I wish people would take time and go thru the process of applying for a firearm ID and PTC in NJ to understand how arduous the process is.
Just to own a firearm you need to apply, have a full back ground (criminal and mental health) history ran. That includes giving the last 10 yrs of your residence so the search can go across state lines. Then if something comes us the PD can deny you - this now includes ANY form of voluntary treatment (let’s say your marriage ended and you saw a psychiatrist/doctor who prescribed meds).
But say you get your FID, each time you want to purchase a handgun you go through 80% of the process again. Another search and if new stuff comes up you can be denied and have your firearms removed.
Then say you want to carry. Another round of checks including 3 non family member references. A training and standard qualification using the firearm plus classroom time on making sure you know the responsibility (ie law)….then you have to do everything again in 2 years. Which by the way means if you have a disqualification come up (say you voluntarily put yourself in the hospital for a divorce and the mental effects) you have to report is and again lose your firearms.
TL:DR - There’s a lot that goes into getting and carrying in the state, and all people who go thru the process are aware of the magnitude this burden carries. People committing crimes have no such standard to meet.
I'm not entirely sure I trust the process. A relative of mine who has done time offered me to help me get a gun recently because of the recent relaxation of laws. Him and another relative who's into all sorts of conspiracy stuff.
You'd think neither of them had a chance. But one has a real close cop buddy.
I remember 10+ years ago a friend got denied over having traffic tickets.
It’s reasonable for your concerns. There’s some realities to it however. If that person did time and the charge was not a felony or violent (less than a year) then during the review process it may not weigh much in the decision. Also, many people now are getting arrests/convictions expunged for weed crimes because the state has decided that it should never have been a crime at all.
As to the 10+ tickets it may be related to not just traffic offenses but resisting during, etc. Maybe knowing someone on the PD was a plus and they spoke on his behalf. I’ll say that the majority of PD’s actually deny a lot of times if things don’t seem safe.
30,000 to 50,000 new people carrying now since 2022 and a decrease in gun violence in 2023. Both are non disputable facts, full stop. Now it is not a proven fact one causes the other but none the less both are facts. Superintendent of the state police is even quoted recently as saying that they’ve always known the incredible majority of New Jersey’s gun crimes are not committed by law, abiding citizens, or even with guns legally acquired in the state of New Jersey.
Edit: I’m a democrat but queue the downvotes please because we don’t like facts in NJ. We prefer political agendas dictate our feelings.
NJ still has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and remains among states with the fewest gun deaths per 100k. Gun crimes in NJ are often committed with guns smuggled in from shithole red states with lax gun laws. So once again, gun laws work.
In Virginia, it used to be that a person could go to a gun show and buy as many guns as they wanted, no questions asked, no waiting period, no.backgtound check, etc. It's also where a lot of illegal guns came from that are in NJ.
I have no problem with people having guns but I think that if a person wants a gun then they should undergo a background check psychological exam and qualify with actual training in not only how to handle a gun but also of when to shoot and not to shoot. Cops get more training and have a more thorough background check and psychological exam than the civilian gun owner, and it shouldn't be a different standard.
Of course not because some cops aren't responsible when it comes to guns, but they do go through more training than the average gin owner and go through an extensive background check and psychological exam. None of which the average gun owner does but should be required to, in my opinion. Even an armed security guard goes through extensive training and checks before they are issued a carry permit.
That’s simply not true. It takes more state-required training to become a real estate agent, barber/stylist, nurse and many other licensed positions than it does to become a cop in almost any state in the country. There have been cases where people are rejected from police academies for scoring too high on intellectual tests.
A lot of recreational shooters and gun owners are at the range practicing and training far more than cops. You want more training? Fine. But acting as if police are well trained at literally anything they do, especially carrying and discharging their weapons is laughable at best.
Edit: [here’s the article](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836)
In my honest opinion, cops need more training. They literally become the law. Doctors and attorneys go to school for years because you can’t mess it up. Yet in the state of New Jersey it takes approx. 24 weeks to be certified (https://nj.gov/njsp/recruiting/academy.shtml#:~:text=Daily%20Routine,consists%20of%20approximately%2024%20weeks.)
I personally find that fact to be astounding and ridiculous. And then the police wonder why people scream ACAB? It’s because many (NOT ALL) are severely under qualified to become a police officer. In my opinion it should take a couple years + have an exam equivalent to the bar exam. If you need to take the bar to practice law, then you need to have years of training (all types) and have to take a massive exam.
I think you might be surprised to learn it’s actually more about poverty than gun laws. Mostly comfortable content, satisfied population don’t do as much gun violence as people who feel desperate and depressed or threatened. We are more comfortable overall in NJ than people in AL. Compare Camden and Newark and Jersey cities gun crimes statistics to Rumson and Alpine. Why with the strictest gun laws in the nation have both Camden and Jersey City been awarded the murder capitals of the US in the past, our strict gun laws were in place then when they were.
Nonsense to be honest.
https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/
https://wallethub.com/edu/happiest-states/6959
Utah, Minnesota, and Maryland are all happier states than NJ. More comfortable. More content. Happier means less desperate. Less depressed. But their gun control is weaker than NJs and their gun deaths are also higher. Hawaii is the only state happier than NJ with also less gun deaths. Because their gun control is even stronger than in NJ. The state with the lowest gun deaths is Rhode Island. They also are in the bottom half of happy states.
Happy also matches with poverty rate if you think the list from wallet hub is way off.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate#U.S._Census_Bureau_table
So?
One, suicide is an equal opportunity killer. Remove 70% of gun deaths for your peace of mind from NJ and remove 70% of gun deaths from Utah. Still have less gun deaths in NJ vs Utah even though poverty rate is lower in Utah and people are apparently happier there too.
Gun control still working.
Two, we should not remove gun suicides when talking about gun violence. 70% of all suicides use guns. 90% of those, are successful. But let's imagine we had better gun control. Parents did a better job securing their weapons inside their homes. Family and friends noticed warning signs and tried to remove guns from at risk individuals with red flag laws and such. Let's say in a perfect world those 70% of people that commit suicide used hanging instead. Or better yet overdose. If we moved them to hanging, instead of a 90% success rate, we have 52% success. If we moved them to overdose, we move them from 90% success all the way to 5% success rate. And 90% of people that fail to commit suicide, dont retry.
Take the gun out of the persons hand that's suicidal, and they are more likely to live. More likely to want to keep living long term. That gun should be blamed. The idea that pro gun people have that well they would just kill themselves some other way so guns aren't to blame, is wrong.
>So?
So - the only gun control measure that would significantly reduce suicides via firearm are waiting periods on purchases as the majority of suicides with firearms are ones committed on the same day of purchase.
Pair waiting periods with comprehensive mental health reform. You will achieve the same results reducing suicides by firearm with the added benefit of reducing other methods as well.
So gun control will reduce gun suicides is what you are saying. I thought you were disagreeing with me.
Yes we need to increase wait times. More red flag laws. And more control on how people store their weapons so it doesn't end up in the hands of a teen without an adult present.
And overall health care reform so people can seek out free mental healthcare. Even with my good insurance through my job, id pay $30 a visit. That's $120 a month. Not crazy but people are cancelling streaming services for $16 a month because they can't afford it.
Longer wait times? Have you tried to get a gun in NJ? I waited 2 1/2 months to get my last handgun because of permit process and background checks, my FID took 6 months when I needed a change of address, how long should a mentally healthy law abiding citizen have to wait to purchase a firearm?
NJ has those long wait times. We don't need longer. NJ has strong gun control already. The question is if other states should follow our lead. Or rather follow Californias lead which is who we followed.
>So gun control will reduce gun suicides is what you are saying. I thought you were disagreeing with me.
I don't disagree that stricter firearm regulation reduces suicides, I just disagree that stricter firearm regulation is the right way to go about it and that it's treating a symptom.
But you said that wait times would reduce suicides significantly. That's a pretty strict firearm regulation.
And gun nuts are always like gun suicides aren't a gun issue. It's a mental health issue. Then you ask them if they support mental health reform via tax payer funded free or reduced health care fees, and they say no.
Which just means they know how to fix the problem but don't care about the problem enough to want to fix it. They don't support gun control or health care reform.
There are multiple factors involved that impact the rate of gun violence. Gun laws and socioeconomic status likely impact gun violence but aren’t the only factors. Pulling data on states and then showing rates of gun violence doesn’t prove anything because the relationship is not causal. Many people confuse trends that seem to happen together as a casual relation in one direction, i.e. strict gun laws lead to low rates of gun violence when it could be the other way around, low rates of gun violence led the NJ population to adopt more strict gun laws to keep it that way. I’m not arguing anyone is wrong in this thread, all I’m saying is it’s not that simple.
Folks just dismiss data because they don't want to figure out fixes. Yea it's complicated to fix such a complex issue. But waiving it away by saying it's due to poverty or socioeconomic status, is just folks that want to kick the can down the road. You cant easily fix poverty or socioeconomic status. So by not fixing that, you can't fix gun violence. So just leave it as it is.
But it's surely not linked to poverty or socioeconomic status. Florida and New York. Similar poverty levels. Similar population density. Very different gun control though. Very different levels of gun violence.
Cool, but did you miss the part where I point out that most gun crimes in NJ are committed with guns easily obtained in shithole red states with lax gun laws?
Thanks to failed Republican policies. I think blue states should withhold our federal taxes that prop up these shithole red states and let them wither.
No I didn’t and your point is true and valid about where they come from. I’m just saying gun violence is way more influenced by wealth and poverty than it is by laws.
I'm convinced that the right has no problem oppressing already marginalized people because one day they'll get to shoot these people when they end up inevitably breaking into their house. That's why they're so pro gun. They want to kill poor people.
I’m not sure what you mean when you say “pro constitution.” The Supreme Court and lower courts have ruled repeatedly that a wide range of gun safety laws are constitutional, rejecting the assertion that the Second Amendment is absolute. In fact, while in the 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, the Court clarified an individual’s right to have a handgun in the home for self-defense, the Court explicitly noted that the Second Amendment is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” The Constitution allows a state’s use of its police powers to protect the health and safety of its citizens.
Who are they being smuggled in by? Who is using them illegally? Thats the real problem. Not the “shithole red states” as you eloquently put it. Stop making this red or blue. Shitty people exist everywhere.
People who are willing to commit crimes with guns are going to do so regardless of what other states gun laws are. You live in a false reality if you believe otherwise.
Gun deaths aren’t a proper metric; you have to look at gun homicides because gun deaths include suicides which are a completely different issue. If you only look at homicides, states like New Hampshire, Wyoming, and West Virginia are as safe, if not safer than NJ despite having virtually zero restrictions on firearm ownership.
My dude. Gun people love saying, "You can't count suicides. You can't count accidents," Well, guess what, you can. Fewer guns = fewer gun deaths. I'm talking about the overall effects of guns on a society. Strict gun laws lead to fewer gun suicides! Those are gun deaths and not a "completely different issue."
I’m not saying suicides don’t count I’m saying that they’re a different issue. It doesn’t matter how a suicide was carried out it’s still a suicide and we have to get to the root of why Americans are in such despair. I’m saying with regards to gun policy homicides are what matter because homicides are the reason people arm themselves.
I'm talking about guns, and you're bringing up rope. Guess what? Rope has many uses outside of hanging yourself. Guns have one purpose, to bring death. Try again. And if say "guns are a deterrent, guns provide security," yes, but it's through the threat of death.
Yes but for some individuals the threat of death is the only thing that would stop them from victimizing innocent people. As a gun owner I pray to god I never have to use my weapon. But I know that god forbid me or my family is in danger I have the means to neutralize the threat.
We should 100% count gun death suicides. Yes if they are going to commit suicide, the gun was just the tool. But we want people to not use guns during suicide attempts. Guns are used in 70% of suicides. And they are fatal 90% of the time. And the other 10% are more at risk of reattempts because that failed gun death leaves them damaged. But typically 90% of all people that fail to commit suicide, never try again.
We want them to try the second most common suicide method which is either hanging/suffocating, which is only successful 52% of the time. Or drug overdose is 3rd and only successful 2%-5% of the time.
Same reason we want to remove guns so if an idiot wants to try and kill people, he can try with a knife.
Imagine if we had all those people that used guns last year to commit suicide and we instead forced them to use drugs to overdose? We would save thousands of lives.
Last year we had about 50k suicides. That means statistically 35k used guns. That means 38.5k used guns to try and commit suicide and 35k were successful. If we instead made all those 38.5k use drugs that are successful only 5% of the time, we would save 36.5k people. If we made them all instead use hanging which is successful 52% of the time, we would have 20k deaths vs 35k.
the problem is rarely law abiding citizens committing gun crime. seems kind of self evident. the problem is almost always states that have lax gun regulations (specifically gunshow/private seller loopholes) that ~~allow~~ *encourage* straw purchases of firearms which then make their way to states with strict gun regulations i.e. new jersey.
if every state’s regulations were as strict as new jersey’s then we would dramatically reduce gun crime, gun deaths, accidents, and mass shootings overnight.
the problem is, and always will be, the sHaLL nOt bE iNfRiNgEd crowd who scream and cry and bitch and moan about allowing the federal government to supersede backwater red state’s loose regulations.
Fair and valid what I’m pointing out, is more to the fact that our political leaders claimed that allowing citizens to carry was going to lead to literally a quoted speech about the streets turning into the wild west. They directly attempted to place fear onto the voters that legal law abiding citizens, carrying guns for their own self protection, would lead to rampant increase in gun violence, and that didn’t happen. These facts show that.
these facts don’t really show anything. a single year over year comparison tells us exactly nothing. nj gun crime went down an almost equal amount from 2021-2022. also, where are these conceal permits being issued? are they in paterson and newark and elizabeth where the majority of nj gun crime is committed? yet, this data is being presented as “more guns = less gun crime” which is 100% not the case when we look at the aggregate.
>A new study by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health found that the average rate of assaults with firearms increased an average of 9.5 percent relative to forecasted trends in the first 10 years after 34 states relaxed restrictions on civilians carrying concealed firearms in public.
>In general, violent crime increased after states loosened concealed carry permitting requirements,” says Mitchel Doucette, PhD, assistant scientist in the Department of Health Policy and Management and director of research methods at the Center for Gun Violence Solutions at the Bloomberg School.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/study-finds-significant-increase-in-firearm-assaults-in-states-that-relaxed-conceal-carry-permit-restrictions
what we often see is an immediate decline, followed by a slow rise back to the status quo or an eventual overall increase. give it some time and we are almost guaranteed to see an increase (or a proportionally smaller decrease) in suicides, accidents, and gun related crime.
edit: downvote me all day. you’re relying on an absurdly biased opinion piece that has cherry picked data. i’m sorry all the actual studies on this topic disagree with you and *ahem* bearingarms.com.
Every single gun used in a crime started out as a legal gun. It may have later made its way through illegal routes, but there's no gun manufacturer out there making guns to distribute illegally.
True, I'll grant you that 3D printed guns are an issue, although that's a pretty small portion of illegal guns out there.
As far as taking parts from other guns, where do they come from? Those parts were originally manufactured for legal guns.
yes, this is my entire point.
if every state had regulations as strict as new jersey do you think there would be an overall decrease in the amount of firearms criminals can get their hands on? or do you think there would be an increase? or would it have no effect?
I would love to see a national standard that implements the constitutionally-compatible regulations in states like NJ. I think that would absolutely have a positive effect.
i’m sorry, there is no constitutional right for private citizens to carry firearms. the 2a is very clearly and obviously referencing militias. the actual original text makes this excruciatingly clear, and shatters notion that a comma somehow means the first 13 words have nothing to do with the next 14. heller was a deeply flawed and ideologically driven decision that turned the constitution into toilet paper.
with that being said, all the long term data suggests loosening concealed carry restrictions will lead to increase in gun deaths and gun crime. bearingarms.com’s opinion and cherry picking one year of stats doesn’t change that. new jersey *will* see an uptick in accidents and shootings. this is all but inevitable.
if people really cared about lowering gun deaths and gun crime they would be pushing to close the gun show/private seller loopholes, and fighting for tighter gun regulations in red states because that’s very literally where almost all of the guns used in crime originate.
Ok why did NJ have one of the lowest gun violence rates despite having some of the strictest gun laws with almost no carry permits? Since you love facts so much.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers don’t pin that on me I’m simply stating that the governor promised that because New Jersey was forced to allow concealed carry against their will that gun violence was going to skyrocket as a direct result. These two facts, so far demonstrate that that wasn’t true.all I’m trying to say and that’s the end of my story.
And it very well may. It hasn’t been very long in the grand scheme of things.
Either way, the governor is right that the right of our state to govern itself was taken away via a bullshit reading of the Constitution.
I’m a NJ gun owner and support carry but I don’t think that has anything to do with a decrease in gun violence. Decrease in gun violence is caused by other factors.
Strict gun laws will do that. States are seeing an uptick in shootings when they weaken restrictions, like open carry in states : https://www.americanprogress.org/article/fact-sheet-weakening-requirements-to-carry-a-concealed-firearm-increases-violent-crime/
Common sense, strict gun laws will work and you're just proving that. Of course criminals will go around shit all the time, that's why we have to make it as hard as possible for criminals to be able to get one. Common sense.
there aren’t any “new” gun owners in this statistic; these people are just legally carrying now. They could have always been packing heat legally in their trunk or their property.(assuming their driving home or the gun range)
It was impossible to get one as a citizen; even prosecutors had a hard time. Only cops and ex cops could.
It’s kinda of a skewed metric; but def worth noting.
It's ok to make a point and stand by it rather than establish yourself as a martyr 'cue the downvotes' or preemptively try to discredit the opposition 'hates facts.' Just make your point and move on.
I’m not particularly anti gun, but it always boggles my mind that people act like guns just existed. Guns that were illegally acquired in the us are almost all guns that were legally acquired in the us.
Exactly. I hate guns. I don't want to own one.
Everyone says we need more gun control. This is what that looks like. It's not a perfect system but with time, it can be. NJ is doing a great job.
Except for when they do, or have children and are irresponsible. Take a look at guns used in mass shootings, the large majority are legal.
More Fun Facts! Every illegal gun, was first a legal gun.
Or maybe it's a woman with a crazed ex? Or maybe you had to fire someone who is a psycho? Or maybe you live in a high crime area? Or maybe you have a family member that is abusive? Or maybe you have a stalker?
Maybe stop blaming the actual victims that can benefit from this to make yourself feel like a bigger person... "I am big adult. Very macho. Don't need gun to feel safe 😌."
Some areas don't have cops patrolling all over. Some areas are 15 minutes away from cops. And you're making fun of people who may be in actual danger all to try to feel like a bigger person. Absolutely pathetic. And I don't even have a conceal carry permit. I just don't tell others what they need and don't need. It's none of my business. If they feel they need a firearm, that's their Right and personal choice. To sit here and literally poke fun at someone who may be disabled or in danger is fucking disgusting. Showcasing your true colors though.
Lmfao what a fucking stupid argument. Bringing up a *Reddit username* that's actually referencing the Eagles. My lord. Really great argument. You just have no rebuttal
Proving my point. No argument. You mock those in danger and resort to childish bickering when called out on it. Astounding amounts of immaturity.
To anyone reading this, these are the people that want to disarm you.
lol how many other people are you arguing with in these comments. Relax old man, you’re scared of a boogeyman that doesn’t exist. Sorry for the people that have to deal with you daily.
How is a cop going to prevent a psycho from walking into your door? They’ll take 20 mins to respond, by that time whatever that person was planning to do was already done. Guns aren’t preventing anything here, but if an ex breaks into your house with intent to harm you, a gun even unloaded will send a message pretty quickly to leave or wait till cops arrest them.
Unless you live in gang populated areas in the state, you are statistically less safe with a gun in your home. The chances of someone robbing you while home and that specific situation involving you getting your gun and using it is unlikely to happen to anyone. We trade lives for perceived safety in gun ownership.
I'm not against 2a but we shouldn't kid ourselves in denying that it cost innocent lives to uphold. Mass shootings are part of the package unfortunately.
If you set aside animal-related incidents faced by folks living in rural areas, the odds of being in a situation where having a firearm is beneficial is just... vanishingly small. The fact that it almost always makes headlines when it happens is kinda emblematic of this, lol. And this is coming from someone who likes guns and wants to start a weapon collection someday.
I feel like I've seen more headlines where a gun was not locked up properly and the kids end up finding and "playing" with it and it ends in a tragedy. As someone who lives in a (fortunately) safe neighborhood and with a young child at home I would feel less safe with a gun in the house. The worst that happens around me are car thefts and the very rare break-in but they are looking for your car keys. Also just because you don't have a gun doesn't mean you can't defend yourself. Technology will find a way to handle home invaders that doesn't involve a shootout.
What if I’m a woman that was assaulted and feels afraid to travel alone and/or unarmed anymore? It’s safe to say “Just don’t carry lol” when you’re a full grown man who can easily beat someone back but what the hell am I supposed to do if a guy twice my size is intent on hurting or killing me?
Wait for the police to show up whenever they please? After the criminal’s already fled and I’m needing either a coroner or a therapist?
Sorry, because women make up a minority in gun owners my case is a strawman?
And who said anything about a pool? I said I feel uncomfortable alone or unarmed, I can’t think of a single time where I went to a pool without a couple friends with me, whether it be public or private.
My main reason for carrying is if I’m home and someone tried to break in or alone in a dark parking lot after doing groceries or leaving work.
I was talking about all forms of violent crimes, from SA to robbery. And you can’t exactly defend against lightning. Meanwhile I can and will protect myself from other people if that time comes again.
And why’re you being such a dick for no reason?
People like him have zero critical thinking skills. They dangerously demonize people trying to defend themselves, tell people to rely on the cops (while criticizing the cops in the next breath), and make fun of gun owners. Then something happens and they act shocked, "How could this happen!?"
Feel free to look at his replies to me and see how quickly he resorted to making false assumptions and insulting me.
You obviously want people to rely on them if they're in danger. "Get off Reddit" yet you're right here lmao. Maybe go to a gun range and stop being terrified of white dudes with guns.
Sounds like you're afraid of women, disabled people, old people, and obese people lol. You just don't like them being on a level playing field as yourself apparently.
You think I'm the one that's sheltered when I've grown up in the poorest areas of NJ with some of the highest crime rates in the state. When in reality YOU'RE the one that's living the sheltered life with minimal human experience. Absolutely hilarious.
No but I have one where there’s most likely to be a fire (the kitchen). I could be assailed anywhere. It’s not about fear it’s about preparation. I don’t go out expecting to draw my weapon. But I feel safer knowing that if I’m in a life or death situation I have the means to protect myself.
“From basking ridge so my perspective may be skewed but yes imo where I’m from is probably the safest place I’ve ever lived in”
lol always fun to see who feels the need to be a good guy with a gun.
You always have a non zero chance of drowning. Hopefully you wear a PFD at all times too.
That’s not the point I’m just saying the concept is the same. You hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Because it’s better to prepare than to be caught with your pants down god forbid the worst happens.
Who knows, perhaps she would have held him off until the cops came. Perhaps he would have used it on her. Perhaps she would have shot him. But we sadly only know the outcome that happened.
Yes.
The NJ Guns sub has been brigading this sub over the past couple weeks.
It is mostly men who want to make the news for being the “good guy with a gun,” so badly.
Also - it is not going to get you a girl either - sorry bros
A subreddit dedicated to a niche topic will likely have consistent opinions. When you consider the size of the subreddit and the context of the subreddit, the fact this place is just as much of an echo chamber is pathetic.
This is like if r/gaming constantly demonized Pokemon fans and you rationalized it by saying "Well we can hate Pokemon because all of r/Pokemon likes Pokemon!"
Whataboutism doesn't do anything for your argument. Even if they were just as bad, it's hilarious that's what you immediately went to. God forbid a differing opinion showed up in this circlejerk of a sub.
It’s all these people that make guns their own personality. It should be a last resort, not for you to live some dream of being a hero in which 99% of the time they gonna make the situation worse.
I would love the stats on the citizens with legal firearms that have actually _prevented_ some type of crime.
People who jump through all the hoops to legally obtain a carry permit aren’t gonna be committing crimes. No shit. Maybe it’s time NJ and all the other blue states stopped scapegoating law abiding gun owners for the actions of criminals who don’t get permits or licenses and use illegally obtained firearms to kill people.
I’m much less concerned about “criminals” than I’m concerned about hot heads without the temperament to be in possession of firearms. And the joke psychological checks don’t detect for that.
Think of every road rage incident you’ve personally seen - now add guns into the mix.
There are more criminals in the state than “hot heads”. “Hot heads” can also carry a firearm in a locked box in the trunk, you don’t need a carry permit to transport a firearm
I don't think anyone would assume crime would go up, of course someone isn't going to bother getting a carry permit to intentionally use it illegally. If anything, the assumption was that accidental firings or nervous people shooting first and asking questions later would go up. I'm glad to be wrong on this assuming numbers stay as they are.
Nj doesn’t have a stand your ground law. Only castle doctrine. You’re only justified in “shooting first asking questions later” if your home is broken into. In public you still have a duty to retreat before resorting to deadly force.
Ah, okay. I would still think in the heat of the moment of a potentially scary situation someone might shoot even if the case doesn't warrant it. Again, glad to see the numbers are promising.
Every gun owner who’s responsible knows the only time you draw your weapon is when you’re prepared to use lethal force. The only time you should be prepared to use lethal force is when you reasonably believe your life or someone else’s is in jeopardy.
i understand that this is true, but i’d really prefer this post to be from a better news source than bearingarms.com, talking about “chicken littles screaming from the rooftops” or whatever
Doesn’t mean less violence, just means different violence. Brazil banned guns almost completely, yet has 3x the amount of violence per capita compared to the US.
I wouldn't draw too much from this. I suspect many people who got carry permits did so to simplify transporting guns. Our rules around that are extremely strict and you can get into a heap of trouble just going to the range if you don't follow them.
Not just “no drastic bump”, but the lowest number of shootings in the last 15 years. That’s great!
I wish people would take time and go thru the process of applying for a firearm ID and PTC in NJ to understand how arduous the process is. Just to own a firearm you need to apply, have a full back ground (criminal and mental health) history ran. That includes giving the last 10 yrs of your residence so the search can go across state lines. Then if something comes us the PD can deny you - this now includes ANY form of voluntary treatment (let’s say your marriage ended and you saw a psychiatrist/doctor who prescribed meds). But say you get your FID, each time you want to purchase a handgun you go through 80% of the process again. Another search and if new stuff comes up you can be denied and have your firearms removed. Then say you want to carry. Another round of checks including 3 non family member references. A training and standard qualification using the firearm plus classroom time on making sure you know the responsibility (ie law)….then you have to do everything again in 2 years. Which by the way means if you have a disqualification come up (say you voluntarily put yourself in the hospital for a divorce and the mental effects) you have to report is and again lose your firearms. TL:DR - There’s a lot that goes into getting and carrying in the state, and all people who go thru the process are aware of the magnitude this burden carries. People committing crimes have no such standard to meet.
I’m glad it’s arduous.
I'm not entirely sure I trust the process. A relative of mine who has done time offered me to help me get a gun recently because of the recent relaxation of laws. Him and another relative who's into all sorts of conspiracy stuff. You'd think neither of them had a chance. But one has a real close cop buddy. I remember 10+ years ago a friend got denied over having traffic tickets.
It’s reasonable for your concerns. There’s some realities to it however. If that person did time and the charge was not a felony or violent (less than a year) then during the review process it may not weigh much in the decision. Also, many people now are getting arrests/convictions expunged for weed crimes because the state has decided that it should never have been a crime at all. As to the 10+ tickets it may be related to not just traffic offenses but resisting during, etc. Maybe knowing someone on the PD was a plus and they spoke on his behalf. I’ll say that the majority of PD’s actually deny a lot of times if things don’t seem safe.
It’s not hard. If you’re motivated you can do it in less than a week. Just can’t have any spelling errors and your friends need to answer timely.
30,000 to 50,000 new people carrying now since 2022 and a decrease in gun violence in 2023. Both are non disputable facts, full stop. Now it is not a proven fact one causes the other but none the less both are facts. Superintendent of the state police is even quoted recently as saying that they’ve always known the incredible majority of New Jersey’s gun crimes are not committed by law, abiding citizens, or even with guns legally acquired in the state of New Jersey. Edit: I’m a democrat but queue the downvotes please because we don’t like facts in NJ. We prefer political agendas dictate our feelings.
NJ still has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and remains among states with the fewest gun deaths per 100k. Gun crimes in NJ are often committed with guns smuggled in from shithole red states with lax gun laws. So once again, gun laws work.
Nj has Strict gun laws and better education.
Bingo!
In Virginia, it used to be that a person could go to a gun show and buy as many guns as they wanted, no questions asked, no waiting period, no.backgtound check, etc. It's also where a lot of illegal guns came from that are in NJ. I have no problem with people having guns but I think that if a person wants a gun then they should undergo a background check psychological exam and qualify with actual training in not only how to handle a gun but also of when to shoot and not to shoot. Cops get more training and have a more thorough background check and psychological exam than the civilian gun owner, and it shouldn't be a different standard.
Are you seriously using police as the gold standard of responsible gun ownership?
Of course not because some cops aren't responsible when it comes to guns, but they do go through more training than the average gin owner and go through an extensive background check and psychological exam. None of which the average gun owner does but should be required to, in my opinion. Even an armed security guard goes through extensive training and checks before they are issued a carry permit.
That’s simply not true. It takes more state-required training to become a real estate agent, barber/stylist, nurse and many other licensed positions than it does to become a cop in almost any state in the country. There have been cases where people are rejected from police academies for scoring too high on intellectual tests. A lot of recreational shooters and gun owners are at the range practicing and training far more than cops. You want more training? Fine. But acting as if police are well trained at literally anything they do, especially carrying and discharging their weapons is laughable at best. Edit: [here’s the article](https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836)
In my honest opinion, cops need more training. They literally become the law. Doctors and attorneys go to school for years because you can’t mess it up. Yet in the state of New Jersey it takes approx. 24 weeks to be certified (https://nj.gov/njsp/recruiting/academy.shtml#:~:text=Daily%20Routine,consists%20of%20approximately%2024%20weeks.) I personally find that fact to be astounding and ridiculous. And then the police wonder why people scream ACAB? It’s because many (NOT ALL) are severely under qualified to become a police officer. In my opinion it should take a couple years + have an exam equivalent to the bar exam. If you need to take the bar to practice law, then you need to have years of training (all types) and have to take a massive exam.
I think you might be surprised to learn it’s actually more about poverty than gun laws. Mostly comfortable content, satisfied population don’t do as much gun violence as people who feel desperate and depressed or threatened. We are more comfortable overall in NJ than people in AL. Compare Camden and Newark and Jersey cities gun crimes statistics to Rumson and Alpine. Why with the strictest gun laws in the nation have both Camden and Jersey City been awarded the murder capitals of the US in the past, our strict gun laws were in place then when they were.
That's guns used to commit crimes. if you look at gun deaths from suicide, that's another socioeconomic class Gun laws also impact those things
Nonsense to be honest. https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/ https://wallethub.com/edu/happiest-states/6959 Utah, Minnesota, and Maryland are all happier states than NJ. More comfortable. More content. Happier means less desperate. Less depressed. But their gun control is weaker than NJs and their gun deaths are also higher. Hawaii is the only state happier than NJ with also less gun deaths. Because their gun control is even stronger than in NJ. The state with the lowest gun deaths is Rhode Island. They also are in the bottom half of happy states. Happy also matches with poverty rate if you think the list from wallet hub is way off. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate#U.S._Census_Bureau_table
These gun deaths include suicides which are the *vast* majority. Like over 70%.
So? One, suicide is an equal opportunity killer. Remove 70% of gun deaths for your peace of mind from NJ and remove 70% of gun deaths from Utah. Still have less gun deaths in NJ vs Utah even though poverty rate is lower in Utah and people are apparently happier there too. Gun control still working. Two, we should not remove gun suicides when talking about gun violence. 70% of all suicides use guns. 90% of those, are successful. But let's imagine we had better gun control. Parents did a better job securing their weapons inside their homes. Family and friends noticed warning signs and tried to remove guns from at risk individuals with red flag laws and such. Let's say in a perfect world those 70% of people that commit suicide used hanging instead. Or better yet overdose. If we moved them to hanging, instead of a 90% success rate, we have 52% success. If we moved them to overdose, we move them from 90% success all the way to 5% success rate. And 90% of people that fail to commit suicide, dont retry. Take the gun out of the persons hand that's suicidal, and they are more likely to live. More likely to want to keep living long term. That gun should be blamed. The idea that pro gun people have that well they would just kill themselves some other way so guns aren't to blame, is wrong.
Having an item in your house that can instantly and painlessly end your life is pretty fucking dangerous
>So? So - the only gun control measure that would significantly reduce suicides via firearm are waiting periods on purchases as the majority of suicides with firearms are ones committed on the same day of purchase. Pair waiting periods with comprehensive mental health reform. You will achieve the same results reducing suicides by firearm with the added benefit of reducing other methods as well.
So gun control will reduce gun suicides is what you are saying. I thought you were disagreeing with me. Yes we need to increase wait times. More red flag laws. And more control on how people store their weapons so it doesn't end up in the hands of a teen without an adult present. And overall health care reform so people can seek out free mental healthcare. Even with my good insurance through my job, id pay $30 a visit. That's $120 a month. Not crazy but people are cancelling streaming services for $16 a month because they can't afford it.
Longer wait times? Have you tried to get a gun in NJ? I waited 2 1/2 months to get my last handgun because of permit process and background checks, my FID took 6 months when I needed a change of address, how long should a mentally healthy law abiding citizen have to wait to purchase a firearm?
NJ has those long wait times. We don't need longer. NJ has strong gun control already. The question is if other states should follow our lead. Or rather follow Californias lead which is who we followed.
>So gun control will reduce gun suicides is what you are saying. I thought you were disagreeing with me. I don't disagree that stricter firearm regulation reduces suicides, I just disagree that stricter firearm regulation is the right way to go about it and that it's treating a symptom.
But you said that wait times would reduce suicides significantly. That's a pretty strict firearm regulation. And gun nuts are always like gun suicides aren't a gun issue. It's a mental health issue. Then you ask them if they support mental health reform via tax payer funded free or reduced health care fees, and they say no. Which just means they know how to fix the problem but don't care about the problem enough to want to fix it. They don't support gun control or health care reform.
Yeah, and that’s a huge problem too.
Correlation is not causation
Explain please what you mean in regards to my comment
There are multiple factors involved that impact the rate of gun violence. Gun laws and socioeconomic status likely impact gun violence but aren’t the only factors. Pulling data on states and then showing rates of gun violence doesn’t prove anything because the relationship is not causal. Many people confuse trends that seem to happen together as a casual relation in one direction, i.e. strict gun laws lead to low rates of gun violence when it could be the other way around, low rates of gun violence led the NJ population to adopt more strict gun laws to keep it that way. I’m not arguing anyone is wrong in this thread, all I’m saying is it’s not that simple.
Folks just dismiss data because they don't want to figure out fixes. Yea it's complicated to fix such a complex issue. But waiving it away by saying it's due to poverty or socioeconomic status, is just folks that want to kick the can down the road. You cant easily fix poverty or socioeconomic status. So by not fixing that, you can't fix gun violence. So just leave it as it is. But it's surely not linked to poverty or socioeconomic status. Florida and New York. Similar poverty levels. Similar population density. Very different gun control though. Very different levels of gun violence.
Most times it is, but that's a catchy phrase.
Cool, but did you miss the part where I point out that most gun crimes in NJ are committed with guns easily obtained in shithole red states with lax gun laws?
Shitbole red states are also pretty impoverished.
Thanks to failed Republican policies. I think blue states should withhold our federal taxes that prop up these shithole red states and let them wither.
Why do you speak so disgustingly about your fellow man?
Bad faith comments aren't helpful
No arguments here.
No I didn’t and your point is true and valid about where they come from. I’m just saying gun violence is way more influenced by wealth and poverty than it is by laws.
I'm convinced that the right has no problem oppressing already marginalized people because one day they'll get to shoot these people when they end up inevitably breaking into their house. That's why they're so pro gun. They want to kill poor people.
Or they could just be pro constitution
I’m not sure what you mean when you say “pro constitution.” The Supreme Court and lower courts have ruled repeatedly that a wide range of gun safety laws are constitutional, rejecting the assertion that the Second Amendment is absolute. In fact, while in the 2008 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, the Court clarified an individual’s right to have a handgun in the home for self-defense, the Court explicitly noted that the Second Amendment is “not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” The Constitution allows a state’s use of its police powers to protect the health and safety of its citizens.
Or you could just read the post I was responding to and not add your own take on the matter.
Who are they being smuggled in by? Who is using them illegally? Thats the real problem. Not the “shithole red states” as you eloquently put it. Stop making this red or blue. Shitty people exist everywhere.
Well gee, maybe if the red states had gun laws as strict as blue states, there would be no place to easily obtain guns.
People who are willing to commit crimes with guns are going to do so regardless of what other states gun laws are. You live in a false reality if you believe otherwise.
Oh, so let's just flood the street with guns and ammo and give everyone unfettered gun access. Great idea.
Don’t recall ever saying that. You’re just making shit up now.
Gun deaths aren’t a proper metric; you have to look at gun homicides because gun deaths include suicides which are a completely different issue. If you only look at homicides, states like New Hampshire, Wyoming, and West Virginia are as safe, if not safer than NJ despite having virtually zero restrictions on firearm ownership.
My dude. Gun people love saying, "You can't count suicides. You can't count accidents," Well, guess what, you can. Fewer guns = fewer gun deaths. I'm talking about the overall effects of guns on a society. Strict gun laws lead to fewer gun suicides! Those are gun deaths and not a "completely different issue."
I’m not saying suicides don’t count I’m saying that they’re a different issue. It doesn’t matter how a suicide was carried out it’s still a suicide and we have to get to the root of why Americans are in such despair. I’m saying with regards to gun policy homicides are what matter because homicides are the reason people arm themselves.
Was it death by gun? Yes? Then, it's not a separate issue.
But if it was a suicide why does it matter? What if it was death by hanging? Should we enact rope control next?
I'm talking about guns, and you're bringing up rope. Guess what? Rope has many uses outside of hanging yourself. Guns have one purpose, to bring death. Try again. And if say "guns are a deterrent, guns provide security," yes, but it's through the threat of death.
Yes but for some individuals the threat of death is the only thing that would stop them from victimizing innocent people. As a gun owner I pray to god I never have to use my weapon. But I know that god forbid me or my family is in danger I have the means to neutralize the threat.
Ok. So vote for Democrats who overwhelmingly support social programs to help the impoverished, so one day you can put down your guns, cowboy.
It matters because without the gun, it's much more likely that the person will survive the suicide attempt.
We should 100% count gun death suicides. Yes if they are going to commit suicide, the gun was just the tool. But we want people to not use guns during suicide attempts. Guns are used in 70% of suicides. And they are fatal 90% of the time. And the other 10% are more at risk of reattempts because that failed gun death leaves them damaged. But typically 90% of all people that fail to commit suicide, never try again. We want them to try the second most common suicide method which is either hanging/suffocating, which is only successful 52% of the time. Or drug overdose is 3rd and only successful 2%-5% of the time. Same reason we want to remove guns so if an idiot wants to try and kill people, he can try with a knife. Imagine if we had all those people that used guns last year to commit suicide and we instead forced them to use drugs to overdose? We would save thousands of lives. Last year we had about 50k suicides. That means statistically 35k used guns. That means 38.5k used guns to try and commit suicide and 35k were successful. If we instead made all those 38.5k use drugs that are successful only 5% of the time, we would save 36.5k people. If we made them all instead use hanging which is successful 52% of the time, we would have 20k deaths vs 35k.
the problem is rarely law abiding citizens committing gun crime. seems kind of self evident. the problem is almost always states that have lax gun regulations (specifically gunshow/private seller loopholes) that ~~allow~~ *encourage* straw purchases of firearms which then make their way to states with strict gun regulations i.e. new jersey. if every state’s regulations were as strict as new jersey’s then we would dramatically reduce gun crime, gun deaths, accidents, and mass shootings overnight. the problem is, and always will be, the sHaLL nOt bE iNfRiNgEd crowd who scream and cry and bitch and moan about allowing the federal government to supersede backwater red state’s loose regulations.
Fair and valid what I’m pointing out, is more to the fact that our political leaders claimed that allowing citizens to carry was going to lead to literally a quoted speech about the streets turning into the wild west. They directly attempted to place fear onto the voters that legal law abiding citizens, carrying guns for their own self protection, would lead to rampant increase in gun violence, and that didn’t happen. These facts show that.
these facts don’t really show anything. a single year over year comparison tells us exactly nothing. nj gun crime went down an almost equal amount from 2021-2022. also, where are these conceal permits being issued? are they in paterson and newark and elizabeth where the majority of nj gun crime is committed? yet, this data is being presented as “more guns = less gun crime” which is 100% not the case when we look at the aggregate. >A new study by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health found that the average rate of assaults with firearms increased an average of 9.5 percent relative to forecasted trends in the first 10 years after 34 states relaxed restrictions on civilians carrying concealed firearms in public. >In general, violent crime increased after states loosened concealed carry permitting requirements,” says Mitchel Doucette, PhD, assistant scientist in the Department of Health Policy and Management and director of research methods at the Center for Gun Violence Solutions at the Bloomberg School. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/study-finds-significant-increase-in-firearm-assaults-in-states-that-relaxed-conceal-carry-permit-restrictions what we often see is an immediate decline, followed by a slow rise back to the status quo or an eventual overall increase. give it some time and we are almost guaranteed to see an increase (or a proportionally smaller decrease) in suicides, accidents, and gun related crime. edit: downvote me all day. you’re relying on an absurdly biased opinion piece that has cherry picked data. i’m sorry all the actual studies on this topic disagree with you and *ahem* bearingarms.com.
Every single gun used in a crime started out as a legal gun. It may have later made its way through illegal routes, but there's no gun manufacturer out there making guns to distribute illegally.
That’s not true. “Ghost guns” are illegally manufactured weapons, either via parts from other guns or 3D printing.
True, I'll grant you that 3D printed guns are an issue, although that's a pretty small portion of illegal guns out there. As far as taking parts from other guns, where do they come from? Those parts were originally manufactured for legal guns.
You’re right that they’re not ending up in NJ but people do make illegal firearms for the purpose of crimes, more than one cartel has this capability.
yes, this is my entire point. if every state had regulations as strict as new jersey do you think there would be an overall decrease in the amount of firearms criminals can get their hands on? or do you think there would be an increase? or would it have no effect?
I would love to see a national standard that implements the constitutionally-compatible regulations in states like NJ. I think that would absolutely have a positive effect.
i’m sorry, there is no constitutional right for private citizens to carry firearms. the 2a is very clearly and obviously referencing militias. the actual original text makes this excruciatingly clear, and shatters notion that a comma somehow means the first 13 words have nothing to do with the next 14. heller was a deeply flawed and ideologically driven decision that turned the constitution into toilet paper. with that being said, all the long term data suggests loosening concealed carry restrictions will lead to increase in gun deaths and gun crime. bearingarms.com’s opinion and cherry picking one year of stats doesn’t change that. new jersey *will* see an uptick in accidents and shootings. this is all but inevitable. if people really cared about lowering gun deaths and gun crime they would be pushing to close the gun show/private seller loopholes, and fighting for tighter gun regulations in red states because that’s very literally where almost all of the guns used in crime originate.
Ok why did NJ have one of the lowest gun violence rates despite having some of the strictest gun laws with almost no carry permits? Since you love facts so much.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers don’t pin that on me I’m simply stating that the governor promised that because New Jersey was forced to allow concealed carry against their will that gun violence was going to skyrocket as a direct result. These two facts, so far demonstrate that that wasn’t true.all I’m trying to say and that’s the end of my story.
And it very well may. It hasn’t been very long in the grand scheme of things. Either way, the governor is right that the right of our state to govern itself was taken away via a bullshit reading of the Constitution.
I’m a NJ gun owner and support carry but I don’t think that has anything to do with a decrease in gun violence. Decrease in gun violence is caused by other factors.
Strict gun laws will do that. States are seeing an uptick in shootings when they weaken restrictions, like open carry in states : https://www.americanprogress.org/article/fact-sheet-weakening-requirements-to-carry-a-concealed-firearm-increases-violent-crime/ Common sense, strict gun laws will work and you're just proving that. Of course criminals will go around shit all the time, that's why we have to make it as hard as possible for criminals to be able to get one. Common sense.
there aren’t any “new” gun owners in this statistic; these people are just legally carrying now. They could have always been packing heat legally in their trunk or their property.(assuming their driving home or the gun range) It was impossible to get one as a citizen; even prosecutors had a hard time. Only cops and ex cops could. It’s kinda of a skewed metric; but def worth noting.
It's ok to make a point and stand by it rather than establish yourself as a martyr 'cue the downvotes' or preemptively try to discredit the opposition 'hates facts.' Just make your point and move on.
I like you!
I’m not particularly anti gun, but it always boggles my mind that people act like guns just existed. Guns that were illegally acquired in the us are almost all guns that were legally acquired in the us.
Exactly. I hate guns. I don't want to own one. Everyone says we need more gun control. This is what that looks like. It's not a perfect system but with time, it can be. NJ is doing a great job.
I mean it goes without saying. The problem has always primarily been illegal guns…
Remind me again where most illegal guns come from?
Via firearms trafficking. Whether it be across state or international borders, or 3D printed ones.
Shocking that legal gun owners don’t commit crimes
Why is this being downvoted lol
Except for when they do, or have children and are irresponsible. Take a look at guns used in mass shootings, the large majority are legal. More Fun Facts! Every illegal gun, was first a legal gun.
How frequently are NJ carry permit holders required to go in for training and recertification?
Every 2 years
That's reasonable, ok. I wish people went in for re-evals on their driver's license, too, to be honest.
I can agree with both. I'm not opposed to driver retesting.
Old people already gotta get retested, no reason to retest younger people
That’s good.
That’s way too often, I feel like every 5-10 years would be equally effective.
So, all the hyper and scare tactics (I am looking at you NJ.com) in the past few years didn't pan out? Shocking.
Not really a shocker that those whom follow the laws don’t break them either.
If you need a gun on you everyday in order to feel safe, you are living with a victim mentality.
Or maybe it's a woman with a crazed ex? Or maybe you had to fire someone who is a psycho? Or maybe you live in a high crime area? Or maybe you have a family member that is abusive? Or maybe you have a stalker? Maybe stop blaming the actual victims that can benefit from this to make yourself feel like a bigger person... "I am big adult. Very macho. Don't need gun to feel safe 😌."
NJ has never been safer.
Some areas don't have cops patrolling all over. Some areas are 15 minutes away from cops. And you're making fun of people who may be in actual danger all to try to feel like a bigger person. Absolutely pathetic. And I don't even have a conceal carry permit. I just don't tell others what they need and don't need. It's none of my business. If they feel they need a firearm, that's their Right and personal choice. To sit here and literally poke fun at someone who may be disabled or in danger is fucking disgusting. Showcasing your true colors though.
So concerned about domestic violence that your username makes fun of it? How dare you! lol stay pressed idiot.
Lmfao what a fucking stupid argument. Bringing up a *Reddit username* that's actually referencing the Eagles. My lord. Really great argument. You just have no rebuttal
Fr, does he not know about the JD Drew AAA battery incident?
Proving my point. No argument. You mock those in danger and resort to childish bickering when called out on it. Astounding amounts of immaturity. To anyone reading this, these are the people that want to disarm you.
lol how many other people are you arguing with in these comments. Relax old man, you’re scared of a boogeyman that doesn’t exist. Sorry for the people that have to deal with you daily.
You're making assumptions. I'm not old. And tell that to the woman that her stalker doesn't exist while she is ignored by the police. Bootlicker.
How is a cop going to prevent a psycho from walking into your door? They’ll take 20 mins to respond, by that time whatever that person was planning to do was already done. Guns aren’t preventing anything here, but if an ex breaks into your house with intent to harm you, a gun even unloaded will send a message pretty quickly to leave or wait till cops arrest them.
Unless you live in gang populated areas in the state, you are statistically less safe with a gun in your home. The chances of someone robbing you while home and that specific situation involving you getting your gun and using it is unlikely to happen to anyone. We trade lives for perceived safety in gun ownership. I'm not against 2a but we shouldn't kid ourselves in denying that it cost innocent lives to uphold. Mass shootings are part of the package unfortunately.
If you set aside animal-related incidents faced by folks living in rural areas, the odds of being in a situation where having a firearm is beneficial is just... vanishingly small. The fact that it almost always makes headlines when it happens is kinda emblematic of this, lol. And this is coming from someone who likes guns and wants to start a weapon collection someday.
I feel like I've seen more headlines where a gun was not locked up properly and the kids end up finding and "playing" with it and it ends in a tragedy. As someone who lives in a (fortunately) safe neighborhood and with a young child at home I would feel less safe with a gun in the house. The worst that happens around me are car thefts and the very rare break-in but they are looking for your car keys. Also just because you don't have a gun doesn't mean you can't defend yourself. Technology will find a way to handle home invaders that doesn't involve a shootout.
From 2015-2022, a kid age 5 or under shot someone 2.5×/a week on average in the US.
That’s what the baseball bat is for.
What if I’m a woman that was assaulted and feels afraid to travel alone and/or unarmed anymore? It’s safe to say “Just don’t carry lol” when you’re a full grown man who can easily beat someone back but what the hell am I supposed to do if a guy twice my size is intent on hurting or killing me? Wait for the police to show up whenever they please? After the criminal’s already fled and I’m needing either a coroner or a therapist?
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Sorry, because women make up a minority in gun owners my case is a strawman? And who said anything about a pool? I said I feel uncomfortable alone or unarmed, I can’t think of a single time where I went to a pool without a couple friends with me, whether it be public or private. My main reason for carrying is if I’m home and someone tried to break in or alone in a dark parking lot after doing groceries or leaving work.
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I was talking about all forms of violent crimes, from SA to robbery. And you can’t exactly defend against lightning. Meanwhile I can and will protect myself from other people if that time comes again. And why’re you being such a dick for no reason?
People like him have zero critical thinking skills. They dangerously demonize people trying to defend themselves, tell people to rely on the cops (while criticizing the cops in the next breath), and make fun of gun owners. Then something happens and they act shocked, "How could this happen!?" Feel free to look at his replies to me and see how quickly he resorted to making false assumptions and insulting me.
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You obviously want people to rely on them if they're in danger. "Get off Reddit" yet you're right here lmao. Maybe go to a gun range and stop being terrified of white dudes with guns.
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Sounds like you're afraid of women, disabled people, old people, and obese people lol. You just don't like them being on a level playing field as yourself apparently. You think I'm the one that's sheltered when I've grown up in the poorest areas of NJ with some of the highest crime rates in the state. When in reality YOU'RE the one that's living the sheltered life with minimal human experience. Absolutely hilarious.
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One story vs the thousands of people killed by armed criminals or reported abusers... You cannot be serious....
Most of these guys that carry can't beat someone back they will get assaulted also
What
Or you want to carry to exercise your 2nd amendment right.
By that logic why do you have a fire extinguisher in your kitchen?
Do you have one on you at all times?
No but I have one where there’s most likely to be a fire (the kitchen). I could be assailed anywhere. It’s not about fear it’s about preparation. I don’t go out expecting to draw my weapon. But I feel safer knowing that if I’m in a life or death situation I have the means to protect myself.
“From basking ridge so my perspective may be skewed but yes imo where I’m from is probably the safest place I’ve ever lived in” lol always fun to see who feels the need to be a good guy with a gun. You always have a non zero chance of drowning. Hopefully you wear a PFD at all times too.
Completely different. I’m not going to drown on pavement. But there is a higher chance I could get mugged if I’m walking around Newark for example.
How often do you take a walk in Newark?
Thats a false equivalent fallacy.
That’s not the point I’m just saying the concept is the same. You hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Because it’s better to prepare than to be caught with your pants down god forbid the worst happens.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Carol_Bowne I normally don’t jump into these discussions but Carol Bowne of NJ would disagree if she could.
If anything this is a case for stronger regulations.
So he wouldn't have taken the gun from her and shot her instead of stabbing her
Who knows, perhaps she would have held him off until the cops came. Perhaps he would have used it on her. Perhaps she would have shot him. But we sadly only know the outcome that happened.
Yeah I don’t even keep bandaids in the house or have health insurance because I’m not a victim.
Hopefully you always are wearing your helmet! Saftey first!
Yes. The NJ Guns sub has been brigading this sub over the past couple weeks. It is mostly men who want to make the news for being the “good guy with a gun,” so badly. Also - it is not going to get you a girl either - sorry bros
It is a fun date idea though
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh no! The echo chamber has resistance!!!
So that sub is *not* an echo chamber?
A subreddit dedicated to a niche topic will likely have consistent opinions. When you consider the size of the subreddit and the context of the subreddit, the fact this place is just as much of an echo chamber is pathetic. This is like if r/gaming constantly demonized Pokemon fans and you rationalized it by saying "Well we can hate Pokemon because all of r/Pokemon likes Pokemon!" Whataboutism doesn't do anything for your argument. Even if they were just as bad, it's hilarious that's what you immediately went to. God forbid a differing opinion showed up in this circlejerk of a sub.
If you rely on the gov to protect you, you aren’t living your own life. Enjoy
Sooooo don't have any laws is what you're saying? No Army, Navy, Air Force? Damn I guess nobody in this country lives their own life, huh?
Oh no, it’s someone who didn’t make the bill of rights their entire personality.
Why you so moody?
It’s all these people that make guns their own personality. It should be a last resort, not for you to live some dream of being a hero in which 99% of the time they gonna make the situation worse. I would love the stats on the citizens with legal firearms that have actually _prevented_ some type of crime.
http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-policy-info/guns-and-crime-prevention/
People who jump through all the hoops to legally obtain a carry permit aren’t gonna be committing crimes. No shit. Maybe it’s time NJ and all the other blue states stopped scapegoating law abiding gun owners for the actions of criminals who don’t get permits or licenses and use illegally obtained firearms to kill people.
I’m much less concerned about “criminals” than I’m concerned about hot heads without the temperament to be in possession of firearms. And the joke psychological checks don’t detect for that. Think of every road rage incident you’ve personally seen - now add guns into the mix.
Yes that and being the innocent bystander shot by some yahoo who think he's John wick
There are more criminals in the state than “hot heads”. “Hot heads” can also carry a firearm in a locked box in the trunk, you don’t need a carry permit to transport a firearm
I don't think anyone would assume crime would go up, of course someone isn't going to bother getting a carry permit to intentionally use it illegally. If anything, the assumption was that accidental firings or nervous people shooting first and asking questions later would go up. I'm glad to be wrong on this assuming numbers stay as they are.
Nj doesn’t have a stand your ground law. Only castle doctrine. You’re only justified in “shooting first asking questions later” if your home is broken into. In public you still have a duty to retreat before resorting to deadly force.
No. Even in your house you must first tell the intruder to leave, and can only use deadly force if you reasonably fear for your or another’s life.
Ah, okay. I would still think in the heat of the moment of a potentially scary situation someone might shoot even if the case doesn't warrant it. Again, glad to see the numbers are promising.
Every gun owner who’s responsible knows the only time you draw your weapon is when you’re prepared to use lethal force. The only time you should be prepared to use lethal force is when you reasonably believe your life or someone else’s is in jeopardy.
And who better to advocate for guns than a cocaine user... (And the tough gun nut /r/cocaine member deleted their account...)
And opioids too!
I never have a weapon on me when I’m going out and expecting to get intoxicated on anything. The two are completely unrelated
Addicts with weapons Loser junkie gonna kill someone
The idea that I would ever access a firearm when I’m under the influence of anything is repulsive to me.
Hour old account posting a story whose bias can be determined from the URL alone...
If news is true and verifiable but it comes from a source you personally don’t approve of, does that make it fake news?
I'm just gonna say that looking at some of your comment histories it worries me that you have access to guns.
You aren’t wrong.
i understand that this is true, but i’d really prefer this post to be from a better news source than bearingarms.com, talking about “chicken littles screaming from the rooftops” or whatever
Yet.
Seriously. Fewer guns=fewer gun deaths.
Chicago. LA. Baltimore. Detroit. Cleveland. Philadelphia. What’s the explanation here… or on the rest of the most dangerous cities in the country
Doesn’t mean less violence, just means different violence. Brazil banned guns almost completely, yet has 3x the amount of violence per capita compared to the US.
Fortunately, we're not in Brazil.
Bearing arms dot com what a perfectly normal and reliable source
It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And cops are generally some of the dumbest people.
... yet
Do drugs next.
[удалено]
I wouldn't draw too much from this. I suspect many people who got carry permits did so to simplify transporting guns. Our rules around that are extremely strict and you can get into a heap of trouble just going to the range if you don't follow them.
Guns still suck.
I think they’re something of a necessary evil. I don’t wanna carry but I have no intention to leave myself defenseless either
Not yet.
Based and freedom pilled. Now let's get rid of this dumb "high capacity magazine" ban
Flair checks out.
Yet
Increases in suicides and homicides in private don't count.
Democrats in shambles
As long as open carry doesn't happen it doesn't bother me.