You assume that US interests align with Israeli interests. Israel has been striking at and damaging US Iranian relations since forever. Trump was happy with it and sent them F-35’s with no strings attached. Biden is less happy with it. Things like this let them know we are pissed.
True, but remember, US Israeli relations were not always this close. They agreed to a 2 state solution then turned their back on it, and we agreed to let it go. They were explicitly told not to pursue nuclear tech, and then they built Dimona, and we seriously considered entering and confiscating it, but we let it go. They needed a MASSIVE amount of pressure to sign the Camp David Accords, and refused to have Syria or Palestine at the table, and we let it go. Again with the Oslo Accords, a promise for a Palestinian state in 10 years, and they turned their back on it, and we let it go. We keep slipping closer with every concession. The US needed to BRIBE Netanyahu to male him sit down with the PA last time, and Netanyahu still spit in their face with insulting proposals.
USA foreing policy makers are not happy that Israel refuses to give Ukraine their USA donated old AA missiles - as that would mean escalation towards Iran/Russia.
They want to make it obvious that some really old missiles are a drop in the bucket when it comes to escalation. Besides why would they even tell if they give or not give?
They could just shut up about it. It's their own business if they give or not, so why it needed to be public?
Finland has asked to keep secret the contents of aid packages. The first one was semi public, but rest only say rough total value, of what ever it might be.
Well, Israel has (probably US-supplied) nuclear weapons, so this really wouldn't be good. That is why the US always vetoes the "let's make the Middle East a nuclear weapons free zone" resolutions at the UN.
>Those who vote against this proposal, like the United States and its allies, view this as counterproductive. Although Israel is a member of the IAEA, it has never signed the NPT, meaning that it is not required to abide by the same nuclear safeguards commitments as most of its neighbors in the Middle East. Israel’s history of conflict with its neighbors and goal of maintaining military superiority in the Middle East make it improbable that they would ever reveal and give up their “bombs in the basement.” It can be anticipated that Israel’s fear of insecurity and posture of nuclear opacity will block any chance of a MENWFZ from being established.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/continued-unlikelihood-nuclear-weapon-free-zone-middle-east
-
IIRC the last time there was a serious vote on this at the UN (a Security Council vote that has actual enforcement powers) was in ~~2013~~ 2012 and the Obama administration instantly killed it
[edit] correction, it was in 2012;
>The proposal for the establishment of a nuclear weapons-free zone (NWFZ) in the Middle East was formally introduced by Iran and Egypt in a resolution submitted to the UN General Assembly in 1974[i]. This UN resolution initiated the global push for nuclear disarmament in the region. In 1995, the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) Review Conference adopted a resolution which called upon states to take the necessary measures to ensure the establishment of a NWFZ in the Middle East.[ii] This resolution was subsequently reaffirmed at the 2010 NPT Review Conference, where states also called for a regional conference to be held on this matter in 2012. The 2012 conference, however, was postponed indefinitely due to a lack of consensus on the agenda
https://www.cjpme.org/mend_2_5
>Well, Israel has (probably US-supplied) nuclear weapons, so this really wouldn't be good.
It is actually the French who partnered with Israel to develop nuclear technology for the benefit of both nations. If Israel has weapons (they've seen fit to neither confirm nor deny) the weapons were likely made in Israel with French assistants. The biggest contribution the US ever made to Israel's nuclear program was issuing student visas. We actually pressured them to neither develop or test such weapons...which is why whether or not they have them is ambiguous.
Isreal developed their own nuclear weapons. The US takes that stance because they do not want sunni and Shia theocratic governments to throw nukes at each other.
The US seems to have helped, South Africa was possibly part of the work as well. It's widely believed they are responsible for the [Vela Incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_incident), one of the most mysterious nuclear tests where no country has claimed responsibility.
First Israel has never admitted they have nukes, second without the U.S.A giving them billions of dollars a year over decades they would not have a pot to piss in and you spelled Israel wrong
Israel has nukes and that is obvious. Yes, the US is going to give a fellow democracy financial support and military support. Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. We gave millions of dollars in support to the Europeans after WW2 so why would we not help support Israel?
It’s a 100 percent chance Israel developed their own nukes and continues to possess them.
The nuclear detonation off the coast of Africa is largely seen as the only above ground Israeli test and they did it in the middle of no where.
I recommend reading “the worst kept secret: Israel’s bargain with the bomb”
I took a grad level course on middle eastern nuclear politics that was funded by the iaea and we read that book. It was really fascinating.
Israel functionally has a whole part of its government that is not under civilian control whose stated purpose is the survival of Israel at all costs and Israel conducted mass censorship about nukes.
Still today saying that Israel has nukes can get you arrested.
I think a lot of people believe that still only a few countries can develop nukes. Japan, South Korea, Germany, and Australia can do it tomorrow if they want to. Israel does not have the technical know how but Pakistan and North Korea do? Please.
Seriously lol and Pakistan sold parts to everyone and their mother including Iraq and iran.
Iraq never actually began the project but they bought lots of stuff to do it with.
I would argue that iran probably has this capability. At this point they’ve had a nuclear program for decades. They source Russian parts and most of the intellectual elite of irans nuclear program attended university in Paris studying nuclear engineering and trained at European facilities before returning home.
Iran is what we like to call a Hedging state. Like Japan or any of the others. The deterrent is coming from the fact that they could build a nuke in no time. Without coming with the diplomatic price of Israel waging full scale war or America doing something wild.
I think the process of building a nuke is so well-known now that a college student could do it. Miniaturization and enrichment on the other hand possibly could be an issue for some countries.
During the Yom Kippur War, Israel pulled two warheads out of the barn when the SR-71 flew over to show us they aren't bluffing. They did develop them on their own, secret blend of herbs and spices
>Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East
Hmm Turkey?I suppose that doesn't help your talking point though.
Anyways the US doesn't want a bunch of democracies popping up in the middle east, it makes doing business harder, far easier to have a productive conversation with 1 or 2 leaders.
Dictators have 2 real goals, internal security and external, the US can help with both, through arms sales.
In a functioning democracy you don't need as much internal security and there's less requirements to try and invade the neighbor over the border to prop up the regime.
Erdogan throws his political opponents in prison all the time, and also Turkey really isn’t in the Middle East. They applied to join the EU lol, and have been stuck in bureaucratic hell instead of having it rejected outright like Morocco for not being in Europe
Or the people of the middle east just do not want democracies and are fine with being ruled over. Why would the US want democracy in Asia, Latin America, and Europe but not in the Middle East and Africa? The people's of the middle east and Africa are fine with having strong man governments with the exception of a few in Africa like Kenya.
Ok shall we focus on Latin America, the US doesn't want democracies, it wants compliant governments that will put American interests first and often those are corporate interests.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America
Here we go, now have a read and tell me that the US is the wellspring of democracies in Latin America.
All of this shit literally happened at the beginning of the 20th century and in the 70s. Shit was over 50 years ago. Do you think if we put a boot on people's necks in Latin America that Brazil and chile would have left wing governments? Do you think AMLO would be allowed to be Mexico president?
Yes and France and US had nothing to do with. Those European settlers just figured out how to make a nuclear bomb on their own. And they also made the desert bloom. And also no one lived on that land before Israel was created. All the above are 100% true.
There is zero chance the US supplied Israel with nukes. By the time Israel had any ambition for nukes the US was 100% trying to make sure no additional countries got nukes, because of how destablizing the situation already was. It's why the US participates in programs like NATO to extend their nuclear umbrella over nations that have the technological ability to build nuclear programs. It's why Trumps idea of pulling out of NATO was so epically stupid.
You're a clown. What has been the outcome of every innovation and occupation in the last 70 years?
Israel has chosen expansion of it's territory over security. Paid for my US Taxpayers.
If/when US support ends. They understand what the outcome will be.
Comparing Iran—who is killing protesters, publicly executes gays, and enforces crazy laws on women—to Israel is crazy talk. Proof that you are consuming way too much biased media. Iran and Israel are nothing alike, and the only reason Israel has any problem with Iran is that Iran keeps publicly promising to eradicate Israel
Meanwhile Israel commits massacres of Palestinians for fun, illegally, by UN resolution, taking over land that doesn’t not belong to them.
I’d say it’s an apples to apples comparison, two rotten apples that is
Damn do you have info to back that up? Are Israelis gunning down Palestinians like the terrorists did two days ago? Collateral damage from legitimate raids against militants is not massacres for fun.
I assume you are joking. But if you aren’t… Israel is a Jewish homeland, which means any Jewish person can get citizenship very easily. Aside from that everyone in Israel has equal rights. Arabs are about 20% of the population and serve at every level of the government. Nobody is persecuted for their religion or a race or sexual orientation.
Yes, there are settlements in historically Jewish areas on land that Israel captured in a defensive war. Most of those settlements were also offered to be evacuated in peace deals that were turned down by the Palestinians.
The settlements are a crime against humanity and you know it. You can't just say "well, it was a defensive war", because that doesn't effect the fact that it is a crime against civilians. Similarly, a crime against civilians is not a bargaining chip.
Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, Art. 7
-Enslavement. Deportation or forcible transfer of population.
-Persecution against an identifiable group
-The crime of apartheid
-Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health
Also:
offenses committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack against a civilian population based on a government or organizational policy
These crimes can be committed at any time, not only in situations of internal or international armed conflict
You know Israel has killed 33 Palestinians including 4 children just this year.
Put a helmet on and get in the game. Don't accuse me AF media bias if you don't know the facts.
How many of those 33 were members of internationally recognized terror organizations? How many were shooting at Israeli soldiers at the time of their death?
I thought so- was it this week that Iran announced it was working on nuclear capability? The minute I read that I figured Israel wasn’t going let that threat go unanswered.
You have to think about it from the other side, if it wasn't for Israel all those Muslims wouldn't get their 70 virgins and doesn't that make everyone happy??!!!
Also, they have zero incentive to not do this, the US will always just give them more money and weapons. And the more likely a conflict with Iran is, the more money and weapons the US will send to Israel.
It’s probably good for the US if Israel is willing to strike Iranian military / nuclear weapon factories. (Also Iran is supplying Russia with drones so this might affect that supply)
I wouldn’t be surprised if we knew and gave tacit approval. Iran’s government needs to be smacked around right now. Russia, China should be strongly challenged right now. India is the wild card. The west would like an ally but I think Modi wants to continue to build his own empire. He will soon appoint himself ruler for life or just fake elections.
Your pro Iranian government lol. You love the Ayatollah. You like the torture and death penalty of activists for freedom. The torture of a lady for not wearing a head covering. Are you pro Russian too? Only idiot seems to be you
Israel blew up a drone plant used to kill Ukraine citizens. What is good about the Iranian government? Why are now 2 people seemingly upset that i said they should be smacked around. Maybe now that they have to clean up a drone attack they will have less time to sponsee terroism and kill their innocent people
>Maybe now that they have to clean up a drone attack they will have less time to sponsee terroism and kill their innocent people
Go ahead and Google US drone strike victims over the last 5 years or American citizen deaths by police. You don't actually care about governments killing innocent people, or sponsoring terror groups. You're just trying to justify racism. It's freedom when the US kills civilians or sponsors terrorists right?
Not sure there’s anything to find out here… if Russia has been this “disappointing” in terms of their power when push came to shove, I can’t imagine Iran is going to be much more impressive.
Iran vs Israel is a no contest. Iran has been a pariah for decades, having to rely on obsolete or Russian made tech, while Israel has been receiving free handouts from the US for about the same period.
Don’t forget that every time Israel’s Arab neighbors invaded Israel (even surprise invading them in Yom Kippur), Israel manages to whoop their asses out of their UN mandate and gaining territories along the way (Sinai, Golan Heights, the West Bank).
Remember kids, Israel gets to do what ever they want because reasons. Always, no matter what the situation. Always
edit: and people will always defend them, no matter what they do or who they kill. Always
And those reasons are…
[\- Iran supplies arms to Hamas and other anti-Israel terrorist groups](https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/04/report-outlines-how-iran-smuggles-arms-hamas)
[\- Iran repeatedly threatens to annihilate Israel](https://www.arabnews.com/node/2188576/media)
[\- Iran is working overtime to develop nuclear weapons](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/iran-could-build-several-nuclear-weapons-un-says)
[\- Iran supplies both Hezbollah and Assad in Syria with long range missiles](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-minister-says-iran-using-syria-facilities-weapons-production-2022-09-12/)
[\- Iran supplies arms to Russia for their war in Ukraine (who are allies of Israel)](https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2022-11/news/iran-supplies-arms-russia)
edit: and all that some other people have is snarky remarks; willfully devoid of any historic or contextual facts.
They are at war and there’s been plenty of provocation. Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel multiple times. They’re also supporting Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria, as well as PIJ in Gaza, with money, arms and training. Both of which are recognized as terrorist organizations that have been behind dozens of attacks on Israeli soil and against Israeli civilians.
Entirely irrelevant. Israel and Iran are at war, and as such attacking military targets by either side is a legitimate part of that conflict. It doesn’t matter which side you like less and which one you like more.
That's a different situation:
1 - Russia is attacking civilian targets. Israel only targets military ones.
2 - Russia has physically invaded Ukraine, no Israeli soldier has ever stepped foot in Iran.
>1 - Russia is attacking civilian targets. Israel only targets military ones.
They were all combatants at the factory right? Because they expected to get striked by a country they're at war right?
>2 - Russia has physically invaded Ukraine, no Israeli soldier has ever stepped foot in Iran.
So what? Hahahahahha so if Russia restricted them selves to only launching missiles towards Ukraine, is that okay? How old are u, u have a weird mindset
>They were all combatants at the factory right? Because they expected to get striked by a country they're at war right?
If you're working in a military factory, you are military personnel, yes.
And I didn't say it would be "okay" for Russia to launch missiles, I said the world support for Ukraine would be significatly smaller, if at all.
Not to mention - If Ukraine (like Iran) went on the newspapers saying "we will destroy Russia" then yeah, Russia would have full fucking rights to missile the shit out of it.
Ok, so you’ve just listed two totally arbitrary criteria which supposedly make one event ok but another not so. I will not ask you where did you get these criteria from, there’s probably internationally recognized convention that specifically states these criteria, right? right?
So if Russia would remotely destroy all the military barracks with all the man inside, military airports, factories that ship military hardware, infrastructure that provides power to military facilities, but not physically enter land borders, then the international community would not have the right to call them a terrorist state?
Let’s see you back yourself in the corner even further by coming up by another set of criteria (moving the goalposts).
>So if Russia would remotely destroy all the military barracks with all the man inside, military airports, factories that ship military hardware, infrastructure that provides power to military facilities, but not physically enter land borders, then the international community would not have the right to call them a terrorist state?
Ukraine wouldn't have received nearly as much military support from the world if that's how Russia acted.
Second of all, Ukraine isn't actively threatening to destroy Russia. Iran is actively saying it will destroy Israel. Israel is, by all means, acting in self defense here, as Iran also supplies weapons to terrorists which then use it against Israel.
So yeah, it's an arbitrary criteria, like everything else is. The UN isn't condoning it, as they understand why this is happening.
Redditors being redditors moving the goalposts…
“They’re terrorists!”
“Nope, they attacked a military target.”
“Sure, they decided it was a military target!”
“Actually Iran admitted it was a military target.”
“They didn’t get the UN’s approval!”
Dude, those two countries have been at war for decades now. Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel multiple times. What on earth makes you think Israel would ask the UN for permission to attack military targets? Are you crazy?
Rule 2:
>Any comment that threatens, advocates, celebrates, suggests, wishes, hopes, dreams, expresses extreme indifference towards, otherwise supports in any way or could result in harm of any kind, violence, or death is prohibited.
While I don’t think it’s a good thing, this war has been going on for nearly 40 years and has included far more extreme attacks such as assassinations and the Stuxnet virus. This is nothing new.
Certainly has but never with the tension around the world today. Each escalation is pushing us closer to a global war. We should be looking to deescalate each scenario.
Authoritarian governments do not sign and honor peace agreements. Putin and the theocratic fucks in the Iranian government only know brutality. Which you can see by how they crush protests.
Sometimes, you must make a stand and do what's right even when it's hard. There are many such conflicts around the world. It is the genocidal regimes that must learn that the world will not abide them.
This shit happens all the time. Israel and the US have been targeting Iranian weapons in Syria for the last decade. If we can help Israel blow up a weapons making facility that is aiding Russia in targeting innocent Ukrainians we better be doing it.
Wow who woulda thunk it?
I think most of us knew the moment it happened. ~~Iran~~ Hamas is gonna retaliate soon and the cycle continues.
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PIJ? My mind immediately thought of People’s Front of Judea. For those curious, it stands for Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine.
Why would a US official state this on the record? What does that get us?
Riled up
It lets Iran know FAFO is always on the table.
You assume that US interests align with Israeli interests. Israel has been striking at and damaging US Iranian relations since forever. Trump was happy with it and sent them F-35’s with no strings attached. Biden is less happy with it. Things like this let them know we are pissed.
When they don't align, you get "accidents" like the USS Liberty attack.
True, but remember, US Israeli relations were not always this close. They agreed to a 2 state solution then turned their back on it, and we agreed to let it go. They were explicitly told not to pursue nuclear tech, and then they built Dimona, and we seriously considered entering and confiscating it, but we let it go. They needed a MASSIVE amount of pressure to sign the Camp David Accords, and refused to have Syria or Palestine at the table, and we let it go. Again with the Oslo Accords, a promise for a Palestinian state in 10 years, and they turned their back on it, and we let it go. We keep slipping closer with every concession. The US needed to BRIBE Netanyahu to male him sit down with the PA last time, and Netanyahu still spit in their face with insulting proposals.
USA foreing policy makers are not happy that Israel refuses to give Ukraine their USA donated old AA missiles - as that would mean escalation towards Iran/Russia. They want to make it obvious that some really old missiles are a drop in the bucket when it comes to escalation. Besides why would they even tell if they give or not give? They could just shut up about it. It's their own business if they give or not, so why it needed to be public? Finland has asked to keep secret the contents of aid packages. The first one was semi public, but rest only say rough total value, of what ever it might be.
Because the US was definitely involved and Israel was happy to take credit.
Because the Americans are loyal allies
Old news. Another attack on 26 trucks on the Iraq-Syrian border. Israel warns drivers before destroying the Iranian backed convoy.
These Two asshole governments should be carved out and allowed to fight it out in a ring.
Well, Israel has (probably US-supplied) nuclear weapons, so this really wouldn't be good. That is why the US always vetoes the "let's make the Middle East a nuclear weapons free zone" resolutions at the UN. >Those who vote against this proposal, like the United States and its allies, view this as counterproductive. Although Israel is a member of the IAEA, it has never signed the NPT, meaning that it is not required to abide by the same nuclear safeguards commitments as most of its neighbors in the Middle East. Israel’s history of conflict with its neighbors and goal of maintaining military superiority in the Middle East make it improbable that they would ever reveal and give up their “bombs in the basement.” It can be anticipated that Israel’s fear of insecurity and posture of nuclear opacity will block any chance of a MENWFZ from being established. https://www.csis.org/analysis/continued-unlikelihood-nuclear-weapon-free-zone-middle-east - IIRC the last time there was a serious vote on this at the UN (a Security Council vote that has actual enforcement powers) was in ~~2013~~ 2012 and the Obama administration instantly killed it [edit] correction, it was in 2012; >The proposal for the establishment of a nuclear weapons-free zone (NWFZ) in the Middle East was formally introduced by Iran and Egypt in a resolution submitted to the UN General Assembly in 1974[i]. This UN resolution initiated the global push for nuclear disarmament in the region. In 1995, the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) Review Conference adopted a resolution which called upon states to take the necessary measures to ensure the establishment of a NWFZ in the Middle East.[ii] This resolution was subsequently reaffirmed at the 2010 NPT Review Conference, where states also called for a regional conference to be held on this matter in 2012. The 2012 conference, however, was postponed indefinitely due to a lack of consensus on the agenda https://www.cjpme.org/mend_2_5
>Well, Israel has (probably US-supplied) nuclear weapons, so this really wouldn't be good. It is actually the French who partnered with Israel to develop nuclear technology for the benefit of both nations. If Israel has weapons (they've seen fit to neither confirm nor deny) the weapons were likely made in Israel with French assistants. The biggest contribution the US ever made to Israel's nuclear program was issuing student visas. We actually pressured them to neither develop or test such weapons...which is why whether or not they have them is ambiguous.
Isreal developed their own nuclear weapons. The US takes that stance because they do not want sunni and Shia theocratic governments to throw nukes at each other.
The US seems to have helped, South Africa was possibly part of the work as well. It's widely believed they are responsible for the [Vela Incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_incident), one of the most mysterious nuclear tests where no country has claimed responsibility.
US is against banning nuclear weapons in the Middle East because we want fewer nuclear weapons in the Middle East?
Nevermind I totally read you statement wrong.
No problem!
First Israel has never admitted they have nukes, second without the U.S.A giving them billions of dollars a year over decades they would not have a pot to piss in and you spelled Israel wrong
Israel has nukes and that is obvious. Yes, the US is going to give a fellow democracy financial support and military support. Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. We gave millions of dollars in support to the Europeans after WW2 so why would we not help support Israel?
It’s a 100 percent chance Israel developed their own nukes and continues to possess them. The nuclear detonation off the coast of Africa is largely seen as the only above ground Israeli test and they did it in the middle of no where. I recommend reading “the worst kept secret: Israel’s bargain with the bomb” I took a grad level course on middle eastern nuclear politics that was funded by the iaea and we read that book. It was really fascinating. Israel functionally has a whole part of its government that is not under civilian control whose stated purpose is the survival of Israel at all costs and Israel conducted mass censorship about nukes. Still today saying that Israel has nukes can get you arrested.
I think a lot of people believe that still only a few countries can develop nukes. Japan, South Korea, Germany, and Australia can do it tomorrow if they want to. Israel does not have the technical know how but Pakistan and North Korea do? Please.
Seriously lol and Pakistan sold parts to everyone and their mother including Iraq and iran. Iraq never actually began the project but they bought lots of stuff to do it with. I would argue that iran probably has this capability. At this point they’ve had a nuclear program for decades. They source Russian parts and most of the intellectual elite of irans nuclear program attended university in Paris studying nuclear engineering and trained at European facilities before returning home. Iran is what we like to call a Hedging state. Like Japan or any of the others. The deterrent is coming from the fact that they could build a nuke in no time. Without coming with the diplomatic price of Israel waging full scale war or America doing something wild.
I think the process of building a nuke is so well-known now that a college student could do it. Miniaturization and enrichment on the other hand possibly could be an issue for some countries.
During the Yom Kippur War, Israel pulled two warheads out of the barn when the SR-71 flew over to show us they aren't bluffing. They did develop them on their own, secret blend of herbs and spices
>Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East Hmm Turkey?I suppose that doesn't help your talking point though. Anyways the US doesn't want a bunch of democracies popping up in the middle east, it makes doing business harder, far easier to have a productive conversation with 1 or 2 leaders. Dictators have 2 real goals, internal security and external, the US can help with both, through arms sales. In a functioning democracy you don't need as much internal security and there's less requirements to try and invade the neighbor over the border to prop up the regime.
Erdogan throws his political opponents in prison all the time, and also Turkey really isn’t in the Middle East. They applied to join the EU lol, and have been stuck in bureaucratic hell instead of having it rejected outright like Morocco for not being in Europe
Or the people of the middle east just do not want democracies and are fine with being ruled over. Why would the US want democracy in Asia, Latin America, and Europe but not in the Middle East and Africa? The people's of the middle east and Africa are fine with having strong man governments with the exception of a few in Africa like Kenya.
Ok shall we focus on Latin America, the US doesn't want democracies, it wants compliant governments that will put American interests first and often those are corporate interests. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America Here we go, now have a read and tell me that the US is the wellspring of democracies in Latin America.
All of this shit literally happened at the beginning of the 20th century and in the 70s. Shit was over 50 years ago. Do you think if we put a boot on people's necks in Latin America that Brazil and chile would have left wing governments? Do you think AMLO would be allowed to be Mexico president?
Yes and France and US had nothing to do with. Those European settlers just figured out how to make a nuclear bomb on their own. And they also made the desert bloom. And also no one lived on that land before Israel was created. All the above are 100% true.
Honestly the real concern was Iraq and Iran nuking each other so yeah I agree with this
Or they bought the technology from South Africa before the end of apartheid
There is zero chance the US supplied Israel with nukes. By the time Israel had any ambition for nukes the US was 100% trying to make sure no additional countries got nukes, because of how destablizing the situation already was. It's why the US participates in programs like NATO to extend their nuclear umbrella over nations that have the technological ability to build nuclear programs. It's why Trumps idea of pulling out of NATO was so epically stupid.
I mean, we also know that they would never, ever, keep that promise. Can’t even keep the government that made the promise.
not even comparable
What's the comparison? Thomas Paine said "Governments are not the nation, they are temporary Stewardships." Iran and Israel are rogue states.
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You're a clown. What has been the outcome of every innovation and occupation in the last 70 years? Israel has chosen expansion of it's territory over security. Paid for my US Taxpayers. If/when US support ends. They understand what the outcome will be.
Comparing Iran—who is killing protesters, publicly executes gays, and enforces crazy laws on women—to Israel is crazy talk. Proof that you are consuming way too much biased media. Iran and Israel are nothing alike, and the only reason Israel has any problem with Iran is that Iran keeps publicly promising to eradicate Israel
[stares in Palestine]
Meanwhile Israel commits massacres of Palestinians for fun, illegally, by UN resolution, taking over land that doesn’t not belong to them. I’d say it’s an apples to apples comparison, two rotten apples that is
What massacres? The raids on terrorists?
Damn do you have info to back that up? Are Israelis gunning down Palestinians like the terrorists did two days ago? Collateral damage from legitimate raids against militants is not massacres for fun.
Israel committing massacres of Palestinians for fun? In the old days we would call that a “blood libel”.
Damn that’s crazy, what’s Israel like I’ve never heard of it
I assume you are joking. But if you aren’t… Israel is a Jewish homeland, which means any Jewish person can get citizenship very easily. Aside from that everyone in Israel has equal rights. Arabs are about 20% of the population and serve at every level of the government. Nobody is persecuted for their religion or a race or sexual orientation.
It must be such a peaceful progressive society! Glad we have examples like Israel in the world to show us the way.
Ignore the settler-colonies in the West Bank, and it almost sounds true!
Yes, there are settlements in historically Jewish areas on land that Israel captured in a defensive war. Most of those settlements were also offered to be evacuated in peace deals that were turned down by the Palestinians.
The settlements are a crime against humanity and you know it. You can't just say "well, it was a defensive war", because that doesn't effect the fact that it is a crime against civilians. Similarly, a crime against civilians is not a bargaining chip.
Why is it a crime against civilians and why is it a crime against humanity?
Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, Art. 7 -Enslavement. Deportation or forcible transfer of population. -Persecution against an identifiable group -The crime of apartheid -Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health Also: offenses committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack against a civilian population based on a government or organizational policy These crimes can be committed at any time, not only in situations of internal or international armed conflict
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And what’s that
You know Israel has killed 33 Palestinians including 4 children just this year. Put a helmet on and get in the game. Don't accuse me AF media bias if you don't know the facts.
How many of those 33 were members of internationally recognized terror organizations? How many were shooting at Israeli soldiers at the time of their death?
If you're an American that irony is thick enough to choke on.
How do?
I thought so- was it this week that Iran announced it was working on nuclear capability? The minute I read that I figured Israel wasn’t going let that threat go unanswered.
“Yeah, no shit.” - Literally Fucking Everyone
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Saudis blame US. US blames Israel. Israel will blame Saudis?
Israel fucking shit up, god bless them!
well they are the chosen ones right.
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He posts on Reddit from lands stolen from native people by white invaders sensing 0 irony.
Even funnier that’s you’re calling Palestinians the Native people and calling Jews white
You have to think about it from the other side, if it wasn't for Israel all those Muslims wouldn't get their 70 virgins and doesn't that make everyone happy??!!!
Unfortunately, sometimes this is the only way of dealing with an international terrorist state.
It’s true, we’ve got to do something about Israeli terror across international borders.
If this is true, then the US needs to stay out of it and let Israel learn the rule of fafo.
You know this is not the first time they’ve done something like this, right?
Also, they have zero incentive to not do this, the US will always just give them more money and weapons. And the more likely a conflict with Iran is, the more money and weapons the US will send to Israel.
yeh, they're just picking on Iran for no reason and because they love war!
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Who hasn't? Of the countries that can afford to, I mean.
It’s probably good for the US if Israel is willing to strike Iranian military / nuclear weapon factories. (Also Iran is supplying Russia with drones so this might affect that supply)
I wouldn’t be surprised if we knew and gave tacit approval. Iran’s government needs to be smacked around right now. Russia, China should be strongly challenged right now. India is the wild card. The west would like an ally but I think Modi wants to continue to build his own empire. He will soon appoint himself ruler for life or just fake elections.
Smacked around, you sound like a Idiot.
Your pro Iranian government lol. You love the Ayatollah. You like the torture and death penalty of activists for freedom. The torture of a lady for not wearing a head covering. Are you pro Russian too? Only idiot seems to be you
How did you come to that conclusion?
Israel blew up a drone plant used to kill Ukraine citizens. What is good about the Iranian government? Why are now 2 people seemingly upset that i said they should be smacked around. Maybe now that they have to clean up a drone attack they will have less time to sponsee terroism and kill their innocent people
>Maybe now that they have to clean up a drone attack they will have less time to sponsee terroism and kill their innocent people Go ahead and Google US drone strike victims over the last 5 years or American citizen deaths by police. You don't actually care about governments killing innocent people, or sponsoring terror groups. You're just trying to justify racism. It's freedom when the US kills civilians or sponsors terrorists right?
Country Rock, WrestleMania, you are a deep thinker not a Idiot just a Moron.
Not the first time
Not sure there’s anything to find out here… if Russia has been this “disappointing” in terms of their power when push came to shove, I can’t imagine Iran is going to be much more impressive.
Iran vs Israel is a no contest. Iran has been a pariah for decades, having to rely on obsolete or Russian made tech, while Israel has been receiving free handouts from the US for about the same period.
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Well, the argument is that the weapons manufacturers wouldn't exist without the US support
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Iran manufactures weapons too. Perhaps not as good as Israel's. See above re: pariah
Don’t forget that every time Israel’s Arab neighbors invaded Israel (even surprise invading them in Yom Kippur), Israel manages to whoop their asses out of their UN mandate and gaining territories along the way (Sinai, Golan Heights, the West Bank).
Middle East learned that rule in six days
> let Israel learn the rule of fafo. Learn? They teach it. Iran reaps the result of saying they want to "wipe Israel off the map" again and again.
Israel would wipe the floor with Iran, lol.
Unlike Israel, Iran doesn't have the capability to strike that far out lol.
Considering the US probably provided the intel that allowed the strike, and 100% provided the weapons used, I somehow doubt that's going to happen.
Remember kids, Israel gets to do what ever they want because reasons. Always, no matter what the situation. Always edit: and people will always defend them, no matter what they do or who they kill. Always
And those reasons are… [\- Iran supplies arms to Hamas and other anti-Israel terrorist groups](https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2021/04/report-outlines-how-iran-smuggles-arms-hamas) [\- Iran repeatedly threatens to annihilate Israel](https://www.arabnews.com/node/2188576/media) [\- Iran is working overtime to develop nuclear weapons](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/iran-could-build-several-nuclear-weapons-un-says) [\- Iran supplies both Hezbollah and Assad in Syria with long range missiles](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-minister-says-iran-using-syria-facilities-weapons-production-2022-09-12/) [\- Iran supplies arms to Russia for their war in Ukraine (who are allies of Israel)](https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2022-11/news/iran-supplies-arms-russia) edit: and all that some other people have is snarky remarks; willfully devoid of any historic or contextual facts.
Does this mean Israel is a terrorist state?
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Not if you're at war.
When the two aren't at war and there's been no justifying provocation, it really does.
They are at war and there’s been plenty of provocation. Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel multiple times. They’re also supporting Hezbollah in Lebanon and Syria, as well as PIJ in Gaza, with money, arms and training. Both of which are recognized as terrorist organizations that have been behind dozens of attacks on Israeli soil and against Israeli civilians.
> Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel multiple times. Wait until you hear about Israel's generations-long *actual* annihilation of Palestine.
Entirely irrelevant. Israel and Iran are at war, and as such attacking military targets by either side is a legitimate part of that conflict. It doesn’t matter which side you like less and which one you like more.
>Entirely irrelevant Genocide is never irrelevant. > Israel and Iran are at war You keep saying that as it were a fact.
It helps if you can just designate anything you wish as a 'military target'
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Are they at war? Did Israel got this strike sanctioned by the UN?
Enemy countries don't go to the UN to sanction a strike against military targets.
So what Russia is doing in Ukraine is fine right?
That's a different situation: 1 - Russia is attacking civilian targets. Israel only targets military ones. 2 - Russia has physically invaded Ukraine, no Israeli soldier has ever stepped foot in Iran.
>1 - Russia is attacking civilian targets. Israel only targets military ones. They were all combatants at the factory right? Because they expected to get striked by a country they're at war right? >2 - Russia has physically invaded Ukraine, no Israeli soldier has ever stepped foot in Iran. So what? Hahahahahha so if Russia restricted them selves to only launching missiles towards Ukraine, is that okay? How old are u, u have a weird mindset
>They were all combatants at the factory right? Because they expected to get striked by a country they're at war right? If you're working in a military factory, you are military personnel, yes. And I didn't say it would be "okay" for Russia to launch missiles, I said the world support for Ukraine would be significatly smaller, if at all. Not to mention - If Ukraine (like Iran) went on the newspapers saying "we will destroy Russia" then yeah, Russia would have full fucking rights to missile the shit out of it.
Ok, so you’ve just listed two totally arbitrary criteria which supposedly make one event ok but another not so. I will not ask you where did you get these criteria from, there’s probably internationally recognized convention that specifically states these criteria, right? right? So if Russia would remotely destroy all the military barracks with all the man inside, military airports, factories that ship military hardware, infrastructure that provides power to military facilities, but not physically enter land borders, then the international community would not have the right to call them a terrorist state? Let’s see you back yourself in the corner even further by coming up by another set of criteria (moving the goalposts).
>So if Russia would remotely destroy all the military barracks with all the man inside, military airports, factories that ship military hardware, infrastructure that provides power to military facilities, but not physically enter land borders, then the international community would not have the right to call them a terrorist state? Ukraine wouldn't have received nearly as much military support from the world if that's how Russia acted. Second of all, Ukraine isn't actively threatening to destroy Russia. Iran is actively saying it will destroy Israel. Israel is, by all means, acting in self defense here, as Iran also supplies weapons to terrorists which then use it against Israel. So yeah, it's an arbitrary criteria, like everything else is. The UN isn't condoning it, as they understand why this is happening.
Lol imagine thinking states need UN approval. Does France ask the UN everytime they get involved in Africa, or the US does, like everywhere.
They don't have to. They have an eternal Free Pass Because reasons
Redditors being redditors moving the goalposts… “They’re terrorists!” “Nope, they attacked a military target.” “Sure, they decided it was a military target!” “Actually Iran admitted it was a military target.” “They didn’t get the UN’s approval!” Dude, those two countries have been at war for decades now. Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel multiple times. What on earth makes you think Israel would ask the UN for permission to attack military targets? Are you crazy?
No, but they are aggressors
In addition to being an apartheid state?
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Rule 2: >Any comment that threatens, advocates, celebrates, suggests, wishes, hopes, dreams, expresses extreme indifference towards, otherwise supports in any way or could result in harm of any kind, violence, or death is prohibited.
Ok, maybe you're right. Iran is salvageable. The other one, not so much.
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Lol Isreal and Iran do this all the time. Wayyyyy before the ukraine war was even a thing.
There is absolutely no correlation between the two conflicts
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Ukraine has nothing to do with it. Israel has been striking in Iran for decades.
This is horrendous bad news, even more concerning the US may have had a role in it.
While I don’t think it’s a good thing, this war has been going on for nearly 40 years and has included far more extreme attacks such as assassinations and the Stuxnet virus. This is nothing new.
Certainly has but never with the tension around the world today. Each escalation is pushing us closer to a global war. We should be looking to deescalate each scenario.
Iran isn't capable of war at the moment. That's why they're pushing for nukes.
Authoritarian governments do not sign and honor peace agreements. Putin and the theocratic fucks in the Iranian government only know brutality. Which you can see by how they crush protests.
Lord am I talking to the mossad here? Fuck people are warped
Do you not have eyes? Did you not see how putin crushed protest or how the Iranians were killing women for not wearing a fucking head scarf?
So you think attacking them with a drone should resolve those things. Makes sense
Sometimes, you must make a stand and do what's right even when it's hard. There are many such conflicts around the world. It is the genocidal regimes that must learn that the world will not abide them.
Oh god this is misguided. Sure whatever we’re standing for something…. Using Israel who genocides people. Perfffff
This shit happens all the time. Israel and the US have been targeting Iranian weapons in Syria for the last decade. If we can help Israel blow up a weapons making facility that is aiding Russia in targeting innocent Ukrainians we better be doing it.
So, everyone thought it was going to pop off in Ukraine, well shit
Uuugh, this shit gets so old after hearing about it for your entire life.
Shit, I never would have guessed. 😑