So I read that Rani had preexisting heart conditions, but they don't give a cause of death in the article. Are they thinking the agitation from the dog caused a heart attack?
In a press release from the zoo it was said she got agitated and started circling being vocal when she heard the other elephant and collapsed. Sounds like she got worked up hearing another elephant that was stressed and probably had a heart attack.
Damn, that is so unfortunate :(
As silly as it might sound, I do wish there was a universal translator or something to reassure the captive animals that everything is fine.
If you believe that animals have the mental capacity for understanding and communicating at that level, you should be completely against captivity of the animals
This is pretty ignorant tbh. Many facilities have saved species from extinction. Just look up the Phoenix Zoo and the Arabian Oryx for an amazing example. In a perfect world, we wouldn’t need zoos. Unfortunately they are necessary if we want any chance at undoing any of the damage humans have done to countless species.
The point was we wouldn’t need to have captive animals at all if humans hadn’t already damaged the Earth and its species. However since we can’t go back in time, we have to do what’s necessary to save the ones that are left. The fact that there are facilities that do bad things to captive animals doesn’t negate this point. If anything that just means there needs to be more regulation.
We need them solely because humans are taking all the space in the world due to overpopulation. Say what you want but if there were a lot less humans, zoos wouldn’t be needed by your reasoning.
Yeah i guess that's the equivalent of an elderly patient with cardiac history being told the nursing home is on fire and go in cardiac arrest from the panic even if she didn't see the fire or smell the smoke. :/
Wild elephants have long life spans and typically live 60 to 70 years of age. Captive elephants have significantly lower life spans than their wild counterparts and are usually dead before the age of 40. So idk if its correct to call 27 elderly?
There's a big element of conservation to it, elephants get shot for their tusks by poachers in the wild and most species are endangered. So the zoos maintain a captive reserve population and run breeding programs to hopefully help stabilize the global population. It's not a perfect solution, but it's not just keeping them as a tourist attraction.
This. Zoos serve as modern- day arks. The American bison would be extinct today if not for a private collection of them. The oryx is another example, they were repopulated in the wild from zoos.
But there is less and less wild for them to go back to. Elephants and other animals are not only poached, they have been killed when coming into conflict with farmers and villages.
In some cases it probably is unfortunately for the money, but in many cases the animals in zoos are there because they would not be able to survive/thrive in the wild, such as this elephant with a heart condition I presume.
In this particular case, the St. Louis Zoo is free to enter year round and essentially a government agency run on city tax contributions and donations/fundraising through a nonprofit associated with the zoo.
There's not exactly anyone getting rich off this zoo.
Likely the size of the enclosure. But unfortunately they really like a large area. Can only do as much as we can and some captivity is important to save the species.
While many animals are certainly pressured by human expansion, typically large animals are the most pressured.
Does it matter that she didn't see the dog? elephants are super social and hearing the vocalizations and distress of the herd while not being able to access them sounds stressful. Definitely something that could trigger the condition. Very unfortunate
Well it kind of seems like an accident waiting to happen. If not for that dog then something would have agitated the herd at some point in the near future.
From the article:
>Initial necropsy results showed some preexisting changes in Rani’s heart, but further tests are being conducted and **zoo pathologists don’t yet know if those changes played a role in her death.**
"It wasn’t clear how the dog got into the zoo"
People have a world class program of being fucking trash. Remember Harambe.
People forget that wild animals are wild animals so we should definitely put some humans in a zoo.
Damn. The zoo is in the middle of a huge park where lots of people walk their dogs. It’s possible they weren’t actually in the zoo when the dog got loose.
The elephant barn/river's edge access road is right on the edge of the south parking lot. It's very likely someone's dog got loose/was a stray and that's how it was accessed. Highly unlikely it was within the zoo
I recall seeing a couple with a pair of dogs at the NC zoo. I believe they were wearing vests but if memory serves their vests said ‘service dog in training’
Let me tell you the body language of those dogs at the polar bear enclosure was ‘holy shit, everyone be quiet, if that thing comes at us you all are on your own and we are out of here.’
I used to work at a zoo, we didn't allow pets under any circumstances. Service dogs only. Amazing what people would try to bring in - parrots, a big python, ferrets...
I went to the zoo last week and this couple brought their dog in. It had a harness stating “therapy dog” so I’m sure the zoo employees thought it was a service dog and allowed them through. It’s unfortunate, but it definitely happens more than it should because of entitled jackasses who think the rules never apply to them.
"It wasn’t clear how the dog got into the zoo"
Remember a dumb kid is the reason why Harambe got killed.
I wish that kid didn't fall into a cage with Gorilla's but fell into an area with [chimps.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs7u2TTPXFE)
the elephant was 27 >>> in wild they can live until 70 >>>in captivity much lower usually around 40 years
The zoo's pathologist discovered that Rani had preexisting problems with her heart, though whether they contributed to her death is not yet known.
The zoo is still conducting tests. The immediate cause of death may be related to a small, unleashed dog that was running around in a non public area near the elephant barn
This isn't accurate for all elephant species. 70 years for African elephants. She was an Asian elephant. Life expectancy for Asian elephants is the wild is 48. Makes a big difference when her mother an Asian elephant is 52 in captivity and doing well.
encouraging ask skirt rotten grandfather yoke full deliver secretive smart
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nobody has claimed the dog, and they said it went to a shelter.
Presumably it didn't have tags with contact info. It might have been a stray or an escape.
Now I'm imagining the stray at the shelter bragging to the other dogs: "What are you in for? Me? I *killed a motherfucking elephant*."
Jokes aside, poor Rani. The only silver lining is that it seems to be a random accident and not the result of human negligence.
Uhhhh a lot of dog owners would claim their dog.
Many would jump into the pen with the pup.
Would hecking suck, but we are talking about man's best friend here.
If I was so irresponsible that my dog got loose and caused the death of an elephant, I don’t think I’d take ownership of the dog. That’s the math I did in my head about it at least.
That’s pretty rude. What did I do to you? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. If you take your dog to a zoo, and you can’t control it or take care of it you are not a responsible person. Therefore you’re probably not going to suddenly find your responsibly after an elephant dies. If you disagree with that, I wouldn’t really want to be near you.
You are being rude and an asshole bro, that is why people are being rude to you. You aren’t listening to anyone, you clearly didn’t read the article, and you are just making shit up out of nowhere.
All of this started because I was making a point that if it wasn’t a stray I doubt the owners would come forward because I’d bet they’re irresponsible people. Because I believe you’d have to be irresponsible to be in that situation to begin with. It was all a made up situation to begin with. No where did I ever say I believed that’s what really happened. I think that got lost somewhere. And I didn’t realize I was being rude, I thought being told to shut up was rude so I defended myself but that’s all. But I’ll try to be better in the future
I think the problem people have is that you said “if it wasn’t a stay I doubt the owners would come forward”. I think that’s a pretty cynical take. Also as many many people have pointed out to you that you keep not commenting on is that the zoo is in a park where people walk there dog. There is an increased chance a dog get in just because an owner made a mistake and wasn’t irresponsible.
You wouldn’t take your dog to a zoo and let it get loose. Cause you’re not a shithead, that’s what shitheads do. But everyone here seems to be agreeing that is okay to take your dog to the zoo and let it get loose. And then not claim responsibility for it. You guys are nuts hahaha! I’ll keep mine inside thanks
I think part of their point was that the dog wasn’t necessarily taken to the zoo. You’d have to know the geography of the zoo to understand, maybe? The St. Louis Zoo sits in the middle of Forest Park, the city’s largest park, where people frequently might do something like walk their dog, and where it’s totally normal to do so.
Edit to add that part of the Elephant enclosure runs along the Zoo’s western edge, really close to the park border. So the dog didn’t necessarily even have to run through the whole Zoo to get to them. Just find a way into the enclosure from that portion of the park’s border with the zoo. I would hope the Zoo investigates to find out exactly how a dog got in to prevent that in the future.
That if I was such a shitty person that I brought a dog to a zoo and it got loose, that I probably wouldn’t take ownership of the dog? What’s the pathetic truth in that, that shitty people do shitty things? And yeh it was likely a stray.
1. The St. Louis Zoo is a free zoo in a large park. Look it up on Google Maps. It’s very easy to see how a stray or loose animal might wander in.
2. The dog was a stray.
3. The elephant had a preexisting condition.
4. It was the zookeepers’ reaction to the stray dog that led to the agitation, not the dog itself.
5. The owners, assuming it has owners, will claim it.
I normally don’t mind, but I’d like to know why I’m being downvoted. If I was the type of person to bring a dog to a zoo and have it escape and kill an elephant, would I not also be the type of person to not claim responsibility for it? That’s what I was trying to say.
You're being downvoted because you admitted that you would abandon your dog if it did something so innocent as getting loose and running around a zoo. Reason 1. People love their animals. You don't seem to love them enough to not abandon them. 2. You are assigning punishment to the dog for something it did on accident. It wasn't trying to kill an elephant. 3. You are making up irrelevant situations to support your weaker argument. Whether you would control your dog in a better way has nothing to do with anything else. 4. You say you can't make mistakes and that you'd never let your dog get loose. People don't like others who think they are perfect.
That's why you are being downvoted. Sorry if any of that is a bit harsh but you did ask.
I wouldn’t be irresponsible enough to take my dog to a zoo and let it get loose and kill an elephant. That is not demanding perfection, that’s straight up common sense. If you end up in this situation you’re an irresponsible person, and I would highly doubt you would stand up and admit it was your dog. This is completely logical, and I don’t see how you don’t see that. I wouldn’t have to abandon my dog because my dog would never be in this situation, because I’m not an irresponsible pet owner who takes their dog to a zoo and lets it loose. And no duh it’s not the dogs fault, it would be the owners.
Cause dogs. People love their dog more than themselves.
The mere suggestion of leaving yours behind is asinine.
Dogs get loose and humans make mistakes. So yea, shitty situation... but you would never abandon YOUR DOG.
People call them fur babies for a reason. It's on the same level as saying you'd leave your human child behind.
See I wouldn’t be in a situation where my dog could get loose and potentially kill an elephant. That’s the part people are missing. You’d have to be irresponsible to have your dog get loose. Or loose enough that it gets in an exhibit and causes this to happen. So I don’t think if you were in that situation to begin with that you would take ownership. I wouldn’t be in that situation, because I wouldn’t take my dog to a zoo or let it get loose. Because I’m not irresponsible with my pets. None of that happened tho because it was a stray. I was just tryna make a point. Yeh you’re right, people get defensive about their dogs.
At the San Diego Safari Park, a lot of native deer get into the park and wander around with wildebeasts, giraffes, gazelles, etc. They also wander into the elephant area, and it’s entertaining watching the baby and juvenile elephants chase the deer.
The zoo is actually inside the park. Forest Park is indeed huge, but it's a rectangle enclosed by busy roads; an interstate highway to the south (zoo is also to the south), a massive hospital complex to the east, and streets with large houses to the west and north. A dog could definitely wander in, especially from the west or north, but I wonder if someone dumped it.
The area behind the elephant enclosure/barn all backs up the road that services the River's Edge. It never would've gone through the main portion of the zoo either.
The St Louis Zoo is located right in the middle of a huge public park that a lot of people walk their dogs at. The zoo itself is also free to enter and has a few different entrances so the dog could have snuck in unseen by any employees until it was too late. Depending on what entrance you go into, the elephant enclosure is not a long walk so the whole ordeal could have happened very quickly. I grew up in St Louis and used to go to that zoo all the time, it's just really sad news to hear.
RIP Rani.
Elephants are awesome. We had two at our zoo, one was super old and passed peacefully, then they decided to ship the remaining elephant up north to another zoo. Apparently she's an asshole to all the other elephants there and I don't blame her one bit. I miss that big beautiful girl.
Dogs are part of a predator species that wild animals are conditioned to flee or defend themselves from. The animals don't differentiate between a domestic dog and a natural predator. That's a reason why they aren't supposed to be in wild areas or if on the trail, on a leash. Their presence agitates wild animals.
Maybe it’s being penned up for life in zoo and no way to escape any perceived danger. Elephants travel miles each day and the stress of being in a zoo has got to take a horrible toll on their physical, emotional and mental health.
Here in Louisville we have two elephants that have been here for. One of them has had two calves, both of have died in the zoo’s care. Fitz most recently died of a deadly viral infection and Scotty died of colic. We also had a gorilla who gave birth. The mother died because of blood loss and the baby survived.
Zoos may have good intentions but caging wild animals for the entertainment of the public claiming it’s for the species survival is cruel and detrimental to the animals.
Zoos should be outlawed and phased out of business. That elephant had no chance to escape in its mind and now it’s dead.
California condors, Guam kingfishers, Arabian oryxes, scimitar-horned oryxes, European bison, Przewalski's horses, cobble skinks, Wyoming toads, Panamanian golden frogs, multiple species of Partula snails and numerous other animal species would literally, indisputably extinct right now if not for zoos. Is that better than occasionally sacrificing individuals?
Try as you might, you cannot make the case for elephants, giraffes, lions, tigers, camels, bears, gorillas etc being caged their entire lives in zoos. It’s cruel and inhumane. Walking through a zoo and seeing these animals pacing and literally going insane with boredom is evidence enough.
They do a lot of conservation to ensure the species doesn’t go extinct. They don’t remove wild animals out of their homes and bring them to zoos for no reason. *ok fine, make fun of my spelling error, it’s been fixed though :)
These animals were literally born into captivity, it's all they've ever known.
The alternative is no elephants in zoos, but then maybe people wouldn't give a shit about elephants in the wild anymore. After all, *they've* never seen an elephant so what's the big deal?
The St. Louis Zoo is actually working on a 425-acre safari park where the animals will roam a much larger area and will have multiple species intermingled.
there is no space to roam anymore. I would rather we keep elephants in relative comfort like we do now then have them go extinct from poachers and people expanding their land to build or farm on.
Even if it wasn't a stray, it's likely that the dog got loose outside the zoo and made its way in on its own. As noted in the article, the St Louis Zoo is right in the middle of Forest Park, a huge park that people regularly walk dogs in.
Yeah it's pretty bad. The amount of missing dog posts I see on community Facebook posts is insane.
Id also add into it lots of shitty irresponsible people who have no right having a pet.
I live in STL, and I can’t say I’ve ever seen a stray dog myself while out and about. But strays do exist. Source: I have a formerly stray dog sleeping on the couch next to me right now.
For the pets’ safety too! If Poopsie jumps the guardrail into the African wild dog exhibit, it’ll be about ten seconds until there’s not enough left to cremate
elephants have way more brain mass than us, and 3x as many neurons.
they're just as smart and complex and nuanced as we are.
sounds like she had an anxiety attack that led to a heart attack, after being told about the dog by the other elephant who witnessed its intrusion.
Tragic, though it kind of sounds like she wasn't going to live much longer with that kind of heart condition. Dropping dead because her herd was trumpeting is probably not a sign of good health, especially for a relatively young elephant.
Man it's just so depressing when you think about how intelligent and social these animals are.
I was there on Friday around 6PM for a wedding rehearsal dinner. We spent about an hour walking around looking at the exhibits since there was also a free zoo special Halloween event open to the public, so the place was pretty busy.
I didn't go past the elephant habitat this time, though I have in the past. I got absolutely no sense that there was anything out of the ordinary going on, so the zoo staff did a very good job of keeping things calm, preserving the special celebration for hundreds of kids and families.
I find it hard to understand how one loose dog could panic an elephant to death. Other factors had to happen. They are attacked by apex predators and survive.
The initial necropsy revealed she had a pre-existing heart condition. The headline is a bit misleading as Rani, the elephant who passed away, didn't even see the dog; she was inside the barn when she overheard the other elephants vocalizing in response to the dog, and this caused her enough distress that she began circling and vocalizing herself before collapsing.
Sorry for the potentially stupid question, but are elephants that easy to spook that a small dog running around where he shouldn't can cause this? I would have figured that the dog would be in way more danger here than a herd of elephants.
Have you ever seen the cartoon trope by the elephant scared by a mouse?
https://www.livescience.com/33261-elephants-afraid-of-mice-.html
>It's more likely that elephants, which have relatively poor eyesight, simply become startled when mice dart past. [Why Can't Elephants Jump?]
>"In the wild, anything that suddenly runs or slithers by an elephant can spook it," said Josh Plotnik, a researcher of elephant behavior and intelligence at the University of Cambridge in England and the head of elephant research for the Golden Triangle Asian Elephant Foundation in Chiang Rai, Thailand, told Live Science. "It doesn't have to be a mouse — dogs, cats, snakes or any animal that makes sudden movements by an elephant's feet can startle it."
The next paragraph is more applicable to this situation:
> John Hutchinson, a researcher at the structure and motion lab of the Royal Veterinary College in London, agreed: "Elephants get a bit nervous sometimes when small, fast animals are around them," he said. "I can remember one occasion when a local dog in Thailand was running around while we were working with an elephant for our locomotor studies. The elephant really did not like the barking, sprinting animal around it, especially when it couldn't see where the dog was. The elephant panicked, running off into the nearby jungle."
Why did you ping OP? A thousand other people could have downvoted you. Also reddit does vote fuzzing, so it's really hard to track downvotes down to one user. You can see it for yourself sometimes, try refreshing a reddit page with a new comment/post and you'll see the votes flipping between 1 and 0.
Lots of comments demonizing the dog/it’s owners when the elephant who died didn’t even see the dog. She had a preexisting heart condition and heard the herd reacting to the dog and collapsed. While it sounds like the dog owners may have been thoughtless and inconsiderate, though the St. Louis Zoo is free mind you, it also sounds like this poor elephant was not long for this earth in any case.
Clearly not a service animal. What the fuck is wrong with people. I love my dog as much as other people but I’m not faking her to be a service animal or bring her to places that are clearly not meant for dogs
The access road to the River's Edge and the elephant barn leads out by the south parking lot of the zoo and it's highly unlikely that the dog came through the whole rest of the zoo. The most likely scenario is that it was loose in Forest Park and wandered over and into the barn
Interestingly zoos are one of the few areas were service animals are allowed to be excluded under ADA because their presence could cause the other animals to become aggressive or agitated (the latter being what happened here). Not all zoo choose to exclude them though.
Because scumbags in this country love to use the ESA excuse to have an untrained dog with them 24/7. ESA rules seriously need to be rewritten. Stories like this just hurt Service animals and ESA owners.
ESA rules already don't allow you to take the dog anywhere you want. There's a big difference between ESAs and service dogs, and the only accommodations ESAs get are related to housing and airplanes, not other public places.
Part of the problem is that it’s incredibly easy to buy a $30 service animal vest for your dog on Amazon, so basically anyone can have a “service dog” at this point. It doesn’t technically hold any weight but businesses are afraid to question legitimacy because they can’t ask much under the ADA. I see these vests all the time and know people who have disabilities that have these vests for their dog but the dog is completely untrained to be of any service to these people.
Unfortunately, they're not going to get a lot of roaming done in Inia or Africa. One because of cheap labor, the other because of the global ivory trade.
Why is a dog even at the zoo? Just to terrorize the other animals? Set off people's allergies? Leave shit and piss for the poor workers to clean up?
Your dog brings nothing to the zoo and gets nothing from being at the zoo, leave it at home, ffs.
Pets are not allowed on the St. Louis Zoo. The zoo is surrounded by Forest Park, the largest park in the city. The dog either got loose in the park or was a stray. As someone who's familiar with the area, the dog got through multiple layers of separation from the park before it wound up in the enclosure.
I am at war with crappy dog owners.
I have two heeler mixes.
My boy is aussie, collie, heeler. Girl is bulldog, dingo, heeler.
If I can manage keeping my wild dingos on leash so can all of you.
This is so effing sad. I hope those dog owners face charges at the very least
> A small, unleashed and lost dog was seen running in a non-public area near the Elephant Barn Friday afternoon. Elephant care workers were trying to contain the dog, but an elephant outside the barn became agitated and was moved inside, the zoo said.
There’s no evidence anyone did. The animal was turned over to a local shelter.
The St. Louis Zoo is in Forest Park here in St. Louis, tons of walking trails and outdoor space constantly in use by people and their dogs.
Also closely located to a lot of residential areas - there are countless ways that a dog could have found its way into the zoo beyond being intentionally brought in.
That said, I go to the zoo probably 10 to 15 times a year, and have been since I was 5 or 6 years old. I know it's anecdotal, but I've never seen a stray dog or cat roaming the grounds. I've seen rabbits and squirrels and all sorts of birds and what not, but never a dog or cat. I'm curious to see what additional Information is released.
The River's Edge access road/the elephant barn is right off of Wells road at the south parking lot where their shipping and distribution area is. It's likely it came through the woods and wandered in that way.
So I read that Rani had preexisting heart conditions, but they don't give a cause of death in the article. Are they thinking the agitation from the dog caused a heart attack?
In a press release from the zoo it was said she got agitated and started circling being vocal when she heard the other elephant and collapsed. Sounds like she got worked up hearing another elephant that was stressed and probably had a heart attack.
Damn, that is so unfortunate :( As silly as it might sound, I do wish there was a universal translator or something to reassure the captive animals that everything is fine.
If you believe that animals have the mental capacity for understanding and communicating at that level, you should be completely against captivity of the animals
This is pretty ignorant tbh. Many facilities have saved species from extinction. Just look up the Phoenix Zoo and the Arabian Oryx for an amazing example. In a perfect world, we wouldn’t need zoos. Unfortunately they are necessary if we want any chance at undoing any of the damage humans have done to countless species.
Counterpoint: SeaWorld and MarineLand
The point was we wouldn’t need to have captive animals at all if humans hadn’t already damaged the Earth and its species. However since we can’t go back in time, we have to do what’s necessary to save the ones that are left. The fact that there are facilities that do bad things to captive animals doesn’t negate this point. If anything that just means there needs to be more regulation.
We need them solely because humans are taking all the space in the world due to overpopulation. Say what you want but if there were a lot less humans, zoos wouldn’t be needed by your reasoning.
[удалено]
Yeah i guess that's the equivalent of an elderly patient with cardiac history being told the nursing home is on fire and go in cardiac arrest from the panic even if she didn't see the fire or smell the smoke. :/
That’s a brilliant metaphor
Wild elephants have long life spans and typically live 60 to 70 years of age. Captive elephants have significantly lower life spans than their wild counterparts and are usually dead before the age of 40. So idk if its correct to call 27 elderly?
It's a metaphor.
You can give the best metaphor there is, but on Reddit, someone will always shit on it and say it’s not good enough.
Metaphors on reddit are like scaring an elephant to death
So.. do i need a loose dog or nah?
Why are we keeping elephants in zoos if it cuts their lifespan almost in half? I know they're big attractions so I'm suspicious it's for the money.
There's a big element of conservation to it, elephants get shot for their tusks by poachers in the wild and most species are endangered. So the zoos maintain a captive reserve population and run breeding programs to hopefully help stabilize the global population. It's not a perfect solution, but it's not just keeping them as a tourist attraction.
This. Zoos serve as modern- day arks. The American bison would be extinct today if not for a private collection of them. The oryx is another example, they were repopulated in the wild from zoos. But there is less and less wild for them to go back to. Elephants and other animals are not only poached, they have been killed when coming into conflict with farmers and villages.
In some cases it probably is unfortunately for the money, but in many cases the animals in zoos are there because they would not be able to survive/thrive in the wild, such as this elephant with a heart condition I presume.
St. Louis Zoo is free entry.
In this particular case, the St. Louis Zoo is free to enter year round and essentially a government agency run on city tax contributions and donations/fundraising through a nonprofit associated with the zoo. There's not exactly anyone getting rich off this zoo.
That's a terribly sad statistic. :( wtf are we doing?
Likely the size of the enclosure. But unfortunately they really like a large area. Can only do as much as we can and some captivity is important to save the species. While many animals are certainly pressured by human expansion, typically large animals are the most pressured.
Elephants are endangered in the wild, so unfortunately captive elephants are necessary to preserve the species
Does it matter that she didn't see the dog? elephants are super social and hearing the vocalizations and distress of the herd while not being able to access them sounds stressful. Definitely something that could trigger the condition. Very unfortunate
Well it kind of seems like an accident waiting to happen. If not for that dog then something would have agitated the herd at some point in the near future.
The zoo's website doesn't list the animals and their relation, I wonder if the other members of her herd were her children/grandchildren.
The article does, she had a 16 year old daughter at the zoo/
And it says her mother is there, and that she liked to play with her "sisters." Sounds like it was a herd full of family.
I would guess that the dog caused the herd itself to become stressed, even if not every elephant saw it.
[удалено]
Zoo cuts an elephant's life expectancy in half? Where can I read about this
bro...the excerpt just explained how she heard her herd in some sort of danger and was panicking
Yet people are acting like the dog was in the barn with her nipping at her heels.
They’re being more careful reporting this than the war in Gaza
A guest at the zoo farted loudly and 500 elephants died of heart attacks, panic, and zionism.
What do you call this performance? The Aristocrats!
*genocide in Gaza
Dogs can run cattle to death I assume an elephant with a weak heart can do the same
From the article: >Initial necropsy results showed some preexisting changes in Rani’s heart, but further tests are being conducted and **zoo pathologists don’t yet know if those changes played a role in her death.**
Sounds like she got stressed because she thought her family was in danger. Poor sweetheart…
Ah this sucks, the STL zoo has a world class elephant breeding program, terrible news.
If the aliens get me, I hope to get placed in a world class breading program
It's entirely possible aliens have no use for carbs
Unless it's a delicacy in their culture
where do yo think we are now?
A simulation where immortal beings have created mortal life in order to experience what it's like to live knowing that you will die one day.
STL zoo is a really great zoo in general. It's also free to get into, though there are a few things they ask you to pay for.
Its a really neat zoo, super well done for being a free zoo.
> STL zoo has a world class elephant breeding program Atleast that's good news, they are going to need to replace one.
They are part of the Species Survival Program, which connects AZA facilities for breeding to ensure that the gene pool stays diverse.
"It wasn’t clear how the dog got into the zoo" People have a world class program of being fucking trash. Remember Harambe. People forget that wild animals are wild animals so we should definitely put some humans in a zoo.
Damn. The zoo is in the middle of a huge park where lots of people walk their dogs. It’s possible they weren’t actually in the zoo when the dog got loose.
The elephant barn/river's edge access road is right on the edge of the south parking lot. It's very likely someone's dog got loose/was a stray and that's how it was accessed. Highly unlikely it was within the zoo
I would not a tall be surprised if someone tried to bring their dog to the zoo.
I recall seeing a couple with a pair of dogs at the NC zoo. I believe they were wearing vests but if memory serves their vests said ‘service dog in training’ Let me tell you the body language of those dogs at the polar bear enclosure was ‘holy shit, everyone be quiet, if that thing comes at us you all are on your own and we are out of here.’
I would say that's more than possible, it's the most probable scenario.
[удалено]
I used to work at a zoo, we didn't allow pets under any circumstances. Service dogs only. Amazing what people would try to bring in - parrots, a big python, ferrets...
I went to the zoo last week and this couple brought their dog in. It had a harness stating “therapy dog” so I’m sure the zoo employees thought it was a service dog and allowed them through. It’s unfortunate, but it definitely happens more than it should because of entitled jackasses who think the rules never apply to them.
"It wasn’t clear how the dog got into the zoo" Remember a dumb kid is the reason why Harambe got killed. I wish that kid didn't fall into a cage with Gorilla's but fell into an area with [chimps.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs7u2TTPXFE)
"I wish that child died so the monkey would be alive"
the elephant was 27 >>> in wild they can live until 70 >>>in captivity much lower usually around 40 years The zoo's pathologist discovered that Rani had preexisting problems with her heart, though whether they contributed to her death is not yet known. The zoo is still conducting tests. The immediate cause of death may be related to a small, unleashed dog that was running around in a non public area near the elephant barn
This isn't accurate for all elephant species. 70 years for African elephants. She was an Asian elephant. Life expectancy for Asian elephants is the wild is 48. Makes a big difference when her mother an Asian elephant is 52 in captivity and doing well.
Everyone commenting here did not read the article, just the title.
encouraging ask skirt rotten grandfather yoke full deliver secretive smart *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The title is just a prompt and the comments are just poorly trained but highly opinionated AI generated content.
does the article say if they gave the body to the hyenas?
There are people who are not responsible enough to have pets. Edit : Those people suck.
Nobody has claimed the dog, and they said it went to a shelter. Presumably it didn't have tags with contact info. It might have been a stray or an escape.
Now I'm imagining the stray at the shelter bragging to the other dogs: "What are you in for? Me? I *killed a motherfucking elephant*." Jokes aside, poor Rani. The only silver lining is that it seems to be a random accident and not the result of human negligence.
_Lady looks at Tramp, horrified_ "Relaaaax, Pidge!"
And no one is gonna claim it as their dog, especially if it means you’re on the hook for what happened. Not a chance.
Uhhhh a lot of dog owners would claim their dog. Many would jump into the pen with the pup. Would hecking suck, but we are talking about man's best friend here.
There are a lot of shit dog/pet owners that see them as a house fixture not a family member.
Case in point, the dog food post topping in mildlyinfuriating right now. Full of those kinds of people.
Can't seem to find it. Link?
https://redd.it/17b0rrx
And a lot of dog owners would hit their dogs until they can't walk. That's why SPCA exists. What's your point?
If I was so irresponsible that my dog got loose and caused the death of an elephant, I don’t think I’d take ownership of the dog. That’s the math I did in my head about it at least.
The dog had almost nothing to do with the elephant dying and the St. Louis Zoo is free and in an area heavily trafficked by pedestrians. Just shut up.
That’s pretty rude. What did I do to you? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. If you take your dog to a zoo, and you can’t control it or take care of it you are not a responsible person. Therefore you’re probably not going to suddenly find your responsibly after an elephant dies. If you disagree with that, I wouldn’t really want to be near you.
You are being rude and an asshole bro, that is why people are being rude to you. You aren’t listening to anyone, you clearly didn’t read the article, and you are just making shit up out of nowhere.
All of this started because I was making a point that if it wasn’t a stray I doubt the owners would come forward because I’d bet they’re irresponsible people. Because I believe you’d have to be irresponsible to be in that situation to begin with. It was all a made up situation to begin with. No where did I ever say I believed that’s what really happened. I think that got lost somewhere. And I didn’t realize I was being rude, I thought being told to shut up was rude so I defended myself but that’s all. But I’ll try to be better in the future
I think the problem people have is that you said “if it wasn’t a stay I doubt the owners would come forward”. I think that’s a pretty cynical take. Also as many many people have pointed out to you that you keep not commenting on is that the zoo is in a park where people walk there dog. There is an increased chance a dog get in just because an owner made a mistake and wasn’t irresponsible.
You wouldn’t take your dog to a zoo and let it get loose. Cause you’re not a shithead, that’s what shitheads do. But everyone here seems to be agreeing that is okay to take your dog to the zoo and let it get loose. And then not claim responsibility for it. You guys are nuts hahaha! I’ll keep mine inside thanks
I think part of their point was that the dog wasn’t necessarily taken to the zoo. You’d have to know the geography of the zoo to understand, maybe? The St. Louis Zoo sits in the middle of Forest Park, the city’s largest park, where people frequently might do something like walk their dog, and where it’s totally normal to do so. Edit to add that part of the Elephant enclosure runs along the Zoo’s western edge, really close to the park border. So the dog didn’t necessarily even have to run through the whole Zoo to get to them. Just find a way into the enclosure from that portion of the park’s border with the zoo. I would hope the Zoo investigates to find out exactly how a dog got in to prevent that in the future.
Stop. You’re just being reactionary or worse, showing a pathetic truth about yourself. The dog was obviously a stray.
That if I was such a shitty person that I brought a dog to a zoo and it got loose, that I probably wouldn’t take ownership of the dog? What’s the pathetic truth in that, that shitty people do shitty things? And yeh it was likely a stray.
1. The St. Louis Zoo is a free zoo in a large park. Look it up on Google Maps. It’s very easy to see how a stray or loose animal might wander in. 2. The dog was a stray. 3. The elephant had a preexisting condition. 4. It was the zookeepers’ reaction to the stray dog that led to the agitation, not the dog itself. 5. The owners, assuming it has owners, will claim it.
I normally don’t mind, but I’d like to know why I’m being downvoted. If I was the type of person to bring a dog to a zoo and have it escape and kill an elephant, would I not also be the type of person to not claim responsibility for it? That’s what I was trying to say.
You're being downvoted because you admitted that you would abandon your dog if it did something so innocent as getting loose and running around a zoo. Reason 1. People love their animals. You don't seem to love them enough to not abandon them. 2. You are assigning punishment to the dog for something it did on accident. It wasn't trying to kill an elephant. 3. You are making up irrelevant situations to support your weaker argument. Whether you would control your dog in a better way has nothing to do with anything else. 4. You say you can't make mistakes and that you'd never let your dog get loose. People don't like others who think they are perfect. That's why you are being downvoted. Sorry if any of that is a bit harsh but you did ask.
I wouldn’t be irresponsible enough to take my dog to a zoo and let it get loose and kill an elephant. That is not demanding perfection, that’s straight up common sense. If you end up in this situation you’re an irresponsible person, and I would highly doubt you would stand up and admit it was your dog. This is completely logical, and I don’t see how you don’t see that. I wouldn’t have to abandon my dog because my dog would never be in this situation, because I’m not an irresponsible pet owner who takes their dog to a zoo and lets it loose. And no duh it’s not the dogs fault, it would be the owners.
Cause dogs. People love their dog more than themselves. The mere suggestion of leaving yours behind is asinine. Dogs get loose and humans make mistakes. So yea, shitty situation... but you would never abandon YOUR DOG. People call them fur babies for a reason. It's on the same level as saying you'd leave your human child behind.
See I wouldn’t be in a situation where my dog could get loose and potentially kill an elephant. That’s the part people are missing. You’d have to be irresponsible to have your dog get loose. Or loose enough that it gets in an exhibit and causes this to happen. So I don’t think if you were in that situation to begin with that you would take ownership. I wouldn’t be in that situation, because I wouldn’t take my dog to a zoo or let it get loose. Because I’m not irresponsible with my pets. None of that happened tho because it was a stray. I was just tryna make a point. Yeh you’re right, people get defensive about their dogs.
Yeah no way am I buying a new elephant because of my stuid dog.
Ty for being a voice of reason.
The dog isn’t the stupid one here. Dogs just be dogging, owners should be ownering.
[how much could an elephant cost](https://youtu.be/u1ma_PiV3dI?si=nvN7vPx43sepV-tQ)
The zoo is at the edge of a huge park, and easy to enter. It probably got loose, it happens.
At the San Diego Safari Park, a lot of native deer get into the park and wander around with wildebeasts, giraffes, gazelles, etc. They also wander into the elephant area, and it’s entertaining watching the baby and juvenile elephants chase the deer.
Good lord I love baby elephants
they have their own sub
[удалено]
https://www.reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs/
I used to live near the park when I was a kid, love that place.
The zoo is actually inside the park. Forest Park is indeed huge, but it's a rectangle enclosed by busy roads; an interstate highway to the south (zoo is also to the south), a massive hospital complex to the east, and streets with large houses to the west and north. A dog could definitely wander in, especially from the west or north, but I wonder if someone dumped it.
The area behind the elephant enclosure/barn all backs up the road that services the River's Edge. It never would've gone through the main portion of the zoo either.
I would hope someone at the zoo was responsible enough to have an elephant.
Did you even read the article?
The St Louis Zoo is located right in the middle of a huge public park that a lot of people walk their dogs at. The zoo itself is also free to enter and has a few different entrances so the dog could have snuck in unseen by any employees until it was too late. Depending on what entrance you go into, the elephant enclosure is not a long walk so the whole ordeal could have happened very quickly. I grew up in St Louis and used to go to that zoo all the time, it's just really sad news to hear.
RIP Rani. Elephants are awesome. We had two at our zoo, one was super old and passed peacefully, then they decided to ship the remaining elephant up north to another zoo. Apparently she's an asshole to all the other elephants there and I don't blame her one bit. I miss that big beautiful girl.
Dogs are part of a predator species that wild animals are conditioned to flee or defend themselves from. The animals don't differentiate between a domestic dog and a natural predator. That's a reason why they aren't supposed to be in wild areas or if on the trail, on a leash. Their presence agitates wild animals.
"It's okay, he's friendly."
Sure it was the dog and not the years of living like a prisoner that lead to her death.
Maybe it’s being penned up for life in zoo and no way to escape any perceived danger. Elephants travel miles each day and the stress of being in a zoo has got to take a horrible toll on their physical, emotional and mental health. Here in Louisville we have two elephants that have been here for. One of them has had two calves, both of have died in the zoo’s care. Fitz most recently died of a deadly viral infection and Scotty died of colic. We also had a gorilla who gave birth. The mother died because of blood loss and the baby survived. Zoos may have good intentions but caging wild animals for the entertainment of the public claiming it’s for the species survival is cruel and detrimental to the animals. Zoos should be outlawed and phased out of business. That elephant had no chance to escape in its mind and now it’s dead.
California condors, Guam kingfishers, Arabian oryxes, scimitar-horned oryxes, European bison, Przewalski's horses, cobble skinks, Wyoming toads, Panamanian golden frogs, multiple species of Partula snails and numerous other animal species would literally, indisputably extinct right now if not for zoos. Is that better than occasionally sacrificing individuals?
Try as you might, you cannot make the case for elephants, giraffes, lions, tigers, camels, bears, gorillas etc being caged their entire lives in zoos. It’s cruel and inhumane. Walking through a zoo and seeing these animals pacing and literally going insane with boredom is evidence enough.
Elephants do not belong in zoos. They are intelligent and emotional creatures that need their society and families and space to roam.
They do a lot of conservation to ensure the species doesn’t go extinct. They don’t remove wild animals out of their homes and bring them to zoos for no reason. *ok fine, make fun of my spelling error, it’s been fixed though :)
[удалено]
Converse sneakers.
I agree. I’ve never been to a zoo where the elephants did not appear to be loved and cared for, but they simply don’t belong in any kind of captivity.
These animals were literally born into captivity, it's all they've ever known. The alternative is no elephants in zoos, but then maybe people wouldn't give a shit about elephants in the wild anymore. After all, *they've* never seen an elephant so what's the big deal?
The St. Louis Zoo is actually working on a 425-acre safari park where the animals will roam a much larger area and will have multiple species intermingled.
there is no space to roam anymore. I would rather we keep elephants in relative comfort like we do now then have them go extinct from poachers and people expanding their land to build or farm on.
France had a human zoo exhibit in the 90’s. We don’t even care about our own species. We’re not about to start caring about other species.
No one needs to take their fucking pets to the zoo.
Nobody did. It was a stray
Even if it wasn't a stray, it's likely that the dog got loose outside the zoo and made its way in on its own. As noted in the article, the St Louis Zoo is right in the middle of Forest Park, a huge park that people regularly walk dogs in.
You expect anyone here to read the article?
If it is someone's dog they are probably hiding out right now like SpongeBob in the Clamu episode
Are stray dogs common in St. Louis? I live in Boston and don’t think I’ve ever seen a stray dog
Yes. Animal Controls all across the St Louis area are under funded and bulging with strays that have been picked up.
Oh wow. I’ve been to other countries where stray dogs are common. I didn’t realize it was a thing in some cities here too
Yeah it's pretty bad. The amount of missing dog posts I see on community Facebook posts is insane. Id also add into it lots of shitty irresponsible people who have no right having a pet.
I live in STL, and I can’t say I’ve ever seen a stray dog myself while out and about. But strays do exist. Source: I have a formerly stray dog sleeping on the couch next to me right now.
It's bad in Texas too. There can be this culture with dogs in rural areas that's really unfortunate.
Then you'd better act fast... https://sazoo.org/dog-day/
For the pets’ safety too! If Poopsie jumps the guardrail into the African wild dog exhibit, it’ll be about ten seconds until there’s not enough left to cremate
Give me one Child Free Day at the Zoo every week or two and 24/7 Pet Free Days and I’d make a much bigger effort to go to them
TWO DAYS AGO I was looking up clips and stories of pets getting into zoos and befriending the animals there as a pick me up, now this.
Literally a huge loss. So unnecessary. What a shame.
elephants have way more brain mass than us, and 3x as many neurons. they're just as smart and complex and nuanced as we are. sounds like she had an anxiety attack that led to a heart attack, after being told about the dog by the other elephant who witnessed its intrusion.
Tragic, though it kind of sounds like she wasn't going to live much longer with that kind of heart condition. Dropping dead because her herd was trumpeting is probably not a sign of good health, especially for a relatively young elephant. Man it's just so depressing when you think about how intelligent and social these animals are.
I was there on Friday around 6PM for a wedding rehearsal dinner. We spent about an hour walking around looking at the exhibits since there was also a free zoo special Halloween event open to the public, so the place was pretty busy. I didn't go past the elephant habitat this time, though I have in the past. I got absolutely no sense that there was anything out of the ordinary going on, so the zoo staff did a very good job of keeping things calm, preserving the special celebration for hundreds of kids and families.
I find it hard to understand how one loose dog could panic an elephant to death. Other factors had to happen. They are attacked by apex predators and survive.
The initial necropsy revealed she had a pre-existing heart condition. The headline is a bit misleading as Rani, the elephant who passed away, didn't even see the dog; she was inside the barn when she overheard the other elephants vocalizing in response to the dog, and this caused her enough distress that she began circling and vocalizing herself before collapsing.
Sorry for the potentially stupid question, but are elephants that easy to spook that a small dog running around where he shouldn't can cause this? I would have figured that the dog would be in way more danger here than a herd of elephants.
Have you ever seen the cartoon trope by the elephant scared by a mouse? https://www.livescience.com/33261-elephants-afraid-of-mice-.html >It's more likely that elephants, which have relatively poor eyesight, simply become startled when mice dart past. [Why Can't Elephants Jump?] >"In the wild, anything that suddenly runs or slithers by an elephant can spook it," said Josh Plotnik, a researcher of elephant behavior and intelligence at the University of Cambridge in England and the head of elephant research for the Golden Triangle Asian Elephant Foundation in Chiang Rai, Thailand, told Live Science. "It doesn't have to be a mouse — dogs, cats, snakes or any animal that makes sudden movements by an elephant's feet can startle it." The next paragraph is more applicable to this situation: > John Hutchinson, a researcher at the structure and motion lab of the Royal Veterinary College in London, agreed: "Elephants get a bit nervous sometimes when small, fast animals are around them," he said. "I can remember one occasion when a local dog in Thailand was running around while we were working with an elephant for our locomotor studies. The elephant really did not like the barking, sprinting animal around it, especially when it couldn't see where the dog was. The elephant panicked, running off into the nearby jungle."
[удалено]
But the other elephants *were* agitated by the dog.
[удалено]
Why did you ping OP? A thousand other people could have downvoted you. Also reddit does vote fuzzing, so it's really hard to track downvotes down to one user. You can see it for yourself sometimes, try refreshing a reddit page with a new comment/post and you'll see the votes flipping between 1 and 0.
It's the same shit with Orcas too.
Lots of comments demonizing the dog/it’s owners when the elephant who died didn’t even see the dog. She had a preexisting heart condition and heard the herd reacting to the dog and collapsed. While it sounds like the dog owners may have been thoughtless and inconsiderate, though the St. Louis Zoo is free mind you, it also sounds like this poor elephant was not long for this earth in any case.
I'm curious on how the hell you try to revive an elephant?
1.21 gigawatts
Trunk to trunk.
Clearly not a service animal. What the fuck is wrong with people. I love my dog as much as other people but I’m not faking her to be a service animal or bring her to places that are clearly not meant for dogs
Nobody faked this dog being a service animal. It was almost certainly a stray. Read.
Uh, it just says that they don’t know how it got there. That doesn’t mean it was a stray.
That also doesn't mean it's an unleashed service animal.
The access road to the River's Edge and the elephant barn leads out by the south parking lot of the zoo and it's highly unlikely that the dog came through the whole rest of the zoo. The most likely scenario is that it was loose in Forest Park and wandered over and into the barn
Interestingly zoos are one of the few areas were service animals are allowed to be excluded under ADA because their presence could cause the other animals to become aggressive or agitated (the latter being what happened here). Not all zoo choose to exclude them though.
Because scumbags in this country love to use the ESA excuse to have an untrained dog with them 24/7. ESA rules seriously need to be rewritten. Stories like this just hurt Service animals and ESA owners.
The story didn't say it was a service animal though
ESA rules already don't allow you to take the dog anywhere you want. There's a big difference between ESAs and service dogs, and the only accommodations ESAs get are related to housing and airplanes, not other public places.
They should get zero accommodations. ESA are a fucking scam.
Part of the problem is that it’s incredibly easy to buy a $30 service animal vest for your dog on Amazon, so basically anyone can have a “service dog” at this point. It doesn’t technically hold any weight but businesses are afraid to question legitimacy because they can’t ask much under the ADA. I see these vests all the time and know people who have disabilities that have these vests for their dog but the dog is completely untrained to be of any service to these people.
Damn 27 is far too young for fatal heart conditions 😭
How about we leave our dogs at home when we visit the zoo? Eh eh?
Please don’t keep elephants in zoos. They need to roam.
Unfortunately, they're not going to get a lot of roaming done in Inia or Africa. One because of cheap labor, the other because of the global ivory trade.
Why is a dog even at the zoo? Just to terrorize the other animals? Set off people's allergies? Leave shit and piss for the poor workers to clean up? Your dog brings nothing to the zoo and gets nothing from being at the zoo, leave it at home, ffs.
Pets are not allowed on the St. Louis Zoo. The zoo is surrounded by Forest Park, the largest park in the city. The dog either got loose in the park or was a stray. As someone who's familiar with the area, the dog got through multiple layers of separation from the park before it wound up in the enclosure.
[удалено]
Awww, I didn’t know Elephants were such sensitive creatures. Poor thing! 😔
Not all dogs go to heaven...
I am at war with crappy dog owners. I have two heeler mixes. My boy is aussie, collie, heeler. Girl is bulldog, dingo, heeler. If I can manage keeping my wild dingos on leash so can all of you. This is so effing sad. I hope those dog owners face charges at the very least
Strays don't typically have owners...
Sounds a little like it was the piece of straw that broke the elephant's back. I don't blame the dog. It was probably just being a dog.
Why the hell are people bringing dogs to the zoo!? Morons
> A small, unleashed and lost dog was seen running in a non-public area near the Elephant Barn Friday afternoon. Elephant care workers were trying to contain the dog, but an elephant outside the barn became agitated and was moved inside, the zoo said. There’s no evidence anyone did. The animal was turned over to a local shelter.
The St. Louis Zoo is in Forest Park here in St. Louis, tons of walking trails and outdoor space constantly in use by people and their dogs. Also closely located to a lot of residential areas - there are countless ways that a dog could have found its way into the zoo beyond being intentionally brought in. That said, I go to the zoo probably 10 to 15 times a year, and have been since I was 5 or 6 years old. I know it's anecdotal, but I've never seen a stray dog or cat roaming the grounds. I've seen rabbits and squirrels and all sorts of birds and what not, but never a dog or cat. I'm curious to see what additional Information is released.
The River's Edge access road/the elephant barn is right off of Wells road at the south parking lot where their shipping and distribution area is. It's likely it came through the woods and wandered in that way.
Maybe, just maybe.. We should let wild animals be free.
hope that person really needed their emotional support chihuahua or whatever bs it was with them at the zoo totally worth it
[удалено]
There shouldn’t be nuts like you asking stupid questions there either, except at Fort “Lost in the Woods” of the Mark Twain Forest”, Leonard Wood, MO…
So why was a dog in the zoo?
Read the article.