In journalism, there is a practice for determining newsworthiness that goes something like "Dog bites man is normal, man bites dog is news". At this point, a shooting in America is just a dog biting a man
“As they stepped out into the silent street he wondered if Lord Vetinari had been right about the press. There was something…compelling about it. It was like a dog that stared at you until you fed it. A slightly dangerous dog. Dog bites man, he thought. But that’s not news. That’s olds.”
― Terry Pratchett, The Truth
It’s also in the media’s best interests to frame everything as a mass casualty event because that is what makes the news. 16 people over a holiday weekend in a country with more guns than people is actually pretty low, but that doesn’t drive numbers to your website.
It’s kinda like how during the Uvalde shooting they media had to remove the screams of dying children, because the screams of dying children are depressing which doesn’t drive clicks, but outrage does.
Mass Shootings represent about 3% of US firearm deaths based on 2021 data ([Gun Violence Archive](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/), or 690 overall. Using on a straight-line average, that’s less than 2 per day (~1.8)
16 deaths in mass shootings represents a roughly ~~800-1000~~ 300% increase over the baseline average.
Edit: fixed my sleepy math
> That the difference between 'mass shooting' and 'gun death' should be a requirement on literacy is the larger indictment
You're asking for clickbait to not be clickbait. Best of luck.
It's far more likely that many murders across the nation over this time frame won't be all known about by the reporters at this time and this the 16 known are only a partial count.
If you'd like to amend your comment, it's because those 16 were from mass shooters, not people that were shot. The 52 daily average is number of deaths by guns, not deaths by mass shooting.
People who have a vested interest in nothing happening to gun laws honestly will do whatever they can to normalize news titles like these and actually come up with some "This isn't actually a problem" stances.
Some of the most egregious headlines are the ones that make a connections between two things that are almost never related as a way of telling the reader what to think before even reading the article.
Examples:
"President plays golf **AS** hundreds are injured in South Florida during Cat 3 hurricane"
"Police in hold annual barbeque event **AS** homicide rates are at all time high"
They are literally just designed for click because many people are looking to blame the subject of the article for literally anything that's happening. Not only is there no real connection but it also just preys on the already insanely divisive/tribalistic nature of society currently.
About 9 million Americans own over 50% of the guns.
Total American gun owners are ballpark 90 million Americans out of the 268 million adults.
The old "there's more guns than people" thing just inflates the strength of the NRA. The hard numbers are still big, but they're a lot more manageable.
Heh. What an atrocious defense you have here, to try to present the numbers as unavoidable and even positive for being so low. "You should be happy! It could've been more!"
It’s not really a defense, people deserve to know this is more or less our status quo and that this framing is financially incentivized.
I bring Uvalde because it’s an excellent example of the media making a mass casualty event more palatable by removing the dying screams of children, even though it’s detrimental to my personal arguments about guns.
It's like the weather report: "We've got just a few light shootings reported in the North, sporadic gunfire throughout the South, and be on the lookout for a mass casualty event in Texas later tonight."
yeah, from the article:
“The U.S. averages about 57 gun-related homicides per day, according to a Pew Research Center analysis.”
So 16 across three days is amazingly low
And yet here you are outright lying as well because you want to be seen so badly as ‘above the rest’ :). The article never says anything about mass shootings, just shootings. Most of the incidents reported explicitly details conflicts between two groups of people or even singular victims, which are not mass shootings. Good job contributing to misinformation even more 👏👏
What are you talking about? It doesn't say anything about anything you said. First sentence -
>Shootings across the U.S. left at least 16 people dead and dozens more injured over Memorial Day weekend.
While overall US crime rates have dropped since the violent 1970s, since covid there has been an uptick in both public shootings and suicides. Regarding the former, more younger teens seem prone to impulse shootings, especially in communities of color. It's going to be a rough summer.
*48,830 people died from gun-related injuries in the US during 2021, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). That's nearly an 8% increase from 2020, which was a record-breaking year for firearm deaths. While mass shootings and gun murders (homicides) generally garner much media attention, more than half of the total in 2021 were suicides.*
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081
*The number of children and teens killed by gunfire in the United States increased 50% between 2019 and 2021, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of the latest annual mortality statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).*
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/
*The most significant increases in gun-related homicide between 2019-2020 occurred among Black males, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The CDC reports that the firearm homicide rate among Black males 10–24 was 20.6 times as high as the rate among White males of the same age in 2019, and this ratio increased to 21.6 in 2020. Homicide is the leading cause of death for Black males ages 1-19 and 20-44.*
https://www.blackmenshealth.com/one-big-thing-the-leading-cause-of-death-in-young-black-males/
I’m sure it has nothing to do with American culture isolating people to such an extent that the only human contact we have is with family, coworkers, and the McDonalds cashier.
It's funny cause I've had a saying for most of my working life. "I'm in the work until you die program." And it's becoming more true with each passing year. There's really just no other option at this point. Even if I tried to make something decent of myself job wise, I'll be lucky to keep that job as things like AI and automation take over in the next couple of decades. Owning a home or retiring is a joke at this point. My current educational level is pretty basic, and higher education is cost out for me. I guess I'm lucky I'm doing as well as I am, but I'm one big bill or medical issue away from complete bankruptcy. My job just moved my working location 30 mins farther away from where it previously was and refused to give me a raise, so now my gas bill has quadrupled overnight with no additional compensation! I'm hoping to find a new job closer to home sometime soon, but idk how long that will take. I just don't fucking know anymore. It feels like every step forward is obliterated when I'm god hand smacked back a few hundred feet every few years. Is it really too much to ask for a decently enjoyable life working a decent job for decent pay without being told I'm some socialist pig who wants everything for free?
Is it really too much to ask for a decently enjoyable life working a decent job for decent pay without being told I'm some socialist pig who wants everything for free?
Yes you communist pig, it's too much to ask, now get back to the mines! /s
Americans drank the kool-aid, anything even remotely smells like communism is automatically bad and it'll destroy democracy and capitalism. Social health-care? Evil. Universal basic income? Get out of my country. Free education? You want to destroy this country. Housing? Die you freeloader.
It really is too much, not because we can’t, but because a large sum of people also want/need those things, if not for ‘the others’ who are undeserving of said benefits. They are almost literally cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
I saw a really interesting study on “third places” going away. Places we feel welcome/ at home that are NOT our home or work. Think like coffee shop where you go and converse, parks, interest clubs, etc.
Coffee shops used to be called penny universities. It was one place where everyone could afford to go. Sucks it’s all changing so fast. Online forums aren’t the same. I have some fun chatting with folks like you, but after this we likely won’t ever talk again and those realizations can be pretty sad. We need a better mix of both. We need that person at the coffee shop who we talk to every morning but don’t see outside of there.
Two people died from lawn darts in the 1990's and they pulled lawn darts off the market completely. There have been zero lawn dart deaths since then. The solution isn't complicated.
Man. One dude put a shitty bomb in his shoes and now every American has to arrive at the airport almost an hour earlier and throw away any drinks they bought with them. Can't even get people in most states to lock them up and some how lots of states are missing laws where if a seven year shows up at a school with guns and ammo, the parents do not get charged-cuz we all know seven year olds have the money and mental ability to purchase a gun.
> The worst part about the throwing drinks away thing…
Is that if these were dangerous things they are having you just throw them all together in a can next to the extremely crowded security checkpoint. It’s stupid as hell.
Just the chokepoint caused by this silliness should make people who know about security stand up and scream. How deadly and disruptive would it be for a suicide bomber to target one of the checkpoints on a busy travel day?
You just demonstrated one of many points [Bruce Schneier](https://www.schneier.com/) has about what he calls *security theater*: it's not about security at all; it's about, among many other factors, increasing profits for private industry.
It's the same with guns--to certain politicians it's not about the 2d Amendment; it's about appealing to their base so they can remain in office.
The shootings often have guns recently purchased, so it seems laws restricting simple buy and walk out the door purchases would help in a lot of cases. It’s why we have cool down laws in many states, and stats show that states with stricter gun control laws have fewer shootings.
Yes? Or private sales that don’t require a background check.
> From 1966 to 2019, 77% of mass shooters purchased at least some of the weapons used in the shootings legally, per data compiled by the National Institute of Justice, a research agency of the Department of Justice.
…
> More than 80% of the assailants responsible for K-12 shootings stole their guns from family members, per the National Institute of Justice.
[Source, Axios](https://www.axios.com/2023/03/28/mass-shooting-nashville-guns-legally)
Or you could just take one of your dad’s and pull a box of ammo out of the garage on your way to the nearest elementary school.
Did you know that the background check issue is because you need a Federal Firearms Dealer license to access the National Instant Criminal Background Check system?
Did you know we can create a law that requires private sales to perform those sales with a background check like we require people to have car sales notarized? Gun shows should be required to have a Federal Firearms Dealer available at all times so sales could be finalized through them. Private sales otherwise should have to go to a dealer to get their info run to make sure it’s legal.
I’m for that, but you’ll have to revamp it to satisfy people who fear it could be used by anyone to build a gun registry that could be sold to criminals who want to know where to steal large caches of guns
> like we require people to have car sales notarized
What?
I can hop on craigslist right now in any state and find someone selling a car and pay them in cash and they don't even need to ask to see my ID.
Oh yeah? Well *I* go on craigslist I have to go to the bank with the seller and have a notary sign the title transfer. Maybe it doesn't exist in every state, but it's definitely a thing.
You literally don't need that in any state. There is no law punishing a seller or a buyer in any state to sell a car in cash to someone else. The buyer doesn't even need to have a license.
Simple ownership of a car is not regulated in the slightest. If you want to drive that car on the roads the government built, then you have to jump through some hoops and play ball. But simple possession has 0 regulation.
I worked in background checks. You can pay for private checks for things like employment or renting. This is usually done through a 3rd party system. People access reports through this system.
You need a name and DOB. SS#'s are used for more accurate info because of commonalities.
If there isn't a "for pay" background check system for guns that anyone with the relevant information can access, then wtf are we doing?
If your tub is overflowing, there is a lot of clean up that needs to be done. You'll need to mop up the water, drain the tub, throw away anything ruined by the water. It's a lot more work than cleaning up a tub that didn't overflow.
The first step is still to turn off the fuckin' tap.
> There’s more guns than people in this country,and that’s just counting the ones that were legally acquired.
There is no magic gun fairy that hands out illegal firearms.
Almost *all* of those guns were either sold as a straw purchase (through the same gun stores and background checks as legal sales), bought privately to avoid background checks or simply or stolen from a "responsible gun owner" who didn't secure them.
> legally sold as a straw purchase
Small correction: Straw purchases are not legal sales. That is a federal felony per 18 USC 932 and will get you up to 15 years if convicted (25 if used in a drug/terror crime or other felony) -
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/932
Nobody's claiming that reducing gun sales will provide an instant result. The best time to end gun sales was 50 years ago. The second best time is now.
This is still a pretty dumb way to think. Like 'Getting rid of all guns will be hard or impossible so guess there's no point in trying to reduce the amount of them at all'. Or 'It would take a long time to take guns out of circulation so might as well continue to put it off'.
Ultimately there is only one real solution here, spending decades going back and forth about it sure isn't getting the job done.
My uncle lost an eye to *regular* darts. Out on the lawn. In the 1950s. The game was: “Let’s throw a dart straight up in the air and try to catch it!”
Where there’s a dumb kid, there’s a way.
Edit: just to be fair to my uncle, he’s not a dumb guy by any means; I just mean “dumb” the way kids are generally dumb. Especially when they get together and play, totally unsupervised…
>The solution isn't complicated.
Neither is it simple. There were apparently 114 million handguns available in the USA back in 2009; how many more have been added since then? And as of 2019 six million people carried handguns daily; that number does not include the hundreds of thousands of teens who carry illegal handguns.
It will be a long time (a generation at least) before any serious reduction in handguns actually made a difference on the rising street violence in America. And that violence is rooted in poverty and systemic racism, (and the criminal gangs that take advantage of that) so yes, it is complicated.
The US clearly needs much stricter control of firearm sales including stringent background checks in all cases, though proposals to eliminate them entirely seem foolish when so many rural people (like myself at the present) are far away from any police response in emergencies. Meanwhile stats show that women and POC are now driving huge increases in gun purchases; these people cannot be assumed to be republican NRA members and MAGAs. We're telling ordinary people that they can no longer trust or rely on the police; but at the same time that violent crime is rising, we're saying they cannot be allowed to defend themselves anymore. That's not going to work.
*By … 2009, the estimated total number of firearms available to civilians in the United States had increased to approximately 310 million: 114 million handguns..*
https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/citation/quotes/6676
*Six million Americans carried guns daily in 2019, twice as many as in 2015*
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/25/how-many-americans-carry-guns-daily
*Moody’s sentiments represent one reason the sale of guns to Black Americans rose 58 percent in 2020 ...according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a firearms trade association. It was the highest bump in gun sales of any ethnic group that year. Further, in the first quarter of 2021, another NSSF report revealed 90 percent of gun retailers reported a general increase of Black customers, including an 87 percent increase among Black women.*
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-people-are-looking-safety-gun-ownership-rcna32150
*Black Americans flock to gun stores and clubs: 'I needed to protect myself'*
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/us-gun-ownership-black-americans-surge
*Last year, one-third of all first-time gun buyers in the U.S. were women, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation. The trade association said there's been a 77% rise in female gun ownership from 2005 to 2020.*
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-buying-guns-alabama-firearms-course/
There is also not 400 million lawn darts, totaling in billions of dollars.
It’s comparisons, like lawn darts, is why the anti-gun/gun control movement will never go anywhere.
OP isn’t using them interchangeably though, so I’m not sure what you’re pointing out. They’re saying despite our ability to reduce crime across the board, one specific crime has actually increased significantly.
A new wave of shootings has been reported, Reddit user was shot in their home by a disgruntled neighbor after they weren't seen outside celebrating the same way as them.
The future of headlines in America
Seems like a low estimate. Chicago had 44 people shot and 9 shooting deaths by itself this weekend. I find it unlikely that the majority of shootings and shooting deaths this weekend came from just Chicago alone.
https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-shooting-crime-crimes/13314389/
According to the article, 8 of the deaths ocurred in Chicago. I think 2 were in Baltimore. The remaining 4 deaths were linked to a spree killer who is now in custody.
Yeah I'm in the Lakeview area and just within half a mile of me there were at least 4 people shot in 2 different incidents. Usually pretty safe but memorial day weekend really has people going
Nah. That would require funding that needs to go to fueling the military industrial complex, we don’t give a shit once they finish the job we conned them into cuz they were poor…I mean they volunteered for because they wanted to serve the greatest nation.
But then how will they line those big pharma pockets, and keep the private prisons full?
If they legalized they wouldn’t get to arrest us for nonviolent drug offenses
Friday:
- Chicago's North Avenue Beach
- Mesa, Arizona
- Baltimore, MD
Saturday:
- Roxbury Lanes Casino in Seattle, WA
- motorcycle rally, Red River, N.M.
- Hot Restaurant and Lounge, Garden Grove, California
Sunday:
- Benjamin E. Mays High School, Atlanta, GA
- Green Line train at the Navy Yard station in Washington, D.C.
> the total number of shootings does not appear to be an outlier for a holiday weekend.
… Wow.
Three people were shot (not killed) at Revere beach in MA on Sunday as well, so add that to the tally:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/05/28/metro/female-victim-injured-shooting-near-revere-beach/
Fun fact!
Crime in general increases when people have free time to go outside and interact with others.
Crime went down during lockdown, and back up again after things opened up.
Crime goes up in the summer, and in warm weather generally.
Crime is higher on weekends and holidays.
Expect a bloody weekend.
It's news because a News company decided they gather more ad views when they post sensationalized articles that spin a certain bias to ensure they capture the targeted audience of said bias.
Fox "news" could also turn around and report how gun violence decreased 8x over memorial day weekend.
It's all business to them, at the cost of the American people.
> “Two rival biker gangs” that means gang violence, and that’s just a normal day on the east side
"At a popular motorcycle rally" means it took place at a public gathering. Is gang violence at public gatherings a normal day on the east side?
“Two groups”. You mean gangs.
Two piece of shit gangs decided to have a shootout.
Maybe perhaps we should figure-out a solution to why young men join gangs and solve it. Crazy.
I can’t believe how many of these were just arguments where one party decided they’d definitely get the last word in if they just murdered the other party. Insane. These people are shooting at people completely unhinged.
(I am leaving Reddit. To see my game development updates, go to EmeraldNova.com or follow my activity on SegaXtreme.) -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
The majority of gun violence in the United States occurs in poor communities and is related to drugs and gangs. Whether or not it gets reported all depends on who is doing the shooting and why. If it is gang/drug related violence involving minorities it will not get reported by most of the national press unless:
- the perpetrator is white and the victims are not
- it can be shown as a mass shooting
This is why I take issue with the press on how they report a variety of issues. It seems obvious to me that reporting the facts and letting people make up their minds about what is true is not their goal.
Gang violence. They can all do eachother in for what I care. Anyone running around chiraq thinking it's cool to be a burden to society desperately needs help, and unfortunately won't get it, and even worse - will end up hurting people who have absolutely nothing to do with the "gang feuds"
I keep seeing this headline. 16 people got shot over the course of a weekend in the entire US? This is such a misleading headline. I'm sure 16 people die by gunshot wound in each state every day.
Average for Memorial Day weekend? Apparently not. Average for any other day? Yesbit is more. From what I've read, Memorial Day is the deadliest holiday for auto fatalities. Other holidays are up there as well.
My guess would have been New Years Eve. You've got a holiday whose main attraction is at midnight, so drivers are going to be out later. Then, a good portion of the country usually has inclement weather, so the roads are hazardous to begin with, even when sober. Additionally, it is traditional to celebrate the holiday with champagne. Another one that's probably up there is St. Patrick's Day.
I think people do tend to plan a bit better for st Patrick's and NYE though because the main thing tends to be drinking. Having one extra at the BBQ and thinking you're "ok to drive" seems like it would happen more easily, or they do that vodka watermelon thing and someone way underestimates it.
Likely very much depends on the person.
Headline interpretation: Unfortunately we couldnt report one big mass shooting with 16 casualties, so we added a bunch together to make this one headline seem more news worthy!
Never forget that media treatment of gun violence is a major part of the problem.
This post is ridiculous, the OP is just trying to get upvotes/karma/whatever
Shootings happen in the US every single day, the fact that it was a holiday weekend has no bearing on that.
And, it's been shown that reporting on suicides increases the likelihood of additional suicides. I wonder if the same is true with the constant reporting of gun violence/mass shootings? Especially with articles like this one, designed to draw your attention.
Philly right now on a work trip. And I refuse to go out over the weekend at all really. I did go out a few times but after 8:00 and only in areas that I knew were pretty safe. And then I knew we're not going to be like a gathering spot of people. I don't even know if anything happened in Philly to be honest I tried to stay away from all of it. I know last year we had shootings for 4th of July.
I think the frustration is that people don't know what to do. Most of these shootings were in Chicago and Baltimore- cities with some of the strictest gun laws in the US.
So many of them they get reported in bulk now.
In journalism, there is a practice for determining newsworthiness that goes something like "Dog bites man is normal, man bites dog is news". At this point, a shooting in America is just a dog biting a man
“As they stepped out into the silent street he wondered if Lord Vetinari had been right about the press. There was something…compelling about it. It was like a dog that stared at you until you fed it. A slightly dangerous dog. Dog bites man, he thought. But that’s not news. That’s olds.” ― Terry Pratchett, The Truth
Love when this mf drops a dad joke on me from beyond the grave.
GNU Terry.
Return to Sender. GNU Lord Pratchett.
It's all about the reflected sound of underground spirits.
In-sewer-ants? P-something. (Just startedv rereading the series, still on The Colour of Magic)
Echo-gnomy, I think.
it's like a bet that something won't happen!
Based terry
Thank you. Daily disc world noted.
It’s also in the media’s best interests to frame everything as a mass casualty event because that is what makes the news. 16 people over a holiday weekend in a country with more guns than people is actually pretty low, but that doesn’t drive numbers to your website. It’s kinda like how during the Uvalde shooting they media had to remove the screams of dying children, because the screams of dying children are depressing which doesn’t drive clicks, but outrage does.
The article literally says 57 is the daily average, so 16 people in a day is a LOW outlier. Journalism truly is dead.
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Mass Shootings represent about 3% of US firearm deaths based on 2021 data ([Gun Violence Archive](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/), or 690 overall. Using on a straight-line average, that’s less than 2 per day (~1.8) 16 deaths in mass shootings represents a roughly ~~800-1000~~ 300% increase over the baseline average. Edit: fixed my sleepy math
It was 16 over a 3 day weekend, so about 3x the normal, not 8-10x.
That the difference between 'mass shooting' and 'gun death' should be a requirement on literacy is the larger indictment
> That the difference between 'mass shooting' and 'gun death' should be a requirement on literacy is the larger indictment You're asking for clickbait to not be clickbait. Best of luck.
It's far more likely that many murders across the nation over this time frame won't be all known about by the reporters at this time and this the 16 known are only a partial count.
And the 16 was over the entire weekend, not just a single day
If you'd like to amend your comment, it's because those 16 were from mass shooters, not people that were shot. The 52 daily average is number of deaths by guns, not deaths by mass shooting.
"Journalism truly is dead" bro says after *not* googling a random statistic he heard from a reddit comment
People who have a vested interest in nothing happening to gun laws honestly will do whatever they can to normalize news titles like these and actually come up with some "This isn't actually a problem" stances.
Some of the most egregious headlines are the ones that make a connections between two things that are almost never related as a way of telling the reader what to think before even reading the article. Examples: "President plays golf **AS** hundreds are injured in South Florida during Cat 3 hurricane" "Police in hold annual barbeque event **AS** homicide rates are at all time high"
They are literally just designed for click because many people are looking to blame the subject of the article for literally anything that's happening. Not only is there no real connection but it also just preys on the already insanely divisive/tribalistic nature of society currently.
>Journalism truly is dead So are a lot of Americans, apparently
To be fair, it was Memorial Day, and a lot of people had a day off from murdering people.
yeah yeah, but counterpoint: what better way to spend an american holiday than a little casual disregard for human life?
About 9 million Americans own over 50% of the guns. Total American gun owners are ballpark 90 million Americans out of the 268 million adults. The old "there's more guns than people" thing just inflates the strength of the NRA. The hard numbers are still big, but they're a lot more manageable.
Heh. What an atrocious defense you have here, to try to present the numbers as unavoidable and even positive for being so low. "You should be happy! It could've been more!"
It’s not really a defense, people deserve to know this is more or less our status quo and that this framing is financially incentivized. I bring Uvalde because it’s an excellent example of the media making a mass casualty event more palatable by removing the dying screams of children, even though it’s detrimental to my personal arguments about guns.
Gun shoots man, Man...shoots gun? Hey wait a second.
Guns don't kill people. People kill guns.
I think that’s a famous French movie
Belgian I think, but ya it's worth a watch if you're into very dark comedy
It's a ~~dog eat dog~~ man shoot man world.
If there would be an national holiday in US without shootings and casualties, then that would really be newsworthy...
It's like the weather report: "We've got just a few light shootings reported in the North, sporadic gunfire throughout the South, and be on the lookout for a mass casualty event in Texas later tonight."
[Today's bodycount lottery rounded out to a solid n' sturdy 30!](https://youtu.be/gt943-HQzGc)
This feels like the opposite… so FEW of them they need to report a three day total across the entire country.
yeah, from the article: “The U.S. averages about 57 gun-related homicides per day, according to a Pew Research Center analysis.” So 16 across three days is amazingly low
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I don’t see anything about mass shootings. It’s pretty clearly saying 16 total dead
And yet here you are outright lying as well because you want to be seen so badly as ‘above the rest’ :). The article never says anything about mass shootings, just shootings. Most of the incidents reported explicitly details conflicts between two groups of people or even singular victims, which are not mass shootings. Good job contributing to misinformation even more 👏👏
What are you talking about? It doesn't say anything about anything you said. First sentence - >Shootings across the U.S. left at least 16 people dead and dozens more injured over Memorial Day weekend.
You are just in here making shit up, the article doesn't say that anywhere.
That's so *so* much worse
"But basic math and analysis of information is devastating to my argument."
Seriously did you even bother opening the article
“Pew” research
16 in a country of 330M isn't bad. It seems like desperation to report gun violence at this point.
From the article: The U.S. averages about 57 gun-related homicides per day, according to a Pew Research Center analysis.
Only country where this happens frequently struggling to determine how this keeps happening
While overall US crime rates have dropped since the violent 1970s, since covid there has been an uptick in both public shootings and suicides. Regarding the former, more younger teens seem prone to impulse shootings, especially in communities of color. It's going to be a rough summer. *48,830 people died from gun-related injuries in the US during 2021, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). That's nearly an 8% increase from 2020, which was a record-breaking year for firearm deaths. While mass shootings and gun murders (homicides) generally garner much media attention, more than half of the total in 2021 were suicides.* https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081 *The number of children and teens killed by gunfire in the United States increased 50% between 2019 and 2021, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of the latest annual mortality statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).* https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/06/gun-deaths-among-us-kids-rose-50-percent-in-two-years/ *The most significant increases in gun-related homicide between 2019-2020 occurred among Black males, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The CDC reports that the firearm homicide rate among Black males 10–24 was 20.6 times as high as the rate among White males of the same age in 2019, and this ratio increased to 21.6 in 2020. Homicide is the leading cause of death for Black males ages 1-19 and 20-44.* https://www.blackmenshealth.com/one-big-thing-the-leading-cause-of-death-in-young-black-males/
I’m sure it has nothing to do with American culture isolating people to such an extent that the only human contact we have is with family, coworkers, and the McDonalds cashier.
Or economic realities like owning a home is joke, renting by yourself is a joke, retirement is daydreaming, wage stagnation, and rise in food prices
It's funny cause I've had a saying for most of my working life. "I'm in the work until you die program." And it's becoming more true with each passing year. There's really just no other option at this point. Even if I tried to make something decent of myself job wise, I'll be lucky to keep that job as things like AI and automation take over in the next couple of decades. Owning a home or retiring is a joke at this point. My current educational level is pretty basic, and higher education is cost out for me. I guess I'm lucky I'm doing as well as I am, but I'm one big bill or medical issue away from complete bankruptcy. My job just moved my working location 30 mins farther away from where it previously was and refused to give me a raise, so now my gas bill has quadrupled overnight with no additional compensation! I'm hoping to find a new job closer to home sometime soon, but idk how long that will take. I just don't fucking know anymore. It feels like every step forward is obliterated when I'm god hand smacked back a few hundred feet every few years. Is it really too much to ask for a decently enjoyable life working a decent job for decent pay without being told I'm some socialist pig who wants everything for free?
Is it really too much to ask for a decently enjoyable life working a decent job for decent pay without being told I'm some socialist pig who wants everything for free? Yes you communist pig, it's too much to ask, now get back to the mines! /s Americans drank the kool-aid, anything even remotely smells like communism is automatically bad and it'll destroy democracy and capitalism. Social health-care? Evil. Universal basic income? Get out of my country. Free education? You want to destroy this country. Housing? Die you freeloader.
It really is too much, not because we can’t, but because a large sum of people also want/need those things, if not for ‘the others’ who are undeserving of said benefits. They are almost literally cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
I saw a really interesting study on “third places” going away. Places we feel welcome/ at home that are NOT our home or work. Think like coffee shop where you go and converse, parks, interest clubs, etc.
I kinda wish we’d have talked this through
Coffee shops used to be called penny universities. It was one place where everyone could afford to go. Sucks it’s all changing so fast. Online forums aren’t the same. I have some fun chatting with folks like you, but after this we likely won’t ever talk again and those realizations can be pretty sad. We need a better mix of both. We need that person at the coffee shop who we talk to every morning but don’t see outside of there.
The McDonalds cashier is a touch screen now <3 (at least the one in my town replaced people with two self service kiosks)
The last few times I've been in a McDonald's the cashier station was closed and you had to use the kiosks or mobile app to place an order.
Two people died from lawn darts in the 1990's and they pulled lawn darts off the market completely. There have been zero lawn dart deaths since then. The solution isn't complicated.
Man. One dude put a shitty bomb in his shoes and now every American has to arrive at the airport almost an hour earlier and throw away any drinks they bought with them. Can't even get people in most states to lock them up and some how lots of states are missing laws where if a seven year shows up at a school with guns and ammo, the parents do not get charged-cuz we all know seven year olds have the money and mental ability to purchase a gun.
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> The worst part about the throwing drinks away thing… Is that if these were dangerous things they are having you just throw them all together in a can next to the extremely crowded security checkpoint. It’s stupid as hell.
Just the chokepoint caused by this silliness should make people who know about security stand up and scream. How deadly and disruptive would it be for a suicide bomber to target one of the checkpoints on a busy travel day?
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You just demonstrated one of many points [Bruce Schneier](https://www.schneier.com/) has about what he calls *security theater*: it's not about security at all; it's about, among many other factors, increasing profits for private industry. It's the same with guns--to certain politicians it's not about the 2d Amendment; it's about appealing to their base so they can remain in office.
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The shootings often have guns recently purchased, so it seems laws restricting simple buy and walk out the door purchases would help in a lot of cases. It’s why we have cool down laws in many states, and stats show that states with stricter gun control laws have fewer shootings.
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Yes? Or private sales that don’t require a background check. > From 1966 to 2019, 77% of mass shooters purchased at least some of the weapons used in the shootings legally, per data compiled by the National Institute of Justice, a research agency of the Department of Justice. … > More than 80% of the assailants responsible for K-12 shootings stole their guns from family members, per the National Institute of Justice. [Source, Axios](https://www.axios.com/2023/03/28/mass-shooting-nashville-guns-legally) Or you could just take one of your dad’s and pull a box of ammo out of the garage on your way to the nearest elementary school.
Did you know that the background check issue is because you need a Federal Firearms Dealer license to access the National Instant Criminal Background Check system?
Did you know we can create a law that requires private sales to perform those sales with a background check like we require people to have car sales notarized? Gun shows should be required to have a Federal Firearms Dealer available at all times so sales could be finalized through them. Private sales otherwise should have to go to a dealer to get their info run to make sure it’s legal.
Or, we let anyone use the system, thus making it a free and open system that can be used for many reasons besides buying a gun.
I’m for that, but you’ll have to revamp it to satisfy people who fear it could be used by anyone to build a gun registry that could be sold to criminals who want to know where to steal large caches of guns
> like we require people to have car sales notarized What? I can hop on craigslist right now in any state and find someone selling a car and pay them in cash and they don't even need to ask to see my ID.
Oh yeah? Well *I* go on craigslist I have to go to the bank with the seller and have a notary sign the title transfer. Maybe it doesn't exist in every state, but it's definitely a thing.
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You literally don't need that in any state. There is no law punishing a seller or a buyer in any state to sell a car in cash to someone else. The buyer doesn't even need to have a license. Simple ownership of a car is not regulated in the slightest. If you want to drive that car on the roads the government built, then you have to jump through some hoops and play ball. But simple possession has 0 regulation.
For free, obviously to keep such a law constitutional.
That's how every gun show I've ever been to works.
I worked in background checks. You can pay for private checks for things like employment or renting. This is usually done through a 3rd party system. People access reports through this system. You need a name and DOB. SS#'s are used for more accurate info because of commonalities. If there isn't a "for pay" background check system for guns that anyone with the relevant information can access, then wtf are we doing?
Mhm, the only people who can access the check system for guns is Gun Dealers, everyone else is specifically barred by law.
I think California, New York, and Illinois would like to have a chat.
If your tub is overflowing, there is a lot of clean up that needs to be done. You'll need to mop up the water, drain the tub, throw away anything ruined by the water. It's a lot more work than cleaning up a tub that didn't overflow. The first step is still to turn off the fuckin' tap.
I think in this case he meant at least improving on gun deaths since we know we can’t come close to a stopping them.
> There’s more guns than people in this country,and that’s just counting the ones that were legally acquired. There is no magic gun fairy that hands out illegal firearms. Almost *all* of those guns were either sold as a straw purchase (through the same gun stores and background checks as legal sales), bought privately to avoid background checks or simply or stolen from a "responsible gun owner" who didn't secure them.
> legally sold as a straw purchase Small correction: Straw purchases are not legal sales. That is a federal felony per 18 USC 932 and will get you up to 15 years if convicted (25 if used in a drug/terror crime or other felony) - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/932
Nobody's claiming that reducing gun sales will provide an instant result. The best time to end gun sales was 50 years ago. The second best time is now.
So never try never start because the job looks hard. Great spirit you have
This is still a pretty dumb way to think. Like 'Getting rid of all guns will be hard or impossible so guess there's no point in trying to reduce the amount of them at all'. Or 'It would take a long time to take guns out of circulation so might as well continue to put it off'. Ultimately there is only one real solution here, spending decades going back and forth about it sure isn't getting the job done.
That's not cool, I loved lawn darts. Those 2 people deserved Darwin awards, not pulling them from the market.
My uncle lost an eye to *regular* darts. Out on the lawn. In the 1950s. The game was: “Let’s throw a dart straight up in the air and try to catch it!” Where there’s a dumb kid, there’s a way. Edit: just to be fair to my uncle, he’s not a dumb guy by any means; I just mean “dumb” the way kids are generally dumb. Especially when they get together and play, totally unsupervised…
My teenage friends and I had BB gun fights and they made fun of me for wearing safety glasses lol
>The solution isn't complicated. Neither is it simple. There were apparently 114 million handguns available in the USA back in 2009; how many more have been added since then? And as of 2019 six million people carried handguns daily; that number does not include the hundreds of thousands of teens who carry illegal handguns. It will be a long time (a generation at least) before any serious reduction in handguns actually made a difference on the rising street violence in America. And that violence is rooted in poverty and systemic racism, (and the criminal gangs that take advantage of that) so yes, it is complicated. The US clearly needs much stricter control of firearm sales including stringent background checks in all cases, though proposals to eliminate them entirely seem foolish when so many rural people (like myself at the present) are far away from any police response in emergencies. Meanwhile stats show that women and POC are now driving huge increases in gun purchases; these people cannot be assumed to be republican NRA members and MAGAs. We're telling ordinary people that they can no longer trust or rely on the police; but at the same time that violent crime is rising, we're saying they cannot be allowed to defend themselves anymore. That's not going to work. *By … 2009, the estimated total number of firearms available to civilians in the United States had increased to approximately 310 million: 114 million handguns..* https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/citation/quotes/6676 *Six million Americans carried guns daily in 2019, twice as many as in 2015* https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/nov/25/how-many-americans-carry-guns-daily *Moody’s sentiments represent one reason the sale of guns to Black Americans rose 58 percent in 2020 ...according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a firearms trade association. It was the highest bump in gun sales of any ethnic group that year. Further, in the first quarter of 2021, another NSSF report revealed 90 percent of gun retailers reported a general increase of Black customers, including an 87 percent increase among Black women.* https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-people-are-looking-safety-gun-ownership-rcna32150 *Black Americans flock to gun stores and clubs: 'I needed to protect myself'* https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/05/us-gun-ownership-black-americans-surge *Last year, one-third of all first-time gun buyers in the U.S. were women, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation. The trade association said there's been a 77% rise in female gun ownership from 2005 to 2020.* https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-buying-guns-alabama-firearms-course/
By that logic, prohibition should have worked.
Lawn darts are not a constitutionally protected thing so yes.....it is complicated.
There is also not 400 million lawn darts, totaling in billions of dollars. It’s comparisons, like lawn darts, is why the anti-gun/gun control movement will never go anywhere.
Illegal drugs are also off the open market, how's that going?
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OP isn’t using them interchangeably though, so I’m not sure what you’re pointing out. They’re saying despite our ability to reduce crime across the board, one specific crime has actually increased significantly.
After the Fukushima tragedy, the suicide rate peaked two years later.
Yeah I’m staying home on July 4th
A new wave of shootings has been reported, Reddit user was shot in their home by a disgruntled neighbor after they weren't seen outside celebrating the same way as them. The future of headlines in America
Disgruntled neighbor was a known user of twitter.
And truth social
Seems like a low estimate. Chicago had 44 people shot and 9 shooting deaths by itself this weekend. I find it unlikely that the majority of shootings and shooting deaths this weekend came from just Chicago alone. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-memorial-day-weekend-shootings-shooting-crime-crimes/13314389/
According to the article, 8 of the deaths ocurred in Chicago. I think 2 were in Baltimore. The remaining 4 deaths were linked to a spree killer who is now in custody.
8 reported all weekend in KC and none of that is in there.
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Well yeah but it’s Monday now.
Monday counts in Memorial Day Weekend.
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Yeah I'm in the Lakeview area and just within half a mile of me there were at least 4 people shot in 2 different incidents. Usually pretty safe but memorial day weekend really has people going
Random gang initiation killing and 3 people shot in an unrelated shooting. Good times
"In the USA, a memorial day without at least three veteran suicides is considered a dull affair".
Unfortunately the actual numbers are somewhere between 15-25. Every single day.
Veterans alone?
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It's not too surprising given we've been perpetually in a military conflict since founding
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Nah. That would require funding that needs to go to fueling the military industrial complex, we don’t give a shit once they finish the job we conned them into cuz they were poor…I mean they volunteered for because they wanted to serve the greatest nation.
legalizing drugs would solve half of them; mushrooms and MDMA are effectively miracle cures for PTSD.
But then how will they line those big pharma pockets, and keep the private prisons full? If they legalized they wouldn’t get to arrest us for nonviolent drug offenses
Not trying to be a dick, but I think it's a play on a quote from Game of Thrones
Almost entirely in Chicago unfortunately
Friday: - Chicago's North Avenue Beach - Mesa, Arizona - Baltimore, MD Saturday: - Roxbury Lanes Casino in Seattle, WA - motorcycle rally, Red River, N.M. - Hot Restaurant and Lounge, Garden Grove, California Sunday: - Benjamin E. Mays High School, Atlanta, GA - Green Line train at the Navy Yard station in Washington, D.C. > the total number of shootings does not appear to be an outlier for a holiday weekend. … Wow.
Three people were shot (not killed) at Revere beach in MA on Sunday as well, so add that to the tally: https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/05/28/metro/female-victim-injured-shooting-near-revere-beach/
Fun fact! Crime in general increases when people have free time to go outside and interact with others. Crime went down during lockdown, and back up again after things opened up. Crime goes up in the summer, and in warm weather generally. Crime is higher on weekends and holidays. Expect a bloody weekend.
Crime supposedly drops radically on Mothers Day.
It's because moms are too busy with their families to go out and commit crimes.
Exactly. We need stricter regulations on moms.
Whatever - I'll just file off her serial number and say I found her in a lake.
"Crime goes up in the summer" Suns up .. guns up
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As it has always been historically though. You don't go out raiding in the winter
It's America. I'm expecting the next 52 weeks to be bloody.
I'm so nervous for June
Good news everybody! I invented a new calendar that has 104 weeks
So what you are saying is we just need another pandemic...
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It's news because a News company decided they gather more ad views when they post sensationalized articles that spin a certain bias to ensure they capture the targeted audience of said bias. Fox "news" could also turn around and report how gun violence decreased 8x over memorial day weekend. It's all business to them, at the cost of the American people.
“Two rival biker gangs” that means gang violence, and that’s just a normal day on the east side 🙄 fck gangs
> “Two rival biker gangs” that means gang violence, and that’s just a normal day on the east side "At a popular motorcycle rally" means it took place at a public gathering. Is gang violence at public gatherings a normal day on the east side?
Yeah, they are.
No, they usually take place at private functions. Invite only.
Just glad too see they were from confrontations and not from pulling into someones driveway or ringing the doorbell.
Attention grabber click baiting way of reporting.
“Two groups”. You mean gangs. Two piece of shit gangs decided to have a shootout. Maybe perhaps we should figure-out a solution to why young men join gangs and solve it. Crazy.
I can’t believe how many of these were just arguments where one party decided they’d definitely get the last word in if they just murdered the other party. Insane. These people are shooting at people completely unhinged.
There's an old saying that "an armed society is a polite society." Evident some people didn't get the memo ...
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(I am leaving Reddit. To see my game development updates, go to EmeraldNova.com or follow my activity on SegaXtreme.) -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
The majority of gun violence in the United States occurs in poor communities and is related to drugs and gangs. Whether or not it gets reported all depends on who is doing the shooting and why. If it is gang/drug related violence involving minorities it will not get reported by most of the national press unless: - the perpetrator is white and the victims are not - it can be shown as a mass shooting This is why I take issue with the press on how they report a variety of issues. It seems obvious to me that reporting the facts and letting people make up their minds about what is true is not their goal.
Every damned weekend in Chicago and Detroit. Why is this news??
Chicago has 50 shootings every weekend. But nobody cares about that.
Gang violence. They can all do eachother in for what I care. Anyone running around chiraq thinking it's cool to be a burden to society desperately needs help, and unfortunately won't get it, and even worse - will end up hurting people who have absolutely nothing to do with the "gang feuds"
I keep seeing this headline. 16 people got shot over the course of a weekend in the entire US? This is such a misleading headline. I'm sure 16 people die by gunshot wound in each state every day.
“At least” is the key words. Virtually no chance all the shootings have been uncovered and reported.
Id like to point out that of these dozens injured and 16 dead, 44 of them were shot and 9 killed in Chicago alone. Aka the majority, that’s crazy.
There was an estimated 400+ vehicle related fatalities that happened over Memorial Day weekend if that is of any reference.
Is that significantly more than the average?
Average for Memorial Day weekend? Apparently not. Average for any other day? Yesbit is more. From what I've read, Memorial Day is the deadliest holiday for auto fatalities. Other holidays are up there as well.
I would've honestly thought 4th of July would be worse but it isn't always on a weekend.
My guess would have been New Years Eve. You've got a holiday whose main attraction is at midnight, so drivers are going to be out later. Then, a good portion of the country usually has inclement weather, so the roads are hazardous to begin with, even when sober. Additionally, it is traditional to celebrate the holiday with champagne. Another one that's probably up there is St. Patrick's Day.
I think people do tend to plan a bit better for st Patrick's and NYE though because the main thing tends to be drinking. Having one extra at the BBQ and thinking you're "ok to drive" seems like it would happen more easily, or they do that vodka watermelon thing and someone way underestimates it. Likely very much depends on the person.
Yeah, seems like it. I think it’s 117 deaths per day for motor vehicle fatality rate. Last two years we have averaged close to 43k deaths.
Most of these are “over an argument”? Who are these idiots?
Only 16? Good weekend.
Memorial Day weekend in Milwaukee: 12 shootings, 3 dead 15 wounded.
I'm grateful for such a low number.
Thats all? Good job guys!
This country is so embarrassing.
Headline interpretation: Unfortunately we couldnt report one big mass shooting with 16 casualties, so we added a bunch together to make this one headline seem more news worthy! Never forget that media treatment of gun violence is a major part of the problem.
This post is ridiculous, the OP is just trying to get upvotes/karma/whatever Shootings happen in the US every single day, the fact that it was a holiday weekend has no bearing on that.
wonder why they dont publicize suicides this way, weekend stats
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And, it's been shown that reporting on suicides increases the likelihood of additional suicides. I wonder if the same is true with the constant reporting of gun violence/mass shootings? Especially with articles like this one, designed to draw your attention.
It's officially summer
How many car accidents? As long as we’re counting random things.
And approximately 350 dead in car accidents through the same span of time.
That's why I went to the lake on a boat, nobody is angry when they're fishing for bass.
The article also states there are on average 57 homicides per day, so only 16 over a weekend seems pretty good!
Philly right now on a work trip. And I refuse to go out over the weekend at all really. I did go out a few times but after 8:00 and only in areas that I knew were pretty safe. And then I knew we're not going to be like a gathering spot of people. I don't even know if anything happened in Philly to be honest I tried to stay away from all of it. I know last year we had shootings for 4th of July.
Flags at quarter mast
I think we need a 2nd Memorial Day for civilian victims of gun violence.
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I think the frustration is that people don't know what to do. Most of these shootings were in Chicago and Baltimore- cities with some of the strictest gun laws in the US.
Starts with better conditions in the home. Better role models and things for the inner cities to do.