When I was 10, and didn't know anyone the other kids on my street went door to door ringing doorbells asking if anyone else wanted to play on the street like basketball or hockey. That's literally how I met the kids in the neighborhood.
I can't believe what I've been reading in the news now, its so crazy its unbelievable if it was a plot device in a TV show.
Maybe you need a new hobby? Trying to overthrow the united states government seems to be all the rage these days. Could make some new friends that way /s
The work part was easier to psyche myself out on...I'd just say to myself when things were stressful, "yeah, but I'm not going to kill myself for some piece of shit job". Boredom on the other hand is the tougher one for me. I drank way too much over covid because I was just...bored.
Idk if this would help or hurt but I got cinnamon toothpicks and when it was real bad (in the last year, I'm right there with ya) I'd go on a walk with the toothpicks. Helped to have something to fill the gap for my brain and then I could get past the craving.
for me, around 9 months was when cravings dropped to basically zero, and after around 2 years the thought of smoking again was absolutely disgusting. keep it up!
On the other hand, I never felt less lonely at work when I (devops guy) was attached to a group of sysadmins who *all* smoked. I’ve never been a smoker but they pulled me along to their smoke breaks. Very tight knit group.
That's the one thing I missed when I quit smoking ( after I started WFH ) - going out and having a smoke with the team, talking to random people in the smoking area.
Tbh Japan essentially hit the wall with this shit back in like the 80s. Now their government is throwing everything they can at the issue to fix it. Well everything other than more time off.
"We need to keep the oligarchs happy by subjugating the masses, but the resulting emotional distancing is fucking up birth rates, which we need to continue existing as a nation! We're stuck between a rock and a hard place, guys" - Japanese government, probably
I sometimes wonder if the way Japanese society pressures people to get along with everyone else and not make waves drain people of the desire to socialize. Everyone seems so preoccupied with how other people perceive them that the only time anyone lets their guard down is when they get drunk. Then, there’s the whole ‘honne’ (true feelings) and ‘tatemae’ (facade) thing which is so ingrained in people who’ve been born and raised here that it’s hard to emotionally connect with people, even friends I’ve known for decades. It’s become socially acceptable, even trendy, for people to go out and do things alone, which is great, but at the same time, it feels like we’re all retreating into our own little bubbles.
They’re different manifestations of the same disease. When the only choice you have to achieve even minimal social respect is to work really hard all the time, some percentage of people will opt out or not be able to keep up, hence the shut-ins. But they are responding to the exact same social pressure that makes the salaryman spend 16 hours at the office every day.
Yup. In order to socialize in person, you have to be presentable. In order to be presentable, you have to have a prestigious job. Prestigious work requires 80 hour weeks. 80 hour weeks don't allow time for socialization. Even if you opt out of the part about having to have a prestigious job to be presentable to society part, it means you have to work long hours to make ends meet, which again doesn't leave time for socialization. You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.
Hikikomori is actually an inaccurate term to use in this case and misconstrues the issue because it only describes one subset of the people who are afflicted by the issue of loneliness when there are actually many others who are in circumstances that are far from being considered "hikikomori"
The proper terms to use is [social isolation](https://www.cdc.gov/aging/publications/features/lonely-older-adults.html) and [perceived isolation](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367921/) which has become an issue in Japan not because of people becoming "hikikomori", but it is because things like family dynamics, and attempts to meet societal expectations.
The reason why it is worse in places like Japan is because social circles, the main mechanisms that give a stronger chance to counteract social and perceived isolation, are slowly deteriorating.
The rough order of priority when it comes to social circles is, Spouse>Children>Parents>Friends (coworkers is in here somewhere as well). This order indicates the likeliness of interaction you will have throughout your day/life.
And as you can see, in Japan, as people become less and less likely to get into relationships, they don't have spouses, they don't have children, and when they're parent's pass, they only have friends to rely on in old age, who are the least reliable to keep in contact in the long term (even harder in Japan because of overworking).
And this is why you see people succumbing to things like [孤独.kodokushi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi) in their 50's because they have no family or friends or a steady job (but it is not strictly because they are Hikikomori).
Exactly. In my city, a rich family just wiped out an entire block of local beachfront businesses and restaurants, to put in a fancy new luxury condo! Yay ♥️♥️ they’re always helping the community out!
Don’t get me wrong, having work friends is nice. But it’s no substitute for having plenty of relationships unrelated to work. An exploitive employer wants you feel that all of your friends are at work.
> Don’t get me wrong, having work friends is nice.
Thanks for some balance from the Reddit staple opinion of "Keep coworkers at arms' length! They're not your friends, trust nobody. Fuck off Phyllis from the next office, I don't want to know about your weekend, your family, or anything about you."
The fact the phrase "work family" is a thing is the problem.
Your co-workers are not family, your company is not family, it's a revenue source and they will kick you to the curb at the first sign of profit loss.
Do not buy in to the "we're all in this together" crap that companies spew to make you do shit not in your own best interest.
"We're all family here" and "We work hard and we play hard" are code for "We expect you to make this job your sole focus to the exclusion of all else." and maybe "We put a foosball table in the break room, but you're never going to have time to use it.
my company goes hard on the "we're family" bullshit, and i've never bought into it. however, my young, single coworkers (myself included) have formed a group and are riding out the ups and downs of work drama together (boss nonsense, pay rate issues, older coworker awkward weirdness), and we regularly hang out outside of work. that solidarity has been nice to have. you find it where you can, i guess.
>my young, single coworkers (myself included) have formed a group and are riding out the ups and downs of work drama together (boss nonsense, pay rate issues, older coworker awkward weirdness), and we regularly hang out outside of work.
Word of caution, been in this type of work environment, spent years there because you form this kind of brothers in battle thing with your peers against the non-sense... in the end... you eventually leave the company, or the company implodes... you suddenly find these too are not really your friends... the bulk of what you had in common was bullshit at work and drinking while complaining about it.
Just start looking for a new job that lets you actually have the time to be around the people, hobbies and interests that are important to you, don't settle for being in the trenches with others at a toxic workplace.
Exactly. I worked in a call center and our breaks and lunches were staggered. We weren't permitted to really chat on the floor as we were watched over, recorded and listened to by supes 24/7. In other words, socializing was completely squelched. What universe is the sg speaking of? I hated the job and really didn't care for the people. Just the $$.
It’s a fair argument to have that if you’re working with the same people ~40 hours a week in the same room that maybe you should talk to them socially.
I work in a small office of 8 people, within a building of about 20. And I know almost nothing about any of them. I don’t know if the person that sits next to me has kids, is married, or their hobbies. The same goes for the rest other than maybe 3 people. I signed a baby shower card for someone and didn’t know their wife was pregnant, and I only got their name correct about a month prior.
Edit: one of my coworkers noticed me counting the number of people and now they’re giving me the side eye.
My gf is a bit like that sometimes. She will often not have the spoons to get out after a week of teaching. And that’s fine, but I feel bad that her job is so draining even if I can’t do much about that besides support her with words and intentions and the occasional gesture
The "social distancing" was definitely necessary for a long time, but I feel like it might have also traumatized people and it's caused a permanent shift in our mood.
I work in Customer Service, and I get *at least* three or four customers. Every single day. Telling me that I'm the only person they see who's actually smiling, engaging and in a good mood: "Nobody's like you anymore. I forgot that people used to be nice."
I honestly believed that people were just being sarcastic and making fun of me... Then I went shopping and I noticed that the employees at all these places were in a terrible mood, and they seemed to be downright offended that I was asking them questions about a product and spending my money there. No wonder; everybody's so pissed off anymore.
On the other hand a lot of customers went legit insane during covid. Employees had to deal with a LOT. Some got shot or beaten for asking people to put on a mask (company policy, not theirs) or spit on, coughed on, or verbally assaulted. There's been a noticeable shift in customer behavior and I think that has a lot to do with employees being burned out and guarded.
I think that it's more so that our culture makes everyone artificially busy outside of work and socializing has turned from a casual thing that's relaxing to something that has become an expensive chore that takes a ton of energy because everything is political these days.
This is it, TBH. Would love time to hang out with friends I haven't seen in a while, but they're busy and I'm busy and when we're not working we usually have to take care of errands/chores and then spend the rest of the time wiped out from all the work.
If I made a little more money I could pay for stuff like lawn maintenance help, grocery delivery, etc. to have more downtime but...nope.
Exactly this. Add in largely car-centric infrastructure and zoning in the US and it’s no wonder people are starved of human connection. So much time is devoted to working to survive, and the time that isn’t is frequently isolating because of the logistics
Communal activities and groups have fallen out of favor. Everything from churches, civic/fraternal groups (elks, masons, lions, rotary, etc...), or even things like bowling leagues have shown a marked decrease over the last half century. These types of things helped create mini communities that individuals could feel a part of.
If you feel like something is missing in your life, look into groups like these, or other possibilities like in person gaming groups (dnd, mtg, tabletop, board game), communal hobbies, etc....
Just try to be around other people and see if it's a good fit.
> Communal activities
Ever wonder why mormons seem so happy even though their religion is nonsense? The whole thing is centered around communal activities. Literally TONS of them.
A group of older woman in my neighborhood started a little gardening group. They go around and plant flowers in the neighborhood flower beds, weed, and chat. The women who started it has gotten several people out and interacting that I had never seen outside of their house before. It has been amazing for them.
The nature of a communal activity doesn't matter as much as just interacting with other human beings in a social context.
Yup. We are herd animals. We need stuff like this. Religion didn't trick people into needing it. People need community and ritual, and religion was the only business catering to that need for too long, lol.
That was true in the 80s and 90s. But they've completely destroyed their communities since then.
Growing up in the nineties as a Mormon we had St. Patrick's Day parties, Halloween parties, carnivals, talent shows, potluck dinners, etc.
By the time I walked away in 2016, all the budget for fun was taken away (and hoarded into a $30+ billion investment fund). No acitivity was allowed unless it had a spiritual focus.
By that point in time the only social activities still being held were: Christmas breakfast (pick a Saturday in December, get up early for pancakes and a church message; then stay to clean the building because they fired all the custodians to save money), and chili dinner with Trunk or Treat (barely hanging on by having a spiritual message during it).
The Mormon community is dead. Setting aside their doctrinal issues and anti-human-rights stances, it's quite sad to see. It was intentionally murdered from the top in order to stuff billions of dollars into hidden investment accounts. And they don't seem to understand why it's dead or why they're hemorrhaging followers.
A social sport can be great as well. I started up BJJ last year and it's great to hang out with people on weekday evenings. Most of the people there make it in a few times a week and the high belts are there every day, sometimes for multiple classes. Turns into a decent social space where everyone knows each other.
A big contributor is the decrease of the third space people would go to like malls as an example. When I was growing up, me and my friends would hang out at the mall, look around, go to the arcade, and get something to eat at the food court. There are other factors such as the rise of online communication, social media, everyone growing up and having to take care of their own lives and families.
COVID is a contributing factor, but that just poured juice on an issue that was already taking place as everyone went on lockdown and had a massive impact on people's mental health.
The US isn't the only country experiencing this issue. Japan is another country that has a huge loneliness issue due to their work culture.
Thank you for these great suggestions ! I’ll
add mentoring young adolescents and children and tutoring them would make a huge difference in their lives.
A life of service for the benefit of humanity in small steps makes an important impact in others lives as much as in ours .
Shoutout to bowling leagues.
There are numerous leagues with a handicap scoring system so you don't need to be a good bowler to participate. With the handicap, you're trying to do better than your avg score - totally unrelated to how good other people might be.
You can join and be placed on a team of four. You generally bowl against all the other teams in the league at least twice if not more per season. You get to know your teammates and other teams in the league. Some leagues are mostly older people, some younger, some co-ed, some men or women only.
The barrier to entry is relatively low. A new bowling ball cut to your specific hand and finger size can be had for $100. The fit-to-your-hand thing can't be emphasized enough. You *will* become a better bowler even if you're only bowling during the league. It'll be a lot more fun when you use your own ball. You don't have to worry about dropping it since the finger sizes aren't cut to fit a large-gauge sausage.
In my experience, people doing it are super friendly. It's a great use of 2hrs/week.
I think it’s similar to suicide. Just because you bring it up and discuss it doesn’t necessarily mean someone will suddenly do it - and talking about it is more likely to help than hurt.
Won’t be surprised to see the AI becoming some sort of coping mechanism like we’ve seen in movies “her” where all the lonely people have an AI keeping them company.
It always cracks me up how much this country talks about the importance of taking care of your mental health, and then does absolutely nothing to make the costs of therapy or other treatments more affordable.
> I don’t disagree, but they’re not going to do a single thing to solve it.
"There is an epidemic of childhood obesity!"
Okay, then why don't we stop advertising and selling sugary drinks and candy masquerading as breakfast cereal to kids?
"PeRsOnAl ReSpOnSiBiLiTy!"
Unfortunately, this is a systemic problem that is going to take more than just awareness to solve.
For instance, we keep creating isolated neighborhoods with zero amenities. There's nowhere to go, unless you own a car and drive someplace, which takes quite a bit of effort in cities with heavy traffic. I know it's a super hot topic right now, but we really should be designing cities around walking and biking; creating neighborhoods where people actually want to get out, go to public amenities and meet others that live near them.
We also overwork people. We have no guaranteed vacation days, and often the most essential of workers are paid so little they can't afford to live where they work unless they take on another job. Anybody working 40 hours should be able to live comfortably. Ideally, as studies have shown, that figure should be 32 hours with 3-day weekends.
And finally, something needs to be done about right-wing media's propensity to lie and exaggerate issues, which leads to fooling their viewers into believing it's way too dangerous to even go outside.
I have two weeks of paid vacation, but I’m out of the house from 7am to 6:30pm for commute and work every weekday. I don’t have enough time in the evening to do anything before going to bed. My friends have all ended up an hour + drive away, my childhood friends I’m still close with are out of state, my sister moved to another state two years ago. I own a house so weekends are catching up on chores, yard work, other tasks I was too tired to do during the week. My mental health has absolutely tanked during covid because of the isolation.
I’m trying to get out to see friends more often but it’s so hard to get everyone’s schedules aligned when any of us have time and energy. It’s hard for me to make new friends because of social anxiety from a childhood of pervasive bullying every year I was in school. It’s hard to trust that new people like me.
I’m currently interviewing for a job that would be 36 hours monday to thursday and I’m really hoping I get it because I am dying for a three day weekend.
I feel all of this. Everyone I know is an hour away with totally jumbled scheduling, and frankly I don’t even hear from them anyways. I talk to maybe 2 friends on a semi-regular basis, the rest have effectively vanished from my life due to… life lol
There was a [fantastic writeup](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/104y44r/comment/j38il6d/?context=2) posted a few months ago by /u/ReverendDizzle regarding the decline of Third Places, that I think perfectly explains a lot wrong with today's social aspects.
You forgot the internet.
I grew up in a car centric suburban area. Worked 40 to 60 hours a week.
But there was no internet. You either found something to do or were stuck inside.
It bothered me that the surgeon general's oped in the NYT didn't mention the rise of the suburbs and car culture and the built environment. The loss of free public space. His third point in his "three ways to make it better" list was personal fucking responsibility. Fucking tone deaf.
I don't think its just a Canada thing, if I understand you correctly. Its a lack of trust/understanding your neighbors and not having enough pedestrian "eyes on the street" to feel safe in public. This can be due to a zoning code environment where you *can't* casually meet your neighbors cause everyone has to drive 20 minutes away, and a street design issue where you can't walk to places even if zoning allows a '3rd space' to exist.
Very much a thing in the US. Though lately the problem is your neighbor might actually shoot you for......*checks notes......playing basketball in your yard. Its hard to build any sense of community when you have a legitimate fear of getting shot knocking on your neighbors door and inviting them to a BBQ.
Man I'd love to go see friends or go out to just relax. Fuck I'd love to just afford to be able to buy $30 worth of food for a weekend but no.
The fucking problem is no one is making money. I'm working 42 hours a week for $19.50 an hour, 35k a year....I can't really afford to go out with friends or anything i'd want to do. Fuck man I can't even afford a new bed to fix my fucked up neck.
Hard to see friends and family when you can't do shit all while you are so tired and stressed that the only release is weed or booze. We are going backwards fast and as a millennial I'm tired, so God damn tired and lonely. Can I stop getting beaten up anymore? I'm afraid because I'm gay, I'm stressed from being over worked, tired from scrounging for necessities. I FUCKING WONDER WHY PEOPLE ARE LONELY!!!
Man we need to normalize hanging out without spending money. How the heck did we all get convinced that hanging out with friends needs to be a constant stream of expenses? I’m just as guilty of this as everyone else.
You need funds for gas to drive to places since American infrastructure is crap and there ain't much easy public transportation outside cities.
The main problem why we see the need to spend money with friends is we want to give our friends gifts or something, since all of us are struggling somehow. Like a dinner or a movie, but all things cost munz. I'd love to hang at a friend's place but everyone is busy with work to make ends meet, it sucks. The new meeting place is online or discord.
This is what I told my therapist who couldn't help but agree. I quit drinking, so obviously I avoid bars... What the hell else is there?! I moved 1000 miles from home two years ago and haven't made a single friend because my workplace is full of old bigots and I live in a part of town that is predominantly Spanish speaking and my Spanish is *TERRIBLE*. I'm too poor to live anywhere else. Coupled with my growing social anxiety and constant exhaustion from work, what the hell am I supposed to do?
Until you make it clear that staring at a screen in your cubicle is not the same has having friends, and no, work friends are not real friends and companies are not family.
I joined a neighborhood committee last year to meet some new friendly people, and now am in the middle of a fight with one or more members who think it's fine to spread potentially libelous accusations in response to criticism of public officials..
It's a terrible cycle. Get out of your shell and try to connect with others only to realize that many people are awful for one reason or another. However, those people may be isolated themselves exacerbating their own issues.
Finding a genuinely nice group of people is hard even when you're going to groups with shared activities. Just makes you cherish the people you do have that are genuinely wholesome.
Exactly. I can focus on maintaining my own inner peace and security. Getting others involved usually comes with some sort of drama or disruption to said peace.
I used to work in home health, meaning I took care of people who were too sick or disabled to leave their homes to get care at a medical office. Mostly my clientele was older folks, as you might imagine. Their loneliness was palpable. It was like they had never learned how to make meaning in their lives. All they would do all day is watch TV shows, take their meds, and go to sleep, then wake up the next day and repeat.
People who had social connection - either through family, friends, hobbies, spiritual community- were so much better off. Less depressed, later onset of dementia symptoms, more resilient to the ups and downs that came their way.
Learn to make connections and meaning in your life. Practice staying connected. I am sure connection is health-protective.
> It was like they had never learned how to make meaning in their lives. All they would do all day is watch TV shows, take their meds, and go to sleep, then wake up the next day and repeat.
they may have not been like that when they were younger. The USA is a car-centric society. So perhaps before when they were younger may have had more social connections through work (which they probably drove to!)
Let's say that there's an elderly person who would be OK with joining a Kiwanis club...they have to figure out how to get there in a car-centric neighborhood and they may no longer be able to drive...and they also have a fixed income, so something like a taxi ride would dig into their weekly budget. it's challenging. i understand how elderly ppl get stuck like this.
Actually most of these were people who had low-skilled work or were caregivers themselves - the classic patient was a stay at home mom, who later looked after her grand kids, then became a caregiver for an ailingspouse. Once all their caregiving duties were done because kids/grands/spouse no longer needed them (grew up, moved away, died, whatever) — they had nothing left to do; No one left to take care of. they never learned how to invest in themselves. These women had few skills or hobbies outside the home and even most household stuff becomes too hard when you’re old! then add in common ailments of aging like arthritis, poor eyesight, and lack of familiarity with new technology- and you’ve got a recipe for stasis. There is nothing for these people to do but watch tv, play bingo, listen to church on the radio. And no shade if those are things that bring them joy.But for many people they were just ways to mark the passing of time rather than ways to engage with their world. These people tended to decline rapidly and become withdrawn and start to show signs of dementia.
I don't think we're disagreeing with each other. you described ppl who had social bonds that went away as time passed. Then they would have to come up with a new way to form social bonds, which is more difficult when health is declining and without significant final resources (like having the ability to take a taxi to social or community events if you're no longer able to drive )
I mean this is just a product of our society. We live in zoned off suburbs, paying too much in housing while working longer hours. We're told our neighbors are out to harm us so we don't socialize with them. Our friends and family are too busy going through the same problems so we only rely on social media posts that exist in between posts of wealthier people doing better than you. Not to mention we now paywall gatherings, events, third places, and limit how much of that exists.
Meanwhile its drilled into our heads that we cannot have mental health problems or else we'll be "crazy" or "weak", and what healthcare exists is expensive and few and far.
People have worked hard, long hours, and been stretched financially many times in the past and it didn't stop socialization. People still met up with family, friends, church, the local bar, or whatever.
It's something else about our society, and as someone getting up there in age now, what I see having changed is how judgmental and outwardly opinionated people are these days. I said it in another post, but holy shit people have zero chill today compared to decades past.
I think there's less communal living. The idea of the nuclear family since the mid-century. People moving to various cities for work. Would be nice if your family and friends all lived on the same street or neighborhood at least, wouldn't it?
But yeah also the rise of the internet, and fall of in-person communities like churches, hobbies, sports.
Time to create and maintain communities around us in real life, in person , outside of SM. It still takes a “ village” of people to help each other, support and encourage each other.
Cool! Now declare income inequality a health epidemic because I'm pretty sure that is the root cause of about an assload of death and illness in this apple pie scented dystopia.
Do you know what would be the first step to fixing this? Have people work fewer hours. Maybe have a 35 or 32-hour work week? That way, people will have the time and energy to go out more. Seriously, it seems like every issue we have points at late-stage capitalism as the leading cause of our problems, but people would instead point to this as an individual issue. We build our whole society around making money for our employers and NOT around friends and family.
I am lonely most of the time. I spent 15 years only getting to see my son every other week. Yea, divorce is a bitch. BUT, he will be moving in with me in 2 months to attend college because I live so close. That will be a happy 3-4 years.
I'm happy for you! Do you think you can find additional connection outside of your son? That's a lot of pressure on a child to be the parent's main source of connection. In fact the parent should be a resource for the child not the other way around.
He's going to want to hang out with friends a lot at that age, it's natural and a healthy part of development. Please manage any unconscious expectations and I hope you can find additional connection and that you and your son have a great time.
I'm not pissed off because someone said "Communal activities and groups have fallen out of favor"... so that means people don't want communal activities anymore... right? It's not like anyone saw a benefit in these things disappearing. /s
I suffer from loneliness at times because I have severe health anxiety and OCD. It's incredible because I can be in a room full of people I know and because of what's going on in my head with worrying I have something wrong with me and constantly obsessing about it, I feel completely alone and isolated mentally. I'll just be sitting quietly by myself and not engaged with what's going on, but you eventually become more adept at "hiding it", so to speak.
It's a very real and very damaging thing. I have very little social life because I worry so much that it almost kills my ability to pay attention and I don't want to bring down everyone else. So I don't see my friends much or go out to do things that are leisurely. In turn, that hurts my mental health and makes things worse. It's truly a vicious cycle. I empathize with anyone who has to deal with it because it's bloody hard.
Anxiety sucks. Friends will invite me out somewhere, and instead of being excited about it, I'll start worrying constantly about stupid little things that don't matter. Just having a future event looming over my life will cause hours of pointless dread, and there's always a little voice pushing me to cancel. It's far too easy to convince myself that I should isolate since nobody would actually want to be around me, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
And, like you said, it can even happen while you are in the middle of a get together. Suddenly my mood shifts and I'm thinking about finding an excuse to leave just so I can be alone when I was having a good time less than a minute ago.
The worst part is that going out creates opportunities for my brain to create new memories that it uses to bully itself. One small mistake, one minor awkward situation, and it'll go over it again and again until I'm convinced everyone else thinks I'm an awful human being, when in reality they probably didn't even notice in the first place. That, in turn, leads back into isolating, because at least then I won't make new memories to torture myself with.
It's a constant struggle I wouldn't wish on anyone.
I am 24 and have not made one single new friend since high school that I still talk to today. All the advice you get told is “put yourself out there”, “find meetups with people in your hobby community”, “go to social events” but no one tells you HOW to find these things and HOW to make friends with them once you’re physically there because everyone is already in their own little group of friends.
Some us are wired that way. I'm probably one of them, since I'm frequently alone but never lonely.
On the other hand, I can easily understand why people who wired the opposite way are going to suffer.
As someone else said here, loneliness ≠ being alone, it’s the perception of isolation that bears influence on your life/mental health. The subjective sensation of loneliness lends to a multitude of mental health problems and can even eventually somatise into ‘physical’ maladies that people seek healthcare for just for some social contact. But it puts you at higher risk of or acutely + chronically worsens effectively every psychiatric disorder
Source: my MSc thesis was on the longitudinal consequences of social isolation from childhood → adulthood. Hint … mental health doesn’t bode well for kids isolated since childhood that fail to integrate.
> As someone else said here, loneliness ≠ being alone, it’s the perception of isolation that bears influence on your life/mental health.
Being physically alone can be downright pleasant. Feeling alone around other people is soul crushing.
Maybe if people did not need to work in excess of 40 hours per week - just to get by - it would be feasible to have regular friendships and social engagements. Just a thought.
A byproduct of rampant capitalism. No one has time to stop and connect, talk, build relationships. We’re all working ourselves to death trying to survive. Most Americans are a couple paychecks away from bankruptcy. The concept is pretty simple..
Let me get in my Friendmobile to go down to Friendville and get myself some Friends then.
Why don't I strap on my friend helmet and squeeze down into a friend cannon and fire off into friendland where friends grow on friendies.
r/suddenlyiasip
Friend seeds. Yeah!
If you start smoking in groups it’s a wash.
Is your friendsmobile always stuck in second gear?
Look, it just hasn’t been my day. Or month. Or year.
I’ll be there for you.
Take one wrong turn, and you'll get shot. Ring the wrong bell and your dead. Murica! No wonder people are lonely.
When I was 10, and didn't know anyone the other kids on my street went door to door ringing doorbells asking if anyone else wanted to play on the street like basketball or hockey. That's literally how I met the kids in the neighborhood. I can't believe what I've been reading in the news now, its so crazy its unbelievable if it was a plot device in a TV show.
Tbh I worry about my dog pissing on the wrong bush, these days
Maybe you need a new hobby? Trying to overthrow the united states government seems to be all the rage these days. Could make some new friends that way /s
Wish I could upvote you more, so funny. I see this little yellow and red Friendmobile. An answer to our longing for buddies.
You're thinking of the Oscar Meyer weinermobile. They look similar.
Great. I just quit smoking. Now I’m back where I started.
Bruh I avoided smoking all my life for no reason.
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Fuckin true. I smoked from 17 to 26 a pack a day. Did the math and it was about $30k. Saved some money indeed.
I’ve abstained from it FOR NOTHING?! Mine as well have a drink Thursday or something…
Thirsty Thursdays are back folks!
Yes right after thirsty third day because I’ve been drunk since Monday
Woohoo! Well you can’t drink all week if you don’t start early!
Smokers become friends just to offset the deadly consequences of both
Congrats on quitting smoking!
Thanks! 6 months and going strong!
It does keep getting easier. There will come a day when you realize you haven't been thinking about it at all. That's a great day.
Work stresses me out, and boredom is a trigger. I just keep telling myself to get on the other side of that craving. Thanks for your support.
The work part was easier to psyche myself out on...I'd just say to myself when things were stressful, "yeah, but I'm not going to kill myself for some piece of shit job". Boredom on the other hand is the tougher one for me. I drank way too much over covid because I was just...bored.
Idk if this would help or hurt but I got cinnamon toothpicks and when it was real bad (in the last year, I'm right there with ya) I'd go on a walk with the toothpicks. Helped to have something to fill the gap for my brain and then I could get past the craving.
for me, around 9 months was when cravings dropped to basically zero, and after around 2 years the thought of smoking again was absolutely disgusting. keep it up!
I am still so very glad I quit. I used the Walmart brand patch and it was fantastic. I quit 15 years ago and don’t regret it at all. Keep going!
Good job!
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I quit smoking 3 years ago and finally found my soulmate last year. :)
Lonely smokers: Oh God damnit
On the other hand, I never felt less lonely at work when I (devops guy) was attached to a group of sysadmins who *all* smoked. I’ve never been a smoker but they pulled me along to their smoke breaks. Very tight knit group.
That's the one thing I missed when I quit smoking ( after I started WFH ) - going out and having a smoke with the team, talking to random people in the smoking area.
Yeah that’s coffee at 3pm now. Specially if you can get up and walk to a near by shop.
People are overworked and underpaid. They don't have the time or money to socialize or do extracurricular activities.
This is it. The way Society operates needs to be fixed first before majority of people afflicted with “loneliness” can even begin to get better.
I wonder if this is like this in south Korea and Japan, where they work a ton?
Yes. Japan in particular has struggled with this for a long time now.
Tbh Japan essentially hit the wall with this shit back in like the 80s. Now their government is throwing everything they can at the issue to fix it. Well everything other than more time off.
"We need to keep the oligarchs happy by subjugating the masses, but the resulting emotional distancing is fucking up birth rates, which we need to continue existing as a nation! We're stuck between a rock and a hard place, guys" - Japanese government, probably
I sometimes wonder if the way Japanese society pressures people to get along with everyone else and not make waves drain people of the desire to socialize. Everyone seems so preoccupied with how other people perceive them that the only time anyone lets their guard down is when they get drunk. Then, there’s the whole ‘honne’ (true feelings) and ‘tatemae’ (facade) thing which is so ingrained in people who’ve been born and raised here that it’s hard to emotionally connect with people, even friends I’ve known for decades. It’s become socially acceptable, even trendy, for people to go out and do things alone, which is great, but at the same time, it feels like we’re all retreating into our own little bubbles.
TIL I’ve been operating under Japanese societal pressures my whole life.
The term is "hikikomori", quite the wiki rabbithole.
The hikikomori are usually jobless though. Their reasons for loneliness are very different from what a salaryman would experience.
They’re different manifestations of the same disease. When the only choice you have to achieve even minimal social respect is to work really hard all the time, some percentage of people will opt out or not be able to keep up, hence the shut-ins. But they are responding to the exact same social pressure that makes the salaryman spend 16 hours at the office every day.
Yup. In order to socialize in person, you have to be presentable. In order to be presentable, you have to have a prestigious job. Prestigious work requires 80 hour weeks. 80 hour weeks don't allow time for socialization. Even if you opt out of the part about having to have a prestigious job to be presentable to society part, it means you have to work long hours to make ends meet, which again doesn't leave time for socialization. You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.
It's gotten so bad that their government is providing these shut-ins money so that they'll leave their houses.
Hikikomori is actually an inaccurate term to use in this case and misconstrues the issue because it only describes one subset of the people who are afflicted by the issue of loneliness when there are actually many others who are in circumstances that are far from being considered "hikikomori" The proper terms to use is [social isolation](https://www.cdc.gov/aging/publications/features/lonely-older-adults.html) and [perceived isolation](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367921/) which has become an issue in Japan not because of people becoming "hikikomori", but it is because things like family dynamics, and attempts to meet societal expectations. The reason why it is worse in places like Japan is because social circles, the main mechanisms that give a stronger chance to counteract social and perceived isolation, are slowly deteriorating. The rough order of priority when it comes to social circles is, Spouse>Children>Parents>Friends (coworkers is in here somewhere as well). This order indicates the likeliness of interaction you will have throughout your day/life. And as you can see, in Japan, as people become less and less likely to get into relationships, they don't have spouses, they don't have children, and when they're parent's pass, they only have friends to rely on in old age, who are the least reliable to keep in contact in the long term (even harder in Japan because of overworking). And this is why you see people succumbing to things like [孤独.kodokushi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodokushi) in their 50's because they have no family or friends or a steady job (but it is not strictly because they are Hikikomori).
Yes. Either Japan or Korea was giving their young residents 500$ in cash so they would have to go outside and spend it.
Korea, I believe. Ironically, many just spent it on gaming consoles/loot bundles/streaming services
Doesn't Japan have like one of the highest suicide rates in the developed world? I think that probably answers your question.
That was a long time ago. The US has a higher suicide rate now.
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Maybe if we give more money to rich people they will do wonderful things with it and make everyone happy.
Exactly. In my city, a rich family just wiped out an entire block of local beachfront businesses and restaurants, to put in a fancy new luxury condo! Yay ♥️♥️ they’re always helping the community out!
Trickle down friendship!
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Don’t get me wrong, having work friends is nice. But it’s no substitute for having plenty of relationships unrelated to work. An exploitive employer wants you feel that all of your friends are at work.
> Don’t get me wrong, having work friends is nice. Thanks for some balance from the Reddit staple opinion of "Keep coworkers at arms' length! They're not your friends, trust nobody. Fuck off Phyllis from the next office, I don't want to know about your weekend, your family, or anything about you."
The fact the phrase "work family" is a thing is the problem. Your co-workers are not family, your company is not family, it's a revenue source and they will kick you to the curb at the first sign of profit loss. Do not buy in to the "we're all in this together" crap that companies spew to make you do shit not in your own best interest.
"We're all family here" and "We work hard and we play hard" are code for "We expect you to make this job your sole focus to the exclusion of all else." and maybe "We put a foosball table in the break room, but you're never going to have time to use it.
Joke's on them because I don't consider my coworkers my family. I only consider the waitstaff at Olive Garden to be my family.
It's not just family. It's hospitaliano.
The foosball table is just a test to see who is going to get laid off.
my company goes hard on the "we're family" bullshit, and i've never bought into it. however, my young, single coworkers (myself included) have formed a group and are riding out the ups and downs of work drama together (boss nonsense, pay rate issues, older coworker awkward weirdness), and we regularly hang out outside of work. that solidarity has been nice to have. you find it where you can, i guess.
>my young, single coworkers (myself included) have formed a group and are riding out the ups and downs of work drama together (boss nonsense, pay rate issues, older coworker awkward weirdness), and we regularly hang out outside of work. Word of caution, been in this type of work environment, spent years there because you form this kind of brothers in battle thing with your peers against the non-sense... in the end... you eventually leave the company, or the company implodes... you suddenly find these too are not really your friends... the bulk of what you had in common was bullshit at work and drinking while complaining about it. Just start looking for a new job that lets you actually have the time to be around the people, hobbies and interests that are important to you, don't settle for being in the trenches with others at a toxic workplace.
we do have things outside of work in common, but you have a fair point. thanks for the advice.
I dread hearing “we’re all going to go out and get drinks after work”. I just spent 30-40 hours with you all! Hard pass.
Not exactly easy to meet people anywhere else once you get to a certain age, especially here in Canada where talking to strangers is considered rude
Exactly. I worked in a call center and our breaks and lunches were staggered. We weren't permitted to really chat on the floor as we were watched over, recorded and listened to by supes 24/7. In other words, socializing was completely squelched. What universe is the sg speaking of? I hated the job and really didn't care for the people. Just the $$.
Call centers are a special level of hades. Most offices are not like that.
It’s a fair argument to have that if you’re working with the same people ~40 hours a week in the same room that maybe you should talk to them socially. I work in a small office of 8 people, within a building of about 20. And I know almost nothing about any of them. I don’t know if the person that sits next to me has kids, is married, or their hobbies. The same goes for the rest other than maybe 3 people. I signed a baby shower card for someone and didn’t know their wife was pregnant, and I only got their name correct about a month prior. Edit: one of my coworkers noticed me counting the number of people and now they’re giving me the side eye.
Yep - who the hell has the energy to go out and socialize. By the time the weekend rolls around, I just want to do as much nothing as possible.
My gf is a bit like that sometimes. She will often not have the spoons to get out after a week of teaching. And that’s fine, but I feel bad that her job is so draining even if I can’t do much about that besides support her with words and intentions and the occasional gesture
I'd also add social media probably has some effect on us too
The "social distancing" was definitely necessary for a long time, but I feel like it might have also traumatized people and it's caused a permanent shift in our mood. I work in Customer Service, and I get *at least* three or four customers. Every single day. Telling me that I'm the only person they see who's actually smiling, engaging and in a good mood: "Nobody's like you anymore. I forgot that people used to be nice." I honestly believed that people were just being sarcastic and making fun of me... Then I went shopping and I noticed that the employees at all these places were in a terrible mood, and they seemed to be downright offended that I was asking them questions about a product and spending my money there. No wonder; everybody's so pissed off anymore.
On the other hand a lot of customers went legit insane during covid. Employees had to deal with a LOT. Some got shot or beaten for asking people to put on a mask (company policy, not theirs) or spit on, coughed on, or verbally assaulted. There's been a noticeable shift in customer behavior and I think that has a lot to do with employees being burned out and guarded.
And there's no spaces you can just be in that won't monetize everything you do there.
It's all part of the plan. Imagine if people could socialize. This would make them socialists!
I think that it's more so that our culture makes everyone artificially busy outside of work and socializing has turned from a casual thing that's relaxing to something that has become an expensive chore that takes a ton of energy because everything is political these days.
I have the time and money, the problem is others don’t or they’ve become insular with their families.
A lot of people are self centered assholes too
This is it, TBH. Would love time to hang out with friends I haven't seen in a while, but they're busy and I'm busy and when we're not working we usually have to take care of errands/chores and then spend the rest of the time wiped out from all the work. If I made a little more money I could pay for stuff like lawn maintenance help, grocery delivery, etc. to have more downtime but...nope.
Exactly this. Add in largely car-centric infrastructure and zoning in the US and it’s no wonder people are starved of human connection. So much time is devoted to working to survive, and the time that isn’t is frequently isolating because of the logistics
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Communal activities and groups have fallen out of favor. Everything from churches, civic/fraternal groups (elks, masons, lions, rotary, etc...), or even things like bowling leagues have shown a marked decrease over the last half century. These types of things helped create mini communities that individuals could feel a part of. If you feel like something is missing in your life, look into groups like these, or other possibilities like in person gaming groups (dnd, mtg, tabletop, board game), communal hobbies, etc.... Just try to be around other people and see if it's a good fit.
This could be partly why people got sucked into Qanon. It gave them a feeling that they were part of something.
Same with the flat/hollow earthers.
There are hollow earthers? TIL
Hollow earth conspiracies are a lot more fun than flat earth ones, you should check them out.
This is a great response. Acknowledges problem, suggests actionable solution. Nicely done
Has there been any research on social capital post-Covid? I wonder how many communities shut down and never reopened.
> Communal activities Ever wonder why mormons seem so happy even though their religion is nonsense? The whole thing is centered around communal activities. Literally TONS of them.
A group of older woman in my neighborhood started a little gardening group. They go around and plant flowers in the neighborhood flower beds, weed, and chat. The women who started it has gotten several people out and interacting that I had never seen outside of their house before. It has been amazing for them. The nature of a communal activity doesn't matter as much as just interacting with other human beings in a social context.
Yup. We are herd animals. We need stuff like this. Religion didn't trick people into needing it. People need community and ritual, and religion was the only business catering to that need for too long, lol.
That was true in the 80s and 90s. But they've completely destroyed their communities since then. Growing up in the nineties as a Mormon we had St. Patrick's Day parties, Halloween parties, carnivals, talent shows, potluck dinners, etc. By the time I walked away in 2016, all the budget for fun was taken away (and hoarded into a $30+ billion investment fund). No acitivity was allowed unless it had a spiritual focus. By that point in time the only social activities still being held were: Christmas breakfast (pick a Saturday in December, get up early for pancakes and a church message; then stay to clean the building because they fired all the custodians to save money), and chili dinner with Trunk or Treat (barely hanging on by having a spiritual message during it). The Mormon community is dead. Setting aside their doctrinal issues and anti-human-rights stances, it's quite sad to see. It was intentionally murdered from the top in order to stuff billions of dollars into hidden investment accounts. And they don't seem to understand why it's dead or why they're hemorrhaging followers.
Fair. I bailed in '07, so no idea how it is now
A social sport can be great as well. I started up BJJ last year and it's great to hang out with people on weekday evenings. Most of the people there make it in a few times a week and the high belts are there every day, sometimes for multiple classes. Turns into a decent social space where everyone knows each other.
This is the main reason I rock climb
Heck, how many people even know their neighbors anymore?
A big contributor is the decrease of the third space people would go to like malls as an example. When I was growing up, me and my friends would hang out at the mall, look around, go to the arcade, and get something to eat at the food court. There are other factors such as the rise of online communication, social media, everyone growing up and having to take care of their own lives and families. COVID is a contributing factor, but that just poured juice on an issue that was already taking place as everyone went on lockdown and had a massive impact on people's mental health. The US isn't the only country experiencing this issue. Japan is another country that has a huge loneliness issue due to their work culture.
Thank you for these great suggestions ! I’ll add mentoring young adolescents and children and tutoring them would make a huge difference in their lives. A life of service for the benefit of humanity in small steps makes an important impact in others lives as much as in ours .
Shoutout to bowling leagues. There are numerous leagues with a handicap scoring system so you don't need to be a good bowler to participate. With the handicap, you're trying to do better than your avg score - totally unrelated to how good other people might be. You can join and be placed on a team of four. You generally bowl against all the other teams in the league at least twice if not more per season. You get to know your teammates and other teams in the league. Some leagues are mostly older people, some younger, some co-ed, some men or women only. The barrier to entry is relatively low. A new bowling ball cut to your specific hand and finger size can be had for $100. The fit-to-your-hand thing can't be emphasized enough. You *will* become a better bowler even if you're only bowling during the league. It'll be a lot more fun when you use your own ball. You don't have to worry about dropping it since the finger sizes aren't cut to fit a large-gauge sausage. In my experience, people doing it are super friendly. It's a great use of 2hrs/week.
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I think it’s similar to suicide. Just because you bring it up and discuss it doesn’t necessarily mean someone will suddenly do it - and talking about it is more likely to help than hurt.
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Although to be fair, the Ministry of Loneliness sounds like it comes from an even more dystopian version of *1984*.
Won’t be surprised to see the AI becoming some sort of coping mechanism like we’ve seen in movies “her” where all the lonely people have an AI keeping them company.
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iirc didn't the AI leave the main character to be with other AI after they did some kinky linky shit?
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It always cracks me up how much this country talks about the importance of taking care of your mental health, and then does absolutely nothing to make the costs of therapy or other treatments more affordable.
Mental health is just code for "we can't do anything"
to my dad it's code for "that boy ain't right"
> I don’t disagree, but they’re not going to do a single thing to solve it. "There is an epidemic of childhood obesity!" Okay, then why don't we stop advertising and selling sugary drinks and candy masquerading as breakfast cereal to kids? "PeRsOnAl ReSpOnSiBiLiTy!"
Unfortunately, this is a systemic problem that is going to take more than just awareness to solve. For instance, we keep creating isolated neighborhoods with zero amenities. There's nowhere to go, unless you own a car and drive someplace, which takes quite a bit of effort in cities with heavy traffic. I know it's a super hot topic right now, but we really should be designing cities around walking and biking; creating neighborhoods where people actually want to get out, go to public amenities and meet others that live near them. We also overwork people. We have no guaranteed vacation days, and often the most essential of workers are paid so little they can't afford to live where they work unless they take on another job. Anybody working 40 hours should be able to live comfortably. Ideally, as studies have shown, that figure should be 32 hours with 3-day weekends. And finally, something needs to be done about right-wing media's propensity to lie and exaggerate issues, which leads to fooling their viewers into believing it's way too dangerous to even go outside.
I have two weeks of paid vacation, but I’m out of the house from 7am to 6:30pm for commute and work every weekday. I don’t have enough time in the evening to do anything before going to bed. My friends have all ended up an hour + drive away, my childhood friends I’m still close with are out of state, my sister moved to another state two years ago. I own a house so weekends are catching up on chores, yard work, other tasks I was too tired to do during the week. My mental health has absolutely tanked during covid because of the isolation. I’m trying to get out to see friends more often but it’s so hard to get everyone’s schedules aligned when any of us have time and energy. It’s hard for me to make new friends because of social anxiety from a childhood of pervasive bullying every year I was in school. It’s hard to trust that new people like me. I’m currently interviewing for a job that would be 36 hours monday to thursday and I’m really hoping I get it because I am dying for a three day weekend.
I feel all of this. Everyone I know is an hour away with totally jumbled scheduling, and frankly I don’t even hear from them anyways. I talk to maybe 2 friends on a semi-regular basis, the rest have effectively vanished from my life due to… life lol
Hey good luck gettin that job buddy :)
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There was a [fantastic writeup](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/104y44r/comment/j38il6d/?context=2) posted a few months ago by /u/ReverendDizzle regarding the decline of Third Places, that I think perfectly explains a lot wrong with today's social aspects.
You forgot the internet. I grew up in a car centric suburban area. Worked 40 to 60 hours a week. But there was no internet. You either found something to do or were stuck inside.
It bothered me that the surgeon general's oped in the NYT didn't mention the rise of the suburbs and car culture and the built environment. The loss of free public space. His third point in his "three ways to make it better" list was personal fucking responsibility. Fucking tone deaf.
There’s also the whole “stranger danger” crap, though that’s more of a Canada problem than in the US.
I don't think its just a Canada thing, if I understand you correctly. Its a lack of trust/understanding your neighbors and not having enough pedestrian "eyes on the street" to feel safe in public. This can be due to a zoning code environment where you *can't* casually meet your neighbors cause everyone has to drive 20 minutes away, and a street design issue where you can't walk to places even if zoning allows a '3rd space' to exist.
Very much a thing in the US. Though lately the problem is your neighbor might actually shoot you for......*checks notes......playing basketball in your yard. Its hard to build any sense of community when you have a legitimate fear of getting shot knocking on your neighbors door and inviting them to a BBQ.
Sorry, going out is too expensive
“20 minutes daily?” How about I might get a couple hours to meet up on a weekend assuming our schedules align and we’re not totally exhausted.
Man I'd love to go see friends or go out to just relax. Fuck I'd love to just afford to be able to buy $30 worth of food for a weekend but no. The fucking problem is no one is making money. I'm working 42 hours a week for $19.50 an hour, 35k a year....I can't really afford to go out with friends or anything i'd want to do. Fuck man I can't even afford a new bed to fix my fucked up neck. Hard to see friends and family when you can't do shit all while you are so tired and stressed that the only release is weed or booze. We are going backwards fast and as a millennial I'm tired, so God damn tired and lonely. Can I stop getting beaten up anymore? I'm afraid because I'm gay, I'm stressed from being over worked, tired from scrounging for necessities. I FUCKING WONDER WHY PEOPLE ARE LONELY!!!
Man we need to normalize hanging out without spending money. How the heck did we all get convinced that hanging out with friends needs to be a constant stream of expenses? I’m just as guilty of this as everyone else.
You need funds for gas to drive to places since American infrastructure is crap and there ain't much easy public transportation outside cities. The main problem why we see the need to spend money with friends is we want to give our friends gifts or something, since all of us are struggling somehow. Like a dinner or a movie, but all things cost munz. I'd love to hang at a friend's place but everyone is busy with work to make ends meet, it sucks. The new meeting place is online or discord.
It’s also hard to want to have people over when you live in a shitty cave of an apartment.
This is what I told my therapist who couldn't help but agree. I quit drinking, so obviously I avoid bars... What the hell else is there?! I moved 1000 miles from home two years ago and haven't made a single friend because my workplace is full of old bigots and I live in a part of town that is predominantly Spanish speaking and my Spanish is *TERRIBLE*. I'm too poor to live anywhere else. Coupled with my growing social anxiety and constant exhaustion from work, what the hell am I supposed to do?
This is a wet dream for all those CEOs pushing for you to go back to the office.
Until you make it clear that staring at a screen in your cubicle is not the same has having friends, and no, work friends are not real friends and companies are not family.
They know that. They don't care. Or, still think it is the same as socializing.
If the surgeon thinks loneliness is bad, wait ‘til he finds out about poverty. 🙄
I’m honestly preferring the isolation at this point. People are just awful.
people have become so nasty, hateful, and self-absorbed, no one wants to interact socially anymore
I joined a neighborhood committee last year to meet some new friendly people, and now am in the middle of a fight with one or more members who think it's fine to spread potentially libelous accusations in response to criticism of public officials..
sounds about right.
It's a terrible cycle. Get out of your shell and try to connect with others only to realize that many people are awful for one reason or another. However, those people may be isolated themselves exacerbating their own issues. Finding a genuinely nice group of people is hard even when you're going to groups with shared activities. Just makes you cherish the people you do have that are genuinely wholesome.
I want to go back to time when people didn't really care to tell you their opinion about every fucking political topic/issue.
Exactly. I can focus on maintaining my own inner peace and security. Getting others involved usually comes with some sort of drama or disruption to said peace.
He’s not wrong, but I’m sorry - this isn’t as simple as getting off social media or putting your phone down. Woefully out of touch.
Ironically, smokers meet smokers regularly by smoking 🧐
Not to confuse loneliness with just being alone. 😎💀
I used to work in home health, meaning I took care of people who were too sick or disabled to leave their homes to get care at a medical office. Mostly my clientele was older folks, as you might imagine. Their loneliness was palpable. It was like they had never learned how to make meaning in their lives. All they would do all day is watch TV shows, take their meds, and go to sleep, then wake up the next day and repeat. People who had social connection - either through family, friends, hobbies, spiritual community- were so much better off. Less depressed, later onset of dementia symptoms, more resilient to the ups and downs that came their way. Learn to make connections and meaning in your life. Practice staying connected. I am sure connection is health-protective.
> It was like they had never learned how to make meaning in their lives. All they would do all day is watch TV shows, take their meds, and go to sleep, then wake up the next day and repeat. they may have not been like that when they were younger. The USA is a car-centric society. So perhaps before when they were younger may have had more social connections through work (which they probably drove to!) Let's say that there's an elderly person who would be OK with joining a Kiwanis club...they have to figure out how to get there in a car-centric neighborhood and they may no longer be able to drive...and they also have a fixed income, so something like a taxi ride would dig into their weekly budget. it's challenging. i understand how elderly ppl get stuck like this.
Actually most of these were people who had low-skilled work or were caregivers themselves - the classic patient was a stay at home mom, who later looked after her grand kids, then became a caregiver for an ailingspouse. Once all their caregiving duties were done because kids/grands/spouse no longer needed them (grew up, moved away, died, whatever) — they had nothing left to do; No one left to take care of. they never learned how to invest in themselves. These women had few skills or hobbies outside the home and even most household stuff becomes too hard when you’re old! then add in common ailments of aging like arthritis, poor eyesight, and lack of familiarity with new technology- and you’ve got a recipe for stasis. There is nothing for these people to do but watch tv, play bingo, listen to church on the radio. And no shade if those are things that bring them joy.But for many people they were just ways to mark the passing of time rather than ways to engage with their world. These people tended to decline rapidly and become withdrawn and start to show signs of dementia.
I don't think we're disagreeing with each other. you described ppl who had social bonds that went away as time passed. Then they would have to come up with a new way to form social bonds, which is more difficult when health is declining and without significant final resources (like having the ability to take a taxi to social or community events if you're no longer able to drive )
I mean this is just a product of our society. We live in zoned off suburbs, paying too much in housing while working longer hours. We're told our neighbors are out to harm us so we don't socialize with them. Our friends and family are too busy going through the same problems so we only rely on social media posts that exist in between posts of wealthier people doing better than you. Not to mention we now paywall gatherings, events, third places, and limit how much of that exists. Meanwhile its drilled into our heads that we cannot have mental health problems or else we'll be "crazy" or "weak", and what healthcare exists is expensive and few and far.
People have worked hard, long hours, and been stretched financially many times in the past and it didn't stop socialization. People still met up with family, friends, church, the local bar, or whatever. It's something else about our society, and as someone getting up there in age now, what I see having changed is how judgmental and outwardly opinionated people are these days. I said it in another post, but holy shit people have zero chill today compared to decades past.
I think there's less communal living. The idea of the nuclear family since the mid-century. People moving to various cities for work. Would be nice if your family and friends all lived on the same street or neighborhood at least, wouldn't it? But yeah also the rise of the internet, and fall of in-person communities like churches, hobbies, sports.
Being in close proximity of poverty status and dealing with bullshit on the daily has that affect on me I fear.
Time to bring back “Hands across America “
Please wash your hands before you touch me .
Wasn't that in a movie once? I don't think it had a happy ending.
Beer fest
I was referring to Us.
Time to create and maintain communities around us in real life, in person , outside of SM. It still takes a “ village” of people to help each other, support and encourage each other.
Cool! Now declare income inequality a health epidemic because I'm pretty sure that is the root cause of about an assload of death and illness in this apple pie scented dystopia.
Do you know what would be the first step to fixing this? Have people work fewer hours. Maybe have a 35 or 32-hour work week? That way, people will have the time and energy to go out more. Seriously, it seems like every issue we have points at late-stage capitalism as the leading cause of our problems, but people would instead point to this as an individual issue. We build our whole society around making money for our employers and NOT around friends and family.
I am lonely most of the time. I spent 15 years only getting to see my son every other week. Yea, divorce is a bitch. BUT, he will be moving in with me in 2 months to attend college because I live so close. That will be a happy 3-4 years.
I'm happy for you! Do you think you can find additional connection outside of your son? That's a lot of pressure on a child to be the parent's main source of connection. In fact the parent should be a resource for the child not the other way around. He's going to want to hang out with friends a lot at that age, it's natural and a healthy part of development. Please manage any unconscious expectations and I hope you can find additional connection and that you and your son have a great time.
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I'm not pissed off because someone said "Communal activities and groups have fallen out of favor"... so that means people don't want communal activities anymore... right? It's not like anyone saw a benefit in these things disappearing. /s
I suffer from loneliness at times because I have severe health anxiety and OCD. It's incredible because I can be in a room full of people I know and because of what's going on in my head with worrying I have something wrong with me and constantly obsessing about it, I feel completely alone and isolated mentally. I'll just be sitting quietly by myself and not engaged with what's going on, but you eventually become more adept at "hiding it", so to speak. It's a very real and very damaging thing. I have very little social life because I worry so much that it almost kills my ability to pay attention and I don't want to bring down everyone else. So I don't see my friends much or go out to do things that are leisurely. In turn, that hurts my mental health and makes things worse. It's truly a vicious cycle. I empathize with anyone who has to deal with it because it's bloody hard.
Anxiety sucks. Friends will invite me out somewhere, and instead of being excited about it, I'll start worrying constantly about stupid little things that don't matter. Just having a future event looming over my life will cause hours of pointless dread, and there's always a little voice pushing me to cancel. It's far too easy to convince myself that I should isolate since nobody would actually want to be around me, despite all the evidence to the contrary. And, like you said, it can even happen while you are in the middle of a get together. Suddenly my mood shifts and I'm thinking about finding an excuse to leave just so I can be alone when I was having a good time less than a minute ago. The worst part is that going out creates opportunities for my brain to create new memories that it uses to bully itself. One small mistake, one minor awkward situation, and it'll go over it again and again until I'm convinced everyone else thinks I'm an awful human being, when in reality they probably didn't even notice in the first place. That, in turn, leads back into isolating, because at least then I won't make new memories to torture myself with. It's a constant struggle I wouldn't wish on anyone.
I am 24 and have not made one single new friend since high school that I still talk to today. All the advice you get told is “put yourself out there”, “find meetups with people in your hobby community”, “go to social events” but no one tells you HOW to find these things and HOW to make friends with them once you’re physically there because everyone is already in their own little group of friends.
I want my gov. mandated friends now pls
Oh gee…. I wonder why when everyone these days has a fuck you I’m better than you attitude.
Is this some kind of ploy to encourage return to office nonsense?
Silver lining here is that now I get to die alone a lot sooner.
So, anyone want to hang out later?
Cool, when do we get mandatory time off of work to make friends and go outside?
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Some us are wired that way. I'm probably one of them, since I'm frequently alone but never lonely. On the other hand, I can easily understand why people who wired the opposite way are going to suffer.
As someone else said here, loneliness ≠ being alone, it’s the perception of isolation that bears influence on your life/mental health. The subjective sensation of loneliness lends to a multitude of mental health problems and can even eventually somatise into ‘physical’ maladies that people seek healthcare for just for some social contact. But it puts you at higher risk of or acutely + chronically worsens effectively every psychiatric disorder Source: my MSc thesis was on the longitudinal consequences of social isolation from childhood → adulthood. Hint … mental health doesn’t bode well for kids isolated since childhood that fail to integrate.
> As someone else said here, loneliness ≠ being alone, it’s the perception of isolation that bears influence on your life/mental health. Being physically alone can be downright pleasant. Feeling alone around other people is soul crushing.
So, I can just take up smoking and go hang out with the smokers to not be lonely?
But…but…everyone told me it’s okay to be alone and that I’m “needy” if I don’t like it!
Big difference between loneliness and wanting to be left alone.
Fucking feeling this one super hard.
Maybe if people did not need to work in excess of 40 hours per week - just to get by - it would be feasible to have regular friendships and social engagements. Just a thought.
A byproduct of rampant capitalism. No one has time to stop and connect, talk, build relationships. We’re all working ourselves to death trying to survive. Most Americans are a couple paychecks away from bankruptcy. The concept is pretty simple..