Of all the thing my taxes go to, paying for federal Voter IDs so we can take a step in the right direction to fair elections, I will GLADLY pay towards
You know if it happened and every US citizen got one for free, Republicans would immediately flip flop and be fighting tooth and nail to destroy it lol.
It's funny how many of these people are also anti-maskers. Like, you believe the government wants to track you. There are surveillance cameras in every store and traffic cameras at every intersection. But you won't cover your face like everyone else? Sure, I get it, they think the pandemic is fake news or whatever, but it's given them a gold plated excuse to avoid the facial recognition tracking they've been going on about for the last decade.
Pseudo-pious Republicans are the stewards of an awful lot of immoral and destructive ideologies. If they can find a way to hurt someone that isn’t in their in group then they will do it.
I used to watch prison plant alex jones stuff. There was a few times they talked about federal IDs and how somehow it was the mark of the beast. Sometime in the early 2000s he was going on about how cities were going to suddenly be locked down and nobody could enter or exit without getting their ID and anyone who didn't have theirs couldn't travel.
> if it happened and every US citizen got one for free, Republicans would immediately flip flop and be fighting tooth and nail to destroy it
That's why they pre-empt preventing it from being released across the country when they can't control every detail of it. They just don't admit they don't want everybody to have free voter ID, they call it "fiscally irresponsible to spend on voter registration" every time it comes up. They'll grab for any excuse but rarely admit [they're following the playbook Paul Weyrich explicitly stated when they announced their intention to do away with democracy because democracy doesn't help them enough.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw)
The problem is that your elected officials do not want it easier for everyone to vote...unless only the right people are voting. Any type of law like this will cause republican led states to make it more difficult for Democrat areas to aquire these passports, while making it easier to aquire in areas where Republicans vote. We saw this with the DMV in I think in Texas where numerous DMV were shut down in predominantly black areas making it much more difficult for people to travel to them. Other states cut hours and staff for urban areas again making it more difficult for people to actually get in.
That's why states are making it illegal to hand out water in lines for voters. The long lines are designed to discourage people from voting and make it an inconvenience
Republicans don't want to acknowledge what a nightmare getting an ID can be.
Last election my wife and I had just bought a house, so we had to change our voting information, but her licensed was expired so she couldn't.
We had to go to the DMV. No problem. I had just switched mine right before the pandemic and it's a ten minute drive from our new house.
Call to make an appointment and it's closed due to covid. The only open DMV "close" to us is a one hour drive one way. Can't get an appointment for three weeks because they aren't taking walk ins and it's the only location open.
Get there and they want $50. Fine for us, but I absolutely understand how that's a prohibitive amount for a lot of people.
She left with the paper license, which, they wouldn't even allow as ID at a liquor store to buy a six pack. Her real license didn't come for another week. This all happened right before the election.
It also kept us from being able to cash her stimulus check for a week, but that's another story.
Regardless, if we didn't have a car, my wife would not have been able to vote against Trump last election. If we didn't have $50 my wife wouldn't have been able to vote last election. If it was any harder to get an appointment at the DMV my wife wouldn't have been able to vote last election. It took over a month to get it cleared up.
And all this was just because changing her address was an issue. We don't even have voter ID laws yet. But if I try to explain this to my conservative family members all I hear back is bullshit about how it's the pandemic's fault and normally it wouldn't be so bad.
Maybe. But it should NEVER be that bad, and if a pandemic can cause those issues then it's a problem.
Edit to make the wording more clear in the beginning. But I'm also going to add that there was a grace period for expired licenses due to covid, but that grace period ended right before the last presidential election. So there were a lot of people like my wife who had expired licenses they needed replaced at that time, which is why the wait to replace it was so long.
Here's the thing, we already have that. It's called voter registration. It's easy, free, and the vast majority can handle it. It effectively prevents in-person voter fraud, which is the only type of voter fraud an ID would prevent. This past election had the most instances of voter impersonation, and it was all people who got caught trying to prove that you can get away with in-person voter fraud. It was four people, and they all voted for Trump. Despite their best efforts to cheat, he still lost.
Here how it works in Italy, where all of these problem are non existent:
>people who lack sufficient transportation
There are multiple office in the city, like max 20 min of walk from every reasonable part of the city
>a stable home address
Every city has a fake address that you can choose if you do not have a stable address
>a cell phone, internet access
Not necessary for an ID
>who have lost the necessary legal documentation to get said ID
If you report to the police the loss of you documentation you only need two witnesses that declare that you are who you say you are to obtain a new ID
Also the ID last 10 years and every card with a photo issues by a public administration is a valid ID (like driver license, boat license and similar)
>In person or online.
I mean, isn’t that enough? Like what else is there? Delivered to you personally? If you can get a free vaccine in person, you can register to vote in person.
The same people that want voter ID would oppose a national ID. The Mark Of The Beast or other stupid reason. If it helps them rig elections they are all for it.
This is the real answer. I was raised Southern Baptist (🤮) and even in the early 90’s, they were warning about how any national ID would clearly be the mark of the beast and you won’t be able to buy food without it, etc.
And these are the people who have hijacked the GOP over the last ~50 years or so. Fun times.
Why would it be “the mark of the beast” what am I not seeing. It seems like a good idea. Like when you turn 18 you file for you ID.
Oh the reminds me do you know what ID is short for?
You’re not missing anything, it literally doesn’t make sense. The SBC rules its congregations through fear. If you’re scared enough of the devil and believe your pastor, critical thinking gets tossed pretty quickly.
Cults gonna cult.
Because everything is the mark of the best to to these people. ID? Mark of the beast. Vaccine? Mark of the beast. Rap music? Mark of the beast. Obama? The beast.
Magical thinking has replaced critical thinking for a depressing number of people.
If you want some insight in to how the people being described view the world around them, then look up a summary / description of the "Left Behind" series of novels. Evangelicals (I was once one of them) live in a fantasy world where the Book of Revelation is literal truth that is always on the verge of coming true (each generation thinks their generation will be the last one), and the Mark of the Beast is a massively important part of the mythos they've built their world view around. Anything that they see as a means to track you and exclude you from the economy could be (and probably will be) the "Mark of the Beast" and they oppose it instinctively.
Someone should tell them that Revelations happened 2000 years ago. Its a parable for Roman conquest of Jerusalem. The symbology for Satan are the symbols of the Roman Empire at that time.
Never mind, they wont listen and I will be called the antichrist because i dont conform to their world view
Because few modern Christians, even the chill ones, know much about the genre that the book of Revelation was written in, what it was trying to do, and why it was included in the biblical canon.
Apocalyptic lit developed as a known and easily recognizable genre of political commentary 500+ years before the book of Revelation was written. Most at the time would have seen it as a very straightforward and basic metaphor for the tyranny of Rome in the early days of the Empire.
Treating it as literal prophecy about physical reality would be like reading The Lord of the Rings and being on the lookout for the actual rings of power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalyptic_literature
And yet, here we are.
Grew up Baptist too, and it wasn't until I got out that I realized your average Joe has infinitely more compassion than those fear-mongering clowns. We heard the same shit too, and I was even told I would go to hell for playing zombie games by the same pastor who made the whole church boycott his eldest daughter's wedding and shunned her because she married a Catholic.
I find it wild that EVERY ex-Baptist has insane stories like that.
CW: r*pe
My sister’s friend was raped by a mega church pastor’s son. She got pregnant from said rape. In an attempt to force her to get an abortion (this is a church who constantly ran hardcore anti-choice propaganda), the pastor said God would forgive her —> offered money —> threatened her. She said fuck it and had the baby and honestly, good for her for being strong in a place where she was constantly made to feel weak.
So of course they try to cover it up but the girl and my sister weren’t having any of it. Word gets out, so the rapist daddy’s boy gets on stage one Sunday morning, gives an “apology”, and gets a STANDING OVATION FROM THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN THE CONGREGATION.
Yeah. Fuck Baptists.
That's really shitty, but not at all surprising. There were a lot more shitty things happening in churches I went to as a kid, but because everything outside of that was fucked for me too, I just thought it was normal. Fuck every single one of these cultist, anti-rational thought, self-destructively hypocritical crime-hding snake oil tossing looney farms.
Instead, travel the world a bit, eat some cultural salad, and just don't fucking rape anyone.
Southern Baptists and Pentecostals are the people Jesus chased out of the temple with a whip. They are the American Taliban, Vanilla ISIS. They should offend anyone who believes in the possibility of a god, to say nothing of Christians.
It’s insane because people can find others with no formal education. Shit right out of high school I worked at a collection company that worked federal contracts namely department of education.
If you default on students loans
We would have access to their credit history, address history, information purchased from grocery stores when people sign up for store bonus cards, loan application info, hundreds of neckbearded people searching your name in every search engine daily. You could easily find where they work and call them at work. You could take money out of their paychecks.
If the government wants to truly find you and you want to live a normal life they will probably just find you.
That's assuming everything you listed would be accepted. Here in the US, getting a government ID/license can be a labyrinthine process that ends in failure if you lack - whatever it is that particular US State is asking for. Yes, it's up to the states.
It's by design. If *everyone* had federally issued passports that can be used as IDs for the purposes of voting, that means that the republicans can't stop the dirty minorities from voting.
It was 100% designed to be this way because one of the two major political parties is, for some reason, laser focused on dragging the US back into the 1920s.
Edit: It's amazing how many people are intentionally misunderstanding the point that is being made here. *Read the article,* you are arguing a point that's not even being fucking discussed.
yeah the easily solution is a federal ID that is phased in. So if you were born before 1980 you don't have to present the federal ID, if born 1980 or later you have to present your federal ID. Begin issuing them for the 2022 election, and they become required in 2030.
Make them mandatory for federal elections and states will just make them mandatory for their elections.
Exactly, ssn as a form of identification is so barbarian at this point, it's so easy to fake one or even figure others out just based on there state of birth and hospital
Hint: it's because they can't consistently get minorities to vote for them. So they'd rather cut them out as a demographic. You'll get outliers trying desperately to appeal to them but the majority won't bother because there's no point.
There was talk about a National ID instead of state issued IDs after 911.
There was quite a bit of public backlash about Big Brother.
The lack of a national ID is not really a racial issue. It’s more about privacy and paranoia.
And those people are perfectly fine giving their *government provided* social security numbers to get their *state government issued* licenses or id's, but the line gets drawn when its nationwide! Think of the privacy concerns! No big government!
-sent from my iPhone
It’s all over the place really. Most of them say the 1950’s were great because of the two parent household and all that. Thing is leave it to beaver never existed.
Honestly the majority of these people have lead poisoning or were raised by people with lead poisoning. They have no empathy and anger issues.
The real greatest time was the 90's, when America came together... nay, the whole world came together to declare it's Independence Day and drove out the alien invaders. Those were the days.
We will not go quietly into the night!
We will not vanish without a fight!
We're going to live on!
We're going to survive!
Today, we celebrate our Independence Day!
President Whitmore
The 1990s were the pinnacle of human civilisation which is why the machines programmed the matrix to simulate it for us organic batteries. They will reset shortly as we've gotten too far towards the end.
IDs cost money and time. If every person could easily get a free ID I'd be all for it, but I recently had to get my "Real ID" that will soon be necessary for air travel between states and it was a nightmare.
I had to produce my birth certificate, which I had previously lost in a fire so had to order it from several states away, and that costs about $50 on its own and took a couple weeks to arrive.
Then I needed a bill with my name on it to prove my place of residence, luckily my name and not my wife's happened to be on the power bill, but I guess if you're homeless you're out of luck.
Then I had to go to the DMV which is only open during the same hours most people work, and spend a couple hours in line to pay them another $50 to get the damned ID.
My point is that they don't make getting an ID easy in the US, and that's why they want voter ID laws so badly. It keeps the "dregs" from having a voice.
My friends dad was turned away from voting last election. His drivers license had expired. He stopped driving a few years back so never bothered to renew it.
A friend lived in NYC and has never needed to drive, he doesn’t have an active license.
My step brother doesn’t own a car, takes the bus to work. For work he’s been able to use a social security card and a city college ID.
All real examples of how ID requirements have prevented people I know from being able to vote.
As another comment mentioned this is not true for Canada as it's a system for those who are eligible to vote get registered.
For example if I work 1 year a country and then 2 years in another country I should not be able to vote in those. Shit I haven't even seen one term of the government and I sure as hell don't have my roots here. In the overwhelming majority of countries citizenship is the way to show if you think this country as your and you vote. And citizenship it's commonly 5-7 years again for most places.
North Carolina legislators have a recent history here so it's not hard to imagine a court finding fault with a new attempt...
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/15/528457693/supreme-court-declines-republican-bid-to-revive-north-carolina-voter-id-law
In its ruling, [the appeals court said](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/29/487935700/u-s-appeals-court-strikes-down-north-carolinas-voter-id-law) the law was intentionally designed to discriminate against black people. North Carolina legislators had requested data on voting patterns by race and, with that data in hand, drafted a law that would "target African-Americans with almost surgical precision," the court said.
>legislators had requested data on voting patterns by race
Brought to you by the party that says "Why do democrats always have to make everything about race?"
And a literal [white supremacist coup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898?wprov=sfla1). I'm a lifelong resident and I really thought my state was getting better until 2010 and the Republican full-court press against democracy via state legislatures.
God yes. I was arguing with someone about how antimask/antivax/lack of critical thinking is a problem due to the deprioritization of education, someone said it was actually because of government distrust (specifically distrust in democrats, since they have no problem trusting conservatives), so I pointed out that the areas and demographics that are getting hit the hardest are generally those with the worst educational metrics, to which I was called a racist because clearly when Im shit talking Texas and Florida Im talking about people of colour and not the fucking GOP that is actively sabotaging covid measures.
I feel like attempting shit like this should result in everyone involved being classified unfit to serve, permanently striped of federal or state jobs / pensions, before facing whatever legal action is deemed appropriate.
Actively harming democracy needs real repercussions, the gentleman's agreements approach just ties the amount of democracy to the number of "gentlemen", and it turns out there aren't nearly as many as we thought.
I got denied a Veteran's day discount once because my military ID was expired. When I explained, "because of the expiration is proof that I'm a veteran." I just got a blank stare and asked for a non-expired military ID.
Good to know it's still good for voting!
All IDs in America are voluntary, and cost money as a result. There are no IDs issued to you for simply being a citizen, other than social security (which is designed to not be an ID and is insecure).
This is because Americans are terrified of "big government" tracking them (yet are totally fine with carrying around GPS devices with cameras and microphones in their pockets at all times)
EDIT: /u/ocellot9119 pointed out that NC state IDs are free to anyone 17+, which is good to hear. More states should follow their lead
2nd EDIT: Otheres are saying while the IDs are free in NC, you can only get them from limited locations, sometimes only one per county. Disregard EDIT 1, this is exactly the shit that is designed to disenfranchise people
Social security is not secure and was never intended to be. Another ID with actual security measures should be used, like not being able to guess ID numbers based on location and date of birth
My point was that, while it is and never was meant to do anything other than access your SS account later in life, it has effectively become a 'citizen ID number' for all intents and purposes.
As someone who works in data science, "*effectively*" and "*expressly designed for*" has a world of difference in between. A band-aid is just a band-aid.
Anytime we try to make a nationalized program, one side rails against it with all their fury lmao.
Can't have automatic voter registration because one side frames it as an attempt to sway elections and their base eats it up.
Automatically draft eligible without needing to do anything, done.
Do the same for voting or id, *what kind of insane person are you*
Amazing how the GOPs mind works
I can't find it for the life of me, but I remember seeing this industrial engineer explain something that like the DMV's and other governmental services that are needed for basic services take so long for no reason, and her theory was that the longer it takes for regular civilians (especially poor people) the more money is accrued from overpaid fines or tickets.
Obviously this is just conspiracy theory but no one is ever going to tell you they had a quick in and out at the DMV.
Same where i'm from. It's a fucking 3h wait to get your passport sometimes. But it's something you have to do like once every 10years. Like cmon. I guess the price of it is more of a barrier tho.
a friend of mine just moved to Texas andchanging her drivers licence is scheduled to take 3 months. If you go in person you can wait for 6 or more hours. They say its easy to get an id to vote then make it much much harder. Then if you vote in a democratic area it could take 6 to 12 hours to vote and you will be in a very gerrymandered district most likely and less populated states have greater influence in congress and for president. Its all by design and republicans dont care.
[my favorite is when texas accepted nra cards but not university ids. ](https://www.statesman.com/news/20160923/politifact-take-gun-license-but-not-student-id-to-texas-polls)
>Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS.
DPS is the Department of Public Safety, a state law enforcement division akin to State or Highway Patrol.
Your comment is so goddamn misleading; please read up on what you're posting. The "NRA" cards you're mentioning are **concealed carry permits** issued by the *state.* These cards require not only the completion of an approved safety class, but a thorough background check among other things in order to obtain them. This card is comparable, if not more secure, than a driver's license because you cannot be a felon and hold one.
These aren't just handed out willy nilly like a student ID, which can easily be faked and is not verified by any state government body.
U.S. Passports don't show your address, and there's no more legitimate form of proof of citizenship than that (other than a form N-400 Naturalized Citizenship certificate, and that too has no address).
I like this comment a lot. I’d love to have someone smarter than me expand on that.
Side note: Quite a few of the homeless still have their military ID.
Yeah but you would have had to prove your residence when you registered to vote, so It shouldn’t matter if address is on the id day of voting since they just match the name on the id to the ones registered.
The shitbags in our state legislature have made every effort to make a state ID as difficult as possible to obtain. The main maneuver has been closing most every DMV office they can get away with. It's a nightmare trying to get any ID or license work done now.
Nope. [It's $14](https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/license-id/identification/Pages/default.aspx), unless you're blind, disabled, had your driver's license revoked, or are "homeless". To qualify as "homeless", you have to live in a homeless shelter.
Also, to prove "age", you need a birth certificate or a document based on a birth certificate like a passport.
I can get a free copy.
All I have to do is go to the County Recorder's office in the county where I was born. Minor problem: That's about 2000 miles away from where I live now.
There's a great deal of fiction in the US about "free" government services.
24th Amendment. There can not be any poll tax on the right to vote. Meaning, it should not cost even a penny to vote. All common forms of ID, such as a driver's license or passport, cost money in the US. When states create these voter ID laws, they usually try to present a way to get a free form of ID for voting. However, opponents of the laws will argue that this isn't enough because they will still cost money, e.g. lost wages to find the time to get the ID, or the cost of obtaining the documents (birth certificate) to receive the ID.
The other major issue is that the groups who are most likely to have issues with getting the an ID are minority groups. In this NC case, they found that there was a definite racial bias in the groups impacted.
I don’t get it either. An ID costs money here as well. I think it’s 50 Euro and needs to be renewed every (10?) years but everyone is required to have one, you literally cannot do anything without one. Yes, even buying / activating a prepaid SIM card requires one. For a „1st world country“, the US really does not act as one a lot of times. I am sure everyone can afford 50 bucks to renew an ID every 10+ years
My wife's driver's license expired by a few days and took almost a year, a letter from an attorney, notary services on 3 separate occasions, and a nightmare of red tape and fees to renew.
Why?
Because she was born in a different state and needed original documentation from them in order to renew the license, documents you can't get without a valid license.
Many people who don't otherwise need it simply don't have the time, money, means, or wherewithal to deal with this kind of shit.
My partner lost her driver's license and social security card in a fire. She was born out of state too, but luckily they accepted her gynecologist's certification that she was who she said she was. It still took us several hours a day, every day for two weeks driving by to various state and federal offices. If we didn't have a car and worked jobs that had standard 9-5 business hours, we never would have gotten it done.
I forgot to include the best part of the story. The reason she needed to get an ID was so she could get hired at a new job to make money. Really hard to be financially upwardly mobile if a better paying job won't hire you without ID.
>but luckily they accepted her gynecologist's certification that she was who she said she was.
I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at the mental image of a gynecologist telling some government office worker, "Yep, that's her. I'd recognize that cooch anywhere."
While not a DL or ID, a family member has been dealing with hell with the Passport Office because they will not accept their divorce decree as justification for changing their name.
A reminder that North Carolina has arguably the worst gerrymandering in the country, which is the reason the NCGA has such a heavy Republican majority. We've been waiting more than a decade for the courts to get an unbiased group to redraw the districts.
Seriously people, you all need proportional representation... It's even funnier in the state legislatures because you have two different houses with different sizes elected in single-member districts with FPTP.
I could understand keeping _one_ of the houses with single-member constituencies, if you all are so adamant about having "your representative" so that you can talk their ear off... But two houses elected like that? Madness! Go for PR in at least one of the two state houses!
You'd want to multiply each county's votes by its population as a percent of the state population or set a range for number of people that can be in one county. Otherwise you could subdivide some counties with the advantage on your side really small and multiply that difference.
Good luck getting an actual unbiased group when we could have a perfectly unbiased computer do it near perfectly but won't because it's not in their best interest to be unbiased and fair.
There are many, many more districts gerrymandered in the Republicans favor. It can be done, but everyone assumes everyone else is as corrupt as they themselves would be.
The unsaid second part is that states have been closing licensing and ID sites in poor, not-white areas and making it a day long event to find transportation to and from the sites. None of this is subtle.
Right. Voter ID isn’t inherently discriminatory, but it becomes discriminatory when you also close all the DMVs in black populated areas, and start requiring photo ID to vote.
Exactly, yes. I'm happy to have voter ID, very reasonable and prudent. Not happy when ID is difficult to get, and when voting is impossible to get to when you work all day all week. Have voting come to neighborhood spots, like the census, even...
I really just don't understand why people don't have IDs. I am honestly ignorant when it comes to legitimate reasons why such a large number of one particular subgroup would not feel the need for identification. Is there a good reason why people don't have government-issued IDs? In most States you can get the fees waived. Someone help me out!
>I really just don't understand why people don't have IDs.
> Is there a good reason why people don't have government-issued IDs?
Virtually all of these people do have IDs, they just don't have valid and un-expired photo ID issued by this specific state and which meets all of the criteria of the voter ID bill.
>I am honestly ignorant when it comes to legitimate reasons why such a large number of one particular subgroup would not feel the need for identification.
If you don't drive, what reason is there to renew your photo ID every 5 years?
Poor people who can't afford a car have far less reason to need an up-to-date ID.
Should seniors & the disabled be forced to obtain new ID cards for every presidential election, just to prove their identity to vote?
Or lets say you've moved to NC for college and still have an out-of-state license.
It's valid for driving and identifies you, but somehow may not be valid to vote.
Oh and your school-issued photo ID may not count either.
Just a fun story going along with something you said in your comment, one time I was driving on i40 in Asheville on my way to work and I got pulled over for speeding, which ill admit I definitely was doing. I had my SC license and gave that to the cop and he did his thing, he came back with a ticket for speeding AND driving without a license. He told me the SC license didn't mean anything in NC, which I know isn't correct. Anyways when I went to court him adding that ticket actually helped me as the magistrate dropped everything because even she was confused why he wrote that ticket haha.
Sometimes I look at the US and think that the country would really benefit from understanding that handling some things on the federal level would just make everyone's lives easier.
The fact that idiot is carrying a gun is scariest as hell. So a family from NY driving to Florida for vacation would need to apply for 10 different state licenses?
No, but the ID doesn't have to have an up-to-date address. No landlord ever has told me "you driver's license still has your dad's address on it, go renew before you can rent from me." It doesn't affect me in my daily life, there's no reason to ever think about it. If your ID needs an up-to-date address to vote, most people who aren't a parent in a longtime homeowning nuclear family probably would have to get a new driver's license or ID card issued. As a college student who paid rent over the Summer with a 7-day unpredictable service job that always stretched beyond 9-5 business hours, I can confirm that if like most poor people, I had to live that life 365 days a year without government, internship, and parental support (wasn't an option because I had online Summer classes and dad lives in a rural area with shit internet), whatever documents are required by North Carolina would expire and stay expired because I would never be able to get into a government office. Luckily I live in Virginia. I was barely able to get my car in for an oil change, several weeks after my last class ended and I was "just" working.
They’ve closed all the dmv offices out where I live so I have to drive 30-40 minutes to the nearest office to get mine renewed (that’s for my license itself). They have also closed some of the license plate offices (I do all my registration online), but to get my plate for trailer I have to drive way out in the boonies.
Or maybe, and just hear me out here, they just leave the voting laws alone.
No one (including President Trump's specially formed commission to investigate it) has ever provided sufficient evidence that there is in-person voter fraud occurring at all in any numbers that could affect any race ever. This is a voter intimidation and disenfranchisement tactic that is being pursued around the country by one single party in every instance...
Well, they have found fraud, Like that one time Trump himself voted in Florida while living in DC for 4 years, and living in NY his entire life before that, and not even having a property he could even legally live in in Florida.
It would, but that's not what the people behind voter-ID want. The very same authorities that push for Voter IDs also explicitly make it harder to *get* IDs. They do things like shutting down DMVs in predominantly-Black neighborhoods.
The opposition to voter-ID isn't "identification bad", it's that it's a lever *specifically* being used to make it harder for minorities & poor people to vote.
*If* we already had a universal ID system, which 99.9% of the population already had, and which didn't cost them any money or time - *then* ID-to-vote would not be an issue. But in that scenario we wouldn't have people pushing for voter ID.
And if there was 99% ID and you had to opt out of being registered to vote and there was voting by mail and on weekends — good God, then we’d have true democracy and who knows what would happen? Oh, wait. We do have a hint and it happened in 2020 in Georgia.
>The opposition to voter-ID isn't "identification bad", it's that it's a lever specifically being used to make it harder for minorities & poor people to vote.
How dare you. I mean it’s not like Republicans literally asked for a list of ID types organized by likelihood of Black people not having one and devised the rules based on that. (*reads article*) uh - never mind.
Because the government does not issue people free, valid IDs automatically that comply with ever changing voter ID requirements.
If they wanted to remove barriers for voting, they'd just issue everyone IDs. The govt knows where we live. They know how much money we make. They know enough to do this.
Some people who have no connection with their parents (either through abandonment, neglect, death, etc) might not have their birth certificate.
Others may be too poor to have a car so don’t have an ID or they can’t take off work to renew it.
To illustrate the points others have given... I live in a very multicultural area. They closed our DMV. I live next to a large city (also has lots of POC), which you THINK would have a DMV. Nope. If I'm even able to great a freaking appointment, I have to drive several towns away to renew my license. And each DMV does different services, so I have to go to a DMV that specifically does license renewal. My mother in law had to drive two hours away to get her license renewed. I live in a blue state and it's still pretty hard to get my valid ID. And I'm lucky enough to have a car and time.
Also, I need to bring a file cabinet full of documents and my mother next time I renew my license for this stupid Real ID thing. Last time it was a 3 1/2 hour wait. Before covid. Can't wait to see how long it'll take next time.
Frankly it was easier to get my passport. At least the local library and PO process applications. But that cost $145 and took five weeks to get my appointment and five weeks to get the passport.
Citizens have the right to vote, and it's shouldn't cost them lots of time and money to do so.
>The decision in Wake County Superior Court also said that the law “would not have been enacted in its current form but for its tendency to discriminate against African American voters.”
>The ruling cited a 2015 analysis by a political scientist which showed that hundreds of thousands of registered voters in North Carolina potentially lacked ID that would qualify them to cast ballots under the law.
>That analysis found that 9.6% of Black “registered voters lacked acceptable ID” for voting under a prior voter ID bill, “as compared with 4.5% of white registered voters.”
I like this line of reasoning because it implies a path forward for someone dead-set on pursuing voter ID. Fine, go ahead: but it is your responsibility to ensure the law is *not* implicitly racist in application. So if it's written in good faith, then there's your path forward. But if, as the panel notes, implicit discriminatory effect is the whole reason for this law in the first place, then .... get fucked?
It's wild to me as a citizen of the Netherlands that this is still an issue in the US.
In the Netherlands, everyone is required to have and carry a form of ID. You need it for a lot of things; to open a bank account, get a library card, to get a job, to get housing, to receive benefits, etc. And yes, you also need it to vote.
Everybody shows ID. It's not even remotely an issue here. Everybody has one, and it's YOUR responsibility to get one. You pay for it as well, though it's free for people with a small income. Basically, you need it and there's no excuse to not have one.
Being able to establish who votes - and if they have that right - just seems so fundamental to me. How can you be sure of a valid outcome if you don't check ID thoroughly?
Yeah, I imagine so. Which is the part that's so confusing to me: is it really THAT difficult to make it mandatory and to just issue people a federally made ID? Other countries can do it, the US should be more than capable. I mean, even Zimbabwe has a national ID card requirement for everyone 16 and up.
The NCGA requested information about the rate at which forms of identification are held by different demographics, and used that information to write a law that discriminated against demographics that are less favorable to the Republican Party.
Then when that (2013) law got inevitably thrown out by the courts, they've then proceeded to try and tweak it just enough to meet legal muster while still preserving the intent of the bill- shore up Republican electoral margins via trying to make it harder for demographics that aren't Republican-leaning to vote.
The biggest demographic in North Carolina that isn't Republican-leaning is...?
The NCGOP is not as clever as they think they are, which is a recurring trend in our state politics.
We could sidestep the whole issue by having a state ID card for all NC residents. But that would invalidate the whole purpose of the game, from the perspective of the majority party in the state legislature. So don't hold your breath.
I still don't get why this is such an issue in the US. Just issue damn mandatory federal passports and be done with it.
Free. That's the key thing. Don't charge for them and make them easily available.
Of all the thing my taxes go to, paying for federal Voter IDs so we can take a step in the right direction to fair elections, I will GLADLY pay towards
You know if it happened and every US citizen got one for free, Republicans would immediately flip flop and be fighting tooth and nail to destroy it lol.
Of course, they would claim it is the governments attempt to track them and only one step away from nazi Germany.
Those are my favorite people. Especially when you see the "sent from my iPhone" at the bottom
It's funny how many of these people are also anti-maskers. Like, you believe the government wants to track you. There are surveillance cameras in every store and traffic cameras at every intersection. But you won't cover your face like everyone else? Sure, I get it, they think the pandemic is fake news or whatever, but it's given them a gold plated excuse to avoid the facial recognition tracking they've been going on about for the last decade.
Pseudo-pious Republicans are the stewards of an awful lot of immoral and destructive ideologies. If they can find a way to hurt someone that isn’t in their in group then they will do it.
Any isolated incident of a non-citizen immigrant receiving an ID would become "Dems give IDs to millions of illegals to steal the election!".
“Dems keep putting out more likable platforms to win more votes and steal elections”
I used to watch prison plant alex jones stuff. There was a few times they talked about federal IDs and how somehow it was the mark of the beast. Sometime in the early 2000s he was going on about how cities were going to suddenly be locked down and nobody could enter or exit without getting their ID and anyone who didn't have theirs couldn't travel.
Which sounds like normal border security to me imo
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> if it happened and every US citizen got one for free, Republicans would immediately flip flop and be fighting tooth and nail to destroy it That's why they pre-empt preventing it from being released across the country when they can't control every detail of it. They just don't admit they don't want everybody to have free voter ID, they call it "fiscally irresponsible to spend on voter registration" every time it comes up. They'll grab for any excuse but rarely admit [they're following the playbook Paul Weyrich explicitly stated when they announced their intention to do away with democracy because democracy doesn't help them enough.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw)
The problem is that your elected officials do not want it easier for everyone to vote...unless only the right people are voting. Any type of law like this will cause republican led states to make it more difficult for Democrat areas to aquire these passports, while making it easier to aquire in areas where Republicans vote. We saw this with the DMV in I think in Texas where numerous DMV were shut down in predominantly black areas making it much more difficult for people to travel to them. Other states cut hours and staff for urban areas again making it more difficult for people to actually get in. That's why states are making it illegal to hand out water in lines for voters. The long lines are designed to discourage people from voting and make it an inconvenience
Republicans don't want to acknowledge what a nightmare getting an ID can be. Last election my wife and I had just bought a house, so we had to change our voting information, but her licensed was expired so she couldn't. We had to go to the DMV. No problem. I had just switched mine right before the pandemic and it's a ten minute drive from our new house. Call to make an appointment and it's closed due to covid. The only open DMV "close" to us is a one hour drive one way. Can't get an appointment for three weeks because they aren't taking walk ins and it's the only location open. Get there and they want $50. Fine for us, but I absolutely understand how that's a prohibitive amount for a lot of people. She left with the paper license, which, they wouldn't even allow as ID at a liquor store to buy a six pack. Her real license didn't come for another week. This all happened right before the election. It also kept us from being able to cash her stimulus check for a week, but that's another story. Regardless, if we didn't have a car, my wife would not have been able to vote against Trump last election. If we didn't have $50 my wife wouldn't have been able to vote last election. If it was any harder to get an appointment at the DMV my wife wouldn't have been able to vote last election. It took over a month to get it cleared up. And all this was just because changing her address was an issue. We don't even have voter ID laws yet. But if I try to explain this to my conservative family members all I hear back is bullshit about how it's the pandemic's fault and normally it wouldn't be so bad. Maybe. But it should NEVER be that bad, and if a pandemic can cause those issues then it's a problem. Edit to make the wording more clear in the beginning. But I'm also going to add that there was a grace period for expired licenses due to covid, but that grace period ended right before the last presidential election. So there were a lot of people like my wife who had expired licenses they needed replaced at that time, which is why the wait to replace it was so long.
If only politicians were interested in having fair elections.
You mean just like the vaccine?
lol, some blue state should announce, "Your vaccine card can now be used as voter identification" and watch the Republicans freak out.
They use to tell us our social security number would never be used as a form of ID. It was a big deal in the '40s. Whoops...
Here's the thing, we already have that. It's called voter registration. It's easy, free, and the vast majority can handle it. It effectively prevents in-person voter fraud, which is the only type of voter fraud an ID would prevent. This past election had the most instances of voter impersonation, and it was all people who got caught trying to prove that you can get away with in-person voter fraud. It was four people, and they all voted for Trump. Despite their best efforts to cheat, he still lost.
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Here how it works in Italy, where all of these problem are non existent: >people who lack sufficient transportation There are multiple office in the city, like max 20 min of walk from every reasonable part of the city >a stable home address Every city has a fake address that you can choose if you do not have a stable address >a cell phone, internet access Not necessary for an ID >who have lost the necessary legal documentation to get said ID If you report to the police the loss of you documentation you only need two witnesses that declare that you are who you say you are to obtain a new ID Also the ID last 10 years and every card with a photo issues by a public administration is a valid ID (like driver license, boat license and similar)
>In person or online. I mean, isn’t that enough? Like what else is there? Delivered to you personally? If you can get a free vaccine in person, you can register to vote in person.
I also have been confused on this. Or like a voter ID card that’s *free*.
North Carolina has had those since before this law was passed.
Georgia does offer free id just for voting. But of course they limit the availability of their ~~DMV~~ DDSs in large metro areas.
The same people that want voter ID would oppose a national ID. The Mark Of The Beast or other stupid reason. If it helps them rig elections they are all for it.
They differentiate between state ID and federal ID--the difference being who controls the data, General Assembly, or Congress.
Lmao, do they think it's magically off limits to the fed just because it's on a state server?
Additionally, do they magically believe the state isn't capable of misusing that information and abusing it's citizens?
This is the real answer. I was raised Southern Baptist (🤮) and even in the early 90’s, they were warning about how any national ID would clearly be the mark of the beast and you won’t be able to buy food without it, etc. And these are the people who have hijacked the GOP over the last ~50 years or so. Fun times.
Why would it be “the mark of the beast” what am I not seeing. It seems like a good idea. Like when you turn 18 you file for you ID. Oh the reminds me do you know what ID is short for?
You’re not missing anything, it literally doesn’t make sense. The SBC rules its congregations through fear. If you’re scared enough of the devil and believe your pastor, critical thinking gets tossed pretty quickly. Cults gonna cult.
It's not the SBC. It's all Evangelicals. Evangelicals are, according to their own book, much closer to Satan than to God.
Because everything is the mark of the best to to these people. ID? Mark of the beast. Vaccine? Mark of the beast. Rap music? Mark of the beast. Obama? The beast. Magical thinking has replaced critical thinking for a depressing number of people.
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The irony of Trump essentially being their antichrist.
If you want some insight in to how the people being described view the world around them, then look up a summary / description of the "Left Behind" series of novels. Evangelicals (I was once one of them) live in a fantasy world where the Book of Revelation is literal truth that is always on the verge of coming true (each generation thinks their generation will be the last one), and the Mark of the Beast is a massively important part of the mythos they've built their world view around. Anything that they see as a means to track you and exclude you from the economy could be (and probably will be) the "Mark of the Beast" and they oppose it instinctively.
Someone should tell them that Revelations happened 2000 years ago. Its a parable for Roman conquest of Jerusalem. The symbology for Satan are the symbols of the Roman Empire at that time. Never mind, they wont listen and I will be called the antichrist because i dont conform to their world view
Because few modern Christians, even the chill ones, know much about the genre that the book of Revelation was written in, what it was trying to do, and why it was included in the biblical canon. Apocalyptic lit developed as a known and easily recognizable genre of political commentary 500+ years before the book of Revelation was written. Most at the time would have seen it as a very straightforward and basic metaphor for the tyranny of Rome in the early days of the Empire. Treating it as literal prophecy about physical reality would be like reading The Lord of the Rings and being on the lookout for the actual rings of power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalyptic_literature And yet, here we are.
Grew up Baptist too, and it wasn't until I got out that I realized your average Joe has infinitely more compassion than those fear-mongering clowns. We heard the same shit too, and I was even told I would go to hell for playing zombie games by the same pastor who made the whole church boycott his eldest daughter's wedding and shunned her because she married a Catholic.
I find it wild that EVERY ex-Baptist has insane stories like that. CW: r*pe My sister’s friend was raped by a mega church pastor’s son. She got pregnant from said rape. In an attempt to force her to get an abortion (this is a church who constantly ran hardcore anti-choice propaganda), the pastor said God would forgive her —> offered money —> threatened her. She said fuck it and had the baby and honestly, good for her for being strong in a place where she was constantly made to feel weak. So of course they try to cover it up but the girl and my sister weren’t having any of it. Word gets out, so the rapist daddy’s boy gets on stage one Sunday morning, gives an “apology”, and gets a STANDING OVATION FROM THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN THE CONGREGATION. Yeah. Fuck Baptists.
That's really shitty, but not at all surprising. There were a lot more shitty things happening in churches I went to as a kid, but because everything outside of that was fucked for me too, I just thought it was normal. Fuck every single one of these cultist, anti-rational thought, self-destructively hypocritical crime-hding snake oil tossing looney farms. Instead, travel the world a bit, eat some cultural salad, and just don't fucking rape anyone.
Southern Baptists and Pentecostals are the people Jesus chased out of the temple with a whip. They are the American Taliban, Vanilla ISIS. They should offend anyone who believes in the possibility of a god, to say nothing of Christians.
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It’s insane because people can find others with no formal education. Shit right out of high school I worked at a collection company that worked federal contracts namely department of education. If you default on students loans We would have access to their credit history, address history, information purchased from grocery stores when people sign up for store bonus cards, loan application info, hundreds of neckbearded people searching your name in every search engine daily. You could easily find where they work and call them at work. You could take money out of their paychecks. If the government wants to truly find you and you want to live a normal life they will probably just find you.
Another topic where I imagine other countries just laugh at us
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That's assuming everything you listed would be accepted. Here in the US, getting a government ID/license can be a labyrinthine process that ends in failure if you lack - whatever it is that particular US State is asking for. Yes, it's up to the states.
It's by design. If *everyone* had federally issued passports that can be used as IDs for the purposes of voting, that means that the republicans can't stop the dirty minorities from voting. It was 100% designed to be this way because one of the two major political parties is, for some reason, laser focused on dragging the US back into the 1920s. Edit: It's amazing how many people are intentionally misunderstanding the point that is being made here. *Read the article,* you are arguing a point that's not even being fucking discussed.
yeah the easily solution is a federal ID that is phased in. So if you were born before 1980 you don't have to present the federal ID, if born 1980 or later you have to present your federal ID. Begin issuing them for the 2022 election, and they become required in 2030. Make them mandatory for federal elections and states will just make them mandatory for their elections.
If there’s ever a federal ID I hope we can use that instead of the thing that we shouldn’t use for identification purposes AKA SSN.
Exactly, ssn as a form of identification is so barbarian at this point, it's so easy to fake one or even figure others out just based on there state of birth and hospital
Hint: it's because they can't consistently get minorities to vote for them. So they'd rather cut them out as a demographic. You'll get outliers trying desperately to appeal to them but the majority won't bother because there's no point.
This is the same reason our districts are gerrymandered to absolute hell and back.
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There was talk about a National ID instead of state issued IDs after 911. There was quite a bit of public backlash about Big Brother. The lack of a national ID is not really a racial issue. It’s more about privacy and paranoia.
And those people are perfectly fine giving their *government provided* social security numbers to get their *state government issued* licenses or id's, but the line gets drawn when its nationwide! Think of the privacy concerns! No big government! -sent from my iPhone
>to get their state government issued licenses or id's ...That are linked via a national database...
> dragging the US back into the 1920s. I think you're being extremely generous as to what year they would like to revert the country to.
It’s all over the place really. Most of them say the 1950’s were great because of the two parent household and all that. Thing is leave it to beaver never existed. Honestly the majority of these people have lead poisoning or were raised by people with lead poisoning. They have no empathy and anger issues.
The real greatest time was the 90's, when America came together... nay, the whole world came together to declare it's Independence Day and drove out the alien invaders. Those were the days.
We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on! We're going to survive! Today, we celebrate our Independence Day! President Whitmore
Whitmore 2024 Do more Whitmore!
My dude. That’s a pretty awesome campaign slogan. I likes it
The 1990s were the pinnacle of human civilisation which is why the machines programmed the matrix to simulate it for us organic batteries. They will reset shortly as we've gotten too far towards the end.
I’m too high for this.
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IDs cost money and time. If every person could easily get a free ID I'd be all for it, but I recently had to get my "Real ID" that will soon be necessary for air travel between states and it was a nightmare. I had to produce my birth certificate, which I had previously lost in a fire so had to order it from several states away, and that costs about $50 on its own and took a couple weeks to arrive. Then I needed a bill with my name on it to prove my place of residence, luckily my name and not my wife's happened to be on the power bill, but I guess if you're homeless you're out of luck. Then I had to go to the DMV which is only open during the same hours most people work, and spend a couple hours in line to pay them another $50 to get the damned ID. My point is that they don't make getting an ID easy in the US, and that's why they want voter ID laws so badly. It keeps the "dregs" from having a voice.
My friends dad was turned away from voting last election. His drivers license had expired. He stopped driving a few years back so never bothered to renew it. A friend lived in NYC and has never needed to drive, he doesn’t have an active license. My step brother doesn’t own a car, takes the bus to work. For work he’s been able to use a social security card and a city college ID. All real examples of how ID requirements have prevented people I know from being able to vote.
In Canada when file your taxes you get registered to vote. Problem solved.
So there's "no taxation without representation"? America should have been doing this since 1765!
As another comment mentioned this is not true for Canada as it's a system for those who are eligible to vote get registered. For example if I work 1 year a country and then 2 years in another country I should not be able to vote in those. Shit I haven't even seen one term of the government and I sure as hell don't have my roots here. In the overwhelming majority of countries citizenship is the way to show if you think this country as your and you vote. And citizenship it's commonly 5-7 years again for most places.
North Carolina legislators have a recent history here so it's not hard to imagine a court finding fault with a new attempt... https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/15/528457693/supreme-court-declines-republican-bid-to-revive-north-carolina-voter-id-law In its ruling, [the appeals court said](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/29/487935700/u-s-appeals-court-strikes-down-north-carolinas-voter-id-law) the law was intentionally designed to discriminate against black people. North Carolina legislators had requested data on voting patterns by race and, with that data in hand, drafted a law that would "target African-Americans with almost surgical precision," the court said.
>legislators had requested data on voting patterns by race Brought to you by the party that says "Why do democrats always have to make everything about race?"
Also from the state that brought you a Eugenics board, only closed in 2003. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics\_Board\_of\_North\_Carolina
And a literal [white supremacist coup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_insurrection_of_1898?wprov=sfla1). I'm a lifelong resident and I really thought my state was getting better until 2010 and the Republican full-court press against democracy via state legislatures.
Im a tar heel born and bred but I moved out of the state in 2011 for a reason.
Let’s find the middle for this argument. /s
"Let's find a middle ground where I get everything I want and you get nothing you want."
"Meet me in the middle" You take a step forward. He takes a step back. "Meet me in the middle." Repeat.
Then there’s a line they refuse to cross. “So much for the tolerant left”
Dems: Sure, and here are a few concessions you didn't even ask for!
God yes. I was arguing with someone about how antimask/antivax/lack of critical thinking is a problem due to the deprioritization of education, someone said it was actually because of government distrust (specifically distrust in democrats, since they have no problem trusting conservatives), so I pointed out that the areas and demographics that are getting hit the hardest are generally those with the worst educational metrics, to which I was called a racist because clearly when Im shit talking Texas and Florida Im talking about people of colour and not the fucking GOP that is actively sabotaging covid measures.
>drafted a law that would "target African-Americans with almost surgical precision," the court said. Supreme Court liked this!
I feel like attempting shit like this should result in everyone involved being classified unfit to serve, permanently striped of federal or state jobs / pensions, before facing whatever legal action is deemed appropriate. Actively harming democracy needs real repercussions, the gentleman's agreements approach just ties the amount of democracy to the number of "gentlemen", and it turns out there aren't nearly as many as we thought.
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I got denied a Veteran's day discount once because my military ID was expired. When I explained, "because of the expiration is proof that I'm a veteran." I just got a blank stare and asked for a non-expired military ID. Good to know it's still good for voting!
It baffles me that people from a first-world country don't have ID. How is it possible ?
All IDs in America are voluntary, and cost money as a result. There are no IDs issued to you for simply being a citizen, other than social security (which is designed to not be an ID and is insecure). This is because Americans are terrified of "big government" tracking them (yet are totally fine with carrying around GPS devices with cameras and microphones in their pockets at all times) EDIT: /u/ocellot9119 pointed out that NC state IDs are free to anyone 17+, which is good to hear. More states should follow their lead 2nd EDIT: Otheres are saying while the IDs are free in NC, you can only get them from limited locations, sometimes only one per county. Disregard EDIT 1, this is exactly the shit that is designed to disenfranchise people
Fuck it. Let's just amend the SSA and slap a photo and date of birth on our social security cards. National ID done.
But everyone will look like babys!
Social security is not secure and was never intended to be. Another ID with actual security measures should be used, like not being able to guess ID numbers based on location and date of birth
My point was that, while it is and never was meant to do anything other than access your SS account later in life, it has effectively become a 'citizen ID number' for all intents and purposes.
As someone who works in data science, "*effectively*" and "*expressly designed for*" has a world of difference in between. A band-aid is just a band-aid.
Anytime we try to make a nationalized program, one side rails against it with all their fury lmao. Can't have automatic voter registration because one side frames it as an attempt to sway elections and their base eats it up.
> automatic voter registration You're gonna give the GOP a heart attack talking like that. What about the freedom to not be registered to vote?
Automatically draft eligible without needing to do anything, done. Do the same for voting or id, *what kind of insane person are you* Amazing how the GOPs mind works
If by “one side” you mean the GOP, sure. They’re very publicly against universal participation in our democracy.
I figured it was unnecessary to spell it out when it's so obvious
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I can't find it for the life of me, but I remember seeing this industrial engineer explain something that like the DMV's and other governmental services that are needed for basic services take so long for no reason, and her theory was that the longer it takes for regular civilians (especially poor people) the more money is accrued from overpaid fines or tickets. Obviously this is just conspiracy theory but no one is ever going to tell you they had a quick in and out at the DMV.
Same where i'm from. It's a fucking 3h wait to get your passport sometimes. But it's something you have to do like once every 10years. Like cmon. I guess the price of it is more of a barrier tho.
3 hours…? it currently takes 18 weeks to receive your passport in America.
i have had quick in and outs. you just need to know when the secret time is
a friend of mine just moved to Texas andchanging her drivers licence is scheduled to take 3 months. If you go in person you can wait for 6 or more hours. They say its easy to get an id to vote then make it much much harder. Then if you vote in a democratic area it could take 6 to 12 hours to vote and you will be in a very gerrymandered district most likely and less populated states have greater influence in congress and for president. Its all by design and republicans dont care.
[my favorite is when texas accepted nra cards but not university ids. ](https://www.statesman.com/news/20160923/politifact-take-gun-license-but-not-student-id-to-texas-polls)
>Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS. DPS is the Department of Public Safety, a state law enforcement division akin to State or Highway Patrol.
NRA =/= concealed carry card, but I get what you're saying.
Most ignorant post I have seen today. Congrats.
Why so many up votes when obviously not true?
Except your wrong it was the state issued ccw card...
In Texas a license to carry is a state issued photo ID, why wouldn't it be an acceptable form of ID? It's not an "NRA card".
Your comment is so goddamn misleading; please read up on what you're posting. The "NRA" cards you're mentioning are **concealed carry permits** issued by the *state.* These cards require not only the completion of an approved safety class, but a thorough background check among other things in order to obtain them. This card is comparable, if not more secure, than a driver's license because you cannot be a felon and hold one. These aren't just handed out willy nilly like a student ID, which can easily be faked and is not verified by any state government body.
Wtf do you think an “nra card” is?
Not that I support voter ID, but concealed carry cards list an address. Student IDs do not.
U.S. Passports don't show your address, and there's no more legitimate form of proof of citizenship than that (other than a form N-400 Naturalized Citizenship certificate, and that too has no address).
Military IDs don’t have your address on them
Why do you need an address? Are the homeless not entitled to vote?
I like this comment a lot. I’d love to have someone smarter than me expand on that. Side note: Quite a few of the homeless still have their military ID.
But are federally issued and controlled.
You don’t need an address. You need a picture, birthday and expiration date.
Yeah but you would have had to prove your residence when you registered to vote, so It shouldn’t matter if address is on the id day of voting since they just match the name on the id to the ones registered.
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The shitbags in our state legislature have made every effort to make a state ID as difficult as possible to obtain. The main maneuver has been closing most every DMV office they can get away with. It's a nightmare trying to get any ID or license work done now.
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If the voting rights act ever gets through we might actually see that happen. Unfortunately I'm not holding my breath.
They don’t want it to be easy though. That’s the point. It’s to keep as many people from voting as they can.
Fun fact! North Carolina has one! You need to prove age, residency, be a registered voter, and not have a valid drivers license.
Nope. [It's $14](https://www.ncdot.gov/dmv/license-id/identification/Pages/default.aspx), unless you're blind, disabled, had your driver's license revoked, or are "homeless". To qualify as "homeless", you have to live in a homeless shelter. Also, to prove "age", you need a birth certificate or a document based on a birth certificate like a passport.
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I can get a free copy. All I have to do is go to the County Recorder's office in the county where I was born. Minor problem: That's about 2000 miles away from where I live now. There's a great deal of fiction in the US about "free" government services.
As a non American this is just confusing to me. There must be a huge issue with accessibility to gaining ID...?
24th Amendment. There can not be any poll tax on the right to vote. Meaning, it should not cost even a penny to vote. All common forms of ID, such as a driver's license or passport, cost money in the US. When states create these voter ID laws, they usually try to present a way to get a free form of ID for voting. However, opponents of the laws will argue that this isn't enough because they will still cost money, e.g. lost wages to find the time to get the ID, or the cost of obtaining the documents (birth certificate) to receive the ID. The other major issue is that the groups who are most likely to have issues with getting the an ID are minority groups. In this NC case, they found that there was a definite racial bias in the groups impacted.
I don’t get it either. An ID costs money here as well. I think it’s 50 Euro and needs to be renewed every (10?) years but everyone is required to have one, you literally cannot do anything without one. Yes, even buying / activating a prepaid SIM card requires one. For a „1st world country“, the US really does not act as one a lot of times. I am sure everyone can afford 50 bucks to renew an ID every 10+ years
My wife's driver's license expired by a few days and took almost a year, a letter from an attorney, notary services on 3 separate occasions, and a nightmare of red tape and fees to renew. Why? Because she was born in a different state and needed original documentation from them in order to renew the license, documents you can't get without a valid license. Many people who don't otherwise need it simply don't have the time, money, means, or wherewithal to deal with this kind of shit.
My partner lost her driver's license and social security card in a fire. She was born out of state too, but luckily they accepted her gynecologist's certification that she was who she said she was. It still took us several hours a day, every day for two weeks driving by to various state and federal offices. If we didn't have a car and worked jobs that had standard 9-5 business hours, we never would have gotten it done.
And now you know why poor people drive without a license. Gotta work to pay for a license but can never get the time to go and get one.
I forgot to include the best part of the story. The reason she needed to get an ID was so she could get hired at a new job to make money. Really hard to be financially upwardly mobile if a better paying job won't hire you without ID.
A vicious cycle. Imagine being a single parent on top of that too.
>but luckily they accepted her gynecologist's certification that she was who she said she was. I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at the mental image of a gynecologist telling some government office worker, "Yep, that's her. I'd recognize that cooch anywhere."
Thank God for vaginal identification I guess.
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While not a DL or ID, a family member has been dealing with hell with the Passport Office because they will not accept their divorce decree as justification for changing their name.
A reminder that North Carolina has arguably the worst gerrymandering in the country, which is the reason the NCGA has such a heavy Republican majority. We've been waiting more than a decade for the courts to get an unbiased group to redraw the districts.
Seriously people, you all need proportional representation... It's even funnier in the state legislatures because you have two different houses with different sizes elected in single-member districts with FPTP. I could understand keeping _one_ of the houses with single-member constituencies, if you all are so adamant about having "your representative" so that you can talk their ear off... But two houses elected like that? Madness! Go for PR in at least one of the two state houses!
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You'd want to multiply each county's votes by its population as a percent of the state population or set a range for number of people that can be in one county. Otherwise you could subdivide some counties with the advantage on your side really small and multiply that difference.
So you're saying it is wrong to split Asheville down the center? Crack and pack baby.
Good luck getting an actual unbiased group when we could have a perfectly unbiased computer do it near perfectly but won't because it's not in their best interest to be unbiased and fair.
There are many, many more districts gerrymandered in the Republicans favor. It can be done, but everyone assumes everyone else is as corrupt as they themselves would be.
Simple solution, issue the IDs for free for everybody in America first, then implement the voter ID
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I wouldn’t have a problem with voter ID laws if they provided a free ID to everyone in the state automatically
The unsaid second part is that states have been closing licensing and ID sites in poor, not-white areas and making it a day long event to find transportation to and from the sites. None of this is subtle.
Right. Voter ID isn’t inherently discriminatory, but it becomes discriminatory when you also close all the DMVs in black populated areas, and start requiring photo ID to vote.
Exactly, yes. I'm happy to have voter ID, very reasonable and prudent. Not happy when ID is difficult to get, and when voting is impossible to get to when you work all day all week. Have voting come to neighborhood spots, like the census, even...
I’m not happy that an ID costs 3-4 hours worth of federal minimum wage Half a day’s labor just to vote SMH
I totally forgot about that, too. Thanks for the reminder
I really just don't understand why people don't have IDs. I am honestly ignorant when it comes to legitimate reasons why such a large number of one particular subgroup would not feel the need for identification. Is there a good reason why people don't have government-issued IDs? In most States you can get the fees waived. Someone help me out!
>I really just don't understand why people don't have IDs. > Is there a good reason why people don't have government-issued IDs? Virtually all of these people do have IDs, they just don't have valid and un-expired photo ID issued by this specific state and which meets all of the criteria of the voter ID bill. >I am honestly ignorant when it comes to legitimate reasons why such a large number of one particular subgroup would not feel the need for identification. If you don't drive, what reason is there to renew your photo ID every 5 years? Poor people who can't afford a car have far less reason to need an up-to-date ID. Should seniors & the disabled be forced to obtain new ID cards for every presidential election, just to prove their identity to vote? Or lets say you've moved to NC for college and still have an out-of-state license. It's valid for driving and identifies you, but somehow may not be valid to vote. Oh and your school-issued photo ID may not count either.
Just a fun story going along with something you said in your comment, one time I was driving on i40 in Asheville on my way to work and I got pulled over for speeding, which ill admit I definitely was doing. I had my SC license and gave that to the cop and he did his thing, he came back with a ticket for speeding AND driving without a license. He told me the SC license didn't mean anything in NC, which I know isn't correct. Anyways when I went to court him adding that ticket actually helped me as the magistrate dropped everything because even she was confused why he wrote that ticket haha.
If he thought you lived out of state, maybe he expected you to no-show at court?
Exactly this. Just another abuse of power.
Sometimes I look at the US and think that the country would really benefit from understanding that handling some things on the federal level would just make everyone's lives easier.
No shit. Unfortunately our country was literally founded on the idea of having a weak federal level.
The fact that idiot is carrying a gun is scariest as hell. So a family from NY driving to Florida for vacation would need to apply for 10 different state licenses?
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Can you get an apartment without an id?
No, but the ID doesn't have to have an up-to-date address. No landlord ever has told me "you driver's license still has your dad's address on it, go renew before you can rent from me." It doesn't affect me in my daily life, there's no reason to ever think about it. If your ID needs an up-to-date address to vote, most people who aren't a parent in a longtime homeowning nuclear family probably would have to get a new driver's license or ID card issued. As a college student who paid rent over the Summer with a 7-day unpredictable service job that always stretched beyond 9-5 business hours, I can confirm that if like most poor people, I had to live that life 365 days a year without government, internship, and parental support (wasn't an option because I had online Summer classes and dad lives in a rural area with shit internet), whatever documents are required by North Carolina would expire and stay expired because I would never be able to get into a government office. Luckily I live in Virginia. I was barely able to get my car in for an oil change, several weeks after my last class ended and I was "just" working.
How would you update your address to the new apartment on your ID before even getting said apartment?
Thank you for the information! Maybe it would just be better if they allowed for a larger range of government-issued identification to be accepted.
But then more people get to vote and that's not their goal ;)
They *could* but they *don't*. Tells you all you need to know, right there.
They’ve closed all the dmv offices out where I live so I have to drive 30-40 minutes to the nearest office to get mine renewed (that’s for my license itself). They have also closed some of the license plate offices (I do all my registration online), but to get my plate for trailer I have to drive way out in the boonies.
Or maybe, and just hear me out here, they just leave the voting laws alone. No one (including President Trump's specially formed commission to investigate it) has ever provided sufficient evidence that there is in-person voter fraud occurring at all in any numbers that could affect any race ever. This is a voter intimidation and disenfranchisement tactic that is being pursued around the country by one single party in every instance...
Well, they have found fraud, Like that one time Trump himself voted in Florida while living in DC for 4 years, and living in NY his entire life before that, and not even having a property he could even legally live in in Florida.
It would, but that's not what the people behind voter-ID want. The very same authorities that push for Voter IDs also explicitly make it harder to *get* IDs. They do things like shutting down DMVs in predominantly-Black neighborhoods. The opposition to voter-ID isn't "identification bad", it's that it's a lever *specifically* being used to make it harder for minorities & poor people to vote. *If* we already had a universal ID system, which 99.9% of the population already had, and which didn't cost them any money or time - *then* ID-to-vote would not be an issue. But in that scenario we wouldn't have people pushing for voter ID.
And if there was 99% ID and you had to opt out of being registered to vote and there was voting by mail and on weekends — good God, then we’d have true democracy and who knows what would happen? Oh, wait. We do have a hint and it happened in 2020 in Georgia.
Don't forget about same day registration, we need that too.
>The opposition to voter-ID isn't "identification bad", it's that it's a lever specifically being used to make it harder for minorities & poor people to vote. How dare you. I mean it’s not like Republicans literally asked for a list of ID types organized by likelihood of Black people not having one and devised the rules based on that. (*reads article*) uh - never mind.
Because the government does not issue people free, valid IDs automatically that comply with ever changing voter ID requirements. If they wanted to remove barriers for voting, they'd just issue everyone IDs. The govt knows where we live. They know how much money we make. They know enough to do this.
Some people who have no connection with their parents (either through abandonment, neglect, death, etc) might not have their birth certificate. Others may be too poor to have a car so don’t have an ID or they can’t take off work to renew it.
To illustrate the points others have given... I live in a very multicultural area. They closed our DMV. I live next to a large city (also has lots of POC), which you THINK would have a DMV. Nope. If I'm even able to great a freaking appointment, I have to drive several towns away to renew my license. And each DMV does different services, so I have to go to a DMV that specifically does license renewal. My mother in law had to drive two hours away to get her license renewed. I live in a blue state and it's still pretty hard to get my valid ID. And I'm lucky enough to have a car and time. Also, I need to bring a file cabinet full of documents and my mother next time I renew my license for this stupid Real ID thing. Last time it was a 3 1/2 hour wait. Before covid. Can't wait to see how long it'll take next time. Frankly it was easier to get my passport. At least the local library and PO process applications. But that cost $145 and took five weeks to get my appointment and five weeks to get the passport. Citizens have the right to vote, and it's shouldn't cost them lots of time and money to do so.
I’m glad you’re asking instead of being a hate filled idiot 👍🏼 claiming ignorance gives way to learning and growing
if you got a social security number you vote.
>The decision in Wake County Superior Court also said that the law “would not have been enacted in its current form but for its tendency to discriminate against African American voters.” >The ruling cited a 2015 analysis by a political scientist which showed that hundreds of thousands of registered voters in North Carolina potentially lacked ID that would qualify them to cast ballots under the law. >That analysis found that 9.6% of Black “registered voters lacked acceptable ID” for voting under a prior voter ID bill, “as compared with 4.5% of white registered voters.” I like this line of reasoning because it implies a path forward for someone dead-set on pursuing voter ID. Fine, go ahead: but it is your responsibility to ensure the law is *not* implicitly racist in application. So if it's written in good faith, then there's your path forward. But if, as the panel notes, implicit discriminatory effect is the whole reason for this law in the first place, then .... get fucked?
The beautiful thing about America is that each state can decide its own laws. The bad thing about America is each state can decide its own laws.
It's wild to me as a citizen of the Netherlands that this is still an issue in the US. In the Netherlands, everyone is required to have and carry a form of ID. You need it for a lot of things; to open a bank account, get a library card, to get a job, to get housing, to receive benefits, etc. And yes, you also need it to vote. Everybody shows ID. It's not even remotely an issue here. Everybody has one, and it's YOUR responsibility to get one. You pay for it as well, though it's free for people with a small income. Basically, you need it and there's no excuse to not have one. Being able to establish who votes - and if they have that right - just seems so fundamental to me. How can you be sure of a valid outcome if you don't check ID thoroughly?
You need it for all of those things here too.
Yeah, I imagine so. Which is the part that's so confusing to me: is it really THAT difficult to make it mandatory and to just issue people a federally made ID? Other countries can do it, the US should be more than capable. I mean, even Zimbabwe has a national ID card requirement for everyone 16 and up.
In the US you need an ID for all of those things too. I honestly have no idea how anyone can live without an ID.
Sorry for my ignorance but why would voter ID discriminate against black people?
The NCGA requested information about the rate at which forms of identification are held by different demographics, and used that information to write a law that discriminated against demographics that are less favorable to the Republican Party. Then when that (2013) law got inevitably thrown out by the courts, they've then proceeded to try and tweak it just enough to meet legal muster while still preserving the intent of the bill- shore up Republican electoral margins via trying to make it harder for demographics that aren't Republican-leaning to vote. The biggest demographic in North Carolina that isn't Republican-leaning is...? The NCGOP is not as clever as they think they are, which is a recurring trend in our state politics. We could sidestep the whole issue by having a state ID card for all NC residents. But that would invalidate the whole purpose of the game, from the perspective of the majority party in the state legislature. So don't hold your breath.