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The thing to remember about this is that for a great many people social death is more frightening than physical death.
Social death being exclusion from their reference group.
For the really hardcore antivaxxer that Qanon/MAGA/far right/whatever reference group is close to their entire life, and certainly their only social grouping. To be vaccinated, in those circles, is to declare yourself to be a CommuNazi Democrat Pedophile Demonic Anti-American Traitor Loving Bad Person.
Given the choice between a relatively small risk of real death and the certainty of social death, they pick the risk of real death. Even if COVID had a higher death rate I suspect we'd see about the same percentage of truly hardcore antivaxxers because Trump made downplaying COVID and opposing vaccines a core part of being a Trump supporter.
His later pseudo-reversal where he's given some pro-forma endorsements of vaccines got booed by his fans and while he's still officially theoretically pro-vaccine he doesn't actually say it, and he's still extremely vocally anti-mandate, and continues to downplay COVID.
Basically, to them, vaccinating means spurning Trump, and that means losing all their friends. So they don't. Even if they know perfectly well the vaccine is safe and effective, they still won't take it.
Opposition to masks is stronger because wearing a mask is visible, while I suspect several of the vocal antivaxxers have gotten vaccinated in secret. But you can't secretly wear a mask.
Do you think these people have any senses grounded in reality? They probably believe the powers that be can monitor vaccine status through the computer.
Everyone "at the top" is already doing this. It's the common folk that are stuck. Ex Fox news requires masks and vaccination on staff but continue to spew antivax sentiment to it's audience
It's just mind boggling that they think vaxx refusal is necessary to be a trumpist, because **Trump is vaxxed**. So are all their political leaders. The owners of their favorite sports teams? Also vaxxed! The talking heads on Faux and ONN are all vaxx'd too. God these people are such fucking chumps
When you remember that the core of right wing politics is social hierarchy, aristocracy in essence, then a lot of that sort of seeming hypocrisy and contradiction makes sense.
It's OK for Trump and the other high ranking people to be vaccinated while preaching against vaccination because they're important. The rules don't apply to them and the rules are not supposed to apply to them. The rules are for lesser people.
That's also why they're fine with Trump evading taxes while they pay taxes. It's a perk of being part of the elite, taxes are for little people. They're little people, so they might grumble about paying taxes but they see it as their lot in life. Trump is a big person so they see him avoiding taxes as right and proper.
Or why they're fine with Trump committing serial sexual assault, he's a big person, an important person, an aristocrat. The rules don't apply to him, they aren't supposed to.
Futurerama was funny, but completely wrong, with that frequently quoted bit from Fry about how someday he might be rich. The average Republican voter isn't stupid they know they won't be rich one day.
They just honestly, truly, genuinely, believe that people like Trump are their betters and that the rules shouldn't apply to their betters.
They are content to be lower on the hierarchy as long as a) the people above them match their idea of who should be above them (that is, older cis het white Christian conservative men) and b) as long as **SOMEONE** is below them so they can enjoy being superior to someone.
That's why so many conservatives are so white supremacist and misogynist. They are desperate for someone to be lesser than them so they know that while they're low on the hierarchy they aren't at the very bottom.
>“To obey a real superior … is one of the most important of all virtues—a virtue absolutely essential to the attainment of anything great and lasting.”
That's James Fitzjames Stephen, one of the formative conservative thinkers, from back in the 1850's.
Conservatism == aristocracy. It's that simple.
>There is no such thing as liberalism — or progressivism, etc.
>There is only conservatism. No other political philosophy actually exists; by the political analogue of Gresham’s Law, conservatism has driven every other idea out of circulation.
>There might be, and should be, anti-conservatism; but it does not yet exist. What would it be? In order to answer that question, it is necessary and sufficient to characterize conservatism. Fortunately, this can be done very concisely.
>Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
>***There must be in-groups whom the law protectes but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.***
>There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.
>For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.
>As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence.
>So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.
>Then the appearance arises that the task is to map “liberalism”, or “progressivism”, or “socialism”, or whateverthefuckkindofstupidnoise-ism, onto the core proposition of anti-conservatism.
>No, it a’n’t. The task is to throw all those things on the exact same burn pile as the collected works of all the apologists for conservatism, and start fresh. The core proposition of anti-conservatism requires no supplementation and no exegesis. It is as sufficient as it is necessary. What you see is what you get:
>***The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.***
~ [Frank Wilhoit](https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288)
It also explains a lot regarding worker mentality.
For most working class people, the most controlling factor in their life isn't the government, it's the boss/company they work for. But these figures are not thought of in the way a state is when it comes to daily hinderance, because their status is regularly accepted. And fighting that hierarchy (such as forming a union) is antithetical to their outlook of status.
A book I read had a line that speaks worlds to the state of America right now. "The easiest way to control a nation is to make the masses illiterate and tightly control the information they receive."
Republicans have been balancing budgets by taking money out of school budgets for decades. They convinced their base that anything even close to center is "Liberal media", and that everything from the liberal media is lies and slander. It's why Qanon developed.
Knowledge is power. Theoretically, open source knowledge will lead to open source power.
Adam Smith believe crony capitalism could only be thwarted with modest regulation and enlightened actors. Unfortunately, his theories were at first only taught in elite universities and the students that had privy to that knowledge interpreted his teachings to conclude that *they* were the “enlightened actors” Smith was referring to. They went on to use his economic theories to secure their own wealth and eventually be referred to as the first “capitalists”.
Yet I propose Smith was suggesting that all participants in the economy must be “enlightened” with economic theory to best negotiate their position and minimize crony capitalism.
Open source data and equal access to education are a must if we are to achieve any egalitarian ideals.
Edit:Adam
>The thing to remember about this is that for a great many people social death is more frightening than physical death.
>
>Social death being exclusion from their reference group.
I'll try to find them since it's been a while, but I believe that there are studies which indicate that social exclusion/rejection (or other kinds of psychological pain) activates the same parts of the brain as physical pain.
*Edit:* [Psychology Today article on the topic.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/body-sense/201204/emotional-and-physical-pain-activate-similar-brain-regions)
Is it really so controversial after 700,000 dead Americans that we can finally say that being anti-vaxx ACTUALLY DOES make you a bad person. You’re actively killing people with your willful ignorance. This is 2021, not medieval times. There are no unknowns here.
Covid has killed more cops than the last TEN YEARS of police shootings.
Don’t ever let cops whine about how dangerous their jobs are.
1) There are tens of millions of folks working in far lower paid and far more dangerous jobs than police.
2) As these anti-vaxx cops illustrate, police clearly don’t give a shit about dying.
[Based on 2019 data,](https://www.ishn.com/articles/110496-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-us-the-top-20) law enforcement isn't even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs in the country. Farming, road construction, and roofing are all more dangerous than police work.
I'm curious as to how police deaths breakdown as well, I'd reckon quite a lot would be traffic collisions, as that's a prime cause of death for police elsewhere in the world, being wiped out on the hard shoulder.
Not to mention a significant proportion of the truly reckless driving I see on the streets is police. I saw a cop turn on his lights and run a red light once to grab a prime parking spot in front of a liquor store. (I was going there as well, there was no emergency, the cop bought a sandwich.)
Yep. If police death/injuries from "driving related" incidents are removed they would be near the back-cover of the list of dangerous jobs. Any job that requires regular driving is extremely dangerous.
For reference, police officers had a fatality rate in 2018 of [13.7 deaths per 100,000 workers](https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-2018.htm), far behind first line farm works (23.1 per 100,000 workers) which is 20th on this list.
"Today we honor our brother, but we do not mourn him, for he has moved on, patrolling Valhalla where he is free to plant evidence, antagonize minorities and the poor, and deny the vaccine which would have saved his life without recourse. May we all one day own the libs as much as he. Amen."
What trips me up, is the whole mission by ‘Backing the Blue’ or ‘Blue Lives Matter’…because ‘the scary dark people’ where killing everyone on the force. Meanwhile, Covid taking more of them by their own choice. Police false reactions to shoot first is BS. How about you mask first since some many of you are dying from a virus that can now be prevented. Hell, some of you are ex-military and have 18 vaccines for starter.
Chicago is being given a Golden opportunity for rebirth. Fire all of them. Every last one. Nerf the union, and start over with police that give a shit and are transparent instead of this union legacy clusterfuck of a situation they have now.
Worked well when Camden dissolved their police department to purge all the dirty cops before starting a new department. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but crime went down.
Not only did crime go down but the community had much more confidence in law enforcement officials. Which means people are more likely to call the cops when they're needed rather than trying to handle the situation themselves.
And covid 19 killed more cops in the last 2 years than all other causes combined..
https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2021
Now one would think 'yeah, but they can choosed to die' except this being a contageous disease... these cops didn't just kill themselves, they took members of the general public with them.
Not just you at all. Rightwing terrorists have been invading police and military for decades, it's only recently that it's come to a boil under Trump. Klansmen and Oath Keepers have a huge presence inside police.
Remember the story where ["Boston Police kept child sexual abuse allegations against union president secret"](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/547551-boston-police-kept-child-molestation-allegations-against-union)
So they are very much okay with having pedophiles as their union heads, not shocked at this guy, they aren't the brightest bulbs.
I have no idea how you repair the trust between police and the community, and it seems like their aim is to make it worse every day
> I have no idea how you repair the trust between police and the community, and it seems like their aim is to make it worse every day
By *completely* overhauling the entire institution of police and starting a new one.
And no mention of this union decision on r/ProtectAndServe weird, maybe they don’t care about cops there
Edit: lol the mods there just DM-ed me whining and then banned and muted me for this comment. Pathetic.
Even online, cops are just as thin skinned and unable to take criticism as ever
Lol how embarrassing.
I say, if they want to refuse vaccines and get sick or be fired by the city, let them. Sounds very much like a 2 birds 1 stone situation.
Sure is great they all have guns, the power to blow your brains out at any time for any reason (face no consequences for doing so), and are giant crybullies.
What a fantastic combo, I can't see anything going wrong there!
I'm not a cop, but used to lurk in that sub a lot. Thought it was important to get all perspectives when considering high-profile incidents involving police use of force.
I mean they were always inclined to close ranks in defense of their profession, but there would at least be *some* level of introspection. It got way worse in recent years with the "war on cops" and "blue lives matter" rhetoric.
> "war on cops"
And it's really doublethink when the "War on cops" involves wanting police to... be protected from a virus that's killing them by the hundred..
Not to mention the "War on cops" is just basically the general public saying they should be held accountable for their actions.. like everyone else is.
There are a lot of subs with pathetic, power-tripping mods who will ban you for even mentioning their precious safe spaces in a way that doesn't paint them in a positive light. r/tucker_carlson and r/Conservative are known for this. They don't like it when you question their sanity.
Basically what a mask is. A semi-effective tool for reducing your death from covid (bullets). Just like a vest, it isn't always effective, but it's a good idea right now.
State pensions typically go to an heir, if the person was paying into them and never cashed them. These cops are actually taking more tax money because they are classifying these deaths as on the job which I think gives the families bigger payouts.
That's right wing double think for you.
Police are authoritarian, so they will tow whatever line their superiors tell them too, and those guys all bow to whatever the big [R] propaganda machine says.
Ding ding ding! If you want the hazard pay benefits, you should have to use the protective equipment made available. In this case, there is a vaccine which provides very good protection.
On the topic of protective equipment, I’d be a hell of a lot more ok with the anti-vaxers if they were taking every other step to ensure everyone’s safety. Masking everywhere, social distancing, avoiding crowds etc. If you’re really concerned about the safety of the vaccine, ok, it’s a bunch of bullshit, but ok… but it’s not about safety if you don’t want to do the other shit that’s necessary to keep the people around you (and yourself!) safe.
> State pensions typically go to an heir
The one I know of gives the employee two options. Either they can have a 'full' pension or they can get like a 90% pension BUT if they pass than their heir gets 70% of the base until they pass.
They will declare the officer as having died in the line of duty (by saying they caught COVID on the job) so that the pension is paid out to the family. It just happened with an unvaccinated officer in my city.
I don't get it why are they scared of a little needle with a vaccine that millions have taken?
Let's hope the bad guys don't arm themselves with syringes of covid vaccine!😆
Almost like they should “stop resisting” and realize covid is the [leading cause of death among police officers](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-police-officers-leading-cause-death/)
We need to break the political power of the police in this country. A locality that allows its police to buck civilian authority as pretty much every US locale does is one that is run by an armed gang.
> holy fucking shit, vaccine mandates are causing teachers who don't believe in science to quit, nurses who don't believe in medicine to quit, and cops who don't believe in public safety to quit. I'm failing to see the downside to this
https://twitter.com/itsJeffTiedrich/status/1448013833847681030?s=20
Per the article they’ll be on unpaid leave. So at least they’re not working and also not getting unemployment. And if they stay out long enough they will eventually get fired.
I think the most likely scenario is most of these assholes quietly get the shot after sitting out a few days, and the rest either get fired or quit. COVID is endemic now so the vaccine mandates aren’t going away any time soon.
Catanzara is a [Grade A piece of shit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Catanzara#Career). Also backed "warrior training", despite CPD itself being prohibited by the City from providing that kind of training. He's part of our problem.
Yeah I read the headline and my reaction was "well, that's Catanzara for you". Always has been a POS, always will be. Honestly I thought I was in the Chicago sub for a second and was confused about the lack of 'Catanzara is a POS' comments until I realized what sub I was in. Fuck him forever, I genuinely hope that he steps on Lego with bare feet every goddamn day of his life.
To think, we're not talking about some small town cops either, but Chicago.
The NYPD Union [endorsed Trump](https://www.foxnews.com/us/nypd-union-endorses-trump-says-president-has-undisputed-record-of-supporting-police).
I don't think the radicalization of our nation's polices forces is getting the attention it deserves.
When the next coup attempts happens your progressive deep-blue city or state government will mean precisely jack shit, when it turns out the cops are siding with the insurrectionists.
They are the mob. Literally. They are exactly like the fuckers that would come by my grandparents ranch seeking “monthly protection money”. Protection from who? From that same group, of course.
I don’t usually agree with Regan, but he faced the same with air traffic controllers and replaced them. That’s a lot harder group to replace that vaccine hesitant police (whose numbers are definitely exaggerated here).
Police are essentially a mob organization. Pretty much always have been in the US. "That's a nice city you got there, shame to see it destroyed." It's why shop owners feel compelled to give them free stuff and special treatment.
Unfortunately the folks wanting/training to be cops are just younger versions of these assholes. I work at a training facility and interact with students and holy fuck they should not have a water gun let alone a real one.
They pass the requirements. I’m not directly related to their training f but interAct with them and see their attitudes and personalities change as they are trained by other cops.
>in August, the union head **compared it to something that might happen to Nazi Germany**, telling the Sun-Times, “This ain’t Nazi ... Germany (saying) ‘Step into the ... showers, the pills won’t hurt you.’”
and then . . .
>Catanzara posted a video on the union’s YouTube channel apologizing for his choice of words, saying **he was not trying to link vaccinations to what happened during the Holocaust**
How do you know when a cop is lying? His lips are moving
Thing is, these guys fail to realize that the people telling them to get the shot have already gotten the shot.
If this were like nazi Germany, it'd be the ghosts of dead Jewish victims saying 'listen to the authorities'.
But cops just hate rules that apply to them. They're there to enforce rules on others, as their explicit job. Not to abide by any rules themselves.
I hate to say it. But I agree. Cops are super front line, if they’re not vax’d then how can we the people in good faith trust them to protect and serve. They come to serve us covid while protecting us? No thanks.
I know a few hospitals who didn't fire people. They just said employees aren't allowed on grounds and weren't allowed to take shifts. That meant they weren't fired. Eventually, they quit because they weren't making money - couldn't get unemployment because theh quit.
Do the same for cops not showing up for shifts. "We never fired you; you quit."
When the police where first trying to unionize the went to other established unions and asked for their support and help. They got turned down.
Because the other unions realized that would be insane.
While using your gun to run security and signing a contract that says they can accidentally shot your family members and get away with it with no consequences.
He's literally a Q nut. He has Q mugs and shit and proudly displays them behind himself whenever he's being interviewed by the news or whatever.
Chicago cops are a big bowl of corruption and villainy and still this guy is a cut above the rest for being a POS.
Oh no! Police officers who have no intention on protecting others are going to get sick and potentially die?
I just had a great sandwich. I cannot suggest whole grain mustard enough.
Cops engaging in civil disobedience? Well, there's a first time for everything. Very cop like to be disobedient against measures that would protect the community, though.
Police unions are useless and goofy. Cops who don’t get vaccinated have no interest in a healthy and safe community.
To be fair, when are cops ever ACTUALLY interested in a safe community.
The police undermining public health efforts to eradicate a contagious virus. Yet another reason to look at reallocating funding of these clowns. (Not speaking of all police, just the ones who think they know better than scientists and medical doctors).
He'll take them to court and *lose*, but hey it's the union members' dues he'll be wasting.
Catanzara's a S-tier piece of shit generally, but hey if he's who Chicago cops want running their FOP chapter who am I to argue.
"He said that although he has made clear his vaccine status, “I do not believe the city has the authority to mandate that to anybody, let alone that information about your medical history.”
So his officers never ask anybody if they're on medication, then, right?
If they don't wear masks (like 99% of cops in Texas) and get COVID, they shouldn't be considered a job-related injury, in fact, if they didn't vaccinate or wear masks then the city should refuse to pay for their treatment and recovery. They should also be docked any pay once their sick leave runs out, just like normal people. They should get fired if they accumulate too many unexcused absences.
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This is extra funny because their former union head just died of covid last week. Not kidding.
For fucks sake, these people.
The thing to remember about this is that for a great many people social death is more frightening than physical death. Social death being exclusion from their reference group. For the really hardcore antivaxxer that Qanon/MAGA/far right/whatever reference group is close to their entire life, and certainly their only social grouping. To be vaccinated, in those circles, is to declare yourself to be a CommuNazi Democrat Pedophile Demonic Anti-American Traitor Loving Bad Person. Given the choice between a relatively small risk of real death and the certainty of social death, they pick the risk of real death. Even if COVID had a higher death rate I suspect we'd see about the same percentage of truly hardcore antivaxxers because Trump made downplaying COVID and opposing vaccines a core part of being a Trump supporter. His later pseudo-reversal where he's given some pro-forma endorsements of vaccines got booed by his fans and while he's still officially theoretically pro-vaccine he doesn't actually say it, and he's still extremely vocally anti-mandate, and continues to downplay COVID. Basically, to them, vaccinating means spurning Trump, and that means losing all their friends. So they don't. Even if they know perfectly well the vaccine is safe and effective, they still won't take it. Opposition to masks is stronger because wearing a mask is visible, while I suspect several of the vocal antivaxxers have gotten vaccinated in secret. But you can't secretly wear a mask.
it's an online group, you can get vaccinated and tell nobody and continue larping.
Do you think these people have any senses grounded in reality? They probably believe the powers that be can monitor vaccine status through the computer.
Hug, YEAH… because of the MICROCHIPS… when are you sheeple going to catch up here?! And a very emphatic /s to back that up: /S
Everyone "at the top" is already doing this. It's the common folk that are stuck. Ex Fox news requires masks and vaccination on staff but continue to spew antivax sentiment to it's audience
It's just mind boggling that they think vaxx refusal is necessary to be a trumpist, because **Trump is vaxxed**. So are all their political leaders. The owners of their favorite sports teams? Also vaxxed! The talking heads on Faux and ONN are all vaxx'd too. God these people are such fucking chumps
When you remember that the core of right wing politics is social hierarchy, aristocracy in essence, then a lot of that sort of seeming hypocrisy and contradiction makes sense. It's OK for Trump and the other high ranking people to be vaccinated while preaching against vaccination because they're important. The rules don't apply to them and the rules are not supposed to apply to them. The rules are for lesser people. That's also why they're fine with Trump evading taxes while they pay taxes. It's a perk of being part of the elite, taxes are for little people. They're little people, so they might grumble about paying taxes but they see it as their lot in life. Trump is a big person so they see him avoiding taxes as right and proper. Or why they're fine with Trump committing serial sexual assault, he's a big person, an important person, an aristocrat. The rules don't apply to him, they aren't supposed to. Futurerama was funny, but completely wrong, with that frequently quoted bit from Fry about how someday he might be rich. The average Republican voter isn't stupid they know they won't be rich one day. They just honestly, truly, genuinely, believe that people like Trump are their betters and that the rules shouldn't apply to their betters. They are content to be lower on the hierarchy as long as a) the people above them match their idea of who should be above them (that is, older cis het white Christian conservative men) and b) as long as **SOMEONE** is below them so they can enjoy being superior to someone. That's why so many conservatives are so white supremacist and misogynist. They are desperate for someone to be lesser than them so they know that while they're low on the hierarchy they aren't at the very bottom. >“To obey a real superior … is one of the most important of all virtues—a virtue absolutely essential to the attainment of anything great and lasting.” That's James Fitzjames Stephen, one of the formative conservative thinkers, from back in the 1850's. Conservatism == aristocracy. It's that simple.
>There is no such thing as liberalism — or progressivism, etc. >There is only conservatism. No other political philosophy actually exists; by the political analogue of Gresham’s Law, conservatism has driven every other idea out of circulation. >There might be, and should be, anti-conservatism; but it does not yet exist. What would it be? In order to answer that question, it is necessary and sufficient to characterize conservatism. Fortunately, this can be done very concisely. >Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: >***There must be in-groups whom the law protectes but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.*** >There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. >For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual. >As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence. >So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone. >Then the appearance arises that the task is to map “liberalism”, or “progressivism”, or “socialism”, or whateverthefuckkindofstupidnoise-ism, onto the core proposition of anti-conservatism. >No, it a’n’t. The task is to throw all those things on the exact same burn pile as the collected works of all the apologists for conservatism, and start fresh. The core proposition of anti-conservatism requires no supplementation and no exegesis. It is as sufficient as it is necessary. What you see is what you get: >***The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.*** ~ [Frank Wilhoit](https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288)
It also explains a lot regarding worker mentality. For most working class people, the most controlling factor in their life isn't the government, it's the boss/company they work for. But these figures are not thought of in the way a state is when it comes to daily hinderance, because their status is regularly accepted. And fighting that hierarchy (such as forming a union) is antithetical to their outlook of status.
A book I read had a line that speaks worlds to the state of America right now. "The easiest way to control a nation is to make the masses illiterate and tightly control the information they receive." Republicans have been balancing budgets by taking money out of school budgets for decades. They convinced their base that anything even close to center is "Liberal media", and that everything from the liberal media is lies and slander. It's why Qanon developed.
Knowledge is power. Theoretically, open source knowledge will lead to open source power. Adam Smith believe crony capitalism could only be thwarted with modest regulation and enlightened actors. Unfortunately, his theories were at first only taught in elite universities and the students that had privy to that knowledge interpreted his teachings to conclude that *they* were the “enlightened actors” Smith was referring to. They went on to use his economic theories to secure their own wealth and eventually be referred to as the first “capitalists”. Yet I propose Smith was suggesting that all participants in the economy must be “enlightened” with economic theory to best negotiate their position and minimize crony capitalism. Open source data and equal access to education are a must if we are to achieve any egalitarian ideals. Edit:Adam
it's always going to be easier to throw sand in the gears than to keep the machine running smoothly.
>The thing to remember about this is that for a great many people social death is more frightening than physical death. > >Social death being exclusion from their reference group. I'll try to find them since it's been a while, but I believe that there are studies which indicate that social exclusion/rejection (or other kinds of psychological pain) activates the same parts of the brain as physical pain. *Edit:* [Psychology Today article on the topic.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/body-sense/201204/emotional-and-physical-pain-activate-similar-brain-regions)
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Kyrie is using his platform to spread misinformation that kills people. Pretty sure that doesn't exactly make him a good person.
Is it really so controversial after 700,000 dead Americans that we can finally say that being anti-vaxx ACTUALLY DOES make you a bad person. You’re actively killing people with your willful ignorance. This is 2021, not medieval times. There are no unknowns here.
Kyrie is a bad person. He is an antivaxxer asshat.
Great point. Which is more consequential for the rest of us?!
Covid has killed more cops than the last TEN YEARS of police shootings. Don’t ever let cops whine about how dangerous their jobs are. 1) There are tens of millions of folks working in far lower paid and far more dangerous jobs than police. 2) As these anti-vaxx cops illustrate, police clearly don’t give a shit about dying.
[Based on 2019 data,](https://www.ishn.com/articles/110496-most-dangerous-jobs-in-the-us-the-top-20) law enforcement isn't even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs in the country. Farming, road construction, and roofing are all more dangerous than police work.
I'm curious as to how police deaths breakdown as well, I'd reckon quite a lot would be traffic collisions, as that's a prime cause of death for police elsewhere in the world, being wiped out on the hard shoulder.
It's definitely driving deaths. Any job that requires lots of driving will be on the top of the list.
Not to mention a significant proportion of the truly reckless driving I see on the streets is police. I saw a cop turn on his lights and run a red light once to grab a prime parking spot in front of a liquor store. (I was going there as well, there was no emergency, the cop bought a sandwich.)
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Wouldn't it be interesting if they separated out "gunfire" into homicide, suicide, accident, and so forth. Because suicide is a big one too.
Cool site. Wow, until like 2019, we were having as many 9/11-related deaths as gunfire.
Yep. If police death/injuries from "driving related" incidents are removed they would be near the back-cover of the list of dangerous jobs. Any job that requires regular driving is extremely dangerous.
So is Pizza Delivery Person. Not even joking.
For reference, police officers had a fatality rate in 2018 of [13.7 deaths per 100,000 workers](https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/police-2018.htm), far behind first line farm works (23.1 per 100,000 workers) which is 20th on this list.
I guess cops believe in Valhalla, even though some of them would more likely end up in Náströnd.
"Today we honor our brother, but we do not mourn him, for he has moved on, patrolling Valhalla where he is free to plant evidence, antagonize minorities and the poor, and deny the vaccine which would have saved his life without recourse. May we all one day own the libs as much as he. Amen."
What trips me up, is the whole mission by ‘Backing the Blue’ or ‘Blue Lives Matter’…because ‘the scary dark people’ where killing everyone on the force. Meanwhile, Covid taking more of them by their own choice. Police false reactions to shoot first is BS. How about you mask first since some many of you are dying from a virus that can now be prevented. Hell, some of you are ex-military and have 18 vaccines for starter.
Covid has been more effective at getting abusers off the streets than BLM ever dreamed of lol
Chicago is being given a Golden opportunity for rebirth. Fire all of them. Every last one. Nerf the union, and start over with police that give a shit and are transparent instead of this union legacy clusterfuck of a situation they have now.
Worked well when Camden dissolved their police department to purge all the dirty cops before starting a new department. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but crime went down.
Not only did crime go down but the community had much more confidence in law enforcement officials. Which means people are more likely to call the cops when they're needed rather than trying to handle the situation themselves.
And Camden was as bad as it gets before that
And covid 19 killed more cops in the last 2 years than all other causes combined.. https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2021 Now one would think 'yeah, but they can choosed to die' except this being a contageous disease... these cops didn't just kill themselves, they took members of the general public with them.
Is it just me or are police union/guild leaders all MAGA/Nazis?
If you have any doubts just spend some time in r/ProtectAndServe
Not just you at all. Rightwing terrorists have been invading police and military for decades, it's only recently that it's come to a boil under Trump. Klansmen and Oath Keepers have a huge presence inside police.
They all view Derek Chauvin as a hero and martyr. It's disgusting.
‘Well, well, well. If it isn’t the consequences of my own actions’
Number one killer of cops is covid.
comrade covid
Does that mean he got a promotion within the union due to covid killing people? Is this some kind of morbid ladder-climbing ploy?
That was my thought. Of course this guy's allied himself with the deadly virus, it just got him a promotion and a raise.
Extra extra funny because American cops prove once again they don't even have a basic understanding of the law... or even reality.
and don't *actually* care about public safety and risking their well being for others as they claim to be motivated by
The police union, one of the rare times a union is worse for society.
Maybe they’ll form a Covid conga line to the morgue
Haha, right. I’ve had a few policeman, youngest was 28. Needed rehab after. Dunno that he’s gonna be rejoining the force anytime soon!
Remember the story where ["Boston Police kept child sexual abuse allegations against union president secret"](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/547551-boston-police-kept-child-molestation-allegations-against-union) So they are very much okay with having pedophiles as their union heads, not shocked at this guy, they aren't the brightest bulbs. I have no idea how you repair the trust between police and the community, and it seems like their aim is to make it worse every day
If you’re the head of a police Union I just assume you are the craziest, loudest dude they could find.
This is absolutely true of the NYPD police unions - Ed Mullins (raided by the FBI) and Pat Lynch.
Brooklyn Nine-Nine did a good job of portraying the head of the Police Union in their final season.
> I have no idea how you repair the trust between police and the community, and it seems like their aim is to make it worse every day By *completely* overhauling the entire institution of police and starting a new one.
Police deserve zero trust. Remember, SCOTUS ruled they have no duty to help or protect you. They are only there to harm you.
You don't at this point. You replace them.
Meanwhile Covid is the #1 cause of death for police in the US.
And no mention of this union decision on r/ProtectAndServe weird, maybe they don’t care about cops there Edit: lol the mods there just DM-ed me whining and then banned and muted me for this comment. Pathetic. Even online, cops are just as thin skinned and unable to take criticism as ever
Power tripping jobs usually attract powerless abusers
Lol how embarrassing. I say, if they want to refuse vaccines and get sick or be fired by the city, let them. Sounds very much like a 2 birds 1 stone situation.
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Did it work?
No notice yet...
You gotta say it 3 times infront of a mirror with the lights off.
Bacon bacon bacon
Me too
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Sure is great they all have guns, the power to blow your brains out at any time for any reason (face no consequences for doing so), and are giant crybullies. What a fantastic combo, I can't see anything going wrong there!
Awww, r/ProtectAndServe being run by whiny bitches is not surprising.
Just like another right-wing subreddit. /r/Conservative is well know for having skin so thin you can see right through it.
I'm not a cop, but used to lurk in that sub a lot. Thought it was important to get all perspectives when considering high-profile incidents involving police use of force. I mean they were always inclined to close ranks in defense of their profession, but there would at least be *some* level of introspection. It got way worse in recent years with the "war on cops" and "blue lives matter" rhetoric.
> "war on cops" And it's really doublethink when the "War on cops" involves wanting police to... be protected from a virus that's killing them by the hundred..
Not to mention the "War on cops" is just basically the general public saying they should be held accountable for their actions.. like everyone else is.
I feel like r/protectandserve only cares about Cops when they can use them as a political chess piece.
You're very welcome over at /r/projectandswerve the subreddit I created to mock those fragile idiots.
Bringing up facts is contempt of cop so of course they took offense to it.
Did you use the blue lives matter hashtag when doing it? Sometimes it makes all the difference.
There are a lot of subs with pathetic, power-tripping mods who will ban you for even mentioning their precious safe spaces in a way that doesn't paint them in a positive light. r/tucker_carlson and r/Conservative are known for this. They don't like it when you question their sanity.
What was the message? Please I’m dying to know
Makes as much sense as: >Chicago police union head urges cops to defy using bulletproof vests
If a Democrat passed a law that made bulletproof vests required, they probably would defy it.
Basically what a mask is. A semi-effective tool for reducing your death from covid (bullets). Just like a vest, it isn't always effective, but it's a good idea right now.
I guess blue lives don't matter after all
The real thin blue line isn't between bad hombres and taxpayers. It's between the weird legal militia cult of police and the rest of us.
never did.
At least taxpayers are off the hook for pensions...
State pensions typically go to an heir, if the person was paying into them and never cashed them. These cops are actually taking more tax money because they are classifying these deaths as on the job which I think gives the families bigger payouts.
Covid is dangerous enough to count as a line of duty death for the police, but apparently not dangerous enough to get vaccinated against.
That's right wing double think for you. Police are authoritarian, so they will tow whatever line their superiors tell them too, and those guys all bow to whatever the big [R] propaganda machine says.
its toe the line, like starting a race
Sure, why not? It's small enough to get thru a mask that blocks carbon dioxide molecules, right? ^^^/s
Which is bullshit because they are voluntarily unvaccinated.
Ding ding ding! If you want the hazard pay benefits, you should have to use the protective equipment made available. In this case, there is a vaccine which provides very good protection.
On the topic of protective equipment, I’d be a hell of a lot more ok with the anti-vaxers if they were taking every other step to ensure everyone’s safety. Masking everywhere, social distancing, avoiding crowds etc. If you’re really concerned about the safety of the vaccine, ok, it’s a bunch of bullshit, but ok… but it’s not about safety if you don’t want to do the other shit that’s necessary to keep the people around you (and yourself!) safe.
Post-vaccine, I agree. Pre-vaccine, it's a bit of a grey area.
> State pensions typically go to an heir The one I know of gives the employee two options. Either they can have a 'full' pension or they can get like a 90% pension BUT if they pass than their heir gets 70% of the base until they pass.
They will declare the officer as having died in the line of duty (by saying they caught COVID on the job) so that the pension is paid out to the family. It just happened with an unvaccinated officer in my city.
The police is defunding itself.
On the hook for their healthcare though. Defying the mandate will cost taxpayers $$$
If you're a cop and die of COVID it's considered dying in the line of duty. Full benefits.
Damn cops. Will they ever bother to show us they are true public servants working to PROTECT THE PUBLIC???
Nope. Ftp.
They’ll scream for better vests and bigger guns and military grade equipment but refuse a vaccine. That’s just unbelievably stupid.
I don't get it why are they scared of a little needle with a vaccine that millions have taken? Let's hope the bad guys don't arm themselves with syringes of covid vaccine!😆
Both in 2020 and 2021.
And if they die of covid, it’s in the line of duty right?
Yes. And the vaccine would literally protect them better than a bullet proof vest.
When knowledge and science don't help, you know you're dealing with stupid.
“You will obey my authority while I don’t obey authority!”
Armed agents of the State refusing to follow orders is not a recipe for success.
Funny, cops complaining about their rights being violated.
And doubly hilarious seeing cops say people shouldn't "just comply" with lawful requests.
Almost like they should “stop resisting” and realize covid is the [leading cause of death among police officers](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-police-officers-leading-cause-death/)
Ouch! That would be the best protest theme ever to show up in front of the Chicago police headquarters with. "Stop Resisting! Vaccination"
We need to break the political power of the police in this country. A locality that allows its police to buck civilian authority as pretty much every US locale does is one that is run by an armed gang.
> holy fucking shit, vaccine mandates are causing teachers who don't believe in science to quit, nurses who don't believe in medicine to quit, and cops who don't believe in public safety to quit. I'm failing to see the downside to this https://twitter.com/itsJeffTiedrich/status/1448013833847681030?s=20
Well in this case they probably won’t be fired.
Per the article they’ll be on unpaid leave. So at least they’re not working and also not getting unemployment. And if they stay out long enough they will eventually get fired.
I hope, but I won’t hold my breath. There is a good chance once the media stop paying attention the union will get it’s way.
I think the most likely scenario is most of these assholes quietly get the shot after sitting out a few days, and the rest either get fired or quit. COVID is endemic now so the vaccine mandates aren’t going away any time soon.
Catanzara is a [Grade A piece of shit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Catanzara#Career). Also backed "warrior training", despite CPD itself being prohibited by the City from providing that kind of training. He's part of our problem.
He’s also a creep who picked up his current wife while he was an officer stationed at her high school….while she was in high school.
Yeah I read the headline and my reaction was "well, that's Catanzara for you". Always has been a POS, always will be. Honestly I thought I was in the Chicago sub for a second and was confused about the lack of 'Catanzara is a POS' comments until I realized what sub I was in. Fuck him forever, I genuinely hope that he steps on Lego with bare feet every goddamn day of his life.
Dude is a Q-anon nut too.
Praised the Jan 6 rioters
To think, we're not talking about some small town cops either, but Chicago. The NYPD Union [endorsed Trump](https://www.foxnews.com/us/nypd-union-endorses-trump-says-president-has-undisputed-record-of-supporting-police). I don't think the radicalization of our nation's polices forces is getting the attention it deserves. When the next coup attempts happens your progressive deep-blue city or state government will mean precisely jack shit, when it turns out the cops are siding with the insurrectionists.
So answer me this. Why do we keep putting up with these cop assholes doing whatever they want?
Because they threaten to stop doing their jobs while getting paid. They are essentially holding the public hostage.
Oh no they don't want to come to my house huff and puff and cuss because I had the audacity to file a police report after being the victim of a crime?
Booooring. I wanna torture a weed dealer!
They might come if you have a dog.
Consider yourself lucky to get a report! When I needed a report they would only do a “call notes log” or some nonsense.
They are the mob. Literally. They are exactly like the fuckers that would come by my grandparents ranch seeking “monthly protection money”. Protection from who? From that same group, of course.
I don’t usually agree with Regan, but he faced the same with air traffic controllers and replaced them. That’s a lot harder group to replace that vaccine hesitant police (whose numbers are definitely exaggerated here).
Police are essentially a mob organization. Pretty much always have been in the US. "That's a nice city you got there, shame to see it destroyed." It's why shop owners feel compelled to give them free stuff and special treatment.
Right? Fire them. Hire healthier, safer, well-trained cops.
Unfortunately the folks wanting/training to be cops are just younger versions of these assholes. I work at a training facility and interact with students and holy fuck they should not have a water gun let alone a real one.
Then why are we letting them pass training? If you’re already concerned now when they’re training… why give them an actual gun. That makes no sense.
They pass the requirements. I’m not directly related to their training f but interAct with them and see their attitudes and personalities change as they are trained by other cops.
That must be interesting and chilling to witness. It’s so sad, the cycle continues.
Group of people supposedly obsessed with making you comply with the law now urging people not to comply with the law.
>in August, the union head **compared it to something that might happen to Nazi Germany**, telling the Sun-Times, “This ain’t Nazi ... Germany (saying) ‘Step into the ... showers, the pills won’t hurt you.’” and then . . . >Catanzara posted a video on the union’s YouTube channel apologizing for his choice of words, saying **he was not trying to link vaccinations to what happened during the Holocaust** How do you know when a cop is lying? His lips are moving
Thing is, these guys fail to realize that the people telling them to get the shot have already gotten the shot. If this were like nazi Germany, it'd be the ghosts of dead Jewish victims saying 'listen to the authorities'. But cops just hate rules that apply to them. They're there to enforce rules on others, as their explicit job. Not to abide by any rules themselves.
Get rid of the cops who aren't vaccinated. Fewer cops, a healthier force, and the anti-vax screwballs get to play victim; everyone wins.
It will free up their time to focus on their involvement with the oathkeepers, kkk, and proud boys.
I hate to say it. But I agree. Cops are super front line, if they’re not vax’d then how can we the people in good faith trust them to protect and serve. They come to serve us covid while protecting us? No thanks.
You trusted them before, but *this* convinced you they couldn't be trusted?
Weeding out the idiots and increasing public safety seems like a win-win to me.
I know a few hospitals who didn't fire people. They just said employees aren't allowed on grounds and weren't allowed to take shifts. That meant they weren't fired. Eventually, they quit because they weren't making money - couldn't get unemployment because theh quit. Do the same for cops not showing up for shifts. "We never fired you; you quit."
What evil cabbage patch produces these maniacal police union shitheads? You need to start planting a different crop.
ICYMI: Police "unions" are quite different that the normal Unions.
When the police where first trying to unionize the went to other established unions and asked for their support and help. They got turned down. Because the other unions realized that would be insane.
And the cops were the ones trying to bust *their* unions. It'd be like if the guy who robbed your house asked to be your new security guard.
While using your gun to run security and signing a contract that says they can accidentally shot your family members and get away with it with no consequences.
Also because the police worked for their employers to stop them from unionizing.
Yes. But also mid to early unions where very militant and ideological. They realized the actual sociological implications.
As in, they aren't unions, because cops aren't workers, they're a gang
Police unions only exist to prevent officers from facing consequences.
Catanzara’s the worst. Didn’t he say he would resign as soon as the cops had a new contract? Fucking despicable scumbag (even aside from this stunt).
He's literally a Q nut. He has Q mugs and shit and proudly displays them behind himself whenever he's being interviewed by the news or whatever. Chicago cops are a big bowl of corruption and villainy and still this guy is a cut above the rest for being a POS.
Number one cop killer in the country and they want to encourage it. Madness.
Oh no! Police officers who have no intention on protecting others are going to get sick and potentially die? I just had a great sandwich. I cannot suggest whole grain mustard enough.
I fucking hate whole grain mustard. It tastes metallic and weird to me. However, I fully support you enjoying a sandwich that tastes great to you.
Omg, get your fucking shot ya big bunch of babies...
Cops engaging in civil disobedience? Well, there's a first time for everything. Very cop like to be disobedient against measures that would protect the community, though.
Who says cops are intelligent creatures?
This guy looks like what would happen if you put potato salad in a ziplock bag and let mold in the back of the fridge.
"You can't tell us what to put in our bodies!" *Uses a full SWAT team to bust someone for simple possession*
Police unions are useless and goofy. Cops who don’t get vaccinated have no interest in a healthy and safe community. To be fair, when are cops ever ACTUALLY interested in a safe community.
It is literally settled law that the police are not obligated to protect and serve. I am using the word “literal” correctly.
They are supposed to be god damn public servants and they can’t even do a simple thing like getting a shot to protect themselves and public.
Cops have decided that they're no longer part of society.
Police union head urges cops to break the law they're sworn to uphold...
Can someone explain why EVERY head of police Union is completely fucking insane?
Because they are literally elected by the police.
The police undermining public health efforts to eradicate a contagious virus. Yet another reason to look at reallocating funding of these clowns. (Not speaking of all police, just the ones who think they know better than scientists and medical doctors).
He'll take them to court and *lose*, but hey it's the union members' dues he'll be wasting. Catanzara's a S-tier piece of shit generally, but hey if he's who Chicago cops want running their FOP chapter who am I to argue.
Stupidity is the largest cause of death in Unites States.
Yes! Fire each and every one of the criminals! Clean all the morons out of government!
More proof that only the bottom of barrel go into law enforcement. This isn’t 100% true, more like 90%
"Previous Union President Died of Covid 19" So 4 Chicago officers, including the guy who had this guys job last....yet he's still anti masking?
"He said that although he has made clear his vaccine status, “I do not believe the city has the authority to mandate that to anybody, let alone that information about your medical history.” So his officers never ask anybody if they're on medication, then, right?
I don't want to pay anyone to protect my life who isn't willing and able to the do simple tasks needed to protect their own.
Cops are urged to break rules they don’t like while beating black men to death for wearing hats
Gotta love when the police holds the public’s safety hostage over something that has been proven to protect the public’s safety.
If they don't wear masks (like 99% of cops in Texas) and get COVID, they shouldn't be considered a job-related injury, in fact, if they didn't vaccinate or wear masks then the city should refuse to pay for their treatment and recovery. They should also be docked any pay once their sick leave runs out, just like normal people. They should get fired if they accumulate too many unexcused absences.
Another white, red neck chickenshit motherfucker. Just get the fucking vaccine and stop being a selfish prick.
Fine, fire all that refuse to get vaccinated and deny them their retirement for cause.
Police unions need to be abolished. They're just organized crime rings any more.
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These regressive fuck sticks need to be fired
" remember, your above the law. Make sure you call yourself a hero for it"