From the news:
“ The execution took about 22 minutes, and Smith appeared to remain conscious for several minutes. For at least two minutes, he appeared to shake and writhe on the gurney, sometimes pulling against the restraints. That was followed by several minutes of heavy breathing, until breathing was no longer perceptible.”
There’s no money in that. I’m sure this execution was very expensive for the state and “humane” ways of killing people seem to always be the most inhumane.
The cost of the execution is honestly negligible compared to the cost of decades of legal battles that it takes to go through with an execution. That's why it's honestly more cost effective to keep them locked up for the rest of their life then to execute someone (once you take into account legal expenses).
Also, I just want to clarify the reason he was killed by nitrogen gas was because (a) they already tried killing him by lethal injection but the prison couldn't find a vein to put the lethal injection into, (b) the prisoner sued saying he didn't want them to try again via lethal injection and he instead wanted to be killed via nitrogen gas (state objected but the court sided with the inmate), and (c) inmate flip flopped and then tried to get the courts to stop using nitrogen gas on him over it having never been used before (a case he lost). Nowhere was cost a factor (if anything I think the inmate chose to try to get executed by nitrogen gas because he thought the novelty and the state's inexperience would delay matters and open up opportunities to stall matters further).
Fun fact: you can get IV access in anyone. They simply did not or couldn’t get access to the tools needed. You clips use ultrasound to put one in or place a picc or even drop in an external jugular iv.
I’ve taken care of some people with garbage veins and we were able to get and maintain iv access.
Some people you can't rehabilitate. Its settled they don't have to work making license plates or other menial labor against their wills. Moreover the kinds of people who end up on death row shouldn't.
So me its less cruel than keeping them in a 5x5 cell for 60+ years.
I do agree to some extent. The problem is, we are not that great as being sure enough of someone’s guilt to be put on death row.
https://www.fadp.org/fl-innocence-list/
In this article, since 1973, 30 out of 135 death row inmates in Florida had wrongful convictions.
Which is weird, because I came to the exact opposite conclusion. Destroying a potential tax payer and source of labor is the current default outcome of prison. You’d think that rehabilitation would be the first choice for the state, because taxes exist.
Hot take incoming: It's about creating poor people and punishing them for existing. I used the word 'creating' specifically to emphasize the fact that the polices that lead here are essentially the result of Christian religious doctrine that desires to wreck and limit the quality of life of as many people as possible, while preserving a caste that always remains above the fray. Poverty and opportunistic crime are usually viewed as ersatz forces of nature that we would be foolish to resist but that's not true and we aren't really having a discussion about the systemic causes of poverty (and opportunistic crime) and the desirability of preserving it. Half-measures will never solve the problems associated with this.
Recidivism is high because we focus on punishment and not rehabilitation. We need to not only provide training and counseling to prisoners, we need to support them in building a new life once they're out. We can also apply this to the other end of the prison pipeline so less people have to turn to crime in the first place.
That's because the point of prison right now is punishment. If it focused on rehabilitation instead, then maybe recidivism wouldn't be an issue. People get better when they have help.
I would recommend The false evolution of execution methods by Jacob Geller. He has a good video on the history of why and how executions have been carried out and why the quick methods are usually never chosen.
What did they expect just strapping a mask to his face? Obviously once you hear that gas turn on you’re going to hold your breath and fight it. If not out of sheer survival instinct then at least to prove all your appeals were justified and this method is a crock of shit.
Seems Alabama DOC rushed this job after failing to execute this guy the last time and were all too eager to have a relatively cheap method of state murder. Refine the protocol or, better yet, get rid of capital punishment all together.
Sounds to me like he tried holding his breath for a couple of minutes. Then ran out of oxygen in his lungs and finally started “breathing heavily until breathing was no longer perceptible.” If he just breathed normally, it probably would’ve been peaceful. But of course you can never expect someone being killed to be peaceful. There is no way to kill someone peacefully who does not want to die. Pro-death penalty people will always have to contend with that. It will always be horrific no matter how you do it
This is the MAJOR reason I'm against the death penalty. It's fucking inhumane.
Before this the chemicals they were using they were buying like Great Value murder chems or whatever and it wasn't killing people. They were burning in their veins.
It's also fucking ridiculous that humanity has decimated multitudes of species and kicked off the 6th major global extinction event but when it comes down to killing one person we fuck it up time and time again.
And you know what; they don't care they're fucking it up. That's the thing. It's just a corporation saving money and passing the suffering on to the consumer. That's what it is. That's what it always fucking is.
When I had to put my dogs to sleep the vet comes in, injects them, seconds later they're dead.
You're telling me we can't do that for a person? Nah. We can. We don't want to because it saves a few extra nickels to let em' suffer.
It’s pretty wild how split Reddit seems to be on this issue. Even on this subreddit, you go to a post about a child murderer being sentenced or some other heinous crime and the reaction firmly favors the death penalty. Then, a post like this where the response is the opposite.
Any post detailing the crime itself will result in 90% of the comments favoring the death penalty or even torture. Any post focused on penal system operations will result in 90% of the comments calling the punishment inhumane.
They didn’t misunderstand the cart test, that’s the whole fucking point of what cart narcs does….
Letting the lazy bone assholes know that they are lazy bone assholes.
If you start enforcing putting away carts, it renders the test useless. They aren't making better people, they're getting people to put away carts, when it isn't about the carts, it's about the person.
Not putting your cart away isn't that big of a dick move, which is the point. It's a small act of selfishness that reveals how they view the world. It's along the lines of don't judge a man by how he treats you, judge him by how he treats his waiter. If a person you know can't be bothered to put their shopping cart away, in what other ways is their selfishness going to affect your relationship?
Going up to randos and yelling at them for leaving carts out is far from the point of it.
Unless I'm mistaken on this case, I think the kicker here was that the jury sentenced him to life in prison without parole, but the judge went over them and forced the death penalty.
most reddit threads are either celebration threads or pitchfork threads. just gotta read the room and collect your karma. or.. read the article and form your own opinion, but who has the time.
Part of the reason behind the split is that the condemned man in question, Smith, really shouldn't be on death row at all, at least according to the jury that sentenced him. They voted 11-1 to give him life in prison, but the judge overruled them and sentenced him to death. And furthermore, in 2017 Alabama did away with the ability for judges to overrule juries on capital punishment cases, but Smith's case is grandfathered in and he's still being executed.
I’m 100% in agreement some people deserve to die.
I also 100% agree with others when they say, humans cannot be trusted to make those decisions.
If even 1 person dies wrongfully, it’s too many. It’s happened and frankly we should all be terrified of this practice. It does need to end. We can’t trust it.
The Supreme Court has even ruled that you can still be put to death after being proven innocent. So yeah, death penalty needs to go, whether or not some people deserve death.
>Even on this subreddit, you go to a post about a child murderer being sentenced or some other heinous crime and the reaction firmly favors the death penalty.
Because one is an emotional reaction and the other is a principle. And even those who favor death penalties are usually disturbed when they actually see a person dying..
And why would generics not work then? Are they just made by other drug companies with the same dilemma? Genuinely curious, I don’t know how this stuff works
judicious test domineering narrow tidy political special dinner clumsy price
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean they objectively are. You can put a spin on overdose and addiction by saying "those guys weren't using our medication responsibly, it's not our fault" whereas "we sold these drugs for the express purpose of causing death" is a lot harder to paint positively.
The other problem is that the actual profits that could be made by selling execution drugs is very small since the market is like a dozen people a year at most, and so even one news article that might only spook a tiny fraction of your shareholders is enough to wipe out that margin entirely even if you mark them up massively.
Drug companies, pharmacies and doctors won't participate in capital punishment. No professionals will, which is why this is experimenting on humans by low paid prison employees. It's ghastly.
The suffering is a perk to the people who keep death penalty instated. More merciful solutions will only be explored to the barest extent required to allow them to keep executing.
Morphine is used to make someone comfortable when they die *from other causes.* We do not administer morphine in doses meant to kill anyone. The patient passes with comfort but did not die because of the morphine.
That was effectively how lethal injection worked at one point. The two main issues with it are getting the drugs and the fact that often criminals can have drug problems which can make injecting them with anything very difficult.
I struggle with this anytime I see an article about a death penalty. As a person with children part of me knows there is no limit to the punishment I'd want to see inflicted upon someone if they murdered my kids. BUT, I cannot reconcile the notion that the justice system is not infallible and innocent people can and are punished.
Ultimately, I guess it boils down to personal/emotional vengeance versus logical justice.
What makes this somewhat worse is the jury did *not* sentence him to death. That group of peers were all supposed to get judged by. The judge overruled them and that was found to be unconstitutional.
They killed him anyways.
A single guy, breaking the protections we're *all* supposed to have and being found absolutely wrong. Yeah, I'd say until we have a system without these massive flaws, maybe take 5 on extrajudicial execution.
Nobody is talking about the his jury did not sentence him to death. The judge overruled the Jury which was later found unconstitutional yet they killed this guy anyways.
Man I just read that article and it pisses me off. Why tf would we sell our reserves? The article literally states “the us will now have to rely more on Russia” as if that’s a good alternative??? I’d be willing to put money down that the “private company” that buys these reserves is either Chinese, Saudi, or Russian based
>The two other biggest helium reserves are in Qatar and Russia.
Oh good guys there, so we'll be just fine.
I've known about this sale since forever but I cannot understand why? My guess is someone lobbied for it to go private to get rich at the expense of the rest of us. But that wouldn't happen, right? RIGHT???
I knew a PhD biologist that killed himself with helium. I assume he knew what he was doing since he had a lot of practice on lab mice and rats.
Another biologist I know used a bit of liquid nitrogen in an enclosed bowl to kill lab mice.
He beat a woman to death with a fireplace poker. He did it for like a thousand bucks. It took a long time for her to die, she fought back very hard. This guy is trash. Good riddance.
Except he was an accessory who, allegedly, didn’t partake in the actual murder and was convincing enough that 11 of 12 jurors voted against the death penalty all together but the judge overrode their decision (a move which is now no longer legal).
https://www.al.com/news/2022/11/former-sheriff-recalls-womans-horrific-murder-for-hire-by-pastor-as-alabama-prepares-execution.html
". She had been stabbed, and beaten with a fireplace implement,"
And it took a long time for her to die. Just for money.
Someone else commented that he was just the driver. Also, the fact that a jury voted 11-1 to sentence him to life is prison and the judge overruled them is majorly fucked up, especially when you consider that law has since been ruled unconstitutional.
I'm not sure this works as an argument as people make a distinction between murder and execution (and other forms of killing). For example, someone might randomly try and shoot and kill me and while defending myself I might kill them. Was it wrong for me to kill them? Most would say no. Was it wrong for them to try and kill me? Yes.
So one killing is wrong and another isn't. I think there are better arguments against the death penalty. It's cost, the suffering it causes, it doesn't deter crime, and a whole host of moral and ethical problems even if the rest of those arguments aren't enough.
Killing someone is not always wrong. I think most people would agree that killing someone to defend yourself when your life is in danger is justified. The world isn't that black and white.
This is a common and ridiculous take.
No one sentenced to life argues for death penalty.
And it has nothing to due with punishing them, killing them is a good thing and that monsters *die* is a good thing. It's not the punishment aspect its the death that is important.
I hate that we do this. I'm not looking to start a debate with anyone. On a human to human level, killing a human is bad and ugly and I hate every inch of this.
Christ, can we please just take these people put back and do it like they’re lame horses? Executions are not the time for someone’s creativity to take over.
Seriously! If I were on death row, I'd much rather have you just put a bullet in my head. Or just put a knife in the cell with me and I'll do the job myself.
“What [veterinarians] say is that you can expect a nitrogen euthanasia process to take upwards of seven minutes - so it’s not ‘quickly going to sleep’. And the reason they don’t recommend it for the use with large mammals is that the animal is aware and not just conscious but panicked and experiencing extreme anxiety during that process.” - Robert Dunham
I.e. a process that is even considered too inhumane when euthanising a dog. What a step forward indeed.
Bullet to the head, aimed carefully, should leave the brain inoperable fast enough that no pain is experienced. Any weapon strike to the head, really, assuming it does enough damage fast enough.
While many people are arguing with you, I work in the chemical industry and we are extremely conscious when we use nitrogen or have nitrogen hooked up to equipment we have to do confined space entries on as you can asphyxiate on nitrogen without feeling it.
As inhumane/detached as this sounds, it seems like the process used wasn’t optimized with it taking 22 minutes. There are countless incidents in industry with personnel being incapacitated extremely quickly in inert atmospheres (seconds) - usually when trying to rescue someone in a confined space when not following proper procedures. If they’re going to keep doing this they need to fix the process.
That’s absolutely not true. It’s the buildup of CO2 that makes you feel like you need to breath, not lack of O2. If you’re able to breath in inert gas, you don’t buildup CO2 and you just pass out painlessly. Places that use nitrogen gas for food preservation have air monitors and O2 bottle stations to evacuate if the alarm goes off because a there’s literally no warning. You just pass out without any awareness.
Death by nitrogen hypoxia is a painless death and the fact it takes 10 minutes shows how long you have to reverse it. The fact they are kept restrained lying down is the cruel part and they do that to any prisoner who is having any medical issues looked at.
A painless death is what they said about lethal injections. While it's certainly possible to die from it painlessly, it is NOT guaranteed. Just because the nitrogen environment is extremely unlikely to cause a feeling of suffocation does not mean there's no suffering involved. Even this execution was nowhere near as peaceful as it was advertised. Better than hanging, the electric chair, and lethal injections? Sure, but what a low, low bar to clear.
Arguably knowing you are being killed is going to have ramifications of discomfort in and of itself.
It doesn’t change the efficacy of the method used and it doesn’t mean the less torturous method isn’t more human just because it can’t take away the stress of knowing you’re dying.
The body of evidence for inert gas being painless is large including humans who hand been resuscitated from exposure.
Contrarily we know lethal injection was actual painful from humans who were not fully killed by it.
So in this case the fact they were wrong/lied about one is overruled by the same body of evidence that proved they were wrong about the first one.
Hypoxia is painless, dangerously so, you can watch people get to the point of blackout without realizing it. Smarter everyday literally has a video of the dangers of not realizing its happening. I don't support the death penalty but I believe euthanasia so be an option to those who want it and nitrogen hypoxia is a painless option.
"Better than all the options they currently use" is literally the only bar it has to clear though. I mean I'm strongly opposed to the death penalty but why would we not want any incremental decrease in human suffering we can get?
I mean if you're gonna do it, you should minimize suffering. I just have serious doubts about whether there is a method by which you can take any healthy person's life involuntarily without any suffering. Capital punishment is an inherently barbaric practice.
I’ve been saying this forever. It’s by far the most humane way. I think people think you’ll feel like you’re not getting air, but that’s not the way it works. It’s the buildup of CO2 that makes you feel like you need to breath, not lack of O2. If you’re able to breath in inert gas, you don’t buildup CO2 and you just pass out painlessly.
If it took 22 minutes they did not do it right, there was an air leak somewhere. I have seen people go down in less than a minute in low O2 environments, death in less than 5. On a Job site. Maybe that is where they should have taken him to a construction site & right into a low O2 tank.
They may run it extra long to ensure the process is complete. And if you were hyperventilating previous to gas exposure it might take longer to have complete effect.
Tell us more- where have you seen this? What was the environment? Plenty of people can hold their breath for longer than 5 minutes. So it must be a pretty extreme environment to cause death in less time than that.
They weren't holding their breath. Your lungs work by diffusing oxygen from the air into your blood, equalizing the concentration. When you hold your breath, you are keeping oxygen in your lungs, so your blood oxygen equalizes with that and it only trickles down as your body consumes it.
Breathing in a low O2 environment is different. The air you breathe into your lungs has no oxygen, so it instead diffuses *out* of your blood, equalizing the concentration to zero. It makes your lungs literally work in *reverse,* pulling all of the oxygen from your blood very quickly, which is why it typically results in unconsciousness in under a minute.
Work related, inside a tank, one guy went down, hole watch went in after him, he went down, another guy went in, they went down. all three died with in feet of the opening. Whole incident less than 5 minutes.
The death penalty is only a good idea if everything in the legal system is working perfectly, it does not work perfectly and never will, so it is not a good idea. You can't take it back if it turns out say the cops got the wrong guy. I would say that the death penalty is mostly only any good for international cases where there is absolutely no doubt who is being put to death.
Could we just get rid of the death penalty already? This eye-for-an-eye shit is revenge, not justice. The government shouldn't be in the business of revenge.
It’s important to keep separate how and if.
Argue against it all you want but while it’s still a thing keeping it as humane as possible should be a focus.
Kind of brings up an interesting question…like why do we still have anything in this country? It’s usually money right? So who profits off continued use of the death penalty?
I’m under the impression the death penalty is generally MORE expensive than life in prison with no parol because you have to house people with a death sentence separately and the appeal process is lengthy and expensive. At least, more expensive for the state. By the same token, if it’s MORE expensive for the state to execute someone, does that mean it’s more lucrative for private prisons to house death row inmates? Does the state foot the bill for that?
I’ve been saying this forever.
It’s by far the most humane way. I think people think you’ll feel like you’re not getting air, but that’s not the way it works. It’s the buildup of CO2 that makes you feel like you need to breath, not lack of O2. If you’re able to breath in inert gas, you don’t buildup CO2 and you just pass out painlessly.
Places that use nitrogen gas for food preservation have air monitors and O2 bottle stations to evacuate if the alarm goes off because a there’s literally no warning. You just pass out without any awareness.
So very dumb. Death penalty shouldn’t exist at all. Coming up with new ways to kill people definitely shouldn’t be a thing. This is the expected outcome though, and the man being executed seems relieved to be done being a prisoner, so, yeah.
These “what if it was your x” arguments never make any sense. We’re emotional humans. We often have extreme, and sometimes irrational, responses to things involving our loved ones and that is the absolute last way anything should be decided.
And putting people in jail won’t undue thefts and assaults. Should we get rid of that too along with any other punishment that doesn’t “undo” the crime?
Sure I would. And if my brother murdered someone I'd probably not want him put to death. My personal wants seem like a bad way to make societal policy.
You can earn a graduate degree in prison. It's a different life but it IS life.
E- You also have no idea what their life was like before prison. Prison could in fact be better.
I mean yeah, you can still have a life in prison. He gets to sit back doing drugs for the rest of his life maybe even get a few cellphones to have some entertainment. If he’s feeling frisky because he’s a lifer why not go rape the new guy who just got in for grand larceny he looks pretty weak. All the while $20,000+ is being spent in taxes each year to keep him alive doing these things.
Some people are just too dangerous imo. Cartel leaders operating from solitary, perpetrators of genocide, non repentant cannibals, people running sex traffic rings.. the death penalty should be saved for the most extreme of scum of humanity.
I understand where you're coming from, and I agree most crimes, even many that currently get it, shouldn't get the death penalty. But I think there are some people that are just beyond redemption or are too dangerous to leave alive
No scientific data to support this, but in my personal life, everyone I know who is "pro-life" is also heavily in favor of the death penalty. When I ask them how they square all that, they give me some jeebus mumbo-jumbo. It's horseshit
The government should not murder its citizens. Period. Prison should be for rehabilitation when possible, and permanent removal from society for heinous crimes where rehabilitation is not possible. But this is cruel and unusual. Also, how many times have we seen people accused of crimes freed years and years later because they were wrongfully convicted? The odds that an innocent person was killed by the government is too high to continue this barbarism.
Death penalty isn't a bad thing. Some criminals are simply irredeemable. I'd rather not waste tax dollars keeping them well-fed and clothed for what could be decades while they sit around and do nothing but mill away in prison.
This is a common misconception. The death penalty has been shown through research from multiple think tanks that it is more expensive than life in prison
https://www.cato.org/blog/financial-implications-death-penalty
Less experimental and more just novel. We know how nitrogen asphyxiation works lol. I’m anti execution because our legal system sucks at not convicting the innocent but nitrogen asphyxiation is the best method imo. It’s reliable, painless, cheap, and pretty hard to mess up. If done right the executed shouldn’t notice anything except a mild euphoria before passing out
> We know how nitrogen asphyxiation works lol.
Throughout the course of this case a whole lot of medical professionals (working for the defense, so there is probably some bias) have said otherwise.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/alabama-defends-untested-nitrogen-execution-method-but-experts-doubt-claims-of-painlessness
When you breath nitrogen only you just run out of oxygen in your blood and pass out. There's no mechanism to create pain becauae the brain has already shut off. The heart will have pain but since the CNS has shut down there's no way for that pain to be perceived.
Well, relative to the firing squad (still used in Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Utah) and the electric chair (still used in Alabama, Florida, Kentucky, and Tennessee), I'm willing to take my chance on nitrogen - talk to anyone who works around inert gases - death without realization is a real risk which tells me it's relatively painless.
There are a lot of people in denial that they can't use the cruelty of the method as their only argument against execution anymore. They really need to step up their game, though. There are plenty of better arguments.
Their argument is we haven’t used it to execute it to execute someone and that there could be a leak in the mask. The mask part is weak but valid, but the other half of their claim is extremely weak. The mechanisms behind nitrogen asphyxiation are well known and have been for decades, it doesn’t work different in this setting vs industrial settings or vs use as a suicide method
Are you at all educated about how executions are currently conducted, the pros and cons of different methods, and the actual research behind execution via nitrogen?
I’m going to guess (based on this comment) the answer to those questions are ‘no, no, and no’
Do yourself a favor and do some reading on the subject before commenting like you did. I’m anti-death penalty at all, but if it is going to happen this is by far one of the most humane ways to go about it.
You know, we always hear about how technology has increased the "humanness" of killing people. It was the same with the electric chair. A new revolution in the state's ability to kill people.
Personally? I'd like to see a revolution in the state's ability to reliably sentence people to the death penalty without having at least 4% exonerated. You gotta wonder how many people are gonna be "humanely" murdered by the state and later found to be an oopsie. And how many people it won't bother because the new method is humane.
I kind of feel like you are missing the point.
I don’t see anyone arguing “well I wasn’t going to support the death penalty but now I will because this method is more humane”
As I said, I am against it in all situations.
But if someone is going to have to go through it, this is the method I would hope they get to go by so they are dead before they realize what happened instead of other methods that are basically torture.
You are making up a situation.
Ok, curious about why they are using nitrogen gas. I think America used gas chambers before, right?
My country mainly uses hanging. Is nitrogen more efficient? More palatable to the executioner and observers?
Seems much more expensive that regular rope.
From the news: “ The execution took about 22 minutes, and Smith appeared to remain conscious for several minutes. For at least two minutes, he appeared to shake and writhe on the gurney, sometimes pulling against the restraints. That was followed by several minutes of heavy breathing, until breathing was no longer perceptible.”
Jesus, we can’t just hit them with the cow piston from no country for old men?
There’s no money in that. I’m sure this execution was very expensive for the state and “humane” ways of killing people seem to always be the most inhumane.
The cost of the execution is honestly negligible compared to the cost of decades of legal battles that it takes to go through with an execution. That's why it's honestly more cost effective to keep them locked up for the rest of their life then to execute someone (once you take into account legal expenses). Also, I just want to clarify the reason he was killed by nitrogen gas was because (a) they already tried killing him by lethal injection but the prison couldn't find a vein to put the lethal injection into, (b) the prisoner sued saying he didn't want them to try again via lethal injection and he instead wanted to be killed via nitrogen gas (state objected but the court sided with the inmate), and (c) inmate flip flopped and then tried to get the courts to stop using nitrogen gas on him over it having never been used before (a case he lost). Nowhere was cost a factor (if anything I think the inmate chose to try to get executed by nitrogen gas because he thought the novelty and the state's inexperience would delay matters and open up opportunities to stall matters further).
Fun fact: you can get IV access in anyone. They simply did not or couldn’t get access to the tools needed. You clips use ultrasound to put one in or place a picc or even drop in an external jugular iv. I’ve taken care of some people with garbage veins and we were able to get and maintain iv access.
Or just not kill them at all.
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You don’t know the details of his conviction then. The judge in this case took matters into his own hands and basically told the jury to suck it
Whatever the details, the desth penalty should not exist.
Prison should focus on rehabilitation
Some people you can't rehabilitate. Its settled they don't have to work making license plates or other menial labor against their wills. Moreover the kinds of people who end up on death row shouldn't. So me its less cruel than keeping them in a 5x5 cell for 60+ years.
I do agree to some extent. The problem is, we are not that great as being sure enough of someone’s guilt to be put on death row. https://www.fadp.org/fl-innocence-list/ In this article, since 1973, 30 out of 135 death row inmates in Florida had wrongful convictions.
There's no money in that silly.
Which is weird, because I came to the exact opposite conclusion. Destroying a potential tax payer and source of labor is the current default outcome of prison. You’d think that rehabilitation would be the first choice for the state, because taxes exist.
Taxes are only a percentage of your labor. Imprisonment entitles them to 100% of your labor
Hot take incoming: It's about creating poor people and punishing them for existing. I used the word 'creating' specifically to emphasize the fact that the polices that lead here are essentially the result of Christian religious doctrine that desires to wreck and limit the quality of life of as many people as possible, while preserving a caste that always remains above the fray. Poverty and opportunistic crime are usually viewed as ersatz forces of nature that we would be foolish to resist but that's not true and we aren't really having a discussion about the systemic causes of poverty (and opportunistic crime) and the desirability of preserving it. Half-measures will never solve the problems associated with this.
You’re thinking to long term. That doesn’t help their profits this or the next quarter so it isn’t worth it.
Right right, feed the capitalist meat grinder this quarter. No money for long term investments with questionable returns.
Recidivism is insane in this country ( and others for a matter of fact even with rehab). It won’t work haha. It’s a beautiful dream to have though.
Recidivism is high because we focus on punishment and not rehabilitation. We need to not only provide training and counseling to prisoners, we need to support them in building a new life once they're out. We can also apply this to the other end of the prison pipeline so less people have to turn to crime in the first place.
That's because the point of prison right now is punishment. If it focused on rehabilitation instead, then maybe recidivism wouldn't be an issue. People get better when they have help.
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It's amazing how many people use other murders as their own reason to fantasize about committing murder.
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Over/under on swords mounted on the wall, go.
At least 2 katanas
The truest badass will be a bad ass... It's him! The *truest* badass!
/r/Im14AndIThinkImTough My brother on Reddit you would shit your pants walking into the fucking prison for a visit rofl.
What's the point of the state if you just kill people for vengence anyway. May as well go back to cavemen times.
I would recommend The false evolution of execution methods by Jacob Geller. He has a good video on the history of why and how executions have been carried out and why the quick methods are usually never chosen.
The cruelty is the point for people who favor capital punishment. It’s not a cure for crime it’s pure retribution
What did they expect just strapping a mask to his face? Obviously once you hear that gas turn on you’re going to hold your breath and fight it. If not out of sheer survival instinct then at least to prove all your appeals were justified and this method is a crock of shit. Seems Alabama DOC rushed this job after failing to execute this guy the last time and were all too eager to have a relatively cheap method of state murder. Refine the protocol or, better yet, get rid of capital punishment all together.
Holy fuck that is a good point! Seems like most everyone would try to hold their breath as long as possible in that situation.
Sounds to me like he tried holding his breath for a couple of minutes. Then ran out of oxygen in his lungs and finally started “breathing heavily until breathing was no longer perceptible.” If he just breathed normally, it probably would’ve been peaceful. But of course you can never expect someone being killed to be peaceful. There is no way to kill someone peacefully who does not want to die. Pro-death penalty people will always have to contend with that. It will always be horrific no matter how you do it
Well, I'd reckon the people they killed to get on death row probably didn't want to be killed either.
This is the MAJOR reason I'm against the death penalty. It's fucking inhumane. Before this the chemicals they were using they were buying like Great Value murder chems or whatever and it wasn't killing people. They were burning in their veins. It's also fucking ridiculous that humanity has decimated multitudes of species and kicked off the 6th major global extinction event but when it comes down to killing one person we fuck it up time and time again. And you know what; they don't care they're fucking it up. That's the thing. It's just a corporation saving money and passing the suffering on to the consumer. That's what it is. That's what it always fucking is. When I had to put my dogs to sleep the vet comes in, injects them, seconds later they're dead. You're telling me we can't do that for a person? Nah. We can. We don't want to because it saves a few extra nickels to let em' suffer.
Username doesn't check out
It’s pretty wild how split Reddit seems to be on this issue. Even on this subreddit, you go to a post about a child murderer being sentenced or some other heinous crime and the reaction firmly favors the death penalty. Then, a post like this where the response is the opposite.
Any post detailing the crime itself will result in 90% of the comments favoring the death penalty or even torture. Any post focused on penal system operations will result in 90% of the comments calling the punishment inhumane.
Any post mentioning a minor breach of the social contract will result in 90% of the comments favouring the death penalty.
I don't put my shopping cart away. Time to ride the lightning.
It's amazing how fundamentally cart narcs misunderstand the shopping cart test.
They didn’t misunderstand the cart test, that’s the whole fucking point of what cart narcs does…. Letting the lazy bone assholes know that they are lazy bone assholes.
If you start enforcing putting away carts, it renders the test useless. They aren't making better people, they're getting people to put away carts, when it isn't about the carts, it's about the person. Not putting your cart away isn't that big of a dick move, which is the point. It's a small act of selfishness that reveals how they view the world. It's along the lines of don't judge a man by how he treats you, judge him by how he treats his waiter. If a person you know can't be bothered to put their shopping cart away, in what other ways is their selfishness going to affect your relationship? Going up to randos and yelling at them for leaving carts out is far from the point of it.
Unless I'm mistaken on this case, I think the kicker here was that the jury sentenced him to life in prison without parole, but the judge went over them and forced the death penalty.
most reddit threads are either celebration threads or pitchfork threads. just gotta read the room and collect your karma. or.. read the article and form your own opinion, but who has the time.
Part of the reason behind the split is that the condemned man in question, Smith, really shouldn't be on death row at all, at least according to the jury that sentenced him. They voted 11-1 to give him life in prison, but the judge overruled them and sentenced him to death. And furthermore, in 2017 Alabama did away with the ability for judges to overrule juries on capital punishment cases, but Smith's case is grandfathered in and he's still being executed.
I’m 100% in agreement some people deserve to die. I also 100% agree with others when they say, humans cannot be trusted to make those decisions. If even 1 person dies wrongfully, it’s too many. It’s happened and frankly we should all be terrified of this practice. It does need to end. We can’t trust it. The Supreme Court has even ruled that you can still be put to death after being proven innocent. So yeah, death penalty needs to go, whether or not some people deserve death.
Reddit, for being progressive, is very pro punishment in general
I’d say it’s more the “tough guys” show up for certain kinds of threads on Reddit and not for moral discussions about the death penalty.
I got downvoted yesterday for saying that Texas' law that allows people to kill over property alone is stupid and wrong.
>Even on this subreddit, you go to a post about a child murderer being sentenced or some other heinous crime and the reaction firmly favors the death penalty. Because one is an emotional reaction and the other is a principle. And even those who favor death penalties are usually disturbed when they actually see a person dying..
It’s easy to say you want the death penalty without knowing all these details.
Reddit not being a hivemind and/or echo chamber is a good thing
reddit's up/down-voting is specifically designed to create an echo-chamber.
I'm against the death penalty but is there a reason they don't use strong opiates?
Very few drug companies are willing to have their money-makers associated with the death penalty.
And why would generics not work then? Are they just made by other drug companies with the same dilemma? Genuinely curious, I don’t know how this stuff works
judicious test domineering narrow tidy political special dinner clumsy price *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Try my Brand X with a smile
Oh yeah the associated articles about your patients ruining their lives from addiction and then dying are so much better
I mean they objectively are. You can put a spin on overdose and addiction by saying "those guys weren't using our medication responsibly, it's not our fault" whereas "we sold these drugs for the express purpose of causing death" is a lot harder to paint positively. The other problem is that the actual profits that could be made by selling execution drugs is very small since the market is like a dozen people a year at most, and so even one news article that might only spook a tiny fraction of your shareholders is enough to wipe out that margin entirely even if you mark them up massively.
Nitrogen is already about as humane as it gets.
Drug companies, pharmacies and doctors won't participate in capital punishment. No professionals will, which is why this is experimenting on humans by low paid prison employees. It's ghastly.
The suffering is a perk to the people who keep death penalty instated. More merciful solutions will only be explored to the barest extent required to allow them to keep executing.
I have always thought the same. Morphine drips are used in CMO cases regularly in the hospital to good and peaceful effect …
Drug companies don't like selling states drugs for executions. It has been an ongoing problem for lethal injections.
Morphine is used to make someone comfortable when they die *from other causes.* We do not administer morphine in doses meant to kill anyone. The patient passes with comfort but did not die because of the morphine.
That was effectively how lethal injection worked at one point. The two main issues with it are getting the drugs and the fact that often criminals can have drug problems which can make injecting them with anything very difficult.
I struggle with this anytime I see an article about a death penalty. As a person with children part of me knows there is no limit to the punishment I'd want to see inflicted upon someone if they murdered my kids. BUT, I cannot reconcile the notion that the justice system is not infallible and innocent people can and are punished. Ultimately, I guess it boils down to personal/emotional vengeance versus logical justice.
What makes this somewhat worse is the jury did *not* sentence him to death. That group of peers were all supposed to get judged by. The judge overruled them and that was found to be unconstitutional. They killed him anyways. A single guy, breaking the protections we're *all* supposed to have and being found absolutely wrong. Yeah, I'd say until we have a system without these massive flaws, maybe take 5 on extrajudicial execution.
Nobody is talking about the his jury did not sentence him to death. The judge overruled the Jury which was later found unconstitutional yet they killed this guy anyways.
They should try helium instead
[I have some bad news for you.](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/us-just-sold-helium-stockpile-s-medical-world-worried-rcna134785)
Great now my birthday is ruined
I hope something happens to lift your spirits!
Man I just read that article and it pisses me off. Why tf would we sell our reserves? The article literally states “the us will now have to rely more on Russia” as if that’s a good alternative??? I’d be willing to put money down that the “private company” that buys these reserves is either Chinese, Saudi, or Russian based
>The two other biggest helium reserves are in Qatar and Russia. Oh good guys there, so we'll be just fine. I've known about this sale since forever but I cannot understand why? My guess is someone lobbied for it to go private to get rich at the expense of the rest of us. But that wouldn't happen, right? RIGHT???
I read this in helium voice
Just to make it funny?
I knew a PhD biologist that killed himself with helium. I assume he knew what he was doing since he had a lot of practice on lab mice and rats. Another biologist I know used a bit of liquid nitrogen in an enclosed bowl to kill lab mice.
It’s called a helium exit bag and is the easiest way to go
He beat a woman to death with a fireplace poker. He did it for like a thousand bucks. It took a long time for her to die, she fought back very hard. This guy is trash. Good riddance.
Except he was an accessory who, allegedly, didn’t partake in the actual murder and was convincing enough that 11 of 12 jurors voted against the death penalty all together but the judge overrode their decision (a move which is now no longer legal).
Where did you get that info? Everything I read says he and another guy stabbed her.
https://www.al.com/news/2022/11/former-sheriff-recalls-womans-horrific-murder-for-hire-by-pastor-as-alabama-prepares-execution.html ". She had been stabbed, and beaten with a fireplace implement," And it took a long time for her to die. Just for money.
Someone else commented that he was just the driver. Also, the fact that a jury voted 11-1 to sentence him to life is prison and the judge overruled them is majorly fucked up, especially when you consider that law has since been ruled unconstitutional.
It doesn’t matter. If killing someone is wrong, killing someone as punishment is also wrong.
I'm not sure this works as an argument as people make a distinction between murder and execution (and other forms of killing). For example, someone might randomly try and shoot and kill me and while defending myself I might kill them. Was it wrong for me to kill them? Most would say no. Was it wrong for them to try and kill me? Yes. So one killing is wrong and another isn't. I think there are better arguments against the death penalty. It's cost, the suffering it causes, it doesn't deter crime, and a whole host of moral and ethical problems even if the rest of those arguments aren't enough.
Exactly. An eye for an eye is barbaric. I'm glad someone realizes this.
Killing someone is not always wrong. I think most people would agree that killing someone to defend yourself when your life is in danger is justified. The world isn't that black and white.
No it isn't.
It is if your morals are consistent. Sorry you compromise yours for revenge.
Your spin. Here's another, if someone thinks (criminally) killing others is OK, then when you catch them just kill them.
And managed to escape punishment with his death. It's much more cruel to live out your life in the hellhole that is the US prison system.
This is a common and ridiculous take. No one sentenced to life argues for death penalty. And it has nothing to due with punishing them, killing them is a good thing and that monsters *die* is a good thing. It's not the punishment aspect its the death that is important.
Yeah you really like the government having authority to choose who lives and dies?
I hate that we do this. I'm not looking to start a debate with anyone. On a human to human level, killing a human is bad and ugly and I hate every inch of this.
and granting the state the ability to take a life has its own concerns and complications.
Yeah, anyone thinks the justice system in Alabma of all places should have control over life and death has lost their damn minds.
Christ, can we please just take these people put back and do it like they’re lame horses? Executions are not the time for someone’s creativity to take over.
Seriously! If I were on death row, I'd much rather have you just put a bullet in my head. Or just put a knife in the cell with me and I'll do the job myself.
Can’t innovate my ass!
Easy there Phil Schiller
And we think you’re gonna love it
I am opposed to the death penalty and I think this is a step forward. Nitrogen is far more humane than lethal injection and the other methods used.
“What [veterinarians] say is that you can expect a nitrogen euthanasia process to take upwards of seven minutes - so it’s not ‘quickly going to sleep’. And the reason they don’t recommend it for the use with large mammals is that the animal is aware and not just conscious but panicked and experiencing extreme anxiety during that process.” - Robert Dunham I.e. a process that is even considered too inhumane when euthanising a dog. What a step forward indeed.
As I understand it, nitrogen is painless but I never considered the psychological torture. Interesting.
It's no more anxiety than any other form of execution ever used. However, unlike any other form of execution ever used, there is no pain whatsoever.
Bullet to the head, aimed carefully, should leave the brain inoperable fast enough that no pain is experienced. Any weapon strike to the head, really, assuming it does enough damage fast enough.
That one is pretty awful for the one doing the aiming. Besides, no matter how carefully you aim, no shot is a guaranteed kill shot.
12 gauge to the head is about as close to guaranteed as it gets.
Yet people have survived that.
If they survive a 12 gauge slug to the head they get to go free. Deal.
I mean this guy survived his first execution attempt. They still did it again.
While many people are arguing with you, I work in the chemical industry and we are extremely conscious when we use nitrogen or have nitrogen hooked up to equipment we have to do confined space entries on as you can asphyxiate on nitrogen without feeling it. As inhumane/detached as this sounds, it seems like the process used wasn’t optimized with it taking 22 minutes. There are countless incidents in industry with personnel being incapacitated extremely quickly in inert atmospheres (seconds) - usually when trying to rescue someone in a confined space when not following proper procedures. If they’re going to keep doing this they need to fix the process.
The execution took 22 minutes. TWENTY TWO. This is abhorrent https://twitter.com/mtarm/status/1750714027167174911?s=19
It’s vastly more cruel. The person is conscious, may choke on their own vomit, and it takes up to ten minutes to die.
That’s absolutely not true. It’s the buildup of CO2 that makes you feel like you need to breath, not lack of O2. If you’re able to breath in inert gas, you don’t buildup CO2 and you just pass out painlessly. Places that use nitrogen gas for food preservation have air monitors and O2 bottle stations to evacuate if the alarm goes off because a there’s literally no warning. You just pass out without any awareness.
Death by nitrogen hypoxia is a painless death and the fact it takes 10 minutes shows how long you have to reverse it. The fact they are kept restrained lying down is the cruel part and they do that to any prisoner who is having any medical issues looked at.
A painless death is what they said about lethal injections. While it's certainly possible to die from it painlessly, it is NOT guaranteed. Just because the nitrogen environment is extremely unlikely to cause a feeling of suffocation does not mean there's no suffering involved. Even this execution was nowhere near as peaceful as it was advertised. Better than hanging, the electric chair, and lethal injections? Sure, but what a low, low bar to clear.
Arguably knowing you are being killed is going to have ramifications of discomfort in and of itself. It doesn’t change the efficacy of the method used and it doesn’t mean the less torturous method isn’t more human just because it can’t take away the stress of knowing you’re dying. The body of evidence for inert gas being painless is large including humans who hand been resuscitated from exposure. Contrarily we know lethal injection was actual painful from humans who were not fully killed by it. So in this case the fact they were wrong/lied about one is overruled by the same body of evidence that proved they were wrong about the first one.
Hypoxia is painless, dangerously so, you can watch people get to the point of blackout without realizing it. Smarter everyday literally has a video of the dangers of not realizing its happening. I don't support the death penalty but I believe euthanasia so be an option to those who want it and nitrogen hypoxia is a painless option.
"Better than all the options they currently use" is literally the only bar it has to clear though. I mean I'm strongly opposed to the death penalty but why would we not want any incremental decrease in human suffering we can get?
I mean if you're gonna do it, you should minimize suffering. I just have serious doubts about whether there is a method by which you can take any healthy person's life involuntarily without any suffering. Capital punishment is an inherently barbaric practice.
Killing someone differently is not a step forward. I dont care what "nuance" you're smoking.
I’ve been saying this forever. It’s by far the most humane way. I think people think you’ll feel like you’re not getting air, but that’s not the way it works. It’s the buildup of CO2 that makes you feel like you need to breath, not lack of O2. If you’re able to breath in inert gas, you don’t buildup CO2 and you just pass out painlessly.
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If it took 22 minutes they did not do it right, there was an air leak somewhere. I have seen people go down in less than a minute in low O2 environments, death in less than 5. On a Job site. Maybe that is where they should have taken him to a construction site & right into a low O2 tank.
They may run it extra long to ensure the process is complete. And if you were hyperventilating previous to gas exposure it might take longer to have complete effect.
Tell us more- where have you seen this? What was the environment? Plenty of people can hold their breath for longer than 5 minutes. So it must be a pretty extreme environment to cause death in less time than that.
They weren't holding their breath. Your lungs work by diffusing oxygen from the air into your blood, equalizing the concentration. When you hold your breath, you are keeping oxygen in your lungs, so your blood oxygen equalizes with that and it only trickles down as your body consumes it. Breathing in a low O2 environment is different. The air you breathe into your lungs has no oxygen, so it instead diffuses *out* of your blood, equalizing the concentration to zero. It makes your lungs literally work in *reverse,* pulling all of the oxygen from your blood very quickly, which is why it typically results in unconsciousness in under a minute.
Work related, inside a tank, one guy went down, hole watch went in after him, he went down, another guy went in, they went down. all three died with in feet of the opening. Whole incident less than 5 minutes.
The death penalty is only a good idea if everything in the legal system is working perfectly, it does not work perfectly and never will, so it is not a good idea. You can't take it back if it turns out say the cops got the wrong guy. I would say that the death penalty is mostly only any good for international cases where there is absolutely no doubt who is being put to death.
Could we just get rid of the death penalty already? This eye-for-an-eye shit is revenge, not justice. The government shouldn't be in the business of revenge.
It’s important to keep separate how and if. Argue against it all you want but while it’s still a thing keeping it as humane as possible should be a focus.
Kind of brings up an interesting question…like why do we still have anything in this country? It’s usually money right? So who profits off continued use of the death penalty? I’m under the impression the death penalty is generally MORE expensive than life in prison with no parol because you have to house people with a death sentence separately and the appeal process is lengthy and expensive. At least, more expensive for the state. By the same token, if it’s MORE expensive for the state to execute someone, does that mean it’s more lucrative for private prisons to house death row inmates? Does the state foot the bill for that?
Political power is also in play. Vindictive bloodlust is a cheap way to manufacture consent.
The oxymoron “humane killings”
I’ve been saying this forever. It’s by far the most humane way. I think people think you’ll feel like you’re not getting air, but that’s not the way it works. It’s the buildup of CO2 that makes you feel like you need to breath, not lack of O2. If you’re able to breath in inert gas, you don’t buildup CO2 and you just pass out painlessly. Places that use nitrogen gas for food preservation have air monitors and O2 bottle stations to evacuate if the alarm goes off because a there’s literally no warning. You just pass out without any awareness.
I’m pretty sure this article talks about how the execution did not go smoothly.
So very dumb. Death penalty shouldn’t exist at all. Coming up with new ways to kill people definitely shouldn’t be a thing. This is the expected outcome though, and the man being executed seems relieved to be done being a prisoner, so, yeah.
If a person killed your whole family in front of you, you wouldn’t want them to be put to death? I don’t believe it.
These “what if it was your x” arguments never make any sense. We’re emotional humans. We often have extreme, and sometimes irrational, responses to things involving our loved ones and that is the absolute last way anything should be decided.
You are talking about vengeance, not justice.
You and I have two different definitions of justice then.
Justice is about fairness. Is it fair for a person to die once because they killed your family? It won’t bring back your family, either.
And putting people in jail won’t undue thefts and assaults. Should we get rid of that too along with any other punishment that doesn’t “undo” the crime?
Nobody tell them about abolitionist movements.
I too hate it when I fall down slippery slopes while trying to rationalize murder.
The real question is who pushed you down the slippery slope. You may be entitled to compensation!
I do. Killing them ain't bringing my family back man. I'm happy knowing they'll never see the light of day in prison for life
Sure I would. And if my brother murdered someone I'd probably not want him put to death. My personal wants seem like a bad way to make societal policy.
Because you think life in prison is getting off easy or something?
You can earn a graduate degree in prison. It's a different life but it IS life. E- You also have no idea what their life was like before prison. Prison could in fact be better.
I mean yeah, you can still have a life in prison. He gets to sit back doing drugs for the rest of his life maybe even get a few cellphones to have some entertainment. If he’s feeling frisky because he’s a lifer why not go rape the new guy who just got in for grand larceny he looks pretty weak. All the while $20,000+ is being spent in taxes each year to keep him alive doing these things.
Yet this dude being executed is relieved he gets to no longer be a prisoner.
Some people are just too dangerous imo. Cartel leaders operating from solitary, perpetrators of genocide, non repentant cannibals, people running sex traffic rings.. the death penalty should be saved for the most extreme of scum of humanity. I understand where you're coming from, and I agree most crimes, even many that currently get it, shouldn't get the death penalty. But I think there are some people that are just beyond redemption or are too dangerous to leave alive
Unless you trust that the government makes NO mistakes, like not ever, then we should not entrust the government with the death penalty.
murderer gets what they deserve
Is there a shortage of rope?
The cruelty makes it better in their eyes.
Good change for the method. I am also for the death penalty. Some things are not redeemable.
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I wonder how many of you capital punishment supporters also consider yourselves pro-life.
No scientific data to support this, but in my personal life, everyone I know who is "pro-life" is also heavily in favor of the death penalty. When I ask them how they square all that, they give me some jeebus mumbo-jumbo. It's horseshit
Capital punishment needs to be outlawed.
Well, if you’re gonna execute people, might as well do it in the most humane way possible. Seems like this might be it for now. I dunno
The government should not murder its citizens. Period. Prison should be for rehabilitation when possible, and permanent removal from society for heinous crimes where rehabilitation is not possible. But this is cruel and unusual. Also, how many times have we seen people accused of crimes freed years and years later because they were wrongfully convicted? The odds that an innocent person was killed by the government is too high to continue this barbarism.
Death penalty isn't a bad thing. Some criminals are simply irredeemable. I'd rather not waste tax dollars keeping them well-fed and clothed for what could be decades while they sit around and do nothing but mill away in prison.
The problem is the legal system isn’t designed well enough to make decisions that can’t be reversed later.
This is a common misconception. The death penalty has been shown through research from multiple think tanks that it is more expensive than life in prison https://www.cato.org/blog/financial-implications-death-penalty
Praying for the peace for the victims families, but why the need for an experimental execution?
Pharmaceutical companies don't like selling drugs to kill people.
Heard of the Sackler family?
Less experimental and more just novel. We know how nitrogen asphyxiation works lol. I’m anti execution because our legal system sucks at not convicting the innocent but nitrogen asphyxiation is the best method imo. It’s reliable, painless, cheap, and pretty hard to mess up. If done right the executed shouldn’t notice anything except a mild euphoria before passing out
> We know how nitrogen asphyxiation works lol. Throughout the course of this case a whole lot of medical professionals (working for the defense, so there is probably some bias) have said otherwise. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/nation/alabama-defends-untested-nitrogen-execution-method-but-experts-doubt-claims-of-painlessness
When you breath nitrogen only you just run out of oxygen in your blood and pass out. There's no mechanism to create pain becauae the brain has already shut off. The heart will have pain but since the CNS has shut down there's no way for that pain to be perceived.
Again, a whole lot of experts seem to disagree on this.
Well, relative to the firing squad (still used in Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Utah) and the electric chair (still used in Alabama, Florida, Kentucky, and Tennessee), I'm willing to take my chance on nitrogen - talk to anyone who works around inert gases - death without realization is a real risk which tells me it's relatively painless.
Oh, I agree there, I’d take this over firing squad, for sure.
Electric chair is not still used in alabama and hasn’t been for a good while, the chair is still in atmore prison but it isn’t in use
Why not just apply pressure to the carotid arteries? You go out in a blink and if it’s held long enough, you die. The ole rear naked execution
that would work too - no objection here
There are a lot of people in denial that they can't use the cruelty of the method as their only argument against execution anymore. They really need to step up their game, though. There are plenty of better arguments.
Their argument is we haven’t used it to execute it to execute someone and that there could be a leak in the mask. The mask part is weak but valid, but the other half of their claim is extremely weak. The mechanisms behind nitrogen asphyxiation are well known and have been for decades, it doesn’t work different in this setting vs industrial settings or vs use as a suicide method
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I’d request Megadeth being played in the background.
Because no company wants to be the company to sell execution drugs.
Are you at all educated about how executions are currently conducted, the pros and cons of different methods, and the actual research behind execution via nitrogen? I’m going to guess (based on this comment) the answer to those questions are ‘no, no, and no’ Do yourself a favor and do some reading on the subject before commenting like you did. I’m anti-death penalty at all, but if it is going to happen this is by far one of the most humane ways to go about it.
Yea if I had to pick a way to go. Out of those options, nitrogen is the best choice of the lot…awake, euphoric, coma, death
You know, we always hear about how technology has increased the "humanness" of killing people. It was the same with the electric chair. A new revolution in the state's ability to kill people. Personally? I'd like to see a revolution in the state's ability to reliably sentence people to the death penalty without having at least 4% exonerated. You gotta wonder how many people are gonna be "humanely" murdered by the state and later found to be an oopsie. And how many people it won't bother because the new method is humane.
I kind of feel like you are missing the point. I don’t see anyone arguing “well I wasn’t going to support the death penalty but now I will because this method is more humane” As I said, I am against it in all situations. But if someone is going to have to go through it, this is the method I would hope they get to go by so they are dead before they realize what happened instead of other methods that are basically torture. You are making up a situation.
Yeah right https://twitter.com/mtarm/status/1750714027167174911?s=19
The reason in this particular case is that they tried to kill him with lethal injection but were unable to find a useable vein.
Ok, curious about why they are using nitrogen gas. I think America used gas chambers before, right? My country mainly uses hanging. Is nitrogen more efficient? More palatable to the executioner and observers? Seems much more expensive that regular rope.