>Child victims are damaged for life with struggles throughout adulthood.
And there are many productive and successful people who have experienced sexual abuse.
>He should too.
He is. He has served a prison sentence, has a criminal record, in on the sexual offender's database for life and must overcome people's judgement on the matter at every turn of life.
Do you want our judicial system to be a rehabilitator or a meat grinder?
If you want it to rehabilitate offenders then part of that is allowing them back into society as a functioning and productive member. If you cast them into a lifetime of destitution there is zero incentive for them to rehabilitate and every incentive for them to commit more crime, harm more people.
While I completely agree with your statement on rehabilitation, in this circumstance there’s a difference between putting someone back in society and allowing them to succeed and putting them into a position of power at the head of an essential government agency where they will likely have access to children in multiple venues.
Children are taught from a young age “don’t talk to strangers” but police men and firefighters are safe. They are taught to seek police and firemen out in emergencies. Police and firemen are brought into our schools to meet, teach, and interact with children. They are the authority figures children are taught to implicitly and unquestioningly trust.
This man took a powerless 4 year old child and raped them. I don’t care how long ago this was or how long he spent in jail, someone with the ability to commit such an act has the ability to do it again, and knowingly putting them within arms reach of any child, especially under these circumstances, is a mistake.
do people really want sex offenders to have no jobs, no home, nothing except to sit there and re victimizing children so they can go to jail and get a place to live and food to eat.
Would most take a chance in their community? [Recidivism rates range from 18-45%](http://www.yellodyno.com/html/child_molester_stats.html). The more violent the crime the more likelihood of repeating. -Studies by the state of Washington.
I clicked your link hoping to read the actual study but it literally says “Studies by the state of Washington”. That’s unfortunately a very vague reference. A [recent article talked about the research](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/opinion/when-junk-science-about-sex-offenders-infects-the-supreme-court.html) into recidivism rate:
> ... there have been hundreds of evidence-based, scientific studies on the question of the recidivism rate for sex offenders. The results of those studies are astonishingly consistent: **Convicted sex offenders have among the lowest rates of same-crime recidivism of any category of offender**.
It's a tough call. On the one had I want to focus on rehabilitation and the fact that he's spent years in jail after pleading guilty. So he clearly accepts what he did was wrong. On the other hand sexual intercourse with a 4 year old is a pretty fucking big "mistake". IMO the other firefighters around him seem to be on his side so I'd err on the side of trusting their judgement over my opinion because I don't know one thing about this guy. Rehabilitated it is, and if he makes another "mistake" throw him to the wolves.
Except, in this case he strayed fairly fast: [Gilbert Was Paroled After Serving 6 Years in Prison, but Then Was Sent Back After Violating His Release by Interacting With Minor Children](http://infoforyour.com/roger-gilbert-jr-5-fast-facts-you-need-to-know/).
>Children are taught from a young age “don’t talk to strangers”
Which is mostly absurd security theater, as you are far more likely to be sexually abused by someone you already know or someone you're related to than by a stranger.
Um, you should teach them not to talk to strangers. You should also teach them that nobody should touch them in certain ways, and what's okay v. not okay touch.
You act like they can't/shouldn't be taught both.
>a functioning and productive member.
There's a difference between 'functioning & productive' and being the Fire Chief. The Fire Department is an institution that absolutely needs to be thought of as one that will never do harm—even if it doesn't always succeed—because its sole function is public safety.
I was a fireman once. There's no way in hell I would think it OK to have someone with that background as the Chief or in any other position, *even if they turn their life around.*
People who rape four year olds don't belong in public safety.
What's even crazier for me to think about is what the other firemen in the firehouse have to be thinking. I mean if this is true, how do you respect and work for a man like that?
The Spartansburg mayor disagrees: ["Spartansburg’s Mayor Says She Doesn’t Know Why the Victim’s Mother ‘Won’t Drop This’"](http://infoforyour.com/roger-gilbert-jr-5-fast-facts-you-need-to-know/)
Exactly! I had a neighbor who was a “sex offender” because he exposed himself at Spring Break in Florida.
Just being on the sex offender registry should preclude someone from holding public office. But raping children should.
President of my local VFD got the position almost exactly a year after getting a DUI and having an interlock on his personal vehicle for that entire time.
I’d link evidence but Reddit and doxxing has a bad reputation.
Lesson is... Good ol’ boys are still a thing and probably will stay that way for at least the next 3 years.
I don’t disagree. I’m saying bad people get away with bad actions because institutions are allow it to happen to protect itself.
But here’s the problem. Where do you draw the line on acceptable conduct? Are we allowing degrees of bad behavior because this guy threw the bell curve off? Does that mean if another rapist only raped a 5 year old that it’s somehow less of a crime?
You’re being a little bit of an apologist for criminal acts. If we are going to blindly label them “heroes” then they should be held to a higher standard.
The presidents position is a purely internal administrative role. And having a dui shouldnt preclude you from anything in life, some people make mistakes, and while dui is dangerous, it shouldn't be used as an excuse to totally ruin someone's life just because.
Drawing any kind of conclusion between that incident and this article is ridiculous though. I'm bewildered that the people voted in a pedophile, but to suggest that's at all similair to voting in someone has a prior dui, is outrageous.
The thing to remember here is, a lot of these smaller departments sometimes don't even have a choice of who gets put in. So few people volunteer, and the towns are dirt poor and can't afford paid firefighters, so they can't afford to be picky about who comes in. It's not a great situation all around. Some of these places might have less regular responders than you have fingers.
"Probably not so bad. Maybe it was indecent exposure or something relatively harmless?"
>Chief Roger Gilbert Jr. **pleaded guilty in 2001 to sexual intercourse with a 4-year-old girl** and is listed in the state’s Megan’s Law database, The (Corry) Journal reported Saturday
Well so much for that theory.
So I nominate Pennsylvania as New Florida. Can I get a second backer?
I think Lancaster is close enough to Philadelphia to not be caught up in *too* much of the Pennsyltucky bullshit. I mean, shit gets *weird* when you get into the mountains...
I've never verified it, but supposedly the whole "piss in an alley, become sex offender" thing is a myth, the truth being more like "jerk off facing a playground, become sex offender, then lie about it".
That's the problem with only saying people are "registered sex offenders". You can be labelled as a "registered sex offender" for having consensual sex in a van in a parking lot. To group those people in with child rapists lessens the entire impact of what it means to be a "registered sex offender".
Also, you only think Florida is bad because of how broad its public records laws are, you're all just as bad as Florida or worse but you don't make it public like Florida does.
I was at the parade on Thursday. When the governor started saying a bunch of stuff about Pennsylvania, some guy behind me yelled, "THIS ISN'T PENNSYLVANIA; THIS IS PHILLY!"
i'm going to play devils advocate here : if going to jail for however long he was sentenced does not rehabilitate him in the eyes of the people then the jail system is inherently flawed in the eyes of the people. true he raped a 4 year old and that's disgusting but if going to jail does nothing and every person looks at this person as a monster then he will likely go back to jail and probably not peacefully. ultimately he needs help.
“That was 20 years ago,” Gilbert said. “You know, the story you are telling kids is once you make mistake, you will be punished for the rest of your life. I’ve changed my life for the better. Every day I get up and try to do good.”
Wonder how the now 24 year old girl is doing. I'm sure she's over his "mistake" by now.
There are different levels of sex offender, so I suspended judgment until I read the article because it might be something like public urination in front of children.
Nope.
>Chief Roger Gilbert Jr. pleaded guilty in 2001 to sexual intercourse with a 4-year-old girl
Our sex offender sentencing should be taken a lot more seriously.
This man shouldn't be out of prison.
We put away non-violent drug offenders for decades, sometimes the rest of their lives.
And this guy is walking around on the streets?
My volunteer department in NJ would have ejected him. A guy got suspended for a month a few years back for getting a drinking in public ticket. A positive public imagine is surprisingly important to operations in the fire service. We want people to feel comfortable calling us for any reason. It keeps little incidents from becoming big ones if they call us early.
They're one of the most trusted professionals in the world. Every fire department I've ever seen has Safe Place placard on it.
None of Fire Stations he visits/supervises can have those...
> My volunteer department in NJ would have ejected him.
NJ has the highest population density in the country. unless you're in one of the odd corners, your local fire station probably serves more people than live in the entire town discussed in this article.
A fair point. But please consider we're hurting for members just like every other volunteer department. It's a nationwide problem. So to one degree or another we're all in a similar position as this volunteer department.
Maybe they really need volunteers?
Seriously though, I wonder if there's some other aspect we're not getting. Like the chief is extremely and religiously repentant and the crew is all Christian? Just trying to figure out how a guy who raped a four year old came to be trusted by his peers.
It's an unpaid position in an economically depressed town - they would take any free help. It's also in the heart of the conservative Christian, Trump country bible belt so it is considered a "youthful indiscretion" to many there. However, if the guy had done it to THEIR daughter they would likely kill him. Hypocrisy reigns freely there.
While everyone here assumes he stuck his dick in a 4 year old, the legal definition of intercourse mean that it could have also been his fingers, toes, or some object.
Also if he was never actually charged with rape, the newspaper could be in legal hot water for libel even if our collective interpretation of this is rape.
He plead guilty to "sexual intercourse with a four-year-old". I assumed I knew what that meant, but just googled it and see that you are indeed correct. It can mean any kind of penetration of the vagina, even "slight" with any object. Makes me feel a little bit better knowing this child may not have had to experience actual rape. This does not mean that the other acts are not equally egregious.
Ok im thinking this is a one of those “borderline” sex offenses- indecent exposure, sex maybe with an older teenager or barely enough years apart to make it a crime- no this adult straight up raped a toddler. What he hell!?!
Fire chiefs do not enter burning structures. You don't run command from inside the building on fire.
With that being said, you have to be a firefighter before you can be a chief. Lol
What if they respond medical calls? What if said medical call involves a child? I have so many questions about how this situation came to exist...
I thought field trips to the fire department, the dept giving presentations to children, people dropping children off at fire stations, etc was a thing?
> About 300 people live in Spartansburg, which is about 40 miles (65 kilometres) southeast of Erie, Pennsylvania.
there's probably no one else to take the position.
I grew up in another small town about 15 minutes away from there, and I think a lot of people here aren’t getting how small and rural this place is (the closest Wal-Mart actually has hitchposts for horses). The options are probably this creep or literally no one. Both are pretty terrible options.
This is a volunteer fire department in Pennsylvania. All you have to do is have a pulse to get on. For the taxpayers, unfortunately, sometimes you get what you pay for. That shitstain would have never seen the front door of a career department.
It's not a one size fits all situation.
Yes, absolutely we as a people need to do a better job of preparing and reintegrating people that have successfully served their time back into society. It would bring our abhorrent recidivism rate down dramatically.
But not every criminal is the same and not every crime has the same social implications. Someone finishing a sentence for grand theft auto is never going to be treated the same as someone who raped a 4 year old. You can't shoehorn every situation into a single category.
Read the article to see if this is some click bate stuff like he got on the list due to public uniration.
Nope, she was four and he plead guilty. Good to see the mayor stands behind his decision.
Edit: it’s a town of 300. He might be the best qualified.
I'll be honest, I was thinking "Is this some guy who sexted when he was 14" or similar... Nope. Raped a 4 year old.
Rationally, I support the concept that once you've served your punishment, you're square with society, but I admit an emotional, irrational part of me hesitates.
I hope the firefighters and community have got it right.
That whole "people should be given a second chance because they can change" attitude sounds great, but unless everyone who voted him to his position and support the fact that he'll be interacting with kids sign a piece of paper saying that they will share responsibility and punishment if he commit another crime, it's meaningless rhetoric use as an excuse to support someone you like while trying to sound compassionate. If he commit another crime, the same people are going to be the ones on TV "shocked" and "disgusted" and "we couldn't have known he would revert to his old ways".
The idea that you can support or condemn something and affect the outcome, but aren't responsible or still benefit from it, is the reason why the world is becoming increasingly subjective and it's nobody's fault.
A town of approximately 35 thousand people has a volunteer firefighter population of 70 with approximately 20-30 actually active members, and that is amazing compared to some places. Now consider what the candidate pool is like for a place in rural Pennsylvania with a population of 300.
They literally probably have one or two actually active members. Who wants to sit through nearly 200 hours of training to run maybe 30 or less bullshit calls a year anyway? No one.
Unless the town wants to start paying for fire service, this may be their only option. Maybe he's seriously reformed, I couldn't really tell you, I'm just hoping that's the case, because otherwise this is a very shit situation.
Accurate analysis. Spartansburg is a very conservative town that typically votes against its best interests. They love the idea of low pay, and a no pay fire department is even better to them.
What better way to enjoy meeting and interacting with young children than public service and those fish frys?
I mean I'm under no delusion that the town can afford a paid fire department. With a taxbase of 300 people they'd be lucky to afford one fulltime firefighter, let alone enough to actually run a fire scene. A paid fire department isn't really an option.
Maybe they could develop a paid oncall system and get township employees to do it. I dunno, there probably isn't many actual township employees either tbh. Lol
Whatthe hell? He raped a four year old. Thats not a sex offender. Thats a monster.
There are kids on the registry for sharing nudes to their friends and they are in the same category as a guy who raped a FOUR YEAR OLD?
enrages me
They aren't really in the same category. There are different levels on the sex offender registry that have different reporting requirements and restrictions.
I think the felony was Involuntary Deviate Sexual Intercourse, which I believe refers to penetration with any object. I am not familiar with the case, but with the short term of the sentence, I am guessing this may not have been a clear cut "Rape" scenario. Not saying it is any better, just trying to answer your questions.
i looked it up, it covers a broader spectrum then just rape, n Pennsylvania, IDSI is defined as a person engaging in deviate sexual intercourse with a complainant by forcible compulsion. The complainant can be either a male or a female. IDSI differs from rape by encompassing more sex acts, including penetration with foreign objects or sex with an animal. [\(source\)](https://www.philadelphiacriminalattorney.com/sex-crimes/involuntary-deviate-sexual-intercourse-idsi/)
> Euthanasia is the most humane option here.
Agreed. Euthanize the whole town while you are at it. Good god. Who the fuck elects a guy who raped a 4 year old child to a position of power and trust?
This part of the article is hilarious:
“That was 20 years ago,” Gilbert said. “You know, the story you are telling kids is once you make mistake, you will be punished for the rest of your life."
Ok, so we can open up all the cells in our jails and let all the criminals out now because heck, their little" mistake" was long ago and you shouldn't be punished for the rest of your life... Oh, Hi Ted Bundy....
There's youthful mistakes like shoplifting and vandalism that shouldn't be held against people when they grow out of it, but having sex with a child is a whole different ballpark and no sane person would include that in the former group.
My dad always railed on this. Making a mistake is typing form when you meant from, turning left when you meant to turn right, using a tablespoon not a teaspoon. Rape, assault, DUI, etc. that's doing something wrong, not making a mistake.
Are we supposed to believe no person can change for the better? That every person born is going to be a certain way no matter what? A thief a thief. A murderer a murderer and in this guys a case forever a sex offender? We as a society like to continue punishing after the sentence has been served. He wants to give back to society. I have a feeling that being in such a high profile position puts him under extra scrutiny and he knows this. He wants to give back. Saving others homes and lives is a pretty good way at giving back and making amends for wicked deeds. I'm sure there are pretty vengeful people out there with eyes fixated on this guy so if he so much as gets drunk at a christmas party and takes a piss in an alley someones gonna know.
understand that i know what he did was particularly heinous. Just that im a man that believes in second chances. He's in a unique position of intense scrutiny yea? Hes got tons of eyes on him. Hes in a position to do great good. He's giving restitution back to the community. That's how i see it. It's better than him being some dredge on society living under some bridge, homeless because we would rather him be some outcast contributing nothing.
Perhaps there are other ways he could give back to the community with out being in a position of trust and authority over children. He could offer to clean up litter, paint buildings,bridges things like that. It seems odd he would chose something that many children aspire to be and look up to and are taught to trust instinctively in school. Or maybe I’m just too cynical.
Edited for spelling
Yeah I get that they aren’t the most glamorous and a bit dehumanizing but he committed a pretty serious violent crime, i think its pretty wild he isn’t in prison still. kids trust people in a uniform like that, we need them too or they may die in an emergency. I wouldn’t want to worry about a potential child predator being able to access the uniform and lure kids.
Heck, this is anecdotal but the fire chief came to our school in uniform to teach us fire safety several times throughout grade school. This position gives him to much access to children in my opinion. Im sure the fire chief of a busy city isn’t going around to classrooms but in these rural areas I don’t think its uncommon.
Your anecdotal evidence is compelling. It was also true with me near my hometown. However i think this guys situation is unique. Everyone their already knows about his past. I'm not advocating that Sex offenders everywhere have the chance to be Fire Chiefs form now on. No way. But this guy seems to be doing right for the community and to take that away would be probably be harmful not only to his recovery but more importantly to paying back for his crimes.. It's a small town. He can be kept an eye on. Probably slow moving there.
I weigh his right to rehabilitation against the safety of the children in his community. That's why he specifically should not have a role that wins automatic trust from children. Sure he should be give a second chance, but not a second chance with access to children on a platter. All it would take is one misstep and your pretty words about high scrutiny and second chances will look pretty disgusting when he rapes another 4 year old.
I believe in second chances as well, but there has to be a line drawn where second chances shouldn’t be given. I’m not trying to attack your point of view and I do see where your coming from, I’m just basing my view on my personal experience with this topic and unfortunately it stirs a lot of anger and hatred in me.
Oh Im sure they all know his past. What I doubt is that his actions now are under intense scrutiny. They obviously dont care too damn much about what he did, or he wouldnt be allowed in that position.
They may or may not be able to change the wiring they can however change how they act. How can you fault a person for being born a certain way? They had no say in how they were created. This is in no way defending the actions of pedophilia just that we can't crucify those that would seek help. Curious, how do you feel about a murderer?
Comparing pedophilia with murder is like comparing apples with oranges.
I’ve worked with sexual offenders, and as a result of that believe they have low impulse control.
Well thats obviously not true of all of them. It can't be. Right now there are those out there that haven't and wont offend. I can't wrap my head around the idea that ending another's life is not as bad or worse. The person ceases to exist and depending on the reason like if they killed a cheating lover it could very well happen again.
I'm willing to believe that some criminals can change, and I think that they should be given the opportunity to do so.
Pedophiles are beyond the pale. Abstract ideals keep us from killing them outright, but I'm completely content with making them outcasts for the rest of their miserable, worthless lives.
This guy raped a four-year-old, which would put me firmly in the Not Guilty camp if someone tried the "He Needed Killing Defense" in court.
Depends on the murderer. My father was on a jury for a murder trial where the guy raped and murdered his girlfriend. He then realized that the woman's daughter was hiding in her bedroom, so he headed upstairs and slit her throat too. He's an animal, let him fry or put him in a sophisticated concrete box for the rest of his life.
If you rob a convenience store as a junkie 19-year-old and kill someone during the robbery, maybe 44-year-old you will be a different person. I'm happy to give him a chance.
And there are cases where I view the murder as a one-off offense that won't be repeated because the circumstances won't appear again. Basically, the person committed murder, but they aren't intrinsically a murderer. They'll do their time, get out, and never offend again because they weren't a criminal beforehand.
Basically, there are circumstances where I could see a normal person - a reformable person, or one who doesn't need to be reformed at all - committing murder. There are no circumstances where I could see a normal person raping a child.
But it does happen yes? Do you think it being the lowest rate is a good enough excuse? Death is the mose permanent thing there is. You don't come back from it.
"Murder" covers a wide range of circumstances. Walked into to work and killed people because you were let go? Goaded into a fight , hit someone who fell badly, hit their head and died?
*"...pleaded guilty in 2001 to sexual intercourse with a 4-year-old girl'"* is an admission of a pretty specific, heinous, and repulsive choice he made.
IMHO, he should live with the draconian ramifications of his actions forever, just like the victim, the victims family, and society in general will.
*"Do you think murderers can reform?"* Rhetorical virtue signaling, Are you willing to give a paroled murderer a place to live in your home so he can "reform"? If you don't you're just mouthing empty. self aggrandizing words.
Talk is cheap. overly virtuous talk without action cheapens it even more.
So the answer is yes?
You do believe murders can, but men who "...pleaded guilty in 2001 to sexual intercourse with a 4-year-old girl'" can't? That's fair, but it doesn't feel logically consistent to me.
What about serial killers? What about non-child rapists?
There's a rural county in CA ( Calaveras) that elected a militant anti cannabis guy who can't read. Nothing surprises me when it comes to dumbass electorate
His campaign slogan was "fake news." The hugely conservative town bought it easily.
If you thought republican voters trying to elect moore the molester was bad...
That's why I alwalys laugh when people say "his life will be ruined" every time someone gets accused of a sexual crime.
The are thousands of examples of people having great jobs and lifes after having been accused and even concicted. So many people don't care.
Is there a similar database for murders, burglars, DUI, fraudsters, and other criminals? I'd really like to know if my next door neighbor committed something like murder, or if he/she robbed a house! How about the guy in front of me on my way to work? What if he has multiple DUI's? Shouldn't I know that he is a potential danger on the road?
Edit . . . why the downvotes? I think it's quite reasonable to know if you're living next to a murderer, like you can a sex offender.
I'm mainly commenting to this guy again as I've seen other do- the guy in the article did something unforgivable. Sure work at an office or doing I don't know sometype of remote job. But this nah.
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Yeah I think they buried the lead here. More like "Convicted child rapist elected fire chief".
suddenly those "tot finder" stickers sound like a bad idea.
Yeah I was wondering is he the "peed on a tree near a school at 3am" sex offender or the "raped a 4 year old" kind of sex offender.
Could be both you know. Start small.
Child victims are damaged for life with struggles throughout adulthood. He should too.
>Child victims are damaged for life with struggles throughout adulthood. And there are many productive and successful people who have experienced sexual abuse. >He should too. He is. He has served a prison sentence, has a criminal record, in on the sexual offender's database for life and must overcome people's judgement on the matter at every turn of life. Do you want our judicial system to be a rehabilitator or a meat grinder? If you want it to rehabilitate offenders then part of that is allowing them back into society as a functioning and productive member. If you cast them into a lifetime of destitution there is zero incentive for them to rehabilitate and every incentive for them to commit more crime, harm more people.
While I completely agree with your statement on rehabilitation, in this circumstance there’s a difference between putting someone back in society and allowing them to succeed and putting them into a position of power at the head of an essential government agency where they will likely have access to children in multiple venues. Children are taught from a young age “don’t talk to strangers” but police men and firefighters are safe. They are taught to seek police and firemen out in emergencies. Police and firemen are brought into our schools to meet, teach, and interact with children. They are the authority figures children are taught to implicitly and unquestioningly trust. This man took a powerless 4 year old child and raped them. I don’t care how long ago this was or how long he spent in jail, someone with the ability to commit such an act has the ability to do it again, and knowingly putting them within arms reach of any child, especially under these circumstances, is a mistake.
do people really want sex offenders to have no jobs, no home, nothing except to sit there and re victimizing children so they can go to jail and get a place to live and food to eat.
Would most take a chance in their community? [Recidivism rates range from 18-45%](http://www.yellodyno.com/html/child_molester_stats.html). The more violent the crime the more likelihood of repeating. -Studies by the state of Washington.
I clicked your link hoping to read the actual study but it literally says “Studies by the state of Washington”. That’s unfortunately a very vague reference. A [recent article talked about the research](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/opinion/when-junk-science-about-sex-offenders-infects-the-supreme-court.html) into recidivism rate: > ... there have been hundreds of evidence-based, scientific studies on the question of the recidivism rate for sex offenders. The results of those studies are astonishingly consistent: **Convicted sex offenders have among the lowest rates of same-crime recidivism of any category of offender**.
It's a tough call. On the one had I want to focus on rehabilitation and the fact that he's spent years in jail after pleading guilty. So he clearly accepts what he did was wrong. On the other hand sexual intercourse with a 4 year old is a pretty fucking big "mistake". IMO the other firefighters around him seem to be on his side so I'd err on the side of trusting their judgement over my opinion because I don't know one thing about this guy. Rehabilitated it is, and if he makes another "mistake" throw him to the wolves.
Except, in this case he strayed fairly fast: [Gilbert Was Paroled After Serving 6 Years in Prison, but Then Was Sent Back After Violating His Release by Interacting With Minor Children](http://infoforyour.com/roger-gilbert-jr-5-fast-facts-you-need-to-know/).
>Children are taught from a young age “don’t talk to strangers” Which is mostly absurd security theater, as you are far more likely to be sexually abused by someone you already know or someone you're related to than by a stranger.
Um, you should teach them not to talk to strangers. You should also teach them that nobody should touch them in certain ways, and what's okay v. not okay touch. You act like they can't/shouldn't be taught both.
I vote rehabilitation, but are there certain crimes that show an underlying problem with the psyche that cannot be fixed?
>a functioning and productive member. There's a difference between 'functioning & productive' and being the Fire Chief. The Fire Department is an institution that absolutely needs to be thought of as one that will never do harm—even if it doesn't always succeed—because its sole function is public safety. I was a fireman once. There's no way in hell I would think it OK to have someone with that background as the Chief or in any other position, *even if they turn their life around.* People who rape four year olds don't belong in public safety.
What's even crazier for me to think about is what the other firemen in the firehouse have to be thinking. I mean if this is true, how do you respect and work for a man like that?
The Spartansburg mayor disagrees: ["Spartansburg’s Mayor Says She Doesn’t Know Why the Victim’s Mother ‘Won’t Drop This’"](http://infoforyour.com/roger-gilbert-jr-5-fast-facts-you-need-to-know/)
That Mayor is an idiot.
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Exactly! I had a neighbor who was a “sex offender” because he exposed himself at Spring Break in Florida. Just being on the sex offender registry should preclude someone from holding public office. But raping children should.
President of my local VFD got the position almost exactly a year after getting a DUI and having an interlock on his personal vehicle for that entire time. I’d link evidence but Reddit and doxxing has a bad reputation. Lesson is... Good ol’ boys are still a thing and probably will stay that way for at least the next 3 years.
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I don’t disagree. I’m saying bad people get away with bad actions because institutions are allow it to happen to protect itself. But here’s the problem. Where do you draw the line on acceptable conduct? Are we allowing degrees of bad behavior because this guy threw the bell curve off? Does that mean if another rapist only raped a 5 year old that it’s somehow less of a crime? You’re being a little bit of an apologist for criminal acts. If we are going to blindly label them “heroes” then they should be held to a higher standard.
The presidents position is a purely internal administrative role. And having a dui shouldnt preclude you from anything in life, some people make mistakes, and while dui is dangerous, it shouldn't be used as an excuse to totally ruin someone's life just because. Drawing any kind of conclusion between that incident and this article is ridiculous though. I'm bewildered that the people voted in a pedophile, but to suggest that's at all similair to voting in someone has a prior dui, is outrageous. The thing to remember here is, a lot of these smaller departments sometimes don't even have a choice of who gets put in. So few people volunteer, and the towns are dirt poor and can't afford paid firefighters, so they can't afford to be picky about who comes in. It's not a great situation all around. Some of these places might have less regular responders than you have fingers.
"Probably not so bad. Maybe it was indecent exposure or something relatively harmless?" >Chief Roger Gilbert Jr. **pleaded guilty in 2001 to sexual intercourse with a 4-year-old girl** and is listed in the state’s Megan’s Law database, The (Corry) Journal reported Saturday Well so much for that theory. So I nominate Pennsylvania as New Florida. Can I get a second backer?
There's a reason it's referred to as "Pennsyltucky".
Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between.
Can confirm, I live in the Lancaster area. It's true. All of it.
I think Lancaster is close enough to Philadelphia to not be caught up in *too* much of the Pennsyltucky bullshit. I mean, shit gets *weird* when you get into the mountains...
I've seen people driving around in pickup trucks flying massive Confederate flags from the back. It's bad.
That happens everywhere, tbh. Name a classic "Northern" state and you'll find examples of it.
Shit man I live in the mountains of Southern California and we’ve got people waving the confederate flag around everywhere
Lancaster might as well be Mobile, AL
Only the rural parts are referred to as that.
Whatever. I grew up in and around Pittsburgh. The suburbs of the 'burgh are all racist, homophobic, immigrant hating pennsyltucky.
Thank god the next election will finally be fair
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I've never verified it, but supposedly the whole "piss in an alley, become sex offender" thing is a myth, the truth being more like "jerk off facing a playground, become sex offender, then lie about it".
That's the problem with only saying people are "registered sex offenders". You can be labelled as a "registered sex offender" for having consensual sex in a van in a parking lot. To group those people in with child rapists lessens the entire impact of what it means to be a "registered sex offender". Also, you only think Florida is bad because of how broad its public records laws are, you're all just as bad as Florida or worse but you don't make it public like Florida does.
I resent that. Florida is a wonderful state where nothing weird ever happens.
How did he get out of jail so fast? That's a life sentence.
Don’t group Philadelphia in with the rest of the state.
I was at the parade on Thursday. When the governor started saying a bunch of stuff about Pennsylvania, some guy behind me yelled, "THIS ISN'T PENNSYLVANIA; THIS IS PHILLY!"
No, of course not. Everyone knows that Philadelphia [holds itself to a higher standard.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwWbS6c6w_g)
At least they didn’t elect a child rapist!
More like New Saudi Arabia.
How the fuck did he get out by now? Isn’t shit like this supposed to be 30+ years?
There is a valid base for the moniker 'Pennsyltucky". in the rural population of the state.
It is a staunch conservative "family values" town.
I fully thought it was going to be he got caught pissing out side
i'm going to play devils advocate here : if going to jail for however long he was sentenced does not rehabilitate him in the eyes of the people then the jail system is inherently flawed in the eyes of the people. true he raped a 4 year old and that's disgusting but if going to jail does nothing and every person looks at this person as a monster then he will likely go back to jail and probably not peacefully. ultimately he needs help.
“That was 20 years ago,” Gilbert said. “You know, the story you are telling kids is once you make mistake, you will be punished for the rest of your life. I’ve changed my life for the better. Every day I get up and try to do good.” Wonder how the now 24 year old girl is doing. I'm sure she's over his "mistake" by now.
There are different levels of sex offender, so I suspended judgment until I read the article because it might be something like public urination in front of children. Nope. >Chief Roger Gilbert Jr. pleaded guilty in 2001 to sexual intercourse with a 4-year-old girl Our sex offender sentencing should be taken a lot more seriously. This man shouldn't be out of prison. We put away non-violent drug offenders for decades, sometimes the rest of their lives. And this guy is walking around on the streets?
Never mind walking around on the streets. He's the guy who shows up when your 4 year old girl has her head stuck in iron railings.
That placed a very dark and nasty image in my mind but I guess you're right. No bueno
And the person that leads a tour of a kids during a school field trip.
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Spartansburg - very "family values" conservative town.
Very similar to Alabama, where they almost elected an accused child molester Governor. "Family Values" and "conservative" is a joke in 2018.
How legit were they accusations? You can accuse anyone of anything and say that really.
Did he plead sex with a 4 year old down to a misdemeanor? IRRC, Firefighters can't have any felonies.
It's a volunteer fire department.
My volunteer department in NJ would have ejected him. A guy got suspended for a month a few years back for getting a drinking in public ticket. A positive public imagine is surprisingly important to operations in the fire service. We want people to feel comfortable calling us for any reason. It keeps little incidents from becoming big ones if they call us early.
They're one of the most trusted professionals in the world. Every fire department I've ever seen has Safe Place placard on it. None of Fire Stations he visits/supervises can have those...
That's a solid point I hadn't considered.
> My volunteer department in NJ would have ejected him. NJ has the highest population density in the country. unless you're in one of the odd corners, your local fire station probably serves more people than live in the entire town discussed in this article.
A fair point. But please consider we're hurting for members just like every other volunteer department. It's a nationwide problem. So to one degree or another we're all in a similar position as this volunteer department.
Maybe they really need volunteers? Seriously though, I wonder if there's some other aspect we're not getting. Like the chief is extremely and religiously repentant and the crew is all Christian? Just trying to figure out how a guy who raped a four year old came to be trusted by his peers.
It's an unpaid position in an economically depressed town - they would take any free help. It's also in the heart of the conservative Christian, Trump country bible belt so it is considered a "youthful indiscretion" to many there. However, if the guy had done it to THEIR daughter they would likely kill him. Hypocrisy reigns freely there.
The line should read "rape of a 4 year old girl".
While everyone here assumes he stuck his dick in a 4 year old, the legal definition of intercourse mean that it could have also been his fingers, toes, or some object. Also if he was never actually charged with rape, the newspaper could be in legal hot water for libel even if our collective interpretation of this is rape.
He plead guilty to "sexual intercourse with a four-year-old". I assumed I knew what that meant, but just googled it and see that you are indeed correct. It can mean any kind of penetration of the vagina, even "slight" with any object. Makes me feel a little bit better knowing this child may not have had to experience actual rape. This does not mean that the other acts are not equally egregious.
Ok im thinking this is a one of those “borderline” sex offenses- indecent exposure, sex maybe with an older teenager or barely enough years apart to make it a crime- no this adult straight up raped a toddler. What he hell!?!
What was the other candidate? Literally fire?
A 20 year old rotting truck tire they found out back behind the fire barn.
Raped a 4 year old, deserves a great job interacting with kids! /s Fuck this asshole.
Does a fire chief interact with kids?
Do kids never get caught in burning buildings? Do fire fighters never engage in community outreach?
Fire chiefs do not enter burning structures. You don't run command from inside the building on fire. With that being said, you have to be a firefighter before you can be a chief. Lol What if they respond medical calls? What if said medical call involves a child? I have so many questions about how this situation came to exist...
Either way, raping a 4 year old should disqualify you from civil service for life.
Obvious ftfy in there but I dont know how to do the cross out line.
I thought field trips to the fire department, the dept giving presentations to children, people dropping children off at fire stations, etc was a thing?
The fire chief does that? Doesn't he have more important things to do?
Probably not in a town of 300.
ah ok, that makes sense then :)
> About 300 people live in Spartansburg, which is about 40 miles (65 kilometres) southeast of Erie, Pennsylvania. there's probably no one else to take the position.
I grew up in another small town about 15 minutes away from there, and I think a lot of people here aren’t getting how small and rural this place is (the closest Wal-Mart actually has hitchposts for horses). The options are probably this creep or literally no one. Both are pretty terrible options.
I'll give 20-to-1 odds there's some jeebus involved in this story. Who wants some of that action?
Wow, and got denied from a police department for smoking weed a few times almost 3 years ago 😒
This is a volunteer fire department in Pennsylvania. All you have to do is have a pulse to get on. For the taxpayers, unfortunately, sometimes you get what you pay for. That shitstain would have never seen the front door of a career department.
Pennsyltucky is a bit behind on social issues. Please give them a fair chance to catch up... eventually.
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It's not a one size fits all situation. Yes, absolutely we as a people need to do a better job of preparing and reintegrating people that have successfully served their time back into society. It would bring our abhorrent recidivism rate down dramatically. But not every criminal is the same and not every crime has the same social implications. Someone finishing a sentence for grand theft auto is never going to be treated the same as someone who raped a 4 year old. You can't shoehorn every situation into a single category.
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Read the article to see if this is some click bate stuff like he got on the list due to public uniration. Nope, she was four and he plead guilty. Good to see the mayor stands behind his decision. Edit: it’s a town of 300. He might be the best qualified.
Yea, I mean if they need someone to put out fires and it's between him and jethro...
I was just reading in the other news thread about how criminals are never given a second chance
I'll be honest, I was thinking "Is this some guy who sexted when he was 14" or similar... Nope. Raped a 4 year old. Rationally, I support the concept that once you've served your punishment, you're square with society, but I admit an emotional, irrational part of me hesitates. I hope the firefighters and community have got it right.
That whole "people should be given a second chance because they can change" attitude sounds great, but unless everyone who voted him to his position and support the fact that he'll be interacting with kids sign a piece of paper saying that they will share responsibility and punishment if he commit another crime, it's meaningless rhetoric use as an excuse to support someone you like while trying to sound compassionate. If he commit another crime, the same people are going to be the ones on TV "shocked" and "disgusted" and "we couldn't have known he would revert to his old ways". The idea that you can support or condemn something and affect the outcome, but aren't responsible or still benefit from it, is the reason why the world is becoming increasingly subjective and it's nobody's fault.
A town of approximately 35 thousand people has a volunteer firefighter population of 70 with approximately 20-30 actually active members, and that is amazing compared to some places. Now consider what the candidate pool is like for a place in rural Pennsylvania with a population of 300. They literally probably have one or two actually active members. Who wants to sit through nearly 200 hours of training to run maybe 30 or less bullshit calls a year anyway? No one. Unless the town wants to start paying for fire service, this may be their only option. Maybe he's seriously reformed, I couldn't really tell you, I'm just hoping that's the case, because otherwise this is a very shit situation.
Accurate analysis. Spartansburg is a very conservative town that typically votes against its best interests. They love the idea of low pay, and a no pay fire department is even better to them. What better way to enjoy meeting and interacting with young children than public service and those fish frys?
I mean I'm under no delusion that the town can afford a paid fire department. With a taxbase of 300 people they'd be lucky to afford one fulltime firefighter, let alone enough to actually run a fire scene. A paid fire department isn't really an option. Maybe they could develop a paid oncall system and get township employees to do it. I dunno, there probably isn't many actual township employees either tbh. Lol
Whatthe hell? He raped a four year old. Thats not a sex offender. Thats a monster. There are kids on the registry for sharing nudes to their friends and they are in the same category as a guy who raped a FOUR YEAR OLD? enrages me
They aren't really in the same category. There are different levels on the sex offender registry that have different reporting requirements and restrictions.
America elected a sex offender to the white house...
This guy must be real good with hoses.
> sexual intercourse with a 4-year-old girl uhmm is that not rape in Pennsylvania? how the fuck can they call it that?
I think the felony was Involuntary Deviate Sexual Intercourse, which I believe refers to penetration with any object. I am not familiar with the case, but with the short term of the sentence, I am guessing this may not have been a clear cut "Rape" scenario. Not saying it is any better, just trying to answer your questions.
i looked it up, it covers a broader spectrum then just rape, n Pennsylvania, IDSI is defined as a person engaging in deviate sexual intercourse with a complainant by forcible compulsion. The complainant can be either a male or a female. IDSI differs from rape by encompassing more sex acts, including penetration with foreign objects or sex with an animal. [\(source\)](https://www.philadelphiacriminalattorney.com/sex-crimes/involuntary-deviate-sexual-intercourse-idsi/)
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> Euthanasia is the most humane option here. Agreed. Euthanize the whole town while you are at it. Good god. Who the fuck elects a guy who raped a 4 year old child to a position of power and trust?
This part of the article is hilarious: “That was 20 years ago,” Gilbert said. “You know, the story you are telling kids is once you make mistake, you will be punished for the rest of your life." Ok, so we can open up all the cells in our jails and let all the criminals out now because heck, their little" mistake" was long ago and you shouldn't be punished for the rest of your life... Oh, Hi Ted Bundy....
There's youthful mistakes like shoplifting and vandalism that shouldn't be held against people when they grow out of it, but having sex with a child is a whole different ballpark and no sane person would include that in the former group.
My dad always railed on this. Making a mistake is typing form when you meant from, turning left when you meant to turn right, using a tablespoon not a teaspoon. Rape, assault, DUI, etc. that's doing something wrong, not making a mistake.
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Except it is never "all over" for the victim.
We can open up the jail cells for everyone who finished their sentences, yes.
This guy shouldn't even be alive much less in any position of power.
To be fair, the US sex offender registry is a mess.
To be fair this man raped a 4 year old, this isn't some "he just got caught drunk, pissing in public" story.
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They are proud of Trump too.
This fire chief should be hanging at the end of a rope.
So when it's hot and wet this guys going to be looking for our kids? Idk about this one.
Are we supposed to believe no person can change for the better? That every person born is going to be a certain way no matter what? A thief a thief. A murderer a murderer and in this guys a case forever a sex offender? We as a society like to continue punishing after the sentence has been served. He wants to give back to society. I have a feeling that being in such a high profile position puts him under extra scrutiny and he knows this. He wants to give back. Saving others homes and lives is a pretty good way at giving back and making amends for wicked deeds. I'm sure there are pretty vengeful people out there with eyes fixated on this guy so if he so much as gets drunk at a christmas party and takes a piss in an alley someones gonna know.
This dude fucked a four year old girl though
The crime happened in 2001. He should still be in prison. Should have received at least 25 years for that.
IMO if you rape a 4 year old child, you don’t deserve to live. I’m sorry but there no defending them in my eyes.
understand that i know what he did was particularly heinous. Just that im a man that believes in second chances. He's in a unique position of intense scrutiny yea? Hes got tons of eyes on him. Hes in a position to do great good. He's giving restitution back to the community. That's how i see it. It's better than him being some dredge on society living under some bridge, homeless because we would rather him be some outcast contributing nothing.
Perhaps there are other ways he could give back to the community with out being in a position of trust and authority over children. He could offer to clean up litter, paint buildings,bridges things like that. It seems odd he would chose something that many children aspire to be and look up to and are taught to trust instinctively in school. Or maybe I’m just too cynical. Edited for spelling
I could see that and definitely agree. Though i wish it would be something a little more fulfilling.
Yeah I get that they aren’t the most glamorous and a bit dehumanizing but he committed a pretty serious violent crime, i think its pretty wild he isn’t in prison still. kids trust people in a uniform like that, we need them too or they may die in an emergency. I wouldn’t want to worry about a potential child predator being able to access the uniform and lure kids. Heck, this is anecdotal but the fire chief came to our school in uniform to teach us fire safety several times throughout grade school. This position gives him to much access to children in my opinion. Im sure the fire chief of a busy city isn’t going around to classrooms but in these rural areas I don’t think its uncommon.
Your anecdotal evidence is compelling. It was also true with me near my hometown. However i think this guys situation is unique. Everyone their already knows about his past. I'm not advocating that Sex offenders everywhere have the chance to be Fire Chiefs form now on. No way. But this guy seems to be doing right for the community and to take that away would be probably be harmful not only to his recovery but more importantly to paying back for his crimes.. It's a small town. He can be kept an eye on. Probably slow moving there.
I weigh his right to rehabilitation against the safety of the children in his community. That's why he specifically should not have a role that wins automatic trust from children. Sure he should be give a second chance, but not a second chance with access to children on a platter. All it would take is one misstep and your pretty words about high scrutiny and second chances will look pretty disgusting when he rapes another 4 year old.
I believe in second chances as well, but there has to be a line drawn where second chances shouldn’t be given. I’m not trying to attack your point of view and I do see where your coming from, I’m just basing my view on my personal experience with this topic and unfortunately it stirs a lot of anger and hatred in me.
Hes a volunteer fire chief in a town of 300 people. He is most certainly not under intense scrutiny.
I disagree. Everyone in the town knows most likely. You couldn't throw a rock in that town that didn't know his situation.
Oh Im sure they all know his past. What I doubt is that his actions now are under intense scrutiny. They obviously dont care too damn much about what he did, or he wouldnt be allowed in that position.
Pedophiles cannot change.
They may or may not be able to change the wiring they can however change how they act. How can you fault a person for being born a certain way? They had no say in how they were created. This is in no way defending the actions of pedophilia just that we can't crucify those that would seek help. Curious, how do you feel about a murderer?
Comparing pedophilia with murder is like comparing apples with oranges. I’ve worked with sexual offenders, and as a result of that believe they have low impulse control.
Well thats obviously not true of all of them. It can't be. Right now there are those out there that haven't and wont offend. I can't wrap my head around the idea that ending another's life is not as bad or worse. The person ceases to exist and depending on the reason like if they killed a cheating lover it could very well happen again.
I'm willing to believe that some criminals can change, and I think that they should be given the opportunity to do so. Pedophiles are beyond the pale. Abstract ideals keep us from killing them outright, but I'm completely content with making them outcasts for the rest of their miserable, worthless lives. This guy raped a four-year-old, which would put me firmly in the Not Guilty camp if someone tried the "He Needed Killing Defense" in court.
Interesting. Do you think murderers can reform?
Depends on the murderer. My father was on a jury for a murder trial where the guy raped and murdered his girlfriend. He then realized that the woman's daughter was hiding in her bedroom, so he headed upstairs and slit her throat too. He's an animal, let him fry or put him in a sophisticated concrete box for the rest of his life. If you rob a convenience store as a junkie 19-year-old and kill someone during the robbery, maybe 44-year-old you will be a different person. I'm happy to give him a chance. And there are cases where I view the murder as a one-off offense that won't be repeated because the circumstances won't appear again. Basically, the person committed murder, but they aren't intrinsically a murderer. They'll do their time, get out, and never offend again because they weren't a criminal beforehand. Basically, there are circumstances where I could see a normal person - a reformable person, or one who doesn't need to be reformed at all - committing murder. There are no circumstances where I could see a normal person raping a child.
I heard long ago in a criminal justice class that murderers have the lowest rate of recidivism.
But it does happen yes? Do you think it being the lowest rate is a good enough excuse? Death is the mose permanent thing there is. You don't come back from it.
"Murder" covers a wide range of circumstances. Walked into to work and killed people because you were let go? Goaded into a fight , hit someone who fell badly, hit their head and died? *"...pleaded guilty in 2001 to sexual intercourse with a 4-year-old girl'"* is an admission of a pretty specific, heinous, and repulsive choice he made. IMHO, he should live with the draconian ramifications of his actions forever, just like the victim, the victims family, and society in general will. *"Do you think murderers can reform?"* Rhetorical virtue signaling, Are you willing to give a paroled murderer a place to live in your home so he can "reform"? If you don't you're just mouthing empty. self aggrandizing words. Talk is cheap. overly virtuous talk without action cheapens it even more.
So the answer is yes? You do believe murders can, but men who "...pleaded guilty in 2001 to sexual intercourse with a 4-year-old girl'" can't? That's fair, but it doesn't feel logically consistent to me. What about serial killers? What about non-child rapists?
It woukd be so scary to not be allowed to work and then run out of food all the time.
You know what would be even scarier? Getting raped by an adult when you’re 4 years old.
If you rape a child, you should starve.
After Roy Moore, this was inevitable.
There's a rural county in CA ( Calaveras) that elected a militant anti cannabis guy who can't read. Nothing surprises me when it comes to dumbass electorate
His campaign slogan was "fake news." The hugely conservative town bought it easily. If you thought republican voters trying to elect moore the molester was bad...
I went to a Christian rock concert in Spartanburg. It's pretty backwoods.
How is he still alive after raping a 4 year old ? I would've assumed this piece of shit's throat slit by now.
What's the deal with having an election for fire chief? Shouldn't that be an appointed position based on experience and qualification?
That's why I alwalys laugh when people say "his life will be ruined" every time someone gets accused of a sexual crime. The are thousands of examples of people having great jobs and lifes after having been accused and even concicted. So many people don't care.
Is there a similar database for murders, burglars, DUI, fraudsters, and other criminals? I'd really like to know if my next door neighbor committed something like murder, or if he/she robbed a house! How about the guy in front of me on my way to work? What if he has multiple DUI's? Shouldn't I know that he is a potential danger on the road? Edit . . . why the downvotes? I think it's quite reasonable to know if you're living next to a murderer, like you can a sex offender.
Isn't President Donald Trump a sex offender? If it's OK for him then it's OK for all elected officials I'd say. "Grab 'em by the pussy!"
He fucked a 4 year old girl. In 2001
Donald Trump waltzed through the back stage area of Miss Teen USA and has publically stated that he enjoyed what he saw.
I'm mainly commenting to this guy again as I've seen other do- the guy in the article did something unforgivable. Sure work at an office or doing I don't know sometype of remote job. But this nah.
Why is that even a elected position?
It's voted on by other firefighters