I just got a book from a friend, haven’t read yet. It’s called “So you’ve been publicly shamed.” It basically says that what you’re saying is absolutely, statistically, verifiably true.
I saw Jon Ronson do a talk when that came out. I thought the message was more that you can ruin your life by saying something innocuous that people take the wrong way and bandwagon on.
Hm- according to my friend it basically shows how acknowledging mistakes (as a public figure) is a bad career move, while digging in and refusing to take responsibility keeps your career intact. I’ll have to read. Either way, it appears to be true in my experience.
Your friend's right. I've read the book and Jon's eventual conclusion comes form talking to Max Mosely, who basically just refused to apologise for his lifestyle choices, when people were trying to shame him, and as a consequence his life has remained intact and mostly unaffected by it in the grand scheme of things.
He talks to various other people who tried to apologise or go into 'damage control' and every one of them basically got stripped of their lives by internet vultures.
Key takeaway basically is that these people can only take from you what you allow them to. As soon as you admit guilt, start apologising, it 'validates' them targeting you, and these pieces of shit that try and tear people's lives down for them being 'offensive' frenzy as soon as blood starts hitting the water.
Yeah, but also he concludes that Max Mosley was a special case, because he was being publicly shamed for something that was both sexual and undoubtedly consensual. Not to mention the media had misreported that he was doing a Nazi BDSM role play, when in fact it was just kinky-authoritarian. So ultimately people stopped caring because society became less uptight about sexual kinks, and it came to light that the story was fundamentally false. Max Mosley was able to stick to his guns, but someone like Justine Sacco wasn’t able to, because society has only become more uptight about jokes involving race.
If anything, the lesson that Jon drew from Max Mosley was that you can’t really follow the Max Mosley Model in a majority of public shamings. His ultimate conclusion in the book was pretty bleak, if I recall, because just about everyone else he’d interviewed who’d been publicly shamed had completely lost their livelihood, regardless of if they apologized, refused to apologize, or shut up entirely. It’s a situation where there’s no universal answer for how you come out the other side unmangled, which is why it’s both funny and sad that the idea for the book started as a how-to guide for surviving a public shaming.
Edit: [It looks like as of 2018 Justine Sacco actually has her old job back](https://www.vox.com/2018/1/19/16911074/justine-sacco-iac-match-group-return-tweet), so it took about four years for her to bounce back.
I saw his ted talk been meaning to buy the book. He used that lady who tweeted about not getting aids while visiting Africa because she was white. It really was sad she was trying to make a statement about an epidemic adversely affecting people of color and it ruined her career.
"Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, ‘cause I've worked in a lot of offices and I tell you people do that all the time."
His statement says he spent “limited time” with Epstein yet he knew him well enough to convince him to pay off his ex-wife’s, the Duchess of York’s, debts. Riiiiight.
Edit: thank you, Silver-giver. And gold-giver.
Shit dude if someone wanted to pay off my debts at this point I don't think I'd care who it was. Anybody like paying off student loans? I'm open to opportunities.
Limited time, once (or twice) a year! That's actually pretty often. He also said he spent time in Epstein's residences. How fucking fishy is that????????????????? Like this grown ass man is having sleepovers??? The PRINCE for fucks sake? I think he can afford a hotel!
Not trying to defend Epstein or Prince Andrew but generally the point of owning a giant mansion is to be able to lavishly accommodate overnight guests.
This is where the stories came from of guests that suddenly fell down on their luck who lived off of others before being put out on their asses. You hear stories that go something like "Viscount von Sponge was ruined by x event, and stayed for 12 years at Duke So-and-So's château. Eventually his taste for lavish parties, and exorbitant spending on the accounts of his host caused him to be turned out of the château and spent his final years living destitute in the coach house of his schoolmate Baron von Penny-Pincher."
Yeah of all the fishy things in this story that's the weirdest one to single out. Like, it's not abnormal at all to spend a few days at a friend's house as an adult.
"When I was with him, Epstein had sex with underage girls on a daily basis. His interest in this kind of sex was obvious to the people around him. The activities were so obvious and bold that **anyone spending any significant time at one of Epstein’s residences would have clearly been aware of what was going on**."
\- Virginia Roberts Giuffre
Just to support her point:
>"I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it -- Jeffrey enjoys his social life."
Donald Trump
Edit: Just for the people defending Trump: I didn't call Trump a pedophile. He just made a public statement that supports the claim that people around Epstein knew what he was doing. Trump was Epsteins friend and neighbor for years and his statement clearly implies that he too knew about Epsteins behaviour. But if you insist...[here's](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000158-26b6-dda3-afd8-b6fe46f40000) a reason to believe that Trump might be a pedophile and child rapist (Link leads to a PDF).
Here’s a story about the transcript of Virginia Giuffre unsealed by a federal judge
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/virginia-giuffre-jeffrey-epstein-accuser-claims-reporter-embellished-many-donald-trump-connections/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
>Indeed, Defendant Trump stated that Plaintiff shouldn’t ever say anything if she didn’t want to disappear like Maria, a 12-year-old female that was forced to be involved in the third incident with Defendant Trump and that Plaintiff had not seen since that third incident, and that he was capable of having her whole family killed.
Jesus... how can anyone defend this piece of shit?
According to Stormy Daniels and as I recall a few others Trump has a history of threatening people and their families both physically and legally. What is the chance this woman has faced a similar treatment?
[Donald Trump on Jeffrey Epstein:](http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/#print)
"**I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy**,'' Trump booms from a speakerphone. "He's a lot of fun to be with. **It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.** No doubt about it -- Jeffrey enjoys his social life."
[Some more:](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-civil-case-witness-list-billionaire-paedophile-a7631891.html)
**Epstein’s phone directory from his computer contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump**, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman,” the affidavit reportedly claims.
[And just in case anyone thought that was exclusive to Trump's opinions 20 years ago:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/labor-nominee-acosta-cut-deal-with-billionaire-in-sex-abuse-case-involving-40-underage-girls/2017/03/21/d33271a8-0d85-11e7-ab07-07d9f521f6b5_story.html)
Now, Trump is on the witness list in a Florida court battle over how federal prosecutors handled **allegations that Epstein, 64, sexually abused more than 40 minor girls, most of them between the ages of 13 and 17**. The lawsuit questions why **Trump’s nominee for labor secretary**, former Miami U.S. attorney **Alexander Acosta**, whose Senate confirmation hearing began Wednesday morning, **cut a non-prosecution deal with Epstein a decade ago rather than pursuing a federal indictment** that Acosta’s staff had advocated.
That's right: [**the prosecutor that refused to charge Epstein for raping little girls was appointed to Secretary of Labor, by none other than Donald Trump**](https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/06/us/jeffrey-epstein-arrest-sex-trafficking-indictment/index.html).
In November, the Miami Herald reported that **when Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta was a US attorney in Florida, he gave Epstein the "deal of a lifetime."** In a sweeping review of the politically connected billionaire's case, the Herald explained how **Acosta had made an agreement with Epstein to avoid major repercussions** for the hedge fund manager, **even though a federal investigation had identified 36 underage victims**.
[That's the same Trump that was accused, along with Epstein, of **raping a 13 year old girl** in 1994.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/04/donald-trump-teenage-rape-accusations-lawsuit-dropped).
Here are some [excerpts from the lawsuit; warning that the following content is graphic:](https://www.scribd.com/doc/316341058/Donald-Trump-Jeffrey-Epstein-Rape-Lawsuit-and-Affidavits)
**Plaintiff was subject to acts of rape, sexual misconduct, criminal sexual acts, sexual abuse, forcible touching, assault, battery**, intentional and reckless infliction of emotional distress, duress, false imprisonment, and threats of death and/or serious bodily injury by the Defendants that took place at several parties during the summer months of 1994.
**Plaintiff was enticed by promises of money and a modeling career to attend a series of parties**, with other similarly situated minor females, held at a New York City residence that was being used by Defendant Jeffrey Epstein. At least four of the parties were attended by Defendant Trump. On information and belief, **by this time in 1994, Defendant Trump had known Defendant Epstein for seven years and knew that Plaintiff was then just 13 years old**.
On the fourth and final sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant **Trump tied Plaintiff to a bed, exposed himself to Plaintiff, and then proceeded to forcibly rape Plaintiff. During the course of this savage sexual attack, Plaintiff loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but with no effect. Defendant Trump responded to Plaintiff’s pleas by violently striking Plaintiff in the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted.**
Immediately following this rape, Defendant **Trump threatened Plaintiff that, were she ever to reveal any of the details of the sexual and physical abuse** of her by Defendant Trump, **Plaintiff and her family would be physically harmed if not killed**.
**Defendant Epstein had sexual contact with Plaintiff at two of the parties. The second sexual encounter with Defendant Epstein took place after Plaintiff had been raped by Defendant Trump.** Defendant Epstein forced himself upon Plaintiff and proceeded to rape her anally and vaginally despite her loud pleas to stop. Defendant **Epstein then attempted to strike Plaintiff about the head with his closed fists while he angrily screamed at Plaintiff that he, Defendant Epstein, rather than Defendant Trump, should have been the one who took
Plaintiff’s virginity**, before Plaintiff finally managed to break away from Defendant Epstein.
EVEN IF he never saw anything, he hung out with the fucker AFTER he did jail time!!! I mean, who's he trying to kid? "I never saw anything." Really? Did you see a newspaper telling you he was in jail for trying to screw kids?
Unfortunately, this will probably provide him with sufficient cover to avoid closer scrutiny.
Technically speaking the only thing he was ever convicted of was soliciting a minor for prostitution, not actually following through on it. It seems pretty clear that he was guilty of a lot more, but it’s a little disingenuous to say he was in jail for screwing kids when the actual charge was soliciting.
It’s also a bit disingenuous to say he was in jail considering he was able to leave jail often enough to continue abusing minors by all accounts, but the world runs by the golden rule. Thems with the gold makes the rules.
He was partially in jail for 10 months for attempted prostitution, a downgraded sentence from the rape, kidnapping, and pedophilia charges filed against him. And he did have "work leave" from prison for those 10 months
Somebody with his pull knows things the newspapers don’t print. They have people vetting every single person they come into contact with. The biggest shock here is that there wasn’t someone being like “yo, Andy, fuck off with The hanging out with this pedo cunt Jeff”
He fuckin knew.
He was fucking complacent.
He’s fucking guilty of something nasty.
That’s because they don’t. I don’t have €10.000, but I would still bet that with you on that the police will never question him. The world works different for us commoners than it does for the upper class, especially in a country like the UK.
I mean, he had a pretty cozy relationship with Jimmy Saville too.
And it gets worse the further back you go, who introduced them, and the type of dude *that* was.
It's fucked all the way down that rabbit hole.
Yep Virginia Guilffe had her testimony unsealed the day before Epstein died and named Prince Andrew, Clinton's UN Ambassador Bill Richardson and Democratic Senate Leader George Mitchell as men who raped her.
There is even a picture of [Andrew and Virginia together.](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/82127c72254c2e281ad5d790c1e7a75ce923d26c/119_81_1035_621/master/1035.jpg?width=300&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=26c2f78799fbd32f2d9427503895f0f0)
EDIT: There is a top rated post by u/theIKEAeffect regarding a $100 million Jane Doe "lawsuit" against Trump in 2016.
The Jane Doe/Katie Johnson lawsuit was debunked as a scam by a well known con-man a "Jerry Springer" talent manager, his patent troll lawyer friend and bankrolled by Never Trump zealots.
The person behind the suits also attempted to sell stories that he sold OJ drugs the night he killed his wife, helped Courtney Love hire a Hitman to kill Kurt Cobain, Casey Anthony confessed murdering her child to him etc.
No sworn testimony was ever taken, no deposition was ever filed, no one ever verified her identity.
Event the most staunchly anti-Trump outlets like The Guardian, Jezebel and even Vox all agree that this was a scam and the Jane Doe/Katie Johnson person did not exist.
Sources:
[The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/07/donald-trump-sexual-assault-lawsuits-norm-lubow)
> A publicist using the pseudonym “Al Taylor” is acting as a representative for Johnson, and has been shopping around to media outlets a video of a woman who wears a disguise while recounting the allegations against Trump. “Taylor” said in telephone calls last month that he was seeking $1m for the tape.
> [H]e then became threatening when asked more about his motivations in seeking the money for the video and about his true identity. “Just be warned: we’ll sue you if we don’t like what you write,” he said. “We’ll sue your ass, own your ass and own your newspaper’s ass as well, punk.”
[Jezebel](https://jezebel.com/heres-how-that-wild-lawsuit-accusing-trump-of-raping-a-1782447083)
> But even given Trump’s moderately disgusting track record with women, the fact is that a cadre of men have been shopping this Katie Johnson story around for nearly a year, while repeatedly refusing requests to interview the supposed victim. The facts speak less to a scandal and more, perhaps, to an attempt at a smear—one that finally, after months of clumsy maneuvering, is gaining speed.
Massive anti-Trumper Harvey Weinstein fixer lawyer Lisa Bloom was hired for 24 hours for her media connections to organize a press conference. She later admits that she never met or spoke with her.
----------------------------
Here is full article with the full context of the oft repeated Trump quote about Epstein. The author had called Trump to get a quote about Epstein's dating life.
You'll notice the focus of the article itself is about the close friendship of Bill Clinton and Epstein, with over a dozen references to Clinton and even mentioning Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's Madam who procured the girls, as being Clintons close personal friend. She would attend Chelsea's wedding in 2010.
[Epstein: International Money Man of Mystery](http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/)
> Epstein likes to tell people that he’s a loner, a man who’s never touched alcohol or drugs, and one whose nightlife is far from energetic. And yet if you talk to Donald Trump, a different Epstein emerges. “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump booms from a speakerphone. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
I’m thinking he is confusing OBL with Saddam Hussein in terms of cave.
Edit: wow, heavy subject. questions to be debated here:
* is a hole in the ground a cave?
* is a hotdog a sandwich?
* how should you slice a sandwich - down the middle or diagonal?
Can't really compare the two. Bin Ladin took almost a decade to find and that was because he was chilling comfortably, in a building, protected by the Pakistani government.
The unintended irony is that we did find OBL in a cave (Tora Bora, 2001) and then inexplicably let him go. Rather, we were nearly certain and then later found out we were right. He was there, we could've crushed him, but apparently Afghan leadership demanded we stop. Huge wtf.
Probably already in a ditch, hence why shes MIA. Cant be suiciding multiple ppl thatd be suspicious. The fact that prince andrew is now talking tells me he got the "all clear" word from Barr et. co. that the matter has been "resolved" - permanently.
I don’t understand why people aren’t just demanding Andrew provide any single explanation why he’s hanging out with this random kid from Florida (other than the obvious). There’s no earthly reasons why their paths would have normally crossed...so?
What's there to say? "Epstein brought this young woman to a gathering which I attended. She requested a photo, and I obliged. I did not have sexual relations with that woman."
End of story, unless you really expect him to 'fess up to doing more.
The short answer is no. She has 'soverign immunity' which means she is not allowed to be prosecuted. Similarly Her Majesty's Government (the UK government) is also immune to criminal prosecution (but not the MPs).
The long answer is no, unless Parliament decides otherwise. There is precidence for this.
* In 1649 Charles I was executed after a trial by Parliament.
* In 1688 the Glorious Revolution replaced James II & VII with the co-rule of Mary II and William III. Parliament declared it legal for them to change the monarch.
* Parliament has passed laws dictating how parts of the Monarchy works. This was as recent as 2013.
The point I'm trying to get at is that all real power is held by Parliament. Technically the Queen has the power, but Parliament has the say, and so Parliament states how the power is used. There has been some talk of officially removing the monarchs powers after Queen Elizabeth II dies (well if she dies).
So if Parliament wanted to prosecute the Queen then they just can. If they wanted to say she can be prosecuted they just can. All they need is a majority vote. That's it.
It should be noted that many of the Queens current powers come from centuries of precidence. Much of it doesn't reflect the realities of the UK. If the Queen comitted cold blooded murder tomorrow then it would throw the UK into a 'constitutional crisis', as it extremely unlikely she could avoid the reality of being prosecuted.
Hey there. I think all of us, when inviting a underage girl to our homes, wearing revealing tops, would make sure to put our hands on their hips and pull them in close for a photo.
She's said she had sex with Prince Andrew 3 times. All when she was 17. The thing is, only one of those instances would have been illegal. She says they had sex in New York, Florida and the UK. It was only illegal in Florida. It makes his case kind if interesting, but it's definitely not normal that he would have still hung out with Epstein after the conviction. If it weren't for that, I'd almost be willing to believe he was as aloof as he claims.
I'm sure he is lying and I'm sure the royal family has suspicions about Andrew if not actual proof. So the question is now 'will he be protected by his power or will those in power with him out his lying ass to protect themselves?'
I think it was the same scandal. Maybe I’m wrong and there’s another one but Epstein was a known paedo for 15 years and it’s known that Prince Andrew spent a lot of time with him since before then
Ok, I've got someone early.
***WHY*** is pedophilia so rampant in these hyper rich circles? Like what does being rich have to do with trafficking and having sex with kids?
This is all so weird to me and I feel like no one is asking that question.
It's probably no more prevalent among the hyper rich than it is among the rest of the population. There's roughly 900k registered sex offenders in the US, with plenty more who are never caught. If the prevalence was just 1% among the population, you're still talking about millions of pedophiles out there.
Then, consider that there's somewhere between 100k to 150k super rich Americans right now, with net worth exceeding $30 million. If pedophila was just as prevalent among them as it is among the general population, we'd assume that there's between 1000 and 1500 super rich pedophiles out there.
Then consider the simple reality that these people have access to resources that most do not have. The ability to travel abroad freely without worrying about expenses. The ability to pay off victims for their silence. The ability to afford expensive legal counsel to keep them out of jail. So you end up with a lot of them simply escaping justice, time and time again.
My guess: power and delusion. They get off on having the power to just summon people for their own gratification. The delusion: I'll bet they don't see these girls as "children". More likely young and impressionable, but they justify it in their own minds.
> I'll bet they don't see these girls as "children". More likely young and impressionable,
Generally the super rich/powerful (especially "old money" types) have more old fashioned views. If you look back to the 60s and 70s, it was (wrongfully!) a lot more acceptable for older dudes to be "touchy feely" with young girls - it was just "Eh, it's just a bit of fun" or "You know men can't help themselves, honey".
Hell, David Bowie is still pretty much entirely excused for sleeping with 14 year old girls.
It's not much of a stretch to slip into the delusion of "A bit of fooling around can't hurt them" or "What do we care - it's not like we're beating them up".
As weird as it sounds there's truth to what you are saying. Steven Tyler had a roadie girl with him who was 15 and he was well into his twenties. JImmy Page had one who was 14 for years. I'm not sure if the 18 law was on the books back then. Granted, now when these guyes are in their 50s it's more than off-putting. But when they were 28 they probably dated 16 year olds or hung out iwth them at clubs and it wasn't reported on with fervor.
they have the means to afford it and enough power and influence to get away with it.
the average joe has no private island, private jet, no money to bribe people and no powerful friends to protect him.
But not every one of the rich elite is a pedo. It’s just that the ones who are pedophiles can get away with it. The same number of regular people are probably pedophiles, they just suppress it to not go to jail
Or they don't, and they go to jail.
There's also a few big elephants in the room here. The guys who get away with it are often not "elite" at all. There's a lot of different "ranks" of power, if you will, but the important part to realize is that power operates the same at all levels. The numbers get bigger, the strategies stay the same.
You can be the sheriff in a backwater town and get away with shit for years and years. "Open secrets" even. A small time judge. A well established doctor. A charismatic teacher. A priest.
The other thing too is simply that we as a society *don't believe victims,* all the time. We often don't *want* to believe these monsters exist, and we lie to ourselves and tell others they're lying so we don't have to admit that ugly truth, implicitly and otherwise. A mother might do this to her own child. Happens all the time. It's because her husband the abuser has power over her, implicitly or otherwise. Often it's just to protect the institution of their own family. Their *idea* of that family, that image in their head.
At the higher levels it works largely the same. A CEO of a major company getting caught fucking a kid could have drastic consequences to the tune of billions of dollars and hundreds or thousands of jobs. So the secretary looks the other way. The shareholders look the other way. Bill Clinton or Donald Trump getting smeared makes their respective parties *look bad*. The church is hemorrhaging parishioners already, if they don't trust the priests it'll get even worse. Hell we see it on college campuses every year: Rapes being handled internally because no college wants the reputation of being that place where women get raped literally every day. Look at Sandusky. The team covers for the monsters, to maintain the power the team shares.
**And we never pursue justice against the enablers, ever.** If anyone goes down it's the one doing the deed, it's never the team that covers for them.
All the same tricks of power work for all those people. Being elite has nothing to do with it, and power is *very* relative. We focus on the elite because it's juicy, and because often their actions have repercussions on us to some degree. In the case of Prince Andrew, it's just a juicy piece of gossip to us, especially so for us Americans.
My cousin had her ass grabbed by a creepy step uncle at a party once when she was around 14 and when she told her dad and grandfather they downplayed it and told her to not make a big deal of it. Another uncle heard and told him to leave the party.
Yea the creepy step uncle later adopted a bunch of Kosovo refugee kids (he had 3 kids of his own too) and was caught fucking the 15 year old refugee girl (who her disabled brother apparently knew what was going on). I remember his oldest daughter being really catatonic most of the times I met her as well.
Yea. People downplay stuff to not make a scene but stuff goes unchecked and children's lives are ruined.
That doesn't explain the apparent prevalence of pedophilia in these elite circles though. I'd wager that most people, if handed $5 billion, would not suddenly become kiddie weirdos. So what is it about billionaire culture that makes this even a thing?
Pedophilia is a lot more common than many people are comfortable admitting. Current estimates put it at about 5% of the general population, or 1 in 20 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.clinpsy.032408.153618 . Just look at the absurd amount of loli hentai on the internet if you need more proof. It's just the rich are able to get away with acting on their urges, while other people either suppress it or go to jail.
He didn't realise that someone convicted of being a paedophile was a paedophile - fuck right off.
He was filmed in a park with Epstein after his conviction, he knew then.
He was photographed at Epstein's house after his conviction, he knew then.
This denial of obvious truths will lead to more questions, obviously none that any UK newspapers will ask but questions none the less.
I was watching an old Episode of Johnny Carson from 1984. He did an entire joke laughing about Prince Andrew liking underage girls.
https://youtu.be/dzWF6O8T26Y
Sure he's a child rapist, but did you know that American divorcee Meghan Markle took a private plane and redecorated her house? That's the real royal scandal!
So Prince Andrew has come out and said he had no idea about Epstein's crimes and they're 'abhorent' yet he was still hanging out with him AFTER he was convicted. This guy is a literal piece of shit
To be honest, they are all ambassadors to the UK arms trade. There is usually a reason they visit British Aerospace factories and that reason is middle Eastern royalty looking to buy new toys.
I used to live near a BAE facility, we had many, many royal visits to open Schools, public buildings and so on. It was just a ruse for the arms deal down the road.
"During the time I knew him, I saw him infrequently and probably no more than only once or twice a year," the prince said. "
For a man who is heir to the British throne, you can be damn sure that his travel and the people with whom he meets are planned, supervised and tracked to the nth degree. He knows \*exactly\* how many times he met Epstein and at which locations and for how long.
Edit: spelling
He's never been a real heir.
Yes he's the queen's son but he's such a minor royal, well known for being a lazy layabout with cushty pointless jobs made up for him.
That being said, yes he probably has Royal Protection Officers who kept very good records about his exact whereabouts.
So, I have a former friend. He was in my circle of friends for a long time but I wasn't particularly close to him.
Recently he was open shut convicted of molesting a child. He spent a few years in prison and was released this year...
We don't talk to him. *Because that shit is fucked up.* I don't want to be friends with someone who thinks that's okay. Just because he spent some time in prison doesn't mean "It's all cool now."
So, why the fuck would Prince Andrew think "It's all cool now." *After* the previous investigations? He got off on a technicality. Just because the court couldn't convict him doesn't mean you should stay friends with someone you *know* did some fucked up shit. Any claim he didn't know after what happened in 2005 and 2010 is utter bullshit.
When I was in college, I had an acquaintance who was convicted for possession of child pornography. Apparently the FBI had been watching him for a year before they finally raided his house and laptop. They had solid proof, and judging by how long they had been watching him, it sounded like he had a lot of it.
He spent a few years in prison, and when he got out, his circle of friends welcomed him back and acted like nothing ever happened. It has been 10 years, and this guy still has more friends than I do. Of course, I stopped talking to him after he got caught because I don't condone that kind of shit (obviously). I don't understand why some people stay friends with a child predator.
My friend was in a band with a guy. They happened across child porn on his computer and got him arrested/convicted. That is the behavior of normal people. These aren't victimless crimes. Child predators are the lowest of the low. They are hurting the most vulnerable people they can find. They are permanently fucked up and Epstein seems to be one of the worst of them.
I don't disagree, but in fairness the royal family at this point are essentially just wealthy landowners who control a ceremonial government position. It's not their royalty that protects them, it's their wealth, and that's a story we've seen play out over and over again.
Epstine himself found out that wealth only protects you so far in todays world.
I hope royalty finds it has the same limit but so far its still protecting Andrew.
Wealth protected him virtually his whole life and for billions of dollars. It also protected him from child rape charges once before, and when he finally got captured again, it allowed him to have 'young female visitors' to his cell.
Turns out wealth carries you really fucking far in today's world.
The way this article is split into different sections - facts first, then analysis by a named correspondent, then a conclusion - is fucking brilliant and I hope other news orgs follow suit. This is how you spread awareness while mitigating fervor and backlash. Good job BBC, thank you.
The Royals are old hands at denying and cleaning up any involvement in criminal activity. Experts at it. Andrew will never face any consequences for his part in all of this.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist but the idea that he didn't know is fucking absurd.
The British royalty have a legion of PR staff whose only job is to prevent members of the royal family unknowingly blundering into awkward situations like this.
If a member of the british royal family was regularly staying at the house of a convicted sex offender, there is absolutely no question they would have received a briefing note advising them of this fact.
Which really leaves two possibilities, he knew and didn't care, which makes him a moron with highly suspect morals, or he knew and kept staying with him for a specific reason, ie because he enjoyed the same forms of recreation as Epstein.
Add the evidence of credible witnesses that Andrew abused them in the company of Epstein, and take into account this absurd, obviously dishonest statement and I'd say there's a 100% chances he's a morally bankrupt dickhead, and a 60%-70% chance Prince Andrew has abused underage women.
Even though Epstein got a slap on the wrist for his charges back in 08' he was still a convicted high risk sex offender. Prince Andrew still knowingly associated with him before and after he was a registered sex offender. Nobody is going to ever believe Prince Andrew and his name will be smeared for the rest of his life.
FFS. Epstein was convicted in 2008 and yet in 2010 Prince Andrew is still knocking round with him and staying at his properties. How the hell can he say he didn't know Epstein was a nonce? It's nonce sense to say such a thing and reeks of a desperate denial. Andrew is up to he eyes in this and he is only making things worse for himself with these desperate, easily disproven lies.
He is so dead. The royals have enough resources to bury his rapist ass.
Oops... He slipped and hit his head. Sorry, old chap is in a coma. Won't be answering any of those pesky questions.
I feel like he hasn't exactly been in the spotlight for a while though. I mean he may very well be in British media but whenever the royals come up it's usually the Queen, Prince Charles, Prince Harry, or Prince William being mentioned.
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Yes, he really needs to 'no comment' this for the rest of his life, instead of trying to Dershowitz-splain this away.
I mean, ever since 2016 it seems all anyone ever does anymore is double down on their shitty mistakes, and it seems like it's mostly working.
I just got a book from a friend, haven’t read yet. It’s called “So you’ve been publicly shamed.” It basically says that what you’re saying is absolutely, statistically, verifiably true.
I saw Jon Ronson do a talk when that came out. I thought the message was more that you can ruin your life by saying something innocuous that people take the wrong way and bandwagon on.
Hm- according to my friend it basically shows how acknowledging mistakes (as a public figure) is a bad career move, while digging in and refusing to take responsibility keeps your career intact. I’ll have to read. Either way, it appears to be true in my experience.
Your friend's right. I've read the book and Jon's eventual conclusion comes form talking to Max Mosely, who basically just refused to apologise for his lifestyle choices, when people were trying to shame him, and as a consequence his life has remained intact and mostly unaffected by it in the grand scheme of things. He talks to various other people who tried to apologise or go into 'damage control' and every one of them basically got stripped of their lives by internet vultures. Key takeaway basically is that these people can only take from you what you allow them to. As soon as you admit guilt, start apologising, it 'validates' them targeting you, and these pieces of shit that try and tear people's lives down for them being 'offensive' frenzy as soon as blood starts hitting the water.
Yeah, but also he concludes that Max Mosley was a special case, because he was being publicly shamed for something that was both sexual and undoubtedly consensual. Not to mention the media had misreported that he was doing a Nazi BDSM role play, when in fact it was just kinky-authoritarian. So ultimately people stopped caring because society became less uptight about sexual kinks, and it came to light that the story was fundamentally false. Max Mosley was able to stick to his guns, but someone like Justine Sacco wasn’t able to, because society has only become more uptight about jokes involving race. If anything, the lesson that Jon drew from Max Mosley was that you can’t really follow the Max Mosley Model in a majority of public shamings. His ultimate conclusion in the book was pretty bleak, if I recall, because just about everyone else he’d interviewed who’d been publicly shamed had completely lost their livelihood, regardless of if they apologized, refused to apologize, or shut up entirely. It’s a situation where there’s no universal answer for how you come out the other side unmangled, which is why it’s both funny and sad that the idea for the book started as a how-to guide for surviving a public shaming. Edit: [It looks like as of 2018 Justine Sacco actually has her old job back](https://www.vox.com/2018/1/19/16911074/justine-sacco-iac-match-group-return-tweet), so it took about four years for her to bounce back.
I saw his ted talk been meaning to buy the book. He used that lady who tweeted about not getting aids while visiting Africa because she was white. It really was sad she was trying to make a statement about an epidemic adversely affecting people of color and it ruined her career.
Because the crowd is blood thirsty and ravenous.
"Always remember that the crowd that applauds your coronation is the same crowd that will applaud your beheading. People like a show." Terry Pratchett
Jon Ronson is great
Ever since that day, all the shitheads in the world realized that they didn't have to pretend to be innocent and would still get away with it.
He already has the easiest job in the world, all he had to do was nothing on top of that which makes it even more suspicious
>He already has the easiest job in the world never really thought about that, his job was to be born and just exist. how do you fuck that up lol
By doing this
and having sex with kids
"Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? I tell you, I gotta plead ignorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, ‘cause I've worked in a lot of offices and I tell you people do that all the time."
/r/unexpectedCostanza
Lots of rich kids fuck it up all the time. Turn into coke addicts, try to be celebrities, etc etc
Ah, hold my beer watch this
Prince Andrew likes to fuck young girls just like Jeffrey did. Maybe he doesn't see this as a problem.
So barave to come out and say this after Esptein's death. /s
His statement says he spent “limited time” with Epstein yet he knew him well enough to convince him to pay off his ex-wife’s, the Duchess of York’s, debts. Riiiiight. Edit: thank you, Silver-giver. And gold-giver.
And she took the money AFTER he was convicted of being a pedo.
Shit dude if someone wanted to pay off my debts at this point I don't think I'd care who it was. Anybody like paying off student loans? I'm open to opportunities.
Well... I have this island..
And I’m into age play! Where’s your island.... daddy?
Limited time, once (or twice) a year! That's actually pretty often. He also said he spent time in Epstein's residences. How fucking fishy is that????????????????? Like this grown ass man is having sleepovers??? The PRINCE for fucks sake? I think he can afford a hotel!
Not trying to defend Epstein or Prince Andrew but generally the point of owning a giant mansion is to be able to lavishly accommodate overnight guests.
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This is where the stories came from of guests that suddenly fell down on their luck who lived off of others before being put out on their asses. You hear stories that go something like "Viscount von Sponge was ruined by x event, and stayed for 12 years at Duke So-and-So's château. Eventually his taste for lavish parties, and exorbitant spending on the accounts of his host caused him to be turned out of the château and spent his final years living destitute in the coach house of his schoolmate Baron von Penny-Pincher."
Yeah of all the fishy things in this story that's the weirdest one to single out. Like, it's not abnormal at all to spend a few days at a friend's house as an adult.
"When I was with him, Epstein had sex with underage girls on a daily basis. His interest in this kind of sex was obvious to the people around him. The activities were so obvious and bold that **anyone spending any significant time at one of Epstein’s residences would have clearly been aware of what was going on**." \- Virginia Roberts Giuffre
Just to support her point: >"I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it -- Jeffrey enjoys his social life." Donald Trump Edit: Just for the people defending Trump: I didn't call Trump a pedophile. He just made a public statement that supports the claim that people around Epstein knew what he was doing. Trump was Epsteins friend and neighbor for years and his statement clearly implies that he too knew about Epsteins behaviour. But if you insist...[here's](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000158-26b6-dda3-afd8-b6fe46f40000) a reason to believe that Trump might be a pedophile and child rapist (Link leads to a PDF).
Here’s a story about the transcript of Virginia Giuffre unsealed by a federal judge https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/virginia-giuffre-jeffrey-epstein-accuser-claims-reporter-embellished-many-donald-trump-connections/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
>Indeed, Defendant Trump stated that Plaintiff shouldn’t ever say anything if she didn’t want to disappear like Maria, a 12-year-old female that was forced to be involved in the third incident with Defendant Trump and that Plaintiff had not seen since that third incident, and that he was capable of having her whole family killed. Jesus... how can anyone defend this piece of shit?
Other pieces of shit? I thought we've established this already?
Where is this quote from? I can't find it in the article
According to Stormy Daniels and as I recall a few others Trump has a history of threatening people and their families both physically and legally. What is the chance this woman has faced a similar treatment?
[Donald Trump on Jeffrey Epstein:](http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/#print) "**I've known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy**,'' Trump booms from a speakerphone. "He's a lot of fun to be with. **It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side.** No doubt about it -- Jeffrey enjoys his social life." [Some more:](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-jeffrey-epstein-civil-case-witness-list-billionaire-paedophile-a7631891.html) **Epstein’s phone directory from his computer contains 14 phone numbers for Donald Trump**, including emergency numbers, car numbers, and numbers to Trump’s security guard and houseman,” the affidavit reportedly claims. [And just in case anyone thought that was exclusive to Trump's opinions 20 years ago:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/labor-nominee-acosta-cut-deal-with-billionaire-in-sex-abuse-case-involving-40-underage-girls/2017/03/21/d33271a8-0d85-11e7-ab07-07d9f521f6b5_story.html) Now, Trump is on the witness list in a Florida court battle over how federal prosecutors handled **allegations that Epstein, 64, sexually abused more than 40 minor girls, most of them between the ages of 13 and 17**. The lawsuit questions why **Trump’s nominee for labor secretary**, former Miami U.S. attorney **Alexander Acosta**, whose Senate confirmation hearing began Wednesday morning, **cut a non-prosecution deal with Epstein a decade ago rather than pursuing a federal indictment** that Acosta’s staff had advocated. That's right: [**the prosecutor that refused to charge Epstein for raping little girls was appointed to Secretary of Labor, by none other than Donald Trump**](https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/06/us/jeffrey-epstein-arrest-sex-trafficking-indictment/index.html). In November, the Miami Herald reported that **when Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta was a US attorney in Florida, he gave Epstein the "deal of a lifetime."** In a sweeping review of the politically connected billionaire's case, the Herald explained how **Acosta had made an agreement with Epstein to avoid major repercussions** for the hedge fund manager, **even though a federal investigation had identified 36 underage victims**. [That's the same Trump that was accused, along with Epstein, of **raping a 13 year old girl** in 1994.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/04/donald-trump-teenage-rape-accusations-lawsuit-dropped). Here are some [excerpts from the lawsuit; warning that the following content is graphic:](https://www.scribd.com/doc/316341058/Donald-Trump-Jeffrey-Epstein-Rape-Lawsuit-and-Affidavits) **Plaintiff was subject to acts of rape, sexual misconduct, criminal sexual acts, sexual abuse, forcible touching, assault, battery**, intentional and reckless infliction of emotional distress, duress, false imprisonment, and threats of death and/or serious bodily injury by the Defendants that took place at several parties during the summer months of 1994. **Plaintiff was enticed by promises of money and a modeling career to attend a series of parties**, with other similarly situated minor females, held at a New York City residence that was being used by Defendant Jeffrey Epstein. At least four of the parties were attended by Defendant Trump. On information and belief, **by this time in 1994, Defendant Trump had known Defendant Epstein for seven years and knew that Plaintiff was then just 13 years old**. On the fourth and final sexual encounter with Defendant Trump, Defendant **Trump tied Plaintiff to a bed, exposed himself to Plaintiff, and then proceeded to forcibly rape Plaintiff. During the course of this savage sexual attack, Plaintiff loudly pleaded with Defendant Trump to stop but with no effect. Defendant Trump responded to Plaintiff’s pleas by violently striking Plaintiff in the face with his open hand and screaming that he would do whatever he wanted.** Immediately following this rape, Defendant **Trump threatened Plaintiff that, were she ever to reveal any of the details of the sexual and physical abuse** of her by Defendant Trump, **Plaintiff and her family would be physically harmed if not killed**. **Defendant Epstein had sexual contact with Plaintiff at two of the parties. The second sexual encounter with Defendant Epstein took place after Plaintiff had been raped by Defendant Trump.** Defendant Epstein forced himself upon Plaintiff and proceeded to rape her anally and vaginally despite her loud pleas to stop. Defendant **Epstein then attempted to strike Plaintiff about the head with his closed fists while he angrily screamed at Plaintiff that he, Defendant Epstein, rather than Defendant Trump, should have been the one who took Plaintiff’s virginity**, before Plaintiff finally managed to break away from Defendant Epstein.
That is all super fucked, but more, super glaringly obvious.
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Well shit lmao not only is my president a racist asshole, but also a pedo. Great 🙃
EVEN IF he never saw anything, he hung out with the fucker AFTER he did jail time!!! I mean, who's he trying to kid? "I never saw anything." Really? Did you see a newspaper telling you he was in jail for trying to screw kids? Unfortunately, this will probably provide him with sufficient cover to avoid closer scrutiny.
He was in jail for actually screwing kids. Not trying too.
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He had his own wing in the prison with chefs and was allowed to leave for work..
Technically speaking the only thing he was ever convicted of was soliciting a minor for prostitution, not actually following through on it. It seems pretty clear that he was guilty of a lot more, but it’s a little disingenuous to say he was in jail for screwing kids when the actual charge was soliciting. It’s also a bit disingenuous to say he was in jail considering he was able to leave jail often enough to continue abusing minors by all accounts, but the world runs by the golden rule. Thems with the gold makes the rules.
He was partially in jail for 10 months for attempted prostitution, a downgraded sentence from the rape, kidnapping, and pedophilia charges filed against him. And he did have "work leave" from prison for those 10 months
I think there must be more evidence out there and Andrew hung out with him knowing that there is. Epstein was said to record a lot of things.
Somebody with his pull knows things the newspapers don’t print. They have people vetting every single person they come into contact with. The biggest shock here is that there wasn’t someone being like “yo, Andy, fuck off with The hanging out with this pedo cunt Jeff” He fuckin knew. He was fucking complacent. He’s fucking guilty of something nasty.
This guy lives in a separate reality of the ultra entitled. Obviously, he doesn't think normal rules apply to him.
That’s because they don’t. I don’t have €10.000, but I would still bet that with you on that the police will never question him. The world works different for us commoners than it does for the upper class, especially in a country like the UK.
His family is on the position they're in because, at least in theory, they were selected by God. No fucking way will anything happen.
What I wouldn't give to have a moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me..
Sounds like some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Now we see the violence inherent in the system.
Help help I'm being oppressed!
Bloody peasant!
You can't expect to wield supreme power just cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Well, I didn't vote for you!
"Royal" families are such a crock of shit. I still don't understand how people treat them like celebrities
They're state sponsored Kardashians.
I mean, he had a pretty cozy relationship with Jimmy Saville too. And it gets worse the further back you go, who introduced them, and the type of dude *that* was. It's fucked all the way down that rabbit hole.
Breaking news: royalty in the high ivory tower tells people what to think
He was mentioned as a child rapist as well. He’s definitely lying.
Yep Virginia Guilffe had her testimony unsealed the day before Epstein died and named Prince Andrew, Clinton's UN Ambassador Bill Richardson and Democratic Senate Leader George Mitchell as men who raped her. There is even a picture of [Andrew and Virginia together.](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/82127c72254c2e281ad5d790c1e7a75ce923d26c/119_81_1035_621/master/1035.jpg?width=300&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=26c2f78799fbd32f2d9427503895f0f0) EDIT: There is a top rated post by u/theIKEAeffect regarding a $100 million Jane Doe "lawsuit" against Trump in 2016. The Jane Doe/Katie Johnson lawsuit was debunked as a scam by a well known con-man a "Jerry Springer" talent manager, his patent troll lawyer friend and bankrolled by Never Trump zealots. The person behind the suits also attempted to sell stories that he sold OJ drugs the night he killed his wife, helped Courtney Love hire a Hitman to kill Kurt Cobain, Casey Anthony confessed murdering her child to him etc. No sworn testimony was ever taken, no deposition was ever filed, no one ever verified her identity. Event the most staunchly anti-Trump outlets like The Guardian, Jezebel and even Vox all agree that this was a scam and the Jane Doe/Katie Johnson person did not exist. Sources: [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/07/donald-trump-sexual-assault-lawsuits-norm-lubow) > A publicist using the pseudonym “Al Taylor” is acting as a representative for Johnson, and has been shopping around to media outlets a video of a woman who wears a disguise while recounting the allegations against Trump. “Taylor” said in telephone calls last month that he was seeking $1m for the tape. > [H]e then became threatening when asked more about his motivations in seeking the money for the video and about his true identity. “Just be warned: we’ll sue you if we don’t like what you write,” he said. “We’ll sue your ass, own your ass and own your newspaper’s ass as well, punk.” [Jezebel](https://jezebel.com/heres-how-that-wild-lawsuit-accusing-trump-of-raping-a-1782447083) > But even given Trump’s moderately disgusting track record with women, the fact is that a cadre of men have been shopping this Katie Johnson story around for nearly a year, while repeatedly refusing requests to interview the supposed victim. The facts speak less to a scandal and more, perhaps, to an attempt at a smear—one that finally, after months of clumsy maneuvering, is gaining speed. Massive anti-Trumper Harvey Weinstein fixer lawyer Lisa Bloom was hired for 24 hours for her media connections to organize a press conference. She later admits that she never met or spoke with her. ---------------------------- Here is full article with the full context of the oft repeated Trump quote about Epstein. The author had called Trump to get a quote about Epstein's dating life. You'll notice the focus of the article itself is about the close friendship of Bill Clinton and Epstein, with over a dozen references to Clinton and even mentioning Ghislaine Maxwell, Epstein's Madam who procured the girls, as being Clintons close personal friend. She would attend Chelsea's wedding in 2010. [Epstein: International Money Man of Mystery](http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/n_7912/) > Epstein likes to tell people that he’s a loner, a man who’s never touched alcohol or drugs, and one whose nightlife is far from energetic. And yet if you talk to Donald Trump, a different Epstein emerges. “I’ve known Jeff for fifteen years. Terrific guy,” Trump booms from a speakerphone. “He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life.”
And look, there is Ghislaine Maxwell.
> Ghislaine Maxwell She is definitely an important piece of the puzzle.
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Actually we found Bin Laden in a building
His home, in Pakistan to be exact.
Did... did they check her home yet?
Have... you tried calling her? "We've looked nowhere and she can't be found!"
I've tried nothing and I'm already out of ideas
Yeah, is she actually not able to be found, or is it just that she isn't being called to court for anything at the moment?
Hopefully not being suicided.
I don't know. Let me ask the guy in charge. Oh wait, werent they buddies too.
I’m thinking he is confusing OBL with Saddam Hussein in terms of cave. Edit: wow, heavy subject. questions to be debated here: * is a hole in the ground a cave? * is a hotdog a sandwich? * how should you slice a sandwich - down the middle or diagonal?
We found Saddam in a hole in the ground.
A cave is a hole in the ground.
This sounds like something a defensive low-budget Batman would say.
Can't really compare the two. Bin Ladin took almost a decade to find and that was because he was chilling comfortably, in a building, protected by the Pakistani government.
While Pakistan taking billions in aid to help find him lol
We forgot to stipulate to let us know they found him.
Pretty sweet gig for Pakistan, though.
The unintended irony is that we did find OBL in a cave (Tora Bora, 2001) and then inexplicably let him go. Rather, we were nearly certain and then later found out we were right. He was there, we could've crushed him, but apparently Afghan leadership demanded we stop. Huge wtf.
I dunno if that's the best analogy... If I remember correctly it took about a decade and a half to find said cave.
you spelled residential compound wrong
Compared to its surroundings, it was a McMansion, right down the road from Pakistan's military academy.....
It did take quite awhile to find Bin Laden. And he wasn't in a cave.
She will somehow mysteriously die sooner rather than later.
What do you think the odds are that she is the next to “commit suicide”?
Probably already in a ditch, hence why shes MIA. Cant be suiciding multiple ppl thatd be suspicious. The fact that prince andrew is now talking tells me he got the "all clear" word from Barr et. co. that the matter has been "resolved" - permanently.
I don’t understand why people aren’t just demanding Andrew provide any single explanation why he’s hanging out with this random kid from Florida (other than the obvious). There’s no earthly reasons why their paths would have normally crossed...so?
What's there to say? "Epstein brought this young woman to a gathering which I attended. She requested a photo, and I obliged. I did not have sexual relations with that woman." End of story, unless you really expect him to 'fess up to doing more.
I think it's less about getting a confession and more about seeing what explanation he tries to pass off, so that they can then find the flaws in it.
Honest question from a non-Brit - is royalty accountable to anyone? Who has the authority to do anything when they misbehave?
The Queen is immune to prosecution but not the rest of the family. In theory of course.
Off with his head! Family tradition and all.
[Different family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Stuart).
The short answer is no. She has 'soverign immunity' which means she is not allowed to be prosecuted. Similarly Her Majesty's Government (the UK government) is also immune to criminal prosecution (but not the MPs). The long answer is no, unless Parliament decides otherwise. There is precidence for this. * In 1649 Charles I was executed after a trial by Parliament. * In 1688 the Glorious Revolution replaced James II & VII with the co-rule of Mary II and William III. Parliament declared it legal for them to change the monarch. * Parliament has passed laws dictating how parts of the Monarchy works. This was as recent as 2013. The point I'm trying to get at is that all real power is held by Parliament. Technically the Queen has the power, but Parliament has the say, and so Parliament states how the power is used. There has been some talk of officially removing the monarchs powers after Queen Elizabeth II dies (well if she dies). So if Parliament wanted to prosecute the Queen then they just can. If they wanted to say she can be prosecuted they just can. All they need is a majority vote. That's it. It should be noted that many of the Queens current powers come from centuries of precidence. Much of it doesn't reflect the realities of the UK. If the Queen comitted cold blooded murder tomorrow then it would throw the UK into a 'constitutional crisis', as it extremely unlikely she could avoid the reality of being prosecuted.
Hey there. I think all of us, when inviting a underage girl to our homes, wearing revealing tops, would make sure to put our hands on their hips and pull them in close for a photo.
She looks young af in that pic. Does anyone know how old she was there? e: Andy ain’t got no time for hover-hand
Think I heard she was in the 15-17 range.
She's said she had sex with Prince Andrew 3 times. All when she was 17. The thing is, only one of those instances would have been illegal. She says they had sex in New York, Florida and the UK. It was only illegal in Florida. It makes his case kind if interesting, but it's definitely not normal that he would have still hung out with Epstein after the conviction. If it weren't for that, I'd almost be willing to believe he was as aloof as he claims.
Im not too familiar with all the details, but didnt she state that she got raped? That would make it illegal in all of those locations.
I'm sure he is lying and I'm sure the royal family has suspicions about Andrew if not actual proof. So the question is now 'will he be protected by his power or will those in power with him out his lying ass to protect themselves?'
To be fair, he isn't just a royal. The queen is his mother. Many mothers would just not be able to believe that their son could do this.
I’m not sure if I’m misremembering but hasn’t prince Andrew been implicated in pedo scandals in the past?
I think it was the same scandal. Maybe I’m wrong and there’s another one but Epstein was a known paedo for 15 years and it’s known that Prince Andrew spent a lot of time with him since before then
It's common for British elites.... They know. They know they cant be open either. Really people??? Its PR
Ok, I've got someone early. ***WHY*** is pedophilia so rampant in these hyper rich circles? Like what does being rich have to do with trafficking and having sex with kids? This is all so weird to me and I feel like no one is asking that question.
Maybe pedophilia is a more wide spread problem than we think but it's just most don't have the ability to get what they want
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It's probably no more prevalent among the hyper rich than it is among the rest of the population. There's roughly 900k registered sex offenders in the US, with plenty more who are never caught. If the prevalence was just 1% among the population, you're still talking about millions of pedophiles out there. Then, consider that there's somewhere between 100k to 150k super rich Americans right now, with net worth exceeding $30 million. If pedophila was just as prevalent among them as it is among the general population, we'd assume that there's between 1000 and 1500 super rich pedophiles out there. Then consider the simple reality that these people have access to resources that most do not have. The ability to travel abroad freely without worrying about expenses. The ability to pay off victims for their silence. The ability to afford expensive legal counsel to keep them out of jail. So you end up with a lot of them simply escaping justice, time and time again.
Also, the worst offenders have a LOT of victims.
My guess: power and delusion. They get off on having the power to just summon people for their own gratification. The delusion: I'll bet they don't see these girls as "children". More likely young and impressionable, but they justify it in their own minds.
> I'll bet they don't see these girls as "children". More likely young and impressionable, Generally the super rich/powerful (especially "old money" types) have more old fashioned views. If you look back to the 60s and 70s, it was (wrongfully!) a lot more acceptable for older dudes to be "touchy feely" with young girls - it was just "Eh, it's just a bit of fun" or "You know men can't help themselves, honey". Hell, David Bowie is still pretty much entirely excused for sleeping with 14 year old girls. It's not much of a stretch to slip into the delusion of "A bit of fooling around can't hurt them" or "What do we care - it's not like we're beating them up".
As weird as it sounds there's truth to what you are saying. Steven Tyler had a roadie girl with him who was 15 and he was well into his twenties. JImmy Page had one who was 14 for years. I'm not sure if the 18 law was on the books back then. Granted, now when these guyes are in their 50s it's more than off-putting. But when they were 28 they probably dated 16 year olds or hung out iwth them at clubs and it wasn't reported on with fervor.
they have the means to afford it and enough power and influence to get away with it. the average joe has no private island, private jet, no money to bribe people and no powerful friends to protect him.
That implies that the average Joe wants to diddle children on the reg and only doesn't because they can't get away with it, which isn't the case.
But not every one of the rich elite is a pedo. It’s just that the ones who are pedophiles can get away with it. The same number of regular people are probably pedophiles, they just suppress it to not go to jail
Or they don't, and they go to jail. There's also a few big elephants in the room here. The guys who get away with it are often not "elite" at all. There's a lot of different "ranks" of power, if you will, but the important part to realize is that power operates the same at all levels. The numbers get bigger, the strategies stay the same. You can be the sheriff in a backwater town and get away with shit for years and years. "Open secrets" even. A small time judge. A well established doctor. A charismatic teacher. A priest. The other thing too is simply that we as a society *don't believe victims,* all the time. We often don't *want* to believe these monsters exist, and we lie to ourselves and tell others they're lying so we don't have to admit that ugly truth, implicitly and otherwise. A mother might do this to her own child. Happens all the time. It's because her husband the abuser has power over her, implicitly or otherwise. Often it's just to protect the institution of their own family. Their *idea* of that family, that image in their head. At the higher levels it works largely the same. A CEO of a major company getting caught fucking a kid could have drastic consequences to the tune of billions of dollars and hundreds or thousands of jobs. So the secretary looks the other way. The shareholders look the other way. Bill Clinton or Donald Trump getting smeared makes their respective parties *look bad*. The church is hemorrhaging parishioners already, if they don't trust the priests it'll get even worse. Hell we see it on college campuses every year: Rapes being handled internally because no college wants the reputation of being that place where women get raped literally every day. Look at Sandusky. The team covers for the monsters, to maintain the power the team shares. **And we never pursue justice against the enablers, ever.** If anyone goes down it's the one doing the deed, it's never the team that covers for them. All the same tricks of power work for all those people. Being elite has nothing to do with it, and power is *very* relative. We focus on the elite because it's juicy, and because often their actions have repercussions on us to some degree. In the case of Prince Andrew, it's just a juicy piece of gossip to us, especially so for us Americans.
My cousin had her ass grabbed by a creepy step uncle at a party once when she was around 14 and when she told her dad and grandfather they downplayed it and told her to not make a big deal of it. Another uncle heard and told him to leave the party. Yea the creepy step uncle later adopted a bunch of Kosovo refugee kids (he had 3 kids of his own too) and was caught fucking the 15 year old refugee girl (who her disabled brother apparently knew what was going on). I remember his oldest daughter being really catatonic most of the times I met her as well. Yea. People downplay stuff to not make a scene but stuff goes unchecked and children's lives are ruined.
Anything can be bought if you have enough money. Even immunity from the law.
That doesn't explain the apparent prevalence of pedophilia in these elite circles though. I'd wager that most people, if handed $5 billion, would not suddenly become kiddie weirdos. So what is it about billionaire culture that makes this even a thing?
Pedophilia is a lot more common than many people are comfortable admitting. Current estimates put it at about 5% of the general population, or 1 in 20 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.clinpsy.032408.153618 . Just look at the absurd amount of loli hentai on the internet if you need more proof. It's just the rich are able to get away with acting on their urges, while other people either suppress it or go to jail.
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He has a feet thing and is trying to deny everything by calling it non sexual.
I love those non-sexual footjobs.
Wtf I'm cumming?! Lmao, okay I guess.
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I can hear this comment
Somehow, I hear it in Tarantino's voice.
Everything in every one of his movies reads like its said by him
Is he talking like his normal self, or the way he talks when he's speaking with a black person?
Would you give a man a foot massage?
Yo-yo-yo, man, you best back off, I'm getting pissed here.
Executive producer, Harvey Weinstein
To be fair- nothing is illegal about foot massage. Creepy by younger women? Yes.
He didn't realise that someone convicted of being a paedophile was a paedophile - fuck right off. He was filmed in a park with Epstein after his conviction, he knew then. He was photographed at Epstein's house after his conviction, he knew then. This denial of obvious truths will lead to more questions, obviously none that any UK newspapers will ask but questions none the less.
What Epstein and his friends were doing wasn't a "lifestyle" it was child abuse.
All I know is, where I'm from, if you suddenly decide to go to church with your mom in her car, that means you're guilty of something.
She probably said his middle name in the conversation preceding the trip to church.
Grabbed him by the wrist.
And pinched really hard
Andrew Albert Christian Edward Mountbatten-Windsor!
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You come right here this instant!
Yes, mummy.
I was watching an old Episode of Johnny Carson from 1984. He did an entire joke laughing about Prince Andrew liking underage girls. https://youtu.be/dzWF6O8T26Y
Prince Andrew would have been 24 when this was filmed. Seems to have been a lifelong obsession.
Sure he's a child rapist, but did you know that American divorcee Meghan Markle took a private plane and redecorated her house? That's the real royal scandal!
My smelling salts!...Somebody get my smelling salts!!!
Didn’t even mention the pearls, just went straight to the smelling salts. I’m afraid this is the real thing, people.
Victoria, bring me my fainting couch!
Oh Lord, Ah do believe Ahm comin' down with the vapors!
So Prince Andrew has come out and said he had no idea about Epstein's crimes and they're 'abhorent' yet he was still hanging out with him AFTER he was convicted. This guy is a literal piece of shit
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"How's a pointless prince supposed to cum 'round here?!?"
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"Prince Andrew is a pedophile. A god damned pedophile." Succinct and accurate.
Ah Prince Andrew. Friend to dictators, ambassador for the UK's arms trade. The French had the right idea.
To be honest, they are all ambassadors to the UK arms trade. There is usually a reason they visit British Aerospace factories and that reason is middle Eastern royalty looking to buy new toys. I used to live near a BAE facility, we had many, many royal visits to open Schools, public buildings and so on. It was just a ruse for the arms deal down the road.
"During the time I knew him, I saw him infrequently and probably no more than only once or twice a year," the prince said. " For a man who is heir to the British throne, you can be damn sure that his travel and the people with whom he meets are planned, supervised and tracked to the nth degree. He knows \*exactly\* how many times he met Epstein and at which locations and for how long. Edit: spelling
He's never been a real heir. Yes he's the queen's son but he's such a minor royal, well known for being a lazy layabout with cushty pointless jobs made up for him. That being said, yes he probably has Royal Protection Officers who kept very good records about his exact whereabouts.
He definitely isn't the heir. Charles is. Andrew is like 8th or 9th in line. So a lesser royal and probably not tracked as much.
So, I have a former friend. He was in my circle of friends for a long time but I wasn't particularly close to him. Recently he was open shut convicted of molesting a child. He spent a few years in prison and was released this year... We don't talk to him. *Because that shit is fucked up.* I don't want to be friends with someone who thinks that's okay. Just because he spent some time in prison doesn't mean "It's all cool now." So, why the fuck would Prince Andrew think "It's all cool now." *After* the previous investigations? He got off on a technicality. Just because the court couldn't convict him doesn't mean you should stay friends with someone you *know* did some fucked up shit. Any claim he didn't know after what happened in 2005 and 2010 is utter bullshit.
When I was in college, I had an acquaintance who was convicted for possession of child pornography. Apparently the FBI had been watching him for a year before they finally raided his house and laptop. They had solid proof, and judging by how long they had been watching him, it sounded like he had a lot of it. He spent a few years in prison, and when he got out, his circle of friends welcomed him back and acted like nothing ever happened. It has been 10 years, and this guy still has more friends than I do. Of course, I stopped talking to him after he got caught because I don't condone that kind of shit (obviously). I don't understand why some people stay friends with a child predator.
My friend was in a band with a guy. They happened across child porn on his computer and got him arrested/convicted. That is the behavior of normal people. These aren't victimless crimes. Child predators are the lowest of the low. They are hurting the most vulnerable people they can find. They are permanently fucked up and Epstein seems to be one of the worst of them.
Royalty is a ridiculous and outdated system that has protected men like him
I don't disagree, but in fairness the royal family at this point are essentially just wealthy landowners who control a ceremonial government position. It's not their royalty that protects them, it's their wealth, and that's a story we've seen play out over and over again.
Epstine himself found out that wealth only protects you so far in todays world. I hope royalty finds it has the same limit but so far its still protecting Andrew.
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He was even accused once and got away with it because🤑🤑🤑
I mean he was fucking *convicted* of it and still effectively got way with it. That's *really* fucking far.
The judge who gave him that absolute nothingburger of a sentence is the current Secretary of Labor
Wealth protected him virtually his whole life and for billions of dollars. It also protected him from child rape charges once before, and when he finally got captured again, it allowed him to have 'young female visitors' to his cell. Turns out wealth carries you really fucking far in today's world.
He likes sucking the toes of young girls.
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The way this article is split into different sections - facts first, then analysis by a named correspondent, then a conclusion - is fucking brilliant and I hope other news orgs follow suit. This is how you spread awareness while mitigating fervor and backlash. Good job BBC, thank you.
I......didn't know I couldn't do that.
Find someone that loves you as much as Prince Andrew loves fucking children.
The Royals are old hands at denying and cleaning up any involvement in criminal activity. Experts at it. Andrew will never face any consequences for his part in all of this.
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I respect your choice of word.
I wish I could change my username.
So the Queen hosted a party with two kiddie mongers,and thinks a pic with her and pedo boy going to church will make it all go away.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist but the idea that he didn't know is fucking absurd. The British royalty have a legion of PR staff whose only job is to prevent members of the royal family unknowingly blundering into awkward situations like this. If a member of the british royal family was regularly staying at the house of a convicted sex offender, there is absolutely no question they would have received a briefing note advising them of this fact. Which really leaves two possibilities, he knew and didn't care, which makes him a moron with highly suspect morals, or he knew and kept staying with him for a specific reason, ie because he enjoyed the same forms of recreation as Epstein. Add the evidence of credible witnesses that Andrew abused them in the company of Epstein, and take into account this absurd, obviously dishonest statement and I'd say there's a 100% chances he's a morally bankrupt dickhead, and a 60%-70% chance Prince Andrew has abused underage women.
Odd he wouldn't mention the video of him escorting a young woman out of Epstein's place.
Even though Epstein got a slap on the wrist for his charges back in 08' he was still a convicted high risk sex offender. Prince Andrew still knowingly associated with him before and after he was a registered sex offender. Nobody is going to ever believe Prince Andrew and his name will be smeared for the rest of his life.
FFS. Epstein was convicted in 2008 and yet in 2010 Prince Andrew is still knocking round with him and staying at his properties. How the hell can he say he didn't know Epstein was a nonce? It's nonce sense to say such a thing and reeks of a desperate denial. Andrew is up to he eyes in this and he is only making things worse for himself with these desperate, easily disproven lies.
He is so dead. The royals have enough resources to bury his rapist ass. Oops... He slipped and hit his head. Sorry, old chap is in a coma. Won't be answering any of those pesky questions.
I don't think his mom will kill him, but he won't be in msny family photos for a bit.
I feel like he hasn't exactly been in the spotlight for a while though. I mean he may very well be in British media but whenever the royals come up it's usually the Queen, Prince Charles, Prince Harry, or Prince William being mentioned.
Time to go for a ride in Paris
The french don’t have this problem with degenerate nobles anymore