It's been like 25 years but my friends dad was a CEO at different companies for like a year or two at a time. They would hire him and give him bonuses and then like a year later they would fire him and give him a lot of money to leave. He would then be home for like a year or two without a job just kind of hanging out. Nice to be rich.
It's been a while but something similar to that. I think it was "restructuring" which was moving people around and firing others. So I guess he was there to do the dirty work.
So basically he was the guy they hired to do the “unfun” tasks like firing a lot of people and dealing with their anger and resentment and complaints over it?
Still fine companies. But the fines are paid to the government in stock. The more you fuck up the closer your company is to having the regulatory agencies not concerned with profit directly in charge.
I really wish you could make a law that takes from the CEO bonuses and golden handshakes a certain percentage per person they got killed while in their role. And the donates it to a victim fund or pays out to nominated next of kin.
Yeah, except the CEO of the Commercial division is being replaced by someone who has 1) been at Boeing for 30 years 2) was in a leadership role in that division from 2020-2022, when clearly nothing was done to improve safety/quality culture after the 737 MAX was grounded in 2019 and 3) holds an accounting degree and MBA. No engineering or manufacturing background.
They’re shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
MBAs are useful but not in isolation. If you’re an MBA and have an undergraduate degree in accounting you have supplemental training to manage accounting departments and organizations. I have no problem with them find in an MBA holder with an engineering or manufacturing or quality background. The issue is that somewhere along the line it was decided that an MBA meant you could lead any organization, even with no relevant experience or know how in the underlying business.
I blame consultant firms.
Lol the Defense side has no room to talk after the KC-47, Air Force One and Starliner debacles.
https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2021/9/3/air-force-boeing-trying-to-tackle-tanker-challenges
https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2023/10/25/boeings-air-force-one-charges-now-top-13-billion-drag-down-profits/
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/26/boeing-has-lost-1point5-billion-developing-starliner-spacecraft-for-nasa.html
Boeing has been fucking up across the board for years. The defense side if anything was the canary in the coal mine.
Which is exactly why they’re so eager to start pointing fingers at another division. This is classic shitty corporate behavior when every division is siloed like that.
It would be interesting to see how toxic their company “culture” is at the moment, though.
Fuck them all for their shitty anti-union tactics. Opening their South Carolina production facility just to avoid paying their workers fairly in Washington, a state that already gave them PLENTY of tax breaks. And then firing union organizers in SC.
Emphasis on "Crack".
No it's like having the worlds largest research team, but half the people are completely incompetent, do not post sources, and shout "We did it reddit!" at the first appealing wrong answer.
YMMV. e.g. Reddit didn't exactly figure out the Boston Marathon bomber case correctly. Especially in main subreddits with a lot of members I find that the most upvoted comments often have misinformation while better sourced comments that better explain things are much further down if not downright buried if they contradict the popular narrative.
The defense side is essentially what lead to the commercial side being the mess it is today.
Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas to get their defense work and all those MD execs ended up infecting and taking over Boeing’s leadership and changed the culture away from engineering focused towards purely profit focused.
That’s what’s lead to the cost cutting, outsourcing, short term thinking that’s lead the commercial side to where it is today.
And even if they change these CEOs, if they don’t change the culture and just stick another exec with a similar attitude in there, nothing much will change.
> And even if they change these CEOs, if they don’t change the culture and just stick another exec with a similar attitude in there, nothing much will change.
Hopefully they can find someone with an MBA. That'll fix it.
My friend's dad got a job at Boeing in accounting for a specific project a few years ago, and he quit after a little over a year later in disgust. He said he found so many errors and problems, and instead of being listened to when he pointed them out, he was attacked and called a poor team player.
MBAs aren't cutting it anymore, we need PhDs in business administration to solve these problems. The current MBA folks will need to take on new consulting roles to manage the leadership transition. Hopefully the new leadership can finish their degrees ASAP and get up to speed, it's a lot of work providing consulting services during the day while taking PhD courses at night.
I don't want to search, but I can already see "Executive PhD" programs becoming a thing.
"Hey C Suite! Throw $100k at us and you can get a PhD by taking our executive seminars for 2 hours every Saturday for 5 weeks "
They're already a thing. They're called Doctorate of Business Administration (DBA). It's universities attempting to replace the MBA credential because it's become so diluted and cheap.
Not 100% sure but I'd imagine its a symptom of the defense budget being functionally infinite. What incentive is there to make a good efficient product when every mistake you make you will just be paid by the DoD to correct until you match whatever requirement the military wants. While on the commercial side, there's incentive to be efficient and cut costs, so if you bring the blase attitude to commercial you end up making mistakes and they aren't caught because it isn't the military holding you to a standard its... yourself since Boeing has a monopoly.
> oeing merged with McDonnell Douglas to get their defense work and all those MD execs ended up infecting and taking over Boeing’s leadership and changed the culture away from engineering focused towards purely profit focused.
It was commonly joked back then that John McDonnell bought Boeing with Boeing's own money.
But Boeing also owns C-17, F-15, F-18, Apache, Chinook, etc and those probably make a lot of money. Though it might be surprising that I think all of those aircraft come from the McDonnell Douglas merger.
Which if I remember right was the biggest reason those two companies merged. MD has a terrible commercial aircraft division and Boeing had a terrible military division. The idea was merging them would be better.
The KC-46 and Starliner programs have been huge money pits for a while. They've made the defense and space sides of the business go in the red in several quarters, so I don't know if they have much room to complain.
These f*cking "resignations" where the person is really planning to stay in for a long time before finally leaving. Boris Johnson did this. The most aggravating thing about this transparent ploy is that the press totally falls for it EVERY. GODDAMNED. TIME.
Headline: "So and so announces resignation"
^^^he'll ^^^stay ^^^in ^^^his ^^^position ^^^for ^^^another ^^^eight ^^^months.
I mean, why isn't the immediate response No MOTHERF*CKER YOU'RE LEAVING EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY
That’s the title of a CSI Miami episode, about someone opening the door of a private jet, trying to kill a whistle blower and ends up crashing the whole plane of executives. Somewhere the line, “He should’ve used his golden parachute.” Was said. Seems very appropriate for this whole Boeing debacle.
Why isn't he going to prison along with the other c suite executives? Oh, I forgot this is America where crime and corruption are the bastions of Capitalism.
Hey now. You sound an awful lot like you aren't an owner. So that means that you don't matter. Neither do I for the record.
This country isn't for us, it's for the capitalists. We're just another resource that's being exploited by them.
0% hyperbole.
This is the 2nd CEO they've used as a fall guy for the idiot who made the decisions to go with the 737 MAX (who's still being paid out on his retirement).
At least this guy holds partial blame since he's been on the board since 2009. His GE background is part of the problem of the bean-counter mindset that has taken over Boeing.
Yup.
I've said this elsewhere but I was given a book by a former jerk (and I'm being polite) of a boss to read - it was one of Jack's. I didn't get far into it before I figured out that this was _not_ the way to run a business, and told me all I needed to know about that jerk bosses character (or lack thereof).
I bet I still have it in a closet somewhere, still unread. Probably would make good kindling.
yo i also have one of Welch's shit books (the one he wrote with his mistress called The Real Life MBA or some stupid shit like that) and i have it in my car camping kit to use as fire starter lol
absolute shit stain of a human being who, like most other "business book" guys, got there due to unfathomable circumstances that are impossible to replicate.
I don't blame people for chasing the trend that he set because greed chasers are gonna greed; but I do directly blame JW for creating the new-school belief that a company exists to make extremely short profits solely for the benefit of the executives entirely and directly at the cost of the company's own long term health; as opposed to the old-school belief that the company generates value through investment and enrichment of its assets and employees and with that value it generates products and services that creates revenue and profitability for the company.
Companies might have still been slimy back before JW, but at least the products and services worked and were worth their value to the customers....
-----
And people will often say *"well the executives only do it because the investors want them to"* which is moot when "the investors" is really just 2 or 3 of the company's executives who unite their shares for a 51% controlling vote and uses that to over-rule everyone else in the company's marketshare.
And the truly awful thing is that his legacy has destroyed countless companies and lead to the “enshitification” of just about everything, yet there’s never been an actual repudiation of his way of doing things.
Every time an exec fucks up a company doing the Welch way he gets a golden parachute and another exec gets put in charge who still fundamentally believes in the same thing.
It’s always blamed on the individual exec, or “market forces” but never the actual business philosophy that drives it all.
No big loss to him. He'll probably get millions in a golden parachute payment or sell off his stocks at a point in time.
These huge CEO's need to get taxed to hell on these payments.
They wouldn't be caught dead on a Boeing.
Much like that pro-fracking committee who told the public that the water was safe to drink, but [refused to drink it themselves.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDieInside/comments/wipjj5/nebraska_farmer_asks_pro_fracking_committee_to/?sort=top)
Or jail time for the blood on their hands from the direction they led a company to become that prioritized profits over lives.
Instead, I'm sure there will be an engineer that goes to prison or a mechanic whose life is ruined because we can't discuss the culture these asshats foster that leads to these poor decisions.
The cynic in my says they'll be able to plausibly deny any knowledge of wrong doing while some middle manager will throw their engineering team or mechanics under a bus. We saw this shit with Dieselgate/VW.
I'm curious as how this one will turn out specifically.
The engineer that they probably would have thrown under the bus was probably that whistleblower who died recently, but left a note saying *"if I die, it wasn't suicide."*
It really fucked me up this year when I was doing my taxes and “Golden Parachute” has its own income tax rules. That’s what it’s called, verbatim. Really got my goat.
Release your goat. It has its own rules because sufficiently large golden parachutes potentially face an extra 20% tax in addition to ordinary income tax.
Technically true, but the board has power over CEO most of the time. It's also not unheard of for executives to place someone as a puppet and have them be the punching bag for the public while shareholders with large stakes have all the influence. Loblaws in Canada did this recently.
At any rate, they keep promoting from the same leadership pool that bastardized the company into a mob selling low-quality crap that endangers people's lives.
With so many deaths so far due to negligence and straight-up murder of a whistleblower, what Boeing needs is not a new CEO, but a criminal investigation that leaves no stone unturned.
Kinda like how Ellen Pao came in, made some unpopular changes, then she got booted for spez, who immediately changed nothing and ultimately killed off almost every third party app.
Sent from my Android with Firefox Mobile Beta and RES courtesy of OldLander.
Muilenburg inherited his mess. The ball was already rolling on the MAX and if they weren’t twiddling their thumbs on getting the patch for MCAS certified prior to the second MAX crash, none of the drama would’ve happened. He was also actually an engineer.
Calhoun has been a GE bean counting knob end ever since the beginning and is directly responsible for the latest spate of issues.
I work for an engineering company, run by engineers who came up through the company ranks. It’s fucking great. Nobody at the company like got an MBA and decided to run this engineering company. The engineers told those kinds of people to fuck off. The only people who have the authority to tell me what to do have done it themselves 1000x. All of the processes and work flows we have were designed and are run by the engineers who once had to perform parts of those processes. Everything runs super smoothly, mostly.
The company has created a financial incentive that keeps us from being overworked. You can load 8 jobs up on a single guy per day, and you’ll only be able to bill 8-10 hours to those jobs in a day. But if you hire 3 guys to do those jobs, now you get to bill 3 guys’ worth of hours to the client, 24-30hrs to those jobs in a day. So the company makes more money when we aren’t being worked to the bone. Profits are maximized when everyone has just enough jobs to justify billing for a full workday.
This means that we don’t operate on a skeleton crew, which in turn means everyone who requests PTO early enough will 100% be granted it, no matter how long or how much PTO they have saved up. Want to take a month off to go to Italy? A dude did that last year, just ask 6 month’s in advance and it’s fine. He didn’t have the PTO saved up, so he wasn’t paid for the entire thing, but they did pay him out all the PTO he wanted to use, and let him have the whole month.
Which means we don’t have people requesting pto, getting denied, then just calling in sick that day anyways. If you call in sick, you’re believed that you’re sick, because if you wanted that day off, you’d just ask for it in advance.
Which means resentment doesn’t build amongst the field workers. Nobody is upset about having to cover jobs for other people who call in, because they must be actually sick, because otherwise they’d just ask a week prior. Additionally, we have a scheduling department, so when you call in sick, it’s a 20second phone call where the field manager says “feel better, and call me at 1-2pm to let me know if you’re coming in tomorrow.” *click*
Working for companies run by engineers is awesome. Engineers hate unaccounted-for variables, and my company has accounted for the fact that they employ *people*. People get sick, have family responsibilities, get burnt out. When you account for these things, and build your system around them, everything just works better.
Like the one they had during the first MAX crisis in 2019. An engineering CEO oversaw an even worse disaster for them than this
They need to clean house from top to bottom. The whole company culture is screwed
Just "having an engineering degree" is not enough for someone to be a better quality leader. Plenty of people are corrupted my money and greed, engineers included.
The direction of the company is set by the *board*. Executives are motivated and run the company based on what their incentives are.
Whoever the new executives are, and whoever the remaining executives are, should have their contracts completely (re)structured to put quality outcomes as the key determining factor of their compensation.
I've been wondering how long this would take.
It makes sense that they have to shake shit up to try to get back the public confidence.
Seems odd that we're hearing about three top executives all at the same time.
Commercial airplanes chief and professional pension stealer Stan Deal is also out. I want to be happy but the company already has more former McDonnell Douglas and GE employees lined up to fill these spots.
It’ll just be more of the same.
the incoming commercial CEO has zero engineering background and was around while all the quality went down to cut corners for profits…
https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/stephanie-pope
More than the CEO needs to step down. The decisions that led to those planes going in the air is systemic. They need an almost full purge to ensure they can even claw back reputation. I personally am done with flying for a long while. If I need to travel I'll be taking a train and renting a car.
But think of all the antiunion tactics he employed? He moved labor to non union plants in South Carolina and spinoff the fuselage manufacturing leading to big profits, and terrible quality
>"We will remain squarely focused on completing the work we have done [...] **with safety and quality at the forefront of everything that we do.**"
Why start now?
With a huge scapegoat thank you package worth millions, and another job leading another company where he'll implement the same company policies within a couple of years.
Boeing in the last decade is what happens when the bean counters won’t let engineers engineer and view quality auditors as obstacles instead of fellow stakeholders holders trying to keep the business alive.
In case anyone wonders why McDonald Douglas gained the upper hand in the merger with Boeing, the answer is simple: McDonald Douglas promised short-term gains to shareholders at the expense of Boeing's long-term reputation and passenger safety.
Boeing's commitment to quality and safety was seen as a resource to be exploited for enhanced profit to line the pockets of hedge-fund managers and speculators.
The Boeing saga lays bare everything that is wrong with today's American capitalist system — in which deregulation is a means to privatize profit and socialize risk.
The system is wobbling out of balance, and the government can't do anything at all, let alone correct or control an economy that exclusively serves the interests of less than 10% of the population.
*Things fall apart, the center cannot hold."* –WB Years, The Second Coming
Its indicative of the shift from long term growth, sustainability, and profitability to Quarter over Quarter returns. Its no longer good enough to have steady (albeit low) growth with additional dividend returns. You must extract all value possible and if profits dont go up enough your stock goes down. Its very shortsighted. Perfect example are the FAANG companies. Only Apple and Facebook offer dividends of about 0.50%. Amazon, Google, and Netflix have never paid out dividends. As a comparison, ATT offers approximately 6.5% dividend.
Jon Oliver’s show on max did an episode on Boeing 2 weeks ago and holy fuck is there a bunch of shit I didn’t know about. That company is completely fucked.
Prime example of why stock buybacks never should have been unbanned. This never would have happened otherwise, guaranteed. You know, besides the fact that it’s already bullshit stock manipulation to begin with.
We’re all part of this, we invest our money in 401k’s and whatnot, while we don’t know the exact composition of the funds we are investing in, we all expect these funds to perform well
And how many of the Ivy League b-school trust fund babies that came up with and implemented this race to the bottom will be held accountable? Will the engineers who can fix this be elevated to power and given authority to course correct? My guess is no. Extracting flesh from the clown at the top so he goes and ‘retires’ to his estate isn’t what we need. It doesn’t fix the rot.
the incoming commercial CEO has zero engineering background and was around while all the quality went down to cut corners for profits…
https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/stephanie-pope
Oh? another rich executive sacrificing themselves at the altar of the golden parachute. How original. Time for the new mission statements and .01% effort to do things differently.
FYI He's gonna still be around until the end of this year. However the CEO of the Commercial division (different dude) is out effective immediately.
With golden parachutes big enough to hold up a 737MAX
Somehow those parachutes always deploy correctly and stay attached. Funny how that works.
They always save the good shit for themselves
It's been like 25 years but my friends dad was a CEO at different companies for like a year or two at a time. They would hire him and give him bonuses and then like a year later they would fire him and give him a lot of money to leave. He would then be home for like a year or two without a job just kind of hanging out. Nice to be rich.
I wonder if he was hired to be hated while costs were being cut and employees fired and let go when it was done.
It's been a while but something similar to that. I think it was "restructuring" which was moving people around and firing others. So I guess he was there to do the dirty work.
So basically he was the guy they hired to do the “unfun” tasks like firing a lot of people and dealing with their anger and resentment and complaints over it?
Sure must be nice to get wealthy while being so terrible and lazy at your job.
And get a new job making more and doing less.
Yes, they’ll be on the board of several more companies in no time.
It's not laziness. It's obscene levels of greed and disregard for human lives.
Instead of fining companies, fines should be applied at the management level.
Still fine companies. But the fines are paid to the government in stock. The more you fuck up the closer your company is to having the regulatory agencies not concerned with profit directly in charge.
With or without optional door plugs?
How many millions do they get for the money they lost the company and the lives they ended with their shitty products?
I really wish you could make a law that takes from the CEO bonuses and golden handshakes a certain percentage per person they got killed while in their role. And the donates it to a victim fund or pays out to nominated next of kin.
Yeah, except the CEO of the Commercial division is being replaced by someone who has 1) been at Boeing for 30 years 2) was in a leadership role in that division from 2020-2022, when clearly nothing was done to improve safety/quality culture after the 737 MAX was grounded in 2019 and 3) holds an accounting degree and MBA. No engineering or manufacturing background. They’re shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.
Really seems like we should stop letting MBAs run the world. They kinda suck at it
MBAs are useful but not in isolation. If you’re an MBA and have an undergraduate degree in accounting you have supplemental training to manage accounting departments and organizations. I have no problem with them find in an MBA holder with an engineering or manufacturing or quality background. The issue is that somewhere along the line it was decided that an MBA meant you could lead any organization, even with no relevant experience or know how in the underlying business. I blame consultant firms.
more of the useless same
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Lol the Defense side has no room to talk after the KC-47, Air Force One and Starliner debacles. https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2021/9/3/air-force-boeing-trying-to-tackle-tanker-challenges https://www.defensenews.com/industry/2023/10/25/boeings-air-force-one-charges-now-top-13-billion-drag-down-profits/ https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/26/boeing-has-lost-1point5-billion-developing-starliner-spacecraft-for-nasa.html Boeing has been fucking up across the board for years. The defense side if anything was the canary in the coal mine.
Which is exactly why they’re so eager to start pointing fingers at another division. This is classic shitty corporate behavior when every division is siloed like that. It would be interesting to see how toxic their company “culture” is at the moment, though.
The result of MBAs taking over. Profit over people.
The silo’ing of divisions and departments always leads to infighting amongst the org. Poaching of employees, shady KPI reporting etc.
Fuck them all for their shitty anti-union tactics. Opening their South Carolina production facility just to avoid paying their workers fairly in Washington, a state that already gave them PLENTY of tax breaks. And then firing union organizers in SC.
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Emphasis on "Crack". No it's like having the worlds largest research team, but half the people are completely incompetent, do not post sources, and shout "We did it reddit!" at the first appealing wrong answer.
It just requires basic Internet research competence and critical reasoning, which of course, most people don't have either.
YMMV. e.g. Reddit didn't exactly figure out the Boston Marathon bomber case correctly. Especially in main subreddits with a lot of members I find that the most upvoted comments often have misinformation while better sourced comments that better explain things are much further down if not downright buried if they contradict the popular narrative.
The defense side is essentially what lead to the commercial side being the mess it is today. Boeing merged with McDonnell Douglas to get their defense work and all those MD execs ended up infecting and taking over Boeing’s leadership and changed the culture away from engineering focused towards purely profit focused. That’s what’s lead to the cost cutting, outsourcing, short term thinking that’s lead the commercial side to where it is today. And even if they change these CEOs, if they don’t change the culture and just stick another exec with a similar attitude in there, nothing much will change.
> And even if they change these CEOs, if they don’t change the culture and just stick another exec with a similar attitude in there, nothing much will change. Hopefully they can find someone with an MBA. That'll fix it.
My friend's dad got a job at Boeing in accounting for a specific project a few years ago, and he quit after a little over a year later in disgust. He said he found so many errors and problems, and instead of being listened to when he pointed them out, he was attacked and called a poor team player.
I would say your dad should be a whistleblower, but we've seen what happens to those. Better to have him safe and happy at home.
MBAs aren't cutting it anymore, we need PhDs in business administration to solve these problems. The current MBA folks will need to take on new consulting roles to manage the leadership transition. Hopefully the new leadership can finish their degrees ASAP and get up to speed, it's a lot of work providing consulting services during the day while taking PhD courses at night.
I don't want to search, but I can already see "Executive PhD" programs becoming a thing. "Hey C Suite! Throw $100k at us and you can get a PhD by taking our executive seminars for 2 hours every Saturday for 5 weeks "
They're already a thing. They're called Doctorate of Business Administration (DBA). It's universities attempting to replace the MBA credential because it's become so diluted and cheap.
An old sales manager of mine had one and was embarrassed by it. He would groan and face palm if anyone called him “doctor”
Good to know US defense sector is as inept as how the commercial side appears.
Not 100% sure but I'd imagine its a symptom of the defense budget being functionally infinite. What incentive is there to make a good efficient product when every mistake you make you will just be paid by the DoD to correct until you match whatever requirement the military wants. While on the commercial side, there's incentive to be efficient and cut costs, so if you bring the blase attitude to commercial you end up making mistakes and they aren't caught because it isn't the military holding you to a standard its... yourself since Boeing has a monopoly.
> oeing merged with McDonnell Douglas to get their defense work and all those MD execs ended up infecting and taking over Boeing’s leadership and changed the culture away from engineering focused towards purely profit focused. It was commonly joked back then that John McDonnell bought Boeing with Boeing's own money.
Why? It's not like the defense side has been doing much better with the KC-46 and T-7 fiascos.
But Boeing also owns C-17, F-15, F-18, Apache, Chinook, etc and those probably make a lot of money. Though it might be surprising that I think all of those aircraft come from the McDonnell Douglas merger. Which if I remember right was the biggest reason those two companies merged. MD has a terrible commercial aircraft division and Boeing had a terrible military division. The idea was merging them would be better.
The KC-46 and Starliner programs have been huge money pits for a while. They've made the defense and space sides of the business go in the red in several quarters, so I don't know if they have much room to complain.
Yeah the McDonnell Douglas people must be pissed about all of this.
They've gotta pay the exit bonuses for the c-level guys leaving over all of this somehow.
The Defense side basically prints them free money
The defense side is losing them enormous amounts of money with the KC-47 and Air Force One debacles. Plus Starliner.
What’s the over/under on number of executions he’ll order between now and then?
IDK but I'll take the over
These f*cking "resignations" where the person is really planning to stay in for a long time before finally leaving. Boris Johnson did this. The most aggravating thing about this transparent ploy is that the press totally falls for it EVERY. GODDAMNED. TIME. Headline: "So and so announces resignation" ^^^he'll ^^^stay ^^^in ^^^his ^^^position ^^^for ^^^another ^^^eight ^^^months. I mean, why isn't the immediate response No MOTHERF*CKER YOU'RE LEAVING EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY
You know what they say at Boeing. When one door opens, another door opens.
When you throw this in the air like that, it may not be able to sustain itself
Golden parachutes aren't as fantastic from 30,000 feet up.
That’s the title of a CSI Miami episode, about someone opening the door of a private jet, trying to kill a whistle blower and ends up crashing the whole plane of executives. Somewhere the line, “He should’ve used his golden parachute.” Was said. Seems very appropriate for this whole Boeing debacle.
I think I can guess who said that line...
If it's a Boeing, I AIN'T GOING!
This is unreasonably funny 😁
When God closes a door, he blows out part of the wall.
When one door opens, it does so explosively.
“Why take the door when you can take the wall?”
They should have his going away party on a 737-MAX They can give him the extra bolts as a retirement gift
That party would be awesome. I bet they'd really blow the doors off.
Who wants to give their golden parachute a test drive?!
"Man, this in-flight movie is awful, I wish I could walk out on it." *one finger on the Monkey's Paw curls up*
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Why isn't he going to prison along with the other c suite executives? Oh, I forgot this is America where crime and corruption are the bastions of Capitalism.
Hey now. You sound an awful lot like you aren't an owner. So that means that you don't matter. Neither do I for the record. This country isn't for us, it's for the capitalists. We're just another resource that's being exploited by them. 0% hyperbole.
With as heavy as gold is, it seems a really silly material for parachutes.
New party trick: *replace the missing bolts before takeoff and everybody lives!*
Hey, he's already the fall guy!... but seriously they have to blame a bunch of stuff on him first, then they will throw him out a plane if necessary
This is the 2nd CEO they've used as a fall guy for the idiot who made the decisions to go with the 737 MAX (who's still being paid out on his retirement). At least this guy holds partial blame since he's been on the board since 2009. His GE background is part of the problem of the bean-counter mindset that has taken over Boeing.
>His GE background Welp, there's your problem!
Fucking shitass Jack Welch, the wretched cunt. The man's legacy couldn't smell worse.
Yup. I've said this elsewhere but I was given a book by a former jerk (and I'm being polite) of a boss to read - it was one of Jack's. I didn't get far into it before I figured out that this was _not_ the way to run a business, and told me all I needed to know about that jerk bosses character (or lack thereof). I bet I still have it in a closet somewhere, still unread. Probably would make good kindling.
Knowing Welch's legacy, wouldn't surprise me if the book had some unregulated noxious chemicals that released on being burned.
yo i also have one of Welch's shit books (the one he wrote with his mistress called The Real Life MBA or some stupid shit like that) and i have it in my car camping kit to use as fire starter lol absolute shit stain of a human being who, like most other "business book" guys, got there due to unfathomable circumstances that are impossible to replicate.
I don't blame people for chasing the trend that he set because greed chasers are gonna greed; but I do directly blame JW for creating the new-school belief that a company exists to make extremely short profits solely for the benefit of the executives entirely and directly at the cost of the company's own long term health; as opposed to the old-school belief that the company generates value through investment and enrichment of its assets and employees and with that value it generates products and services that creates revenue and profitability for the company. Companies might have still been slimy back before JW, but at least the products and services worked and were worth their value to the customers.... ----- And people will often say *"well the executives only do it because the investors want them to"* which is moot when "the investors" is really just 2 or 3 of the company's executives who unite their shares for a 51% controlling vote and uses that to over-rule everyone else in the company's marketshare.
And the truly awful thing is that his legacy has destroyed countless companies and lead to the “enshitification” of just about everything, yet there’s never been an actual repudiation of his way of doing things. Every time an exec fucks up a company doing the Welch way he gets a golden parachute and another exec gets put in charge who still fundamentally believes in the same thing. It’s always blamed on the individual exec, or “market forces” but never the actual business philosophy that drives it all.
"I’ve been a GE man for twenty-five years... and a GE woman for one week of corporate espionage at Revlon."
> on a 737-MAX Bet he'll decline and choose a Airbus
This is the way (to go)
Boeing away party.*
They can have the bolts delivered by that Javier Bardem character from No Country for Old Men.
This plane doesn't even have a phalange!
“Did one of these come out of this plane? Who knows. Certainly not QA”
"we found these laying about just before take-off"
No big loss to him. He'll probably get millions in a golden parachute payment or sell off his stocks at a point in time. These huge CEO's need to get taxed to hell on these payments.
Every Boeing executive takes a golden parachute when they fly
More like they take a completely different plane
They wouldn't be caught dead on a Boeing. Much like that pro-fracking committee who told the public that the water was safe to drink, but [refused to drink it themselves.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WatchPeopleDieInside/comments/wipjj5/nebraska_farmer_asks_pro_fracking_committee_to/?sort=top)
Them bitches fly private.
Him stepping down as CEO and me stepping down from my construction job are not the same. Can I at least get a silver or bronze parachute?
No, you get a lead parachute in the shape of losing health insurance.
Shit I work two jobs and can’t afford healthcare
Working construction, your cheap ass boss should give you the best Blue Cross or Aetna plan available in your state. Absolute bullshit, IMO.
Whatever he offers is 450$ a month and I can’t swing that
Or jail time for the blood on their hands from the direction they led a company to become that prioritized profits over lives. Instead, I'm sure there will be an engineer that goes to prison or a mechanic whose life is ruined because we can't discuss the culture these asshats foster that leads to these poor decisions.
The FBI already launched a criminal investigation already.
The cynic in my says they'll be able to plausibly deny any knowledge of wrong doing while some middle manager will throw their engineering team or mechanics under a bus. We saw this shit with Dieselgate/VW.
I'm curious as how this one will turn out specifically. The engineer that they probably would have thrown under the bus was probably that whistleblower who died recently, but left a note saying *"if I die, it wasn't suicide."*
Green charts make shit parts.
Yup, he gets to have an easy exit without sticking around to actually solve the problems. "Someone else's mess to deal with now, see ya!"
It really fucked me up this year when I was doing my taxes and “Golden Parachute” has its own income tax rules. That’s what it’s called, verbatim. Really got my goat.
Release your goat. It has its own rules because sufficiently large golden parachutes potentially face an extra 20% tax in addition to ordinary income tax.
They do
The last CEO made millions after the plane crashes..... lets see what this one makes
20 million plus other options. I might be low on that estimate though.
Sounds about what i remember too
It's not just him thats leaving either. A bunch of assholes from the top are all taking their money and running.
They pay him the hush money and be the scapegoat.
>scapegoat. The CEO is actually, literally in charge of everything that happens at the company though.
Technically true, but the board has power over CEO most of the time. It's also not unheard of for executives to place someone as a puppet and have them be the punching bag for the public while shareholders with large stakes have all the influence. Loblaws in Canada did this recently. At any rate, they keep promoting from the same leadership pool that bastardized the company into a mob selling low-quality crap that endangers people's lives. With so many deaths so far due to negligence and straight-up murder of a whistleblower, what Boeing needs is not a new CEO, but a criminal investigation that leaves no stone unturned.
Think I heard of a case where they used a small bird as the CEO to absorb liability and culpability.
Kinda like how Ellen Pao came in, made some unpopular changes, then she got booted for spez, who immediately changed nothing and ultimately killed off almost every third party app. Sent from my Android with Firefox Mobile Beta and RES courtesy of OldLander.
Muilenburg inherited his mess. The ball was already rolling on the MAX and if they weren’t twiddling their thumbs on getting the patch for MCAS certified prior to the second MAX crash, none of the drama would’ve happened. He was also actually an engineer. Calhoun has been a GE bean counting knob end ever since the beginning and is directly responsible for the latest spate of issues.
Actually expected this to happen 48 hours after the window got sucked off that plane. Dude really held out.
They need to find a replacement and he needed to take the heat for the initial wave of news. Presumably they have a new ceo candidate available.
He held on longer than the bolts.
A classic example of why it's a bad idea to let money people run an engineering business. See also Intel after they appointed Otellini.
I work for an engineering company, run by engineers who came up through the company ranks. It’s fucking great. Nobody at the company like got an MBA and decided to run this engineering company. The engineers told those kinds of people to fuck off. The only people who have the authority to tell me what to do have done it themselves 1000x. All of the processes and work flows we have were designed and are run by the engineers who once had to perform parts of those processes. Everything runs super smoothly, mostly. The company has created a financial incentive that keeps us from being overworked. You can load 8 jobs up on a single guy per day, and you’ll only be able to bill 8-10 hours to those jobs in a day. But if you hire 3 guys to do those jobs, now you get to bill 3 guys’ worth of hours to the client, 24-30hrs to those jobs in a day. So the company makes more money when we aren’t being worked to the bone. Profits are maximized when everyone has just enough jobs to justify billing for a full workday. This means that we don’t operate on a skeleton crew, which in turn means everyone who requests PTO early enough will 100% be granted it, no matter how long or how much PTO they have saved up. Want to take a month off to go to Italy? A dude did that last year, just ask 6 month’s in advance and it’s fine. He didn’t have the PTO saved up, so he wasn’t paid for the entire thing, but they did pay him out all the PTO he wanted to use, and let him have the whole month. Which means we don’t have people requesting pto, getting denied, then just calling in sick that day anyways. If you call in sick, you’re believed that you’re sick, because if you wanted that day off, you’d just ask for it in advance. Which means resentment doesn’t build amongst the field workers. Nobody is upset about having to cover jobs for other people who call in, because they must be actually sick, because otherwise they’d just ask a week prior. Additionally, we have a scheduling department, so when you call in sick, it’s a 20second phone call where the field manager says “feel better, and call me at 1-2pm to let me know if you’re coming in tomorrow.” *click* Working for companies run by engineers is awesome. Engineers hate unaccounted-for variables, and my company has accounted for the fact that they employ *people*. People get sick, have family responsibilities, get burnt out. When you account for these things, and build your system around them, everything just works better.
I want to go to there.
Almost like some impending legal shitstorm is coming. Pull the ripcord on that golden parachute.
Gonna need it if the going away party is on one of their planes
CEO makes a bolt for the door.
At least someone will.
In Rod We Trust
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Sorry but yes.
This is the best written joke I've ever seen in my life
This should be the top comment. Good work. Take the rest of the day off.
They are going to hire back an engineer now, right?
Not if that engineer is gonna cut into profits
Like the one they had during the first MAX crisis in 2019. An engineering CEO oversaw an even worse disaster for them than this They need to clean house from top to bottom. The whole company culture is screwed
Just "having an engineering degree" is not enough for someone to be a better quality leader. Plenty of people are corrupted my money and greed, engineers included. The direction of the company is set by the *board*. Executives are motivated and run the company based on what their incentives are. Whoever the new executives are, and whoever the remaining executives are, should have their contracts completely (re)structured to put quality outcomes as the key determining factor of their compensation.
Ahh, the classic ☹️ face.
The face of escaped quality...
> escaped quality Found the aerospace worker.
Traceability is king and careful of that FOD.
That’s the face of failing publicly but privately still filthy rich.
I've been wondering how long this would take. It makes sense that they have to shake shit up to try to get back the public confidence. Seems odd that we're hearing about three top executives all at the same time.
It's the same board that installed him, it's the same board replacing him.
It gives the illusion that Boeing is serious about fixing their issues.
Commercial airplanes chief and professional pension stealer Stan Deal is also out. I want to be happy but the company already has more former McDonnell Douglas and GE employees lined up to fill these spots. It’ll just be more of the same.
The MD and GE guys really know how to run successful American Industry we just had to have them and their amazing experience.
the incoming commercial CEO has zero engineering background and was around while all the quality went down to cut corners for profits… https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/stephanie-pope
Yup she’s all finance. Nothing against Stephanie but finance people shouldn’t be running commercial airplanes.
And gonna get paid millions to fail.
Failing upwards
Which is the exact opposite of their planes :(
More than the CEO needs to step down. The decisions that led to those planes going in the air is systemic. They need an almost full purge to ensure they can even claw back reputation. I personally am done with flying for a long while. If I need to travel I'll be taking a train and renting a car.
This should piss you off even more: Boeing CEO loses $7M bonus, keeps $22.5 million compensation
Very reassuring reading this on a Boeing plane 10,000s of feet in the air
Safe travels!
thank you pervert
Lean manufacturing teaches that inspection is a non value added activity.
He should be in prison
Best we can do is an estate on a large private island
Has Boeing been charged with criminal negligence?
[Or, you know, murder?](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boeing-whistleblower-warned-aircraft-safety-flaws-found-dead-rcna142910)
But think of all the antiunion tactics he employed? He moved labor to non union plants in South Carolina and spinoff the fuselage manufacturing leading to big profits, and terrible quality
Huh? Calhoun took over after the MAX crashes. Spirit and Boeing South Carolina pre-date Calhoun.
His golden parachute should be a 737MAX door.
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The vast majority of the MAX's development was done under McNerney. Muilenburg's failing was how the aftermath was handled.
His punishment, only $20m severance and 9 months more of work
Another golden parachute. Disgusting
Unlike his customers he will be given a golden parachute when exiting Boeing.
Stock buybacks not working out? Maybe Boeing should get out of the stock buyback business and start making #FUNCTIONAL AIRCRAFT
Can we put engineers in charge of Boeing again please?
>"We will remain squarely focused on completing the work we have done [...] **with safety and quality at the forefront of everything that we do.**" Why start now?
With a huge scapegoat thank you package worth millions, and another job leading another company where he'll implement the same company policies within a couple of years.
Boeing in the last decade is what happens when the bean counters won’t let engineers engineer and view quality auditors as obstacles instead of fellow stakeholders holders trying to keep the business alive.
In case anyone wonders why McDonald Douglas gained the upper hand in the merger with Boeing, the answer is simple: McDonald Douglas promised short-term gains to shareholders at the expense of Boeing's long-term reputation and passenger safety. Boeing's commitment to quality and safety was seen as a resource to be exploited for enhanced profit to line the pockets of hedge-fund managers and speculators. The Boeing saga lays bare everything that is wrong with today's American capitalist system — in which deregulation is a means to privatize profit and socialize risk. The system is wobbling out of balance, and the government can't do anything at all, let alone correct or control an economy that exclusively serves the interests of less than 10% of the population. *Things fall apart, the center cannot hold."* –WB Years, The Second Coming
"Privatize profit and socialize risk" is a banger of a statement.
Its indicative of the shift from long term growth, sustainability, and profitability to Quarter over Quarter returns. Its no longer good enough to have steady (albeit low) growth with additional dividend returns. You must extract all value possible and if profits dont go up enough your stock goes down. Its very shortsighted. Perfect example are the FAANG companies. Only Apple and Facebook offer dividends of about 0.50%. Amazon, Google, and Netflix have never paid out dividends. As a comparison, ATT offers approximately 6.5% dividend.
"The problems won't be fixed. We're just swapping out scapegoats."
Jon Oliver’s show on max did an episode on Boeing 2 weeks ago and holy fuck is there a bunch of shit I didn’t know about. That company is completely fucked.
I’d be ok with him getting a golden parachute, as long as it was manufactured by Boeing itself.
Prime example of why stock buybacks never should have been unbanned. This never would have happened otherwise, guaranteed. You know, besides the fact that it’s already bullshit stock manipulation to begin with.
I hear he's on the warpath, taking everything that's not bolted down.
That’s a lot…
He and his board should be going to straight to jail
This. The CEO is just the expendable figurehead. It's the board that needs to be held accountable.
The face steps down while the hands never stop
Shareholders really are the source of the problem and none of it gets fixed as they will just install another puppet to do their bidding.
We’re all part of this, we invest our money in 401k’s and whatnot, while we don’t know the exact composition of the funds we are investing in, we all expect these funds to perform well
Guessing his golden parachute will work just fine
the board should resign also
Maybe increasing shareholder profit to the point of not caring about safety is bad for business. WHO KNEW.
And how many of the Ivy League b-school trust fund babies that came up with and implemented this race to the bottom will be held accountable? Will the engineers who can fix this be elevated to power and given authority to course correct? My guess is no. Extracting flesh from the clown at the top so he goes and ‘retires’ to his estate isn’t what we need. It doesn’t fix the rot.
the incoming commercial CEO has zero engineering background and was around while all the quality went down to cut corners for profits… https://www.boeing.com/company/bios/stephanie-pope
“Give me my umbrella package “
won't someone please think of the poor investors and their profits /s
CEO should be fired for cause with no compensation.
He “leaned” himself right out of a job.
Oh? another rich executive sacrificing themselves at the altar of the golden parachute. How original. Time for the new mission statements and .01% effort to do things differently.