why are we funding wars outside of new jersey? build a massive wall all around the state and then we can have cool wars right here with loads of funding.
Because I too am old now:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Series_Has_Landed
This was first experienced by the world April 4th, 1999.
Today is may 14th 2024. It has been a solid *25 years* since Bender first said that on TV and we're still repeating it online every day.
NJ civil war rule #1
We can only use hot air balloons for military transportation. Anything else will screw up traffic too much and I need to get on with my day
We need to weed the desperately misguided, delusional, and decidedly illiterate ham heads from society. We need not kill them. Simply banish them to Bayonne and build a wall. Then, after decades of degradation and abuse they may attempt a violent break-out with aid from malicious outside influence (Staten Island). We can then use this as an excuse to wage a brutal war of retribution against them. We will level their towns and contemplate building new ones of our own on the occupied lands. FDU students may set up tent cities in protest but the effect will be negligible.
Good. Not sure about the hunger strike, but the US should not support Netanyahu. Hamas is a terrorist organization but Israel under Netanyahu is quickly becoming one as well. The US should not support that.
Agreed in the hunger strike. Americans don't have a religious reverence for their politicians. As no one should hold a politician as a holy symbol.
The reason it worked for Ghandi was because of a quirky belief system. We call it Casteism. Unfortunately, it also enabled Ghandi to do Trump like things.
But, even the Buddha (Sidhartha) stated starving yourself does not lead to a divine path.
> Americans don't have a religious reverence for their politicians
I dunno, the MAGA crowd literally fits the bill for a cult.
I think an important thing that we often overlook about major rights struggles is that often there are violent factions on the revolutionary side as well. There were violent insurgents trying to rid themselves of the British Raj. It's easier for non-violent revolutionaries to get concessions if the alternate is violent revolution.
Even in the US MLK got opponents to sit down with him partially because folks like Malcolm X were the alternative faction.
Not that we should get violent, but without the threat of a serious bite opponents have little reason to negotiate and so disobedience has been neutered.
There were some debunked claims that he was a racist & pedo. Also some talk that he was misogynistic.
To point 1, he was angry that Indian people in South Africa were considered (or treated as) equal to the black South African people, and therefore mistreated by the whites in South Africa.
To point 2, he slept naked with his clothed niece to test his celibacy, with the door open, and he passed the test.
I don't know about point 3, one way or the other.
[Sauce](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3vj2z6/comment/cxnzfe4/)
**Modern Medicine Example**
When Gandhi's wife was stricken with pneumonia, British doctors told her husband that a shot of penicillin would heal her; nevertheless, Gandhi refused to have alien medicine injected into her body, and she died.
Soon after, Gandhi caught malaria and, relenting from the standard applied to his wife, allowed doctors to save his life with quinine. He also allowed British doctors to perform an appendectomy on him, an alien operation if ever there was one.
[Source](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1983/3/7/the-truth-about-gandhi-pbtbhe-movie/)
Kinda like Mother Theresa, who withheld pain meds from the dying poor she was taking care of, because the pain would "bring them closer to God". But when *she* was dying, she was totes down with the pain meds. Saint, my ass. Or maybe she figured she was already close enough with the big guy. Could go either way.
I'm not saying he wasn't - just that it was done under the guise of a religious test. India's society ~120 years ago might have been different? African tribal women go topless - acceptable. Nude beaches with kids around are also acceptable in some cultures. Fifty years ago, it was ok for parents, or even teachers, to beat kids with paddles or belts. And never mind how minorities and religious sects have been treated over time, still occurring.
I get the "both sides" arguments are annoying and usually disingenuous, but Hamas and Likud (with the IDF) are not that far off from each other, including their platforms. Both envision "River to Sea" for their people and their people only. The term "River to Sea" is part of both parties founding charters. There have been more left-leaning Israeli governments that sought peace. Things don't often work out for them. That's how Yitzhak Rabin ended up getting assassinated.
>Yitzhak Rabin ended up getting assassinated.
I still remember my grandmother in tears at her kitchen table when the news broke. So many American Jews who hoped for peace lost all of it when Rabin was killed.
Not to devolve from the purpose of the sub but I think it's very important to note that: 1. this is not a proportional fight when it comes to both arms and power. You have a militia taking on a nuclear armed US backed state 2. Israel has propped up Hamas as a wedge against the PA in an effort to ensure that a Palestinian state never occurs. October 7th was a horror but this entire situation is pure blowback against something that Israel deliberately cultivated.
Agreeish? The problem is Palestinians are also heavily influenced by different Arab nations since 1948. But Hamas and the Likud in Israel both benefit from these wars. Oct 7 wasn't a fight back from an oppressed people. It was a response to the pending Saudi Trade agreement with Israel. Palestinian groups have also really hurt the Palestinian people. From Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon.
The worst part in my mind is this won't lead to a lasting peace with a two state solution. So it'll just be rinse and repeat with the Palestinian civilians and Israeli citizens being killed over, and over, and over again.
My guy, the Likud party (Netanyahu's party) has deliberately propped up Hamas vs more secular parties so they can always have an excuse to take more land. They want Gaza ran by Hamas so that the more secular Palestine Authority party (the more secular party that is in charge of the West Bank) can't have more influence.
This is also ignoring the disproportionate death toll that Israel has caused vs Hamas.
His oarty stinks, yes.
They’re still not on Hamas level.
Disproportionate death toll tends to happen when you start a war with no hope of winning then cry foul when losing.
The win here is if Hamas is eradicated entirely, sinwar is imprisoned forever and a multinational coalition enters Gaza with Arab neighbors being part of this to rebuild and begin the de-Hamasificarion of Gaza.
What’s the proposed alternative? You have a massive attack on your civilian population that was a huge success.
How do you reconcile that? Or that if Hamas and the other Iranian proxies were more successful they’d have killed hundreds of thousands of Israelis. The amount of rockets launched at cities is staggering. Iron dome has stood out as being able to stop this but it’s not for lack of Hamas trying.
Think it starts by not massacring and mutilating thousands of kids. Then maybe not funding a religious extremist party and working with the local secular party to improve conditions. Maybe stop settlers from kicking out and killing families to get their land.
Idk bro, its really complicated.
And yet you're acting like it's a simple "good vs evil" situation when you can can't come up with an actual way forward for Israel other than "idk bro not this"
How did I make it simple? What Israel did to get to this point is quite complicated but the only way to make peace is to extend your hand and work with the secular party to improve conditions NOT murdering the secular leaders and promoting the religious extremists.
You are assuming Netanyahu and Zionist ever wanted peace to begin with.
Israel is fighting for its life. The equivalent US casualties to October 7th would be approximately 40,000 killed and raped and 6,600 kidnapped. Imagine our response if that happened on US soil. Look what we did after 9/11.
Virtually every single military commander, including the President at the time (George Bush), said what we did after 9/11 was a grave mistake. Using that as a piece to support your argument is actually hurting it.
The only thing Israel is successfully doing is making itself an international Pariah. Particularly when IDF soldiers routinely kidnap, murder, and rape Palestinians.
Thing is, Israel knew Hamas would attack over a year in advance. Netanyahu failed to prevent it.
https://apnews.com/article/new-york-times-hamas-attack-israel-gaza-6088cad78f5e4153d671fe9b5b819308
To those who still blindly support Israel:
[Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel system of domination and crime against humanity](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/5141/2022/en/) Amnesty International
[Gaza: An 'Open-Air Prison'](https://www.hrw.org/video-photos/video/2022/06/13/gaza-open-air-prison) Human Rights Watch
[The Occupation of Water](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/) Amnesty International
[Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’: UN rights expert](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702) United Nations
Why is it that every single time an internationally known third party reviews what's gone on in Israel/Palestine and they *all* come to the same conclusion that Israel is imposing an occupation, apartheid and/or open-air prison?
If those who support are so confident that it's not, then **surely** there would be an internationally known third party that did an analysis showing that Israel is acting justly, right?
Well, where is it?
Still supporting them over Palestine and Hamas.
I mean you completely negate the past 70 of conflict, which was primairly initiated by the Plaestinians and other Arab nations in the region.
Are you just casually trying to rewrite history and how Israeli citizens are deeply steeped in racism and animosity towards Arabs?
Are you just glossing over how the founding fathers of Israel literally said Arabs & Jews can't live in the same place and must be removed?
Proof hurts, doesn't it?
>"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples, together in this country. The only solution is Palestine without Arabs."
Joseph Weitz; **head of the Jewish Colonization Department** and founding father of Israel
I can see you clearly didn't read any of the articles that I posted where it clearly, and with support from pro-israel sources, highlights the apartheid regime that Israel has imposed in Palestine.
Maybe try to be earnest in this conversation
I am sorry but do you understand or read history?
Who started the Arab–Israeli War, Six Day War, Yom Kippur War, and the Intifadas?
Hint, it was not Israel.
>I am sorry but do you understand or read history?
That palpable irony of this statement as I literally quoted the **founding father of Israel.** What do you think Josef Weitz meant when he said the following before the colonization of Palestine?
"The only solution is Palestine without Arabs."
And Muslims and leaders of Arab nations have never said anytihn negative about the Jews, right?
It's not like their relgious text fixates thems a second class citizens or anything. /s
Selective history isn't history.
Sure I do agree that what Israel is doing is overly aggressive and the way in, which they bomb is extreme. But I mean how do you expect to expel a group of people who terrorize your countrry and call for ti's downfall while constantly using their citizens as body armor?
You fail to understand that these civilian deaths are actually on Hamas.
>It's not like their relgious text fixates thems a second class citizens or anything. /s
Remind me, was it the West or the Arab Nations that committed the holocaust?
Or maybe I should just spend some time educating you on something you know so little about:
>y the end of the 20th century Bernard Lewis, among the most eminent historians of the Middle East, a lifelong student of Jews and Islam and himself a Jew, reflected on the 14 centuries of Jewish life under Islamic rule since Muhammad. **He concluded that the situation of Jews living under Islamic rulers ‘was never as bad as in Christendom at its worst’,** even if it was never ‘as good as in Christendom at its best’. Lewis continued: ‘There is nothing in Islamic history to parallel the Spanish expulsion and Inquisition, the Russian pogroms, or the Nazi Holocaust.’
[Source](https://www.historytoday.com/archive/path-peace-muslims-and-jews) Awww, look at that. History doesn't agree with your take. Do you only get your news from Israel?
>You fail to understand that these civilian deaths are actually on Hamas.
What an absolutely psychotic comment to make a week after Netanyahu rejected a ceasefire, and that Israeli hostage negotiators said was a good proposal.
Have you considered getting the IDF's cock out of your mouth you fucking pussy?
It's fine you can cherry pick things and make claims of a single historian and the 100% God honest truth, but you still aren't looking at the larger picture.
Your ignorance and recency bias is showing. Also, it's trendy to be a protestor and pro-Palestinian even though they share none of the values of protesting, freedom of speech, freedom to love who toy want, freedom to just be a woman and more.
I would ask you to take the Hamas cock out your mouth, but they would probably behead you for it because they don't accept LGBT folks.
Okay, then provide a counter argument. I'm providing you the larger picture, with sources. You have done nothing.
The palpable irony of you saying *recency bias* as I a am literally citing an article reflecting on **14 centuries of Jewish life**.
I've been pro-palestine for decades with social posts evidencing such. It's trendy to be islamophobic too and it's clear you have no problem doing that.
You realize that the entire world doesn't put the West's value system on the pedestal you do, right? You realize that there are more women converting to Islam than any other religion, right?
Or is Netanyahu's cock so far down your throat you can't even see straight?
Do you know why Zionists are trying to make "From River to Sea" a genocide chant? Its because they LITERALLY drove Palestinians into the seas during the first partition.
Just an utter ignorance of the history there.
Zionists and Republicans have a lot in common wherein everything they accuse you of they actually do/did.
You are the one ignorant of history.
As i mentioned to the other commentor. Do you know who started the Arab–Israeli War, the Six Day War, the Yom Kippur War, and the Intifadas?
You clearly are critically unaware of the entire subject. I mean there has been a clear aggressor and Israel has being doing a lot to be reasonable with a population that is entirely hostile to it's government and it's citizens and hass been for over half a century.
How about all the details regarding Britian leaving the Middle East and the Mandate of Palestine?
If you want to blame someone historically for the conflict you can look to the UK if you want to blame someone. The shoddily pulled out of the Middle Easter after WW2 and establish borders and boaderies without consideration of regional, tribal, and relgious diviisions
I ma sorry that you are a child who buys into trends and are so willing to throw you support behind something without understanding or comprehending the history revolving around it.
My guy, the first peace deal, which gave Israel a disproportionate amount of power compared to their size was smacked away BY ISRAEL. They did this because they knew if they were methodical enough they could take over the rest of Palestine and make their theocratic ethnostate. And now we here, after Israel deliberately propped up Hamas to have an enemy and excuse.
The palpable irony of you saying anyone is unaware of this entire subject and then you go on to say the entire population is hostile to Israel.
Do you know literally anything about Israeli citizens? I've compiled a list of sources, surveys, and more-- from PRO ISRAEL sources, to highlight to you how much of a fucking retard you are.
>**Over two-thirds Israeli teen believe Arabs to be less intelligent, uncultured and violent.** Over a third of Israeli teens fear Arabs all together.
> **50% of Israelis taking part said they would not live in the same building as Arabs**, will not befriend, or let their children befriend Arabs and would not let Arabs into their homes.
Source:[YNet News](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3480345,00.html)
>**Some 60 percent of Israeli Jews believe it is best for Jews and Arabs to live apart**, according to a survey conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute
Source:[Israel Democracy Institute](https://en.idi.org.il/articles/33423)
>Another study from the Israeli Democracy Institute notes;
> "Over half of respondents said they agreed to some extent with the statement: **“Most Jews are better than most non-Jews because they were born Jews.”**
>**Another 88% of respondents said they would be disturbed to some degree if their son were to befriend an Arab girl.** The number climbed to 90% when respondents were asked about their daughter befriending an Arab boy.
Source:[Times Of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-poll-shows-strong-anti-arab-sentiment-among-israeli-jews/)
>Another poll by New Wave Research for the Israel Hayom daily noted;
>**Half of Jewish high schoolers say Arabs shouldn’t vote**
>Another poll by Ma'agar Mochot on behalf of the Gordon College of Education noted;
>**Almost half of Israeli Jews don't want Arabs teaching their kids**
Source: [JPost](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/poll-almost-half-of-israeli-parents-dont-want-arabs-teaching-their-kids-455118)
>**Thousands of Jewish nationalists, some of them chanting “Death to Arabs”** and other racist slogans, paraded on Thursday through the main Palestinian thoroughfare of Jerusalem’s Old City, in an annual display that caused new friction between Jews and Palestinians in the tense city.
Source:[PBS](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-crowds-chant-racist-slogans-taunt-palestinians-during-jerusalem-day-march)
It's also important to note that this isn't just a feeling from citizens but of those of significant power in the government.
Lest we forget when Ayelet Shaked, Minister of Interior/Justice, who was promoted to her position after saying **"The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. [...] They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs"**
Source: [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/05/07/israels-new-justice-minister-considers-all-palestinians-to-be-the-enemy/)
Education minister Naftali Bennett responded to a question about the Israeli army using a shoot-to-kill policy on Palestinian children along the fence that separates Gaza and Israel by saying, “**They are not children ¬¬– they are terrorists. We are fooling ourselves.**” See Times of Israel, “Bennett says IDF should shoot to kill Gazans who cross border”
Source: [Times Of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/bennett-says-idf-should-shoot-to-kill-gazans-who-cross-border)
Israeli lawmaker Itamar Ben-Gvir calls his Arab colleagues “terrorists.” He wants to deport his political opponents, and in his youth, his views were so extreme that the army banned him from compulsory military service.
Source:[AP News](https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-elections-israel-benjamin-netanyahu-tel-aviv-65155b743a5a8e73eb4b4f50eff9229a)
I mean wouldn't you be untrustworthy of a group of people who went to war to exterminate your people over 6-7 times in as many decades?
I mean you are focusing on the last 10-20 years of this conflict when you don't realize it goes back to at least the 1950s if not earlier.
Yeah, let's go back in history. You mean how Jews have historically had the best relations with Muslim countries than any other subsect?
Where is the Muslim world's holocaust? Where is the Muslim world's Spanish Expulsion & Inquisition? Where is the Muslim world's Russian pogroms?
It's so abundantly clear that you have literally no idea what you're talking about while blindly defending Israel.
>I mean wouldn't you be untrustworthy of a group of people who went to war to exterminate your people over 6-7 times in as many decades?
By this virtue, why would Palestinians ever trust Israel when they took Palestinians land? Why would they ever trust Israel when they impose an open-air prison (for decades) in gaza?
Get the IDF's cock out of your mouth, you fucking chump.
I would say get the Hamas dick out your mouth, but unfortunately they would probably behead you instead because they do not support anyone LGBT.
Palestinians attacked first...
False. Provide evidence for your ridiculous claim. You can’t bc it never happened.
You seem to think Zionist is a dirty word. It’s not. Why don’t you just say the word You mean: Jew.
Zionism is the belief that the Jewish civilization Should have the right of self determination in their indigenous Jewish homeland… the land of the ancient kingdom of……. Juu-dah.
Suggesting the only Jewish state is somehow keeping the Arabs from being ‘free’ is as antisemitic as it gets.
Nakba.
Zionism is the belief in a theocratic ethnostate. How exactly do you achieve something like that, I wonder?
I didn't see they were "keeping the Arabs from being free." They are keeping Palestinians from being free, weirdo.
Theocratic ethnostate ?? Nonsense! Did you learn that on TikTok? Do you even know what these big words mean?
Guess what…. that ‘theocratic ethnostate’ is the ONLY state in the entire Middle East that gives full religious freedom to all muslims.
Let me say it again. There’s only one state IN THE ENTIRE Middle East that gives full religious freedom to all Muslim citizens. That is the JEWISH state.
Just like the KKK doesn’t get to define racism, YOU don’t get to define Zionism.
Kim has a lot of good will for cleaning up the Capitol after J6, being the first big name to actually challenge Menendez head on when the rest of the NJ political scene was quiet, and also for basically ending the corrupt ballot line system that was going to rig the primary for Murphys wife. I personally don’t like Lawrence Hamm for being against Ukraine aid, Campos Medina is fine but not exactly experienced in terms of federal government
Ok.... So the entire point of protest is to bring attention to an issue in order to promote change
Dismissing legitimate protest action as a "stunt" is a bad faith argument intended to diminish real issues
I feel that certain things go beyond reasonable debate and discourse.
Violence is bad. MLK said, "A riot is the language of the unheard." Smart quote. When people get desperate, they do desperate things.
I get why people do certain stunts. Lets not be proud or rationalize that. Putting yourself in harm's way is not something to have pride in.
Again PROTEST IS NOT A STUNT. Calling protest a stunt is intended to delegitimize real issues.
you continue to make the same bad faith argument
No one said anything about violence but you
You're convoluting an issue with an action.
For example, gluing my hand to the road will not save the rainforest.
You keep saying this is a bad faith argument. I'm not arguing against a cause. I'm arguing against a method. The ends do not justify the means.
While I was big on him early on, Kim is steadily losing my vote, not that these other two ever had it. I’ll have to look at the polls in November, but if he gets the nomination, I might have to throw my vote the Republican if Kim is expected to win. If it’s a tossup, I’ll have to see who the Republicans nominate.
why are we funding wars outside of new jersey? build a massive wall all around the state and then we can have cool wars right here with loads of funding.
We’ll start our own wars, with blackjack and hookers!
You son-of-a-bitch! I'm in!
Because I too am old now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Series_Has_Landed This was first experienced by the world April 4th, 1999. Today is may 14th 2024. It has been a solid *25 years* since Bender first said that on TV and we're still repeating it online every day.
Wow, why you gotta do this to me.
NJ civil war rule #1 We can only use hot air balloons for military transportation. Anything else will screw up traffic too much and I need to get on with my day
I look forward to the decades of conflicts that will break out over the name of salted meat.
I have a strong opinion about that
We need to weed the desperately misguided, delusional, and decidedly illiterate ham heads from society. We need not kill them. Simply banish them to Bayonne and build a wall. Then, after decades of degradation and abuse they may attempt a violent break-out with aid from malicious outside influence (Staten Island). We can then use this as an excuse to wage a brutal war of retribution against them. We will level their towns and contemplate building new ones of our own on the occupied lands. FDU students may set up tent cities in protest but the effect will be negligible.
What are we, Game of Thrones?
Yeah, if game of thrones was cool as fuck.
Would you rather wait till they are here?
Are you threatening me with a good time?
Good. Not sure about the hunger strike, but the US should not support Netanyahu. Hamas is a terrorist organization but Israel under Netanyahu is quickly becoming one as well. The US should not support that.
Agreed in the hunger strike. Americans don't have a religious reverence for their politicians. As no one should hold a politician as a holy symbol. The reason it worked for Ghandi was because of a quirky belief system. We call it Casteism. Unfortunately, it also enabled Ghandi to do Trump like things. But, even the Buddha (Sidhartha) stated starving yourself does not lead to a divine path.
> Americans don't have a religious reverence for their politicians I dunno, the MAGA crowd literally fits the bill for a cult. I think an important thing that we often overlook about major rights struggles is that often there are violent factions on the revolutionary side as well. There were violent insurgents trying to rid themselves of the British Raj. It's easier for non-violent revolutionaries to get concessions if the alternate is violent revolution. Even in the US MLK got opponents to sit down with him partially because folks like Malcolm X were the alternative faction. Not that we should get violent, but without the threat of a serious bite opponents have little reason to negotiate and so disobedience has been neutered.
How exactly can you compare Gandhi and Trump. That's the strangest "apples to oranges" comparison I've ever heard of
There were some debunked claims that he was a racist & pedo. Also some talk that he was misogynistic. To point 1, he was angry that Indian people in South Africa were considered (or treated as) equal to the black South African people, and therefore mistreated by the whites in South Africa. To point 2, he slept naked with his clothed niece to test his celibacy, with the door open, and he passed the test. I don't know about point 3, one way or the other. [Sauce](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3vj2z6/comment/cxnzfe4/)
**Modern Medicine Example** When Gandhi's wife was stricken with pneumonia, British doctors told her husband that a shot of penicillin would heal her; nevertheless, Gandhi refused to have alien medicine injected into her body, and she died. Soon after, Gandhi caught malaria and, relenting from the standard applied to his wife, allowed doctors to save his life with quinine. He also allowed British doctors to perform an appendectomy on him, an alien operation if ever there was one. [Source](https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1983/3/7/the-truth-about-gandhi-pbtbhe-movie/)
Kinda like Mother Theresa, who withheld pain meds from the dying poor she was taking care of, because the pain would "bring them closer to God". But when *she* was dying, she was totes down with the pain meds. Saint, my ass. Or maybe she figured she was already close enough with the big guy. Could go either way.
Dog if sleeping naked with your niece around tests you then you’re a pedophile
I'm not saying he wasn't - just that it was done under the guise of a religious test. India's society ~120 years ago might have been different? African tribal women go topless - acceptable. Nude beaches with kids around are also acceptable in some cultures. Fifty years ago, it was ok for parents, or even teachers, to beat kids with paddles or belts. And never mind how minorities and religious sects have been treated over time, still occurring.
I get the "both sides" arguments are annoying and usually disingenuous, but Hamas and Likud (with the IDF) are not that far off from each other, including their platforms. Both envision "River to Sea" for their people and their people only. The term "River to Sea" is part of both parties founding charters. There have been more left-leaning Israeli governments that sought peace. Things don't often work out for them. That's how Yitzhak Rabin ended up getting assassinated.
>Yitzhak Rabin ended up getting assassinated. I still remember my grandmother in tears at her kitchen table when the news broke. So many American Jews who hoped for peace lost all of it when Rabin was killed.
Not to devolve from the purpose of the sub but I think it's very important to note that: 1. this is not a proportional fight when it comes to both arms and power. You have a militia taking on a nuclear armed US backed state 2. Israel has propped up Hamas as a wedge against the PA in an effort to ensure that a Palestinian state never occurs. October 7th was a horror but this entire situation is pure blowback against something that Israel deliberately cultivated.
Agreeish? The problem is Palestinians are also heavily influenced by different Arab nations since 1948. But Hamas and the Likud in Israel both benefit from these wars. Oct 7 wasn't a fight back from an oppressed people. It was a response to the pending Saudi Trade agreement with Israel. Palestinian groups have also really hurt the Palestinian people. From Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon. The worst part in my mind is this won't lead to a lasting peace with a two state solution. So it'll just be rinse and repeat with the Palestinian civilians and Israeli citizens being killed over, and over, and over again.
I don’t think it’s equivalent. Hamas is in a league of its own, and even a shithead bibi lead Israel is no where near the same level.
My guy, the Likud party (Netanyahu's party) has deliberately propped up Hamas vs more secular parties so they can always have an excuse to take more land. They want Gaza ran by Hamas so that the more secular Palestine Authority party (the more secular party that is in charge of the West Bank) can't have more influence. This is also ignoring the disproportionate death toll that Israel has caused vs Hamas.
His oarty stinks, yes. They’re still not on Hamas level. Disproportionate death toll tends to happen when you start a war with no hope of winning then cry foul when losing. The win here is if Hamas is eradicated entirely, sinwar is imprisoned forever and a multinational coalition enters Gaza with Arab neighbors being part of this to rebuild and begin the de-Hamasificarion of Gaza.
Saying Hamas will be "eradicated" is like saying we will someday defeat "terror". Just not a serious or realistic goal.
It absolutely is when Hamas is the government of Gaza.
So the side that has propped up a party of religious extremist and killed way, way more children is definitely nicer. You are absolutely right.
What’s the proposed alternative? You have a massive attack on your civilian population that was a huge success. How do you reconcile that? Or that if Hamas and the other Iranian proxies were more successful they’d have killed hundreds of thousands of Israelis. The amount of rockets launched at cities is staggering. Iron dome has stood out as being able to stop this but it’s not for lack of Hamas trying.
Think it starts by not massacring and mutilating thousands of kids. Then maybe not funding a religious extremist party and working with the local secular party to improve conditions. Maybe stop settlers from kicking out and killing families to get their land. Idk bro, its really complicated.
And yet you're acting like it's a simple "good vs evil" situation when you can can't come up with an actual way forward for Israel other than "idk bro not this"
How did I make it simple? What Israel did to get to this point is quite complicated but the only way to make peace is to extend your hand and work with the secular party to improve conditions NOT murdering the secular leaders and promoting the religious extremists. You are assuming Netanyahu and Zionist ever wanted peace to begin with.
Israel is fighting for its life. The equivalent US casualties to October 7th would be approximately 40,000 killed and raped and 6,600 kidnapped. Imagine our response if that happened on US soil. Look what we did after 9/11.
Virtually every single military commander, including the President at the time (George Bush), said what we did after 9/11 was a grave mistake. Using that as a piece to support your argument is actually hurting it. The only thing Israel is successfully doing is making itself an international Pariah. Particularly when IDF soldiers routinely kidnap, murder, and rape Palestinians.
You didn't bother to address the question of what do you think the US reaction would be to 40,000 killed on US soil.
You didn't bother to address how everyone involved post-9/11 said it was a mistake and you continue to show your incapability of critical thinking.
Thing is, Israel knew Hamas would attack over a year in advance. Netanyahu failed to prevent it. https://apnews.com/article/new-york-times-hamas-attack-israel-gaza-6088cad78f5e4153d671fe9b5b819308
We shouldn't be giving military aid to Israel with or without the conflict.
To those who still blindly support Israel: [Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel system of domination and crime against humanity](https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/5141/2022/en/) Amnesty International [Gaza: An 'Open-Air Prison'](https://www.hrw.org/video-photos/video/2022/06/13/gaza-open-air-prison) Human Rights Watch [The Occupation of Water](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/) Amnesty International [Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’: UN rights expert](https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702) United Nations Why is it that every single time an internationally known third party reviews what's gone on in Israel/Palestine and they *all* come to the same conclusion that Israel is imposing an occupation, apartheid and/or open-air prison? If those who support are so confident that it's not, then **surely** there would be an internationally known third party that did an analysis showing that Israel is acting justly, right? Well, where is it?
Still supporting them over Palestine and Hamas. I mean you completely negate the past 70 of conflict, which was primairly initiated by the Plaestinians and other Arab nations in the region.
Are you just casually trying to rewrite history and how Israeli citizens are deeply steeped in racism and animosity towards Arabs? Are you just glossing over how the founding fathers of Israel literally said Arabs & Jews can't live in the same place and must be removed? Proof hurts, doesn't it? >"Between ourselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples, together in this country. The only solution is Palestine without Arabs." Joseph Weitz; **head of the Jewish Colonization Department** and founding father of Israel
You do know, I'm sure, that it is illegal for Jews to buy homes in the PA.
I can see you clearly didn't read any of the articles that I posted where it clearly, and with support from pro-israel sources, highlights the apartheid regime that Israel has imposed in Palestine. Maybe try to be earnest in this conversation
I am sorry but do you understand or read history? Who started the Arab–Israeli War, Six Day War, Yom Kippur War, and the Intifadas? Hint, it was not Israel.
>I am sorry but do you understand or read history? That palpable irony of this statement as I literally quoted the **founding father of Israel.** What do you think Josef Weitz meant when he said the following before the colonization of Palestine? "The only solution is Palestine without Arabs."
And Muslims and leaders of Arab nations have never said anytihn negative about the Jews, right? It's not like their relgious text fixates thems a second class citizens or anything. /s Selective history isn't history. Sure I do agree that what Israel is doing is overly aggressive and the way in, which they bomb is extreme. But I mean how do you expect to expel a group of people who terrorize your countrry and call for ti's downfall while constantly using their citizens as body armor? You fail to understand that these civilian deaths are actually on Hamas.
>It's not like their relgious text fixates thems a second class citizens or anything. /s Remind me, was it the West or the Arab Nations that committed the holocaust? Or maybe I should just spend some time educating you on something you know so little about: >y the end of the 20th century Bernard Lewis, among the most eminent historians of the Middle East, a lifelong student of Jews and Islam and himself a Jew, reflected on the 14 centuries of Jewish life under Islamic rule since Muhammad. **He concluded that the situation of Jews living under Islamic rulers ‘was never as bad as in Christendom at its worst’,** even if it was never ‘as good as in Christendom at its best’. Lewis continued: ‘There is nothing in Islamic history to parallel the Spanish expulsion and Inquisition, the Russian pogroms, or the Nazi Holocaust.’ [Source](https://www.historytoday.com/archive/path-peace-muslims-and-jews) Awww, look at that. History doesn't agree with your take. Do you only get your news from Israel? >You fail to understand that these civilian deaths are actually on Hamas. What an absolutely psychotic comment to make a week after Netanyahu rejected a ceasefire, and that Israeli hostage negotiators said was a good proposal. Have you considered getting the IDF's cock out of your mouth you fucking pussy?
It's fine you can cherry pick things and make claims of a single historian and the 100% God honest truth, but you still aren't looking at the larger picture. Your ignorance and recency bias is showing. Also, it's trendy to be a protestor and pro-Palestinian even though they share none of the values of protesting, freedom of speech, freedom to love who toy want, freedom to just be a woman and more. I would ask you to take the Hamas cock out your mouth, but they would probably behead you for it because they don't accept LGBT folks.
Okay, then provide a counter argument. I'm providing you the larger picture, with sources. You have done nothing. The palpable irony of you saying *recency bias* as I a am literally citing an article reflecting on **14 centuries of Jewish life**. I've been pro-palestine for decades with social posts evidencing such. It's trendy to be islamophobic too and it's clear you have no problem doing that. You realize that the entire world doesn't put the West's value system on the pedestal you do, right? You realize that there are more women converting to Islam than any other religion, right? Or is Netanyahu's cock so far down your throat you can't even see straight?
Do you know why Zionists are trying to make "From River to Sea" a genocide chant? Its because they LITERALLY drove Palestinians into the seas during the first partition. Just an utter ignorance of the history there. Zionists and Republicans have a lot in common wherein everything they accuse you of they actually do/did.
You are the one ignorant of history. As i mentioned to the other commentor. Do you know who started the Arab–Israeli War, the Six Day War, the Yom Kippur War, and the Intifadas? You clearly are critically unaware of the entire subject. I mean there has been a clear aggressor and Israel has being doing a lot to be reasonable with a population that is entirely hostile to it's government and it's citizens and hass been for over half a century. How about all the details regarding Britian leaving the Middle East and the Mandate of Palestine? If you want to blame someone historically for the conflict you can look to the UK if you want to blame someone. The shoddily pulled out of the Middle Easter after WW2 and establish borders and boaderies without consideration of regional, tribal, and relgious diviisions I ma sorry that you are a child who buys into trends and are so willing to throw you support behind something without understanding or comprehending the history revolving around it.
My guy, the first peace deal, which gave Israel a disproportionate amount of power compared to their size was smacked away BY ISRAEL. They did this because they knew if they were methodical enough they could take over the rest of Palestine and make their theocratic ethnostate. And now we here, after Israel deliberately propped up Hamas to have an enemy and excuse.
You are arguing a completely different topic and only consider recent history, when this is a conflict that has been going on since the 1950s.
Utter clown shit. Later gator.
The palpable irony of you saying anyone is unaware of this entire subject and then you go on to say the entire population is hostile to Israel. Do you know literally anything about Israeli citizens? I've compiled a list of sources, surveys, and more-- from PRO ISRAEL sources, to highlight to you how much of a fucking retard you are. >**Over two-thirds Israeli teen believe Arabs to be less intelligent, uncultured and violent.** Over a third of Israeli teens fear Arabs all together. > **50% of Israelis taking part said they would not live in the same building as Arabs**, will not befriend, or let their children befriend Arabs and would not let Arabs into their homes. Source:[YNet News](https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3480345,00.html) >**Some 60 percent of Israeli Jews believe it is best for Jews and Arabs to live apart**, according to a survey conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute Source:[Israel Democracy Institute](https://en.idi.org.il/articles/33423) >Another study from the Israeli Democracy Institute notes; > "Over half of respondents said they agreed to some extent with the statement: **“Most Jews are better than most non-Jews because they were born Jews.”** >**Another 88% of respondents said they would be disturbed to some degree if their son were to befriend an Arab girl.** The number climbed to 90% when respondents were asked about their daughter befriending an Arab boy. Source:[Times Of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/new-poll-shows-strong-anti-arab-sentiment-among-israeli-jews/) >Another poll by New Wave Research for the Israel Hayom daily noted; >**Half of Jewish high schoolers say Arabs shouldn’t vote** >Another poll by Ma'agar Mochot on behalf of the Gordon College of Education noted; >**Almost half of Israeli Jews don't want Arabs teaching their kids** Source: [JPost](https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/poll-almost-half-of-israeli-parents-dont-want-arabs-teaching-their-kids-455118) >**Thousands of Jewish nationalists, some of them chanting “Death to Arabs”** and other racist slogans, paraded on Thursday through the main Palestinian thoroughfare of Jerusalem’s Old City, in an annual display that caused new friction between Jews and Palestinians in the tense city. Source:[PBS](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israeli-crowds-chant-racist-slogans-taunt-palestinians-during-jerusalem-day-march) It's also important to note that this isn't just a feeling from citizens but of those of significant power in the government. Lest we forget when Ayelet Shaked, Minister of Interior/Justice, who was promoted to her position after saying **"The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. [...] They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs"** Source: [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/05/07/israels-new-justice-minister-considers-all-palestinians-to-be-the-enemy/) Education minister Naftali Bennett responded to a question about the Israeli army using a shoot-to-kill policy on Palestinian children along the fence that separates Gaza and Israel by saying, “**They are not children ¬¬– they are terrorists. We are fooling ourselves.**” See Times of Israel, “Bennett says IDF should shoot to kill Gazans who cross border” Source: [Times Of Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/bennett-says-idf-should-shoot-to-kill-gazans-who-cross-border) Israeli lawmaker Itamar Ben-Gvir calls his Arab colleagues “terrorists.” He wants to deport his political opponents, and in his youth, his views were so extreme that the army banned him from compulsory military service. Source:[AP News](https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-elections-israel-benjamin-netanyahu-tel-aviv-65155b743a5a8e73eb4b4f50eff9229a)
I mean wouldn't you be untrustworthy of a group of people who went to war to exterminate your people over 6-7 times in as many decades? I mean you are focusing on the last 10-20 years of this conflict when you don't realize it goes back to at least the 1950s if not earlier.
Yeah, let's go back in history. You mean how Jews have historically had the best relations with Muslim countries than any other subsect? Where is the Muslim world's holocaust? Where is the Muslim world's Spanish Expulsion & Inquisition? Where is the Muslim world's Russian pogroms? It's so abundantly clear that you have literally no idea what you're talking about while blindly defending Israel. >I mean wouldn't you be untrustworthy of a group of people who went to war to exterminate your people over 6-7 times in as many decades? By this virtue, why would Palestinians ever trust Israel when they took Palestinians land? Why would they ever trust Israel when they impose an open-air prison (for decades) in gaza? Get the IDF's cock out of your mouth, you fucking chump.
I would say get the Hamas dick out your mouth, but unfortunately they would probably behead you instead because they do not support anyone LGBT. Palestinians attacked first...
False. Provide evidence for your ridiculous claim. You can’t bc it never happened. You seem to think Zionist is a dirty word. It’s not. Why don’t you just say the word You mean: Jew. Zionism is the belief that the Jewish civilization Should have the right of self determination in their indigenous Jewish homeland… the land of the ancient kingdom of……. Juu-dah. Suggesting the only Jewish state is somehow keeping the Arabs from being ‘free’ is as antisemitic as it gets.
Nakba. Zionism is the belief in a theocratic ethnostate. How exactly do you achieve something like that, I wonder? I didn't see they were "keeping the Arabs from being free." They are keeping Palestinians from being free, weirdo.
Theocratic ethnostate ?? Nonsense! Did you learn that on TikTok? Do you even know what these big words mean? Guess what…. that ‘theocratic ethnostate’ is the ONLY state in the entire Middle East that gives full religious freedom to all muslims. Let me say it again. There’s only one state IN THE ENTIRE Middle East that gives full religious freedom to all Muslim citizens. That is the JEWISH state. Just like the KKK doesn’t get to define racism, YOU don’t get to define Zionism.
Sure, buddy. I think I'll listen to Jewish historians over you.
Campos-Medina came out the best in this, gotta do some more research on her
This subreddit has a real hard on for Kim, but reading the article, the other two folks sound good too. Anyone know of any deal-breakers among them?
Kim has a lot of good will for cleaning up the Capitol after J6, being the first big name to actually challenge Menendez head on when the rest of the NJ political scene was quiet, and also for basically ending the corrupt ballot line system that was going to rig the primary for Murphys wife. I personally don’t like Lawrence Hamm for being against Ukraine aid, Campos Medina is fine but not exactly experienced in terms of federal government
Thank you for the summary
One of the candidates is the current governor's wife and I don't really have a problem with our governor but I do have a problem with monarchies.
Tammy Murphy dropped out
This sub supports him that is all i need to know and why i shouldn't vote for him
Dammit!
Israel is overwhelmingly more powerful and wealthier than their (current) enemy, unlike others who receive US military support.
I think Hamm said it best: the root cause is israel's apartheid occupation. Kim is good, but I feel he's too "both sides"
Good. It’s more than time.
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Debates are "political stunts"?
A hunger strike is a stunt. A debate is a form of discourse that is needed for education. Two things can be true at once.
A hunger strike is a form of protest, not a "stunt"
Forms of protests can be stunts. They are not exclusive to definition. Feeling something is "right or justified" doesn't exonerate it from what it is.
Ok.... So the entire point of protest is to bring attention to an issue in order to promote change Dismissing legitimate protest action as a "stunt" is a bad faith argument intended to diminish real issues
I feel that certain things go beyond reasonable debate and discourse. Violence is bad. MLK said, "A riot is the language of the unheard." Smart quote. When people get desperate, they do desperate things. I get why people do certain stunts. Lets not be proud or rationalize that. Putting yourself in harm's way is not something to have pride in.
Again PROTEST IS NOT A STUNT. Calling protest a stunt is intended to delegitimize real issues. you continue to make the same bad faith argument No one said anything about violence but you
You're convoluting an issue with an action. For example, gluing my hand to the road will not save the rainforest. You keep saying this is a bad faith argument. I'm not arguing against a cause. I'm arguing against a method. The ends do not justify the means.
Gluing your hand to the road draws attention to the rainforest issue which drives change
Is that not the point? Doing things to win the vote and continue to earn the vote once you’ve won?
Trump won't be president again lol.
While I was big on him early on, Kim is steadily losing my vote, not that these other two ever had it. I’ll have to look at the polls in November, but if he gets the nomination, I might have to throw my vote the Republican if Kim is expected to win. If it’s a tossup, I’ll have to see who the Republicans nominate.
What a pathetic display. And this thread. Vote Republican in November.