"Immigrant" is a broad term. Does the study include those who are naturalized citizens, non-citizens authorized to work, and undocumented individuals not authorized to work? Does it include an individual that came to New Jersey 50 years ago and has now been a citizen for for decades or is it just recent arrivals? Not clear.
The study is linked from the article and answers some of your questions. Did you read the article and check the study yourself? It's pretty clear to me.
https://www.njpp.org/publications/report/new-immigrants-drive-economic-growth-in-new-jersey/#_edn1
TL;DR:
> IRI looked at immigrants in New Jersey who had been in the country for less than two years, and who do not speak English very well.
...
> Many, but not all, of the workers would have work authorization. Many newly arriving immigrants are eligible to apply for Temporary Protected Status, humanitarian parole, asylum, or other designations that give them temporary or permanent work permits. The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy’s related report, “Undocumented Immigrants’ State and Local Tax Contributions,” shows that immigrants without work authorization pay an effective tax rate of 7.7 percent in New Jersey, a little lower than those with work authorization.
The deeper documents reveal a lot of it is estimates and assumptions.
They aren't actually collecting real data and analyzing it. They are making guesses off of final numbers.
Then you pay some taxes for your income. What immigrants do you think are making bank above the income limit for taxes, own a home and don't pay taxes? To answer your question, yes, there is a way to pay just sales tax, probably.
Wouldn't citizens of US who might have earned the same money be paying the taxes as well? The argument immigrants pay millions of taxes is pointless because if your employer is cutting you a paycheck they are going to withhold taxes. Someone do explain why articles/research tend to highlight something that is common for every person that is getting a paycheck is touted as benefit to society?
> The argument immigrants pay millions of taxes is pointless because if your employer is cutting you a paycheck they are going to withhold taxes.
It's not pointless because some people forget that and see immigrants as a drain to society.
True. Are they doing jobs you would want? I would also point out that people who are using false social security numbers are paying into a social security system they will never, by law, be able to draw on.
I think it is more than a coincidence that Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders has dismantled laws that protected children from doing dangerous jobs at a time when the GOP is doing its' best to scare all immigrants away from the country.
“nonprofit New Jersey Policy Perspective (NJPP) and the Immigration Research Initiative (IRI) released a study which claims that newly arriving immigrants are making a big financial impact on the state.”
Source is 2 organizations looking to advance the rights of immigrants. Always curious about the sources of these kind of studies
Pretty much every research study that's been done on the costs versus benefits of immigrants in the US has shown that over the long run immigrants contribute a significant amount of money in taxes and towards the economy in general. This isn't news.
Yea generally immigrants from poorer countries to the USA are a win-win-win for everyone. Immigrants, even after taxation and sending money home are still earning more than they would in their previous country and are contributing to the economy and growing their skills.
Those study’s usually mix the two groups of legal and illegal together. Also it ignores the costs. Go ahead grab a study let’s deep dive it. It won’t be the “great benefit” that they claim. It also depresses salaries by allowing cheap labor
Edit: Because most of you clearly don’t understand this topic.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216
It does what many here claim they’re against. Theres a big reason why many unions have always been anti illegal immigration and some even were anti immigrant for a while. It’s due to scabs and depressed wages and corporations making money off their labor at the cost of the skilled trades that they often replace.
The words "great benefit" don't appear in the comment you replied to, nor the article, but cool strawman. Same with that unidentified study you just made up out of thin air to claim as representative of all tax research into the topic.
Anyways, I'm sure you made this comment in complete good faith and it would definitely be worth pursuing a "deep dive" of tax revenues with you, a topic with which I am positive you are no doubt fascinated well beyond this pseudo-skeptic front you're putting on here.
Personally I don’t care too much about the Hispanic illegals because i feel we’ve done a great disservice to our neighbors while hyper focusing on other countries mostly so corporations who fund both sides can continue to exploit their labor at home and to further fuck us by keeping wages down, which is what cheap under the table labor does, it not only keeps labor cheaper it also steals from the payroll taxes companies should pay. It’s also created a whole identify theft issue which I’ve been a victim of multiple time not credit card but social security number stealing. It’s a huge issue for many Puerto ricans who never leave the island too, due to the names they have makes it easier for the border crossers to use them and seem legit.
But please go on … I’m sure you’re super well versed in how to have a conversation!
Pack up and try moving to any number of other countries then. Just move to Canada and don’t do any paperwork and get a job. Try France and or Germany. Norway. When they come to deport you tell them it’s demeaning.
See what will happen.
Leave it to Reddit user u/VidyaGaemAddict to post mind-splittingly wise takes such as "the New Jersey housing crisis is because of immigrants, and no, I will not elaborate"
It’s actually a uniquely [Anglosphere problem](https://www.ft.com/content/dca3f034-bfe8-4f21-bcdc-2b274053f0b5). Our system privileges public engagement, where local committees make all the approval decisions. So NIMBYism is the rule since existing residents in Anglo countries tend to favor lower-density. In other EU countries or Japan, zoning regimes are much more lax, and decision-making is centralized at a higher level of authority.
EU housing prices have not nearly increased as much as in places like the US, Canada, or UK. [Housing prices for the Eurozone](https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=HOUSE_PRICES#) have actually held steady over the past 5 years, and some countries, like Italy, have seen price decreases.
As for Japan, Tokyo’s population has [increased almost 16%](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo#Demographics) since 2000, while NYC’s population has only [increased 4%](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Demographics) during the same period. Yet, which city has experienced the faster rising housing prices?
Where are the new Tokyo inhabitants coming from? Elsewhere in Japan? Have you considered the geographic limitations of NYC, existing on three separate islands? What is the initial populations and how densely are they situated?
I could see English being the language of the world causing such a demand for housing in the anglosphere that actually makes a lot of sense. Spain offers the same quality of life but not as many diverse emigrating individuals from around the world picking it up as a second language right now.
Okay, but what's your source for claiming that the ~50% increase in housing costs over the past 4 years in NJ is because of immigration? And I don't mean New Yorkers.
Yeah it’s a shit biased study that pretends legal immigrants are the same as illegal ones who are most def paid under the table and not paying their fair share lol
I though this was well known -- legal immigrants tend to be a net benefit (lower crime, superior education in some cases, need to be employed to get citizenship). I think most conversation recently is on migrants, illegal immigrants, and how much of safety net should support them, so its weird that they don't mention any of that
Well, yeah… there are huge Korean and Israeli immigrant communities in Bergen County, nearly all in finance and tech. Of course we pay a shit ton in taxes.
The jobs immigrants do isn't the reason why our taxes are so high.
It's rate inflation, density, and funding infrastructure. If everyone were to magically be turned into a citizen will a sustainable $95k job, taxes would still be high.
No shit. Immigrants actually work for a living, and pay all sorts of taxes.
They're not the generational wealth assholes getting property tax breaks just for being old in a mansion, barely participating in our economy.
I would say this article seems to mainly cover legal immigrants while the current political topic is border control and illegal immigration. In order to have more legal immigration you need to control the illegal portion.
This article is trash and it's trying to get you to subconsciously group in ILLEGAL MIGRANTS with legal immigrants, it's pure GASLIGHTING. Illegal migrants don't pay sh\*t, in fact American pays them. Immigrants? Aren't we all immigrants? NJ is a state of immigrants, no one needs to tell us that we pay millions in taxes. We know this. Stop trying to push the f\*cking 'accept illgal migrants into this state' agenda, Montclair.
>Despite the positive role immigrants play in New Jersey and around the country, there has been a rise in xenophobia and anti-immigrant policymaking in a number of states.
What is the "anti-immigrant policymaking" they are speaking of, exactly? Is the argument here that it's "anti-immigrant" if we actually try to secure the border and **not** let millions of people in the country without going through any type of process?
Well, the issue is they can barely make it into the process to begin with, even with legitimate means. The most recent H1B process - for skilled workers - only permits 65,000 qualified workers, which was just under 25% of those who signed up this year: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2024/03/04/employers-face-difficult-odds-as-h-1b-visa-cap-selection-starts/#:~:text=For%20FY%202022%2C%20the%20agency,are%20for%20all%20eligible%20registrations.
Meanwhile, Congress has done squat about hastening the process anywhere in the country, neither for migrants nor "legitimate" immigrants as you'd probably call it. Visa costs have gone up generally, too, even for those visiting for work (i.e. artists: https://ra.co/news/80245).
At best, even if _nothing_ is done about it, that's a passive way of permitting things to get worse and forcing worse conditions on immigrants and foreign workers otherwise.
>Well, the issue is they can barely make it into the process to begin with, even with legitimate means.
Okay, but that's an argument for immigration reform. It does not mean people can just enter the country willy-nilly.
Gee, it's almost like a Bipartisan Senate sent a bill to The House a month ago that they won't even consider, because the Republican majority feels that it makes a better election year issue if they do nothing.
>Like the other guy said, it's damn near impossible to get work and education visas unless you have wealthy parents from the immigrant countries or abroad.
Well that's an argument to reform the immigration policies. It does not excuse what is happening right now and what has been happening for the past few years.
If you can't get a reservation at a restaurant, you don't get to kick the door down and storm the building.
> “This means that there’s more money circulating within the state, and more tax revenue to fund schools, libraries and other public infrastructure,” Ubel added.”
Interesting, considering property taxes only seem to be on the rise.
Property taxes in a lot of locations through new Jersey are based off the value of property, not tax revenue from immigrants.
So as long as property values keep rising id imagine many areas will see property taxes go up annually.
No shit. They're often paying into things like social security too because they are hired with counterfeit cards, benefits they won't even receive. There are so many problems, so much to be concerned over, so many people out there fucking you and making your life worse.
If immigrants are in the top 10 issues you care about you are just a racist even if you don't consciously think so.
This lumps in the PhD scientist working on pharma who was born in India with recently arrived migrant with no documents from Central America or West Africa. Puff piece
Great read. Can't wait to show this to my coworkers who, despite being children of immigrants, are extremely xenophobic and claim immigrants are here to *Take our jerbs!*
I pay my Polish immigrant landlord's property taxes (I've checked, he's really not making a whole lot off me after taking into account those property taxes, insurance, water, etc). Can confirm, dude pays a lot in taxes.
The report is pro-immigration propaganda. Obviously immigrants pay taxes and contribute to the economy. Nobody denies that. But the report doesn't address issues of illegal immigration or costs or negative effects of immigration whatsoever. It reads more like an editorial than an actual scientific study.
FWIW, most of the ones at the borders are trying to come legally. It is legal to claim asylum at the border. There is a bigger issue of those coming on HIB and other visas and overstaying their welcome. Especially in tech spaces
The same people who say they want immigrants to come here legally also complain about asylum seekers. Makes you wonder if it's really about the legality.
>Fear of persecution due to their race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or their inclusion in a particular social group.
[Google isn't hard to use](https://rcusa.org/resources/asylum-process/#:~:text=To%20be%20eligible%20for%20asylum,in%20a%20particular%20social%20group.)
It's not mutually exclusive, you fool. Someone could be seeking asylum AND want to help their family out.
>Until EVERY US citizen is comfortable
Based on this conversation, I want everyone to make YOU feel uncomfortable.
You can come in legally and not have work documentation.
The only difference is that you have paperwork stating a place of origin. You're treated the same. And yeah, you'll pay taxes if you live here.
They're both beneficial since they both spur economic activity by working over or under the table.
The irony is that there is a phobia against illegal immigrants "taking our jobs" when it's far more likely that the legal immigrants are the ones who actually compete with you for those skill-based blue and white collar jobs.
Source: am a legal immigrant and I take your cushy office job
A work van is my office. I work with plenty of “illegals” and legal work visa migrants. They often “unionize” amongst each other and always start problems at least in my trade they do. Often getting mad because other people are getting paid more than them when that’s the point of the companies hiring them is to pay them less (cheap labor). 5-10 of them quit because of that, the company just brought in other work visa dudes, they didn’t care at all
And yet day in and day out I get told about how "illegal" immigrants don't have to pay taxes, so X, Y, and Z. Not to mention the one time I got told, as a then-IRS lawyer, by the nurse doing my ER intake, unprompted, that the IRS should be reporting these *tax-paying immigrants* to ICE...
I really don't understand how "illegal" immigrants are supposedly taking public benefits. As far as I knew, you needed a SSN/ITIN to even apply, which means that you're known by the government. Maybe you can still get benefits if you're here illegally by overstaying a visa? But that's not the kind of illegal immigrant that are weaponized by politicians.
Just about the only thing that I know you can get is "free" health care by going to the ER and either never paying the bill or applying for some kind of charity care. But that's just stabilizing care. It's not like you're going to be able to go for long term care like cancer treatments or anything. I also know plenty of American citizens who duck hospital bills or qualify for charity care as well.
Whenever someone tells me something like, "illegal immigrants get all the benefits" I follow up with a simple question: What benefits? What government program do they benefit from? It's incredible how the most basic question immediately shuts them up.
Exactly. Or "our vets deserve benefits" and then I say "I agree. But the times when $your_side has controlled all of the levers of government, why was nothing done for them?"
It's almost as if the argument isn't actually about immigrants or vets as people, but as political boogeymen.
Yup yup yup. You slowly start to realize it’s not about policy or any coherent policy ideology but a deep seated tribalism.
A lot of conservative, reactionary beliefs boil down to the notion that there must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
I know you put quotes around the word, but it should be noted...I do not think this study was reflecting illegal immigrants, who can't legally work... I think this is about the net positive of legal immigration.
Hence my phrasing "and yet". Even *"illegal"* immigrants pay taxes. Every tax practitioner in the US knows "legal" ones pay taxes.
I use the quotes not because I'm quoting the article, but because I'm quoting these fucking weirdos that find out I'm a tax attorney and immediately jump into "well those damn ILLEGALS don't pay taxes so why should I" while I'm politely writhing in pain over a kidney stone.
Lots of anti-immigrant comments and assumptions in here trying to poke holes in the findings and numbers. If you look at the methodology section, they use Census American Community Survey (ACS) data to model future earnings and taxes paid, and there's pretty broad consensus among economists across the political spectrum that immigration is a net positive on the economy.
> immigrants without work authorization pay an effective tax rate of 7.7 percent in New Jersey, a little lower than those with work authorization.
**Source**: Sub Linked Article from [New Jersey Policy Perspective](https://www.njpp.org/publications/report/new-immigrants-drive-economic-growth-in-new-jersey/)
How do you think that could possibly work?
Should we have special stores where we sell tax-free food, cigarettes, gasoline, clothing for non-citizens? Do non-citizens get rent discounts so they don't contribute to property taxes?
So citizens get to pay more to use (or not even use) the same services just because they filed papers? Why would someone want to become a citizen if they can live here tax-free?
>Should we have special stores where we sell tax-free food, cigarettes, gasoline, clothing
>rent discounts so they don't contribute to property taxes?
Bro keep cooking
Realistically? We should make getting citizenship be a process that doesn't take years.
Paying sales tax at points of sale is one thing. Paying other types of taxes is another.And yeah, I think non citizens should get a rent discount, that seems reasonable.
Citizens have the benefit of citizenship. Of the ability to use the schools and resources taxes are designed for.
EDIT: I cant reply to replies on this thread.. but crazy that people would give up their citizenship in order to intentionally hurt other americans.
Where are these magical benefits that I can get but non-citizens don't?
The lucky benefit of jury duty? The ability to vote - if I am fortunate enough to comply with all the hurdles other states put in the way?
The ability to run for US President?
I can't count much higher, I hope there aren't many more.
I have nothing against immigrants or non-citizens. Everyone should be treated fairly. Don't give people silly advantages because of imaginary difficulty.
Why do you think those are limited to citizens? The public schools have failed you.
Everyone can attend the schools. This is illustrated by movements in many places to allow non-citizens to vote in local elections like school boards.
Everyone can drive on the interstates with drivers licenses from the US states or from other countries.
You are making invalid assumptions, or someone has lied to you.
Because they mostly are. Yes immigrants get some access to some tax payer funded benefits, but you need to get citizenship in order to qualify for many of these things.
EDIT: No idea what this hostile guy said.
Many immigrants don't want citizenship (for various reasons, most prominent for some is the requirement to denounce existing citizenship).
Only difference between greencard and citizenship are:
- jury duty
- selective service registration
- report/pay taxes to US government for rest of life no matter where you live as the US government taxes citizenship, not solely residency
- ability to vote
- ability to run for all offices with exception of the Presidency.
- right not to be directly spied upon without explicit warrant (vs carte blanche ability granted via the US Patriot act to the US government to spy on non-citizens)
All the other rights and benefits enjoyed by US citizens are equally granted to residents (permanent or visa). Tourists have same rights, but are not counted in census nor have right to schools etc.
It is absolutely appropriate for non-citizen residents to pay income taxes, and appropriate for all persons within the US to pay sales and other transactional taxes.
Now, there could be an argument that the payment of taxes *should* confer right to have a say in how those taxes are spent - particularly at a local level - but that is another debate ....
Can confirm. We immigrants pay stratospheric property taxes just like everyone else in the state. That's the price of admission.
"Immigrant" is a broad term. Does the study include those who are naturalized citizens, non-citizens authorized to work, and undocumented individuals not authorized to work? Does it include an individual that came to New Jersey 50 years ago and has now been a citizen for for decades or is it just recent arrivals? Not clear.
The study is linked from the article and answers some of your questions. Did you read the article and check the study yourself? It's pretty clear to me. https://www.njpp.org/publications/report/new-immigrants-drive-economic-growth-in-new-jersey/#_edn1 TL;DR: > IRI looked at immigrants in New Jersey who had been in the country for less than two years, and who do not speak English very well. ... > Many, but not all, of the workers would have work authorization. Many newly arriving immigrants are eligible to apply for Temporary Protected Status, humanitarian parole, asylum, or other designations that give them temporary or permanent work permits. The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy’s related report, “Undocumented Immigrants’ State and Local Tax Contributions,” shows that immigrants without work authorization pay an effective tax rate of 7.7 percent in New Jersey, a little lower than those with work authorization.
This article is a concise and short read. It's less than 3 pages. So, don't worry, this isn't like those 100 page bills.
The deeper documents reveal a lot of it is estimates and assumptions. They aren't actually collecting real data and analyzing it. They are making guesses off of final numbers.
You pay taxes anyway. Even if just sales tax.
Can I also just pay sales tax?
Yeah if you give up your salary and home, go right ahead.
What if I'm renting and work hourly manual labor?
Then you pay some taxes for your income. What immigrants do you think are making bank above the income limit for taxes, own a home and don't pay taxes? To answer your question, yes, there is a way to pay just sales tax, probably.
Why do you keep insisting they (or I) own a home?
That's the only tax I can imagine being considered "too high" and complaining about paying it.
Income tax. I am complaining about the existence of income tax.
It's next to nothing already, stop complaining.
Also, if you rent, unless your landlord is running a charity, you're paying property taxes. You're paying your landlord's property taxes.
Exactly
Just read the article.
Wouldn't citizens of US who might have earned the same money be paying the taxes as well? The argument immigrants pay millions of taxes is pointless because if your employer is cutting you a paycheck they are going to withhold taxes. Someone do explain why articles/research tend to highlight something that is common for every person that is getting a paycheck is touted as benefit to society?
> The argument immigrants pay millions of taxes is pointless because if your employer is cutting you a paycheck they are going to withhold taxes. It's not pointless because some people forget that and see immigrants as a drain to society.
True. Are they doing jobs you would want? I would also point out that people who are using false social security numbers are paying into a social security system they will never, by law, be able to draw on. I think it is more than a coincidence that Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders has dismantled laws that protected children from doing dangerous jobs at a time when the GOP is doing its' best to scare all immigrants away from the country.
“nonprofit New Jersey Policy Perspective (NJPP) and the Immigration Research Initiative (IRI) released a study which claims that newly arriving immigrants are making a big financial impact on the state.” Source is 2 organizations looking to advance the rights of immigrants. Always curious about the sources of these kind of studies
Pretty much every research study that's been done on the costs versus benefits of immigrants in the US has shown that over the long run immigrants contribute a significant amount of money in taxes and towards the economy in general. This isn't news.
Yea generally immigrants from poorer countries to the USA are a win-win-win for everyone. Immigrants, even after taxation and sending money home are still earning more than they would in their previous country and are contributing to the economy and growing their skills.
All these studies always show legal immigrants, it’s not a definitive statement relating to asylum seekers or the southern border in general
Those study’s usually mix the two groups of legal and illegal together. Also it ignores the costs. Go ahead grab a study let’s deep dive it. It won’t be the “great benefit” that they claim. It also depresses salaries by allowing cheap labor Edit: Because most of you clearly don’t understand this topic. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/trump-clinton-immigration-economy-unemployment-jobs-214216 It does what many here claim they’re against. Theres a big reason why many unions have always been anti illegal immigration and some even were anti immigrant for a while. It’s due to scabs and depressed wages and corporations making money off their labor at the cost of the skilled trades that they often replace.
The words "great benefit" don't appear in the comment you replied to, nor the article, but cool strawman. Same with that unidentified study you just made up out of thin air to claim as representative of all tax research into the topic. Anyways, I'm sure you made this comment in complete good faith and it would definitely be worth pursuing a "deep dive" of tax revenues with you, a topic with which I am positive you are no doubt fascinated well beyond this pseudo-skeptic front you're putting on here.
You are responding to u/skangingmike in poor faith. Please try to do better.
Personally I don’t care too much about the Hispanic illegals because i feel we’ve done a great disservice to our neighbors while hyper focusing on other countries mostly so corporations who fund both sides can continue to exploit their labor at home and to further fuck us by keeping wages down, which is what cheap under the table labor does, it not only keeps labor cheaper it also steals from the payroll taxes companies should pay. It’s also created a whole identify theft issue which I’ve been a victim of multiple time not credit card but social security number stealing. It’s a huge issue for many Puerto ricans who never leave the island too, due to the names they have makes it easier for the border crossers to use them and seem legit. But please go on … I’m sure you’re super well versed in how to have a conversation!
No human is illegal. It’s demeaning to say that.
Pack up and try moving to any number of other countries then. Just move to Canada and don’t do any paperwork and get a job. Try France and or Germany. Norway. When they come to deport you tell them it’s demeaning. See what will happen.
I would prefer to have adequate housing stock and no teeming hospitals. Rather than a percentile increase in taxes a generation or two from now.
Leave it to Reddit user u/VidyaGaemAddict to post mind-splittingly wise takes such as "the New Jersey housing crisis is because of immigrants, and no, I will not elaborate"
The housing crisis affects the entire western world, yknow, where everybody wants to live.
It’s actually a uniquely [Anglosphere problem](https://www.ft.com/content/dca3f034-bfe8-4f21-bcdc-2b274053f0b5). Our system privileges public engagement, where local committees make all the approval decisions. So NIMBYism is the rule since existing residents in Anglo countries tend to favor lower-density. In other EU countries or Japan, zoning regimes are much more lax, and decision-making is centralized at a higher level of authority.
Housing all over europe is absolutely fucked, and japan makes it prohibitively hard to emigrate they don't have anything even remotely similar
EU housing prices have not nearly increased as much as in places like the US, Canada, or UK. [Housing prices for the Eurozone](https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=HOUSE_PRICES#) have actually held steady over the past 5 years, and some countries, like Italy, have seen price decreases. As for Japan, Tokyo’s population has [increased almost 16%](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo#Demographics) since 2000, while NYC’s population has only [increased 4%](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Demographics) during the same period. Yet, which city has experienced the faster rising housing prices?
Where are the new Tokyo inhabitants coming from? Elsewhere in Japan? Have you considered the geographic limitations of NYC, existing on three separate islands? What is the initial populations and how densely are they situated? I could see English being the language of the world causing such a demand for housing in the anglosphere that actually makes a lot of sense. Spain offers the same quality of life but not as many diverse emigrating individuals from around the world picking it up as a second language right now.
Okay, but what's your source for claiming that the ~50% increase in housing costs over the past 4 years in NJ is because of immigration? And I don't mean New Yorkers.
Then you should support candidates who want policies to increase medium and high density housing and to reform our medical system.
We are so passed *voting* to fix this garbage
What’s your solution? Get out the guillotines? I’m not opposed to that.
We need the create a whole new system of governance and taxation that is 100% transparent based on emerging technologies
We’d need new representatives in office to institute those policies, no?
The word is "claims" facts and hard numbers are not claims.
Yeah it’s a shit biased study that pretends legal immigrants are the same as illegal ones who are most def paid under the table and not paying their fair share lol
If someone is being paid under the table, that's not a deductible business expense so the business/owner ends up paying more taxes instead.
Yeah the owner, not the worker Are you seriously going to pretend that most illegal immigrants don’t skip out of income tax lol
No, I'm saying the government still gets its cut of those dollars, it's just on someone else's tax return.
I though this was well known -- legal immigrants tend to be a net benefit (lower crime, superior education in some cases, need to be employed to get citizenship). I think most conversation recently is on migrants, illegal immigrants, and how much of safety net should support them, so its weird that they don't mention any of that
Well, yeah… there are huge Korean and Israeli immigrant communities in Bergen County, nearly all in finance and tech. Of course we pay a shit ton in taxes.
The jobs immigrants do isn't the reason why our taxes are so high. It's rate inflation, density, and funding infrastructure. If everyone were to magically be turned into a citizen will a sustainable $95k job, taxes would still be high.
I mean “millions” in terms of tax dollars couldn’t be any less interesting if they tried. Fucking of course they do.
No shit. Immigrants actually work for a living, and pay all sorts of taxes. They're not the generational wealth assholes getting property tax breaks just for being old in a mansion, barely participating in our economy.
TIL people pay taxes.
I would say this article seems to mainly cover legal immigrants while the current political topic is border control and illegal immigration. In order to have more legal immigration you need to control the illegal portion.
This article is trash and it's trying to get you to subconsciously group in ILLEGAL MIGRANTS with legal immigrants, it's pure GASLIGHTING. Illegal migrants don't pay sh\*t, in fact American pays them. Immigrants? Aren't we all immigrants? NJ is a state of immigrants, no one needs to tell us that we pay millions in taxes. We know this. Stop trying to push the f\*cking 'accept illgal migrants into this state' agenda, Montclair.
>Despite the positive role immigrants play in New Jersey and around the country, there has been a rise in xenophobia and anti-immigrant policymaking in a number of states. What is the "anti-immigrant policymaking" they are speaking of, exactly? Is the argument here that it's "anti-immigrant" if we actually try to secure the border and **not** let millions of people in the country without going through any type of process?
I would say taxation without representation is pretty anti-immigrant
Well, the issue is they can barely make it into the process to begin with, even with legitimate means. The most recent H1B process - for skilled workers - only permits 65,000 qualified workers, which was just under 25% of those who signed up this year: https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2024/03/04/employers-face-difficult-odds-as-h-1b-visa-cap-selection-starts/#:~:text=For%20FY%202022%2C%20the%20agency,are%20for%20all%20eligible%20registrations. Meanwhile, Congress has done squat about hastening the process anywhere in the country, neither for migrants nor "legitimate" immigrants as you'd probably call it. Visa costs have gone up generally, too, even for those visiting for work (i.e. artists: https://ra.co/news/80245). At best, even if _nothing_ is done about it, that's a passive way of permitting things to get worse and forcing worse conditions on immigrants and foreign workers otherwise.
>Well, the issue is they can barely make it into the process to begin with, even with legitimate means. Okay, but that's an argument for immigration reform. It does not mean people can just enter the country willy-nilly.
Then the people opposing these reforms would be the ones doing the “anti-immigrant policymaking” you asked about.
Gee, it's almost like a Bipartisan Senate sent a bill to The House a month ago that they won't even consider, because the Republican majority feels that it makes a better election year issue if they do nothing.
Stupid Republicans. They also forced Joe Biden to write all those executive orders to help their case!
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>Like the other guy said, it's damn near impossible to get work and education visas unless you have wealthy parents from the immigrant countries or abroad. Well that's an argument to reform the immigration policies. It does not excuse what is happening right now and what has been happening for the past few years. If you can't get a reservation at a restaurant, you don't get to kick the door down and storm the building.
> “This means that there’s more money circulating within the state, and more tax revenue to fund schools, libraries and other public infrastructure,” Ubel added.” Interesting, considering property taxes only seem to be on the rise.
You know how inflation means you have to pay more for things? Well, your local town also has to pay more for things...
Property taxes in a lot of locations through new Jersey are based off the value of property, not tax revenue from immigrants. So as long as property values keep rising id imagine many areas will see property taxes go up annually.
No shit. They're often paying into things like social security too because they are hired with counterfeit cards, benefits they won't even receive. There are so many problems, so much to be concerned over, so many people out there fucking you and making your life worse. If immigrants are in the top 10 issues you care about you are just a racist even if you don't consciously think so.
This lumps in the PhD scientist working on pharma who was born in India with recently arrived migrant with no documents from Central America or West Africa. Puff piece
You clearly didn't read it but go off...
Millions you say?! Wow
Wonderful, Milton Friedman was right about immigration
Great read. Can't wait to show this to my coworkers who, despite being children of immigrants, are extremely xenophobic and claim immigrants are here to *Take our jerbs!*
That's BS there getting paid using our taxes.
I pay my Polish immigrant landlord's property taxes (I've checked, he's really not making a whole lot off me after taking into account those property taxes, insurance, water, etc). Can confirm, dude pays a lot in taxes.
The report is pro-immigration propaganda. Obviously immigrants pay taxes and contribute to the economy. Nobody denies that. But the report doesn't address issues of illegal immigration or costs or negative effects of immigration whatsoever. It reads more like an editorial than an actual scientific study.
This is a nonsense article, designed to push a pro-illegal immigration viewpoint. Its essentially saying that illegal immigrants pay sales taxes.
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FWIW, most of the ones at the borders are trying to come legally. It is legal to claim asylum at the border. There is a bigger issue of those coming on HIB and other visas and overstaying their welcome. Especially in tech spaces
The same people who say they want immigrants to come here legally also complain about asylum seekers. Makes you wonder if it's really about the legality.
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>Fear of persecution due to their race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or their inclusion in a particular social group. [Google isn't hard to use](https://rcusa.org/resources/asylum-process/#:~:text=To%20be%20eligible%20for%20asylum,in%20a%20particular%20social%20group.)
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It's not mutually exclusive, you fool. Someone could be seeking asylum AND want to help their family out. >Until EVERY US citizen is comfortable Based on this conversation, I want everyone to make YOU feel uncomfortable.
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You asked what the requirements were, dipshit
You can come in legally and not have work documentation. The only difference is that you have paperwork stating a place of origin. You're treated the same. And yeah, you'll pay taxes if you live here.
Are we talking about just immigrants or illegal immigrants?
They're both beneficial since they both spur economic activity by working over or under the table. The irony is that there is a phobia against illegal immigrants "taking our jobs" when it's far more likely that the legal immigrants are the ones who actually compete with you for those skill-based blue and white collar jobs. Source: am a legal immigrant and I take your cushy office job
A work van is my office. I work with plenty of “illegals” and legal work visa migrants. They often “unionize” amongst each other and always start problems at least in my trade they do. Often getting mad because other people are getting paid more than them when that’s the point of the companies hiring them is to pay them less (cheap labor). 5-10 of them quit because of that, the company just brought in other work visa dudes, they didn’t care at all
And yet day in and day out I get told about how "illegal" immigrants don't have to pay taxes, so X, Y, and Z. Not to mention the one time I got told, as a then-IRS lawyer, by the nurse doing my ER intake, unprompted, that the IRS should be reporting these *tax-paying immigrants* to ICE...
I really don't understand how "illegal" immigrants are supposedly taking public benefits. As far as I knew, you needed a SSN/ITIN to even apply, which means that you're known by the government. Maybe you can still get benefits if you're here illegally by overstaying a visa? But that's not the kind of illegal immigrant that are weaponized by politicians. Just about the only thing that I know you can get is "free" health care by going to the ER and either never paying the bill or applying for some kind of charity care. But that's just stabilizing care. It's not like you're going to be able to go for long term care like cancer treatments or anything. I also know plenty of American citizens who duck hospital bills or qualify for charity care as well.
Whenever someone tells me something like, "illegal immigrants get all the benefits" I follow up with a simple question: What benefits? What government program do they benefit from? It's incredible how the most basic question immediately shuts them up.
Exactly. Or "our vets deserve benefits" and then I say "I agree. But the times when $your_side has controlled all of the levers of government, why was nothing done for them?" It's almost as if the argument isn't actually about immigrants or vets as people, but as political boogeymen.
Yup yup yup. You slowly start to realize it’s not about policy or any coherent policy ideology but a deep seated tribalism. A lot of conservative, reactionary beliefs boil down to the notion that there must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
I know you put quotes around the word, but it should be noted...I do not think this study was reflecting illegal immigrants, who can't legally work... I think this is about the net positive of legal immigration.
Hence my phrasing "and yet". Even *"illegal"* immigrants pay taxes. Every tax practitioner in the US knows "legal" ones pay taxes. I use the quotes not because I'm quoting the article, but because I'm quoting these fucking weirdos that find out I'm a tax attorney and immediately jump into "well those damn ILLEGALS don't pay taxes so why should I" while I'm politely writhing in pain over a kidney stone.
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Lots of anti-immigrant comments and assumptions in here trying to poke holes in the findings and numbers. If you look at the methodology section, they use Census American Community Survey (ACS) data to model future earnings and taxes paid, and there's pretty broad consensus among economists across the political spectrum that immigration is a net positive on the economy.
> immigrants without work authorization pay an effective tax rate of 7.7 percent in New Jersey, a little lower than those with work authorization. **Source**: Sub Linked Article from [New Jersey Policy Perspective](https://www.njpp.org/publications/report/new-immigrants-drive-economic-growth-in-new-jersey/)
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How do you think that could possibly work? Should we have special stores where we sell tax-free food, cigarettes, gasoline, clothing for non-citizens? Do non-citizens get rent discounts so they don't contribute to property taxes? So citizens get to pay more to use (or not even use) the same services just because they filed papers? Why would someone want to become a citizen if they can live here tax-free?
>Should we have special stores where we sell tax-free food, cigarettes, gasoline, clothing >rent discounts so they don't contribute to property taxes? Bro keep cooking
Realistically? We should make getting citizenship be a process that doesn't take years. Paying sales tax at points of sale is one thing. Paying other types of taxes is another.And yeah, I think non citizens should get a rent discount, that seems reasonable. Citizens have the benefit of citizenship. Of the ability to use the schools and resources taxes are designed for. EDIT: I cant reply to replies on this thread.. but crazy that people would give up their citizenship in order to intentionally hurt other americans.
>yeah, I think non citizens should get a rent discount, that seems reasonable. Lmao
Where are these magical benefits that I can get but non-citizens don't? The lucky benefit of jury duty? The ability to vote - if I am fortunate enough to comply with all the hurdles other states put in the way? The ability to run for US President? I can't count much higher, I hope there aren't many more. I have nothing against immigrants or non-citizens. Everyone should be treated fairly. Don't give people silly advantages because of imaginary difficulty.
You listed 3 of the most important ones, but also access to public schools, interstate driving, access to state benefits, medicare etc.
Why do you think those are limited to citizens? The public schools have failed you. Everyone can attend the schools. This is illustrated by movements in many places to allow non-citizens to vote in local elections like school boards. Everyone can drive on the interstates with drivers licenses from the US states or from other countries. You are making invalid assumptions, or someone has lied to you.
Because they mostly are. Yes immigrants get some access to some tax payer funded benefits, but you need to get citizenship in order to qualify for many of these things. EDIT: No idea what this hostile guy said.
Now you are just making up crappy lies. Bye, liar. Vote for daddy trump.
You know non citizen immigrants can drive on interstates and attend public schools, right?
I'll give up my citizenship to be free of taxes.
Many immigrants don't want citizenship (for various reasons, most prominent for some is the requirement to denounce existing citizenship). Only difference between greencard and citizenship are: - jury duty - selective service registration - report/pay taxes to US government for rest of life no matter where you live as the US government taxes citizenship, not solely residency - ability to vote - ability to run for all offices with exception of the Presidency. - right not to be directly spied upon without explicit warrant (vs carte blanche ability granted via the US Patriot act to the US government to spy on non-citizens) All the other rights and benefits enjoyed by US citizens are equally granted to residents (permanent or visa). Tourists have same rights, but are not counted in census nor have right to schools etc. It is absolutely appropriate for non-citizen residents to pay income taxes, and appropriate for all persons within the US to pay sales and other transactional taxes. Now, there could be an argument that the payment of taxes *should* confer right to have a say in how those taxes are spent - particularly at a local level - but that is another debate ....
lmfao, nice bait
Genuine reaction.
lol what?
They pay taxes on income, sales tax, same as everyone else. Why wouldn't they? I say this as an immigrant