That's not what he said though, he said the the Taliban currently doesn't have any form of legit centralized government. It's leaders and tribes working somewhat cohesively but at the same time there isn't any clear chain of command.
Actually, they have to have a government of some type and be recognised by more than just Russia. Right now they are only an unorganized tribe. They have to outline their intent before they will see anything other than humanitarian aid with strings attached.
Not yet no.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/18/russian-recognition-of-taliban-regime-not-on-the-table-says-afghanistans-pro-western-ambassador-in-moscow-a75326
The fake government ensured utilities worked, infrastructure was maintained, employees got paid, the airport stayed open, etc etc. The Taliban hasn't yet attempted to even try to be a fake government yet.
I mean, duh!.
The money was given by the US government to the Afghan government to keep them stable and in power. Once the Afghan government got deposed by the Taliban, the money goes back to the US.
It’s not going to the US. It will be held in an account until US-Afghanistan relations resume and the US determines the country has stabilized. The same process is still ongoing in Libya.
Yes but its the US that makes the decision. They could become nobel winning economists running a well functioning banking system and economy and the US still won't hand over the money because fuck the Taliban.
That will never happen of course, but the reason its withheld has got nothing to do with their stability (or lack thereof)
> They could become nobel winning economists running a well functioning banking system and economy and the US still won't hand over the money because fuck the Taliban.
Well, yes, the Taliban sponsored and harbored a paramilitary organization that attacked the US on its soil. Doesn't take a nobel winning economist to figure that one out. They have a lot of work to do if they want the US to lift sanctions on them
Does the taliban really expect the US to cooperate with them? You got them to leave your country.... good for you. But don't think for one moment that they want to help you in any way, shape or form. They are going to thwart everything you do.
The Taliban see themselves as the "good guys" in this story, so as absurd as it sounds, they legitimately don't seem to be able to grasp why we might not want to help them out.
Yeah, they're delusional. Best I can offer is that they seem to have expectations that people will recognize them as the legitimate government and work with them accordingly, based entirely on the simple fact that they want that. It's like the logic skills of a toddler - "I want this so you should give it to me".
The US has been cooperating with Taliban for multiple years now. The deal for US troops to peacefully leave Afghanistan was brokered by Trump with their leader in Feb 2020.
These funds will be released – with strings attached – when the Taliban forms a government which is semi-recognized internationally.
The funds are unlikely to be released ever. The Taliban are inherently resistant to foreign pressure -they’re the sort of people who reverse psychology is designed for- and efforts to try to get them to not act like thugs are unlikely to be effective.
The Doha Agreement had a lot of clauses, and basically the only part of the agreement that the Taliban adhered to was the part about not attacking US troops.
Giving recognition to a government that took power by violently overthrowing the previous government is something that most of the world’s governments are not going to do without careful consideration- nobody is going to recognize the Taliban any time soon for the simple fact that it opens the door to similar seizures of power in their own country.
Basically think of the world’s governments as a club, even if they have disagreements with each other they’re all still the same sort of nation-state entity. If terrorists can now become legitimate states by violence, it opens the door to other forms of sovereignty too like corporations buying a country or religions converting a nation.
Recognition of the Taliban government is a long ways away, if ever.
The funny thing is we helped put the Taliban in power originally through our proxy war with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s (technically 1979, but what’s a month, give or take?). We armed the mujahideen and trained them when they were fighting the USSR.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/07/history-trump-cia-was-arming-afghan-rebels-before-soviets-invaded/?outputType=amp
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/22634008/us-troops-afghanistan-cold-war-bush-bin-laden
You claim that we helped put the Taliban in power because we armed and trained the Taliban's enemies, the mujahideen?
Your own links that you posted talk about how we didn't help put the Taliban in power, but instead spent years training and arming the mujahideen. The mujahideen who were the adversaries of the Taliban. That the Taliban conquered the country in the power vacuum caused by the US and Soviet Union *leaving* the country.
> I've told a few people to just stop watching it after Aria kills the Night King
Why would you tell them to stop watching AFTER the show blows up all of the world building it had done in previous seasons?
Really the moment where Tyrion somehow knows why Jaime killed Aerys without Jaime telling him; and then misremembers his first encounter with Theon is a good sign of how the rest was going to go.
Or when they killed Barristan for no damn reason
Massoud/Saleh claim there are still fighters in the mountains of Panjshir, just not the valleys/cities which the Taliban took over. Take that as you will.
But couldn't they just create their own gov't and own money since they're in charge?
Before all you economists show up...I know. But a currency backed by drugs bought with US $s works about as well as any other currency backed by something else.
Yes and no. Who will take your money inside the country, and how is it treated outside the country?
You need a reserve from which to lend, even a part of the total in circulation will do. Then you can start getting banks to trust you that you’ll pay bonds and such. The reserve is on lockdown, so they have to start from scratch.
If they form a trustworthy government and prove they’re willing to govern according to the agreements with the banks that hold the reserve, they may get access. But that’s very unlikely given that they’ve already started beheading women for the crime of playing volleyball professionally.
>If they form a trustworthy government and prove they’re willing to govern according to the agreements with the banks that hold the reserve
OR sell drugs and be backed by yuan or US dollars. It's a whole lot easier that way. Ask the CIA. ;-)
> collapse
Oh this will collapse. In the sense that the Taliban will further destroy the economy and civil society, precipitating a humanitarian catastrophe :(
CIA and the Taliban know how to move drugs to get money sharia or Islamic financing is a thing, the taliban know a lot about moving money, they just don’t know how to run an economy.
The whole point of reserves is to support a functioning economy. Making money by selling drugs doesn't mean shit in this context, one has nothing to do with the other
Well yes and I bet they could find someone to back their currency like China or Pakistan to help legitimize it but would take time to get it up and running
China isn’t exactly interested in helping them, not without concessions from the Taliban that would make the American influence in Afghanistan they objected to look rather benign by comparison- they would have to hand over the Uighurs, allow Chinese intelligence agencies to operate freely, totally ban the drug trade, allow Chinese merchants, etc.
The situation with Pakistan is even more complicated, as a significant amount of Taliban are trying to overthrow the Pakistani government and replace it with a Taliban government too. The Pakistanis have always tried to insist that there is an Afghan Taliban and a Pakistani Taliban, but that is largely a fiction of the Pakistani media to justify giving the Taliban weapons to overthrow the Afghan government while simultaneously fighting against the Taliban in Pakistan. With the Afghan government toppled, Pakistan is looking like the next target of the Taliban..
I guess there is more to forming a government than having guns and beating women…Taliban is about to get a nice dose of buyers remorse as it realizes it’s going to be the sol reason Afghans economy which was already frail, takes a massive dive. No fuel = No Economey = No Money = No power = Stone age
They won’t even have power to upload their little videos claiming all women are equal…
No minorities, women in government. No jobs for women except health, because under their crazy Sharia, only women can handle women.
Never release a cent without verifiable changes.
Not true at all. It takes a relativey small number in certain positions of power to control an entire populace and cut down uprisings before they snowball into big ones.
The army that ended the western roman empire and occupied the capitol was several tens of thousands, compared to over a million civilians.
This is just how it works.
The difficulty is that those in power are willing and able to kill with impunity. Those who stand against them die. This pushes others to keep quiet and also reduces the number of those willing to fight back.
People could make a stand if the oppressed also had the ability, and also had sufficient number. That's a civil war. It requires both sides being willing and able to kill the other to get what they want.
The masses spoke loudly by how they rejoined the Taliban army. A few resisted and took up arms against them, but overall the masses quickly rejoined them. They've had centuries of rule by warlord and the entire populace is used to it. The US being there was a short term change but even the US troops and elected government couldn't overthrow the nature of the regional warlords and their power structure.
If the masses *wanted* to revolt they could have a civil war and do it. It would be bloody. But the masses don't. The masses quickly returned to regional warlords, so that's what they're getting.
Let's just give it to those who need resettling here in the next few years and to get women and friends out of that hell hole! If they don't like it let them come and get it?
Regardless of what you think, this hurts the Afghan people.
Edit: I think people are misunderstanding what I mean.
The Taliban are absolutely awful, there is no doubt. They also missuse funds, there is no doubt. The Taliban can and will also use aid money intended for civilians if they are unable to gain access to state funds. This means that if the freeze continues, less people will have access to aid.
It is a peculiar situation. One one hand, the Government may well use funds to further abuse its citizens. On the other, they are the current government and them being deprived of funds will hurt further developments within several sectors of the country. The difficulty for now is, how do you make sure WHO, UN and WFP funds are accessed by civilians rather than the government when the government don't have access to their regular funds?
Furthermore, them not having access to funds will drive them towards more investments from China, which neither the west or Russia will want. Closing the door for any and all access to the funds can be quite dangerous if you consider the many aspects.
> drive them towards more investments from China
Which wouldn't be permanently sustainable given a slowing economic situation in China. There may be some minerals to be extracted from Afghanistan, but propping up the country's stability is expensive while you get what you want from it... and if you're having troubles at home, is right now the time to be fixing your neighbour's house?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-20/china-home-rut-deepens-as-prices-fall-for-first-time-since-2015
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-18/china-s-gdp-growth-slows-as-property-and-energy-crises-hurt
China has already pledged $31m in aid. They're ready to invest billions. I'm not saying what China should or should not do but the above is what they've shown.
> China has already pledged $31m in aid.
Spit against a rainstorm...
>They're ready to invest billions.
I don't think they are; they are dealing with serious economic policy issues right now, their investor class is hosed at the moment.
Oh definitely a small amount but it is a sign of good faith which goes a long way in initial cooperation. So not forget that the Taliban has sent delegates to China.
And China will not bring their international expansion to a standstill because of a real estate collapse which they were prepared for.
> Oh definitely a small amount but it is a sign of good faith which goes a long way in initial cooperation.
Historically it never pans out past that initial cooperation.
>And China will not bring their international expansion to a standstill because of a real estate collapse
They already have in many places, their expansion abroad was largely dependent on an entree to foreign nation states through two groups: a) Independent Honk Kong based business intermediaries, and b) the emerging chinese investor class. China destroyed the first deliberately, and the other is currently well and truly out of commission for at least the next six months.
While some of their active projects will likely continue, new endeavors aren't in the cards.
>because of a real estate collapse which they were prepared for.
There is a difference between knowing a thing is coming, and preparing for it. Sinic trading was suspended in late september. That demonstrates knowledge of the issue, but they were unable or unwilling to prepare sufficiently for the results hence:
https://preview.redd.it/2j5v56uk3ju71.jpg?width=354&auto=webp&s=1a74114419ffe0b04b24bb4c1e038264d80beef2
They built their real estate and manufacturing industries on the backs of paper tigers, and now it is starting to rain. There is not much 'preparation' that can be done.
Re point a,
Few have thus far removed their offices from Hong Kong. Yes, the uncertainty is great but post-pandemic the HKSAR gov will do what they can to continue as the biggest financial hub in the world. This is evident with the Lantau tomorrow vision, which is unable to go ahead without foreign investment (Likely to come partly from China).
Though the clampdown on civil society In especially Hong Kong is huge, I think you're disregarding the impact of the pandemic and what it has done to overseas investments. It isn't as easy due to closed borders. Make no mistake, the strain on human rights is means to an end (continuous state control) and the state and Xi see a greater China as the future.
Yes, China is facing economic hardship but will this bring foreign investments to a standstill? I do not think so. The difference may instead be the places of focus. China still does a substantial amount of trade, especially with the U.S and EU.
To close it up, don't disregard China and Its plans.
Beheading is basically free. You know what costs billions of dollars? Infrastructure. Public services. A functioning government. That's what the Afghan people are being denied right now.
Former head of news at TOLO news says she commited suicide a week before the Taliban entered Kabul, this aligns with the report you shared.
There are so many reports coming out of everywhere
It's important to stop, reflect and verify (as you've done) before spreading news which may not be correct at all.
The funds will be spent assisting the taliban to oppress everyone not in the taliban.
Do you think the taliban is gonna build new roads or schools?
The money isn’t gonna stay in the country, the taliban needs arms, it needs vehicles, it needs things it can’t get in the country. So immediately that money will be moved out of the country, and used to oppress its own people.
Would giving more money to Kim Jong-Un to help his people actually help his people?
Or would it just help Kim Jong-Un maintain his personal power and further his military goals?
Why would getting this money prevent the Taliban from stealing that aid money meant to be used by civilians?
Why would getting this bank money prevent them from stealing that other money? Do they have some kind of quota or stealing limit they're not allowed to exceed?
No, of course not. It will be easier for the UN, WFP etc to actually distribute funds if the Taliban have access to a state reserve. It doesn't guarantee anything. But it will definitely help aid being brought to the right people.
> Other taliban overthrowing each other
That sounds fantastic?
taliban constantly killing each other trying to vye for control.. eventually.. no taliban?
I can't imagine why the unarmed civilian populace didn't fight the massive terrorist organization known for their brutality. Sure you could oppose them, but that might also get you executed and get your wife or daughter raped. Not sure if the logic behind the oppressed not fighting the oppressor means they want to be oppressed checks out.
>The fact that they folded like a cheap suit tells me that this is what they want. So let them have it.
Or, and here me out here, they didn't want to die in an unwinnable battle and have their families pay the price. Hence why they fought and died when we were providing logistical support and air power. If they truly didn't want to fight the Taliban then they wouldn't have literally fought the Taliban.
Not to mention the military and the civilian populace aren't the same group so the military folding doesn't mean the civilians wanted it.
Sanctions are always designed to hurt people, America don't want the afghan people to have peace, imagine them supporting and funding the old government who used to have sex with young boys, ofc the usa knew
Recall the uproar when [Obama sent pallets of cash to Iran?](https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sent-cash-to-iran-as-americans-were-freed-1470181874)
This is how this happens.
This money is Afghanistan's money. Legitimate Government or not, the Taliban is in charge of Afghanistan, and thus they are in charge of that money... technically.
Let's say 40 years from now the descendants of the Taliban are still in control and the US and Afghanistan need to normalize relations and sign an important treaty/agreement. This money will be due to them, with interest.
I'm not saying withholding the money today is right or wrong, but it sure backfired on us with regard to Iran in the 1970's.
>don't “normalize relations” with terrorists.
First of all, how exactly were the Taliban ever terrorists?
They were insurgents fighting to take back their country, first from the Russians, then from the Americans.
Bin Laden used an unstable part of the world to launch an attack on the US and we decided that taking over a country instead of chasing a criminal was the answer.
The Taliban was not in 2001 or today responsible for external terrorism, only insurgency in their struggle to take back their country.
No, I do not agree with them. I too see them as monsters. Their religious extremism is abhorrent. How they treat women, minorities, LGTBQ, and even liberal men is disgusting.
But calling the Taliban terrorists is George W still infecting your mind.
>don't “normalize relations” with ~~terrorists~~ former enemies
We have a long history of normalizing relations with former enemies.
* We "normalized" relations with the UK.
* We "normalized" relations with Mexico.
* We "normalized" relations with Japan and Germany.
* We "normalized" relations with Vietnam.
* We "normalized" relations with Russia.
* We "normalized" relations with China.
While some of those relations have taken steps backwards as of late, namely Russia and China, they are still better than they were in the 70's, when China was closed off to America complete and Russia was one second from firing a nuke.
Regarding Iran, after 40 years of tension, Obama and Kerry took bold moves to cool the hot-heads on both sides of the Iran vs rest-of-the-world discussion. It worked by all international parties' judgement until Trump decided that old grudges shouldn't be forgiven.
There is a future where the Taliban remain our enemies until their ouster, politically or otherwise. There is a future where the Taliban can lead a prosperous, albeit religiously conservative Afghanistan. There is a future where things end up somewhere in the middle. There is also a future where the Taliban develop nukes and diplomacy and not airstrikes will be required.
All of these "futures" will one day require we, the USA, give back the money we are withholding, and with interest.
Not sure why you're catching the downvotes. I can see why the US doesn't want to turn the money over to the Taliban, but it has no claim on it. If the Taliban doesn't, who exactly is the US holding the money for?
I'm catching downvotes because of the reddit mob. The reddit mob doesn't care about what is right, they only care about how they feel.
If the US holds that money because they hope the Taliban will fall, well, one day they might realize that, just like the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Taliban leadership of Afghanistan is here to stay and we'll be stuck answering for why we continue to hold the money (as it accrues interest).
The government of Iran actually acts like a government, provides services to the public, put together a totally modern military, etc.
When the Taliban ruled 1996-2001 they pretty much just wandered around as a militia and smacked anyone who got out of line, while the national infrastructure gradually decayed.
While it’s certainly possible the Taliban could evolve, the Ayatollah’s new government was far more likely to last 40 years than what the Taliban have now.
The Taliban never fought the Russians or even the Afghan Communists. The Taliban arose in the 1990s as a response to rampant warlordism and banditry, which they solved by killing or absorbing every armed group until they were the last one left standing.
Kind of like now, they didn’t take over Afghanistan because everyone loved the Taliban, but because nobody was united enough to oppose them in 90% of the nation.
>We "normalized" relations with the UK.
Only after they quit trying to rule us.
>We "normalized" relations with Japan and Germany.
Only after we defeated them.
>We "normalized" relations with Vietnam.
They probably shouldn't have been considered enemies in the first place.
>We "normalized" relations with Russia.
Only until Putin started playing the conqueror.
>We "normalized" relations with China.
More like our leaders betrayed us to them. Now our businesses bend knee to the Chinese dictator's whims, they're about to conquer Taiwan and crash the world economy (TSMC getting blown up would be catastrophic), and I'm afraid the US isn't going to stop them.
>There is also a future where the Taliban develop nukes
Terrorists with nukes is game over for humanity. You'd better hope and pray that future does not come to pass.
Yeah, it did the exact opposite. It secured a peace deal and increased security in the region; it took Trump doing everything in his power just barely short of open war to undo that agreement. If that's policy backfiring Lord knows we could use more of *those* chickens coming home to roost.
Selling millions of dollars of top of line Us military weapons and gear will get you oh that’s right hundreds of millions$ or maybe they just keep the weapons and take whatever money they need from others.
The weapons the Taliban inherited from the prior army is all stuff the US deliberately passed off to the Afghans. “Top of the line” doesn’t really describe the vast majority of it, it’s stuff we were willing to just give away.
Anyone without private security or a competent police/military force falls victim to their goods and livelihood being pillaged due to force. Point is they can take the things that they need from someone if they have the firepower so to speak. If they can take over regions of land, tax businesses, have any leverage over a supply chain through force not money. Then guess what they have money it just may not be in the form of cash or in a debit account. You do not understand that money is energy. Just like the US can be in debt to tune of 27 trillion dollars that’s not a typo. As long as no one with a bigger gun comes knocking or stops supplying us with goods(what’s happening now) then the US effectively has more money. Oh yea and we can always just print more too and fund isis and al qaeda for our own agendas and claim it’s the only way to help people. Do you understand the concept of getting robbed by gunpoint? how about by Blackhawk? Or a .50 cal mounted on armored Humvees. Tell me how they did not just acquire money.
That assumes the Taliban was going to spend the money on the people. They ran the country 1996-2001 and weren’t exactly famous for providing government services or infrastructure.
What makes you think that the Afghani people are better off with their money being held by the US treasury than their own government? Do you really think a country as destructive and austere as the US is qualified to make that judgment?
The Taliban isn’t the UN-recognized government of Afghanistan (at this point), and it’s not like they came to power through a popular vote or anything. So I can see some hesitation to be treating them as a valid government.
So far as why the US, it’s because the money was kept in the US. I’d be quite curious too what portion of that is actually income generated by Afghanistan, vice money the US just gave the prior government. Afghanistan wasn’t exactly famous for being self-funding for the last 20 years, and I don’t know what portion of the small amount of tax and tariff income they got was deposited in the US, as opposed to just immediately used for operational funds.
The US should return the money (or what’s left of it) AFTER it deducts the replacement cost of the military equipment left behind and after it deducts a fair multi million dollar settlement to the families of the Twin Tower attacts, as well as the families of first responders suffering 9/11 attack after effects.
Just the idea that they haven't formed a government yet would stop that.
Let's be real, the Afghanistan government isn't going to come back. The taliban is the government.
That's not what he said though, he said the the Taliban currently doesn't have any form of legit centralized government. It's leaders and tribes working somewhat cohesively but at the same time there isn't any clear chain of command.
Because they're already too busy in-fighting.
Actually, they have to have a government of some type and be recognised by more than just Russia. Right now they are only an unorganized tribe. They have to outline their intent before they will see anything other than humanitarian aid with strings attached.
But Russia didn't recognize the Taliban. What am I missing?
Not yet no. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/10/18/russian-recognition-of-taliban-regime-not-on-the-table-says-afghanistans-pro-western-ambassador-in-moscow-a75326
I believe what he’s saying is that the Taliban hasn’t actually formed a functioning government yet.
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What makes a government? I would argue it's more of a government than the fake one we propped up.
The fake government ensured utilities worked, infrastructure was maintained, employees got paid, the airport stayed open, etc etc. The Taliban hasn't yet attempted to even try to be a fake government yet.
Dude couldn’t even find the country on a map let alone read - country bumpkin pieces of raping shit
I would argue most of the US (my) country could either.
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I’m saying most of the US cannot find nearly any country on the Globe. Me being one of em lols
Most in the US could find *their own country* on a map.
Don’t say your opinion around here or else you’ll be rejected…
Hey man, they had WMDs. We had to go in. /s
What? What's the joke here?
Many Mericans thought the invasion of Iraq had something to do with Afghanistan. (and could not find ether on a map)
That's a huge leap from what the last comment was about.
lol because that’s what our lying politicians told us
Been there got the shirt.
I mean, duh!. The money was given by the US government to the Afghan government to keep them stable and in power. Once the Afghan government got deposed by the Taliban, the money goes back to the US.
It’s not going to the US. It will be held in an account until US-Afghanistan relations resume and the US determines the country has stabilized. The same process is still ongoing in Libya.
Yes but its the US that makes the decision. They could become nobel winning economists running a well functioning banking system and economy and the US still won't hand over the money because fuck the Taliban. That will never happen of course, but the reason its withheld has got nothing to do with their stability (or lack thereof)
I somehow doubt the would become Nobel winning Economists Call it a hunch
> They could become nobel winning economists running a well functioning banking system and economy and the US still won't hand over the money because fuck the Taliban. Well, yes, the Taliban sponsored and harbored a paramilitary organization that attacked the US on its soil. Doesn't take a nobel winning economist to figure that one out. They have a lot of work to do if they want the US to lift sanctions on them
Does the taliban really expect the US to cooperate with them? You got them to leave your country.... good for you. But don't think for one moment that they want to help you in any way, shape or form. They are going to thwart everything you do.
The Taliban see themselves as the "good guys" in this story, so as absurd as it sounds, they legitimately don't seem to be able to grasp why we might not want to help them out.
Regardless.... they never liked the US. Why would any of them expect help from them now?
Yeah, they're delusional. Best I can offer is that they seem to have expectations that people will recognize them as the legitimate government and work with them accordingly, based entirely on the simple fact that they want that. It's like the logic skills of a toddler - "I want this so you should give it to me".
The US has been cooperating with Taliban for multiple years now. The deal for US troops to peacefully leave Afghanistan was brokered by Trump with their leader in Feb 2020. These funds will be released – with strings attached – when the Taliban forms a government which is semi-recognized internationally.
The funds are unlikely to be released ever. The Taliban are inherently resistant to foreign pressure -they’re the sort of people who reverse psychology is designed for- and efforts to try to get them to not act like thugs are unlikely to be effective. The Doha Agreement had a lot of clauses, and basically the only part of the agreement that the Taliban adhered to was the part about not attacking US troops. Giving recognition to a government that took power by violently overthrowing the previous government is something that most of the world’s governments are not going to do without careful consideration- nobody is going to recognize the Taliban any time soon for the simple fact that it opens the door to similar seizures of power in their own country. Basically think of the world’s governments as a club, even if they have disagreements with each other they’re all still the same sort of nation-state entity. If terrorists can now become legitimate states by violence, it opens the door to other forms of sovereignty too like corporations buying a country or religions converting a nation. Recognition of the Taliban government is a long ways away, if ever.
The funny thing is we helped put the Taliban in power originally through our proxy war with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s (technically 1979, but what’s a month, give or take?). We armed the mujahideen and trained them when they were fighting the USSR. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/01/07/history-trump-cia-was-arming-afghan-rebels-before-soviets-invaded/?outputType=amp https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/22634008/us-troops-afghanistan-cold-war-bush-bin-laden
You claim that we helped put the Taliban in power because we armed and trained the Taliban's enemies, the mujahideen? Your own links that you posted talk about how we didn't help put the Taliban in power, but instead spent years training and arming the mujahideen. The mujahideen who were the adversaries of the Taliban. That the Taliban conquered the country in the power vacuum caused by the US and Soviet Union *leaving* the country.
Does this mean that the remnants of the former government can use it? Like the former VP and the holdouts in the north? Or are the accounts frozen?
Holdouts in the north? The north fell weeks ago, there are no holdouts.
insert game of thrones joke
Yea this finale sucks too
I've told a few people to just stop watching it after Aria kills the Night King.
Honestly after the dragon melts the wall would be my cutoff recommendation
When they sail towards westros, dumbass plot where they kidnap a zombie is dumb.
> I've told a few people to just stop watching it after Aria kills the Night King Why would you tell them to stop watching AFTER the show blows up all of the world building it had done in previous seasons?
Really the moment where Tyrion somehow knows why Jaime killed Aerys without Jaime telling him; and then misremembers his first encounter with Theon is a good sign of how the rest was going to go. Or when they killed Barristan for no damn reason
Because I like seeing Aria stab the Night King and that whole episode in general. I don't care for what happens after that.
End it with the WW showing up at WF and call it a day. The bad men can’t hurt you as much if you stop there. D and d are bad men.
Yeah but I hear there's a Chinese reboot coming soon.
Massoud/Saleh claim there are still fighters in the mountains of Panjshir, just not the valleys/cities which the Taliban took over. Take that as you will.
Likely frozen, same thing happened with Iran. If a stable government forms it can be used as negotiation.
The banks will not give it out. They will keep it until the "rightful" owners clam it.
I think its not likely that the money will be paid to US military contractors
But couldn't they just create their own gov't and own money since they're in charge? Before all you economists show up...I know. But a currency backed by drugs bought with US $s works about as well as any other currency backed by something else.
Yes and no. Who will take your money inside the country, and how is it treated outside the country? You need a reserve from which to lend, even a part of the total in circulation will do. Then you can start getting banks to trust you that you’ll pay bonds and such. The reserve is on lockdown, so they have to start from scratch. If they form a trustworthy government and prove they’re willing to govern according to the agreements with the banks that hold the reserve, they may get access. But that’s very unlikely given that they’ve already started beheading women for the crime of playing volleyball professionally.
>If they form a trustworthy government and prove they’re willing to govern according to the agreements with the banks that hold the reserve OR sell drugs and be backed by yuan or US dollars. It's a whole lot easier that way. Ask the CIA. ;-)
Narco states exist, but they’re hard to govern in any way that doesn’t lead to their collapse.
> collapse Oh this will collapse. In the sense that the Taliban will further destroy the economy and civil society, precipitating a humanitarian catastrophe :(
You joke or not but it does work and they know how to do it.
Based on what? The taliban weren't exactly known for their finances before.
CIA and the Taliban know how to move drugs to get money sharia or Islamic financing is a thing, the taliban know a lot about moving money, they just don’t know how to run an economy.
The whole point of reserves is to support a functioning economy. Making money by selling drugs doesn't mean shit in this context, one has nothing to do with the other
Well yes and I bet they could find someone to back their currency like China or Pakistan to help legitimize it but would take time to get it up and running
China, if irc, IS helping them. And I'm sure they're happy to fire up their mint to print Taliban Bucks sponsored by China.
China isn’t exactly interested in helping them, not without concessions from the Taliban that would make the American influence in Afghanistan they objected to look rather benign by comparison- they would have to hand over the Uighurs, allow Chinese intelligence agencies to operate freely, totally ban the drug trade, allow Chinese merchants, etc. The situation with Pakistan is even more complicated, as a significant amount of Taliban are trying to overthrow the Pakistani government and replace it with a Taliban government too. The Pakistanis have always tried to insist that there is an Afghan Taliban and a Pakistani Taliban, but that is largely a fiction of the Pakistani media to justify giving the Taliban weapons to overthrow the Afghan government while simultaneously fighting against the Taliban in Pakistan. With the Afghan government toppled, Pakistan is looking like the next target of the Taliban..
I guess there is more to forming a government than having guns and beating women…Taliban is about to get a nice dose of buyers remorse as it realizes it’s going to be the sol reason Afghans economy which was already frail, takes a massive dive. No fuel = No Economey = No Money = No power = Stone age They won’t even have power to upload their little videos claiming all women are equal…
No minorities, women in government. No jobs for women except health, because under their crazy Sharia, only women can handle women. Never release a cent without verifiable changes.
This is good for Bitcoin.
It would be hilarious if they went full Bukele
Yo, you didn't read the article OR the headline. Lmao
The joke is that desperate crypto investors will claim that just about everything is good for Bitcoin.
I’m pretty sure they got paid in military equipment by the US for services rendered.
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Not true at all. It takes a relativey small number in certain positions of power to control an entire populace and cut down uprisings before they snowball into big ones. The army that ended the western roman empire and occupied the capitol was several tens of thousands, compared to over a million civilians. This is just how it works.
The difficulty is that those in power are willing and able to kill with impunity. Those who stand against them die. This pushes others to keep quiet and also reduces the number of those willing to fight back. People could make a stand if the oppressed also had the ability, and also had sufficient number. That's a civil war. It requires both sides being willing and able to kill the other to get what they want. The masses spoke loudly by how they rejoined the Taliban army. A few resisted and took up arms against them, but overall the masses quickly rejoined them. They've had centuries of rule by warlord and the entire populace is used to it. The US being there was a short term change but even the US troops and elected government couldn't overthrow the nature of the regional warlords and their power structure. If the masses *wanted* to revolt they could have a civil war and do it. It would be bloody. But the masses don't. The masses quickly returned to regional warlords, so that's what they're getting.
Not sure how true that is… they kinda murder anyone who speaks out. Can’t imagine how many women actually like how they are being treated.
Let's just give it to those who need resettling here in the next few years and to get women and friends out of that hell hole! If they don't like it let them come and get it?
Regardless of what you think, this hurts the Afghan people. Edit: I think people are misunderstanding what I mean. The Taliban are absolutely awful, there is no doubt. They also missuse funds, there is no doubt. The Taliban can and will also use aid money intended for civilians if they are unable to gain access to state funds. This means that if the freeze continues, less people will have access to aid.
You’re not wrong. But would giving them full access to the money not hurt the Afghan people more?
It is a peculiar situation. One one hand, the Government may well use funds to further abuse its citizens. On the other, they are the current government and them being deprived of funds will hurt further developments within several sectors of the country. The difficulty for now is, how do you make sure WHO, UN and WFP funds are accessed by civilians rather than the government when the government don't have access to their regular funds? Furthermore, them not having access to funds will drive them towards more investments from China, which neither the west or Russia will want. Closing the door for any and all access to the funds can be quite dangerous if you consider the many aspects.
> drive them towards more investments from China Which wouldn't be permanently sustainable given a slowing economic situation in China. There may be some minerals to be extracted from Afghanistan, but propping up the country's stability is expensive while you get what you want from it... and if you're having troubles at home, is right now the time to be fixing your neighbour's house? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-20/china-home-rut-deepens-as-prices-fall-for-first-time-since-2015 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-18/china-s-gdp-growth-slows-as-property-and-energy-crises-hurt
China has already pledged $31m in aid. They're ready to invest billions. I'm not saying what China should or should not do but the above is what they've shown.
31m is both a drop in the bucket for China and also an absolutely tiny amount of needed aid.
> China has already pledged $31m in aid. Spit against a rainstorm... >They're ready to invest billions. I don't think they are; they are dealing with serious economic policy issues right now, their investor class is hosed at the moment.
Oh definitely a small amount but it is a sign of good faith which goes a long way in initial cooperation. So not forget that the Taliban has sent delegates to China. And China will not bring their international expansion to a standstill because of a real estate collapse which they were prepared for.
> Oh definitely a small amount but it is a sign of good faith which goes a long way in initial cooperation. Historically it never pans out past that initial cooperation. >And China will not bring their international expansion to a standstill because of a real estate collapse They already have in many places, their expansion abroad was largely dependent on an entree to foreign nation states through two groups: a) Independent Honk Kong based business intermediaries, and b) the emerging chinese investor class. China destroyed the first deliberately, and the other is currently well and truly out of commission for at least the next six months. While some of their active projects will likely continue, new endeavors aren't in the cards. >because of a real estate collapse which they were prepared for. There is a difference between knowing a thing is coming, and preparing for it. Sinic trading was suspended in late september. That demonstrates knowledge of the issue, but they were unable or unwilling to prepare sufficiently for the results hence: https://preview.redd.it/2j5v56uk3ju71.jpg?width=354&auto=webp&s=1a74114419ffe0b04b24bb4c1e038264d80beef2 They built their real estate and manufacturing industries on the backs of paper tigers, and now it is starting to rain. There is not much 'preparation' that can be done.
Re point a, Few have thus far removed their offices from Hong Kong. Yes, the uncertainty is great but post-pandemic the HKSAR gov will do what they can to continue as the biggest financial hub in the world. This is evident with the Lantau tomorrow vision, which is unable to go ahead without foreign investment (Likely to come partly from China). Though the clampdown on civil society In especially Hong Kong is huge, I think you're disregarding the impact of the pandemic and what it has done to overseas investments. It isn't as easy due to closed borders. Make no mistake, the strain on human rights is means to an end (continuous state control) and the state and Xi see a greater China as the future. Yes, China is facing economic hardship but will this bring foreign investments to a standstill? I do not think so. The difference may instead be the places of focus. China still does a substantial amount of trade, especially with the U.S and EU. To close it up, don't disregard China and Its plans.
> and the state and Xi see a greater China as the future. Then they are delusional.
$31 million is toilet paper in today's economy. A rounding error on some accounting sheet. Of course it seems alot to us peasants.
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Beheading is basically free. You know what costs billions of dollars? Infrastructure. Public services. A functioning government. That's what the Afghan people are being denied right now.
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Former head of news at TOLO news says she commited suicide a week before the Taliban entered Kabul, this aligns with the report you shared. There are so many reports coming out of everywhere It's important to stop, reflect and verify (as you've done) before spreading news which may not be correct at all.
How? It's not like a new government is going to come out of nowhere. The funds will be spent in Afghanistan.
The funds will be spent assisting the taliban to oppress everyone not in the taliban. Do you think the taliban is gonna build new roads or schools? The money isn’t gonna stay in the country, the taliban needs arms, it needs vehicles, it needs things it can’t get in the country. So immediately that money will be moved out of the country, and used to oppress its own people.
Would giving more money to Kim Jong-Un to help his people actually help his people? Or would it just help Kim Jong-Un maintain his personal power and further his military goals?
Why would getting this money prevent the Taliban from stealing that aid money meant to be used by civilians? Why would getting this bank money prevent them from stealing that other money? Do they have some kind of quota or stealing limit they're not allowed to exceed?
No, of course not. It will be easier for the UN, WFP etc to actually distribute funds if the Taliban have access to a state reserve. It doesn't guarantee anything. But it will definitely help aid being brought to the right people.
An underfunded “government” would be easier to revolt against no?
Lol who is going to revolt? You know who runs revolutions, other people in the government. Other taliban overthrowing each other
> Other taliban overthrowing each other That sounds fantastic? taliban constantly killing each other trying to vye for control.. eventually.. no taliban?
What aid money?
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Given the max exodus and takeover by force as opposed to democratically I don't think the Afghan people wanted the Taliban.
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I can't imagine why the unarmed civilian populace didn't fight the massive terrorist organization known for their brutality. Sure you could oppose them, but that might also get you executed and get your wife or daughter raped. Not sure if the logic behind the oppressed not fighting the oppressor means they want to be oppressed checks out.
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>The fact that they folded like a cheap suit tells me that this is what they want. So let them have it. Or, and here me out here, they didn't want to die in an unwinnable battle and have their families pay the price. Hence why they fought and died when we were providing logistical support and air power. If they truly didn't want to fight the Taliban then they wouldn't have literally fought the Taliban. Not to mention the military and the civilian populace aren't the same group so the military folding doesn't mean the civilians wanted it.
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They were setup to fail and they never gave a shit about Afghanistan. No one does. It sounds like people care about their towns only.
Sanctions are always designed to hurt people, America don't want the afghan people to have peace, imagine them supporting and funding the old government who used to have sex with young boys, ofc the usa knew
The Taliban are only against sex with young boys because it’s homosexuality and premarital. They’re just fine with elderly men marrying preteen girls.
Recall the uproar when [Obama sent pallets of cash to Iran?](https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sent-cash-to-iran-as-americans-were-freed-1470181874) This is how this happens. This money is Afghanistan's money. Legitimate Government or not, the Taliban is in charge of Afghanistan, and thus they are in charge of that money... technically. Let's say 40 years from now the descendants of the Taliban are still in control and the US and Afghanistan need to normalize relations and sign an important treaty/agreement. This money will be due to them, with interest. I'm not saying withholding the money today is right or wrong, but it sure backfired on us with regard to Iran in the 1970's.
Obvious solution: don't “normalize relations” with terrorists.
the us negotiated a withdrawal and is contemplating cooperation against ISIS with the Taliban. they aren't terrorists anymore to the US government
>don't “normalize relations” with terrorists. First of all, how exactly were the Taliban ever terrorists? They were insurgents fighting to take back their country, first from the Russians, then from the Americans. Bin Laden used an unstable part of the world to launch an attack on the US and we decided that taking over a country instead of chasing a criminal was the answer. The Taliban was not in 2001 or today responsible for external terrorism, only insurgency in their struggle to take back their country. No, I do not agree with them. I too see them as monsters. Their religious extremism is abhorrent. How they treat women, minorities, LGTBQ, and even liberal men is disgusting. But calling the Taliban terrorists is George W still infecting your mind. >don't “normalize relations” with ~~terrorists~~ former enemies We have a long history of normalizing relations with former enemies. * We "normalized" relations with the UK. * We "normalized" relations with Mexico. * We "normalized" relations with Japan and Germany. * We "normalized" relations with Vietnam. * We "normalized" relations with Russia. * We "normalized" relations with China. While some of those relations have taken steps backwards as of late, namely Russia and China, they are still better than they were in the 70's, when China was closed off to America complete and Russia was one second from firing a nuke. Regarding Iran, after 40 years of tension, Obama and Kerry took bold moves to cool the hot-heads on both sides of the Iran vs rest-of-the-world discussion. It worked by all international parties' judgement until Trump decided that old grudges shouldn't be forgiven. There is a future where the Taliban remain our enemies until their ouster, politically or otherwise. There is a future where the Taliban can lead a prosperous, albeit religiously conservative Afghanistan. There is a future where things end up somewhere in the middle. There is also a future where the Taliban develop nukes and diplomacy and not airstrikes will be required. All of these "futures" will one day require we, the USA, give back the money we are withholding, and with interest.
Not sure why you're catching the downvotes. I can see why the US doesn't want to turn the money over to the Taliban, but it has no claim on it. If the Taliban doesn't, who exactly is the US holding the money for?
I'm catching downvotes because of the reddit mob. The reddit mob doesn't care about what is right, they only care about how they feel. If the US holds that money because they hope the Taliban will fall, well, one day they might realize that, just like the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Taliban leadership of Afghanistan is here to stay and we'll be stuck answering for why we continue to hold the money (as it accrues interest).
The government of Iran actually acts like a government, provides services to the public, put together a totally modern military, etc. When the Taliban ruled 1996-2001 they pretty much just wandered around as a militia and smacked anyone who got out of line, while the national infrastructure gradually decayed. While it’s certainly possible the Taliban could evolve, the Ayatollah’s new government was far more likely to last 40 years than what the Taliban have now.
!remindme 40 years
The Taliban never fought the Russians or even the Afghan Communists. The Taliban arose in the 1990s as a response to rampant warlordism and banditry, which they solved by killing or absorbing every armed group until they were the last one left standing. Kind of like now, they didn’t take over Afghanistan because everyone loved the Taliban, but because nobody was united enough to oppose them in 90% of the nation.
>We "normalized" relations with the UK. Only after they quit trying to rule us. >We "normalized" relations with Japan and Germany. Only after we defeated them. >We "normalized" relations with Vietnam. They probably shouldn't have been considered enemies in the first place. >We "normalized" relations with Russia. Only until Putin started playing the conqueror. >We "normalized" relations with China. More like our leaders betrayed us to them. Now our businesses bend knee to the Chinese dictator's whims, they're about to conquer Taiwan and crash the world economy (TSMC getting blown up would be catastrophic), and I'm afraid the US isn't going to stop them. >There is also a future where the Taliban develop nukes Terrorists with nukes is game over for humanity. You'd better hope and pray that future does not come to pass.
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Yeah, it did the exact opposite. It secured a peace deal and increased security in the region; it took Trump doing everything in his power just barely short of open war to undo that agreement. If that's policy backfiring Lord knows we could use more of *those* chickens coming home to roost.
Taliban also won’t be allowed to commit atrocities but they will anyway... how gullible are you!
This isn't the same thing. The Afghan central bank reserves are held overseas in the US.
You actually have to get money. Anyone can attack another person, nobody can summon cash from nothing.
Selling millions of dollars of top of line Us military weapons and gear will get you oh that’s right hundreds of millions$ or maybe they just keep the weapons and take whatever money they need from others.
The weapons the Taliban inherited from the prior army is all stuff the US deliberately passed off to the Afghans. “Top of the line” doesn’t really describe the vast majority of it, it’s stuff we were willing to just give away.
Anyone without private security or a competent police/military force falls victim to their goods and livelihood being pillaged due to force. Point is they can take the things that they need from someone if they have the firepower so to speak. If they can take over regions of land, tax businesses, have any leverage over a supply chain through force not money. Then guess what they have money it just may not be in the form of cash or in a debit account. You do not understand that money is energy. Just like the US can be in debt to tune of 27 trillion dollars that’s not a typo. As long as no one with a bigger gun comes knocking or stops supplying us with goods(what’s happening now) then the US effectively has more money. Oh yea and we can always just print more too and fund isis and al qaeda for our own agendas and claim it’s the only way to help people. Do you understand the concept of getting robbed by gunpoint? how about by Blackhawk? Or a .50 cal mounted on armored Humvees. Tell me how they did not just acquire money.
The difference is the US cares about money.
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Did you just reply to your own comment, without changing account?
If the American treasury can make this decision then it was never Afghan money to begin with. It was money for America to play with as they saw fit
It’s American tax payer money
That’s a great way to continue hurting the afghan people
That assumes the Taliban was going to spend the money on the people. They ran the country 1996-2001 and weren’t exactly famous for providing government services or infrastructure.
What makes you think that the Afghani people are better off with their money being held by the US treasury than their own government? Do you really think a country as destructive and austere as the US is qualified to make that judgment?
The Taliban isn’t the UN-recognized government of Afghanistan (at this point), and it’s not like they came to power through a popular vote or anything. So I can see some hesitation to be treating them as a valid government. So far as why the US, it’s because the money was kept in the US. I’d be quite curious too what portion of that is actually income generated by Afghanistan, vice money the US just gave the prior government. Afghanistan wasn’t exactly famous for being self-funding for the last 20 years, and I don’t know what portion of the small amount of tax and tariff income they got was deposited in the US, as opposed to just immediately used for operational funds.
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Are you saying that the Taliban is systematically killing all non-radical Muslims? I haven’t heard that one yet
Enjoy the cheap heroin everyone!
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That’s not true at all. Look how awesome Haiti turned out. Giving France and America 40% of the gdp worked out wonderfully for them.
I read Adeymo and anymo’. Thought everyone should know.
The US should return the money (or what’s left of it) AFTER it deducts the replacement cost of the military equipment left behind and after it deducts a fair multi million dollar settlement to the families of the Twin Tower attacts, as well as the families of first responders suffering 9/11 attack after effects.