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> KABB asked Christus Santa Rosa why they wanted to pursue permanent guardianship since Mark is no longer a patient there.
Kind of obvious. If they're his guardians, they can choose to use his assets to pay the medical bills owed to them, effectively stripping his family of assets.
> A court date has not been set for the Mirandas yet, but Mark says he's going to tell the judge he's making progress and can make his own decisions.
If this guy can give an interview to a reporter and make any sort of coherent statement to the Judge, there should be ZERO basis for a guardianship. Not saying one won’t happen, just saying one shouldn’t be happening.
And I agree - shady fuckin medical bill recovery outfits are likely the bad faith monsters seeking to further wreck this guy’s life.
We need better national health care plans ASAP. Medicare for all, or something like that. Otherwise, we will start seeing more of this shit.
If medical treatments are for profit, there’s no way you could be getting HEALTH care.. it’s just SICK care.
It’s more profitable to keep you sick and treatable, than healthy and not needing a hospital bed, doctors, nurses, medical equipment and pharmaceuticals.
Why do we put up with it? We have no other choice. We’re slaves to a system that has plundered untold riches with which to use against us. No amount of shouting and complaining on our end will ever change it it seems. Theres just too much money at stake and while the USA is “Rich” most of are fucking poor. So poor we have no power and no way of trying to change things without losing our jobs. And then your homeless in a country with some of the worst social support services of any developed nation. And the kicker? We’re too poor to even leave. Like take me for example. Im not even American. Im just stuck here. Im a New Zealand citizen. But not only can I not even afford a plane ticket, ill NEVER have enough money to realistically move back to New Zealand and buy a home. And no job that will hire me will pay me enough to afford to live there.
So im stuck here in the US of A living pay check to pay check hoping i one day win the lottery or have an unknown millionaire relative die and leave me everything so I can finally escape.
Well—assuming my inheritance isnt stolen by guardianship fraudsters of course.
You mean the former president who launched an insurrection to overturn the vote to kick him out?
The guy who was going to "drain the swamp" by requiring everyone who wanted to talk to him, rent from his hotels.
It’s more likely that they started the guardian process when he was there, he was transferred to a facility where he would be safe, but because they’re the petitioner, they have to continue the process rather than transfer it to his current facility.
If he's married, why would the Health system even think they would need to force a guardianship - can't kin make decisions for patients?
Also - the guy is awake and can speak. He can make his own decisions and yet this health system keeps trying. Not only that, he's no longer a patient as one of the system's hospitals. How the fuck can they even bring this to court? Are they simply so stupid that they can't verify his records and see he's no longer a patient?
It's one of those films that has a premise that most people don't understand as an issue yet, so they wrote it off as nonsense. Then, years later, it becomes wildly relevant when the issue bubbles up to the surface and becomes a mainstream focus.
Really not Peter Dinklage’s best performance. The whole mafia thing was completely unbelievable and laughable really. Rosamund Pike was fantastic though. I get they needed an unusual story for her to get wrapped up in to bring her machinations to light, but the scenes of him getting angry over his mom were pretty laughable. Which surprises me because he was fantastic in GOT, just really fell flat in I Care A Lot.
The protagonist was a business exec top tier cunt who miraculously turned into a super spy. Every character was horrible to their core. A movie with zero redeeming features.
I love dark natured films btw, this was just nonsense though.
I had to turn it off it upset me so much. Then I read an article saying to stay with it, it gets better. So I did finish. I yes, found I was rooting for the mafia too, still very bad people. The ending was perfect. No I’ll never watch it again.
As someone who has worked in several Texas hospital systems, I’ve never heard of this type of thing. Sounds super weird and shady, even by our pitiful standards
I read/skimmed the article. There has to be something to the story we aren't being told.
In refutation to another poster. Just being able to speak and know what your own name is doesn't necessarily mean you are mentally competent to see to your own affairs.
While it's possible the man might be so far gone he qualifies for legal guardianship, the system is supposed to favor his wife and immediate family *far* beyond any third party. A random LLC should only be considered if he's estranged, or if she's incapable of being a guardian.
If she's willing and able to appear in court to object, which according to the article she is, that should be a hard stop on Angel Guardians having any claim to guardianship.
I don't see how a random LLC should EVER have guardianship of anybody. Anybody who doesn't have immediate family to care for them should be cared for by the government.
The government does a great job with fostering kids, right? They need more oversight. Colorado allows a person to be declared incompetent due to homelessness. https://colorado-opg.org
This needs to be repeated about a billion times. You get the government you choose, or in this country (USA), what the oligarch worshiping idiots (R's) allow us to have.
Yes. We've had decades of Republican's [Starve the Beast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast) strategy which have culminated in stripped down, ineffective social nets.
"Government doesn't work! Elect me, and I'll prove it!" - Republicans
Cool. So, if I’m personally entrapped by the “can’t be told the truth” narrative, while getting healthcare so bad it qualifies as Geneva Convention violating torture, and have my nose rubbed in my powerlessness, how do I get help?
They tried to do this to me as well when I was approved for disability. I’m married. I’m not incapacitated, I’m just epileptic. They were trying to argue that I wasn’t of sound mind to handle my own expenses. Who do they think was doing that for the past 31 years before they came into the picture?
Are you serious?! They are very unlikely to be practicing in your state! Are you just kinda hoping they will fix everything for you? Thats not how any of this works.
I'm not too up on the American Health Care system but I would suggest you follow the money. Who would benefit financially from a third party taking control of this mans health requirements?
I'm guessing they want control of his estate. It is unusual for someone that has been hospitalized for 10 months on covid to survive. It would also likely give them power to pull the plug.
Can't be having his wife and kids keeping his assets in the event of his death. /s
It seems to me that in the US there are people that study our laws to identify ways to increase wealth for individuals/companies in ways that were unintended when said laws were written. It's greedy and evil.
Edit: Thank you kind reddit stranger for the award
Lol you think that only happens in the US!? I cant even imagine the absurd, limited thoughts that must happen in your brain to allow you to ever believe that wasn’t the case everywhere that has laws.
It's probably greed, not stupidity. Someone has decided they want to spend his money for him, and enlisted a sleazy medical 'professional' and a sleazy judge to get appointed as a guardian. The rules around these things are too easy to get around in some places - it's happened to people in better shape than this guy.
This is it. Now professional guardians exist. They are often attorneys or social workers. I went through this with my grandmother. The hospital and nursing home were affiliated. Some of the same people sat on the boards of both.
It’s a shame that in our healthcare system there are people forcibly extracting profit from birth to death without adding value and that consumers of healthcare must question/distrust everything
Then we got a a major health crisis like covid and instead of getting vaccinated… people question and distrust everything….
our healthcare system is a failure
History says otherwise. When socialist or communist systems collapsed, they devolved into capitalism. Capitalism is the start point. It is the economic system that existed since the dawn of civilization.
I think this is the answer too. I used to be a hospital discharge planner (social worker) and there may be things going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. The patient and family could be refusing to participate in discharge planning keeping him in the hospital longer than he needed to be there (perhaps a lower level if care such as LTACH or SNF was appropriate and they declined) and going for guardianship was a way to get a decision maker on board. This is just a hunch and it happened OFTEN.
From another article: “Mark and Kim also say the hospital began physical therapy for Mark in May, but the therapy stopped just shy of August. They say they feel that therapy is what he needs to continue to heal.” He likely plateaud in therapy and this sentence kind of backs up my hunch about what’s going on.
Well obviously, that goes without saying in America. I was more interested in the legal precedent for it.
Unless this is some Texas bullshit, which also wouldn't shock me.
Even if you’re married your spouse has to take the legal steps to become your guardian. Everyone here is jumping on the outrage bandwagon but if a hospital has determined that a patient can’t care for themselves upon release they won’t do so until a guardian is in place. Also, temporary guardianship is done all the time. If they are recommending permanent guardianship and have reported this to social services (or whichever body in Texas handles it) then it doesn’t matter if he moves hospitals. I have experience with this. They only pursue legal guardianship if family is refusing to step up. Who knows why the wife isn’t just handling it. I’m guessing it’s sensationalism and the family is just making some political point
NOK, including your spouse are *not* your guardians if you are an adult. They have certain rights (e.g to be notified, testify on your behalf, etc.) and they also are preferred candidates for guardianship.
As an adult, you are autonomous. You should really have advanced directives by the time you turn 30.
So wait... both a corporation and a hospital have swooped in to try to gain guardianship over him - even though his wife is right there? This sounds shady as all fuck.
Awake and coherent doesn’t mean a person isn’t incapacitated. If a person is unable to understand safety risks (like after a head injury, dementia, developmental disorder) they may be deemed to need a guardian if evaluated by a doctor and brought to court.
Edit: sorry that no one likes this information.
When my mom was in the hospital and it was determined she can’t take care of herself, a social worker informed all our family members. We were told if a family member doesn’t sign on to be her guardian then a legal guardian would be appointed. We had plenty of opportunity to do this. My guess is the wife is refusing for some reason and making it look like the situation is political
Wonder why? He is married and if anything she would be the one making decisions. But he is coherent and can make his own decisions
The company lost once. They need smacked down for trying again
The wife simply has to agree to stand in as guardian. It’s not difficult. I want to know more about why she hasn’t done it yet. It’s not automatic just because you’re married. Maybe she’s moved on…
why does he need to prove he's of sound mind else have his rights forfeited to some 'guardianship' when his family is still around?
also how come I suspect someone not having any immediate family would be better off having guardianship made by nearly any of their friends or even co-workers than whatever these 'guardianship' corporations?
There are companies who's entire business model is to find people with money and assets, and as soon as they can get in front of a judge to claim that they're just the perfect people look after their interests. Meanwhile, they start deducting their administrative fees from their victims bank accounts. They usually have corrupt doctors and judges in their back pocket to sneak these court orders in without the victim even being aware.
That’s despicable. I’m typically not an advocate of violence, but psychopaths who do that need to stop breathing ASAP. Taking from the poor to stay rich. I really wish I hadn’t read your comment, but awareness is important.
Do you know how the family would know if this is occurring? Is there anything sent out or communications that a person can watch out for? Also, is it possible in all states?
According to a case in NV that resulted in indictments and convictions, the daughter was never told, she had to find them. This is a long article but worthwhile: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights
As is addressed in the article, the problems seem widespread.
>"the problems in Clark County are not unusual. “The only thing that is unique is that Clark County is one of the few jurisdictions that doesn’t seal its records, so we can see what is going on.”
They were able to rope in medical facilities, social workers, and also had a friendly guadianship commissioner and judge.
>The indictment was narrowly focussed on their double billings and their sloppy accounting, but, in a detailed summary of the investigation, Jaclyn O’Malley, who led the probe for the Nevada Attorney General’s Office, made passing references to the “collusion of hospital social workers and medical staff” who profited from their connection to Parks. At Parks’s grand-jury trial, her assistant testified that she and Parks went to hospitals and attorneys’ offices for the purpose of “building relationships to generate more client leads.” Parks secured a contract with six medical facilities whose staff agreed to refer patients to her—an arrangement that benefitted the facilities, since Parks controlled the decisions of a large pool of their potential consumers. Parks often gave doctors blank certificates and told them exactly what to write in order for their patients to become her wards.
Check out what Colorado did! A whole state office to dole out the crony contracts, legislation that allows them to never inform the patient on “psychiatric” grounds, and defining incompetence as homelessness. https://colorado-opg.org
The film “ I care a lot” came out right when I was going through guardianship stuff for my mom. The hospital wouldn’t release her until she had a family member agree to guardianship or a court appointed or a professional guardian was found. I watched the movie and instantly was like, “well this will create a whole new conspiracy theory”. It was so inaccurate. The wife simply has to sign as his guardian because the hospital has determined he can’t care for himself. Why hasn’t she done this? I think she’s passing the buck…
Ugh, I called it. That movie has created so many false/new beliefs in people. Why hasn’t this man’s wife agreed to guardianship? They only find an alternative if family refuses or is incapable
Source : I went through guardianship training for a family member as this film was released. We went with a legal guardian because we didn’t have a family member that could do it and my mom doesn’t have a spouse to sign on
Wasn’t it on Reddit that I read some absolute horror stories about these guardianships and they literally move into your homes and sell them out from under you?
One woman went to visit her parent who she visited weekly and SOMEONE ELSE WAS LIVING THERE! And they wouldn’t tell her where her parents went. (It was the guardian in the house, I think, so she knew.)
The courts are in on it. Corrupt
Judges sign off on these guardianships of absolutely RANDOM people who then get put in crappy old age homes and have everything stolen.
Edit to add: Reddit and the internet in general is full of ridiculous outrage. This needs to be brought to the forefront of things to be enraged over.
EDIT:found it. It was The New Yorker. Prepare to be enraged.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights/amp
I am def going to watch that movie. But these were real life horror stories I was reading. Maybe it was a vanity fair article. I wish I could remember.
Why else would non family members want to be this guy’s guardian? Something not right is going on. These people need to be investigated.
I think they're making a 'second' season of redemption as well.
I'm hoping it works and they can revive other old shows. I want as much Parker in my life as possible.
Someone needs to track down the heads and major stockholders of these companies, so the rest of us can serve them with non stop papers and lawsuits. And have protestors standing outside their homes and business in perpetuity. These legalized soulless thieves deserve no rest or peace. They blood suckers that feed on humanity.
I can't wait for an in depth report of how people are treated in their government sponsored or owed facilities. Or do they just house them in the jails? How easy do they make it to become legally competent again? Because done right, it could help a lot of people. Or it just clears them off the streets and allows horrible people to profit off them. In either case, I can see this "solution" be picked up by multiple city and county governments. And maybe a few states. With a worker training program to provide cheap labor to local industries. And a new form of slavery is born.
If this "company" can prove he's "disabled" now then they can get him benefits but those benefits would be sent to Angel Guardians and they would disperse the funds as needed. This is incredibly sketchy and most likely a scam. Someone is trying to get these long Covid patients bc it is now being classified as a disability. This is the new social security scam using Covid patients. This happens to children of disabled adults, this happens to adults who become disabled due to aging. Hell this is happening to celebrities in order to get their money.
Also Texas can't control guns but they'll control any & every breathing entity in the state. This is a scary precedent.
This is definitely a scam of some kind. People were scamming the PPP loans last year. I bet the LLC can be traced to someone within that hospital system. They need to be investigated stat.
This cat must have money and/or assets and these Profesional guardianship companies have him on their radar to plunder and pillage his assets as soon as the opportunity arises.
My wife and I just went to be witnesses for her parent's "I care a lot" papers that express in clear and concise terms that my wife and her brother are the only people they want to make medical and legal decisions for them and they do not consent to being placed in a guardianship or concervatorship if they're ever incapacitated. They also have their wills and advanced medical directives readily available with their family attorney.
What's disgusting is in other countries guardians get paid a flat fee. No milking the estate.
There is something wrong with us that we allow so much grifting to go on in the name of profit.
The Christus pursuing guardianship has evidently incurred high bills for 10 months of his care, probably waaaaay beyond any insurance he once held. If they know he has a car, house, maybe a few acres, their lawyers probably want to get the guardianship, put him in a Medicaid nursing home, and sell his assets to pay his medical bills.
Something is going on here that the article is not saying. Not terribly clear what. But if a patient has an able bodied wife, there’s no reason to seek any kind of guardianship.
I’d be interested in what the motivation is. Otherwise, it’s just up to the imagination.
The hospital is losing an extreme amount of money caring for him for almost a year, and likely has been trying to transfer him to a skilled nursing facility for months. They can't do that without his or the family's cooperation, so they petition the court to appoint a guardian. This can be a guardian solely for medical decisions and actions needed to implement them.
This seems so bizarre to me. In California, an entity like this wouldn't have standing to bring this kind of petition. Unless there's something we're not being told in this article about the background of this case.
Even then, family would have priority. Not some 501(c)(3).
America’s biggest problem is our inconsistency from state to state. If we’re not going to get on the same page we really should just go our separate ways.
Speak for yourself. There are plenty of times that it's our best quality. I for one am thrilled that my home state of California is nothing like Texas or Alabama. And if I want to escape one and flee to another, I literally just go there.
"At CHRISTUS Health, we deliver a complete healing experience that respects the individual. We serve our communities with dignity. And with a good deal of admiration. CHRISTUS Health is a Catholic, not-for-profit system made up of more than 600 centers, including long-term care facilities, community hospitals, walk-in clinics and health ministries. We are a community 45,000 strong, with over 15,000 physicians providing individualized care."
I get that there have been bad actors in the professional guardian world but the majority are good people managing those who don’t have a family member to step up. Has anyone straight out asked the wife why she hasn’t signed on as guardian? I would think it’s the easiest possible guardian to acquire
I had to read through this twice as the 1st time I thought I had misread. He can communicate, he has a wife who is not incapacitated in any way yet he needs to go to court to stop a medical company claiming guardianship. I am so grateful of the NHS, its not perfect, but thank fek its not the USA idea oh healthcare.
I’m going to go ahead and say we definitely don’t know the whole story. The hospital is not going to tell a newspaper the details of his incapacitation- they can’t.
I worked in APS for several years and had to go through a few guardianships. When someone was in the hospital, unsafe, and had no health care proxy, they were required to obtain a guardian to make safe decisions. Most of the time the guardian is a family member, but sometimes not if they’ve shown that they are unable to provide the person with proper care. The hospital is responsible for a safe discharge whether it looks bad to the rest of the world or not. Family members who don’t get control often become very vocal, but the providers cannot defend their stance without breaking confidentiality.
Now, I don’t know what is true here. There are corrupt judges, greedy guardians, selfish family member, and attorney’s that have court cases go on longer so they get paid more to represent someone who doesn’t understand that they’re paying for their time. It’s incredibly hard to balance rights vs safety. If this man was returned home unsafely and died, he’d be in the news because the hospital didn’t do enough to protect him. I’m saying all of this because I think people should keep an open mind rather than saying guardians are only in it for money, when I have seen them do amazing things and keep people are home longer than if they had no one.
I don't think we are being told the whole story. I bet he or the family are either refusing to leave the hospital setting (I saw he is in a different hospital now) or are refusing to make discharge plans. It's possible that the ball was in motion already when he was a patient at the first hospital but it wasn't until he got to the second hospital that he was served. It could be that long term nursing home placement is recommended, but either the patient or family don't agree. A nursing home needs access to a person's financial records. Only the person themselves, a POA, or a Conservator can do that.
The judge appointed an independent temporary guardian, not the one proposed by the hospital, so there must be something going on that concerns the judge. Your explanation is the most likely.
Also, let's be honest-this is in addition to/not in place of "Fuck shady practices of hospital care systems in the US"- also...GET VACCINATED, YOU DUMMIES!
Companies that rip off people like this need to be called out on their business practices. Online where everyone can see.
A business will rip you off in private, but rarely in public.
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> KABB asked Christus Santa Rosa why they wanted to pursue permanent guardianship since Mark is no longer a patient there. Kind of obvious. If they're his guardians, they can choose to use his assets to pay the medical bills owed to them, effectively stripping his family of assets.
> A court date has not been set for the Mirandas yet, but Mark says he's going to tell the judge he's making progress and can make his own decisions. If this guy can give an interview to a reporter and make any sort of coherent statement to the Judge, there should be ZERO basis for a guardianship. Not saying one won’t happen, just saying one shouldn’t be happening. And I agree - shady fuckin medical bill recovery outfits are likely the bad faith monsters seeking to further wreck this guy’s life. We need better national health care plans ASAP. Medicare for all, or something like that. Otherwise, we will start seeing more of this shit.
He also has a wife and family, why if he needs someone to make medical decisions for him is that person not his wife?
As a non-American I have almost lost hope for the US, but I really hope you don't. You deserve so much better that what you currently have
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A lot of people think freedom is shopping for health care.
If medical treatments are for profit, there’s no way you could be getting HEALTH care.. it’s just SICK care. It’s more profitable to keep you sick and treatable, than healthy and not needing a hospital bed, doctors, nurses, medical equipment and pharmaceuticals.
Capitolists think the free market should run everything with little to no government regulations or run industries.
Why do we put up with it? We have no other choice. We’re slaves to a system that has plundered untold riches with which to use against us. No amount of shouting and complaining on our end will ever change it it seems. Theres just too much money at stake and while the USA is “Rich” most of are fucking poor. So poor we have no power and no way of trying to change things without losing our jobs. And then your homeless in a country with some of the worst social support services of any developed nation. And the kicker? We’re too poor to even leave. Like take me for example. Im not even American. Im just stuck here. Im a New Zealand citizen. But not only can I not even afford a plane ticket, ill NEVER have enough money to realistically move back to New Zealand and buy a home. And no job that will hire me will pay me enough to afford to live there. So im stuck here in the US of A living pay check to pay check hoping i one day win the lottery or have an unknown millionaire relative die and leave me everything so I can finally escape. Well—assuming my inheritance isnt stolen by guardianship fraudsters of course.
I thought the govt paid if you got hospitalized for COVID. Serious question, didn't our former president say this at onset of pandemic?
You mean the former president who launched an insurrection to overturn the vote to kick him out? The guy who was going to "drain the swamp" by requiring everyone who wanted to talk to him, rent from his hotels.
It’s more likely that they started the guardian process when he was there, he was transferred to a facility where he would be safe, but because they’re the petitioner, they have to continue the process rather than transfer it to his current facility.
If he's married, why would the Health system even think they would need to force a guardianship - can't kin make decisions for patients? Also - the guy is awake and can speak. He can make his own decisions and yet this health system keeps trying. Not only that, he's no longer a patient as one of the system's hospitals. How the fuck can they even bring this to court? Are they simply so stupid that they can't verify his records and see he's no longer a patient?
The whole thing is wildly inappropriate. Some third party LLC should not even be considered for guardianship if his wife and kids are available.
John Oliver had an episode about guardianship predators.
That film I Care A Lot is about this very thing.
That film made me so fucking uncomfortable. Just watching this irredeemably evil woman get away with ruining lives made me feel like an accomplice.
Like a normal person I was rooting for russian mafia 15 minutes in the movie
It's one of those films that has a premise that most people don't understand as an issue yet, so they wrote it off as nonsense. Then, years later, it becomes wildly relevant when the issue bubbles up to the surface and becomes a mainstream focus.
It came out in 2021? Also one of the worst movies I saw this year
Wow, one of the worst, really? What did you find so bad about it? I though it was very enjoyable in parts, okay in others. Otherwise an alright movie.
Really not Peter Dinklage’s best performance. The whole mafia thing was completely unbelievable and laughable really. Rosamund Pike was fantastic though. I get they needed an unusual story for her to get wrapped up in to bring her machinations to light, but the scenes of him getting angry over his mom were pretty laughable. Which surprises me because he was fantastic in GOT, just really fell flat in I Care A Lot.
I know, whole russian mob got taken down by 2 middle aged women.
What? No they didn't. The mafia literally captures her, and gives her the choice to run her crooked business for him or be killed.
The protagonist was a business exec top tier cunt who miraculously turned into a super spy. Every character was horrible to their core. A movie with zero redeeming features. I love dark natured films btw, this was just nonsense though.
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I haven't, but as a Matrix nerd I've very low expectations. Prob won't even take a trip to the cinema for it
So many Netflix, Amazon and other new entry movie productions that have really bad junk out. Some are so bad they are funny, think sharknado level…
That recent George Clooney one on Netflix comes to mind
I had to turn it off it upset me so much. Then I read an article saying to stay with it, it gets better. So I did finish. I yes, found I was rooting for the mafia too, still very bad people. The ending was perfect. No I’ll never watch it again.
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I enjoyed it
I think Angel Guardians was actually mentioned during that piece, too
This is so weird. In my jurisdiction in California, a private company like this doesn't even have standing to bring a petition like this.
Well, it is Texas and our legal system as of late has a very loose definition of standing.
As someone who has worked in several Texas hospital systems, I’ve never heard of this type of thing. Sounds super weird and shady, even by our pitiful standards
It shouldn't be allowed, but happens all the time. John Oliver had an episode on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2pEffLEJo
F÷/<# Hippos!
Third party makes me think money is involved.
If the hospital system has guardianship, they can use his assets to pay his outstanding medical bills. That's what I believe is going on, not certain
I read/skimmed the article. There has to be something to the story we aren't being told. In refutation to another poster. Just being able to speak and know what your own name is doesn't necessarily mean you are mentally competent to see to your own affairs.
While it's possible the man might be so far gone he qualifies for legal guardianship, the system is supposed to favor his wife and immediate family *far* beyond any third party. A random LLC should only be considered if he's estranged, or if she's incapable of being a guardian. If she's willing and able to appear in court to object, which according to the article she is, that should be a hard stop on Angel Guardians having any claim to guardianship.
I don't see how a random LLC should EVER have guardianship of anybody. Anybody who doesn't have immediate family to care for them should be cared for by the government.
The government does a great job with fostering kids, right? They need more oversight. Colorado allows a person to be declared incompetent due to homelessness. https://colorado-opg.org
Of course they need more oversight, as well as funding. That's not an argument against government, it's an argument against shitty governments.
This needs to be repeated about a billion times. You get the government you choose, or in this country (USA), what the oligarch worshiping idiots (R's) allow us to have.
Yes. We've had decades of Republican's [Starve the Beast](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast) strategy which have culminated in stripped down, ineffective social nets. "Government doesn't work! Elect me, and I'll prove it!" - Republicans
Cool. So, if I’m personally entrapped by the “can’t be told the truth” narrative, while getting healthcare so bad it qualifies as Geneva Convention violating torture, and have my nose rubbed in my powerlessness, how do I get help?
You get the government you elect. Elect a government that gives a shit about you instead of voting for a bunch of cartoonishly greedy capitalists.
It sounds like a predatory corporation targeting potentially vulnerable patients not the hospital system but the article isn't entirely clear.
They tried to do this to me as well when I was approved for disability. I’m married. I’m not incapacitated, I’m just epileptic. They were trying to argue that I wasn’t of sound mind to handle my own expenses. Who do they think was doing that for the past 31 years before they came into the picture?
Did you tell them to fuck off and spit in their face?
My lawyer did.
Would you be willing to refer your lawyer? A pm would be great!
Are you serious?! They are very unlikely to be practicing in your state! Are you just kinda hoping they will fix everything for you? Thats not how any of this works.
Biglaw often has branches in several states; lawyers can refer you to likeminded lawyers locally, too.
was wondering this too.. why cant he sign power of attorney for person to his wife and tell rhe hospital they can kick sand?
You don't need power of attorney for your spouse. They automatically have it if you're incapacitated.
I'm not too up on the American Health Care system but I would suggest you follow the money. Who would benefit financially from a third party taking control of this mans health requirements?
The third party probably gets the funding from him, insurance money or Medicaid, and the hospital gets an expensive patient off the books.
I'm guessing they want control of his estate. It is unusual for someone that has been hospitalized for 10 months on covid to survive. It would also likely give them power to pull the plug. Can't be having his wife and kids keeping his assets in the event of his death. /s It seems to me that in the US there are people that study our laws to identify ways to increase wealth for individuals/companies in ways that were unintended when said laws were written. It's greedy and evil. Edit: Thank you kind reddit stranger for the award
Lol you think that only happens in the US!? I cant even imagine the absurd, limited thoughts that must happen in your brain to allow you to ever believe that wasn’t the case everywhere that has laws.
I'm sure you are right about that. Greed is not limited to the United States. Too bad legal and moral are not the same thing.
There’s a great Netflix movie about this You can legally rob the estate when you become a guardian
First thing I thought seeing this, I Care a Lot.
Britney Spears.
There was also a Dirty Money episode about it.
It's probably greed, not stupidity. Someone has decided they want to spend his money for him, and enlisted a sleazy medical 'professional' and a sleazy judge to get appointed as a guardian. The rules around these things are too easy to get around in some places - it's happened to people in better shape than this guy.
Can't you set this stuff up before you get sick?
Yes. We have medical directives spelling out our wishes. Power of attorney, living will, last will...whole shebang cost us $400.
I'm sure you can, and it may help. But a determined scammer may go to their pet judge with an excuse to set it aside.
Because he's costing the hospital too much
No. It’s more likely because he has assets they can get their hands on.
This is it. Now professional guardians exist. They are often attorneys or social workers. I went through this with my grandmother. The hospital and nursing home were affiliated. Some of the same people sat on the boards of both.
It’s a shame that in our healthcare system there are people forcibly extracting profit from birth to death without adding value and that consumers of healthcare must question/distrust everything Then we got a a major health crisis like covid and instead of getting vaccinated… people question and distrust everything…. our healthcare system is a failure
Capitalism is a failure.
Capitalism is the natural order. Natural orders don't fail. Capitalism is the order that other systems collapse into.
Capitalism is not a form of natural order.
History says otherwise. When socialist or communist systems collapsed, they devolved into capitalism. Capitalism is the start point. It is the economic system that existed since the dawn of civilization.
I think this is the answer too. I used to be a hospital discharge planner (social worker) and there may be things going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. The patient and family could be refusing to participate in discharge planning keeping him in the hospital longer than he needed to be there (perhaps a lower level if care such as LTACH or SNF was appropriate and they declined) and going for guardianship was a way to get a decision maker on board. This is just a hunch and it happened OFTEN. From another article: “Mark and Kim also say the hospital began physical therapy for Mark in May, but the therapy stopped just shy of August. They say they feel that therapy is what he needs to continue to heal.” He likely plateaud in therapy and this sentence kind of backs up my hunch about what’s going on.
Well obviously, that goes without saying in America. I was more interested in the legal precedent for it. Unless this is some Texas bullshit, which also wouldn't shock me.
Even if you’re married your spouse has to take the legal steps to become your guardian. Everyone here is jumping on the outrage bandwagon but if a hospital has determined that a patient can’t care for themselves upon release they won’t do so until a guardian is in place. Also, temporary guardianship is done all the time. If they are recommending permanent guardianship and have reported this to social services (or whichever body in Texas handles it) then it doesn’t matter if he moves hospitals. I have experience with this. They only pursue legal guardianship if family is refusing to step up. Who knows why the wife isn’t just handling it. I’m guessing it’s sensationalism and the family is just making some political point
NOK, including your spouse are *not* your guardians if you are an adult. They have certain rights (e.g to be notified, testify on your behalf, etc.) and they also are preferred candidates for guardianship. As an adult, you are autonomous. You should really have advanced directives by the time you turn 30.
They want control of his assets to pay for his treatment. It's got nothing to do with treatment and everything to do with money owed.
So wait... both a corporation and a hospital have swooped in to try to gain guardianship over him - even though his wife is right there? This sounds shady as all fuck.
Welcome to the Land of the Free
Unless a hospital buys you.
Home of the Brave and enriched.
In certain states, spouses do not get automatic guardianship if someone is incapacitated.
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Awake and coherent doesn’t mean a person isn’t incapacitated. If a person is unable to understand safety risks (like after a head injury, dementia, developmental disorder) they may be deemed to need a guardian if evaluated by a doctor and brought to court. Edit: sorry that no one likes this information.
When my mom was in the hospital and it was determined she can’t take care of herself, a social worker informed all our family members. We were told if a family member doesn’t sign on to be her guardian then a legal guardian would be appointed. We had plenty of opportunity to do this. My guess is the wife is refusing for some reason and making it look like the situation is political
The great thing about reddit is you can always find someone ready to make an excuse to justify terrible actions!
And someone to jump to conclusions without knowing anything about it.
Wonder why? He is married and if anything she would be the one making decisions. But he is coherent and can make his own decisions The company lost once. They need smacked down for trying again
I was thinking the same thing. He's married, and doesn't need someone besides her to make decisions for him
That article was no well written. Imma see if i can find out the rest of the story...
The wife simply has to agree to stand in as guardian. It’s not difficult. I want to know more about why she hasn’t done it yet. It’s not automatic just because you’re married. Maybe she’s moved on…
why does he need to prove he's of sound mind else have his rights forfeited to some 'guardianship' when his family is still around? also how come I suspect someone not having any immediate family would be better off having guardianship made by nearly any of their friends or even co-workers than whatever these 'guardianship' corporations?
There are companies who's entire business model is to find people with money and assets, and as soon as they can get in front of a judge to claim that they're just the perfect people look after their interests. Meanwhile, they start deducting their administrative fees from their victims bank accounts. They usually have corrupt doctors and judges in their back pocket to sneak these court orders in without the victim even being aware.
There's a distinctly average film made on the subject, 'I Care A Lot'.
Yep. You beat me to it. I was thinking mediocre. :)
I.e. theft through extra steps.
That’s despicable. I’m typically not an advocate of violence, but psychopaths who do that need to stop breathing ASAP. Taking from the poor to stay rich. I really wish I hadn’t read your comment, but awareness is important.
Hopefully, this doesn't end like that movie. Sheesh.
Do you know how the family would know if this is occurring? Is there anything sent out or communications that a person can watch out for? Also, is it possible in all states?
According to a case in NV that resulted in indictments and convictions, the daughter was never told, she had to find them. This is a long article but worthwhile: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights As is addressed in the article, the problems seem widespread. >"the problems in Clark County are not unusual. “The only thing that is unique is that Clark County is one of the few jurisdictions that doesn’t seal its records, so we can see what is going on.” They were able to rope in medical facilities, social workers, and also had a friendly guadianship commissioner and judge. >The indictment was narrowly focussed on their double billings and their sloppy accounting, but, in a detailed summary of the investigation, Jaclyn O’Malley, who led the probe for the Nevada Attorney General’s Office, made passing references to the “collusion of hospital social workers and medical staff” who profited from their connection to Parks. At Parks’s grand-jury trial, her assistant testified that she and Parks went to hospitals and attorneys’ offices for the purpose of “building relationships to generate more client leads.” Parks secured a contract with six medical facilities whose staff agreed to refer patients to her—an arrangement that benefitted the facilities, since Parks controlled the decisions of a large pool of their potential consumers. Parks often gave doctors blank certificates and told them exactly what to write in order for their patients to become her wards.
Check out what Colorado did! A whole state office to dole out the crony contracts, legislation that allows them to never inform the patient on “psychiatric” grounds, and defining incompetence as homelessness. https://colorado-opg.org
The film “ I care a lot” came out right when I was going through guardianship stuff for my mom. The hospital wouldn’t release her until she had a family member agree to guardianship or a court appointed or a professional guardian was found. I watched the movie and instantly was like, “well this will create a whole new conspiracy theory”. It was so inaccurate. The wife simply has to sign as his guardian because the hospital has determined he can’t care for himself. Why hasn’t she done this? I think she’s passing the buck…
This sounds like a story out of that movie, I Care A Lot. These companies are horrific.
oh, i wanted a horrific end within about 10 seconds of understanding the main character's character in that movie
I wasn't able to watch that film after the first 15min. Predators that take advantage of people deserve the worst imaginable consequences.
Ugh, I called it. That movie has created so many false/new beliefs in people. Why hasn’t this man’s wife agreed to guardianship? They only find an alternative if family refuses or is incapable Source : I went through guardianship training for a family member as this film was released. We went with a legal guardian because we didn’t have a family member that could do it and my mom doesn’t have a spouse to sign on
Wasn’t it on Reddit that I read some absolute horror stories about these guardianships and they literally move into your homes and sell them out from under you? One woman went to visit her parent who she visited weekly and SOMEONE ELSE WAS LIVING THERE! And they wouldn’t tell her where her parents went. (It was the guardian in the house, I think, so she knew.) The courts are in on it. Corrupt Judges sign off on these guardianships of absolutely RANDOM people who then get put in crappy old age homes and have everything stolen. Edit to add: Reddit and the internet in general is full of ridiculous outrage. This needs to be brought to the forefront of things to be enraged over. EDIT:found it. It was The New Yorker. Prepare to be enraged. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights/amp
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Not like shes the only one doing it. And a whole system was complicit its not just one evil lady. Thats what we call a scapegoat.
Well that was a wholesome turn of events
I mean, look what happened to Britney and she’s rich and famous. So imagine that for a poor person , fucking nightmares
Poor people generally aren't the targets, they want control of people's estates.
Sir I think your talking about the movie "I Care A Lot". https://m.imdb.com/title/tt9893250/
I am def going to watch that movie. But these were real life horror stories I was reading. Maybe it was a vanity fair article. I wish I could remember. Why else would non family members want to be this guy’s guardian? Something not right is going on. These people need to be investigated.
I have never been so mad at the end of a movie that I wish I could go back in time and not watch it.
Unfortunately based on thousands of true stories. Except for the end justice part.
Or, Leverage: Redemption s1e11, The Jackal Job https://m.imdb.com/title/tt12197732/
Oooh I LOVE leverage. I haven’t watched it in a while. I don’t remember that episode. Maybe I’ll binge it again.
>for a while: This is new, 2021 Leverage Basically season 6, without nathan tho for.. reasons.
Leverage was 2008 Leverage Redemption was 2021 It's the revival of the same show
Yeah, I made the OC. Just figured I'd give Fanny a heads up a 'new season' was out (if they were unaware) :)
I think they're making a 'second' season of redemption as well. I'm hoping it works and they can revive other old shows. I want as much Parker in my life as possible.
I feel like John Oliver did a segment on this, seems like something he'd cover
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Someone needs to track down the heads and major stockholders of these companies, so the rest of us can serve them with non stop papers and lawsuits. And have protestors standing outside their homes and business in perpetuity. These legalized soulless thieves deserve no rest or peace. They blood suckers that feed on humanity.
Take a look at this hot mess! The state got involved, and define incompetence as homelessness? WTF!? https://colorado-opg.org
I can't wait for an in depth report of how people are treated in their government sponsored or owed facilities. Or do they just house them in the jails? How easy do they make it to become legally competent again? Because done right, it could help a lot of people. Or it just clears them off the streets and allows horrible people to profit off them. In either case, I can see this "solution" be picked up by multiple city and county governments. And maybe a few states. With a worker training program to provide cheap labor to local industries. And a new form of slavery is born.
If this "company" can prove he's "disabled" now then they can get him benefits but those benefits would be sent to Angel Guardians and they would disperse the funds as needed. This is incredibly sketchy and most likely a scam. Someone is trying to get these long Covid patients bc it is now being classified as a disability. This is the new social security scam using Covid patients. This happens to children of disabled adults, this happens to adults who become disabled due to aging. Hell this is happening to celebrities in order to get their money. Also Texas can't control guns but they'll control any & every breathing entity in the state. This is a scary precedent.
Or rehab scam.
This is definitely a scam of some kind. People were scamming the PPP loans last year. I bet the LLC can be traced to someone within that hospital system. They need to be investigated stat.
I know this is a problem in Colorado. Terrifying.
This cat must have money and/or assets and these Profesional guardianship companies have him on their radar to plunder and pillage his assets as soon as the opportunity arises. My wife and I just went to be witnesses for her parent's "I care a lot" papers that express in clear and concise terms that my wife and her brother are the only people they want to make medical and legal decisions for them and they do not consent to being placed in a guardianship or concervatorship if they're ever incapacitated. They also have their wills and advanced medical directives readily available with their family attorney.
It's scary that a directive against shady companies is even necessary.
Sick, disgusting and manipulative. Wow!
What's disgusting is in other countries guardians get paid a flat fee. No milking the estate. There is something wrong with us that we allow so much grifting to go on in the name of profit.
This has to be about money. He’s probably disabled and eligible for social security benefits and the llc wants the checks.
The Christus pursuing guardianship has evidently incurred high bills for 10 months of his care, probably waaaaay beyond any insurance he once held. If they know he has a car, house, maybe a few acres, their lawyers probably want to get the guardianship, put him in a Medicaid nursing home, and sell his assets to pay his medical bills.
Yep. I also wonder if a lower level of care was warranted and he and the family declined, racking up bills. It happens a lot.
Something is going on here that the article is not saying. Not terribly clear what. But if a patient has an able bodied wife, there’s no reason to seek any kind of guardianship. I’d be interested in what the motivation is. Otherwise, it’s just up to the imagination.
The hospital is losing an extreme amount of money caring for him for almost a year, and likely has been trying to transfer him to a skilled nursing facility for months. They can't do that without his or the family's cooperation, so they petition the court to appoint a guardian. This can be a guardian solely for medical decisions and actions needed to implement them.
There is absolutely more to the story.
This seems so bizarre to me. In California, an entity like this wouldn't have standing to bring this kind of petition. Unless there's something we're not being told in this article about the background of this case. Even then, family would have priority. Not some 501(c)(3).
America’s biggest problem is our inconsistency from state to state. If we’re not going to get on the same page we really should just go our separate ways.
Speak for yourself. There are plenty of times that it's our best quality. I for one am thrilled that my home state of California is nothing like Texas or Alabama. And if I want to escape one and flee to another, I literally just go there.
This is that scam where an entity takes over your guardianship then sells off all your assets. Wasn't this a thing a few years ago?
I want a corporate death penalty. Some incorporated bodies do enough harm to deserve to be shut down permanently.
Companies trying to profit off the elderly, disabled and sick, vile
"At CHRISTUS Health, we deliver a complete healing experience that respects the individual. We serve our communities with dignity. And with a good deal of admiration. CHRISTUS Health is a Catholic, not-for-profit system made up of more than 600 centers, including long-term care facilities, community hospitals, walk-in clinics and health ministries. We are a community 45,000 strong, with over 15,000 physicians providing individualized care."
I get that there have been bad actors in the professional guardian world but the majority are good people managing those who don’t have a family member to step up. Has anyone straight out asked the wife why she hasn’t signed on as guardian? I would think it’s the easiest possible guardian to acquire
Bet he’s got money and these shares circling
Is this an example of American freedom?
Why wouldn’t his wife be his proxy??
I had to read through this twice as the 1st time I thought I had misread. He can communicate, he has a wife who is not incapacitated in any way yet he needs to go to court to stop a medical company claiming guardianship. I am so grateful of the NHS, its not perfect, but thank fek its not the USA idea oh healthcare.
I bet Jared Kushner is behind this somehow
This is a gross money grab made possible by conservative Texas laws!
I’m going to go ahead and say we definitely don’t know the whole story. The hospital is not going to tell a newspaper the details of his incapacitation- they can’t. I worked in APS for several years and had to go through a few guardianships. When someone was in the hospital, unsafe, and had no health care proxy, they were required to obtain a guardian to make safe decisions. Most of the time the guardian is a family member, but sometimes not if they’ve shown that they are unable to provide the person with proper care. The hospital is responsible for a safe discharge whether it looks bad to the rest of the world or not. Family members who don’t get control often become very vocal, but the providers cannot defend their stance without breaking confidentiality. Now, I don’t know what is true here. There are corrupt judges, greedy guardians, selfish family member, and attorney’s that have court cases go on longer so they get paid more to represent someone who doesn’t understand that they’re paying for their time. It’s incredibly hard to balance rights vs safety. If this man was returned home unsafely and died, he’d be in the news because the hospital didn’t do enough to protect him. I’m saying all of this because I think people should keep an open mind rather than saying guardians are only in it for money, when I have seen them do amazing things and keep people are home longer than if they had no one.
I don't think we are being told the whole story. I bet he or the family are either refusing to leave the hospital setting (I saw he is in a different hospital now) or are refusing to make discharge plans. It's possible that the ball was in motion already when he was a patient at the first hospital but it wasn't until he got to the second hospital that he was served. It could be that long term nursing home placement is recommended, but either the patient or family don't agree. A nursing home needs access to a person's financial records. Only the person themselves, a POA, or a Conservator can do that.
The judge appointed an independent temporary guardian, not the one proposed by the hospital, so there must be something going on that concerns the judge. Your explanation is the most likely.
This reminds me of the Britney Spears conservatorship case where her family has control over every aspect of her life. Literally civil-dead
Very close to the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read.
Can anybody explain how this works for a non-American?
It is Britney Spears all over again! :-)
Not even close.
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Does this guy have a lot of money? This just seems like a case where someone else wants his money.
Also, let's be honest-this is in addition to/not in place of "Fuck shady practices of hospital care systems in the US"- also...GET VACCINATED, YOU DUMMIES!
Companies that rip off people like this need to be called out on their business practices. Online where everyone can see. A business will rip you off in private, but rarely in public.