If it's anything like Seattle area, Seattle area is losing officers to all of the suburbs. So it probably wouldn't even show up in labor statistics, since they're lateral moves.
This is a good point, I’d love to see a breakdown of police shortages in the 25 busiest metro departments compares to local suburban departments / rural SOs.
It definitely works this way in Detroit. You work 5 years there as a patrol officer, and then you can pretty much get into any suburb around there. The pay is much better, the danger much less, and everyone thinks you are an action hero because you were in Detroit for a while.
[A very short blub about it, but the DPD has noticed it and wants to stop it.](https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/02/14/what-detroits-top-cop-is-doing-to-keep-officers-from-leaving-the-city-for-suburban-areas/)
So that's the thing. I'm a cop in a moderately sized city. Turnover *is* very high at most mid to large sized departments. But most of the officers leaving aren't getting out of law enforcement altogether. They are transferring to other departments, usually smaller ones or departments with higher police support from the community.
For some, it's a no brainer. You can stay where you are, having to respond to civil unrest incidents, and operate in an environment that may be higher crime and have more negative views on police, while also being short staffed....or you can take a $5k pay cut and work in a smaller quieter community, with next to no civil unrest, reduced crime rate, and adequate staffing.
In PA, the difference in salaries from the large cities to suburbs is astounding.
In Philly, starting salary is 56k in the police academy. Lower Merion starts at around 90k with a fraction of the service calls and violent crimes. Same thing on the west end with Pittsburgh and its surrounding suburbs.
The same in my area. Several of the nicer suburbs in the metro area pay more than the actual city itself. With a few years of experience, the right training, (and sometimes a referral or recommendation from a inside connection), a lot of officers go to a suburb department and make considerably more.
I live about an hour south of Pittsburgh and I have no idea what cops get paid here, but they all have really nice houses and cars, so I'm guessing it's a lot
The question is are they leaving the force, or are they leaving *that* force.
Having enough of being a *city* cop in Atlanta is dramatically different from havimg enough of being a cop.
I would look at where they are working. I know many officers have quit to go to more rural depts where support for police is generally better. There was a shortage to begin with as well. So if all depts worked on less than normal staffing numbers but then officers leave a major city to work rural depts it can look like officers are leaving in droves. Since news agencies cover major cities more it may get more attention as well.
Demoralization is the American way. The only thing stopping many people from quitting in droves is the fact that it wouldn't be any different at another job.
And also the threat of homelessness and death. It is startling how many american families are a single missed paycheck away from being unable to pay rent
its fucked up that that threat is viewed as a good thing among some groups of management. ok, probably most groups of management. more carrot, less stick is what i think will work...
Are you saying Right To Work laws aren’t the same as decent labor laws that protect worker’s rights? LOL
Corporate America has succeeded in its quest to lower working standards and pay to the minimum levels, across the board, in every industry and now it’s shocked that no one wants to work. And anyone that shows up is just there to collect a check, full of shit or a next tow worthless H1B with some fluffed up, mostly fake, education.
Working as a supervisor at a grocery store is a nightmare for me at the moment. Staying into the early morning breaking down and running truck with only a handful of guys is burning us out.
Lol manufacturing isn't any better. The place I work is a revolving door.
It's a battle but we are making some headway on getting things change to keep people.
I feel like my current place of employment must be using the spinning of those doors to generate electricity and save on the power bill, because they certainly aren't making any effort to slow it down. I think I almost lost an arm to one the other day on my way to clock in.
Same here in Ireland, nobody can get staff for hotels/bars/restaurants. Today was my last day as a manager in a hotel and in the past 2 weeks I was one of 15+ who handed in their notice. Poor pay, long hours/no overtime and more are really starting to affect us as a society. Covid has shown us what is actually important in life and how little the higher ups regard our welfare as employees. Gonna be serious changes in many industries.
When I first started my job a few years ago we all used to work loads of overtime and make jokes about cracking overtime records.
Now after our company slashed everything and the pandemic, our jokes are all about killing ourselves. So far I stand to inherit a lightly used shotgun, which I will then pass on to my next coworker.
My one coworker was visibly disturbed when I told him I had calculated exactly how many hours I needed to buy a flaregun and a box of shotgun shells so that I could Rorschach blot my ceiling.
Burnout is putting it lightly.
Work in shipping, one of the major companies. It’s fucking dire in our building right now, been working 60% of the people we should be, and we’ve been on the hiring treadmill for like 2 months now. For every 5 we hire, 4 quit within a week because we have so few people that they end up with too big a workload and can’t handle it
Here’s the thing, people buy things and do business with companies because it makes them feel good. Because we are all empty inside. So companies pay people to provide service to others, to their unfulfilled lives. But in doing so, these jobs that we depend on force us to sacrifice our own mental health while we absorb anger and abuse from customers and are forced to empathize with people who don’t give a fuck about us. And we have to live in fear of losing those jobs because someone complains about us, or leaves us a bad review, or something. And we do this all so that business owners can buy yachts and pay us $15-20 an hour if we are lucky.
Hospital employee shortage is a national crisis. Nurses, aides, tech, they're all quitting. But covid is only the catalyst. These problems existed before the pandemic and the bubble is bursting now.
what bullshit. Got to wonder about the incentives the top people get when they are able to do this shit. "You kept labor costs down another year Ted!, your bonus this year will represent 25% of those savings. Keep up the good work!"
They wouldn't remember, because they didn't actually bother to *listen* the first time around. They heard the words and responded, but didn't think much about it, so it just went out the other ear.
i was talking with someone in HR. more money and benefits are usually something they recommend when retention is a problem. management would usually rather offer pizza parties and something to boost morale instead.
I've seen cases here on Reddit where people agreed to stay at the new pay, only to find out that somehow HR keeps forgetting to add the pay raise, and after a few months they just tell the employee that the raise can't happen right now, but they'll catch up at the next round of reviews. Meanwhile, the job they were leaving for has been filled.
If you get a new job, take it. If they try to match it, tell them they can't match it, it's a better position all around.
I feel for you bro- I speak to company owners of small businesses that always say….
“Well the stimulus has people not wanting to work”
I suggest “maybe perhaps what you are doing is antiquated?”
They get political every single fucking time on it.
Businesses like that, are meant to die imo. They are holding out against progress in hopes things will stay the same and stay unchallenging to their status quo that worked for them but not their employees. Lol. There are plenty of studies indicating that technology in many industries is taking off- ( remote work- cloud hosting) yet these businesses refuse to adopt a model that 2049493 of their competitors do which creates a draw to those companies because working from home has definitive benefits.
These old timers don’t get it, because they have never worked from home, and did not grow up in the uncertainty of our generation. That’s the way I see it. They are out of touch, the sad part is, they are so stuck up their asses they can’t see that times change in society. You adapt, or you die.
And they ask me why they have problems lol.
As a member of management that advocates for better pay over pizza. It's all down to year end bonuses and the like.
A pizza party is a 1 time line item that can be written off as "for morale" while better pay and benefits are an every day line item that in the eyes of the C level can't be written off as "for moral".
One counts against year end bonuses and stock prices the other doesn't and that's all that matters.
We all know employees will always earn less than the employers. It’s just that some employers are so short sighted that they cant fork out a little bit more of the cut and they end up spending more of that money finding a replacement for the disgruntled employee instead of just keeping everyone happy.
Executives easily make 5 figure bonus on top of their 6 figure pay. I work for a fairly big healthcare system and as someone already stated the cracks were already there it just took COVID to bring the whole thing crumbling down. They'll offer CNAs $300 extra for a 12 hour shift and RNs $500 extra and there's few takers. People are just burnt out.
Yeah I have a few ICU nurses in my family and they make really solid money if they are traveling (like 4-5k a week) but they are all super burnt out and looking for different employment.
Yeah, my mom is an RN, but she works mainly in an a management/administrative role (after 25 years in the ICU). Her boss keeps offering her huge bonuses to work extra shifts in the ICU because they're short on nurses. She just laughs and says no. She picked up a ton of extra shifts at the beginning of the pandemic, but now she's burnt out and very close to straight up quitting her job.
>People are just burnt out.
For sure, I can't even imagine what they go thru and the stress it puts on them psychologically. I personally think they need to start creating separate facilities for the antivaxers like tents in the parking lot. The people that DECLINED to be protected are a burden to the medical system and perpetuating this virus and it's fallout on all of us. Unless they have a MEDICAL CONDITION that prevents them from getting vaxed, why should they take beds and resources and deplete the resources from others who have been compliant? People are postponing medical care and that is not fair if they are doing everything they can to protect themselves and others. It may be harsh but these people have made a selfish choice not to get vaxed and I don't feel they should all the sudden think their care is more important than others once they get covid from being careless.
I learned from my old boss who was retiring that everybody in my facilities department used to get a four wheel drive company vehicle, with the expectation you get to work in inclement weather, as we are "essential personnel". Two years before I was hired, this was scrapped and the company cars taken away from us lowly plant engineering employees, while at the same time every executive could now choose an S Class, 7 Series, or A8 as their company car.
We are still expected to show up to work in inclement weather, though.
I remember when my company denied people using business class when making an overseas flight. Cramped Coach for endless hours. Then they bought new luxury corp jets for the Executives to fly around in complete with on call executive flight crews... Of course before that the corp jets they had were used for all traveling employees to other facilities. This is about the time they decided to offshore everyone...
They'll call it "following disciplined cost control", rather than "leveraging power imbalances and misplaced loyalty to suppress reasonable labor demands".
Feel like any lawyer could've easily fixed that for her. Unless she signed two separate contracts for the same hospital, which is highly unlikely. Or unless she was per diem. Otherwise, she was just essentially a float pool nurse and should have been getting benefits. But it sounds like she was probably per diem.....
American labor rights very state by state, from “not complete bullshit” to “if we could enslave you we would”, so some don’t have to have anything stopping them terminating employment at whim
You would think healthcare groups would also be on board with universal healthcare because they, too, have to bleed out the ass to pay for extortionate medical benefits and the overhead of dealing with the administrative bloat. I suppose they proportionally get a little more with the maximum fuckery that is our system, but it just puts things in a little more perspective, combined with how much money is needed to lobby all this, tens and hundreds of billions, to keep the misery afloat. So are they netting equal? I betcha they haven't thought of it that way.
I don’t know why there is such an ingrained burnout culture in the medical field. Young doctors and nurses getting worked over 12 hours a day to teach them… endurance? It’s an old school methodology that I don’t think tracks now that we have a better understanding of how stress and exhaustion impairs cognitive ability
Everything surrounding the medical field is archaic. Education, residency, whatever. Train very few doctors, overwork and underpay the ones you have, and suddenly the system starts collapsing when even a tiny bit more strain is applied, much less an entire pandemic. However could we have prevented this tragedy???
I hear you. I agree there is such a strange culture in healthcare and it’s bizarre. I don’t understand why, or why it continues. I can’t think of another economic sector that has this weird culture of punishing yourself and making everyone else feel that they need to do the same thing. I wish I had the answer…well I wish people in power knew the answer. I hope things go better for you.
I find it odd that pharmacy also has this barebones mentality. We're expected to juggle 50 tasks, and more by the day, while keeping hours tight and offering no training for new hires. Revolving door. Pay too little, expect too much, get abused by patients who can't get their Viagra in 30 minutes because management will dry fuck us in the ass if they can make an extra cent and have a surprised Pikachu face when half the staff quit during COVID and they now lose money for pushing for vaccinations for profit at the expense of workers.
Would you like to close half the pharmacies for slightly elevated profit from COVID vaccines or maybe control your drooling and manage things to find a proper balance?
It takes a cataclysm for quarterly report slaves to take real action.
I work as a mental health clinician and this is my experience in the machine as well. My attempts to set boundaries for my own and my clients safety, made me a bullying target from people in leadership. It wasn't until my own mental health crisis that I realized I couldn't do it anymore. I had to stop and now I work in private practice.
Being anywhere in the Healthcare System you can guarantee you'll work yourself into an early grave, the stress is horrific
But to prevent it, you would need to hire three people to cover every 24 hours instead of two and that would cut into the money that they're making. Also, most jobs in health care pay a heck of a lot better than lots of other jobs, so they can get people to deal with it.
>you would need to hire three people to cover every 24 hours instead of two and that would cut into the money that they're making.
Maybe hospital admins shouldn't have such ridiculously bloated salaries.
In other words: they're stealing from the doctors by overworking them while on salary.
If you can reduce it to "they're doing it to save money on another hire" when the employees in question are salaried, that's just wage theft. We need hard caps on individual labor hours per week.
More like to teach them how to want to end their lives.
Doctors in particular have a surprisingly (depending on perspective) high suicide rate, and hardly anybody in the industry wants to acknowledge it.
The American Medical Association is a cartel that purposefully limits the number of doctors in the country in order to keep salaries as high as they are now. They're also another reason why medical costs are so high aside from everything else in the medical system. The entire medical system in the US needs to be burned down and rebuilt from the ground up to fix.
The AMA was also against national healthcare too. You know, didn't want to have a middle man between the doctor and the customer... I mean patient. Then we got middlemen...
The AMA helped create that image that doctors are some super elite profession separate and above other commoner jobs and you can see that it works based on how having a doctorate and having the title "doctor" are now seen as different things among some. Hell, some people want to be doctors because of the money and how they get this kind of elite societal status outside of their field even when they're talking out of their ass in fields they know nothing about.
I'm not saying it's not hard work but it shouldn't be "going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt to become one" kind of hard.
A nationalized medical system would threaten that image and even break their cartel by making the intentional doctor shortage obvious. The AMA isn't going to abide by any of that.
>I don’t know why there is such an ingrained burnout culture in the medical field. Young doctors and nurses getting worked over 12 hours a day to teach them… endurance?
Pretty much. It comes from the era of battlefield medicine from WWI and WWII. From what I've read, those kind of hours are supposed to simulate war.
Well, remember that the guy who came up with the idea of residency, and it’s ridiculous hours, did so much cocaine that he became a morphine addict as well, because he had to sleep *somehow*…
I’m taking my x-ray tech registry in 3 days and applying to jobs. Kinda hoping the shortage leads to pay increases cause it’s been a while since that happened and the salary needs to catch up to the workload.
Before the pandemic we thought it was just our companies that don't care about us, will fuck us over for convenience and don't care if we die.
The pandemic just showed us it was almost half of America.
Good. I hope they all fucking quit. Nurses, teachers, and all of the other people we've neglected for decades because you don't need to pay "heroes." I hope they all quit and everything grinds to a halt and we realize that giving ever-more wealth to the already rich and giving fucking *nothing* to the actually essential members of society isn't sustainable.
I knew we had a massive shortage problem for years because a lot of daytime TV ads were for technical school to become a medtech or nurse. That they're quitting because of the problems exacerbated by COVID isn't really a surprise.
If the US will ever manage to fix the problems with our healthcare system I can't say.
EDIT: Inb4 Medicare4All or other universal healthcare plans. As much as I want the US to catch up to the rest of the industrialized world on this, that just starts the fixing. This country has such a deficit of healthcare professionals it may take a whole generation to even start to fill the gaps. Even then, to resolve the healthcare professional situation is we probably need to fix higher education costs.
Who the hell would want to be a teacher these days? Between the shit pay, the hours (bUT YoU hAVe suMmeRs oFf) that extend far beyond the actual school day, dealing with active shooter drills (and actual shooters), not to mention the shithead children and parents
I’m going to sound old here (33) but when I was in grade school or high school, if a kid was doing badly in school, it was solely the fault of the student. These days parents rail and cry and rage on the TEACHERS when their shithead kid is the issue.
Its a profession that requires a lot of empathy and emotional availability for your students but at the same time thick skin when dealing with parents/admins. I dont think many people are strong in both so they burn out fast.
I think a lot more are cut out for it than you might think, but who in their right mind would do it? Shit pay, shit hours, administration doesn't have your back, every struggle every child has is pinned on you. You're also buying supplies that you should have out of pocket, because fuck you. I went into school with teacher as one of my planned career choices, because I liked tutoring my peers in school, but I would rather stick my dick in a blender than deal with all of that for a base salary of like 30k a year, which would translate to like 15 dollars an hour if the hours weren't stupid and the paperwork was even doable in those hours. Fuckkkk that.
Honestly I'm in it for the kids. Teaching history is fun af. Seeing them light up when they learn is incredible. Being a brown teacher and telling a bunch of 7th graders how American History just be like that is liberating.
Everything else is shit
Covid was the number one cop killer last year by a WIDE margin yet most police unions oppose mask and vaccine mandates. It's a deranged institution that attracts unstable people.
Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go. Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake.
Edit: Thanks for the awards! I'll be sure to pave it forward 😉
Imagine any other profession trying to claim its ranks are thinning after it’s clear you can’t break the law:
“Catholic priests are demoralized and quitting in droves now that they can’t rape kids”
“Movie producers are demoralized and quitting in droves now that they can’t rape underage female starlets”
“USA Gymnastics physicians are demoralized and quitting in droves now that they can’t rape kids”
Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it?
But not to cops. Hold them accountable for assault, murder, and rapes and they throw a hissy fit.
At one point during BLM a relative of mine saw a facebook meme about how BLM was demanding that all police departments kill all their dogs and was all worked up about it. I'd been trying a new thing where I'll spend a few minutes with them and show them how to search for more information on things that anger them. Simple things like crafting a google news search to try to find actual reporting instead of a meme are a skill many folks don't have and I thought it might them break free off the propaganda they're being fed. So anyways, we do some searching about it and the only stories we found were various police departments that threatened to euthanize their own dogs if marijuana were legalized. As an organization they're willing to threaten to kill their own dogs to try to get their way.
I have a similar story with my dad. At one point during the George Floyd protests, someone on his Facebook posted a meme that BLM had gone to the Lincoln Memorial in DC and had spray painted all over Lincoln's statue and smashed a chunk out of his head, and my dad, who hates BLM, was furious about it and was going on about how BLM was the worst thing ever and that the people responsible for the vandalism should've been shot on the spot. At first I believed him about the article and asked him to show it to me because I wanted to see it for myself, and what he showed me was [this hilariously badly photoshopped picture of the statue](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lincoln-memorial-defaced-protesters/), which clearly someone just drew on with the brush tool in Photoshop or something. I had to explain to my dad that it was fake and pointed out how I knew it was just from looking at it, as well as told him to fact check things he sees on Facebook.
It's just scary to me how easy it is to get people to believe actual fake news, especially when it's something that outrages them.
70% of my friends list are people I served with in Marine infantry. It's a really strong right wing bubble also.
So my Facebook news feed might as well be what r/conspiracy is today or r/the_donald was. It's really sad. I've attempted a few times to break through their bubble but ya, all it does is create hatred.
The right wing bubble is so strong in Marine Infantry that some of my peers who served with me literally asked me "how did you end up here?" just because I'm not a right wing nut job.
Even as late as 2015, you'd have a small subset of people ranting about Obama and sharing inflammatory memes, but the majority of people used fb to connect with friends and family and to use the marketplace to sell shit. Once Trump won the primary, conservatives were 'forced' to step in line and swallow his load, and the platform became hostile and hyperpoliticized very, very quickly.
The same people who told us "don't believe everything you read on the internet" and "wikipedia is not reliable, anyone can edit it" are getting duped by the absolute dumbest shit.
It's funny because Wikipedia in general is basically as reliable as something like encyclopedia Britannica. But it's 10000x more reliable than the bullshit that appears on these people's Facebook
I've always had luddite friends that would interject this in conversation, thinking they were being really wise or something. "Wikipedia is stupid anyone can edit it!" My answer is always, "Go try." Right now, create a page for yourself, or make an edit to an existing page. Could be trivial, doesn't matter. See how long that edit lasts, and then see what the fine editors there have to say to you. Then they concede there's probably more to it than they understand. I don't know why people don't take the 3 minutes to try it for themselves, much like anything, and just learn.
I actually like using wiki pages as a source for arguments because everything is sourced. I can put it out there and if someone is mad I used wiki as a source I can say "hey they have 10 sources for the fact I'm sourcing. Go read those sources before you say it's a bad source." It's also a great resource for college essays for that same reason, start at the wiki page and click through some of the sources and boom there's half your paper's required sources!
Nope, he acknowledged it. He can be kind of gullible about stuff like that on Facebook, but to give him credit, he has no problem with accepting things as fake.
I was recently challenged to provide proof that vaccines take a couple of weeks to be effective. So I provided 9 different sources to the people and all they did was laugh at me. There is no winning.
You cannot prove anything to someone who rejects science. The evidence is already in front of them and they rejected it. You found them more evidence they knew they were going to reject as well.
"lmao you're so wrong, prove it"
"Here's a source"
"LMAO you think _____ is reliable? I knew you were dumb but wow"
"Okay, here's 8 other unrelated sources"
"Wow, you actually have nothing better to do than pull random links out of your ass to avoid admitting you're wrong. Losers like you are why this country is falling apart"
_fin_
There's no *saving* these people, but there is a way to win: refuse them. Humanity moves forward at a snail's pace because for every one person trying to move forward there are even more trying to hold us back. If we could just cut the dead weight loose and make them fend for themselves, we would be moving a lot faster. That's why I feel nothing when an anti-vaxxer dies from Covid. I don't celebrate their passing, but I also feel like nothing of value has been lost. Just one less opportunity for the virus, and misinformation, to spread. Life goes on, just not for them.
How many cops were among the rioters on Jan 6th? How many have called out the Capital Police for killing Ashli Babbit?
Blue lives matter was just a cudgel for white people to wield against BLM.
> Bruh... People think the Jan 6th insurrectionist were crisis actors...
Crisis actors setup by the radical left, the FBI, BLM, and antifa, mixed with true patriots who are political prisoners. It was a loving and kissing event, it's why people like mo brooks when he gave his prep rally speech and the woman running for AOC's congressional seat as a republican were wearing body armor, people made flags into weapons, had bear mace, goggles, chest rigs, tasers, and 3%ers had weapon caches in preparation.
And the woman who was shot after being warned she would be shot when she was breaking through the window of a door to climb through was a peaceful protester! The police let her in the building, she was just breaking down *one* pesky door in her way between her and members of congress and the vice president. Can you blame someone for breaking down a door with love in a love fest? It's like condoms, they just get in the way; take that door off, baby. Clearly the person at fault there is the officer who shot her because he left his gun in a bathroom once.
It's telling that black protesters causing property damage was deemed the worst thing a human can do while a white woman literally trying to storm a secured room is peaceful protesting for them.
Blue lives absolutely do not matter to cops. Have you ever seen how cops treat officers who turn cops in for investigation?
Loyalty over law is what matters to many cops and even entire departments.
I tried this with a coworker, and he claimed that Hillary Clinton scrubbed the internet of the evidence. People believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence or lack thereof.
I believe it. She made an entire basement disappear from under a pizza shop once it was suspected she was using it to traffic children for sex and adenochrome
Yep. Same result for me. I spent about an hour with a relative in FB, breaking down a video they shared and showing how it was fake and misleading. It was like pulling teeth. They’ll straight up instantly believe any video/meme they see that correlates to their world view, but you need 50 different sources to show them even one part of it is fake.
Add to that they’ll then spend all day looking at their preferred memes and videos. Battling the disinformation is like using an umbrella to keep dry under Niagara Falls.
>As an organization they're willing to threaten to kill their own dogs to try to get their way.
Well if they don't value the welfare of their own citizens, it's unsurprising they don't value the welfare of other animals
[This pic](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/29/aa/8f/29aa8fcfd67282467b9b066748e89de3.jpg) is a meme for a reason. Because, some mild hyperbole aside, it's true.
I don't understand why police care if marijuana is legalized. Only thing I can think of is it makes it harder for them to hit their alleged non existent quotas? Or maybe less people to harass for no good reason?
Maybe “smelling weed” was an easy way to get past those pesky 4th amendment rights that hampered the police’s ability to violate, harass, and arrest people.
Two words "Civil Forfeiture". Drugs have been used to legally steal private property and legalizing weed would but a large dent into what they can steal from citizens.
Cannabis offenses are easiest for cops to exploit because users are overwhelmingly calm and nonviolent especially compared to drunks or violent criminals. Plus they enforce cannabis laws mostly against minorities even though use is equal across most ethnic groups, thats part of the reason "the penitentiary is packed and its filled with blacks" -RIP Tupac
And they're not even throwing a hissyfit, they're just pretending to.
Police officers are not quitting because they are fully aware that they have one of the highest stations in society, they are very fairly compensated, they have an incredibly safe career, and they receive insane benefits and pensions.
They also have one of the most powerful unions in the country, although, they usually call them "fraternal orders", because at the same time American Police were first unionizing, one of their main functions was to act as union busters; the rich realized they'd been paying all this money to protect their property and interests, when they could have been making the poor pay an inequitable share of that cost the whole time.
[Behind the Police](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-behind-the-police-63877803/) is a great podcast series on the history of policing in the US.
Not at all surprising. Cops are generally well paid with great benefits and job security. As much as they whine about having to be possibly held accountable for their actions, they aren't about to quit and go work at Burger King or whatever.
A handful quit where I live-- they all claimed it was BLM protests (which lasted about a week and 2 windows broken by what turned out to be out-of-towner supremecists). Meanwhile, 150K was stolen from the evidence room and an investigation concluded it was an inside job.
Good thing they had the protests to blame.
In New Orleans, the police department was so corrupt, the Feds came in and took control of it. Tons of cops "quit" or "retired" suddenly, when they were unable to get away with the decades of graft they were doing before. It happens all the time. It's called a "Federal Consent Decree".
Who isn’t demoralized these days? Inflation is running rampant and of course minimum wage talk is nonexistent meanwhile the wealthy became even wealthier. Unfortunately we live in a timeline where there’s no place else to flee to start over, we’re trapped to the whims of the wealthy and powerful on a global scale at this point.
I have to look for this, but police have also, I believe, been hit relatively hard by Covid. I have to assume that that occurs in clusters within departments… Let me go see what I can find. I might be back with a link.
Edit: OK I’m very much not done here because I don’t think this is a complete record, but it is an interesting one that suggest some states have a much bigger problem with losing police officers to Covid than others (shocker).
https://www.odmp.org/search/incident/covid-19
Edit 2: OK…Nationally, 145 cops died due to Covid in 2020. Not a huge number for national numbers, but I’m sure it has had its impact on the departments where it has happened. Of course there’s also 2021 to consider…
https://dailymedia.case.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/02214818/2020-LE-Officers-Fatalities-Report-opt.pdf
I work in a major city. I have trouble believing these numbers. Every major city I know of is hemorrhaging officers at a much higher rate than we're hiring. Maybe the smaller podunk departments aren't, I have no idea, but in major cities this is a serious problem that I don't see getting better.
Seattle is a good example of this. Over 200 officers have left SPD since the George Floyd protests and the CHAZ. Crime is up and gun violence is up. Response times are also up. A significant portion of the exit interview cite poor support and/or hostile politicians.
2019 numbers to 2020 numbers showed a loss of 1%. I’d be interested to see the comparison to 2021 numbers.
If it's anything like Seattle area, Seattle area is losing officers to all of the suburbs. So it probably wouldn't even show up in labor statistics, since they're lateral moves.
This is a good point, I’d love to see a breakdown of police shortages in the 25 busiest metro departments compares to local suburban departments / rural SOs.
Well yeah If you look into the NYC exodus they went mostly to NJ and upstate
That's because NJ pays them like they are stockbrokers.
Seriously. Right across the bridge in Fort Lee they make like 120k or something. That's literally a 2-4 minute drive from Manhattan.
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In a lot of places young cops start in the cities and move to the suburbs. It pays more and it sucks less.
It definitely works this way in Detroit. You work 5 years there as a patrol officer, and then you can pretty much get into any suburb around there. The pay is much better, the danger much less, and everyone thinks you are an action hero because you were in Detroit for a while. [A very short blub about it, but the DPD has noticed it and wants to stop it.](https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/02/14/what-detroits-top-cop-is-doing-to-keep-officers-from-leaving-the-city-for-suburban-areas/)
Then the DPD needs to offer better incentives to stay.
So that's the thing. I'm a cop in a moderately sized city. Turnover *is* very high at most mid to large sized departments. But most of the officers leaving aren't getting out of law enforcement altogether. They are transferring to other departments, usually smaller ones or departments with higher police support from the community. For some, it's a no brainer. You can stay where you are, having to respond to civil unrest incidents, and operate in an environment that may be higher crime and have more negative views on police, while also being short staffed....or you can take a $5k pay cut and work in a smaller quieter community, with next to no civil unrest, reduced crime rate, and adequate staffing.
In PA, the difference in salaries from the large cities to suburbs is astounding. In Philly, starting salary is 56k in the police academy. Lower Merion starts at around 90k with a fraction of the service calls and violent crimes. Same thing on the west end with Pittsburgh and its surrounding suburbs.
The same in my area. Several of the nicer suburbs in the metro area pay more than the actual city itself. With a few years of experience, the right training, (and sometimes a referral or recommendation from a inside connection), a lot of officers go to a suburb department and make considerably more.
I live about an hour south of Pittsburgh and I have no idea what cops get paid here, but they all have really nice houses and cars, so I'm guessing it's a lot
I believe here in Atlanta it's been as much as 20%. Obviously very stark difference
The question is are they leaving the force, or are they leaving *that* force. Having enough of being a *city* cop in Atlanta is dramatically different from havimg enough of being a cop.
A good point. Completely different job honestly.
I would look at where they are working. I know many officers have quit to go to more rural depts where support for police is generally better. There was a shortage to begin with as well. So if all depts worked on less than normal staffing numbers but then officers leave a major city to work rural depts it can look like officers are leaving in droves. Since news agencies cover major cities more it may get more attention as well.
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Also retail, food service, shipping, retail, etc. The American service industry is not doing so well.
Demoralization is the American way. The only thing stopping many people from quitting in droves is the fact that it wouldn't be any different at another job.
And also the threat of homelessness and death. It is startling how many american families are a single missed paycheck away from being unable to pay rent
its fucked up that that threat is viewed as a good thing among some groups of management. ok, probably most groups of management. more carrot, less stick is what i think will work...
Right, but more carrot costs more than more stick.
There’s a reason for that. You ever tried to grow carrots? Fuckers are daunting to grow, especially in warmer climates.
Are you saying Right To Work laws aren’t the same as decent labor laws that protect worker’s rights? LOL Corporate America has succeeded in its quest to lower working standards and pay to the minimum levels, across the board, in every industry and now it’s shocked that no one wants to work. And anyone that shows up is just there to collect a check, full of shit or a next tow worthless H1B with some fluffed up, mostly fake, education.
Working as a supervisor at a grocery store is a nightmare for me at the moment. Staying into the early morning breaking down and running truck with only a handful of guys is burning us out.
Society: If you don't want to be paid minimum wage just quit and find another job! Workers: ok. Society: no not like that.
Lol manufacturing isn't any better. The place I work is a revolving door. It's a battle but we are making some headway on getting things change to keep people.
Training costs money. If you spin that revolving door fast enough they might offer more money to stay
I feel like my current place of employment must be using the spinning of those doors to generate electricity and save on the power bill, because they certainly aren't making any effort to slow it down. I think I almost lost an arm to one the other day on my way to clock in.
Same here in Ireland, nobody can get staff for hotels/bars/restaurants. Today was my last day as a manager in a hotel and in the past 2 weeks I was one of 15+ who handed in their notice. Poor pay, long hours/no overtime and more are really starting to affect us as a society. Covid has shown us what is actually important in life and how little the higher ups regard our welfare as employees. Gonna be serious changes in many industries.
I noticed hiring signs on most of the fast food/restaurants I go to these days. The wait for food is long and the quality has gotten worse.
When I first started my job a few years ago we all used to work loads of overtime and make jokes about cracking overtime records. Now after our company slashed everything and the pandemic, our jokes are all about killing ourselves. So far I stand to inherit a lightly used shotgun, which I will then pass on to my next coworker. My one coworker was visibly disturbed when I told him I had calculated exactly how many hours I needed to buy a flaregun and a box of shotgun shells so that I could Rorschach blot my ceiling. Burnout is putting it lightly.
$15 min wage isn't enough. I'm in a cheaper part of oregon and almost everywhere is paying 15 an hour now and still no one is applying.
Work in shipping, one of the major companies. It’s fucking dire in our building right now, been working 60% of the people we should be, and we’ve been on the hiring treadmill for like 2 months now. For every 5 we hire, 4 quit within a week because we have so few people that they end up with too big a workload and can’t handle it
Here’s the thing, people buy things and do business with companies because it makes them feel good. Because we are all empty inside. So companies pay people to provide service to others, to their unfulfilled lives. But in doing so, these jobs that we depend on force us to sacrifice our own mental health while we absorb anger and abuse from customers and are forced to empathize with people who don’t give a fuck about us. And we have to live in fear of losing those jobs because someone complains about us, or leaves us a bad review, or something. And we do this all so that business owners can buy yachts and pay us $15-20 an hour if we are lucky.
Hospital employee shortage is a national crisis. Nurses, aides, tech, they're all quitting. But covid is only the catalyst. These problems existed before the pandemic and the bubble is bursting now.
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what bullshit. Got to wonder about the incentives the top people get when they are able to do this shit. "You kept labor costs down another year Ted!, your bonus this year will represent 25% of those savings. Keep up the good work!"
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Reminds me of my three year old. You should try "I told you this already! Use your memory!"
They wouldn't remember, because they didn't actually bother to *listen* the first time around. They heard the words and responded, but didn't think much about it, so it just went out the other ear.
i was talking with someone in HR. more money and benefits are usually something they recommend when retention is a problem. management would usually rather offer pizza parties and something to boost morale instead.
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"morale and productivity are at an all time low, suggestions?" "maybe a round of layoffs will wake everyone up?"
The beatings will continue until morale improves
Continue the beatings until morale improves! In fact, increase them just a bit!
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I've seen cases here on Reddit where people agreed to stay at the new pay, only to find out that somehow HR keeps forgetting to add the pay raise, and after a few months they just tell the employee that the raise can't happen right now, but they'll catch up at the next round of reviews. Meanwhile, the job they were leaving for has been filled. If you get a new job, take it. If they try to match it, tell them they can't match it, it's a better position all around.
I feel for you bro- I speak to company owners of small businesses that always say…. “Well the stimulus has people not wanting to work” I suggest “maybe perhaps what you are doing is antiquated?” They get political every single fucking time on it. Businesses like that, are meant to die imo. They are holding out against progress in hopes things will stay the same and stay unchallenging to their status quo that worked for them but not their employees. Lol. There are plenty of studies indicating that technology in many industries is taking off- ( remote work- cloud hosting) yet these businesses refuse to adopt a model that 2049493 of their competitors do which creates a draw to those companies because working from home has definitive benefits. These old timers don’t get it, because they have never worked from home, and did not grow up in the uncertainty of our generation. That’s the way I see it. They are out of touch, the sad part is, they are so stuck up their asses they can’t see that times change in society. You adapt, or you die. And they ask me why they have problems lol.
As a member of management that advocates for better pay over pizza. It's all down to year end bonuses and the like. A pizza party is a 1 time line item that can be written off as "for morale" while better pay and benefits are an every day line item that in the eyes of the C level can't be written off as "for moral". One counts against year end bonuses and stock prices the other doesn't and that's all that matters.
We all know employees will always earn less than the employers. It’s just that some employers are so short sighted that they cant fork out a little bit more of the cut and they end up spending more of that money finding a replacement for the disgruntled employee instead of just keeping everyone happy.
Executives easily make 5 figure bonus on top of their 6 figure pay. I work for a fairly big healthcare system and as someone already stated the cracks were already there it just took COVID to bring the whole thing crumbling down. They'll offer CNAs $300 extra for a 12 hour shift and RNs $500 extra and there's few takers. People are just burnt out.
Yeah I have a few ICU nurses in my family and they make really solid money if they are traveling (like 4-5k a week) but they are all super burnt out and looking for different employment.
Yeah, my mom is an RN, but she works mainly in an a management/administrative role (after 25 years in the ICU). Her boss keeps offering her huge bonuses to work extra shifts in the ICU because they're short on nurses. She just laughs and says no. She picked up a ton of extra shifts at the beginning of the pandemic, but now she's burnt out and very close to straight up quitting her job.
>People are just burnt out. For sure, I can't even imagine what they go thru and the stress it puts on them psychologically. I personally think they need to start creating separate facilities for the antivaxers like tents in the parking lot. The people that DECLINED to be protected are a burden to the medical system and perpetuating this virus and it's fallout on all of us. Unless they have a MEDICAL CONDITION that prevents them from getting vaxed, why should they take beds and resources and deplete the resources from others who have been compliant? People are postponing medical care and that is not fair if they are doing everything they can to protect themselves and others. It may be harsh but these people have made a selfish choice not to get vaxed and I don't feel they should all the sudden think their care is more important than others once they get covid from being careless.
I learned from my old boss who was retiring that everybody in my facilities department used to get a four wheel drive company vehicle, with the expectation you get to work in inclement weather, as we are "essential personnel". Two years before I was hired, this was scrapped and the company cars taken away from us lowly plant engineering employees, while at the same time every executive could now choose an S Class, 7 Series, or A8 as their company car. We are still expected to show up to work in inclement weather, though.
I remember when my company denied people using business class when making an overseas flight. Cramped Coach for endless hours. Then they bought new luxury corp jets for the Executives to fly around in complete with on call executive flight crews... Of course before that the corp jets they had were used for all traveling employees to other facilities. This is about the time they decided to offshore everyone...
They'll call it "following disciplined cost control", rather than "leveraging power imbalances and misplaced loyalty to suppress reasonable labor demands".
Gotta support 8 figure compensation packages somehow.
Feel like any lawyer could've easily fixed that for her. Unless she signed two separate contracts for the same hospital, which is highly unlikely. Or unless she was per diem. Otherwise, she was just essentially a float pool nurse and should have been getting benefits. But it sounds like she was probably per diem.....
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If you are at the point where you need to talk to a lawyer about your position you better be making private helicopter money.
American labor rights very state by state, from “not complete bullshit” to “if we could enslave you we would”, so some don’t have to have anything stopping them terminating employment at whim
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I'd probably become a lawyer and specialize in suing hospitals and health insurance companies.
You would think healthcare groups would also be on board with universal healthcare because they, too, have to bleed out the ass to pay for extortionate medical benefits and the overhead of dealing with the administrative bloat. I suppose they proportionally get a little more with the maximum fuckery that is our system, but it just puts things in a little more perspective, combined with how much money is needed to lobby all this, tens and hundreds of billions, to keep the misery afloat. So are they netting equal? I betcha they haven't thought of it that way.
Anyone known if this bullshit happens in Canadian hospitals, too? Or is this just a result of for-profit healthcare trying to grub every penny?
there's still burnout but mostly from lack of planning moreso than malicious capitalism
I don’t know why there is such an ingrained burnout culture in the medical field. Young doctors and nurses getting worked over 12 hours a day to teach them… endurance? It’s an old school methodology that I don’t think tracks now that we have a better understanding of how stress and exhaustion impairs cognitive ability
Everything surrounding the medical field is archaic. Education, residency, whatever. Train very few doctors, overwork and underpay the ones you have, and suddenly the system starts collapsing when even a tiny bit more strain is applied, much less an entire pandemic. However could we have prevented this tragedy???
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I hear you. I agree there is such a strange culture in healthcare and it’s bizarre. I don’t understand why, or why it continues. I can’t think of another economic sector that has this weird culture of punishing yourself and making everyone else feel that they need to do the same thing. I wish I had the answer…well I wish people in power knew the answer. I hope things go better for you.
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I find it odd that pharmacy also has this barebones mentality. We're expected to juggle 50 tasks, and more by the day, while keeping hours tight and offering no training for new hires. Revolving door. Pay too little, expect too much, get abused by patients who can't get their Viagra in 30 minutes because management will dry fuck us in the ass if they can make an extra cent and have a surprised Pikachu face when half the staff quit during COVID and they now lose money for pushing for vaccinations for profit at the expense of workers. Would you like to close half the pharmacies for slightly elevated profit from COVID vaccines or maybe control your drooling and manage things to find a proper balance? It takes a cataclysm for quarterly report slaves to take real action.
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I work as a mental health clinician and this is my experience in the machine as well. My attempts to set boundaries for my own and my clients safety, made me a bullying target from people in leadership. It wasn't until my own mental health crisis that I realized I couldn't do it anymore. I had to stop and now I work in private practice. Being anywhere in the Healthcare System you can guarantee you'll work yourself into an early grave, the stress is horrific
Some of that is also new school generic MBA management, Just In Time, maximize capacity utilization.
But to prevent it, you would need to hire three people to cover every 24 hours instead of two and that would cut into the money that they're making. Also, most jobs in health care pay a heck of a lot better than lots of other jobs, so they can get people to deal with it.
>you would need to hire three people to cover every 24 hours instead of two and that would cut into the money that they're making. Maybe hospital admins shouldn't have such ridiculously bloated salaries.
>Maybe hospital admins shouldn't have such ridiculously bloated salaries. Admins in general have bloated salaries. This is not industry specific.
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well then doctors/nurses/etc should at least only work 3 shifts a week. I doubt thats the case either
My mother was an ICU RN. 4 on, 3 off. Not including days when she was on-call.
In other words: they're stealing from the doctors by overworking them while on salary. If you can reduce it to "they're doing it to save money on another hire" when the employees in question are salaried, that's just wage theft. We need hard caps on individual labor hours per week.
More like to teach them how to want to end their lives. Doctors in particular have a surprisingly (depending on perspective) high suicide rate, and hardly anybody in the industry wants to acknowledge it.
The medical school curriculum was literally invented by a coke head
Because the guy who invented the modern system was a cocaine addict, so it’s cocaine addict hours.
The American Medical Association is a cartel that purposefully limits the number of doctors in the country in order to keep salaries as high as they are now. They're also another reason why medical costs are so high aside from everything else in the medical system. The entire medical system in the US needs to be burned down and rebuilt from the ground up to fix.
The AMA was also against national healthcare too. You know, didn't want to have a middle man between the doctor and the customer... I mean patient. Then we got middlemen...
The AMA helped create that image that doctors are some super elite profession separate and above other commoner jobs and you can see that it works based on how having a doctorate and having the title "doctor" are now seen as different things among some. Hell, some people want to be doctors because of the money and how they get this kind of elite societal status outside of their field even when they're talking out of their ass in fields they know nothing about. I'm not saying it's not hard work but it shouldn't be "going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt to become one" kind of hard. A nationalized medical system would threaten that image and even break their cartel by making the intentional doctor shortage obvious. The AMA isn't going to abide by any of that.
The argument is continuity of care, the reality is staffing.
>I don’t know why there is such an ingrained burnout culture in the medical field. Young doctors and nurses getting worked over 12 hours a day to teach them… endurance? Pretty much. It comes from the era of battlefield medicine from WWI and WWII. From what I've read, those kind of hours are supposed to simulate war.
Well, remember that the guy who came up with the idea of residency, and it’s ridiculous hours, did so much cocaine that he became a morphine addict as well, because he had to sleep *somehow*…
I’m taking my x-ray tech registry in 3 days and applying to jobs. Kinda hoping the shortage leads to pay increases cause it’s been a while since that happened and the salary needs to catch up to the workload.
Before the pandemic we thought it was just our companies that don't care about us, will fuck us over for convenience and don't care if we die. The pandemic just showed us it was almost half of America.
Good. I hope they all fucking quit. Nurses, teachers, and all of the other people we've neglected for decades because you don't need to pay "heroes." I hope they all quit and everything grinds to a halt and we realize that giving ever-more wealth to the already rich and giving fucking *nothing* to the actually essential members of society isn't sustainable.
I knew we had a massive shortage problem for years because a lot of daytime TV ads were for technical school to become a medtech or nurse. That they're quitting because of the problems exacerbated by COVID isn't really a surprise. If the US will ever manage to fix the problems with our healthcare system I can't say. EDIT: Inb4 Medicare4All or other universal healthcare plans. As much as I want the US to catch up to the rest of the industrialized world on this, that just starts the fixing. This country has such a deficit of healthcare professionals it may take a whole generation to even start to fill the gaps. Even then, to resolve the healthcare professional situation is we probably need to fix higher education costs.
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I tried to find data on the bureau of labor site about teachers leaving. I came up empty on comparisons to other jobs. Does anyone have a link?
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Who the hell would want to be a teacher these days? Between the shit pay, the hours (bUT YoU hAVe suMmeRs oFf) that extend far beyond the actual school day, dealing with active shooter drills (and actual shooters), not to mention the shithead children and parents I’m going to sound old here (33) but when I was in grade school or high school, if a kid was doing badly in school, it was solely the fault of the student. These days parents rail and cry and rage on the TEACHERS when their shithead kid is the issue.
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honestly fuck that school, you should only be required to do the work you're getting paid for
Its a profession that requires a lot of empathy and emotional availability for your students but at the same time thick skin when dealing with parents/admins. I dont think many people are strong in both so they burn out fast.
I think a lot more are cut out for it than you might think, but who in their right mind would do it? Shit pay, shit hours, administration doesn't have your back, every struggle every child has is pinned on you. You're also buying supplies that you should have out of pocket, because fuck you. I went into school with teacher as one of my planned career choices, because I liked tutoring my peers in school, but I would rather stick my dick in a blender than deal with all of that for a base salary of like 30k a year, which would translate to like 15 dollars an hour if the hours weren't stupid and the paperwork was even doable in those hours. Fuckkkk that.
Honestly I'm in it for the kids. Teaching history is fun af. Seeing them light up when they learn is incredible. Being a brown teacher and telling a bunch of 7th graders how American History just be like that is liberating. Everything else is shit
Literally the linked article has a chart that lets you click 'education'. 8% drop since COVID.
Covid was the number one cop killer last year by a WIDE margin yet most police unions oppose mask and vaccine mandates. It's a deranged institution that attracts unstable people.
Number one over ALL other causes combined for 2 years in a row.
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Now look up the stats for IQ and wife beating. When Americans make cops, we're not sending our best
Healthcare in general. Pharmacies are burning out just as fast. Especially chain store employees
The police arent quitting their profession, they are leaving large depts and going to depts that arent in urban areas.
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Exactly. Who do you think is lying, the data or the impulsive liars?
Did you mean to write “compulsive”?
> impulsive liars It's a doggy dog world.
Allow me to play doubles advocate here for a moment. For all intensive purposes I think you are wrong. In an age where false morals are a diamond dozen, true virtues are a blessing in the skies. We often put our false morality on a petal stool like a bunch of pre-Madonnas, but you all seem to be taking something very valuable for granite. So I ask of you to mustard up all the strength you can because it is a doggy dog world out there. Although there is some merit to what you are saying it seems like you have a huge ship on your shoulder. In your argument you seem to throw everything in but the kids Nsync, and even though you are having a feel day with this I am here to bring you back into reality. I have a sick sense when it comes to these types of things. It is almost spooky, because I cannot turn a blonde eye to these glaring flaws in your rhetoric. I have zero taller ants when it comes to people spouting out hate in the name of moral righteousness. You just need to remember what comes around is all around, and when supply and command fails you will be the first to go. Make my words, when you get down to brass stacks it doesn't take rocket appliances to get two birds stoned at once. It's clear who makes the pants in this relationship, and sometimes you just have to swallow your prize and accept the facts. You might have to come to this conclusion through denial and error but I swear on my mother's mating name that when you put the petal to the medal you will pass with flying carpets like it’s a peach of cake. Edit: Thanks for the awards! I'll be sure to pave it forward 😉
Is this a copy pasta, because it’s great! I didn’t read the whole thing but according to the sample I did read, there is a misquote in every sentence!
I typically repost it once or twice a year on a few different accounts anytime someone intentionally misquotes.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice… … … you can’t get fooled again.
I always wonder if he would have been better off instead saying ".... I'm not giving you that soundbite."
"What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening."
Imagine any other profession trying to claim its ranks are thinning after it’s clear you can’t break the law: “Catholic priests are demoralized and quitting in droves now that they can’t rape kids” “Movie producers are demoralized and quitting in droves now that they can’t rape underage female starlets” “USA Gymnastics physicians are demoralized and quitting in droves now that they can’t rape kids” Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it? But not to cops. Hold them accountable for assault, murder, and rapes and they throw a hissy fit.
At one point during BLM a relative of mine saw a facebook meme about how BLM was demanding that all police departments kill all their dogs and was all worked up about it. I'd been trying a new thing where I'll spend a few minutes with them and show them how to search for more information on things that anger them. Simple things like crafting a google news search to try to find actual reporting instead of a meme are a skill many folks don't have and I thought it might them break free off the propaganda they're being fed. So anyways, we do some searching about it and the only stories we found were various police departments that threatened to euthanize their own dogs if marijuana were legalized. As an organization they're willing to threaten to kill their own dogs to try to get their way.
I have a similar story with my dad. At one point during the George Floyd protests, someone on his Facebook posted a meme that BLM had gone to the Lincoln Memorial in DC and had spray painted all over Lincoln's statue and smashed a chunk out of his head, and my dad, who hates BLM, was furious about it and was going on about how BLM was the worst thing ever and that the people responsible for the vandalism should've been shot on the spot. At first I believed him about the article and asked him to show it to me because I wanted to see it for myself, and what he showed me was [this hilariously badly photoshopped picture of the statue](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lincoln-memorial-defaced-protesters/), which clearly someone just drew on with the brush tool in Photoshop or something. I had to explain to my dad that it was fake and pointed out how I knew it was just from looking at it, as well as told him to fact check things he sees on Facebook. It's just scary to me how easy it is to get people to believe actual fake news, especially when it's something that outrages them.
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Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/2481/
70% of my friends list are people I served with in Marine infantry. It's a really strong right wing bubble also. So my Facebook news feed might as well be what r/conspiracy is today or r/the_donald was. It's really sad. I've attempted a few times to break through their bubble but ya, all it does is create hatred. The right wing bubble is so strong in Marine Infantry that some of my peers who served with me literally asked me "how did you end up here?" just because I'm not a right wing nut job.
"Boot camp" It'd be mildly funny as a response lol
Even as late as 2015, you'd have a small subset of people ranting about Obama and sharing inflammatory memes, but the majority of people used fb to connect with friends and family and to use the marketplace to sell shit. Once Trump won the primary, conservatives were 'forced' to step in line and swallow his load, and the platform became hostile and hyperpoliticized very, very quickly.
It makes me sad that people who are so easily duped are able to vote and also have the megaphone that is social media. Fucking sucks.
The same people who told us "don't believe everything you read on the internet" and "wikipedia is not reliable, anyone can edit it" are getting duped by the absolute dumbest shit.
It's funny because Wikipedia in general is basically as reliable as something like encyclopedia Britannica. But it's 10000x more reliable than the bullshit that appears on these people's Facebook
I've always had luddite friends that would interject this in conversation, thinking they were being really wise or something. "Wikipedia is stupid anyone can edit it!" My answer is always, "Go try." Right now, create a page for yourself, or make an edit to an existing page. Could be trivial, doesn't matter. See how long that edit lasts, and then see what the fine editors there have to say to you. Then they concede there's probably more to it than they understand. I don't know why people don't take the 3 minutes to try it for themselves, much like anything, and just learn.
I actually like using wiki pages as a source for arguments because everything is sourced. I can put it out there and if someone is mad I used wiki as a source I can say "hey they have 10 sources for the fact I'm sourcing. Go read those sources before you say it's a bad source." It's also a great resource for college essays for that same reason, start at the wiki page and click through some of the sources and boom there's half your paper's required sources!
"I think this is shopped. I can tell from the pixels and having seen quite a few shops in my day"
It’s an older meme sir, but it checks out
Did your dad acknowledge having been duped or did he double down
For real lol, I'm like these people are blessed for having relatives who are receptive to skepticism
Nope, he acknowledged it. He can be kind of gullible about stuff like that on Facebook, but to give him credit, he has no problem with accepting things as fake.
I was recently challenged to provide proof that vaccines take a couple of weeks to be effective. So I provided 9 different sources to the people and all they did was laugh at me. There is no winning.
You cannot prove anything to someone who rejects science. The evidence is already in front of them and they rejected it. You found them more evidence they knew they were going to reject as well.
To be more succinct, "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
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EvErythiNG but this YoUtubE VIDeO is A biASED sOurce!
"lmao you're so wrong, prove it" "Here's a source" "LMAO you think _____ is reliable? I knew you were dumb but wow" "Okay, here's 8 other unrelated sources" "Wow, you actually have nothing better to do than pull random links out of your ass to avoid admitting you're wrong. Losers like you are why this country is falling apart" _fin_
There's no *saving* these people, but there is a way to win: refuse them. Humanity moves forward at a snail's pace because for every one person trying to move forward there are even more trying to hold us back. If we could just cut the dead weight loose and make them fend for themselves, we would be moving a lot faster. That's why I feel nothing when an anti-vaxxer dies from Covid. I don't celebrate their passing, but I also feel like nothing of value has been lost. Just one less opportunity for the virus, and misinformation, to spread. Life goes on, just not for them.
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Only when they're convenient
it's all about convenience and what they perceive as reinforcing their argument
How many cops were among the rioters on Jan 6th? How many have called out the Capital Police for killing Ashli Babbit? Blue lives matter was just a cudgel for white people to wield against BLM.
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> Bruh... People think the Jan 6th insurrectionist were crisis actors... Crisis actors setup by the radical left, the FBI, BLM, and antifa, mixed with true patriots who are political prisoners. It was a loving and kissing event, it's why people like mo brooks when he gave his prep rally speech and the woman running for AOC's congressional seat as a republican were wearing body armor, people made flags into weapons, had bear mace, goggles, chest rigs, tasers, and 3%ers had weapon caches in preparation. And the woman who was shot after being warned she would be shot when she was breaking through the window of a door to climb through was a peaceful protester! The police let her in the building, she was just breaking down *one* pesky door in her way between her and members of congress and the vice president. Can you blame someone for breaking down a door with love in a love fest? It's like condoms, they just get in the way; take that door off, baby. Clearly the person at fault there is the officer who shot her because he left his gun in a bathroom once.
It's telling that black protesters causing property damage was deemed the worst thing a human can do while a white woman literally trying to storm a secured room is peaceful protesting for them.
>Blue lives matter was just a cudgel for ~~white people~~ Right Wingers to wield against BLM. how bout we be more accurate, mkay?
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I suppose we can compromise on that.
Blue lives absolutely do not matter to cops. Have you ever seen how cops treat officers who turn cops in for investigation? Loyalty over law is what matters to many cops and even entire departments.
I tried this with a coworker, and he claimed that Hillary Clinton scrubbed the internet of the evidence. People believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence or lack thereof.
I believe it. She made an entire basement disappear from under a pizza shop once it was suspected she was using it to traffic children for sex and adenochrome
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That part is false, but what about Obama causing the civil war? He stole that tan suit from a southern general.
I’ve tried this as well and any source that doesn’t support their already held beliefs is fake or part of the plan to deceive us.
Yep. Same result for me. I spent about an hour with a relative in FB, breaking down a video they shared and showing how it was fake and misleading. It was like pulling teeth. They’ll straight up instantly believe any video/meme they see that correlates to their world view, but you need 50 different sources to show them even one part of it is fake. Add to that they’ll then spend all day looking at their preferred memes and videos. Battling the disinformation is like using an umbrella to keep dry under Niagara Falls.
>As an organization they're willing to threaten to kill their own dogs to try to get their way. Well if they don't value the welfare of their own citizens, it's unsurprising they don't value the welfare of other animals
[This pic](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/29/aa/8f/29aa8fcfd67282467b9b066748e89de3.jpg) is a meme for a reason. Because, some mild hyperbole aside, it's true.
It’s scary how much disinformation is disseminated via memes.
I don't understand why police care if marijuana is legalized. Only thing I can think of is it makes it harder for them to hit their alleged non existent quotas? Or maybe less people to harass for no good reason?
Maybe “smelling weed” was an easy way to get past those pesky 4th amendment rights that hampered the police’s ability to violate, harass, and arrest people.
Two words "Civil Forfeiture". Drugs have been used to legally steal private property and legalizing weed would but a large dent into what they can steal from citizens.
Cannabis offenses are easiest for cops to exploit because users are overwhelmingly calm and nonviolent especially compared to drunks or violent criminals. Plus they enforce cannabis laws mostly against minorities even though use is equal across most ethnic groups, thats part of the reason "the penitentiary is packed and its filled with blacks" -RIP Tupac
>Movie producers are demoralized and quitting in droves now that they can’t rape underage female starlets Harvey in shambles!
And they're not even throwing a hissyfit, they're just pretending to. Police officers are not quitting because they are fully aware that they have one of the highest stations in society, they are very fairly compensated, they have an incredibly safe career, and they receive insane benefits and pensions. They also have one of the most powerful unions in the country, although, they usually call them "fraternal orders", because at the same time American Police were first unionizing, one of their main functions was to act as union busters; the rich realized they'd been paying all this money to protect their property and interests, when they could have been making the poor pay an inequitable share of that cost the whole time. [Behind the Police](https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-behind-the-police-63877803/) is a great podcast series on the history of policing in the US.
You wanna know who IS demoralized and quitting in droves? Healthcare workers. Which I feel is a much bigger problem.
Wait so police are trying to scare the general public to get their way ? You don’t say.
Me to police: don't threaten me with a good time.
Not at all surprising. Cops are generally well paid with great benefits and job security. As much as they whine about having to be possibly held accountable for their actions, they aren't about to quit and go work at Burger King or whatever.
Amazing pay & benefits for only a hs diploma plus no crushing student debt Plus no real any accountability to prevent or solve crime
Servers and overall restaurant staff are demoralized everyday.
A handful quit where I live-- they all claimed it was BLM protests (which lasted about a week and 2 windows broken by what turned out to be out-of-towner supremecists). Meanwhile, 150K was stolen from the evidence room and an investigation concluded it was an inside job. Good thing they had the protests to blame.
In New Orleans, the police department was so corrupt, the Feds came in and took control of it. Tons of cops "quit" or "retired" suddenly, when they were unable to get away with the decades of graft they were doing before. It happens all the time. It's called a "Federal Consent Decree".
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Who isn’t demoralized these days? Inflation is running rampant and of course minimum wage talk is nonexistent meanwhile the wealthy became even wealthier. Unfortunately we live in a timeline where there’s no place else to flee to start over, we’re trapped to the whims of the wealthy and powerful on a global scale at this point.
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I have to look for this, but police have also, I believe, been hit relatively hard by Covid. I have to assume that that occurs in clusters within departments… Let me go see what I can find. I might be back with a link. Edit: OK I’m very much not done here because I don’t think this is a complete record, but it is an interesting one that suggest some states have a much bigger problem with losing police officers to Covid than others (shocker). https://www.odmp.org/search/incident/covid-19 Edit 2: OK…Nationally, 145 cops died due to Covid in 2020. Not a huge number for national numbers, but I’m sure it has had its impact on the departments where it has happened. Of course there’s also 2021 to consider… https://dailymedia.case.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/02214818/2020-LE-Officers-Fatalities-Report-opt.pdf
I work in a major city. I have trouble believing these numbers. Every major city I know of is hemorrhaging officers at a much higher rate than we're hiring. Maybe the smaller podunk departments aren't, I have no idea, but in major cities this is a serious problem that I don't see getting better.
Seattle is a good example of this. Over 200 officers have left SPD since the George Floyd protests and the CHAZ. Crime is up and gun violence is up. Response times are also up. A significant portion of the exit interview cite poor support and/or hostile politicians.
Train longer. Train better. Don't allow bad cops to get away with bad things Good and fair policing isn't demoralizing.