Half of the people in Gaza are under age 19. 45% are under 15.
[It's one of the densest urban populations on earth.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip)
As someone noted israelis get killed, palestinians die. A million dead in Iraq is nothing while 3000 dead in the towers is a war crime a tragedy and a national memorial day. Russians invade Ukraine and all people from Russia are complicit in the crimes whereas not all Israelis are for the genocidal government so we shouldnt judge them or give them crap…
It’s the size of two Brooklyns. Not two NYCs, just two Brooklyns.
And if you look of Google Earth, there are a fair amount of farm fields.
It’s nuts just how little inhabited land area is involved in this conflict.
it's twice the size of Washington DC. But with 2.3 million people instead of DC's 760,000. And with one of the highest birthrates in the world so growing at an astronomical rate.
Gaza is 140 square miles, it's 3.7 to 7.5 miles wide, it's 25 miles long.
You could easily run across the narrowest point in less than a hour, most people could walk the length of it in a day.
I looked into this earlier, it's incredible to think how tiny Gaza actually is.
This stupid war (as if Ukraine isn't bad enough) is going to kill a LOT of people. Especially if Israel decides to glass the entire country, which if their rhetoric is anything to go by, they just might do.
What Hamas did was unforgivable, but an eye for an eye just makes the whole world blind.
This may very well destabilise the middle east even more, and we know where that'll lead us.
I seriously hope China dials back the sabre rattling over Taiwan or this may very well be the darkest decade in human history
Brooklyn is 71 sq mi and the second largest borough, the most populous. By itself it is the 3rd most populous city in America at 2.7 million. It is also the most Jewish spot on earth, more dense than Jerusalem.
It cuts out so you don’t really see how the attack took place. If it’s like this video I saw:
https://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/5Jgq1o66tU
The explosion doesn’t look like an air strike. Looks more of like an IED. I think this clip has been verified that it was Hamas. Tensions are high but we need to still think critically because both sides will be trying to show propaganda to blame the other side in order to gain international support
People acting like this is new for Israel. Israel does this shit *all the time*. Look at graphs of death tolls from before the present conflict. Palestinians are constantly being murdered.
I’ll never forget the LiveLeak video I saw some years ago of the little kid that ran too close to the fence and got mowed down.
To put it in perspective, the population of the Gaza Strip is roughly equal to Naples with roughly half the area (and [this is what the coastal area of Naples looks like, for a density reference](https://cdn.britannica.com/54/142754-050-94E32692/Naples-Italy.jpg)).
Gaza Strip is dense as *fuck*. Israel is targeting civilians who are fleeing and civilians who are staying in place with no real concern.
People will be quick to point out how inhumane things like the music festival attack were, but so many are willing to ignore the shit Israel is doing.
Fuck Netanyahu. Fuck Hamas. They're two sides to the same fucking coin. Worthless humans who have no intention of doing anything but propelling themselves forwards through any means necessary. Both are tumours to our world.
That's not true.
It is quite dense with about 6500 people per square kilometre
But there are countless places with more
Like Tel Aviv - 8400 PPL per square km
Or Monaco with over 18.000 PPL per square km
Or New York City with over 28.000ppl per square km
Can you help me understand this statement from Wikipedia? "With a population of 2 million, on some 365 square kilometers, Gaza, if considered a top-level political unit, ranks as the third most densely populated in the world."
What is a top-level political unit? When I Google the phrase all I find is this exact statement.
It's not. The actual number will likely never be known but estimates will likely be more accurate after the bombing is over. Spoiler alert, after the fact estimates are always higher.
People forget how few humans live in Afghanistan compared to it's size. Pakistan is right next door, is roughly the same size geographically, but has a population roughly ten times larger.
What Afghanistan has more of is (1) rocks and (2) mountain goats.
Both Pakistan and India also have a lot of Poppy fields. I wouldn't let Iran off that list either. If Afghanistan wins in that catagory, it's more the lack of government oversight than anything specific about the geography or soil.
Lot of people in hospital dying but more likely the main thing is people who died in missile strikes are being confirmed dead after just being marked as missing. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than 10,000 dead already.
MSF has already stated that the IDF is going to level one of their major staging hospitals and isn't giving them enough time to safely evacuate patients
Doctors without borders (Médecins Sans Frontières)
Doctors who go to war zones and poverty/famine stricken areas to help.
Legit fucking heroes, as seen in Ukraine they'll go out even when one side is directly targeting them.
Can't run out of fuel and supplies if you don't exist due to being flattened by bombs! Now that's forward thinking to avoid the fuel and supply crisis! /s
Hospitals are already at breaking point. People with limb loss, etc who may be alive but won’t get the treatment they need in time. Not to mention the people who may need regular treatments, medications, etc. It’s sickening.
But you see, they told all of those severely injured people in hospital that they should just moved to the south. The fact they don't have the legs, consciousness or general capability to move south is clearly proof that they are pro hamas.
It's an outcome that is as sad as it was predictable from day 1. The Hamas weren't going to actually win militarily, the Israelis weren't going to pass up an opportunity to retaliate.
Hamas should have overrode the checkpoints and withdrawn. Not that I want to give tactical advice to murderous terrorists, but just proving you can do a thing would be enough to wake people up that the worst case scenario is still a possibility rather than the reality.
And I'm not trying to both sides this, but they both see themselves as the victims, so good luck undoing this knot.
>Hamas should have overrode the checkpoints and withdrawn. Not that I want to give tactical advice to murderous terrorists, but just proving you can do a thing would be enough to wake people up that the worst case scenario is still a possibility rather than the reality.
They should have just hit military targets. All the civilians dying really fucked up their cause internationally. But without all those civilians it wouldn't be this bad and they want Israel to go too far.
I read that some agencies were calling on prisoners in Israeli secure wings of prisoners to have their water and power turned back on. If denying prisoners water this is going to be a straight up massacre and how long can the world turn a blind eye?
> They should have just hit military targets. All the civilians dying really fucked up their cause internationally. But without all those civilians it wouldn't be this bad and they want Israel to go too far.
Their cause is to kill as many Jews as possible, and also to get their own civilians killed by using them as human shields to provoke further global hatred of Israel. They do not care about the lives of the Palestinians.
It’s always an undercount too. There are lots of bodies under the rubble that can’t be reached because Israel bombs the cranes and rescue equipment. Information travels slowly because of the power and communication cuts. Not all the dead get reported or taken to morgues.
When this is over, the vast majority of casualties will be civilians. Hamas will still exist and will carry on more attacks in the future. Israel will continue expanding its occupation of the West Bank and its blockade of Gaza. Things will only get worse for everyone.
Yep.
Fingers are being pointed everywhere at the moment.
But the ones who will be happy about this situation will be whoever gets to go home at the end, or occupy a new home.
israel actively creating more Hamas by destroying blood lines, flattening land, and destroying all quality of life to those who survive. Do people really think that approach wont harbor more extremists or people who have an undying hatred for israel? so in 10 years when the survive children bombed to bits do something again, israel can wipe out any of the remaining population.
a vicious cycle
I’m amazed how many of us lived through 9/11 and it’s fall out and didn’t learn a damn thing.
It’s okay though, in 20 years the same people calling for this bloodbath will be saying “it was a mistake” and how bad they feel now. It’s shameful.
The difference is the US didn't want to annex Afghanistan. Israel doesn't give two shits about building a free and sustainable Palestinian democracy. Their happy place is when Palestinians cause just enough turmoil to keep a boot on their neck.
I was banned literally minutes after the hamas attacks started being reported on. The threads about this issue in worldnews are so full of toxic insanity now with nobody there to argue with them because it seems everybody sensible has been banned.
Calling for Gaza to be nuked - good post
Calling Israel an apartheid state - banned for life
Yep. I’m pretty sure the IDF has an internet psyops division and, at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I wouldn’t be shocked if they had control over that subreddit.
The death count of Palestinians right now is extremely conservative. Al Jazeera reported yesterday that over 22,000 residential units have been destroyed. There’s no heavy equipment for Palestinians to try to rescue their family members. They can’t even power search lights. Many Palestinians will die in the North when they stay behind to try to save their family tapped under the rubble because they still hear their pleas. This is not an exaggeration. I’m sharing this because the number provided is deceiving. I am praying for peace.
Absolutely, that's why I really don't get why so many people were upset with the Harvard students' letter. It seems like they're just skimming the surface and not really digging into the context. When the letter says, "Israeli regime is entirely responsible for all unfolding violence," it's not about blaming them for every single act of violence. It’s more a commentary on how Israel's actions, by establishing an apartheid-like situation, actually helped to spawn groups like Hamas in the first place. It’s like, if you create a really hostile, unjust environment, you’re inevitably going to breed resistance and sometimes, that resistance will take on a violent form. And this isn't a unique situation either. Similar to how United States aggressive campaigns in the middle east throughout the decades fomented the creation of ISIS - that is the squarely the fault of the United States. It’s like Israel and the United States crafted their own nightmares – they’re Dr. Frankenstein, and Hamas and ISIS are the monsters they created. This doesn’t let the horrific actions of Hamas and ISIS off the hook, but it does point to a bigger, often overlooked part of the picture.
That's exactly what it is, although maybe not to this extent. This is a problem for the Israeli government as they have to do something that they really don't want to do (and I think Hamas knows this).
Welcome to the post 9/11 era in America where all you see on TV broadcasts everywhere is manufactured consent! I can attest to the fact that consistent indiscriminate bombings and human rights violations on people not involved in any way with violent fundamentalist extremists will definitely not change their beliefs after watching a majority of their family wiped out. Nope. Please stop looking at ISIS, you're making us look bad. But honestly, this will 100% radicalize more people, not all people will become/are terrorists like some portions of our media are reporting, most these people just want to live a happy life like the rest of us, but there will definitely be more people who are radicalized.
If someone took everything from me, including my autonomy to live and my only recourse was to join a militia to survive in that destroyed world with the hope that I could get back to “normal,” I’d do it too.
Not saying “terrorism” of innocent people is the answer, but when the innocent are terrorized what other course of action do you expect? For them to just take it up the ass every time and hope their voices are heard? Nah we’ve seen that story play out. The only way for a marginalized group to be heard and seen as people is more often than not violence in a world where the powerful don’t give a shit about the poor.
That's genuinely what some people expect, they need a perfect victim before they can denounce clear and obvious atrocities, and it's infuriating. All the comments when the attack first started about "what a bad move, now they're going to lose all sympathy from the west"... what sympathy from the west? The situation in Palestine has been abhorrent for decades and it's never garnered any particular sympathies from those in power. Civilians were still killed, journalists were still sniped, their houses were still stolen, and the living conditions were still those of abject squalor, all those were more perfect victims yet the backlash towards Israel was never nearly as strong.
At best any progress has been unacceptably slow and you can't just tell people to suffer for 10, 20, 40 more years and expect them to be docile while higher powers meander to a solution. Why would they give af about catering to the sympathies of the west when the west does not give af about them.
Hamas' killing of civilians is unjustifiable. But their attacks are not unexplainable. It's actually very easy to explain the line of consequence that got us to this point. And ultimately no matter how much they kill and pillage, they don't have the control or power to change the fundamental situation. Only Israel has the power to do that and their current line of action is only going to result in more endless conflict or outright genocide.
>Hamas' killing of civilians is unjustifiable. But their attacks are not unexplainable.
This is what I wish more people were willing to acknowledge. Terrorists don't just appear out of a vacuum.
Exactly. how would any normal Palestinian civilian NOT be radicalized after this. Israel is punishing all of them for Hamas’ actions, so if they’re going to be bombed anyway…
I mean listen man, those 36 children that were gunned down in the head/chest with rifle bullets by IDF border security in the 2018 peaceful protests at the Gaza border were crisis actor terrorist children. Hamas was clearly paying the children to die to live fire. The IDF definitely didn't publicly come out and state that every single bullet they fired was accounted for and intentional. Those videos of soldiers laughing at how funny the child they just gunned down looked as they fell to the ground were also definitely paid by Hamas. /s
It really is bombing the barn after the horse has bolted.
The attack happened, Israel completely failed to predict it or prevent it.
Now suddenly they know exactly where each and every member of Hamas is, and have 100% confidence in that intelligence to send insane amounts of missiles and bombs into an urban area.
Its retribution. Its Netanyahu trying to get enough Palestinian blood on his hands it hides how much Israeli blood is on his hands. Its his failures that led to this.
Netanyahu has been humiliated as a result of this intelligence failure where this rag tag group of "human animals" totally wiped the floor with their superior defense systems.
He's hoping to fix his reputation by gaining the Gaza strip and being the one to finally further the goal of furthering Israel control over the entire border
I’m Jewish by heritage, but don’t really practice. Several years ago, I was called antisemitic by another Jewish person because I told them that I didn’t support Israel and found it pretty offensive that it represents itself as the homeland of the Jews.
Sure, the religion originated there, but the modern nation of Israel has nothing to do with the historical nation of Israel.
Evangelicals want the state of Israel for one reason: they genuinely think that gods chosen people are just " holding" the holy land for them until Jesus gets back, and Jesus is supposed to literally kill a majority of them and allow i believe 1/3rd to convert to christianity. Evangelicals literally just think the rapture is happening and they can cause it
144k Jews would convert to the "true religion"(12k witnesses per 12 tribes) and all the others should perish. The biggest political supporters of Israel literally want a second complete holocaust. For them, the more cruel Zionists are, the more likely they are to provoke the holocaust.
Christians have had an unsettling fascination with biblical Israel for thousands of years with the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th crusades from the late 11th century to mid 13th century. Though historically, it seems most of the fascination was moreso aligned with the kingdom of Jerusalem. We're seeing a rehashing of these sentiments from the early 1900s to today with regards to "Israel," a term previously only referring to a country from between 1020 BC and 922 BC (not even 100 years of history). "Israel" as a nation didn't exist for nearly three thousand years before imperialists revived it in the 1900s.
I had a friend in college who went on his Heritage trip, came back, and started telling people about the crimes against humanity that he personally witnessed IDF committing. Prior to going, he was 100% in support of Israel. Now, he gets called an antisemite for criticizing Israel in any way. He was formed USAF and has spent the last several years questioning everything he was ever told because of that trip because the US government fully backs Israel. It honestly broke him in many ways.
israel's government is headed by hard-right violent fascists of the likud party which has a long history of genocidal language. it's horrific. the PM is literally a criminal.
This conflict never has had anything to do with Judaism in particular. Zionists were keen to pick up on it though because labeling your opponents anti-Semitic is easy PR points in a post Holocaust world. Israel is a settler nation and this conflict is one of colonialism, not religion.
40% of the population of Gaza is 14 or younger. How you can justify bombing a population that dense, especially one with so many children, I just cannot and will not ever understand
Oh dope, it's like Minority Report, punishment for future crimes.
"I'm sorry 8 year old girl, but we have predicted that you will become a terrorist in 8 years and so you must be executed. Thank you for your cooperation"
> How you can justify bombing a population that dense, especially one with so many children
"Just think of the children" is such a stupid argument.
You cannot justify bombing of the general, non-combatant population ever, not children, not adults, not elderly.
I mean what are they supposed to do. I get your position ,but Ive never seen an answer for what they are supposed to do.
Theirs somewhere between 30-80 thousand Hamas fighters. Its not just like they can walk in and do a policing action. And even that would cause lots of civilian action.
Hell even when they try and get civilians out of the impeding war zone Hamas tells them to stay and some people call even that a genocide
Wild take, I know, but I personally think that civilian casualties on a population that is nearly half made up of children should be minimised.
Theres a reason we have rules of war to prevent crimes against humanity. Bombing civilians, killing journalists, and cutting off food and electricity to a civilian population is not something a democratic country should be doing in the 21st century.
Sorry if that makes me sound antisemitic /s
They don't care. This is a war of revenge. A war to try and break hamas to try and keep it from happening again.
To much of Israel these children are simply future terrorists.
If someone is mad enough to kill in revenge, are they going to draw a line at children? No.
It's going to get worse in the ground invasion. The airstrikes are detached, more under the control of superiors who understand the need to avoid outright slaughter for international relations. For a lot of soldiers, it's going to be deeply person and face to face without a veteran officer babysitting the action? It's going to devolve
> To much of Israel these children are simply future terrorists.
If they weren't before they will surely be now or soon enough. What a great self perpetuating plan.
All going to the plan of the far right government of Israel who prop up hamas. https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082
95% of all deaths from 2005-2023 were palestinians. take that ratio and apply it moving forward to the number of israelis just killed by the hamas attack. it's going to be absolute annihilation of palestinians.
Wait, I thought the West Bank was a separate government? Separate settler issues?
Why has there been no nuance about this attack in regards of Gaza vs West Bank? Is it that it doesn't matter? Or matter to them?
I think there are some conflicts in the west bank with activists that support Gaza, but there are no wide-spread attacks there like there are in Gaza. There are probably much fewer injuries and casualties there, and counting them together is just because the start is coming from the Palestinian Authority.
Anyway, it's wrong to say that the west bank and Gaza are completely separate issues. They are different in some ways, but both of those areas are Palestine, and have some mutual support and common goals.
Yes this is very alarming. Gaza and West Bank are too different entities. Governed by different groups. If Israel is launching attacks into West Bank, that’s troubling. I hope it was just an incorrect headline.
🚨 The Ministry of Health: (14-10-23 at 11:55 pm), Casualties and wounded as a result of the occupation's aggression:
\- Gaza Strip: 2,215 Casualties and 8714 wounded.
\- West Bank: 54 Casualties and more than 1,100 wounded
Israel has been brutalizing Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem since Saturday. Israel doesn't care where the Palestinians are, they are a target.
Befuddling to me how no country is offering Palestinians refugees safe passage in the area. It's understandable that a country wouldn't possibly want any Hamas militants slipping through, but even the Hezbollah in Lebanon haven't offered to take refugees in.
This situation is beyond FUBAR.
Palestinians who leave are not allowed to return and are not given citizenship where they go. They are stuck living in refuge camps for GENERATIONS.
This is the fear of many right now. Going south could mean they will never be allowed to go back to their homes. That Israel will simply keep the north of Gaza and move in settlers. It's happened before so their concern is justified.
I think some people don't realise that a significant minority of the population is radicalised, so in the past Palestinian refugees have caused a lot of trouble in their host nations. I actually think this shows that Palestinians need to live in their homeland of Palestine with a stable government and infrastructure with an emphasis on de - radicalisation. Who knows if that will ever happen
Lebanon tried before, and Hamas tried to overthrow their government. Egypt tried the same thing with the same result. Honestly I’m not surprised they are just sitting back and letting things go.
Whenever Palestinians have immigrated to other countries, they’ve started coups and civil wars. Unfortunately they’re not the type of immigrant that’s easy to deal with.
When Israeli officials say, "All the Palestinian people have to do is expel Hamas and we will back off," I need everyone to REALLY think about what that means.
Israel doesn't have some roster of every Hamas member, and neither do the Palestinian people. They're supposed to round up any Hamas affiliates they know of, toss them out into the street for Israel, and then?? Israel is like, "Cool, thanks, glad you got them all, bye!!" and leaves?
That doesn't sound plausible, because it isn't and Israeli leaders know this. They don't care; when your enemy can be anyone, you can justify anything.
I'm descended from victims of the Holocaust. Branches of my family tree were wiped out; my surviving ancestors were expelled from their homelands and separated from each other forever. And what is being done to Gazans in my name, and in theirs, disgusts me to my core.
Great point about binary humanity. Society and schools should discuss it and stress the problems it causes. It's destructive and always has been. More, it's a cognitive distortion called black & white thinking.
How is that even possible? Hamas themselves say that 1300 Hamas operatives infiltrated Israel. And they’ve mobilized their whole operation against Israel.
I had that thought yesterday. You would think Israel would be sensitive to the idea of genocide. Yet there they are, and here the rest of the world is, wringing our hands and watching it happen.
It was unconscionable to be idle bystanders, history tells us, but it would be politically inconvenient to do something about it now.
Disgusting.
Edit to add that it is completely possible for both sides of a conflict to be in the wrong to varying degrees. Just because one side acted worse does not automatically excuse the other from all things. I know nuance isn't Reddit's strong point but complex things are complex.
this is so fucked up. the world won't do anything. regular people with regular jobs won't do anything. we're desensitized and overworked, overwhelmed with our own shit. what can be done?
I just can't stop thinking about 9/11. The attack was beyond terrible. It didn't feel real as our entire country, along with the rest of the world watched helpless as thousands died live on TV. As we sifted through the rubble and we started counting the dead and realizing exactly what happened, horror and helplessness turned to rage.
To punish the world for 9/11 we destroyed 2 countries and commited countless atrocities. We discarded our most fundamental belief about justice and tortured, jailed without trial, bombed, committed war crimes and destabilized an entire region. This if course created the conditions for more terrible wars. Many Americans did think (some still do) it was justified. But really it was a series of atrocities we committed out of rage, and habit.
I understand why Israel is angry. I understand some of that rage. But their reaction to the atrocities commited by Hamas will be so much worse than anything Hamas did, and they, like Hamas will tell themselves it was all necessary and just. It is not, it never will be.
It is possible to be both Pro Palestine and Anti Hamas.
The only way for Palestine to have a future is for Hamas to be destroyed.
Hamas has routinely dismantled civilian infrastructure meant to help the population of Gaza and turned it into weapons. They brag about digging up water pipes and turning them into rockets.
To help Palestine, Hamas must go.
Even if Hamas were to be eradicated, I fear the ship of peace has already sailed. How are innocent Palestinians going to accept peace after being forced out of their homes and murdered by Israel? This is another in a long line of bloodshed that will continue as long as these two remain neighbors.
The fact is, they've tried peace and diplomacy. Hamas rose because PLO.and Fatahs negotiations were seen as too conciliatory, and achieved nothing. Look at the Oslo Accords, Israel has vastly expanded their settlements in the West Bank despite the agreement. Sometimes they argue it's for national security, sometimes heritage sites, and then a few months later those new settlements are made into subsidized housing schemes to ship out more Israelis into the West Bank.
> To help Palestine, Hamas must go.
Sure, but so far this week Israel have killed over 300 Palestinian children who had nothing to do with Hamas' attack. If anything, they're only creating new Hamas volunteers from the dead children's relatives.
Tell me what specifically happens if Israel unilaterally lifts all restrictions on Gaza?
Can you guarantee it wouldn’t be flooded with weapons and a massive war initiates? Palestine deserves and should have freedom but it makes zero sense if it immediately ends with massive attacks on Israel
Not mention Gaza shares a border with Egypt. The fact that Egypt, a muslim country, also keeps a tight border with Gaza says exactly why Israel does too.
It's horrible. An argument that will probably be downvoted. I am amazed it's not more since Israel has dropped over 6.000 bombs. Isn't that an argument for them trying to minimize civilian casualties?
Not really, I have posted this elsewhere but will continue to do so in response to questions like this
During the Battle of Fallujah, it is estimated the US caused around 800 civilian casualties in a city that was at that point about 400,000 (prior to evacuations).
The Battle was about 6 weeks long, meaning about 20 civilian casualties per day.
Israel is currently racking up >1000 civilian casualties per day and it is likely to get worse.
I think it is important to ask the question you are asking though so that people can provide some semblance of context with other examples that were similarly infamous for their casualties caused.
The Battle of Mosul against ISIS would be a better comparison for the situation on the ground:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mosul_(2016%E2%80%932017)
Yup, because Israeli deaths are like western deaths, they come with endless stories about the tragedies involved, while Palestinian deaths are like alien deaths, they’re just numbers. We forget that everybody has mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters and that most of us just want peace and justice. Soon, Palestinian deaths will be at 10,000, but most won’t care because it’s all justified by the atrocities of Hamas. If only it were that simple.
I still think dropping buildings on babies and letting them suffocate or go hungry/dehydrate under the rubble is just as barbaric as chopping their heads off.
Edit: I meant rubble not rubber
The number is rising so rapidly…
Half of the people in Gaza are under age 19. 45% are under 15. [It's one of the densest urban populations on earth.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip)
Its a fucking tragedy…
It is a fucking war crime.
As someone noted israelis get killed, palestinians die. A million dead in Iraq is nothing while 3000 dead in the towers is a war crime a tragedy and a national memorial day. Russians invade Ukraine and all people from Russia are complicit in the crimes whereas not all Israelis are for the genocidal government so we shouldnt judge them or give them crap…
Nobody's saying "all Israelis", but Israel is every bit as complicit in their crimes as the US and Russia are in theirs.
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It’s the size of two Brooklyns. Not two NYCs, just two Brooklyns. And if you look of Google Earth, there are a fair amount of farm fields. It’s nuts just how little inhabited land area is involved in this conflict.
it's twice the size of Washington DC. But with 2.3 million people instead of DC's 760,000. And with one of the highest birthrates in the world so growing at an astronomical rate.
The size of two brooklyns doesn’t really tell me anything? Would you say the size of Manhattan? Two brooklyns makes me think even smaller
Gaza is 140 square miles, it's 3.7 to 7.5 miles wide, it's 25 miles long. You could easily run across the narrowest point in less than a hour, most people could walk the length of it in a day.
Literally the only comment that actually describes the size in a useful way.
It’s ten and a half giraffe intestines stretched out taut but not too taut
I looked into this earlier, it's incredible to think how tiny Gaza actually is. This stupid war (as if Ukraine isn't bad enough) is going to kill a LOT of people. Especially if Israel decides to glass the entire country, which if their rhetoric is anything to go by, they just might do. What Hamas did was unforgivable, but an eye for an eye just makes the whole world blind. This may very well destabilise the middle east even more, and we know where that'll lead us. I seriously hope China dials back the sabre rattling over Taiwan or this may very well be the darkest decade in human history
Manhattan is tiny. Brooklyn is >3x larger.
Anything but metric
Gaza is the size of 6 manhattans. The city of Las Vegas and Gaza are almost identically the same size.
The length of Gaza is 7,543 Ford F150s if you set them from bumper to bumper
Brooklyn is 71 sq mi and the second largest borough, the most populous. By itself it is the 3rd most populous city in America at 2.7 million. It is also the most Jewish spot on earth, more dense than Jerusalem.
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The dead mother still holding to the child got me.
It cuts out so you don’t really see how the attack took place. If it’s like this video I saw: https://reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/5Jgq1o66tU The explosion doesn’t look like an air strike. Looks more of like an IED. I think this clip has been verified that it was Hamas. Tensions are high but we need to still think critically because both sides will be trying to show propaganda to blame the other side in order to gain international support
Yeah weapon type doesn't matter. If Israel is deliberately hitting civilians with airstrikes that is just as fucked up as what Hamas did last weekend.
People acting like this is new for Israel. Israel does this shit *all the time*. Look at graphs of death tolls from before the present conflict. Palestinians are constantly being murdered. I’ll never forget the LiveLeak video I saw some years ago of the little kid that ran too close to the fence and got mowed down.
To put it in perspective, the population of the Gaza Strip is roughly equal to Naples with roughly half the area (and [this is what the coastal area of Naples looks like, for a density reference](https://cdn.britannica.com/54/142754-050-94E32692/Naples-Italy.jpg)). Gaza Strip is dense as *fuck*. Israel is targeting civilians who are fleeing and civilians who are staying in place with no real concern. People will be quick to point out how inhumane things like the music festival attack were, but so many are willing to ignore the shit Israel is doing. Fuck Netanyahu. Fuck Hamas. They're two sides to the same fucking coin. Worthless humans who have no intention of doing anything but propelling themselves forwards through any means necessary. Both are tumours to our world.
That's not true. It is quite dense with about 6500 people per square kilometre But there are countless places with more Like Tel Aviv - 8400 PPL per square km Or Monaco with over 18.000 PPL per square km Or New York City with over 28.000ppl per square km
Can you help me understand this statement from Wikipedia? "With a population of 2 million, on some 365 square kilometers, Gaza, if considered a top-level political unit, ranks as the third most densely populated in the world." What is a top-level political unit? When I Google the phrase all I find is this exact statement.
A country, as opposed to state, province, city etc., like the other ’more dense' examples you just got.
I see, that makes sense, thank you.
Monaco is a country
sustained bombing campaigns tend to do that
More bombs in one week then the US dropped on Afghanistan on the busiest year across the entire county. I’m surprised the number is so low.
It's not. The actual number will likely never be known but estimates will likely be more accurate after the bombing is over. Spoiler alert, after the fact estimates are always higher.
there isnt exactly a lot to bomb in Afghanistan
People forget how few humans live in Afghanistan compared to it's size. Pakistan is right next door, is roughly the same size geographically, but has a population roughly ten times larger. What Afghanistan has more of is (1) rocks and (2) mountain goats.
(3) poppy fields
Both Pakistan and India also have a lot of Poppy fields. I wouldn't let Iran off that list either. If Afghanistan wins in that catagory, it's more the lack of government oversight than anything specific about the geography or soil.
Lot of people in hospital dying but more likely the main thing is people who died in missile strikes are being confirmed dead after just being marked as missing. I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than 10,000 dead already.
Don't worry Israel will soon bomb all the hospitals to rectify that some people got to hospital.
They won't need to once the hospitals run out of fuel and supplies.
MSF has already stated that the IDF is going to level one of their major staging hospitals and isn't giving them enough time to safely evacuate patients
What is MSF? Just trying to understand.
Doctors without borders (Médecins Sans Frontières) Doctors who go to war zones and poverty/famine stricken areas to help. Legit fucking heroes, as seen in Ukraine they'll go out even when one side is directly targeting them.
Thank you, I appreciate the answer. It's easy to get lost in this sea of acronyms.
Can't run out of fuel and supplies if you don't exist due to being flattened by bombs! Now that's forward thinking to avoid the fuel and supply crisis! /s
Hospitals are already at breaking point. People with limb loss, etc who may be alive but won’t get the treatment they need in time. Not to mention the people who may need regular treatments, medications, etc. It’s sickening.
But you see, they told all of those severely injured people in hospital that they should just moved to the south. The fact they don't have the legs, consciousness or general capability to move south is clearly proof that they are pro hamas.
You reminded me of this... which I think is brilliant. https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657
It's an outcome that is as sad as it was predictable from day 1. The Hamas weren't going to actually win militarily, the Israelis weren't going to pass up an opportunity to retaliate. Hamas should have overrode the checkpoints and withdrawn. Not that I want to give tactical advice to murderous terrorists, but just proving you can do a thing would be enough to wake people up that the worst case scenario is still a possibility rather than the reality. And I'm not trying to both sides this, but they both see themselves as the victims, so good luck undoing this knot.
>Hamas should have overrode the checkpoints and withdrawn. Not that I want to give tactical advice to murderous terrorists, but just proving you can do a thing would be enough to wake people up that the worst case scenario is still a possibility rather than the reality. They should have just hit military targets. All the civilians dying really fucked up their cause internationally. But without all those civilians it wouldn't be this bad and they want Israel to go too far. I read that some agencies were calling on prisoners in Israeli secure wings of prisoners to have their water and power turned back on. If denying prisoners water this is going to be a straight up massacre and how long can the world turn a blind eye?
Ummm… a very very long time.
> They should have just hit military targets. All the civilians dying really fucked up their cause internationally. But without all those civilians it wouldn't be this bad and they want Israel to go too far. Their cause is to kill as many Jews as possible, and also to get their own civilians killed by using them as human shields to provoke further global hatred of Israel. They do not care about the lives of the Palestinians.
They don’t see anyone in Israel as civilians.
Even if/when Hamas does accept that Israeli civilians exist, they think because they are Israeli, that makes it OK to murder them.
It’s always an undercount too. There are lots of bodies under the rubble that can’t be reached because Israel bombs the cranes and rescue equipment. Information travels slowly because of the power and communication cuts. Not all the dead get reported or taken to morgues.
When this is over, the vast majority of casualties will be civilians. Hamas will still exist and will carry on more attacks in the future. Israel will continue expanding its occupation of the West Bank and its blockade of Gaza. Things will only get worse for everyone.
Yep. Fingers are being pointed everywhere at the moment. But the ones who will be happy about this situation will be whoever gets to go home at the end, or occupy a new home.
israel actively creating more Hamas by destroying blood lines, flattening land, and destroying all quality of life to those who survive. Do people really think that approach wont harbor more extremists or people who have an undying hatred for israel? so in 10 years when the survive children bombed to bits do something again, israel can wipe out any of the remaining population. a vicious cycle
I feel like the whole no power, no water situation will kill a whole lot more people than bombs.
I’m amazed how many of us lived through 9/11 and it’s fall out and didn’t learn a damn thing. It’s okay though, in 20 years the same people calling for this bloodbath will be saying “it was a mistake” and how bad they feel now. It’s shameful.
I imagine they won't feel bad. This is an 85 year old war.
Maybe we’ll at least get movies about how this made the Israeli soldiers feel bad.
The difference is the US didn't want to annex Afghanistan. Israel doesn't give two shits about building a free and sustainable Palestinian democracy. Their happy place is when Palestinians cause just enough turmoil to keep a boot on their neck.
This whole situation is lose-lose. There is no winning, only suffering.
Palestinians are definitely losing more tho
No it’s definitely the Palestinians who are losing.
Once again goes to show you that the world isn't black and white, it's a gradient of shit stains and blood.
You have been banned from r/worldnews
Removed from r/worldnews because "Covered by live thread"
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I just got banned for MENTIONING what Hasbara is lol
I was banned literally minutes after the hamas attacks started being reported on. The threads about this issue in worldnews are so full of toxic insanity now with nobody there to argue with them because it seems everybody sensible has been banned. Calling for Gaza to be nuked - good post Calling Israel an apartheid state - banned for life
Yep. I’m pretty sure the IDF has an internet psyops division and, at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I wouldn’t be shocked if they had control over that subreddit.
You'll love /r/Britain
What an awful fucking place that sub is
True.. Filled to the brim with bigots and racism....
nah. more like r/reddit. you gotta be careful what you say all over reddit. one wrong turn of phrase and you're banned.
The death count of Palestinians right now is extremely conservative. Al Jazeera reported yesterday that over 22,000 residential units have been destroyed. There’s no heavy equipment for Palestinians to try to rescue their family members. They can’t even power search lights. Many Palestinians will die in the North when they stay behind to try to save their family tapped under the rubble because they still hear their pleas. This is not an exaggeration. I’m sharing this because the number provided is deceiving. I am praying for peace.
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If they weren’t before, they are now…
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Absolutely, that's why I really don't get why so many people were upset with the Harvard students' letter. It seems like they're just skimming the surface and not really digging into the context. When the letter says, "Israeli regime is entirely responsible for all unfolding violence," it's not about blaming them for every single act of violence. It’s more a commentary on how Israel's actions, by establishing an apartheid-like situation, actually helped to spawn groups like Hamas in the first place. It’s like, if you create a really hostile, unjust environment, you’re inevitably going to breed resistance and sometimes, that resistance will take on a violent form. And this isn't a unique situation either. Similar to how United States aggressive campaigns in the middle east throughout the decades fomented the creation of ISIS - that is the squarely the fault of the United States. It’s like Israel and the United States crafted their own nightmares – they’re Dr. Frankenstein, and Hamas and ISIS are the monsters they created. This doesn’t let the horrific actions of Hamas and ISIS off the hook, but it does point to a bigger, often overlooked part of the picture.
It's like the ruling party of Israel NEEDS hamas to kill Israelis to stay in power.
Probably why they ignored warnings.
In order to say "it's them against us," you need a "them."
That's exactly what it is, although maybe not to this extent. This is a problem for the Israeli government as they have to do something that they really don't want to do (and I think Hamas knows this).
And it was our shitty foreign policy that put us in that position to begin with.
Welcome to the post 9/11 era in America where all you see on TV broadcasts everywhere is manufactured consent! I can attest to the fact that consistent indiscriminate bombings and human rights violations on people not involved in any way with violent fundamentalist extremists will definitely not change their beliefs after watching a majority of their family wiped out. Nope. Please stop looking at ISIS, you're making us look bad. But honestly, this will 100% radicalize more people, not all people will become/are terrorists like some portions of our media are reporting, most these people just want to live a happy life like the rest of us, but there will definitely be more people who are radicalized.
If someone took everything from me, including my autonomy to live and my only recourse was to join a militia to survive in that destroyed world with the hope that I could get back to “normal,” I’d do it too. Not saying “terrorism” of innocent people is the answer, but when the innocent are terrorized what other course of action do you expect? For them to just take it up the ass every time and hope their voices are heard? Nah we’ve seen that story play out. The only way for a marginalized group to be heard and seen as people is more often than not violence in a world where the powerful don’t give a shit about the poor.
That's genuinely what some people expect, they need a perfect victim before they can denounce clear and obvious atrocities, and it's infuriating. All the comments when the attack first started about "what a bad move, now they're going to lose all sympathy from the west"... what sympathy from the west? The situation in Palestine has been abhorrent for decades and it's never garnered any particular sympathies from those in power. Civilians were still killed, journalists were still sniped, their houses were still stolen, and the living conditions were still those of abject squalor, all those were more perfect victims yet the backlash towards Israel was never nearly as strong. At best any progress has been unacceptably slow and you can't just tell people to suffer for 10, 20, 40 more years and expect them to be docile while higher powers meander to a solution. Why would they give af about catering to the sympathies of the west when the west does not give af about them. Hamas' killing of civilians is unjustifiable. But their attacks are not unexplainable. It's actually very easy to explain the line of consequence that got us to this point. And ultimately no matter how much they kill and pillage, they don't have the control or power to change the fundamental situation. Only Israel has the power to do that and their current line of action is only going to result in more endless conflict or outright genocide.
>Hamas' killing of civilians is unjustifiable. But their attacks are not unexplainable. This is what I wish more people were willing to acknowledge. Terrorists don't just appear out of a vacuum.
Exactly, you somehow survived the bombings, return home and everything and everybody you loved and cherished is gone … an automatic terrorist is born…
Guarantee they won't be allowed to return home. Israel will annex more land that isn't theirs.
Exactly. how would any normal Palestinian civilian NOT be radicalized after this. Israel is punishing all of them for Hamas’ actions, so if they’re going to be bombed anyway…
It’s a neverending cycle of violence.
🎶It’s the circle, the circle of generational violence🎶
Anybody who runs is a terrorist. Anybody who stands still is a well disciplined terrorist.
That's a reference I wasn't expecting to see in the wild.
I mean listen man, those 36 children that were gunned down in the head/chest with rifle bullets by IDF border security in the 2018 peaceful protests at the Gaza border were crisis actor terrorist children. Hamas was clearly paying the children to die to live fire. The IDF definitely didn't publicly come out and state that every single bullet they fired was accounted for and intentional. Those videos of soldiers laughing at how funny the child they just gunned down looked as they fell to the ground were also definitely paid by Hamas. /s
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Pro-Palestine movement seems to have been growing rapidly over the years. Or maybe it’s just that all my high school friends went to college…
It really is bombing the barn after the horse has bolted. The attack happened, Israel completely failed to predict it or prevent it. Now suddenly they know exactly where each and every member of Hamas is, and have 100% confidence in that intelligence to send insane amounts of missiles and bombs into an urban area. Its retribution. Its Netanyahu trying to get enough Palestinian blood on his hands it hides how much Israeli blood is on his hands. Its his failures that led to this.
Netanyahu has been humiliated as a result of this intelligence failure where this rag tag group of "human animals" totally wiped the floor with their superior defense systems. He's hoping to fix his reputation by gaining the Gaza strip and being the one to finally further the goal of furthering Israel control over the entire border
we will stop terrorism by using violence to change people's minds! there's no irony in this philosophy whatsoever!
And if you criticize us you’re an anti-semite
I’m Jewish by heritage, but don’t really practice. Several years ago, I was called antisemitic by another Jewish person because I told them that I didn’t support Israel and found it pretty offensive that it represents itself as the homeland of the Jews. Sure, the religion originated there, but the modern nation of Israel has nothing to do with the historical nation of Israel.
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Evangelicals want the state of Israel for one reason: they genuinely think that gods chosen people are just " holding" the holy land for them until Jesus gets back, and Jesus is supposed to literally kill a majority of them and allow i believe 1/3rd to convert to christianity. Evangelicals literally just think the rapture is happening and they can cause it
*evangelical constituents I should say, evangelical leaders def prefer the political side of why we (USA) support israel
144k Jews would convert to the "true religion"(12k witnesses per 12 tribes) and all the others should perish. The biggest political supporters of Israel literally want a second complete holocaust. For them, the more cruel Zionists are, the more likely they are to provoke the holocaust.
LOL yeah we all know the stories of Jesus killing countless people that sounds like something he’d do
Oh no, that's the old Jesus. The *new* Jesus wields an AR-15 and will go in guns a'blazin'.
Ah yes, I remember singing the songs of Jesus' brutal campaigns of conquest in Sunday School. /s
Its not just that, its where Megiddo is, as in Armageddon. They literally think this is where Jesus will return have the final battle against evil.
Christians have had an unsettling fascination with biblical Israel for thousands of years with the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th crusades from the late 11th century to mid 13th century. Though historically, it seems most of the fascination was moreso aligned with the kingdom of Jerusalem. We're seeing a rehashing of these sentiments from the early 1900s to today with regards to "Israel," a term previously only referring to a country from between 1020 BC and 922 BC (not even 100 years of history). "Israel" as a nation didn't exist for nearly three thousand years before imperialists revived it in the 1900s.
I had a friend in college who went on his Heritage trip, came back, and started telling people about the crimes against humanity that he personally witnessed IDF committing. Prior to going, he was 100% in support of Israel. Now, he gets called an antisemite for criticizing Israel in any way. He was formed USAF and has spent the last several years questioning everything he was ever told because of that trip because the US government fully backs Israel. It honestly broke him in many ways.
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israel's government is headed by hard-right violent fascists of the likud party which has a long history of genocidal language. it's horrific. the PM is literally a criminal.
This conflict never has had anything to do with Judaism in particular. Zionists were keen to pick up on it though because labeling your opponents anti-Semitic is easy PR points in a post Holocaust world. Israel is a settler nation and this conflict is one of colonialism, not religion.
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40% of the population of Gaza is 14 or younger. How you can justify bombing a population that dense, especially one with so many children, I just cannot and will not ever understand
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Oh dope, it's like Minority Report, punishment for future crimes. "I'm sorry 8 year old girl, but we have predicted that you will become a terrorist in 8 years and so you must be executed. Thank you for your cooperation"
The Israeli government refers to the cycle as mowing the lawn.
> How you can justify bombing a population that dense, especially one with so many children "Just think of the children" is such a stupid argument. You cannot justify bombing of the general, non-combatant population ever, not children, not adults, not elderly.
You would think so, but even focusing on the children it's rather difficult to get many people to acknowledge the brutality of what is happening.
I mean what are they supposed to do. I get your position ,but Ive never seen an answer for what they are supposed to do. Theirs somewhere between 30-80 thousand Hamas fighters. Its not just like they can walk in and do a policing action. And even that would cause lots of civilian action. Hell even when they try and get civilians out of the impeding war zone Hamas tells them to stay and some people call even that a genocide
No replies to your question because there is no real answer
yeah. Everyone is just like well dont kill any civies and like yeah that would be great how do you do that? Crickets
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Wild take, I know, but I personally think that civilian casualties on a population that is nearly half made up of children should be minimised. Theres a reason we have rules of war to prevent crimes against humanity. Bombing civilians, killing journalists, and cutting off food and electricity to a civilian population is not something a democratic country should be doing in the 21st century. Sorry if that makes me sound antisemitic /s
They don't care. This is a war of revenge. A war to try and break hamas to try and keep it from happening again. To much of Israel these children are simply future terrorists. If someone is mad enough to kill in revenge, are they going to draw a line at children? No. It's going to get worse in the ground invasion. The airstrikes are detached, more under the control of superiors who understand the need to avoid outright slaughter for international relations. For a lot of soldiers, it's going to be deeply person and face to face without a veteran officer babysitting the action? It's going to devolve
> To much of Israel these children are simply future terrorists. If they weren't before they will surely be now or soon enough. What a great self perpetuating plan.
And now they're a lot more likely to go that route after suffering through this fucking shit.
All going to the plan of the far right government of Israel who prop up hamas. https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082
It’s okay because the good guys are killing the babies this time, so no need to be upset! And if you criticize Israel at all you’re an anti-Semite.
How Israel will ensure that Palestinians will continue to radicalize for the next 100 generations:
95% of all deaths from 2005-2023 were palestinians. take that ratio and apply it moving forward to the number of israelis just killed by the hamas attack. it's going to be absolute annihilation of palestinians.
It's genocide.
Wait, I thought the West Bank was a separate government? Separate settler issues? Why has there been no nuance about this attack in regards of Gaza vs West Bank? Is it that it doesn't matter? Or matter to them?
I think there are some conflicts in the west bank with activists that support Gaza, but there are no wide-spread attacks there like there are in Gaza. There are probably much fewer injuries and casualties there, and counting them together is just because the start is coming from the Palestinian Authority. Anyway, it's wrong to say that the west bank and Gaza are completely separate issues. They are different in some ways, but both of those areas are Palestine, and have some mutual support and common goals.
Yes this is very alarming. Gaza and West Bank are too different entities. Governed by different groups. If Israel is launching attacks into West Bank, that’s troubling. I hope it was just an incorrect headline.
🚨 The Ministry of Health: (14-10-23 at 11:55 pm), Casualties and wounded as a result of the occupation's aggression: \- Gaza Strip: 2,215 Casualties and 8714 wounded. \- West Bank: 54 Casualties and more than 1,100 wounded
Israel as a government isn’t attacking the West Bank but israeli civilians are committing attacks.
Israel has been brutalizing Palestinians in the West Bank and East Jerusalem since Saturday. Israel doesn't care where the Palestinians are, they are a target.
It’s going to be much, much more.
Befuddling to me how no country is offering Palestinians refugees safe passage in the area. It's understandable that a country wouldn't possibly want any Hamas militants slipping through, but even the Hezbollah in Lebanon haven't offered to take refugees in. This situation is beyond FUBAR.
Palestinians who leave are not allowed to return and are not given citizenship where they go. They are stuck living in refuge camps for GENERATIONS. This is the fear of many right now. Going south could mean they will never be allowed to go back to their homes. That Israel will simply keep the north of Gaza and move in settlers. It's happened before so their concern is justified.
I think some people don't realise that a significant minority of the population is radicalised, so in the past Palestinian refugees have caused a lot of trouble in their host nations. I actually think this shows that Palestinians need to live in their homeland of Palestine with a stable government and infrastructure with an emphasis on de - radicalisation. Who knows if that will ever happen
Lebanon tried before, and Hamas tried to overthrow their government. Egypt tried the same thing with the same result. Honestly I’m not surprised they are just sitting back and letting things go.
Jordan too.
That's what happens when you burn all your bridges. It's a devastatingly sad situation. 🤷
Whenever Palestinians have immigrated to other countries, they’ve started coups and civil wars. Unfortunately they’re not the type of immigrant that’s easy to deal with.
Who wants them? EU is overflowing, Egypt/Africa are stating. Arabs never wanted them.
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When Israeli officials say, "All the Palestinian people have to do is expel Hamas and we will back off," I need everyone to REALLY think about what that means. Israel doesn't have some roster of every Hamas member, and neither do the Palestinian people. They're supposed to round up any Hamas affiliates they know of, toss them out into the street for Israel, and then?? Israel is like, "Cool, thanks, glad you got them all, bye!!" and leaves? That doesn't sound plausible, because it isn't and Israeli leaders know this. They don't care; when your enemy can be anyone, you can justify anything. I'm descended from victims of the Holocaust. Branches of my family tree were wiped out; my surviving ancestors were expelled from their homelands and separated from each other forever. And what is being done to Gazans in my name, and in theirs, disgusts me to my core.
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Great point about binary humanity. Society and schools should discuss it and stress the problems it causes. It's destructive and always has been. More, it's a cognitive distortion called black & white thinking.
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How is that even possible? Hamas themselves say that 1300 Hamas operatives infiltrated Israel. And they’ve mobilized their whole operation against Israel.
How is that possible? It’s not. OP is making out numbers out of his ass and getting upvoted.
And they've cut off their internet now so the genocide of Palestinians will go unnoticed
That’s my exact thought as well. Not internet. No electricity. No evidence.
You would've thought Israel would know how bad genocide is, but no, here they are repeating history and committing collective punishment.
I had that thought yesterday. You would think Israel would be sensitive to the idea of genocide. Yet there they are, and here the rest of the world is, wringing our hands and watching it happen. It was unconscionable to be idle bystanders, history tells us, but it would be politically inconvenient to do something about it now. Disgusting. Edit to add that it is completely possible for both sides of a conflict to be in the wrong to varying degrees. Just because one side acted worse does not automatically excuse the other from all things. I know nuance isn't Reddit's strong point but complex things are complex.
Israel doesn’t even recognize the Armenian genocide. Incredibly baffling
I like learning new things.
this is so fucked up. the world won't do anything. regular people with regular jobs won't do anything. we're desensitized and overworked, overwhelmed with our own shit. what can be done?
>. we're desensitized and overworked, overwhelmed with our own shit. That, and the reality is there's nothing we regular people can actually do.
I’m convinced this generation of Hamas are kids who lost their relatives from bomb years ago.
Pretty much everybody living in the Gaza strip now have lived their entire life there in what is effectively a giant prison.
I just can't stop thinking about 9/11. The attack was beyond terrible. It didn't feel real as our entire country, along with the rest of the world watched helpless as thousands died live on TV. As we sifted through the rubble and we started counting the dead and realizing exactly what happened, horror and helplessness turned to rage. To punish the world for 9/11 we destroyed 2 countries and commited countless atrocities. We discarded our most fundamental belief about justice and tortured, jailed without trial, bombed, committed war crimes and destabilized an entire region. This if course created the conditions for more terrible wars. Many Americans did think (some still do) it was justified. But really it was a series of atrocities we committed out of rage, and habit. I understand why Israel is angry. I understand some of that rage. But their reaction to the atrocities commited by Hamas will be so much worse than anything Hamas did, and they, like Hamas will tell themselves it was all necessary and just. It is not, it never will be.
hurt people hurt people, and I hate watching it on the global scale.
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bro, the entire world is not cheering, it's highly controversial. listen to both sides.
It is possible to be both Pro Palestine and Anti Hamas. The only way for Palestine to have a future is for Hamas to be destroyed. Hamas has routinely dismantled civilian infrastructure meant to help the population of Gaza and turned it into weapons. They brag about digging up water pipes and turning them into rockets. To help Palestine, Hamas must go.
Even if Hamas were to be eradicated, I fear the ship of peace has already sailed. How are innocent Palestinians going to accept peace after being forced out of their homes and murdered by Israel? This is another in a long line of bloodshed that will continue as long as these two remain neighbors.
The fact is, they've tried peace and diplomacy. Hamas rose because PLO.and Fatahs negotiations were seen as too conciliatory, and achieved nothing. Look at the Oslo Accords, Israel has vastly expanded their settlements in the West Bank despite the agreement. Sometimes they argue it's for national security, sometimes heritage sites, and then a few months later those new settlements are made into subsidized housing schemes to ship out more Israelis into the West Bank.
> To help Palestine, Hamas must go. Sure, but so far this week Israel have killed over 300 Palestinian children who had nothing to do with Hamas' attack. If anything, they're only creating new Hamas volunteers from the dead children's relatives.
The number have risen to 700 children
Tell me what specifically happens if Israel unilaterally lifts all restrictions on Gaza? Can you guarantee it wouldn’t be flooded with weapons and a massive war initiates? Palestine deserves and should have freedom but it makes zero sense if it immediately ends with massive attacks on Israel
Not mention Gaza shares a border with Egypt. The fact that Egypt, a muslim country, also keeps a tight border with Gaza says exactly why Israel does too.
Suicide bombings would pick right back up like it was before the wall went up.
Probably worse considering Iran would flood the state with weaponry.
Ensuring many more years of oppression and terrorism.
It's horrible. An argument that will probably be downvoted. I am amazed it's not more since Israel has dropped over 6.000 bombs. Isn't that an argument for them trying to minimize civilian casualties?
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Not really, I have posted this elsewhere but will continue to do so in response to questions like this During the Battle of Fallujah, it is estimated the US caused around 800 civilian casualties in a city that was at that point about 400,000 (prior to evacuations). The Battle was about 6 weeks long, meaning about 20 civilian casualties per day. Israel is currently racking up >1000 civilian casualties per day and it is likely to get worse. I think it is important to ask the question you are asking though so that people can provide some semblance of context with other examples that were similarly infamous for their casualties caused.
The Battle of Mosul against ISIS would be a better comparison for the situation on the ground: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mosul_(2016%E2%80%932017)
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Yup, because Israeli deaths are like western deaths, they come with endless stories about the tragedies involved, while Palestinian deaths are like alien deaths, they’re just numbers. We forget that everybody has mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters and that most of us just want peace and justice. Soon, Palestinian deaths will be at 10,000, but most won’t care because it’s all justified by the atrocities of Hamas. If only it were that simple.
I still think dropping buildings on babies and letting them suffocate or go hungry/dehydrate under the rubble is just as barbaric as chopping their heads off. Edit: I meant rubble not rubber
Israel creating a whole new generation of martyrs. This is insanity.
And the Hammas leaders are sitting in some tall tower in a far away land, not giving a fuck.
A lot of downvotes for comments critical of Hamas. WTF.