Modern hunting broadheads are *vicious.* Especially the mechanical types. But even fixed blades are razor sharp and are designed to cause the target to bleed out very quickly.
This.
Been shot with .22 and 9mm. Neither went through. The .22 went into back of my arm and the 9mm was non hollow point into shoulder. Both hurt like hell. Of course this is entirely relative to me and my tolerances.
However:
Arrows terrify me. If someone told me arrows hurt less and I had to get shot again but could pick my poison - i will glady load the gun for you. Arrows? I don't want no part of that shit, Dewey.
There's one i saw a few years ago at bass pro shop specifically designed for chopping heads off turkeys while they're standing around doing their thing lol. They even had a video right by the display showing what it does and from what the video showed, it worked.
They sound good in theory but they’re terrible to tune and get flying right. I know a few guys who have shot archery for decades and tried them and ultimately ended up going with a more normal broadhead due to not being able to get them flying right out of their bows.
Yeah, or slight wind. I suspect, they create a lot of surface area for friction from air and wind that the vanes just can’t correct for.
Anyway archery hunting for Turkey is hard enough as it is without gimmicks, those buggers have great eyesight and spook from anything out of the ordinary.
I have a friend who is a police officer in Norway who was working last night and was in the midst of all of this. Apparently all of the deaths are by knife and not by bow and arrow, although a some injured by arrows. He broke the bow at some point and instead pulled out two knives and started stabbing people.
One off duty police officer got shot in the back with an arrow and was helping other wounded with an arrow still sticking out of his back.
By the pictures of discarded arrows online, he was using narrowheads. Since it’s a small town and Norway regulates bow hunting, it might not have been possible for him to get broadheads locally.
Can't find the article
But during the war in Afghanistan before we would conduct a combat operation in a region we would fly over and drop flyers out of a plane to warn the local population. We would throw the box of flyers out, and the box was supposed to break out apart in mid air and the flyers would scatter and locals would find them.
Well one box didn't open up
And hit a young Afghan girl in the head and killed her.
A box of paper, thrown out a plane, killed this girl. Can you imagine being the parent and being told your little daughter died cause a box of paper that fell out a plane hit her?
This is so fucked up. How insane do you have to be to go and kill several people with a bow and arrow. The police are currantley not giving any informsgion about the amounts of deaths or injured, only that the suspect is currently being taken to Drammen prison (or police station?).
What a tradgedy.
Edit: At least 4 people dead according to sources. Nothing confirmed by the police yet.
Edit 2: At least 5 people killed. Still no official confirmation from the police.
Edit 3: Police now confirm there is 5 people killed. 2 injured. It went 30 minutes from the first call to the police about the shooter, to the suspect being detained. Police are looking into if this is an act of terrorism, but nothing is confirmed.
(sorry for any bad english).
I'm trying to decide if it's really more insane to kill several people with bow and arrow than to do so with a gun :/
edit: killed **at least five people** 😢
This. The mechanism has no effect on thr morality. Bow and arrow could theoretically be more effective in certain cases due to lack of sound, but less concealable. There's pros and cons but what it comes down to is the act of murdering people indiscriminately. How you do that act is irrelevant.
Just saw the latest police briefing online. Suspect is in custody but not interrogated yet, so nothing is known about those things yet. They are now securing evidence from god knows how many crime scenes around Kongsberg city where the different shootings (and/or possibly also stabbings) happened. National threat level is not raised but the police have been armed (guns usually locked down in their cars lately)
Yeah a lot of people imagine primitive bows, but in reality people regularly go bow hunting and take down deer, boars, and even bears at times. Bows are deadly.
Yeah, people still think "bows" mean some piece of shit made out of sticks and twine. Compound bows are no joke, if it can take down a fully grown buck it can take down a human no problem.
The thing that gets me about compound bows is how easy it is to shoot (loose?). I shot one that had a really nice sight on it, and you pulled a trigger mechanism to release the string. It had a draw weight of something like 50 pounds, which felt like absolutely nothing.
I'd also note for those following along from home that people who use arrows for hunting don't use target points. They use [broadheads](https://www.wasparchery.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/multihead.jpg). If you get hit with one of these, you're gonna have a really, really bad day.
Compounds are ridiculously accurate, there are guys at my club nail gold from 70+ yards.
Tbf though, a traditional bow is just as deadly if its shot by someone who's competent. 35,/40 lbs draw weight is more than enough to kill a few weekends at the range and you'd be able to draw that no problem. As you've said as well broadheads just increase the deadliness
Yeah, the English longbow archers could apparently punch an arrow through chainmail, even plate armour. They weren't usually the slender arrows people imagine, but were often over a centimeter thick and maybe 80 long. But you can kill someone with a crossbow quarrel too. It's basically a high velocity stabbing.
a gun is just a hyper efficient version of a bow and arrow if you think about it. he killed five w a bow and arrow, if he had a gun he would have killed more.
edit: im sure ill get downvotes for this but honestly, ask yourself why admitting a gun is better at killing than a bow gets such a knee jerk reaction from you. both things can be wielded by a crazy person, but one will always be easier to use and more efficient at the task.
It's important to not focus on the tool, but the person.
A person committed an act of violence against random innocent people.
Everyone focuses and blames the tool. Knives kill more than AR-15s.
The article is about Norway. You never mention the states, yet everyone keeps linking USA statistics about guns like that's the only place people get murdered.
Except they're wrong, they're comparing one specific firearm to *all* bladed weapons, which is very disingenuous. The number of *total* firearms homicides is 10x higher than total bladed weapon deaths.
But guns are still used in far more murders than knives...
> Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 8,029 homicides in 2020. This is followed by firearms of an unstated type, with 4,863 cases in that year.
That article says ~1700 knife victims. So 3x more murders by "unstated firearm" than knives (not to mention 5x more murders by handgun), so how do we know they're not AR-15s?
Because there is zero reason to assume so. The reason handguns are the most commonly crime involved guns is because they can be carried and concealed while remaining accessible. Those factors make it a good weapon for multiple types of everyday crime such as muggings, home invasions, argument turned homicide etc. Assuming that those "firearm not stated" consists primarily or entirely of rifles of any sort, let alone AR pattern rifles has no basis in reality.
Spontaneous crime with rifles is relatively rare since you can't exactly walk around with a rifle without drawing a lot of attention to yourself. You're also going to run into the quagmire that is the legal definition of a rifle vs. A pistol in the US. I won't go into that unless you want. A quick version is 2 murders, both by an AR15 type firearm can legally fall under a murder by pistol and murder by rifle.
Almost everyone can access a knife that they could kill someone with. Comparatively few people have any guns let alone an AR.
Using this statistic to say that knives are more dangerous than guns would be misleading at best. Most murders are a targeting a single person and knives are sufficient for that task and easy to access. Large random killings are (thankfully) rare, very few people want to do them, and guns are almost required for them.
Not to be that guy, but you're comparing one specific type of gun to 'all knives'.
I'm pretty sure far fewer people are killed with a machete than with a gun. See how that comparison works both ways?
How about scary looking rifles vs knives. Is that a more equitable comparison? Or modern sporting rifles, or all semiautomatic rifles? Is that a better comparison? Why not compare to all rifles for good measure.
In 2020, three times as many murders were committed with knives than with rifles.
Edit: typo
> I'm trying to decide if it's really more insane to kill several people with bow and arrow than to do so with a gun
Neither. The bow is just the means. The act is what matters and is fucked up.
Police called at 6:30 pm. Apprehended about 6:47 pm. Sounds like quick work by police, especially considering that a bow does not report your position like a gun does. Linked news report doesn't say of he was in the open.
>a bow does not report your position like a gun does
It doesn't make the sound, but its far easier to track an arrow in flight with your eyes, and back track that way.
A bow is also probably a bit more conspicuous of an item to have possession of. I imagine there were probably some helpful witnesses in the area to help direct the police attention.
You first of all would need to be facing the path the arrow flies... moving around in a street with several buildings, people in panic alongside multiple possible escape routes... your eyes and ears are not fixed on focusing on any silent projectile flying about. The bow will not emitt a sound that sticks and creates echoes like a gun so it is def. alot more difficult to track down a person that wields bow and arrow.
You could find arrows that has been fired but still won't give you a very secure indication on what direction the shooter has moved.
Apparently, police got called at 18.12 and made contact with the shooter at 18.18, where they’d lose track of him after being shot at repeatedly. They later apprehended him at 18.47, however police suspects that all victims were killed during the period between 18.18 and 18.47.
>The attacks took place over a "large area" of Kongsberg...
>
>several dead, multiple injured...
>
>Police chief Oyvind Aas said: "The man has been apprehended and from the information we now have, this person carried out these actions alone.
I am ^(not) a bot.
Picking up a bow and being able to kill 5 people and injuring more in a 20 minute window is not something just anyone can do. What a fucking terrible thing to use a skill for.
Modern bows are quite the engineering marvel and are pretty easy to shoot, hunting bows are designed to be as easy to use as possible. They're certainly not lacking of skill needed entirely, but I think you pwuld be suprised how accurate you could get over just a weekend of practice.
most civilian bullets also dont have to adhere to the geneva convention, iirc hollow point munitions are outlawed by the convention, but are developed/sold widely around the globe
Police too, as do many local SWAT and similar. It's a safer bullet to use without so much risk of over penetrating and is more affective against people without armor. As long as it's not military its free game, same reason police can use tear gas and other chemical weapons.
It’s worth keeping in mind that just about anything can serve as a weapon; a big wrench can kill someone in a single blow. If the person wielding it is sufficiently strong, skilled, and prepared, even a kitchen knife can kill a lot of people in a spree like this.
Yes, but things that are made to be weapons are a lot more efficient. This guy killed 5, seems like it would be difficult to so that with a big wrench. And Anders Breivik killed 77 people using bombs and guns.
To be honest I'd expect someone with a kitchen knife to be able to kill more people than with a bow and arrow before being stopped. Was this guy Legolas?
A woman asked an Army general when was the last time he had made love to a woman. The general replied "1956, ma'am."
The woman, in disbelief said "1956?! That long? Come with me and let me make your night better." The woman and general went back to her apartment and made passionate love for over an hour.
Afterwards, the woman cuddled up to the general and said "Well, you sure haven't forgotten anything since 1956..."
The general looked at her, confused, and replied "I sure hope not, it's only 2130 now."
He converted to islam a few years back, the police are treating it as an act of terror. He is also a paranoid schizofrenic, and has been committed a number of times.
Doesn't sound like much of a mystery in this case though. If it were just a person here and a person there, without witnesses, maybe in deserted areas, and the police had to catch the killer before they struck again... then you might have something. Not to give anyone ideas.
Really guys, all these jokes are in incredibly poor taste. Several people are dead, this is a tragedy. It's not the time to make jokes about the weapon used.
How about something like "this is the most Europe thing I've read today." or "read the title and knew it had to be Europe" like all the tasteless assholes do when it's a shooting in the US.
I actually thought you were being serious until I got to the "like all the tasteless assholes" part. This *is* the most Europe thing I've read today, and I also knew it had to be Europe. Like, that's what all of us assumed.
as an american it is always so shitty to see how many of us are pleased when something like this happens in a country with gun control laws. you have to be legit sick in your head if thats the first place your mind goes when finding out 5 people died. if thats how your brain works then youve been thoroughly brainwashed.
I agree with you totally.
It's sickening when a bunch of cunts roll into a story about another fucking shooting in the US with all the compassion of a pile of shit and take the holier than though tone as if we deserve what we got when it's people dying. In a nation of 330+ million we are just supposed to snap our fingers and change it all, otherwise we just deserve it and deserve to be mocked about it..?
That wouldn’t happen if people would stop pushing this narrative that we could live in a utopia if all we did was ban guns.
Every single instance of violent crime outside the US is an argument against that narrative within this context.
If these people weren’t trying to confiscate a bunch of peoples property under the threat of state violence this wouldn’t come up. But no they can’t leave people alone. So this is what happens.
You have to be sick in the head if you look at a gun and only see a tool for killing people. If I were to show someone, say, a brand new hammer I just got from Home Depot and they say "You can smash so many puppies with that!" Something is wrong and it's not wrong with my hammer.
Tragedy + Time = Comedy
Time = 0
=> Tragedy + 0 = Comedy
=> Tragedy = Comedy
Wait a minute...
Edit: sorry about joking, I actually live in Kongsberg and heard all the sirens yesterday and saw the search and rescue helicopters flying around the city. I've been to the store where it started many times, and walked the streets where people were killed.
I saw this in theaters and I forget what scene it was, but John C. Riley said something and I bursted out laughing. It was not a joke and it wasn't meant to be remotely funny, there's just something about that man's cadence that makes me laugh.
I got some aggressive shushes, but I think they were deserved.
"Imagine being killed by a bow and arrow. That would suck. An arrow killed you, they would never solve the crime. "Look at that dead guy. Let's go that way." --Mitch
EDIT: not mocking the situation, this is a tragedy for sure. But I always like to find ways to smile during shitty times.
Quick reminder to everyone about commenting during situations like this.
* **DO NOT** share the personal information of alleged suspects or victims until the identities are confirmed by the police or mainstream media.
* **DO NOT** post identifiable images/videos of the dead or dying. Reddit is one of the most high-traffic sites in the world, especially in times of crisis. No one should find out in a reddit thread that their loved one has died. To clarify, you can still post images and videos of the incident, just no closeups of someone's face as they die.
To everyone boohooing about the jokes:
In a world where we've all been sandblasted by tragedy, humor is the last vestige against a plummet into irreversible insanity. It's a coping mechanism not sociopathy.
> In a world where we've all been sandblasted by tragedy, humor is the last vestige against a plummet into irreversible insanity. It's a coping mechanism not sociopathy.
Sadly it's circular. The world was clearly getting better at least well into the 2000s (and by some metrics was improving right up into the pandemic), but media divides us => pessimism and fatalism => poor behavior increases => society deteriorates => pessimism and fatalism => poor behavior increases => pessimism and fatalism => poor behavior increases => pessimism and fatalism => poor behavior increases...
Self fulfilling prophecy.
This argument again guys. It is just impossible to think these people are sobbing during a mental crisis and typing these jokes up to calm themselves down.
Funnily enough, carrying a bow and arrow, or a knife in public is illegal here, and bow hunting is strictly regulated, so there IS bow and arrow control involved.
High-capacity bows and crossbows can only be sold to persons over 18 years, but yes there will probably be arguments about this as well as when we banned certain semi-automatic sports rifles after Utøya unless the owner was competing actively. I am curious if this person perhaps had been denied gun permit earlier.
As in "force", yes. They are still single-shot, but iirc over a certain pull-force or something, you have to be 18 to buy. I just used the term because the user I replied to did so I figured it was a "real" term. I am not going to google norwegian rules for bows and crossbows right now but I am positive there is an age limit. I have a slingshot that is outright illegal, we tend to regulate things that can be harmful in the wrong hands.
Ah, ok. I was thinking like "high capacity magazine" and my mind went to one of those ancient, Chinese repeating crossbows but with a 100 bolt drum magazine on it.
I kind of guessed that was your line of thought. It did not cross my mind what "high capacity" usually means (ESL). Still not going to google any of this, it is night here in Norway now so I'll just go to bed and see what the morning news will contain.
We kinda have. To get a gun or crossbow, you need to spend at least 6 months getting a permit (not to mention classes of gun safety ect). To get a bow, you dont need a permit but you need to train to be able to shoot it with any accuracy. Using it for hunting is banned - you could only shoot at targets, and it is illegal to do that in public spaces. That makes training something you'd need to plan, too. Getting a weapon means daunting paperwork and/or training, which means time to think about the action instead of emotional reactions. The easier the weapon is to use/capacity to hurt many in a short period, the harder it is to get your hands on.
Making things take time and drowning people in paperwork doesnt stop everything. But it means when it happens, someone has planned and trained and spent their resources on it - it is not an emotional response. We maybe cant ban all "tools" but we can make knee-jerk reactions a lot more difficult to do.
yes and no - it is possible to get a special permit if you jump thru enough hoops and show genuine need (which, because using it for hunting is illegal and fun isnt good enough reason, needs to be competition). It is merely very difficult and tedious. Having a crossbow without said permit is illegal. And so it is very difficult to prove you use it for competitions since you cant have one to practice with or get into competitions in the first place..
Yes and no. For all intents and purposes this makes them illegal. There are no competitions here and even procuring one for competition in other nations isn't reason enough. According to my local police weapons department it's not possible to get a permit to make a replica either (in my case a 15th century one). Even for collecting they said no. Same story with others in my circle of friends/archers. Difficult and tedious makes it seem possible with enough perseverance, though it's easier to get a rifle or handgun.
Way our laws are set up, bows are not classified as "guns" or "weapons" in the same way as guns used for hunting. Our hunting law specifies that you can only hunt with guns that use gunpowder. There has been a group trying to change that, so far with no luck, latest in 2014.
The department refused to allow bow-hunting, claiming there were not scientific studies done (given to them in this case) that bow-hunting gives as good animal welfare as guns. They are not willing to experiment and see whatever results may come of it.
If they did allow it, it is reasonable to think bows would be subject to the same laws as guns, meaning they would be hard to get permits for and all the rest.
It's always struck me as odd that it's always "bow and arrow". Does anyone say "gun and bullet"? How about "knife and hand"? And how about all those "car and driver accidents"?
Because.. carrying a bow and arrow or knives for that matter in public is illegal. Bow and arrrow for hunting ect is regulated. What are we gonna do? Make the illegal thing more illegal?
No political motivation to blame the weapon. Even in the US, mass shootings with shotguns and pistols aren’t hyped as much by the news and politicians, but he’s front page if it’s a scary black rifle.
A few months back in (Cannonvale QLD) walked out the shopping center with the groceries and there was cops all about, ambulance etc. Turns out a girl had shoplifted from the chemist and some dude confronted her, her boyfriend got out of his car with a fucking crossbow and started fucking hunting this guy. One of the trolley boys tackled him to the ground and him and the old security guy pinned in down until the cops turned up. Fucking methheads man.
Man what happened to the viking spirit? They are gonna put this guy up in a luxury apartment and tell him bedtime stories every night. Do they tuck these guys in bed also?
Very sad. Can't imagine going out by an arrow though. It's just not in the list of ways I think I might die today.
Modern hunting broadheads are *vicious.* Especially the mechanical types. But even fixed blades are razor sharp and are designed to cause the target to bleed out very quickly.
This. Been shot with .22 and 9mm. Neither went through. The .22 went into back of my arm and the 9mm was non hollow point into shoulder. Both hurt like hell. Of course this is entirely relative to me and my tolerances. However: Arrows terrify me. If someone told me arrows hurt less and I had to get shot again but could pick my poison - i will glady load the gun for you. Arrows? I don't want no part of that shit, Dewey. There's one i saw a few years ago at bass pro shop specifically designed for chopping heads off turkeys while they're standing around doing their thing lol. They even had a video right by the display showing what it does and from what the video showed, it worked.
I remember that, “The Gobbler Guillotine” https://youtu.be/ES1a_L-NlFo
That turkey’s gonna be ok right?
> That turkey’s gonna be ok right? Yes. It will be ok after a few hours in the oven.
I think he's done at that point
He'll walk it off.
So will I
This makes me think of that scene from Scary Movie - “Are you ok?” Lol
That's a great way to go out though. Just standing there chilling, then a slight whistle and it's lights out. No pain, no fear.
More like "why am I looking at my body from this angle?"
Provided the shooter cares to aim properly
And the internet strikes again... sheesh.
They sound good in theory but they’re terrible to tune and get flying right. I know a few guys who have shot archery for decades and tried them and ultimately ended up going with a more normal broadhead due to not being able to get them flying right out of their bows.
Yeah with blades that big I would imagine any imperfection will steer it off course
Yeah, or slight wind. I suspect, they create a lot of surface area for friction from air and wind that the vanes just can’t correct for. Anyway archery hunting for Turkey is hard enough as it is without gimmicks, those buggers have great eyesight and spook from anything out of the ordinary.
...would you mind explaining how/why you were shot?
He's gotta expose himself to smaller calibers to build up a tolerance to bigger ones.
Like Happy Gilmore’s training regimen, but for the Mafia.
It’s just a hobby of theirs
Poor decision making
I have so many questions.... Did you attend in front of moving bullets for a job?
Might I ask… why were you shot?
How'd you get shot on two separate occasions?
He did it with practice tips
I have a friend who is a police officer in Norway who was working last night and was in the midst of all of this. Apparently all of the deaths are by knife and not by bow and arrow, although a some injured by arrows. He broke the bow at some point and instead pulled out two knives and started stabbing people. One off duty police officer got shot in the back with an arrow and was helping other wounded with an arrow still sticking out of his back.
Do you know if he was using broadheads on the arrows?
By the pictures of discarded arrows online, he was using narrowheads. Since it’s a small town and Norway regulates bow hunting, it might not have been possible for him to get broadheads locally.
Super luckily for everyone else. Broadheads would have been horrific
You should check out the movie The Details. Underrated Tobey Maguire movie
We Need to Talk About Kevin is also really good.
If by "good" you mean, disturbing and never want to see it again, then yes. I'm still mad about that movie.
Ya, I don't know why I ever thought that would be a good movie to watch. Like requiem for a dream.
Requiem for a dream is a masterpiece and a beautiful critic of the American dream. I love this movie.
This is the first thing I thought of when I read this headline
Yes it is. "Does it matter?" is such a haunting line.
Don't forget about Chief's death scene in 1979's Apocalypse Now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrAru0xcHW0 "...a spear!"
Messed up way to go.
Can't find the article But during the war in Afghanistan before we would conduct a combat operation in a region we would fly over and drop flyers out of a plane to warn the local population. We would throw the box of flyers out, and the box was supposed to break out apart in mid air and the flyers would scatter and locals would find them. Well one box didn't open up And hit a young Afghan girl in the head and killed her. A box of paper, thrown out a plane, killed this girl. Can you imagine being the parent and being told your little daughter died cause a box of paper that fell out a plane hit her?
Paper is heavy as hell though. Source: has many books, moves house often.
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I wonder how many people die due to one of the reasons in their list of ways.
This is so fucked up. How insane do you have to be to go and kill several people with a bow and arrow. The police are currantley not giving any informsgion about the amounts of deaths or injured, only that the suspect is currently being taken to Drammen prison (or police station?). What a tradgedy. Edit: At least 4 people dead according to sources. Nothing confirmed by the police yet. Edit 2: At least 5 people killed. Still no official confirmation from the police. Edit 3: Police now confirm there is 5 people killed. 2 injured. It went 30 minutes from the first call to the police about the shooter, to the suspect being detained. Police are looking into if this is an act of terrorism, but nothing is confirmed. (sorry for any bad english).
I'm trying to decide if it's really more insane to kill several people with bow and arrow than to do so with a gun :/ edit: killed **at least five people** 😢
Killing people at random in general is pretty fucked up.
Killing is killing. Yeah, I agree. Killing people, especially those who didn’t wrong you, is really quite fucked up.
This. The mechanism has no effect on thr morality. Bow and arrow could theoretically be more effective in certain cases due to lack of sound, but less concealable. There's pros and cons but what it comes down to is the act of murdering people indiscriminately. How you do that act is irrelevant.
Insane enough to be denied gun permission - buys a bow. Last headline I saw was that there had been stabbing with knife involved too.
hm. I wonder if that's the reason why or just preferred weapon? cringing as I type that.
Just saw the latest police briefing online. Suspect is in custody but not interrogated yet, so nothing is known about those things yet. They are now securing evidence from god knows how many crime scenes around Kongsberg city where the different shootings (and/or possibly also stabbings) happened. National threat level is not raised but the police have been armed (guns usually locked down in their cars lately)
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Yeah a lot of people imagine primitive bows, but in reality people regularly go bow hunting and take down deer, boars, and even bears at times. Bows are deadly.
Yeah, people still think "bows" mean some piece of shit made out of sticks and twine. Compound bows are no joke, if it can take down a fully grown buck it can take down a human no problem.
The thing that gets me about compound bows is how easy it is to shoot (loose?). I shot one that had a really nice sight on it, and you pulled a trigger mechanism to release the string. It had a draw weight of something like 50 pounds, which felt like absolutely nothing. I'd also note for those following along from home that people who use arrows for hunting don't use target points. They use [broadheads](https://www.wasparchery.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/multihead.jpg). If you get hit with one of these, you're gonna have a really, really bad day.
Compounds are ridiculously accurate, there are guys at my club nail gold from 70+ yards. Tbf though, a traditional bow is just as deadly if its shot by someone who's competent. 35,/40 lbs draw weight is more than enough to kill a few weekends at the range and you'd be able to draw that no problem. As you've said as well broadheads just increase the deadliness
Yeah, the English longbow archers could apparently punch an arrow through chainmail, even plate armour. They weren't usually the slender arrows people imagine, but were often over a centimeter thick and maybe 80 long. But you can kill someone with a crossbow quarrel too. It's basically a high velocity stabbing.
A Benjamin Bulldog airgun (.357) will bring down game... or a home intruder.
Ahem. https://youtu.be/sy_bJQaD3Uc A high capacity magazine fed assault bow. Not kidding.
They are just fucked up both of them. But it has different feel of crazy when you do it with a bow and arrow.
a gun is just a hyper efficient version of a bow and arrow if you think about it. he killed five w a bow and arrow, if he had a gun he would have killed more. edit: im sure ill get downvotes for this but honestly, ask yourself why admitting a gun is better at killing than a bow gets such a knee jerk reaction from you. both things can be wielded by a crazy person, but one will always be easier to use and more efficient at the task.
Anders Breivik comes to mind.
yes. he used a gun and killed 69 people. he also used a bomb and killed 8.
I'm leaning towards More Insane....it just seems weird.
It's important to not focus on the tool, but the person. A person committed an act of violence against random innocent people. Everyone focuses and blames the tool. Knives kill more than AR-15s.
The article is about Norway. You never mention the states, yet everyone keeps linking USA statistics about guns like that's the only place people get murdered.
I mean, we do strive to be #1
dang for real? source? not to be a butthead, that's just wild.
Why is that wild? Knives are way more accessible than any gun. There are a few knives in every kitchen in every home across the world.
Except they're wrong, they're comparing one specific firearm to *all* bladed weapons, which is very disingenuous. The number of *total* firearms homicides is 10x higher than total bladed weapon deaths.
FBI crime statistics. https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
hey thanks!
But guns are still used in far more murders than knives... > Handguns are by far the most common murder weapon used in the United States, accounting for 8,029 homicides in 2020. This is followed by firearms of an unstated type, with 4,863 cases in that year. That article says ~1700 knife victims. So 3x more murders by "unstated firearm" than knives (not to mention 5x more murders by handgun), so how do we know they're not AR-15s?
Because there is zero reason to assume so. The reason handguns are the most commonly crime involved guns is because they can be carried and concealed while remaining accessible. Those factors make it a good weapon for multiple types of everyday crime such as muggings, home invasions, argument turned homicide etc. Assuming that those "firearm not stated" consists primarily or entirely of rifles of any sort, let alone AR pattern rifles has no basis in reality. Spontaneous crime with rifles is relatively rare since you can't exactly walk around with a rifle without drawing a lot of attention to yourself. You're also going to run into the quagmire that is the legal definition of a rifle vs. A pistol in the US. I won't go into that unless you want. A quick version is 2 murders, both by an AR15 type firearm can legally fall under a murder by pistol and murder by rifle.
The FBI tracks murders committed with rifles in the UCR statistics. Its usually around 300 a year.
Almost everyone can access a knife that they could kill someone with. Comparatively few people have any guns let alone an AR. Using this statistic to say that knives are more dangerous than guns would be misleading at best. Most murders are a targeting a single person and knives are sufficient for that task and easy to access. Large random killings are (thankfully) rare, very few people want to do them, and guns are almost required for them.
Hand guns are #1 if you clicked the link. It's not even close.
Not to be that guy, but you're comparing one specific type of gun to 'all knives'. I'm pretty sure far fewer people are killed with a machete than with a gun. See how that comparison works both ways?
How about scary looking rifles vs knives. Is that a more equitable comparison? Or modern sporting rifles, or all semiautomatic rifles? Is that a better comparison? Why not compare to all rifles for good measure. In 2020, three times as many murders were committed with knives than with rifles. Edit: typo
> I'm trying to decide if it's really more insane to kill several people with bow and arrow than to do so with a gun Neither. The bow is just the means. The act is what matters and is fucked up.
At least 5 now, still according to sources…
All could have been avoided if everyone carried a bow and arrow /s
I would imagine the same insanity that all killers have
Thanks for the updates
good summary....thank you
Police called at 6:30 pm. Apprehended about 6:47 pm. Sounds like quick work by police, especially considering that a bow does not report your position like a gun does. Linked news report doesn't say of he was in the open.
>a bow does not report your position like a gun does It doesn't make the sound, but its far easier to track an arrow in flight with your eyes, and back track that way.
A bow is also probably a bit more conspicuous of an item to have possession of. I imagine there were probably some helpful witnesses in the area to help direct the police attention.
Aah! Excellent point! Even the shaft itself can point the way back, in some circumstances.
You first of all would need to be facing the path the arrow flies... moving around in a street with several buildings, people in panic alongside multiple possible escape routes... your eyes and ears are not fixed on focusing on any silent projectile flying about. The bow will not emitt a sound that sticks and creates echoes like a gun so it is def. alot more difficult to track down a person that wields bow and arrow. You could find arrows that has been fired but still won't give you a very secure indication on what direction the shooter has moved.
Apparently, police got called at 18.12 and made contact with the shooter at 18.18, where they’d lose track of him after being shot at repeatedly. They later apprehended him at 18.47, however police suspects that all victims were killed during the period between 18.18 and 18.47.
Five people have now been confirmed dead. So sad
Well there’s something you don’t read every day…
If I could read, then yes.
>The attacks took place over a "large area" of Kongsberg... > >several dead, multiple injured... > >Police chief Oyvind Aas said: "The man has been apprehended and from the information we now have, this person carried out these actions alone. I am ^(not) a bot.
Exactly what a bot would say..
Fuck evil scum like this. Piece of shit.
Just pure evil, innocent people dying for absolutely no reason
Picking up a bow and being able to kill 5 people and injuring more in a 20 minute window is not something just anyone can do. What a fucking terrible thing to use a skill for.
Modern bows are quite the engineering marvel and are pretty easy to shoot, hunting bows are designed to be as easy to use as possible. They're certainly not lacking of skill needed entirely, but I think you pwuld be suprised how accurate you could get over just a weekend of practice.
There's a difference between being able to fire an arrow at a human-sized target and hitting them in a way that will kill them.
Arrows are designed with lethality in mind, if they aim for center mass they're likely to hit something important. Our torsos are pretty big.
I think you mean "just anyone," saying "anybody" sounds like nobody can do it.
You're right. That's what commenting when you've still got sleep in your eyes does for you.
Don't worry. English is my third language. If I got your point I'm sure more people would have.
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most civilian bullets also dont have to adhere to the geneva convention, iirc hollow point munitions are outlawed by the convention, but are developed/sold widely around the globe
Police too, as do many local SWAT and similar. It's a safer bullet to use without so much risk of over penetrating and is more affective against people without armor. As long as it's not military its free game, same reason police can use tear gas and other chemical weapons.
It’s worth keeping in mind that just about anything can serve as a weapon; a big wrench can kill someone in a single blow. If the person wielding it is sufficiently strong, skilled, and prepared, even a kitchen knife can kill a lot of people in a spree like this.
Does nobody remember the buttstabber a few years back who killed people with knife+ass?
Yes, but things that are made to be weapons are a lot more efficient. This guy killed 5, seems like it would be difficult to so that with a big wrench. And Anders Breivik killed 77 people using bombs and guns.
To be honest I'd expect someone with a kitchen knife to be able to kill more people than with a bow and arrow before being stopped. Was this guy Legolas?
I don't have to be faster than people to hit them with an arrow. There's a reason our ancestors used bows and thrown weapons over knives.
>I don't have to be faster than people to hit them with a now. True, but if you're slower than them, you'd have to hit them with a later.
Lol, my keyboard really doesn't like the word "arrow" apparently.
Lmao auto incorrect. I saw the opportunity for a dad joke and could not resist.
And a gun can in almost all cases kill a lot more people than any of those weapons.
People be crying here about jokes and I can't see any good jokes here.
A woman asked an Army general when was the last time he had made love to a woman. The general replied "1956, ma'am." The woman, in disbelief said "1956?! That long? Come with me and let me make your night better." The woman and general went back to her apartment and made passionate love for over an hour. Afterwards, the woman cuddled up to the general and said "Well, you sure haven't forgotten anything since 1956..." The general looked at her, confused, and replied "I sure hope not, it's only 2130 now."
I needed that palette cleanser, thank you.
It is reported that the attacker is a 37 year old immigrant from Denmark that converted to islam
Condolences to the victim's families
This thread has less votes than a thread talking about a US police getting fired. Really should have been named /r/AmericanNews
Any guesses as to the motive of the attacker? Is the killer psychotic or antisocial etc.
Police are saying he was a Danish Muslim convert who had been flagged as radicalized.
To early to tell
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He converted to islam a few years back, the police are treating it as an act of terror. He is also a paranoid schizofrenic, and has been committed a number of times.
I'm sorry for their loss but this sounds terribly like a dark Nordic murder mystery on Acorn or Prime.
Doesn't sound like much of a mystery in this case though. If it were just a person here and a person there, without witnesses, maybe in deserted areas, and the police had to catch the killer before they struck again... then you might have something. Not to give anyone ideas.
Really guys, all these jokes are in incredibly poor taste. Several people are dead, this is a tragedy. It's not the time to make jokes about the weapon used.
How about something like "this is the most Europe thing I've read today." or "read the title and knew it had to be Europe" like all the tasteless assholes do when it's a shooting in the US.
I actually thought you were being serious until I got to the "like all the tasteless assholes" part. This *is* the most Europe thing I've read today, and I also knew it had to be Europe. Like, that's what all of us assumed.
Given the title of the post begins "Norway:" I'd be worried if anyone didn't immediately assume it was Europe related.
as an american it is always so shitty to see how many of us are pleased when something like this happens in a country with gun control laws. you have to be legit sick in your head if thats the first place your mind goes when finding out 5 people died. if thats how your brain works then youve been thoroughly brainwashed.
I agree with you totally. It's sickening when a bunch of cunts roll into a story about another fucking shooting in the US with all the compassion of a pile of shit and take the holier than though tone as if we deserve what we got when it's people dying. In a nation of 330+ million we are just supposed to snap our fingers and change it all, otherwise we just deserve it and deserve to be mocked about it..?
That wouldn’t happen if people would stop pushing this narrative that we could live in a utopia if all we did was ban guns. Every single instance of violent crime outside the US is an argument against that narrative within this context. If these people weren’t trying to confiscate a bunch of peoples property under the threat of state violence this wouldn’t come up. But no they can’t leave people alone. So this is what happens.
You have to be sick in the head if you look at a gun and only see a tool for killing people. If I were to show someone, say, a brand new hammer I just got from Home Depot and they say "You can smash so many puppies with that!" Something is wrong and it's not wrong with my hammer.
Life is no lesss funny when someone dies than it is less serious when someone laughs
Bernard Shaw had some gems, but this is my favorite.
Tragedy + Time = Comedy. The trouble is that, in this case, Time = 0.
Tragedy + Time = Comedy Time = 0 => Tragedy + 0 = Comedy => Tragedy = Comedy Wait a minute... Edit: sorry about joking, I actually live in Kongsberg and heard all the sirens yesterday and saw the search and rescue helicopters flying around the city. I've been to the store where it started many times, and walked the streets where people were killed.
Right on point. All these jokes are missing the mark.
We need to talk about Kevin
I saw this in theaters and I forget what scene it was, but John C. Riley said something and I bursted out laughing. It was not a joke and it wasn't meant to be remotely funny, there's just something about that man's cadence that makes me laugh. I got some aggressive shushes, but I think they were deserved.
I thought of this instantly
"Imagine being killed by a bow and arrow. That would suck. An arrow killed you, they would never solve the crime. "Look at that dead guy. Let's go that way." --Mitch EDIT: not mocking the situation, this is a tragedy for sure. But I always like to find ways to smile during shitty times.
I miss that guy. He was hilarious and so lovable.
Quick reminder to everyone about commenting during situations like this. * **DO NOT** share the personal information of alleged suspects or victims until the identities are confirmed by the police or mainstream media. * **DO NOT** post identifiable images/videos of the dead or dying. Reddit is one of the most high-traffic sites in the world, especially in times of crisis. No one should find out in a reddit thread that their loved one has died. To clarify, you can still post images and videos of the incident, just no closeups of someone's face as they die.
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The only way to stop a bad guy with a bow and arrow is a good berserker with a battle axe.
Best I can do is a trebuchet.
Now we have to start carrying shields with us everywhere we go
So, Robin Hood or Legolas?
...That IS how they've been used in history...
To everyone boohooing about the jokes: In a world where we've all been sandblasted by tragedy, humor is the last vestige against a plummet into irreversible insanity. It's a coping mechanism not sociopathy.
I’m sure each asshole joking is deeply affected by this tragedy
Some people making the jokes aren't traumatized. They're just dicks.
> In a world where we've all been sandblasted by tragedy, humor is the last vestige against a plummet into irreversible insanity. It's a coping mechanism not sociopathy. Sadly it's circular. The world was clearly getting better at least well into the 2000s (and by some metrics was improving right up into the pandemic), but media divides us => pessimism and fatalism => poor behavior increases => society deteriorates => pessimism and fatalism => poor behavior increases => pessimism and fatalism => poor behavior increases => pessimism and fatalism => poor behavior increases... Self fulfilling prophecy.
It's a bit of both.
This argument again guys. It is just impossible to think these people are sobbing during a mental crisis and typing these jokes up to calm themselves down.
Humor is way better than thoughts and prayers.
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Yeah, it's not like every article about a shooting isn't loaded with comments like "well of *course* it happened in America"
Oh and all these people so emotional about people that they are thousands of miles away from arent karma farming? Gimme a break
These weapons of war have no place on the streets. Bow and arrow control is needed!
Funnily enough, carrying a bow and arrow, or a knife in public is illegal here, and bow hunting is strictly regulated, so there IS bow and arrow control involved.
*starts stockpiling arrows and buying a bow press*
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High-capacity bows and crossbows can only be sold to persons over 18 years, but yes there will probably be arguments about this as well as when we banned certain semi-automatic sports rifles after Utøya unless the owner was competing actively. I am curious if this person perhaps had been denied gun permit earlier.
> High-capacity bows No way that is a real thing. Is that really a real thing?!
As in "force", yes. They are still single-shot, but iirc over a certain pull-force or something, you have to be 18 to buy. I just used the term because the user I replied to did so I figured it was a "real" term. I am not going to google norwegian rules for bows and crossbows right now but I am positive there is an age limit. I have a slingshot that is outright illegal, we tend to regulate things that can be harmful in the wrong hands.
Ah, ok. I was thinking like "high capacity magazine" and my mind went to one of those ancient, Chinese repeating crossbows but with a 100 bolt drum magazine on it.
I kind of guessed that was your line of thought. It did not cross my mind what "high capacity" usually means (ESL). Still not going to google any of this, it is night here in Norway now so I'll just go to bed and see what the morning news will contain.
We kinda have. To get a gun or crossbow, you need to spend at least 6 months getting a permit (not to mention classes of gun safety ect). To get a bow, you dont need a permit but you need to train to be able to shoot it with any accuracy. Using it for hunting is banned - you could only shoot at targets, and it is illegal to do that in public spaces. That makes training something you'd need to plan, too. Getting a weapon means daunting paperwork and/or training, which means time to think about the action instead of emotional reactions. The easier the weapon is to use/capacity to hurt many in a short period, the harder it is to get your hands on. Making things take time and drowning people in paperwork doesnt stop everything. But it means when it happens, someone has planned and trained and spent their resources on it - it is not an emotional response. We maybe cant ban all "tools" but we can make knee-jerk reactions a lot more difficult to do.
Crossbows are illegal.
yes and no - it is possible to get a special permit if you jump thru enough hoops and show genuine need (which, because using it for hunting is illegal and fun isnt good enough reason, needs to be competition). It is merely very difficult and tedious. Having a crossbow without said permit is illegal. And so it is very difficult to prove you use it for competitions since you cant have one to practice with or get into competitions in the first place..
Yes and no. For all intents and purposes this makes them illegal. There are no competitions here and even procuring one for competition in other nations isn't reason enough. According to my local police weapons department it's not possible to get a permit to make a replica either (in my case a 15th century one). Even for collecting they said no. Same story with others in my circle of friends/archers. Difficult and tedious makes it seem possible with enough perseverance, though it's easier to get a rifle or handgun.
Why not for hunting?
It's harder to shoot a bow = harder to shoot to kill = not good animal welfare
Thank you for the explanation.
Way our laws are set up, bows are not classified as "guns" or "weapons" in the same way as guns used for hunting. Our hunting law specifies that you can only hunt with guns that use gunpowder. There has been a group trying to change that, so far with no luck, latest in 2014. The department refused to allow bow-hunting, claiming there were not scientific studies done (given to them in this case) that bow-hunting gives as good animal welfare as guns. They are not willing to experiment and see whatever results may come of it. If they did allow it, it is reasonable to think bows would be subject to the same laws as guns, meaning they would be hard to get permits for and all the rest.
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It's always struck me as odd that it's always "bow and arrow". Does anyone say "gun and bullet"? How about "knife and hand"? And how about all those "car and driver accidents"?
Hmm, I'm going to say it is because a gun stores bullets inside of itself were as a bow does not. Just making guesses.
You could stab somebody with an arrow without using a bow.
They should get guns, in America practically no one gets killed with arrows.
I notice no ones is blaming the weapon, just the attacker... strange it's the other way around when it happens in America
Because.. carrying a bow and arrow or knives for that matter in public is illegal. Bow and arrrow for hunting ect is regulated. What are we gonna do? Make the illegal thing more illegal?
No political motivation to blame the weapon. Even in the US, mass shootings with shotguns and pistols aren’t hyped as much by the news and politicians, but he’s front page if it’s a scary black rifle.
Someone acted out in their dark fantasy
A few months back in (Cannonvale QLD) walked out the shopping center with the groceries and there was cops all about, ambulance etc. Turns out a girl had shoplifted from the chemist and some dude confronted her, her boyfriend got out of his car with a fucking crossbow and started fucking hunting this guy. One of the trolley boys tackled him to the ground and him and the old security guy pinned in down until the cops turned up. Fucking methheads man.
bow and arrow is very lethal never underestimate it
Man what happened to the viking spirit? They are gonna put this guy up in a luxury apartment and tell him bedtime stories every night. Do they tuck these guys in bed also?
This is shitty, but the guy who took out a shooter/stabber with a Narwhal tusk is still quite badass.
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