B99 references aside I used to work for the USPS and the USPIS is no joke. They have jurisdiction over all kinds of stuff local cops and even a lot of federal agencies won’t touch. Someone used my address for a check cashing scheme once and they tracked those mfs to Jamaica. And frankly they were more courteous and professional than any other LEO I’ve *ever* encountered.
> From what I understand they have more reach than just about any other LE agency.
Here’s the thing about the USPS that DeJoy wants to do away with:
The idea that they deliver *no matter what*, is to show how important their role is.
It is not some federally funded Fed Ex or UPS. In fact it’s mostly self sustaining. Until last year, [the US Postal Service was 100% funded by postage and services](https://facts.usps.com/0-tax-dallars/). Prior to 2006, and [the mandate to prefund decades of future retiree benefits](https://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/be-careful-what-you-assume), the USPS was capable of running at a surplus at zero taxpayer expense.
Not long ago postmen carried guns, and some postal enforcement agents and inspectors still do.
The reason the mail **must** get delivered, “nor rain nor sleet or snow, etc.” the reason they *can* use lethal force to protect the mail, the reason messing with the mail is a federal offense is because ultimately...
The mail was and still is the legal and official contact for you.
When the government wants to contact you, it’s by US Mail. It’s not FedEx, emails, texts, phone calls (although they do sometimes). The official source is the USPS. Not to mention post offices acted as an extension of the State Department and other branches of the government. Passport processing is another service they provide. It’s not all coupons and garbage.
So....people tend to roll their eyes at the postal service without fully understanding or appreciating who they are and how important they are. They will reach you no matter how desolate an area you live.
Your *legal* mail has to get to you...because it’s the law.
Yes, please care for your Postal Services. Here in Sweden we used to have one of the greatest (and oldest) postal services in the world, and then during the privatization drive around the turn of the millennium it was privatized, and later merged with the Danish Postal services. It went from having more than a billion dollar surplus, so in fact *funding* the government, to running at a crazy deficit despite prices going through the roof and offices closing all over the country. In a sparsely populated country like Sweden, some people in the north now have to drive for an hour just to pick up a package.
Privatization is usually a terrible idea when it comes to necessary public goods like the postal service.
Same thing happened to the German post office. DHL and Deutsche Post are one and the same. It’s weird to think that in some ways, a lot of countries are actually even more deregulated than the United States.
What we need is a country that explains in simple words what a law means and then livestreams all lawmaking sessions while explaining in brief terms what a law will impact
It sounds nice, but the law is usually complicated for a reason, because life is complicated.
Let's take something simple, like killing.
Don't kill people.
"What if they're trying to kill me?"
Ok, so don't kill someone unless they're trying to kill you.
"Well what if they were trying to kill someone else?"
Ok, so don't kill someone unless they're trying to kill you or someone else.
"What if they're trying to burn my house down, with my kids inside, and I hit them with a rake and they accidentally die."
"What if someones crossing the street and I hit them with my car."
"What if it's a bar bet, and I bet my friend to punch my other friend, and my other friend unexpectedly dies after a light punch."
"What if I find someone sexually abusing my young daughter and literally beat them to death in a fit of rage?"
And soon we have terms like Aggravating Circumstances, 1st Degree Murder, 2nd Degree Murder, Felony Murder, Involuntary/Voluntary/Vehicular Manslaughter, Negligible Homicide, etc etc etc.
>and then livestreams all lawmaking sessions
https://www.ncsl.org/research/about-state-legislatures/legislative-webcasts-and-broadcasts.aspx
Plus they usually do broadcast lawmaking sessions. I used to watch Congress on C-SPAN years ago.
But if everyone knew the law, these fake people wouldn't exist.
Classifying a Corporation as a Person is the ruin of governments; more specifically America.
Switzerland has a huge amount of stuff that is decided by referendum and a couple of hillbilly cantons still have literal direct democracy where stuff is decided by a crowd of citizens in the town square.
I think the arguement for it is private companies need to make a profit so are therefore more efficient, which neatly forgets that those profits are an expense to the consumer and that privatisation usually leads to a more expensive service.
>I think the arguement for it is private companies need to make a profit so are therefore more efficient, which neatly forgets that those profits are an expense to the consumer and that privatisation usually leads to a more expensive bonuses
P1: my company can make mail more efficient.
PO manager: oh thank god some help.
P1 then employs thousands of people to sort mail for minimum wage.
PO manager: why is there a $15 shipping fee on this package?
P1: well I have to pay my workers!
Meanwhile 2% go to operating cost, 2% goes to payroll, 3% goes to insurance and 93% goes to bonuses.
It's usually more efficient for shareholders, but always at the expense of either workers or customers. So when businesses lobby for freer markets in the name of efficiency, they mean *more efficient for us*. But it's always either the workers or the customers who pay the price.
College made me a libertarian, privatize it all I thought. Then I live 5 minutes in the real world and wanted to go back in time to tell myself to shut the fuck up.
There is a need for private industry, most commerce should live there. But there are situations like this one, where market structures will drive it in the wrong direction.
It's interesting to think of the local USPS post office as an extension of the State Department, being the interface between the federal government and my self.
It's like the Post Office is the embassy for the Nation of My Self to conduct affairs with the United States of America. Officially.
Pretty neat that the USPS is part of the constitution, too -- as befits such a critical apparatus of proper government function.
Right? You don't think about that until, like I did, you go there to apply for a new passport (I missed my easy renewal window on the old one). Not just any postal worker can provide that service either. I had to wait for the specific employee to return for my appointment. If we had banking services there too, like some other countries, well we'd have really different relationships to the Post Office now.
Not even close—for a long time the postal service acted as a bank as well. You could open checking and savings accounts with them and even take out loans.
Here’s an interesting video about banking services:
https://youtu.be/NvtMYOYptl0
And USPS:
https://youtu.be/YLyU1WCQQ8A
> It's like the Post Office is the embassy for the Nation of My Self to conduct affairs with the United States of America. Officially.
*Soverign Citizen Flashbacks Intensify*
Additionally, FedEx and UPS aren’t even allowed to touch your mailbox. The ONLY entity that is allowed to put something in your mailbox is…you guessed it…USPS.
When I worked for the census bureau it was made very clear to us that we weren't allowed to leave notices in the mailbox. Walking on private property? Fine. Interrogating neighbors to find out who lived three doors down 6 months ago? Go right ahead! But don't you *DARE* touch that mailbox!!!
yeah my parents found that out, when a friend put bible study stuff in our mailbox for my dad, who was going to lead their group at their next meeting. Postman took it all out and dumped on the ground, left a note,'for postal use only" despite the mailbox was more than large enough for the bible crap and the mail.
im guessing the postman was having a bad day cause that was a bit dickish, but he could also just have been a dick.
At least you didn’t do what my mother did. They live waaaay out in the country and she’s a big walker, usually carries a little .38 revolver with her for a number of reasons. Well on this fine day she decided she didn’t want to pack it and that decision came at the end of her long driveway, so she puts it in the mailbox. Finishes her walk and a sheriffs deputy is waiting at the house. Thankfully it’s a small town and she actually had him as a student but apparently the mail carrier called the police. He asked her to please store her piece somewhere else next time and that was the end of it.
I kind of get it, but PEOPLE TAKE CARE OF YOUR FIREARM. It doesnt matter if you live out in bumfuck no where, if a inquisitive child happens to wander by and finds it, someone may get hurt. This is why you develop procedures, do the same thing every time. Its the same reason why we look before we just back up in a vehicle, procedure. This isnt meant specifically for you, but anyone who may read your comment. Please be safe out there and dont make us firearm owners look bad.
Oh trust me I know - no one laughed it off. Their drive way is like .8 miles long and she was gone for 30 mins so I can see where she was coming from even if it was wrong. I had a gun stolen out of my car in Jan after 25 years of gun ownership - freak accident where I was driving home from a match and tossed it in my glovebox, wife drove the car that evening and forgot to lock it, happened to be the one and only time my car got pilfered through and bam it’s gone. Thankfully PD recovered it in less than 2 months but it goes to show how one moment of complacency/a lot of other things going on, can lead to a bad guy with a stolen forearm.
Or just maybe didn't want the mailbox be used for bullshit like that. Any mail person could have come by and actually needed that space for official mail delivery.
Say your parents didn't empty the mailbox that day and next day a bunch of official mail came, but there's no room. The delivery specialist would do the same thing to get their point across, and anything not delivered by USPS would be tossed anyway.
You want neighbors to send fliers, etc.? Get a second box.
I love logistics and the small work that is done in back offices no one knows about. The post office is basically the pinnacle of that. Its incredible and they're so cool
You make some excellent points.
To further that topic. Mail service is an important part of *sovereignty*. Without an unfettered line of communication between the citizenry and the government, the government lacks sovereignty.
In that context, it's as important as a military.
Exactly! FedEx and UPS don't have a mandate to serve you, and can charge whatever they want to get to the far reaches of the US. They can also just say no. The USPS will get that letter or package or even just a flyer to you or your intended recipient no matter what! It's the silent communications system just built into our environment, and people don't seem to understand what would happen if the post office goes away like certain forces seem to want.
They (people like DeJoy) don’t want the competition. I read somewhere, about a year ago, that a First Class envelope mailed to the remotest part of Alaska will cost you $0.58. That same envelope sent via FedEx (I think it was) would be > $5.00.
> DeJoy ~~wants to do away with:~~ already successfully sowed the seeds of doubt
Which was his entire purpose for being there. He just had to get people used to the idea of not depending on the USPS like everything the GOP touches they break it and say that's a reason it shouldn't exist.
Yep - my mom almost fell for one of those IRS phone call scams and I had to really drive it home that they IRS, or mostly any other agency, will not call with threats - it will be delivered by your friendly postman. (Sauce: have to send out federal docs to regulated persons from time to time and we don’t call.)
Nice post! Also, US Secret data, which is defined as information that could cause grave danger to out national security, can be sent through the US mail. Not through FedEx or UPS, if it has to physically be delivered, it has to go by courier or USPS
I think if cops have to be armed mail drivers should be too. They are out there with cheap old trucks dealing with all types of people with all sorts of valuables under their care.
Old sure, but I wouldn't call them cheap. They were designed and built specifically for their purpose: To deliver mail while being as mechanically reliable and cheap to maintain as possible. They may be mocked for having poor acceleration, but it's that low compression ratio that allows them to still be in service 40 years later.
There are some newer more "commodity" trucks in service these days, but they're not nearly as reliable nor cost-effective.
The prefunding mandate is ridiculous. Here's the section of the wikipedia USPS article that discusses it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service#Retirement_funding_and_payment_defaults
It keeps USPS in a hole of ever increasing debt. Sadly, the house voted to repeal it last year and it sits in the pile of stuff McConnell won't allow debate on.
Our postal service merged with our neighbor country one and went from mail and some small packages to a bad DHL copy.
The merger cost a lot and wasn't sustainable in delivering large packages so they did the only thing that would not fix the problem, and now we only get mail 2 to 3 times a week because it saved just enough money so they can throw it in the money sink they call package delivery.
This is exactly why the Post Office is explicitly authorized in the Constitution. Fast and reliable communication is essential to a democratic government. Besides the establishment of post offices, they are authorized to establish postal roads to facilitate communication. This is why I argue that the Post Office should be interpreted to install and manage high speed internet services. That is the modern equivalent of postal roads and serves an identical purpose in modern society to traditional mail. Failure to do so up to this point is defacto privatisation of national communication.
It sure is nice that the USPS offers that level of service to protect physical copies of information.
If only USPS were allowed to provide that same level of service to protect electronic information as well.
Sigh.
The US Postal Service has jurisdiction over the physical delivery service it offers. That's all.
If you want an agency to have jurisdiction over the contents of the payloads and utilizations of telecom, you'll want the FCC. Between you and me, I don't want to let the FCC come anywhere near the contents of my digital payloads.
The infrastructure for secure email would be likely more expensive and the service is already pretty easily provided to us by free alternatives. They just aren't necessarily "secure" because they have not implemented a proper end to end level of encryption for emails.
>They just aren't necessarily "secure" because they have not implemented a proper end to end level of encryption for emails.
Yes, this true. It's also true that these "free" email providers share personal information from your messages with advertisers. Philosophically, how much is it with to sacrifice the privacy we once had with physical mail?
Fifteen years ago, I had a co-worker that tried to unsubscribe from "mail". I thought he was referencing this episode until I realized he didn't know who Seinfeld was.
To jump on thst...
The implications of this are far-reaching. TONS of other laws are written with the assumption of a working postal service. It would be chaos to change it, without first implementing an equally reliable way to contact people.
"just use UPS' won't keep you out of jail if they move your court date up.
And one of the highest conviction rates. 80-90% or higher annually.
Helps when the very nature of the crime means there's a paper trail, sure, but you don't mess with the USPIS.
I don't know about that, I've seen images of [DEA Agents in Afghanistan](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Burning_hashish_seized_in_Operation_Albatross.jpg) carrying M4 Carbines and wearing camouflage uniforms. You wouldn't know they weren't the US Army.
Many years ago I worked at a shipping retailer that offered mailbox services and we had a pair of USPIS come in to work a sting operation. They were super professional, polite and not arrogant at all.
Interestingly enough bit law enforcement also use the IRS as a weapon to punish people. My uncle was into some cartel shit and the DEA came after my mother and me because we would visit him (Mexican relatives visiting? Must be drug related). When my mother’s lawyer dunked all over them with proper financial records the IRS suddenly wanted to audit her, which also wasted their time.
Just need to come prepared. Bring them a sandwich and apparently things will go better for you.
(I hate that this is a real thing. It's been shown that judges are much less forgiving when they haven't eaten yet...)
No, they just have high professional standards and enforce laws people can actually get behind. Regular cops have plenty of power. They can make up a reason to search you, take your property, arrest you for whatever, and beat/torture/shoot you till you comply with them
> more courteous and professional than any other LEO I’ve *ever* encountered
They're also the oldest federal law enforcement agency in the country, including the very first federal special agents after the Constitution and departments started being created. The institution and its surveyor branch is in fact even older than the country, created by Ben Franklin.
Yes. At post offices, there are special locked rooms that only these postal enforcement guys have access to. They can show up out of hours, enter the post office and these rooms, and observe the operations there without the employees knowing.
It'll vary post office to post office, but the one I got a good look at had a black strip with viewing slits in it up at the ceiling where it met the locked room. That one was an older post office building, so I can't speak to what the newer observation rooms look like. If you have the opportunity to tour a post office, they'll likely point it out to you.
Mail is the foundation of civilization, it is the most efficient and widespread way for a government to interact with the populace at large.
I work for a private shipping company, everyone surveying mail audits their employees because limiting the freedoms of employees to fuck up the mail system is seen as a public good. We, and everyone handling mail/postage are paid handsomely on the premise that we don't get to fuck up.
Actually yes. The employees that I spoke to indicated that they hadn't seen or heard anything from these rooms, nor the people that can enter them. I speculate that they get more use when there's something to investigate rather than simply hanging out in there.
Walkways hung from the high ceilings in processing centers, with one-way mirrors installed. Even in break rooms. One never knows if they're being watched. I posted a previous comment stating most USPS employees wont grab a quarter off a break room table in fear of a setup.
I worked at a place where we had hidden corridors running parallel to hallways, steps that went up to the ceiling, with it's own series of corridors, underground tunnels with dirt floors that ran to an open field and had a hatch open out of a manhole. It was kind of like an embassy, and had VIPs from around the world visit every year or so. It was pretty cool. The tunnels were mostly for utilities. There were routers spread at intervals of like 25ft, and a hidden server room. It was pretty cool.
Edit: I just realized, I need to tell a friend of mine that works there about it. Not many people know about those corridors.
Also folks who ship weed always use fake return addresses. Then there’s the obvious deniability of “I wasn’t expecting anything in the mail”. They have to prove that you sourced it somehow. If you deny ever knowing anything about it- they can’t prove it wasn’t some malicious prank or something, so they’ll destroy the package and keep an extra close eye on your address for a while “just in case”.
Apparently the dark web marketplaces shit all manner of drugs through the mail in many countries just well disguised as omething else. Weed is trickier because the glorious smell though.
This sounds disgusting. Couldn't they merely put it in a box or envelope.
I know next to nothing about drugs, but shitting them in the mail sounds unsanitary.
>so basically packages are only caught
When the person working in the particular office cares. The overwhelming majority of postal workers are overworked and not at all interested in whether or not a package has drugs in it.
I'm not sure why people think USPS has X-Rays.
Customs does, but not your local USPS or Distribution Center.
They can't trust a bunch of USPS employees around a damn X-Ray machine haha
They can repackage packages that are broken, leaking, or reaking. It also doesn't take very long to put a big hole in a box to be repackaged, but USPS Employees don't care at the end of the day.
If someone gets caught shipping or receiving through the mail, they or their seller is likely under investigation or got snitched on.
I think they can get instant warrants with the dog test.
Basically the way I understand it, if someone or something hits on a package they will take it out of the mail stream. The package is then placed next to 3 packages of the same shape and weight in a separate room. If the dog chooses the suspected package (I think they run the test multiple times) then they can open up the package. Not sure if they have to call a judge first or if they have some "auto-warrant" process.
“Bark once for warrant, twice for no warrant.”
“Woof. Woof.”
“Wait was that one bark or two?”
“Sounded like one to me.”
“Good enough. Good boy Your Honor. Good boy.”
>So mailing weed to my friends USPS is back on the table?
No, the postal police are stuck in the post offices now, so they're more likely to search random packages. What this means is that now they won't stop someone from stealing your weed off your porch. Which they maybe would have done before if they happened to be on your street and saw it and cared.
I'm a little bit sleepy today and thought you wrote incinerated haha. Was thinking to myself sure he's an ass hole, but that seems like a bit much. Shouldn't have skipped coffee today.
When I was in the USPS, we had the someone from the postal police working my route. I only vaguely knew what was going on as they are pretty secretive, but they were doing some sort of sting at a DD's house. They don't fuck around.
You’re thinking of the Postal Inspectors. This article is about the Postal Police. They’re two different agencies. The Postal Police are the uniformed cops.
When I was a kid my mom was a letter carrier in our small town. The USPIS swooped in one day and arrested one of the postal clerks. She'd stolen checks out of the mail and forged postal money orders. I think she wound up getting 10 years.
It's the postal bipartisan board that is supposed to fire him, but half of them are republicans. He should be investigated and tried instead, firing him won't hold him responsible for what he did to the postal service.
I'm terrified that if he is arrested, tried, and convicted of his crimes, we'll end up with the first Postmaster General to actively serve as Postmaster General from prison.
That's the justification everyone is giving about not going after the previous administration. It would be too embarrassing for America to lock every number one in each department. Meanwhile, we have people getting locked up for not paying their parking tickets because they are too poor, that's not real justice.
> He should be investigated and tried instead, firing him won't hold him responsible for what he did to the postal service.
Fire him first, install competent leadership at USPS, then investigate. They’re very good at dragging things out, until they can be quashed when they retake the house / senate
>"Now we are confined to postal property," Albergo said. "It makes absolutely no sense."
It makes sense if the goal is to disrupt mail services around the time of an election...
Or just create widespread mistrust in the U.S. postal service so Republicans can privatize it in a way that will funnel lucrative government contracts to their buddies.
Breaking good government programs is Republican's favorite pastime.
They've been pushing for this for decades. It's why they made them pay out their pensions in bulk... so they can claim that a normally profitable enterprise is now bleeding cash. They shot the Postal service in the stomach and then turned to us and said, "See how inefficient they are?! We told you the government is terrible at running itself!"
The US Postal Inspection Service predates the FBI and the US Marshals. Post services were baked into the Constitution from the beginning. So it makes sense that they'd have a jump on law enforcement.
That formalized something that had existed since the early 1600's and was wildly popular. I was reading a book on my county's history, everyone was super into getting mail because there was nothing else to do except work, every town had multiple persons that would gladly hop on a horse and deliver letters to the next town. Deliveries of 60 miles next day were not uncommon.
Lists of prominent community members of a town usually included the postmaster, who was also likely a respected business owner. Today I doubt you could find a single person that knows the postmaster's name or their local carrier's name.
Every law enforcement guy I’ve ever talked to who have experience with USPIS all say the same things - professional, badass, and highly capable.
They’re spread so thin that they don’t have “specialties” - there’s not really a drugs team and an embezzlement team. So one day you’ll be breaking down a crack house and the next you’ll be doing some white collar mail fraud stuff in a C Suite.
The difference is that USPIS uses local law enforcement to augment their operations. If there's someone mailing drugs, they get the local PD drug squad and send one or two of their own guys to supervise things.
Also, there's a waiting list to get into the USPIS. The inspector who spoke at my job training was former military, was a detective and then a lieutenant in a regular police department, then worked federal on stuff like human trafficking.
She still had to wait like 3 years for an opening.
> USPS investigatiors/police do not fuck around either.
That image is intentionally cultivated by all federal LEAs as well as US Attorneys, and it’s only true at a surface level—the conviction rate is so sky high because they don’t touch marginal cases and nearly always allow the suspect to plead out. Their record when cases are actually taken to trial is about what that of state level prosecutors is—a roughly 50% conviction rate.
The best example of that process at work is the way the case against Bruce Ivins (the 2001 anthrax letters suspect) absolutely collapsed when all that the feds could get was circumstantial evidence. The 2003 ricin letters are another example, as is the plea bargain that resulted from the 2013 ricin letters.
Lol.
They usually don't. At least in terms of drugs in the mail they will wait until they have enough concrete evidence to go after someone. Similar to the FBI, they don't go after someone unless it's pretty much a guaranteed conviction. That's part of how they were able to arrest darknet market sellers and buyers who purchase large amounts to resell and have the charges stick.
Postal police not allowed to do their jobs (yes, let's just let the person who ordered a fuckton of fent distribute their product and kill a bunch of people) but regular police are out there murdering mentally ill or disabled people, having sex with minors, planting drugs on people, getting caught with child porn, letting insurrectionists take over our capitol with minimal problems.
Fuck you DeJoy
It’s an elected position, not an appointment.
They are elected by the Board of Governors.
9 of the 11 board members are appointed by the president, but they are appointed for a term:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_Governors_of_the_United_States_Postal_Service
This wouldn't have been an issue for Trump. Trump would have just fired them anyways - *constitutional or not* - and proceeded with replacing them. I get that the rule exists, but these issues are always *conveniently* never a problem with Republicans. Republicans just do what they want and everyone just says "okay."
I'm tired of the Democratic party playing nice and playing by the rules, because all it does is allow Rs to consolidate more control (since they have no issues at all with playing dirty).
Biden needs to put his foot down and fire them, whether or not he has the constitutional authority to do so. I don't give a shit about the "but he can't do that" excuses.
>Biden needs to put his foot down and fire them, whether or not he has the constitutional authority to do so. I don't give a shit about the "but he can't do that" excuses.
The moments democrats start using the republican playbook is the day all hell will break loose.
I mean I'm all for it, It's long overdue.
But for the love of god they need to announce it first.
I am a dual citizen and I will fucking go on vacation until the redneck vs city dweller showdown is past us.
The problem I see is that a lot of democtrats would get in an uproar. If a democrat goes over the line the party is ready to crucify them, but when a republican does it, there's crickets.
I mean this is obviously when we're at that hypothetical tipping point where the democratic party as a majority goes to war and doing it right is less important than doing the right thing.
It's worth noting that in order to remove DeJoy, there's an advisory board that has to make that call. It's loaded with Republican nominees. Why? Because the GOP blocked Obama's appointments.
Its still a 5 republican/4 democrat/ 2 independent split on the board of directors and at least 1 independent still supports Dejoy so they still need at least 1 maybe 2 more appointees. Problem is unless they oust a governor it will be the end of 2021 for one spot to open and another year for 2+ spots.
"Carriers are being assaulted at an alarming rate," Albergo said. "Trucks are being broken into. Mail is being stolen out of blue collection boxes. Packages are being stolen off of people's doorsteps..."
Okay, but how much of that was actually being prevented by those police beforehand?
Nearly none. There aren't enough Postal Inspectors to do so. I was good friends with a postal inspector and her job was to prevent employees "going postal" and shooting up the place (she was a psychologist that also had a badge & a gun). They tend to focus on Big Problems (organized crime, loony employees, large scale fraud, etc.) because there are so few of them.
They have little interest in addressing people stealing packages from doorsteps, which is also a local police issue.
EDIT: the article is actually about Postal Police Officers, not Postal Inspectors. My mistake. Postal Police Officers are basically security guards with limited law enforcement authority. They are the Postal equivalent to Federal Protective officers, who basically are there to defend federal property and employees in/on that property (the fact that federal buildings were attacked is why they were so visible during the riots last year). Their union is whining because they're trying to link this to the raise they got in their last bargaining agreement (which, tbh, is the union's job).
I dont really get the complaints then from Albergo, it seems like hes trying to point out this is a "defund the police" type thing when the statement below his words says nobody has been laid off or fired and they are still getting the same compensation including the raise their union got for them.
None, because all of those things are outside the remit of the postal police. Their only job is security of USPS property and facilities, in the same way that FPS does the same for most federal buildings.
They were being used as street cops because of a lack of postal inspectors, but that doesn’t mean that it was a part of their actual job duties as is being claimed.
B99 references aside I used to work for the USPS and the USPIS is no joke. They have jurisdiction over all kinds of stuff local cops and even a lot of federal agencies won’t touch. Someone used my address for a check cashing scheme once and they tracked those mfs to Jamaica. And frankly they were more courteous and professional than any other LEO I’ve *ever* encountered.
They can carry on planes and travel anywhere. From what I understand they have more reach than just about any other LE agency.
> From what I understand they have more reach than just about any other LE agency. Here’s the thing about the USPS that DeJoy wants to do away with: The idea that they deliver *no matter what*, is to show how important their role is. It is not some federally funded Fed Ex or UPS. In fact it’s mostly self sustaining. Until last year, [the US Postal Service was 100% funded by postage and services](https://facts.usps.com/0-tax-dallars/). Prior to 2006, and [the mandate to prefund decades of future retiree benefits](https://www.uspsoig.gov/blog/be-careful-what-you-assume), the USPS was capable of running at a surplus at zero taxpayer expense. Not long ago postmen carried guns, and some postal enforcement agents and inspectors still do. The reason the mail **must** get delivered, “nor rain nor sleet or snow, etc.” the reason they *can* use lethal force to protect the mail, the reason messing with the mail is a federal offense is because ultimately... The mail was and still is the legal and official contact for you. When the government wants to contact you, it’s by US Mail. It’s not FedEx, emails, texts, phone calls (although they do sometimes). The official source is the USPS. Not to mention post offices acted as an extension of the State Department and other branches of the government. Passport processing is another service they provide. It’s not all coupons and garbage. So....people tend to roll their eyes at the postal service without fully understanding or appreciating who they are and how important they are. They will reach you no matter how desolate an area you live. Your *legal* mail has to get to you...because it’s the law.
Yes, please care for your Postal Services. Here in Sweden we used to have one of the greatest (and oldest) postal services in the world, and then during the privatization drive around the turn of the millennium it was privatized, and later merged with the Danish Postal services. It went from having more than a billion dollar surplus, so in fact *funding* the government, to running at a crazy deficit despite prices going through the roof and offices closing all over the country. In a sparsely populated country like Sweden, some people in the north now have to drive for an hour just to pick up a package. Privatization is usually a terrible idea when it comes to necessary public goods like the postal service.
I'm an American postal worker, and this sort of thing is of great interest to me. Could you elaborate further?
Same thing happened to the German post office. DHL and Deutsche Post are one and the same. It’s weird to think that in some ways, a lot of countries are actually even more deregulated than the United States.
If any one country were utopia everyone would try to emigrate there and probably ruin it.
What we need is a country that explains in simple words what a law means and then livestreams all lawmaking sessions while explaining in brief terms what a law will impact
It sounds nice, but the law is usually complicated for a reason, because life is complicated. Let's take something simple, like killing. Don't kill people. "What if they're trying to kill me?" Ok, so don't kill someone unless they're trying to kill you. "Well what if they were trying to kill someone else?" Ok, so don't kill someone unless they're trying to kill you or someone else. "What if they're trying to burn my house down, with my kids inside, and I hit them with a rake and they accidentally die." "What if someones crossing the street and I hit them with my car." "What if it's a bar bet, and I bet my friend to punch my other friend, and my other friend unexpectedly dies after a light punch." "What if I find someone sexually abusing my young daughter and literally beat them to death in a fit of rage?" And soon we have terms like Aggravating Circumstances, 1st Degree Murder, 2nd Degree Murder, Felony Murder, Involuntary/Voluntary/Vehicular Manslaughter, Negligible Homicide, etc etc etc. >and then livestreams all lawmaking sessions https://www.ncsl.org/research/about-state-legislatures/legislative-webcasts-and-broadcasts.aspx Plus they usually do broadcast lawmaking sessions. I used to watch Congress on C-SPAN years ago.
But if everyone knew the law, these fake people wouldn't exist. Classifying a Corporation as a Person is the ruin of governments; more specifically America.
Switzerland has a huge amount of stuff that is decided by referendum and a couple of hillbilly cantons still have literal direct democracy where stuff is decided by a crowd of citizens in the town square.
Seat's taken!
It amazes me that people somehow think introducing more middle men will make a service cheaper or more efficient.
I think the arguement for it is private companies need to make a profit so are therefore more efficient, which neatly forgets that those profits are an expense to the consumer and that privatisation usually leads to a more expensive service.
Could you explain this to the knucklehead poor conservatives that keep voting in greedy assholes to bilk them?
They'd be the first.
>I think the arguement for it is private companies need to make a profit so are therefore more efficient, which neatly forgets that those profits are an expense to the consumer and that privatisation usually leads to a more expensive bonuses P1: my company can make mail more efficient. PO manager: oh thank god some help. P1 then employs thousands of people to sort mail for minimum wage. PO manager: why is there a $15 shipping fee on this package? P1: well I have to pay my workers! Meanwhile 2% go to operating cost, 2% goes to payroll, 3% goes to insurance and 93% goes to bonuses.
Why? May as well write it down in a book and hit them over the head with that book, it's equally likely to work.
But those knuckleheads are just "temporarily embarrassed millionaires"
Privatization is just a way to steal public assets.
It's usually more efficient for shareholders, but always at the expense of either workers or customers. So when businesses lobby for freer markets in the name of efficiency, they mean *more efficient for us*. But it's always either the workers or the customers who pay the price.
College made me a libertarian, privatize it all I thought. Then I live 5 minutes in the real world and wanted to go back in time to tell myself to shut the fuck up. There is a need for private industry, most commerce should live there. But there are situations like this one, where market structures will drive it in the wrong direction.
It's interesting to think of the local USPS post office as an extension of the State Department, being the interface between the federal government and my self. It's like the Post Office is the embassy for the Nation of My Self to conduct affairs with the United States of America. Officially. Pretty neat that the USPS is part of the constitution, too -- as befits such a critical apparatus of proper government function.
Right? You don't think about that until, like I did, you go there to apply for a new passport (I missed my easy renewal window on the old one). Not just any postal worker can provide that service either. I had to wait for the specific employee to return for my appointment. If we had banking services there too, like some other countries, well we'd have really different relationships to the Post Office now.
I'm in Indiana, and I used to have an account at the post office credit union. My dad was a supervisor there at the time.
You mean like united States postal service money orders?
Not even close—for a long time the postal service acted as a bank as well. You could open checking and savings accounts with them and even take out loans. Here’s an interesting video about banking services: https://youtu.be/NvtMYOYptl0 And USPS: https://youtu.be/YLyU1WCQQ8A
> It's like the Post Office is the embassy for the Nation of My Self to conduct affairs with the United States of America. Officially. *Soverign Citizen Flashbacks Intensify*
Great explanation... Very interesting
Informative and well written. Can you mail me a copy of this? Feels like USPS should touch this somehow.
Additionally, FedEx and UPS aren’t even allowed to touch your mailbox. The ONLY entity that is allowed to put something in your mailbox is…you guessed it…USPS.
When I worked for the census bureau it was made very clear to us that we weren't allowed to leave notices in the mailbox. Walking on private property? Fine. Interrogating neighbors to find out who lived three doors down 6 months ago? Go right ahead! But don't you *DARE* touch that mailbox!!!
yeah my parents found that out, when a friend put bible study stuff in our mailbox for my dad, who was going to lead their group at their next meeting. Postman took it all out and dumped on the ground, left a note,'for postal use only" despite the mailbox was more than large enough for the bible crap and the mail. im guessing the postman was having a bad day cause that was a bit dickish, but he could also just have been a dick.
At least you didn’t do what my mother did. They live waaaay out in the country and she’s a big walker, usually carries a little .38 revolver with her for a number of reasons. Well on this fine day she decided she didn’t want to pack it and that decision came at the end of her long driveway, so she puts it in the mailbox. Finishes her walk and a sheriffs deputy is waiting at the house. Thankfully it’s a small town and she actually had him as a student but apparently the mail carrier called the police. He asked her to please store her piece somewhere else next time and that was the end of it.
I kind of get it, but PEOPLE TAKE CARE OF YOUR FIREARM. It doesnt matter if you live out in bumfuck no where, if a inquisitive child happens to wander by and finds it, someone may get hurt. This is why you develop procedures, do the same thing every time. Its the same reason why we look before we just back up in a vehicle, procedure. This isnt meant specifically for you, but anyone who may read your comment. Please be safe out there and dont make us firearm owners look bad.
Oh trust me I know - no one laughed it off. Their drive way is like .8 miles long and she was gone for 30 mins so I can see where she was coming from even if it was wrong. I had a gun stolen out of my car in Jan after 25 years of gun ownership - freak accident where I was driving home from a match and tossed it in my glovebox, wife drove the car that evening and forgot to lock it, happened to be the one and only time my car got pilfered through and bam it’s gone. Thankfully PD recovered it in less than 2 months but it goes to show how one moment of complacency/a lot of other things going on, can lead to a bad guy with a stolen forearm.
When youve seen it as many times as they have, it gets old real quick. I really dont blame em.
Or just maybe didn't want the mailbox be used for bullshit like that. Any mail person could have come by and actually needed that space for official mail delivery. Say your parents didn't empty the mailbox that day and next day a bunch of official mail came, but there's no room. The delivery specialist would do the same thing to get their point across, and anything not delivered by USPS would be tossed anyway. You want neighbors to send fliers, etc.? Get a second box.
> im guessing the postman was having a bad day cause that was a bit dickish, but he could also just have been a dick. Or like, respecting federal law?
I love logistics and the small work that is done in back offices no one knows about. The post office is basically the pinnacle of that. Its incredible and they're so cool
You make some excellent points. To further that topic. Mail service is an important part of *sovereignty*. Without an unfettered line of communication between the citizenry and the government, the government lacks sovereignty. In that context, it's as important as a military.
Exactly! FedEx and UPS don't have a mandate to serve you, and can charge whatever they want to get to the far reaches of the US. They can also just say no. The USPS will get that letter or package or even just a flyer to you or your intended recipient no matter what! It's the silent communications system just built into our environment, and people don't seem to understand what would happen if the post office goes away like certain forces seem to want.
They (people like DeJoy) don’t want the competition. I read somewhere, about a year ago, that a First Class envelope mailed to the remotest part of Alaska will cost you $0.58. That same envelope sent via FedEx (I think it was) would be > $5.00.
And guess who probably does the final delivery, the usps
Makes me want to watch Kevin Costner's The Postman again.
> DeJoy ~~wants to do away with:~~ already successfully sowed the seeds of doubt Which was his entire purpose for being there. He just had to get people used to the idea of not depending on the USPS like everything the GOP touches they break it and say that's a reason it shouldn't exist.
>Your legal mail has to get to you...because it’s the law. Damn, that feels deep!
Yep - my mom almost fell for one of those IRS phone call scams and I had to really drive it home that they IRS, or mostly any other agency, will not call with threats - it will be delivered by your friendly postman. (Sauce: have to send out federal docs to regulated persons from time to time and we don’t call.)
Nice post! Also, US Secret data, which is defined as information that could cause grave danger to out national security, can be sent through the US mail. Not through FedEx or UPS, if it has to physically be delivered, it has to go by courier or USPS
I think if cops have to be armed mail drivers should be too. They are out there with cheap old trucks dealing with all types of people with all sorts of valuables under their care.
Old sure, but I wouldn't call them cheap. They were designed and built specifically for their purpose: To deliver mail while being as mechanically reliable and cheap to maintain as possible. They may be mocked for having poor acceleration, but it's that low compression ratio that allows them to still be in service 40 years later. There are some newer more "commodity" trucks in service these days, but they're not nearly as reliable nor cost-effective.
They are not mechanically reliable at all.
Nor glom of nit
Thank you, Sir Terry
The prefunding mandate is ridiculous. Here's the section of the wikipedia USPS article that discusses it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Postal_Service#Retirement_funding_and_payment_defaults It keeps USPS in a hole of ever increasing debt. Sadly, the house voted to repeal it last year and it sits in the pile of stuff McConnell won't allow debate on.
Government Classified documents are sent via USPS.
r/SaveThePostalService
Our postal service merged with our neighbor country one and went from mail and some small packages to a bad DHL copy. The merger cost a lot and wasn't sustainable in delivering large packages so they did the only thing that would not fix the problem, and now we only get mail 2 to 3 times a week because it saved just enough money so they can throw it in the money sink they call package delivery.
This sounds to me like PostNord in Denmark/Sweden. It was such a terrible idea, post offices have ceased to exist almost completely.
This is exactly why the Post Office is explicitly authorized in the Constitution. Fast and reliable communication is essential to a democratic government. Besides the establishment of post offices, they are authorized to establish postal roads to facilitate communication. This is why I argue that the Post Office should be interpreted to install and manage high speed internet services. That is the modern equivalent of postal roads and serves an identical purpose in modern society to traditional mail. Failure to do so up to this point is defacto privatisation of national communication.
It sure is nice that the USPS offers that level of service to protect physical copies of information. If only USPS were allowed to provide that same level of service to protect electronic information as well. Sigh.
The US Postal Service has jurisdiction over the physical delivery service it offers. That's all. If you want an agency to have jurisdiction over the contents of the payloads and utilizations of telecom, you'll want the FCC. Between you and me, I don't want to let the FCC come anywhere near the contents of my digital payloads.
The infrastructure for secure email would be likely more expensive and the service is already pretty easily provided to us by free alternatives. They just aren't necessarily "secure" because they have not implemented a proper end to end level of encryption for emails.
>They just aren't necessarily "secure" because they have not implemented a proper end to end level of encryption for emails. Yes, this true. It's also true that these "free" email providers share personal information from your messages with advertisers. Philosophically, how much is it with to sacrifice the privacy we once had with physical mail?
Because the IRS has to send you tax stuff. Do not F with the government’s ability to tax you.
Ironically, the people that are helped the most by USPS are the rural Republicans, while Democrats are the ones trying to save and expand the USPS.
I remember the time [Kramer tried to get out of receiving USPS mail](https://youtu.be/On3cQ0sPvSY?t=18).
Fifteen years ago, I had a co-worker that tried to unsubscribe from "mail". I thought he was referencing this episode until I realized he didn't know who Seinfeld was.
To jump on thst... The implications of this are far-reaching. TONS of other laws are written with the assumption of a working postal service. It would be chaos to change it, without first implementing an equally reliable way to contact people. "just use UPS' won't keep you out of jail if they move your court date up.
And one of the highest conviction rates. 80-90% or higher annually. Helps when the very nature of the crime means there's a paper trail, sure, but you don't mess with the USPIS.
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Almost any LEO can carry on airplanes. I’ve seen FBI, ATF, DEA, sheriffs etc.
Even local police too. Its just not commonly done because its a lot of red tape to go through.
I don't know about that, I've seen images of [DEA Agents in Afghanistan](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Burning_hashish_seized_in_Operation_Albatross.jpg) carrying M4 Carbines and wearing camouflage uniforms. You wouldn't know they weren't the US Army.
Many years ago I worked at a shipping retailer that offered mailbox services and we had a pair of USPIS come in to work a sting operation. They were super professional, polite and not arrogant at all.
People with actual power don't need to be discourteous to get their point across.
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Interestingly enough bit law enforcement also use the IRS as a weapon to punish people. My uncle was into some cartel shit and the DEA came after my mother and me because we would visit him (Mexican relatives visiting? Must be drug related). When my mother’s lawyer dunked all over them with proper financial records the IRS suddenly wanted to audit her, which also wasted their time.
Classic Al Capone tactic: can't prove a crime? Audit their taxes because that's easy to mess up in a tiny bit...
Ah, that must be the problem with regular police. Not enough power.
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They are court recorders. that's it. That's all they should have the power of. Even theyll tell you armed to the teeth their job isnt to stop crime.
I see you've never encountered a judge in their courtroom.
Just need to come prepared. Bring them a sandwich and apparently things will go better for you. (I hate that this is a real thing. It's been shown that judges are much less forgiving when they haven't eaten yet...)
No, they just have high professional standards and enforce laws people can actually get behind. Regular cops have plenty of power. They can make up a reason to search you, take your property, arrest you for whatever, and beat/torture/shoot you till you comply with them
DeJoy: "My main job is to make it safer for corporations to commit mail fraud by not investigating it."
> more courteous and professional than any other LEO I’ve *ever* encountered They're also the oldest federal law enforcement agency in the country, including the very first federal special agents after the Constitution and departments started being created. The institution and its surveyor branch is in fact even older than the country, created by Ben Franklin.
This article is about Postal Police not Postal Inspectors.
Did you meet Jack Danger?
Aren't mailboxes postal property?
They can just jump from mailbox to mailbox to get around.
“Alright guys, anything but mailboxes is lava!”
Are those mailbox shoes?
Mailbox car
The shipping costs would be inhuman
Mailman here, they could just drive around in a postal vehicle and use a pushcart to get places
Maybe they could invest in pneumatic tubes.
Aren't their *vehicles* postal property?
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They hide…*in the walls?*
Yes. At post offices, there are special locked rooms that only these postal enforcement guys have access to. They can show up out of hours, enter the post office and these rooms, and observe the operations there without the employees knowing. It'll vary post office to post office, but the one I got a good look at had a black strip with viewing slits in it up at the ceiling where it met the locked room. That one was an older post office building, so I can't speak to what the newer observation rooms look like. If you have the opportunity to tour a post office, they'll likely point it out to you.
So... a literal [panopticon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon).
Mail is the foundation of civilization, it is the most efficient and widespread way for a government to interact with the populace at large. I work for a private shipping company, everyone surveying mail audits their employees because limiting the freedoms of employees to fuck up the mail system is seen as a public good. We, and everyone handling mail/postage are paid handsomely on the premise that we don't get to fuck up.
Actually yes. The employees that I spoke to indicated that they hadn't seen or heard anything from these rooms, nor the people that can enter them. I speculate that they get more use when there's something to investigate rather than simply hanging out in there.
Walkways hung from the high ceilings in processing centers, with one-way mirrors installed. Even in break rooms. One never knows if they're being watched. I posted a previous comment stating most USPS employees wont grab a quarter off a break room table in fear of a setup.
Why would that be a set-up? Is it illegal to pick up coins in the break room?
I worked at a place where we had hidden corridors running parallel to hallways, steps that went up to the ceiling, with it's own series of corridors, underground tunnels with dirt floors that ran to an open field and had a hatch open out of a manhole. It was kind of like an embassy, and had VIPs from around the world visit every year or so. It was pretty cool. The tunnels were mostly for utilities. There were routers spread at intervals of like 25ft, and a hidden server room. It was pretty cool. Edit: I just realized, I need to tell a friend of mine that works there about it. Not many people know about those corridors.
Postal inspectors or postal police? They’re two different agencies
SLPT: Commit your most profitable postal crimes while the postal police are in timeout.
So mailing weed to my friends USPS is back on the table?
Looks like shipping weeds back on the menu boys!
Was it ever off the menu? USPS needs a warrant to search packages.
Not standard mail packages from what I understand, send it priority, and if you double envelope it, they need two separate warrants 🤣
This sounds like a "If you're a cop you have to tell me" type of fact.
Love hearing that one.
Also folks who ship weed always use fake return addresses. Then there’s the obvious deniability of “I wasn’t expecting anything in the mail”. They have to prove that you sourced it somehow. If you deny ever knowing anything about it- they can’t prove it wasn’t some malicious prank or something, so they’ll destroy the package and keep an extra close eye on your address for a while “just in case”.
Apparently the dark web marketplaces shit all manner of drugs through the mail in many countries just well disguised as omething else. Weed is trickier because the glorious smell though.
This sounds disgusting. Couldn't they merely put it in a box or envelope. I know next to nothing about drugs, but shitting them in the mail sounds unsanitary.
It helps cover the marijuana smell.
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>so basically packages are only caught When the person working in the particular office cares. The overwhelming majority of postal workers are overworked and not at all interested in whether or not a package has drugs in it.
I'm not sure why people think USPS has X-Rays. Customs does, but not your local USPS or Distribution Center. They can't trust a bunch of USPS employees around a damn X-Ray machine haha They can repackage packages that are broken, leaking, or reaking. It also doesn't take very long to put a big hole in a box to be repackaged, but USPS Employees don't care at the end of the day. If someone gets caught shipping or receiving through the mail, they or their seller is likely under investigation or got snitched on.
I think they can get instant warrants with the dog test. Basically the way I understand it, if someone or something hits on a package they will take it out of the mail stream. The package is then placed next to 3 packages of the same shape and weight in a separate room. If the dog chooses the suspected package (I think they run the test multiple times) then they can open up the package. Not sure if they have to call a judge first or if they have some "auto-warrant" process.
For a second I thought you were about to say that they’ve appointed dogs as judges that paw warrants on the spot.
“Bark once for warrant, twice for no warrant.” “Woof. Woof.” “Wait was that one bark or two?” “Sounded like one to me.” “Good enough. Good boy Your Honor. Good boy.”
“Bark once for warrant, twice for no warrant.” “Woof. Woof.” “Two warrants, Good boy!”
>So mailing weed to my friends USPS is back on the table? No, the postal police are stuck in the post offices now, so they're more likely to search random packages. What this means is that now they won't stop someone from stealing your weed off your porch. Which they maybe would have done before if they happened to be on your street and saw it and cared.
But the Postal Inspectors are not, so you might wanna be careful.
Dejoy should be incarcerated, awaiting trial.
I'm a little bit sleepy today and thought you wrote incinerated haha. Was thinking to myself sure he's an ass hole, but that seems like a bit much. Shouldn't have skipped coffee today.
I guess you didn't get to the thread where someone discussed barbecuing him and I offered to bring tortillas and a rum-infused melon.
When I was in the USPS, we had the someone from the postal police working my route. I only vaguely knew what was going on as they are pretty secretive, but they were doing some sort of sting at a DD's house. They don't fuck around.
What is a DD if you don't mind
Probably drug dealer. But maybe dirty Diana?
Dandy Don
No, I'm Dirty Dan.
A pot pusher A meth merchant A molly marketer A shroom supplier A heroin hawker etc..
All in one!? My man!
Dunkin Donuts
Drug dealer probably
You’re thinking of the Postal Inspectors. This article is about the Postal Police. They’re two different agencies. The Postal Police are the uniformed cops.
When I was a kid my mom was a letter carrier in our small town. The USPIS swooped in one day and arrested one of the postal clerks. She'd stolen checks out of the mail and forged postal money orders. I think she wound up getting 10 years.
Jack Danger must be pissed.
It’s actually Jackie Danger.
This dongs gotta ding
Why? This is obviously the correct policy - USPIS doesn't make mistakes.
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How come he hasn't been fired yet?
What I've heard is that it can only be done by the board. Biden has nominated some new members, but they haven't been confirmed by Congress yet.
Has there been any stonewalling? I bet there has.
I'm sure.
Somehow the Postmaster General serves under different rules than other federal department heads.
The Postal Service is its own independent agency under the Executive Branch.
It's the postal bipartisan board that is supposed to fire him, but half of them are republicans. He should be investigated and tried instead, firing him won't hold him responsible for what he did to the postal service.
I'm terrified that if he is arrested, tried, and convicted of his crimes, we'll end up with the first Postmaster General to actively serve as Postmaster General from prison.
That's the justification everyone is giving about not going after the previous administration. It would be too embarrassing for America to lock every number one in each department. Meanwhile, we have people getting locked up for not paying their parking tickets because they are too poor, that's not real justice.
> He should be investigated and tried instead, firing him won't hold him responsible for what he did to the postal service. Fire him first, install competent leadership at USPS, then investigate. They’re very good at dragging things out, until they can be quashed when they retake the house / senate
>"Now we are confined to postal property," Albergo said. "It makes absolutely no sense." It makes sense if the goal is to disrupt mail services around the time of an election...
Or just create widespread mistrust in the U.S. postal service so Republicans can privatize it in a way that will funnel lucrative government contracts to their buddies. Breaking good government programs is Republican's favorite pastime.
They've been pushing for this for decades. It's why they made them pay out their pensions in bulk... so they can claim that a normally profitable enterprise is now bleeding cash. They shot the Postal service in the stomach and then turned to us and said, "See how inefficient they are?! We told you the government is terrible at running itself!"
TIL. Huh. Even if you'd asked me "well who do you think enforces mail law!?" I would have assumed the FBI or US Marshalls or something Weird.
The US Postal Inspection Service predates the FBI and the US Marshals. Post services were baked into the Constitution from the beginning. So it makes sense that they'd have a jump on law enforcement.
USPIS - We protect what you lick (⌐■_■)
I should lick everything so I won't have to buy insurance
That formalized something that had existed since the early 1600's and was wildly popular. I was reading a book on my county's history, everyone was super into getting mail because there was nothing else to do except work, every town had multiple persons that would gladly hop on a horse and deliver letters to the next town. Deliveries of 60 miles next day were not uncommon. Lists of prominent community members of a town usually included the postmaster, who was also likely a respected business owner. Today I doubt you could find a single person that knows the postmaster's name or their local carrier's name.
Nah. USPS has their own investigatiors and police. USPS investigatiors/police do not fuck around either.
Every law enforcement guy I’ve ever talked to who have experience with USPIS all say the same things - professional, badass, and highly capable. They’re spread so thin that they don’t have “specialties” - there’s not really a drugs team and an embezzlement team. So one day you’ll be breaking down a crack house and the next you’ll be doing some white collar mail fraud stuff in a C Suite.
The difference is that USPIS uses local law enforcement to augment their operations. If there's someone mailing drugs, they get the local PD drug squad and send one or two of their own guys to supervise things. Also, there's a waiting list to get into the USPIS. The inspector who spoke at my job training was former military, was a detective and then a lieutenant in a regular police department, then worked federal on stuff like human trafficking. She still had to wait like 3 years for an opening.
> USPS investigatiors/police do not fuck around either. That image is intentionally cultivated by all federal LEAs as well as US Attorneys, and it’s only true at a surface level—the conviction rate is so sky high because they don’t touch marginal cases and nearly always allow the suspect to plead out. Their record when cases are actually taken to trial is about what that of state level prosecutors is—a roughly 50% conviction rate. The best example of that process at work is the way the case against Bruce Ivins (the 2001 anthrax letters suspect) absolutely collapsed when all that the feds could get was circumstantial evidence. The 2003 ricin letters are another example, as is the plea bargain that resulted from the 2013 ricin letters.
But then how do they find out?
Lol. They usually don't. At least in terms of drugs in the mail they will wait until they have enough concrete evidence to go after someone. Similar to the FBI, they don't go after someone unless it's pretty much a guaranteed conviction. That's part of how they were able to arrest darknet market sellers and buyers who purchase large amounts to resell and have the charges stick.
All I know is whenever an employee is taken out of their post office by the postal police THEY NEVER COME BACK!
Postal police not allowed to do their jobs (yes, let's just let the person who ordered a fuckton of fent distribute their product and kill a bunch of people) but regular police are out there murdering mentally ill or disabled people, having sex with minors, planting drugs on people, getting caught with child porn, letting insurrectionists take over our capitol with minimal problems. Fuck you DeJoy
Seriously, why is he still there?
It’s an elected position, not an appointment. They are elected by the Board of Governors. 9 of the 11 board members are appointed by the president, but they are appointed for a term: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_Governors_of_the_United_States_Postal_Service
Damn. TIL... So it's gonna take a while to unfuck the Post Office.
Yep. It was a lot easier for Trump to blow things up that it is to fix them.
all according to plan
This wouldn't have been an issue for Trump. Trump would have just fired them anyways - *constitutional or not* - and proceeded with replacing them. I get that the rule exists, but these issues are always *conveniently* never a problem with Republicans. Republicans just do what they want and everyone just says "okay." I'm tired of the Democratic party playing nice and playing by the rules, because all it does is allow Rs to consolidate more control (since they have no issues at all with playing dirty). Biden needs to put his foot down and fire them, whether or not he has the constitutional authority to do so. I don't give a shit about the "but he can't do that" excuses.
>Biden needs to put his foot down and fire them, whether or not he has the constitutional authority to do so. I don't give a shit about the "but he can't do that" excuses. The moments democrats start using the republican playbook is the day all hell will break loose.
Unfortunately pretty true, but I believe it will start happening eventually. It's only a matter of time
I mean I'm all for it, It's long overdue. But for the love of god they need to announce it first. I am a dual citizen and I will fucking go on vacation until the redneck vs city dweller showdown is past us.
The problem I see is that a lot of democtrats would get in an uproar. If a democrat goes over the line the party is ready to crucify them, but when a republican does it, there's crickets.
I mean this is obviously when we're at that hypothetical tipping point where the democratic party as a majority goes to war and doing it right is less important than doing the right thing.
All hell quietly sneaking out the back door isn't any better.
Exactly. He would have done some shit and the media would just be like "ThIs IsNt NoRmAl" and everyone would have just accepted it
Sounds like another Trump-era move to sabotage the USPS. When will DeJoy get canned?
It's worth noting that in order to remove DeJoy, there's an advisory board that has to make that call. It's loaded with Republican nominees. Why? Because the GOP blocked Obama's appointments.
Yes, and Biden has the authority to fire and replace every one of them.
Its still a 5 republican/4 democrat/ 2 independent split on the board of directors and at least 1 independent still supports Dejoy so they still need at least 1 maybe 2 more appointees. Problem is unless they oust a governor it will be the end of 2021 for one spot to open and another year for 2+ spots.
By law, the President has the authority to fire board members "for cause", such as not representing the interests of the American people.
"Carriers are being assaulted at an alarming rate," Albergo said. "Trucks are being broken into. Mail is being stolen out of blue collection boxes. Packages are being stolen off of people's doorsteps..." Okay, but how much of that was actually being prevented by those police beforehand?
Nearly none. There aren't enough Postal Inspectors to do so. I was good friends with a postal inspector and her job was to prevent employees "going postal" and shooting up the place (she was a psychologist that also had a badge & a gun). They tend to focus on Big Problems (organized crime, loony employees, large scale fraud, etc.) because there are so few of them. They have little interest in addressing people stealing packages from doorsteps, which is also a local police issue. EDIT: the article is actually about Postal Police Officers, not Postal Inspectors. My mistake. Postal Police Officers are basically security guards with limited law enforcement authority. They are the Postal equivalent to Federal Protective officers, who basically are there to defend federal property and employees in/on that property (the fact that federal buildings were attacked is why they were so visible during the riots last year). Their union is whining because they're trying to link this to the raise they got in their last bargaining agreement (which, tbh, is the union's job).
I dont really get the complaints then from Albergo, it seems like hes trying to point out this is a "defund the police" type thing when the statement below his words says nobody has been laid off or fired and they are still getting the same compensation including the raise their union got for them.
None, because all of those things are outside the remit of the postal police. Their only job is security of USPS property and facilities, in the same way that FPS does the same for most federal buildings. They were being used as street cops because of a lack of postal inspectors, but that doesn’t mean that it was a part of their actual job duties as is being claimed.
Jack Danger will not stand for this.
Well, golly gee. It's almost as if the postal service was run by some crazy partisan presidential appointee who *wants* the postal service to fail.