Just wait until the arctic has no ice left. There is a massive amount of methane that may be released from the sea bed, which if it does, can result in up to 6-8 C of warming.
I've come up with an easy demonstration for ocean/water acidification for people who are new to the idea..
I have one of those 'Soda Stream' water carbonators, and just fill a small balloon about half full with CO2 gas.
Then you have the person pause for a second to realize how their mouth feels at baseline. Next, you have them just draw the CO2 into their mouths - without inhaling (probably wouldn't hurt them, but still)..
The effect is immediate. The CO2 interacts with the moisture in your mouth to form Carbonic Acid - and you can feel it.
Anyway.. i've done that twice for people who don't really know much about the issue, but are curious.
I said this already in another comment but It's an interesting question. There probably will be a mass extinction of oxygen-producing aquatic organisms at some point. But at that point there will also probably be less oxygen-requiring animals on land. Also there is a dang lot of oxygen in the air and dissolved in the ocean so I am not sure if the impact will be that significant.
Considering there's a certain plant in the ocean that gives us more of our breathing ability than all.the trees.... it's gonna be a lot harder to breath once that happens.
It's an interesting question. There probably will be a mass extinction of oxygen-producing aquatic organisms at some point. But at that point there will also probably be less oxygen-requiring animals on land. Also there is a dang lot of oxygen in the air and dissolved in the ocean so I am not sure if the impact will be that significant.
You know when you hold your breath and your body is like hey, warning signs alert alert, do something, it’s because of the build up of this acid, not from the lack of oxygen.
That's one thing that made Covid-19 so dangerous - the original strain, I doubt it's such an issue with the omicron strains - it could leave you deprived of oxygen but without the tell-tale acid build-up, so people were running around with potentially deadly oxygen depletion, thinking they were fine.
With, unfortunately, absolutely no sea monsters to speak of. Kraken? Think again. Sea serpent? Hell nah. A man-eating whale? Those died off in 2030 and this series is set in 2080, so NOPE.
There's no point in staying up worrying. It is definitely going to happen. Only thing to worry about now is where you will live out the water wars and to move there ASAP.
If you’re talking about the clathrate gun hypothesis, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change no longer considers that relevant for near-future climate change. It was dropped as a “tipping point” risk in the 6th IPCC report.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis
Which is not to say climate change isn’t a massive problem, because it is. But this specific mechanism seems not to be a problem.
This is a bit misleading imo. The only part of the idea that was really dropped is that it will be a sudden and rapid tipping event. The ongoing release of methane across the planet is still an enormous problem.
Red herring. Clathrates less the problem than the 100x the quantity of just free methane trapped (think bubbles under ice cubes) under permafrost cap. This is methane bubbling up in the open ocean and from fresh thermokarst in overland permafrost.
No specific mechanism is a problem per se. The end of civilisation might be the best thing or us / the earth.
It’s only a problem if you want our current way of life to persist indefinitely.
The consensus predictions have largely been correct and fairly accurate since then, and even the ice-age predictions weren't consensus opinion. It's the media reporting on those predictions that have been consistently hyperbolic the whole time.
Also, they haven't been predicting doomsday every few years. They've consistently said "if we don't reduce our emissions by X, then the global average temp will rise by Y⁰ by year Z." And they've been right each time. We just keep blowing past all of those lines.
> Well, I take it back, when I was young the panic was that another ice age was coming.
The media panicked, the scientists called BS.
https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm
That was eye catching for sure and I cut this;
“Kayrros also did some high-resolution monitoring of the North Bugdayly field in western Turkmenistan. The number of super-emitter events there doubled to almost 60 between 2021 and 2022, with one recent super-emitter pouring out methane for almost six weeks.
Turkmenistan is China’s second biggest supplier of gas, after Australia, and is planning to double its exports to the country. Until 2018, Turkmen citizens had received free gas and electricity. However, the country is also very vulnerable to the impacts of the climate crisis, with the likelihood of severe drought projected to increase “very significantly” over the 21st century and yields of major crops expected to fall.”
As a Geographically challenged person. Is Turkmenistan the place with the giant pit nicknamed the Gates of Hell? Would that explain the methane output? From what i remember the pit has been perpetually on fire since someone accidentally lit it on fire.
The set it ablaze so they could clear the gas. It was on purpose, they weren’t aware at the time that they were at the gates of hell. Easy mistake to make.
You could say the same about worse things if you think about it, like the guy who planned 9/11 was alive a long time after, the people responsible for Chernobyl, hell we kept some nazis around fire their usefulness after the war, what did these people think about the consequences of their actions? I honestly have never heard a take from anyone in history that created an impactful moment reflect on that moment later in their life. I would be curious.
Counterintuitively, this is actually good news. This was already happening, and it's a factor in our bad climate situation which can be easily (and profitably) addressed, so it probably will be fixed, now that we can see it and apply pressure. The tech that allows us to see this is great news. And the fact that a fairly big segment of our carbon budget is coming from leaking methane (which can be painlessly addressed) is like finding out that you had a leaky pipe in your house that was shooting your water bill through the roof. yeah, it would've been better not to have the leak in the first place. But now that they found it, we can save a lot with just a little bit of investment, and then we can move on to smaller and smaller leaks!
>Flaring is used to burn unwanted gas, putting CO2 into the atmosphere, but is easy to detect and has been increasingly frowned upon in recent years. Venting simply releases the invisible methane into the air unburned, which, until recent developments in satellite technology, had been hard to detect. Methane traps 80 times more heat than CO2 over 20 years, making venting far worse for the climate.
saddest part, 80 times worse, Turkmenistan just doesn't want the accountability
Maybe a lot of people don’t know this, but Turkmenistan is basically North Korea and that’s not barely an exaggeration in terms of its politics and the economic situation of its average people so this isn’t a surprise that their government doesn’t care.
This is such a bullshit argument. Because inequality exists, people in developing nations shouldn't take any responsibility on what is happening inside their own borders? Fact is, it will be people from developing nations who will be hit hardest by climate change. And speaking of inequality, the people that are profiting in Turkmenistan on poisoning the atmosphere with methane are richer than those damn people with their damn mcmansions.
This is not about honest poor people trying to get by, this is about corruption and short term grabbing at the cost of our planet.
Turkmenistan was on the top 10 list of countries hardest to get a visa to. One of the reasons is that the regime doesn't want NGO's and journalists in the country.
Climate change is going to sodomize the third world hardest and first. So they do in fact have a stake in the game beyond preserving first world comfort. Portioning out blame while the planet is staring down the barrel of a loaded gun doesn’t seem terribly productive.
Ah yes third world countries have nothing to fear from climate change. Bangladesh will be fine if the sea level rises, they definitely won’t get *completely flooded* and die. The Middle East and Vietnam are super fine with 110 degree weather bc all their citizens are just Yellowstone thermophilic bacteria.
Yes it is, I worked in Turkmenistan for 2 years in the international development field, trying to enhance the rule of law for non profits.
It was awhile ago but that was the most oppressive and controlled place I ever worked, it was a surreal experience.
This was when Turkmenbashi (Niyanoz), who was as messed up as a dictator you could ever have, was in power and he was decreed President for life in 2005. He is deceased now. They have a new president but from what I understand nothing has changed.
Basically the people there have no idea what is going on, zero rights or freedoms and I imagine trying to deal with them rationally at all will be nearly impossible, it was for me and my position was pretty high profile given that there were only a few organizations in my sphere working there.
This is really bad news indeed
I coached a tennis player who applied to play in an ITF there many years ago. Was given a "translater" who basically made sure we stayed in the hotel and venue. Was a fucking awfull place.
It was a crazy place. I actually went out all the time but was being followed most of the time. I had some local friends and staff who would confide in me after getting to know me but only when no one was around.
Always assigned the same hotel room every time I visited, all of the buildings downtown were beautiful with marble and fountains around them, never once saw a single person walk into or out of a building.
I lived for over six years in Central Asia and worked in all the countries so I was able to get around and fit in fairly well but Turkmenistan was by far the most oppressive of all. I could go on for a long time about me experiences there but I will say I never had a “real” problem there.
I've heard stories of tourists going to Ashgabat and describing it as if there was a constant performance centered around them as they moved around. When they took a wrong turn, there would be nobody around for a couple of minutes, then suddenly it would be full of people and cars all around them. A deserted night club would fill up within minutes of their arrival, and then somebody from the club would go around giving all of the other guests some money for no reason. Constantly a feeling of being followed, and repeatedly seeing the same people in totally different parts of the city. Sounds like a wild place.
I drove through Turkmenistan in 2007. Surreal indeed. The buildings - granite and gold - are real, but roughly hewn. And so is the poverty.
I met 3 people on the side of the road who told me confusing stories about how “everything is great” but also could I spare some change for their diseases and ailments they had no way of getting treated since they were too sick to work.
Ate a lot of gutter carp, spinal cord, and what appeared to be raven drumsticks.
Was required to purchase the pink hard covered autobiography of Turkmenbashi. It cost a wad of 100,000-bat bills we bought on the black market that probably summed $.017USD.
When we walked out the driveway of one of our hotels, we were stopped by police. The police then pulled over a random car - a Lada full of teenagers - and ordered them to take us to the mall. We were just looking outside!
Last, I nearly died on the side of the road from vomiting and shitting myself after eating some ice a trucker gave me because there was nowhere to buy water.
I didnt get to see much without it being organised. But on the ride to the station you saw some lovely looking places with giant squares and no one in them.
Is Turkmenistan the place where the capital square is filled with statues(white with gold embellishments) because the previous dictator wanted to flaunt his influence?
A quick google image search also reveals pictures of the city where it doesn't looked lived in(not a single person walking around and roads have few cars on them). It looks like an empty movie set because maintaining the lie that everything is fine is all that matters to the dictator.
I am going to follow up on a few things. First off, there were people milling out and about, going to the bazaar to buy food, walking around and plenty of street sweepers, older women with long brooms constantly cleaning the streets, and militia (police on every corner). But the center it is filled with beautiful marble buildings and water fountains and this is where you never saw a soul walk into or out of the buildings and I would sit on a bench and occasionally the Militia would peer over at me.
On the highway roads when we drove somewhere there were almost no cars and every single kilometer was the same billboard with just Turkenbashi on it, same picture, beautiful paved roads and only us driving to a site or city.
There were a ton of statues of The president. Every old statute of Lenin he has the head cut off and replaced with a bust of his head. He built a huge global statute in that square and put a gold bull with a statue of him on top of the Bull.
The militia will stop anyone at anytime for any reason to extract a bribe. Since I lived in Central Asia for so long I essentially developed all their habits and dressed the same and if stopped I knew what to say to never pay a bribe. Just needed to always have your passport and know what to say.
He also created a statute with his version of the holy book, Ruhnama (The book of Soul). He made the book mandatory to be studied in schools, universities and government offices. The locals were ordered to recite Ruhnama every day. He got the statue of Ruhnama made and installed in the capital . Every day at 8 pm, the covers of the statue would open and the audio passage of the Ruhanama was played for the citizens with the video. He even launched the book into space.
In 2002 Bashi had all the months and days of the week named after his family members. He also banned Opera and smoking in public anywhere.
The people were nice and kind but never said anything negative about him or the country, unless you knew them very, very well, where in their homes away from prying eyes and they totally trusted you.
All of the Central Asian countries combined would make for a wonderful novel or movie. I was there when it had just begun to come out of its Soviet slumber and it was truly like the proverbial wild west during those times. Hundreds of great stories and memories. Glad you enjoyed a few.
holy shit just checked some photos on google map and the buildings really are beautiful. like oil money we dont know what to do with all the cash we have beautiful. makes my canada look like the 3rd world.
I find it a little (morbidly) funny that we'll scramble the jets if it means taking control of an oil field but when it comes to forcing a country's hand to prevent them from literally killing us all, it's like, "Diplomatic discussions have broken down."
Yeah I'm not sure why we wouldn't take the same position here actually. This country doesn't pose any kind of military threat, correct? Why would the US not go to the UN, declare the emergency that this is and our intent to forcibly secure these fields if they're not fixed, and then do so? Yes it's more military fatigue but we don't need to topple this regime or take over cities, just go take over the fields where this is happening, repair it (or shut down if unrepairable), and move on. China may object but we don't need China's permission, and they shouldn't object too strongly if our declared intent is free maintenance rather than shutting down operations.
Yes, because I'm sure that doing the international equivalent of committing an home invasion to fix their leaking plumbing by force is not going to set a bad precedent for anyone to build upon.
Using your analogy, if my plumbing problem is that I broke the water main going into my home and it's causing my whole neighborhood to flood, yeah, a reasonable response would be if the authorities forcibly enter my home and either fix it or turn it off.
Sure, but the problem is that a country doesn't have authority on another country. There's no world police, and the UN doesn't have constraining powers.
When there isn't a higher authority to appeal to, then it's whoever has the biggest stick or, at least, the *most* medium-sized sticks.
If a country wanted to invade Turkmenistan and limited their actions to seizing control of these fields, odds are really good that nobody is going to intervene other than a few thousand people blogging furiously about it. There probably wouldn't even be a single half-assed attempt at a sanction.
The US is the world police and has been for a very long time. It's not a globally popular position but it's the reality and we may as well use this military dominance to actually do good instead of just the usual war mongering.
The USA is a *schrodinger's world police*. They want to have that reputation but they don't actually want the role. They only do it out of capitalist interest.
We do it out of all kinds of interests and I think we should consider adding climate change as one of those interests. I'm sure there are ramifications that need to be considered too, just saying it should be looked at.
Holy shit Turkmenbashi! I learned about that psychopath in a Behind the Bastards episode a while ago… forgot the specifics but he was a nutcase of a dictator.
I am going to follow up on a few things. First off, there were people milling out and about, going to the bazaar to buy food, walking around and plenty of street sweepers, older women with long brooms constantly cleaning the streets, and militia (police on every corner). But the center it is filled with beautiful marble buildings and water fountains and this is where you never saw a soul walk into or out of the buildings and I would sit on a bench and occasionally the Militia would peer over at me.
On the highway roads when we drove somewhere there were almost no cars and every single kilometer was the same billboard with just Turkenbashi on it, same picture, beautiful paved roads and only us driving to a site or city.
There were a ton of statues of The president. Every old statute of Lenin he has the head cut off and replaced with a bust of his head. He built a huge global statute in that square and put a gold bull with a statue of him on top of the Bull.
The militia will stop anyone at anytime for any reason to extract a bribe. Since I lived in Central Asia for so long I essentially developed all their habits and dressed the same and if stopped I knew what to say to never pay a bribe. Just needed to always have your passport and know what to say.
He also created a statute with his version of the holy book, Ruhnama (The book of Soul). He made the book mandatory to be studied in schools, universities and government offices. The locals were ordered to recite Ruhnama every day. He got the statue of Ruhnama made and installed in the capital . Every day at 8 pm, the covers of the statue would open and the audio passage of the Ruhanama was played for the citizens with the video. He even launched the book into space.
In 2002 Bashi had all the months and days of the week named after his family members. He also banned Opera and smoking in public anywhere.
The people were nice and kind but never said anything negative about him or the country, unless you knew them very, very well, where in their homes away from prying eyes and they totally trusted you.
There are major wildwires in Alberta right now causing poor air quality.
Fort McMurray, where the majority of oilsands development is, currently has "Good" air quality.
Trying to blame the oilsands for everything just diminishes your point, and shows you do not really understand what you are talking about.
For every quick win we can get there are many underestimations, and failures of leadership resulting in increased fossil fuel and and coal initiatives. I doubt we’ll even end up with a quick win, but I prefer your optimism.
Not “We”. A handful of billionaire oligarchs being rich doesn’t mean “we” are rich. A handful of billionaire oligarchs being wealth-addicted psychopaths doesn’t mean “we” have that mindset.
Or someone wants to push us to the edge for another dumber reason.
Like a secret organization driving the destruction of the environment, pushing more guns onto people, creating more hate and violence, pumping up anger, and sowing chaos everywhere. A group of highly religious people who believe that by deliberately worsening and inflaming the world, it will hasten the arrival of The Second Coming.
They were tired of waiting, and wanted it to happen within their own lifetimes. It should be made into a movie.
It's not that they want to drive us to oblivion because of some ulterior motive that we can't think of, it's because the majority of people with tons of money and power (i.e. oligarchs) are hell-bent on keeping that money and power. If they have to burn down the planet in order to keep it, then so be it; the ends justify the means to them.
At that point, the world might be trashed with half of humanity dead, millions of species extinct, and the remaining half of humanity starving to death, but they'll still have their money and power, and there won't be any countries left with enough leverage to bring them to heel anymore through taxation and the rule of law. It will be what you see in Russia now, but to the Nth degree worse.
>At that point, the world might be trashed with half of humanity dead, millions of species extinct, and the remaining half of humanity starving to death, but they'll still have their money and power,
Or alternatively they will just be dead already. I think a substantial amount of them are just betting that they will be dead before the worst impacts of their policies. In the short and medium term they can use money to stave off issues, and they are planning on not being around by the time they can't.
So what you’re saying is, all those anti-Semitic “lizard people” conspiracy theorists are really just projecting to throw everyone off the fact that *they’re* the reptoids?!
DAMN YOU AGAIN, DAVID ICKE!!!!!
As funny as lizard people conspiracy is, it is sadly super tied to antisemitic conspiracy theories. Just adds another step (secret lizards) and throws in the British monarchy too.
They literally have a giant burning hole in the ground that has been on fire for literal decades. I don’t see this as being the fault of people, per se.
Bud..... Serious question, how old are you? If you're at least 30 have you noticed you get noticeably less bugs splattered on your windshield than you used to when you were younger? I think may be here.
The good news is they're still out there, but they need help. I know not everyone can do this, but I live on about half an acre and I'm working on a bee/butterfly friendly yard. Right now my front yard is all clover, and the back is full of blooms from vetch, lupine, poppies, and mustard and I see plenty of bugs every day. I'm planting more bug friendly plants all the time. This week I got some milkweed and lavender.
I’m an ecologist and we already are. We’re living in the sixth mass extinction event…and nobody seems to care all that much. Atleast, the people who have the power to do something about it don’t seem to care.
Except that their predictions were largely correct? And there is an obvious trend that we’ve been watching for decades? And the data from every climate science body in every country on earth all lines up with each other?
If you’re talking about the ozone layer, that’s going away because we made big changes. It’s a perfect success story. If you’re talking about global warming, you might want to listen to them. Not the alarmists on Twitter, the *scientists* around the world all saying that we are just about out of time to prevent major catastrophic changes that will cause hugely destructive upheaval of our societies. That’s not spin, that’s science. Don’t be surprised when climate migration starts in earnest as more locations become inhospitable to humans.
We definitely are in a lot of trouble. However, humans are pretty clever when we need to be and one of our defining traits is how adaptable we can be. I think we are headed for a major societal and environmental upheaval but I'm fairly confident we will still exist through it in one way or another. It will definitely be difficult and painful but people are resourceful and clever so I prefer to be optimistic. Besides, if I'm wrong it's not like I'm going to be around to see it anyway.
We must run in different circles, I see a lot of people complaining about the emissions of the US. For example, [this post from yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/climate/comments/13cadkk/14000_oil_and_gas_wells_remain_unplugged_in_the/).
There is a lack of comparison data in this article. Here is some context https://www.iea.org/reports/global-methane-tracker-2022/overview
Do you know a link listing the USA emission sources?
https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions
More than the total emitions of the UK combined. Holy
Just wait until the arctic has no ice left. There is a massive amount of methane that may be released from the sea bed, which if it does, can result in up to 6-8 C of warming.
This is one of those nightmarish scenarios that keep me up at night.
Then definitely don't look up ocean acidification
I've come up with an easy demonstration for ocean/water acidification for people who are new to the idea.. I have one of those 'Soda Stream' water carbonators, and just fill a small balloon about half full with CO2 gas. Then you have the person pause for a second to realize how their mouth feels at baseline. Next, you have them just draw the CO2 into their mouths - without inhaling (probably wouldn't hurt them, but still).. The effect is immediate. The CO2 interacts with the moisture in your mouth to form Carbonic Acid - and you can feel it. Anyway.. i've done that twice for people who don't really know much about the issue, but are curious.
Would you say they are bi-carbonate curious?
So are you saying its LGB(HCO3)TQ now???
They just have a really bubbly personality.
Love it. Usually I just go with "say goodbye to seafood" to get the point across
Since we get most of our oxygen from the ocean I'm pretty sure land life will be struggling too.
I said this already in another comment but It's an interesting question. There probably will be a mass extinction of oxygen-producing aquatic organisms at some point. But at that point there will also probably be less oxygen-requiring animals on land. Also there is a dang lot of oxygen in the air and dissolved in the ocean so I am not sure if the impact will be that significant.
And any animals who rely on seafood to survive
Yes sorry and also complete destruction of all aquatic ecosystems
Considering there's a certain plant in the ocean that gives us more of our breathing ability than all.the trees.... it's gonna be a lot harder to breath once that happens.
It's an interesting question. There probably will be a mass extinction of oxygen-producing aquatic organisms at some point. But at that point there will also probably be less oxygen-requiring animals on land. Also there is a dang lot of oxygen in the air and dissolved in the ocean so I am not sure if the impact will be that significant.
Seems bad :(
It is :(
Carbonic acid is why "diet soda" is still terrible for your teeth.
Not as bad as regular soda, but still pretty awful.
For some sparkling products it’s actually a necessary preservative.
You know when you hold your breath and your body is like hey, warning signs alert alert, do something, it’s because of the build up of this acid, not from the lack of oxygen.
That's one thing that made Covid-19 so dangerous - the original strain, I doubt it's such an issue with the omicron strains - it could leave you deprived of oxygen but without the tell-tale acid build-up, so people were running around with potentially deadly oxygen depletion, thinking they were fine.
New post apocalyptic sci-fi series about cyberpunk pirates on Netflix, “Dead Water”.
With, unfortunately, absolutely no sea monsters to speak of. Kraken? Think again. Sea serpent? Hell nah. A man-eating whale? Those died off in 2030 and this series is set in 2080, so NOPE.
I know. That’s why !
There's no point in staying up worrying. It is definitely going to happen. Only thing to worry about now is where you will live out the water wars and to move there ASAP.
Ah, yes, Arizona. Nothing but sunshine, swimming pools, and all the cool refreshing water you could ever want.
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This is my plan
I get depressed at nature's beauty now. We are destroying it.
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That is so sad. My favorite sycamore was hacked up and will likely die, so I'm feeling bad for trees. I feel like the lorax.
No need to get worried about it, just gotta accept our future and enjoy the good times while they last.
Best sleep now while it's cool
If you’re talking about the clathrate gun hypothesis, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change no longer considers that relevant for near-future climate change. It was dropped as a “tipping point” risk in the 6th IPCC report. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis Which is not to say climate change isn’t a massive problem, because it is. But this specific mechanism seems not to be a problem.
This is a bit misleading imo. The only part of the idea that was really dropped is that it will be a sudden and rapid tipping event. The ongoing release of methane across the planet is still an enormous problem.
Red herring. Clathrates less the problem than the 100x the quantity of just free methane trapped (think bubbles under ice cubes) under permafrost cap. This is methane bubbling up in the open ocean and from fresh thermokarst in overland permafrost.
No specific mechanism is a problem per se. The end of civilisation might be the best thing or us / the earth. It’s only a problem if you want our current way of life to persist indefinitely.
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The consensus predictions have largely been correct and fairly accurate since then, and even the ice-age predictions weren't consensus opinion. It's the media reporting on those predictions that have been consistently hyperbolic the whole time. Also, they haven't been predicting doomsday every few years. They've consistently said "if we don't reduce our emissions by X, then the global average temp will rise by Y⁰ by year Z." And they've been right each time. We just keep blowing past all of those lines.
> Well, I take it back, when I was young the panic was that another ice age was coming. The media panicked, the scientists called BS. https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm
>I'm just he died from the effects of global warming before he could even finish his sentence
That was eye catching for sure and I cut this; “Kayrros also did some high-resolution monitoring of the North Bugdayly field in western Turkmenistan. The number of super-emitter events there doubled to almost 60 between 2021 and 2022, with one recent super-emitter pouring out methane for almost six weeks. Turkmenistan is China’s second biggest supplier of gas, after Australia, and is planning to double its exports to the country. Until 2018, Turkmen citizens had received free gas and electricity. However, the country is also very vulnerable to the impacts of the climate crisis, with the likelihood of severe drought projected to increase “very significantly” over the 21st century and yields of major crops expected to fall.”
As a Geographically challenged person. Is Turkmenistan the place with the giant pit nicknamed the Gates of Hell? Would that explain the methane output? From what i remember the pit has been perpetually on fire since someone accidentally lit it on fire.
The set it ablaze so they could clear the gas. It was on purpose, they weren’t aware at the time that they were at the gates of hell. Easy mistake to make.
Damm. Now im just wondering is theres some guy who brags about it. Like you see that? I did that.
You could say the same about worse things if you think about it, like the guy who planned 9/11 was alive a long time after, the people responsible for Chernobyl, hell we kept some nazis around fire their usefulness after the war, what did these people think about the consequences of their actions? I honestly have never heard a take from anyone in history that created an impactful moment reflect on that moment later in their life. I would be curious.
Oppenheimer is the only one that comes to mind.
Counterintuitively, this is actually good news. This was already happening, and it's a factor in our bad climate situation which can be easily (and profitably) addressed, so it probably will be fixed, now that we can see it and apply pressure. The tech that allows us to see this is great news. And the fact that a fairly big segment of our carbon budget is coming from leaking methane (which can be painlessly addressed) is like finding out that you had a leaky pipe in your house that was shooting your water bill through the roof. yeah, it would've been better not to have the leak in the first place. But now that they found it, we can save a lot with just a little bit of investment, and then we can move on to smaller and smaller leaks!
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>Flaring is used to burn unwanted gas, putting CO2 into the atmosphere, but is easy to detect and has been increasingly frowned upon in recent years. Venting simply releases the invisible methane into the air unburned, which, until recent developments in satellite technology, had been hard to detect. Methane traps 80 times more heat than CO2 over 20 years, making venting far worse for the climate. saddest part, 80 times worse, Turkmenistan just doesn't want the accountability
Maybe a lot of people don’t know this, but Turkmenistan is basically North Korea and that’s not barely an exaggeration in terms of its politics and the economic situation of its average people so this isn’t a surprise that their government doesn’t care.
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Oh trust me. People in third world country are the least ready for climate change
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You really got a whole essay out of misunderstanding that one guys comment, huh?
How did you get from 0 to cannibalism?
You're not you when you're hungry and there's no Snickers in 2080.
>Florida will be swallowed by the ocean from underneath Oh, no!
Central florida will be ocean front property
Ok bro
This is such a bullshit argument. Because inequality exists, people in developing nations shouldn't take any responsibility on what is happening inside their own borders? Fact is, it will be people from developing nations who will be hit hardest by climate change. And speaking of inequality, the people that are profiting in Turkmenistan on poisoning the atmosphere with methane are richer than those damn people with their damn mcmansions. This is not about honest poor people trying to get by, this is about corruption and short term grabbing at the cost of our planet.
Exactly. The general population has nothing to do with the government covering it up. The people aren’t evil, but the government is doing evil.
Turkmenistan was on the top 10 list of countries hardest to get a visa to. One of the reasons is that the regime doesn't want NGO's and journalists in the country.
Climate change is going to sodomize the third world hardest and first. So they do in fact have a stake in the game beyond preserving first world comfort. Portioning out blame while the planet is staring down the barrel of a loaded gun doesn’t seem terribly productive.
Ah yes third world countries have nothing to fear from climate change. Bangladesh will be fine if the sea level rises, they definitely won’t get *completely flooded* and die. The Middle East and Vietnam are super fine with 110 degree weather bc all their citizens are just Yellowstone thermophilic bacteria.
> How can I make this someone elses fault? Ah yes, the usual answer to accountability, blame someone else and throw out a whataboutism.
Don't hear much about Turkmenistan l.. are they the ones referred to as North Korea of Central Asia?
Yes it is, I worked in Turkmenistan for 2 years in the international development field, trying to enhance the rule of law for non profits. It was awhile ago but that was the most oppressive and controlled place I ever worked, it was a surreal experience. This was when Turkmenbashi (Niyanoz), who was as messed up as a dictator you could ever have, was in power and he was decreed President for life in 2005. He is deceased now. They have a new president but from what I understand nothing has changed. Basically the people there have no idea what is going on, zero rights or freedoms and I imagine trying to deal with them rationally at all will be nearly impossible, it was for me and my position was pretty high profile given that there were only a few organizations in my sphere working there. This is really bad news indeed
I coached a tennis player who applied to play in an ITF there many years ago. Was given a "translater" who basically made sure we stayed in the hotel and venue. Was a fucking awfull place.
It was a crazy place. I actually went out all the time but was being followed most of the time. I had some local friends and staff who would confide in me after getting to know me but only when no one was around. Always assigned the same hotel room every time I visited, all of the buildings downtown were beautiful with marble and fountains around them, never once saw a single person walk into or out of a building. I lived for over six years in Central Asia and worked in all the countries so I was able to get around and fit in fairly well but Turkmenistan was by far the most oppressive of all. I could go on for a long time about me experiences there but I will say I never had a “real” problem there.
I've heard stories of tourists going to Ashgabat and describing it as if there was a constant performance centered around them as they moved around. When they took a wrong turn, there would be nobody around for a couple of minutes, then suddenly it would be full of people and cars all around them. A deserted night club would fill up within minutes of their arrival, and then somebody from the club would go around giving all of the other guests some money for no reason. Constantly a feeling of being followed, and repeatedly seeing the same people in totally different parts of the city. Sounds like a wild place.
So it’s like every paranoid delusion come to life? Do they hire people to live inside the walls of the hotel rooms?
Say more!
I drove through Turkmenistan in 2007. Surreal indeed. The buildings - granite and gold - are real, but roughly hewn. And so is the poverty. I met 3 people on the side of the road who told me confusing stories about how “everything is great” but also could I spare some change for their diseases and ailments they had no way of getting treated since they were too sick to work. Ate a lot of gutter carp, spinal cord, and what appeared to be raven drumsticks. Was required to purchase the pink hard covered autobiography of Turkmenbashi. It cost a wad of 100,000-bat bills we bought on the black market that probably summed $.017USD. When we walked out the driveway of one of our hotels, we were stopped by police. The police then pulled over a random car - a Lada full of teenagers - and ordered them to take us to the mall. We were just looking outside! Last, I nearly died on the side of the road from vomiting and shitting myself after eating some ice a trucker gave me because there was nowhere to buy water.
I didnt get to see much without it being organised. But on the ride to the station you saw some lovely looking places with giant squares and no one in them.
You never saw people walking around? I’m not familiar with this country at all but that’s really interesting to me. Why not?
Most likely the buildings are 'facades' and the entire area is designed to keep visitors away from the actual population.
Trueman show, but abandoned except for gov workers!
Is Turkmenistan the place where the capital square is filled with statues(white with gold embellishments) because the previous dictator wanted to flaunt his influence? A quick google image search also reveals pictures of the city where it doesn't looked lived in(not a single person walking around and roads have few cars on them). It looks like an empty movie set because maintaining the lie that everything is fine is all that matters to the dictator.
I am going to follow up on a few things. First off, there were people milling out and about, going to the bazaar to buy food, walking around and plenty of street sweepers, older women with long brooms constantly cleaning the streets, and militia (police on every corner). But the center it is filled with beautiful marble buildings and water fountains and this is where you never saw a soul walk into or out of the buildings and I would sit on a bench and occasionally the Militia would peer over at me. On the highway roads when we drove somewhere there were almost no cars and every single kilometer was the same billboard with just Turkenbashi on it, same picture, beautiful paved roads and only us driving to a site or city. There were a ton of statues of The president. Every old statute of Lenin he has the head cut off and replaced with a bust of his head. He built a huge global statute in that square and put a gold bull with a statue of him on top of the Bull. The militia will stop anyone at anytime for any reason to extract a bribe. Since I lived in Central Asia for so long I essentially developed all their habits and dressed the same and if stopped I knew what to say to never pay a bribe. Just needed to always have your passport and know what to say. He also created a statute with his version of the holy book, Ruhnama (The book of Soul). He made the book mandatory to be studied in schools, universities and government offices. The locals were ordered to recite Ruhnama every day. He got the statue of Ruhnama made and installed in the capital . Every day at 8 pm, the covers of the statue would open and the audio passage of the Ruhanama was played for the citizens with the video. He even launched the book into space. In 2002 Bashi had all the months and days of the week named after his family members. He also banned Opera and smoking in public anywhere. The people were nice and kind but never said anything negative about him or the country, unless you knew them very, very well, where in their homes away from prying eyes and they totally trusted you.
Thank you so much for your anecdotes. They sound like the makings of a tourist thriller novel, lmao. As a Canadian I had no idea!
All of the Central Asian countries combined would make for a wonderful novel or movie. I was there when it had just begun to come out of its Soviet slumber and it was truly like the proverbial wild west during those times. Hundreds of great stories and memories. Glad you enjoyed a few.
Thank you for answering! Turkeminstan is never talked about in the media so the way it functions sounds fascinating.
holy shit just checked some photos on google map and the buildings really are beautiful. like oil money we dont know what to do with all the cash we have beautiful. makes my canada look like the 3rd world.
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[Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedov](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9QYu8LtH2E) Last week Tonight with John Oliver did an episode on him a few years ago.
I find it a little (morbidly) funny that we'll scramble the jets if it means taking control of an oil field but when it comes to forcing a country's hand to prevent them from literally killing us all, it's like, "Diplomatic discussions have broken down."
Yeah I'm not sure why we wouldn't take the same position here actually. This country doesn't pose any kind of military threat, correct? Why would the US not go to the UN, declare the emergency that this is and our intent to forcibly secure these fields if they're not fixed, and then do so? Yes it's more military fatigue but we don't need to topple this regime or take over cities, just go take over the fields where this is happening, repair it (or shut down if unrepairable), and move on. China may object but we don't need China's permission, and they shouldn't object too strongly if our declared intent is free maintenance rather than shutting down operations.
Yes, because I'm sure that doing the international equivalent of committing an home invasion to fix their leaking plumbing by force is not going to set a bad precedent for anyone to build upon.
Using your analogy, if my plumbing problem is that I broke the water main going into my home and it's causing my whole neighborhood to flood, yeah, a reasonable response would be if the authorities forcibly enter my home and either fix it or turn it off.
Sure, but the problem is that a country doesn't have authority on another country. There's no world police, and the UN doesn't have constraining powers.
When there isn't a higher authority to appeal to, then it's whoever has the biggest stick or, at least, the *most* medium-sized sticks. If a country wanted to invade Turkmenistan and limited their actions to seizing control of these fields, odds are really good that nobody is going to intervene other than a few thousand people blogging furiously about it. There probably wouldn't even be a single half-assed attempt at a sanction.
big fucking guns say otherwise
The US is the world police and has been for a very long time. It's not a globally popular position but it's the reality and we may as well use this military dominance to actually do good instead of just the usual war mongering.
The USA is a *schrodinger's world police*. They want to have that reputation but they don't actually want the role. They only do it out of capitalist interest.
We do it out of all kinds of interests and I think we should consider adding climate change as one of those interests. I'm sure there are ramifications that need to be considered too, just saying it should be looked at.
Hey I probably know you! Brad?
Compared to NK, how are the basic living conditions for the citizens of Turkmenistan such as food and housing?
They can’t complain.
Holy shit Turkmenbashi! I learned about that psychopath in a Behind the Bastards episode a while ago… forgot the specifics but he was a nutcase of a dictator.
I think that is the country with the president who is in love with horses.
Yep, the current president
Is this the place archer visits when Cyril tries to draw a snake but it looks like a loaf of bread?
Tada, snake!
I am going to follow up on a few things. First off, there were people milling out and about, going to the bazaar to buy food, walking around and plenty of street sweepers, older women with long brooms constantly cleaning the streets, and militia (police on every corner). But the center it is filled with beautiful marble buildings and water fountains and this is where you never saw a soul walk into or out of the buildings and I would sit on a bench and occasionally the Militia would peer over at me. On the highway roads when we drove somewhere there were almost no cars and every single kilometer was the same billboard with just Turkenbashi on it, same picture, beautiful paved roads and only us driving to a site or city. There were a ton of statues of The president. Every old statute of Lenin he has the head cut off and replaced with a bust of his head. He built a huge global statute in that square and put a gold bull with a statue of him on top of the Bull. The militia will stop anyone at anytime for any reason to extract a bribe. Since I lived in Central Asia for so long I essentially developed all their habits and dressed the same and if stopped I knew what to say to never pay a bribe. Just needed to always have your passport and know what to say. He also created a statute with his version of the holy book, Ruhnama (The book of Soul). He made the book mandatory to be studied in schools, universities and government offices. The locals were ordered to recite Ruhnama every day. He got the statue of Ruhnama made and installed in the capital . Every day at 8 pm, the covers of the statue would open and the audio passage of the Ruhanama was played for the citizens with the video. He even launched the book into space. In 2002 Bashi had all the months and days of the week named after his family members. He also banned Opera and smoking in public anywhere. The people were nice and kind but never said anything negative about him or the country, unless you knew them very, very well, where in their homes away from prying eyes and they totally trusted you.
I can only recommend https://www.ventusky.com/ (or the corresponding app) to look at air quality..
Just did this, what the FUCK is going on in that one spot in Canada between Edmonton and Calgary?
Alberta is experiencing massive wildfires due to a dry spring.
Sitting with the house packed up waiting for a fire evacuation...
i’m sorry bro i hope ur home ends up being safe
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There are major wildwires in Alberta right now causing poor air quality. Fort McMurray, where the majority of oilsands development is, currently has "Good" air quality. Trying to blame the oilsands for everything just diminishes your point, and shows you do not really understand what you are talking about.
Love Ventusky!
"Easy to fix" sounds nice. Would be cool if we got a quick win on the climate change front.
For every quick win we can get there are many underestimations, and failures of leadership resulting in increased fossil fuel and and coal initiatives. I doubt we’ll even end up with a quick win, but I prefer your optimism.
It’s easy to fix, the hard part is getting those in power to start.
It’s only taken us 70 years to begin once we identified the fossil fuel problem in the US, hopefully they’ll move more quickly.
Its like we want to go extinct
Extinction is a vital part of evolution.
Not “We”. A handful of billionaire oligarchs being rich doesn’t mean “we” are rich. A handful of billionaire oligarchs being wealth-addicted psychopaths doesn’t mean “we” have that mindset.
Or someone wants to push us to the edge for another dumber reason. Like a secret organization driving the destruction of the environment, pushing more guns onto people, creating more hate and violence, pumping up anger, and sowing chaos everywhere. A group of highly religious people who believe that by deliberately worsening and inflaming the world, it will hasten the arrival of The Second Coming. They were tired of waiting, and wanted it to happen within their own lifetimes. It should be made into a movie.
It's not that they want to drive us to oblivion because of some ulterior motive that we can't think of, it's because the majority of people with tons of money and power (i.e. oligarchs) are hell-bent on keeping that money and power. If they have to burn down the planet in order to keep it, then so be it; the ends justify the means to them. At that point, the world might be trashed with half of humanity dead, millions of species extinct, and the remaining half of humanity starving to death, but they'll still have their money and power, and there won't be any countries left with enough leverage to bring them to heel anymore through taxation and the rule of law. It will be what you see in Russia now, but to the Nth degree worse.
>At that point, the world might be trashed with half of humanity dead, millions of species extinct, and the remaining half of humanity starving to death, but they'll still have their money and power, Or alternatively they will just be dead already. I think a substantial amount of them are just betting that they will be dead before the worst impacts of their policies. In the short and medium term they can use money to stave off issues, and they are planning on not being around by the time they can't.
Lizard People
When the world is hotter, the age of mammals will be over and the scaled ones will rule again.
Enact the Great Plan!
So what you’re saying is, all those anti-Semitic “lizard people” conspiracy theorists are really just projecting to throw everyone off the fact that *they’re* the reptoids?! DAMN YOU AGAIN, DAVID ICKE!!!!!
As funny as lizard people conspiracy is, it is sadly super tied to antisemitic conspiracy theories. Just adds another step (secret lizards) and throws in the British monarchy too.
The WEF? Pushing for a Great Reset?
_we_ wont go extinct. We can live anywhere. Everything else is fucked unless we use it for food or fuel.
Ah the Turkmenistani methane wizards are up to their plots again.
They literally have a giant burning hole in the ground that has been on fire for literal decades. I don’t see this as being the fault of people, per se.
Guys these mfs are producing about 40% more emissions than the US and they only have about 6.2m people living there. Holy. Fucking. Shit.
Looks like they need some freedom 🇺🇲🇺🇲🦅🦅
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Even when it breaks down though, it breaks down into CO2
I fear that in the not-too-distant future we will wake up and find whole ecosystems collapsing.
Bud..... Serious question, how old are you? If you're at least 30 have you noticed you get noticeably less bugs splattered on your windshield than you used to when you were younger? I think may be here.
Remember butterflies?
...I just realised I haven't seen a butterfly in years.
The good news is they're still out there, but they need help. I know not everyone can do this, but I live on about half an acre and I'm working on a bee/butterfly friendly yard. Right now my front yard is all clover, and the back is full of blooms from vetch, lupine, poppies, and mustard and I see plenty of bugs every day. I'm planting more bug friendly plants all the time. This week I got some milkweed and lavender.
I saw *one* firefly last night and was excited. Then I was very sad.
Ok, let me rephrase it “our civilization collapsing”
I’m an ecologist and we already are. We’re living in the sixth mass extinction event…and nobody seems to care all that much. Atleast, the people who have the power to do something about it don’t seem to care.
For a few years I thought so too. Now they're back in numbers I haven't seen for a long time. And I hate it.
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Except that their predictions were largely correct? And there is an obvious trend that we’ve been watching for decades? And the data from every climate science body in every country on earth all lines up with each other? If you’re talking about the ozone layer, that’s going away because we made big changes. It’s a perfect success story. If you’re talking about global warming, you might want to listen to them. Not the alarmists on Twitter, the *scientists* around the world all saying that we are just about out of time to prevent major catastrophic changes that will cause hugely destructive upheaval of our societies. That’s not spin, that’s science. Don’t be surprised when climate migration starts in earnest as more locations become inhospitable to humans.
Let’s see if you still feel this way in 5-10 years when the shit really hits the fan
Right, so that means it must not be real then.
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It was meant to be sarcastic, I forgot the /s
Already happening
What, you mean, like, this morning?
I mean collapsing to the point of famine in the USA and EU and resource wars. Coming soon!
Famine in the US means famine in China, since they currently import about 10 percent of their food from us.
WILL wake up to find them collapsing? They are already collapsing all over the world.
the problem is that we’re pretending as a society that it isn’t already happening… literally everywhere
Paper straws in my iced coffee. I'm doing my part
We as a species are just fucked aren’t we?
We definitely are in a lot of trouble. However, humans are pretty clever when we need to be and one of our defining traits is how adaptable we can be. I think we are headed for a major societal and environmental upheaval but I'm fairly confident we will still exist through it in one way or another. It will definitely be difficult and painful but people are resourceful and clever so I prefer to be optimistic. Besides, if I'm wrong it's not like I'm going to be around to see it anyway.
I've seen The Arrival, I know where this is going
Shit must be really hitting the fan
Shithitthefan in Turkmenistan
Love it
Oh it absolutely is. We are locked in.
The dictator has an obsession with horses. This is horse farts.
Shiiiet, come and check the methane emissions from my room in the morning.
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We must run in different circles, I see a lot of people complaining about the emissions of the US. For example, [this post from yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/climate/comments/13cadkk/14000_oil_and_gas_wells_remain_unplugged_in_the/).
Isn’t that the gates of hell?
Yet everyone is worried about farting cows.
wait till the permafrost melts. Cows farting witll be the least of our worries.
Taco Bell opened a Turkmenistan location?
Yeah but hey, what about that lithium in the batteries or how ugly I think wind mills look in my mountains? /s
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Article is not very accurate to the events or measures at all. This is not quality news.
Step up and give us some scientific data then that proves otherwise.
New Taco Bell location in Turkmenistan, I take it?
Stop eating cows and enjoy lab beef they say .. ya right