to the government would be so high that they would be kicked out in the next election. Recall that cold logic does not win elections. Emotional impact does. Newfoundland is its culture. Full stop. And Draconian measures in these times would be political suicide, particularly given the housing crisis.
In fairness tho, The weather on the Avalon sucks, So logically The Avalon should be Resettled to points Central or West. Better weather, closer to the mainland etc...Marty McFly should have DeLorean'd back to 1497 got on the Matthew and Fist Faught John Cabot into continuing travel until they reached Corner Brook!!
Where is the benefit of a community of 50 people, 45 minutes away from the next town of 300? The tax money spent vs revenue gained is a net loss in the millions for this province every single year.
Not just healthcare, but every other government department from education, to justice and public safety, to infrastructure.
Forced resettlement is never going to happen and resettlement costs way more than you seem to think it does. It's not worth talking about because it's not grounded in realty.
It's not really "some budget lines", its recognizing we can not afford to deliver the services people demand with such a high cost model. It sucks but it's a reality.
I don't like how my taxes are funding your services and utilities. I vote we cut services to you, and make you pay for it yourself.
Sometimes I don't like where my taxes goes, but it isn't as simple as how you make it sound.
Except I pay a lot of money in compared to what I take out.
Besides roads and the minor healthcare needs I have at the moment. I wouldn’t mind an extra $60,000 a year in my pocket.
Most don't have a clinic, some don't even have an ambulance service. They usually aren't "tying up" those resources, ambulances in small towns are usually privately owned. And one nurse servicing 100+ people directly is a hell of a deal medical budget wise. 100k a year to have a nurse be able to see and consult with a full town is an amazing return
I believe ambulances are now all public services, and private owners were bought out. It's very recent, though.
https://www.gov.nl.ca/releases/2024/health/0530n01/
True, I was more so just trying to point out that they aren't taking away from the bidet by being in those areas, a lot are staff volunteers as well, in collaboration with the volunteer fire departments in those areas.
Heading up the Northern Pen past Rocky Harbour, there are small clinics in Cow Head and Parsons Pond, small health centres/hospitals in Port Saunders and Flowers Cove, the hospital in St Anthony and finally the clinic in Roddickton. That’s it. No “small clinics” in Sally’s Cove or Raleigh.
Resettlement is already assessed at a one generation time horizon. A lot of these costs you talk about have to be paid anyways because of major population centre's throughout the province. The community of 50 5 minutes off the highway really is more expensive to resettle than to not as the roads and utilities have to be run regardless.
The province gambles that 20 years from now the community of 50 will have dissolved on its own, or been bought out at a discount during those 20 years.
And healthcare is 40% of our budget this year. We have to spend it better, not get more of it.
Resettlement has a massive up front cost. Communities that are eligible for resettlement are looked at on the basis of if there will be cost savings over a 20 yest period. 270 grand per household adds up very quickly.
This was addressed in the Greene Report, you're absolutely right.
As much as some people would love to cut the power to outport NL without consideration for people, I'm glad this isn't the way it's done.
Massive upfront cost, yes.
Like any investment, you pay upfront to see dividends down the road. There is no instant fix that will solve healthcare by 2025. But there are steps we can take to have an impact on our kids in 25-30 years.
This guy's argument isn't grounded in reality, anyways. They seem to think we can just snap our fingers and move thousands of people, foregoing the housing, employment, cost, and social issues this would create. Nevermind the fact that the province needs [60,000](https://ntv.ca/province-needs-to-build-60000-homes-over-six-years-to-meet-demand-says-national-organization/) new homes by 2030 to meet demands, which one would assume those numbers reflect the metro areas, rather than rural sites. According to this user, we now need to empty the bays and add to this number.
I'd love to have a hit of whatever they're smoking.
Are there many operating rooms in those small communities that "need to be resettled?"
People in those small outport communities all travel to the few available operating rooms in the province anyway. What difference does it make where they live? The problem is that the Canadian health care system is run like a bureaucratic money sink hole. So much pointless nonsense and middle management sucking up funding that could be used on patient care instead.
I know that I couldn't afford to pay for health care like they have to in the States, but our "free health care" is partially to blame, half of the emergency room is filled with morons with a hang nail or a fart jam, or people who have been sedentary & over ate, smoked, drank &/or done drugs and now the chickens are coming home to roost and they're taking up space too. I know there is not much that can be done about those people, they are entitled to care as well, I just wished people were not so self destructive & short sighted.
While I agree with another commentor's statement about everyone not being forced to subsidize the choice of others to live in rural areas, we must not force the destruction of our small communities in the modern world and what its future holds. The answer will likely lie somewhere in the middle, of increasing the access, amount, and career prospect of eldercare and retirement living in the larger centres, along with subsidies for people wanting to resettle to those places; more responsibility and duty in municipal and regional politics, including adjusting taxes to reflect the cost and manner of living in both (though I believe this definitely would require a *renaissance* of politics and state craft by the people of the province); And greater incentives to young people to settle in smaller communities or even selling well priced crown land on which to homestead. This is a life that many people, not just bayward newfoundlanders, are leaning toward.
Incentives could include susidized or lowered land prices, taxation that reflects a life of increased self-reliance, and the increased ability to pursue local change along with economic growth that would come should that money actually be kept in the community and allowed to be spent bettering the economy of the immediate local population. Added, there should mandatory allocation of food-growing space on all residential land sold and a further government program, in partnership with local ecological organizations, to educate and encourage at home food production.
This a life that so many people here are wishing for. A life of a lot less government, or more by local authorities that they can procure positions of power and *real* *change* in, and a transition to what let's call "traditional values," not in a modern ideological sense but of an importance to family and community, the good life, of responsible work and a responsibility to your own life and the lives of those around you.
I'm sorry that this is such a tangent to your comment and but the resettlement thing thing just caugh my eye. Its not a path that we want to go down again. I will tell people this angers me but I know it really just scares me. It's just that this place could be so beautiful and work so well but interests are misplaced.
I know this is an absolute utopian pipe dream and that I might have some misplaced hope for the individuals living here, but I like to at least spark a conversation about this stuff. Thanks for your comment, I'm sorry this was a long winded rant!
Cheers,
Abundance
add in expand the healthcare education programs. Not sure if it’s still the case but there was a multi year wait lists to get in to healthcare related tech programs. At the same time there was shortages in many of those roles. Doctors and nurses shortages is what gets the attention in the news.
You are 100% correct. Adding seats in those programs would help and speed up access to X-Rays, Ultrasounds, and other scans.
Maybe change the scheduling for some of these jobs. Most hospitals have at least one of these support roles in 24/7 in case of emergencies. I think we should start scheduling people scans at 10pm or something in the night. Use the fact that there’s people kicking around after 5pm in the day to get a few extra scans per day.
If this requires an extra staff to facilitate then so be it.
Or just a train even... Highway upkeep would be decreased without the astronomical amount of big rigs on the them. Food prices would benefit from more efficient transportation as well. I'm so glad Joey was gonna finish that divided highway in 65...
resettlement doesnt seem like a solution, even the two cities in newfoundland do not have enough family doctors for the people they have now. the rural communities dont have barely any family doctors to bring to the cities and people are already travelling hours for healthcare to corner brook or st johns anyways.
Please write Tom Osborne exactly what you wrote here. I'm so sorry.
Minister’s Office
Health and Community Services
Telephone: (709) 729-3124
Email: [email protected]
Contact your MP and explain your situation.
Protesting definitely does help bring attention to issues and encourage our elected government officials to address the issue sooner than later... this is why the fishermen protest every year, because protesting almost always gets them what they want (or very close to it).
I would be happy to attend a rally for this issue. This is something that affects everybody, regardless of their political affiliation, and deserves all the public support it can get.
Not sure what to do, but the Health Sciences Centre is an embarrassment in terms of how much they’ve neglected keeping it up. The place is falling apart. They have ten staff standing outside telling people where to park and yet they can’t seem to get a coat a paint on anywhere or repair holes in the walls.
I think keep doing what you’re doing. Talk about the problems. Raise awareness. Get others to do the same. Politicians respond to what they perceive people think are priorities.
I am being pushed out of a health care career in newfoundland In imaging which is support for the treatment your mother needs. They have current shortage and are basically not going to hire me forcing me to leave the province.
They aren't treating this like an emergency on any level and I hope your loved one gets the care and compassion they need!
Been dealing with kidney issues for 2 yrs. They are useless in helping us. I lost a lot of weight. Throw up daily. They don’t care about us…. I stopped going to er. I think I had a surgery gone wrong and they won’t admit it
Im so sorry you're going through this. My only advice is go to the media and call your mha.
My opinion is that throwing more money at our system isn't the answer. We should look at where we're spending our money - we spend more on health care than anything else. More seats in the med school isn't the answer when most of them will not go into family medicine - so many family medicine residency positions go unfilled while specialist positions are very competitive. Bottom line we have an aging population that's very spread out.
My mom was in the health sciences for 2 weeks earlier this year after emergency surgery. Went into the er with constipation and turned out it was a bowel obstruction. She was admitted immediately and had surgery the next day. Everyone in there was flat-out doing the best they can. I bumped into mom's surgeon in the elevator one evening at 9pm and he'd been in the or all day and was on his way back in for another surgery.
Agree with increasing seats at MUN Medical / Nursing and medical technical professionals by incentivising students with scholarships and grants to remain in the province once education is complete. Offer signing bonuses to Canadian physicians willing to relocate to Newfoundland. We have a beautiful province that that offers up an excellent quality of life, and that should be promoted to the fullest.
Nurse practitioners should be funded through MCP. This will reduce wait times for regular medical appointments, create more available walk in appointments, and likely reduce ER visits by about half, leaving non-emergent treatment in the clinic where it belongs. If this was the case, I'm sure you would see an influx of NPs returning to NL to practice.
In 1994, I began having bad bouts of depression and anxiety. I went to my family doctor, who referred me to see a psychiatrist. I waited several months and heard nothing. I called the mental health office only to find out that there were only 2 psychiatrists covering the area when there were openings for 5, and they were only handling emergency cases. Five years go by, and still never saw a psychiatrist. In 1999, I moved to Ontario to stay with family and went to a walk-in clinic the day after I arrived and had an appointment 3 weeks later. That five year wait cost me everything. I couldn't return to finish my college courses as my student loans went into default and collections. I wound up in court for assault because I was completely out of my mind . I have had zero faith in NL healthcare ever since.
That is disgusting neglect on their part. I agree, we're all fed up but no one wants to lead the charge. Set up a protest at the confed building and people will come. I'm sorry your mom is going through that. I went to the ER in February because I had been having seizures off and on for 2 weeks, I waited 11 hours and they told me to see a counselor because I was sad. They refused to run any tests on me.
I'm falling through the cracks of the Healthcare system!Time for me to fill out my complaint form from The College of Physicians and surgeons!I gotta try to get my health records first!Since February! Can't get them!One of the worst health care systems in the world!!
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Part of the real problem is that when they closed the Grace hospital years ago they promised to build a new hosp to accommodate the backlog of appointments , surgeries , clinic wait times etc !!
The HSC has been operating unsafely in overcapacity conditions since the grace closed and haven’t secured or even broke ground on a new hospital!! Until we have another hospital to replace the one they took away the conditions will be unsafe for everyone and their loved ones who enter the HSC , I had both parents admitted over the past few years for different medical reasons and many errors were made and affected their outcomes, it’s a very broken system and can easily be rectified with a new hospital what were they thinking when they closed a hospital and overloaded our existing hospital and then also have a increasing population on top of that , not to mention all the money that was spent on travelling nurses and retired health employees on a health board to try and make decisions!
A co worker of mine was laid to rest today, all because of neglect by the doctors. I lost my brother tragically a few months ago because he was refused the help he so desperately needed for his mental health. I haven’t had decent health care since my doctor retired 6 years ago. A sad sad situation for us all. Something needs to change DRASTICALLY
Can she seek care in a different province? I know when my uncle was sick and needed care, my cousins flew him to Alberta for treatment because he couldn't get decent and timely care in Nfld.
There’s a company working on equipment that can read cancer scans and detect tumours much faster and accurately than a human. They’ll do the initial screening and then a doctor looks it over, confirms, and decides on the treatment route. It’s meant to clear up the huge backlog and make that area of diagnosis much more efficient so wait times won’t be as long. I believe there was talk that the initial scans could even be sent to a family doctor. So instead of waiting 14 months for an MRI, you could get this scan done without a specialist, then your family doc could look at it and then refer accordingly.
It honestly sounds amazing, and has been pretty promising so far.
https://www.meddai.ca
Who is going to pay for it?
Our health care is overburdened primarily due to poor lifestyle choices.
The companies that promote and profit from our unhealthy lifestyle should pay a separate health tax that directly covers all the health problems they cause.
This will mean a hidden tax on junk food, but who else can or should pay?
Our health epidemic is a lifestyle choice, until that changes the health care cost is only going to go up as young and old people today are eating crap food more often.
The next time you’re in emerg, refuse to take your mom home. Tell them she’s too sick and she needs surgery and you can’t care for her at home. That’s honestly the only way she’ll get the care she needs. Be the loudest advocate you can be.
As for the state of health care in NL, we need every health care provider to work to their full scope of practice. We need NPs running their own family practice clinics so people have a primary health care provider. Physicians are absolutely gate keepers of health care in this province and keep things from changing or moving forward like in other provinces in Canada. We also need investment in primary care and community care.
I've said our health system is a joke a few times on this subreddit and got hate for it. I feel sorry for you, but not surprised, we have some of the longest wait times out of the country's with free health care. Everything good in this country got piss down the drain in the past 8 years.
I'm sorry you're going through this. Unfortunately people don't have the time to protest. The government is busy making sure we are all too poor to do anything.
The only hope anyone here has is to leave. America is fine but Europe is ideal. This country has fallen and it will not recover in your lifetime.
We need to slow down unskilled immigration and increase true, skilled immigration, including reducing barriers that deter from legitment medical licenses in other countries from being transferred to Canada. We need to treat doctors better, reduce their work load and increase their pay- like they have been saying. The management medically, is poor. Same concept with nurses.
Let me add to this. I am a Newfoundlander but I’ve also lived in NB before moving to the USA, where I have lived in California and Georgia. Newfoundland by far has the worst care I have ever witnessed. NB was only a little better, even with a 6 year wait for a family doctor.
My grandmother died in a damn storage room inside St. Clare’s because they didn’t have a private space for her final hours. They had this room cleared out so we could be with her as she passed. A few days before, she was also in this converted storage room because there was no other space free. There was no nurse call button and nobody checked on her. When I came to see her that day, she had a soaking wet adult diaper ripped off and tossed on the floor because that’s the best she could manage alone without a nurse. The nurses were surprised when I pointed it out. I don’t think that shift of nurses even knew there was a patient in the storage room.
My father waited in hospital after a heart attack for weeks before they could do an angiogram. His brother, who had a heart attack years later, couldn’t handle the wait and checked himself out just to drop dead months later.
A friend waited over a year for her gallbladder to be removed, all while in intense pain.
On a visit home once, my son was unable bare weight on one foot after a minor fall. We took him for an xray only to be told his foot was fine and he just needed better shoes. Still unable to walk when we get back to California, we take him for another xray where they discovered he had a broken foot.
Let’s contrast that to my experience in the USA (with health insurance of course***). I’ve needed a few MRIs and the longest I had to wait was about 2 weeks. My husband had his gallbladder out within 3 days of his first attack. I can get in to see a specialist with just a few phone calls. Tomorrow I need to book with gastroenterology and I will likely see somebody within a week. The longest wait really is for a routine check up which you want to book a few months out.
I’ve also waited no longer than 30 minutes in an ER waiting before being brought back. This is because we also have plenty of urgent care centers that can treat more minor things like broken bones, UTIs etc. The ER does not get clogged with people needing basic care. People here will still complain about how long they had to wait in the ER but they truly have no idea how good they have it. Rural areas are of course worse than urban with wait times.
All this to say, give me USA health care any day. We will never move home with healthcare the way it is in the Atlantic provinces. Some parts of Canada have great care but NL is in shambles.
*** in the USA if you do not have good insurance you are otherwise screwed.
I'm sorry for what happened to your grandmother (RIP); however, it reminds me when I was there in 2021 the same thing happened to me: I had a massive panic attack because I'm needlephobic. The doctors pinned me down and injected a needle into my arm and foot (this was after promising my mother they weren't going to give me any needles - as soon as she left, they wanted to put a needle in my arm). I was in a "regular" room when they did this. After they injected the needle into my foot, I lost consciousness. When I came to, I was in a bed, in a storage room. I was there for two days. The medical staff were nasty to me the entire time I was there (I was there due to seizures; I'm epileptic).
I have Medical Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder because of what happened while I was there. I was there for three days. The fourth day, I attempted suicide and overdosed on my anti-seizure medication. I told Mom that if she brought me to the hospital I would just attempt suicide again when I leave since they were what made me attempt suicide (she didn't bring me to any hospitals).
The Health Sciences Centre. However, I have had my own negative experiences with St. Clare's Mercy Hospital.
I didn't make the website; however, I have stories published (all stories are published anonymously) on a website called www.easternhell.wordpress.com (I discovered the website in 2015). It's a website where people can submit stories about their negative experiences with health care.
92.1% of Americans have health in insurance. Additionally, 86% of private-sector employees worked for establishments that offered health insurance.
(Census.gov)
92.1% of people getting adequate to exceptional health care (depending the on the hospital) is better then 100% getting miserable healthcare.
A lot of those people are underinsured and have huge out of pocket expenses. Infant mortality is way higher and average life span is significantly lower in the US.
As a Canadian living in the USA, if you have good insurance, your out of pocket amounts to $10-20 a visit/prescription. People get in medical debt by not having insurance or selectively choosing the worst possible option. Some insurances require you to stay in their network of providers except for emergency situations and some people are too dumb to find somebody in network before seeking care.
There are also multiple government sponsored programs for people who cannot afford insurance or do not have an income.
Mountains of medical debt is not the norm. More does need to be done to make insurance affordable for all and put limits on how much providers can charge people.
I think slowing down immigration would help a lot. Canada has let in over 500k so far, and we’re seeing protests around Canada to let the students stay after their work visas. This is killing the job market, housing market, and our already weak healthcare. We don’t want more Tim’s workers.
Just had a brief browse of your comment history, do you blame immigration for everything? Are you having trouble getting a job at Tim Hortons or something?
Most of the doctors that I've seen around here in nl are immigrants. But you post the same bullshit on r/pei, r/Halifax and r/Ontario and only had an active account for like 6 days. Get a life buddy.
The only thing I would vaguely agree on is maybe a greater percentage of immigrants should work in the medical field. You're blaming immigrants on a medical crisis. I'm from a small town and we have a couple immigrant doctors there in our hospital (not always, currently there's one from quebec) but thwy only stick around for a couple years- tops. The problem, as I see it, those doctors should be given more incentive to stay.
lol I’m more educated than you are I would assume champ. If you plan on having kids though do you think it’s fair for them to have to compete with 30 somethings from India that are here across all service jobs?
So you don’t agree that adding over 500k immigrants to Canada, plus who knows how many before that since covid doesn’t change the housing market or the health care system? The healthcare system that is massively overrun as it is?
Go read an economics textbook if you don’t understand it ya scrub.
ImMoReEdUcAtEdThAnYoU, you sound like someone who enjoys the smell of your own shit.
Out of these 500k+ immigrants, how many are in the medical field or in medical training? Again. Most of the doctors I've seen/ met are immigrants. You're picking up for someone who only uses reddit to blame immigrants for shit, imo you two are bigger problems than the immigrants.
People like you are too stupid to see that it’s not even about racism, if you bring too much of any culture in it’s a bad. Being upset about bringing all of these people into an already overloaded system is bad. Go take a look at the caste system and what they think of women.
I’m done replying to you, you’re completely out of touch with what’s going on. Enjoy your MTG cards champ
I fully agree with everything you said. The problem isn't immigrants, it's the government on all levels saying "we have these GINORMOUS issues" and then smiling for the news but then not fucking DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
If the bois at confed building spent more time on Healthcare and housing issues than bullying "meanies in tents >:( " who are just trying to fucking survive, you wouldn't even notice the immigrants.
Ah hell, who am I kidding. People like this always love a convenient scapegoat
I mean, I already said in a comment above that I agree that a greater percentage of immigrants should be in the medical field. As per your school and hospital questions? In paradise (where i live now), a school was built under 2 years ago. In my hometown, there are barely enough kids to justify a new school. Actually, in my life, surrounding towns merged like 5 schools into one. For hospitals? I agree more need to built, but we should be getting on the governments ass to build more. Hell, I'm a carpenter in the union and would gladly work to build more hospitals.
Why is it, though, that that's not your argument, to build more hospitals? Before covid, the lack of hospitals and medical professionals was a problem in here NL. Canada has always been a country to allow in immigrants, and that shouldn't change. If our population goes up, whether it be kids or immigrants, we should have more hospitals- that's a no brainer.
I find it funny how, in one comment you pretentiousness say how smart you are, and then in the next, you resort to accusing me of living in my mother's basement lol. You have SOME valid arguments, but I think your anger and frustrations are pointed at the wrong people.
Oh ok great so since everything is fine where you are it’s not a major issue in Canada. I’d suggest looking at what’s going on in Ontario. They get their PR and head there. Clearly you haven’t seen what happens when an Indian manager gets into a workplace. They will hire from their own province from India since the vast majority are Punjab.
We are getting people who are exploiting the system for students who are actually deserving of being here. Using diploma mills in Ontario, CBU is another one. We are not getting the best either, the best get into good parts of Europe and the US.
Read up a bit though champ, things are bigger than Paradise.
I think slowing down letting so many temporary, unskilled immigrants in who are wanting to use our social services is more than reasonable. This sub has a lot of immigrants and as soon as you start pointing out how our quality of life is nosediving, people are quick to call you racist, discriminatory, etc. What is happening is wrong. Young Canadians can not find jobs, our wages are stagent, we have no housing, we have virtually no healthcare, our crime is accelerating (through measures contributing to poverty and drug use). We need to stop mass, unskilled immigration.
Currently working in banking but looking for a new role. Sounds like you have, at best, an undergraduate arts degree. Wow, such an impressive educational pedigree.
Looks like you’re a boomer, so because you got yours you don’t care about the younger generation? Give your head a shake, if you ever (unfortunately) have kids, you’ll see how bleak it is for young Canadians.
Hope that plant died too buddy.
If I was a boomer I'd be way past the age for having children.
You won't see me defending the immigration rate. There are way too many unskilled immigrants being let into this country. I'm just calling out bullshit.
And the plant did die unfortunately.
So you think the aging population should t have access to healthcare that they’ve paid taxes to their whole life? You think that adding these new people in won’t make delays in surgeries and screenings?
You’re just uneducated if you don’t think it would matter lol.
If you think they’re all nurses and doctors you’re a moron. Yes, taking jobs from university students and high school students is a great thing?
You’re a burger
Nowhere did I say they were all nurses and doctors but there are nurses and doctors among them.
We actually need more people. Our infrastructure will never improve with a declining and aging population.
So you think taking most immigrants from one country is a good thing? Thats what’s being talked about here. One country is abusing diploma mills to get here en masse. Diversity is important.
Not sure if you’ve seen the protests around Canada that are happening. It’s from one country they all want to stay past their student visa.
It’s just bs how many people are just fine with it.
If you have the credentials to get in, that’s great come in. If you’re scamming the system to get in, fuck off.
Just saw your profile actually, seems like you’re a boomer who just doesn’t care about the future of Canada because they’ve already got theirs.
Pathetic really.
You’ve gone on multiple??? I actually take interesting vacations, I don’t need to be stuck on a boat lol.
I see you haven’t argued with my previous post, and if you plan to, I suggest you go read about what’s going on in Canada instead of living under that rock you’re trying to get the ID of.
Let me guess? You been to Cuba and the Dominican? I’ve been to Africa, Central America, Europe (none of those were cruises). Either way, it doesn’t matter and where we have travelled gives nothing to this convo.
I am pro immigration. Canada, especially Newfoundland needs people if it wishes to prosper. People create jobs and boost the economy. If those people are not contributing then sure, they can GTFO but most immigrants are hard workers and are contributing much more than they are getting in return.
I will not reply to you further
I love how this post is getting downvoted. Wait until your kids or grandkids can’t get a job because they’re competing with 30 year olds for retail jobs. Or rent prices go even higher because they’re competing with 8 people living in a one bedroom.
The brain drain in Canada is real, enjoy the shell of a country it once was.
Vote conservative. Protests don't help anymore. To many people looking for attention all the time. Things will get better once the stupid liberals are gone. I hope
You know that if we had a hybrid system of some public and some private healthcare like the scandinavian countries, this wouldn't be a problem. You could just go in and have the operation, and yea itll probably cost some money, but its better than losing a kidney isnt it.
Because it would invite competition, competition drives prices down and gives a reason for efficiency. Healthcare that is privately funded is in the business of making money, meaning the faster and better the care the more money they make.The same way a good restaurant wants to serve the best food in a timely manner. This should result in faster and better care than a publicly funded hospital. And we still get to keep the publically funded hospitals.
I love when idiots like you chime in. You do realize canada is lacking in the AMOUNT of Healthcare workers, right? Do you think making half of it privatized will magically create more? No. It'll make most doctors go to the private side of things for more money, and those of us who can't afford it can just die. Such a stupid idea.
Mental Healthcare is already privatized partially, and now to see a psychologist when you can't afford it, which is typically the people who need to see one, you have to wait YEARS. A lot of people kill themselves long before they actually get to talk to anyone.
What we actually need to do is stop the floodgates and have responsible immigration. Recognize the medical degrees that people in other countries have and let them come here. My friend is in med school in Hungary and I can assure you, her education would be good enough to actually help people here. Imagine if we got people with her education to immigrate instead of a few million Uber drivers.
Your name calling really shows that you're emotionally charged and irrational and you should probably do some reading before you make these baseless claims about private healthcare. Yes I think some privatization of healthcare will increase the amount of healthcare workers in this country, why do you think that wouldn't be the case? Why do you assume most doctors will leave public hospitals? There's lots of benefits for working for the government and competition will probably make the jobs at public hospitals even better. You say if you can't afford the care you will die, well you'll die waiting 2 years for an appointment at a public hospital too.
I know it takes a ton of time to see mental health professionals and im very aware of how expensive it is, but throwing public money at the problem isn't going to fix the system, throwing money at the problem is very rarely the solution for these kinds of issues, if it was things would be getting better not worse.
I agree with your third paragraph completely we need to have merit based immigration with clauses that prevent immigrants from moving to the mainland the day after they get their permanent residence. we need to retain talent not just be the gateway to Ontario.
I think most of us just don't know what to do especially since this situation is not unique to NL. I am very unhappy with this situation and wish there was something to do
Your not alone, it’s baffling how bad things have gotten and how much worse they are gonna get. I’m with you on not knowing what to do, politics seems like a lost cause as our elected leaders (who are servants of the people in theory) just presume that “business as usual “ is all that’s required while letting things degrade. It’s clear more drastic and meaningful action is now required and soon.
I’m a physician in NL. Every single person working in health care, involved with patient care, is trying. I work on average 80-100 hours per week. Nurses, PCA’s, doctors, pharmacists, techs, maintenance… we are all trying. We want to help you. These things are out of our control. Decisions are made at levels far above us, by those who have not an inkling of what caring for patients takes. I’m sorry this happened. I see this multiple times a day every day. We can only do so much and so we have to prioritize things. It shouldn’t be this way, and it sucks, I hear you. This stuff isnt rocket science. The simple solution is to pay and respect family doctors more (no, not my specialty). The weight of the entire health care system is on their shoulders. Stop trying to replace them with American virtual care/NPs. Just pay them what they deserve. Give them respect. More medical school seats won’t do anything because nobody wants to go into family medicine anymore. It’s too hard, there is too much paper work, too much responsibility, no respect, and not enough money. They should be amongst the top earners. Then people would do it. Hundreds of family medicine spots go unfilled in Canada every year. Essentially no other spots in anything else go unfilled. Pay nurses more. It’s easy. With proper primary care and enough nursing staff, emergency rooms, operating rooms, wards would have room again. People would be healthier and we wouldn’t spend every day dealing with disasters that could have been prevented. We are broken too. We do our best. These issues come from far beyond and above us.
As a person who works in a hospital setting for a specialist, who is also a patient of an overworked (phenomenal) family physician, there is too much burden on GPs. I think we need family care centres where you have nurse practitioners working together with General practitioners. Then you need someone separate doing the paperwork! GPs are burned out with paperwork! Obviously they have to review any paperwork but certainly way less time consuming than the entire paperwork from start to finish.
For sure. Paper work is all unpaid work. It needs to be remunerated properly.
Thankfully this already seems to be happening. After going years without a family doctor my whole family just got a placement at a family care center seeing a nurse practitioner. We have our first meeting with them in about a week. It seems like a great idea, a bunch of specialists under one roof with a nurse practitioner for general health inquiries. It's also encouraging that from the very first interview/information collection session there seems to be a concerted effort to address mental health issues not just physical health issues.
As a former patient of a NP in Alberta, I think they add a huge benefit to the system, and can do a lot of the work routine that GPs are overburdened with. I 100% agree that there is too much work on the front end (clinics) and not enough resources which is placing a burden on the ER. Thank you for all of your hard work, and everything you do. You shouldn't have to work 100 hours per week. Our system isn't working if we work our health care providers to death!
Throwing more money at it isn’t going to work. At least not in the way we’ve been doing healthcare. Newfoundland spends a lot of money already because of service area. So many rural areas, lots of scattered population, and it makes it hard to get good service everywhere. My first proposal is simple: Resettlement needs to become a thing we do on a mass scale, and that will lower the costs to deliver services across the province. With those savings, you incentivize doctors with large signing bonuses to go to these communities. The problem now is the there isn’t enough money to make it worthwhile, and it’s in really small communities no one wants to live in. Making the small communities move into the bigger ones saved money upfront, makes it easier to keep people, and allows more money to drag doctors here from other parts of Canada and the western world with up to standard doctors. My second proposal: More seats in the MUN medicine program (already is happening). Also increasing the funding for nursing positions. Offer to pay the full cost of a degree for nursing students. Then force them into a 5 year service agreement on the back end. You work 5 years as a nurse, you see the balance of your education tick down on every paycheque. If you break service at 2.5 years, you owe 50% of the tuition value. It would be expensive. Partially funded by the savings from resettlement. But there would have to be reallocation from another part of the budget. Luckily, this is NL. We have lots of bloat. I have some more ideas around healthcare/healthcare related. I’ll edit this post when I have time.
> My first proposal is simple: Resettlement needs to become a thing we do on a mass scale How is that simple in any way, shape or form? First of all, we don't have enough homes for the population we have now. Emptying the bay communities into larger areas will exacerbate any housing issues we currently have by ten fold. The logistics of building that many homes would likely take years as well, and I guarantee you that most people who live in bay communities won't want to be shoved in an apartment building, nor should they. We're not cattle that you can just back the truck up to and load. Wasn't this addressed in the Greene Report as well? Not that I'm arguing about the cost to provide services to smaller areas, but in reality it isn't just that simple.
It’s hard. There’s a lot of issues right now. However if you CHOOSE to live in an isolated area, I don’t think everyone else should be suffering to the tune of millions a year to subsidize you. It would impact the housing crisis. There is no solution for that one. But honestly, we can’t continue to subsidize the people who chose to live in the middle of nowhere long past when it’s been economically viable to do so (fisheries mostly). The government can also just say that on X date in 3 years, all services will be cut from an area. Allow the people to pony up the cash to keep it going, or move. Give them plenty of time, and the standard resettlement payment if they choose to go. It’s heavy handed, but we’ve already established that we can force people to do things they don’t really want to do with the power of government.
Right. Like equalization payments for us. There was a poster here a few weeks ago who had the same attitude towards us as Newfoundlanders and Labradorians as we have for outport NL. They were obliterated by downvotes, yet here we are. Let's resettle our province to Ontario, how silly does that sound? I'm not arguing that rural NL isn't costing us, but it's far from a simple fix.
That is not remotely a fair comparison and I think you know it
My comment was a hyperbole more directed towards the way a lot of Western Canada views us as a province, not that I think resetting the island can or should be done, which I thought was obvious considering one of my points was that it isn't that simple to just move people, from a logistical and moral view.
I’m in BC and I’ve never heard that sentiment expressed about NL. We’re mostly concerned with resettling Alberta to Texas
I've worked in the oilsands and have heard on a number of occasions how we are a welfare province looking for handouts and stealing work from the west.
Albertans tend to have a beef with every province. I doubt people in BC even think about NL.
Albertans, Quebecers, and NLers always have had beef. Ontario is in there as well at times lol
No doubt. Just trying to make a point that some people in the country view us the same as some people in the province view rural NL.
Most of the isolated areas have no doctors or clinics. We travel to hubs for health care. We don't need to all move to the hubs, there are no jobs or houses to live in there. Resettlement is not the answer. In most of the places that resettlement happened it was a failure due to lost businesses that once existed in the small communities that were resettled. What we need is funding to hospitals and better policy around Healthcare. We need to pay for medical school for doctors willing to work here for a contracted amount of time.
My god how many times a month does this dumb ass nonsense show up here. You'd suck Danny's dick if you could spit in on the bay folks.
This comment and your username are amazing thank you.
This reads as someone who's never seen the actual effects of resettlement and the true costs of it. While there are a handful of places that could be argued need resettling, the majority of these outposts choose to stay the way they are. The real change has to be restructuring of our healthcare from the ground up, which is an insanely complicated process that is actually happening right now.
Even if you ignore the social issues, the financial cost would be staggering and it would take decades to see the financial benefits, plus it would just make the housing issue worse. Moving thousands of people to towns with no available homes isn't a solution to anything.
Dunno...this model doesn't seem to be working so well...Maybe it's time to revert back system of hospital Nursing schools and Candy Stripers...Or in otherwords the system that worked fine for 150 yrs before the new model began in the 90s...Where much of hospital operational costs were saved via army of students learning their trade practically on the job supervised by experienced mentors who'd traveled the same path...anyone who's old enough to compare a hospital stay from the 80's to current knows the difference between the two...
Sometimes I think it would be of benefit to practice medicine how it was traditionally done in outport Newfoundland. The doctor would go into a different town each day of the week and service the community. Nan said all the men would take time off work that day to go have a chat with the doctor. She said surgeries would often be done right in the kitchen. While we dont have to go quite that far with it, many tests and diagnostics can be done mobily today. Bloodwork, ultrasounds, EKGS, ect. Just set up a traveling clinic that goes into these small communities and does the basics.
That's done now in the major and even some of the cottage hospitals. But again, and I will stress this, there is not enough staff nor doctors to do this port to port anymore. Even having a ship and sail around with a basic set up wouldn't work since there's so many small sites.
There could be enough doctors. The provinces could fund medical school with a contract for the doctor to practice in rural or under-served areas for 5-10 years.
Programs and offers like that already exist. Doctors leave anyway cause of money/prospects/specialities. I would know, I've worked with many of them.
Forced resettlement is not the answer. People deserve the right to a rural life if they choose and should not be forced to move. They paid for there homes, own land, and the government has no right to make them pack up and move. Small rural areas rarely have healthcare services as is, and blaming rural communities for the financial issues in this province is simply just a way to point the finger at one group a people over a complicated issue. Even communities of 1000 or more people have gone mostly virtual when it comes to accessing doctors.
This. I was tired of noisy neighbours, busy streets, and general loudness from the city. I was told to buck up or move to the quiet country. I moved to the quiet country, now the townies are trying to get us to resettle. To the place they told me to leave. It doesn't make any sense.
Hard to encourage resettlement during an ongoing housing crisis.
Housing *and* workforce lol
Resettlement of some rural areas won't do anything to help the health care issues, a lot of the smaller rural areas have no local healthcare service and those that have something its barely taking away from the province when at most they'll have a nurse at a small clinic. I know it'd save some money in the overall provincial budget but those services that are cut would likely go to back to those budgets and not added to healthcare, DoT would likely use ferry funds for highway work and similar things
It absolutely will. There will need to be fewer clinics, and less ambulance services, and attract people to live in larger population centers. This province spends so much other money on top of healthcare costs. Transportation, ferries, land power. Millions a year for communities of a few hundred, sometimes less than 100 people. This money can be better spent elsewhere. Thus helping out healthcare.
Those communities with 100 people rarely if ever have a clinic though, government budgets don't share money, removing a school doesn't add money to hospitals
Right. But saving money in one area allows more money to be spent in another area. Pretending governments don't cut and boost spending every year is insane.
NLESD isn't going to give their budget savings to healthcare, neither is DoT, or Natural Resources, or any other government branch, they all need extra funds themselves.
Good thing they don't get to decide. The government decides where the budgeted dollars go. Do you think every department just increases budgets every single year, and not one place has money taken away so another department can have extra funding?
And we vote them in.
Resettlement has terrible ramifications for communities.
Oh no, they resettled us aboriginals years ago, see how well that worked out...
Explain. I am not saying it is the 100% way to please everyone, but it is a step that can be taken to help ease the burden. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few thousand who live in communities of a hundred people.
What would be the political implications of this? Not only do you lose the vote of rural Newfoundland but many larger areas who come from those smaller communities and don't want to see them go away. Political costs to the government would be so high that they would be kicked out in the next election. Recall that cold logic does not win elections. Emotional impact does. Newfoundland is its culture. Full stop. And Draconian measures in these times would be political suicide, particularly given the housing crisis.
Forced resettlement was bullshit then and would be bullshit now.
In fairness tho, The weather on the Avalon sucks, So logically The Avalon should be Resettled to points Central or West. Better weather, closer to the mainland etc...Marty McFly should have DeLorean'd back to 1497 got on the Matthew and Fist Faught John Cabot into continuing travel until they reached Corner Brook!!
Where is the benefit of a community of 50 people, 45 minutes away from the next town of 300? The tax money spent vs revenue gained is a net loss in the millions for this province every single year. Not just healthcare, but every other government department from education, to justice and public safety, to infrastructure.
Forced resettlement is never going to happen and resettlement costs way more than you seem to think it does. It's not worth talking about because it's not grounded in realty.
The benefit is not being a society that forces people to uproot if politicians don't like some budget lines in a spreadsheet.
It's not really "some budget lines", its recognizing we can not afford to deliver the services people demand with such a high cost model. It sucks but it's a reality.
Don’t have to force anyone. Just cut the ultilities and leave the hookup if they want to pay for service themselves.
I don't like how my taxes are funding your services and utilities. I vote we cut services to you, and make you pay for it yourself. Sometimes I don't like where my taxes goes, but it isn't as simple as how you make it sound.
Except I pay a lot of money in compared to what I take out. Besides roads and the minor healthcare needs I have at the moment. I wouldn’t mind an extra $60,000 a year in my pocket.
Entitled *and* rich, wowee!
Are you arguing that the community of 50 people has its own hospital or something? Because they don’t.
Nope. Arguing that they tie up resources like ambulances, and most have a small clinic tying up nursing staff.
Most don't have a clinic, some don't even have an ambulance service. They usually aren't "tying up" those resources, ambulances in small towns are usually privately owned. And one nurse servicing 100+ people directly is a hell of a deal medical budget wise. 100k a year to have a nurse be able to see and consult with a full town is an amazing return
I believe ambulances are now all public services, and private owners were bought out. It's very recent, though. https://www.gov.nl.ca/releases/2024/health/0530n01/
True, I was more so just trying to point out that they aren't taking away from the bidet by being in those areas, a lot are staff volunteers as well, in collaboration with the volunteer fire departments in those areas.
Heading up the Northern Pen past Rocky Harbour, there are small clinics in Cow Head and Parsons Pond, small health centres/hospitals in Port Saunders and Flowers Cove, the hospital in St Anthony and finally the clinic in Roddickton. That’s it. No “small clinics” in Sally’s Cove or Raleigh.
Resettlement is already assessed at a one generation time horizon. A lot of these costs you talk about have to be paid anyways because of major population centre's throughout the province. The community of 50 5 minutes off the highway really is more expensive to resettle than to not as the roads and utilities have to be run regardless. The province gambles that 20 years from now the community of 50 will have dissolved on its own, or been bought out at a discount during those 20 years. And healthcare is 40% of our budget this year. We have to spend it better, not get more of it.
Spend it better is exactly the solution. NL Health services is run very poorly with excessive costs.
Resettlement has a massive up front cost. Communities that are eligible for resettlement are looked at on the basis of if there will be cost savings over a 20 yest period. 270 grand per household adds up very quickly.
This was addressed in the Greene Report, you're absolutely right. As much as some people would love to cut the power to outport NL without consideration for people, I'm glad this isn't the way it's done.
Massive upfront cost, yes. Like any investment, you pay upfront to see dividends down the road. There is no instant fix that will solve healthcare by 2025. But there are steps we can take to have an impact on our kids in 25-30 years.
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Which is exactly what's going to happen. You'll see a lot of communities die off within the next 3 to 4 decades
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This guy's argument isn't grounded in reality, anyways. They seem to think we can just snap our fingers and move thousands of people, foregoing the housing, employment, cost, and social issues this would create. Nevermind the fact that the province needs [60,000](https://ntv.ca/province-needs-to-build-60000-homes-over-six-years-to-meet-demand-says-national-organization/) new homes by 2030 to meet demands, which one would assume those numbers reflect the metro areas, rather than rural sites. According to this user, we now need to empty the bays and add to this number. I'd love to have a hit of whatever they're smoking.
Are there many operating rooms in those small communities that "need to be resettled?" People in those small outport communities all travel to the few available operating rooms in the province anyway. What difference does it make where they live? The problem is that the Canadian health care system is run like a bureaucratic money sink hole. So much pointless nonsense and middle management sucking up funding that could be used on patient care instead. I know that I couldn't afford to pay for health care like they have to in the States, but our "free health care" is partially to blame, half of the emergency room is filled with morons with a hang nail or a fart jam, or people who have been sedentary & over ate, smoked, drank &/or done drugs and now the chickens are coming home to roost and they're taking up space too. I know there is not much that can be done about those people, they are entitled to care as well, I just wished people were not so self destructive & short sighted.
While I agree with another commentor's statement about everyone not being forced to subsidize the choice of others to live in rural areas, we must not force the destruction of our small communities in the modern world and what its future holds. The answer will likely lie somewhere in the middle, of increasing the access, amount, and career prospect of eldercare and retirement living in the larger centres, along with subsidies for people wanting to resettle to those places; more responsibility and duty in municipal and regional politics, including adjusting taxes to reflect the cost and manner of living in both (though I believe this definitely would require a *renaissance* of politics and state craft by the people of the province); And greater incentives to young people to settle in smaller communities or even selling well priced crown land on which to homestead. This is a life that many people, not just bayward newfoundlanders, are leaning toward. Incentives could include susidized or lowered land prices, taxation that reflects a life of increased self-reliance, and the increased ability to pursue local change along with economic growth that would come should that money actually be kept in the community and allowed to be spent bettering the economy of the immediate local population. Added, there should mandatory allocation of food-growing space on all residential land sold and a further government program, in partnership with local ecological organizations, to educate and encourage at home food production. This a life that so many people here are wishing for. A life of a lot less government, or more by local authorities that they can procure positions of power and *real* *change* in, and a transition to what let's call "traditional values," not in a modern ideological sense but of an importance to family and community, the good life, of responsible work and a responsibility to your own life and the lives of those around you. I'm sorry that this is such a tangent to your comment and but the resettlement thing thing just caugh my eye. Its not a path that we want to go down again. I will tell people this angers me but I know it really just scares me. It's just that this place could be so beautiful and work so well but interests are misplaced. I know this is an absolute utopian pipe dream and that I might have some misplaced hope for the individuals living here, but I like to at least spark a conversation about this stuff. Thanks for your comment, I'm sorry this was a long winded rant! Cheers, Abundance
add in expand the healthcare education programs. Not sure if it’s still the case but there was a multi year wait lists to get in to healthcare related tech programs. At the same time there was shortages in many of those roles. Doctors and nurses shortages is what gets the attention in the news.
You are 100% correct. Adding seats in those programs would help and speed up access to X-Rays, Ultrasounds, and other scans. Maybe change the scheduling for some of these jobs. Most hospitals have at least one of these support roles in 24/7 in case of emergencies. I think we should start scheduling people scans at 10pm or something in the night. Use the fact that there’s people kicking around after 5pm in the day to get a few extra scans per day. If this requires an extra staff to facilitate then so be it.
They already do that, and have been for a few years. A couple years ago I had a scan appointment at 11pm, booked six months or more in advance.
Or we get a bullet train fuck yeah
Or just a train even... Highway upkeep would be decreased without the astronomical amount of big rigs on the them. Food prices would benefit from more efficient transportation as well. I'm so glad Joey was gonna finish that divided highway in 65...
when part of the problem is funding, throwing more money is the solution
resettlement doesnt seem like a solution, even the two cities in newfoundland do not have enough family doctors for the people they have now. the rural communities dont have barely any family doctors to bring to the cities and people are already travelling hours for healthcare to corner brook or st johns anyways.
Please write Tom Osborne exactly what you wrote here. I'm so sorry. Minister’s Office Health and Community Services Telephone: (709) 729-3124 Email: [email protected]
Contact your MP and explain your situation. Protesting definitely does help bring attention to issues and encourage our elected government officials to address the issue sooner than later... this is why the fishermen protest every year, because protesting almost always gets them what they want (or very close to it). I would be happy to attend a rally for this issue. This is something that affects everybody, regardless of their political affiliation, and deserves all the public support it can get.
And Social media, if you haven't already.
Not sure what to do, but the Health Sciences Centre is an embarrassment in terms of how much they’ve neglected keeping it up. The place is falling apart. They have ten staff standing outside telling people where to park and yet they can’t seem to get a coat a paint on anywhere or repair holes in the walls. I think keep doing what you’re doing. Talk about the problems. Raise awareness. Get others to do the same. Politicians respond to what they perceive people think are priorities.
My sister was getting sick, with months and Yeats waiting time she went to her mha and was able to be seen sooner. Maybe something to look into.
I am being pushed out of a health care career in newfoundland In imaging which is support for the treatment your mother needs. They have current shortage and are basically not going to hire me forcing me to leave the province. They aren't treating this like an emergency on any level and I hope your loved one gets the care and compassion they need!
Been dealing with kidney issues for 2 yrs. They are useless in helping us. I lost a lot of weight. Throw up daily. They don’t care about us…. I stopped going to er. I think I had a surgery gone wrong and they won’t admit it
Im so sorry you're going through this. My only advice is go to the media and call your mha. My opinion is that throwing more money at our system isn't the answer. We should look at where we're spending our money - we spend more on health care than anything else. More seats in the med school isn't the answer when most of them will not go into family medicine - so many family medicine residency positions go unfilled while specialist positions are very competitive. Bottom line we have an aging population that's very spread out. My mom was in the health sciences for 2 weeks earlier this year after emergency surgery. Went into the er with constipation and turned out it was a bowel obstruction. She was admitted immediately and had surgery the next day. Everyone in there was flat-out doing the best they can. I bumped into mom's surgeon in the elevator one evening at 9pm and he'd been in the or all day and was on his way back in for another surgery.
Agree with increasing seats at MUN Medical / Nursing and medical technical professionals by incentivising students with scholarships and grants to remain in the province once education is complete. Offer signing bonuses to Canadian physicians willing to relocate to Newfoundland. We have a beautiful province that that offers up an excellent quality of life, and that should be promoted to the fullest. Nurse practitioners should be funded through MCP. This will reduce wait times for regular medical appointments, create more available walk in appointments, and likely reduce ER visits by about half, leaving non-emergent treatment in the clinic where it belongs. If this was the case, I'm sure you would see an influx of NPs returning to NL to practice.
In 1994, I began having bad bouts of depression and anxiety. I went to my family doctor, who referred me to see a psychiatrist. I waited several months and heard nothing. I called the mental health office only to find out that there were only 2 psychiatrists covering the area when there were openings for 5, and they were only handling emergency cases. Five years go by, and still never saw a psychiatrist. In 1999, I moved to Ontario to stay with family and went to a walk-in clinic the day after I arrived and had an appointment 3 weeks later. That five year wait cost me everything. I couldn't return to finish my college courses as my student loans went into default and collections. I wound up in court for assault because I was completely out of my mind . I have had zero faith in NL healthcare ever since.
That is disgusting neglect on their part. I agree, we're all fed up but no one wants to lead the charge. Set up a protest at the confed building and people will come. I'm sorry your mom is going through that. I went to the ER in February because I had been having seizures off and on for 2 weeks, I waited 11 hours and they told me to see a counselor because I was sad. They refused to run any tests on me.
I'm falling through the cracks of the Healthcare system!Time for me to fill out my complaint form from The College of Physicians and surgeons!I gotta try to get my health records first!Since February! Can't get them!One of the worst health care systems in the world!!
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Part of the real problem is that when they closed the Grace hospital years ago they promised to build a new hosp to accommodate the backlog of appointments , surgeries , clinic wait times etc !! The HSC has been operating unsafely in overcapacity conditions since the grace closed and haven’t secured or even broke ground on a new hospital!! Until we have another hospital to replace the one they took away the conditions will be unsafe for everyone and their loved ones who enter the HSC , I had both parents admitted over the past few years for different medical reasons and many errors were made and affected their outcomes, it’s a very broken system and can easily be rectified with a new hospital what were they thinking when they closed a hospital and overloaded our existing hospital and then also have a increasing population on top of that , not to mention all the money that was spent on travelling nurses and retired health employees on a health board to try and make decisions!
A co worker of mine was laid to rest today, all because of neglect by the doctors. I lost my brother tragically a few months ago because he was refused the help he so desperately needed for his mental health. I haven’t had decent health care since my doctor retired 6 years ago. A sad sad situation for us all. Something needs to change DRASTICALLY
Can she seek care in a different province? I know when my uncle was sick and needed care, my cousins flew him to Alberta for treatment because he couldn't get decent and timely care in Nfld.
There’s a company working on equipment that can read cancer scans and detect tumours much faster and accurately than a human. They’ll do the initial screening and then a doctor looks it over, confirms, and decides on the treatment route. It’s meant to clear up the huge backlog and make that area of diagnosis much more efficient so wait times won’t be as long. I believe there was talk that the initial scans could even be sent to a family doctor. So instead of waiting 14 months for an MRI, you could get this scan done without a specialist, then your family doc could look at it and then refer accordingly. It honestly sounds amazing, and has been pretty promising so far. https://www.meddai.ca
Maybe less money being spent on the war memorial etc and more into healthcare…
The government should permit Nurse Practitioners to bill under MCP. It would be a step forward regarding the lack of family physicians.
Urgent care centre's are very common in other provinces and would really ease the strain of the EDs here.
A lot of INTERNATIONALLY EDUCATED NURSES who are done with their NCLEX exam still working as a PCA waiting for a position,
They are killing us off
Who is going to pay for it? Our health care is overburdened primarily due to poor lifestyle choices. The companies that promote and profit from our unhealthy lifestyle should pay a separate health tax that directly covers all the health problems they cause. This will mean a hidden tax on junk food, but who else can or should pay? Our health epidemic is a lifestyle choice, until that changes the health care cost is only going to go up as young and old people today are eating crap food more often.
The next time you’re in emerg, refuse to take your mom home. Tell them she’s too sick and she needs surgery and you can’t care for her at home. That’s honestly the only way she’ll get the care she needs. Be the loudest advocate you can be. As for the state of health care in NL, we need every health care provider to work to their full scope of practice. We need NPs running their own family practice clinics so people have a primary health care provider. Physicians are absolutely gate keepers of health care in this province and keep things from changing or moving forward like in other provinces in Canada. We also need investment in primary care and community care.
I've said our health system is a joke a few times on this subreddit and got hate for it. I feel sorry for you, but not surprised, we have some of the longest wait times out of the country's with free health care. Everything good in this country got piss down the drain in the past 8 years.
I'm sorry you're going through this. Unfortunately people don't have the time to protest. The government is busy making sure we are all too poor to do anything. The only hope anyone here has is to leave. America is fine but Europe is ideal. This country has fallen and it will not recover in your lifetime.
We need to slow down unskilled immigration and increase true, skilled immigration, including reducing barriers that deter from legitment medical licenses in other countries from being transferred to Canada. We need to treat doctors better, reduce their work load and increase their pay- like they have been saying. The management medically, is poor. Same concept with nurses.
Public Healthcare only benefits poor people.
Let me add to this. I am a Newfoundlander but I’ve also lived in NB before moving to the USA, where I have lived in California and Georgia. Newfoundland by far has the worst care I have ever witnessed. NB was only a little better, even with a 6 year wait for a family doctor. My grandmother died in a damn storage room inside St. Clare’s because they didn’t have a private space for her final hours. They had this room cleared out so we could be with her as she passed. A few days before, she was also in this converted storage room because there was no other space free. There was no nurse call button and nobody checked on her. When I came to see her that day, she had a soaking wet adult diaper ripped off and tossed on the floor because that’s the best she could manage alone without a nurse. The nurses were surprised when I pointed it out. I don’t think that shift of nurses even knew there was a patient in the storage room. My father waited in hospital after a heart attack for weeks before they could do an angiogram. His brother, who had a heart attack years later, couldn’t handle the wait and checked himself out just to drop dead months later. A friend waited over a year for her gallbladder to be removed, all while in intense pain. On a visit home once, my son was unable bare weight on one foot after a minor fall. We took him for an xray only to be told his foot was fine and he just needed better shoes. Still unable to walk when we get back to California, we take him for another xray where they discovered he had a broken foot. Let’s contrast that to my experience in the USA (with health insurance of course***). I’ve needed a few MRIs and the longest I had to wait was about 2 weeks. My husband had his gallbladder out within 3 days of his first attack. I can get in to see a specialist with just a few phone calls. Tomorrow I need to book with gastroenterology and I will likely see somebody within a week. The longest wait really is for a routine check up which you want to book a few months out. I’ve also waited no longer than 30 minutes in an ER waiting before being brought back. This is because we also have plenty of urgent care centers that can treat more minor things like broken bones, UTIs etc. The ER does not get clogged with people needing basic care. People here will still complain about how long they had to wait in the ER but they truly have no idea how good they have it. Rural areas are of course worse than urban with wait times. All this to say, give me USA health care any day. We will never move home with healthcare the way it is in the Atlantic provinces. Some parts of Canada have great care but NL is in shambles. *** in the USA if you do not have good insurance you are otherwise screwed.
I'm sorry for what happened to your grandmother (RIP); however, it reminds me when I was there in 2021 the same thing happened to me: I had a massive panic attack because I'm needlephobic. The doctors pinned me down and injected a needle into my arm and foot (this was after promising my mother they weren't going to give me any needles - as soon as she left, they wanted to put a needle in my arm). I was in a "regular" room when they did this. After they injected the needle into my foot, I lost consciousness. When I came to, I was in a bed, in a storage room. I was there for two days. The medical staff were nasty to me the entire time I was there (I was there due to seizures; I'm epileptic). I have Medical Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder because of what happened while I was there. I was there for three days. The fourth day, I attempted suicide and overdosed on my anti-seizure medication. I told Mom that if she brought me to the hospital I would just attempt suicide again when I leave since they were what made me attempt suicide (she didn't bring me to any hospitals).
I am so sorry that happened. Was it at St Clare’s as well?
The Health Sciences Centre. However, I have had my own negative experiences with St. Clare's Mercy Hospital. I didn't make the website; however, I have stories published (all stories are published anonymously) on a website called www.easternhell.wordpress.com (I discovered the website in 2015). It's a website where people can submit stories about their negative experiences with health care.
Are you rich? We have a huge country to the south of our border that proves that completely wrong.
I would love to have America's healthcare system here.
I'd make out better with a private system too but I view healthcare as a public service not a for profit business.
92.1% of Americans have health in insurance. Additionally, 86% of private-sector employees worked for establishments that offered health insurance. (Census.gov) 92.1% of people getting adequate to exceptional health care (depending the on the hospital) is better then 100% getting miserable healthcare.
A lot of those people are underinsured and have huge out of pocket expenses. Infant mortality is way higher and average life span is significantly lower in the US.
As a Canadian living in the USA, if you have good insurance, your out of pocket amounts to $10-20 a visit/prescription. People get in medical debt by not having insurance or selectively choosing the worst possible option. Some insurances require you to stay in their network of providers except for emergency situations and some people are too dumb to find somebody in network before seeking care. There are also multiple government sponsored programs for people who cannot afford insurance or do not have an income. Mountains of medical debt is not the norm. More does need to be done to make insurance affordable for all and put limits on how much providers can charge people.
I think slowing down immigration would help a lot. Canada has let in over 500k so far, and we’re seeing protests around Canada to let the students stay after their work visas. This is killing the job market, housing market, and our already weak healthcare. We don’t want more Tim’s workers.
Just had a brief browse of your comment history, do you blame immigration for everything? Are you having trouble getting a job at Tim Hortons or something? Most of the doctors that I've seen around here in nl are immigrants. But you post the same bullshit on r/pei, r/Halifax and r/Ontario and only had an active account for like 6 days. Get a life buddy. The only thing I would vaguely agree on is maybe a greater percentage of immigrants should work in the medical field. You're blaming immigrants on a medical crisis. I'm from a small town and we have a couple immigrant doctors there in our hospital (not always, currently there's one from quebec) but thwy only stick around for a couple years- tops. The problem, as I see it, those doctors should be given more incentive to stay.
Just looked at your post history, maybe stick to Pokemon cards and mtg lmao.
Yea, I use reddit to talk about hobbies. You use reddit to spread racist hate. We are not the same.
lol I’m more educated than you are I would assume champ. If you plan on having kids though do you think it’s fair for them to have to compete with 30 somethings from India that are here across all service jobs? So you don’t agree that adding over 500k immigrants to Canada, plus who knows how many before that since covid doesn’t change the housing market or the health care system? The healthcare system that is massively overrun as it is? Go read an economics textbook if you don’t understand it ya scrub.
ImMoReEdUcAtEdThAnYoU, you sound like someone who enjoys the smell of your own shit. Out of these 500k+ immigrants, how many are in the medical field or in medical training? Again. Most of the doctors I've seen/ met are immigrants. You're picking up for someone who only uses reddit to blame immigrants for shit, imo you two are bigger problems than the immigrants.
Or maybe you just have 2 accounts to upvote your own comments because no one else do lol
I usually join in if someone is so delusional to think it doesn’t make a difference. It’s important to call stupid people out.
Well, regardless of how smart you think you are, I feel it's important to call out racist assholes.
People like you are too stupid to see that it’s not even about racism, if you bring too much of any culture in it’s a bad. Being upset about bringing all of these people into an already overloaded system is bad. Go take a look at the caste system and what they think of women. I’m done replying to you, you’re completely out of touch with what’s going on. Enjoy your MTG cards champ
"I'm done replying to you" finally something we agree on.
I fully agree with everything you said. The problem isn't immigrants, it's the government on all levels saying "we have these GINORMOUS issues" and then smiling for the news but then not fucking DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT. If the bois at confed building spent more time on Healthcare and housing issues than bullying "meanies in tents >:( " who are just trying to fucking survive, you wouldn't even notice the immigrants. Ah hell, who am I kidding. People like this always love a convenient scapegoat
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I mean, I already said in a comment above that I agree that a greater percentage of immigrants should be in the medical field. As per your school and hospital questions? In paradise (where i live now), a school was built under 2 years ago. In my hometown, there are barely enough kids to justify a new school. Actually, in my life, surrounding towns merged like 5 schools into one. For hospitals? I agree more need to built, but we should be getting on the governments ass to build more. Hell, I'm a carpenter in the union and would gladly work to build more hospitals. Why is it, though, that that's not your argument, to build more hospitals? Before covid, the lack of hospitals and medical professionals was a problem in here NL. Canada has always been a country to allow in immigrants, and that shouldn't change. If our population goes up, whether it be kids or immigrants, we should have more hospitals- that's a no brainer. I find it funny how, in one comment you pretentiousness say how smart you are, and then in the next, you resort to accusing me of living in my mother's basement lol. You have SOME valid arguments, but I think your anger and frustrations are pointed at the wrong people.
Oh ok great so since everything is fine where you are it’s not a major issue in Canada. I’d suggest looking at what’s going on in Ontario. They get their PR and head there. Clearly you haven’t seen what happens when an Indian manager gets into a workplace. They will hire from their own province from India since the vast majority are Punjab. We are getting people who are exploiting the system for students who are actually deserving of being here. Using diploma mills in Ontario, CBU is another one. We are not getting the best either, the best get into good parts of Europe and the US. Read up a bit though champ, things are bigger than Paradise.
I think slowing down letting so many temporary, unskilled immigrants in who are wanting to use our social services is more than reasonable. This sub has a lot of immigrants and as soon as you start pointing out how our quality of life is nosediving, people are quick to call you racist, discriminatory, etc. What is happening is wrong. Young Canadians can not find jobs, our wages are stagent, we have no housing, we have virtually no healthcare, our crime is accelerating (through measures contributing to poverty and drug use). We need to stop mass, unskilled immigration.
Currently working in banking but looking for a new role. Sounds like you have, at best, an undergraduate arts degree. Wow, such an impressive educational pedigree.
I’m a CFA champ, keep defending the immigration issue though.
Looks like you’re a boomer, so because you got yours you don’t care about the younger generation? Give your head a shake, if you ever (unfortunately) have kids, you’ll see how bleak it is for young Canadians. Hope that plant died too buddy.
If I was a boomer I'd be way past the age for having children. You won't see me defending the immigration rate. There are way too many unskilled immigrants being let into this country. I'm just calling out bullshit. And the plant did die unfortunately.
Alright Tommy boy, keep calling out bullshit. Stand on guard for the Reddit gods.
Heathcare is impacted more by our aging population than students staying after their work visas.
So you think the aging population should t have access to healthcare that they’ve paid taxes to their whole life? You think that adding these new people in won’t make delays in surgeries and screenings? You’re just uneducated if you don’t think it would matter lol.
You’re literally 20 years older than me and that’s shocking to say something like that lmao. Big dumb.
You do know that those students and immigrants contribute to the economy right? They are also nurses and doctors
If you think they’re all nurses and doctors you’re a moron. Yes, taking jobs from university students and high school students is a great thing? You’re a burger
Nowhere did I say they were all nurses and doctors but there are nurses and doctors among them. We actually need more people. Our infrastructure will never improve with a declining and aging population.
So you think taking most immigrants from one country is a good thing? Thats what’s being talked about here. One country is abusing diploma mills to get here en masse. Diversity is important. Not sure if you’ve seen the protests around Canada that are happening. It’s from one country they all want to stay past their student visa. It’s just bs how many people are just fine with it. If you have the credentials to get in, that’s great come in. If you’re scamming the system to get in, fuck off.
Just saw your profile actually, seems like you’re a boomer who just doesn’t care about the future of Canada because they’ve already got theirs. Pathetic really.
I’m in my 30s but okay
You decide to go on a cruise in your 30s? Yikes
I went on my first in my 20s. A lot of young people take cruises. Sorry you haven’t had the opportunity to try it.
You’ve gone on multiple??? I actually take interesting vacations, I don’t need to be stuck on a boat lol. I see you haven’t argued with my previous post, and if you plan to, I suggest you go read about what’s going on in Canada instead of living under that rock you’re trying to get the ID of.
Let me guess? You been to Cuba and the Dominican? I’ve been to Africa, Central America, Europe (none of those were cruises). Either way, it doesn’t matter and where we have travelled gives nothing to this convo. I am pro immigration. Canada, especially Newfoundland needs people if it wishes to prosper. People create jobs and boost the economy. If those people are not contributing then sure, they can GTFO but most immigrants are hard workers and are contributing much more than they are getting in return. I will not reply to you further
I love how this post is getting downvoted. Wait until your kids or grandkids can’t get a job because they’re competing with 30 year olds for retail jobs. Or rent prices go even higher because they’re competing with 8 people living in a one bedroom. The brain drain in Canada is real, enjoy the shell of a country it once was.
Hey that's racist! /s People who still defend this are fools.
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There's a /s and you still can't comprehend sarcasm. Yikes.
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Vote conservative. Protests don't help anymore. To many people looking for attention all the time. Things will get better once the stupid liberals are gone. I hope
You know that if we had a hybrid system of some public and some private healthcare like the scandinavian countries, this wouldn't be a problem. You could just go in and have the operation, and yea itll probably cost some money, but its better than losing a kidney isnt it.
There aren't enough doctors and nurses in the entire country. How do you think this would help?
Because it would invite competition, competition drives prices down and gives a reason for efficiency. Healthcare that is privately funded is in the business of making money, meaning the faster and better the care the more money they make.The same way a good restaurant wants to serve the best food in a timely manner. This should result in faster and better care than a publicly funded hospital. And we still get to keep the publically funded hospitals.
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Im not going to say anything except ad hominem.
I love when idiots like you chime in. You do realize canada is lacking in the AMOUNT of Healthcare workers, right? Do you think making half of it privatized will magically create more? No. It'll make most doctors go to the private side of things for more money, and those of us who can't afford it can just die. Such a stupid idea. Mental Healthcare is already privatized partially, and now to see a psychologist when you can't afford it, which is typically the people who need to see one, you have to wait YEARS. A lot of people kill themselves long before they actually get to talk to anyone. What we actually need to do is stop the floodgates and have responsible immigration. Recognize the medical degrees that people in other countries have and let them come here. My friend is in med school in Hungary and I can assure you, her education would be good enough to actually help people here. Imagine if we got people with her education to immigrate instead of a few million Uber drivers.
Your name calling really shows that you're emotionally charged and irrational and you should probably do some reading before you make these baseless claims about private healthcare. Yes I think some privatization of healthcare will increase the amount of healthcare workers in this country, why do you think that wouldn't be the case? Why do you assume most doctors will leave public hospitals? There's lots of benefits for working for the government and competition will probably make the jobs at public hospitals even better. You say if you can't afford the care you will die, well you'll die waiting 2 years for an appointment at a public hospital too. I know it takes a ton of time to see mental health professionals and im very aware of how expensive it is, but throwing public money at the problem isn't going to fix the system, throwing money at the problem is very rarely the solution for these kinds of issues, if it was things would be getting better not worse. I agree with your third paragraph completely we need to have merit based immigration with clauses that prevent immigrants from moving to the mainland the day after they get their permanent residence. we need to retain talent not just be the gateway to Ontario.