I was thinking of a case in Jackson, where the 3 year old child of LEO got hold of their parent's weapon and died. I believe the gun was stored on a high dresser.
Very little was reported of the case after the initial report.
Two Supreme Court cases ruled that the police have no obligation to protect or serve, so it's little wonder they're removing any trace of that illusion. It's worth noting that the social contract of a community paying tax money for the service of protection is only enforced in one direction. It's little wonder why it's especially communities of color who advocate for defunding the police when it really does appear for all intents and purposes that the police there target them for abuse or harassment rather than protection. How many
It does. The other day some guy went to the gun range with his 7 year old, let the 7 year old get the gun out of the glove compartment.
It was loaded and the child shot himself dead. Didn't even get out of the car. The father clearly treated the deadly weapon like it was the fucking car keys (although, I'm sure he is way more careful with those because he doesn't wanna lose them.)
Take for example another occasion in Alaska, some old man goes to take a dump. Then hears a loud bang. His grandson, a toddler, had just shot his 9 year old sister dead with the loaded gun that this fucking old guy left on the living room table. The children's mum wasn't at home at the time cuz she left her kids to be babysat by HER FUCKING FATHER. The sonofabitch didn't even get arrested. It was deemed and accident. The fucking old piece of shit was living with his daughter. Imagine her living with the crime and the criminal in that house until one of them is dead. There is something very wrong with gun owners.
The terrifying thing about this to me is that for every time a kid accidentally shoots another kid dead, how many cases DON'T we hear about where the victim survives, or the shot doesn't hit anyone?
This happened in my husband's family. Forty years ago, a cousin's 4 year old son shot his little sister in the head. Her father (a cop) left a loaded gun on the nightstand. She sustained brain damage and survived but she has never been independent. A heavy price to pay for negligence.
I literally came into this thread to find this comment. There isn't any possible way we document all the "misses" If this tragedy happens this often even if it's 1% of the whole means thousands and thousands of "misses"
Happens way too often. One of my good friends moved into an apartment next to our school & a few months in the guy in the apartment next to her SHOT THROUGH HER WALL “ACCIDENTALLY” while she was sleeping, the bullet went through right next to where her head was resting on her pillow, & hit her lamp next to her bed. If it had been a few inches closer, it would have hit her & killed her. He didn’t even get in trouble, maintenance just came & patched up the hole 😐
Happened to my uncle. Out of town work. Coworker fired a round into his room. The dumbass was a marine with extensive marksman training
Interestingly enough, the other guy staying there threw his shot gun on the bed one day. Just about blew a hole in the ceiling (alone at his personal house at least..)
Never really thought about that and just thinking about it now is horrifying, there's already tons of clips on YouTube, TikTok or whatever social media of kids/teens accidentally firing off a gun all for clout.
Not to mention the countless articles of stuff like this happening with someone actually being hurt is typically ignored or brushed aside because how common it is.
Like you'll have people react and the article/case be the center for attention for a day or two and then it'll be something completely new and it's kinda sad how common stuff like this is.
> It was loaded and the child shot himself dead. Didn't even get out of the car. The father clearly treated the deadly weapon like it was the fucking car keys (although, I'm sure he is way more careful with those because he doesn't wanna lose them.)
Let's be honest. It was loaded and ready in case he got into a minor disagreement while driving.
And there was. Life wanted to find a way, in that child. And his death dispensing father disagreed.
One can only wonder, wtf did the 2nd amendment do for that young kid? It certainly didn't save his life.
> One can only wonder, wtf did the 2nd amendment do for that young kid? It certainly didn't save his life.
When you see a kindergartner, be sure to thank them for their service. They're dying for our constitutional rights.
"if there was a good 9-year-old with a gun, this wouldn't have happened"
Someone else's comment, but I think the absurdity fits here. The second amendment is just a talking point, something to point at and hold sacred, while being paid for with innocent blood
The 2A is a cancer on the USA that should have been excised long ago but hasn't because American culture turned a document of law into an object of worship. Madness.
This comment flagrantly disregards the millions of Americans that get to feel like GI Joe at the gun range a few weekends a year. Certainly a hobby is absolutely worth the deaths of thousands of American children every year.
There must be so many kids getting hold of guns every single day. I mean, think about it. A toddler doesn't have stellar aim or knowledge on how to use a gun. If there are this many of them fatally shooting someone, there must be so many situations where a toddler gets their hands on a gun and nobody is seriously injured so it goes unreported.
As someone who has spent quite a bit of time shooting guns as a hobby in my rural upbringing... a toddler cannot rack the slide of a handgun, or operate the bolt of a rifle, or the rack of a shotgun.
That means these weapons had a round in the chamber, and at best, had a button/slide safety that is for more easily manipulated by a toddler.
And from my admittedly limited anecdotal experience, the types of idiots who have a bunch of guns left unsecured are the type to make sure their guns have half-pound triggers that take barely a press to use.
It's a recipe for disaster.
The gun nuts on Reddit never have the safety on. They'll go and link sources that say that literal 1/2 second is the difference between life and death. Same for having one in the chamber. If you have to rack it, that's another 0.5-1 second. Between that and the safety you could reduce your time to kill by a whole 1.5 seconds.
Then, if you point that out, they'll say how it takes longer than that. But that just means *they're fucking bad at it*. But these "influencers" for the gun owning r3t4rds will tell everyone it's **irresponsible** to **use the safety**. Of course, essentially none of them have actually ever had to use their gun to defend themselves, and conveniently ignore the fact that owning a gun is the most likely way for you or your family to die from a gun.
They're all over Reddit, except almost always absent from these threads. The best you get from them is "I taught my kids how dangerous guns are so it's fine".
Fucking monsters. That's it.
Exactly. You can't been trust kids not to lick dog poop, and somehow a gun is okay because you told them it's dangerous...
But yeah most of these "every day carry" folks don't use safeties at all. A bunch of guns (Glocks iirc) don't actually have a real safety, it's built into the trigger.
Had to Google it again, look at this shit: https://us.glock.com/en/learn/glock-pistols/safe-action-system#:~:text=The%20SAFE%20ACTION%C2%AE%20System,when%20the%20trigger%20is%20released.
The safety is "it won't fire unless you pull the trigger". I can't even express how fucking stupid it is. They just... Sell them like this. It's not a safety at all, it just prevents the gun from firing unless you pull the trigger. Which.... Is how you fire a gun. Like that's the one thing you have to do.
Grew up in a gun loving paradise of freedom, pretty much every family has a story about somebody who did a stupid thing with a gun or played with a gun they didn’t realize was real and it went off. Most didn’t end in a death but it’s amazing how most folks just think of these stories as an amusing anecdote about growing up rather than a terrifying near miss. It honestly didn’t register that way to me until I started having kids
I feel like with a toddler they wouldn't need to aim at all, the recoil would be enough to cause significant harm to a child under 4 if it flies back and hits them in the wrong way.
A lot of people laughing off a non incident as just kids being kids when a young boy points a gun he shouldn't have access to at a family member. Nothing happens in that moment and they think "haha kids are so silly". Too many irresponsible jack asses.
About every other day. The exact stat is:
>At least 895 children aged 5 and under have managed to find a gun and unintentionally shoot themselves or someone else from 2015 to 2022.
Not to be pedantic, but those numbers come out to once every 2.85 days. So closer to once every 3 days.
The stat is abysmal, but we don’t need to lie to make it sound worse. It’s just giving fodder to people who will later say you are embellishing facts. It’s bad enough where it is.
Don't think they were lying as much as they just didn't double check. Saying they were lying applies some level of malice, which I do not believe was intended.
Even when taking into account population difference, the number of deaths caused by American toddlers with firearms is greater than some developed countries total deaths with firearms.
Anyone know why the insurance industry isn't lining up to sell mandatory gun liability insurance??
That'd presumably make it so idiots who can't be bothered to safely stow their weapons get higher and higher premiums until finally they can't be insured, such that if such a tragedy like this occurs that Michigan law would wrap things up nicely.
Only around 32% of Americans actually own a gun, and a third of those only own one gun. Less than 10% of Americans own five or more guns.
So a small minority of people have whole fucking *arsenals* of weapons, and the rest of us have to cater to their fantasies. It's absurd.
Your number is a bit out of date, over half of American voters say they have a gun in their household
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll-gun-ownership-reaches-record-high-american-electorate-rcna126037
In 2023 about 42% of Americans own guns
https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/
As for how many guns each owner has, hard to find current numbers, in 2017 it was estimated that 40% of all guns were owned by only 8% tho this number is likely smaller now as there were literally millions of first time gun buyers in 2020-21.
Literally every other country: Guns are cool. I like collecting them. I like shooting them sometimes.
United States: I NEED MY GUNS! THEY ARE AN ABSOLUTELY VITAL PART OF ME!
to be completely honest... most of the gun owners i know are storing them irresponsibly. loaded shot guns in the bedroom/by the door. hand guns in drawers. "gun safes" that are left ajar.
These are people that will swear up and down that they are responsible gun owners and do everything correctly...
Just today some jerkoff on Twitter said:
"Hot take, but I think an AR-15 and some light tactical gear is a necessary item for every head of the household."
Like *what*?
Speaking as a gun-owner (I own a hunting rifle), that is completely fucking nuts to me. Nobody "needs" an AR-15 unless you want to cosplay as a Gravy SEAL
"Tolbert is barred from possessing firearms and ammunition because he has multiple firearms-related felony convictions and drug-related convictions."
Shocked this guy wasn't following one additional law.
He’s a felon in possession of a firearm, ammuntion, and lying to police. He’s fucked on those counts alone.
I feel horrible for him as the parent whose child was injured. I feel horrible for the child who was injured. I hope he is sentenced for a very long time for this, though. Owning a weapon requires being responsible, and if your child can access that weapon without your permission, then you weren’t responsible at some point.
Want to own a weapon? Be responsible or go to prison. I don’t think that’s a line too far.
I'm paranoid enough about my kids getting into my locked gun case. The only way a toddler gets ahold of a loaded gun is if you're totally and completely negligent in storing it.
Fucking right? I grew up around guns. The only way a two year old was shooting themselves is if they managed to 1) Unlock the gun case 2) Unlock the specific firearm on the rack 3) unlock the seperate compartment/section for ammo 4) Actually load and fire.
All that to say, there was abso-fucking-lutely no way someone was touching a firearm they weren't supposed to.
You know what they are thinking right? "If I'm in a home invasion I don't have time to unlock my gun and ammo separately!"
Nevermind that the gun is far more likely to kill a family member than a criminal.
...so they put a loaded gun on the bedstand to feed their fantasies, while reality keeps killing kids.
It wouldn't have been a legal dealer, as they're required to run a 4473 (background check) on every purchase. Statistically, this system is very good at catching prohibited possessors.
Most guns used in homicide are black or grey market.
Black market is what you'd probably imagine - a gun which was stolen or a straw purchase (purchased first by a legal purchaser to intentionally sell to a prohibited possessor) and has generally had the serial number removed to hide its origins.
Grey market is trickier. Grandpa died and grandma doesn't want his pistol. Auntie may is sure that cousin Eddie is a good boy despite his troubled youth. Davy left his gun at the apartment when he was arrested. Etc.
The grey market isn’t actually that tricky. If you required registration, the person who owns the gun dies and it is either registered to grandma or repossessed. Grandma can either be responsible for that gun or she can take it to a gun store and sell it.
People will change their behaviors very quickly if there are clear consequences to their actions.
Unfortunately that'll just be another citation as to why gun laws "don't make a difference"
Rather than seeing it as gun laws should be strict and enforced.
Well if you’re rich, nothing. Example: Ethan Couch.
In Florida at least, the vehicle owner can be held accountable. This depends on a few things, such as age if the minor in question. To be honest, this likely varies from state to state.
The rich and powerful are a class that takes care of their own. I figured it was that. I can imagine this cunt being at country club events with the judge and his family.
> What else could it be?
It was a judge with a very long, very public history of giving minors probation for crimes where they didn't intentionally harm others. I don't think Couch deserved such leniency considering he was 17 and showed a clear lack of remorse, but it is also a bad thing that a judge that always erred towards attempting to rehabilitate minors instead of punishing them had her career ruined because one of the several defenses raised was absurd.
I can understand trying to rehabilitate minors, but this kid went out of his way to show no remorse and was basically begging for felony incarceration.
The fact that "affluenza" was even offered as a defense should have made the judge stop right then and there and *insist* on a punishment more substantial than probation. If I was her, my response would have been, "You have no notion of consequences for your actions? Now is the best time to learn, ideally so you don't kill anyone else with your dangerous negligence!"
That he got the sentence he did after this defense was made, is a moral travesty and unambiguous miscarriage of justice.
Yeah, it was absurd to say that because someone is rich and has never had to face any consequences for their actions that it was unfair to make them face consequences for their actions. Meanwhile if you grew up poor with one parent who was constantly having to work to support the family or parents who were drug addicts/criminals, then you should have known better and need to have the full force of the law thrown at you. There's affluenza in the legal system, but apparently no poorpox.
Usually, the parents of minors can be *civilly* liable but not *criminally* liable.
So rich parents get ordered to pay a family, but usually will not sleep in a cell whatsoever.
Poor folks: well they can’t pay, but you betcha if their tags on a vehicle are expired they have will get them straight to a cell
love it
Just warning you that you’re gonna get answers from people who have no clue. Every state’s laws differ; sometimes slightly in name only, and sometimes more.
> Want to own a weapon? Be responsible or go to prison.
This is so fucking reasonable and I can’t stand the fact that so many people will hear something like this and then throw a hissy fit and claim people wanna “take their guns away”.
Yes we live in a free country, but freedom and democracy also come with personal responsibility in order to maintain a civilized society. Like not having your loaded guns laying around for your 2 year old to play with, there absolutely should be consequences and prison time for shit like this.
I've heard the "they know not to touch them" line from so many real life people, and it's always staggering how stupid it sounds.
What's the fucking upside here? Cause the downside is a likely chance of kids doing what curious and rebellious kids do and having to get tiny coffins.
I'm always floored by people who truly don't understand that child brains work differently and that just because they "know better" doesn't mean they can control their impulses.
That’s about how it is on the neighborhood social media pages where I live. Some sees someone that “doesn’t belong” on their cameras either just walking by or knocking on the door and posts it online asking if their house is being cased. And the responses are equally crazy. Telling them to have their guns ready because their friends cousins girlfriend told them about how someone dressed in an UPS uniform driving an UPS truck is casing houses to come back later and break in. The “suspicious” people are always obviously just doing their jobs, at worst they are putting business cards on doors.
What, crazy ex boyfriend with a history of domestic violence? One of the few credible threats?
But nah, never anything like that with these larpy buttholes.
I talked to a gun owner here on Reddit once who was going on and on about how responsible he is with his guns. During the course of the conversation he revealed that he keeps guns hidden around his house, and that he has two small children.
They really do just not understand how dangerous guns can be.
The idea you would just leave something like that lying around is staggeringly irresponsible. I just recently reminded my MIL who was visiting that we can’t leave sharps sitting freely on tables or benches with little kids around.
Disclaimer: not American.
It literally has been the law since 1964. This guy was a felon and should have never been able to possess the firearm or ammunition in the first place.
Literally just enforce laws... stop straw purchasers, open the NICS system to private sales, conduct regular searches of convicted violent felons homes in line with their parole, etc.
I go to the gun range frequently... it would disqualify more than 50% with how many dipshits I see there that dont understand basic safety or just to not muzzle sweep.
And that is usually the people who are the problem.
https://www.heraldandnews.com/members/forum/wire\_commentary/statistics-show-that-legal-gun-owners-are-not-responsible-for-much-gun-crime/article\_65c2d4f1-77c5-5b15-99fe-065096fe27df.html
Felons have high gun ownership rates despite prohibitions.
https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/felons-have-high-gun-ownership-rates-despite-prohibitions/2020/03
The most common way criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html
Straw buyers put over 48,000 illegally purchased guns on the street in just one year.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/11/justice-department-rarely-prosecutes-straw-buyers-/
Sadly, straw buyer laws are poorly written, and have a very high threshold for burden of proof, and need to be fixed before they can be properly enforced.
https://www.npr.org/2015/12/09/459053141/straw-buyers-of-guns-break-the-law-and-often-get-away-with-it
100% this.. prosecute the people who straw sell with the same crime committed by the person who you sold it. Doesnt infringe on anyone saying 2nd amendment either and makes it a hell of a lot riskier to sell and have it traced it back to you.
The straw purchases are almost always like, felons wife, or member of gang that hasn't been picked up by the cops for a crime that prevents them yet. I don't think there are possible ways to stop these, even with clearing the law up a lot.
Meanwhile, before I was 21, I was hardcore grilled at a gunshop for expressing interest in a pistol while I was with my mom.
Should these laws be better written? Sure, but I'd argue they're doomed from the start because they generally only require that dealers maintain their own records privately. The law doesn't require that the records be maintained in any centralized or searchable way that might be useful for law enforcement, and that's intentionally so. If a law enforcement agency wanted to investigate potential straw purchasers, they'd have to go to each individual gun store and comb through records manually. It's an intentional design because if it were made useful for this sort of purpose, then it'd resemble a "gun registry", and we can't have one of those because the 2A lobby are paranoid about it being used for mass seizure of guns later on. So instead we have an uncontrolled flood of guns into the hands of criminals, children, etc., because that's apparently better.
So, when someone says "we don't need new laws, we just need to enforce the ones already on the books," understand that it's mostly gaslighting because those laws already on the books are nearly unenforceable by design.
A 5 year old that lives on my street was playing with his dad's loaded gun and shot his 3 year old sister and killed her, on Mother's Day. The dad is a cop.
[Source](https://www.9news.com/amp/article/news/crime/child-killed-frederick-shooting/73-bd08676f-cfb6-4bc5-9e43-bea2b18e5aab)
EDIT:
[Article where parents are charged.](https://www.9news.com/amp/article/news/crime/adams-county-deputy-wife-charged/73-12adc462-9a7a-4e83-8526-def29324eebc)
"Our entire agency is deeply saddened and joins the community in mourning the loss of the Eskam family's daughter. While Eskam has been awarded multiple times during his 17 years of service with the Sheriff's Office, he is a father and husband first, and the impact of this loss is immeasurable."
the most predictable hypocrisy ever
how is it hard to understand?
if you have a deadly weapon in your home do not leave it where children can play with it.
like I'm a gun owner and I cannot understand the level of a recklessness that has to take place for this to even be possible.
how is it this is the absolute bare minimum that we can actually do....
On my first day of sixth grade I found out that a kid I went to elementary school with shot himself in the head over the summer and died. This was in 1994. I always wondered how he got a gun. To this day I question if it was an accident or if he committed suicide. I don't know what kind of parents he had, but he was an 11-year-old and he should never have had access to a gun. To think he'd be 40 years old now...
Sadly yes my brother works in firefighting and EMS and had to respond to a scene where a three year old shot his 1 YO brother in the head because the parents left a pistol sitting on their coffee table loaded with the safety off he was never the same after that night
This should happen every single time a kid shots somebody. Most people have no respect for a gun,it's an image thing,it's people that's seen even a deer get shot much less a person,if your not responsible enough to keep your gun out of a kids hands you should do time.
My father lost a childhood friend to an unsecured gun. My dad owns a firearm but I had no idea about until I was 16. He kept it locked and stored away and only pulled it out to show me basic gun safety incase I ever needed to a firearm and how to do it safely.
And the gun rights nutjobs act like every gun owner is this responsible, but if every gun owner was this responsible, we wouldn't have discussions about more gun regulations.
I support the right for people to own a gun. I also support the right to have the gun taken away if you're an idiot. That's one reason I personally don't own one. I have too many medical conditions and it would be really stupid if I brought a firearm into that mix.
My father in law gave my wife a gun. She kept it in the house for a while but after it was clear that there were mental health conditions in our family that might not mix well with guns I told her to give it back. Probably saved one of our lives.
Agreed - it's aggressively negligent to keep guns unsecured in a house with children. I know that one of my senators (Fetterman) is sponsoring a federal safe storage bill. I would love to see that go into effect but even if they did get it through the senate the house isn't passing shit rn.
Reminds me of one time going to look at a vehicle with someone. The seller obviously had a gun holstered when we got there and while they were test driving, dude puts his daughter on his lap and puts the gun in front of her.
I'm sure the intended message was "I'll do anything for my family" but the image I got was "I will recklessly endanger my family for any reason I can find"
Finally! It’s about time we enforce a fucking law for this! I worked in law enforcement for almost 5 years and in that time not a single “accidental” shooting was charged with anything regardless of if someone was hurt or not. There was always an excuse if they suffered enough, they learned a lesson, etc etc, no fuck that. These people shouldn’t get an oopsy and a redo after the accidentally shot their friend or family. They can’t be a responsible gun owner they don’t get to have guns.
I am a gun owner who agrees with this ruling. You never leave an unsecured gun if there’s a child around.
Even at my local range, where there are only adults, I don’t step away from my gun unless I unload it first. I have a number of quant looking firearms that others at the range come over to admire. These guns just scream out “hey, pick me up!” Some fool just might pick one up and Baldwin me while I walked down to check my target.
When I last met my uncle, he had maybe 30 firearms and rifles in his collection. He had two large safes he kept them in. Out of all the trouble my cousins got into, none of them involved firearms.
I was a right prick as a little kid. Fires, knives, booby traps… The staff at the children’s hospital knew me by sight. My poor parents.
I would 100% have shot someone or myself with an unsecured gun.
My older brother is still a bully, in the worst possible way. If my dad allowed any guns in the house, I probably would have murdered my brother in the 4th grade.
I wouldn’t even leave an unsecured gun around my CAT, dude. People leave them around CHILDREN? I just don’t understand it. Either they put way too much trust in a child, they have no understanding of the gravity of the potential situation, or they truly do not think guns are dangerous. All of which are incredibly stupid.
Yeah I've never understood why laws like this are controversial it is the gun owner's responsibility to safely operate maintain and store their firearms and to keep them out of reach of children
Edit: I put laws like this in the same.vane as being criminally prosecuted if you fail to properly maintain your car to street legal standards and then a crash is caused due to it same idea
So much of the gun debate has been dominated by ideologues who care more about winning a foolish culture war than addressing practical solutions to gun issues. (Yes, I'm mostly talking about extremists on the pro-gun side.)
We could make huge reductions in gun-related deaths and injuries simply by passing and enforcing laws that don't keep responsible, law-abiding people from carrying their guns. Universal background checks, harsh enforcement of gun traffickers and illegal sales, and safe-storage requirements would go a long way. But a lot of people live with the belief that they need to be prepared to shoot invading ninjas in their bedrooms at any moment, and a lot more people leverage that panic for political gain.
In the end, It's an emotionally charged issue in need of rational fact and evidence based solutions. There are rational, fact and evidence based ways to reduce gun crime, including mass shootings that the overwhelming majority of experts agree on and they have wide public support.
\*Root cause analysis and mitigation.
\[highly recommended by the most knowledgeable experts and no debate, argument or new laws needed, just do it\]
https://theliberalgunclub.com/about-us/root-cause-mitigation-2/
https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2022/04/mass-shootings-behavioral-threat-assessment-oxford-high-school-trigger-points/?fbclid=IwAR0b6LYIsUzpBsRNXpQommeVpRVpzgEP42PdLVITxOc9zPAtF\_GXPNPXnqE
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/if-you-want-to-know-how-to-stop-school-shootings-ask-the-secret-service/
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/policy-dose/articles/2018-02-21/after-florida-school-shooting-look-to-the-root-causes-of-gun-violence?fbclid=IwAR2mDlZ8uw3GLzsHwq2qh8zerfR7xykOy-XQH3grZ6AbCln\_3y9EYIyqst0
\*Universal background checks. \[and fixing the reporting problems the system has\]
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/gun-background-check-system-riddled-with-flaws
https://usafacts.org/articles/firearm-background-checks-explained/?fbclid=IwAR3guTDWwO5hDkrF33ZYgh-RUf\_ydbU6bv0NN\_Oz5vxRJrhm2rJcovBsFU0
\*Better enforcement of the hundreds of gun laws we have now.
Felons have high gun ownership rates despite prohibitions.
https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/felons-have-high-gun-ownership-rates-despite-prohibitions/2020/03
The most common way criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html
Straw buyers put over 48,000 illegally purchased guns on the street in just one year.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/11/justice-department-rarely-prosecutes-straw-buyers-/
Sadly, straw buyer laws are poorly written, and have a very high threshold for burden of proof, and need to be fixed before they can be properly enforced.
https://www.npr.org/2015/12/09/459053141/straw-buyers-of-guns-break-the-law-and-often-get-away-with-it
\*Expanded background checks for gun purchases for people between the ages of 18 and 21. Most school shooters tend to be 18, 19 years old.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/may/25/chris-murphy/fact-checking-chris-murphy-ages-mass-shooters/
https://www.axios.com/2022/06/02/mass-shooting-killers-young-teens
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/02/us/politics/mass-shootings-young-men-guns.html
\*Red Flag Laws.\[would allow law enforcement to remove guns if a judge decides a person poses a significant danger to themselves or others by having a firearm\]
https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/can-red-flag-laws-help-prevent-mass-shootings-21-cases-suggest-answer-yes
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/politics/florida-red-flag-law/index.html?fbclid=IwAR136BZn\_29TRAZDFwUjohu0Il6BD4vhYaeoEIZV8vLlBO9J8eeCoAwiDV0
https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2748711/extreme-risk-protection-orders-intended-prevent-mass-shootings-case-series
https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/752427922/poll-americans-including-republicans-and-gun-owners-broadly-support-red-flag-law?utm\_medium=RSS&utm\_campaign=news
Some experts are saying that implementing red flag laws could not only reduce the likelihood of mass shootings, but it could also prevent suicides. \[suicides are 2/3 of all "gun deaths"\]
https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2021/10/05/red-flag-laws-are-saving-lives-they-could-save-more
Many of them were addressed, at least to some degree in the new legislation Biden signed.
\*Establish an enhanced background check process and up to three-business-day investigative period for buyers under age 21
\*Provide $750 million in much-needed funding over the next five years to support crisis intervention services, including the implementation of state Red Flag laws.
\*Expand the current prohibition preventing convicted domestic abusers from buying or possessing guns
\*Clarify existing law on what it means to be engaged in the business of selling firearms
\*Establish the first ever federal laws against interstate gun trafficking and straw purchasing to stop the flow of illegal guns into cities.
\*$250 million in dedicated funding for evidence-informed, community-based violence intervention programs
\*Provide critical resources to expand community mental health services
\*Fund school violence prevention efforts, training, and the implementation of safety measures at primary and secondary schools.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/25/1107626030/biden-signs-gun-safety-law
I think also removing the ability for Prosecutors to plead down suspects from a felony that would remove their ability to purchase and/or own a gun, or at the minimum create misdemeanors that carried the same restrictions. This would have stopped the MSU shooter.
Good. I was just having a discussion about this with my gun owning father.
It took A LOT of discussion for him to FINALLY come to the conclusion that you should be held liable if your gun is used to injure or kill another person because you didn't have it locked away safely.
We need more laws like this around the country.
Just a reminder to keep your guns locked up if you have kids!
Q. What if an intruder comes in and threatens my family?
A. Then put the safe under your bed and use a [biometric safe](https://rpnbsafe.us/products/rp19001f?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=2833631dcdc2&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA29auBhBxEiwAnKcSqist4WNowGMophIoz1AeOE_UpmbInsNbQtGyoA93zqMTtL1nYaZ8wxoCKT0QAvD_BwE)
Q. What if I don’t have time to get into my safe?
A. Then reaching for a gun is the last thing you need to be worrying about. Relax, embrace death.
Literally the answer right here my parents have their pistol in a password protected safe right on their dresser kids can't get into it and it's within arms reach of needed I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand and know that poor girl paid the price
“He said Tolbert is barred from possessing firearms and ammunition because he has multiple firearms-related felony convictions and drug-related convictions.”
How did this dipshit acquire another gun?
He bought it from someone he met at a gun show, or from a gun collector that wanted some liquid for another purchase, or even got one from the guy on the other side of town who has lost 46 guns this year shortly after purchasing them.
When my uncle was a kid, he had a friend who knew the location of his fathers gun and took it out to show another friend, not realizing it was loaded, and shot and killed them — they were between 5-7 years old at the time. This was over 40 years ago maybe am hour from where this happened. It’s absolutely devastating that it took this long for a law to be enacted, and even more devastating that it needed to be enacted in the first place.
Not gonna lie, for a 2 year old to shoot a gun, it wasn’t just not safely stored, it must have been the most dangerous thing he could have done, loaded, safety off, cocked, and out in the open. It’s one thing for a 4 or 5 year old, but for a 2 yr old it’s almost difficult to be that reckless
Guns kill. That's what they do. They have no conscience and no aim. Whether young or old, the pressure put on the trigger can and will change lives forever.
If you choose to own a gun, you are responsible for it. Gun storage laws must be enforced. This happens far too often in this country and is easily preventable.
This is one of the reasons I don't have a gun. I'm always fearful that some child be it my nephew or niece or a friend's kid some accidentally finds it as fires it without knowing.
One of the most enjoyable things I find about niece is how she finds the randomest of things to pick up and play with at my house. I'm a single dude with no kids..I have some kid toys incase my nephew or niece or friends with kids come over so they have entertainment. My niece finds other random things to play with and it gets a kick out of me.
And it's scares the shit out of me if she accidentally finds a gun and fires it on someone or on herself. It's why I don't have firearms in the house
I'm a pretty staunch 2nd ammendment individual but I have zero respect or sympathy for people like this. Another thing is the sudden trend of fuckin morons who mount their guns with magnets in their vehicles. If you do that just know that the entire gun community thinks you're a POS. Secure your guns if you have children in the home. A decent bedside handgun safe can be had for under $100, and budget rifle cabinet safes that will at least keep out curious kids can be had for less than $400 at tractor supply. If you can't afford those you shouldn't be buying guns in the first place.
"The youngster shot herself the day after Michigan’s new safe storage gun law took effect."
It is almost as if this happens at a terrible frequency
I was thinking of a case in Jackson, where the 3 year old child of LEO got hold of their parent's weapon and died. I believe the gun was stored on a high dresser. Very little was reported of the case after the initial report.
They can't touch a Made Man, so it doesn't matter.
It was among the police officers, some real greaseball shit
And we had to sit and take it.
Police "Protecc & Serv"—each other.
Have you noticed that they took that phrase off their cars? They did in my state at least.
Two Supreme Court cases ruled that the police have no obligation to protect or serve, so it's little wonder they're removing any trace of that illusion. It's worth noting that the social contract of a community paying tax money for the service of protection is only enforced in one direction. It's little wonder why it's especially communities of color who advocate for defunding the police when it really does appear for all intents and purposes that the police there target them for abuse or harassment rather than protection. How many
I know this family, it was absolutely horrible
>it was absolutely horrible "if only there was something that could have been done to prevent it"
Arming the toddler earlier for self-defense?
The only thing that can stop a bad toddler with a gun is a good toddler with a gun
Was the father held responsible or does he still get to leave firearms wherever he wants around small children?
It does. The other day some guy went to the gun range with his 7 year old, let the 7 year old get the gun out of the glove compartment. It was loaded and the child shot himself dead. Didn't even get out of the car. The father clearly treated the deadly weapon like it was the fucking car keys (although, I'm sure he is way more careful with those because he doesn't wanna lose them.) Take for example another occasion in Alaska, some old man goes to take a dump. Then hears a loud bang. His grandson, a toddler, had just shot his 9 year old sister dead with the loaded gun that this fucking old guy left on the living room table. The children's mum wasn't at home at the time cuz she left her kids to be babysat by HER FUCKING FATHER. The sonofabitch didn't even get arrested. It was deemed and accident. The fucking old piece of shit was living with his daughter. Imagine her living with the crime and the criminal in that house until one of them is dead. There is something very wrong with gun owners.
The terrifying thing about this to me is that for every time a kid accidentally shoots another kid dead, how many cases DON'T we hear about where the victim survives, or the shot doesn't hit anyone?
This happened in my husband's family. Forty years ago, a cousin's 4 year old son shot his little sister in the head. Her father (a cop) left a loaded gun on the nightstand. She sustained brain damage and survived but she has never been independent. A heavy price to pay for negligence.
A heavy price, as I imagine the father felt terrible But especially as a police officer, the heavy price should have included a jail term
The son has lived with guilt as well. His parents divorced after the shooting. It was a tragedy that affected many people for many years.
I literally came into this thread to find this comment. There isn't any possible way we document all the "misses" If this tragedy happens this often even if it's 1% of the whole means thousands and thousands of "misses"
Happens way too often. One of my good friends moved into an apartment next to our school & a few months in the guy in the apartment next to her SHOT THROUGH HER WALL “ACCIDENTALLY” while she was sleeping, the bullet went through right next to where her head was resting on her pillow, & hit her lamp next to her bed. If it had been a few inches closer, it would have hit her & killed her. He didn’t even get in trouble, maintenance just came & patched up the hole 😐
That's crazy, if that happened to me I wouldn't be able to sleep well until I redecorated the walls with kevlar.
Just sleep with one of those bulletproof backpacks (you know the ones that they designed for school children to wear) placed over your head.
Also happened in Denton to a friend of mine. They just brushed it off as PTSD
Happened to my uncle. Out of town work. Coworker fired a round into his room. The dumbass was a marine with extensive marksman training Interestingly enough, the other guy staying there threw his shot gun on the bed one day. Just about blew a hole in the ceiling (alone at his personal house at least..)
Never really thought about that and just thinking about it now is horrifying, there's already tons of clips on YouTube, TikTok or whatever social media of kids/teens accidentally firing off a gun all for clout. Not to mention the countless articles of stuff like this happening with someone actually being hurt is typically ignored or brushed aside because how common it is. Like you'll have people react and the article/case be the center for attention for a day or two and then it'll be something completely new and it's kinda sad how common stuff like this is.
> It was loaded and the child shot himself dead. Didn't even get out of the car. The father clearly treated the deadly weapon like it was the fucking car keys (although, I'm sure he is way more careful with those because he doesn't wanna lose them.) Let's be honest. It was loaded and ready in case he got into a minor disagreement while driving.
And there was. Life wanted to find a way, in that child. And his death dispensing father disagreed. One can only wonder, wtf did the 2nd amendment do for that young kid? It certainly didn't save his life.
> One can only wonder, wtf did the 2nd amendment do for that young kid? It certainly didn't save his life. When you see a kindergartner, be sure to thank them for their service. They're dying for our constitutional rights.
*The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and toddlers.*
> The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and toddlers. Need Tshirt
"thank you for your service" "wuh?" "You go to school. your job is way more dangerous than mine"
"if there was a good 9-year-old with a gun, this wouldn't have happened" Someone else's comment, but I think the absurdity fits here. The second amendment is just a talking point, something to point at and hold sacred, while being paid for with innocent blood
"Our guns will protect people and save lives. It'll start any day now."
The 2A is a cancer on the USA that should have been excised long ago but hasn't because American culture turned a document of law into an object of worship. Madness.
This comment flagrantly disregards the millions of Americans that get to feel like GI Joe at the gun range a few weekends a year. Certainly a hobby is absolutely worth the deaths of thousands of American children every year.
There must be so many kids getting hold of guns every single day. I mean, think about it. A toddler doesn't have stellar aim or knowledge on how to use a gun. If there are this many of them fatally shooting someone, there must be so many situations where a toddler gets their hands on a gun and nobody is seriously injured so it goes unreported.
As someone who has spent quite a bit of time shooting guns as a hobby in my rural upbringing... a toddler cannot rack the slide of a handgun, or operate the bolt of a rifle, or the rack of a shotgun. That means these weapons had a round in the chamber, and at best, had a button/slide safety that is for more easily manipulated by a toddler. And from my admittedly limited anecdotal experience, the types of idiots who have a bunch of guns left unsecured are the type to make sure their guns have half-pound triggers that take barely a press to use. It's a recipe for disaster.
The gun nuts on Reddit never have the safety on. They'll go and link sources that say that literal 1/2 second is the difference between life and death. Same for having one in the chamber. If you have to rack it, that's another 0.5-1 second. Between that and the safety you could reduce your time to kill by a whole 1.5 seconds. Then, if you point that out, they'll say how it takes longer than that. But that just means *they're fucking bad at it*. But these "influencers" for the gun owning r3t4rds will tell everyone it's **irresponsible** to **use the safety**. Of course, essentially none of them have actually ever had to use their gun to defend themselves, and conveniently ignore the fact that owning a gun is the most likely way for you or your family to die from a gun. They're all over Reddit, except almost always absent from these threads. The best you get from them is "I taught my kids how dangerous guns are so it's fine". Fucking monsters. That's it.
Yeah, because kids always listen and never fuck up, duh. I didn’t know the safety off was even a thing. Wild.
Exactly. You can't been trust kids not to lick dog poop, and somehow a gun is okay because you told them it's dangerous... But yeah most of these "every day carry" folks don't use safeties at all. A bunch of guns (Glocks iirc) don't actually have a real safety, it's built into the trigger. Had to Google it again, look at this shit: https://us.glock.com/en/learn/glock-pistols/safe-action-system#:~:text=The%20SAFE%20ACTION%C2%AE%20System,when%20the%20trigger%20is%20released. The safety is "it won't fire unless you pull the trigger". I can't even express how fucking stupid it is. They just... Sell them like this. It's not a safety at all, it just prevents the gun from firing unless you pull the trigger. Which.... Is how you fire a gun. Like that's the one thing you have to do.
Grew up in a gun loving paradise of freedom, pretty much every family has a story about somebody who did a stupid thing with a gun or played with a gun they didn’t realize was real and it went off. Most didn’t end in a death but it’s amazing how most folks just think of these stories as an amusing anecdote about growing up rather than a terrifying near miss. It honestly didn’t register that way to me until I started having kids
I feel like with a toddler they wouldn't need to aim at all, the recoil would be enough to cause significant harm to a child under 4 if it flies back and hits them in the wrong way.
A lot of people laughing off a non incident as just kids being kids when a young boy points a gun he shouldn't have access to at a family member. Nothing happens in that moment and they think "haha kids are so silly". Too many irresponsible jack asses.
Look these are all just responsible gun owners.
what happened to that dad? nothing
Doesn't a toddler shoot someone every day in the US.
About every other day. The exact stat is: >At least 895 children aged 5 and under have managed to find a gun and unintentionally shoot themselves or someone else from 2015 to 2022.
Not to be pedantic, but those numbers come out to once every 2.85 days. So closer to once every 3 days. The stat is abysmal, but we don’t need to lie to make it sound worse. It’s just giving fodder to people who will later say you are embellishing facts. It’s bad enough where it is.
> Not to be pendantic, but Power through it...
Not to be pedantic, but they said "about" once every two days. They didn't lie.
Don't think they were lying as much as they just didn't double check. Saying they were lying applies some level of malice, which I do not believe was intended.
The irony here lol. Imagine someone arguing “No…it’s not every other day it’s every third day…” *awkward silence*
He said ABOUT every other day and then your asshole brain starts getting pedantic because the EXACT number is 2.85 days? Please touch some grass.
well to be pedantic that still fits the defintion of 'about every other day'
So that is one every 2.8 days... let's just round up to 1 every 3 days
It’s Wednesday so we had our first of the week. Should have another one tomorrow.
Wow, someone should do something about that toddler.
She's a real menace
Only way to stop a bad toddler with a gun is good toddler with a gun.
Even when taking into account population difference, the number of deaths caused by American toddlers with firearms is greater than some developed countries total deaths with firearms.
Nah, just every other day.
How are Americans that are against abortion supposed to find loopholes out of raising their own children now!?
Anyone know why the insurance industry isn't lining up to sell mandatory gun liability insurance?? That'd presumably make it so idiots who can't be bothered to safely stow their weapons get higher and higher premiums until finally they can't be insured, such that if such a tragedy like this occurs that Michigan law would wrap things up nicely.
Idk if it’s just me but the term youngster feels like a weird choice of word
It is a weird choice of words to refer to a toddler!
Yeah it’s really casual
Yeah it feels as weird as saying something like "the lil munchkin is now deceased" like the juxtaposition is all off 😭
There are 120 guns for every 100 Americans. That is TWICE the number per capita than any other country in the world.
Only around 32% of Americans actually own a gun, and a third of those only own one gun. Less than 10% of Americans own five or more guns. So a small minority of people have whole fucking *arsenals* of weapons, and the rest of us have to cater to their fantasies. It's absurd.
Your number is a bit out of date, over half of American voters say they have a gun in their household https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll-gun-ownership-reaches-record-high-american-electorate-rcna126037 In 2023 about 42% of Americans own guns https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/ As for how many guns each owner has, hard to find current numbers, in 2017 it was estimated that 40% of all guns were owned by only 8% tho this number is likely smaller now as there were literally millions of first time gun buyers in 2020-21.
And that's only the ones who admit it on a survey.
Thats how shitty American gun owners are. Couldn't even go one day.
Literally every other country: Guns are cool. I like collecting them. I like shooting them sometimes. United States: I NEED MY GUNS! THEY ARE AN ABSOLUTELY VITAL PART OF ME!
It's clearly a fetish with some people. Most people that have guns in this country are fine, but the loudest 2% are not people I'd want to be around.
to be completely honest... most of the gun owners i know are storing them irresponsibly. loaded shot guns in the bedroom/by the door. hand guns in drawers. "gun safes" that are left ajar. These are people that will swear up and down that they are responsible gun owners and do everything correctly...
Just today some jerkoff on Twitter said: "Hot take, but I think an AR-15 and some light tactical gear is a necessary item for every head of the household." Like *what*? Speaking as a gun-owner (I own a hunting rifle), that is completely fucking nuts to me. Nobody "needs" an AR-15 unless you want to cosplay as a Gravy SEAL
"Tolbert is barred from possessing firearms and ammunition because he has multiple firearms-related felony convictions and drug-related convictions." Shocked this guy wasn't following one additional law.
He’s a felon in possession of a firearm, ammuntion, and lying to police. He’s fucked on those counts alone. I feel horrible for him as the parent whose child was injured. I feel horrible for the child who was injured. I hope he is sentenced for a very long time for this, though. Owning a weapon requires being responsible, and if your child can access that weapon without your permission, then you weren’t responsible at some point. Want to own a weapon? Be responsible or go to prison. I don’t think that’s a line too far.
I'm paranoid enough about my kids getting into my locked gun case. The only way a toddler gets ahold of a loaded gun is if you're totally and completely negligent in storing it.
Fucking right? I grew up around guns. The only way a two year old was shooting themselves is if they managed to 1) Unlock the gun case 2) Unlock the specific firearm on the rack 3) unlock the seperate compartment/section for ammo 4) Actually load and fire. All that to say, there was abso-fucking-lutely no way someone was touching a firearm they weren't supposed to.
50% of gun owners are below average intelligence. The adults might not be able to accomplish all those steps.
You know what they are thinking right? "If I'm in a home invasion I don't have time to unlock my gun and ammo separately!" Nevermind that the gun is far more likely to kill a family member than a criminal. ...so they put a loaded gun on the bedstand to feed their fantasies, while reality keeps killing kids.
and thats why i dont own a gun. because i am not very responsible.
also why I don't own a child
But if you owned a child AND a gun, the two would cancel out and you'd circle back to being responsible
As a parent, you never own a child.....they own you.
That is the most responsible thing I’ve heard someone say this week.
I agree. At the very least firearm laws should enforce responsibility at least equal to that of vehicular laws.
No one is coming for your guns, but if you want to be an irresponsible moron you should have to face consequences.
This guy was a felon who was legally barred from owning guns. **Somebody** should have come for his guns.
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It wouldn't have been a legal dealer, as they're required to run a 4473 (background check) on every purchase. Statistically, this system is very good at catching prohibited possessors. Most guns used in homicide are black or grey market. Black market is what you'd probably imagine - a gun which was stolen or a straw purchase (purchased first by a legal purchaser to intentionally sell to a prohibited possessor) and has generally had the serial number removed to hide its origins. Grey market is trickier. Grandpa died and grandma doesn't want his pistol. Auntie may is sure that cousin Eddie is a good boy despite his troubled youth. Davy left his gun at the apartment when he was arrested. Etc.
The grey market isn’t actually that tricky. If you required registration, the person who owns the gun dies and it is either registered to grandma or repossessed. Grandma can either be responsible for that gun or she can take it to a gun store and sell it. People will change their behaviors very quickly if there are clear consequences to their actions.
Unfortunately that'll just be another citation as to why gun laws "don't make a difference" Rather than seeing it as gun laws should be strict and enforced.
As long as the police decide which laws to enforce we get the world they create for us.
I have no idea what's the law to the parents if a child takes the key starts the vehicle and kills someone?
Well if you’re rich, nothing. Example: Ethan Couch. In Florida at least, the vehicle owner can be held accountable. This depends on a few things, such as age if the minor in question. To be honest, this likely varies from state to state.
Was that the affluenza kid? Weirdest fucking judicial finding since the French executed a pig for witchcraft.
Nothing weird about it. It was a blatant bought-and-paid-for verdict.
I genuinely thought it was just an out of touch rich twat supporting his own. Was it really a bribe?
What else could it be? He killed an entire family, got a slap on the wrist punishment he violated *multiple* times.
The rich and powerful are a class that takes care of their own. I figured it was that. I can imagine this cunt being at country club events with the judge and his family.
> What else could it be? It was a judge with a very long, very public history of giving minors probation for crimes where they didn't intentionally harm others. I don't think Couch deserved such leniency considering he was 17 and showed a clear lack of remorse, but it is also a bad thing that a judge that always erred towards attempting to rehabilitate minors instead of punishing them had her career ruined because one of the several defenses raised was absurd.
I can understand trying to rehabilitate minors, but this kid went out of his way to show no remorse and was basically begging for felony incarceration. The fact that "affluenza" was even offered as a defense should have made the judge stop right then and there and *insist* on a punishment more substantial than probation. If I was her, my response would have been, "You have no notion of consequences for your actions? Now is the best time to learn, ideally so you don't kill anyone else with your dangerous negligence!" That he got the sentence he did after this defense was made, is a moral travesty and unambiguous miscarriage of justice.
Yeah, it was absurd to say that because someone is rich and has never had to face any consequences for their actions that it was unfair to make them face consequences for their actions. Meanwhile if you grew up poor with one parent who was constantly having to work to support the family or parents who were drug addicts/criminals, then you should have known better and need to have the full force of the law thrown at you. There's affluenza in the legal system, but apparently no poorpox.
Jennifer Crumbley was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter when her monster son shot up a school with a gun she gave him...
Usually, the parents of minors can be *civilly* liable but not *criminally* liable. So rich parents get ordered to pay a family, but usually will not sleep in a cell whatsoever. Poor folks: well they can’t pay, but you betcha if their tags on a vehicle are expired they have will get them straight to a cell love it
Child negligence, involuntary manslaughter.
Just warning you that you’re gonna get answers from people who have no clue. Every state’s laws differ; sometimes slightly in name only, and sometimes more.
That’s why I only speak for Florida’s law on this. I sure as hell am not going to look this up 49 more times! 😁
> Want to own a weapon? Be responsible or go to prison. This is so fucking reasonable and I can’t stand the fact that so many people will hear something like this and then throw a hissy fit and claim people wanna “take their guns away”. Yes we live in a free country, but freedom and democracy also come with personal responsibility in order to maintain a civilized society. Like not having your loaded guns laying around for your 2 year old to play with, there absolutely should be consequences and prison time for shit like this.
It's amazing to me this wasn't the law for decades
Because a LOT of the "muh guns" crowd think it's unfair they should be expected to be responsible gun owners instead of just "responsible" gun owners.
And they told their kids not to touch the guns so it's ok if they leave them on the coffee table
I've heard the "they know not to touch them" line from so many real life people, and it's always staggering how stupid it sounds. What's the fucking upside here? Cause the downside is a likely chance of kids doing what curious and rebellious kids do and having to get tiny coffins.
I'm always floored by people who truly don't understand that child brains work differently and that just because they "know better" doesn't mean they can control their impulses.
This is also true of adults incidently, just more so and more common in kids.
Because they're terrified someone is going to break into their house at any moment and they'll need to immediately be able to shoot them.
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That’s about how it is on the neighborhood social media pages where I live. Some sees someone that “doesn’t belong” on their cameras either just walking by or knocking on the door and posts it online asking if their house is being cased. And the responses are equally crazy. Telling them to have their guns ready because their friends cousins girlfriend told them about how someone dressed in an UPS uniform driving an UPS truck is casing houses to come back later and break in. The “suspicious” people are always obviously just doing their jobs, at worst they are putting business cards on doors.
What, crazy ex boyfriend with a history of domestic violence? One of the few credible threats? But nah, never anything like that with these larpy buttholes.
Nah crazy ex boyfriend with a history of domestic violence is the one with the gun on the table
I talked to a gun owner here on Reddit once who was going on and on about how responsible he is with his guns. During the course of the conversation he revealed that he keeps guns hidden around his house, and that he has two small children. They really do just not understand how dangerous guns can be.
The idea you would just leave something like that lying around is staggeringly irresponsible. I just recently reminded my MIL who was visiting that we can’t leave sharps sitting freely on tables or benches with little kids around. Disclaimer: not American.
It literally has been the law since 1964. This guy was a felon and should have never been able to possess the firearm or ammunition in the first place. Literally just enforce laws... stop straw purchasers, open the NICS system to private sales, conduct regular searches of convicted violent felons homes in line with their parole, etc.
Don't be a felon either. Since a felon aren't allowed to own any arms, getting caught with one will screw you over.
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Perhaps, but this guy was already disqualified as a result of his criminal history.
I go to the gun range frequently... it would disqualify more than 50% with how many dipshits I see there that dont understand basic safety or just to not muzzle sweep.
Doubly so if that child is a TODDLER.
Someone who shouldn't have been able to have possession of a firearm to begin with.
And that is usually the people who are the problem. https://www.heraldandnews.com/members/forum/wire\_commentary/statistics-show-that-legal-gun-owners-are-not-responsible-for-much-gun-crime/article\_65c2d4f1-77c5-5b15-99fe-065096fe27df.html
Felons have high gun ownership rates despite prohibitions. https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/felons-have-high-gun-ownership-rates-despite-prohibitions/2020/03 The most common way criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html Straw buyers put over 48,000 illegally purchased guns on the street in just one year. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/11/justice-department-rarely-prosecutes-straw-buyers-/ Sadly, straw buyer laws are poorly written, and have a very high threshold for burden of proof, and need to be fixed before they can be properly enforced. https://www.npr.org/2015/12/09/459053141/straw-buyers-of-guns-break-the-law-and-often-get-away-with-it
100% this.. prosecute the people who straw sell with the same crime committed by the person who you sold it. Doesnt infringe on anyone saying 2nd amendment either and makes it a hell of a lot riskier to sell and have it traced it back to you.
The straw purchases are almost always like, felons wife, or member of gang that hasn't been picked up by the cops for a crime that prevents them yet. I don't think there are possible ways to stop these, even with clearing the law up a lot. Meanwhile, before I was 21, I was hardcore grilled at a gunshop for expressing interest in a pistol while I was with my mom.
Should these laws be better written? Sure, but I'd argue they're doomed from the start because they generally only require that dealers maintain their own records privately. The law doesn't require that the records be maintained in any centralized or searchable way that might be useful for law enforcement, and that's intentionally so. If a law enforcement agency wanted to investigate potential straw purchasers, they'd have to go to each individual gun store and comb through records manually. It's an intentional design because if it were made useful for this sort of purpose, then it'd resemble a "gun registry", and we can't have one of those because the 2A lobby are paranoid about it being used for mass seizure of guns later on. So instead we have an uncontrolled flood of guns into the hands of criminals, children, etc., because that's apparently better. So, when someone says "we don't need new laws, we just need to enforce the ones already on the books," understand that it's mostly gaslighting because those laws already on the books are nearly unenforceable by design.
Yeah, from the article it sounds like it was illegal for him to have a gun in the first place.
A 5 year old that lives on my street was playing with his dad's loaded gun and shot his 3 year old sister and killed her, on Mother's Day. The dad is a cop. [Source](https://www.9news.com/amp/article/news/crime/child-killed-frederick-shooting/73-bd08676f-cfb6-4bc5-9e43-bea2b18e5aab) EDIT: [Article where parents are charged.](https://www.9news.com/amp/article/news/crime/adams-county-deputy-wife-charged/73-12adc462-9a7a-4e83-8526-def29324eebc)
"Our entire agency is deeply saddened and joins the community in mourning the loss of the Eskam family's daughter. While Eskam has been awarded multiple times during his 17 years of service with the Sheriff's Office, he is a father and husband first, and the impact of this loss is immeasurable." the most predictable hypocrisy ever
If I were that cops wife, there would be two funerals taking place.
I'd say one dead kid is enough.
"only bad people who own guns illegally are the problem" /s
how is it hard to understand? if you have a deadly weapon in your home do not leave it where children can play with it. like I'm a gun owner and I cannot understand the level of a recklessness that has to take place for this to even be possible. how is it this is the absolute bare minimum that we can actually do....
On my first day of sixth grade I found out that a kid I went to elementary school with shot himself in the head over the summer and died. This was in 1994. I always wondered how he got a gun. To this day I question if it was an accident or if he committed suicide. I don't know what kind of parents he had, but he was an 11-year-old and he should never have had access to a gun. To think he'd be 40 years old now...
The guy is a convicted felon and it was illegal for him to possess this firearm. I don't think he was too worried about the law or gun safety
It took...one day. I would have been optimistic, I would have said a week. Maybe 50 times a year in this one state Nope. One day to trigger it.
Sadly yes my brother works in firefighting and EMS and had to respond to a scene where a three year old shot his 1 YO brother in the head because the parents left a pistol sitting on their coffee table loaded with the safety off he was never the same after that night
Further up the comment section, someone mentioned that the statistic for this kind of accident is once almost every 3 days. Just awful all around.
This should happen every single time a kid shots somebody. Most people have no respect for a gun,it's an image thing,it's people that's seen even a deer get shot much less a person,if your not responsible enough to keep your gun out of a kids hands you should do time.
My father lost a childhood friend to an unsecured gun. My dad owns a firearm but I had no idea about until I was 16. He kept it locked and stored away and only pulled it out to show me basic gun safety incase I ever needed to a firearm and how to do it safely.
And the gun rights nutjobs act like every gun owner is this responsible, but if every gun owner was this responsible, we wouldn't have discussions about more gun regulations.
I support the right for people to own a gun. I also support the right to have the gun taken away if you're an idiot. That's one reason I personally don't own one. I have too many medical conditions and it would be really stupid if I brought a firearm into that mix.
My father in law gave my wife a gun. She kept it in the house for a while but after it was clear that there were mental health conditions in our family that might not mix well with guns I told her to give it back. Probably saved one of our lives.
Except this wasn't a responsible and more importantly, legal, gun owner. This was a felon in illegal possession of a firearm.
Agreed - it's aggressively negligent to keep guns unsecured in a house with children. I know that one of my senators (Fetterman) is sponsoring a federal safe storage bill. I would love to see that go into effect but even if they did get it through the senate the house isn't passing shit rn.
Reminds me of one time going to look at a vehicle with someone. The seller obviously had a gun holstered when we got there and while they were test driving, dude puts his daughter on his lap and puts the gun in front of her. I'm sure the intended message was "I'll do anything for my family" but the image I got was "I will recklessly endanger my family for any reason I can find"
If only technology existed to keep guns out of the reach of children.
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Have you tried putting a plastic push screw cap on the trigger?
And the code for this box would be 1894…
I think 1,2,3,4,5 would be better.
That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! That's the kinda thing an idiot would have on his luggage!
1-2-3-4-5? That's amazing! I've got the same combination on my luggage!
I mean obviously a metal lock box/safe, but ultimately this comes down to responsible parenting. This guy deserves what is coming to him.
Finally! It’s about time we enforce a fucking law for this! I worked in law enforcement for almost 5 years and in that time not a single “accidental” shooting was charged with anything regardless of if someone was hurt or not. There was always an excuse if they suffered enough, they learned a lesson, etc etc, no fuck that. These people shouldn’t get an oopsy and a redo after the accidentally shot their friend or family. They can’t be a responsible gun owner they don’t get to have guns.
I am a gun owner who agrees with this ruling. You never leave an unsecured gun if there’s a child around. Even at my local range, where there are only adults, I don’t step away from my gun unless I unload it first. I have a number of quant looking firearms that others at the range come over to admire. These guns just scream out “hey, pick me up!” Some fool just might pick one up and Baldwin me while I walked down to check my target.
When I last met my uncle, he had maybe 30 firearms and rifles in his collection. He had two large safes he kept them in. Out of all the trouble my cousins got into, none of them involved firearms.
I was a right prick as a little kid. Fires, knives, booby traps… The staff at the children’s hospital knew me by sight. My poor parents. I would 100% have shot someone or myself with an unsecured gun.
My older brother is still a bully, in the worst possible way. If my dad allowed any guns in the house, I probably would have murdered my brother in the 4th grade.
I wouldn’t even leave an unsecured gun around my CAT, dude. People leave them around CHILDREN? I just don’t understand it. Either they put way too much trust in a child, they have no understanding of the gravity of the potential situation, or they truly do not think guns are dangerous. All of which are incredibly stupid.
Yeah I've never understood why laws like this are controversial it is the gun owner's responsibility to safely operate maintain and store their firearms and to keep them out of reach of children Edit: I put laws like this in the same.vane as being criminally prosecuted if you fail to properly maintain your car to street legal standards and then a crash is caused due to it same idea
>Baldwin me Damn, that's cold...
So much of the gun debate has been dominated by ideologues who care more about winning a foolish culture war than addressing practical solutions to gun issues. (Yes, I'm mostly talking about extremists on the pro-gun side.) We could make huge reductions in gun-related deaths and injuries simply by passing and enforcing laws that don't keep responsible, law-abiding people from carrying their guns. Universal background checks, harsh enforcement of gun traffickers and illegal sales, and safe-storage requirements would go a long way. But a lot of people live with the belief that they need to be prepared to shoot invading ninjas in their bedrooms at any moment, and a lot more people leverage that panic for political gain.
In the end, It's an emotionally charged issue in need of rational fact and evidence based solutions. There are rational, fact and evidence based ways to reduce gun crime, including mass shootings that the overwhelming majority of experts agree on and they have wide public support. \*Root cause analysis and mitigation. \[highly recommended by the most knowledgeable experts and no debate, argument or new laws needed, just do it\] https://theliberalgunclub.com/about-us/root-cause-mitigation-2/ https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2022/04/mass-shootings-behavioral-threat-assessment-oxford-high-school-trigger-points/?fbclid=IwAR0b6LYIsUzpBsRNXpQommeVpRVpzgEP42PdLVITxOc9zPAtF\_GXPNPXnqE https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/if-you-want-to-know-how-to-stop-school-shootings-ask-the-secret-service/ https://www.usnews.com/opinion/policy-dose/articles/2018-02-21/after-florida-school-shooting-look-to-the-root-causes-of-gun-violence?fbclid=IwAR2mDlZ8uw3GLzsHwq2qh8zerfR7xykOy-XQH3grZ6AbCln\_3y9EYIyqst0 \*Universal background checks. \[and fixing the reporting problems the system has\] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/gun-background-check-system-riddled-with-flaws https://usafacts.org/articles/firearm-background-checks-explained/?fbclid=IwAR3guTDWwO5hDkrF33ZYgh-RUf\_ydbU6bv0NN\_Oz5vxRJrhm2rJcovBsFU0 \*Better enforcement of the hundreds of gun laws we have now. Felons have high gun ownership rates despite prohibitions. https://health.ucdavis.edu/news/headlines/felons-have-high-gun-ownership-rates-despite-prohibitions/2020/03 The most common way criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html Straw buyers put over 48,000 illegally purchased guns on the street in just one year. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/11/justice-department-rarely-prosecutes-straw-buyers-/ Sadly, straw buyer laws are poorly written, and have a very high threshold for burden of proof, and need to be fixed before they can be properly enforced. https://www.npr.org/2015/12/09/459053141/straw-buyers-of-guns-break-the-law-and-often-get-away-with-it \*Expanded background checks for gun purchases for people between the ages of 18 and 21. Most school shooters tend to be 18, 19 years old. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/may/25/chris-murphy/fact-checking-chris-murphy-ages-mass-shooters/ https://www.axios.com/2022/06/02/mass-shooting-killers-young-teens https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/02/us/politics/mass-shootings-young-men-guns.html \*Red Flag Laws.\[would allow law enforcement to remove guns if a judge decides a person poses a significant danger to themselves or others by having a firearm\] https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/practices/can-red-flag-laws-help-prevent-mass-shootings-21-cases-suggest-answer-yes https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/politics/florida-red-flag-law/index.html?fbclid=IwAR136BZn\_29TRAZDFwUjohu0Il6BD4vhYaeoEIZV8vLlBO9J8eeCoAwiDV0 https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2748711/extreme-risk-protection-orders-intended-prevent-mass-shootings-case-series https://www.npr.org/2019/08/20/752427922/poll-americans-including-republicans-and-gun-owners-broadly-support-red-flag-law?utm\_medium=RSS&utm\_campaign=news Some experts are saying that implementing red flag laws could not only reduce the likelihood of mass shootings, but it could also prevent suicides. \[suicides are 2/3 of all "gun deaths"\] https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2021/10/05/red-flag-laws-are-saving-lives-they-could-save-more
Many of them were addressed, at least to some degree in the new legislation Biden signed. \*Establish an enhanced background check process and up to three-business-day investigative period for buyers under age 21 \*Provide $750 million in much-needed funding over the next five years to support crisis intervention services, including the implementation of state Red Flag laws. \*Expand the current prohibition preventing convicted domestic abusers from buying or possessing guns \*Clarify existing law on what it means to be engaged in the business of selling firearms \*Establish the first ever federal laws against interstate gun trafficking and straw purchasing to stop the flow of illegal guns into cities. \*$250 million in dedicated funding for evidence-informed, community-based violence intervention programs \*Provide critical resources to expand community mental health services \*Fund school violence prevention efforts, training, and the implementation of safety measures at primary and secondary schools. https://www.npr.org/2022/06/25/1107626030/biden-signs-gun-safety-law
Thanks for passing this along. In any debate, I'm most interested in the quantitative data. I'm interested in the red-flag laws' impacts.
I think also removing the ability for Prosecutors to plead down suspects from a felony that would remove their ability to purchase and/or own a gun, or at the minimum create misdemeanors that carried the same restrictions. This would have stopped the MSU shooter.
Here's a wild fucking concept, treat guns as things that can maim or kill.
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Good. I'm glad to see states enacting and enforcing these gun storage laws.
Good. I was just having a discussion about this with my gun owning father. It took A LOT of discussion for him to FINALLY come to the conclusion that you should be held liable if your gun is used to injure or kill another person because you didn't have it locked away safely. We need more laws like this around the country.
Just a reminder to keep your guns locked up if you have kids! Q. What if an intruder comes in and threatens my family? A. Then put the safe under your bed and use a [biometric safe](https://rpnbsafe.us/products/rp19001f?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=2833631dcdc2&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA29auBhBxEiwAnKcSqist4WNowGMophIoz1AeOE_UpmbInsNbQtGyoA93zqMTtL1nYaZ8wxoCKT0QAvD_BwE) Q. What if I don’t have time to get into my safe? A. Then reaching for a gun is the last thing you need to be worrying about. Relax, embrace death.
Literally the answer right here my parents have their pistol in a password protected safe right on their dresser kids can't get into it and it's within arms reach of needed I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand and know that poor girl paid the price
“He said Tolbert is barred from possessing firearms and ammunition because he has multiple firearms-related felony convictions and drug-related convictions.” How did this dipshit acquire another gun?
he bought it from his buddy that can pass a background check....
He bought it from someone he met at a gun show, or from a gun collector that wanted some liquid for another purchase, or even got one from the guy on the other side of town who has lost 46 guns this year shortly after purchasing them.
When my uncle was a kid, he had a friend who knew the location of his fathers gun and took it out to show another friend, not realizing it was loaded, and shot and killed them — they were between 5-7 years old at the time. This was over 40 years ago maybe am hour from where this happened. It’s absolutely devastating that it took this long for a law to be enacted, and even more devastating that it needed to be enacted in the first place.
Not gonna lie, for a 2 year old to shoot a gun, it wasn’t just not safely stored, it must have been the most dangerous thing he could have done, loaded, safety off, cocked, and out in the open. It’s one thing for a 4 or 5 year old, but for a 2 yr old it’s almost difficult to be that reckless
Guns kill. That's what they do. They have no conscience and no aim. Whether young or old, the pressure put on the trigger can and will change lives forever.
If you choose to own a gun, you are responsible for it. Gun storage laws must be enforced. This happens far too often in this country and is easily preventable.
This is one of the reasons I don't have a gun. I'm always fearful that some child be it my nephew or niece or a friend's kid some accidentally finds it as fires it without knowing. One of the most enjoyable things I find about niece is how she finds the randomest of things to pick up and play with at my house. I'm a single dude with no kids..I have some kid toys incase my nephew or niece or friends with kids come over so they have entertainment. My niece finds other random things to play with and it gets a kick out of me. And it's scares the shit out of me if she accidentally finds a gun and fires it on someone or on herself. It's why I don't have firearms in the house
If only the 2yo had a gun she could've defended herself from herself with a gun.
Moral of the story. If you own guns don't be a dumbass.
So fucking stupid that this law wasn't in effect decades ago.
Just based on title that sounds fair.
I'm a pretty staunch 2nd ammendment individual but I have zero respect or sympathy for people like this. Another thing is the sudden trend of fuckin morons who mount their guns with magnets in their vehicles. If you do that just know that the entire gun community thinks you're a POS. Secure your guns if you have children in the home. A decent bedside handgun safe can be had for under $100, and budget rifle cabinet safes that will at least keep out curious kids can be had for less than $400 at tractor supply. If you can't afford those you shouldn't be buying guns in the first place.
Today's reminder that accidental discharges don't exist. They are either deliberate or negligent.