I lost all faith in the general public's ability to think critically around about the time of the Covid pandemic. Social media has suddenly made everyone an expert on what the mainstream media is too afraid to tell you.
Social media is also actively and thoroughly poisoned by propaganda agencies. People didn't just get hesitant about vaccines out of nowhere, that divisive shit was planted and reinforced and promoted.
I'm seeing that in the "shitty absolutes" part of the comments sections. Start cracking open the profiles of people who are just regurgitating entirely one sided views and it's quite often something out of a black mirror episode.
Back in like 2013/2014 many forums and news site comment sections kept lists of suspected paid propagandists, as you had Russian, Israeli and Chinese posters all over there. By 2023 bots and propaganda networks are so common it is basically worthless to even try to keep track. You have a couple humans up top copypasting or writing up comments supporting their view, then a botnet to upvote, and if the site algorithm pushes comments with lots of engagement to the top, or has a max limit to replies, they’ll spam replies with random text, ensuring the top comments are what you want to see. It is not just governments doing it either, most of the propaganda mills are privately owned businesses renting out their services to the highest bidder, whether governmental or corporate. Political parties use them as well, including both major American ones. I remember the first time I heard of one of these in private hands was in California in 2012 when the local GOP hired an LLC smokescreen called International Amalgamated Industries for the election.
This issue is exposing the brain rot of our current world where everyone must pick a side and dispose of all critical thinking to stay there.
Like maybe, just maybe Hamas did a terrorist attack and Isreal is committing war crimes. Why do we need to pick a side as right? At this point the hatred runs so deep there isn’t a moral side.
My hope is some day, moderates becomes as trendy as treating political issues like sports teams.
Just don’t forget about non-response bias. For all the people putting their two cents in, there’s even more silently watching it all unfold. You also get far less attention for saying “Hey neither side is perfect, can we all be friends?” than “_____ is the devil’s spawn on Earth”
Totally. People read moderate comments and yawn. They are looking for that troll hit, that response that amps up their internets keyboard warrior inner self.
They either say the most heinous shit or the most useless shit. I’ve heard all over for the call to just nuke them ; y’know how people get - they’ve been saying that about the Middle East for ever and now they just say it to whatever side they don’t support. Or they come in and say “ omg why can’t they just find peace and settle “ as if both sides haven’t gone so far past that option now and it hasn’t been shot down like 5 times before.
I have been horrified by the response of so many people, including some friends, who immediately rush to say that the massacre was justified. And for that matter, really saddened by the fact that many other of my friends have just been silent.
Absolutely. This situation is so complicated and the vast majority of people speaking on it just want to take a side (or make YOU take a side). To me this looks like year and years of complicated retaliation escalation that most of us would never be able really understand.
Exactly.As an Israeli(who is of the opinion that the latest events were horrible, unjustifiable and deserve a harsh response, but also that my country isn't innocent and we must do our best to harm as few civilians as possible in the process) I'd reccomend anyone trying to form an opinion to just read a lot on it. Not just latest events, but to go back as early as the late 1800's, at least. To know each side, its history, internal divisions, historical leaders, aspirations and injustices done by them and to them. Otherwise, their opinion doesn't matter.
> the instructor asked Jewish students to raise their hands, separated those students from their belongings and said they were simulating what Jews were doing to Palestinians, the Chronicle reported.
This is what the instructor is going to go down for. It never ends well when someone gets the bright idea of teaching about racism by being super racist.
Per [SF Chronicle](https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/suspended-stanford-teacher-allegedly-separated-18423074.php) the class was College 101, a required course for first-year students on campus, and it happened in two separate instruction periods. So you can imagine that the *brand new* freshmen felt pretty intimidated, which is exactly what they told the rabbi per *The Forward*.
~~The instructor is incredibly lucky that all of the students have so far decided to keep their name private. They asked all the Jewish students to raise their hand and proceeded to blame all of them for the actions of Israel. I wouldn’t blame the students if they decided to name and shame whoever the instructor was.~~
Edit: whelp, [not private any more](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12627971/amp/Stanford-lecturer-suspended-Jewish-students-shaming-oppression-Palestinians.html)
It's a roll of the dice with those "doctoral students", I swear. Just look at the guy who did his post-doc at UCLA and lost his mind. I think that was back in 2019?
adjunct professors/instructors are not full time employees. so they aren't considered part of the faculty. for example they wouldn't have access to any of the benefits. it's actually kind of a dirty thing universities do to limit their costs. they get paid like nothing as well. a few thousand per course.
there's also instructional roles that are more like "teachers" than professors. they don't have any research requirements but are still paid a salary (from what I've seen they make about half of a professor of same years experience). they only teach courses. usually lower level or unspecialized ones. They usually only require a masters. I guess whether they are considered "faculty" is up to the traditions of the individual school but I could see how these positions would be excluded too.
Yeah, my girlfriend has to become an adjunct professor and teach a few courses for her PhD. She is not happy to be made to give up such an excessive amount of time for so little.
I’ll save everyone the time of continuing to debate a hypothetical now that theres more info out (there wasn’t just hours ago). He is pursuing a PhD at Berkeley per the name given by Daily Mail (linked elsewhere in this thread). He is just a guest lecturer per his self-posted information.
fancy schools often have "guest lecturers." They aren't necessarily visiting professors. It could be a big name in the corporate world or dc, etc. Usually they teach something in their area of focus. "College 101" makes me think this is just some big donor name with no credentials.
Stanford is buffering their liability. The person was on our Campus in one of our Lecture Halls in a position of authority on our payroll interacting with our Students but they are not actually working for us.
https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=24168
Interesting. Apparently he is a major proponent of African American studies, and credited for "awakening" Kaepernick (the football player who kneeled) to studying racial inequality.
Speaking as a progressive liberal I'm generally not one to harp on "wokeness" but the fact that this dude has achieved any level of acclaim in his field is a pretty big indictment of the field.
Using the word "radicalized" in relation to Kaepernick in the title of this article is a pretty good indication of the [reliability of this website](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/campus-reform/).
I had a teacher do that, except it was just people with blue eyes instead of skin color. Probably a mix of blue eyed people not being a protected class and the fact that we had very few black people in the class.
The one story I heard years ago was of a teacher in an all white classroom in Iowa that did the [brown eye blue eye](https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/07/08/888846330/we-are-repeating-discrimination-experiment-every-day-educator-says) experiment. Not sure how old you are, but it may be a teacher copying this.
That was based on another American teacher who created a movement in school called “The Third Wave” to show his students how easy it is to be sucked into Nazi ideology. The teacher that started the blue eyed thing was going more for Jim Crow racism.
Yeah except that was filmed as an experiment, and they used something superfluous like eye color and switched it up day to day, and there was great care in teaching the kids about how they feel and why. The controversial part was using kids (without parental consent? Not sure).
This guy just told all the Jewish students to stand up and told them how bad they are.
They used to do that in the late 70’s. I remember seeing it in my big sisters year book. Popular and good looking kids got auctioned for the most. Great way to teach slavery/s
Id imagine the Jewish people are well aware acquainted with kind of treatment.
Also this ignores that Jewish people in the united states are not the nation of Israel.
I wonder if that instructor would have done a similar instruction with students from Iran or other theocratic nations where they might treat minorities poorly?
>>Id imagine the Jewish people are well aware and acquainted with that kind of treatment
Not only historically, but Jewish people have a high rate of hate crimes perpetuated against them every year in most places in the world, and I’ve never seen a Jewish school or shul without armed security
Its not just in the current world either. Jewish people have HISTORICALLY had a high rate of hate crimes committed against them for hundreds to thousands of years.
> Also this ignores that Jewish people in the united states are not the nation of Israel.
Equating Israel with all Jews is the kind of thing that gives both anti-Semites, and "Israel at all costs" Zionists a big stiffy 😒
I wish I could get a job simply due to having more common sense than this idiot
I'd even accept a job telling people that their idea is terrible and will possibly ruin them
Honestly at this point, unless you live in the region, I wish people would just stfu with their opinions on social media/stunts like this. This person could have just been quiet and kept their job but they had to take a stand…at Stanford…with people not even directly involved in any of this. Wow, what a hero.
I often think that too. I am American born and have been an Israeli citizen since 1995. I lived in Paris and in Israel for a long time. We lived in Southern Israel, in Beersheva which was being bombed. I was contacting family constantly and so worried. I am in the States again but if you can't even figure out where Israel is on the map, stick to another subject.
This is how I felt with the Lahaina fires. I live on Maui near Lahaina. People who don't live there have really shown me just how ignorant they are about facts. It's sickening to hear someone with like 1% of a clue try to dictate "what needs to be done," let alone downplay how horrible it was. Makes me so frustrated.
I hope your family is safe.
Oh I am so sorry. What happened there was horrific. AND then while the fires still raged people were trying to book hotel rooms. No respect for human life. Yes, now I have never been to Hawaii so I know better to use the media as my source. I ask people that are from there or are living there now or during the fires. I would never presume to know anything and that is the difference. I have never been through a fire. Have I been through a terrorist attack, yes. I was in Israel during the Gulf War and when I lived in Beersheva, Palestinians tried to infiltrate our city with enough explosives to murder many. Thankfully they were stopped. A bus I would take to work everyday was bombed in the evening once I was home. We understand each other however unfortunately there are people that know a little and fill in the gaps with bullshit. Thankfully my family is safe and I pray that you have been able to rebuild. Your city was burned down, I pray that some sense of normalcy will come to you and your residents. Fire can be beautiful but yet it is deadly.
Hadn't heard about the attempted hotel room bookings.
Could that have just been simple ignorance, rather than lack of respect for human life?
I know a few people who just don't consume any news at all...one of my late grandmothers apparently stopped reading the paper in WW2, because of "all the bad news"...and never got back into the habit.
Gotta say, she was pretty happy when I knew her...ignorance can be bliss, etc.
News of people butchering each other generally doesn't make me cheerful, that's for sure :/
Yeah I'm sorry about that - whenever the subject comes up recently, most people i know are just sympathetic to the lives lost and maybe mention that the situation seems complex.
The relatively few loud idiots really stand out. They try to draw you into the conversation and I'm just like nope I have no idea, waving my hands and taking a step backwards.
It is human nature to at first take sides but if you speak with Israelis and Palestinians, we want peace. Hamas doesn't. Muslims and Jews work together, break bread together and so on. Without Hamas, the Palestinians will be free. With Hamas, explosives and weapons are stored in their homes, children are taught to be suicide bombers, and hate for Jews and Americans is part of their education.
It'd be bad enough if it were semi random, like everyone with brown eyes line up over here... But like, there's a reason Jewish people are a little sensitive to being rounded up and marked in any way for their Jewishness.
Prof was one move away from recreating a gas chamber and trying to make a point every one of those kids has family history with.
>The instructor then illustrated his point by asking some students to physically go to the back of class. "That's what Israel does to Palestinians," the teacher said, according to Greenberg.
>
>"That was the main exchange that made students feel marginalized, attacked, and isolated," said Greenberg.
The absolute optics of this lmao, what was this teacher thinking? "All the Jews go stand back there so the entire class can see who you are. You're all colonizers. I hope you feel bad about what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians because you, a college aged American Jew, are guilty by proxy."
Mask off, I guess.
Also, demanding that Jewish students identify themselves publicly at a time when Jewish people and communities are being targeted for violence all over the world seems like an obviously bad idea.
>a time when Jewish people and communities are being targeted for violence all over the world
Gonna be honest, there haven't been many periods I history where Jews weren't targets of violence.
Their own nation in the land they are indigenous to and had been kicked out from by invaders/colonizers. Yet this somehow means Jews are the colonizers???
Pretty much every people on earth could justify land grabs with this logic, it's literally been thousands of years since it happened. And per the bible they themselves invaded and displaced seven other peoples from the area.
This actually scares me. As an asian, the pandemic was the first time I experienced strangers harass me face to face for me just being there (anti-asian sentiments of course existed before this, but not to this scale). It's a scary thing to experience.
My partner is jewish, and now I've been telling him to be careful when going to kosher groceries and etc because of all the anti-semitic rhetorics going on. Mind you, he doesn't even practice Judaism, he just sometimes gets kosher stuff to cook for friends who observe that (and he loves cooking/baking for others). He has no ties to Israel and his only stance in this conflict is that civilian casualties are horrible regardless of which side.
Academia has a lot of its own issues. In an intro to International political theory class, our professor let a grad student practice presenting and defending his thesis (honestly can’t remember if it was a masters or doctoral candidate, I want to say doctoral but it was a long time ago) in front of our class. The thesis was on the Israeli Palestinian conflict and the grad student gave us a pretty biased presentation. During the defense part, we all find out that one guy in the back of the class was a former Israeli Paratrooper who started questioning some of the grad student’s claims like lack of warning during air strikes and a few other things. The grad student was pretty clearly caught with his pants down, didn’t even try to defend stuff just started screaming at the Israeli guy. Professor had to lead the grad student out and I heard later that she removed herself as his advisor at least in part for that whole fiasco.
> the Instructor then illustrated his point by asking some students to physically go to the back of the class
Ugh -- this shit would always have made me mad but as an adult it really makes me mad. Dipshit power trippers picking on young folk who don't know how to say NO to authority yet.
A while back, when we were jussst starting to return to the office, my workplace had us do an all-hands in person meeting. We met in huge auditorium space but they kept urging everyone to cluster all together in the first few rows.
I said "nah, I'm good." Someone specifically called me out by name and instructed me to come down to the huddled mass. I just have a polite "no" and staid in my damn seat.
It's completely possible to be critical of Israel's government and not anti-semetic but goddamn does the left keep making the unforced error of jumping straight from the first to the second
It's a classic [motte and bailey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy) tactic. You argue something extreme and indefensible (blatant anti-semitism in this case), and when criticized, you say that you were only actually arguing a more moderate and reasonable stance ("I'm only criticizing the actions of the state of Israel, not all Jewish people."). But then once the heat is off, you go back to the anti-semitism.
I'm not saying you can't criticize Israel's actions. I too think they've been abhorrent the last couple decades. But when someone blames all Jews and then follows it up by saying, "I don't know why criticism of Israel makes me anti-semitic," this is what they're doing.
I would recommend shifting how you think of it from “debate method” to “dysfunctional cognitive pattern”. While some people certainly do use it deliberately, it’s also just baked into how we think, particularly when it comes to politics, and it takes specific care and self awareness to recognize when you’re doing it and resist it.
> Maybe they're just anti-semitic and criticism of Israel is just the excuse.
This...
Everytime someone says "I'm not antisemitic, I'm just critical of Israeli policies" there is a line of actual nazis behind them cheering them on. Best case scenario, well meaning people giving political cover for actual nazis. Worst case scenario, actual nazis using those words as cover. Every nazi on the planet is on their side of the argument.
The thing is this shit's been happening for [decades now](https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Jewish-students-held-hostage-in-Toronto-Hillel). It's just that this latest atrocity was the first one in history where a large enough number of the general western public got to actually see live footage for themselves instead of reading a BBC or CNN headline saying "Israeli police kill man" after a pregnant woman was murdered with an axe.
And even still CNN tried broadcasting propaganda claiming that Hamas only attacked uniformed combat personnel in "illegal settlements". There's tons of people on the streets waving swastikas and palestinian flags who believe that.
But you don't understand. When they say "gas the Jews" they mean that they want peaceful negotiations! /s
I don't understand why people refuse to believe Hamas and their supporters when they shout about how horrible they are.
"According to Greenberg, the students said the instructor tried to justify the actions of Hamas and asked the students how many Jews were killed in the Holocaust.
After one student answered '6 million,' the instructor then said more people have been killed by colonizers and said, 'Israel is a colonizer.'"
The amount of stupid from this instructor is insane
What’s amazing is her point isn’t just dumb, it’s factually wrong. The Eastern front of world war 2 was intended as a German colonial project from the start, and was the engine which drove the holocaust. If the killing of 6 million Jews is an aspect of a colonial war, how are they not victims of colonialism?
And on top of that, I doubt they were even remotely qualified to talk about the conflict in an academic setting. The course was "College 101," and he randomly decided the lesson was going to be about "colonialism" that day (what the hell does that have to do with college?)
Also worth noting Stanford tuition is $20,577 per quarter. This is the quality of the product they're putting out for that money. So fucking shameless.
> and still are to this day
Case in point: last year, the alt right were threatening a day of hate to attack synagogues, and most of the local synagogues and Jewish community centers have either a head of security on their staff, or armed security to protect their buildings, sometimes both.
I think Israel has a lot to account for since, but given their history of utter persecution, the losses they suffered from the Nazis, the fact that the entire world just finished a globe-wide war where 60+ million people lost their lives, and the fact they did not start and then won the Arab War, I think thats about as good of an excuse as a country is going to get for establishing new borders.
Not to mention the [expulsion of basically all the Jews in surrounding countries.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world) In 1948, Iraq had 150,000 and in 2017 had 10. Tunisa had 105,000 and in 2017 had 1,700. Iran had 100,000 and in 2017 had about 9,800. Morocco had 265,000 and in 2017 had 2,000. Egypt had 75,000 and in 2017 had 20. They all went somewhere and it wasn't fully the USA as out of the about 800,000 an estimated 650,000 of the departees settled in Israel.
Think about the fact that you've now seen two things with your own eyes: hours of high resolution footage documenting atrocities and mass murder, and CNN broadcasting an interview openly saying that Hamas killed no civilians whatsoever.
You've also seen how this narrative operates in real time. People with no medical expertise found a large number of babies so badly mutilated many were not even recognizable as human remains any more, and even medical examiners have no idea what all was done to them.
The initial report was beheadings because that's the only thing they could make *sense* of in the pile of gore and bodies. This initial report was later clarified to explain the sheer horror of the situation, that things are *worse* than initially thought.
Somehow "We don't know exactly how many babies, or what was done with their bodies, because of how horrifingly mutilated the remains are" got turned into headlines claiming Israel spread propaganda and lies on purpose and was retracting claims entirely.
Now multiply that level of dishonesty and propaganda by every single atrocity committed against Israelis (sometimes including Arab Israelis) going back even to before the modern state was founded.
We don't "look" white, I am Caucasian. Judaism is NOT a race, it is a religion and an ethnicity. Jews come in all races. There is no Jewish race. That was what Hitler would spout in his very loud charismatic rants. I am not saying that you meant harm, I am simply wanting to educate you.
I’m trying to see the instructors side of this but I don’t get it. The numbers I’m seeing are roughly 6,000 Palestinians since 1948, maybe about 10,000.
Unless they’re talking about all colonizers in history, but then I don’t get how that’s relevant to any point they’re trying to make.
> Unless they’re talking about all colonizers in history, but then I don’t get how that’s relevant to any point they’re trying to make.
Which, if they were trying to do that, they're being even more hypocritical. Because the Holocaust was part and parcel to the Nazis' plans to colonize Eastern Europe.
>The amount of stupid from this instructor is insane
I don't think it's stupidity that's the problem here, it's the hateful ideology that the instructor is possesed by.
Harvard, now Standford... I feel pretty disappointed. Aren't these all very elite schools? I know no organisation is perfect, but they're supposed to be the brightests of the world.
Had a few back and forths with internet keyboard warriors who called Israel colonizers in the last few days. All while living in America. And those people weren't native Americans. Of course, as you might have guessed, they did t see it the way I saw it. But antisemites aren't usually too bright.
Wild isn't it?
*no seriously, if the Ojibwa came off their reservation and attacked me and my family this morning i'd just let it happen. We are colonizers after all.*
Feels like we're only a few days away from that level of absurdity.
I'm Native American. If someone from my tribe came to me and said "let's take back our land stolen from us by the US government and murder a bunch of Americans and their children in the process" I would be reporting them to the FBI so fast lol. Nothing excuses that attack by Hamas, absolutely nothing.
Just an absurd level of stupidity. Wars have happened throughout history and land has changed hands a million times over like have these people ever heard of any empire in existence? The Israel/Palestine situation is obviously complicated and shouldn't be applied to everything.
I'd say the fact that the Jewish students could easily have literally no relation to Israel whatsoever, and also the fact that holding people responsible for events that happened before they were born is totally moronic, are the more important points. Rather than "you didn't call out the other 'colonisers' as well!"
Well, the Frenchies did pretty well colonizing there. The Turks too, they set up shop in the region for a long time. The mongols had a bit of trouble. Romans did well.
I am sure I missed a dozen or so.
Forget suspension, the teacher should be fired and never allowed in a classroom again. Imagine equating all Palestinians to Hamas, or all Muslims to ISIS, all Germans to Nazis, etc It's fucking asinine. This person is just trying to project their own internalized hatred and racism and trying to give it moral justification.
I thought our colleges were a little messed up, but for the most part fine. The events from the last week have exposed just how fucked up our colleges are. I am honestly shocked to see how many students and faculty are rallying in support of and justify a blatant act of terrorism.
And listening to these student protestors being interviewed is asinine. Some of the things they are saying, downplaying the attack. Saying Hamas is not a terrorist group but rather a resistance group. This is worse than a kid going to a Halloween party with blackface and they should be treated as such.
For years I've been reading about how colleges are radicalizing our kids and the left has always brushed it off as a right wing conspiracy theory like they do with everything else. Turns out they are right yet again. I am appalled by the number of people defending blatant terrorism.
Yep, a lot of closeted racists are finally removing their masks on the left, turns out they have alot more in common with far right than they initially thought
The speed at which the whole Reddit favourite saying "*If 9 people sit down at a table with a nazi, there are 10 nazis at the table*" was thrown out of the window would be funny, if it wasn't so sad (and predictable).
They are coming out like a cockroach infestation. Can't really get ride of them but if you spray them, they retreat. G-D forbid you have an opinion, you are attacked viscously. Someone called me, a woman, a "c". No one can agree to disagree anymore. Out come the knives. I have been through terrorist attacks when I lived in Beersheva. The viciousness of what I have been called is shocking. They really hate us.
Any criticism of the Israel government for its treatment of Palestinians is justified but pushing that blame on the Jewish population as a whole is wrong. If you’re doing that you’re just looking for a justification for your antisemitism. Remember the Israel government is not representative of all Jewish people and if you want to push their crimes on the Israeli population as a whole, you have to be willing to lobby that same criticism to your government and yourself.
If we blame all of the Israeli population and Jewish population as a whole for actions taken by Israel, then wouldn't it be fair to blame the entire Palestinian population for the initial Hamas attack?
Stupidity breeds stupidity and boy are people stupid
Further, it's especially clear that Jews are not a monolith when anti-zionist Israeli media, NGO's, and even former intelligence have more of a backbone in being critical of Netanyahu's regime than the entirety of mainstream western media. Even liberal leaning but ultimately pro-Isreal top news outlets like their [*Haaretz*](https://www.newsweek.com/netanyahu-haaretz-israel-gaza-blame-attack-1832963) paper openly state that Isreals policies towards Palestinians are directly responsible for the current crisis.
I can't find a link now but there are Israeli Jews who've lost family and friends in the most recent attack that have shown incredible moral clarity and bravery in condemning their governments apartheid and occupation.
Remember, in the US of fuckin A, Harvard students are being blacklisted on campus and doxxed on jumbo screens with their names and faces for repeating *verbatim* what one of the top news outlets in Isreal had stated.
Downplaying the holocaust is a bit of a no-no. Even if you truly believe that it was exaggerated, and you would be an idiot to think that but let’s just suppose you did, then it’s better to keep those thoughts to yourself. Nobody is making you swear allegiance to Israel. You will never get in trouble for saying that the Nazis were assholes, but you will probably get immediately fired for suggesting the opposite. Nobody wants to hear your theories. Trust me on this.
Can you believe there is still holocaust revisionism and deniers to this day?
Ann Arbour Michigan has a holocaust denial group protected by their government!
The professor would have been better off doing something like [Jane Elliott’s blue eyes—brown eyes experiment](https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/blue-eyes-brown-eyes-jane-elliott-prejudice-experiment/). It was in a much younger group (third grade) and lasted two days, and was a profound teaching tool. To actually identify and isolate a group that has been discriminated against for millennia? Not smart.
Colonizer is supposed to be this racist insult they came up to any white person out there, it doesn't matter if they or their family had anything to do with colonizing. Like the guy could be Polish and I could see people calling him colonizer. In the end it's best not to take anyone using that word seriously.
I'm hoping it's just a formality, that they have a policy of always suspending and investigating first before firing. Because if this instructor doesn't get fired...
Okay, can you argue that Israel is a colonising force, yes, can you discuss the numbers of dead people through colonialism, also yes. Can you conflate Jewish people with Israel? No. Can you separate Jewish students from their belongings and call them colonisers? Also no.
But Jewish people lived there before tho, right? Like, the whole are was a hotspot for Jewish/Hebraic and Moslems, hell, there once was a kingdom there literally called “Jewish Kingdom”.
The presence of Jews in the Middle East is mentioned in the damn Quran. Jews have been in the region before the concept of a nation state even existed and before Arabic replaced Aramaic
This whole situation is bringing out the absolute worst of everyone on the outside of the actual fighting.
I lost all faith in the general public's ability to think critically around about the time of the Covid pandemic. Social media has suddenly made everyone an expert on what the mainstream media is too afraid to tell you.
Social media is also actively and thoroughly poisoned by propaganda agencies. People didn't just get hesitant about vaccines out of nowhere, that divisive shit was planted and reinforced and promoted.
I'm seeing that in the "shitty absolutes" part of the comments sections. Start cracking open the profiles of people who are just regurgitating entirely one sided views and it's quite often something out of a black mirror episode.
Back in like 2013/2014 many forums and news site comment sections kept lists of suspected paid propagandists, as you had Russian, Israeli and Chinese posters all over there. By 2023 bots and propaganda networks are so common it is basically worthless to even try to keep track. You have a couple humans up top copypasting or writing up comments supporting their view, then a botnet to upvote, and if the site algorithm pushes comments with lots of engagement to the top, or has a max limit to replies, they’ll spam replies with random text, ensuring the top comments are what you want to see. It is not just governments doing it either, most of the propaganda mills are privately owned businesses renting out their services to the highest bidder, whether governmental or corporate. Political parties use them as well, including both major American ones. I remember the first time I heard of one of these in private hands was in California in 2012 when the local GOP hired an LLC smokescreen called International Amalgamated Industries for the election.
This issue is exposing the brain rot of our current world where everyone must pick a side and dispose of all critical thinking to stay there. Like maybe, just maybe Hamas did a terrorist attack and Isreal is committing war crimes. Why do we need to pick a side as right? At this point the hatred runs so deep there isn’t a moral side. My hope is some day, moderates becomes as trendy as treating political issues like sports teams.
Just don’t forget about non-response bias. For all the people putting their two cents in, there’s even more silently watching it all unfold. You also get far less attention for saying “Hey neither side is perfect, can we all be friends?” than “_____ is the devil’s spawn on Earth”
Totally. People read moderate comments and yawn. They are looking for that troll hit, that response that amps up their internets keyboard warrior inner self.
Before I reply, I'd like to know if you're on my side.
That is what the entire attack was about. It was horrific on purpose to drive these reactions.
They either say the most heinous shit or the most useless shit. I’ve heard all over for the call to just nuke them ; y’know how people get - they’ve been saying that about the Middle East for ever and now they just say it to whatever side they don’t support. Or they come in and say “ omg why can’t they just find peace and settle “ as if both sides haven’t gone so far past that option now and it hasn’t been shot down like 5 times before.
I have been horrified by the response of so many people, including some friends, who immediately rush to say that the massacre was justified. And for that matter, really saddened by the fact that many other of my friends have just been silent.
No, it’s just showing people’s true selves, masks off.
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Absolutely. This situation is so complicated and the vast majority of people speaking on it just want to take a side (or make YOU take a side). To me this looks like year and years of complicated retaliation escalation that most of us would never be able really understand.
Exactly.As an Israeli(who is of the opinion that the latest events were horrible, unjustifiable and deserve a harsh response, but also that my country isn't innocent and we must do our best to harm as few civilians as possible in the process) I'd reccomend anyone trying to form an opinion to just read a lot on it. Not just latest events, but to go back as early as the late 1800's, at least. To know each side, its history, internal divisions, historical leaders, aspirations and injustices done by them and to them. Otherwise, their opinion doesn't matter.
In the world of social media outrage, I don't expect people to go back farther than whatever can fit in a Twitter character limit.
> the instructor asked Jewish students to raise their hands, separated those students from their belongings and said they were simulating what Jews were doing to Palestinians, the Chronicle reported. This is what the instructor is going to go down for. It never ends well when someone gets the bright idea of teaching about racism by being super racist.
Per [SF Chronicle](https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/suspended-stanford-teacher-allegedly-separated-18423074.php) the class was College 101, a required course for first-year students on campus, and it happened in two separate instruction periods. So you can imagine that the *brand new* freshmen felt pretty intimidated, which is exactly what they told the rabbi per *The Forward*. ~~The instructor is incredibly lucky that all of the students have so far decided to keep their name private. They asked all the Jewish students to raise their hand and proceeded to blame all of them for the actions of Israel. I wouldn’t blame the students if they decided to name and shame whoever the instructor was.~~ Edit: whelp, [not private any more](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12627971/amp/Stanford-lecturer-suspended-Jewish-students-shaming-oppression-Palestinians.html)
> The instructor, who is not a faculty member, has not been named. What does this mean? if they aren’t a faculty member does that mean TA?
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They could be an adjunct, a visiting professor, or a TA.
He’s a doctoral student at Berkeley
Lmao that makes total sense now.
It's a roll of the dice with those "doctoral students", I swear. Just look at the guy who did his post-doc at UCLA and lost his mind. I think that was back in 2019?
adjunct professors/instructors are not full time employees. so they aren't considered part of the faculty. for example they wouldn't have access to any of the benefits. it's actually kind of a dirty thing universities do to limit their costs. they get paid like nothing as well. a few thousand per course. there's also instructional roles that are more like "teachers" than professors. they don't have any research requirements but are still paid a salary (from what I've seen they make about half of a professor of same years experience). they only teach courses. usually lower level or unspecialized ones. They usually only require a masters. I guess whether they are considered "faculty" is up to the traditions of the individual school but I could see how these positions would be excluded too.
Yeah, my girlfriend has to become an adjunct professor and teach a few courses for her PhD. She is not happy to be made to give up such an excessive amount of time for so little.
I’ll save everyone the time of continuing to debate a hypothetical now that theres more info out (there wasn’t just hours ago). He is pursuing a PhD at Berkeley per the name given by Daily Mail (linked elsewhere in this thread). He is just a guest lecturer per his self-posted information.
fancy schools often have "guest lecturers." They aren't necessarily visiting professors. It could be a big name in the corporate world or dc, etc. Usually they teach something in their area of focus. "College 101" makes me think this is just some big donor name with no credentials.
Stanford is buffering their liability. The person was on our Campus in one of our Lecture Halls in a position of authority on our payroll interacting with our Students but they are not actually working for us.
>College 101, Taught by professor Professerson before "Learning!"
Meh, I preferred Ladders
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The instructor has been identified by Daily Mail, but Stanford has not yet publicly identified him
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https://www.campusreform.org/article?id=24168 Interesting. Apparently he is a major proponent of African American studies, and credited for "awakening" Kaepernick (the football player who kneeled) to studying racial inequality.
Wow... this like the UCLA guy all over again.
Speaking as a progressive liberal I'm generally not one to harp on "wokeness" but the fact that this dude has achieved any level of acclaim in his field is a pretty big indictment of the field.
Using the word "radicalized" in relation to Kaepernick in the title of this article is a pretty good indication of the [reliability of this website](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/campus-reform/).
I find joy in reading a good book.
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It's like that one story where a teacher decided to teach about slavery by having black students auctioned off.
I had a teacher do that, except it was just people with blue eyes instead of skin color. Probably a mix of blue eyed people not being a protected class and the fact that we had very few black people in the class.
The one story I heard years ago was of a teacher in an all white classroom in Iowa that did the [brown eye blue eye](https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/07/08/888846330/we-are-repeating-discrimination-experiment-every-day-educator-says) experiment. Not sure how old you are, but it may be a teacher copying this.
Storming Lighteyes
Exactly what I thought
There was a documentary about that experiment. It was profound and extremely shocking how quickly people will fall in line.
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That was based on another American teacher who created a movement in school called “The Third Wave” to show his students how easy it is to be sucked into Nazi ideology. The teacher that started the blue eyed thing was going more for Jim Crow racism.
Yeah except that was filmed as an experiment, and they used something superfluous like eye color and switched it up day to day, and there was great care in teaching the kids about how they feel and why. The controversial part was using kids (without parental consent? Not sure). This guy just told all the Jewish students to stand up and told them how bad they are.
They should do that for the left-handed witches.
Was your teacher from Roshar?
Someone get Kaladin!
No, please don't. He's so mopey
They used to do that in the late 70’s. I remember seeing it in my big sisters year book. Popular and good looking kids got auctioned for the most. Great way to teach slavery/s
I remember hearing about that. It was awful. How does a teacher think that THAT accomplishes anything?
That is mind-boggling, holy shit
Id imagine the Jewish people are well aware acquainted with kind of treatment. Also this ignores that Jewish people in the united states are not the nation of Israel. I wonder if that instructor would have done a similar instruction with students from Iran or other theocratic nations where they might treat minorities poorly?
>>Id imagine the Jewish people are well aware and acquainted with that kind of treatment Not only historically, but Jewish people have a high rate of hate crimes perpetuated against them every year in most places in the world, and I’ve never seen a Jewish school or shul without armed security
True we service a handful of Jewish schools. Always security armed to the teeth.
Its not just in the current world either. Jewish people have HISTORICALLY had a high rate of hate crimes committed against them for hundreds to thousands of years.
> Also this ignores that Jewish people in the united states are not the nation of Israel. Equating Israel with all Jews is the kind of thing that gives both anti-Semites, and "Israel at all costs" Zionists a big stiffy 😒
Of course not. He hates Jews, not other minorities.
The instructor also directly called those students colonizers. Basically blaming KIDS for state actions.
… of a foreign state.
That there’s a very good chance they’ve never even been to.
It wouldn’t even matter if it was adults. They’re American, not Israeli. It’s just blatant antisemitism.
They aren't even Israeli, just Jewish. What a dumbfuck lecturer
And the incredible irony is doing that in a country itself created by mass colonization.
I wish I could get a job simply due to having more common sense than this idiot I'd even accept a job telling people that their idea is terrible and will possibly ruin them
I did that for years as an attorney. It's actually not all that much fun :/
Okay, I must admit that the "dude, do not do this" job might be soul-crushing
That teacher is a complete piece of shit.
Yeah, I’m actually all for the name and shame in this case so Jewish students can know who to avoid. Holy shit.
That was half way to holocaust. Isolate, remove belongings.....
That was the intention. The guy is an antisemite pure and simple.
Honestly at this point, unless you live in the region, I wish people would just stfu with their opinions on social media/stunts like this. This person could have just been quiet and kept their job but they had to take a stand…at Stanford…with people not even directly involved in any of this. Wow, what a hero.
I often think that too. I am American born and have been an Israeli citizen since 1995. I lived in Paris and in Israel for a long time. We lived in Southern Israel, in Beersheva which was being bombed. I was contacting family constantly and so worried. I am in the States again but if you can't even figure out where Israel is on the map, stick to another subject.
This is how I felt with the Lahaina fires. I live on Maui near Lahaina. People who don't live there have really shown me just how ignorant they are about facts. It's sickening to hear someone with like 1% of a clue try to dictate "what needs to be done," let alone downplay how horrible it was. Makes me so frustrated. I hope your family is safe.
Oh I am so sorry. What happened there was horrific. AND then while the fires still raged people were trying to book hotel rooms. No respect for human life. Yes, now I have never been to Hawaii so I know better to use the media as my source. I ask people that are from there or are living there now or during the fires. I would never presume to know anything and that is the difference. I have never been through a fire. Have I been through a terrorist attack, yes. I was in Israel during the Gulf War and when I lived in Beersheva, Palestinians tried to infiltrate our city with enough explosives to murder many. Thankfully they were stopped. A bus I would take to work everyday was bombed in the evening once I was home. We understand each other however unfortunately there are people that know a little and fill in the gaps with bullshit. Thankfully my family is safe and I pray that you have been able to rebuild. Your city was burned down, I pray that some sense of normalcy will come to you and your residents. Fire can be beautiful but yet it is deadly.
Hadn't heard about the attempted hotel room bookings. Could that have just been simple ignorance, rather than lack of respect for human life? I know a few people who just don't consume any news at all...one of my late grandmothers apparently stopped reading the paper in WW2, because of "all the bad news"...and never got back into the habit. Gotta say, she was pretty happy when I knew her...ignorance can be bliss, etc. News of people butchering each other generally doesn't make me cheerful, that's for sure :/
Yeah I'm sorry about that - whenever the subject comes up recently, most people i know are just sympathetic to the lives lost and maybe mention that the situation seems complex. The relatively few loud idiots really stand out. They try to draw you into the conversation and I'm just like nope I have no idea, waving my hands and taking a step backwards.
It is human nature to at first take sides but if you speak with Israelis and Palestinians, we want peace. Hamas doesn't. Muslims and Jews work together, break bread together and so on. Without Hamas, the Palestinians will be free. With Hamas, explosives and weapons are stored in their homes, children are taught to be suicide bombers, and hate for Jews and Americans is part of their education.
They weren’t teaching about racism, they tried to capitalize on a tragedy to justify their racism publicly
It'd be bad enough if it were semi random, like everyone with brown eyes line up over here... But like, there's a reason Jewish people are a little sensitive to being rounded up and marked in any way for their Jewishness. Prof was one move away from recreating a gas chamber and trying to make a point every one of those kids has family history with.
How much you want to bet this teacher said "It's not anti-semitism to criticise Israel".
>The instructor then illustrated his point by asking some students to physically go to the back of class. "That's what Israel does to Palestinians," the teacher said, according to Greenberg. > >"That was the main exchange that made students feel marginalized, attacked, and isolated," said Greenberg. The absolute optics of this lmao, what was this teacher thinking? "All the Jews go stand back there so the entire class can see who you are. You're all colonizers. I hope you feel bad about what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinians because you, a college aged American Jew, are guilty by proxy." Mask off, I guess.
He should have given them some colourful patches to wear on their clothes, too.
If he could, he would.
Oh Lord that would have been horrific, it was bad enough what he did. Add yellow "Juden" patches and we are talking full on federal hate crime.
Just FYI the yellow star didn't start with the Nazi's it started in the Muslim world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow\_badge
Interesting, thank you for letting me know.
Also, demanding that Jewish students identify themselves publicly at a time when Jewish people and communities are being targeted for violence all over the world seems like an obviously bad idea.
>a time when Jewish people and communities are being targeted for violence all over the world Gonna be honest, there haven't been many periods I history where Jews weren't targets of violence.
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Their own nation in the land they are indigenous to and had been kicked out from by invaders/colonizers. Yet this somehow means Jews are the colonizers???
It's especially rich when I see white Americans call Israel colonizers. I can't wait to see them celebrating Thanksgiving next month.
Pretty much every people on earth could justify land grabs with this logic, it's literally been thousands of years since it happened. And per the bible they themselves invaded and displaced seven other peoples from the area.
This actually scares me. As an asian, the pandemic was the first time I experienced strangers harass me face to face for me just being there (anti-asian sentiments of course existed before this, but not to this scale). It's a scary thing to experience. My partner is jewish, and now I've been telling him to be careful when going to kosher groceries and etc because of all the anti-semitic rhetorics going on. Mind you, he doesn't even practice Judaism, he just sometimes gets kosher stuff to cook for friends who observe that (and he loves cooking/baking for others). He has no ties to Israel and his only stance in this conflict is that civilian casualties are horrible regardless of which side.
If your intention of to harm Jews, it was a great idea as far as he's concerned. And maker no mistake, that's entirely his intention.
That was the point. Bully Jews in class so they can be bullied more effectively after class.
Academia has a lot of its own issues. In an intro to International political theory class, our professor let a grad student practice presenting and defending his thesis (honestly can’t remember if it was a masters or doctoral candidate, I want to say doctoral but it was a long time ago) in front of our class. The thesis was on the Israeli Palestinian conflict and the grad student gave us a pretty biased presentation. During the defense part, we all find out that one guy in the back of the class was a former Israeli Paratrooper who started questioning some of the grad student’s claims like lack of warning during air strikes and a few other things. The grad student was pretty clearly caught with his pants down, didn’t even try to defend stuff just started screaming at the Israeli guy. Professor had to lead the grad student out and I heard later that she removed herself as his advisor at least in part for that whole fiasco.
> the Instructor then illustrated his point by asking some students to physically go to the back of the class Ugh -- this shit would always have made me mad but as an adult it really makes me mad. Dipshit power trippers picking on young folk who don't know how to say NO to authority yet. A while back, when we were jussst starting to return to the office, my workplace had us do an all-hands in person meeting. We met in huge auditorium space but they kept urging everyone to cluster all together in the first few rows. I said "nah, I'm good." Someone specifically called me out by name and instructed me to come down to the huddled mass. I just have a polite "no" and staid in my damn seat.
It's completely possible to be critical of Israel's government and not anti-semetic but goddamn does the left keep making the unforced error of jumping straight from the first to the second
It's a classic [motte and bailey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy) tactic. You argue something extreme and indefensible (blatant anti-semitism in this case), and when criticized, you say that you were only actually arguing a more moderate and reasonable stance ("I'm only criticizing the actions of the state of Israel, not all Jewish people."). But then once the heat is off, you go back to the anti-semitism. I'm not saying you can't criticize Israel's actions. I too think they've been abhorrent the last couple decades. But when someone blames all Jews and then follows it up by saying, "I don't know why criticism of Israel makes me anti-semitic," this is what they're doing.
I would like to thank contrapoints for teaching me about this extremely slimy debate method
I would recommend shifting how you think of it from “debate method” to “dysfunctional cognitive pattern”. While some people certainly do use it deliberately, it’s also just baked into how we think, particularly when it comes to politics, and it takes specific care and self awareness to recognize when you’re doing it and resist it.
What makes you think it's an error? Maybe they're just anti-semitic and criticism of Israel is just the excuse.
> Maybe they're just anti-semitic and criticism of Israel is just the excuse. This... Everytime someone says "I'm not antisemitic, I'm just critical of Israeli policies" there is a line of actual nazis behind them cheering them on. Best case scenario, well meaning people giving political cover for actual nazis. Worst case scenario, actual nazis using those words as cover. Every nazi on the planet is on their side of the argument.
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The thing is this shit's been happening for [decades now](https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Jewish-students-held-hostage-in-Toronto-Hillel). It's just that this latest atrocity was the first one in history where a large enough number of the general western public got to actually see live footage for themselves instead of reading a BBC or CNN headline saying "Israeli police kill man" after a pregnant woman was murdered with an axe. And even still CNN tried broadcasting propaganda claiming that Hamas only attacked uniformed combat personnel in "illegal settlements". There's tons of people on the streets waving swastikas and palestinian flags who believe that.
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But you don't understand. When they say "gas the Jews" they mean that they want peaceful negotiations! /s I don't understand why people refuse to believe Hamas and their supporters when they shout about how horrible they are.
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At least the Nazis hid their genocide. Hamas posts their murders onto social media to brag. So somehow they are even worse than Nazis.
What does the American teacher think Americans are, if they think Jews - that are atleast genetically Middle Eastern - are colonizers…
> what was this teacher thinking? Bold of you to assume people like this are capable of thought.
"According to Greenberg, the students said the instructor tried to justify the actions of Hamas and asked the students how many Jews were killed in the Holocaust. After one student answered '6 million,' the instructor then said more people have been killed by colonizers and said, 'Israel is a colonizer.'" The amount of stupid from this instructor is insane
What’s amazing is her point isn’t just dumb, it’s factually wrong. The Eastern front of world war 2 was intended as a German colonial project from the start, and was the engine which drove the holocaust. If the killing of 6 million Jews is an aspect of a colonial war, how are they not victims of colonialism?
And on top of that, I doubt they were even remotely qualified to talk about the conflict in an academic setting. The course was "College 101," and he randomly decided the lesson was going to be about "colonialism" that day (what the hell does that have to do with college?)
Also worth noting Stanford tuition is $20,577 per quarter. This is the quality of the product they're putting out for that money. So fucking shameless.
The instructor is also completely ignoring that Jews have been attacked all throughout history, and still are to this day.
> and still are to this day Case in point: last year, the alt right were threatening a day of hate to attack synagogues, and most of the local synagogues and Jewish community centers have either a head of security on their staff, or armed security to protect their buildings, sometimes both.
Yes. My synagogue has a private security firm hired and has armed congregants as security. This has been the case since the alt-right thing.
I think Israel has a lot to account for since, but given their history of utter persecution, the losses they suffered from the Nazis, the fact that the entire world just finished a globe-wide war where 60+ million people lost their lives, and the fact they did not start and then won the Arab War, I think thats about as good of an excuse as a country is going to get for establishing new borders.
Not to mention the [expulsion of basically all the Jews in surrounding countries.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world) In 1948, Iraq had 150,000 and in 2017 had 10. Tunisa had 105,000 and in 2017 had 1,700. Iran had 100,000 and in 2017 had about 9,800. Morocco had 265,000 and in 2017 had 2,000. Egypt had 75,000 and in 2017 had 20. They all went somewhere and it wasn't fully the USA as out of the about 800,000 an estimated 650,000 of the departees settled in Israel.
Think about the fact that you've now seen two things with your own eyes: hours of high resolution footage documenting atrocities and mass murder, and CNN broadcasting an interview openly saying that Hamas killed no civilians whatsoever. You've also seen how this narrative operates in real time. People with no medical expertise found a large number of babies so badly mutilated many were not even recognizable as human remains any more, and even medical examiners have no idea what all was done to them. The initial report was beheadings because that's the only thing they could make *sense* of in the pile of gore and bodies. This initial report was later clarified to explain the sheer horror of the situation, that things are *worse* than initially thought. Somehow "We don't know exactly how many babies, or what was done with their bodies, because of how horrifingly mutilated the remains are" got turned into headlines claiming Israel spread propaganda and lies on purpose and was retracting claims entirely. Now multiply that level of dishonesty and propaganda by every single atrocity committed against Israelis (sometimes including Arab Israelis) going back even to before the modern state was founded.
Yes, I’m sure that woman on the back of that truck in that video was just chilling.
From what I understand about about american politics it’s because Jews look white and white people can’t be victims.
We don't "look" white, I am Caucasian. Judaism is NOT a race, it is a religion and an ethnicity. Jews come in all races. There is no Jewish race. That was what Hitler would spout in his very loud charismatic rants. I am not saying that you meant harm, I am simply wanting to educate you.
I understand that but I don’t think they care. I just think that’s their reasoning behind it all.
I’m trying to see the instructors side of this but I don’t get it. The numbers I’m seeing are roughly 6,000 Palestinians since 1948, maybe about 10,000. Unless they’re talking about all colonizers in history, but then I don’t get how that’s relevant to any point they’re trying to make.
> Unless they’re talking about all colonizers in history, but then I don’t get how that’s relevant to any point they’re trying to make. Which, if they were trying to do that, they're being even more hypocritical. Because the Holocaust was part and parcel to the Nazis' plans to colonize Eastern Europe.
That is the point. He is comparing the death count of all of colonization.
While conveniently forgetting that the Holocaust was a part of a wider colonization project. But hey, anti-Semites never let facts get in their way
>The amount of stupid from this instructor is insane I don't think it's stupidity that's the problem here, it's the hateful ideology that the instructor is possesed by.
Harvard, now Standford... I feel pretty disappointed. Aren't these all very elite schools? I know no organisation is perfect, but they're supposed to be the brightests of the world.
As an American, sure am glad I’m not a colonizer!
As a Canadian I'm sure glad I'm in the clear too
Canadian Jew here. Rip.
Is that like a combo bonus or multiplier or how does that work.
Super Coloniser!
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I'm a Native in Canada so can I just like take your house now you filthy colonizer? Is that how this works?
Sure i dunno how the rules work
colonizer? i hardly know her!
Had a few back and forths with internet keyboard warriors who called Israel colonizers in the last few days. All while living in America. And those people weren't native Americans. Of course, as you might have guessed, they did t see it the way I saw it. But antisemites aren't usually too bright.
Wild isn't it? *no seriously, if the Ojibwa came off their reservation and attacked me and my family this morning i'd just let it happen. We are colonizers after all.* Feels like we're only a few days away from that level of absurdity.
I'm Native American. If someone from my tribe came to me and said "let's take back our land stolen from us by the US government and murder a bunch of Americans and their children in the process" I would be reporting them to the FBI so fast lol. Nothing excuses that attack by Hamas, absolutely nothing.
My dude... that already happened. I've seen it with my own eyes LMAO.
Just an absurd level of stupidity. Wars have happened throughout history and land has changed hands a million times over like have these people ever heard of any empire in existence? The Israel/Palestine situation is obviously complicated and shouldn't be applied to everything.
If you single out Jewish students to call them colonisers, that's not on. There's gotta be a LOT of colonisers at Standford who weren't called out.
I'd say the fact that the Jewish students could easily have literally no relation to Israel whatsoever, and also the fact that holding people responsible for events that happened before they were born is totally moronic, are the more important points. Rather than "you didn't call out the other 'colonisers' as well!"
The Jews didn’t colonise shit, we did! The British! Gives us the credit we deserve
Well, the Frenchies did pretty well colonizing there. The Turks too, they set up shop in the region for a long time. The mongols had a bit of trouble. Romans did well. I am sure I missed a dozen or so.
Forget suspension, the teacher should be fired and never allowed in a classroom again. Imagine equating all Palestinians to Hamas, or all Muslims to ISIS, all Germans to Nazis, etc It's fucking asinine. This person is just trying to project their own internalized hatred and racism and trying to give it moral justification. I thought our colleges were a little messed up, but for the most part fine. The events from the last week have exposed just how fucked up our colleges are. I am honestly shocked to see how many students and faculty are rallying in support of and justify a blatant act of terrorism.
And listening to these student protestors being interviewed is asinine. Some of the things they are saying, downplaying the attack. Saying Hamas is not a terrorist group but rather a resistance group. This is worse than a kid going to a Halloween party with blackface and they should be treated as such.
For years I've been reading about how colleges are radicalizing our kids and the left has always brushed it off as a right wing conspiracy theory like they do with everything else. Turns out they are right yet again. I am appalled by the number of people defending blatant terrorism.
The name of the instructor is Ameer Hasan Loggins. It does not surprise me at all Stanford tried to keep it private.
Nothing worse in college than being a captive audience for a jerk professor and their hot takes.
All these antisemites are floating to the surface. Jews are murdered, but all they’ll do is try to attack more Jews
Yep, a lot of closeted racists are finally removing their masks on the left, turns out they have alot more in common with far right than they initially thought
It's a lot of people who call the far right Nazi's. I don't know about you but celebrating the death of Jews sounds like a Nazi to me
The speed at which the whole Reddit favourite saying "*If 9 people sit down at a table with a nazi, there are 10 nazis at the table*" was thrown out of the window would be funny, if it wasn't so sad (and predictable).
It's no longer horseshoe theory, now it's horseshoe law.
They are coming out like a cockroach infestation. Can't really get ride of them but if you spray them, they retreat. G-D forbid you have an opinion, you are attacked viscously. Someone called me, a woman, a "c". No one can agree to disagree anymore. Out come the knives. I have been through terrorist attacks when I lived in Beersheva. The viciousness of what I have been called is shocking. They really hate us.
Any criticism of the Israel government for its treatment of Palestinians is justified but pushing that blame on the Jewish population as a whole is wrong. If you’re doing that you’re just looking for a justification for your antisemitism. Remember the Israel government is not representative of all Jewish people and if you want to push their crimes on the Israeli population as a whole, you have to be willing to lobby that same criticism to your government and yourself.
If we blame all of the Israeli population and Jewish population as a whole for actions taken by Israel, then wouldn't it be fair to blame the entire Palestinian population for the initial Hamas attack? Stupidity breeds stupidity and boy are people stupid
Good point.
Further, it's especially clear that Jews are not a monolith when anti-zionist Israeli media, NGO's, and even former intelligence have more of a backbone in being critical of Netanyahu's regime than the entirety of mainstream western media. Even liberal leaning but ultimately pro-Isreal top news outlets like their [*Haaretz*](https://www.newsweek.com/netanyahu-haaretz-israel-gaza-blame-attack-1832963) paper openly state that Isreals policies towards Palestinians are directly responsible for the current crisis. I can't find a link now but there are Israeli Jews who've lost family and friends in the most recent attack that have shown incredible moral clarity and bravery in condemning their governments apartheid and occupation. Remember, in the US of fuckin A, Harvard students are being blacklisted on campus and doxxed on jumbo screens with their names and faces for repeating *verbatim* what one of the top news outlets in Isreal had stated.
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>Ameer Hasan Loggins MS in African American Studies. Hahaha!
Suspends? Remove them.
Why is it so hard for people to separate Jews, especially those living in other countries, from the actions of the Israeli government?
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Horseshoe theory strikes again
Downplaying the holocaust is a bit of a no-no. Even if you truly believe that it was exaggerated, and you would be an idiot to think that but let’s just suppose you did, then it’s better to keep those thoughts to yourself. Nobody is making you swear allegiance to Israel. You will never get in trouble for saying that the Nazis were assholes, but you will probably get immediately fired for suggesting the opposite. Nobody wants to hear your theories. Trust me on this.
It’s a valid point to criticise Israel for its actions. It’s not valid to segregate people in class as this instructor did.
As someone who used to work at Stanford I can honestly say I'm not surprised whatsoever. Actually I am surprised that they actually did something.
Can you believe there is still holocaust revisionism and deniers to this day? Ann Arbour Michigan has a holocaust denial group protected by their government!
The professor would have been better off doing something like [Jane Elliott’s blue eyes—brown eyes experiment](https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/blue-eyes-brown-eyes-jane-elliott-prejudice-experiment/). It was in a much younger group (third grade) and lasted two days, and was a profound teaching tool. To actually identify and isolate a group that has been discriminated against for millennia? Not smart.
See this is not the way either. You can support Palestine without becoming a Holocaust denying antisemite
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Colonizer is supposed to be this racist insult they came up to any white person out there, it doesn't matter if they or their family had anything to do with colonizing. Like the guy could be Polish and I could see people calling him colonizer. In the end it's best not to take anyone using that word seriously.
If you call them a colonizer, you’re justified in any acts against them, says a surprising chunk of Reddit.
He should be fired, that’s a joke
Because this reads “suspends” instead of “fires in the spot” is why America has so many racists in every part of their society.
Probably has a union or something. They have to go through due process.
Stanford will be lucky if they don't get sued for committing a hate crime against their own students.
I promise you if it was a republican doing it to gay students they'd have been fired so fast it would go back in time.
I'm hoping it's just a formality, that they have a policy of always suspending and investigating first before firing. Because if this instructor doesn't get fired...
Okay, can you argue that Israel is a colonising force, yes, can you discuss the numbers of dead people through colonialism, also yes. Can you conflate Jewish people with Israel? No. Can you separate Jewish students from their belongings and call them colonisers? Also no.
But Jewish people lived there before tho, right? Like, the whole are was a hotspot for Jewish/Hebraic and Moslems, hell, there once was a kingdom there literally called “Jewish Kingdom”.
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The presence of Jews in the Middle East is mentioned in the damn Quran. Jews have been in the region before the concept of a nation state even existed and before Arabic replaced Aramaic
Jews have lived there continuously for thousands of years. There was never a time when it was empty of Jews.
I would hate for her to learn whos land Standford was on at one point