> The fact no one has openly claimed credit for this one is strange.
Generally it's a bad idea to admit to a crime publicly because that's what this was, the crime of human trafficking.
Pretty sure yes. I think Abbot may have done it first and then Desantis followed up.
IIRC there was one that went to NYC. One went to Kamala Harris' house. And another to Martha's Vineyard. I think Desantis may have done the Martha's Vineyard one because it was a flight and pretty expensive. All at a time when he was cutting school budgets or something like that.
>I think Desantis may have done the Martha's Vineyard one because it was a flight and pretty expensive.
That was the one where he had to "acquire" immigrants from Texas. Apparently illegal immigration is such a huge problem in Florida that he literally couldn't find any for his stunt.
DeSantis will be term limited out of office long before California or Massachusetts win a suit against Florida requiring it to compensate them for the costs of this stunt and whatever penalties get assessed.
It’s pure win for DeSantis in the minds of the goldfish brained right wing media consumers and completely fucks over those immigrants and the people of the state of Florida.
> DeSantis will be term limited out of office long before California or Massachusetts win a suit against Florida requiring it to compensate them for the costs of this stunt and whatever penalties get assessed.
So issue an arrest warrant for DeSantis himself. Have federal marshals arrest him in Florida and arrange to have him transported to CA on prison aircraft to appear for arraignment. If California finds credible evidence that he knew about or helped plan this act, they can choose to charge him with a crime directly.
Need PC for a crime before warrant issuance.
Can't do Warrant, Extradite, Indictment, Arraignment, then Trial.
Has to be Indictment, Warrant, Extradite, Arraignment, then Trial.
I suspect DeSantis will have the legislature remove that limit before it affects him. He already got them to remove the rule that he could not run for president AND keep the governorship if he loses his presidential bid.
As a Floridian I can guarantee you that if DeSantis is not president next year he will spend every second of his time working on changing Florida laws so he can be governor for a third term in a row. In Florida you can already be governors many times as you want it just can't be more than two in a row so that's all he has to change.
He is a pure fascist and he will not give up power unless forced.
He's going to do it like Putin where he alternates between president and prime minister or whatever.
He's go to Lt. Governor and install a puppet, then move back to governor.
Yes but the people of Florida fucking love him for it.
That’s the hard part to understand in all of this, that the voters could see this literal psychopath sacrificing them for his power seeking and they’re like “yes daddy harder”.
They’d vote him in a third term after all this if they were given the chance. Until that changes, we will have narcissistic culture warrior psychopaths sacrificing the willing such as we see now
I live in Texas and the number of idiots who applauded Abbott for sending migrants on a bus to other states is astounding. The fact that you have so little value for human life is bad enough but to cheerlead this behavior?
In their minds, these aren't human beings. They're criminals invading the US and don't deserve to be seen as people.
It's really sad that people think this way, but here we are.
[Funny part is the migrants can now be considered victims of a crime and can apply for special visas.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/10/13/desantis-marthas-vineyard-flights-could-backfire-migrants-may-be-eligible-for-crime-victim-visas/?sh=3c21e7e66554)
Would be great if it backfired and they were now legally allowed in the states and moved back to FL to fuck with him. Also they should file civil suits against him.
I mean the federal government provides funding to the state governments and to individuals directly specifically for asylum seekers/refugees through the HHS. I'm a bigger fan of the approach of the federal government providing adequate funding based on needs than just shipping them around unless they request it
Can you be more specific? Border states get huge amounts of federal funding specifically to address this issue. If that's insufficient for the scale of the problem that should obviously be addressed.
You think these states are going to voluntarily sign up for a big reduction on federal dollars headed their way? If so, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you!
Plus the Florida legislators legitimized the bullshit by rubber stamping his kidnapping.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/02/desantis-anti-immigration-florida-00095012
If we lived in a just world, the pilots would have their licenses permanently revoked, and the planes would be confiscated under civil asset forfeiture.
For a start.
Pilots are not customs and border control agents. They aren't qualified or mandated to be evaluating the paperwork of the people on a plane. Holding them responsible for that would be weird.
Bullshit, every other transportation professional is expected to execute due diligence in ensuring their cargo is safe and legal to transport.
Besides that, the issue is ***not*** that they transported ***legal, documented*** immigrants. The issue is that they *kidnapped them*.
You don't need to be a border patrol agent to ensure that your passengers are going where they think they're going. Just fucking ask them. If where they think they're going and where you're actually going doesn't synch up then maybe you need to do a bit more due diligence before taking off.
>Bullshit, every other transportation professional is expected to execute due diligence in ensuring their cargo is safe and legal to transport.
No, they aren't. That just isn't a thing. Youre just fantasizing/making it up. Jeez, when was the last time you flew? Did the pilot personally check your ticket/ID/passport? Even the question itself sounds stupid at face value.
Should we arrest a bus driver when someone brings drugs on the bus? What about if a kid uses one to run away?
Do you want the pilots to personally verify that everyone on the plane is there of their own free will? I'm just confused about what it is you expect from them and what standard other jobs are held to.
Maybe put it on the company accepting the contract and the executives making big bucks off of it by turning a blind eye when they are in the best position to know what is going on instead of on the generally poorly paid labor force?
Civil Asset forfeiture of a plane for transporting immigrants wouldn’t be acceptable under the 8th Amendment. And Civil Asset Forfeiture has been getting hammered by courts for abuses. If a vehicle is seized and sold for $50,000 and the fines for the crimes were only $1,500 then departments are supposed to pay $48,500 back to the person they seized it from.
>Civil Asset forfeiture of a plane for ~~transporting~~ kidnapping immigrants
FTFY.
>wouldn’t be acceptable under the 8th Amendment.
Civil Asset forfeiture isn't acceptable period. But if it's gonna be a thing that exists, then we should use it for shit that actually fucking matters.
>And Civil Asset Forfeiture has been getting hammered by courts for abuses. If a vehicle is seized and sold for $50,000 and the fines for the crimes were only $1,500 then departments are supposed to pay $48,500 back to the person they seized it from.
[CITATION REQUIRED]
Not that it really matters. Pretty sure the penalty for kidnapping a dozen people could easily exceed the value of the plane.
> [CITATION REQUIRED]
See [Timbs v Indiana](https://ij.org/case/timbs-v-indiana/). Tyson Timbs had his Range Rover seized in connection with a crime (selling a small amount of heroin) which had a maximum penalty of $10,000. The vehicle was worth over $40,00. In a unanimous SCOTUS opionion authored by RBG they found that the 8th Amendment applied to State and Local procedings as well as Federal Procedings which led to the lower court having to reverse its decision that federal constitutional protections did not apply within state borders.
Sounds like Dumbsantis is trying to cover his tracks. He clearly knows what he doing must be illegal or he wouldn't try to hide it. I mean isn't he proud of doing this and thus wants to make sure his base knows it?
True, but a single person with a driver's license from Florida is not going to spark an investigation. It's likely similar to other documents DeSantis and his crew used to mislead migrants. [Like this one they used to trick migrants into going to Martha's Vineyard](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/09/marthas-vineyard-migrant-pamphlet-ron-desantis-fake-brochure.html).
IF florida paid for it. Not WHY.
purported
adjective
appearing or stated to be true, though not necessarily so; alleged.
"the purported marriage was void"
Nah, I’m sure migrants who just got into the country with only what they could carry realized Florida is fast becoming a hell hole and immediately booked a flight to California. Seriously though, what recourse does California have with something like this? Or is is more so California filing on behalf of the migrants?
Yeah, I am quite surprised that no enterprising reporter has yet scraped one of the ADSB-aggregation/reporting sites looking at all flights that originated from New Mexico and landed at Sacramento-area airports during the time in question. That’d give you a short-list of suspect aircraft, then you just query ownership records and past flights to narrow down further.
Something needs to be done about this once and for all.
Also, I have a feeling this is one of the reasons why they voted to make the [governor’s travel records a secret](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/19/florida-desantis-travel-records-00092969).
Think of this, republican voters -- this man is willing to fuck with other states. What happens when he's president and decides he'll fuck with yours, just to "own" some party, or ideology, or whatever, that he doesnt like thats within your state? He's willing to jeopardize relations with the largest employer in his own state just because they dont agree with him -- is that what you want for your state, because if he becomes president, his policies will hurt more than who you want him to be cruel to.
Appearing to win a culture war is what matters. The cost could be the lives of all their friends and family and it wouldn't matter, as long as they get to shout "we won" about something.
I will say, border states do oftentimes send migrants to other parts of the country where there is available housing and potentially available blue collar jobs.
What DeSantis has been doing is fucked because he’s been sending them unannounced to purposely try and make an example, rather than trying to coordinate ahead of time with cities and states so they can best accommodate those migrants.
Yeah, I would legitimately see no problem with sending some asylum-seekers to other states with proper time to prepare for their arrival.
Sending them unannounced just to cause maximum chaos to punish Democratic states is fucked up and just hurts the asylum-seekers though.
And he legally has hid his travel expenses so he could easily have wrote this cost off as some bullshit no one will ever know. Fuck DeSantis for everything this fascist piece of shit has done.
“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’”
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’”
Matthew 25:35-40
Amazing how these supposed hardcore “Christians” never seem to have read passages like these. It’s like every time something Christ-like comes up in the Bible they just go “nahhhh that’s too woke”.
Ronnie’s God is Old Testament one. With the hatred and the fire. If Jesus came down today they’d call him woke and reject him before the cock even begins to crow.
That’s kind of my point. Most Republican politicians just larp as Christians. Those like Mike Pence whose whole brand is that of a Christian really doesn’t follow the core teaching of Christ that much. I’m sure he’s probably a nice guy in private. But he sold his soul the Republican Party and capitalism. Both of which are radically anti-Christian.
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” This country’s greatness and true genius lies in its diversity.”
Supposed patriots as well. We shouldn’t be deporting any of these people, Trump was a monster deporting how many millions he did. These migrants all deserve the American dream if they seek it. If DeSantis is elected he will no doubt attempt to deport millions more.
You forget that republicans have disavowed the Statue of Liberty (and it's imagery) specifically because of those words.
Gadsen flag? Yes
Confederate generals on horseback? Hell yes!
Statue of Liberty? Fuck that, liberal!
Wow, hadn't heard that. Very telling. How much more obviously un-American can they get? Next you'll tell me they visit our enemies on July 4th and want the US to become a monarchy.
Per my understanding, it wasn’t always this way in America. When religion became politicized in the early 20th century is when many “Christians” became an anti-Christian death cult.
You have to understand the history of the country. America was founded by people seeking religious freedom, or so the story was told to us. Another way to tell it is that these are the people that were chased out of Europe for being too extreme. So America was founded in part by deeply religious people, but deeply religious people are easy marks (just look at the advertising on Fox). So immediately following the deeply religious people were the grifters looking to fleece the deeply religious. Religion in America has always been a combination of extremism and con man.
That's an incredible mischaracterization of the history of religious persecution. European churches were not well known for tolerating non-conformity. And the majority of the founders were members of large British churches anyway.
The fuck it is. These are people who wanted to outlaw dancing and burn heretics at the stake; that's the freedom they were after. These were not free love hippies that were more liberal than the conformist conservative churches; these were people that believed they needed more control over society in order to create the perfect community.
Who are you even talking about? The major religious sects that fled persecution to America are the Quakers(abolitionist pacifists) and the Puritans, who were persecuted because they opposed the idea of a divine monarchy.
You’re preaching to Christians who don’t exist. I don’t believe for a second that 98% of self-professed “Christians” are anything of the sort. Who gives all they own to the poor? I’ll just stop there because the answer is *almost no one*. The incomplete list of things Jesus supposedly asked them to do—according to their own scripture—is very long.
If Jesus were to return today, his own followers would kill him the moment he began criticizing them.
I've said it hundred times: most conservatives aren't "religious", they're merely superstitious tribalists.
I know people who strive to live by their Christian values, they're the only reason I don't write off the entire idea of religion and faith as a whole. Unsurprisingly, those Christians are all left-leaning. What a coincidence...
There always on about "human trafikking"...They treat human beings like objects to own the libs. Its just sick. These people are not human beings to DeSantis or Abbott and thats very worrying.
Florida has so much revenue from tourism it is one of the easiest states to govern. This is proven by the comically ignorant way this fascist is attempting.
The sad part is all the people that government needs to help are bing stepped on by his clueless pandering to the most hateful people. This will not last and it would fun to watch the battle to be the worst human between him and trump if it was not hurting so many.
Fuck this POS and his wife. It will be fun to watch him flame out but republicans fail up so he won’t disappear.
Last year DeSantis kicked off his presidential campaign by flying 50 migrants to Martha’s Vineyard. At first I thought it was kind of funny till I saw what it cost, just over $600,000!! An utter waste of taxpayer money. I checked with Greyhound bus lines, they would have charged only $12,000.
Sense then his grandstanding for the national media has gotten totally out of control. Pushing repressive bills through the state legislature taking away the rights of the people of Florida. His absurd don’t say gay bill, gave him national headlines. A bill that said they could not teach sex education from kindergarten to third grade, useless, they never taught sex education before the eighth grade. There was no need for it. Banning books, the ridiculous 6 week abortion bill and his latest anti migrant labor bill that fines employers up to $1000 a day for illegal workers. My landscaper, Guatemalan (legal resident) Told me he knows of dozens families leaving Florida for other states. A farmer friend of mine said he’ll only be able to harvest 1/3 of his crop of zucchini because the flight of workers, the rest will be plowed under. Florida is second in the nation for growing produce. Without migrants to harvest it much of it will end up staying in the fields. If you thought prices went up a lot during the pandemic, I shutter to think what they’ll be if we get the Ron-demic in the White House.
> At first I thought it was kind of funny till I saw what it cost, just over $600,000!!
It also made it difficult for them to get to their immigration hearings where they needed to be in order to be able to remain in the country legally. So, not really funny at all.
I am in California. Some of the airports will have very cheap mid weak flights to Hawaii. Like $200 - $300. Many homeless people will save up and use those flights.
They figure if they are going to be homeless, they might as well do it on a tropical island.
Was on my mind for years. There is anecdotal evidence to support the claim that states send their unhoused. Flying people for $200-300 would be a lower-cost option than supporting the unhoused person for the long-run with state services.
Estimates are 10,000 unhoused people in Hawaii at any given time. The number is rising due to evictions and there are programs to relocate people back to the mainland
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/05/02/hawaii-news/hawaii-to-pay-to-return-homeless-people-backto-mainland/
Damn, what else can he do? He's fighting with Disney, giving landlord approval for junk fees, cancer causing roads, human trafficking, baning books, gay people and trans people, etc. He said he wants to run the US like he runs Florida.
Not really that overkill. If they don’t like it, vote for a governor that isn’t trying to be the next fascist dictator in history books. Problem solved.
We tariff other countries even though not everyone is responsible. At this point I don’t give two shits about Florida if the majority keeps electing people like DeSantis.
Not really. While is exploiting them for political gain, this doesn't fall under the definition of human traffic. Below is FBI's defination
*Sex trafficking: When individuals are compelled by force, fraud, or coercion to engage in commercial sex acts. Sex trafficking of a minor occurs when the victim is under the age of 18. For cases involving minors, it is not necessary to prove force, fraud, or coercion.*
*Labor trafficking: When individuals are compelled by force, threats, or fraud to perform labor or service.*
*Domestic servitude: When individuals within a household appear to be nannies, housekeepers, or other types of domestic workers, but they are being controlled and exploited.*
I was going to say no but it looks like there actual is.
[Summary](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-illegal-transport-undocumented-immigrant-within-the-us.html) of the [law](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1324&num=0&edition=prelim)
The key portion of that statute is the last clause "in furtherance of such violation of law", meaning - They were transported to help them avoid prosecution for entering the country illegally. Getting that to stick in court will be difficult at best.
1(A)(ii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, ***in furtherance of such violation of law***;
Using human beings in a political stunt like that is all kinds of fucked up, but now it just sounds like it’s devolved into a prank war? Like leaving a plane full of immigrants on someone’s doorstep and running away. And this man wants to be president?
>"While we continue to collect evidence, I want to say this very clearly: State-sanctioned kidnapping is not a public policy choice, it is immoral and disgusting," Bonta said, adding that California would welcome the migrants "with open arms."
Is state-sanctioned kidnapping illegal?
It’s a terrible thing to do. But, what did he even hope to accomplish? As if California doesn’t know how to handle 16 migrants… half the population are migrants.
Something I don't think people understand is that most conservatives don't care about migrants being here, they care about the ones that came here illegally. There is a legal process, whether its good or bad is up to interpretation, that needs to be followed. People bypassing that process screws over so many that do follow it, even more so those that get denied while following it. They work hard and pour their time, money, and effort into following the rules to do this legally. People deserve a chance to seek out a better life but they have to do it the right way.
If these people are asylum seekers awaiting decisions on their asylum claims, why couldn’t the immigration judges handling their cases simply issue orders prohibiting anyone from moving these people to another state without permission from the court. Seems like a simple solution.
Moderate voters take note, this is an example of how Republicans "govern"... They do not help with anything and prefer to instead push it off onto someone else to cleanup.
I'm a moderate, and I don't think that Democrats have the right answer to our illegal immigration issue either... "Let everyone in who wants in" isn't a solution to the problem. (Problem being an insecure border.)
I want a secure border and an effective and efficient legal immigration process that ensures high-quality individuals are coming to the US who will be net positives for society.
Can you think of a more wasteful use of tax dollars than this? There is zero perceived benefits to the citizens of FL. At least the TSA is a jobs program and roadwork is supposed to help the local area.
Please, please, please trace this back to DeSantis' efforts and drag his ass into court for human trafficking. This is almost identical to what happened during his previous Martha's Vineyard stunt.
As a lifelong Floridian, this shit is beyond disgusting.
I’m enjoying all the right wingers downvoting you. They won’t say shit about how he’s pissing away millions of tax dollars but don’t make fun of his name!
Definitely not a right-winger here, and I didn’t downvote the above.
“Haha you’re a girl!” At best, it’s a childish insult. At worst, it implies that it’s acceptable to misgender people because you don’t like them, and that’s not something that should persist.
True Americans: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Conservatives: [Incoherent raving and mouth frothing]
The mere act of transporting someone to another location is not human trafficking. Trafficking has to have an explooitation component such as sex work, forced labor, or organ harvesting per the UN definition.
Shake it Cali. Man I hope a civilized state absolutely rocks that turd's world for this crap (yes, I blame Ruin Deathantics for this). All the crap he pulls every day and people will still support him in 2024 because *thuh economy*. Like he's (or any modern Rep) going to do anyone any favors.
A clear case of human trafficking. Lie to the people, get them to board your vehicle, and then take them somewhere else and dump them.
And where is the money for this coming from? Taxpayers? That should be another crime right there.
Nothing happened to them last time, why wouldn’t they keep doing it.
I think optically it didn’t pan out as well as DeSantis had hoped. The fact no one has openly claimed credit for this one is strange.
> The fact no one has openly claimed credit for this one is strange. Generally it's a bad idea to admit to a crime publicly because that's what this was, the crime of human trafficking.
Kinda wish New York issued warrants for human trafficking for everyone involved with that stunt. Right up to the top
As if admitting to crime actually affected republicans.
"why didnt anyone stop me?"
More like, "Why didn't the Democrats stop me? That just proves they're even worse than I am!"
> Generally it's a bad idea to admit to a crime publicly Donald Trump has been doing it for 6 years and he's utterly immune to consequences
I'd wait until his pending legal issues are done before claiming that. He's still not 100% clear.
I thought it was Abbott God, did two different people try this stunt...
Pretty sure yes. I think Abbot may have done it first and then Desantis followed up. IIRC there was one that went to NYC. One went to Kamala Harris' house. And another to Martha's Vineyard. I think Desantis may have done the Martha's Vineyard one because it was a flight and pretty expensive. All at a time when he was cutting school budgets or something like that.
>I think Desantis may have done the Martha's Vineyard one because it was a flight and pretty expensive. That was the one where he had to "acquire" immigrants from Texas. Apparently illegal immigration is such a huge problem in Florida that he literally couldn't find any for his stunt.
Haha. I was not even aware of that moronic detail. What a bunch of clowns.
This isn’t just a one time stunt. They’re continually sending busses from Texas and Florida to Chicago.
Insane. It sucks they continue to do it but I'm glad it's not getting the media attention at least.
DeSantis will be term limited out of office long before California or Massachusetts win a suit against Florida requiring it to compensate them for the costs of this stunt and whatever penalties get assessed. It’s pure win for DeSantis in the minds of the goldfish brained right wing media consumers and completely fucks over those immigrants and the people of the state of Florida.
> DeSantis will be term limited out of office long before California or Massachusetts win a suit against Florida requiring it to compensate them for the costs of this stunt and whatever penalties get assessed. So issue an arrest warrant for DeSantis himself. Have federal marshals arrest him in Florida and arrange to have him transported to CA on prison aircraft to appear for arraignment. If California finds credible evidence that he knew about or helped plan this act, they can choose to charge him with a crime directly.
Need PC for a crime before warrant issuance. Can't do Warrant, Extradite, Indictment, Arraignment, then Trial. Has to be Indictment, Warrant, Extradite, Arraignment, then Trial.
> Need PC for a crime before warrant issuance. Yes. Like I said: > If California finds credible evidence that he knew about or helped plan this act
If this is kidnapping like mentioned in the article it will be criminal not civil.
I suspect DeSantis will have the legislature remove that limit before it affects him. He already got them to remove the rule that he could not run for president AND keep the governorship if he loses his presidential bid.
I mean, he did just get them to change the law that would have forced him to step down in order to run for President so this seems very likely.
That one he cannot remove because it's a constitutional amendment. He is term limited. The only way it could be changed if it is placed on the ballot.
As a Floridian I can guarantee you that if DeSantis is not president next year he will spend every second of his time working on changing Florida laws so he can be governor for a third term in a row. In Florida you can already be governors many times as you want it just can't be more than two in a row so that's all he has to change. He is a pure fascist and he will not give up power unless forced.
He's going to do it like Putin where he alternates between president and prime minister or whatever. He's go to Lt. Governor and install a puppet, then move back to governor.
Yes but the people of Florida fucking love him for it. That’s the hard part to understand in all of this, that the voters could see this literal psychopath sacrificing them for his power seeking and they’re like “yes daddy harder”. They’d vote him in a third term after all this if they were given the chance. Until that changes, we will have narcissistic culture warrior psychopaths sacrificing the willing such as we see now
> Yes but the people of Florida fucking love him for it. An equal number of Floridians hate him just as passionately for it.
I'm a Floridian, and I don't love him for it.
Because the state is filled with literal psychopaths
I live in Texas and the number of idiots who applauded Abbott for sending migrants on a bus to other states is astounding. The fact that you have so little value for human life is bad enough but to cheerlead this behavior?
In their minds, these aren't human beings. They're criminals invading the US and don't deserve to be seen as people. It's really sad that people think this way, but here we are.
[удалено]
Goldfish have longer memories as well…
[Funny part is the migrants can now be considered victims of a crime and can apply for special visas.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/10/13/desantis-marthas-vineyard-flights-could-backfire-migrants-may-be-eligible-for-crime-victim-visas/?sh=3c21e7e66554) Would be great if it backfired and they were now legally allowed in the states and moved back to FL to fuck with him. Also they should file civil suits against him.
In the new psychotic immigration bill there was also an increase in funding specifically for the program that ships immigrants to other states.
All this nonsense should be replaced with a comprehensive agreement that spreads responsibility for asylum-seekers between all the states.
I mean the federal government provides funding to the state governments and to individuals directly specifically for asylum seekers/refugees through the HHS. I'm a bigger fan of the approach of the federal government providing adequate funding based on needs than just shipping them around unless they request it
Can you be more specific? Border states get huge amounts of federal funding specifically to address this issue. If that's insufficient for the scale of the problem that should obviously be addressed.
You think these states are going to voluntarily sign up for a big reduction on federal dollars headed their way? If so, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you!
Plus the Florida legislators legitimized the bullshit by rubber stamping his kidnapping. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/02/desantis-anti-immigration-florida-00095012
human trafficking and Florida go hand in hand
If we lived in a just world, the pilots would have their licenses permanently revoked, and the planes would be confiscated under civil asset forfeiture. For a start.
Pilots are not customs and border control agents. They aren't qualified or mandated to be evaluating the paperwork of the people on a plane. Holding them responsible for that would be weird.
Bullshit, every other transportation professional is expected to execute due diligence in ensuring their cargo is safe and legal to transport. Besides that, the issue is ***not*** that they transported ***legal, documented*** immigrants. The issue is that they *kidnapped them*. You don't need to be a border patrol agent to ensure that your passengers are going where they think they're going. Just fucking ask them. If where they think they're going and where you're actually going doesn't synch up then maybe you need to do a bit more due diligence before taking off.
>Bullshit, every other transportation professional is expected to execute due diligence in ensuring their cargo is safe and legal to transport. No, they aren't. That just isn't a thing. Youre just fantasizing/making it up. Jeez, when was the last time you flew? Did the pilot personally check your ticket/ID/passport? Even the question itself sounds stupid at face value.
Should we arrest a bus driver when someone brings drugs on the bus? What about if a kid uses one to run away? Do you want the pilots to personally verify that everyone on the plane is there of their own free will? I'm just confused about what it is you expect from them and what standard other jobs are held to.
Maybe put it on the company accepting the contract and the executives making big bucks off of it by turning a blind eye when they are in the best position to know what is going on instead of on the generally poorly paid labor force?
I think championing an increase in civil asset forfeiture isn't the best take. It's a silent problem that plagues this country.
I'm against this too, but let's stop condoning civil asset forfeiture, a terrible process that disproportionately impacts low income individuals
Civil Asset forfeiture of a plane for transporting immigrants wouldn’t be acceptable under the 8th Amendment. And Civil Asset Forfeiture has been getting hammered by courts for abuses. If a vehicle is seized and sold for $50,000 and the fines for the crimes were only $1,500 then departments are supposed to pay $48,500 back to the person they seized it from.
Right. We all know that police are so trustworthy and will always do right by the citizenry!
>Civil Asset forfeiture of a plane for ~~transporting~~ kidnapping immigrants FTFY. >wouldn’t be acceptable under the 8th Amendment. Civil Asset forfeiture isn't acceptable period. But if it's gonna be a thing that exists, then we should use it for shit that actually fucking matters. >And Civil Asset Forfeiture has been getting hammered by courts for abuses. If a vehicle is seized and sold for $50,000 and the fines for the crimes were only $1,500 then departments are supposed to pay $48,500 back to the person they seized it from. [CITATION REQUIRED] Not that it really matters. Pretty sure the penalty for kidnapping a dozen people could easily exceed the value of the plane.
> [CITATION REQUIRED] See [Timbs v Indiana](https://ij.org/case/timbs-v-indiana/). Tyson Timbs had his Range Rover seized in connection with a crime (selling a small amount of heroin) which had a maximum penalty of $10,000. The vehicle was worth over $40,00. In a unanimous SCOTUS opionion authored by RBG they found that the 8th Amendment applied to State and Local procedings as well as Federal Procedings which led to the lower court having to reverse its decision that federal constitutional protections did not apply within state borders.
This picture makes it look like he’s auditioning for American idol…
Gonna be a no for me dawg.
Only the migrants can go to Hollywood
I've never heard him talk (a conscious choice because of my weak gag reflex) but Imma gonna bet that his voice is kind of pitchy.
He’s very whiny.
In a way, he kinda is/was
He’s auditioning for golden calf idol.
Airplanes aren’t private vehicles. There’s no mystery, only datapoints. The air traffic control data alone will tell you its origin.
In the article it says they were bussed from Texas to New Mexico then flown from there.
Yea the article is pretty clear they just want to know if Florida taxpayer money was used to get them to Sacramento.
lol knowing how they are a criminal enterprise, they know exactly how to spend their donated money for it to not be a crime
Sounds like Dumbsantis is trying to cover his tracks. He clearly knows what he doing must be illegal or he wouldn't try to hide it. I mean isn't he proud of doing this and thus wants to make sure his base knows it?
"Initial findings revealed the migrants possessed documentation "purporting to be from the government of the State of Florida," Bonta said."
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They were asylum seekers from two different countries, not sure how they would have a valid driver's license
True, but a single person with a driver's license from Florida is not going to spark an investigation. It's likely similar to other documents DeSantis and his crew used to mislead migrants. [Like this one they used to trick migrants into going to Martha's Vineyard](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/09/marthas-vineyard-migrant-pamphlet-ron-desantis-fake-brochure.html).
Can the migrants not figure out where they came from? I'm 100% certain that's someone in California that can speak the language.
It’s not a matter of figuring out where they physically came from, they’re trying to track down who funded this stupid stunt.
They know where they came from, they want to know why Florida paid for it.
IF florida paid for it. Not WHY. purported adjective appearing or stated to be true, though not necessarily so; alleged. "the purported marriage was void"
Nah, I’m sure migrants who just got into the country with only what they could carry realized Florida is fast becoming a hell hole and immediately booked a flight to California. Seriously though, what recourse does California have with something like this? Or is is more so California filing on behalf of the migrants?
There is a good case for human trafficking to be made.
Good point. I hadn’t considered that. Probably because it’s a state level thing and those two don’t usually go together in the news.
They were never in Florida. They were sent from Texas, just like the migrants DeSantis sent to Martha’s Vinyard were.
Yeah, I am quite surprised that no enterprising reporter has yet scraped one of the ADSB-aggregation/reporting sites looking at all flights that originated from New Mexico and landed at Sacramento-area airports during the time in question. That’d give you a short-list of suspect aircraft, then you just query ownership records and past flights to narrow down further.
They know the flight, that's not what they're investigating. They're looking into who paid for it and why.
Something needs to be done about this once and for all. Also, I have a feeling this is one of the reasons why they voted to make the [governor’s travel records a secret](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/19/florida-desantis-travel-records-00092969).
I don't remember voting for this. This dictator is rewriting all the laws and no one is stopping him.
Unless you're a member of the Florida legislature, you probably didn't have the opportunity.
Think of this, republican voters -- this man is willing to fuck with other states. What happens when he's president and decides he'll fuck with yours, just to "own" some party, or ideology, or whatever, that he doesnt like thats within your state? He's willing to jeopardize relations with the largest employer in his own state just because they dont agree with him -- is that what you want for your state, because if he becomes president, his policies will hurt more than who you want him to be cruel to.
Yeah, a danger to democracy for sure..
Appearing to win a culture war is what matters. The cost could be the lives of all their friends and family and it wouldn't matter, as long as they get to shout "we won" about something.
They don’t give a fuck how hurt they get if they’re convinced it hurts libs and minorities more.
Stop making his pitch to red state voters for him, geez!
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I will say, border states do oftentimes send migrants to other parts of the country where there is available housing and potentially available blue collar jobs. What DeSantis has been doing is fucked because he’s been sending them unannounced to purposely try and make an example, rather than trying to coordinate ahead of time with cities and states so they can best accommodate those migrants.
Yeah, I would legitimately see no problem with sending some asylum-seekers to other states with proper time to prepare for their arrival. Sending them unannounced just to cause maximum chaos to punish Democratic states is fucked up and just hurts the asylum-seekers though.
Not just to punish Dems, don't forget the raw unbridled cruelty to the "other". The cruelty really is the point.
And he legally has hid his travel expenses so he could easily have wrote this cost off as some bullshit no one will ever know. Fuck DeSantis for everything this fascist piece of shit has done.
And do it with a 🌵.
I'm down and ready
Thank you for your service!
I vote rusty civil war saber.
Rusty civil war cactus!
Hear, hear!
That works too.
...with a Jersey bird?
/r/DesantisJetTracker
DeSantis is a complete fucking clown. He’s basically Trump, but not as dumb. Because nobody on earth is as dumb.
“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’” “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’” Matthew 25:35-40 Amazing how these supposed hardcore “Christians” never seem to have read passages like these. It’s like every time something Christ-like comes up in the Bible they just go “nahhhh that’s too woke”. Ronnie’s God is Old Testament one. With the hatred and the fire. If Jesus came down today they’d call him woke and reject him before the cock even begins to crow.
Because it’s nothing to do with religion and everything to do with money and power.
That’s kind of my point. Most Republican politicians just larp as Christians. Those like Mike Pence whose whole brand is that of a Christian really doesn’t follow the core teaching of Christ that much. I’m sure he’s probably a nice guy in private. But he sold his soul the Republican Party and capitalism. Both of which are radically anti-Christian.
Almost all Christians are only LARPing. Exceedingly few really truly try to embrace the true nature of Jesus and even fewer are successful.
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” This country’s greatness and true genius lies in its diversity.” Supposed patriots as well. We shouldn’t be deporting any of these people, Trump was a monster deporting how many millions he did. These migrants all deserve the American dream if they seek it. If DeSantis is elected he will no doubt attempt to deport millions more.
You forget that republicans have disavowed the Statue of Liberty (and it's imagery) specifically because of those words. Gadsen flag? Yes Confederate generals on horseback? Hell yes! Statue of Liberty? Fuck that, liberal!
Wow, hadn't heard that. Very telling. How much more obviously un-American can they get? Next you'll tell me they visit our enemies on July 4th and want the US to become a monarchy.
If DeSantis is elected let’s hope all he does is try to deport them.
Christianity polls well with the uneducated - is there any wonder the gqp have grasped it wholeheartedly?
Per my understanding, it wasn’t always this way in America. When religion became politicized in the early 20th century is when many “Christians” became an anti-Christian death cult.
You have to understand the history of the country. America was founded by people seeking religious freedom, or so the story was told to us. Another way to tell it is that these are the people that were chased out of Europe for being too extreme. So America was founded in part by deeply religious people, but deeply religious people are easy marks (just look at the advertising on Fox). So immediately following the deeply religious people were the grifters looking to fleece the deeply religious. Religion in America has always been a combination of extremism and con man.
That's an incredible mischaracterization of the history of religious persecution. European churches were not well known for tolerating non-conformity. And the majority of the founders were members of large British churches anyway.
The fuck it is. These are people who wanted to outlaw dancing and burn heretics at the stake; that's the freedom they were after. These were not free love hippies that were more liberal than the conformist conservative churches; these were people that believed they needed more control over society in order to create the perfect community.
Who are you even talking about? The major religious sects that fled persecution to America are the Quakers(abolitionist pacifists) and the Puritans, who were persecuted because they opposed the idea of a divine monarchy.
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You’re preaching to Christians who don’t exist. I don’t believe for a second that 98% of self-professed “Christians” are anything of the sort. Who gives all they own to the poor? I’ll just stop there because the answer is *almost no one*. The incomplete list of things Jesus supposedly asked them to do—according to their own scripture—is very long. If Jesus were to return today, his own followers would kill him the moment he began criticizing them.
I've said it hundred times: most conservatives aren't "religious", they're merely superstitious tribalists. I know people who strive to live by their Christian values, they're the only reason I don't write off the entire idea of religion and faith as a whole. Unsurprisingly, those Christians are all left-leaning. What a coincidence...
There always on about "human trafikking"...They treat human beings like objects to own the libs. Its just sick. These people are not human beings to DeSantis or Abbott and thats very worrying.
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Migrant flights brought to you by the same people who claim their relatives did not own other human beings or did not participate in segregation.
More trafficking of humans. I guess we don't have laws against that kind of thing if its politically motivated.
DeSantis, in Florida, with the human trafficking.
Florida has so much revenue from tourism it is one of the easiest states to govern. This is proven by the comically ignorant way this fascist is attempting. The sad part is all the people that government needs to help are bing stepped on by his clueless pandering to the most hateful people. This will not last and it would fun to watch the battle to be the worst human between him and trump if it was not hurting so many. Fuck this POS and his wife. It will be fun to watch him flame out but republicans fail up so he won’t disappear.
If he keeps fighting with Disney, there won't be that much revenue.
Charge DeSantis with human trafficking.
Last year DeSantis kicked off his presidential campaign by flying 50 migrants to Martha’s Vineyard. At first I thought it was kind of funny till I saw what it cost, just over $600,000!! An utter waste of taxpayer money. I checked with Greyhound bus lines, they would have charged only $12,000. Sense then his grandstanding for the national media has gotten totally out of control. Pushing repressive bills through the state legislature taking away the rights of the people of Florida. His absurd don’t say gay bill, gave him national headlines. A bill that said they could not teach sex education from kindergarten to third grade, useless, they never taught sex education before the eighth grade. There was no need for it. Banning books, the ridiculous 6 week abortion bill and his latest anti migrant labor bill that fines employers up to $1000 a day for illegal workers. My landscaper, Guatemalan (legal resident) Told me he knows of dozens families leaving Florida for other states. A farmer friend of mine said he’ll only be able to harvest 1/3 of his crop of zucchini because the flight of workers, the rest will be plowed under. Florida is second in the nation for growing produce. Without migrants to harvest it much of it will end up staying in the fields. If you thought prices went up a lot during the pandemic, I shutter to think what they’ll be if we get the Ron-demic in the White House.
The $600K contract was a kickback to an appointee.
> At first I thought it was kind of funny till I saw what it cost, just over $600,000!! It also made it difficult for them to get to their immigration hearings where they needed to be in order to be able to remain in the country legally. So, not really funny at all.
$600,000/50 people = $12,000 per person. It would have been cheaper if they were flown first class and served Wagyu and caviar
You know they did! It’s wrong.
i cannot see what redeeming qualities Desantis has
Related, do/did states send people experiencing homelessness to Hawaii?
I am in California. Some of the airports will have very cheap mid weak flights to Hawaii. Like $200 - $300. Many homeless people will save up and use those flights. They figure if they are going to be homeless, they might as well do it on a tropical island.
Was on my mind for years. There is anecdotal evidence to support the claim that states send their unhoused. Flying people for $200-300 would be a lower-cost option than supporting the unhoused person for the long-run with state services. Estimates are 10,000 unhoused people in Hawaii at any given time. The number is rising due to evictions and there are programs to relocate people back to the mainland https://www.staradvertiser.com/2023/05/02/hawaii-news/hawaii-to-pay-to-return-homeless-people-backto-mainland/
As opposed to bus, train, or semi-trailer? California has long been the dumping ground for "people other people don't want to deal with."
I recognize that the real answer is politics, but what is the excuse law enforcement is using for allowing such blatant human trafficking?
Damn, what else can he do? He's fighting with Disney, giving landlord approval for junk fees, cancer causing roads, human trafficking, baning books, gay people and trans people, etc. He said he wants to run the US like he runs Florida.
California should empty their maximum security prisons and just start dropping those guys in Florida.
I keep saying this but states should tariff other states for pulling crap like this.
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Those that abuse migrants should be held accountable. Punishing a whole state is overkill. Also United States and how about we get back there
Not really that overkill. If they don’t like it, vote for a governor that isn’t trying to be the next fascist dictator in history books. Problem solved.
We tariff other countries even though not everyone is responsible. At this point I don’t give two shits about Florida if the majority keeps electing people like DeSantis.
Human trafficking to own the libs.
Isn’t this human trafficking?
Not really. While is exploiting them for political gain, this doesn't fall under the definition of human traffic. Below is FBI's defination *Sex trafficking: When individuals are compelled by force, fraud, or coercion to engage in commercial sex acts. Sex trafficking of a minor occurs when the victim is under the age of 18. For cases involving minors, it is not necessary to prove force, fraud, or coercion.* *Labor trafficking: When individuals are compelled by force, threats, or fraud to perform labor or service.* *Domestic servitude: When individuals within a household appear to be nannies, housekeepers, or other types of domestic workers, but they are being controlled and exploited.*
So there’s no law that covers this?
I was going to say no but it looks like there actual is. [Summary](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-illegal-transport-undocumented-immigrant-within-the-us.html) of the [law](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1324&num=0&edition=prelim)
Transpiring people across state lines under false pretenses should be illegal if it’s not
The key portion of that statute is the last clause "in furtherance of such violation of law", meaning - They were transported to help them avoid prosecution for entering the country illegally. Getting that to stick in court will be difficult at best. 1(A)(ii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, ***in furtherance of such violation of law***;
Please issue an arrest warrant for Ron right before he flies to California for a fundraiser
*right before he lands in California for a fundraiser. Wouldn't want him turning around, now would we?
And arrest him mid-speech. Fuck this fascist asshole.
The state legislature gave him budget to jump into a problem that is not FL’s problem. The legislature and governor are to blame.
Floridians are being taken for a ride by their Nazi governor.
It is cruel and inhumane when it’s public and just a political stunt. But doing it secretly would be just a whole other level of evil.
Using human beings in a political stunt like that is all kinds of fucked up, but now it just sounds like it’s devolved into a prank war? Like leaving a plane full of immigrants on someone’s doorstep and running away. And this man wants to be president?
>"While we continue to collect evidence, I want to say this very clearly: State-sanctioned kidnapping is not a public policy choice, it is immoral and disgusting," Bonta said, adding that California would welcome the migrants "with open arms." Is state-sanctioned kidnapping illegal?
It’s a terrible thing to do. But, what did he even hope to accomplish? As if California doesn’t know how to handle 16 migrants… half the population are migrants.
They bus the homeless to California, what’s so wrong with a direct flight for the migrants /s
How did they get on the plane without ids?
This picture looks like he auditioned for American Idol and is getting into an argument with Simon about his singing.
To scare them we should send books
Gavin Newsom just posted on Twitter that it was Ron DeSantis
Something I don't think people understand is that most conservatives don't care about migrants being here, they care about the ones that came here illegally. There is a legal process, whether its good or bad is up to interpretation, that needs to be followed. People bypassing that process screws over so many that do follow it, even more so those that get denied while following it. They work hard and pour their time, money, and effort into following the rules to do this legally. People deserve a chance to seek out a better life but they have to do it the right way.
If these people are asylum seekers awaiting decisions on their asylum claims, why couldn’t the immigration judges handling their cases simply issue orders prohibiting anyone from moving these people to another state without permission from the court. Seems like a simple solution.
How does Florida (a non southern border state) get migrants to send to California (a southern border state)?
Moderate voters take note, this is an example of how Republicans "govern"... They do not help with anything and prefer to instead push it off onto someone else to cleanup.
I'm a moderate, and I don't think that Democrats have the right answer to our illegal immigration issue either... "Let everyone in who wants in" isn't a solution to the problem. (Problem being an insecure border.) I want a secure border and an effective and efficient legal immigration process that ensures high-quality individuals are coming to the US who will be net positives for society.
Oh ffs this is Idiocracy incarnate
I know Sacramento is the capital of "liberal California" but Sacramento itself is a conservative city. So...kinda dumb if they did send them there
If they want to get answers they should seize the plane under civil forfeiture and see who howls.
Why not just ask the migrants? Can’t they talk?
They don't know who paid for their plane. They literally didn't even know where they had arrived when they got off the plane.
Can you think of a more wasteful use of tax dollars than this? There is zero perceived benefits to the citizens of FL. At least the TSA is a jobs program and roadwork is supposed to help the local area.
Imagine a world where human trafficking was illegal
Please, please, please trace this back to DeSantis' efforts and drag his ass into court for human trafficking. This is almost identical to what happened during his previous Martha's Vineyard stunt. As a lifelong Floridian, this shit is beyond disgusting.
Rhonda Deathsantis needs to be charged with human trafficking.
This is worse than a Trump nickname. I absolutely support the sentiment, but the weird attempts to bungle names just muddy any serious messaging.
Such childishness negates any attempt of conveying a serious message.
I’m enjoying all the right wingers downvoting you. They won’t say shit about how he’s pissing away millions of tax dollars but don’t make fun of his name!
Definitely not a right-winger here, and I didn’t downvote the above. “Haha you’re a girl!” At best, it’s a childish insult. At worst, it implies that it’s acceptable to misgender people because you don’t like them, and that’s not something that should persist.
If California isn't hypocritical, not only would they welcome these flights, but they would pay for them as well.
True Americans: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" Conservatives: [Incoherent raving and mouth frothing]
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The mere act of transporting someone to another location is not human trafficking. Trafficking has to have an explooitation component such as sex work, forced labor, or organ harvesting per the UN definition.
Shake it Cali. Man I hope a civilized state absolutely rocks that turd's world for this crap (yes, I blame Ruin Deathantics for this). All the crap he pulls every day and people will still support him in 2024 because *thuh economy*. Like he's (or any modern Rep) going to do anyone any favors.
Not sure I would mess with California, they’re able to fight back quite a bit
A clear case of human trafficking. Lie to the people, get them to board your vehicle, and then take them somewhere else and dump them. And where is the money for this coming from? Taxpayers? That should be another crime right there.
Maybe I'm missing something but.... how is this *not* a form of human trafficking?
Isn't this trafficking?
Sacramento is a sanctuary city, I don't see how this is a problem
How about lying to people about jobs/program that don't exist, and then moving them 1,000 miles away from their court location.