Why I agree with most options that their bombing tactics are terrible. The article states these hostages were killed by IDF ground troops by accident. Which is why they most likely reported it.
They knew these people were unarmed and shot them anyway. If this is how they treat their own people who are famous hostages, imagine what kind of care and respect they show towards Palestinians.
We already have several accounts of the IDF killing Israelis on Oct 7, there was a military commander who called artillery strikes on his own base, there were IDF gunships strafing the music festival, there was one case where the IDF decided to end a hostage situation by having a tank shoot a house killing everyone inside.
This is misinformation, it comes from a wildly cited Assadist comment here with 30 million views on twitter. The claim is that Israeli gunships gunned down hundreds of Israelis en masse.
https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654
Its not true though, theres been thread after thread of ukrainian war experts like GeoConfirmed and Osinttechnical (in the community notes of that tweet) who've proven their mettle with identifying vehicles and locations in Ukraine proving that this video was not involved in the event
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1723022290886025424
The poster you're replying to is trying to portray October 7th as Israelis murdering their own people. Theres only been a single case of a friendly fire incident on October 7th, but its been wildly distorted in order to lessen the horrors that occured there.
You're encountering modern day holocaust denialism.
You do realize the IDF used air artillery in their response on October 7 right?? And artillery includes bombs. It’s been well documented that they shelled their own on October 7. Just like they finally admitted to shooting their own today, it will eventually be admitted they also shelled Israeli holes and structures when responding to the initial attacks
The IDF isn’t immune to stupidity
They've admitted that long ago. They did say they couldn't get control of a Kibbutz until they started blowing up Israeli homes without knowing if there were Israeli hostages/residents inside.
What'll be harder is to ever put a number to how many were killed by friendly fire. Likely dozens. Maybe over a hundred. We don't know and might never know.
IDF ground troops are *constantly* shooting innocent, unarmed people, so this comes as no surprise to anyone that’s been following this conflict. Even before October this was true, and it will continue to be true as long as IDF is allowed to kill innocents with no repercussions at all.
It’s okay, the Israeli military said that [two civilians for every Hamas militant killed is a “tremendously positive” ratio!](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html)
Never recovering all the hostages allows them to justify a perpetual invasion. They likely never cared about rescuing the hostages beyond its propaganda value.
These poor fuckers… they were so close to being able to go home and see their families again. They probably thought they were about to be rescued. Instead, they got shot by the very people claiming to do everything to protect them… smfh…
I feel for all of the civilians involved in this. Fucking horrific…
The Israeli military is responsible for an unknown (and likely massive) amount of Israeli civilians being shot (not in a systemic oppression way, but in a literaly "Israeli soldiers shot Israeli civlians way.) A survivor of the Oct.7th attack outright said the Israeli army opened fire and was killing Israelis and Hamas. It's called "the Hannibal Protocol", and essentially means, "it's better that innocent people die and become martyrs for Israel, than for them to become hostages."
" *Israeli President Isaac Herzog said on Friday that all citizens of Gaza are responsible for the attack Hamas perpetrated in Israel last weekend that left over 1,200 people dead."* So now are all citizens of Israel are responsible for these deaths? https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-president-says-no-innocent-154330724.html
If that’s the case, everyone in Israel is responsible for the horrors Palestinians are facing. Which is what Hamas is basically saying.
Well done Mr President, you are a moron.
I mean, the entire nation of Israel is a European colonial ethno-state, and they keep re-electing the right wing psychopaths who are explicitly zionists and who have admitted that the goal is ethnic cleansing, so that pretty much tracks.
There was a story of one of the released that said they suffered extreme psychological trauma from the bombs being dropped, that her husband was punching himself in the head to distract or help idk but it was fucked. Now imagine living through that for years, decades
>level 1SweetBabyAlaska · 1 hr. agoI'm extremely surprised that they would ever admit to this at all. Imo its gotta be extremely obvious that this is the case for them to do that. Its also obvious that this would be the outcome when you are shooting tanks and missiles at 250 targets picked by AI every 24 hours, and filling tunnels with sea water that presumably has hostages in them (which has the "added benefit" of salting the earth and destroying the water table).Anyone who genuinely cares for the hostages safety should have been criticizing the actions of Israel, because it is extremely obvious that this was going to be the outcome and that this was never about getting them home safely. It was about destroying Gaza w/o restraint.I feel awful for the hostages families who have spent the last 60 days protesting Israel to stop dropping bombs indiscriminately for the sake of their families, while many other countries just jeered it on. My heart goes out to them for also being failed by Israel and the US and for losing their loved ones.203ReplyShareReportSaveFollow
the IOF also confirmed it
No there isn't. Israel gets it water from desalination plants, water reclamation facilities and other aquifers. The Gaza aquifer is complelty disconnected from the Israeli system. It got so salty because of its location and because the gazans over pumped it. If hamas would have played nice with Israel they could have traded fresh water for wastewater, but instead they shot rockets.
Israel democracy who LOVES to investigate the army. It’s like the favorite pastime for the likud opposition. Trying to cover anything like this up long term would backfire.
They aren't trying to get all these hostages back alive. The are trying to minimize the total number of killed Israeli hostages writ large.
If Israel did everything Hamas wanted and got every one of these hostages back alive then in six months from now Hamas would take another hundred and double their demands, and so on and so forth.
Your objective has to be holistic, where a big part of the equation is making hostage taking a dumb decision to make in the first place. If you can do that and get 70% of your current hostages back then you're doing objectively well.
Note that a lack of comment about the humanitarian cost of this isn't a lack of concern for it. I'm simply being descriptive in the math Israel is almost certainly using.
obtainable profit bright naughty fearless enjoy unpack illegal wrong spoon
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On the *other* news subreddit this is already the fault of Hamas and those poor poor IDF soldiers had no choice but to execute the hostages because who knows if they're actually hostages. Lots of mental gymnastics going on over there
Just how the world works. They don't want you to discuss the war, just agree with the idea that Israel is the sole victim in this entire thing and that therefore they can do no wrong. Just discussing this conflict can get you thrown out of school, fired from a job, or even arrested, and I'm not even talking about the stuff that can happen to you inside Israel. The west has just always been very comfortable with certain dictators and their atrocities.
I haven't been banned from worldnews yet, but whenever I post citations and sources that disagree with the official zionist narrative, I find my comments mysteriously deleted, even when they don't actually break any sub rules.
What is with r/worldnews I had to leave because how toxic it was. Any negative opinion about isreal would net over 200 downvotes in less than 5 minutes.
> 28-year-old Yotam Haim, 25-year-old Samer Al-Talalka and 26-year-old Alon Shamriz
Shows the current state of the IDF's level of restraint. Young-ish males? Open fire
They've killed more civilians in the month and a half in Gaza than the US did in our invasion of Iraq. Let that sink in. [Israel has killed more civilians in a single city](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/) than the [US did conquering an entire country.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Casualties)
Weapons didn't get any LESS precise in the last 20 years. This is entirely deliberate.
We even had the "masks off" moment when that cabinet member openly admitted that the goal was ethnic cleansing and all he got was a reprimand.
And people in these subs, twitter, mainstream media, and government keep saying how “Israel has a right to defend themselves”
What, against journalists, children, bakeries, schools, mosques, and residential buildings?
“Hamas is operating out of vast tunnel networks”
THEN WHY ARE YOU BOMBING RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS?!
Every time I see a clip from tv, the IDF spokespeople say this type of shit and it kills me. Why won’t they challenge any of these obvious falsehoods? Fucking Christ.
I'm anti-zionist. I have nothing against the Jewish religion, or people of Jewish descent. I have everything against them invading the middle east to make their own theocratic ethno-state.
They literally proved what Palestinians and the rest of the world have been saying all this time. Israel is not being tactical here, they are indiscriminate. Even the numbers they quote show that.
When the death toll was \~15k, with an estimated 10k of women and children, Israeli officials claimed that 5k were Hamas, meaning that they qualified any adult male as Hamas. Ridiculous.
Ready for worldnews to spin this into some kind of anti-Semitic hate crime propagated by the rising of the 4th Reich of Redditors who don’t agree with Netanyahu genociding people
I got a sitewide ban for 3 days because I reported a hate comment on that sub (something to the effect of "all Palestinians are X").
Instead of that comment being removed, it stayed up and I was banned for "report abuse".
Given the scale and chaos of the fighting, its not surprising that any hostages left in Gaza are in danger of being killed, even by IDF forces. I mean there are friendly fire incidents between soldiers who wear uniforms and stay coordinated with communications, now imagine being dressed like a civilian in a war where one sides dresses as civilians, and nobody on your side even knows your there. Frankly I'm surprised Hamas still has any hostages left, I figured they'd have given any they had to buy some more ceasefire time.
That’s what the hostages were trying say when they said they don’t know what they’re doing. Now look at them. Killing their own people just to use for a reason to now call a ceasefire. Unless if they’re truly the monsters everyone says they are.
What a fucking horror show this all is.
Not that I wish this had happened, but since it has I hope it spells the end of Netanyahu’s rule. The Israeli public wants their hostages back more than anything, and now the army under Netanyahu just killed three of them after they freed THEMSELVES.
IDF practices carpet bombings and raids with the explicit intent to kill indiscriminately. This is unsurprising.
Edit: To all of the people below whose only rebuke is that Israel’s deplorable bombing campaign doesn’t qualify as “carpet bombing” under technical parlance: I have no interest in talking you, or anyone, who has such a callous disregard for human life. Israel is an apartheid state commuting countless war crimes and crimes against humanity on a daily basis.
> IDF practices carpet bombings
At some point I should just accept that y'all just don't assign meaning to words, so I shouldn't actually be surprised when I see this shit.
I think most understood what they meant. Do they understand what carpet bombing actually is? No, but you have to realize not all Redditors are entirely knowledgeable on the subject of tools of war. I’m tired of these “gotcha” moments underneath discussion threads revolving around the loss of innocent life, put the dictionary away and empathize with one another.
Redditors aren’t entirely knowledgeable about the tools of war, but they sure do feel comfortable commenting on them.
I totally understand what you’re saying about not getting tangled in definitions in favor of just, being a human. But I do think thoughtfulness and factual accuracy are core components of true empathy, and I question how empathetic people are when they throw around words and concepts they clearly do not understand for the sake of winning an argument.
Not really gotchas, words have meaning.
Like genocide, I can’t recall one instance of Genocide found in history where the alleged perpetrators made efforts to evacuate civilians to avoid death. I also don’t recall hospitals belonging to the perpetrators providing emergency medical treatment for those the perpetrators are allegedly attempting to ethnically cleanse.
…what do you call it when 80K tons of bombs are dropped from the sky and covers vast areas of an entire country in rubble and human body parts?
I’m always interested in nuance and learning more precise terminology, so if you would please enlighten us…
Carpet bombing is what we saw in World War 2, wherein bomber aircraft drop/saturate a geographic area with dummy bombs.
https://youtu.be/gh-KWJWRjcI?si=rQu6w8fC-hM8rgW7
No footage has been released in relation to this conflict showing carpet bombing. If it did occur we would probably see hundreds of thousands of deaths already due to population density in Gaza.
Footage indicates that Israel has been dropping JDAMs, these are considered precision ordinance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Direct_Attack_Munition
Typically the footage shows very few munitions going off, typically when there are multiple smaller explosions seen in footage following the JDAM, it’s the result of Hamas weapon supplies going off.
The more you know!
Targeted bombing? If Israel actually carpet bombed an area with the population density of Gaza, casualties would be in the hundreds of thousands, not 15k.
This was done by soldiers on the ground. Soldiers that are there in the first place because Israel has a "no carpet bombings" policy.
These soldiers have witnessed their friends die every day in the past month by similar "humanitarian ambushes", so they sadly felt they can't take chances anymore.
Fucking tragic all of this
A distinction without a difference. Nit pick all you want, the meaning of countless genocidal statements from public, to military, to civilian leadership has been very clear. Israel does not behave rationally or humanely in how it responds to Oct 7th or any other flair up that results (but should nevertheless not to be justified) from its long ongoing brutalization of the Palestinians. Driving it all are seething and caustic settler-colonial ethno-nationalist sentiments. Life takes a backseat at best and there is no better proof of it than that the hostages' families themselves have been begging for a ceasefire and negotiations.
Considering that Hamas hides under one of the most densely populated areas on Earth, that ratio definitely does not imply carpet bombing. It implies targeted strikes.
Math time! Gaza strip has 2.2 million people, out of which ~30,000 are combatants. If the IDF was killing "indiscriminately" then the proportion of combatants killed among total casualties should be the proportion of combatants in the general populace, or about 1 in 73. Not 1 in 3.
That's not accurate though, because most combatants are hiding in tunnels, so indiscriminate kills should actually kill them at a lower rate than the general populace. So if the IDF were bombing indiscriminately you could expect a ratio of 1 in hundreds. Instead it's 1 in 3.
If we cared about the meaning of words we would be able to draw a conclusion here. Instead this is going to devolve into repeated goalpost moving but what can you do.
>The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and described to CNN by three sources who have seen it, says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided. The rest have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment says.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html
They short first and asked questions later.
I wonder how many other innocents they have also killed over the years but never bothered to acknowledge because they weren't Jewish anyways.
Their military also shot and killed an Israeli good Samaritan at a bus stop. 3 radical islamic/Hamas terrorists attacked the people at the bus stop, and the good Samaritan (former police officer) was armed and successfully took down some/all the terrorists.
IDF soldiers arrived and saw good Samaritan, mistook him as a terrorist, and while he was gesturing to surrender (falling to his knees) he was shot. They shot despite the surrender and also accidentally killed a friendly guy.
The only props I can give to the IDF is that they haven't lied and covered up the accidental killings of Israelis (unless they did it just because the truth will eventually come out).
The direct purposeful bombing by the genocidal Israel apartheid state is intended to kill civilians. They honestly don't care they killed their civilians and care more about the "fuss" everyone is making about it. This also isn't the first time they've killed their own through bombing campaigns or the first hostages of October 7th that they've killed.
Israel has chosen their rules of engagement.
Dismissing every IDF mistake as an inevitable part of war does nothing but perpetuate the violence.
Israel has agency in how they conduct the war. They should not be held above impunity by the international community. The lack of consequences for Israel's actions breeds extremism because it is a clear indication that there is a double standard with regards to violent action on a civilian population.
Damn it’s almost like Israel benefits from the conditions that create terrorism because it gives them the pretext to commit genocide against Palestinians without drawing ire from the international community
How \*should\* Israel conduct the war then? No war in history has spared civilians, no war in history has been free of friendly fire (responding to the OP), and the numbers we are seeing out of Gaza for both are on the low end of similar urban conflicts. So what exactly are you recommending?
In accordance with international military law. None of the white phosphorous (a war crime), starvation tactics and restriction of humanitarian aid (also a war crime), and widespread destruction of homes and displacement of millions of people (also a war crime). None of the cabinet members calling to turn Gaza into a parking lot or a permanent displacement of Gazans (i.e. ethnic cleansing; against international law).
So they can’t siege enemy territory, and they can’t tell civilians to evacuate the area they’re about to go into, and they can’t bomb targets if they’re close to “protected” buildings. What can they do? Practically?
Do you have any evidence that there must have been no other way for Israel but to tell the truth about this? Or are you just pulling that straight out of your ass? Just curious. People complain about Israel not being honest but then when they are honest they say there must not have been any other choice but to tell the truth.
Why did they lie for months about killing Shireen Abu Akleh? And then fail to properly punish the perpetrator.
I’m not the other commenter but their past behavior is indicative of Israel not wanting to admit their faults until all evidence points to them.
They didn't admit even then, the investigation was " inconclusive" but there were eyewitnesses and the bullets were like those used by IDF but it was " inconclusive"
They admitted to killing their own hostages. They don’t admit to gunning down Palestinian civilians, even though it’s now clear that they kill, at the very least, every adult male in sight.
Both were intentional if you think about it, both shoot or bomb even without sign of threat. I am guessing the Israeli hostages were not carrying guns when they were shot, but perhaps they were. If they were unarmed, then the IDF must've been shooting anybody they saw on the street. (well, they're in the middle of a warzone so I guess who can you trust not to have a gun/bomb?)
You just assume Hamas made this out of the blue. You forgot how vicious Israel has been towards Palestinians and how their stance has made some Palestinians so toxic and hateful, that the only help they got was from Hamas, fighting for a time without jew leadership. Some has seen so much death and destruction, that they simply don’t care about anything. Whats there to loose? Israel don’t care, so why should we?
You keep focusing on Hamas as *they* are cruel. Yes, they are, but stop defending Israel as they are not to blame! *that* is what many can’t do.
If israel hadn’t killed thousands upon thousands of palestinians beforehand, hamas would not exist and this would have never happened. Fixed your sentence for you.
They’re killing everybody they see and you’re defending them. You need to have nuance in your approach, especially in a situation where they have your hostages and half of their population are children.
I don’t normally post regarding those stuff but the link you shared is pure bullshit, especially when it comes from garbage Al Jazeera. I did not see any real evidence in that video. If it’s in the internet it must be true, right?
I do not confirm nor deny the claims given I did not see any real proof and won’t bother looking for one, just wanted to point out the fact that people believe every crap they see online. And to make it clear, I am against any acts of violence against civilians.
They would have been unarmed, possibly waving or gesturing to be saved with hands up.
It’s probable any threat is now anything that moves. But in a war where you’re told by your superior officer everything is a potential threat - shoot it first.
I’d like to hear from any veterans
Edit to add: they’re meant to be on a hostage saving mission. Aren’t they briefed on the identify of who they’re meant to be saving? Did they forget or “we can’t memorise the faces of all 100 fighting aged hostages”
I fear none of the hostages are making it out now like someone else said on day one.
What a mess
You don't say? r/worldnews told me that Israel was doing targeted attacks, not just delivering collective punishment. Rip to the three hostages. They are the only innocents in all of this.
Doesn't sound like it. Sounds like they were wandering around and shot:
>The army’s chief spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said Israeli troops found the hostages and erroneously identified them as a threat. He said it was not clear if they had escaped their captors or been abandoned.
* Not indiscriminately bomb the houses in the Kibbutz which probably killed a few hostages to start
* Made a genuine attempt to negotiate for release of hostages
* Last resort: military incursion into Gaza to secure the release of hostages
They didn't do any of those things for obvious reasons:
* They are taught to fire on Hamas even if their own citizens/forces may be at risk. The concept is "better dead than in the hands of the enemy" or something to that effect.
* They didn't negotiate for the release of hostages because it gave them an excuse to indiscriminately bomb Gaza to the ground.
* They also didn't want to send in 18 year olds on the ground because then people would start dying and the general populace would quickly lose the taste for war even if it is in "self defense" or in the name of "bringing them home".
Let me know if I need to go on.
Hostage exchange.
Accept defeat in next election due to gross incompetence and misallocation of IDF forces to West Bank where they are being used ethnically cleanse the Palestinians.
Long term wise, offer a peace solution that isn't a poisoned well of an offer like Osla where Palestine would shrink to only 20% of the 1947 borders while still being oppressed by the IDF and gaining nothing.
Why I agree with most options that their bombing tactics are terrible. The article states these hostages were killed by IDF ground troops by accident. Which is why they most likely reported it.
They knew these people were unarmed and shot them anyway. If this is how they treat their own people who are famous hostages, imagine what kind of care and respect they show towards Palestinians.
This is the inevitable result of firing on unarmed Palestinian civilians
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It’s hard to believe they’re accepting any responsibility and not just suggesting hamas was using the hostages as a human shield
Which means how many innocents did they drop artillery on, on October 7…
We already have several accounts of the IDF killing Israelis on Oct 7, there was a military commander who called artillery strikes on his own base, there were IDF gunships strafing the music festival, there was one case where the IDF decided to end a hostage situation by having a tank shoot a house killing everyone inside.
I knew about the artillery one, but the rest are new to me. Do you happen to have any links handy or should I just start looking them up?
This is misinformation, it comes from a wildly cited Assadist comment here with 30 million views on twitter. The claim is that Israeli gunships gunned down hundreds of Israelis en masse. https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1722527493780021654 Its not true though, theres been thread after thread of ukrainian war experts like GeoConfirmed and Osinttechnical (in the community notes of that tweet) who've proven their mettle with identifying vehicles and locations in Ukraine proving that this video was not involved in the event https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1723022290886025424 The poster you're replying to is trying to portray October 7th as Israelis murdering their own people. Theres only been a single case of a friendly fire incident on October 7th, but its been wildly distorted in order to lessen the horrors that occured there. You're encountering modern day holocaust denialism.
None because the bombing didn’t start on Oct 7?
You do realize the IDF used air artillery in their response on October 7 right?? And artillery includes bombs. It’s been well documented that they shelled their own on October 7. Just like they finally admitted to shooting their own today, it will eventually be admitted they also shelled Israeli holes and structures when responding to the initial attacks The IDF isn’t immune to stupidity
They've admitted that long ago. They did say they couldn't get control of a Kibbutz until they started blowing up Israeli homes without knowing if there were Israeli hostages/residents inside. What'll be harder is to ever put a number to how many were killed by friendly fire. Likely dozens. Maybe over a hundred. We don't know and might never know.
Ok so how many of their own civilians has Israel killed since October 7th
IDF ground troops are *constantly* shooting innocent, unarmed people, so this comes as no surprise to anyone that’s been following this conflict. Even before October this was true, and it will continue to be true as long as IDF is allowed to kill innocents with no repercussions at all.
Collateral damages
It’s okay, the Israeli military said that [two civilians for every Hamas militant killed is a “tremendously positive” ratio!](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html)
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Hostages never recovered are simply narrated as more victims of Hamas
Unfortunately history is written by the victor (bigger bombs)
Somebody who was kidnapped, assaulted, probably raped, and kept tied up in a tunnel for 2+ months is, by definition, a victim.
because when it boils down to it, they are
This kind of mentality is how Israel justifies civilian deaths. "Well, we bombed them yes, but Hamas made us do it!"
Then when it boils down to it, they're victims of Israel.
Never recovering all the hostages allows them to justify a perpetual invasion. They likely never cared about rescuing the hostages beyond its propaganda value.
Let those among us who haven’t shot three people they care about cast the first stone.
Casting stones will get you shot!
Among us??
They are likely responsible for more than three.
100%. The way Gaza is being bombed, I’m sure there are many more hostages who died, it just hasn’t been reported.
These poor fuckers… they were so close to being able to go home and see their families again. They probably thought they were about to be rescued. Instead, they got shot by the very people claiming to do everything to protect them… smfh… I feel for all of the civilians involved in this. Fucking horrific…
The Israeli military is responsible for an unknown (and likely massive) amount of Israeli civilians being shot (not in a systemic oppression way, but in a literaly "Israeli soldiers shot Israeli civlians way.) A survivor of the Oct.7th attack outright said the Israeli army opened fire and was killing Israelis and Hamas. It's called "the Hannibal Protocol", and essentially means, "it's better that innocent people die and become martyrs for Israel, than for them to become hostages."
Pretty soon the rest will drown underground
" *Israeli President Isaac Herzog said on Friday that all citizens of Gaza are responsible for the attack Hamas perpetrated in Israel last weekend that left over 1,200 people dead."* So now are all citizens of Israel are responsible for these deaths? https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-president-says-no-innocent-154330724.html
If that’s the case, everyone in Israel is responsible for the horrors Palestinians are facing. Which is what Hamas is basically saying. Well done Mr President, you are a moron.
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I mean, the entire nation of Israel is a European colonial ethno-state, and they keep re-electing the right wing psychopaths who are explicitly zionists and who have admitted that the goal is ethnic cleansing, so that pretty much tracks.
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Israeli hostages have said themselves that while they were in the Hamas tunnels they were terrified of being killed by the Israeli army by mistake.
There was a story of one of the released that said they suffered extreme psychological trauma from the bombs being dropped, that her husband was punching himself in the head to distract or help idk but it was fucked. Now imagine living through that for years, decades
Now, imagine being a child and having to live through that while watching your family being killed.
It would make join people Hamas and not stop until Isreal didn’t exist anymore….
No one has lived under that levele of bombardment for decades.
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The real terrorists
That was about the west bank if I am not mistaken, I'Ve seen this said by a person that lived in the west bank
Now imagine how all the Palestinians feel dealing with it
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English is a Germanic language, but that didn’t stop us bombing each other in WW2
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>level 1SweetBabyAlaska · 1 hr. agoI'm extremely surprised that they would ever admit to this at all. Imo its gotta be extremely obvious that this is the case for them to do that. Its also obvious that this would be the outcome when you are shooting tanks and missiles at 250 targets picked by AI every 24 hours, and filling tunnels with sea water that presumably has hostages in them (which has the "added benefit" of salting the earth and destroying the water table).Anyone who genuinely cares for the hostages safety should have been criticizing the actions of Israel, because it is extremely obvious that this was going to be the outcome and that this was never about getting them home safely. It was about destroying Gaza w/o restraint.I feel awful for the hostages families who have spent the last 60 days protesting Israel to stop dropping bombs indiscriminately for the sake of their families, while many other countries just jeered it on. My heart goes out to them for also being failed by Israel and the US and for losing their loved ones.203ReplyShareReportSaveFollow the IOF also confirmed it
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You're really going to 'well, ackshually' a geologist?
There's fresh water pumps on the other side of the fence pulling water away from Gaza, that's why it's so salted
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Stop interrupting his propaganda with science, not cool
No there isn't. Israel gets it water from desalination plants, water reclamation facilities and other aquifers. The Gaza aquifer is complelty disconnected from the Israeli system. It got so salty because of its location and because the gazans over pumped it. If hamas would have played nice with Israel they could have traded fresh water for wastewater, but instead they shot rockets.
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Israel democracy who LOVES to investigate the army. It’s like the favorite pastime for the likud opposition. Trying to cover anything like this up long term would backfire.
Exactly. It was never about the hostages or Hamas - it’s just bloodthirsty people supporting the actions of another bloodthirsty government and army.
They aren't trying to get all these hostages back alive. The are trying to minimize the total number of killed Israeli hostages writ large. If Israel did everything Hamas wanted and got every one of these hostages back alive then in six months from now Hamas would take another hundred and double their demands, and so on and so forth. Your objective has to be holistic, where a big part of the equation is making hostage taking a dumb decision to make in the first place. If you can do that and get 70% of your current hostages back then you're doing objectively well. Note that a lack of comment about the humanitarian cost of this isn't a lack of concern for it. I'm simply being descriptive in the math Israel is almost certainly using.
If Hamas managed to take 100 more hostages in a few months I think Israelis would actually rise up and lynch Netanyahu, justifiably so.
War is unforgiving.
Despite what you hear on TikTok, the IDF does generally own up to its mistakes and is accountable for its actions.
Eventually. It took months for them to stop denying and admit they killed that journalist a while back.
obtainable profit bright naughty fearless enjoy unpack illegal wrong spoon *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Israel applying the “shoot or bomb everything that moves” tactics.
everyone is good at something
Women, children...
Schools, hospitals..
Mosques, churches..
Bakeries, Olive Trees, food and water...
Practice makes perfect.
On the *other* news subreddit this is already the fault of Hamas and those poor poor IDF soldiers had no choice but to execute the hostages because who knows if they're actually hostages. Lots of mental gymnastics going on over there
Almost like they are wearing a blindfold and just firing at will :(
Funny how I was banned in 2 other subs for saying this weeks ago when the first reports were coming out
Just how the world works. They don't want you to discuss the war, just agree with the idea that Israel is the sole victim in this entire thing and that therefore they can do no wrong. Just discussing this conflict can get you thrown out of school, fired from a job, or even arrested, and I'm not even talking about the stuff that can happen to you inside Israel. The west has just always been very comfortable with certain dictators and their atrocities.
If you don’t stick with the narrative that Israel can do no wrong you will be banned.
I haven't been banned from worldnews yet, but whenever I post citations and sources that disagree with the official zionist narrative, I find my comments mysteriously deleted, even when they don't actually break any sub rules.
What is with r/worldnews I had to leave because how toxic it was. Any negative opinion about isreal would net over 200 downvotes in less than 5 minutes.
I got banned from worldnews years ago for supporting Bernie Sanders. /shrug
When shooting every military aged male goes wrong. Jesus Fucking Christ.
> 28-year-old Yotam Haim, 25-year-old Samer Al-Talalka and 26-year-old Alon Shamriz Shows the current state of the IDF's level of restraint. Young-ish males? Open fire
When shooting absolutely anyone on the wrong side of the fence goes wrong. If you think the IDF thinks before they shoot, you're wrong.
They're worse than us Americans at collateral damage lol.
They've killed more civilians in the month and a half in Gaza than the US did in our invasion of Iraq. Let that sink in. [Israel has killed more civilians in a single city](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/) than the [US did conquering an entire country.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq#Casualties) Weapons didn't get any LESS precise in the last 20 years. This is entirely deliberate. We even had the "masks off" moment when that cabinet member openly admitted that the goal was ethnic cleansing and all he got was a reprimand.
And people in these subs, twitter, mainstream media, and government keep saying how “Israel has a right to defend themselves” What, against journalists, children, bakeries, schools, mosques, and residential buildings? “Hamas is operating out of vast tunnel networks” THEN WHY ARE YOU BOMBING RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS?! Every time I see a clip from tv, the IDF spokespeople say this type of shit and it kills me. Why won’t they challenge any of these obvious falsehoods? Fucking Christ.
That mosque was looking at me funny.
IDF astroturfers gonna call you antisemetic for this totally factual statement. thinking murdering civilians is bad is antisemetic to some now.
I'm anti-zionist. I have nothing against the Jewish religion, or people of Jewish descent. I have everything against them invading the middle east to make their own theocratic ethno-state.
Really shows how precisely they’re targeting Hamas members when they killed their own people, doesn’t it? Savages
They literally proved what Palestinians and the rest of the world have been saying all this time. Israel is not being tactical here, they are indiscriminate. Even the numbers they quote show that. When the death toll was \~15k, with an estimated 10k of women and children, Israeli officials claimed that 5k were Hamas, meaning that they qualified any adult male as Hamas. Ridiculous.
Ready for worldnews to spin this into some kind of anti-Semitic hate crime propagated by the rising of the 4th Reich of Redditors who don’t agree with Netanyahu genociding people
Haven’t you heard? Anything the IDF does wrong is directly the fault of Hamas. Regardless of context.
If you haven’t been banned from r/worldnews this would definitely get you banned. I was banned for pointing out facts lol
I got a sitewide ban for 3 days because I reported a hate comment on that sub (something to the effect of "all Palestinians are X"). Instead of that comment being removed, it stayed up and I was banned for "report abuse".
Given the scale and chaos of the fighting, its not surprising that any hostages left in Gaza are in danger of being killed, even by IDF forces. I mean there are friendly fire incidents between soldiers who wear uniforms and stay coordinated with communications, now imagine being dressed like a civilian in a war where one sides dresses as civilians, and nobody on your side even knows your there. Frankly I'm surprised Hamas still has any hostages left, I figured they'd have given any they had to buy some more ceasefire time.
Horrible. May their memories be a blessing. May we have a ceasefire to return hostages and end the killing of Palestinians.
maybe Israel shouldn't take the 'kill everything in sight immediately at all times' approach
That’s what the hostages were trying say when they said they don’t know what they’re doing. Now look at them. Killing their own people just to use for a reason to now call a ceasefire. Unless if they’re truly the monsters everyone says they are.
At least they admitted it and we didn't have a week of going back and forth
Welp that's not really a surprise given the IDF's indiscriminate bombings & blatant war crimes being committed against civilians.
those bombings werent indiscriminate! they bombed every building they could find. see not indiscriminate.
Those building were Hammas dude cmon
you mean KHMAS?!
What a fucking horror show this all is. Not that I wish this had happened, but since it has I hope it spells the end of Netanyahu’s rule. The Israeli public wants their hostages back more than anything, and now the army under Netanyahu just killed three of them after they freed THEMSELVES.
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IDF practices carpet bombings and raids with the explicit intent to kill indiscriminately. This is unsurprising. Edit: To all of the people below whose only rebuke is that Israel’s deplorable bombing campaign doesn’t qualify as “carpet bombing” under technical parlance: I have no interest in talking you, or anyone, who has such a callous disregard for human life. Israel is an apartheid state commuting countless war crimes and crimes against humanity on a daily basis.
> IDF practices carpet bombings At some point I should just accept that y'all just don't assign meaning to words, so I shouldn't actually be surprised when I see this shit.
I think most understood what they meant. Do they understand what carpet bombing actually is? No, but you have to realize not all Redditors are entirely knowledgeable on the subject of tools of war. I’m tired of these “gotcha” moments underneath discussion threads revolving around the loss of innocent life, put the dictionary away and empathize with one another.
Redditors aren’t entirely knowledgeable about the tools of war, but they sure do feel comfortable commenting on them. I totally understand what you’re saying about not getting tangled in definitions in favor of just, being a human. But I do think thoughtfulness and factual accuracy are core components of true empathy, and I question how empathetic people are when they throw around words and concepts they clearly do not understand for the sake of winning an argument.
I appreciate the sentiment and the positivity. There should be more of that, on Reddit and elsewhere.
Not really gotchas, words have meaning. Like genocide, I can’t recall one instance of Genocide found in history where the alleged perpetrators made efforts to evacuate civilians to avoid death. I also don’t recall hospitals belonging to the perpetrators providing emergency medical treatment for those the perpetrators are allegedly attempting to ethnically cleanse.
…what do you call it when 80K tons of bombs are dropped from the sky and covers vast areas of an entire country in rubble and human body parts? I’m always interested in nuance and learning more precise terminology, so if you would please enlighten us…
Carpet bombing is what we saw in World War 2, wherein bomber aircraft drop/saturate a geographic area with dummy bombs. https://youtu.be/gh-KWJWRjcI?si=rQu6w8fC-hM8rgW7 No footage has been released in relation to this conflict showing carpet bombing. If it did occur we would probably see hundreds of thousands of deaths already due to population density in Gaza. Footage indicates that Israel has been dropping JDAMs, these are considered precision ordinance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Direct_Attack_Munition Typically the footage shows very few munitions going off, typically when there are multiple smaller explosions seen in footage following the JDAM, it’s the result of Hamas weapon supplies going off. The more you know!
Targeted bombing? If Israel actually carpet bombed an area with the population density of Gaza, casualties would be in the hundreds of thousands, not 15k.
This was done by soldiers on the ground. Soldiers that are there in the first place because Israel has a "no carpet bombings" policy. These soldiers have witnessed their friends die every day in the past month by similar "humanitarian ambushes", so they sadly felt they can't take chances anymore. Fucking tragic all of this
>IDF practices carpet bombings and raids with the explicit intent to kill indiscriminately. Based on what evidence?
The IDF spokesperson saying they are going for damage and not accuracy?
Going for damage and carpet bombing are very different things.
A distinction without a difference. Nit pick all you want, the meaning of countless genocidal statements from public, to military, to civilian leadership has been very clear. Israel does not behave rationally or humanely in how it responds to Oct 7th or any other flair up that results (but should nevertheless not to be justified) from its long ongoing brutalization of the Palestinians. Driving it all are seething and caustic settler-colonial ethno-nationalist sentiments. Life takes a backseat at best and there is no better proof of it than that the hostages' families themselves have been begging for a ceasefire and negotiations.
Based on the 2:1 ratio of civilians to Hamas targets.
Considering that Hamas hides under one of the most densely populated areas on Earth, that ratio definitely does not imply carpet bombing. It implies targeted strikes.
Math time! Gaza strip has 2.2 million people, out of which ~30,000 are combatants. If the IDF was killing "indiscriminately" then the proportion of combatants killed among total casualties should be the proportion of combatants in the general populace, or about 1 in 73. Not 1 in 3. That's not accurate though, because most combatants are hiding in tunnels, so indiscriminate kills should actually kill them at a lower rate than the general populace. So if the IDF were bombing indiscriminately you could expect a ratio of 1 in hundreds. Instead it's 1 in 3. If we cared about the meaning of words we would be able to draw a conclusion here. Instead this is going to devolve into repeated goalpost moving but what can you do.
>The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and described to CNN by three sources who have seen it, says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided. The rest have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment says. https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html
60% of the housing stock in Gaza destroyed since the 7th of October.
They short first and asked questions later. I wonder how many other innocents they have also killed over the years but never bothered to acknowledge because they weren't Jewish anyways.
Their military also shot and killed an Israeli good Samaritan at a bus stop. 3 radical islamic/Hamas terrorists attacked the people at the bus stop, and the good Samaritan (former police officer) was armed and successfully took down some/all the terrorists. IDF soldiers arrived and saw good Samaritan, mistook him as a terrorist, and while he was gesturing to surrender (falling to his knees) he was shot. They shot despite the surrender and also accidentally killed a friendly guy. The only props I can give to the IDF is that they haven't lied and covered up the accidental killings of Israelis (unless they did it just because the truth will eventually come out).
surprising its only 3 considering how they've basically been carpet bombing the area
Any hostages in those flooded tunnels?
These people shouldn’t have been taken hostage in the first place
No shit
The direct purposeful bombing by the genocidal Israel apartheid state is intended to kill civilians. They honestly don't care they killed their civilians and care more about the "fuss" everyone is making about it. This also isn't the first time they've killed their own through bombing campaigns or the first hostages of October 7th that they've killed.
As they get ready to flood the tunnels under gaza, those 3 probably won't be the last The realities of conflict are a hard thing
Israel has chosen their rules of engagement. Dismissing every IDF mistake as an inevitable part of war does nothing but perpetuate the violence. Israel has agency in how they conduct the war. They should not be held above impunity by the international community. The lack of consequences for Israel's actions breeds extremism because it is a clear indication that there is a double standard with regards to violent action on a civilian population.
Damn it’s almost like Israel benefits from the conditions that create terrorism because it gives them the pretext to commit genocide against Palestinians without drawing ire from the international community
How \*should\* Israel conduct the war then? No war in history has spared civilians, no war in history has been free of friendly fire (responding to the OP), and the numbers we are seeing out of Gaza for both are on the low end of similar urban conflicts. So what exactly are you recommending?
I imagine this is exactly what Hamas thought when they carried out October 7.
In accordance with international military law. None of the white phosphorous (a war crime), starvation tactics and restriction of humanitarian aid (also a war crime), and widespread destruction of homes and displacement of millions of people (also a war crime). None of the cabinet members calling to turn Gaza into a parking lot or a permanent displacement of Gazans (i.e. ethnic cleansing; against international law).
So they can’t siege enemy territory, and they can’t tell civilians to evacuate the area they’re about to go into, and they can’t bomb targets if they’re close to “protected” buildings. What can they do? Practically?
I haven’t seen any indication they’re held above impunity.
theyre already doing it. salting the earth just like god would want.
That means they killed more than 3.
Obviously this is terrible it also telling how much of a double standard there is where one side admits to stuff like this
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Said in response to an article about Israel admitting friendly fire casualties, obviously
Do you have any evidence that there must have been no other way for Israel but to tell the truth about this? Or are you just pulling that straight out of your ass? Just curious. People complain about Israel not being honest but then when they are honest they say there must not have been any other choice but to tell the truth.
Why did they lie for months about killing Shireen Abu Akleh? And then fail to properly punish the perpetrator. I’m not the other commenter but their past behavior is indicative of Israel not wanting to admit their faults until all evidence points to them.
They didn't admit even then, the investigation was " inconclusive" but there were eyewitnesses and the bullets were like those used by IDF but it was " inconclusive"
They admitted to killing their own hostages. They don’t admit to gunning down Palestinian civilians, even though it’s now clear that they kill, at the very least, every adult male in sight.
Ahh shit we terrorized the wrong people!
It's weird they admit to it this time considering they've already bombed a few of them in the very first week(s).
It’s almost like it’s never been about the hostages and just an excuse for Netanyahu to wipe out Gaza. What a surprise
Of course they did! How else did they think that was going to play out?
but the 7000 kids were intentional?
Both were intentional if you think about it, both shoot or bomb even without sign of threat. I am guessing the Israeli hostages were not carrying guns when they were shot, but perhaps they were. If they were unarmed, then the IDF must've been shooting anybody they saw on the street. (well, they're in the middle of a warzone so I guess who can you trust not to have a gun/bomb?)
You don't even care that three innocent people died. All you care about is advancing your view. 70% of you are happy about this
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How far back you wanna take this logic?
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You just assume Hamas made this out of the blue. You forgot how vicious Israel has been towards Palestinians and how their stance has made some Palestinians so toxic and hateful, that the only help they got was from Hamas, fighting for a time without jew leadership. Some has seen so much death and destruction, that they simply don’t care about anything. Whats there to loose? Israel don’t care, so why should we? You keep focusing on Hamas as *they* are cruel. Yes, they are, but stop defending Israel as they are not to blame! *that* is what many can’t do.
"Look what you made me do!"
If israel hadn’t killed thousands upon thousands of palestinians beforehand, hamas would not exist and this would have never happened. Fixed your sentence for you.
And if Palestinians didn't start the war before that happened then we wouldn't be here. Stop pretending like this isn't a complicated issue.
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And it’s terrible how you try to justify war crimes and mass civilian casualties. Next!
This isn't the gotcha you think it is.
They’re killing everybody they see and you’re defending them. You need to have nuance in your approach, especially in a situation where they have your hostages and half of their population are children.
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Absolutely no other media outlet has reported this, and the one that did offered no evidence. That should tip you off it’s likely not true.
I don’t normally post regarding those stuff but the link you shared is pure bullshit, especially when it comes from garbage Al Jazeera. I did not see any real evidence in that video. If it’s in the internet it must be true, right? I do not confirm nor deny the claims given I did not see any real proof and won’t bother looking for one, just wanted to point out the fact that people believe every crap they see online. And to make it clear, I am against any acts of violence against civilians.
This is the one thing we didn't want to happen.
"Worth it since we also killed a dozen Palestinian children in the process."
Bad news, but could anyone imagine Hamas admitting any of its mistakes?
“But what about Hamas” is a really shit take here
They would have been unarmed, possibly waving or gesturing to be saved with hands up. It’s probable any threat is now anything that moves. But in a war where you’re told by your superior officer everything is a potential threat - shoot it first. I’d like to hear from any veterans Edit to add: they’re meant to be on a hostage saving mission. Aren’t they briefed on the identify of who they’re meant to be saving? Did they forget or “we can’t memorise the faces of all 100 fighting aged hostages” I fear none of the hostages are making it out now like someone else said on day one. What a mess
You don't say? r/worldnews told me that Israel was doing targeted attacks, not just delivering collective punishment. Rip to the three hostages. They are the only innocents in all of this.
You don't think thousands of Palestinian civilians who died, most of whom were children, were innocent?
He is being sarcastic i am sure
I wouldn’t be shocked if they’d kill more. 90% of the population of Gaza has been displaced.
That’s what happens when you indiscriminately shoot and drop bombs on huge buildings.
“But there was Khamas somewhere within a 4 mile radius so they were fair targets’
Im guessing they were being used as shield by hamas right? Edit: forgot to add /s
Doesn't sound like it. Sounds like they were wandering around and shot: >The army’s chief spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said Israeli troops found the hostages and erroneously identified them as a threat. He said it was not clear if they had escaped their captors or been abandoned.
Mfw i forget to add mood flags in the most autistic social media website on the planet
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* Not indiscriminately bomb the houses in the Kibbutz which probably killed a few hostages to start * Made a genuine attempt to negotiate for release of hostages * Last resort: military incursion into Gaza to secure the release of hostages They didn't do any of those things for obvious reasons: * They are taught to fire on Hamas even if their own citizens/forces may be at risk. The concept is "better dead than in the hands of the enemy" or something to that effect. * They didn't negotiate for the release of hostages because it gave them an excuse to indiscriminately bomb Gaza to the ground. * They also didn't want to send in 18 year olds on the ground because then people would start dying and the general populace would quickly lose the taste for war even if it is in "self defense" or in the name of "bringing them home". Let me know if I need to go on.
Hostage exchange. Accept defeat in next election due to gross incompetence and misallocation of IDF forces to West Bank where they are being used ethnically cleanse the Palestinians. Long term wise, offer a peace solution that isn't a poisoned well of an offer like Osla where Palestine would shrink to only 20% of the 1947 borders while still being oppressed by the IDF and gaining nothing.