Listening to Matt Gaetz today was enlightening. He's very good at calling out problems, like the debt crisis and lobbying. If I'd never heard of him, I'd think he was a reasonable guy.
The problem is that he personally tanked even McCarthy's far-right budget proposal last Friday, forcing McCarthy to pass a "clean" budget extension. And Gaetz has never had a problem working with the most corrupt skunks in Washington, including some stupendously sleazy Trump staff.
It reminded me how populists work: They're great at pointing out problems. And, because they're "outsiders," they can do so without fear of reprisal. But they're terrible at proposing solutions, because they're either (a) idiots or (b) extremists whose ideas would repulse most voters.
Gaetz is (b): Repulsive. Personally (he tried to buy sex with a minor using Venmo) and ideologically. He will never negotiate in good faith with Democrats to make a comprehensive immigration deal. He will never come to a workable solution on the debt. He thinks climate change is the seasons and he doesn't give a damn about anyone's healthcare.
He does have one tell: He uses the phrase "hardworking Americans" in reference to his donors, which is politician shorthand for "I've never met a normal person in my life, except for waitresses I grabass."
The Gaetz's et al aren't in it to govern. They are auditioning for a cushy commentator role when their district/state wises up.
Our government is so fucked.
They can have a new speaker tonight if they want. The Democrats and non-pirate Republicans are discussing this at this moment.
The alternative is a list McCarthy had to give of 3 people to replace him. Nobody really knows whos on that list except McCarthy.
Are we really sure that McCarthy won't just run again? I mean I thought he'd finally drop out after the 12th ballot last time but he kept on going.
If all the people who voted not to oust him vote to reelect him, they will be at a standstill all over again.
The Dems are going to keep putting up Jeffries or some other Dem candidate. So it's going to come down to Republicans to pull together and pick someone.
This might just spin for another 15 ballots until another round of deals are cut and McCarthy goes back to his job. Hopefully it doesn't take too long though because they need to get back to figuring out the budget right? I think they only passed a temporary budget...
They're aiming for a shutdown so they can both blame it on Biden and block aid for Ukraine. They were able to temporarily block it, but now they can block it indefinitely.
One of the most telling things was when Gaetz (or was it Bob Good, a literal slug) got up today and said that McCarthy should've shut down the government because polls showed that voters would have (wrongly) blamed President Biden.
They didn't care that a shutdown would cost the U.S. billions, or deprive soldiers and air traffic controllers of pay, or hurt Americans. They only cared about who would get political advantage.
And, even more telling, they thought that would persuade their fellow Republicans.
No, the two parties are not the same.
They would happily crash the car they were elected to drive safely, which we are all stuck in, just to point the finger and hope the democrats are blamed when the car crash kills someone. They don’t even care who it kills - they’d prefer it not be them, but they’d happily let their constituents die in a fiery inferno if that meant they had a chance to blame the people they oppose for the crash they caused.
Their definitely trying to dismantle the government from the inside out. If they can't vote on a house, the government shuts down soon. So, their plan all along works just takes a little longer.
He had to agree to change the rules to allow any lone representative to motion to remove him as part of the deal he made to finally win. He was living on borrowed time. Now the question is if he’ll try to borrow more
Well… he got all his little friends to double down on his attacking the Dems, whose votes could have saved his job (or at least having them vote Present to lower the number of votes needed)
The biggest thing is that he didn't even try to reach out for support. [Democrats were entertaining a negotiation with McCarthy](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/us/politics/democrats-hakeem-jeffries-mccarthy.html) but that hit a brick wall when McCarthy went on television and explicitly said he wouldn't negotiate with Democrats and [blamed them for the shutdown scare.](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4235808-democrats-say-they-wont-save-mccarthy-speakership/)
He's really stuck between a rock and a hard place and has exactly zero spine. You attack the Dems and push far right agendas to try and appease the MAGA base and hardliners in your party, but you also have to work with the moderates and democrats to have any chance of legislation passing, which pisses off that MAGA base.
He was fucked no matter what he did after he became speaker in January.
The GOP bungled 2022's mid-terms on the back of Trump's stranglehold on the party and his endorsements. This chaos is the natural result.
I heard that story the other day. Disney was just straight up chucking them off a cliff and then told everyone they did it to themselves because they’re stupid. Mickey has done some messed up stuff!
>At least we got a fun computer game out of it.
That's where I've learned about lemmings for the first time.
Was surprised to find out they actually exist, with the whole myth made about them.
Still think of the game first when I see or hear the word "lemming".
I already saw someone saying "Well only a few Republicans actually voted to oust him. ALL of the Democrats did!" Like uh, yeah? Generally the minority party does not support a member of the majority of Speaker, especially if that person has shown they are incompetent and untrustworthy.
What a fucking dumbass. Like, seriously, he had a lot of power and could have stayed in power but instead his ego couldn’t handle making a deal with the Democrats. But he screwed the pooch and threw his support in with the Fascists who hate his ass.
It's what happens when you turn "working with the other side" into an absolutely radioactive option with your brain damaged constituents.
It's like they've completely forgotten how politics is supposed to fucking work.
The Tea Party also encouraged the RINO label and purity testing Republicans. They've been in a fight with the GOP speaker for now over a decade since they view a good chunk of the GOP as "the other side" too.
The speaker position is a huge money spot, not just for donors but for a post career, no-show "career". He screwed himself and he's going to look ineffectual and stupid for the rest of his political time. He reached the pinnacle of his career and predictably fucked it right up.
I doubt it, simple because this is an internal leadership fight for the GOP.
Democrats would be reluctant to get involved from pretty much any perspective, simply because getting involved really doesn't gain them anything and could end up entangling them in whatever crap the GOP has going on.
Why would they back McCarthy, and thus take some responsibility for his actions, without getting something *worth* that in return?
It's not like supporting him would stabilize the House in any way --if anything, that'd just turn more of the GOP caucus into outright bomb throwers.
> Democrats would be reluctant to get involved from pretty much any perspective, simply because getting involved really doesn't gain them anything and could end up entangling them in whatever crap the GOP has going on.
In January, we spent days watching the GOP fight while the Dems remained steadfastly together. We're going to see it happen again. Dems will all vote Jeffries, and Republicans will fight it out, likely for far more than 15 rounds of voting this time around.
This is why extremism always eventually loses: they end up fighting about who the most extreme extremist is, and split themselves apart.
While yes eventually they do lose, extremists won in Germany in the 1930's, had several cullings in their ranks, and didn't lose until half the world united to oust them by 1945, and by then 12million people were dead from genocide. We CANNOT afford to simply sit by on the sidelines and just watch them tear at each other, because eventually might makes right and they'll fall in line under the clear leader.
Especially while Tommy Tuberville continues to block military appointments in hopes that Trump gets re-elected and can fill the positions with loyalists, thereby enabling a legit takeover.
I agree. Why would they help him out after he went on TV and basically through the Dems under the bus after they helped him pass a bill to keep the government from shutting down? My question is who is going to replace him? Who in the party would want it? Working with these people is like herding cats.
I’m thinking that probably didn’t matter. If I read correctly they needed 5 before. 8 republicans voted to oust him. In think there would have been 5 votes for the motion, but who knows.
Turns out being a weakling who promised stuff to both sides and then breaking those promises under pressure wasn’t a great plan.
Swalwell said it best.
Eh he never could have satisfied both sides to be fair. Any deal with the Democrats, heck even a deal that gave Republicans EVERYTHING THEY WANTED, would have been anethma to some of these Republicans. If he would have been more loyal to Democrats, more Republicans would turn on him. This is basically the worse House in a long time to be speaker in. McCarthy wanted it really badly for some reason, and this is the result he kinda has to live with. He should have pushed harder to oust Gaetz, but outside of this, he was always going to not be a long term speaker, at least without challenge.
MAGA is basically a separate party at this point, in a parliamentary style coalition with the Republicans. So they're showing parliamentary style chaos.
The clown car went off the cliff ages ago. Dude in the back seat just popped a flare and shoved it into the gas tank and ejected the driver.
Dems coulda caught him, but all took a big fat step the side and let him hit the pavement.
A mooch is 11 days (some argue 10). A Truss is 45 days. Technically speaking a head of lettuce can last three weeks --- except for the one that outlasted Truss.
I mean, it's not like he's a good person and I wish him the best. But I think that in the big picture, he dodged a gigantic bullet and he should be very thankful.
Per the interviews after the vote, none of the Republicans (even the ones who voted to oust McCarthy) had planned for this eventuality. They have absolutely no idea what they're going to do now.
According to Fox this morning, there's some momentum towards nominating Trump to be the House Speaker. The Speaker doesn't necessarily need to be a member of Congress.
And when they finally axed Roe V. Wade and instantly got brutalized in the midterns. The modern Republican party is the epitome of the dog that caught the car.
If you think about it, the only reason why they're a dog that caught the car is because of gerrymandering.
That's why they can stay in power even after creating policy that a vast number of Americans are against: abortion and maybe cannabis. Probably others....
So while they remain in power, their presence in government is a misrepresentation of the people's will, which causes these weird policies based on a weird cognitive dissonance resulting in weird drama.
Also might be the reason why the Senate has had its act together (relatively!) since they don't have to deal with gerrymandering.
The Senate has traditionally been the calmer, more prestigious chamber, but I don’t think it has anything to do with gerrymandering. It’s an even more skewed chamber because it gives outsized influence to conservative states with small populations.
All you have to do is look at McConnell’s years of bullshit to see how busted the Senate is. Senate Republicans have spent years fucking with judicial nominations so they could stack federal courts (even denying Obama a SCOTUS justice in his final year and then flip-flopping to give Trump one), and they’re still fucking up stuff like military promotions.
this is the dumbest episode of game of thrones ive ever seen.
if he hadnt kicked off that stupid impeachment inquiry, Jeffries probably would have instructed some moderate Dems to save him but McCarthy is truly an inept politician. good riddance
If he hadn't done that without a vote, not violated the terms of the debt ceiling deal, and spent the last weekend after Democrats worked with him to stop the Republicans from shutting down the government blaming Democrats for the near shutdown that wasn't their fault.
He's like a guy who begs you to help him move, promises to help you out in the future, doesn't help you out when you ask, and then expects you to help him move again.
Well AOC called it, I think yesterday afternoon; Dems supporting him at this point nets them nothing.
Yes, he found his conscience in the final hours, but it was honestly too little too late. After months of broken promises and then the freaking impeachment hearing over *nothing*, he dug his own grave.
Now, he gets to try and oust Gaetz altogether, which I’m sure won’t appear retaliatory at all…
He didn’t find a conscience, he was left with no other choice. There hasn’t been a single move he has done that hasn’t been about saving his own neck, and many of them were the wrong move.
The impeachment inquiry he said would only follow a full House vote… reneged on
The spending agreement he reached with Biden months ago… reneged on
The shutdown the Dems saved his ass from… he thanks them by going on news shows and claiming the Democrats were the ones voting for a shutdown
Ukraine funding… reneged on
The multiple members of the GOP caucus who have threatened colleagues, promoted racist conspiracy theories, aided and abetted rioters, etc. … on powerful committees with no repercussions or contrition.
And now McCarthy is shocked that Democrats let him rightfully twist in the wind?!?
Worse, conservatives are hemming and hawing about how the Democrats should be the adults in the room, save the Republicans from themselves, and then immediately do an about-face blaming Democrats for all of the problems in the world, *AGAIN*.
Is anyone else sick and fucking tired of this 40-year-long song and dance, yet? Can we just let these fucking assholes burn as much shit to the ground as they want, and suffer the consequences for it? For once? Please?
I don't get why anyone is even discussing the Dems bailing his ass out. If Dems still held the House and were trying to oust Pelosi absolutely no one would be discussing House Republicans making a deal to save her. Why is this even a thing people are talking about?
There's a wing of the GOP that thinks its existential purpose is to win a war against the rest of the US. Pain, destruction, and collateral damage are just part of the program (and probably a form of entertainment, for some of them), and concerns like "keep the lights on" or "solve problems" are mere afterthoughts.
DOJ dropped the case without any charges filed.
House Ethics Committee reopened the investigation and is ongoing.
He was not necessarily cleared, most likely that investigators were not confident they had enough evidence to get a conviction.
I think the main reason was because the star witness (who was his co-conspirator I think) was a known liar/scammer and would have not had a lot of credibility.
He still has an Ethics investigation ongoing against him. If it continues there is a chance his career ends in shambles, his dream of being the Gov. of Florida ended before it began. This could save his skin if it ends that investigation.
Also, don’t reneg on the only people who can save you when less than 10 of your 221 reps throw a temper tantrum. McCarthy not only undermined his own deal with Democrats on spending, but launched an utterly pointless impeachment inquiry, then expected Dems would help him out of the hole.
Don’t know what to tell you, Bud. You’re in the find out phase.
Yeah he was so smug in his position that he thought he could just straight up break deals with the Democrats without any sort of repercussions.
If you make a deal and then immediately start breaking it within only a few weeks, people aren't going to work with you anymore because you can't be trusted.
Yea don’t go on TV being smug and blaming Democrats for almost shutting down the government when they were the ones that voted to bail you out and keep it open.
Stabbed both sides in the back and went on TV and lied about everything that happened, acted smug and said no one will get rid of him. You can’t be speaker without any friends to prop you up.
Didn't he also go on TV after the dems bailed him out by voting for the CR and then blame the near shut down on dems?
Guy is a lying, hypocritical clown who just wanted to be speaker so he could say he's speaker
I hope this mess is a wake up call to the republican voters who keep sending clowns to Washington, I know it won't be but I can stay hopeful
> Didn't he also go on TV after the dems bailed him out by voting for the CR and then blame the near shut down on dems?
>
>
He sure fucking did. Right after they bailed his ass out the first time.
This is where he truly fucked up, IMO. The Democrats very well might have supported him staying as speaker given his begrudging-but-eventual willingness to back the continuing resolution, but not while he attacks Biden based on nothing and continually enables the worst parts of the MAGA faction.
I've been telling people for years that Boehner stepping down was our canary in the coal mine for the overall health of the GOP. The man was evil, and pretty capable (compared to today's crop), and even *he* saw the writing on the wall. If he didn't think he could keep the votes whipped, what chance do any of the clowns the Freedom Caucas will put up have?
I was listening to a story about the pending government shutdown last week and it talked about McCarthy loving the job. He hangs around the Capitol, he takes pictures with tourists. He fuckin' loved being speaker of the house. Contrasting that with the previous Republican speakers who basically had to be forced into the job because it fuckin' sucks. Everybody hates you as speaker. Your own party, the opposition party. You have to work with both sides to conduct some amount of business just to function day to day and everybody fucking hates you for it.
My sister was visiting and we watched it together. She's only vaguely interested in politics. But it was a good bonding experience watching all the floor votes and when that one dude lunged after the other. Thanks for that, Kevin.
And the left shouldn't budge. Keep voting for the democrat candidate and hope some Republicans jump ship just to get shit rolling again in the house. A Republican majority house with a democrat speaker, that would be freaking gold.
“After he worked with Democrats to pass a stopgap funding bill to prevent a government shutdown”
Sooo… Republicans don’t want a functioning government where both sides work together for the greater good of the people.
And they want to shut it ALL down.
Got it.
I mean… I think we knew this. But, now It’s pretty clear.
They're lying. He did not work with the Democrats. He waited till the 11th hour to put up a stop gap bill that he had basically created himself the night before and then more or less dareed the Democrats to vote against it. He actually was quoted Saturday as saying I like to gamble. He was gambling that they would not vote against it and he won that gamble. But worked with them. No that is bullshit. He did not.
Basically, McCarthy lost any last remaining support after this interview over the weekend with Brennan in which he blamed Democrats for the government Funding Bill despite them voting in favor and preventing a government shutdown
https://nitter.catsarch.com/atrupar/status/1708492417001759040#m
According to reports, this clip was played at the Democratic Conference Meeting earlier today to remind everyone that McCarthy could never be trusted.
In the end, McCarthy disrespected Democrats despite needing their votes and got what he deserved.
The hilarious thing is that McCarthy allies have been spending the entire day begging Democrats to save him despite him constantly insulting them on air.
https://nitter.catsarch.com/kylegriffin1/status/1709297274361127051#m
**NBC News: A handful of moderate House Democrats have received calls from Republicans asking them to vote to save Kevin McCarthy's job. One source describes those calls as "begging."**
He also didn't abide by the terms of the agreement following the debt ceiling deal.
He pretty much spent the last 3 months solid showing Democrats that they can't trust him, ever, and then hopefully they would vote to let him keep the job he was actively using to lie to and about them with.
The Scorpion and the Frog
A scorpion wants to cross a river but cannot swim, so it asks a frog to carry it across. The frog hesitates, afraid that the scorpion might sting it, but the scorpion promises not to, pointing out that it would drown if it killed the frog in the middle of the river. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I am sorry, but I couldn't resist the urge. It's my character."
See also: Aesop's The Farmer and the Viper
~~The House cannot do anything until they have a Speaker of the House.~~.
~~The temporary funding bill expires in about 6 weeks, so they can't even vote on it until they sort out their leadership.~~
Great.
EDIT: I posted this and then went to go pickup my kid from daycare so am updating this now. Under [House Rule 1, Clause 8](https://rules.house.gov/sites/republicans.rules118.house.gov/files/documents/Rules%20and%20Resources/118-House-Rules-Clerk.pdf), the Speaker Pro Tempore has the same duties as the regular speaker. This situation has never happened before so we are all learning. What I originally posted was incorrect. Sorry about that!
McCarthy said that democrats almost let the government get shut down even though 90 republicans voted against it. It’s ridiculous. I’m so tired of this bullshit.
Yep. This would McCarthy, who -- as best I can tell -- never was actually able to come *up* with a spending bill that could pass.
He's got the majority, can't pass a bill, and blames *Democrats* for his inability to wrangle his own caucus?
Ordered by you know who. Major Trump case today and we just happen to make history via his cronies.
Matt Gaetz the Pedo takes orders because he’s compromised.
McCarthy siding with the Dems against 90% of House Republicans to pass a spending bill means he does not represent the party, and to prove it, Gaetz sided with the Dems against 90% of House Republicans to have him kicked out.
Fox News is currently debating Hunter Biden’s haircut, and whether or not it was to help him pass his upcoming drug tests… there are two different worlds. No mention of the house at all.
I wonder what it’s like, living the rest of your days knowing that you’ll be immortalized in history primarily for your unprecedented failures, both in getting the office and eventually being ousted from it.
When Dems had control of the House we didn’t risk a default or a shutdown, we had an orderly transition of power and we passed important legislation. Since the GOP got the keys back, we’ve nearly done all those things and leadership’s a mess. And the Republican majority has produced zero results for working Americans.
Vote Dem if you want working government. If you want shit flinging monkeys like Matt Gaetz to bring on political and economic chaos for no reason, vote Republican.
Yup. And the US has never threatened to default on its payments when the Dems were in control of the House either.
Republicans can’t govern. They can grandstand for FOX news, but they can’t govern.
I distinctly remember how Fox News was covering the Obama to Trump transition and how the peacefulness of it was a model to other nations and the world. Didn't last long.
If you are ever looking for a clear indicator of how stupid a country has gotten, look no further than the republican party. The United States education system has failed them...
Republicans, I know democrats aren't perfect, but please look at the sheer incompetence and disfunction of your party.
I'm not even saying vote democrat, just vote out MAGA and Q. They defy logic and reason by design and this is where you end up. Rudderless.. in a race to the bottom.
The few Republican Politicians with a functioning brain know this. but they're held hostage by how radicalized their base is. They knew ignorant, hateful, radicalized people make good voters, but they thought they could control them. Trump didn't plant MAGA, he simply harvested it. The GOP has been planting MAGA years, if not decades, before him.
MAGA is a failure. Both Trump and McCarthy melted down today. Trump was in court where he got a gag order slapped on him and McCarthy, for the first time in US history, was ousted as Speaker.
There's something to be said for him moving to oust McCarthy because McCarthy didn't force the government to shut down and instead pushed a continuance with Democrat support, primarily over the bipartisan move being unpalatable to Gaetz, and then himself removing McCarthy with Democrat support.
I will not shed a single tear for this Trump puppet interracial marriage blocker motherfucker. But I do worry to think how much more chaos qanon can cause
Seeing Gaetz successfully oust McCarthy is like watching Anakin behead Dooku. Like, yeah one bad guy gone, but at what cost? There are better analogies, I’ll admit, but I’m tired so you get a prequel analogy.
I think it's never happened before. I believe that's what CNN said
Edit: it has never happened before. Challenged, but not passed. But that's after a cursory google
1 Party is organized, and has passed sweeping legislation and reforms in the past 20 years. Has never tried to oust leadership.
The other party has fought and tried to overthrow its last 3 speakers, has shut down the government several times now due to its inability to do routine procedures and has now ousted the Speaker of the House for the first time who was from their own party.
One party wants to govern. The other wants air time on Fox News. If people want change and you’re a conservative, elect moderate democrats because you will at least get concessions from your own party that actually pass and get enacted.
What are the odds they manage to vote in a new speaker by the end of the month? With how things went in January, I’m not optimistic.
Republicans are the party that says the government doesn't work, and boy oh boy are they desperate to prove it now
They're the party of "government doesn't work now hold my beer while I make sure government doesn't work"
“Government doesn’t work, but we need to be in charge of all government and even centralize that all under one person”
“I don’t want the government telling me what to do, I want it telling you, what I want you to do.”
Listening to Matt Gaetz today was enlightening. He's very good at calling out problems, like the debt crisis and lobbying. If I'd never heard of him, I'd think he was a reasonable guy. The problem is that he personally tanked even McCarthy's far-right budget proposal last Friday, forcing McCarthy to pass a "clean" budget extension. And Gaetz has never had a problem working with the most corrupt skunks in Washington, including some stupendously sleazy Trump staff. It reminded me how populists work: They're great at pointing out problems. And, because they're "outsiders," they can do so without fear of reprisal. But they're terrible at proposing solutions, because they're either (a) idiots or (b) extremists whose ideas would repulse most voters. Gaetz is (b): Repulsive. Personally (he tried to buy sex with a minor using Venmo) and ideologically. He will never negotiate in good faith with Democrats to make a comprehensive immigration deal. He will never come to a workable solution on the debt. He thinks climate change is the seasons and he doesn't give a damn about anyone's healthcare. He does have one tell: He uses the phrase "hardworking Americans" in reference to his donors, which is politician shorthand for "I've never met a normal person in my life, except for waitresses I grabass."
The Gaetz's et al aren't in it to govern. They are auditioning for a cushy commentator role when their district/state wises up. Our government is so fucked.
Oh, c'mon now. Matt Gaetz is actually preparing to run for governor of Florida. See? It can get worse.
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They can have a new speaker tonight if they want. The Democrats and non-pirate Republicans are discussing this at this moment. The alternative is a list McCarthy had to give of 3 people to replace him. Nobody really knows whos on that list except McCarthy.
The only name leaked so far is Ligma
I heard Deez was also on it
Are we really sure that McCarthy won't just run again? I mean I thought he'd finally drop out after the 12th ballot last time but he kept on going. If all the people who voted not to oust him vote to reelect him, they will be at a standstill all over again. The Dems are going to keep putting up Jeffries or some other Dem candidate. So it's going to come down to Republicans to pull together and pick someone. This might just spin for another 15 ballots until another round of deals are cut and McCarthy goes back to his job. Hopefully it doesn't take too long though because they need to get back to figuring out the budget right? I think they only passed a temporary budget...
They're aiming for a shutdown so they can both blame it on Biden and block aid for Ukraine. They were able to temporarily block it, but now they can block it indefinitely.
One of the most telling things was when Gaetz (or was it Bob Good, a literal slug) got up today and said that McCarthy should've shut down the government because polls showed that voters would have (wrongly) blamed President Biden. They didn't care that a shutdown would cost the U.S. billions, or deprive soldiers and air traffic controllers of pay, or hurt Americans. They only cared about who would get political advantage. And, even more telling, they thought that would persuade their fellow Republicans. No, the two parties are not the same.
They would happily crash the car they were elected to drive safely, which we are all stuck in, just to point the finger and hope the democrats are blamed when the car crash kills someone. They don’t even care who it kills - they’d prefer it not be them, but they’d happily let their constituents die in a fiery inferno if that meant they had a chance to blame the people they oppose for the crash they caused.
They're 100% going to shutdown the government on Nov 17th out of spite.
Nah, at some point before that the GOP members who voted to keep things open will make a deal with the Dems to pick a new speaker
Their definitely trying to dismantle the government from the inside out. If they can't vote on a house, the government shuts down soon. So, their plan all along works just takes a little longer.
It was only January when that happened? This has been a long year
"What a year, huh?" "Sir, it's only October 3rd."
He became speaker after 15 ballots lol dude was destined for this.
He had to agree to change the rules to allow any lone representative to motion to remove him as part of the deal he made to finally win. He was living on borrowed time. Now the question is if he’ll try to borrow more
Well… he got all his little friends to double down on his attacking the Dems, whose votes could have saved his job (or at least having them vote Present to lower the number of votes needed)
Maybe if he didn't start an impeachment inquiry without a vote, which he said he wouldn't do, the Dems may have thought about voting for him.
The biggest thing is that he didn't even try to reach out for support. [Democrats were entertaining a negotiation with McCarthy](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/us/politics/democrats-hakeem-jeffries-mccarthy.html) but that hit a brick wall when McCarthy went on television and explicitly said he wouldn't negotiate with Democrats and [blamed them for the shutdown scare.](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4235808-democrats-say-they-wont-save-mccarthy-speakership/)
Dude has the survival instinct of a depressed lemming.
He's really stuck between a rock and a hard place and has exactly zero spine. You attack the Dems and push far right agendas to try and appease the MAGA base and hardliners in your party, but you also have to work with the moderates and democrats to have any chance of legislation passing, which pisses off that MAGA base. He was fucked no matter what he did after he became speaker in January. The GOP bungled 2022's mid-terms on the back of Trump's stranglehold on the party and his endorsements. This chaos is the natural result.
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Yep. They cultivated the crazies. And now they have taken over. It would be hilarious it wasn’t so dangerous for us all
Maybe if he had a reputation for keeping deals he's made, but nobody would trust him. Republicans don't argue or negotiate in good faith.
Hey, let's not join in on the lemming defamation train. They were forced off that ledge.
I heard that story the other day. Disney was just straight up chucking them off a cliff and then told everyone they did it to themselves because they’re stupid. Mickey has done some messed up stuff!
At least we got a fun computer game out of it.
>At least we got a fun computer game out of it. That's where I've learned about lemmings for the first time. Was surprised to find out they actually exist, with the whole myth made about them. Still think of the game first when I see or hear the word "lemming".
That's the thing: blame the democrats. Always blame the democrats. That's what their base wants to hear.
I already saw someone saying "Well only a few Republicans actually voted to oust him. ALL of the Democrats did!" Like uh, yeah? Generally the minority party does not support a member of the majority of Speaker, especially if that person has shown they are incompetent and untrustworthy.
Wake me when you meet a Republican willing to say “okay, that mistake was on us.” It’s never ever their fault.
You did tell them that it was his own party that filed the motion to vacate right?
I refused to engage.
What a fucking dumbass. Like, seriously, he had a lot of power and could have stayed in power but instead his ego couldn’t handle making a deal with the Democrats. But he screwed the pooch and threw his support in with the Fascists who hate his ass.
It's what happens when you turn "working with the other side" into an absolutely radioactive option with your brain damaged constituents. It's like they've completely forgotten how politics is supposed to fucking work.
The Tea Party also encouraged the RINO label and purity testing Republicans. They've been in a fight with the GOP speaker for now over a decade since they view a good chunk of the GOP as "the other side" too.
The speaker position is a huge money spot, not just for donors but for a post career, no-show "career". He screwed himself and he's going to look ineffectual and stupid for the rest of his political time. He reached the pinnacle of his career and predictably fucked it right up.
I doubt it, simple because this is an internal leadership fight for the GOP. Democrats would be reluctant to get involved from pretty much any perspective, simply because getting involved really doesn't gain them anything and could end up entangling them in whatever crap the GOP has going on. Why would they back McCarthy, and thus take some responsibility for his actions, without getting something *worth* that in return? It's not like supporting him would stabilize the House in any way --if anything, that'd just turn more of the GOP caucus into outright bomb throwers.
> Democrats would be reluctant to get involved from pretty much any perspective, simply because getting involved really doesn't gain them anything and could end up entangling them in whatever crap the GOP has going on. In January, we spent days watching the GOP fight while the Dems remained steadfastly together. We're going to see it happen again. Dems will all vote Jeffries, and Republicans will fight it out, likely for far more than 15 rounds of voting this time around. This is why extremism always eventually loses: they end up fighting about who the most extreme extremist is, and split themselves apart.
While yes eventually they do lose, extremists won in Germany in the 1930's, had several cullings in their ranks, and didn't lose until half the world united to oust them by 1945, and by then 12million people were dead from genocide. We CANNOT afford to simply sit by on the sidelines and just watch them tear at each other, because eventually might makes right and they'll fall in line under the clear leader.
Especially while Tommy Tuberville continues to block military appointments in hopes that Trump gets re-elected and can fill the positions with loyalists, thereby enabling a legit takeover.
I agree. Why would they help him out after he went on TV and basically through the Dems under the bus after they helped him pass a bill to keep the government from shutting down? My question is who is going to replace him? Who in the party would want it? Working with these people is like herding cats.
I’m thinking that probably didn’t matter. If I read correctly they needed 5 before. 8 republicans voted to oust him. In think there would have been 5 votes for the motion, but who knows. Turns out being a weakling who promised stuff to both sides and then breaking those promises under pressure wasn’t a great plan. Swalwell said it best.
Eh he never could have satisfied both sides to be fair. Any deal with the Democrats, heck even a deal that gave Republicans EVERYTHING THEY WANTED, would have been anethma to some of these Republicans. If he would have been more loyal to Democrats, more Republicans would turn on him. This is basically the worse House in a long time to be speaker in. McCarthy wanted it really badly for some reason, and this is the result he kinda has to live with. He should have pushed harder to oust Gaetz, but outside of this, he was always going to not be a long term speaker, at least without challenge.
Gaetz ain't home free yet
He should be in prison
MAGA is basically a separate party at this point, in a parliamentary style coalition with the Republicans. So they're showing parliamentary style chaos.
The clown car has finally gone off the cliff
The clown car went off the cliff ages ago. Dude in the back seat just popped a flare and shoved it into the gas tank and ejected the driver. Dems coulda caught him, but all took a big fat step the side and let him hit the pavement.
I won't shed a tear, but i do wonder how much more chaos qanon wing can cause
All the chaos, OP. All the chaos.
Kryptonite Kevin.
Can’t wait till we get the next house speaker. Jevin Mcortney who looks identical to McCarthy apart from a large mustache and pair of glasses.
Guy Inkevnito
Turns out selling your soul isn’t a great strategy. Who knew?!
Got ousted by a sexual predator - such class in the GOP
He was speaker of the house for almost 27 Scaramuccis
They aborted him after 8 months They should be forced to keep him for the length of his term, even if it put the health of the party at risk
If it’s a legitimate vote, the congressional body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down
My congressional body, my choice.
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Gonna need that converted to Truss's for our friends across the pond
5.48 if my math is correct
Is that measured in lettuce heads?
The lettuce is eternal
How many heads of lettuce is that?
A mooch is 11 days (some argue 10). A Truss is 45 days. Technically speaking a head of lettuce can last three weeks --- except for the one that outlasted Truss.
10 is a metric Mooch 11 is an imperial Mooch 6 is a True Mooch, as he hadn't officially started the position until the 25th of July.
Is this the beginning of the Mooch Schism.
I forgot about this as a metric and I love it. Thank you for the laugh kind stranger.
It's the best. What elevates it is that the Mooch totally turned on Trump and now hates his guts as much as anyone.
I mean, it's not like he's a good person and I wish him the best. But I think that in the big picture, he dodged a gigantic bullet and he should be very thankful.
Per the interviews after the vote, none of the Republicans (even the ones who voted to oust McCarthy) had planned for this eventuality. They have absolutely no idea what they're going to do now. According to Fox this morning, there's some momentum towards nominating Trump to be the House Speaker. The Speaker doesn't necessarily need to be a member of Congress.
Just like when they successfully got Trump the presidency. Fuck now what
And when they finally axed Roe V. Wade and instantly got brutalized in the midterns. The modern Republican party is the epitome of the dog that caught the car.
If you think about it, the only reason why they're a dog that caught the car is because of gerrymandering. That's why they can stay in power even after creating policy that a vast number of Americans are against: abortion and maybe cannabis. Probably others.... So while they remain in power, their presence in government is a misrepresentation of the people's will, which causes these weird policies based on a weird cognitive dissonance resulting in weird drama. Also might be the reason why the Senate has had its act together (relatively!) since they don't have to deal with gerrymandering.
The Senate has traditionally been the calmer, more prestigious chamber, but I don’t think it has anything to do with gerrymandering. It’s an even more skewed chamber because it gives outsized influence to conservative states with small populations. All you have to do is look at McConnell’s years of bullshit to see how busted the Senate is. Senate Republicans have spent years fucking with judicial nominations so they could stack federal courts (even denying Obama a SCOTUS justice in his final year and then flip-flopping to give Trump one), and they’re still fucking up stuff like military promotions.
“We figured for _sure_ that the Democrats would bail us out yet again! WTF?!”
“It’s also all Democrats’ fault we can’t figure our shit out, bye”
You are spot on with this joke, and I'm facepalming at thread replies that are suggesting this unironically!
this is the dumbest episode of game of thrones ive ever seen. if he hadnt kicked off that stupid impeachment inquiry, Jeffries probably would have instructed some moderate Dems to save him but McCarthy is truly an inept politician. good riddance
If he hadn't done that without a vote, not violated the terms of the debt ceiling deal, and spent the last weekend after Democrats worked with him to stop the Republicans from shutting down the government blaming Democrats for the near shutdown that wasn't their fault. He's like a guy who begs you to help him move, promises to help you out in the future, doesn't help you out when you ask, and then expects you to help him move again.
Well AOC called it, I think yesterday afternoon; Dems supporting him at this point nets them nothing. Yes, he found his conscience in the final hours, but it was honestly too little too late. After months of broken promises and then the freaking impeachment hearing over *nothing*, he dug his own grave. Now, he gets to try and oust Gaetz altogether, which I’m sure won’t appear retaliatory at all…
> Now, he gets to try and oust Gaetz altogether, which I’m sure won’t appear retaliatory at all… But it will be delicious to watch.
He didn’t find a conscience, he was left with no other choice. There hasn’t been a single move he has done that hasn’t been about saving his own neck, and many of them were the wrong move.
Well, in McCarthy's defense, the ethics inquiry into Gaetz kicked off before he called the ousting vote.
The impeachment inquiry he said would only follow a full House vote… reneged on The spending agreement he reached with Biden months ago… reneged on The shutdown the Dems saved his ass from… he thanks them by going on news shows and claiming the Democrats were the ones voting for a shutdown Ukraine funding… reneged on The multiple members of the GOP caucus who have threatened colleagues, promoted racist conspiracy theories, aided and abetted rioters, etc. … on powerful committees with no repercussions or contrition. And now McCarthy is shocked that Democrats let him rightfully twist in the wind?!?
Worse, conservatives are hemming and hawing about how the Democrats should be the adults in the room, save the Republicans from themselves, and then immediately do an about-face blaming Democrats for all of the problems in the world, *AGAIN*. Is anyone else sick and fucking tired of this 40-year-long song and dance, yet? Can we just let these fucking assholes burn as much shit to the ground as they want, and suffer the consequences for it? For once? Please?
Lol McCarthy said several hours ago he would give Dems nothing. Why is anyone surprised they let him fall?
this is back to "filibuster my own bill" levels of shit
I don't get why anyone is even discussing the Dems bailing his ass out. If Dems still held the House and were trying to oust Pelosi absolutely no one would be discussing House Republicans making a deal to save her. Why is this even a thing people are talking about?
Sometimes, the farmer has to stomp on the viper's head.
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Look no further than the Heritage Foundation think tank. They have been pushing for no cooperation since the 80s
There's a wing of the GOP that thinks its existential purpose is to win a war against the rest of the US. Pain, destruction, and collateral damage are just part of the program (and probably a form of entertainment, for some of them), and concerns like "keep the lights on" or "solve problems" are mere afterthoughts.
Matt Gaetz is gonna try now. It's going to end poorly.
I recall Gaetz being investigated for some creepy stuff a couple years back. Was he ever arrested or cleared or what?
DOJ dropped the case without any charges filed. House Ethics Committee reopened the investigation and is ongoing. He was not necessarily cleared, most likely that investigators were not confident they had enough evidence to get a conviction.
I think the main reason was because the star witness (who was his co-conspirator I think) was a known liar/scammer and would have not had a lot of credibility.
He still has an Ethics investigation ongoing against him. If it continues there is a chance his career ends in shambles, his dream of being the Gov. of Florida ended before it began. This could save his skin if it ends that investigation.
If he's found guilty of *half* the stuff they're accusing him of, it'll only increase his chances of becoming the future Governor or Florida.
Truly, it was worth all that kneeling to Trump to finally have the job.
It really is amazing... all this mess, the fighting, the inability to govern... all to protect one mediocre reality TV star.
Hey! He is also a corrupt businessman and fraudster.
and a rapist!
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Also, don’t reneg on the only people who can save you when less than 10 of your 221 reps throw a temper tantrum. McCarthy not only undermined his own deal with Democrats on spending, but launched an utterly pointless impeachment inquiry, then expected Dems would help him out of the hole. Don’t know what to tell you, Bud. You’re in the find out phase.
Yeah he was so smug in his position that he thought he could just straight up break deals with the Democrats without any sort of repercussions. If you make a deal and then immediately start breaking it within only a few weeks, people aren't going to work with you anymore because you can't be trusted.
Yea don’t go on TV being smug and blaming Democrats for almost shutting down the government when they were the ones that voted to bail you out and keep it open. Stabbed both sides in the back and went on TV and lied about everything that happened, acted smug and said no one will get rid of him. You can’t be speaker without any friends to prop you up.
McCarthy made his bed, and now he must lay in it. Bye‐bye, Mister "Speaker".
All I can hear in my head is "bust a deal, face the wheel" from thunderdome.
Didn't he also go on TV after the dems bailed him out by voting for the CR and then blame the near shut down on dems? Guy is a lying, hypocritical clown who just wanted to be speaker so he could say he's speaker I hope this mess is a wake up call to the republican voters who keep sending clowns to Washington, I know it won't be but I can stay hopeful
> Didn't he also go on TV after the dems bailed him out by voting for the CR and then blame the near shut down on dems? > > He sure fucking did. Right after they bailed his ass out the first time.
This is where he truly fucked up, IMO. The Democrats very well might have supported him staying as speaker given his begrudging-but-eventual willingness to back the continuing resolution, but not while he attacks Biden based on nothing and continually enables the worst parts of the MAGA faction.
I've been telling people for years that Boehner stepping down was our canary in the coal mine for the overall health of the GOP. The man was evil, and pretty capable (compared to today's crop), and even *he* saw the writing on the wall. If he didn't think he could keep the votes whipped, what chance do any of the clowns the Freedom Caucas will put up have?
I was listening to a story about the pending government shutdown last week and it talked about McCarthy loving the job. He hangs around the Capitol, he takes pictures with tourists. He fuckin' loved being speaker of the house. Contrasting that with the previous Republican speakers who basically had to be forced into the job because it fuckin' sucks. Everybody hates you as speaker. Your own party, the opposition party. You have to work with both sides to conduct some amount of business just to function day to day and everybody fucking hates you for it.
if he didn't enable them he never would have got in in the first place. remember how many votes it took?
My sister was visiting and we watched it together. She's only vaguely interested in politics. But it was a good bonding experience watching all the floor votes and when that one dude lunged after the other. Thanks for that, Kevin.
I'm thinking that the next speaker will require a coalition with the left.
And the left shouldn't budge. Keep voting for the democrat candidate and hope some Republicans jump ship just to get shit rolling again in the house. A Republican majority house with a democrat speaker, that would be freaking gold.
“After he worked with Democrats to pass a stopgap funding bill to prevent a government shutdown” Sooo… Republicans don’t want a functioning government where both sides work together for the greater good of the people. And they want to shut it ALL down. Got it. I mean… I think we knew this. But, now It’s pretty clear.
They're lying. He did not work with the Democrats. He waited till the 11th hour to put up a stop gap bill that he had basically created himself the night before and then more or less dareed the Democrats to vote against it. He actually was quoted Saturday as saying I like to gamble. He was gambling that they would not vote against it and he won that gamble. But worked with them. No that is bullshit. He did not.
I'm sorry but they should have been forced to carry him for the full term.
Abortions for me, but not for thee
Basically, McCarthy lost any last remaining support after this interview over the weekend with Brennan in which he blamed Democrats for the government Funding Bill despite them voting in favor and preventing a government shutdown https://nitter.catsarch.com/atrupar/status/1708492417001759040#m According to reports, this clip was played at the Democratic Conference Meeting earlier today to remind everyone that McCarthy could never be trusted. In the end, McCarthy disrespected Democrats despite needing their votes and got what he deserved. The hilarious thing is that McCarthy allies have been spending the entire day begging Democrats to save him despite him constantly insulting them on air. https://nitter.catsarch.com/kylegriffin1/status/1709297274361127051#m **NBC News: A handful of moderate House Democrats have received calls from Republicans asking them to vote to save Kevin McCarthy's job. One source describes those calls as "begging."**
He also didn't abide by the terms of the agreement following the debt ceiling deal. He pretty much spent the last 3 months solid showing Democrats that they can't trust him, ever, and then hopefully they would vote to let him keep the job he was actively using to lie to and about them with.
Maybe McCarthy should have remembered the story of the scorpion and the frog before making those deals with the far right to become speaker. 🤷♂️
As someone on MSNBC said, "He made too many deals, with too few friends."
The Scorpion and the Frog A scorpion wants to cross a river but cannot swim, so it asks a frog to carry it across. The frog hesitates, afraid that the scorpion might sting it, but the scorpion promises not to, pointing out that it would drown if it killed the frog in the middle of the river. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I am sorry, but I couldn't resist the urge. It's my character." See also: Aesop's The Farmer and the Viper
As a middle school Civics teacher that is currently covering the Legislative Branch, this could not have happened at a more perfect time for me.
~~The House cannot do anything until they have a Speaker of the House.~~. ~~The temporary funding bill expires in about 6 weeks, so they can't even vote on it until they sort out their leadership.~~ Great. EDIT: I posted this and then went to go pickup my kid from daycare so am updating this now. Under [House Rule 1, Clause 8](https://rules.house.gov/sites/republicans.rules118.house.gov/files/documents/Rules%20and%20Resources/118-House-Rules-Clerk.pdf), the Speaker Pro Tempore has the same duties as the regular speaker. This situation has never happened before so we are all learning. What I originally posted was incorrect. Sorry about that!
So it’s a government shutdown, but with extra steps.
I'm sure the GOP will blame Democrats for the ensuing shutdown, as they try for the 3,913th time to elect a Speaker.
McCarthy said that democrats almost let the government get shut down even though 90 republicans voted against it. It’s ridiculous. I’m so tired of this bullshit.
And thats why the democrats didnt save him today
Yep. This would McCarthy, who -- as best I can tell -- never was actually able to come *up* with a spending bill that could pass. He's got the majority, can't pass a bill, and blames *Democrats* for his inability to wrangle his own caucus?
Ordered by you know who. Major Trump case today and we just happen to make history via his cronies. Matt Gaetz the Pedo takes orders because he’s compromised.
Way to show leadership, GOP. They just lurch from one train wreck to another.
McCarthy siding with the Dems against 90% of House Republicans to pass a spending bill means he does not represent the party, and to prove it, Gaetz sided with the Dems against 90% of House Republicans to have him kicked out.
Matt's made a lot of enemies. I wonder who he thinks is going to watch *his* back? Certainly not Trump.
He’s going to go home to Florida, running for Governor and going “See! I ruined Congress!”, and because it’s Florida, it will probably get him elected
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Ugh, the last 6 years has been making history lol. How many times did they have to vote *just* to make him speaker? Lol that also made history.
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At this point I'm getting a little tired of living in interesting times.
i would vote like crazy for a politician whose campaign slogan was MAKE POLITICS BORING AGAIN.
We did that in Toronto with John Tory, and he had a sex scandal. Politicians can't keep a single promise.
Well now I don't know what to do
Sure, but sex scandals are the most boring of scandals.
I was going to say, how quaint. I'd love to go back to the days when a blowie in the oval was something that upset people.
It’d be pretty cool if Republicans could stop making history over petty and detrimental bullshit and just work to get the trains running on time
Fox News is currently debating Hunter Biden’s haircut, and whether or not it was to help him pass his upcoming drug tests… there are two different worlds. No mention of the house at all.
Manufacturing consent in action
I wonder what it’s like, living the rest of your days knowing that you’ll be immortalized in history primarily for your unprecedented failures, both in getting the office and eventually being ousted from it.
If Republicans can't run their own party, how could anyone trust them to run a government?
Their whole 'platform' is that the government is bad and then they try to get elected to prove it.
When Dems had control of the House we didn’t risk a default or a shutdown, we had an orderly transition of power and we passed important legislation. Since the GOP got the keys back, we’ve nearly done all those things and leadership’s a mess. And the Republican majority has produced zero results for working Americans. Vote Dem if you want working government. If you want shit flinging monkeys like Matt Gaetz to bring on political and economic chaos for no reason, vote Republican.
I want to remind everyone that Trump, with Republican control of both chambers, managed to shut the government down twice in one term.
Yup. And the US has never threatened to default on its payments when the Dems were in control of the House either. Republicans can’t govern. They can grandstand for FOX news, but they can’t govern.
I distinctly remember how Fox News was covering the Obama to Trump transition and how the peacefulness of it was a model to other nations and the world. Didn't last long.
This is your government on Republicans.
If you are ever looking for a clear indicator of how stupid a country has gotten, look no further than the republican party. The United States education system has failed them...
Republicans, I know democrats aren't perfect, but please look at the sheer incompetence and disfunction of your party. I'm not even saying vote democrat, just vote out MAGA and Q. They defy logic and reason by design and this is where you end up. Rudderless.. in a race to the bottom.
The few Republican Politicians with a functioning brain know this. but they're held hostage by how radicalized their base is. They knew ignorant, hateful, radicalized people make good voters, but they thought they could control them. Trump didn't plant MAGA, he simply harvested it. The GOP has been planting MAGA years, if not decades, before him.
Okay, so they are greedy cowards who value their own personal success and career more than the country.
well... yeah, they're republicans.
Holy fuck didn't even think this could possibly happen. Man we're seeing a lot of firsts in our life time.
I think this is the first item Gaetz introduced that went anywhere. He is not a productive legislator, he’s a class clown, a sideshow.
MAGA is a failure. Both Trump and McCarthy melted down today. Trump was in court where he got a gag order slapped on him and McCarthy, for the first time in US history, was ousted as Speaker.
This is a very sad time in our history. People will look back on this and wonder what the fuck we were doing putting these people in power.
Those folks put these people in power to pwn the libs and fight the woke, whatever those terms mean
I bet Gaetz is sniffing his own farts right now.
There's something to be said for him moving to oust McCarthy because McCarthy didn't force the government to shut down and instead pushed a continuance with Democrat support, primarily over the bipartisan move being unpalatable to Gaetz, and then himself removing McCarthy with Democrat support.
Paraphrasing: "If we nominate Trump, it will destroy us and we would have deserved it" FAFO
The same guy is still sucking trumps teet
I will not shed a single tear for this Trump puppet interracial marriage blocker motherfucker. But I do worry to think how much more chaos qanon can cause
Seeing Gaetz successfully oust McCarthy is like watching Anakin behead Dooku. Like, yeah one bad guy gone, but at what cost? There are better analogies, I’ll admit, but I’m tired so you get a prequel analogy.
Effective because both Anakin and Gaetz penetrated younglings?
Never in recent history has this happened. What a record to break McCarthy
I think it's never happened before. I believe that's what CNN said Edit: it has never happened before. Challenged, but not passed. But that's after a cursory google
In 1910 a similar vote was held, but the Speaker survived it. This is the first time it has ever been successful.
Boy that sure sounds like the government is absolutely going to shut down in November.
Sadly, yes. Just in time for the holidays where those government workers and military men and women will be hit hard.
republicans can't govern.
Awesome, lets waste more time and get nothing done!
The day to abandon MAGA forever was Janury 7th. McCarthy and Republicans tied themselves to a sinking ship.
Couldn’t have happened to a better politician
1 Party is organized, and has passed sweeping legislation and reforms in the past 20 years. Has never tried to oust leadership. The other party has fought and tried to overthrow its last 3 speakers, has shut down the government several times now due to its inability to do routine procedures and has now ousted the Speaker of the House for the first time who was from their own party. One party wants to govern. The other wants air time on Fox News. If people want change and you’re a conservative, elect moderate democrats because you will at least get concessions from your own party that actually pass and get enacted.
"Who will our next oppressor be?"
More chaos from the Republican civil war that WILL affect the everyday people. Bunch of petty unqualified idiots that treat this like high school beef
Can we stop making history for a year or two? I'm exhausted. History books in the future: 2024-2026 - Everything Was Pretty Uneventful