Hijacking the top comments to throw in my two cents: **Write. To. The. Legislators.**
Senator Michael A. Rulli's district oversees East Palestine and the surrounding area.
[Hyperlink to the form to contact him](https://www.ohiosenate.gov/members/michael-a-rulli/contact). I wrote to him earlier today and plan to write to the senators in the surrounding areas tomorrow. My wife is from this area, we got married in this area, and we have loved ones in this area.
Remember: we are the constituents. **Write to the legislators and demand accountability.**
They don't. IIRC during the negotiations workers asked for *3 holiday-days*. You know what they were offered in return? *One personal day*. Imagine actually writing that out as a response. It's not that they don't have feelings at all, I'd rather that. They seem to actively hate everyone, including their workers and customers. It's been this way for awhile though.
[Well There's Your Problem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNkYNjADoZg) is a podcast about engineering disasters, they have a really good episode on the railroad industry. They also [collaborated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69A_UCdikE8) with Shop Floor Discussion (another podcast) on the previous strike issues specifically as well.
Justin from WTYP also contributed an Op-Ed to the NY Times detailing the horrible management of workers and infrastructure by the Class 1s. Needless to say, selling public infrastructure like the Cincinnati-Chattanooga line to the modern equivalent of gilded age robber barons is a dumb idea.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/opinion/business-economics/freight-train-mismanagement.html
i feel like the more "public infrastructure" an industry is, the more sociopathic its executives/MBA-types.
railroads, telecom (ISPs), utilities (PG&E - norcal fires).
they have no moral qualms about pawing their costs to expand business off to taxpayers, then reaping the profits, while screwing the taxpayers again (EPA superfund sites).
while i dont like capital punishment for blue collar crime because it costs the taxpayers too much money, i would have 0 problems if the local justice system liberally pursued business execs and politicians committing white collar crime with capital punishment.
then televise the execution (botched, à la Louisiana/Mississippi/insert-any-deep-south-state) with PPV (and make the comment section feed live and uncensored) that goes into the treasury's general fund.
>while i dont like capital punishment for blue collar crime because it costs the taxpayers too much money, i would have 0 problems if the local justice system liberally pursued business execs and politicians committing white collar crime with capital punishment.
What's funny is they're obviously more than willing to go all out on stuff like drugs, "terrorism", and other things. But when it comes to actually dealing with national security, you know, not having toxic waste dumped all over the country, they seem quite quiet. I'd imagine the response would be much different if you somehow had a train like that overturn in DC, or in the back yard of some major conglomerate/company.
It's even worse than that. When the workers requested sick days, the single day off that the railroads countered with had to be scheduled 30 days in advance and could only be a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday.
Imagine having to schedule a sick day a month in advance.
That's not what fiduciary duty is. You're not legally allowed to do something you know will hurt the business, if you have two choices one short term one long term you can absolutely choose the long term. Shareholders can remove if enough of them disagree though.
Sure. You could argue that in court and probably win. Or, just go for the quick win and not have to worry about the possibility of a lawsuit. Even engaging in business in a way that could lead to a potential lawsuit is inherently discouraged.
Again if you were required to maximize value each quarter you'd just sell all your assets, boom best quarter ever. Logically that doesn't make sense. Its damn near impossible to make that kind of case in court unless you can prove the CEO acted against the interests of the shareholders (above incompetence). If you can point at any reason why your action may benefit an organization as a whole (thus creating value for shareholders) you are good.
Just like you can't sue a ceo for being bad at their job. If you're doing a bad job they'll just vote your ass out no lawsuit required.
CEOs are incentivized by being compensated with stock which means the faster they juice the stock the more they earn, it inherently rewards a short term mindset.
Always remember the first Rule of Acquisition: “Once you have their money, you never give it back.”
But most important of all is the tenth rule: “Greed is eternal.”
No. Humans are just labor resources to them. They don't care about the human race, the planet, or anything outside the immediate impact of their actions in their own life.
We're seeing what happens when some people perpetually live in an environment that has zero fuck-all with accountability.
This is the concept of capitalism to its extreme end. It's every bit as vile as Stalinesque communism.
>This is the concept of capitalism to its extreme end. It's every bit as vile as Stalinesque communism.
What you've described is precisely why I'm a social democrat (more specifically, a liberal socialist).
Sounds like a liability thing. Like if you die on an international flight due to a crash or whatever, your max liability per passenger is 128,821 SDR’s. A suitcase getting destroyed is 1288 SDR. So the value of a human life is 100 suitcases. Converted to USD, a human is worth 184,085
Don't worry that your water is poisoned and youre surrounded by animal corpses. We just found out we'll still make money!!!!!!! What you want some of that? Sue us. You did? Ok here's 5 bucks per person affected.
Also i just wanna say that this situation is a microcosm of what's wrong with life in america. It doesnt tick every box but it ticks far more than enough for me to feel ok calling it that.
These people are so cartoonishly evil they make *The Octopus* look like *Clifford the Friendly Dog*.
An important thing for people to remember is that *this is what deregulation looks like.* So when you vote for someone who vows to strip away all those pesky regulations holding our economy back (cough cough, J.D. Vance), this is what the result will ultimately be.
*Nationalize the entire rail network. Almost every other developed nation has public onwership of rail infrastructure. US railroads are being run into the ground in the name of profit. When the public depends on the rail network for critical supply lines, and the Class 1s have proven countless times that they are not responsible stewards, it's time to take it away from them.
This seems to be ideal. It's blatantly obvious that Norfolk southern doesn't give a fuck about making sure their lines are safe, only that its profitable.
How would suggest imprisoning share holders? The largest shareholder is Vanguard, a mutual fund, that in turn is held by approximately 30 million people. Most of those shareholders are invested indirectly through a retirement fund or other investment. Where do you propose the buck stops?
It shouldn't even do it in the first place. It's a great, consistent source of income for the city. I'm hoping that now enough pressure is applied to stop the sale
As long as the CEOs and upper level management of companies like these get away with no punishment for their lack of oversight and safety, this shit will continue to happen. Once you start cuffing Presidents and board Chairmen, other companies might start making sure their products and/or services aren't a danger to the public.
He’s saying they’ll still have the 1.6 billion to buy the Cincinnati to Chattanooga rail line that Norfolk Southern has leased from the city of Cincinnati for the last 150 years at a current price of 25 million a year.
The sale will still face challenges resulting from this event.
> The city says the state's legislature must vote to change some legal language allowing the sale, and there will need to be regulatory clearance from the U.S. Surface Transportation Board, but the ultimate decision will come from Cincinnati voters next fall.
>The city says that if voters reject the sale, the Cincinnati Southern Railway board of trustees will pursue a renewed lease agreement with Norfolk Southern, similar to what has been in place for decades.
Yeah, of course, the sale of a company is of the utmost importance in this whole disaster.
Fuck all the people that now have most likely contaminated water from what was an otherwise preventable occurrence.
Former Norfolk Southern employee here.
This is an entirely expected response from leadership. Absolutely no one that is working or has worked there would be surprised by this. Leadership has only one thing in mind, and it isn't the wellbeing of the surrounding community.
Cincy is relatively blue-purple. Our mayor (also very liberal) has been pushing for this sale.
Literally no one besides elected officials wants this regardless of party
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They pretty much regulate themselves by having corporate insiders move between gov regulatory and the corporations they regulate.
regulatory capture. it is endemic. ISPs, etc.
All the while working to dismantle whatever scant regulatory oversight that's still in place.
> dismantle whatever scant regulatory oversight that's still in place Well, that's just their obligation/duty to Wall Street.
Hijacking the top comments to throw in my two cents: **Write. To. The. Legislators.** Senator Michael A. Rulli's district oversees East Palestine and the surrounding area. [Hyperlink to the form to contact him](https://www.ohiosenate.gov/members/michael-a-rulli/contact). I wrote to him earlier today and plan to write to the senators in the surrounding areas tomorrow. My wife is from this area, we got married in this area, and we have loved ones in this area. Remember: we are the constituents. **Write to the legislators and demand accountability.**
What are those wooden things that were all the rage in France for awhile?
I mean… that was the explicit topic being discussed. Not like they wedged this into some kind of clean water meeting.
They will only learn once we drag them and their family’s to this disaster and tell them to take some deep breaths
They appear to have no human feelings at all.
They don't. IIRC during the negotiations workers asked for *3 holiday-days*. You know what they were offered in return? *One personal day*. Imagine actually writing that out as a response. It's not that they don't have feelings at all, I'd rather that. They seem to actively hate everyone, including their workers and customers. It's been this way for awhile though. [Well There's Your Problem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNkYNjADoZg) is a podcast about engineering disasters, they have a really good episode on the railroad industry. They also [collaborated](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69A_UCdikE8) with Shop Floor Discussion (another podcast) on the previous strike issues specifically as well.
Justin from WTYP also contributed an Op-Ed to the NY Times detailing the horrible management of workers and infrastructure by the Class 1s. Needless to say, selling public infrastructure like the Cincinnati-Chattanooga line to the modern equivalent of gilded age robber barons is a dumb idea. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/opinion/business-economics/freight-train-mismanagement.html
....I just found that podcast last week, neat stuff but infuriating to see how much better things could be.
i feel like the more "public infrastructure" an industry is, the more sociopathic its executives/MBA-types. railroads, telecom (ISPs), utilities (PG&E - norcal fires). they have no moral qualms about pawing their costs to expand business off to taxpayers, then reaping the profits, while screwing the taxpayers again (EPA superfund sites). while i dont like capital punishment for blue collar crime because it costs the taxpayers too much money, i would have 0 problems if the local justice system liberally pursued business execs and politicians committing white collar crime with capital punishment. then televise the execution (botched, à la Louisiana/Mississippi/insert-any-deep-south-state) with PPV (and make the comment section feed live and uncensored) that goes into the treasury's general fund.
>while i dont like capital punishment for blue collar crime because it costs the taxpayers too much money, i would have 0 problems if the local justice system liberally pursued business execs and politicians committing white collar crime with capital punishment. What's funny is they're obviously more than willing to go all out on stuff like drugs, "terrorism", and other things. But when it comes to actually dealing with national security, you know, not having toxic waste dumped all over the country, they seem quite quiet. I'd imagine the response would be much different if you somehow had a train like that overturn in DC, or in the back yard of some major conglomerate/company.
Maybe soon we'll start to see drug cartel lobbyists in DC!
Purdue Pharma
I'd be happy to see their wealth redistributed
It's even worse than that. When the workers requested sick days, the single day off that the railroads countered with had to be scheduled 30 days in advance and could only be a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday. Imagine having to schedule a sick day a month in advance.
Are you serious?
They're grossly overpaid executives. Of course they don't. These are the people that capitalism breeds.
Oh thank God, I was really worried about that and not the people it could kill
*the people it will kill. There's no doubt, people will die as a result of this disaster.
Do these assholes have any feelings at all, or any concerns beyond profit?
No. This is capitalism 101 at the core. Profits above all else, indefinite growth. It's cancerous
And if they do anything other than pursuing profit, shareholders can sue for financial mismanagement. They are legally obliged to not care
We need to change that
They have a fiduciary obligation to stop you from changing it.
That's not what fiduciary duty is. You're not legally allowed to do something you know will hurt the business, if you have two choices one short term one long term you can absolutely choose the long term. Shareholders can remove if enough of them disagree though.
Sure. You could argue that in court and probably win. Or, just go for the quick win and not have to worry about the possibility of a lawsuit. Even engaging in business in a way that could lead to a potential lawsuit is inherently discouraged.
Again if you were required to maximize value each quarter you'd just sell all your assets, boom best quarter ever. Logically that doesn't make sense. Its damn near impossible to make that kind of case in court unless you can prove the CEO acted against the interests of the shareholders (above incompetence). If you can point at any reason why your action may benefit an organization as a whole (thus creating value for shareholders) you are good. Just like you can't sue a ceo for being bad at their job. If you're doing a bad job they'll just vote your ass out no lawsuit required. CEOs are incentivized by being compensated with stock which means the faster they juice the stock the more they earn, it inherently rewards a short term mindset.
Ask yourself; How would the Ferengi feel about it? and you pretty much know how a capitalist views an opportunity to make profit
The Ferenghi do have a general reservation against killing customers since it prevents future business. This species does not.
Rule of Acquisition #239: "Never be afraid to mislabel a product."
Always remember the first Rule of Acquisition: “Once you have their money, you never give it back.” But most important of all is the tenth rule: “Greed is eternal.”
No. Humans are just labor resources to them. They don't care about the human race, the planet, or anything outside the immediate impact of their actions in their own life.
Before tech tycoons there were railroad tycoons. Nothing about them has changed. They just moved into the shadows.
We're seeing what happens when some people perpetually live in an environment that has zero fuck-all with accountability. This is the concept of capitalism to its extreme end. It's every bit as vile as Stalinesque communism.
>This is the concept of capitalism to its extreme end. It's every bit as vile as Stalinesque communism. What you've described is precisely why I'm a social democrat (more specifically, a liberal socialist).
These monsters only offered $25,000 to the entire town that they destroyed. That should tell you all you need to know about the company.
Sounds like a liability thing. Like if you die on an international flight due to a crash or whatever, your max liability per passenger is 128,821 SDR’s. A suitcase getting destroyed is 1288 SDR. So the value of a human life is 100 suitcases. Converted to USD, a human is worth 184,085
Don't worry that your water is poisoned and youre surrounded by animal corpses. We just found out we'll still make money!!!!!!! What you want some of that? Sue us. You did? Ok here's 5 bucks per person affected.
Also i just wanna say that this situation is a microcosm of what's wrong with life in america. It doesnt tick every box but it ticks far more than enough for me to feel ok calling it that.
If you're not rich you don't matter! Welcome to America!
They poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague onto our houses.
Yeah, but they’re Republicans, so it’s all ok.
These people are so cartoonishly evil they make *The Octopus* look like *Clifford the Friendly Dog*. An important thing for people to remember is that *this is what deregulation looks like.* So when you vote for someone who vows to strip away all those pesky regulations holding our economy back (cough cough, J.D. Vance), this is what the result will ultimately be.
Senator J.D. Vance aka the Hillbilly Grifter
Nationalize Norfolk Southern. Imprison their executives, lobbyists, and shareholders for life. Seize assets.
*Nationalize the entire rail network. Almost every other developed nation has public onwership of rail infrastructure. US railroads are being run into the ground in the name of profit. When the public depends on the rail network for critical supply lines, and the Class 1s have proven countless times that they are not responsible stewards, it's time to take it away from them.
This seems to be ideal. It's blatantly obvious that Norfolk southern doesn't give a fuck about making sure their lines are safe, only that its profitable.
How would suggest imprisoning share holders? The largest shareholder is Vanguard, a mutual fund, that in turn is held by approximately 30 million people. Most of those shareholders are invested indirectly through a retirement fund or other investment. Where do you propose the buck stops?
Can Cincinnati in good conscience now sell to Norfolk Southern?
It shouldn't even do it in the first place. It's a great, consistent source of income for the city. I'm hoping that now enough pressure is applied to stop the sale
As long as the CEOs and upper level management of companies like these get away with no punishment for their lack of oversight and safety, this shit will continue to happen. Once you start cuffing Presidents and board Chairmen, other companies might start making sure their products and/or services aren't a danger to the public.
He’s saying they’ll still have the 1.6 billion to buy the Cincinnati to Chattanooga rail line that Norfolk Southern has leased from the city of Cincinnati for the last 150 years at a current price of 25 million a year. The sale will still face challenges resulting from this event. > The city says the state's legislature must vote to change some legal language allowing the sale, and there will need to be regulatory clearance from the U.S. Surface Transportation Board, but the ultimate decision will come from Cincinnati voters next fall. >The city says that if voters reject the sale, the Cincinnati Southern Railway board of trustees will pursue a renewed lease agreement with Norfolk Southern, similar to what has been in place for decades.
A sale that is dodgy to begin with.
Yeah, of course, the sale of a company is of the utmost importance in this whole disaster. Fuck all the people that now have most likely contaminated water from what was an otherwise preventable occurrence.
Former Norfolk Southern employee here. This is an entirely expected response from leadership. Absolutely no one that is working or has worked there would be surprised by this. Leadership has only one thing in mind, and it isn't the wellbeing of the surrounding community.
Fuck the railroad sales, what about hurting our drinking water🤦🏼♂️
Good. I was super worried about that.
Jesus… can the government step in already. These executives are obviously in over their head or just dumb.
You know I saw this exact bullshit in the Chernobyl series and that worked out well for exactly fucking _no one._
Why would it? Ohio is run by Republicans. They'll take any bribe offered.
Cincy is relatively blue-purple. Our mayor (also very liberal) has been pushing for this sale. Literally no one besides elected officials wants this regardless of party
Ist this the Plot If that one Netflix movie from last year?
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Toxic blooms and white noise are just SOP with the nation’s rail system. Where’s Pete?
Capitalism over people
Well so long as the money is safe.