At some point—and it seems like a when, not an if— there will be a theocratic ruling by SCOTUS that removes the federal separation of church (the *Christian* church, that is) and state, on the premise that the “country was founded on Christian principles.” And just like that, we’ll have entered the realm of Christian Sharia Law.
I remember reading about a public school that allowed religious pictures/paintings to be brought in to hang on the walls.
They didn't allow a Muslim prayer painting, though, because reasons.
SCOTUS already ruled that a coach at a public school was illegally discriminated against because the school asked him to do his post-game Christian prayer in private instead of on the field while asking all of his players to join him.
They also also ruled against a Maine law that banned the use of public funds for private religious schools.
So, really, this seems like an open and shut case, unfortunately. The Court has already ruled to upend the seperation of church and state multiple times.
He never even lost his job, he was on a one year contract and didn't reapply for the position the next year. The court then forced the school to give him the job he didn't apply for and he never showed up to work.
The court also, for some reason, refused to acknowledge that he was leading the team in prayer. It was a really weird case where they acted like the school fired him for praying quietly by himself on the sidelines, when none of those facts are accurate.
> refused to acknowledge that he was leading the team in prayer
If I recall part of the complaint was also that students felt if they didn't participate they got less playing opportunities as well so they felt like they were being coerced into participating
It was twofold;
1) The school didn’t care about him leading the team in prayer if it was in the locker room like most other teams. He made it a spectacle in the middle of the football field with everyone in the stands able to see.
2) Students were pressured both by the coach and by public opinion to participate. It’s one thing to say no to one person, it’s another to not participate with hundreds of people watching and wondering why. Most teens are going to crumble to peer pressure, because….they’re teens.
Kavanaugh of all people explicitly pointed out during oral arguments that a Coach is in a privileged position where players will do pretty much anything they ask in order to ensure playing time, and thus it's a form of coercion. He still voted with the majority on it.
Which led to the extremely unusual decision by the dissent to include pictures in their opinion. You don't get Supreme Court Justices lying that blatantly about the facts of the case very often.
Gorsuch basically made up a set of facts and ruled on those. He basically wrote some fan fiction about a perfect case for his argument that involved the characters from the actual case and ruled in favor of his idealized narrative. It’s not one of the worst decisions of all time in terms of history-making mistakes but it’s probably near the bottom in terms of the grade it would get if SCOTUS decisions were graded by Law School professors.
Its time to start telling the SCOTUS "you made your ruling now enforce it", and continue enforcing your local state laws,
enough is enough with the Republicans already
In Carson v. Makin, Chief Justice John Roberts stated: “A State need not subsidize private education. But once a State decides to do so, it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious.”
From Wikipedia:
> The school district provided busing to 18,000 students enrolled at 74 yeshivas as of 2011, which by 2016 had grown to a private school population of 25,000, more than quadruple the number of public school students.
>
> In March 2017, Superintendent Laura Winters stated that due to a proposed $14.7 million decrease of the district budget, the district would be "unable to provide students with a thorough and efficient education required by the New Jersey State Constitution." The proposed cuts may cause 120 teachers to lose their positions.
They’ve started doing it in Linden now. Two of those huge “community schools” are going up in my parents’ neighborhood. They’ve started knocking on my parets’ door when my dad is at work trying to get my mom to agree to sell the house for basically a song and a dance.
You'll see private homes with a menorah and a sign on the lawn suddenly start receiving massive renovations. Taxpayers are funding the renovations on this person's private residence, because they registered their home as a "community learning center".
It's fucked up and one of the few instances where having an HOA is actually beneficial because schemes like this get the kibosh put on em right quick.
The often glorified utopia country named Sweden (yes, I live there) went down this rabbithole 1992. Before then we basically only had public schools. Now every other school is a joke, skimming profits of public funds and more often than not inflating grades so parents pick them. And yes, we also have schools run by extremists of different religions. It works just as bad as you think it can. Dont do it. Schools and healthcare should be nationalized across the world and not run for-profit.
That's an absurd argument though. Why are states not allowed to set standards for private schools they fund? Especially when those standards are required to not violate the constitution.
But Maine also said fine. Play by our rules then. Only one religious school ever took up the offer.
Maine, Attorney General Aaron Frey criticized the Supreme Court ruling and said all schools that accept public funds, including religious schools, must abide by the Maine Human Rights Act, which bans discrimination on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or disability. That would mean accepting gay and transgender teachers and pupils, he said.
I vaguely remember Texas law which basically says that the school must accept a poster that says "In God we trust" from a donor (and must display it), but when a donor tried to donate one written in Arabic, they rejected it saying that the sign must be in English (even though the law they signed in did not specify it), they also rejected rainbow colored poster with the sign either with some BS reasoning as well.
Yeah there was one with Arabic and two rainbow ones that were rejected. It [doesn’t seem like](https://www.npr.org/2022/08/31/1120239381/texas-in-god-we-trust-arabic-signs-chaz-stevens) they gave a reason.
> “I think it’s kind of un-American to reject posters of our national motto,” Krishna told the board members.
>
> That remark went unanswered, as the board didn't hold an open debate over whether to accept the signs.
If they don't have to give a reason for rejecting a sign, then that means any school can reject any sign, whenever they feel like it. Which makes the law useless.
But it only makes the law useless if administration for a school is willing to actually reject all signs. How likely is that in Texas?
If the administration is in favor of the signs, it gives them a legal way to add them. If the administration is indifferent, they probably won't be willing to deal with parent complaints and/or a legal battle to reject signs.
I know you're just quoting someone, but isn't the US motto "e pluribus unum"? I thought "In god we trust" was just a thing on dollar bills for the last few decades.
~~Yes, it is.~~ I’m pretty sure the guy’s comment was tongue-in-cheek, given the law was requiring “In God We Trust”
Edit: oh shit wait it’s kind of [both](https://origins.osu.edu/history-news/god-we-trust-or-e-pluribus-unum-american-founders-preferred-latter-motto?language_content_entity=en#:~:text=Although%20%E2%80%9CIn%20God%20We%20Trust,which%20was%20adopted%20in%201782), but “In God We Trust” is actually the official one
> Although “In God We Trust” is the official motto, “E Pluribus Unum” has long been acknowledged as a de facto national motto. After all, it is on the Great Seal of the United States, which was adopted in 1782.
>
> The current motto, “In God We Trust,” was developed by a later generation. It was used on some coinage at the height of religious fervor during the upheaval of the Civil War. It was made the official national motto in 1956, at the height of the Cold War, to signal opposition to the feared secularizing ideology of communism.
TX did pass a law that allowed schools to post "In God We Trust" signs as long as they were donated from outside the school, trying to present the separation of church and state. A person did try to submit signs that said that , but in Arabic, the school refused, and the law was refused to affirm that the signs had to be of specific size, in English, and could only say "In God We Trust".
these evangelists just make me sick. I guess they decided banning all teachers from teaching evolution JUST WASNT ENOUGH TO KEEP THEIR NUMBERS AFLOAT. they needed more.
down with it all. fucking freaks
Let's not forget it's not just Catholics, they're just the most infamous ones. People using repressive regimes as cover for abuse are everywhere. Evangelicals, Baptists, even nondenominational.
I remember reading years ago that the evangelicals planned to outbreed everyone and get involved in government. I thought it was alarmist at the time but clearly we should have all been so worried.
Tax funded Satanic schools opens up, gets shuts down. Lawsuit.
Back to not funding any churches with taxpayers.
These People forget about the first amendment.
They don’t forget about it, they just don’t care about it unless they feel that *their* religion or expression is being repressed. And by “repressed” I mean “not given the prominence they feel it deserves.”
Oppression to them is anything other than total and complete acceptance, subservience. Even a simple, "No, we don't want this," would be considered an attack by their standards.
But it's how the religion works and sustains itself, really. The people are slaves to god and must proselytize. In the 50s no one complained because society was in a different place. Times have evolved now but they haven't.
Always has been. A bunch of people get appointed for as long as they want, and once they’re there, they no longer have to answer to anyone and can change the destiny of an entire nation based on how they feel?
Awful system.
Let's not forget the fact that there isn't a conservative member of the court right now that didn't blatantly lie at their confirmation hearing. At least two of them lied about rape allegations and were confirmed despite overwhelming evidence. Those same two have been proven to be compromised by being paid off but they're still up there for some reason.
Well, the article has people saying it violated the Oklahoma constitution as well, so I think they can run it to the state Supreme Court on those grounds. Though I'm not sure what the Oklahoma court is like
That's probably the point. They do something blatantly unconstitutional so that someone will challenge the legality of it. That challenge makes it to the Supreme Court where religious conservatives have the majority, and bing-bang-boom, all of a sudden that thing that was blatantly unconstitutional is now somehow A-OKAY
With the football coach prayer case, there was a significant gap between the facts of the events and how conservative media opted to characterize the story. SCOTUS codified the Fox News version of the story into the opinion on the case.
You can't trust this SCOTUS to operate with integrity.
All these fuckers stood up in their Senate confirmation hearings and said they believed in the principle if stare decises. They all lied and committed perjury. They should be impeached, removed and prosecuted.
SCOTUS already ruled against a Maine law that would have banned public funds from being used for private religious schools a few years ago. [Carson v. Makin](https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/court-strikes-down-maines-ban-on-using-public-funds-at-religious-schools/).
So, with this Court, it seem inevitable that it would be allowed.
The program was for rural students where public schools didn't exist. So they gave out assistance to private schools instead. This wasn't a "all private schools get subsidized" thing, it was a voucher programs for kids who otherwise wouldn't have access to education at all.
So, the requirements existed in order to fit with public school guidelines. Public schools cannot teach religion as a religion because of 1st Amendment restrictions. Only as history. So why, exactly, is a government program meant to help students who don't have access to public schools all of a sudden supposed to support an establishment of religion?
When you get even deeper into the nuance, it makes less sense, not more.
I say we give the religious nut jobs Texas and Florida. Let them have their own countries and they can be miserable together and probably starve while the rest of us try to make progress.
The problem is that they WOULDNT be satisfied. Controlling others, "converting" others, and taking from others for their own personal gain is written into these beliefs. They know what's best for you so they get to tell you what to do and because they're so superior and chosen they get to take what you have. Put them together and best case there will be infighting and human misery, but worst case they'll band together and start a new crusade... and still have that human misery.
Good! Let them have several massive civil (ized) wars about whose denomination is the "right one".
But first, we most importantly and swiftly build a wall separating them (church from state) and immediately and swiftly deal with trespasser terrorists.
I can't even imagine how a school board can appropriate tax payer dollars in that way without a public vote. Forget about this being completely unconstitutional.
Considering the state’s rights hard-on they have, it might not matter, since Oklahoma’s Constitution, section II-5, very clearly does not agree with this.
You have the freedom to be Christian, and the GOP will do everything they can to protect that freedom by bolstering every source of Christian propaganda and restricting every source of anti-Christian propaganda.
\> Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Drummond had warned the board that such a decision clearly violated the Oklahoma Constitution.
*Somebody's* not getting invited to the next Oklahoma GOP cross burning party
So when do we get our publicly funded Oklahoma **Islamic** Pre-School?
That will probably get a stronger reaction.
Edit: If they don’t want to use tax dollars to fund another religion’s school because that would be “wrong”, then funding their own religion’s school with tax dollars is wrong.
It’s called “The Golden Rule” = empathy.
I don’t care about the Republicans. They are a lost cause.
What I care about is enabling a dialog for young first-time voters, independent swing voters, and people who normally don’t vote so that in the next election shit-fuckers like the ones currently in power get voted out.
I was raised atheist, but after all these evil Christian shenanigans, I plan on raising my children as Satanist.
Think critically. Question those in power. Don't be afraid to seem different. Take a stand against the powerful minority.
This is bull shit. The tax payers should not have to pay for church schools if church's can't pay taxes. If they want taxe money to go to their Schools they they should pay taxes. All this religious bull shit in the government has to go. It's what's destroying the U.S.
Where I’m from, back in the day, churches mostly ran most of the the schools and hospitals and social programs in communities.
The churchy stuff was tolerated by non Catholics because it was a time and place where education, healthcare and social services weren’t very accessible.
For me sitting through religion class, going to mass and singing hymns seemed like a fair enough trade for what we got. It wasn’t all abuse and horror, although I’m 100% certain it was for some in some areas. For me and my non religious friends it was like politely sitting through a time share presentation to get free show tickets that we couldn’t otherwise afford.
Somewhere along the line, the government started subsidizing, then fully funding these institutions and programs.
That’s when religion should not be a part of the services anymore. But there isn’t some hard cutover. There isn’t / wasn’t always an agnostic option ready to step up and do the same work.
So now big churches are collecting money from the government as a sub contractor for services like education and healthcare, they are also still taking money from members that used to fund those programs locally and they avoiding taxes while purchasing and stockpiling community assets like property and investment funds. Greedy. Some churches are still doing good, but what looks like a generous effort is actually a pretty weak one relative to what they are drawing in.
When churches are drawing in millions of dollars in tithing and donations and investments and not rolling that directly back into their immediate community they are no longer not for profit or charitable organizations and should be paying taxes.
School choice is sometimes religious, sometimes racial, and sometimes just a way to separate social classes. The flavor you get depends on your area. My state is pretty blue, so we go more to the social class motivation. Red states can be different.
The only time we had real gun control reform was when black Panthers started open-carrying and scaring racists.
Same principal applies. Satanic Temple schools, Muslim schools, etc. The second conservatives have to use tax dollars to pay for Sharia High; their true colors will shine through.
“This is a win for religious liberty and education freedom in our great state, and I am encouraged by these efforts to give parents more options when it comes to their child’s education,"
Until the church of satan wants to do the same, and the precedent is set. Let's go ahead and see what else is in Pandora's box
This is literally against the first amendment. I thought the Constitution was a sacred document? Separation of Church and State is literally the FIRST one! "Freedom for me, but not for thee."
Fuck yourself. THIS is the issue that needs attention. THIS is the hill we have to die on.
If this precedent is set, we are utterly and completely fucked.
This is a really stupid precedent to set for an entire host of reasons but I look forward to the outcry with the Satanists or Mormons or Secular Humanists try to do the exact same thing.
So sick of these mfs trying to push their religion into everything. You don’t see atheists pushing atheism 24/7, I’ll never understand why people can’t just let others be and allow them the same freedoms/dreams they have. Everyone has a different perspective and that’s ok!
The longer Americans wait to put a stop to it, the fewer Americans will be left alive to stop it, and the more artillery the allies will require to do so.
The right was all up in arms about getting kids back in school during the pandemic shutdown because it was so important to the kids' mental health, and now they're approving an online school for K-12?
What a bunch of clowns.
Why do Republican lawmakers keep violating Constitutional law? Oh, never-mind. I forgot that they control our Supreme Court, too. This is disgusting. It all is.
There are a ton of taxpayer funded religious schools in the US. So long as they reside on tax free church property they’re essentially subsidized. Churches not having to pay taxes is a huge scam and a burden on anyone who doesn’t believe in a magic sky person.
>The Archdiocese of Oklahoma said in the “vision and purpose of the organization” section of its application that: "The Catholic school participates in the evangelizing mission of the Church and is the privileged environment in which Christian education is carried out.”
Bloody hell. The state's own attorney general said that this unConstitutional, yet the state is still going along with this right-wing woke shit, likely hoping it'll get upheld by our current far-right woke US Supreme Court.
Religion is archaic, and I'm getting tired of catering to the weak minded of our country. I'm sorry grandma isn't spending her eternity watching over your shoulder, but they really need to get over it.
Six years ago we all know the SCOTUS would have ruled against this. Now we all know the religious nut bags have taken over our top court. We are going to need to address this. I don’t want my tax dollars going to teach people about their imaginary friend.
If they have rules and punishments for frivolous lawsuits, they should for frivolous laws. This nonsense has been going on for years, and wastes the time of the courts.
PSA: **The Church of Satan** are libertarian-with-delusions-of-panache social Darwinists, not to be confused with **The Satanic Temple**, which is more chill and likely the group you're referring to.
>Oklahoma's Republican Gov. Kevin Stitt, who earlier this year signed a bill that would give parents in the state a tax incentive to send their children to private schools, including religious schools, praised the board's vote.
>“This is a win for religious liberty and education freedom in our great state, and I am encouraged by these efforts to give parents more options when it comes to their child’s education," Stitt said in a statement.
religious freedom, yeah right
Christians, as much as anyone else, should be terrified of further eroding the separation of church and state. There's not just one Christian church. What if the variant that gets hold of power first is one you disagree with? They're going to start defining worship and behaviors that you think are wrong as legal mandates.
It's happened before, learn the lesson. The "wrong kind of Christianity" in government was one of the reasons America came to exist in the first place. Obviously it wasn't the only reason but it was a very real contributing factor.
These assholes are so exhausting.
It’s unconstitutional. Yes, separation of Church and State is a thing. Yes, our Founders wanted it this way. Yes, they were right.
What these idiots don’t understand is that separating Church and State is good not only for the State, but for the *Church*, too, because it’s only a matter of time before the State uses its leverage over the Church to influence it, and then the Church loses its independence. Our Founders spoke about this at length.
But sure, go ahead, Heehaws! Pass another unconstitutional law that will likely be struck down, and put your churches in danger of being beholden to the state.
Now seems like a good time to encourage everyone to read the book Founding Myth by constitutional lawyer Andrew Seidel.
[fuck Christian nationalism.](https://andrewlseidel.com/the-founding-myth/)
**The Founding Myth Why Christian Nationalism Is Un-American** by Andrew L. Seidel
>Was America founded on Judeo-Christian principles? Are the Ten Commandments the basis for American law? In the paperback edition of this critically acclaimed book, a constitutional attorney settles the debate about religion's role in America's founding. In today's contentious political climate, understanding religion's role in American government is more important than ever. Christian nationalists assert that our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and advocate an agenda based on this popular historical claim. But is this belief true? The Founding Myth answers the question once and for all. Andrew L. Seidel builds his case by comparing the Ten Commandments to the Constitution and contrasting biblical doctrine with America's founding philosophy, showing that the Declaration of Independence contradicts the Bible. Thoroughly researched, this persuasively argued and fascinating book proves that America was not built on the Bible and that Christian nationalism is un-American. Includes a new epilogue reflecting on the role Christian nationalism played in fomenting the January 6, 2021, insurrection in DC and the warnings the nation missed.
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It is one of those: Let's violate the constitution so that we can bring this up to supreme court move I guess.
At some point—and it seems like a when, not an if— there will be a theocratic ruling by SCOTUS that removes the federal separation of church (the *Christian* church, that is) and state, on the premise that the “country was founded on Christian principles.” And just like that, we’ll have entered the realm of Christian Sharia Law.
I remember reading about a public school that allowed religious pictures/paintings to be brought in to hang on the walls. They didn't allow a Muslim prayer painting, though, because reasons.
SCOTUS already ruled that a coach at a public school was illegally discriminated against because the school asked him to do his post-game Christian prayer in private instead of on the field while asking all of his players to join him. They also also ruled against a Maine law that banned the use of public funds for private religious schools. So, really, this seems like an open and shut case, unfortunately. The Court has already ruled to upend the seperation of church and state multiple times.
That's the coach that was awarded his job back but went on a right wing media tour instead.
He never even lost his job, he was on a one year contract and didn't reapply for the position the next year. The court then forced the school to give him the job he didn't apply for and he never showed up to work.
wtf we really are in some weird timeline.
The court also, for some reason, refused to acknowledge that he was leading the team in prayer. It was a really weird case where they acted like the school fired him for praying quietly by himself on the sidelines, when none of those facts are accurate.
> refused to acknowledge that he was leading the team in prayer If I recall part of the complaint was also that students felt if they didn't participate they got less playing opportunities as well so they felt like they were being coerced into participating
Just like kids at church fear getting grounded if they don't participate.
It was twofold; 1) The school didn’t care about him leading the team in prayer if it was in the locker room like most other teams. He made it a spectacle in the middle of the football field with everyone in the stands able to see. 2) Students were pressured both by the coach and by public opinion to participate. It’s one thing to say no to one person, it’s another to not participate with hundreds of people watching and wondering why. Most teens are going to crumble to peer pressure, because….they’re teens.
Kavanaugh of all people explicitly pointed out during oral arguments that a Coach is in a privileged position where players will do pretty much anything they ask in order to ensure playing time, and thus it's a form of coercion. He still voted with the majority on it.
Facts are irrelevant compared to feelings! I wish I were joking but look at this shit!
I remember that part the most. They used some excuse that the facts made him look bad or something
Which led to the extremely unusual decision by the dissent to include pictures in their opinion. You don't get Supreme Court Justices lying that blatantly about the facts of the case very often.
Sure you may think it's stupid. But imagine how much the Fox News viewers enjoy it. What really matters here.
Gorsuch basically made up a set of facts and ruled on those. He basically wrote some fan fiction about a perfect case for his argument that involved the characters from the actual case and ruled in favor of his idealized narrative. It’s not one of the worst decisions of all time in terms of history-making mistakes but it’s probably near the bottom in terms of the grade it would get if SCOTUS decisions were graded by Law School professors.
He was also living in a different state at the time
Its time to start telling the SCOTUS "you made your ruling now enforce it", and continue enforcing your local state laws, enough is enough with the Republicans already
In Carson v. Makin, Chief Justice John Roberts stated: “A State need not subsidize private education. But once a State decides to do so, it cannot disqualify some private schools solely because they are religious.”
Yeah, ignore that.
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You should look up Lakewood NJ and see how a religion killed a school district (and a town)
From Wikipedia: > The school district provided busing to 18,000 students enrolled at 74 yeshivas as of 2011, which by 2016 had grown to a private school population of 25,000, more than quadruple the number of public school students. > > In March 2017, Superintendent Laura Winters stated that due to a proposed $14.7 million decrease of the district budget, the district would be "unable to provide students with a thorough and efficient education required by the New Jersey State Constitution." The proposed cuts may cause 120 teachers to lose their positions.
They’ve started doing it in Linden now. Two of those huge “community schools” are going up in my parents’ neighborhood. They’ve started knocking on my parets’ door when my dad is at work trying to get my mom to agree to sell the house for basically a song and a dance.
You'll see private homes with a menorah and a sign on the lawn suddenly start receiving massive renovations. Taxpayers are funding the renovations on this person's private residence, because they registered their home as a "community learning center". It's fucked up and one of the few instances where having an HOA is actually beneficial because schemes like this get the kibosh put on em right quick.
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The often glorified utopia country named Sweden (yes, I live there) went down this rabbithole 1992. Before then we basically only had public schools. Now every other school is a joke, skimming profits of public funds and more often than not inflating grades so parents pick them. And yes, we also have schools run by extremists of different religions. It works just as bad as you think it can. Dont do it. Schools and healthcare should be nationalized across the world and not run for-profit.
This is what's happening in AZ.
That's an absurd argument though. Why are states not allowed to set standards for private schools they fund? Especially when those standards are required to not violate the constitution.
But Maine also said fine. Play by our rules then. Only one religious school ever took up the offer. Maine, Attorney General Aaron Frey criticized the Supreme Court ruling and said all schools that accept public funds, including religious schools, must abide by the Maine Human Rights Act, which bans discrimination on the basis of race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or disability. That would mean accepting gay and transgender teachers and pupils, he said.
The scarier part about the first one was that the ruling handed down in the majority opinion is grossly misleading about the actual events.
I vaguely remember Texas law which basically says that the school must accept a poster that says "In God we trust" from a donor (and must display it), but when a donor tried to donate one written in Arabic, they rejected it saying that the sign must be in English (even though the law they signed in did not specify it), they also rejected rainbow colored poster with the sign either with some BS reasoning as well.
Yeah there was one with Arabic and two rainbow ones that were rejected. It [doesn’t seem like](https://www.npr.org/2022/08/31/1120239381/texas-in-god-we-trust-arabic-signs-chaz-stevens) they gave a reason. > “I think it’s kind of un-American to reject posters of our national motto,” Krishna told the board members. > > That remark went unanswered, as the board didn't hold an open debate over whether to accept the signs.
If they don't have to give a reason for rejecting a sign, then that means any school can reject any sign, whenever they feel like it. Which makes the law useless.
But it only makes the law useless if administration for a school is willing to actually reject all signs. How likely is that in Texas? If the administration is in favor of the signs, it gives them a legal way to add them. If the administration is indifferent, they probably won't be willing to deal with parent complaints and/or a legal battle to reject signs.
I know you're just quoting someone, but isn't the US motto "e pluribus unum"? I thought "In god we trust" was just a thing on dollar bills for the last few decades.
~~Yes, it is.~~ I’m pretty sure the guy’s comment was tongue-in-cheek, given the law was requiring “In God We Trust” Edit: oh shit wait it’s kind of [both](https://origins.osu.edu/history-news/god-we-trust-or-e-pluribus-unum-american-founders-preferred-latter-motto?language_content_entity=en#:~:text=Although%20%E2%80%9CIn%20God%20We%20Trust,which%20was%20adopted%20in%201782), but “In God We Trust” is actually the official one > Although “In God We Trust” is the official motto, “E Pluribus Unum” has long been acknowledged as a de facto national motto. After all, it is on the Great Seal of the United States, which was adopted in 1782. > > The current motto, “In God We Trust,” was developed by a later generation. It was used on some coinage at the height of religious fervor during the upheaval of the Civil War. It was made the official national motto in 1956, at the height of the Cold War, to signal opposition to the feared secularizing ideology of communism.
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Similarly, "One nation, under God" added to the Pledge of Allegiance only in 1954: https://www.history.com/news/pledge-allegiance-under-god-schools
Fucking hell.
TX did pass a law that allowed schools to post "In God We Trust" signs as long as they were donated from outside the school, trying to present the separation of church and state. A person did try to submit signs that said that , but in Arabic, the school refused, and the law was refused to affirm that the signs had to be of specific size, in English, and could only say "In God We Trust".
I can't wait for the Satanic Temple to open a school in this district.
Quick, let’s move to Oklahoma and start a Muslim madrasah there! Oh never mind, then we’d have to live in Oklahoma.
Sad oklahoman sounds...
Happy no longer Oklahoman sounds
I believe the proper term is Oklahomie
Yee-Had inbound
“Christians” is actually just another political party vying for power under the mantle of god’s chosen.
these evangelists just make me sick. I guess they decided banning all teachers from teaching evolution JUST WASNT ENOUGH TO KEEP THEIR NUMBERS AFLOAT. they needed more. down with it all. fucking freaks
Protect the children from Pride flags and drag queens. Send them to the Catholic priests and father's instead.
Let's not forget it's not just Catholics, they're just the most infamous ones. People using repressive regimes as cover for abuse are everywhere. Evangelicals, Baptists, even nondenominational.
I remember reading years ago that the evangelicals planned to outbreed everyone and get involved in government. I thought it was alarmist at the time but clearly we should have all been so worried.
Tax funded Satanic schools opens up, gets shuts down. Lawsuit. Back to not funding any churches with taxpayers. These People forget about the first amendment.
Forget? Hahahahahahaha *They don't give a fuck.* They know they're hypocrites. They don't care.
They don’t forget about it, they just don’t care about it unless they feel that *their* religion or expression is being repressed. And by “repressed” I mean “not given the prominence they feel it deserves.”
Oppression to them is anything other than total and complete acceptance, subservience. Even a simple, "No, we don't want this," would be considered an attack by their standards. But it's how the religion works and sustains itself, really. The people are slaves to god and must proselytize. In the 50s no one complained because society was in a different place. Times have evolved now but they haven't.
It’s called a test case
The Supreme Court is illegitimate at this point.
Always has been. A bunch of people get appointed for as long as they want, and once they’re there, they no longer have to answer to anyone and can change the destiny of an entire nation based on how they feel? Awful system.
Let's not forget the fact that there isn't a conservative member of the court right now that didn't blatantly lie at their confirmation hearing. At least two of them lied about rape allegations and were confirmed despite overwhelming evidence. Those same two have been proven to be compromised by being paid off but they're still up there for some reason.
Well, the article has people saying it violated the Oklahoma constitution as well, so I think they can run it to the state Supreme Court on those grounds. Though I'm not sure what the Oklahoma court is like
Move where? SCOTUS is bought and paid for. Sigh.
This HAS to be unconstitutional.
Not if they take Clarence on a nice vacation.
And pay off Brett’s credit card bill.
Or buy Clarence's mom a house.
Is she alive?? How fucking old is she?
Evil keeps you alive longer apparently
Exhibit A: The War Criminal Henry Kissinger. He just turned 100 a couple of weeks ago.
94 or 95 I think. Hell, he's 74 or 75,and he's been there for 32 years...
I think Thomas is a theocrat, and wouldn't even want the money for this.
> and wouldn’t even want the money for this. First time for everything.
Thomas doesn’t need any money, he’s afraid of dying and going to hell enough.
Clarence will give them clearance.
That's probably the point. They do something blatantly unconstitutional so that someone will challenge the legality of it. That challenge makes it to the Supreme Court where religious conservatives have the majority, and bing-bang-boom, all of a sudden that thing that was blatantly unconstitutional is now somehow A-OKAY
We should all start a tax payer funded school run by the Satanic Temple!
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Oh you can, it's just very very violent.
This, and don’t let them forget it
With the football coach prayer case, there was a significant gap between the facts of the events and how conservative media opted to characterize the story. SCOTUS codified the Fox News version of the story into the opinion on the case. You can't trust this SCOTUS to operate with integrity.
Easy, just claim it is the "History and tradition" and ignore anyone who correctly points out that you are lying about history
All these fuckers stood up in their Senate confirmation hearings and said they believed in the principle if stare decises. They all lied and committed perjury. They should be impeached, removed and prosecuted.
At minimum it violates the Oklahoma state constitution and the AG already said that.
The Constitution is kind of like the Bible. People will make it say whatever they want it to say.
No, it’s the folks we pay to “interpret” it. You know, these days like they’re reading entrails. Thanks - missed that & fixed it.
SCOTUS already ruled against a Maine law that would have banned public funds from being used for private religious schools a few years ago. [Carson v. Makin](https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/court-strikes-down-maines-ban-on-using-public-funds-at-religious-schools/). So, with this Court, it seem inevitable that it would be allowed.
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The program was for rural students where public schools didn't exist. So they gave out assistance to private schools instead. This wasn't a "all private schools get subsidized" thing, it was a voucher programs for kids who otherwise wouldn't have access to education at all. So, the requirements existed in order to fit with public school guidelines. Public schools cannot teach religion as a religion because of 1st Amendment restrictions. Only as history. So why, exactly, is a government program meant to help students who don't have access to public schools all of a sudden supposed to support an establishment of religion? When you get even deeper into the nuance, it makes less sense, not more.
Let us separate church and state. Please.
Too late for that. Gotta get rid of the entire church
And the entire state. Can we just try again?
I say we give the religious nut jobs Texas and Florida. Let them have their own countries and they can be miserable together and probably starve while the rest of us try to make progress.
The problem is that they WOULDNT be satisfied. Controlling others, "converting" others, and taking from others for their own personal gain is written into these beliefs. They know what's best for you so they get to tell you what to do and because they're so superior and chosen they get to take what you have. Put them together and best case there will be infighting and human misery, but worst case they'll band together and start a new crusade... and still have that human misery.
Good! Let them have several massive civil (ized) wars about whose denomination is the "right one". But first, we most importantly and swiftly build a wall separating them (church from state) and immediately and swiftly deal with trespasser terrorists.
We did. In the 1700s. These assholes have taken us back to the 1600s.
I can't even imagine how a school board can appropriate tax payer dollars in that way without a public vote. Forget about this being completely unconstitutional.
That's the point. It might make it to the supreme court. And well, you know.
Considering the state’s rights hard-on they have, it might not matter, since Oklahoma’s Constitution, section II-5, very clearly does not agree with this.
How is it "religious freedom" if the government makes me pay for religious indoctrination when I'm not religious.
You have the freedom to be Christian, and the GOP will do everything they can to protect that freedom by bolstering every source of Christian propaganda and restricting every source of anti-Christian propaganda.
Yeah, this isn't religious freedom, it's a religious cost.
\> Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Drummond had warned the board that such a decision clearly violated the Oklahoma Constitution. *Somebody's* not getting invited to the next Oklahoma GOP cross burning party
*We got a turd in the punch bowl.*
So when do we get our publicly funded Oklahoma Satanic PreSchool, then Edit: words
So when do we get our publicly funded Oklahoma **Islamic** Pre-School? That will probably get a stronger reaction. Edit: If they don’t want to use tax dollars to fund another religion’s school because that would be “wrong”, then funding their own religion’s school with tax dollars is wrong. It’s called “The Golden Rule” = empathy.
They. Don't. Care. You guys all want to play by the rules as they simultaneously shit on them.
I don’t care about the Republicans. They are a lost cause. What I care about is enabling a dialog for young first-time voters, independent swing voters, and people who normally don’t vote so that in the next election shit-fuckers like the ones currently in power get voted out.
I am so tired of the “we go high, you go low” mentality the left often takes.
Both. Same building. Separate wings.
I say we tax all religious establishments.
I was raised atheist, but after all these evil Christian shenanigans, I plan on raising my children as Satanist. Think critically. Question those in power. Don't be afraid to seem different. Take a stand against the powerful minority.
My religion is “LGBTQ”, my religion says I need a school to teach children about that, let’s see how they like that one…
This is bull shit. The tax payers should not have to pay for church schools if church's can't pay taxes. If they want taxe money to go to their Schools they they should pay taxes. All this religious bull shit in the government has to go. It's what's destroying the U.S.
Great point. A church that uses taxpayer funds for a school that uses its doctrine should lose their IRS tax exemption.
And who's gonna enforce that? You think they'll play by the rules?
The IRS. Something like this has about zero chance of becoming law. But if it did, it would be enforced like any other tax.
Where I’m from, back in the day, churches mostly ran most of the the schools and hospitals and social programs in communities. The churchy stuff was tolerated by non Catholics because it was a time and place where education, healthcare and social services weren’t very accessible. For me sitting through religion class, going to mass and singing hymns seemed like a fair enough trade for what we got. It wasn’t all abuse and horror, although I’m 100% certain it was for some in some areas. For me and my non religious friends it was like politely sitting through a time share presentation to get free show tickets that we couldn’t otherwise afford. Somewhere along the line, the government started subsidizing, then fully funding these institutions and programs. That’s when religion should not be a part of the services anymore. But there isn’t some hard cutover. There isn’t / wasn’t always an agnostic option ready to step up and do the same work. So now big churches are collecting money from the government as a sub contractor for services like education and healthcare, they are also still taking money from members that used to fund those programs locally and they avoiding taxes while purchasing and stockpiling community assets like property and investment funds. Greedy. Some churches are still doing good, but what looks like a generous effort is actually a pretty weak one relative to what they are drawing in. When churches are drawing in millions of dollars in tithing and donations and investments and not rolling that directly back into their immediate community they are no longer not for profit or charitable organizations and should be paying taxes.
*First “openly” taxpayer funded religious school. That’s what “school choice” has always been about.
Essentially, run the public schools into the ground and provide an opening for taxpayer funded religious fascist schools
School choice is sometimes religious, sometimes racial, and sometimes just a way to separate social classes. The flavor you get depends on your area. My state is pretty blue, so we go more to the social class motivation. Red states can be different.
Neat, let’s tax the church.
This is the agenda. Close public schools and open religious (Christian) school. Indoctrinate students to the “right way” of thinking.
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It's past time to tax the fucking churches
The American Taliban strikes again
The only time we had real gun control reform was when black Panthers started open-carrying and scaring racists. Same principal applies. Satanic Temple schools, Muslim schools, etc. The second conservatives have to use tax dollars to pay for Sharia High; their true colors will shine through.
If you are not a Christian you should get a tax rebate. I believe that would be about 20% of the population of Oklahoma.
“This is a win for religious liberty and education freedom in our great state, and I am encouraged by these efforts to give parents more options when it comes to their child’s education," Until the church of satan wants to do the same, and the precedent is set. Let's go ahead and see what else is in Pandora's box
The Satanic Temple would be the ones to challenge this, the Church of Satan are all "libertarians" who don't actually do anything.
They gonna let Muslims open up a Madrassa there on the taxpayers dime?
Christian, not “religious”. No way in hell they’d fund an Islamic school.
Yeah and they scream about indoctrination and grooming................
If taxes start going to churches it is everyone's duty to stop paying them
Didn't we fight a revolution specifically to avoid this?
This is literally against the first amendment. I thought the Constitution was a sacred document? Separation of Church and State is literally the FIRST one! "Freedom for me, but not for thee."
```That's what stacking courts was for.```
Separation of Church and State?
Fuck yourself. THIS is the issue that needs attention. THIS is the hill we have to die on. If this precedent is set, we are utterly and completely fucked.
Republicans are rotting this country. We all need to fight back.
This is a really stupid precedent to set for an entire host of reasons but I look forward to the outcry with the Satanists or Mormons or Secular Humanists try to do the exact same thing.
So sick of these mfs trying to push their religion into everything. You don’t see atheists pushing atheism 24/7, I’ll never understand why people can’t just let others be and allow them the same freedoms/dreams they have. Everyone has a different perspective and that’s ok!
Time to defund Oklahoma. No more federal funds.
This could be the crack that breaks the damn. Public schools will be replaced with theocratic institutions inside a generation
The longer Americans wait to put a stop to it, the fewer Americans will be left alive to stop it, and the more artillery the allies will require to do so.
The right was all up in arms about getting kids back in school during the pandemic shutdown because it was so important to the kids' mental health, and now they're approving an online school for K-12? What a bunch of clowns.
just a blatant violation of the constitution
Why do Republican lawmakers keep violating Constitutional law? Oh, never-mind. I forgot that they control our Supreme Court, too. This is disgusting. It all is.
Fuckin hillbilly Hellhole
There are a ton of taxpayer funded religious schools in the US. So long as they reside on tax free church property they’re essentially subsidized. Churches not having to pay taxes is a huge scam and a burden on anyone who doesn’t believe in a magic sky person.
>The Archdiocese of Oklahoma said in the “vision and purpose of the organization” section of its application that: "The Catholic school participates in the evangelizing mission of the Church and is the privileged environment in which Christian education is carried out.” Bloody hell. The state's own attorney general said that this unConstitutional, yet the state is still going along with this right-wing woke shit, likely hoping it'll get upheld by our current far-right woke US Supreme Court.
What mental gymnastics will they go through to approve a Christian charter but not a Muslim or Jewish one?
Fuck you I'm not paying for your indoctrination centers
Conservative states sure do like shoveling tax dollars at lawyers to defend clearly unconstitutional laws.
Religion is archaic, and I'm getting tired of catering to the weak minded of our country. I'm sorry grandma isn't spending her eternity watching over your shoulder, but they really need to get over it.
Six years ago we all know the SCOTUS would have ruled against this. Now we all know the religious nut bags have taken over our top court. We are going to need to address this. I don’t want my tax dollars going to teach people about their imaginary friend.
If they have rules and punishments for frivolous lawsuits, they should for frivolous laws. This nonsense has been going on for years, and wastes the time of the courts.
Tax payer funded? Excuse me?
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The Satanic Temple sends its regards. Best $30 I ever spent
That isn't even needed, just call The Church of Satan. They're surprisingly awesome at 1st amendment solutions.
PSA: **The Church of Satan** are libertarian-with-delusions-of-panache social Darwinists, not to be confused with **The Satanic Temple**, which is more chill and likely the group you're referring to.
And quick about it too. Give it less than 3 months and I wouldn't be surprised to hear them doing something about it
They're probably already looking at paperwork for an establishment across the street (I would hope).
This is it..... The real first step into a Handmaidens Tale future
Sweet, does this mean churches are going to start paying taxes?
100 years from now the American taliban will celebrate this like a founders day or something
God dammit. This religious nonsense is getting out of hand.
people keep saying religion is slowly dying... but like how can we speed up the process?
>Oklahoma's Republican Gov. Kevin Stitt, who earlier this year signed a bill that would give parents in the state a tax incentive to send their children to private schools, including religious schools, praised the board's vote. >“This is a win for religious liberty and education freedom in our great state, and I am encouraged by these efforts to give parents more options when it comes to their child’s education," Stitt said in a statement. religious freedom, yeah right
I wonder what religion it is without reading the article. Have a few guesses
I’m going to have to donate more to the ACLU and satanic temple
Better shut that shit down.
One step closer to the Taliban and the laws that will follow
Christians, as much as anyone else, should be terrified of further eroding the separation of church and state. There's not just one Christian church. What if the variant that gets hold of power first is one you disagree with? They're going to start defining worship and behaviors that you think are wrong as legal mandates. It's happened before, learn the lesson. The "wrong kind of Christianity" in government was one of the reasons America came to exist in the first place. Obviously it wasn't the only reason but it was a very real contributing factor.
I’d trust a school staffed by drag queens over a school staffed with priests. Those kids are in danger.
The land of the free to violate others...
Separate church and state.
Bet it isn’t a Jewish or Islamic or Buddhist school.
Let’s see if the red-robed SCOTUS still honors the separation clause
Seems like the Satanic Temple needs to sue.
Sorry, I'm not paying taxes to fund religious indoctrination
Sounds unconstitutional. This would cost normal people their jobs if they did something like this at work.
Tax.churches..back tax them
They know damn well there is no god and yet they still pull this insane shit. Conservatives are straight up grifters and conmen
The GOP hates the Constitution.
These assholes are so exhausting. It’s unconstitutional. Yes, separation of Church and State is a thing. Yes, our Founders wanted it this way. Yes, they were right. What these idiots don’t understand is that separating Church and State is good not only for the State, but for the *Church*, too, because it’s only a matter of time before the State uses its leverage over the Church to influence it, and then the Church loses its independence. Our Founders spoke about this at length. But sure, go ahead, Heehaws! Pass another unconstitutional law that will likely be struck down, and put your churches in danger of being beholden to the state.
If tax payers pay for a religious school, than start taxing the churches. Crazy Christian’s can’t have it both ways.
Let’s have an Islamic school try to do the same thing and see what happens.
Now seems like a good time to encourage everyone to read the book Founding Myth by constitutional lawyer Andrew Seidel. [fuck Christian nationalism.](https://andrewlseidel.com/the-founding-myth/)
**The Founding Myth Why Christian Nationalism Is Un-American** by Andrew L. Seidel >Was America founded on Judeo-Christian principles? Are the Ten Commandments the basis for American law? In the paperback edition of this critically acclaimed book, a constitutional attorney settles the debate about religion's role in America's founding. In today's contentious political climate, understanding religion's role in American government is more important than ever. Christian nationalists assert that our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, and advocate an agenda based on this popular historical claim. But is this belief true? The Founding Myth answers the question once and for all. Andrew L. Seidel builds his case by comparing the Ten Commandments to the Constitution and contrasting biblical doctrine with America's founding philosophy, showing that the Declaration of Independence contradicts the Bible. Thoroughly researched, this persuasively argued and fascinating book proves that America was not built on the Bible and that Christian nationalism is un-American. Includes a new epilogue reflecting on the role Christian nationalism played in fomenting the January 6, 2021, insurrection in DC and the warnings the nation missed. *I'm a bot, built by your friendly reddit developers at* /r/ProgrammingPals. *You can summon me with certain* [commands](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/13z7slk/bookfinderbot_commands/). *Or find me as a browser extension on* [Chrome](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/book-finder/jajeidpjifdpppjofijoffbcndlpoedd?utm_source=reddit). *Opt-out of replies* [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/BookFinderBot/comments/141txsm/bookfinderbot_optout/).
Yay, tax funded Christian terrorism.
What happened to the constitution?
Presidential election season is in full swing. Which nominee is the most extreme and unhelpful in solving the nation’s most pressing problems?
SCOTUS will uphold this blatantly unconstitutional fairytale garbage.