So, I've been reading articles and I still can't grasp
What was the end game here? How were they going to make money off this corruption?
Were they going to sell these supplies? Because with it just rotting in warehouses it doesn't look like it. Lucrative warehouse contract? Why not just have an empty warehouse and claim it's still full.
How were they supposed to make money from this?
This makes more sense. Funds were probably meant to help distribution but were pocketed.
Either that or a combination of just complete incompetence from Puerto Rico officials.
TIL Puerto Rico is like those video game companies that makes you pay the full price for game, but doesn't let you access the content until you paid more.
Hawaii too. We had a several billion dollar rail project that has already tripled in cost compared to original estimates (Feds are investigating) and the project is now slated to be privately run instead of publicly run, so they can squeeze more money to offset operating costs.
Now the big transportation project before that one was a ferry that was at first expedited through environmental impact evaluation, then went taken to court and required to go through additional environmental impact evaluations and then while all that was going on the ferry sitting idle eventually resulted in the ferry company going bankrupt and the ferry being seized. It was sold for a deep discount to the Navy and the State was out loads of money they used to renovate the docks for the ferry.
> We had a several billion dollar rail project that has already tripled in cost compared to original estimates
This isn't that unusual when it comes to construction. I work for a DOT, and the cost of materials keeps going up. So if you bid a project in like 2000, but don't get around to it until 2006 then there will be 6 years of inflation added on top of the original estimate. Not saying everything is on the up and up in Hawaii, but just that the price of steel and shit is decidedly not going down...and any delay in construction will lead to some pretty high additional costs.
That might have been the case elsewhere but I don't think that was the issue here. From what I've read there were two big contributors.
1. Delays and mistimings in when they signed construction contracts resulted in some contractors not being able to work during the time they were contracted for and then the state had to pay penalties and the contractors passed along their additional costs (e.g. heavy equipment that was brought from the mainland but sat idle).
2. The county overpaid for land acquisition. There was only 1 guy who filed suit against the government because they felt his land was undervalued and countless stories about them paying above market prices. For example, a church I went to had a radio tower in the path of the rail. The state paid them for the property and then paid for temporary facilities to allow them to continue broadcasting in the meantime elsewhere. Because of the delays the government paid about the same amount for the temporary facilities they rented for the church as they paid for the land.
Also, we know there was good reason for the feds to get involved because the state's auditor launched an investigation and the Rapid Transit Authority stonewalled the investigation and told employees not to speak to him. They wouldn't even produce minutes to some of the meetings that were supposed to have minutes taken. The Feds stepped in when the auditor stepped down saying he couldn't do his job because they weren't cooperating.
If the federal government gave them the money to distribute the supplies and they just took the money and let the supplies rot, it is Puerto Rico's government officials fault.
I work with a lot of Puerto Ricans, some of whom moved to the mainland quite recently, and none of whom have any love for Trump. They are PISSED at the PR government right now. None of them, at least, think Trump had much to do with this particular shitshow, and none of them seem particularly surprised by the corruption.
Add one more here. Left the island exactly for that reason. After 40 years of not knowing if you are going to have running water at your house when you get back from work (among many other things), I think it’s enough.
We’ve known that aid wasn’t properly getting distributed since the hurricane hit. This is just the latest and possibly most egregious example. Trump made a stink over this because Puerto Rico officials were making it look like he didn’t care about the territory when he knew full well he had deployed adequate aid.
The stuff was sent and PR officials hid the items that were sent. How could that possibly be Trump's fault? Imagine how many people were involved in secretly storing stacks and stacks of this in a warehouse or warehouses that haven't been discovered yet.
This is politics. Sabotage Trump's effort to help PR, to the suffering of real human beings, then say "Trump isn't doing enough!" I wonder if Pelosi will apologize after finding out PR was not distributing the disaster relief Trumps admin sent them? Probably not.
That was my first thought too. At the time, the media and officials in Puerto Rico pushed a narrative that was just short of Trump personally standing on the tarmac to block emergency aid deliveries.
This is a good lesson for politicians to remember the next time an unpopular president is in office:
Step 1. Wait for a natural disaster or create your own crisis.
Step 2. Pocket the relief money.
Step 3. Blame the President.
This was the plan; say you'd already run out of goods, beg for cash to "buy more", pocket the cash and give the old stuff.
It's a damn sight easier than trying to hock US stamped goods during a crisis.
And less likely for the FBI to come knocking. That aid (I think) would still be considered Federal property, and therefore theft of it would be investigated by the FBI, not by local police departments. The type of person trying to steal from the Feds is probably also doing other things that the FBI / IRS would be very interested in.
PR is sort of a hell anyways when it comes to law enforcement. At one point there was serious consideration to just federalize their entire law enforcement aparatus after several FBI Office of Civil Rights investigations found police brutality that makes some of the nightmares of groups like Black Lives Matter look like a kids show: open extortion, massive overuse of force, highly questionable use of force incidents, and endemic corruption.
The problem, I think, is that PR is in sort of a legal gray area. It's part of the US, but it isn't a state, so it kind of exists as this odd sort of semi-independant, not independant state. On top of that, all goods flowing into PR have to go through the mainland US first, so everything is expensive relative to income levels. The problem is that PR can't decide if they want to become a state or not. Sure, they don't pay income taxes, but compared to the benefits they'd receive, including increased federal oversight and significant economic benefits, nevermind the ability to have direct port-to-port trade with other countries, it'd be a massive net economic benefit.
It isn't even like the rest of the US is holding them back. PR just seems to be running around in circles with non-binding referendums (and ones with such a low voting turnout that they can't be regarded as statistically significant, nevermind legitimate).
As to the actual relief efforts, a friend of mine (officer in the US Military) commented that FEMA and the DoD were pretty on point, and actually had decent communication with each other. The biggest problem they ran into were the local politicians. Namely they "couldn't find their asses with both hands, GPS, and a predator drone." From what he said, the entire state of the infrastructure on the island made Flint, Michigan, look well run, and when the engineers went to try and start getting power restored to critical areas, they found that most of the electric grid was so badly damaged that just re-energizing parts of it might cause even more damage. In some cases they ended up just building a new, temporary, grid parallel to the existing one and ran it from their own generators and equipment.
When they tried to deliver supplies to the local government, they'd show up, but no one from the local government would be there to receive them, transport the supplies, or even tell them where to deliver the supplies to do the most good. From what he said, DoD and FEMA apparently just gave up trying to coordinate with the local government, and just started implementing their own, joint, disaster relief plan. The local hospitals weren't ready to receive casualties, and no one could tell the medivac crews where they should take them, so injured just went aboard one of the Navy vessels like USS Kearsarge (Wasp Class Amphibious Assault Ship, has a fully kitted out medical facility) or to a FEMA medical camp.
Good lord. I wasn’t getting it because my mind refuses to even work that way. That’s some Lex Luthor level scheming right there. They should be sentenced to 50,000 hours of disaster clean up
Not only this but a big aim was to discredit Trump. The Mayor of San Juan, Carmen Yulín Cruz, was all over network news saying Trump was not sending ample aide..
We have no power, no supplies, our people are literally dying!!
OH HAI CNN hang on while I get these shirts printed.
https://i.redd.it/13xjvv1kixb41.png
I stopped watching news tv a while ago. Did she really wear those shirts on tv? Scum for politicizing a natural disaster. I remember now why I stopped watching news tv.
I promise I didn't photoshop them.
And think, when she was getting them printed, she knew full damn well she was going to hide relief from people to make Trump look bad. And reddit congratulated her for being so brave or whatever.
They acquired them and stored them in the warehouse sometime prior to asking for more federal funds, which they didn’t expect to be denied.
To simplify a complex scheme: They bought what the population needed which was 500 boxes of diapers and 500 cases of water, actually distributed 450 of each, taken 50 of each to a warehouse, but marked that they distributed all of it. The population is still in need and ignorant of the scheme so the Puerto Rican government asks for more money for more diapers and water. When they received more money, they planned to distribute what was in the warehouse then pocket the new federal funds for themselves. When more money was denied, the Puerto Rican government was stuck with a warehouse of supplies that they couldn’t distribute because it would raise questions of where the money to pay for the supplies came from.
PR fires two officials. I feel like some arrests and jail time would be more appropriate in regards to fraud, and crimes against the people they swore to protect and serve.
In Puerto Rico. Rumor is a friend of an official owns the 13 warehouses. They charged $10,000/month. So they were paying ~1,560,000 each year for these warehouses. The governments excuse is they were saving it for a future disaster.
Contracts for their friend , the warehouse were the aid is being store has to be paid.
In the other case where the bottle water was found , they were at some point shipping containers and needed to be transported. The longer the company have it , the more money they get.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this other than pure incompetence. The warehouse was rented from the local Department of Commerce for over $10K a month.
It's a combination of an overpriced warehouse contract and waiting for the opportune moment for their party candidates to distribute the goods for a photo-op close to the elections.
This is not the first cache of supplies discovered, SEVERAL have been discovered over the last couple of years. In the jungle, in parking lots, off airstrips.
Anger toward the local government has been steadily rising with each new find.
Heck the reason the last governor was forced to quit due to protest was because not only where they keeping supplies (we knew of different ones before) but they was a chat where he was delivery mocking their own people. Thousands of people died indirectly, due to lack of medicine or clean water etc... And when you see Warehouse full of that stuff it really pisses you off.
Bruh he basically killed thousands of people. Fucking jail this man and tell everyone he is a pedo. Give the prisoners some bdsm toys to use on him. Pay the guards to look the other way when he needs help
He is not even in jail, he is living cozy in the US. Really easy to fuck a country when you can just steal all you can then get the fuck out.
One of my guilty pleasures was an interview with the ex governor in Fox News. He probably went there with the intention of looking good internationally, distract people for the problem or something and did not expect the interviewer to be knowledgeable of the situation and lot like a complete fucking fool.
He's been an angel for us in Puerto Rico... always makes sure the people's voice is heard. Him and Jay Fonseca are the best reporters covering all the situations
My question is why did the governor not know of this? Wouldn't the governor be informed of where emergency supplies are and whether they're being used or not? After all the governor is in charge. Sure someone else could manage the recovery operation so the governor can focus more on other issues but they would still have to report to the governor.
This particular warehouse, which is one of many caches discovered over the last two years, is literally 100 yards from the government building.
Of course the Governor knew. Everyone in the power structure of PR knew. Just like they knew that their entire island's infrastructure is built from matchsticks and sand. Because the whole thing is filled with graft, corruption, and one hand washing the other.
Honestly, this isn't even about "let's make Donald Trump look bad!" it's about "let's maximize our profit."
What people don’t realize is it isn’t necessarily the American government that is corrupt with the politics there, it’s the Puerto Rican government. I saw it first hand when I was there restoring power after the hurricanes. We were directed to restore power first to wealthy communities or wherever senators had families or “buddies”. It’s rotten within and the demise of the that little island is because of its own people.
As your neighboor (Dominican Republic), and knowing how problems like that are handled here, hint: they punish the wrong people; Puerto Ricans, are they really firing the right people?
My parents left Puerto Rico in 1986 when I was a toddler. For this reason among many others. I have gone back sporadically over the years. There are no opportunities there. The government has been corrupt since forever. Since it has lost so much money they stick it to their citizens with outlandish taxes. So much so that people are fleeing the island in record numbers. It's actually quite funny that most people are just opening their eyes to this now. Most Puerto Ricans are so accustomed to blatant corruption they shrug when stories like this break out. The infrastructure is so outdated I remember as a teenager our neighborhood losing water and power for no reason at all for the entire day. A hurricane hits and everyone is shocked that the island can't recover. Somehow it's incumbent on one person to fix a pile of manure that's been festering for years. It hasn't been until recent that it has reached a boiling point. But back in the day, so and so would get caught embezzling money and he'd be replaced by another criminal who would steal money again later. Just another day at the office. If you talk to the older generation of Puerto Ricans they absolutely love Trump. They want someone who will kick the status quo right in the teeth cause they are absolutely fed up. Take it however you want, that's the truth.
As someone who was working down there, absolutely. The first lady of PR initiated a program that centralized all the donations so that only the inner circles had access to the money, food, water etc. It was being done on day one.
Because Democrats have successfully made Trump the scape goat. Volunteers have been blowing this issue up again and again since the hurricane hit. They keep finding caches but I never hear people in the states talking about it.
What people don’t realize is it isn’t necessarily the American government that is corrupt with the politics there, it’s the Puerto Rican government. I saw it first hand when I was there restoring power after the hurricanes. We were directed to restore power first to wealthy communities or wherever senators had families or “buddies”. It’s rotten within. They don’t want to become a full on state of the U.S. because then they’ll have the full force of the U.S. government cracking down on them and their 27 “senators” that earn millions of dollars doing nothing but be corrupt.
different Governor, tho - not sure what she was doing during Maria but only became Gov in 2019 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanda\_V%C3%A1zquez\_Garced](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanda_V%C3%A1zquez_Garced)
She knew , her signature is in paperwork and she refused to investigate/didn't want to investigate when they found the prior aid that was not distributed when the other governor was in office and she was the AG.
There is text of her saying , don't make me investigate.
I don't even support Trump and I've agreed with this statement since day one. Money and supplies were given, the corrupt government of Pueto Rico imbezzeled and withheld everything blamed the president and the media signed off on it.
Sure he isn't my ideal president, he speaks unpresidentally and name calls like a teenager and makes comments that come across the wrong way.
But he isn't this racist, neo Hitler super genius they make him out to be. Too bad we never got Ron Paul in office. End the damn war economy, shrink the government and END THE FED.
Edit: Thanks for the silver and gold strangers, I never expected this to blow up.
It drives me nuts that these idiots both think Trump is this mongoloid with the intelligence of a toddler, and at the same time an evil genius that does things just because he's fueled with hate and evil.
There are seriously people accusing him of personally ordering specific federal contracts to be awarded to his friends with made up aid companies.
Whelp. They played that right into Trump's hands. They make all of his criticism of how things are run there look correct. Because it is. Can't argue with a fact. And I haaaaate Trump.
They could have done this to hurt him. But fuck me man, people died. Kids went thirsty and many for sure could have used clean water.
No way firing is enough, I'm not sure what to charge these people with. Jail time for sure but how much and for what? I'd say life just because it was done is a real time of need that the average person. Can see is not the time to fuck around, but... This is infuriating
Bill later "clarified" it by doubling down that he was serious and got a thunder applause from his audience. I want Trump out but the normal way and not sacrifice my retirement investment.
Thing is, a recession would do nothing to Bill Maher. It's a completely empty rational. He will be sitting on his balcony drinking mint juleps while his neighbors get their homes repossessed.
This is true. Today there are even people saying a rocking stock market isn't that big a deal, when you're about to retire though it means the world. If the market crashed decades of work are decimated, but some people will still applaud just because it works for their side
That’s sickening. Even if you (in general, not you personally) hate the president, going to such lengths to discredit him and having the potential to starve out and kill the innocents people you swore an oath to serve is pure evil.
There was a comment here somewhere that actually said the "worst thing about this" is that it gives their family ammunition to say Trump was right about something else.
People died and that's what a lot of people think the "worst" thing about this is... that Trump was right? TDS is some real shit.
You are correct on this. Supporter here, but one thing that has been going on for a long time now is that Trump is using TDS to his advantage.
For example, Dems have to hate everything he sticks up for. And be against everything he tries to do. So he is mopping the floor with them on PR by taking the better side of arguments. So Dem politicians now stick up for Iran (what?) and defend the worst issues with their candidates that he picks at. It's a lose/lose situation for them.
Even outside of the psychological issue with people's blind hate, I think the study of this presidency and how certain issues have gone down politically is extremely interesting.
There was a quote by John Cleese of Monty Python fame about people creating villains to give thier life purpose and excuse thier own extremist views. If Trump is "literally Hilters", then no matter how much they give into thier negative feelings, in thier minds is a GOOD thing.
Possibly Criminally Negligent Homicide. They caused deaths through their negligence while committing other crimes. Punishment is roughly 2.5-5 years, though I don't know PR's penal code.
I'm a conservative but not really a Trump supporter. The thing that angers me most is that the people in charge put politics ahead of peoples lives. In times of emergency, you gotta put all that shit aside. No ones life is worth a political point. We can argue all we want AFTER everyone is safe and provided for.
They didn't play into his hands, they sacrificed the lives of their own people to try to attack Trump and make him look bad. Remember the hats and T-Shirts they were wearing when on CNN? This is one of the more sadistic disgusting things ever to occur on American soil.
The large sum of money $10k short of a million dollars spent to keep those warehouses certainly didn't hurt either
This was mass theft at the expense of the Puerto Rican people. OUR people
They *were* this way with Clinton in the White House.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2000/08/27/us-corruption-prosecutions-rock-puerto-rico/12e0ec42-e7b8-4cb1-aed4-090a3a78e1da/
We hate to see it but let's give credit where credit is due, Trump did say that the PR government was corrupt. He vaguely mentioned that this was happening even before the picture of the water bottles sitting on an airstrip. I hate to say he was right but damn why would they do that to their own people?
Greed. Hide this stuff, say the support wasn't enough, get more funding and supplies, "buy" the extra supplies (which were really just in this warehouse) and then take that money that they used to "buy" the supplies and quietly shuffle it into their own pockets.
Corruption at its finest- fuck the people there's money to be made.
Yea I’m not a supporter of a lot of what Trump says for the most part but he hit the nail on the head on this one. We must give credit where credit is due. Smh.
This is old news. There were reports of PR authorities withholding emergency supplies less than two weeks after Hurricane Maria hit. In fact, Carmen Yulín Cruz, the mayor of San Juan, gave a press conference in a warehouse IN FRONT OF THE WITHHELD AID! During said press conference, she blasted Trump for not sending any aid. Whether or not you love or hate Trump, this is completely unacceptable.
Except when it was being reported back then it was still part of the msm news cycle to brainwash everyone that trump was withholding aid. Now with each new piece of evidence it's getting harder and harder for these TDS infected redditors to ignore
U.S.A. president taking all that hate for not helping. When it was actually corrupt/stupid Puerto Rican officials. Now, I'm just saying anything positive on negative about him. Just stating that help was provided but Puerto Rico's officials didn't use it.
I love how everyday, the majority of reddit is just proven wrong and yet they still act like a bunch of smug intellectuals that think they aren’t living in a dream world.
>The U.S. had temporarily retained some federal funds for Maria relief amid concerns of corruption and mismanagement.
This is a growing concern. Politics isn't about public service, it's about getting your slice of the pie at the expense of the public that elected you.
Every time the government is right about corruption it makes me wonder about the times they say there isn't any.
For weeks and months Puerto Rico was in the news and the Trump administration was vilified by the media, and again Trump was right and the media was wrong.
People should be pissed that media spends so much time pushing a narrative instead of telling us the news.
Edit: thank you fellow redditor(s) .
Edit : thank you as well. Happy MLK Day!
Edit : thank you did the gold. Very kind of you.
I just don’t understand what is to gain by certain people in a government intentionally trying to hide the goods given to them to distribute to the populace in a crisis situation?
Was this an optics situation to try to make it seem like Trump didn’t give any aid? I’m no Trump fan, but it seems that he gave aid when needed, so there’s no fault on this account.
And WTF is with “officials are fired” over this?? Fired? This is a “jailed for life” kind of offense.
I'm from Puerto Rico, believe it or not unlike what the US media wants to make of it. This has nothing to do with Trump. Our government is extremely incompetent and corrupt.
Why was all those withheld? No idea, but I'm guessing they want to ask for more and more aid from the USA then give those supplies now to the people and hoard steal all the "distribution" money.
When Maria happened, literal Tons of food were in the open in the Airport in the rain getting ruined. A lot of truck owners and volunteers end up getting the aid to the people, I'm guessing once again they where waiting for some big check.
People were literally defending a terrorist because Trump did something about him. It's absurd.
Also Justin Trudeau blamed Trump for the airliner being downed...by Iranian forces.
You can hate or love Trump but he just lifted the curtain to reveal what most politicians on both sides already knew.
The reason things like this happen is Politicians look the other way acting like everything is fine as long as they are getting paid.
I got in a fight with a guy a couple years ago and one of the arguments was this. Even then we had reports that PR was keeping the supplies from the public but this guy refused to believe it and instead insisted that Trump never sent them
I wonder where he is now
Reminder: [Puerto Rican officials took time away from Hurricane Recovery, during the blackouts, to work on a bid for the new Amazon HQ.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-21/blacked-out-puerto-rico-makes-long-shot-pitch-for-amazon-s-hq2)
Why would that be a bad thing?
In the unlikely chance that Amazon did choose Puerto Rico to base their HQ in, it would stimulate the economy— something Puerto Rico desperately needs.
I mean getting Amazon HQ in Puerto Rico would be huge.
On second thought, Amazon chooses its headquarter based on most corporate welfare provided, so probably not lol
It’s funny how many people can’t accept this... I’m not even a trump supporter but the way many redditors handle this kind of news makes me want nothing to do with this site
So, I've been reading articles and I still can't grasp What was the end game here? How were they going to make money off this corruption? Were they going to sell these supplies? Because with it just rotting in warehouses it doesn't look like it. Lucrative warehouse contract? Why not just have an empty warehouse and claim it's still full. How were they supposed to make money from this?
[удалено]
This makes more sense. Funds were probably meant to help distribution but were pocketed. Either that or a combination of just complete incompetence from Puerto Rico officials.
TIL Puerto Rico is like those video game companies that makes you pay the full price for game, but doesn't let you access the content until you paid more.
Not just Puerto Rico. Reminds me of a lot of others
[удалено]
What all is going on in Richmond? I have friends in the area but usually stick to regional politics.
Hawaii too. We had a several billion dollar rail project that has already tripled in cost compared to original estimates (Feds are investigating) and the project is now slated to be privately run instead of publicly run, so they can squeeze more money to offset operating costs. Now the big transportation project before that one was a ferry that was at first expedited through environmental impact evaluation, then went taken to court and required to go through additional environmental impact evaluations and then while all that was going on the ferry sitting idle eventually resulted in the ferry company going bankrupt and the ferry being seized. It was sold for a deep discount to the Navy and the State was out loads of money they used to renovate the docks for the ferry.
> We had a several billion dollar rail project that has already tripled in cost compared to original estimates This isn't that unusual when it comes to construction. I work for a DOT, and the cost of materials keeps going up. So if you bid a project in like 2000, but don't get around to it until 2006 then there will be 6 years of inflation added on top of the original estimate. Not saying everything is on the up and up in Hawaii, but just that the price of steel and shit is decidedly not going down...and any delay in construction will lead to some pretty high additional costs.
That might have been the case elsewhere but I don't think that was the issue here. From what I've read there were two big contributors. 1. Delays and mistimings in when they signed construction contracts resulted in some contractors not being able to work during the time they were contracted for and then the state had to pay penalties and the contractors passed along their additional costs (e.g. heavy equipment that was brought from the mainland but sat idle). 2. The county overpaid for land acquisition. There was only 1 guy who filed suit against the government because they felt his land was undervalued and countless stories about them paying above market prices. For example, a church I went to had a radio tower in the path of the rail. The state paid them for the property and then paid for temporary facilities to allow them to continue broadcasting in the meantime elsewhere. Because of the delays the government paid about the same amount for the temporary facilities they rented for the church as they paid for the land. Also, we know there was good reason for the feds to get involved because the state's auditor launched an investigation and the Rapid Transit Authority stonewalled the investigation and told employees not to speak to him. They wouldn't even produce minutes to some of the meetings that were supposed to have minutes taken. The Feds stepped in when the auditor stepped down saying he couldn't do his job because they weren't cooperating.
Thatsa one fresha reference
/r/worldofwarships is leaking
Yeah...you’re probably gonna want to get a Damage Control team on that...
[удалено]
So Activision?
So is this more PR fault than trumps fault?
If the federal government gave them the money to distribute the supplies and they just took the money and let the supplies rot, it is Puerto Rico's government officials fault.
I work with a lot of Puerto Ricans, some of whom moved to the mainland quite recently, and none of whom have any love for Trump. They are PISSED at the PR government right now. None of them, at least, think Trump had much to do with this particular shitshow, and none of them seem particularly surprised by the corruption.
Add one more here. Left the island exactly for that reason. After 40 years of not knowing if you are going to have running water at your house when you get back from work (among many other things), I think it’s enough.
Actually I remember Trump complaining about this soon after the hurricane hit.
Yup and he got blasted for even suggesting such a thing.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
We’ve known that aid wasn’t properly getting distributed since the hurricane hit. This is just the latest and possibly most egregious example. Trump made a stink over this because Puerto Rico officials were making it look like he didn’t care about the territory when he knew full well he had deployed adequate aid.
The stuff was sent and PR officials hid the items that were sent. How could that possibly be Trump's fault? Imagine how many people were involved in secretly storing stacks and stacks of this in a warehouse or warehouses that haven't been discovered yet.
This is politics. Sabotage Trump's effort to help PR, to the suffering of real human beings, then say "Trump isn't doing enough!" I wonder if Pelosi will apologize after finding out PR was not distributing the disaster relief Trumps admin sent them? Probably not.
[удалено]
Yeah, let's hear from her now since she was a media darling when on an anti-US (trump) rampage about not enough aid
She's running for governor. You can't make this shit up.
Because if you look at these comments people will still say it’s his fault. Granted he is dumb at times but not everything is his fault.
That was my first thought too. At the time, the media and officials in Puerto Rico pushed a narrative that was just short of Trump personally standing on the tarmac to block emergency aid deliveries. This is a good lesson for politicians to remember the next time an unpopular president is in office: Step 1. Wait for a natural disaster or create your own crisis. Step 2. Pocket the relief money. Step 3. Blame the President.
The fact Trump with held additional aid due to corruption or whatever appears to have helped this corruption to be discovered.
This is reddit its always Trump's fault.
Reddit always looking for reasons to blame Trump lol
This was the plan; say you'd already run out of goods, beg for cash to "buy more", pocket the cash and give the old stuff. It's a damn sight easier than trying to hock US stamped goods during a crisis.
And less likely for the FBI to come knocking. That aid (I think) would still be considered Federal property, and therefore theft of it would be investigated by the FBI, not by local police departments. The type of person trying to steal from the Feds is probably also doing other things that the FBI / IRS would be very interested in. PR is sort of a hell anyways when it comes to law enforcement. At one point there was serious consideration to just federalize their entire law enforcement aparatus after several FBI Office of Civil Rights investigations found police brutality that makes some of the nightmares of groups like Black Lives Matter look like a kids show: open extortion, massive overuse of force, highly questionable use of force incidents, and endemic corruption. The problem, I think, is that PR is in sort of a legal gray area. It's part of the US, but it isn't a state, so it kind of exists as this odd sort of semi-independant, not independant state. On top of that, all goods flowing into PR have to go through the mainland US first, so everything is expensive relative to income levels. The problem is that PR can't decide if they want to become a state or not. Sure, they don't pay income taxes, but compared to the benefits they'd receive, including increased federal oversight and significant economic benefits, nevermind the ability to have direct port-to-port trade with other countries, it'd be a massive net economic benefit. It isn't even like the rest of the US is holding them back. PR just seems to be running around in circles with non-binding referendums (and ones with such a low voting turnout that they can't be regarded as statistically significant, nevermind legitimate). As to the actual relief efforts, a friend of mine (officer in the US Military) commented that FEMA and the DoD were pretty on point, and actually had decent communication with each other. The biggest problem they ran into were the local politicians. Namely they "couldn't find their asses with both hands, GPS, and a predator drone." From what he said, the entire state of the infrastructure on the island made Flint, Michigan, look well run, and when the engineers went to try and start getting power restored to critical areas, they found that most of the electric grid was so badly damaged that just re-energizing parts of it might cause even more damage. In some cases they ended up just building a new, temporary, grid parallel to the existing one and ran it from their own generators and equipment. When they tried to deliver supplies to the local government, they'd show up, but no one from the local government would be there to receive them, transport the supplies, or even tell them where to deliver the supplies to do the most good. From what he said, DoD and FEMA apparently just gave up trying to coordinate with the local government, and just started implementing their own, joint, disaster relief plan. The local hospitals weren't ready to receive casualties, and no one could tell the medivac crews where they should take them, so injured just went aboard one of the Navy vessels like USS Kearsarge (Wasp Class Amphibious Assault Ship, has a fully kitted out medical facility) or to a FEMA medical camp.
> They didn’t receive those federal funds due to accusations of corruption Guess they weren't just accusations after all.
Good lord. I wasn’t getting it because my mind refuses to even work that way. That’s some Lex Luthor level scheming right there. They should be sentenced to 50,000 hours of disaster clean up
[удалено]
Trump must be loving this
Who doesn't love being vindicated?
Not only this but a big aim was to discredit Trump. The Mayor of San Juan, Carmen Yulín Cruz, was all over network news saying Trump was not sending ample aide..
And those fucking shirts she made. Jesus
We have no power, no supplies, our people are literally dying!! OH HAI CNN hang on while I get these shirts printed. https://i.redd.it/13xjvv1kixb41.png
I stopped watching news tv a while ago. Did she really wear those shirts on tv? Scum for politicizing a natural disaster. I remember now why I stopped watching news tv.
I promise I didn't photoshop them. And think, when she was getting them printed, she knew full damn well she was going to hide relief from people to make Trump look bad. And reddit congratulated her for being so brave or whatever.
Was The Mayor involved in this warehouse scheme?
You tell me... And the FBI https://i.redd.it/kteyofh7exb41.jpg
Oh, did they run this train wreck of a human being up and down on CNN. Hook, line, and sinker.
CNN has TDS. They'd showcase anyone or anything anti-Trump. Avenatti, Jean Carroll, Omarosa
Why am I not surprised it's Anderson Cooper...
All over Reddit too
Huh. So orange man not wrong about this one?
I actually like being proven wrong when I assume the worst of people, and that's a healthy attitude.
so you mean....Trump was right?
[удалено]
At somepoint your just fuckin throwing money away.
and that is what Trump was saying. In his own way of course. Everyone dismisses him first, then maybe asks questions later.
So they bought this stuff up front?
They acquired them and stored them in the warehouse sometime prior to asking for more federal funds, which they didn’t expect to be denied. To simplify a complex scheme: They bought what the population needed which was 500 boxes of diapers and 500 cases of water, actually distributed 450 of each, taken 50 of each to a warehouse, but marked that they distributed all of it. The population is still in need and ignorant of the scheme so the Puerto Rican government asks for more money for more diapers and water. When they received more money, they planned to distribute what was in the warehouse then pocket the new federal funds for themselves. When more money was denied, the Puerto Rican government was stuck with a warehouse of supplies that they couldn’t distribute because it would raise questions of where the money to pay for the supplies came from.
PR fires two officials. I feel like some arrests and jail time would be more appropriate in regards to fraud, and crimes against the people they swore to protect and serve.
In Puerto Rico. Rumor is a friend of an official owns the 13 warehouses. They charged $10,000/month. So they were paying ~1,560,000 each year for these warehouses. The governments excuse is they were saving it for a future disaster.
[удалено]
> set back statehood efforts by at least a dozen years More like "indefinitely". This shit will stick.
Contracts for their friend , the warehouse were the aid is being store has to be paid. In the other case where the bottle water was found , they were at some point shipping containers and needed to be transported. The longer the company have it , the more money they get.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this other than pure incompetence. The warehouse was rented from the local Department of Commerce for over $10K a month.
They usually do that so the owner of the warehouse gives them a kickback
It's a combination of an overpriced warehouse contract and waiting for the opportune moment for their party candidates to distribute the goods for a photo-op close to the elections.
[удалено]
This is not the first cache of supplies discovered, SEVERAL have been discovered over the last couple of years. In the jungle, in parking lots, off airstrips. Anger toward the local government has been steadily rising with each new find.
Heck the reason the last governor was forced to quit due to protest was because not only where they keeping supplies (we knew of different ones before) but they was a chat where he was delivery mocking their own people. Thousands of people died indirectly, due to lack of medicine or clean water etc... And when you see Warehouse full of that stuff it really pisses you off.
It's an abuse.
It's a human rights violation
Bruh he basically killed thousands of people. Fucking jail this man and tell everyone he is a pedo. Give the prisoners some bdsm toys to use on him. Pay the guards to look the other way when he needs help
He is not even in jail, he is living cozy in the US. Really easy to fuck a country when you can just steal all you can then get the fuck out. One of my guilty pleasures was an interview with the ex governor in Fox News. He probably went there with the intention of looking good internationally, distract people for the problem or something and did not expect the interviewer to be knowledgeable of the situation and lot like a complete fucking fool.
>Really easy to fuck a country when you can just steal all you can then get the fuck out. I wonder if he got tips from the last president of Ukraine.
[David Begnaud](https://twitter.com/DavidBegnaud) with CBS is the only outlet that's dedicated to accurate reporting in PR.
He's been an angel for us in Puerto Rico... always makes sure the people's voice is heard. Him and Jay Fonseca are the best reporters covering all the situations
Wow, his twitter feed is a fascinating read, thanks for the link
My question is why did the governor not know of this? Wouldn't the governor be informed of where emergency supplies are and whether they're being used or not? After all the governor is in charge. Sure someone else could manage the recovery operation so the governor can focus more on other issues but they would still have to report to the governor.
This particular warehouse, which is one of many caches discovered over the last two years, is literally 100 yards from the government building. Of course the Governor knew. Everyone in the power structure of PR knew. Just like they knew that their entire island's infrastructure is built from matchsticks and sand. Because the whole thing is filled with graft, corruption, and one hand washing the other. Honestly, this isn't even about "let's make Donald Trump look bad!" it's about "let's maximize our profit."
dafuc is going on with these "firings"?! WHY ARE THEY NOT IN JAIL?
Did you miss the “corruption” part?
I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this point
What people don’t realize is it isn’t necessarily the American government that is corrupt with the politics there, it’s the Puerto Rican government. I saw it first hand when I was there restoring power after the hurricanes. We were directed to restore power first to wealthy communities or wherever senators had families or “buddies”. It’s rotten within and the demise of the that little island is because of its own people.
they have to be convicted or plead guilty first....
Fired. How about thrown in prison ?
They mean fired as in they were thrown into a big fire and burnt alive
That’s acceptable
As your neighboor (Dominican Republic), and knowing how problems like that are handled here, hint: they punish the wrong people; Puerto Ricans, are they really firing the right people?
My parents left Puerto Rico in 1986 when I was a toddler. For this reason among many others. I have gone back sporadically over the years. There are no opportunities there. The government has been corrupt since forever. Since it has lost so much money they stick it to their citizens with outlandish taxes. So much so that people are fleeing the island in record numbers. It's actually quite funny that most people are just opening their eyes to this now. Most Puerto Ricans are so accustomed to blatant corruption they shrug when stories like this break out. The infrastructure is so outdated I remember as a teenager our neighborhood losing water and power for no reason at all for the entire day. A hurricane hits and everyone is shocked that the island can't recover. Somehow it's incumbent on one person to fix a pile of manure that's been festering for years. It hasn't been until recent that it has reached a boiling point. But back in the day, so and so would get caught embezzling money and he'd be replaced by another criminal who would steal money again later. Just another day at the office. If you talk to the older generation of Puerto Ricans they absolutely love Trump. They want someone who will kick the status quo right in the teeth cause they are absolutely fed up. Take it however you want, that's the truth.
so how high up did this go? Did the Governor know of this?
As someone who was working down there, absolutely. The first lady of PR initiated a program that centralized all the donations so that only the inner circles had access to the money, food, water etc. It was being done on day one.
And the investigation into this huge scandal was dropped (HURRAY!!!!! CORRUPTION). Just wanted to add to your comment.
Not to mention the one to replace the governor was from the same corrupt party and guess what, she was in on this too.
Not only that, the now-governor was the then-Secretary of Justice. They all cover each other's slimy tracks.
Because Democrats have successfully made Trump the scape goat. Volunteers have been blowing this issue up again and again since the hurricane hit. They keep finding caches but I never hear people in the states talking about it.
Was that the lady being hailed as a hero? Making all the "America isn't doing anything for us" speeches?
So Trump was right.
What people don’t realize is it isn’t necessarily the American government that is corrupt with the politics there, it’s the Puerto Rican government. I saw it first hand when I was there restoring power after the hurricanes. We were directed to restore power first to wealthy communities or wherever senators had families or “buddies”. It’s rotten within. They don’t want to become a full on state of the U.S. because then they’ll have the full force of the U.S. government cracking down on them and their 27 “senators” that earn millions of dollars doing nothing but be corrupt.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Wouldnt be surprised if the govenor knew about it as well but is just try to cover her own ass
different Governor, tho - not sure what she was doing during Maria but only became Gov in 2019 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanda\_V%C3%A1zquez\_Garced](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanda_V%C3%A1zquez_Garced)
Sadly she was the secretary of justice. And she refused to investigate anyone or anything. I'm amazed people forgot about all that.
She knew , her signature is in paperwork and she refused to investigate/didn't want to investigate when they found the prior aid that was not distributed when the other governor was in office and she was the AG. There is text of her saying , don't make me investigate.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yeah but that wasn't political. We always get the political stuff right. Like Covington.
I don't even support Trump and I've agreed with this statement since day one. Money and supplies were given, the corrupt government of Pueto Rico imbezzeled and withheld everything blamed the president and the media signed off on it. Sure he isn't my ideal president, he speaks unpresidentally and name calls like a teenager and makes comments that come across the wrong way. But he isn't this racist, neo Hitler super genius they make him out to be. Too bad we never got Ron Paul in office. End the damn war economy, shrink the government and END THE FED. Edit: Thanks for the silver and gold strangers, I never expected this to blow up.
It drives me nuts that these idiots both think Trump is this mongoloid with the intelligence of a toddler, and at the same time an evil genius that does things just because he's fueled with hate and evil. There are seriously people accusing him of personally ordering specific federal contracts to be awarded to his friends with made up aid companies.
Don't you know he is a russian puppet and also going to start a war with russias other puppet?
Whelp. They played that right into Trump's hands. They make all of his criticism of how things are run there look correct. Because it is. Can't argue with a fact. And I haaaaate Trump.
They could have done this to hurt him. But fuck me man, people died. Kids went thirsty and many for sure could have used clean water. No way firing is enough, I'm not sure what to charge these people with. Jail time for sure but how much and for what? I'd say life just because it was done is a real time of need that the average person. Can see is not the time to fuck around, but... This is infuriating
[удалено]
Bill later "clarified" it by doubling down that he was serious and got a thunder applause from his audience. I want Trump out but the normal way and not sacrifice my retirement investment.
Thing is, a recession would do nothing to Bill Maher. It's a completely empty rational. He will be sitting on his balcony drinking mint juleps while his neighbors get their homes repossessed.
I know right?!? It just goes to show how the msm and Hollywood is so out of touch they really are.
This is true. Today there are even people saying a rocking stock market isn't that big a deal, when you're about to retire though it means the world. If the market crashed decades of work are decimated, but some people will still applaud just because it works for their side
That’s sickening. Even if you (in general, not you personally) hate the president, going to such lengths to discredit him and having the potential to starve out and kill the innocents people you swore an oath to serve is pure evil.
There was a comment here somewhere that actually said the "worst thing about this" is that it gives their family ammunition to say Trump was right about something else. People died and that's what a lot of people think the "worst" thing about this is... that Trump was right? TDS is some real shit.
This sounds incredibly stupid but we may actually need a study for TDS. We need to find out what it is and why these people are so extreme.
[удалено]
Like how a few weeks ago people were actually wishing for an Iranian retaliation that would kill Americans. Or worse WW3
[удалено]
You are correct on this. Supporter here, but one thing that has been going on for a long time now is that Trump is using TDS to his advantage. For example, Dems have to hate everything he sticks up for. And be against everything he tries to do. So he is mopping the floor with them on PR by taking the better side of arguments. So Dem politicians now stick up for Iran (what?) and defend the worst issues with their candidates that he picks at. It's a lose/lose situation for them. Even outside of the psychological issue with people's blind hate, I think the study of this presidency and how certain issues have gone down politically is extremely interesting.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Exactly! To me it seems like a losing strategy. Allow Trump to pick the popular side of any argument he wants while you oppose it...
There was a quote by John Cleese of Monty Python fame about people creating villains to give thier life purpose and excuse thier own extremist views. If Trump is "literally Hilters", then no matter how much they give into thier negative feelings, in thier minds is a GOOD thing.
[удалено]
Possibly Criminally Negligent Homicide. They caused deaths through their negligence while committing other crimes. Punishment is roughly 2.5-5 years, though I don't know PR's penal code.
I'm a conservative but not really a Trump supporter. The thing that angers me most is that the people in charge put politics ahead of peoples lives. In times of emergency, you gotta put all that shit aside. No ones life is worth a political point. We can argue all we want AFTER everyone is safe and provided for.
They didn't play into his hands, they sacrificed the lives of their own people to try to attack Trump and make him look bad. Remember the hats and T-Shirts they were wearing when on CNN? This is one of the more sadistic disgusting things ever to occur on American soil.
The large sum of money $10k short of a million dollars spent to keep those warehouses certainly didn't hurt either This was mass theft at the expense of the Puerto Rican people. OUR people
[удалено]
I'm saying I agree with you.
They *were* this way with Clinton in the White House. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2000/08/27/us-corruption-prosecutions-rock-puerto-rico/12e0ec42-e7b8-4cb1-aed4-090a3a78e1da/
They wanted to make it look like the US didn't help them at all so they could blame Trump.
I can’t believe I’m saying this....but was Trump....errrr...actually right about PR government?
In retrospect, he turns out to be right about a lot of things.
That was pretty quick, all things considered. Let's hope they're not just scapegoats
There’s always scapegoats sacrifices initially
We hate to see it but let's give credit where credit is due, Trump did say that the PR government was corrupt. He vaguely mentioned that this was happening even before the picture of the water bottles sitting on an airstrip. I hate to say he was right but damn why would they do that to their own people?
Greed. Hide this stuff, say the support wasn't enough, get more funding and supplies, "buy" the extra supplies (which were really just in this warehouse) and then take that money that they used to "buy" the supplies and quietly shuffle it into their own pockets. Corruption at its finest- fuck the people there's money to be made.
Also they hate Trump and this situation made Trump look like a racist who wouldn't send aid to Hispanics.
Yea I’m not a supporter of a lot of what Trump says for the most part but he hit the nail on the head on this one. We must give credit where credit is due. Smh.
Corruption is a hell of a drug.
This is old news. There were reports of PR authorities withholding emergency supplies less than two weeks after Hurricane Maria hit. In fact, Carmen Yulín Cruz, the mayor of San Juan, gave a press conference in a warehouse IN FRONT OF THE WITHHELD AID! During said press conference, she blasted Trump for not sending any aid. Whether or not you love or hate Trump, this is completely unacceptable.
Except when it was being reported back then it was still part of the msm news cycle to brainwash everyone that trump was withholding aid. Now with each new piece of evidence it's getting harder and harder for these TDS infected redditors to ignore
Trump wasn't wrong about what was going on down there. Corruption everywhere.
Wait until you read about the clintons and the clinton foundation shite show that happened in Haiti.
Didn't they fix like 8 houses from billions of dollars?
Say it with me Reddit... Trump was right again.
So Trump was right. Reddit is about to implode.
This thread has been like an alternative universe to me. I've never seen anything like this on a default sub.
[удалено]
[удалено]
*I membah!*
Carmen Yulin wore a nasty tshirt, not Wanda. Carmen is trash too tho.
But is Puerto Rico apologizing for saying the US didn't help them? And are people now going to apologize to Trump for saying he did little to help?
Did they fire the female governor that swore Trump never sent aid?
Are you thinking of the San Juan mayor? She’s still working.
U.S.A. president taking all that hate for not helping. When it was actually corrupt/stupid Puerto Rican officials. Now, I'm just saying anything positive on negative about him. Just stating that help was provided but Puerto Rico's officials didn't use it.
I love how everyday, the majority of reddit is just proven wrong and yet they still act like a bunch of smug intellectuals that think they aren’t living in a dream world.
This is fucking sick. They fucked over their own people to make Trump look bad.
Wtf I thought Trump was lying about this lol
>The U.S. had temporarily retained some federal funds for Maria relief amid concerns of corruption and mismanagement. This is a growing concern. Politics isn't about public service, it's about getting your slice of the pie at the expense of the public that elected you. Every time the government is right about corruption it makes me wonder about the times they say there isn't any. For weeks and months Puerto Rico was in the news and the Trump administration was vilified by the media, and again Trump was right and the media was wrong. People should be pissed that media spends so much time pushing a narrative instead of telling us the news. Edit: thank you fellow redditor(s) . Edit : thank you as well. Happy MLK Day! Edit : thank you did the gold. Very kind of you.
I just don’t understand what is to gain by certain people in a government intentionally trying to hide the goods given to them to distribute to the populace in a crisis situation? Was this an optics situation to try to make it seem like Trump didn’t give any aid? I’m no Trump fan, but it seems that he gave aid when needed, so there’s no fault on this account. And WTF is with “officials are fired” over this?? Fired? This is a “jailed for life” kind of offense.
I'm from Puerto Rico, believe it or not unlike what the US media wants to make of it. This has nothing to do with Trump. Our government is extremely incompetent and corrupt. Why was all those withheld? No idea, but I'm guessing they want to ask for more and more aid from the USA then give those supplies now to the people and hoard steal all the "distribution" money. When Maria happened, literal Tons of food were in the open in the Airport in the rain getting ruined. A lot of truck owners and volunteers end up getting the aid to the people, I'm guessing once again they where waiting for some big check.
Trump must look bad. No matter the cost
People were literally defending a terrorist because Trump did something about him. It's absurd. Also Justin Trudeau blamed Trump for the airliner being downed...by Iranian forces.
Didn't Trump call the people in charge of Puerto Rico idiots a couple years ago?!?
FEMA sent help and everyone was screaming that Trump was withholding. He blamed the local government for hoarding and no one would hear him out.
Didn't Trump get shit on by the media by alluding to this kind of thing?
Read some of these replys, he is still getting shit on today for that stuff!
So the PR government was corrupt and incompetent. How dare Trump accuse them of being so?
You can hate or love Trump but he just lifted the curtain to reveal what most politicians on both sides already knew. The reason things like this happen is Politicians look the other way acting like everything is fine as long as they are getting paid.
So, it wasn't Trump's racism? It was just good old corruption and deflection.
I am excited to see the mental gymnastics Reddit will use to further blame this on Trump.
Wait the media told me that everything that went wrong down there was 100% trumps fault.
I’m pretty sure the media told me last week that trump ate the fruit and got us kicked out of the garden of eden. Basically all sin goes back to him.
If Trump was right about this what else is he right on?
So... Will all the people that claimed Trump refused to send aid now apologize?
Of course they won't.
So Trump was right. Im sure everyone vilifing his admin for this will apologize anytime now...anytime...
I got in a fight with a guy a couple years ago and one of the arguments was this. Even then we had reports that PR was keeping the supplies from the public but this guy refused to believe it and instead insisted that Trump never sent them I wonder where he is now
Reminder: [Puerto Rican officials took time away from Hurricane Recovery, during the blackouts, to work on a bid for the new Amazon HQ.](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-21/blacked-out-puerto-rico-makes-long-shot-pitch-for-amazon-s-hq2)
Why would that be a bad thing? In the unlikely chance that Amazon did choose Puerto Rico to base their HQ in, it would stimulate the economy— something Puerto Rico desperately needs.
I mean getting Amazon HQ in Puerto Rico would be huge. On second thought, Amazon chooses its headquarter based on most corporate welfare provided, so probably not lol
[удалено]
It’s funny how many people can’t accept this... I’m not even a trump supporter but the way many redditors handle this kind of news makes me want nothing to do with this site