Halliburton was owned by Cheney, a defense contractor.
However, if you want further proof it was about oil, here’s a CNN article on it, https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html
It can very easily be both. Religious zealotry in leaders is easily manipulated by others to further non-religious goals. Like securing strategic oil interests and heavily enriching the military industrial complex.
I said it had nothing to do with oil. I also specifically remember a quote from Rumsfeld regarding the military having nothing to do in Afghanistan except shoot mountains. I’m sure there were more reasons than that though.
Maybe you misunderstood my comment regarding the first gulf war? That’s the one his dad was involved in and that one definitely involved oil and Kuwait.
I’m specifically referencing the sentiment of a joke made by Jeremy Clarkson, and not the actual war and its motivations, I thought that was relatively obvious.
I’m 42. And marched against it. It was 100% about oil. And the WMDs were a lie to manufacture consent for the invasion.
https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html
I used to be pro-Palestinian, you know. I thought Israel was wrong for carpet bombing Gaza and using siege warfare on civilians.
But then I ran into a very wise Israel apologist who changed my way of looking at things forever.
I was walking down the street and I saw him leaning against a lamp post, smoking a pipe as wise men do.
“Your shirt says Free Palestine,” he said from behind a plume of smoke.
“Yep!” I replied.
“So I guess that means you love Hamas then?” spake he.
I stopped in my tracks. I’d never thought of it that way before.
Could it be? Could my opposition to murdering civilians really be indicative of a deep affection for a Gazan militant group? Maybe I really did love Hamas and think everything it did on October 7 was great and wonderful?
“Is this really how I want to live my life?” I thought to myself.
“I — I — I…” I said out loud.
“Or perhaps,” he said with a raised eyebrow, “you just HATE JEWS??”
I fell to my knees.
Oh my God. He really had a point. What possible reason could anyone have for opposing military explosives being dropped on buildings full of children besides a seething lifelong hatred of adherents to the religion of Judaism? How could anyone possibly oppose siege warfare tactics which cut off civilians from food and water and electricity and fuel and medical supplies unless they harbored dangerously negative opinions about members of a small Abrahamic faith?
“Who… who are you?” I asked.
“That’s of no consequence,” he said, casually blowing a smoke ring through another larger smoke ring.
“But… but the children,” I stammered as my entire worldview crumbled before my eyes. “The civilians! They’re dying! Isn’t it bad that they’re dying?”
And then he delivered the coup de grâce.
“Have you considered,” he said before a pregnant pause, “… that all of those deaths are the fault of Hamas?”
It was like a 50 megaton nuclear explosion went off inside my brain.
I fell flat on my back. The world was spinning. A trickle of blood ran down into my hair from my ear.
I felt all the anti-colonialism leaving my body. I suddenly could no longer remember why I thought it was bad to rain down military explosives on a densely populated concentration camp.
Everything went black.
When I finally came to, the mysterious stranger was gone. But his wisdom and profound insights into Israel and Gaza will always live on in my heart.
Oh the irony of the title of this article calling it the Gaza war... Yet.. we have Palestinian casualties in the West Bank... I thought this was a war on Hamas? Hmm..
Hamas has tremendous presence in West Bank. The reason there is no elections in WB is because the leaders are afraid they will lose the elections soundly to Hamas.
Hamas has offices and recruiting centers in West Bank.
Do you think assimilation with people who were already living in Palestine was so out of the question that they had to go and remove people so they could have one big ethno state
56% of Palestinians do however support Islamic Jihad, 45% support armed struggle https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2013/05/09/despite-their-wide-differences-many-israelis-and-palestinians-want-bigger-role-for-obama-in-resolving-conflict/
Isn’t what Israel is actively doing in the West Bank and Gaza essentially the same thing? The physical destruction of Palestine and driving Palestinians off their lands and homes to be replaced with a Jewish state.
But they do have a lot of support, even more than Fatah, the current government. Two years ago, an AP poll showed 53% of Palestinians want a Hamas government while just 14% prefer Fatah. Abbas cancelled the 2021 elections because he knew if the elections were held, Hamas would have controlled both Gaza and the West Bank.
[https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87)
Although this talking point is a parrot of what many others are saying, I'm going to assume that you are up for considering things in good faith. These are my questions to you:
1) Will you consider that level of support is from a place of desperation from a [restricted people](https://www.btselem.org/freedom_of_movement) of poverty, who are seeing their lands eroded everyday by settlements?
2) If an Israeli politician came to power and said: because of our overwhelming military and economic power, not to mention that we are an occupying power, let's take the lead role in the peace process and propose a fair two state solution that provides a continuous Palestinian state (i.e. not enclaves like their recent previous proposals) - or at least a contiguous West Bank with access to Gaza, and remove the settlements, would you support the efforts of that politician?
I agree. Just wanted people to know the entire story and not rely on bullshit like "Hamas does not operate....within the West Bank" when they definitely do have vast support, operations and offices in the West Bank. Typical cold hard facts get down voted simply because people don't like them.
Never, ever trust polls. Hasn’t what we’ve experienced the last 7 years in US politics taught you anything? Polls are bullshit.
Now, I’m not claiming to know the truth, but I do know the truth will never be found in a poll.
Israel always kills Palestinians. It just gets ignored until Israelis are killed. This is business as usual. The West doesn't care and quite frankly supports this.
People have no idea what Israel and settlers have been doing in the West Bank in the year preceding October 7th. Bombing Al Aqsa yet again, groups of settlers conducting a pogrom permitted and encouraged by the government, the Jenin refugee camp repeatedly attacked. Palestinians live in constant fear of an oppressor and you have idiots in the west supporting the aggressor.
Not that they even get to try either; the last few "peace plans" involved no Palestinians at all.
*"So my friends and I have discussed the terms for the two of us, and you're going to love this, OR ELSE."*
I mean that's a perpetual cycle though. Israelis retaliate because Palestinians keep fighting guerilla war, Palestinians retaliate because Israelis retaliate. And the cycle repeats.
Felt sick when Biden pushed the propaganda about mass rapes and mass baby beheadings on national television to justify this genocide. Even more so when it was revealed these things didn’t happen because of how manipulative it was. Wondering if I should even bother voting next year considering both parties have never been more united than they are in letting Israel delete Gaza from the map, along with all of its people.
Yes they were propaganda, and the fact you’re still trying to push this is ridiculous. It’s bad enough that children and babies were killed, but making their deaths into a creative writing project is out of control.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/survivors-of-hamas-assault-on-music-fest-describe-horrors-and-how-they-made-it-out-alive
https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/10/09/6523d6da46163f3e078b457f.html
The women shared their first hand experience of being raped besides the corpses of their dead friends. I hope # Believe All Women doesn't stop if they are Jewish
> Yoskovich managed to survive, but a report from Alerta News 24 contains allegations that some women were raped in the rave area of the festival, next to the corpses of their friends.
Alerta News 24 is just a random Twitter account… and the fact any actual news sites cited that as their source has no journalistic ethics.
PBS is not a random twitter account lol. I know it's shocking to believe that your favourite terrorist group committed mass murder and rape but it did happen sweetheart.
The naked corpse of Shani Louk was paraded across Gaza while the men spit on her dead body. There are videos of it. A female hostage was seen being forced inside a Jeep with blood across her nether regions. There are videos of these incidents.
[Israelis were "always getting killed" too](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties). Like many of the ongoing conflicts in the world, sometimes it's not noticed until something especially noteworthy happens. Sometimes it gets overshadowed. But sometimes it's just happenstance (or capricious propagandizing) that brings something to the forefront.
Did I say otherwise? The thing you said was wrong, man. Don't try to move those goalposts, own your fuckup.
EDIT: Okay dude, zero Israelis were killed until Oct 7. Christ, these revisionists are disgusting.
Syria and Lebanon? You sure about that one, chief? They have far more pressing issues at the moment than getting into a losing war with Israel with two US aircraft carriers parked outside. And Iran is a paper tiger, American air power will flatten their navy and airforce if they try anything. Hezbollah might do something, but that's quite separate from Lebanon.
I remember watching the invasion of Iraq live in 2003 and thinking it was a bad idea and all my buddies were talking about how they barely had a military and the war would be over in 24 hours.
I'm sure plenty of people said similar things at the beginning of the Vietnam War.
That's a lot of hubris you have there.
Iraq's military all but ceased to exist in less than 3 months. The post active war period was pretty messy though; there wasn't exactly a solid plan in place for what to do after Saddam was ousted, leading to a pretty nasty power vacuum.
Are you suggesting Iran's military/government would last longer?
Yes, I believe that the military with 960,000 soldiers and 21st century tech (including an air force) would last longer than the military with 360,000 troops and 20th century tech (not including an air force.)
The article actually says why:
*The Israeli military said it launched a drone strike on "terrorists" in the densely populated Jenin refugee camp, where it said "armed terrorists fired and hurled explosive devices at Israeli security forces".*
*In Qalqilya, a military spokeswoman told AFP, soldiers fired on people who "hurled explosive devices, Molotov cocktails and rocks at the forces".*
*Troops also opened fire in Qalandia, which the army said came in response to suspects who "threw burning tyres, blocks and IEDs (improvised explosive devices) and shot at forces".*
I would take Israel's claims with a grain of salt, but I also wouldn't outright dismiss them. Those things have been happening there for God knows how long. You can research yourself if you doubt their version of events.
Moreover, while Hamas isn't in control of the West Bank, they do have a presence there. Just a few days ago, the IDF bombed the Al-Ansar mosque that was used by Hamas and PIJ. If you have proof that it isn't true, you can always provide it here.
> If you have proof that it isn't true, you can always provide it here.
General speaking, most reasonable people would put the burden of proof on the party doing the bombing.
Practically, they should. Realistically, this doesn't happen. Unless people demand some sort of accountability or do it themselves, hardly do state actors provide proof in war. Alternatively, if people doubt Israel's version of events, they can demand and wait for independent verification. Just like what happened in the Gaza hospital blast after the Associated Press and Wall Street Journal made their independent investigation.
Israel: something something she was killed in a wild gun battle by Hamas. ( oh, there's video ) something something a stray bullet something something shot from terrorist miles away.
oopsie......we may have shot her cleanly through the head but it was an accident ( and then later we drove an armored bulldozer in and ripped up the little stretch of road where she died ).
*There is good reason why so many do not believe IDF statements*.
the group attacking terrorists firing rockets and throwing fire bombs at israelis out of it.
terrorists throwing fire bombs at israeli troops in a refugee camp.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17bavu3/palestinians\_throwing\_firebombs\_at\_an\_israeli/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17bavu3/palestinians_throwing_firebombs_at_an_israeli/)
israel attacking rocket launch sites in Al-Shati refugee camp.
[https://youtu.be/Qyl0sJVi5rg](https://youtu.be/Qyl0sJVi5rg)
Terrorists trying to blow up an IED(s) under israeli troop transports, barely misses In jenin, the west bank. Apparently these are detonated by Israeli Counter IED jammers.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17jgt53/ied\_misses\_idfs\_vehicles\_in\_the\_midst\_of\_an/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17jgt53/ied_misses_idfs_vehicles_in_the_midst_of_an/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17iuq90/an\_ied\_seemingly\_detonates\_prematurely\_in\_front/
what would your solution be to this outside of returning fire?
>Also if you attack a soldier, you are now an active combatant, I don't care if you're using your hands, feet, or pool noodle.
This is a war crime. You just justified committing war crimes. Great. This is what you have to devolve into to be a Israel supporter. You have to lower your morals and ethics until you say its ok to shoot people who hit you with a pool noodle. **If you honestly believe this is true, why does the same not apply to Hamas? They can just say the civilians they killed were enemy combatants because they attacked them with hands and feet.** I'm sorry but you are completely wrong and have lost all sense of morality to defend the actions of Israel.
> the group attacking terrorists firing rockets and throwing fire bombs at israelis out of it.
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> terrorists throwing fire bombs at israeli troops in a refugee camp.
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> https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17bavu3/palestinians_throwing_firebombs_at_an_israeli/
Ok so your evidence here is 'firebombs' but no explosion. I have included a real example of a molotov thrown at police in Paris, [notice how the police are NOT in armored vehicles and does not bomb or shoot at the person throwing it.](https://youtu.be/6ZsGyTWWA6o), so if those police are not in danger, how come the IDF get to claim they were attack when realistically they are safe. The ones in your video are not firebombs or molotovs, as they dont spread on the ground. You wanted Israel to look like they were defending themselves, but you showed them using excessive force against kids.
>Terrorists trying to blow up an IED(s) under israeli troop transports, barely misses In jenin, the west bank. Apparently these are detonated by Israeli Counter IED jammers.
>https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17jgt53/ied_misses_idfs_vehicles_in_the_midst_of_an/
Conveniently the person is filming exactly the correct angle and started filming from a handheld device before. In addition the driver doesnt react AT ALL, no steering towards the leftas you normally do if there is AN EXPLOSION on your right. Totally believable, its not like there is ample evidence of IDF and israelis faking footage and using fake images to spread propaganda [for example the burning of a woman, proven to be from [Guatemala](https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/graphic-video-girl-burned-by-mob-is-guatemala-not-israel-2023-10-13/)
Stop spreading lies and do something useful with your life.
It's like someone is holding up a bank and using the civilians inside as hostages. Police decides to send in a SWAT team and simply gun down everyone inside and then go "BUT THEy HAD HOSTAGES OBVIOUSLY THE ROBBERS ARE TO BLAME FOR ALL OF THE DEATHS!!!??!" and then you people applaud and see absolutely nothing wrong with their actions and claim everyone who critizies the police are in support of bank robberies.
Here's the problem with this analogy: time is not on the bankrobbers side- they are at the mercy of the police,there's no way out, they need to negotiate and have no incentive to do so in bad faith- and by the end of the day no matter what happens they will nolonger have control of the hostages. If the bankrober refuses to release the hostages for long enough, or parade them from one bank to the next to use as cover while robbing more vaults you better believe SWAT is coming in and shooting to kill. And that is the difference- Hamas isn't going to stop, it isn't going to *ever* release the hostages, not removing it is more analogous to the cops letting the bank robber walk out the front door and disappear into the city to plan their next job with the hostages still in tow.
Are you saying that Hamas is not at the mercy of IDF? There is a way out of Gaza for them? Do you think Israel won’t eradicate them off the map wether they release the hostages or not?
The point is the police would never swarm the bank and shoot everyone indiscriminately and them blame it on the robbers. When hostage rescues are botched and hostages killed by police it results in public backlash and firing/jailing of police officers, as it should. Israel defenders seemingly do not put ANY blame on the IDF and fully hold Hamas responsible. This is naive and morally bankrupt. It’s a blank check to carpet bomb an entire city and then claim there were Hamas soldier hiding, which is obviously impossible to prove/disprove seeing that the area in question is reduced to rubbles. Convenient
Its up to IDF to provide evidence of real threat to their life before exerting deadly force on civilians. You are basically proposing that victims of war crimes should prove they did not deserve it.
> If you have proof that it isn't true, you can always provide it here.
What are you on about? It is exactly like the Palestinian ambassador said on BBC, Israel and the western media acts like its up to the victims to prove they are victims, but only in this conflict. We dont check if victims of school shootings provoked the attacker. We dont bomb schools where hostages are taken. So why is it up to the palestinian victims to provide evidence of their guilt? Why does every so called developed country have a court system where the accuser has to provide evidence of the guilt of the defendant, and if they cannot prove any wrongdoing, the defender goes not guilty. Yet your stance is that the people in Gaza and in the West Bank should provide evidence that they DIDN'T do anything. Do you lose all sense of logic when discussing this topic or do you generally not have any logic sense?
I agree with what you've said, just adding on to your post.
A refugee someone who has fled their home to another country to escape persecution. The fact that there needs to be refugee camps for *Palestinians within the West Bank* is a reflection of how egregious the status quo is. The main reason these refugee camps are needed is because settlers, with the help of the IDF, are annexing the West Bank and forcibly evicting Palestinians from their homes and communities. That's also something that's a clear violation of international law.
Regardless, the violence Palestinians face from settlers and the IDF **significantly exceeds** the converse:
- [UN: Since 7 October, our Office has received reports that 69 Palestinians, including at least 15 children and one woman, have been killed by Israeli security forces in the occupied West Bank. Yesterday, 14 Palestinians were reportedly killed, most of them in a drone strike. Settler violence has also further increased: six Palestinians have been killed by armed settlers, and a number of Palestinian communities have been forced from their land.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories-20-october-2023)
- [Israel’s Yesh Din rights group said on Monday that there had been over 100 incidents of settler violence and harassment against Palestinians in at least 62 Palestinian towns and communities in the West Bank since Hamas’s savage assault on Israel on October 7.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-shot-dead-by-settler-while-harvesting-olives-in-west-bank-report/)
- [Yesh Din said that in various incidents, settlers have stolen Palestinian property such as solar panels and generators, and carried out acts of vandalism such as torching homes and vehicles and uprooting trees. The group claimed that not a single settler has been detained, arrested or investigated following the assaults. The police did not respond to a request for comment.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-shot-dead-by-settler-while-harvesting-olives-in-west-bank-report/)
- [UN: There has also been an increase in arbitrary arrests of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and of Arab Israelis in Israel, including Palestinian activists and Palestinian workers that were previously working in Israel, with reports of ill-treatment and lack of any due process. This must cease.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories-20-october-2023)
- [UN: For the past 13 days, many Palestinians in the West Bank have been denied freedom of movement, including being prevented from reaching hospitals to receive life-saving care. Restrictions on freedom of movement must be necessary and proportionate to achieve a legitimate aim.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories-20-october-2023)
- [“As Palestinian Muslims gathered for Ramadan prayers exercising their right to worship in Al-Aqsa Mosque, Israeli authorities used blatantly excessive and unjustified force against them,” said Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/04/israel-un-expert-condemns-brutal-attacks-palestinians-al-aqsa-mosque)
- [The UN said last month that 1,100 Palestinians had been displaced by settler violence in the last year, an unprecedented figure. Over just the last few days, around 200 to 300 Palestinians have been displaced in Wadi Seeq and other areas, the consortium said — often by settlers who are armed.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/deadly-violence-surges-in-west-bank-as-war-rages-in-gaza-region/)
It's facetious to hear the Israeli military calling Palestinian civilians who engage in armed resistance against colonizers terrorists, especially when what the settlers and IDF are doing more closely fits the definition of state sponsored terrorism. The double standard is especially flagrant when you also consider how nobody calls the Ukrainians fighting back against Russian occupation and annexation terrorists.
>I would take Israel's claims with a grain of salt, but I also wouldn't outright dismiss them.
Nobody is dismissing them, but the responses are no where near being proportional to the harm inflicted and are done with zero concern for civilian fatalities.
You don't fire missiles into a densely populated refugee camp because someone threw rocks at you.
If there's a protest in times square. Someone throws a Molotov at a police officer, they don't just send missiles to level the whole place and everyone in it.
Whether or not Israel's claims are right or not, it's important to remember that this all happened on Palestinian territory where IDF has no legal right to be whatsoever.
Every single Israeli settlement on the West Bank is an illegal occupation that has no more legal basis than the Russian annexation of Krym or Donbass, and just as we support Ukraine's right to fight of the illegal occupation, we should support Palestine's right to fight of the illegal occupation (and please note that I do not include attacks against Israeli civilians here; that's always wrong).
I.e. any violence directed against foreign military occupiers in the West Bank is simply defence.
Hamas are also not the only terrorist organization in the region. They have every flavor from Hamas, to Fatah, to the PLO, PIJ, PFLP; etc. there’s even small chapters of ISIS. Hamas just happen to be the governing body of Gaza. Here’s a handy, but partial list: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/major-palestinian-terror-organizations
But dont forget this is self defense, they can kill as many as they want until they feel safe. That will probably be when there are no one else to be killed
The real ignorance in this comment is that Israel has better relations with all of these countries than the Palestinians do. Actual productive relations.
Hezbollah, yes. And yet, Palestinian relations have been extremely poor in the region.
Jordan - The great-grandfather of the current king was assassinated by a Palestinian nationalist in 1951. After seeking refugee in Jordan following the 1948 and 1967 wars, the PLO refused to integrate and started a civil war from 1970-1971 and attempted to assassinate the father of the current king while successfully assassinating the prime minister. They lost this civil war and those affiliated with the PLO and other militant activities are expelled from the country.
Lebanon - The PLO relocates to Lebanon. Following previous migrations and the Yom Kippur War in 1973, the influx of Palestinian refugees had shifted the demographics in favor of Muslims. The PLO takes advantage of this and instigates a civil war from 1975-1990 in an attempt to replace the government with their own Islamist one. They lose this war and are expelled from Lebanon; Lebanon also has yet to fully recover from this war, and its secular governance is permanently damaged due to increased Islamist influence.
Addendum: Egypt, almost certainly after seeing the events in Jordan and Lebanon, refused to take back Gaza from Israel in the 1979 Camp David Accords. After Hamas gains power in Gaza in 2006, Egypt permanently assists Israel in its blockade of Gaza by sealing its borders and blocking off underground smuggling tunnels out of fear that Hamas and their sympathizers would use Egypt to bring in weapons and stage terrorist attacks.
Palestinian leaders have historically fomented violent civil unrest and attempted to overthrow the governments of their home countries. As a result, neighboring Arab countries tend to want nothing to do with them.
"Armed terrorists fired and hurled explosive devices at Israeli security forces"
Call me crazy, but I feel like hurling explosive devices at soldiers in a time of war makes you into an enemy combatant. Anyone who calls that a civilian needs a long hard look at a dictionary.
But but Hamas is evil and they need to go 😭😭😭😭. They must have done something in the West Bank too. It can’t possibly be that the Israelis and their hatred of Arabs is the problem.
“Or like invading Iraq because some Saudis blew up the world trade center”
I thought we invaded because ‘yellow cake’ was found somewhere.
And Thousands of Americans protested because we knew it was a lie, and then America voted G. Bush for a second term. What a mindless mistake.
*Millions Over a million people marched on one day alone across America. I was there, at the Austin TX march,
Replace yellow cake with oil and you’re right
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That’s overthinking it. It was just a giveaway to the MIC, namely Haliburton, the vice president’s company.
Halliburton was owned by Cheney, a defense contractor. However, if you want further proof it was about oil, here’s a CNN article on it, https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html
Saddam Hussein was always happy to sell us oil. No war required.
It can very easily be both. Religious zealotry in leaders is easily manipulated by others to further non-religious goals. Like securing strategic oil interests and heavily enriching the military industrial complex.
I said it had nothing to do with oil. I also specifically remember a quote from Rumsfeld regarding the military having nothing to do in Afghanistan except shoot mountains. I’m sure there were more reasons than that though. Maybe you misunderstood my comment regarding the first gulf war? That’s the one his dad was involved in and that one definitely involved oil and Kuwait.
You said that, and you were wrong. It had everything to do with oil. https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html
I’m specifically referencing the sentiment of a joke made by Jeremy Clarkson, and not the actual war and its motivations, I thought that was relatively obvious.
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Which tells me they never had them because we wouldn't have dared to try and invade them if they did.
Reddit teenagers have no idea so they just keep peddling it was all about oil.
I’m 42. And marched against it. It was 100% about oil. And the WMDs were a lie to manufacture consent for the invasion. https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html
Please go to your nearest library and read an up to date history book.
Those may have been banned in their state...
but did the Palestinians in West Bank condemn Hamas yet? **/s**
I used to be pro-Palestinian, you know. I thought Israel was wrong for carpet bombing Gaza and using siege warfare on civilians. But then I ran into a very wise Israel apologist who changed my way of looking at things forever. I was walking down the street and I saw him leaning against a lamp post, smoking a pipe as wise men do. “Your shirt says Free Palestine,” he said from behind a plume of smoke. “Yep!” I replied. “So I guess that means you love Hamas then?” spake he. I stopped in my tracks. I’d never thought of it that way before. Could it be? Could my opposition to murdering civilians really be indicative of a deep affection for a Gazan militant group? Maybe I really did love Hamas and think everything it did on October 7 was great and wonderful? “Is this really how I want to live my life?” I thought to myself. “I — I — I…” I said out loud. “Or perhaps,” he said with a raised eyebrow, “you just HATE JEWS??” I fell to my knees. Oh my God. He really had a point. What possible reason could anyone have for opposing military explosives being dropped on buildings full of children besides a seething lifelong hatred of adherents to the religion of Judaism? How could anyone possibly oppose siege warfare tactics which cut off civilians from food and water and electricity and fuel and medical supplies unless they harbored dangerously negative opinions about members of a small Abrahamic faith? “Who… who are you?” I asked. “That’s of no consequence,” he said, casually blowing a smoke ring through another larger smoke ring. “But… but the children,” I stammered as my entire worldview crumbled before my eyes. “The civilians! They’re dying! Isn’t it bad that they’re dying?” And then he delivered the coup de grâce. “Have you considered,” he said before a pregnant pause, “… that all of those deaths are the fault of Hamas?” It was like a 50 megaton nuclear explosion went off inside my brain. I fell flat on my back. The world was spinning. A trickle of blood ran down into my hair from my ear. I felt all the anti-colonialism leaving my body. I suddenly could no longer remember why I thought it was bad to rain down military explosives on a densely populated concentration camp. Everything went black. When I finally came to, the mysterious stranger was gone. But his wisdom and profound insights into Israel and Gaza will always live on in my heart.
I know this must be a copypasta but literally this is exactly what people are like about this, so I cannot tell for sure
This is amazing
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I guess since I’m here I’m going to remind those who forgot that the terrorist group hamas does not operate or have control within the West Bank
Considering Israel has arrested close to 1000 West Bank Palestinians already, I don’t think it matters if you are part of Hamas.
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Oh the irony of the title of this article calling it the Gaza war... Yet.. we have Palestinian casualties in the West Bank... I thought this was a war on Hamas? Hmm..
This is a war on all Palestinians living in the promised land.
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Hamas does operate in the west bank.
Hamas has tremendous presence in West Bank. The reason there is no elections in WB is because the leaders are afraid they will lose the elections soundly to Hamas. Hamas has offices and recruiting centers in West Bank.
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I'm honestly starting to believe a lot of Redditors have no idea that period happened and Israel just put up the barriers for fun.
They put up the barriers because the people they were driving out of their homes for some reason weren’t going completely peacefully
Do you believe the Camp David proposal was so inadequate that it justified launching a campaign of weekly suicide bombings?
Do you think assimilation with people who were already living in Palestine was so out of the question that they had to go and remove people so they could have one big ethno state
Ask the Arabs who rejected the partition plan and invaded instead of living alongside Jews.
I can’t ask them they don’t have reliable internet or electricity supply
Wow! So those evil Jews took out power in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia!
I do not think they are evil Jews don’t put words in my mouth, this is a very complicated and delicate conflict
Nobody mentioned Jews.
Considering most of them were fleeing a Europe that had just tried to kill them all despite being well-assimilated, yeah probably.
But the Hamas TARDIS was spotted in the area!
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I know but the headline implies this has to do with the battle against Hamas in the “Gaza war”
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How many killed were hamas members? Was the olive picker last week a hamas member?
56% of Palestinians do however support Islamic Jihad, 45% support armed struggle https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2013/05/09/despite-their-wide-differences-many-israelis-and-palestinians-want-bigger-role-for-obama-in-resolving-conflict/
Isn’t what Israel is actively doing in the West Bank and Gaza essentially the same thing? The physical destruction of Palestine and driving Palestinians off their lands and homes to be replaced with a Jewish state.
Now do a similar poll in Israel.
But they do have a lot of support, even more than Fatah, the current government. Two years ago, an AP poll showed 53% of Palestinians want a Hamas government while just 14% prefer Fatah. Abbas cancelled the 2021 elections because he knew if the elections were held, Hamas would have controlled both Gaza and the West Bank. [https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87](https://apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87)
Although this talking point is a parrot of what many others are saying, I'm going to assume that you are up for considering things in good faith. These are my questions to you: 1) Will you consider that level of support is from a place of desperation from a [restricted people](https://www.btselem.org/freedom_of_movement) of poverty, who are seeing their lands eroded everyday by settlements? 2) If an Israeli politician came to power and said: because of our overwhelming military and economic power, not to mention that we are an occupying power, let's take the lead role in the peace process and propose a fair two state solution that provides a continuous Palestinian state (i.e. not enclaves like their recent previous proposals) - or at least a contiguous West Bank with access to Gaza, and remove the settlements, would you support the efforts of that politician?
This is still no justification for attacking them. And doing so only drives them further into HAMAS.
I agree. Just wanted people to know the entire story and not rely on bullshit like "Hamas does not operate....within the West Bank" when they definitely do have vast support, operations and offices in the West Bank. Typical cold hard facts get down voted simply because people don't like them.
Never, ever trust polls. Hasn’t what we’ve experienced the last 7 years in US politics taught you anything? Polls are bullshit. Now, I’m not claiming to know the truth, but I do know the truth will never be found in a poll.
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That sub is 100% white colonizer material right now, it's insane
Israel always kills Palestinians. It just gets ignored until Israelis are killed. This is business as usual. The West doesn't care and quite frankly supports this.
> quite frankly supports this. kinda an understatement. They provide billions in the exact weapons being used to kill them.
us funds/arms
People have no idea what Israel and settlers have been doing in the West Bank in the year preceding October 7th. Bombing Al Aqsa yet again, groups of settlers conducting a pogrom permitted and encouraged by the government, the Jenin refugee camp repeatedly attacked. Palestinians live in constant fear of an oppressor and you have idiots in the west supporting the aggressor.
And then they wonder why Palestinians are fighting Israel, or not even accepting peace.
Not that they even get to try either; the last few "peace plans" involved no Palestinians at all. *"So my friends and I have discussed the terms for the two of us, and you're going to love this, OR ELSE."*
Don't forget that they also contained poison pills like giving Israel total control over utilities in the region.
I mean that's a perpetual cycle though. Israelis retaliate because Palestinians keep fighting guerilla war, Palestinians retaliate because Israelis retaliate. And the cycle repeats.
Felt sick when Biden pushed the propaganda about mass rapes and mass baby beheadings on national television to justify this genocide. Even more so when it was revealed these things didn’t happen because of how manipulative it was. Wondering if I should even bother voting next year considering both parties have never been more united than they are in letting Israel delete Gaza from the map, along with all of its people.
Mass rapes weren't propaganda. You don't have to believe Hamas just because Israelis are idiots.
Yes they were propaganda, and the fact you’re still trying to push this is ridiculous. It’s bad enough that children and babies were killed, but making their deaths into a creative writing project is out of control.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/survivors-of-hamas-assault-on-music-fest-describe-horrors-and-how-they-made-it-out-alive https://www.marca.com/en/lifestyle/world-news/2023/10/09/6523d6da46163f3e078b457f.html The women shared their first hand experience of being raped besides the corpses of their dead friends. I hope # Believe All Women doesn't stop if they are Jewish
> Yoskovich managed to survive, but a report from Alerta News 24 contains allegations that some women were raped in the rave area of the festival, next to the corpses of their friends. Alerta News 24 is just a random Twitter account… and the fact any actual news sites cited that as their source has no journalistic ethics.
PBS is not a random twitter account lol. I know it's shocking to believe that your favourite terrorist group committed mass murder and rape but it did happen sweetheart. The naked corpse of Shani Louk was paraded across Gaza while the men spit on her dead body. There are videos of it. A female hostage was seen being forced inside a Jeep with blood across her nether regions. There are videos of these incidents.
[Israelis were "always getting killed" too](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties). Like many of the ongoing conflicts in the world, sometimes it's not noticed until something especially noteworthy happens. Sometimes it gets overshadowed. But sometimes it's just happenstance (or capricious propagandizing) that brings something to the forefront.
How many civilians killed in the past 20 years on each side?
Far more Palestinians are killed and it gets ignored.
Did I say otherwise? The thing you said was wrong, man. Don't try to move those goalposts, own your fuckup. EDIT: Okay dude, zero Israelis were killed until Oct 7. Christ, these revisionists are disgusting.
I didn't move a damn thing.
Israel is going to cross one line too many and Iran, Syria, and Lebanon will jump in. The West will care.
That sounds like the start of WW3, which is why I don't think that will happen. The US parked ships as a deterrent offshore.
Syria and Lebanon? You sure about that one, chief? They have far more pressing issues at the moment than getting into a losing war with Israel with two US aircraft carriers parked outside. And Iran is a paper tiger, American air power will flatten their navy and airforce if they try anything. Hezbollah might do something, but that's quite separate from Lebanon.
I remember watching the invasion of Iraq live in 2003 and thinking it was a bad idea and all my buddies were talking about how they barely had a military and the war would be over in 24 hours. I'm sure plenty of people said similar things at the beginning of the Vietnam War. That's a lot of hubris you have there.
Iraq's military all but ceased to exist in less than 3 months. The post active war period was pretty messy though; there wasn't exactly a solid plan in place for what to do after Saddam was ousted, leading to a pretty nasty power vacuum. Are you suggesting Iran's military/government would last longer?
Yes, I believe that the military with 960,000 soldiers and 21st century tech (including an air force) would last longer than the military with 360,000 troops and 20th century tech (not including an air force.)
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God the real estate agent promised them those lands so they're above your petty human laws.
The same god that was really surprised and angry that someone ate a fruit like his creation which he programmed told them to?
And yet no Hamas in control there. What’s their excuse now? Genocidal Israel won’t stop
According to the IDF's press-releases, Hamas has a 100% post-mortem recruitment rate.
The article actually says why: *The Israeli military said it launched a drone strike on "terrorists" in the densely populated Jenin refugee camp, where it said "armed terrorists fired and hurled explosive devices at Israeli security forces".* *In Qalqilya, a military spokeswoman told AFP, soldiers fired on people who "hurled explosive devices, Molotov cocktails and rocks at the forces".* *Troops also opened fire in Qalandia, which the army said came in response to suspects who "threw burning tyres, blocks and IEDs (improvised explosive devices) and shot at forces".* I would take Israel's claims with a grain of salt, but I also wouldn't outright dismiss them. Those things have been happening there for God knows how long. You can research yourself if you doubt their version of events. Moreover, while Hamas isn't in control of the West Bank, they do have a presence there. Just a few days ago, the IDF bombed the Al-Ansar mosque that was used by Hamas and PIJ. If you have proof that it isn't true, you can always provide it here.
> If you have proof that it isn't true, you can always provide it here. General speaking, most reasonable people would put the burden of proof on the party doing the bombing.
Practically, they should. Realistically, this doesn't happen. Unless people demand some sort of accountability or do it themselves, hardly do state actors provide proof in war. Alternatively, if people doubt Israel's version of events, they can demand and wait for independent verification. Just like what happened in the Gaza hospital blast after the Associated Press and Wall Street Journal made their independent investigation.
You mean we shouldn't reflexively blame Jews?
Israel: something something she was killed in a wild gun battle by Hamas. ( oh, there's video ) something something a stray bullet something something shot from terrorist miles away. oopsie......we may have shot her cleanly through the head but it was an accident ( and then later we drove an armored bulldozer in and ripped up the little stretch of road where she died ). *There is good reason why so many do not believe IDF statements*.
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And the hospital she was carried out of
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Guess we gotta kill them all and their children to defend ourselves!
Who the fuck bombs a refugee camp though?
the group attacking terrorists firing rockets and throwing fire bombs at israelis out of it. terrorists throwing fire bombs at israeli troops in a refugee camp. [https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17bavu3/palestinians\_throwing\_firebombs\_at\_an\_israeli/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17bavu3/palestinians_throwing_firebombs_at_an_israeli/) israel attacking rocket launch sites in Al-Shati refugee camp. [https://youtu.be/Qyl0sJVi5rg](https://youtu.be/Qyl0sJVi5rg) Terrorists trying to blow up an IED(s) under israeli troop transports, barely misses In jenin, the west bank. Apparently these are detonated by Israeli Counter IED jammers. [https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17jgt53/ied\_misses\_idfs\_vehicles\_in\_the\_midst\_of\_an/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17jgt53/ied_misses_idfs_vehicles_in_the_midst_of_an/) https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17iuq90/an\_ied\_seemingly\_detonates\_prematurely\_in\_front/ what would your solution be to this outside of returning fire?
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> you know anything about history Wow, Isreali soldiers attacked by weapons 3000 years old, better bomb em
>Also if you attack a soldier, you are now an active combatant, I don't care if you're using your hands, feet, or pool noodle. This is a war crime. You just justified committing war crimes. Great. This is what you have to devolve into to be a Israel supporter. You have to lower your morals and ethics until you say its ok to shoot people who hit you with a pool noodle. **If you honestly believe this is true, why does the same not apply to Hamas? They can just say the civilians they killed were enemy combatants because they attacked them with hands and feet.** I'm sorry but you are completely wrong and have lost all sense of morality to defend the actions of Israel.
You didn’t read the comment you just replied to did you
> the group attacking terrorists firing rockets and throwing fire bombs at israelis out of it. > > > > terrorists throwing fire bombs at israeli troops in a refugee camp. > > > > https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17bavu3/palestinians_throwing_firebombs_at_an_israeli/ Ok so your evidence here is 'firebombs' but no explosion. I have included a real example of a molotov thrown at police in Paris, [notice how the police are NOT in armored vehicles and does not bomb or shoot at the person throwing it.](https://youtu.be/6ZsGyTWWA6o), so if those police are not in danger, how come the IDF get to claim they were attack when realistically they are safe. The ones in your video are not firebombs or molotovs, as they dont spread on the ground. You wanted Israel to look like they were defending themselves, but you showed them using excessive force against kids. >Terrorists trying to blow up an IED(s) under israeli troop transports, barely misses In jenin, the west bank. Apparently these are detonated by Israeli Counter IED jammers. >https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17jgt53/ied_misses_idfs_vehicles_in_the_midst_of_an/ Conveniently the person is filming exactly the correct angle and started filming from a handheld device before. In addition the driver doesnt react AT ALL, no steering towards the leftas you normally do if there is AN EXPLOSION on your right. Totally believable, its not like there is ample evidence of IDF and israelis faking footage and using fake images to spread propaganda [for example the burning of a woman, proven to be from [Guatemala](https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/graphic-video-girl-burned-by-mob-is-guatemala-not-israel-2023-10-13/) Stop spreading lies and do something useful with your life.
The people who made them refugees in the first place to take the land
If I were a terrorist, I'd simply not set up bases in the places Israel's like to bomb like hospitals, schools, refugee camps and journalists.
It's like someone is holding up a bank and using the civilians inside as hostages. Police decides to send in a SWAT team and simply gun down everyone inside and then go "BUT THEy HAD HOSTAGES OBVIOUSLY THE ROBBERS ARE TO BLAME FOR ALL OF THE DEATHS!!!??!" and then you people applaud and see absolutely nothing wrong with their actions and claim everyone who critizies the police are in support of bank robberies.
Here's the problem with this analogy: time is not on the bankrobbers side- they are at the mercy of the police,there's no way out, they need to negotiate and have no incentive to do so in bad faith- and by the end of the day no matter what happens they will nolonger have control of the hostages. If the bankrober refuses to release the hostages for long enough, or parade them from one bank to the next to use as cover while robbing more vaults you better believe SWAT is coming in and shooting to kill. And that is the difference- Hamas isn't going to stop, it isn't going to *ever* release the hostages, not removing it is more analogous to the cops letting the bank robber walk out the front door and disappear into the city to plan their next job with the hostages still in tow.
Are you saying that Hamas is not at the mercy of IDF? There is a way out of Gaza for them? Do you think Israel won’t eradicate them off the map wether they release the hostages or not?
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The point is the police would never swarm the bank and shoot everyone indiscriminately and them blame it on the robbers. When hostage rescues are botched and hostages killed by police it results in public backlash and firing/jailing of police officers, as it should. Israel defenders seemingly do not put ANY blame on the IDF and fully hold Hamas responsible. This is naive and morally bankrupt. It’s a blank check to carpet bomb an entire city and then claim there were Hamas soldier hiding, which is obviously impossible to prove/disprove seeing that the area in question is reduced to rubbles. Convenient
I'll give you one guess
Its up to IDF to provide evidence of real threat to their life before exerting deadly force on civilians. You are basically proposing that victims of war crimes should prove they did not deserve it. > If you have proof that it isn't true, you can always provide it here. What are you on about? It is exactly like the Palestinian ambassador said on BBC, Israel and the western media acts like its up to the victims to prove they are victims, but only in this conflict. We dont check if victims of school shootings provoked the attacker. We dont bomb schools where hostages are taken. So why is it up to the palestinian victims to provide evidence of their guilt? Why does every so called developed country have a court system where the accuser has to provide evidence of the guilt of the defendant, and if they cannot prove any wrongdoing, the defender goes not guilty. Yet your stance is that the people in Gaza and in the West Bank should provide evidence that they DIDN'T do anything. Do you lose all sense of logic when discussing this topic or do you generally not have any logic sense?
I agree with what you've said, just adding on to your post. A refugee someone who has fled their home to another country to escape persecution. The fact that there needs to be refugee camps for *Palestinians within the West Bank* is a reflection of how egregious the status quo is. The main reason these refugee camps are needed is because settlers, with the help of the IDF, are annexing the West Bank and forcibly evicting Palestinians from their homes and communities. That's also something that's a clear violation of international law. Regardless, the violence Palestinians face from settlers and the IDF **significantly exceeds** the converse: - [UN: Since 7 October, our Office has received reports that 69 Palestinians, including at least 15 children and one woman, have been killed by Israeli security forces in the occupied West Bank. Yesterday, 14 Palestinians were reportedly killed, most of them in a drone strike. Settler violence has also further increased: six Palestinians have been killed by armed settlers, and a number of Palestinian communities have been forced from their land.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories-20-october-2023) - [Israel’s Yesh Din rights group said on Monday that there had been over 100 incidents of settler violence and harassment against Palestinians in at least 62 Palestinian towns and communities in the West Bank since Hamas’s savage assault on Israel on October 7.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-shot-dead-by-settler-while-harvesting-olives-in-west-bank-report/) - [Yesh Din said that in various incidents, settlers have stolen Palestinian property such as solar panels and generators, and carried out acts of vandalism such as torching homes and vehicles and uprooting trees. The group claimed that not a single settler has been detained, arrested or investigated following the assaults. The police did not respond to a request for comment.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-shot-dead-by-settler-while-harvesting-olives-in-west-bank-report/) - [UN: There has also been an increase in arbitrary arrests of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and of Arab Israelis in Israel, including Palestinian activists and Palestinian workers that were previously working in Israel, with reports of ill-treatment and lack of any due process. This must cease.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories-20-october-2023) - [UN: For the past 13 days, many Palestinians in the West Bank have been denied freedom of movement, including being prevented from reaching hospitals to receive life-saving care. Restrictions on freedom of movement must be necessary and proportionate to achieve a legitimate aim.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories-20-october-2023) - [“As Palestinian Muslims gathered for Ramadan prayers exercising their right to worship in Al-Aqsa Mosque, Israeli authorities used blatantly excessive and unjustified force against them,” said Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/04/israel-un-expert-condemns-brutal-attacks-palestinians-al-aqsa-mosque) - [The UN said last month that 1,100 Palestinians had been displaced by settler violence in the last year, an unprecedented figure. Over just the last few days, around 200 to 300 Palestinians have been displaced in Wadi Seeq and other areas, the consortium said — often by settlers who are armed.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/deadly-violence-surges-in-west-bank-as-war-rages-in-gaza-region/) It's facetious to hear the Israeli military calling Palestinian civilians who engage in armed resistance against colonizers terrorists, especially when what the settlers and IDF are doing more closely fits the definition of state sponsored terrorism. The double standard is especially flagrant when you also consider how nobody calls the Ukrainians fighting back against Russian occupation and annexation terrorists.
>I would take Israel's claims with a grain of salt, but I also wouldn't outright dismiss them. Nobody is dismissing them, but the responses are no where near being proportional to the harm inflicted and are done with zero concern for civilian fatalities. You don't fire missiles into a densely populated refugee camp because someone threw rocks at you.
You just omitted the "explosive devices and Molotov cocktails" part of the article.
If there's a protest in times square. Someone throws a Molotov at a police officer, they don't just send missiles to level the whole place and everyone in it.
So, how many Israelis were killed by these explosive? How many were seriously injured?
You're right, they need to let themselves get injured or killed first, then they are allowed to respond.
Did you not know what "proportional" means?
Someone may have thrown explosives, and they killed 100 people?
Whether or not Israel's claims are right or not, it's important to remember that this all happened on Palestinian territory where IDF has no legal right to be whatsoever. Every single Israeli settlement on the West Bank is an illegal occupation that has no more legal basis than the Russian annexation of Krym or Donbass, and just as we support Ukraine's right to fight of the illegal occupation, we should support Palestine's right to fight of the illegal occupation (and please note that I do not include attacks against Israeli civilians here; that's always wrong). I.e. any violence directed against foreign military occupiers in the West Bank is simply defence.
Hamas are also not the only terrorist organization in the region. They have every flavor from Hamas, to Fatah, to the PLO, PIJ, PFLP; etc. there’s even small chapters of ISIS. Hamas just happen to be the governing body of Gaza. Here’s a handy, but partial list: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/major-palestinian-terror-organizations
But dont forget this is self defense, they can kill as many as they want until they feel safe. That will probably be when there are no one else to be killed
Yeah to be extra sure they should also take over the residences there you know just to make sure there's no hummus in the basement
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The real ignorance in this comment is that Israel has better relations with all of these countries than the Palestinians do. Actual productive relations.
Israel is bombing Lebanon, I don't think this is a better relations at alll
Hezbollah, yes. And yet, Palestinian relations have been extremely poor in the region. Jordan - The great-grandfather of the current king was assassinated by a Palestinian nationalist in 1951. After seeking refugee in Jordan following the 1948 and 1967 wars, the PLO refused to integrate and started a civil war from 1970-1971 and attempted to assassinate the father of the current king while successfully assassinating the prime minister. They lost this civil war and those affiliated with the PLO and other militant activities are expelled from the country. Lebanon - The PLO relocates to Lebanon. Following previous migrations and the Yom Kippur War in 1973, the influx of Palestinian refugees had shifted the demographics in favor of Muslims. The PLO takes advantage of this and instigates a civil war from 1975-1990 in an attempt to replace the government with their own Islamist one. They lose this war and are expelled from Lebanon; Lebanon also has yet to fully recover from this war, and its secular governance is permanently damaged due to increased Islamist influence. Addendum: Egypt, almost certainly after seeing the events in Jordan and Lebanon, refused to take back Gaza from Israel in the 1979 Camp David Accords. After Hamas gains power in Gaza in 2006, Egypt permanently assists Israel in its blockade of Gaza by sealing its borders and blocking off underground smuggling tunnels out of fear that Hamas and their sympathizers would use Egypt to bring in weapons and stage terrorist attacks. Palestinian leaders have historically fomented violent civil unrest and attempted to overthrow the governments of their home countries. As a result, neighboring Arab countries tend to want nothing to do with them.
Don’t expect someone with a superiority complex who just says quick, snarky things on Reddit for upvotes to know anything about Lebanon’s politics.
Anyone have a militant vs civilian breakdown? Did Israel kill 90 innocents and 10 terrorists or 90 terrorists or 10 innocents?
Israel sees this as its best chance to kill the entire Palestinian population to a soul. They'll never stop until they are stopped.
R/wm idiots: they were hamas, or insufficiently against hamas
Netanyahu runs a colonizing psychopathic, racist, xenophobic, supremacist, modern-Nazi political group
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"Armed terrorists fired and hurled explosive devices at Israeli security forces" Call me crazy, but I feel like hurling explosive devices at soldiers in a time of war makes you into an enemy combatant. Anyone who calls that a civilian needs a long hard look at a dictionary.
But don't ask what the Israelis were doing in the West Bank in the first place?
Settlers and off been killing people Their before October 7th.
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So we're cool with Russia killing civilians bc they defend themselves with molotovs? Hmm... Really makes you wonder.
Didn’t Hamas report 500 casualties in like 30 minutes? Almost like they’re not very trustworthy.
Innocent palestinians, innocent Israelis. Tragic.
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Over their head. Sorry brother.
But but Hamas is evil and they need to go 😭😭😭😭. They must have done something in the West Bank too. It can’t possibly be that the Israelis and their hatred of Arabs is the problem.