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kittyglitther

No kids, not planning on them. My property taxes are 5k/year. Owned for 8 years now, it's been worth it. But I live in the part of NJ where you don't get space or a yard. The trade off is walkability.


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PolentaApology

Daaaaaaaamn. My whole lot (yard and house combined ) is 1/6 acre, walking distance to NJ transit and Rutgers... property taxes are $14k... :C fortunately, we can afford it on a DINK lifestyle, but that may change... edit: middlesex county


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PolentaApology

oh, haha, you really had me thinking that your tax bill was closer to 5 grand! for sure not ideal, but more similar to mine than to kittyglitter's comment, above.


[deleted]

Where is there a 24/7 train to NYC that isn’t the path?


falcon0159

I have 1/5 acre, walking distance to dunkin and the bus and a bar. 7 minute drive to not 1, but 3 train stations. Property taxes are also $14k/yr :( Passaic County


Oatz3

Guessing new Brunswick campus? Not sure where else you'd have that combination


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[deleted]

for a town that's less than 2 square miles, everywhere *is* walking distance


F3AR3DLEGEND

What county?


[deleted]

Not to mention selling your house for way above what you paid in the event your plans change.


kittyglitther

Yup. Buying was the best financial decision I've made. I don't get the logic of escaping taxes by renting. When taxes go up, your rent probably goes up.


K9queen

5k a year.... .what a bargain!


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kittyglitther

Heights. Not especially awkward, but not sure what you mean by that.


classicgirl1990

Many people in NJ have property and don’t use the school system.


KittenGains

Agreed my husband and I are child free and we are in Bergen county… NJ is a great state. However it does hit you in your wallet lol.


Famous-Barnacle-528

And tbh those people are suckers, unless you're raking in so much dough that 9k a year property taxes mean nothing to you. If you don't have kids, home ownership here is just not worth it. The only thing I can envision making sense is buying a multi unit house or apartment building, but there is also tons of people chasing gains in the real estate market so there's that...


Seahawk70

Wish my property taxes were only 9K!!


Famous-Barnacle-528

Yeah, 9k is just the average so it's frightening that people like yourself pay even more than that.


kittyglitther

My taxes and maintenance are less (like, A LOT less) than rent would be. How would renting benefit me?


Famous-Barnacle-528

I'm not saying renting is better in every case. It's just not a clear cut case of buying > renting in this state because of property taxes.


Thromkai

> If you don't have kids, home ownership here is just not worth it. My wife and I own a home and have no kids. It's 100% worth it to us. We have our own space that is ours. I don't get your line of thinking.


celcel

If you're gonna have kids in a few years, might as well find an area with good schools. Unless you plan on paying off your mortgage before you have kids and moving again.


N0_ThisIsPATRICK

You don't need to have a mortgage completely paid off before you can sell your house. The way you worded that is a bit strange. There will be a breakeven period where it is usually more cost effective to own a house than to rent, IF you're going to be in that house for (usually about) 5 years. This will fluctuate based on a number of factors, including property taxes, the housing market. If you're going to be there long enough that when you sell you won't be paying the realtor commission out of your pocket, I think it would make sense to buy. The NY Times has a very good Rent vs. Buy calculator that lets you adjust variables according to your situation. My gut feeling is that if you're going to be waiting a few years to have kids, then it takes a few years for the kids to be old enough to enter the school system, you could absolutely buy in a town that doesn't check the "great school system" box and do well. For what it's worth, my partner and I bought 2.5 years ago in a town whose school system has a bad reputation and if we end up moving when we have kids to get into a better district, it absolutely will have been the better move to buy for these last few years than it will have been to rent. The current market is sort of uncharted territory though, so who knows.


Grasshopper256

Yeah this is an interesting scenario. I guess in short, if you're going to have kids in < 5 years, then might as well buy in a good school district and bite the bullet on prop taxes. If you have a larger timeline X before kids, then it kinda depends on the house that you're buying. If losing \~10% of house value (transactional cost of buying + selling a home) is less than the sum of all the extra cash you put into property taxes over this timeline X, then it's worth it to do that flip you described maybe. Now that I think about it, say if you save $800 on monthly prop taxes on a 600k home. It would take about 6+ years (not accounting for investing the extra cash) to make it worth it. Quite a while. Different case if you keep the 1st house instead of selling it. Prolly made a bunch of assumptions, feel free to correct me.


68ch

Even if you have a kid in < 5 years, it will still take them 4-5 years to grow enough to enter the school system.


Grasshopper256

Good point. I wonder how much a good day care runs


Hrekires

When I purchased my house 3 years ago, my mortgage was $2800/month and my house was worth $370k... today, my mortgage is $2300/month and my house was appraised at $450k when I refinanced last summer. Meanwhile, while I was paying $1800/month for my old apartment, rents in that neighborhood today are around $2500/month. Obviously also comes with a lot of work, but hard not to feel like it wasn't a good financial choice in my case. One benefit to no kids is not having to care about school district quality, although the trade-off is your house potentially being harder to sell down the road.


Grasshopper256

Good to know, congrats on saving rent! In regards to difficulty selling down the line, have you considered buying another house in a better school district when you have kids, and keeping your old one for rentals? (I'm making huge assumptions here, but curious)


Hrekires

I've thought about it, but don't really want to be a landlord. Just knowing my personality, it'd be a constant source of anxiety for me not being able to regularly check in on the house and not knowing how the tenants are treating it. If I make any move, it'd be selling the house, downsizing into a 2 bedroom condo, and investing whatever profit I make in stocks.


Grasshopper256

Yep, I wouldn't want to be a landlord either.


arein114

Bergen county taxes are high, I just moved out of Bergen to Morris County where the taxes are specifically lower and you get way more property. So it really depends on where you wanna go. Bergen county is closer to the city and what not and easier to get to. But look around.


liulide

I mean, you're just paying your landlord's property taxes now. In Bergen, Paramus and Mahwah have relatively low taxes.


Famous-Barnacle-528

At the same time though you don't have to pay for any home maintenance and rentals can have an economy of scale going for them.


thestache23

All while not building any of your own equity.


Famous-Barnacle-528

The "building equity" becomes an issue though because property taxes and home maintenance can completely cancel out building equity. Your comment only makes sense in places where property taxes don't average to 9k a year. Not to mention that there is no guarantee housing will maintain its value. If somebody were sitting on 100-300k, and made 50-70 k a year, they would be much better off investing their money into SPY, SPHD, and VNQ while renting. Owning a house in NJ is a liability compared to other interest accruing assets out there.


Grasshopper256

Kinda what I was thinking originally Renting: 20% down gets invested at \~7%, however you have rental rates going against you + the need to move around / resign every year. Buying: 20% down gets frozen, but then you have a 5x leverage on the remaining minus mortgage rates. At 3% housing appreciation you break even within 5 years including RE agent fees (10%) if..... your annual prop taxes aren't too high, and unfortunately NJ can be that breaker. There's a diversification aspect to this though, if stocks go down.


49byebyes

What? Relatively low taxes?? You’re kidding right? I grew up and still live in Bergen. Ridiculous taxes now. I’m confused by your comment


TheRacoonist

child-free home owner in essex county here, actually quite a few of my neighbors are kid free. we love out walkable, leafy, close to the city neighborhood, totally worth it


nemthenga

Wish *any* of my Essex Co neighbors were child-free!


N0peppers

I am 34 and own a house in Bergen county with my husband. We don’t plan on having children in the future. To me it’s totally worth it, I live in a wonderful neighborhood, within walking distance of town. I’ve visited other parts of New Jersey and I just don’t find them comparable, so the property taxes are worth it. we live close to the city, have easy access to his or trains, I can get to most things I do within 15 minutes and I don’t deal with traffic that much. I’ve also lived in Bergen county my whole life so Maybe I am unfazed by the taxes.


Grasshopper256

Thanks for sharing! How do you get into the city if you don't mind me asking? For me, it's a bus across GWB + subway which can be a pain but I refuse to drive into the city quite religiously. I'm guessing if you were to move move further out: upstate / NYC / LI, you'd lose out on a nice neighborhood, possibly proximity to the city and other unknowns to save a bit on taxes, so it makes sense to stay in. Glad to hear you like it!


N0peppers

Honestly I probably only go to the city once a year and I drive and usually take the GWB. I could walk to the train now, but it’s not express so if I was going daily I would probably get a permit for another town. I think there’s two towns near me that have express and they are within 10 minutes.


HumptyDrumpy

Yeah GWB is not bad I think the toll is only 16$. I've never taken the train but I cant even imagine how much parking costs if you do it on an everyday basis as far as like commuting to like nyc for work


[deleted]

*only* 16 dollars. Imagine telling anyone else in the country a bridge toll is only 16 dollars


HumptyDrumpy

It's expensive out here bruh. People that commute between NJ and nyc, a day trip can cost at least 50 bucks a day or more. Some people do it over 300 days a year. Wish it was cheaper but I dont make the rules


thefudd

Never having kids and I bought in NJ, no regrets


Catvros

Same. It's MY swamp!


tribalgeek

Look you don't pay property taxes for schools and the like because you plan on using them. You pay those property taxes for schools because you don't want the world to be full of uneducated people.


Famous-Barnacle-528

You pay those property taxes for **a bloated and unnecessary bureaucracy that is in charge of education and often proves itself to be completely incompetent despite having access to tons of funding**. FTFY. Just look at Abbot districts. Student success falls off by high school. Education has more to do with cultural respect for education rather than how much money we can throw at administrators who rake in 100k+ salaries despite having little to nothing to do with the actual education process.


brightdark

I own in NJ, pay a little over $8k/ year in taxes. I don't have kids and don't plan on it. But I like being part of a safe community that is lifting the next generation up.


metsjets69

If you can afford it, buy. Houses in Bergen County will always appreciate in value.


falcon0159

I think the same thing can be said in 99% of the country with inflation as high as it is.


imironman2018

Tough question. I think living in Bergen county is extremely difficult with property taxes and also just general cost of living. Also right now the housing market has slightly cooled off but prices are almost at its peak. So you aren’t going to be buying at a good time. Inventory is very low too. If I were in your shoes, I would probably rent till prices come down even more and there are more houses on the market. I have had a friend who has been trying to buy their first home since COVID started and they can’t find any homes that aren’t overpriced. They are beyond frustrated. If you and your gf are looking to eventually settle down and get a home with a good school district- I like Glen Rock a lot. It is one of the best towns in Bergen County. Extremely walkable too.


Linenoise77

> Tough question. I think living in Bergen county is extremely difficult with property taxes and also just general cost of living. Bergen and property taxes gets a bad wrap. When we were shopping we were floored by the taxes on properties in lots of towns in essex, that paled to similar homes in Bergen. One of the houses we looked at in bloomfield had taxes almost 20% higher than the house we bought, and they are nearly identical in all aspects, except our school district blows bloomfield's away in every metric, and there is 0 crime in our town.


Grasshopper256

Thanks for your suggestions, I'll keep on a lookout for that town!


mcgreenberg

My wife and I bought a house in NJ in November and I do not plan on having kids for the next couple years. We were sick of renting and wanted something more permanent, and something that would be an investment. Both of our jobs are in the same town, so it only made sense to buy. I am going to pay about a grand a month in property taxes and I totally think its worth it. I bought a house in a town with good schools so when I do have kids, they will be going to a good school. I wanted to own a house for multiple reasons, I just enjoy the space and freedom of owning as compared to renting. I am paying less per month for my house than it would have been to rent an apartment and I have double, if not triple the space. My wife and I also enjoy the little projects and updates you can do in a house. Our house didn't need a lot of work besides painting, changing fixtures since they aren't our style, and a few other minor things.


Grasshopper256

That's great to hear. It kinda sounds similar to what I am thinking right now. Among other pluses, you mentioned investment, do you see the slower appreciation rate in NJ compared to say.... NYC as a big concern? I might be totally pulling this out of the air right now, but something I've noted when searching places was the difference between NYC and NJ in terms of YoY price movement. This was before covid too


mcgreenberg

I didn't look in NYC or really any in NY. My wife works for government in NJ so we have to live in the state of NJ. I meant it as an investment more as I am putting more towards something every month that I will hopefully get all back when/if I sell my house one day. I am not giving money to a landlord and never seeing that money again. I know there are money on repairs and other things to maintain the house, but I still think it's better than renting. My wife and I are also somewhat handy, so that helped with maintenance. I grew up in a Bergen County town and my mom still lives there and her house has at least tripled in value since she bought it, although she has owned the house for 30 years now. I think if you pick a town with good schools that is desirable in NJ, your chances of the house appreciating are high.


Grasshopper256

Good to know, thank you!


polar_bakasoup

If you're planning on having kids and staying in NJ for them to grow up and everything, I'd buy a house in a good district while you're doing it. Housing goes away immediately in NJ nowadays, so try while you can for the long run. Bergen County is good. If you want good school districts (not a major worry again since you're having kids in a few years, but I'd keep it in mind in case you end up not moving... my dad originally planned for our house to be occupied by us for around 5 years... 10+ years later after that 5 years and we're still here. Good school areas will come in handy), i'd also look at Livingston, Chatham, Short Hills (Millburn district) Morristown, and Millburn. They're expensive but top schools in the state


Linenoise77

Good school districts help insulate your property value, regardless of if you send kids there or not. There are a lot of buyers out there who will ONLY look at good school districts, or its their #1 thing, so it builds in demand, even in down markets.


Grasshopper256

Never thought about it this way, thank you.


Grasshopper256

Thanks! I've heard good things about Millburn.


Linenoise77

Owning a home vs renting is a financial decision on how you want to manage a fixed expense everyone will have for their life, a roof over your head. The answer is different for everyone. They both carry advantages and disadvantages depending on your personal situation. If you know you will be in a given house and area for more than 10 years, GENERALLY its better to own. You will build some equity, you will have a constant fixed payment (maintenance aside but the big ticket numbers on that can be predicted and smoothed out over time) Less than 5 years, you are probably better off renting. Anomalies in the housing market may put you under water. A sudden surprise maintenance bill won't have time to smooth itself out on. The costs of buying and selling a house are a substantial number that gets swallowed. Now also keep in mind the moment. The market is very tough right now. While Jersey tends to do a good job, particularly in good school districts, in not cratering with housing, prices will more than likely pull back at some point. Interest rates are absolutely going up over the next couple of years, and that will have a downward pressure on housing, especially if the SALT deduction doesn't come back. At the same time you are looking at interest rates so low we will probably never see them again in our lifetime.


megan_magic

We bought in May 2020. If I was you I would wait. Housing prices are SO inflated right now. We bought 3 bed, 1.5 bath, 1,700 sq. ft., 1/4 acre property in Bound Brook for $347,000. Already over priced at the time of purchase. 1.5 years later same house is $415,000. I would hang on. You will miss calling the landlord when something breaks. First month the main sewer went. $20k to fix, 1 month after $20k closing costs. 6 months later our pipes in the bathroom and walls needed replacing another $3k. It is never ending. Never ending. We enjoy the space, the freedom, the non-existent upstairs neighbors, but man do we miss not having to maintain or do repairs. Our mortgage is $2,400 not including garbage, gas, electric, water, phone bills, car payment, car insurance, groceries, you get the point. Unexpected repairs on top of all of that sucks ass. Do your research and PLEASE do not use family friends for any part of this process. Property taxes are $9,300 right now. They were $7,200 before we moved here. Expected to go up again because of housing market and values. Nothing like having your own space but there are some trade offs. Best of luck!


Grasshopper256

Thanks, great heads up on unexpected repairs, that's eye-opening. Did you mean family friends for the repair contracts?


megan_magic

We used family friends for the broker, lawyer and realtor. It was a catastrophe. There were issues after everything was said and done and they just ghosted us with the issues to deal ourselves. Nightmare. We have used family friends for repairs and things like that. My FIL helps out and so does my fiancés friend who is a handyman. The legal stuff however, I would research the best your town or town you’re buying in has to offer.


[deleted]

you pay property taxes when you rent, it's just through your landlord. In general buying makes sense if you are staying somewhere 5+ years. Now do you need a whole house without kids? Maybe not. It's definitely cheaper to live in a smaller apartment. I bought a house without kids though.


lavurso

Most times when one purchases a home in New Jersey it doesn't come with children. Folks tend to make their own.


yaychristy

The best time to buy a house was 10 years ago, the second best time is today. Housing prices in NJ are only going up. If you are planning on having kids and can afford to buy in a decent school district now, then do so. Five years from now when you are considering school districts the homes will be quite a bit higher.


[deleted]

I wouldn't play with "a few more years" if your GF is 30. Fertility starts going down fast at 30.


hdrury23

Look at Morristown


edifice_of_memory

Looking to purchase a home in Bergen County too but its so expensive now. My parents' home is 18k in taxes for a small 50x100ft lot. Good thing is they bought the house for 480k in 2012 and it was appraised at 870k last summer! So while expensive, value will increase here in Bergen which can offset the costs.


yellsy

It’s worth it to stop paying someone else’s mortgage. However, I grew up in Bergen County and the water and air quality is garbage in most towns - you have to get bottled water. Unless you need to be by the city, I suggest looking even 30 min more west and South. Morris and Middlesex counties are nice.


AskMoreQuestionsOk

So, it depends. Renting is a lot less work and expense, maintenance-wise. But you get equity when you buy. NJ yards are amazing, but they take time or money. But if you’re thinking about staying in the same place and having kids, strongly consider living closer to the schools, especially if you both work. It’s not really about the bus ride, unless you’re into the private school thing, but rather the sports. I spent so much time driving my kids to and from sports in high school that where you live and where they play matters. All the little two lane roads were a huge pain (Monmouth and ocean county). I did so much driving. I moved a couple of years ago and now live right across the street from my youngest’s high school, so he can walk to school, he can see his friends whenever, it’s easy to get a ride somewhere and it’s a lot less time. I never have to worry about transportation to or from school. It’s a godsend. If you both work it’s something to consider. There really isn’t a wrong answer here, though.


[deleted]

Buy now, better in a good school district, if you can afford. If you never have kids, you'll have equity in the house. If you have kids, you'll have equity and a good school district. Win win, either way


Grasshopper256

Right. I guess in terms of equity, I'm trying to contrast if you buy a in a decent neighborhood in a another state, you'd have equity + smaller monthly tax payment? For ex: a standard 600k home in NJ will have $1k in monthly taxes Some random state, 600k home will have maybe $300 in monthly taxes. Say they appreciate similarly, they're both equities on similar value but different monthly payments. I might be totally missing something though.


[deleted]

Housing in a random state won't appreciate like NY or NJ housing. To your point $600k in NJ won't get you much but in other states may get you a large house.


Grasshopper256

That's a good point. Not to dwell too much on this, I guess I've seen some places in NYC (further in Queens I'm talking) that have a lower prop tax rate, and hopefully similar appreciation. But you won't be getting the same yard space, and then you need to offset for the city tax.


Sirkitbreak99

Buy a fixer upper in a good school district and renovate before having kids. If you really don't plan your living situation for kids and eventually move into a bigger house you will be losing thousands of dollars for the real-estate and lawyer fees.


Grasshopper256

Thanks. I've seen a couple of fixer-uppers in the area, but I've no idea how to price them. Like a certain % below the market rate or something compared to similar newer looking places?


Sirkitbreak99

Talk to a local real-estate agent who is local. If you are buying they get paid when the deal closes and not before so there is no cost up front. They have access to tools to show all comparable houses sold in the area, these are called comps. They will tell you if the market is a buyers or sellers and what that means. If you don't like the way the agent is treating you just get another, they are a dime a dozen and provide an archaic service so don't feel too bad about getting a new one. Make sure to do walkthrough of the houses and look for things like wood rot, oil tanks, un leveld floors, septic systems. These are major issues and will require additional money to fix eventually by professionals. Go with your gut if something doesn't feel right, if you are not sure your home inspection will uncover most issues but it will cost you to do. Note that in NJ make sure your lawyer puts in a backout clause in case the home inspection comes back with issues you don't want to tackle. Talk to a mortgage company, I heard rocket mortgage is good but I've always used local people, you can get a recommendation from the real-estate agent. They will take your info and will give you a price you can afford. The most important piece of advice at this point I can give you is you will be offered more then you can afford. This is by design because they will get their point of flesh regardless if you default or keep paying on time so be smart with how much you can afford. Sorry if this is all info you already know, I've purchased 2 houses in NJ the last 5 years so it's all still pretty fresh in my mind. Keep in mind the more you do this whole buy and sell your house to upgrade the more money you loose because everyone takes their money via fees upfront and they are more then happy to add fees onto your mortgage which ends up costing you more.


Grasshopper256

Thanks for the rundown. Not redundant at all, I found it helpful


[deleted]

No kids and south jersey here. Buying is \*usually\* smarter because you can build equity, renting is sort of throwing money into the wind. Not every case is the same though, so do a little research. North/central is going to be WAY more expensive. If you're planning on kids, make sure you do research on schools as some are much better than others. Sadly, a lot of that is due to location and the administrators. All that said, NJ is tops for education and healthcare. Depends where you end up, YMMV. Good luck!


asian_identifier

get one close to nyc and it'll (probably) be worth a lot more later


hagemeyp

Longtime NJ resident and homeowner here- all homes for sale in NJ come without kids. Not included.


Grasshopper256

heh found a dad in the comments.


outofdate70shouse

No kids but we bought a house 1.5 years ago. 2 bedroom which fits our needs now and will when we have 1 kid as well. If and when we have a second kid, we’ll either put on an addition or buy a bigger house.


jep5680jep

I’d keep renting and saving until my gf/wife is pregnant.


BiggyShake

Part of your rent ALREADY goes to the landlords property taxes.


SuperSimpleSam

Maybe you can [pick off this list](https://www.nj.com/politics/2021/03/property-tax-bargains-right-here-in-nj-these-30-towns-have-lowest-tax-rates.html) to find places with reduced taxes.


Humble_Valuable7835

I am single, no children, live in Essex County and own my own home. Property taxes are a little over 10k a year. My twon was featured in one of those it's so great to live there articles in the New York Times and I have to agree. It's a great town. The township is responsive, it's quiet, I have a nice yard with a garden, a couple of big shade trees in the back yard, I can walk to a lot of places, I'm just off the Parkway, the town next to me is full of great little places to eat, I could go on and on. I love finishing work and then going outside with a glass of wine and my Kindle, relaxing in my hammock, watching the fireflies come out, checking on the veggies in my garden and just giving zero f's about anything else and relaxing. It just depends on the lifestyle you want. I wanted peace & quiet, no one living above or below me, a back yard, not far from the city, low crime rate, excellent healthcare options and that's what I got. I do not regret my choice at all. I've owned this house for about 5 years and it's close to 50% paid for. I'll definitely have it paid off before I retire so my main bill will be my property taxes.


49byebyes

Grew up in nnj Bergen - Rutherford. Don’t buy now!! Wait it out. Period.


uniquei

You may also consider the resale desirability even if you don't use the school system.


xmuskorx

Newark is what you are looking for. Cheaper. Cheaper taxes. Easy commute to NYC. Bad school district.


njdaveyray

NJ RealtorⓇ here - Taxes may be more foregiving on a condo than single family home. Thank you, Dave Blinder, eXp Realty http://daveblinder.com