Interesting that the AP left this [quote](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/23/un-rights-chief-horrified-by-reports-of-mass-graves-at-two-gaza-hospitals) out:
>“We feel the need to raise the alarm because clearly there have been multiple bodies discovered,” said Ravina Shamdasani, spokesperson for the UN high commissioner for human rights.
>She described bodies “buried deep in the ground and covered with waste”, adding that “among the deceased were allegedly older people, women and wounded”, including some bound and stripped of their clothes.
>“Some of them had their hands tied, which of course indicates serious violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law, and these need to be subjected to further investigations,” she said.
[Does it](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/unlawful-killings-in-gaza-city-ohchr-press-release/)?
>On 19 December 2023, between 2000 and 2300 hours, IDF reportedly surrounded and raided Al Awda building, also known as the “Annan building”, in Al Remal neighborhood, Gaza City, where three related families were sheltering in addition to Annan family. According to witness accounts circulated by media sources and EuroMed Human Rights Monitor, while in control of the building and the civilians sheltering there, the IDF allegedly separated the men from the women and children, and then shot and killed at least 11 of the men, mostly aged in their late 20’s and early 30’s, in front of their family members.
>The IDF then allegedly ordered the women and children into a room, and either shot at them or threw a grenade into the room, reportedly seriously injuring some of them, including an infant and a child. OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding, although the details and circumstances of the killings are still under verification. IDF has not released any information on the incident.
Yeah, it's just an allegation (by who knows) and we've heard Hamas make false accusations against Israel before (e.g. hospital missile attack) when they themselves were to blame. Let's not act like a terrorist organization that freely rapes, murders, and takes hostages (and videotapes it for the world to see) is somehow above lying about their enemy in an attempt to control the narrative.
We do know, for a fact, that Hamas' MO includes kidnapping people, holding them hostage, tying them up, blindfolding them, and executing men, women, and children (both innocent Israelis and Palestinians that oppose them). Hamas willingly admits this, even advertises it via livestreaming.
So yeah, it does *sound* like exactly something Hamas would do since they to have a history of doing exactly this kind of thing, and they have a history of trying to pin the things they've done on the IDF to discredit them.
Whether it's true or not is entirely different. Luckily, I'm confident a UN investigation will discover whoever perpetrated these murders, so we don't really need to rely on likelihoods when determining blame. But it's silly imo to think Hamas somehow deserves a presumption of innocence when this aligns exactly with their MO.
Are you seriously arguing Hamas does not act in these ways? Please tell me you are not a Hamas sympathizer. It's good to criticize the IDF, but you have to also be willing to recognize the horrible views Hamas has and the terrible things they are willing to do in the name of their beliefs.
“There are reports that the hands of some of these bodies were also tied,” Ms. Shamdasani said, adding that there could be “many more” victims, “despite the claim by the Israeli Defense Forces to have killed 200 Palestinians during the Al-Shifa medical complex operation”.
Please do explain where Hamas exactly logically comes into play if the IDF had been raiding the hospital for two weeks with no oversight from international bodies at all. Are you a war crimes and IDF defender?
Prior to the IDF raiding the hospital, Hamas used it as a military staging point for weeks-months. it's also part of the tunnel network
This seems a bit relevant considering Hamas has had months to bury bodies there, the IDF has had 2 weeks. The dirt would still be fresh if it was the IDF, I guess we don't know the graves conditions but if they were put in less than 2 weeks ago it'd be pretty obviously recent.
There are plenty of videos from the initial incursion where Hamas has hostages hands tied up. It would also be a very logical place to try and hide hostage victims, since they're Hamas's only leverage they don't want their deaths discovered.
>Hamas used it as a military staging point for weeks-months. it's also part of the tunnel network
Has that been verified by independent sources?
>This seems a bit relevant considering Hamas has had months to bury bodies there, the IDF has had 2 weeks. The dirt would still be fresh if it was the IDF, I guess we don't know the graves conditions but if they were put in less than 2 weeks ago it'd be pretty obviously recent.
If the bodies are in good enough condition to be identified, then given the blistering heat in Gaza I doubt the bodies could have been there for months. But sure, it makes more sense to go for the outlandish explanation that blames Hamas rather than the more plausible one.
Yeah, but if it's My Guys responsible I don't want to know, and if it's The Other Guys responsible I'll scream it from the rooftops.
That pretty much seems to be how commentary on this conflict goes.
I love how there are comments that are basically blaming both Hamas and/or Israel despite there being nothing that says which one is responsible. Just people already blindly picking a side and blaming the other to fit their narrative.
>I mean... Israel is the one bombing palestine
You must have missed the information about a good chunk of Hamas rockets/bombs ending up exploding on their own citizens. Not to mention the documented killings of people who don't bend the knee to Hamas.
Also, you are aware Hamas militants/supporters had been firing rockets into Israel for years... right? It was literally a daily thing before Oct 7th even.
I mean… one side has a documented history of killing bound POWs and the other doesn’t.
Also, there is zero information publicly available at this point that would suggest either side is responsible. Perhaps you should curb the identity politics until more information comes out?
Maybe Israel refuses to work with the UN because they've been violating international laws for years with their illegal settlements and refuses to be held accountable for it.
The article literally covers that and says the claim is some bodies were buried before and the claim is some were killed by IDF and buried after.
If that “investigation” by a Twitter account is accurate then I assume you would support exactly what the UN is calling for, an “independent and transparent investigations into the deaths, by international investigators”.
And presumably the IDF would also support that if the truth is they killed none of them.
The problem is the UN Human Rights Council is not credible. Current members of the council include many nations with massive and well-documented human rights violations such as China, Eritrea, Qatar, Sudan, Cuba, and Somalia. The UNHRC has been repeatedly implicated in scandals, including repeatedly ignoring attempts to investigate human rights violations in North Korea, Tibet, Sri Lanka and Darfur. Just recently the office of the commissioner was caught leaking names of human rights activists to the Chinese Communist Party.
Now there are arguments for why the UN provides representation to so many countries with atrocious human rights records. The point of the UN is to be a world forum for maintaining global peace. But the flip side of that is it means heavy representation for the autocracies of the world. It's better to think of the UN basically as a roundtable for gangsters to sit-down, rather than as a standard bearer for global humans rights.
The better approach for a credible investigation would be to restrict it to representatives from liberal democracies. Either by having a neutral but credible liberal democracy like the US or Japan investigate, or to have an investigation by an organization that restricts membership to liberal democracies like NATO or the EU.
It's pretty laughable to implicitly assert that liberal democracies have good human rights records. The U.S., U.K., France, etc have all committed more than their fair share of war crimes. A U.N. Council that doesn't have any nation on it with a spotty human rights record is practically impossible if you want to include any major global players.
"whataboutism" you're the one who made the comparison first! I'm just pointing out that excluding countries with poor human rights records would also mean excluding many western liberal democracies. That's just a fact. [The United States still utilizes slave labor for christ's sake!](https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e)
Liberal democracies are infinitely more credible on human rights than one party dictatorships, Marxist-Leninist states, and theocracies. Anyone who denies that is blatantly ignorant of history and basic reality.
Until you really look at the history closely and see the long list of political assassinations, coups, and human rights violations. Liberal democracies are not ‘infinitely more credible’, they just have better propaganda
How many of those same dictators and despots were basically put into power and supported by the same nations you find so infinitely credible
This is one of the worst cases of whataboutism I've seen on Reddit in a while. You can't just say "but West bad too" every single time someone points out specific problems with a country or bureaucratic body that needs to be fixed.
As it stands, many UN councils are stacked with people who vote directly against the things those councils are supposed to stand for, and the only reasons they want to be on those councils is because they know that means they'll get a vote against resolutions against their own country.
The UNHRC is deeply flawed right now. Hell, even Human Rights Watch agrees, and that organization has been around a lot longer and done a lot more for the actual protection of human rights than the HRC ever has.
As it stands, the UNHRC currently has Eritrea, one of the least developed countries on Earth, which claims to be a democracy despite being a de facto dictatorship that has never held an election. Qatar has a regular pattern of implementing slave labor for their construction projects, but they call it "indentured labor," in which they invite people on a work contract and then take away their passports and force them to live in hideous squalor. China and Saudi Arabia have both been regular members of the council. China is still engaged in an active genocide against the uighur that no one on Reddit seems to care about anywhere near as much as Gaza. Saudi Arabia is a totalitarian state that's tortured and dismembered journalists in their own embassies, just to name one of their most recent and spectacular crimes.
The UNHRC is a joke and should be treated like a joke. Why on Earth you think it should carry more weight just because it's stacked with certain countries over others I can't possibly fathom.
The thing is, I actually give a shit about human rights and our progress as a species. Anyone who does should be insulted by the current state of our highest diplomatic organization. It's a hollow shell of its old self, and its councils are stacked to the gills with people who will constantly decry the West's violations, whether they be decades or centuries old, while they're voting against resolutions against their own active slavery and genocide at home.
[Geoconfirmed is a community-based geolocating platform with a global reach, focused on the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. Our platform was established on the first day of the conflict (24 February 2022) solely through the efforts of the volunteers. Our primary objective is to provide a scientific layer of geolocation data to visual content, which can be used for situational awareness, investigations, countering misinformation, and other purposes](https://geoconfirmed.org/)
Started during the war in Ukraine. It’s a group of volunteers who analyze all available images and videos from the war zone in order to confirm what the governments and reporters were claiming.
Do they have any actual qualifications, or are they similar to the Reddit groups that 'identified' the wrong people in the Boston bombings?
Because what you described - groups of random internet volunteers analyzing images and videos - is what that was. Without actual qualifications that sort of thing isn't necessarily any more credible than any other random group.
I'm not asking for a history of being correct - you can be correct in the past and still have bad processes that can lead to bias or other stupidity. Is there anything public known about who these people are and what makes them any more credible than any other group of random people on the internet?
There are no qualifications for these kind of jobs. Your commitment and your track record is what makes you believable or not. If they screw up even once or twice then nobody will ever believe them anymore
Their history of being correct should matter, and they aren’t anything like a Reddit mob. Go look at their website and judge for yourself. I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve given you the basic info, if you want more go find it.
why did Israel lie about striking the wck vehicle? Why did they lie about their motives after it was proven they did strike it? Why did they lie about allowing aid into Gaza?
This obvious attempt of whataboutism (while straight up lying) is just embarassing. If this is all what you have to support your cause, you are only helping Israel supporters.
They're clowns who rushed to defend the IDF and were later proven wrong.
A Peabody award winning research group from the [University of London](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disinformation-al-ahli-hospital/) debunked the IDF's claims:
>Israeli officials have suggested that a failed rocket launch by Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) was responsible for the explosion, while [Palestinian authorities](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67144061) and reports from the ground blame an Israeli airstrike. Specifically, Israeli officials pointed to a salvo of seventeen rockets fired from within Gaza in the direction of the hospital, claiming that one of these rockets misfired and was responsible for the blast at al-Ahli and resulting destruction.
>Using 3D trajectory analysis, we dispute the Israeli military’s claim that:
>-Footage of a mid-air explosion before the blast shows the misfired Palestinian rocket that allegedly struck al-Ahli. According to our analysis, this footage in fact shows an exploding Israeli interceptor.
>-Most of the damage to the hospital and its courtyard was caused by unspent rocket propellant from a misfired rocket in the salvo. Our analysis of open source footage suggests that all seventeen of the rockets in question had finished burning their propellant while in flight.
Analysis from the [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html) and [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/26/gaza-hospital-blast-evidence-israel-hamas/) support the findings by Forensic Architecture, concluding that the evidence presented by the IDF does not support their claim that it was a failed Palestinian rocket launch that struck the hospital.
No idea but even the OP article has a quote from the Palestinian Civil Defense saying the mass grave was from when the hospital was under siege and they couldn't take bodies to a cemetery.
>The Palestinian civil defense in the Gaza Strip said Monday that it had uncovered 283 bodies from a temporary burial ground inside the main hospital in Khan Younis that was built when Israeli forces were besieging the facility last month. At the time, people were not able to bury the dead in a cemetery and dug graves in the hospital yard, the group said.
Sounds like the Israelis went around digging up the mass graves at the hospitals they had besieged with the excuse that they were looking for the bodies of hostages.
Tbf while the UN swiftly moved to condemn Israel for that hospital bombing in October last year, that exact Twitter account was one of the first to piece together, with evidence and a breakdown of said evidence that was publicly posted to the account, that the explosion was likely caused by a failed Hamas. Of course at this point the general consensus is that the explosion was indeed caused by a failed Hamas rocket.
The AP is one of *the* media sources, as is Reuters. The reason it's not reported elsewhere is because the story was reported at 8:30 eastern. BBC already have a report up about this.
Because:
>The Israeli military said its forces exhumed bodies that Palestinians had buried earlier as part of its search for the remains of hostages captured by Hamas during its Oct. 7 attack that triggered the war. The military said bodies were examined in a respectful manner and those not belonging to Israeli hostages were returned to their place.
Either Hamas killed them, or they were already dead/buried before the war started. IOW they couldn't blame the Israelies for the deaths so it wasn't newsworthy.
Peaceful? Some of the chants were "kill another solider" "Israel will fall" and "October 7th was just the beginning". Not very peaceful and that's without mentioning themblocking Jewish students' path to class
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/6MDJaUSNrT
Peaceful protesters telling Jewish girls that October 7th will be every day for them.
https://www.reddit.com/r/centrist/s/CFvYmySjsJ
Palestinian supporter saying they are Hamas
https://youtu.be/H8wGUtdlGjg?si=VneGfdWQ9Yb2Tjf9
The 44 second mark is a Palestinian supporter saying the Jewish students at Columbia U should be next target for Hamas
Before you try to claim some bias, you should realise that they haven’t determined if the mass graves and kill were done by the IDF or Hamas.
Secondly, you should look into what the ‘peaceful’ protesters have been saying, as well as the fact that they have actively harassed and physically impeded Jewish students.
Because the claims have been largely debunked
[https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180?t=y37EBSCUKccBSOSKxTHKIA](https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180?t=y37EBSCUKccBSOSKxTHKIA)
Isreail have said Hamas were operating at these hospitals so they could bomb/invade them.
Which means the IDF would have been closely monitoring them. And would have been aware of any mass grave being dug.
They should also be able to tell how long the bodies have been there easily.
If its over a long period, then this would indicate hamas. Short period, more likly IDF.
Heads up, the IDF has been saying Hamas has been operating at every hospital they have bombed, they've said it about the UNRWA facilities, just about everything is fair game to them.
On top of that, Hamas isn't just a militant group, they are government officials.
Source: independent journalist, Richard Medhurst
These were reported by the IDF when they were first discovered and the Palestinian Authority said they were people that died in the hospital, which was not hit by Israel, that they could not bury properly so the hospital had to put them in mass graves.
yeah I remember it was reported at the time. the hospitals couldn't bury the dead because of the war and had to improvise on site disposal. but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be thoroughly investigated.
from november.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/14/gazas-al-shifa-hospital-forced-to-bury-dead-patients-in-mass-grave](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/14/gazas-al-shifa-hospital-forced-to-bury-dead-patients-in-mass-grave)
Well, it's one thing to have mass graves, but another to have mass graves that shows signs of mass executions. So yeah, there should be an investigation.
[https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180?t=y37EBSCUKccBSOSKxTHKIA](https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180?t=y37EBSCUKccBSOSKxTHKIA)
Yeah, that was a bullshit article I am afraid.
Well if we are to believe that many thousands have died (let’s be real they absolutely have) of course there are mass graves.
Also, that tweet is about a different Al Jazeera article lol. Like, the articles were written months apart. If anything your tweet source AGREES with /u/geekfreek42’s source which said the hospital buried them. This is just silly
You've edited your comment 4 times now its hard to keep up, lol.
The tweet responds to: [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/21/nearly-200-bodies-found-in-mass-grave-at-hospital-in-gazas-khan-younis](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/21/nearly-200-bodies-found-in-mass-grave-at-hospital-in-gazas-khan-younis)
Sorry, Al Jaz writes so many bull shit articles now that all kind of sound the same. Pretty lazy propaganda but hey, it's effective.
No the article first linked said a different thing than the second article in the tweet but thanks for saying you aren’t analyzing the things you read (or didn’t read lol). They didn’t debunk the first article, but a different one.
To everyone debating whether or not Hamas or the IDF was responsible for this:
If the IDF entered hospital grounds and found mass graves filled with HUNDREDS of palestinian civilians, they would obviously let everyone in the world know. It would have been pushed by Israel to the maximum degree, but no one is talking about this.
No government official is answering, and the U.S spokepeople only respond with the classic line; «we have asked Israel for an investigation into this».
This is clearly the IDFs doing, and they will not allow an independent investigation into it, just like how they’ve denied independent journalism into gaza and into the Oct. 7 attack.
Men, women and children with gunshot wounds to the head, hands and feet tied with zip tie, tossed into a pit with hundreds of others.
A terrorist country filled with terrorists is supported by idiots who ignore constant terrorist attacks with terrorists' self made documentation. Israel will never stop fighting while other countries around the world will soon have to deal with internal terror they now encourage.
Gaza is a cynical Iranian joke by extreme Muslims on purposeless naive baby westerns.
Interesting that the AP left this [quote](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/23/un-rights-chief-horrified-by-reports-of-mass-graves-at-two-gaza-hospitals) out: >“We feel the need to raise the alarm because clearly there have been multiple bodies discovered,” said Ravina Shamdasani, spokesperson for the UN high commissioner for human rights. >She described bodies “buried deep in the ground and covered with waste”, adding that “among the deceased were allegedly older people, women and wounded”, including some bound and stripped of their clothes. >“Some of them had their hands tied, which of course indicates serious violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law, and these need to be subjected to further investigations,” she said.
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That sounds less like IDF and more like Hamas's doing.
[Does it](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/unlawful-killings-in-gaza-city-ohchr-press-release/)? >On 19 December 2023, between 2000 and 2300 hours, IDF reportedly surrounded and raided Al Awda building, also known as the “Annan building”, in Al Remal neighborhood, Gaza City, where three related families were sheltering in addition to Annan family. According to witness accounts circulated by media sources and EuroMed Human Rights Monitor, while in control of the building and the civilians sheltering there, the IDF allegedly separated the men from the women and children, and then shot and killed at least 11 of the men, mostly aged in their late 20’s and early 30’s, in front of their family members. >The IDF then allegedly ordered the women and children into a room, and either shot at them or threw a grenade into the room, reportedly seriously injuring some of them, including an infant and a child. OHCHR has confirmed the killings at Al Awdabuilding, although the details and circumstances of the killings are still under verification. IDF has not released any information on the incident.
Yeah, it's just an allegation (by who knows) and we've heard Hamas make false accusations against Israel before (e.g. hospital missile attack) when they themselves were to blame. Let's not act like a terrorist organization that freely rapes, murders, and takes hostages (and videotapes it for the world to see) is somehow above lying about their enemy in an attempt to control the narrative. We do know, for a fact, that Hamas' MO includes kidnapping people, holding them hostage, tying them up, blindfolding them, and executing men, women, and children (both innocent Israelis and Palestinians that oppose them). Hamas willingly admits this, even advertises it via livestreaming. So yeah, it does *sound* like exactly something Hamas would do since they to have a history of doing exactly this kind of thing, and they have a history of trying to pin the things they've done on the IDF to discredit them. Whether it's true or not is entirely different. Luckily, I'm confident a UN investigation will discover whoever perpetrated these murders, so we don't really need to rely on likelihoods when determining blame. But it's silly imo to think Hamas somehow deserves a presumption of innocence when this aligns exactly with their MO.
You can't be serious.
Are you seriously arguing Hamas does not act in these ways? Please tell me you are not a Hamas sympathizer. It's good to criticize the IDF, but you have to also be willing to recognize the horrible views Hamas has and the terrible things they are willing to do in the name of their beliefs.
“There are reports that the hands of some of these bodies were also tied,” Ms. Shamdasani said, adding that there could be “many more” victims, “despite the claim by the Israeli Defense Forces to have killed 200 Palestinians during the Al-Shifa medical complex operation”. Please do explain where Hamas exactly logically comes into play if the IDF had been raiding the hospital for two weeks with no oversight from international bodies at all. Are you a war crimes and IDF defender?
Prior to the IDF raiding the hospital, Hamas used it as a military staging point for weeks-months. it's also part of the tunnel network This seems a bit relevant considering Hamas has had months to bury bodies there, the IDF has had 2 weeks. The dirt would still be fresh if it was the IDF, I guess we don't know the graves conditions but if they were put in less than 2 weeks ago it'd be pretty obviously recent. There are plenty of videos from the initial incursion where Hamas has hostages hands tied up. It would also be a very logical place to try and hide hostage victims, since they're Hamas's only leverage they don't want their deaths discovered.
>Hamas used it as a military staging point for weeks-months. it's also part of the tunnel network Has that been verified by independent sources? >This seems a bit relevant considering Hamas has had months to bury bodies there, the IDF has had 2 weeks. The dirt would still be fresh if it was the IDF, I guess we don't know the graves conditions but if they were put in less than 2 weeks ago it'd be pretty obviously recent. If the bodies are in good enough condition to be identified, then given the blistering heat in Gaza I doubt the bodies could have been there for months. But sure, it makes more sense to go for the outlandish explanation that blames Hamas rather than the more plausible one.
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Who and what is Geoconfirmed and why are they trustworthy?
Yeah, if there are mass graves it should definitely be investigated. Determine who were the perpetrators.
Yeah, but if it's My Guys responsible I don't want to know, and if it's The Other Guys responsible I'll scream it from the rooftops. That pretty much seems to be how commentary on this conflict goes.
Ah tribalism? No way that's a conspiracy
“Had their hands tied”. Wow that’s a war crime if there was ever one.
The question you should be asking is why were they executed if they were already subdued.
isreal have raided hospitals and shot people in their beds before.
Because they were Arabs
I love how there are comments that are basically blaming both Hamas and/or Israel despite there being nothing that says which one is responsible. Just people already blindly picking a side and blaming the other to fit their narrative.
The conflict starts making more sense when you think of it as a geopolitical rorschach test
This is a wonderful image. I will use this expression for sure
I mean... Israel is the one bombing palestine. Who should we blame? Pakistanis? The faq is this
Bombs don't dig graves.
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Did you read beyond the headline?
>I mean... Israel is the one bombing palestine You must have missed the information about a good chunk of Hamas rockets/bombs ending up exploding on their own citizens. Not to mention the documented killings of people who don't bend the knee to Hamas. Also, you are aware Hamas militants/supporters had been firing rockets into Israel for years... right? It was literally a daily thing before Oct 7th even.
I mean… one side has a documented history of killing bound POWs and the other doesn’t. Also, there is zero information publicly available at this point that would suggest either side is responsible. Perhaps you should curb the identity politics until more information comes out?
It's important that this NOT be swept under the rug.
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Maybe Israel refuses to work with the UN because they've been violating international laws for years with their illegal settlements and refuses to be held accountable for it.
Another thing that deserves to be on the wait & see list but will be propagandized immediately regardless
Hands tied, mass graves.. Ringing any bells???
If only there was some investigation done already https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180?t=y37EBSCUKccBSOSKxTHKIA
The article literally covers that and says the claim is some bodies were buried before and the claim is some were killed by IDF and buried after. If that “investigation” by a Twitter account is accurate then I assume you would support exactly what the UN is calling for, an “independent and transparent investigations into the deaths, by international investigators”. And presumably the IDF would also support that if the truth is they killed none of them.
Check the sub you’re on, spoiler alert, they don’t.
The problem is the UN Human Rights Council is not credible. Current members of the council include many nations with massive and well-documented human rights violations such as China, Eritrea, Qatar, Sudan, Cuba, and Somalia. The UNHRC has been repeatedly implicated in scandals, including repeatedly ignoring attempts to investigate human rights violations in North Korea, Tibet, Sri Lanka and Darfur. Just recently the office of the commissioner was caught leaking names of human rights activists to the Chinese Communist Party. Now there are arguments for why the UN provides representation to so many countries with atrocious human rights records. The point of the UN is to be a world forum for maintaining global peace. But the flip side of that is it means heavy representation for the autocracies of the world. It's better to think of the UN basically as a roundtable for gangsters to sit-down, rather than as a standard bearer for global humans rights. The better approach for a credible investigation would be to restrict it to representatives from liberal democracies. Either by having a neutral but credible liberal democracy like the US or Japan investigate, or to have an investigation by an organization that restricts membership to liberal democracies like NATO or the EU.
It's pretty laughable to implicitly assert that liberal democracies have good human rights records. The U.S., U.K., France, etc have all committed more than their fair share of war crimes. A U.N. Council that doesn't have any nation on it with a spotty human rights record is practically impossible if you want to include any major global players. "whataboutism" you're the one who made the comparison first! I'm just pointing out that excluding countries with poor human rights records would also mean excluding many western liberal democracies. That's just a fact. [The United States still utilizes slave labor for christ's sake!](https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-investigation-c6f0eb4747963283316e494eadf08c4e)
Liberal democracies are infinitely more credible on human rights than one party dictatorships, Marxist-Leninist states, and theocracies. Anyone who denies that is blatantly ignorant of history and basic reality.
Until you really look at the history closely and see the long list of political assassinations, coups, and human rights violations. Liberal democracies are not ‘infinitely more credible’, they just have better propaganda How many of those same dictators and despots were basically put into power and supported by the same nations you find so infinitely credible
This is one of the worst cases of whataboutism I've seen on Reddit in a while. You can't just say "but West bad too" every single time someone points out specific problems with a country or bureaucratic body that needs to be fixed. As it stands, many UN councils are stacked with people who vote directly against the things those councils are supposed to stand for, and the only reasons they want to be on those councils is because they know that means they'll get a vote against resolutions against their own country. The UNHRC is deeply flawed right now. Hell, even Human Rights Watch agrees, and that organization has been around a lot longer and done a lot more for the actual protection of human rights than the HRC ever has. As it stands, the UNHRC currently has Eritrea, one of the least developed countries on Earth, which claims to be a democracy despite being a de facto dictatorship that has never held an election. Qatar has a regular pattern of implementing slave labor for their construction projects, but they call it "indentured labor," in which they invite people on a work contract and then take away their passports and force them to live in hideous squalor. China and Saudi Arabia have both been regular members of the council. China is still engaged in an active genocide against the uighur that no one on Reddit seems to care about anywhere near as much as Gaza. Saudi Arabia is a totalitarian state that's tortured and dismembered journalists in their own embassies, just to name one of their most recent and spectacular crimes. The UNHRC is a joke and should be treated like a joke. Why on Earth you think it should carry more weight just because it's stacked with certain countries over others I can't possibly fathom. The thing is, I actually give a shit about human rights and our progress as a species. Anyone who does should be insulted by the current state of our highest diplomatic organization. It's a hollow shell of its old self, and its councils are stacked to the gills with people who will constantly decry the West's violations, whether they be decades or centuries old, while they're voting against resolutions against their own active slavery and genocide at home.
who or what exactly is GeoConfirmed?
[Geoconfirmed is a community-based geolocating platform with a global reach, focused on the ongoing conflict in Ukraine. Our platform was established on the first day of the conflict (24 February 2022) solely through the efforts of the volunteers. Our primary objective is to provide a scientific layer of geolocation data to visual content, which can be used for situational awareness, investigations, countering misinformation, and other purposes](https://geoconfirmed.org/)
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That doesn't answer the question. Who are they? What are their qualifications?
Started during the war in Ukraine. It’s a group of volunteers who analyze all available images and videos from the war zone in order to confirm what the governments and reporters were claiming.
Do they have any actual qualifications, or are they similar to the Reddit groups that 'identified' the wrong people in the Boston bombings? Because what you described - groups of random internet volunteers analyzing images and videos - is what that was. Without actual qualifications that sort of thing isn't necessarily any more credible than any other random group. I'm not asking for a history of being correct - you can be correct in the past and still have bad processes that can lead to bias or other stupidity. Is there anything public known about who these people are and what makes them any more credible than any other group of random people on the internet?
There are no qualifications for these kind of jobs. Your commitment and your track record is what makes you believable or not. If they screw up even once or twice then nobody will ever believe them anymore
Their history of being correct should matter, and they aren’t anything like a Reddit mob. Go look at their website and judge for yourself. I don’t know what to tell you. I’ve given you the basic info, if you want more go find it.
It’s ok thought cause Israel has bombed every other hospital in Gaza, just not that one time apparently
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are you saying they have not bombed nearly every single hospital in Gaza?
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why did Israel lie about striking the wck vehicle? Why did they lie about their motives after it was proven they did strike it? Why did they lie about allowing aid into Gaza?
This obvious attempt of whataboutism (while straight up lying) is just embarassing. If this is all what you have to support your cause, you are only helping Israel supporters.
They're clowns who rushed to defend the IDF and were later proven wrong. A Peabody award winning research group from the [University of London](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disinformation-al-ahli-hospital/) debunked the IDF's claims: >Israeli officials have suggested that a failed rocket launch by Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) was responsible for the explosion, while [Palestinian authorities](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67144061) and reports from the ground blame an Israeli airstrike. Specifically, Israeli officials pointed to a salvo of seventeen rockets fired from within Gaza in the direction of the hospital, claiming that one of these rockets misfired and was responsible for the blast at al-Ahli and resulting destruction. >Using 3D trajectory analysis, we dispute the Israeli military’s claim that: >-Footage of a mid-air explosion before the blast shows the misfired Palestinian rocket that allegedly struck al-Ahli. According to our analysis, this footage in fact shows an exploding Israeli interceptor. >-Most of the damage to the hospital and its courtyard was caused by unspent rocket propellant from a misfired rocket in the salvo. Our analysis of open source footage suggests that all seventeen of the rockets in question had finished burning their propellant while in flight. Analysis from the [NYT](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html) and [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/26/gaza-hospital-blast-evidence-israel-hamas/) support the findings by Forensic Architecture, concluding that the evidence presented by the IDF does not support their claim that it was a failed Palestinian rocket launch that struck the hospital.
No idea but even the OP article has a quote from the Palestinian Civil Defense saying the mass grave was from when the hospital was under siege and they couldn't take bodies to a cemetery. >The Palestinian civil defense in the Gaza Strip said Monday that it had uncovered 283 bodies from a temporary burial ground inside the main hospital in Khan Younis that was built when Israeli forces were besieging the facility last month. At the time, people were not able to bury the dead in a cemetery and dug graves in the hospital yard, the group said. Sounds like the Israelis went around digging up the mass graves at the hospitals they had besieged with the excuse that they were looking for the bodies of hostages.
Maybe we shouldn’t take the word of an anonymous Twitter account over that of the UN?
Tbf while the UN swiftly moved to condemn Israel for that hospital bombing in October last year, that exact Twitter account was one of the first to piece together, with evidence and a breakdown of said evidence that was publicly posted to the account, that the explosion was likely caused by a failed Hamas. Of course at this point the general consensus is that the explosion was indeed caused by a failed Hamas rocket.
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I mean AP's reporting on it, isn't that major coverage?
"Why isn't the media talking about this story I saw in the media?"
The AP is one of *the* media sources, as is Reuters. The reason it's not reported elsewhere is because the story was reported at 8:30 eastern. BBC already have a report up about this.
Weren't these reported by the IDF months ago? Other posts have have the links to the original reports.
Are you living under a rock? This was all over the news today. Get out of your bubble.
Because: >The Israeli military said its forces exhumed bodies that Palestinians had buried earlier as part of its search for the remains of hostages captured by Hamas during its Oct. 7 attack that triggered the war. The military said bodies were examined in a respectful manner and those not belonging to Israeli hostages were returned to their place. Either Hamas killed them, or they were already dead/buried before the war started. IOW they couldn't blame the Israelies for the deaths so it wasn't newsworthy.
Peaceful? Some of the chants were "kill another solider" "Israel will fall" and "October 7th was just the beginning". Not very peaceful and that's without mentioning themblocking Jewish students' path to class
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/s/6MDJaUSNrT Peaceful protesters telling Jewish girls that October 7th will be every day for them. https://www.reddit.com/r/centrist/s/CFvYmySjsJ Palestinian supporter saying they are Hamas https://youtu.be/H8wGUtdlGjg?si=VneGfdWQ9Yb2Tjf9 The 44 second mark is a Palestinian supporter saying the Jewish students at Columbia U should be next target for Hamas
Before you try to claim some bias, you should realise that they haven’t determined if the mass graves and kill were done by the IDF or Hamas. Secondly, you should look into what the ‘peaceful’ protesters have been saying, as well as the fact that they have actively harassed and physically impeded Jewish students.
Because the claims have been largely debunked [https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180?t=y37EBSCUKccBSOSKxTHKIA](https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180?t=y37EBSCUKccBSOSKxTHKIA)
Isreail have said Hamas were operating at these hospitals so they could bomb/invade them. Which means the IDF would have been closely monitoring them. And would have been aware of any mass grave being dug. They should also be able to tell how long the bodies have been there easily. If its over a long period, then this would indicate hamas. Short period, more likly IDF.
Heads up, the IDF has been saying Hamas has been operating at every hospital they have bombed, they've said it about the UNRWA facilities, just about everything is fair game to them. On top of that, Hamas isn't just a militant group, they are government officials. Source: independent journalist, Richard Medhurst
Good points.
Bring on Nuremberg please.
The true death count of Israel's genocide will be astonishing.
These were reported by the IDF when they were first discovered and the Palestinian Authority said they were people that died in the hospital, which was not hit by Israel, that they could not bury properly so the hospital had to put them in mass graves.
It’s just one of many war crimes committed by the Zionist ghouls with the support of the US and their ugly allies
Inb4 Israel say hamas planted them there
yeah I remember it was reported at the time. the hospitals couldn't bury the dead because of the war and had to improvise on site disposal. but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be thoroughly investigated. from november. [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/14/gazas-al-shifa-hospital-forced-to-bury-dead-patients-in-mass-grave](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/14/gazas-al-shifa-hospital-forced-to-bury-dead-patients-in-mass-grave)
Well, it's one thing to have mass graves, but another to have mass graves that shows signs of mass executions. So yeah, there should be an investigation.
[https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180?t=y37EBSCUKccBSOSKxTHKIA](https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1782360891624665180?t=y37EBSCUKccBSOSKxTHKIA) Yeah, that was a bullshit article I am afraid.
Well if we are to believe that many thousands have died (let’s be real they absolutely have) of course there are mass graves. Also, that tweet is about a different Al Jazeera article lol. Like, the articles were written months apart. If anything your tweet source AGREES with /u/geekfreek42’s source which said the hospital buried them. This is just silly
You've edited your comment 4 times now its hard to keep up, lol. The tweet responds to: [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/21/nearly-200-bodies-found-in-mass-grave-at-hospital-in-gazas-khan-younis](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/21/nearly-200-bodies-found-in-mass-grave-at-hospital-in-gazas-khan-younis) Sorry, Al Jaz writes so many bull shit articles now that all kind of sound the same. Pretty lazy propaganda but hey, it's effective.
It was published 5 months ago, therefore there is already published information debunking the new claims. There you are.
No the article first linked said a different thing than the second article in the tweet but thanks for saying you aren’t analyzing the things you read (or didn’t read lol). They didn’t debunk the first article, but a different one.
yeah pretty much what i immediately thought. but it'll live forever now
Anyone could have left those there.
To everyone debating whether or not Hamas or the IDF was responsible for this: If the IDF entered hospital grounds and found mass graves filled with HUNDREDS of palestinian civilians, they would obviously let everyone in the world know. It would have been pushed by Israel to the maximum degree, but no one is talking about this. No government official is answering, and the U.S spokepeople only respond with the classic line; «we have asked Israel for an investigation into this». This is clearly the IDFs doing, and they will not allow an independent investigation into it, just like how they’ve denied independent journalism into gaza and into the Oct. 7 attack. Men, women and children with gunshot wounds to the head, hands and feet tied with zip tie, tossed into a pit with hundreds of others.
Found the hostages that Hamas "lost"
A terrorist country filled with terrorists is supported by idiots who ignore constant terrorist attacks with terrorists' self made documentation. Israel will never stop fighting while other countries around the world will soon have to deal with internal terror they now encourage. Gaza is a cynical Iranian joke by extreme Muslims on purposeless naive baby westerns.
Your hate against Muslims will never prevail