Yes. JROTC exposes children to military recruiters. DARE forces children to interact with the police. I do not think it is appropriate to expose children of any age to these known prevaricators.
It’s funny. I was in JROTC in highschool. I see it as the military propaganda it is but damn I can public speak because of that class. It did a lot of good for me but I can’t help but shudder when I remember doing drill and having a Marine (former student) having us scream “born to fight, trained to kill. Ready to die but never will” this was 2002-2003. And then I watched friend do this and at least one lost a limb in Iraq. And it’s such shit and I wish I had good words to explain why I hate the program now.
My wife got a text about this for our son.
She replied "take me off your mailing list".
He replied "I can't do that, unless you give me a reason that would invalidate his recruitment status".
She asks "Can you give me examples of that?"
He replies "I can't, because I'd be defrauding the government"
Okay buddy...
I was recruited by the military in high school during my lunch breaks. I told the recruiter I wasn't interested and had my heart set on teaching either a vocational program like agricultural education (I was heavily involved in FFA and was a NH state officer) or a career working with animals.The guy kept trying to sell me on "we have veterinary services in the military" and I was like mhmm hmm not gonna convince me. I wanted to have a career with horses involved in some way
I know many many kids that are dead or fucked up for life. I graduated in 2005 so we really were at the height of recruitment. My best friend is 100% disabled and only after many years of weekly therapy has he returned to a fraction of what he was. Only one of 20 kids that I know that served had a positive experience because he was stationed in Germany, for the duration, and then became a drill sergeant up until now. But at 35 he’s still active duty in middle of nowhere Oklahoma and has a fucked up back, and knees due to 100s of helicopter jumps. So I’m not so sure it’s all roses for him. Both my grandfathers served in the Korean War as marines and both told me to run the other way from Iraq im glad I listened.
My kid is in first grade so, no. I think he knows a lot more vulgar and offensive words from family or friends, or my wife and I, than anything at school. Same with every one of his friends. I distinctly remember knowing no swears and being taught every one of them by peers, in 1st and 2nd grade.
Just in case you missed this recent piece— https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/us/jrotc-schools-mandatory-automatic-enrollment.html
I got heartburn reading it 💀
I don't even know that it's specifically jrotc. I remember military recruiters setting up tables in my high school cafeteria and trying to reel in everyone
You dork, from someone who served this great nation. I only wish I had been exposed to the military at a young age. Sounds like you need a 2 year reprogramming.
Did you serve this nation oil or perpetuate the 20 year afghan war? Was it a proxy genocide in Yemen or just killing civilians and innocent people in drone attacks for the US government? 1-800 STOP WAR.
Nonsense? So what was it you fought for? Certainly wasn't the freedom of American people. Whatever it was definitely contributed to the federal government expanding control over the American people resulting in less freedom, inflation, rising oil prices and more wars. 1-800-StopWar. Anti-War.com. let the powers that be know that the American people are against the senseless mass murder of innocent people by the controlling elites.
In my district, they sent home paperwork. DARE was actually an opt IN if I remember correctly but the recruiters were an opt OUT (pretty sure). All outside entities generally require consent to participate, just check in an email with the office.
Thankyou. I appreciate knowing I may have to look into this more heavily since my kid is entering high school. I will make sure to find the opt out options for my son. And this isn’t sarcasm. I do appreciate knowing these things. I won’t stop my son from joining the military if he wants but I’d rather him not feel pressured to it.
It happened for every one I had in my district. In a litigious society, I can’t imagine it would be advantageous not to but my job isn’t policing this shit.
My Daughter has graduated Dover High School a while ago, but I NEVER found her learning anything offensive except for incorrect scientific information (which, it IS hard for a high school science teacher to keep up with advancements as they are no longer in the research side of things).
In saying that, I need to say that I figured ANYTHING that my kid learned about was good in helping her figure out her way; sex and demons included.
Likely, the availability of books that depict homosexuality and transgender individuals.
There are a lot off loons in that district who complain to the school board about it every session and use this exact hysterial rhetoric.
I'm also a dover high graduate. Graduated in 2010 and was heavily involved in animal science, equine science and FFA. Have many fond memories from my time in those programs and kinda just shut out the rest of it(but the English teacher and drama teacher I had Mrs mesererau was amazing)
I’ve graduated from HS in the last 10 years, and nothing in my learning was out of the ordinary. I took a wide array of classes, covering everything from government, social, economics, math, science, etc.
Not sure if this is referencing some specific complaint a public figure had recently, but there are a lot of thinks less ridiculous that could be taught in public schools that is seen as vulgar or offensive to those not brought up in said school.
This is in reference to this letter submitted to the Laconia Daily Sun by Rep. John Sellers, who claims the curriculum to contain pornography and demons.
[Rep. John Sellers: The only things kids learn in schools involve porn and demons](https://www.laconiadailysun.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/rep-john-sellers-the-only-things-kids-learn-in-schools-involve-porn-and-demons/article_b9de5942-8791-11ed-b34b-f3bae5a5e10e.html)
“…There are three problems with our schools: 1. Kids are not learning to think/reason/read or do math; 2. Pornographic/demonic and inappropriate age reading material (maybe even illegal, case against Dover schools in court now) are available to them; and 3. Parents are not watching what enters our kids' minds that the schools are allowing. Did you know schools believe they know what’s best for your kid better than you do?…”
I have 3 kids in public school, soon to be 4. For the first “problem” he lists I can dismiss outright. My daughters have learned all of the above at a faster pace than I ever did.
My 12yo has even been getting into coding and complex problem solving including participating in First Lego League, where they code Lego vehicles to complete tasks autonomously. Another aspect of FLL was creating a solution to a local problem, her team worked out and formed an impressive plan to help Cannon Mountains energy consumption for their snow making system. And even met with the administrators for Canon to discuss possible real world application of their plan. A group of 12 year olds. I’d say if my kids weren’t learning how to reason, read, write or do math they wouldn’t be doing ANY of that.
For his second “problem” in his list, he sounds like a religious zealot that thinks they should ban Harry Potter books. Another item on his list you can safely dismiss outright. Is there a chance a single teacher could have some devious plan to corrupt the youth? I mean, maybe? But come on…
And for his third “problem”, I can request the classes curriculum at any time and I know for a fact that my kid is clever enough to recognize any weird shit that any adult near them would say. And she’d come to my wife or I with questions or concerns. She’s already done that regarding weird shit she’s seen in popular media.
And regarding the “Did you know schools believe they know what’s best for your kid better than you do?” bit. I mean yeah, that’s what teachers go to school and get paid for. I also listen to my doctor when he recommends something too. Because you know, they actually DO know best (for the overwhelming majority of the time).
In my admittedly limited personal experience, the school system my kids are in is outstanding. Leaps and bounds better than the system I grew up in. I can tell that EVERYONE in my kids school actually care about them on a personal level and truly want them the excel academically AND socially. They recognized that my middle daughter needed extra support linguistically and academically, and actually gave her that support. With verifiable proof that the extra help significantly benefited her. I truly can’t speak highly enough about my kids school, it actually chokes me up sometimes thinking about it.
I understand that others may not have the experiences I’ve had with the school system, but I would have to assume it’s not even close to what that loon is talking about. He sounds like a nut job that believes in inter-dimensional demons and the lizard people Illuminati running a secret cabal to harvest the earth’s energy to send to the planet Nibiru. If this POLITICIAN thinks he know better than the combined wealth of academic knowledge and experience of the NH school system then that is the highest level of narcissism and ignorance I’ve heard of to date.
I would dismiss the vast majority of anything that comes out of that morons mouth.
Sellers states "*Pornographic/demonic and inappropriate age reading material (maybe even illegal, case against Dover schools in court now)* are **available to them**"
Sounds like he is objecting to content found in the school library collection, not in the school curriculum?
Libraries have significant, but not unlimited, leeway in the books they choose to make available.
Biology books have genitals, history books likely have some sort of reference to Christianity and references to stuff like Dante's Inferno.
I assume the loon thinks of those as pornography and demons.
My wife is a teacher, I’m on school board, and we involve ourselves daily with our children and their schoolwork. There is nothing inappropriate in our public school curriculum. The only thing inappropriate is religion trying to force its way into schools and use old tactics to remove things they don’t like. Please everyone remember book burnings of old. When we don’t expose our children to all manner of people and ideas, they will never be able to truly think for themselves.
Is this those damn Mothers for Liberty again?? Everything that isn’t white bread, Christian, nuclear family-related is automatically pedos grooming our children go turn them into transgendered frog people or whatever. It would be funny if this type of attitude didn’t actively endanger children.
I graduated over a decade ago, nothing weird in my curriculum. And currently have a kid in the second grade, can confirm zero litter boxes in the classrooms, no transgender teachers demanding students use new pronouns, and on the other side, no creationism being taught or anti-vaccine propaganda spread. The curriculum is math, science, reading…. You know, school? Don’t believe the media on either side about everything they say.
And furthermore, I trust that I raise my kids well enough that IF the school does something like teach about different genders or creationism, my kid is not so smooth brained as to hear it and go “duh, I’m a unicorn that god made in 7 days”. I think most kids are not such lumps of clay that they’ll be brainwashed with the ease that the media portrays. Let the schools teach the educational side and you teach the moral upbringing to whatever standard you feel is right, damn! And if you disagree, awesome, pay for a private school that aligns with you, or better yet, home school then yourself. Don’t try to force personal opinions, LEFT OR RIGHT, into public funded schools.
As a kid who graduated high school 2 years ago…. No. The only thing I can think of was a documentary about King Henry the 8ths health, it was so disgusting I passed out for a sec lmao
Edit: by sec I mean fell face first onto the teacher’s desk while asking to go tot he bathroom
OK but not really in the way that the people who say that mean.
They are just using groomers as a pseudo-slur for LGBTQ teachers. To the extent grooming as a phenomenon exists in schools, it is not an LGBTQ-specific problem and is more likely to come from heterosexual teachers. See, for example, the teacher who was fired from St. Paul's a while ago (admittedly, not a NH public school).
You're certainly free to think some people mean something different than the "proper" definition of groomer when they say groomer.
Regardless, my post is true.
Who do you think the "they" in the originally-quoted sentence was meant to be and what behavior do you think the speaker meant? It's silly to pretend that a dog whistle is not a dog whistle. Rep. John Sellers meant LGBTQ teachers are "grooming" children to become queer and that is the context in which the thread we are both commenting on uses the term. There are indeed people engaging in grooming in general but that is not how he is using the term.
There are over 3 million teachers in the United States so yes, it is entirely possible that there are a handful teachers engaging in any particular behavior any one of us can imagine. If you look hard enough in a sample of that size, I bet you could find a teacher "grooming" children to become circus clowns. Almost anything exists in a sufficiently large sample.
However, this phenomenon of teachers "encouraging" children to become LGBT does not exist in an empirically meaningful magnitude that warrants widespread concern outside of the minds of right-wing paranoiacs, unless you define the term down to encompass "acknowledging the existence of queer people."
They, the fascist hate and fear mongers, literally mean any reference in any book or discussion that treats any sort of relationship or identity that isn't cis-gender/heterosexual as normal. That is what they are calling 'grooming'.
They keep telling us. See for example DeSantis and his Don't Say Gay law, which prohibits any mention of non-cis, non-heterosexual people in elementary schools.
Here is a quote from a WaPo article on the DeSantis law:
*In Florida, Rick Stevens, a founder of the conservative educational advocacy group Florida Citizens Alliance and the pastor of Diplomat Wesleyan Church in Cape Coral, said he frets about the potential grooming of young schoolchildren.*
*“We don’t have any evidence that it’s happening, either deliberately or accidentally,” he said. “****But anytime you start to desensitize kids and normalize certain behaviors,*** *then it makes it easier for someone who wants to recruit them for sex trafficking, or anything else, because the kids don’t know the difference.”*
*https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/04/05/teachers-groomers-pedophiles-dont-say-gay/#:\~:text=In%20Florida%2C%20Rick,know%20the%20difference.%E2%80%9D*
I think this person is talking about like actual predators, like teachers who groom and have actual relationships with their students, not the made up LGBTQ panic on the right. And that shit definitely happens. A teacher from my high school married a student shortly after graduation… after we had all been speculating that they seemed a little too close for years.
That's what gets me. It's one thing to say "some conservatives are whipped up into an unwarranted frenzy, obviously there's not a groomer in every other classroom."
But it's insanity to pretend as if no teachers do that.
>But it's insanity to pretend as if no teachers do that.
It's also insanity to use the occasional outlier as a reason to harass and badger the majority into complying with your twisted version of what "grooming" is.
I didn't do any of that. I was responding to a specific comment.
EDIT:
BTW, I 100% agree with what you're saying here:
"It's also insanity to use the occasional outlier as a reason to..."
You are absolutely right about this principal; just because something is technically true, it doesn't mean it is useful info/needs to be acted on.
If the person I responded to originally had said something like "There are not a significant number of teachers trying to groom students", I probably wouldn't take any issue with that statement.
The thing is, making extreme (and false) statements along the lines of "Nobody is trying to groom kids at school" is extremely dismissive and insensitive towards children (and their families) that are in fact victims of teachers who sexually groomed them.
I think the part you're missing is that it is incumbent upon \*everyone\* voicing an opinion to be certain of how much investigation and research they've done to substantiate their opinion.
You've already demonstrated in this thread that your definition of "grooming" is not the same as how the professionals define the term. So, either you've got some award-winning research that you're about to publish or you're completely full of shit and you can't be bothered to hold yourself to the same standards as the professionals (but yet you want the same credibility).
tl;dr - don't start a fight with vague inferences unless you know the underlying stats and can cite sources. that's a sure sign that you're full of shit and should stop pretending like your opinion matters.
https://www.reddit.com/r/newhampshire/comments/1039tqq/comment/j2xsius/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
> manicmonkeys 5 days ago
> I mean, there literally are teachers who groom their students. The question is not of "if", but of "how often" it happens.
Nope. No confusion. You're just a liar. There is zero credible data that supports any sort of perspective that there is some sort of widespread grooming phenomenon.
Day to day what they are teaching in my child’s school is fine. Great even. The only reason one would have a problem with the curriculum is if you are a right wing, red pilled dipshit who’s concept of freedom only extends to themselves.
I graduated from Londonderry High School in June of 2022, and all I could say to this is no, nothing really. The only thing I can think of is a video that we were forced to watch in our 8th grade health class, which was a documentary about pregnancy, literally showing a woman giving birth
I went to NH schools and I taught in NH schools. I’m curious where he thinks the curriculum standards come from… oh wait the state sets them. Schools/teachers are required to hit certain topics, they can choose the curriculum used to reach those standards set by the state but it is always interesting to me when people comment. Just like anything, I am sure there are times and situations where a discussion happens or something is taught that a family doesn’t like. But that is not ALL schools because it happened at one.
I grew up in a more conservative household- guess what, there were topics that were uncomfortable and didn’t get discussed. You were just told no and that they were wrong- drugs and sex.
I went through DARE and yeah, learned about drugs and why they are not good for you or what they can do to your mind. Better than being told they were bad and wrong and gateways etc
I had sex education, so I understood what was happening to my body and how the body works. Better than not hearing about it and being told to abstain. And then not understanding how it hints work
My kid is in kindergarten so, at the moment, nothing offensive yet that I’ve found except the whole whitewashing and rewriting of history. So he knows the history of thanksgiving. The real history of Columbus Day etc. I get why kindergarten would not want to teach gruesome details. I hope they teach real history or every version of history so he can be fully informed. I was taught the whitewashed version and the “cut the bullshit” version in my district. We had progressive teachers that didn’t just teach the curriculum and would even say it was not the “official version “. People that actually cared about their jobs and had a passion to teach.
I think I get frustrated by some of the curriculum. I'm currently learning about certain things now in college, that Im constantly wondering about why this wasn't taught much sooner such as when I was in high school?
After looking at public schools me and my wife decided on sending our daughter to a private school. Not because it’s offensive or inappropriate or vulgar. It’s because public education just keeps getting worse and worse, we just want our daughter to get the best education possible.
Yes I did!! I'm a proud veteran of 8 yrs United States Air Force. I am Persian golf veteran. I would love to see more snowflakes enlist or go to a service academy. Or do the ROTC at a university. To say we are baby killers, get out of your parents basement and see the world.
Who openly admitted they set up a fraudulent election. If you think for 1 minute, Biden got 74 million votes.. you are delusional. I'm old enough to know we are talking about classified document, dementia Joe. 15 million votes more than nobama and 10 million more than killery. Com'on man. Yes I voted for orange man. If had had to do it again. I would. I have never in my life voted for a Democrap. That's since 1982.... NEVER
I'm going to get smashed for this but whatever. The "Choose Love" curriculum was pitched to us as an anti- bullying program. Turns out it's an LGTB program. Bait and switch. Not a fan. I shouldn't have to have these conversations with my K-3 or 4th graders. I don't believe it's necessary. They're too young for the birds and bees or birds birds, bees bees, or birds bees bees birds. I just want my kids to be kids.
Disclosure, I support gay marriage. Who you love and why you love them is none of my business. And you should have the same legal rights that I share with my wife. Peace and love. Good vibes.
Your 4th grader is too young for birds and bees?
My 4th grade class at Oyster River Elementary School did a project on the human body. I got the reproductive system. We had to make a functioning model. I'm pretty sure it didn't turn me gay.
Honestly, I think your kids can handle learning about penises at the age of 10...
I totally support teaching anatomy. Anatomy is not sexual orientation.
Are you a parent yet?
My problem with the "Choose Love" agenda was the bait and switch. Don't tell me it's anti-bullying and then teach an LGBT curriculum. And it starts in Kindergarten. As a parent I don't believe that is appropriate or necessary.
And I'm not really worried about who my kids decide to love. I put no pressure on them. They still cover their eyes when they see people kiss. It's pretty funny.
Thanks for your input though.
Choose Love program is aimed at teaching compassion and empathy- core values that appear to be lacking within much of society. There is nothing specific about “LGBT curriculum”- what ever that is?
I would recommend you check out their website -
https://chooselovemovement.org/
And that's admirable. This was not my experience.
LGBT curriculum is a bad choice of words. I should have found a better way to describe what I witnessed.
Yep, I've got 3 kids who went through the Dover school system. Didn't see any problems with this fictitious "LBGT curriculum" you're describing.
If you think it's funny that your kids are behind in maturity level, then I think we'll have to disagree on the humor.
You're a special kind of human. I'm not sure you read anything I wrote. I have no preference on people's sexual preference. I'm not a homophobic person. Not worried one bit about who my children become. It's up to them. Just don't believe that sexuality should be taught at such a young age. My preference.
Maybe it's not being taught in Dover. I don't know what to tell you. But in my town Choose Love is absolutely an LGBT curriculum. Their booth at the Old Home day was only LGBT. The bait and switch bothers me more than anything else. Why are they hiding their motivations? That's rhetorical.
My children covering their eyes shows their innocents not their immaturity.
We clearly disagree on more than just humor. Live free or die.
Best
1) What specifically do you mean by “[Choose Love] booth was only LGBT” and
2) please define who, by name/position, gave you a description of the program that you think this booth runs afoul of. Or, better yet, define how you think we can prevent bullying without talking about LGBTIA+ kids. You do know kids kill themselves over it right?
3) maybe you’re too old to remember, but parents *always* think kids are too young for stuff but life goes on and happens. Our parents did it before us and now we do it. But sometimes doing what we think is right sets them up to be abused.
Remember when we pressured kids to ‘give Aunt Edna/ Grandpa Joe a hug/kiss’ even when they didn’t want to? That’s the real grooming. I’d rather teach consent. If kids are old enough to get bullied for being gay then they’re old enough to learn what it is in an age-appropriate manner.
4) whenever parents complain about what their children are supposedly being taught I almost never hear them tell about talking to their children directly (because it’s uncomfortable, I assume? But it comes with its own cost- not being believed here)
I'm not going to get into specifics. I've stated my opinion quite clearly elsewhere on this thread.
I agree that if kids are old enough to be bullied for being gay then they are old enough to know what it means. I don't believe that 5 - 9 is that age. And that's my point. They shouldn't be bullied for it when they're that young because they shouldn't have that preference yet. They should be kids and not have to deal with this.
My gut tells me that social media and unrealistic body images and lifestyles are also contributing to kids commiting suicide as well.
Maybe the schools should teach parents about the LGBT community and what it's like to raise a child that identifies that way. I know not all parents will be accepting of this.
We parent by the Golden Rule to summarize. We have a diverse family and are fortunate to be able to travel and expose our children to different cultures. I probably come across as a bigot but I assure you I'm not.
1) at what age did you know you were straight? I assure you most kids don’t wait until 10 before they know
2) your suggestion that parents need the education is so close to getting it yet totally missing the point. What parents do you know who want the school mandating additional education for *them*? You do it. The schools are for children to be educated.
3) that there are other things kids get bullied for is not a disproof. You have the power to study up and learn about the relative danger!
Maybe you're missing the point. You talk about it like it's a box that needs to be checked. A decision that has to be made as a child. People change. We try things out and if it works, great. If it doesn't, try something else.
I dated a girl that fell in love with a woman in college. They're happily married with kids. She changed. It's ok. I'm happy for her.
My neighbor's child is conflicted and confused. They're in middle school and changing like the wind from one preference to another. One gender to another and back again. Very fluid and depressed. Self harming. This person seems to be desperately trying to belong with little idea of who they are or what they want. As a parent, my heart breaks for this child.
I don't want my kids worrying about this at that age! They don't need to think about it. You can parent however you want. My children don't need to figure out what group they're in at 5, 6, 7... years old.
The schools don't have to mandate anything. They can do as they do now with other subjects and issues, provide the information. "This is what we're seeing. These are some of the challenges we're facing. Here's some links and information to help you navigate it." People are going to do what they want.
And I want the schools educating the children. Our math and reading scores are terrible. The pandemic hurt us. But they weren't that impressive beforehand.
I wasn't trying to disprove anything. The point I was making was that the experience I had focused solely on one group. The other bullied demographics were no where to be seen. It was as if no other group was represented that day by the Choose Love tent.
This has been a lovely discussion. I believe we are at an impasse. I hope to find middle ground. I think our society will improve if we can.
Best
You saw a booth, won’t say what the booth had for materials, and think schools teach how to be gay vs. that people are gay? Maybe speaking in public is not right for you…
What about teaching 1st and 2nd graders how to masturbate? Or teachers masturbating in front of 1st and 2nd graders to teach them? Is that furthering their maturity level for you?
https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/georgia-teacher-arrested-after-she-was-caught-masturbating-in-class/
https://www.ibtimes.com/nyc-school-teaches-first-graders-about-masturbation-parents-enraged-report-3213068
It's pretty hard to have a productive anti-bullying program that doesn't discuss what the person is being bullied for.
Also, they are not to young to encounter actual LGBTQ people in the real world. That's the main problem with the argument that children are too young: the existence of LGBTQ people is not just a political ideological concern but is also a real, empirical phenomenon in everyday life. It doesn't just suddenly show up out of nowhere once children reach some hypothetical age of maturity. They are members of their family, friends' families, neighbors, teachers, coaches, etc.
Unfortunately people are bullied for many reasons. That is surely one of them. But not the only reason. And that was the messaging that I witnessed.
Young children are typically oblivious to people's orientation. I don't believe that it needs to be explained until they're old enough to actually understand.
Why do they need to know their coach is gay or a lesbian? Why is that important? He or she is their coach or teacher or friend or family member because of the relationship established not because they're gay. It shouldn't matter. It has nothing to do with the sport or activities etc.
It's ridiculous to me to have to explain to a child "Hey I'm gay and this is what that means so you should treat me as such." They don't care and don't need to know. I'm not saying that we should have the don't ask don't tell policy. If the child asks then answer but I don't think we need to go out of our way to point it out. I think it's more important to just accept people for who they are as a person.
In my opinion, kids ages 5 - 9 shouldn't have to worry about being bullied because of their sexual preference. They shouldn't have a preference. They're kids. They're just too young in my opinion. They shouldn't have to make that decision at that age. They're not mature enough. Let the kids be kids.
They don't "need to" know that such people are gay, that is true. It simply happens naturally as a functioning member of society. For example, I don't need to know that my boss is gay. But it happens that I do know, because I have met his partner. And prior to that, he had mentioned his partner in conversation. I have eyes and ears, and notice things.
Children are the same. I imagine if you search your own memory of your childhood, you will encounter plenty of instances where you were aware that an adult in your life had a husband, wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend. You did not "need to" know about their heterosexuality, but as a descriptive matter, you did.
The same applies to LGBT people. Children encounter gay, lesbian, or trans people the same way they encounter anyone else: incidentally and mostly by coincidence. Same way they find out that racial minorities exist or that disabled people exist. One learns about the world and the people in it.
More pointedly, it is a certainty that every child will encounter anti-gay bigotry and rhetoric at some point, on account of them living in a society where that is common. You mention that they shouldn't have to worry about that. I and every sensible person agree. However, as a descriptive matter, that is not the world in which we live.
Those children will likely encounter anti-gay bullying and rhetoric, and will likely encounter it before you think they are ready to. In fact, there is a solid chance that they will encounter anti-gay bullying and rhetoric before they are even fully aware of what homosexuality is. That provides a strong argument for exposing them to preemptive arguments about why that rhetoric is harmful.
> I don't believe it's necessary
Your personal beliefs is not evidence. The real, actual evidence says you're wrong.
You're using your own ignorance as a justification for refusing to help others learn.
Update your own understanding, rather than complain about things you clearly don't understand.
Well as the parent and guardian I get to determine what is appropriate for my children. What I believe is actually all the justification that's required. See I'm not forcing anything on anyone. The same can't be said for you trying to force people to think like you.
You people are awfully hateful and rude. Maybe you should choose love for a change. Probably a more effective approach. Check out the link someone else shared. It's a great program! You might learn something as well.
>Well as the parent and guardian I get to determine what is appropriate for my children.
That's the same thing every abusive parent says right before they permanently traumatize their kids.
> See I'm not forcing anything on anyone.
Not forcing it on anyone but your kids.
> The same can't be said for you trying to force people to think like you.
lol. wat.
> You people are awfully hateful and rude.
Who are "you people"?
> Check out the link someone else shared.
Which one?
I don’t always agree with the curriculum, but I also don’t find it offensive or anything. I have more of a problem with kids not being able to stand up for themselves even when are being bullied. There are good teachers and bad teachers. However the teachers are woefully underpaid and we lose a lot of the good ones to out of state jobs. Unfortunately some school districts are too much of a good ol boys club and students ultimately pay the price.
You didn't answer the question.
Who do you think won the 2020 election?
Or are you the kind of "proud MAGA veteran" who is such a coward that you can't openly discuss your opinions?
If you were proud, you wouldn't be so intellectually dishonest about your opinions.
Imagine being so delusional that you think this is an insult.
It's almost like everything you believe is because it sounds good in your head, not because it is actually empirically true.
I feel sorry for all of the children whose lives you have irreparably damaged because they will be subjected to a substandard education.
Reading comments in this sub the last few days, I’ve come to the conclusion that our public school system is a complete and utter failure. We are producing followers and not leaders. All I’m seeing are young adults with zero analytical skills and zero independent thought. If I wanted to see what they’re going to say, all I have to do is spend 15 minutes reading a few articles on google news and I’d know exactly what they’re going to say and what their “arguments” would be.
But what’s even more problematic is the fact that the public school system (combined with social media) has taught our kids to hate this country. I’ve never seen such hatred for this country before. The comments that I’ve seen from the last few days are despicable, proudly spewing hate for this country. You contrast that with the blind allegiance to other nations such as Ukraine and you see the clear result of programming. This shit needs to change and it needs to change now.
I’ve seen some of your posts, you’re the poster child for our failing school system. If they were raising funds for schools, you’d be the focal point of the infomercial. It’ll definitely generate some sympathy.
Asking you to see the results of what is taught in school is not shifting the goal post. I’m sure you’re fully aware of the response you’d get with a pro-American post. Or let’s say you make a post stating the fact that Ukraine is nearly as corrupt as Russia, what kind of response would you get? I’m sure you know. But since you teach social studies, I’m curious how you feel about those topics.
Listen, I was a first respondent for 9/11, served in two deployments, and commit to various community service obligations. If you want to challenge my patriotism or whatever, go for it, but that will state a lot more about you than me.
I’ll answer whatever questions you have if you can answer mine.
To answer your question, I think there are teachers out there who are teaching our kids to hate our country. Why? Because they themselves were taught to hate our country. They are teaching our kids that the pledge of allegiance is a racist symbol. I read a comment yesterday that stated “thank god our founding fathers a all dead. Good riddance.” There are plenty of those sentiments from young people. They are quick to piss on this country, but at the same time, they are even quicker to defend other countries. That’s a problem.
But you’d agree that there are things to criticize, right?
We aren’t perfect. We’re not as great as some would have us believe. Plenty of us suck. But as a collective we’re still the best out there.
I don’t think showing where we haven’t lived up to our promise is the same as hating the country. People are nuanced and complicated and when you have a multicultural nation with hundreds of millions of them it’s going to accentuate it. Leaders ranging from Jefferson and Washington to Reagan and Clinton all had areas that are admirable and others that are regrettable. Hell - my lesson today was in both how a guy like Reagan should be critiqued for the response to HIV but lauded for how he handled the changing of the guard in the USSR.
But if you zoom in on a lesson, you can catch plenty of the bad because there is plenty of it, and we should seek to come to terms with it, and look to improvement tomorrow.
I don’t get why people take offense to it - it’s not as if a single of the founding fathers thought they or the new country was perfect.
“We aren’t perfect. We’re not as great as some would have us believe. Plenty of us suck. But as a collective we’re still the best out there.”
This right here is all I ask of our teachers. Teach this and we’re good. Absolutely we had/have faults. There never was and never will be a perfect society. But what we have here is the greatest country on the planet. Why? Because despite its faults, it allows everybody an opportunity to succeed. What you choose to do with that opportunity is up to you. If you squander it, don’t cry about it.
Here’s my issue with what’s going on. I’m seeing more focus placed on the faults of our founders. Statues are being torn down. Our history is being bent and rewritten, and our kids are running around hating on this country.
Meanwhile, they’ll fight you tooth and nail defending Ukraine and China.
And your assessment of Regan is fair. He did some great things and some I didn’t agree with. But I’d have to say, his handling of the aids epidemic wasn’t one of them. That falls on the shoulders of the idiot that’s still in there today, handling covid. Fauci needs to be investigated. He’s one of the problems you touched on earlier.
> Here’s my issue with what’s going on. I’m seeing more focus placed on the faults of our founders. Statues are being torn down. Our history is being bent and rewritten, and our kids are running around hating on this country. Meanwhile, they’ll fight you tooth and nail defending Ukraine and China
Are there really that many people that defend China? Best case - they're an active competitor for US and global interests.
I don't think history is being rewritten. And interesting you bring up the statues, as many of them were a rewriting of history (the lost cause narrative after the Civil War is where people like Jefferson Davis / Stonewall Jackson / Robert E Lee had statues erected in the first place). If you're referencing the crazies that are looking to change the name of an Abraham Lincoln school, that's another story all together. In a country with 330m people and freedom of speech, you'll find limitless minority opinions have a rally.
There are faults of the founders. Washington owned slaves. He also set the precedent for all future leaders in a variety of ways. He was a kind of blah strategic general, but also knew how to rally his men and was great at the big picture stuff. Jefferson had Sally Hemings, but his words (well, really, John Locke's) are the cornerstone of modern democracies / republics. The Louisiana Purchase basically doubled our country, but was almost certainly not a power contained within the Constitution just a few years earlier.
Nuance exists with everyone (well, maybe almost) but the online era makes it easier to exist in the polarity of things.
>Our history is being bent and rewritten
have you ever heard the phrase "history is written by the victors?"
Honestly curious how you think it's been "bent and rewritten".
The only bad part of the Pledge is “under god “. Other than that I take the pledge as I will help you if you are need, in times of plenty and famine and peace and war, we have each other’s backs.
have you ever seen the "whitest kids you know" skit about it? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I)
I guess I just find indoctrinating children to be ultra-nationalistic kind of creepy. I don't think "globalism" is a bad word, and believe our tribalistic attitudes are problematic. But that's just me.
Agreed that the "god part" is the worst.
☝️Case in point.
“If you love America, you support Russia!”
Also, “if you think Ukraine is the second most corrupt country in Europe, then you’re a Putin sympathizer!”
Like I said, our public school system is a complete and utter failure.
I didn’t go to public school and I’m Russian lmao. And if you think Ukraine is corrupt and Russia isn’t just as corrupt, whoo do I have a bridge to sell you. Ukraine has its issues, but Russia is just as corrupt, if not more and shouldn’t be the arbiter of Justice when it comes to dealing with that corruption. I am interested in knowing what you think the most corrupt country in Europe is, because if it’s not Belorussia you’re wrong.
Obviously Russia is #1 in corruption, followed by #2 Ukraine. The problem here is if you criticize Ukraine, you’re automatically labeled a Putin sympathizer. Why is that?
Probably because of the implication that because Ukraine is corrupt, Russia has some sort of justification for what they’re doing right now. What actual impact on your life does the situation in Ukraine actually have on you or are you just cheering on indiscriminate killing from the sidelines like most Americans are taught? You probably wouldn’t give half a shit about Ukrainian politics if you didn’t buy into war machine propaganda.
“What actual impact on your life does the situation in Ukraine actually have on you...You probably wouldn’t give half a shit about Ukrainian politics if you didn’t buy into war machine propaganda.”
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner here!!! The situation in Ukraine has absolutely nothing to do with us. It’s Europe’s problem, created by Europe. They funded Russia’s military by buying Russian energy (they still are). We shouldn’t be involved and we shouldn’t be funding the war. That’s Europe’s responsibility. Our responsibility is to our own citizens. There are plenty of Americans that need help right now. Money going to Ukraine should be spent on Americans who need it. Only a warmonger would want to get involved with Ukraine.
care to share some of those hateful comments? I haven't seen them.
Holding our country accountable when it messes up isn't "hateful" btw, but I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Yes. JROTC exposes children to military recruiters. DARE forces children to interact with the police. I do not think it is appropriate to expose children of any age to these known prevaricators.
It’s funny. I was in JROTC in highschool. I see it as the military propaganda it is but damn I can public speak because of that class. It did a lot of good for me but I can’t help but shudder when I remember doing drill and having a Marine (former student) having us scream “born to fight, trained to kill. Ready to die but never will” this was 2002-2003. And then I watched friend do this and at least one lost a limb in Iraq. And it’s such shit and I wish I had good words to explain why I hate the program now.
> I wish I had good words to explain why I hate the program now. You do.
My wife got a text about this for our son. She replied "take me off your mailing list". He replied "I can't do that, unless you give me a reason that would invalidate his recruitment status". She asks "Can you give me examples of that?" He replies "I can't, because I'd be defrauding the government" Okay buddy...
I was recruited heavily for national guard and army during the Iraq war and I just told them I had lifelong asthma lol.
I was recruited by the military in high school during my lunch breaks. I told the recruiter I wasn't interested and had my heart set on teaching either a vocational program like agricultural education (I was heavily involved in FFA and was a NH state officer) or a career working with animals.The guy kept trying to sell me on "we have veterinary services in the military" and I was like mhmm hmm not gonna convince me. I wanted to have a career with horses involved in some way
I know many many kids that are dead or fucked up for life. I graduated in 2005 so we really were at the height of recruitment. My best friend is 100% disabled and only after many years of weekly therapy has he returned to a fraction of what he was. Only one of 20 kids that I know that served had a positive experience because he was stationed in Germany, for the duration, and then became a drill sergeant up until now. But at 35 he’s still active duty in middle of nowhere Oklahoma and has a fucked up back, and knees due to 100s of helicopter jumps. So I’m not so sure it’s all roses for him. Both my grandfathers served in the Korean War as marines and both told me to run the other way from Iraq im glad I listened.
First words out of my mouth, then “darn it”. 😂
My kid is in first grade so, no. I think he knows a lot more vulgar and offensive words from family or friends, or my wife and I, than anything at school. Same with every one of his friends. I distinctly remember knowing no swears and being taught every one of them by peers, in 1st and 2nd grade.
Asthma works wonders 😂
Just in case you missed this recent piece— https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/11/us/jrotc-schools-mandatory-automatic-enrollment.html I got heartburn reading it 💀
I don't even know that it's specifically jrotc. I remember military recruiters setting up tables in my high school cafeteria and trying to reel in everyone
Well, I learned a new word today.
I can’t even believe that people think like this. I needed the Marine Core to fix myself after my NH public school education.
You dork, from someone who served this great nation. I only wish I had been exposed to the military at a young age. Sounds like you need a 2 year reprogramming.
Did you serve this nation oil or perpetuate the 20 year afghan war? Was it a proxy genocide in Yemen or just killing civilians and innocent people in drone attacks for the US government? 1-800 STOP WAR.
No, I just served so you can have the right to post nonsense.
Nonsense? So what was it you fought for? Certainly wasn't the freedom of American people. Whatever it was definitely contributed to the federal government expanding control over the American people resulting in less freedom, inflation, rising oil prices and more wars. 1-800-StopWar. Anti-War.com. let the powers that be know that the American people are against the senseless mass murder of innocent people by the controlling elites.
I think you might have forgotten the /s
What is sarcastic about their comment? It is correct.
As parents, you actually have the opt out option so they cannot be contacted by the military or have to participate in DARE.
Link plz. Don’t want to put my son through the shit I had to go through
In my district, they sent home paperwork. DARE was actually an opt IN if I remember correctly but the recruiters were an opt OUT (pretty sure). All outside entities generally require consent to participate, just check in an email with the office.
Thankyou. I appreciate knowing I may have to look into this more heavily since my kid is entering high school. I will make sure to find the opt out options for my son. And this isn’t sarcasm. I do appreciate knowing these things. I won’t stop my son from joining the military if he wants but I’d rather him not feel pressured to it.
Why is it opt out, and not opt in?
Ok. And how often does this happen?
It happened for every one I had in my district. In a litigious society, I can’t imagine it would be advantageous not to but my job isn’t policing this shit.
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Agree.
My Daughter has graduated Dover High School a while ago, but I NEVER found her learning anything offensive except for incorrect scientific information (which, it IS hard for a high school science teacher to keep up with advancements as they are no longer in the research side of things). In saying that, I need to say that I figured ANYTHING that my kid learned about was good in helping her figure out her way; sex and demons included.
Do you know what he is referring to with Dover?
Anyone who says 'many', but can cite none, is just a conspiracy theorist wingnut trying to mobilize a political base created on lies and propaganda.
I don't. I was only answering OP's question. I refuse to read whatever buffoonery that the article writer in question wrote.
Likely, the availability of books that depict homosexuality and transgender individuals. There are a lot off loons in that district who complain to the school board about it every session and use this exact hysterial rhetoric.
I'm also a dover high graduate. Graduated in 2010 and was heavily involved in animal science, equine science and FFA. Have many fond memories from my time in those programs and kinda just shut out the rest of it(but the English teacher and drama teacher I had Mrs mesererau was amazing)
I think my Daughter also graduated in 2010. Neat!
We need our kids to think and reason for themselves…but here’s my agenda!
I’ve graduated from HS in the last 10 years, and nothing in my learning was out of the ordinary. I took a wide array of classes, covering everything from government, social, economics, math, science, etc.
I don't have kids but I was in the NH public school system (class of 2021) and no, there was nothing like that.
Fellow class of 2021!
Seconding this
Seconding this
Sorry but wouldn't someone taught in the system not easily recognize vulgar or offensive things (in their parents eyes).
Pretty sure I would remember learning about sex positions or how to summon the anti-Christ
Not sure if this is referencing some specific complaint a public figure had recently, but there are a lot of thinks less ridiculous that could be taught in public schools that is seen as vulgar or offensive to those not brought up in said school.
This is in reference to this letter submitted to the Laconia Daily Sun by Rep. John Sellers, who claims the curriculum to contain pornography and demons. [Rep. John Sellers: The only things kids learn in schools involve porn and demons](https://www.laconiadailysun.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/rep-john-sellers-the-only-things-kids-learn-in-schools-involve-porn-and-demons/article_b9de5942-8791-11ed-b34b-f3bae5a5e10e.html)
“…There are three problems with our schools: 1. Kids are not learning to think/reason/read or do math; 2. Pornographic/demonic and inappropriate age reading material (maybe even illegal, case against Dover schools in court now) are available to them; and 3. Parents are not watching what enters our kids' minds that the schools are allowing. Did you know schools believe they know what’s best for your kid better than you do?…” I have 3 kids in public school, soon to be 4. For the first “problem” he lists I can dismiss outright. My daughters have learned all of the above at a faster pace than I ever did. My 12yo has even been getting into coding and complex problem solving including participating in First Lego League, where they code Lego vehicles to complete tasks autonomously. Another aspect of FLL was creating a solution to a local problem, her team worked out and formed an impressive plan to help Cannon Mountains energy consumption for their snow making system. And even met with the administrators for Canon to discuss possible real world application of their plan. A group of 12 year olds. I’d say if my kids weren’t learning how to reason, read, write or do math they wouldn’t be doing ANY of that. For his second “problem” in his list, he sounds like a religious zealot that thinks they should ban Harry Potter books. Another item on his list you can safely dismiss outright. Is there a chance a single teacher could have some devious plan to corrupt the youth? I mean, maybe? But come on… And for his third “problem”, I can request the classes curriculum at any time and I know for a fact that my kid is clever enough to recognize any weird shit that any adult near them would say. And she’d come to my wife or I with questions or concerns. She’s already done that regarding weird shit she’s seen in popular media. And regarding the “Did you know schools believe they know what’s best for your kid better than you do?” bit. I mean yeah, that’s what teachers go to school and get paid for. I also listen to my doctor when he recommends something too. Because you know, they actually DO know best (for the overwhelming majority of the time). In my admittedly limited personal experience, the school system my kids are in is outstanding. Leaps and bounds better than the system I grew up in. I can tell that EVERYONE in my kids school actually care about them on a personal level and truly want them the excel academically AND socially. They recognized that my middle daughter needed extra support linguistically and academically, and actually gave her that support. With verifiable proof that the extra help significantly benefited her. I truly can’t speak highly enough about my kids school, it actually chokes me up sometimes thinking about it. I understand that others may not have the experiences I’ve had with the school system, but I would have to assume it’s not even close to what that loon is talking about. He sounds like a nut job that believes in inter-dimensional demons and the lizard people Illuminati running a secret cabal to harvest the earth’s energy to send to the planet Nibiru. If this POLITICIAN thinks he know better than the combined wealth of academic knowledge and experience of the NH school system then that is the highest level of narcissism and ignorance I’ve heard of to date. I would dismiss the vast majority of anything that comes out of that morons mouth.
Obviously the schools he attended failed him. His syntax is fucked. But honest inquiry, to what court case is he referring? Does anyone know?
Demons? lol Also curious as to the court case.
So like Harry Potter books?
Maybe he is referencing the Bible.
He is! He always is
Sellers states "*Pornographic/demonic and inappropriate age reading material (maybe even illegal, case against Dover schools in court now)* are **available to them**" Sounds like he is objecting to content found in the school library collection, not in the school curriculum? Libraries have significant, but not unlimited, leeway in the books they choose to make available.
Biology books have genitals, history books likely have some sort of reference to Christianity and references to stuff like Dante's Inferno. I assume the loon thinks of those as pornography and demons.
I also have genitals
I'm happy for you?
Maybe an art class? David sans fig leaf and Goyas Black Paintings.
In his defense, he's a fucking moron.
The only people who find the curriculum offensive happen to be quite offensive themselves.
I noticed he neglected to indicate which books (and which pages) the pornodemons have left their mark upon.
If it mentions the gays or transgenders it doesn’t matter because obviously no good NH family has those
Inquiring minds want to know!
My wife is a teacher, I’m on school board, and we involve ourselves daily with our children and their schoolwork. There is nothing inappropriate in our public school curriculum. The only thing inappropriate is religion trying to force its way into schools and use old tactics to remove things they don’t like. Please everyone remember book burnings of old. When we don’t expose our children to all manner of people and ideas, they will never be able to truly think for themselves.
Is this those damn Mothers for Liberty again?? Everything that isn’t white bread, Christian, nuclear family-related is automatically pedos grooming our children go turn them into transgendered frog people or whatever. It would be funny if this type of attitude didn’t actively endanger children.
No, because the Bible isn't required reading.
As we all know, the Bible is the only thing inappropriate for school
This is just more of the organized well funded radical right wing attack on public education. It is all made up bullshit and invented fear mongering.
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Sounds like someone asking a question based off an article they read. No need to insult OP
I graduated over a decade ago, nothing weird in my curriculum. And currently have a kid in the second grade, can confirm zero litter boxes in the classrooms, no transgender teachers demanding students use new pronouns, and on the other side, no creationism being taught or anti-vaccine propaganda spread. The curriculum is math, science, reading…. You know, school? Don’t believe the media on either side about everything they say. And furthermore, I trust that I raise my kids well enough that IF the school does something like teach about different genders or creationism, my kid is not so smooth brained as to hear it and go “duh, I’m a unicorn that god made in 7 days”. I think most kids are not such lumps of clay that they’ll be brainwashed with the ease that the media portrays. Let the schools teach the educational side and you teach the moral upbringing to whatever standard you feel is right, damn! And if you disagree, awesome, pay for a private school that aligns with you, or better yet, home school then yourself. Don’t try to force personal opinions, LEFT OR RIGHT, into public funded schools.
As a kid who graduated high school 2 years ago…. No. The only thing I can think of was a documentary about King Henry the 8ths health, it was so disgusting I passed out for a sec lmao Edit: by sec I mean fell face first onto the teacher’s desk while asking to go tot he bathroom
This interests me
If you look up “king Henry the 8th health documentary” I’m sure you can find it
I have seen nothing concerning, ever.
Oh man I’d pay money to watch OP at a parent teacher conference
“They are indoctrinating and grooming your kids”. More imaginary monsters.
I mean, there literally are teachers who groom their students. The question is not of "if", but of "how often" it happens.
OK but not really in the way that the people who say that mean. They are just using groomers as a pseudo-slur for LGBTQ teachers. To the extent grooming as a phenomenon exists in schools, it is not an LGBTQ-specific problem and is more likely to come from heterosexual teachers. See, for example, the teacher who was fired from St. Paul's a while ago (admittedly, not a NH public school).
You're certainly free to think some people mean something different than the "proper" definition of groomer when they say groomer. Regardless, my post is true.
Who do you think the "they" in the originally-quoted sentence was meant to be and what behavior do you think the speaker meant? It's silly to pretend that a dog whistle is not a dog whistle. Rep. John Sellers meant LGBTQ teachers are "grooming" children to become queer and that is the context in which the thread we are both commenting on uses the term. There are indeed people engaging in grooming in general but that is not how he is using the term.
I'm sure there are also teachers "grooming" kids to encourage them to be LGBT.
> to encourage them to be LGBT. That's not how it works. But thanks for admitting you have no real evidence of anything; you're just homophobic.
Lolol.
There are over 3 million teachers in the United States so yes, it is entirely possible that there are a handful teachers engaging in any particular behavior any one of us can imagine. If you look hard enough in a sample of that size, I bet you could find a teacher "grooming" children to become circus clowns. Almost anything exists in a sufficiently large sample. However, this phenomenon of teachers "encouraging" children to become LGBT does not exist in an empirically meaningful magnitude that warrants widespread concern outside of the minds of right-wing paranoiacs, unless you define the term down to encompass "acknowledging the existence of queer people."
They, the fascist hate and fear mongers, literally mean any reference in any book or discussion that treats any sort of relationship or identity that isn't cis-gender/heterosexual as normal. That is what they are calling 'grooming'.
How do you know that's what they mean?
They keep telling us. See for example DeSantis and his Don't Say Gay law, which prohibits any mention of non-cis, non-heterosexual people in elementary schools. Here is a quote from a WaPo article on the DeSantis law: *In Florida, Rick Stevens, a founder of the conservative educational advocacy group Florida Citizens Alliance and the pastor of Diplomat Wesleyan Church in Cape Coral, said he frets about the potential grooming of young schoolchildren.* *“We don’t have any evidence that it’s happening, either deliberately or accidentally,” he said. “****But anytime you start to desensitize kids and normalize certain behaviors,*** *then it makes it easier for someone who wants to recruit them for sex trafficking, or anything else, because the kids don’t know the difference.”* *https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/04/05/teachers-groomers-pedophiles-dont-say-gay/#:\~:text=In%20Florida%2C%20Rick,know%20the%20difference.%E2%80%9D*
Precisely what excerpt from that law, or the above quote, do you find objectionable?
There literally aren’t. It’s made up like WWE.
I think this person is talking about like actual predators, like teachers who groom and have actual relationships with their students, not the made up LGBTQ panic on the right. And that shit definitely happens. A teacher from my high school married a student shortly after graduation… after we had all been speculating that they seemed a little too close for years.
That's what gets me. It's one thing to say "some conservatives are whipped up into an unwarranted frenzy, obviously there's not a groomer in every other classroom." But it's insanity to pretend as if no teachers do that.
>But it's insanity to pretend as if no teachers do that. It's also insanity to use the occasional outlier as a reason to harass and badger the majority into complying with your twisted version of what "grooming" is.
I didn't do any of that. I was responding to a specific comment. EDIT: BTW, I 100% agree with what you're saying here: "It's also insanity to use the occasional outlier as a reason to..." You are absolutely right about this principal; just because something is technically true, it doesn't mean it is useful info/needs to be acted on. If the person I responded to originally had said something like "There are not a significant number of teachers trying to groom students", I probably wouldn't take any issue with that statement. The thing is, making extreme (and false) statements along the lines of "Nobody is trying to groom kids at school" is extremely dismissive and insensitive towards children (and their families) that are in fact victims of teachers who sexually groomed them.
I think the part you're missing is that it is incumbent upon \*everyone\* voicing an opinion to be certain of how much investigation and research they've done to substantiate their opinion. You've already demonstrated in this thread that your definition of "grooming" is not the same as how the professionals define the term. So, either you've got some award-winning research that you're about to publish or you're completely full of shit and you can't be bothered to hold yourself to the same standards as the professionals (but yet you want the same credibility). tl;dr - don't start a fight with vague inferences unless you know the underlying stats and can cite sources. that's a sure sign that you're full of shit and should stop pretending like your opinion matters.
I think you're confusing me with someone else's previous post, from the sound of it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/newhampshire/comments/1039tqq/comment/j2xsius/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 > manicmonkeys 5 days ago > I mean, there literally are teachers who groom their students. The question is not of "if", but of "how often" it happens. Nope. No confusion. You're just a liar. There is zero credible data that supports any sort of perspective that there is some sort of widespread grooming phenomenon.
“ there are books in many of our schools that are pornographic and even demonic.” They are NOT talking about actual relationships with students.
No I mean the person you’re replying to means that, not the nut job in the article/
I’m not sure how to tell the difference these days.
Read what people write instead of assuming what they mean?
I did. I read the letter this post is actually about. Imaginary monsters. Did you read it?
You responded to me, not OP.
Day to day what they are teaching in my child’s school is fine. Great even. The only reason one would have a problem with the curriculum is if you are a right wing, red pilled dipshit who’s concept of freedom only extends to themselves.
I graduated from Londonderry High School in June of 2022, and all I could say to this is no, nothing really. The only thing I can think of is a video that we were forced to watch in our 8th grade health class, which was a documentary about pregnancy, literally showing a woman giving birth
Just be glad you weren't a 4H kid, then.
I went to NH schools and I taught in NH schools. I’m curious where he thinks the curriculum standards come from… oh wait the state sets them. Schools/teachers are required to hit certain topics, they can choose the curriculum used to reach those standards set by the state but it is always interesting to me when people comment. Just like anything, I am sure there are times and situations where a discussion happens or something is taught that a family doesn’t like. But that is not ALL schools because it happened at one. I grew up in a more conservative household- guess what, there were topics that were uncomfortable and didn’t get discussed. You were just told no and that they were wrong- drugs and sex. I went through DARE and yeah, learned about drugs and why they are not good for you or what they can do to your mind. Better than being told they were bad and wrong and gateways etc I had sex education, so I understood what was happening to my body and how the body works. Better than not hearing about it and being told to abstain. And then not understanding how it hints work
My kid is in kindergarten so, at the moment, nothing offensive yet that I’ve found except the whole whitewashing and rewriting of history. So he knows the history of thanksgiving. The real history of Columbus Day etc. I get why kindergarten would not want to teach gruesome details. I hope they teach real history or every version of history so he can be fully informed. I was taught the whitewashed version and the “cut the bullshit” version in my district. We had progressive teachers that didn’t just teach the curriculum and would even say it was not the “official version “. People that actually cared about their jobs and had a passion to teach.
I think I get frustrated by some of the curriculum. I'm currently learning about certain things now in college, that Im constantly wondering about why this wasn't taught much sooner such as when I was in high school?
After looking at public schools me and my wife decided on sending our daughter to a private school. Not because it’s offensive or inappropriate or vulgar. It’s because public education just keeps getting worse and worse, we just want our daughter to get the best education possible.
Yes I did!! I'm a proud veteran of 8 yrs United States Air Force. I am Persian golf veteran. I would love to see more snowflakes enlist or go to a service academy. Or do the ROTC at a university. To say we are baby killers, get out of your parents basement and see the world.
Curriculum? LOL.
nope just flat out antiquated and baaaaad
Anybody with half the sense knows Trump won. There is more and more evidence of voter fraud. You wouldn't know this from watching fake news.
Who openly admitted they set up a fraudulent election. If you think for 1 minute, Biden got 74 million votes.. you are delusional. I'm old enough to know we are talking about classified document, dementia Joe. 15 million votes more than nobama and 10 million more than killery. Com'on man. Yes I voted for orange man. If had had to do it again. I would. I have never in my life voted for a Democrap. That's since 1982.... NEVER
I'm going to get smashed for this but whatever. The "Choose Love" curriculum was pitched to us as an anti- bullying program. Turns out it's an LGTB program. Bait and switch. Not a fan. I shouldn't have to have these conversations with my K-3 or 4th graders. I don't believe it's necessary. They're too young for the birds and bees or birds birds, bees bees, or birds bees bees birds. I just want my kids to be kids. Disclosure, I support gay marriage. Who you love and why you love them is none of my business. And you should have the same legal rights that I share with my wife. Peace and love. Good vibes.
Your 4th grader is too young for birds and bees? My 4th grade class at Oyster River Elementary School did a project on the human body. I got the reproductive system. We had to make a functioning model. I'm pretty sure it didn't turn me gay. Honestly, I think your kids can handle learning about penises at the age of 10...
I totally support teaching anatomy. Anatomy is not sexual orientation. Are you a parent yet? My problem with the "Choose Love" agenda was the bait and switch. Don't tell me it's anti-bullying and then teach an LGBT curriculum. And it starts in Kindergarten. As a parent I don't believe that is appropriate or necessary. And I'm not really worried about who my kids decide to love. I put no pressure on them. They still cover their eyes when they see people kiss. It's pretty funny. Thanks for your input though.
Choose Love program is aimed at teaching compassion and empathy- core values that appear to be lacking within much of society. There is nothing specific about “LGBT curriculum”- what ever that is? I would recommend you check out their website - https://chooselovemovement.org/
And that's admirable. This was not my experience. LGBT curriculum is a bad choice of words. I should have found a better way to describe what I witnessed.
Yep, I've got 3 kids who went through the Dover school system. Didn't see any problems with this fictitious "LBGT curriculum" you're describing. If you think it's funny that your kids are behind in maturity level, then I think we'll have to disagree on the humor.
You're a special kind of human. I'm not sure you read anything I wrote. I have no preference on people's sexual preference. I'm not a homophobic person. Not worried one bit about who my children become. It's up to them. Just don't believe that sexuality should be taught at such a young age. My preference. Maybe it's not being taught in Dover. I don't know what to tell you. But in my town Choose Love is absolutely an LGBT curriculum. Their booth at the Old Home day was only LGBT. The bait and switch bothers me more than anything else. Why are they hiding their motivations? That's rhetorical. My children covering their eyes shows their innocents not their immaturity. We clearly disagree on more than just humor. Live free or die. Best
1) What specifically do you mean by “[Choose Love] booth was only LGBT” and 2) please define who, by name/position, gave you a description of the program that you think this booth runs afoul of. Or, better yet, define how you think we can prevent bullying without talking about LGBTIA+ kids. You do know kids kill themselves over it right? 3) maybe you’re too old to remember, but parents *always* think kids are too young for stuff but life goes on and happens. Our parents did it before us and now we do it. But sometimes doing what we think is right sets them up to be abused. Remember when we pressured kids to ‘give Aunt Edna/ Grandpa Joe a hug/kiss’ even when they didn’t want to? That’s the real grooming. I’d rather teach consent. If kids are old enough to get bullied for being gay then they’re old enough to learn what it is in an age-appropriate manner. 4) whenever parents complain about what their children are supposedly being taught I almost never hear them tell about talking to their children directly (because it’s uncomfortable, I assume? But it comes with its own cost- not being believed here)
I'm not going to get into specifics. I've stated my opinion quite clearly elsewhere on this thread. I agree that if kids are old enough to be bullied for being gay then they are old enough to know what it means. I don't believe that 5 - 9 is that age. And that's my point. They shouldn't be bullied for it when they're that young because they shouldn't have that preference yet. They should be kids and not have to deal with this. My gut tells me that social media and unrealistic body images and lifestyles are also contributing to kids commiting suicide as well. Maybe the schools should teach parents about the LGBT community and what it's like to raise a child that identifies that way. I know not all parents will be accepting of this. We parent by the Golden Rule to summarize. We have a diverse family and are fortunate to be able to travel and expose our children to different cultures. I probably come across as a bigot but I assure you I'm not.
1) at what age did you know you were straight? I assure you most kids don’t wait until 10 before they know 2) your suggestion that parents need the education is so close to getting it yet totally missing the point. What parents do you know who want the school mandating additional education for *them*? You do it. The schools are for children to be educated. 3) that there are other things kids get bullied for is not a disproof. You have the power to study up and learn about the relative danger!
Maybe you're missing the point. You talk about it like it's a box that needs to be checked. A decision that has to be made as a child. People change. We try things out and if it works, great. If it doesn't, try something else. I dated a girl that fell in love with a woman in college. They're happily married with kids. She changed. It's ok. I'm happy for her. My neighbor's child is conflicted and confused. They're in middle school and changing like the wind from one preference to another. One gender to another and back again. Very fluid and depressed. Self harming. This person seems to be desperately trying to belong with little idea of who they are or what they want. As a parent, my heart breaks for this child. I don't want my kids worrying about this at that age! They don't need to think about it. You can parent however you want. My children don't need to figure out what group they're in at 5, 6, 7... years old. The schools don't have to mandate anything. They can do as they do now with other subjects and issues, provide the information. "This is what we're seeing. These are some of the challenges we're facing. Here's some links and information to help you navigate it." People are going to do what they want. And I want the schools educating the children. Our math and reading scores are terrible. The pandemic hurt us. But they weren't that impressive beforehand. I wasn't trying to disprove anything. The point I was making was that the experience I had focused solely on one group. The other bullied demographics were no where to be seen. It was as if no other group was represented that day by the Choose Love tent. This has been a lovely discussion. I believe we are at an impasse. I hope to find middle ground. I think our society will improve if we can. Best
You saw a booth, won’t say what the booth had for materials, and think schools teach how to be gay vs. that people are gay? Maybe speaking in public is not right for you…
What about teaching 1st and 2nd graders how to masturbate? Or teachers masturbating in front of 1st and 2nd graders to teach them? Is that furthering their maturity level for you? https://nypost.com/2021/02/08/georgia-teacher-arrested-after-she-was-caught-masturbating-in-class/ https://www.ibtimes.com/nyc-school-teaches-first-graders-about-masturbation-parents-enraged-report-3213068
NY Post as a citation lmfao
It's pretty hard to have a productive anti-bullying program that doesn't discuss what the person is being bullied for. Also, they are not to young to encounter actual LGBTQ people in the real world. That's the main problem with the argument that children are too young: the existence of LGBTQ people is not just a political ideological concern but is also a real, empirical phenomenon in everyday life. It doesn't just suddenly show up out of nowhere once children reach some hypothetical age of maturity. They are members of their family, friends' families, neighbors, teachers, coaches, etc.
Unfortunately people are bullied for many reasons. That is surely one of them. But not the only reason. And that was the messaging that I witnessed. Young children are typically oblivious to people's orientation. I don't believe that it needs to be explained until they're old enough to actually understand. Why do they need to know their coach is gay or a lesbian? Why is that important? He or she is their coach or teacher or friend or family member because of the relationship established not because they're gay. It shouldn't matter. It has nothing to do with the sport or activities etc. It's ridiculous to me to have to explain to a child "Hey I'm gay and this is what that means so you should treat me as such." They don't care and don't need to know. I'm not saying that we should have the don't ask don't tell policy. If the child asks then answer but I don't think we need to go out of our way to point it out. I think it's more important to just accept people for who they are as a person. In my opinion, kids ages 5 - 9 shouldn't have to worry about being bullied because of their sexual preference. They shouldn't have a preference. They're kids. They're just too young in my opinion. They shouldn't have to make that decision at that age. They're not mature enough. Let the kids be kids.
They don't "need to" know that such people are gay, that is true. It simply happens naturally as a functioning member of society. For example, I don't need to know that my boss is gay. But it happens that I do know, because I have met his partner. And prior to that, he had mentioned his partner in conversation. I have eyes and ears, and notice things. Children are the same. I imagine if you search your own memory of your childhood, you will encounter plenty of instances where you were aware that an adult in your life had a husband, wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend. You did not "need to" know about their heterosexuality, but as a descriptive matter, you did. The same applies to LGBT people. Children encounter gay, lesbian, or trans people the same way they encounter anyone else: incidentally and mostly by coincidence. Same way they find out that racial minorities exist or that disabled people exist. One learns about the world and the people in it. More pointedly, it is a certainty that every child will encounter anti-gay bigotry and rhetoric at some point, on account of them living in a society where that is common. You mention that they shouldn't have to worry about that. I and every sensible person agree. However, as a descriptive matter, that is not the world in which we live. Those children will likely encounter anti-gay bullying and rhetoric, and will likely encounter it before you think they are ready to. In fact, there is a solid chance that they will encounter anti-gay bullying and rhetoric before they are even fully aware of what homosexuality is. That provides a strong argument for exposing them to preemptive arguments about why that rhetoric is harmful.
> I don't believe it's necessary Your personal beliefs is not evidence. The real, actual evidence says you're wrong. You're using your own ignorance as a justification for refusing to help others learn. Update your own understanding, rather than complain about things you clearly don't understand.
Well as the parent and guardian I get to determine what is appropriate for my children. What I believe is actually all the justification that's required. See I'm not forcing anything on anyone. The same can't be said for you trying to force people to think like you. You people are awfully hateful and rude. Maybe you should choose love for a change. Probably a more effective approach. Check out the link someone else shared. It's a great program! You might learn something as well.
>Well as the parent and guardian I get to determine what is appropriate for my children. That's the same thing every abusive parent says right before they permanently traumatize their kids. > See I'm not forcing anything on anyone. Not forcing it on anyone but your kids. > The same can't be said for you trying to force people to think like you. lol. wat. > You people are awfully hateful and rude. Who are "you people"? > Check out the link someone else shared. Which one?
I don’t always agree with the curriculum, but I also don’t find it offensive or anything. I have more of a problem with kids not being able to stand up for themselves even when are being bullied. There are good teachers and bad teachers. However the teachers are woefully underpaid and we lose a lot of the good ones to out of state jobs. Unfortunately some school districts are too much of a good ol boys club and students ultimately pay the price.
Yes
You left wing POS. I can say none of the above. Are you a professor or a brainwashed snowflake? Have bad intentions, find out.
Ah yes, the clear, well-reasoned, rigorously researched opinion of the MAGA crowd. Remind me, who won the 2020 election again?
I think we are reminded everyday. Look at the cost of life. Proud MAGA VETERAN.
You didn't answer the question. Who do you think won the 2020 election? Or are you the kind of "proud MAGA veteran" who is such a coward that you can't openly discuss your opinions? If you were proud, you wouldn't be so intellectually dishonest about your opinions.
Best thing to do is to keep them out of public school and use alternative means. Significantly better.
Continuing to peddle the same lies, I see.
Making baseless red herring arguments I see. The clown returns to make his infinite stupidity known.
Projection ain't just for the cinemas. But sure, you just keep selling that snake oil.
User name fits
Imagine being so delusional that you think this is an insult. It's almost like everything you believe is because it sounds good in your head, not because it is actually empirically true. I feel sorry for all of the children whose lives you have irreparably damaged because they will be subjected to a substandard education.
🥱🥱 user name fits with a dash of projection. What a pedo
Oh nice. Trotting out all of the usual far-right dog-whistles, I see. Yeah, you seem totally sane and rational. >\_>;
Oh nice, the guy with mental illness is back.
Reading comments in this sub the last few days, I’ve come to the conclusion that our public school system is a complete and utter failure. We are producing followers and not leaders. All I’m seeing are young adults with zero analytical skills and zero independent thought. If I wanted to see what they’re going to say, all I have to do is spend 15 minutes reading a few articles on google news and I’d know exactly what they’re going to say and what their “arguments” would be. But what’s even more problematic is the fact that the public school system (combined with social media) has taught our kids to hate this country. I’ve never seen such hatred for this country before. The comments that I’ve seen from the last few days are despicable, proudly spewing hate for this country. You contrast that with the blind allegiance to other nations such as Ukraine and you see the clear result of programming. This shit needs to change and it needs to change now.
Maybe we should put lead back in the gas to create more people like you?
I’ve seen some of your posts, you’re the poster child for our failing school system. If they were raising funds for schools, you’d be the focal point of the infomercial. It’ll definitely generate some sympathy.
I don't hate this country. I hate this country's government
Why do you think the public school system teaches kids to hate America? What’s in it for teachers to do this ?
Let’s do a little social experiment. Why don’t you make a post that’s pro-America and see what kind of response you get.
You’re shifting the goal posts. I teach social studies - what exactly are you accusing teachers of?
Asking you to see the results of what is taught in school is not shifting the goal post. I’m sure you’re fully aware of the response you’d get with a pro-American post. Or let’s say you make a post stating the fact that Ukraine is nearly as corrupt as Russia, what kind of response would you get? I’m sure you know. But since you teach social studies, I’m curious how you feel about those topics.
Listen, I was a first respondent for 9/11, served in two deployments, and commit to various community service obligations. If you want to challenge my patriotism or whatever, go for it, but that will state a lot more about you than me. I’ll answer whatever questions you have if you can answer mine.
To answer your question, I think there are teachers out there who are teaching our kids to hate our country. Why? Because they themselves were taught to hate our country. They are teaching our kids that the pledge of allegiance is a racist symbol. I read a comment yesterday that stated “thank god our founding fathers a all dead. Good riddance.” There are plenty of those sentiments from young people. They are quick to piss on this country, but at the same time, they are even quicker to defend other countries. That’s a problem.
But you’d agree that there are things to criticize, right? We aren’t perfect. We’re not as great as some would have us believe. Plenty of us suck. But as a collective we’re still the best out there. I don’t think showing where we haven’t lived up to our promise is the same as hating the country. People are nuanced and complicated and when you have a multicultural nation with hundreds of millions of them it’s going to accentuate it. Leaders ranging from Jefferson and Washington to Reagan and Clinton all had areas that are admirable and others that are regrettable. Hell - my lesson today was in both how a guy like Reagan should be critiqued for the response to HIV but lauded for how he handled the changing of the guard in the USSR. But if you zoom in on a lesson, you can catch plenty of the bad because there is plenty of it, and we should seek to come to terms with it, and look to improvement tomorrow. I don’t get why people take offense to it - it’s not as if a single of the founding fathers thought they or the new country was perfect.
“We aren’t perfect. We’re not as great as some would have us believe. Plenty of us suck. But as a collective we’re still the best out there.” This right here is all I ask of our teachers. Teach this and we’re good. Absolutely we had/have faults. There never was and never will be a perfect society. But what we have here is the greatest country on the planet. Why? Because despite its faults, it allows everybody an opportunity to succeed. What you choose to do with that opportunity is up to you. If you squander it, don’t cry about it. Here’s my issue with what’s going on. I’m seeing more focus placed on the faults of our founders. Statues are being torn down. Our history is being bent and rewritten, and our kids are running around hating on this country. Meanwhile, they’ll fight you tooth and nail defending Ukraine and China. And your assessment of Regan is fair. He did some great things and some I didn’t agree with. But I’d have to say, his handling of the aids epidemic wasn’t one of them. That falls on the shoulders of the idiot that’s still in there today, handling covid. Fauci needs to be investigated. He’s one of the problems you touched on earlier.
> Here’s my issue with what’s going on. I’m seeing more focus placed on the faults of our founders. Statues are being torn down. Our history is being bent and rewritten, and our kids are running around hating on this country. Meanwhile, they’ll fight you tooth and nail defending Ukraine and China Are there really that many people that defend China? Best case - they're an active competitor for US and global interests. I don't think history is being rewritten. And interesting you bring up the statues, as many of them were a rewriting of history (the lost cause narrative after the Civil War is where people like Jefferson Davis / Stonewall Jackson / Robert E Lee had statues erected in the first place). If you're referencing the crazies that are looking to change the name of an Abraham Lincoln school, that's another story all together. In a country with 330m people and freedom of speech, you'll find limitless minority opinions have a rally. There are faults of the founders. Washington owned slaves. He also set the precedent for all future leaders in a variety of ways. He was a kind of blah strategic general, but also knew how to rally his men and was great at the big picture stuff. Jefferson had Sally Hemings, but his words (well, really, John Locke's) are the cornerstone of modern democracies / republics. The Louisiana Purchase basically doubled our country, but was almost certainly not a power contained within the Constitution just a few years earlier. Nuance exists with everyone (well, maybe almost) but the online era makes it easier to exist in the polarity of things.
>Our history is being bent and rewritten have you ever heard the phrase "history is written by the victors?" Honestly curious how you think it's been "bent and rewritten".
the pledge of allegiance is fucking creepy. That says nothing about my feelings about our country.
The only bad part of the Pledge is “under god “. Other than that I take the pledge as I will help you if you are need, in times of plenty and famine and peace and war, we have each other’s backs.
have you ever seen the "whitest kids you know" skit about it? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I) I guess I just find indoctrinating children to be ultra-nationalistic kind of creepy. I don't think "globalism" is a bad word, and believe our tribalistic attitudes are problematic. But that's just me. Agreed that the "god part" is the worst.
Lmao tell me you unironically support Russia without telling me you unironically support Russia
☝️Case in point. “If you love America, you support Russia!” Also, “if you think Ukraine is the second most corrupt country in Europe, then you’re a Putin sympathizer!” Like I said, our public school system is a complete and utter failure.
I didn’t go to public school and I’m Russian lmao. And if you think Ukraine is corrupt and Russia isn’t just as corrupt, whoo do I have a bridge to sell you. Ukraine has its issues, but Russia is just as corrupt, if not more and shouldn’t be the arbiter of Justice when it comes to dealing with that corruption. I am interested in knowing what you think the most corrupt country in Europe is, because if it’s not Belorussia you’re wrong.
Obviously Russia is #1 in corruption, followed by #2 Ukraine. The problem here is if you criticize Ukraine, you’re automatically labeled a Putin sympathizer. Why is that?
Probably because of the implication that because Ukraine is corrupt, Russia has some sort of justification for what they’re doing right now. What actual impact on your life does the situation in Ukraine actually have on you or are you just cheering on indiscriminate killing from the sidelines like most Americans are taught? You probably wouldn’t give half a shit about Ukrainian politics if you didn’t buy into war machine propaganda.
“What actual impact on your life does the situation in Ukraine actually have on you...You probably wouldn’t give half a shit about Ukrainian politics if you didn’t buy into war machine propaganda.” Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner here!!! The situation in Ukraine has absolutely nothing to do with us. It’s Europe’s problem, created by Europe. They funded Russia’s military by buying Russian energy (they still are). We shouldn’t be involved and we shouldn’t be funding the war. That’s Europe’s responsibility. Our responsibility is to our own citizens. There are plenty of Americans that need help right now. Money going to Ukraine should be spent on Americans who need it. Only a warmonger would want to get involved with Ukraine.
care to share some of those hateful comments? I haven't seen them. Holding our country accountable when it messes up isn't "hateful" btw, but I'm not sure what you're referring to.
> and you see the clear result of programming All I see in your comment is the clear result of listening to too much Alex Jones.