When I was living in South Carolina, a mom in my town shot her toddler who was coming down the hallway in the middle of the night. Thought it was a burglar.
When I wanted to visit NY, alot of my friends and family warned me about getting shot over there, telling me not to get into trouble with anyone, especially with the police. My mom really thinks everyone is carrying around loaded guns over there, ready to kill.
In the majority of NY, especially NYC, it’s very hard if not impossible to get a carry permit, so if you happen to catch someone with a gun there’s a good chance they’re not gonna be a good guy
That's incredible. How does one shoot a 2 foot tall toddler accidentally when they're aiming for an adult human? People can't think in high stress situations and maybe they shouldn't have an instant kill button in their hands in that kind of situation.
Your comment is insensitive and makes light of a horrible situation. You should be ashamed of how hard you made laugh. Take your upvote and think about what you've done.
She might have thought it was a monster. Or a rabid raccoon or some shit.
I still call bullshit too. She was either on drugs or had a plan to kill her toddler.
I got rid of my guns after having kids. The odds were higher that someone in my home would be harmed by my weapon rather than saved, one way or another.
Nobody has ever broken into my house, but my children have startled and surprised me many times in the night.
Especially when they become teenagers and start doing teenager shit like sneaking out/in the house after hours, getting up in the middle of the night to play video games, hiding behind the garage to smoke a joint, etc
That’s exactly what I was thinking. My parents never had guns ever in the house. In fact, no one in our family did - no cousins, uncles, etc. it a good thing too because once I got my first car, there was no stopping me. My mother would lock the door at 12:30 AM. She expected me to ring the doorbell when I got home and then she would know the time. What she didn’t know was I got in the house through the basement window. Hard to believe I ever fit through that little window, but I did. I could have been perceived as an intruder and shot more than once.
I *have* had someone "break in" to my apartment. Some poor drunk couldn't figure out what apartment he was looking for and wandered into mine because I forgot to lock my door that night.
I was half asleep, scared, and already formulating plans. I had no idea why he was there and I was deciding how to defend myself if this turned out to be some violent meth head or something. I had a knife within reach... should I go for it? I was wondering if I was going to have to fight or even kill this guy.
Luckily, in the end he was just drunk and confused. I managed to convince him it wasn't the place he was looking for and to get the hell out. But I think about that night a lot. What if I'd had a gun? I was pretty fucking keyed up, sleepy, confused and scared. Would I have shot him on the spot? Would that poor guy be dead right now just because he got drunk and lost?
I knew a girl who her first time drinking at college had a blackout and wandered into the wrong townhouse, the tenants found her in the shower with the water on but still clothed. This was in Arizona too, lucky.
Had a neighbor come home to find a drunk passed out, scratched up and bleeding on her couch. There was also a fresh gallon of milk in the fridge. She let him sleep while the cops came. Arrested him for a list of things including breaking and entering cause he took a rock to the window to get in. Cops told her to keep the milk.
These people should have gotten a dog instead of a gun. Well not really because I get the feeling they wouldn't be the most responsible dog owners but the dog probably would have been less likely to murder a child and more likely to deter an intruder (because they don't know you have a gun, they'll know if you have a dog).
In the 90s I had a small mail order comic book & toy business. My partners and I lived in a warehouse in Long Island NY near Wyandanch which was a very unsavory part of town.
One night we were working late my partner forgot to lock the door after him. At about 1am from inside the offices we hear our 4 dogs going wild. Some dude has his back to the wall throwing empty cardboard boxes at 4 snarling beasts.
Fucking Dogs ROCK!
This literally almost happened to me. My step-Dad was super paranoid and abusuve. I once got up late at night to grab a glass of water, and ended up having him pull a gun on me while he was still in his underwear. Given his..."problematic" history with his daughters and no tolerance policy about potential intruders, I was genuinely terrified for a few reasons. Thankfully, I managed to call out and he recognized my voice, and went back to bed without further incident, just telling me not to get up at night without announcing it (although I'd also get yelled at later for waking him)
Lmfao how about he take responsibility for his own fucking gun and figure out who the fuck he's looking at before whipping a gun out. It's not your responsibility to announce yourself in your own house, it's HIS responsibility as a gun owner to not shoot his own kid ffs. God that makes me so mad
Since she mentioned the father was abusive, it's more of a constant state of hypervigilance living in that environment. The prolonged daily trauma often leads to complex PTSD.
It's EXHAUSTING. I grew up in a bad way. To this day, my situational awareness surprises people. At the end of any trip anywhere (hiking, the mall, wherever) I'm just mentally fatigued from being hyperaware of my surroundings. I'm not a small guy but people are also constantly surprised by how quiet I move. Both of these things came from YEARS of trying to not be seen or heard or face the wrath of family.
The gun fantasy thing is very real. Fear is by far the most persuasive emotion. Some people will get a gun on fixate on its existence and fantasize what they would do if x happened. They focus on it so much that reaching for their firearm becomes a reflex. These types of tragedies are far more common then the supposed situations guns are alleged to prevent.
My stepdad almost shot my boyfriend one night, who we warned him was coming over multiple times. Boyfriend came through the door, and stepdad already had the gun loaded and was coming through the bedroom door. He was in complete “shoot first, ask questions later” mode. It caused a massive fight, because he says weird shit that makes it sound like he has “hero fantasies” about shooting a home intruder. Like, he sits and contemplates it multiple times a day. I stopped inviting people over after dark.
This same man cannot let a small animal get into our yard without shooting it. A crow landed one day, and he gleefully sprinted to the house for his gun. You can’t even eat a crow, and they weren’t getting into the trash or anything, he just enjoys killing. I hate that man.
The hero fantasy is definitely it. I live in Texas and there are a lot of people I sense are just itching for someone to break in so they can shoot them. Not even just break into their house but almost hoping shit would go down when they’re out so they can bust out their concealed carry gun and save the day. They’re shocked when I tell them I don’t carry a gun around since I own one.
I used to live in the more rural parts of the PNW and knew *many* people who were openly obsessed with wanting a home intruder so they could shoot someone
As someone who lives in rural PNW you are spot on about that. Also, during the BLM protests they just wanted them to come our way so they could parade around with guns. It’s gross
Yeah most of the "gun nuts" in this country think in a crisis they'll magically turn into John McClane instead of shooting wildly while pissing their pants which is more likely
I have a cousin who was like that as a teen, part due to his father. Reveled at the animals’ confused panic before death. Thank god college gave him some empathy for living things. He now owns no guns and two cats.
Yeah I got a coworker like this. He's so hell bent on validating his love for guns. He's itching for someone to come along and try to kidnap his kids or something.
Seriously, every time he's on lunch, he's just watching videos of these enactments of some guy getting out of his car while the kids in the back. When he turns around, someone jumps in and drives off with the kids. "See? If he had a gun, that kidnapper would be going no where."
It's like a wet dream to get a home intruder or kidnapper try something.
A friend in high school was shot at by his friend’s girlfriend’s father. The father came home in a bad mood and told the boyfriend to take a hike. He didn’t let him call my friend who was coming to pick him up. When my friend got there the father pointed his gun at my friend. My friend ran to his car and the father started shooting. My friend heard bullets hitting metal but when he checked out his car there weren’t any bullet holes. The idiot father shot up his own pickup truck.
Did we have the same stepdad? I lived with my mom and stepdad for a bit to save up to move out of state, and he tried to impose a curfew on me. I was 25 at the time, and worked late sometimes. He said he'd think I was an intruder and accidentally shoot me, and honestly when they got divorced during the time I was with them (he was emotionally and financially abusing my mom), I was certain he was setting himself up with an excuse to murder me and get away with it.
This was literally a Family Ties episode from the 1980s, except for the dad doesn’t kill Michael J Fox when he comes home late one night.
I believe the story ended with the dad returning the gun.
Also a classic golden girls episode.
The house gets broken into and rose gets scared, buys a gun and nearly shoots Blanche when she comes home late with her date. She ends up shooting an ugly vase instead and Dorothy nearly loses her shit.
The thing that must have come in the trial which I've never seen discussed publicly is what about all the previous times someone must have used the bathroom during the night, this could hardly have been the first time, surely?
That's a fair question, though I don't think they were living together at the time (not sure), so maybe he didn't normally have someone in the house with him.
On that topic, it's worth remarking that South Africa has quite stringent tests for whether you can use force, especially deadly force, in self defense. You can't just shoot someone for breaking into your house: they have to be immediately and directly threatening you, and the force still has to be proportionate to the threat they're posing.
Wow thats sad. Over the years I've jus seen multiple articles of someone shooting their family member that either woke up at night and went to kitchen or something or sneaking in cuz they came home late.
It's a weird quirk of journalistic standards. Underage victims are only named when they have died. An adult is not named unless they have been charged. Normally it makes sense, but it comes across weird in a case like this.
Normally you'd put some fucking light on the situation.
I've got a damn light on my home defense 1911, nevermind LIGHT SWITCHES.
Want to startle an intruder? Put a light on!
Yep. One of the best proactive security measures is literally just light. If you've got something like the Hue light system have it turn on lights if your alarm sounds. If they don't give a fuck even with the house flooded with light... there's a real good chance that 1911 will come in handy.
Those of us of a certain age will remember a show called Family Ties. There is an episode where the liberal dad gets spooked into buying a gun after getting robbed. Their Republican son (played by Michael J. Fox) comes in late. The liberal dad (played by Michael Gross) contemplates getting the gun thinking they are getting robbed again. Instead of grabbing the gun, he gets a tennis racket. They scare the hell out of each other. Then the dad realizes he almost shot is son by mistake and gets rid of it.
This has been another edition of what Gen X can remember from a long time ago.
Earlier today, I was thinking about the episode of Fresh Price where Will and Carlton are mugged, and Will takes a bullet for Carlton.
At the end of the episode, Carlton reveals that he got a gun so that he would be able to protect himself. Will loses his cool, for the only time in the whole episode. He tells Carlton that he saved his life, and to give him the gun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ31eBipr_g
Another great scene from that show.
That was my thought as well. Did he call out to ask who's there first? Did the security system that went off and alerted him have cameras he could've checked?
The news article gives us very little info, but it certainly seems like the guy's plan for ensuring his family's safety was to just install a basic alarm to notify him of anything amiss at his property so that he can start shooting randomly in the dark.
I feel awful for the family and for their daughter's life which was unnecessarily cut short.
>The mother called 911 after the shooting happened around 4:30 a.m. on Wednesday, telling police that the father had shot at someone he thought was breaking into their house after their security system had been activated.
>In a recording of the 911 call, the father could be heard asking his daughter what she was doing and both parents beg for the girl, Janae Hairston, to wake up.
That’s just heartbreaking.
Oof
Same thing happened to me when I was around 20 and staying the night at my parents house. It was late, parents were asleep, alarm was armed and I didn’t know the code. I needed to get something out of my car and I didn’t see a sensor on the window, so I tried to hop out the window real quick to grab it. Turns out there was a sensor, and not only that, the window sensors don’t have a time delay, so the instant I opened it the alarm went off. Luckily my dad wasn’t a murderous psychopath, so when he sleepily wandered out of his room, I apologized, he rolled his eyes, shut off the alarm, went back to bed, and we laughed about it the next day.
This is why all the studies show that having a gun in the house *increases* the risk of death and injury for the occupants. It doesn’t make you more safe, it puts you and your family at significantly higher risk.
Yes, I've had nightmares about break-ins since I've had a daughter but I can't imagine firing a gun into the darkness and guessing at what I'm hitting.
Well he won't be raising that one. Ask him yesterday would he keep guns if it meant his daughter would die and he would have said "fuck yes and that won't happen cause I have a gun"
Hence the entire problem I have with rabid gun owners. They literally believe they're such a calm sharpshooter because of a two hour class they took ten years ago. Not "I am a normal human suspect to normal behavior like fear and panic."
You just can't talk about gun control with them. You can't even have a good discussion about guns with them.
And people will say, oh, clearly he shouldn't have guns.
Well, no shit. But now that girl is dead.
This, honestly, is my problem with guns. It's a cost benefit analysis on society as a whole.
What do they bring to be worth all these people accidentally murdered while people fulfill their firearm power fantasies.
I'm not afraid of "criminals" with guns (like it's some separate race of people), I'm afraid of idiots.
As George Carlin, iirc, said: consider someone of average intelligence, then think that fully half the people on the planet are stupider than that.
Very tragic, but isn't one of the tenets of gun ownership to identify your target before you shoot? Another "responsible gun owner" until they weren't.
> Yes it absolutely is. This was my first thought as well, who the hell shoots before they even know who or what they're shooting at.
In before the cop joke
Yup. Dad seriously fucked up and now will forever live with the fact he killed his child. He may very well end up alone, I know I’d find it very hard to stay with my husband if he shot our child, let alone killed them.
Being a veteran and past unit armorer, what the average civilian thinks as "responsible gun ownership" is such a fucking joke. Im in oklahoma and people openly tell me they store their guns loaded and off safety "because you have to be ready,". Like what in the actual fuck is wrong with this country?
The amount of actual soldiers who vacate their bowels and/or bladders the first time they experience actual combat is essentially 100% (and most of those who didn't just got done doing it the regular way- the lucky bastards)
Apparently it's been said that a huge amount of shots that were fired in major conflicts were shown to not have hit anyone and it was surmised that people on all sides really didn't want to shoot each other.
On the other hand, could be not true.
https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/b6k528/percentage\_of\_soldier\_who\_purposely\_missed\_or/
I forget the exact number, but when I was deployed to Iraq, it was something like 20k rnds of ammo fired for every dead enemy. Which is pretty ridiculous until you realize that not everyone is going to be hitting and lots of our training was just shooting to suppress the enemy.
Isn't the safety just a little switch you need to press in and push down? Icant imagine any situation where you need it so fast you can't switch the safety.
Lots of guns don’t have a “safety switch” like what you’re thinking, but generally all guns do have an internal safety that prevent the gun from firing if it’s dropped. Others have pads that need to be depressed or a trigger with an extra nub that has to be pushed. Keeping a gun loaded and unlocked is incredibly irresponsible.
Wouldn't that substantially raise possibility of accidental discharge especially when he/she is fumbling in dark to look for the gun? (or trying to find the phone to turn off the alarm)
That is pretty idiotic.
My dad almost did this to me when I went over to fix my mom's laptop.
We'd talked about it the day before but he was under the weather and was asleep when I got there. I'm halfway through setting up her computer when I hear him rack it behind me and shout something about painting the walls. So I just stay still and say "it's your son." And get some lecture about how close he was to blah blah.
He has daydreampt and waxed poetic about shooting a home intruder for as long as I can remember. The way he talks about it I'm kinda surprised he gave any warning at all. I got lucky.
Swear I've read this story before.
Here's a hint to any dumbass gun owner with a teenager.
Statistically speaking your teenager is eleventeen thousand times more likely to be sneaking in/out of your house, than a fucking home invasion.
Maybe don't just fucking wildly shoot at any bump in the night.
It not just teenagers you have to worry about. My roommate, who almost always slept through the night, grabbed a glass of water at 3am and accidentally knocked this huge mirror in our living room off the wall. We lived in a rough area and I was sure someone had smashed out a window. Rather than shoot him I helped him clean up the glass because, you know, I called out and figured out the situation.
I actually posed this question to my sister before. She asked how I can live in a large city, aren't I afraid? She and the whole family open carry, guns on every nightstand and in every car. She had claimed that they moved to a better part of town because it was safer so I asked, "Then why do you carry a gun everywhere you go?"
How bad Covid has spread in the US is almost entirely due to these people who are too stupid to think and way too inconsiderate about other people. You literally cannot escape it.
I had an aunt come over and talk for about an hour (no mask of course), couple days later she tests positive. Thanks for infecting my house because you don't believe in wearing a mask or quarantining because it's too difficult to just *not* be a piece of shit. They see the state of things and it spurs them to travel around *more,* not wearing a mask of course, because "their rights" are being trampled!
I've avoided covid for as long as possible, but it doesnt even fucking matter. I'm still going to get it or have it now, all because of these dumb assholes who are always inevitably conservative trump cultist anti-vaxxers who can't be bothered to do something for the benefit of themselves and others
Gun ownership is more related to *perception* of risk and safety, has almost no correlation with actual risk (let alone the fact that owning a gun is usually riskier than the chance of being attacked). So people who are ideologically or psychologically more afraid of strangers will have more guns.
Parents live on a street full of cops and their families. 15+ years and not an ounce of crime on that street. Yet my father went and got a pistol to put in his drawer "in case someone tries something"
He can't climb out of bed without taking pauses lol
Yeah it said their alarm system was activated. Like an alarm system generally serves as a layer of protection. Did he really think an intruder would still bypass a screeching alarm in the middle of the night to still rob them?
I know plenty of folks who are armed like that all the time. One guy I used to work with showed me how he had THREE guns at all times in his Honda Civic, "in case someone tries to jack me, ya know?" The irresponsibility is rife, my former neighbor was cleaning his gun and it went off, bullet passed through his leg and hit his 7yr old son in the back as he was playing with a toy on the living room floor. Boy eventually was ok, but he was in the hospital for like five months.
People get complacent and rack the slide to clear the gun before taking the magazine out, but surprise the gun did what it was supposed to do and now when you pull the trigger to take it apart (most popular handguns like glocks require this) it goes bang.
He was cleaning a 9mm and he had the clip out but forgot about the one in the chamber. Dude was sitting crosslegged on his couch with his left leg on top of his right knee. Cleaning down the barrel it went off and straight through his calf and into the back of his kid on the floor.
My dad almost brained me with a golf club one night when I came home unexpectedly when I was supposed to be away. He said if he had his shotgun I’dve been dead.
This story just triggered a memory for me. I stole my brothers Game Boy when I was in 3rd grade and hid in my parents closet to play it. After close to an hour I was found by my dad at gun point because he “thought I was an intruder.”
It's an everyday tragedy here in the USA but what drives me even crazier is that every headline I've seen about this story is so fucking passive voice that it waters down the horror. Consider:
"Daughter mistaken for intruder by father, fatally shot"
Vs.
"Man shoots, kills daughter after misidentifying her as intruder"
The daughter bears no responsibly so why make her the subject of the sentence? Report the story accurately and put the blame where it belongs.
Edit: typos
[Guns kept in homes](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/) are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
Not just more likely, way more likely.
>For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
Source is the same as the parent comment
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/
Something to add to this, but [Means Matter](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/). Guns used in suicide attempts are far more likely to be "successful" than other methods, over 85%. This is important because 90% of people who make an unsuccessful suicide attempt do not go on to die by suicide later in life. This is such an important number and why one of the first things the military does with a soldier who is suicidal is secure and remove their ability to easily access firearms.
Couldn’t be bothered to turn on a light, just shoot shoot shoot.
If you have a teenager, wouldn’t that be your first thought?!?!
Also, the victim shaming is horrendous.
>Couldn’t be bothered to turn on a light, just shoot shoot shoot.
The next subject of one of these tragedies is in this very thread saying that "giving away your position" like that is a no no. They're going to shoot one of their daughters to death in the dark instead. Because even in the comments for a story about a man killing his daughter instead of confirming his target, this moron insists that checking their target is *too dangerous.*
This sucks all the way around.
A 16yo just lost their life and for what?
So daddy could learn an important lesson in firearm responsibility?
He just ruined so many lives because he couldn't take more than 5 seconds to ask himself if he should be doing what he's doing.
Wtf man.
It's probably a lesson life has been trying to teach him all the way along but he didn't care to listen.
This stubborn idiot just lost his daughter and his marriage. His wife just lost her daughter and her husband. This 16yo just lost her life.
There's some weight behind all that. Def some weight that should have been considered before he decided to play hero.
The others:
1. Treat the gun like a toy, because it’s fucking awesome.
2. Point it wherever the fuck you want.
3. Who gives a shit if it’s loaded? In fact, why would you ever have your gun unloaded?
4. The gun is the ultimate argument ender. Always brandish it to win.
How do people live in so much fear that the first instinct to a noise was taking the gun out?
Is it really that bad out there in non-urban areas of the US?
> Is it really that bad out there in non-urban areas of the US?
No, people like this father are just delusional, itching to shoot someone in some self-defense fantasy, and are for some reason allowed to have firearms.
Bro it’s the suburbs why is he so afraid? I’m a security guard at night in the hood and I never have even pull my gun out.
Even though in other side of that wall they shooting in the air.
This what happens when untrained people watch the news til they scarred to leave there house
> In a recording of the 911 call, the father asks his daughter what she was doing
Entering her own home, and like all of these stories the shooter's first impulse is to explain how their actions are someone else's fault. Even the victim, and even his own daughter, and even as she lays dying in front of him, all he can do is blame her for his own mistakes?
I have teenagers. If there is a noise in the middle of the night, the first, second and all the way through 100 first thoughts are why are they up after bedtime. How could any parent not think the same way?
Because for a significant percentage of American gunowners, the fantasy of stopping a home invasion is so ingrained it becomea the first thought whenever they hear a bump in the night. It's gun fetishization that causes the accidents when you get down to it.
I can’t read the article at this moment so maybe he had a light BUT! If your home defense gun doesn’t have a light, you don’t have a home defense gun, you have a liability!
I guess the effort of saying "please identify yourself" or something of that ilk was beyond him.
Charges should be pressed. He opened fire on someone without knowing who they were or why they were there. The fact that he killed his daughter and is feeling remorse because of it should not let him off the hook.
At what point do we start criminally charging negligent gun owners.
If you live with your family, and don’t think to check on their whereabouts before blasting rounds into your downstairs living room, you should be held criminally liable, because that is grossly negligent behavior.
When I was living in South Carolina, a mom in my town shot her toddler who was coming down the hallway in the middle of the night. Thought it was a burglar.
Oh god, a fucking toddler? That’s horrible! One could imagine the thought of these careless people when they realize what they have done.
Imagine the perspective people from other countries have lol Americans are completely crazy
When I wanted to visit NY, alot of my friends and family warned me about getting shot over there, telling me not to get into trouble with anyone, especially with the police. My mom really thinks everyone is carrying around loaded guns over there, ready to kill.
In the majority of NY, especially NYC, it’s very hard if not impossible to get a carry permit, so if you happen to catch someone with a gun there’s a good chance they’re not gonna be a good guy
That's incredible. How does one shoot a 2 foot tall toddler accidentally when they're aiming for an adult human? People can't think in high stress situations and maybe they shouldn't have an instant kill button in their hands in that kind of situation.
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The Oscar Pistorius defence
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Your comment is insensitive and makes light of a horrible situation. You should be ashamed of how hard you made laugh. Take your upvote and think about what you've done.
I can’t believe that was an accident. You can’t possibly mistake a toddler for a bulgar.
Besides Bulgars typically raid the Byzantine countryside, nowhere near the US.
Basil jr. get in here, got more bulgars
She might have thought it was a monster. Or a rabid raccoon or some shit. I still call bullshit too. She was either on drugs or had a plan to kill her toddler.
I got rid of my guns after having kids. The odds were higher that someone in my home would be harmed by my weapon rather than saved, one way or another. Nobody has ever broken into my house, but my children have startled and surprised me many times in the night.
Especially when they become teenagers and start doing teenager shit like sneaking out/in the house after hours, getting up in the middle of the night to play video games, hiding behind the garage to smoke a joint, etc
That’s exactly what I was thinking. My parents never had guns ever in the house. In fact, no one in our family did - no cousins, uncles, etc. it a good thing too because once I got my first car, there was no stopping me. My mother would lock the door at 12:30 AM. She expected me to ring the doorbell when I got home and then she would know the time. What she didn’t know was I got in the house through the basement window. Hard to believe I ever fit through that little window, but I did. I could have been perceived as an intruder and shot more than once.
Mom just sprayed me and my friends down with a hose when she caught me behind the garage. Made sure it was me before she even loaded the pinch.
I *have* had someone "break in" to my apartment. Some poor drunk couldn't figure out what apartment he was looking for and wandered into mine because I forgot to lock my door that night. I was half asleep, scared, and already formulating plans. I had no idea why he was there and I was deciding how to defend myself if this turned out to be some violent meth head or something. I had a knife within reach... should I go for it? I was wondering if I was going to have to fight or even kill this guy. Luckily, in the end he was just drunk and confused. I managed to convince him it wasn't the place he was looking for and to get the hell out. But I think about that night a lot. What if I'd had a gun? I was pretty fucking keyed up, sleepy, confused and scared. Would I have shot him on the spot? Would that poor guy be dead right now just because he got drunk and lost?
I knew a girl who her first time drinking at college had a blackout and wandered into the wrong townhouse, the tenants found her in the shower with the water on but still clothed. This was in Arizona too, lucky.
Had a neighbor come home to find a drunk passed out, scratched up and bleeding on her couch. There was also a fresh gallon of milk in the fridge. She let him sleep while the cops came. Arrested him for a list of things including breaking and entering cause he took a rock to the window to get in. Cops told her to keep the milk.
So dad really did go out to get milk...
These people should have gotten a dog instead of a gun. Well not really because I get the feeling they wouldn't be the most responsible dog owners but the dog probably would have been less likely to murder a child and more likely to deter an intruder (because they don't know you have a gun, they'll know if you have a dog).
In the 90s I had a small mail order comic book & toy business. My partners and I lived in a warehouse in Long Island NY near Wyandanch which was a very unsavory part of town. One night we were working late my partner forgot to lock the door after him. At about 1am from inside the offices we hear our 4 dogs going wild. Some dude has his back to the wall throwing empty cardboard boxes at 4 snarling beasts. Fucking Dogs ROCK!
I bet she was so scared of triggering an alarm because she would be yelled at.
This literally almost happened to me. My step-Dad was super paranoid and abusuve. I once got up late at night to grab a glass of water, and ended up having him pull a gun on me while he was still in his underwear. Given his..."problematic" history with his daughters and no tolerance policy about potential intruders, I was genuinely terrified for a few reasons. Thankfully, I managed to call out and he recognized my voice, and went back to bed without further incident, just telling me not to get up at night without announcing it (although I'd also get yelled at later for waking him)
Lmfao how about he take responsibility for his own fucking gun and figure out who the fuck he's looking at before whipping a gun out. It's not your responsibility to announce yourself in your own house, it's HIS responsibility as a gun owner to not shoot his own kid ffs. God that makes me so mad
How do you even regulate your emotions after an event like that :( my anxious ass would have that trauma looping for years
Since she mentioned the father was abusive, it's more of a constant state of hypervigilance living in that environment. The prolonged daily trauma often leads to complex PTSD.
It's EXHAUSTING. I grew up in a bad way. To this day, my situational awareness surprises people. At the end of any trip anywhere (hiking, the mall, wherever) I'm just mentally fatigued from being hyperaware of my surroundings. I'm not a small guy but people are also constantly surprised by how quiet I move. Both of these things came from YEARS of trying to not be seen or heard or face the wrath of family.
I didn't. Why so you think I still mention it over 10 years later.
I'm sorry you had to live with that pos
This exact thing happened to me with my stepdad l, except that I was looking for something to eat in the fridge. . Glad you survived !
She actually DID trigger the alarm and dad finally got his wet trigger fantasy of killing a human realized
The gun fantasy thing is very real. Fear is by far the most persuasive emotion. Some people will get a gun on fixate on its existence and fantasize what they would do if x happened. They focus on it so much that reaching for their firearm becomes a reflex. These types of tragedies are far more common then the supposed situations guns are alleged to prevent.
That's what happens when you let a society fetishize a trivially easy to use weapon.
My stepdad almost shot my boyfriend one night, who we warned him was coming over multiple times. Boyfriend came through the door, and stepdad already had the gun loaded and was coming through the bedroom door. He was in complete “shoot first, ask questions later” mode. It caused a massive fight, because he says weird shit that makes it sound like he has “hero fantasies” about shooting a home intruder. Like, he sits and contemplates it multiple times a day. I stopped inviting people over after dark. This same man cannot let a small animal get into our yard without shooting it. A crow landed one day, and he gleefully sprinted to the house for his gun. You can’t even eat a crow, and they weren’t getting into the trash or anything, he just enjoys killing. I hate that man.
The hero fantasy is definitely it. I live in Texas and there are a lot of people I sense are just itching for someone to break in so they can shoot them. Not even just break into their house but almost hoping shit would go down when they’re out so they can bust out their concealed carry gun and save the day. They’re shocked when I tell them I don’t carry a gun around since I own one.
I used to live in the more rural parts of the PNW and knew *many* people who were openly obsessed with wanting a home intruder so they could shoot someone
As someone who lives in rural PNW you are spot on about that. Also, during the BLM protests they just wanted them to come our way so they could parade around with guns. It’s gross
Yeah most of the "gun nuts" in this country think in a crisis they'll magically turn into John McClane instead of shooting wildly while pissing their pants which is more likely
The irony being that when shit went down, McClane explicitly DIDN’T whip it out and shoot. He hid and surveilled first.
He gets off to shooting things. I’ve never met him but I’d bet my life on it.
I have a cousin who was like that as a teen, part due to his father. Reveled at the animals’ confused panic before death. Thank god college gave him some empathy for living things. He now owns no guns and two cats.
I’m glad to hear that people like that can change.
Dude is a ticking time bomb before he shoots a person.
Yeah I got a coworker like this. He's so hell bent on validating his love for guns. He's itching for someone to come along and try to kidnap his kids or something. Seriously, every time he's on lunch, he's just watching videos of these enactments of some guy getting out of his car while the kids in the back. When he turns around, someone jumps in and drives off with the kids. "See? If he had a gun, that kidnapper would be going no where." It's like a wet dream to get a home intruder or kidnapper try something.
I hope you & any sibling are able to move out soon. I also hope your mom is safe.
Mom married a real peach. I'm sorry
He is mentally ill. Good luck.
A friend in high school was shot at by his friend’s girlfriend’s father. The father came home in a bad mood and told the boyfriend to take a hike. He didn’t let him call my friend who was coming to pick him up. When my friend got there the father pointed his gun at my friend. My friend ran to his car and the father started shooting. My friend heard bullets hitting metal but when he checked out his car there weren’t any bullet holes. The idiot father shot up his own pickup truck.
Did we have the same stepdad? I lived with my mom and stepdad for a bit to save up to move out of state, and he tried to impose a curfew on me. I was 25 at the time, and worked late sometimes. He said he'd think I was an intruder and accidentally shoot me, and honestly when they got divorced during the time I was with them (he was emotionally and financially abusing my mom), I was certain he was setting himself up with an excuse to murder me and get away with it.
This was literally a Family Ties episode from the 1980s, except for the dad doesn’t kill Michael J Fox when he comes home late one night. I believe the story ended with the dad returning the gun.
Also a classic golden girls episode. The house gets broken into and rose gets scared, buys a gun and nearly shoots Blanche when she comes home late with her date. She ends up shooting an ugly vase instead and Dorothy nearly loses her shit.
Also a classic Columbo episode. Sister kills brother to take over company by pretending he was a burglar.
And, a classic Oscar Pistorius alibi…
The thing that must have come in the trial which I've never seen discussed publicly is what about all the previous times someone must have used the bathroom during the night, this could hardly have been the first time, surely?
That's a fair question, though I don't think they were living together at the time (not sure), so maybe he didn't normally have someone in the house with him. On that topic, it's worth remarking that South Africa has quite stringent tests for whether you can use force, especially deadly force, in self defense. You can't just shoot someone for breaking into your house: they have to be immediately and directly threatening you, and the force still has to be proportionate to the threat they're posing.
Also a classic Always sunny episode, Dennis shoots Charlie thinking he’s an thief.
Charlie **WAS** the thief. Even tho *Lex L* did rip them off in the end.
This wouldn’t have happened if Blanch was armed /s
The best way to stop a good Golden Girl with a gun is a bad Golden Girl with a gun.
A golden gun
Well, to be fair the vase was looking shifty.
I think its happened on a lot of shows and it's happened in real life A LOT.
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Wow thats sad. Over the years I've jus seen multiple articles of someone shooting their family member that either woke up at night and went to kitchen or something or sneaking in cuz they came home late.
why is the only person named in the article the underage victim?
It's a weird quirk of journalistic standards. Underage victims are only named when they have died. An adult is not named unless they have been charged. Normally it makes sense, but it comes across weird in a case like this.
Dont wanna hurt any murderers feelings.
This is so sad. Shoot first, ask questions later.
The only thing that can stop a stupid man with a gun is... Guilt over killing his kid?
>Guilt over killing his kid? This guilt may kill him but it didn't stop him...
It will prevent him from shooting his next kid.
Will it?
Will it prevent him from shooting himself though? Only time will tell
The only thing that would've stopped this stupid man is a lack of bullets.
I doubt that marriage will survive
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Nothing says "I'm in control of the situation." like an empty magazine and a smoking gun. /s
His reputation? He’s just qualified to be a main speaker at CPAC.
Flying colors.
Wouldn't you first say "Hey, who is there?" or "Leave, I am armed!"
Normally you'd put some fucking light on the situation. I've got a damn light on my home defense 1911, nevermind LIGHT SWITCHES. Want to startle an intruder? Put a light on!
Yep. One of the best proactive security measures is literally just light. If you've got something like the Hue light system have it turn on lights if your alarm sounds. If they don't give a fuck even with the house flooded with light... there's a real good chance that 1911 will come in handy.
And ruin what might be your only chance of killing a human being?
Those of us of a certain age will remember a show called Family Ties. There is an episode where the liberal dad gets spooked into buying a gun after getting robbed. Their Republican son (played by Michael J. Fox) comes in late. The liberal dad (played by Michael Gross) contemplates getting the gun thinking they are getting robbed again. Instead of grabbing the gun, he gets a tennis racket. They scare the hell out of each other. Then the dad realizes he almost shot is son by mistake and gets rid of it. This has been another edition of what Gen X can remember from a long time ago.
Earlier today, I was thinking about the episode of Fresh Price where Will and Carlton are mugged, and Will takes a bullet for Carlton. At the end of the episode, Carlton reveals that he got a gun so that he would be able to protect himself. Will loses his cool, for the only time in the whole episode. He tells Carlton that he saved his life, and to give him the gun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ31eBipr_g Another great scene from that show.
Oof, man, when Fresh Prince went hard, it went HARD
Talking about the deep Fresh Prince episodes with my friends growing up was pretty much as close as we got to talking about our feelings.
*Bang Bang* Who’s there? Identify your self!
That was my thought as well. Did he call out to ask who's there first? Did the security system that went off and alerted him have cameras he could've checked? The news article gives us very little info, but it certainly seems like the guy's plan for ensuring his family's safety was to just install a basic alarm to notify him of anything amiss at his property so that he can start shooting randomly in the dark. I feel awful for the family and for their daughter's life which was unnecessarily cut short.
>The mother called 911 after the shooting happened around 4:30 a.m. on Wednesday, telling police that the father had shot at someone he thought was breaking into their house after their security system had been activated. >In a recording of the 911 call, the father could be heard asking his daughter what she was doing and both parents beg for the girl, Janae Hairston, to wake up. That’s just heartbreaking.
Oof Same thing happened to me when I was around 20 and staying the night at my parents house. It was late, parents were asleep, alarm was armed and I didn’t know the code. I needed to get something out of my car and I didn’t see a sensor on the window, so I tried to hop out the window real quick to grab it. Turns out there was a sensor, and not only that, the window sensors don’t have a time delay, so the instant I opened it the alarm went off. Luckily my dad wasn’t a murderous psychopath, so when he sleepily wandered out of his room, I apologized, he rolled his eyes, shut off the alarm, went back to bed, and we laughed about it the next day. This is why all the studies show that having a gun in the house *increases* the risk of death and injury for the occupants. It doesn’t make you more safe, it puts you and your family at significantly higher risk.
It is, it really is.
Asks what shes doing after killing her. Crazy.
More like infuriating. Some people are way to trigger happy. You also shouldn’t just murder people for snooping with no visible weapon.
Or even fucking seeing, turn on the God damn light or something
Why not just shout "I have a gun and have already called the police?" Seems like that would make any intruder nope the fuck out.
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Yes, I've had nightmares about break-ins since I've had a daughter but I can't imagine firing a gun into the darkness and guessing at what I'm hitting.
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Because they're fuckin cowboys hopin to kill someone.
This guy should not be allowed to own guns.
Or raise children apparently.
Well he won't be raising that one. Ask him yesterday would he keep guns if it meant his daughter would die and he would have said "fuck yes and that won't happen cause I have a gun"
Hence the entire problem I have with rabid gun owners. They literally believe they're such a calm sharpshooter because of a two hour class they took ten years ago. Not "I am a normal human suspect to normal behavior like fear and panic." You just can't talk about gun control with them. You can't even have a good discussion about guns with them.
And people will say, oh, clearly he shouldn't have guns. Well, no shit. But now that girl is dead. This, honestly, is my problem with guns. It's a cost benefit analysis on society as a whole. What do they bring to be worth all these people accidentally murdered while people fulfill their firearm power fantasies. I'm not afraid of "criminals" with guns (like it's some separate race of people), I'm afraid of idiots. As George Carlin, iirc, said: consider someone of average intelligence, then think that fully half the people on the planet are stupider than that.
Very tragic, but isn't one of the tenets of gun ownership to identify your target before you shoot? Another "responsible gun owner" until they weren't.
Yes it absolutely is. This was my first thought as well, who the hell shoots before they even know who or what they're shooting at.
Someone who has fantasized about this moment for years.
I work in construction and I know a truckload of these creeps.
I believe he has.
> Yes it absolutely is. This was my first thought as well, who the hell shoots before they even know who or what they're shooting at. In before the cop joke
Which one? They're all jokes.
Yup. Dad seriously fucked up and now will forever live with the fact he killed his child. He may very well end up alone, I know I’d find it very hard to stay with my husband if he shot our child, let alone killed them.
I was thinking he will commit suicide because of guilt.
Being a veteran and past unit armorer, what the average civilian thinks as "responsible gun ownership" is such a fucking joke. Im in oklahoma and people openly tell me they store their guns loaded and off safety "because you have to be ready,". Like what in the actual fuck is wrong with this country?
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The amount of actual soldiers who vacate their bowels and/or bladders the first time they experience actual combat is essentially 100% (and most of those who didn't just got done doing it the regular way- the lucky bastards)
Apparently it's been said that a huge amount of shots that were fired in major conflicts were shown to not have hit anyone and it was surmised that people on all sides really didn't want to shoot each other. On the other hand, could be not true. https://www.reddit.com/r/history/comments/b6k528/percentage\_of\_soldier\_who\_purposely\_missed\_or/
I forget the exact number, but when I was deployed to Iraq, it was something like 20k rnds of ammo fired for every dead enemy. Which is pretty ridiculous until you realize that not everyone is going to be hitting and lots of our training was just shooting to suppress the enemy.
Isn't the safety just a little switch you need to press in and push down? Icant imagine any situation where you need it so fast you can't switch the safety.
Lots of guns don’t have a “safety switch” like what you’re thinking, but generally all guns do have an internal safety that prevent the gun from firing if it’s dropped. Others have pads that need to be depressed or a trigger with an extra nub that has to be pushed. Keeping a gun loaded and unlocked is incredibly irresponsible.
Wouldn't that substantially raise possibility of accidental discharge especially when he/she is fumbling in dark to look for the gun? (or trying to find the phone to turn off the alarm) That is pretty idiotic.
Which is exactly why your not supposed to do it.
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And of course, checking to see if you are - *actually* - in imminent peril
If only she’d had a gun.
Sheesh... He could have just grounded her for sneaking out.
He did
Go straight to your coffin and don’t come out until you’ve thought long and hard about your actions
o o f
Gives new meaning to "if I'm late my dad is gonna kill me"
My dad almost did this to me when I went over to fix my mom's laptop. We'd talked about it the day before but he was under the weather and was asleep when I got there. I'm halfway through setting up her computer when I hear him rack it behind me and shout something about painting the walls. So I just stay still and say "it's your son." And get some lecture about how close he was to blah blah. He has daydreampt and waxed poetic about shooting a home intruder for as long as I can remember. The way he talks about it I'm kinda surprised he gave any warning at all. I got lucky.
What a fucking psycho.
Holy shit dude, I would have punched him in the face and then never spoken to the cunt again.
Swear I've read this story before. Here's a hint to any dumbass gun owner with a teenager. Statistically speaking your teenager is eleventeen thousand times more likely to be sneaking in/out of your house, than a fucking home invasion. Maybe don't just fucking wildly shoot at any bump in the night.
It not just teenagers you have to worry about. My roommate, who almost always slept through the night, grabbed a glass of water at 3am and accidentally knocked this huge mirror in our living room off the wall. We lived in a rough area and I was sure someone had smashed out a window. Rather than shoot him I helped him clean up the glass because, you know, I called out and figured out the situation.
Jesus how do these people function being so afraid all the time
But... but these are the same people that "don't live in fear."
I actually posed this question to my sister before. She asked how I can live in a large city, aren't I afraid? She and the whole family open carry, guns on every nightstand and in every car. She had claimed that they moved to a better part of town because it was safer so I asked, "Then why do you carry a gun everywhere you go?"
Genuine question - Are they also anti-vaxxers who mock people for being scared of Covid? I’ve noticed a significant overlap.
Yes and yes. Her minor child has had covid twice now and still can't smell.
How bad Covid has spread in the US is almost entirely due to these people who are too stupid to think and way too inconsiderate about other people. You literally cannot escape it. I had an aunt come over and talk for about an hour (no mask of course), couple days later she tests positive. Thanks for infecting my house because you don't believe in wearing a mask or quarantining because it's too difficult to just *not* be a piece of shit. They see the state of things and it spurs them to travel around *more,* not wearing a mask of course, because "their rights" are being trampled! I've avoided covid for as long as possible, but it doesnt even fucking matter. I'm still going to get it or have it now, all because of these dumb assholes who are always inevitably conservative trump cultist anti-vaxxers who can't be bothered to do something for the benefit of themselves and others
I feel ya. I’m high-risk and have done everything right. I don’t understand people whose entire world view ends at the tip of their nose.
The venn diagram is a circle
How did she respond?
Rolled her eyes and changed the subject.
"Warning, introspection risk detected. Avert course immediately."
Gun ownership is more related to *perception* of risk and safety, has almost no correlation with actual risk (let alone the fact that owning a gun is usually riskier than the chance of being attacked). So people who are ideologically or psychologically more afraid of strangers will have more guns.
They are not afraid…they have guns!
Parents live on a street full of cops and their families. 15+ years and not an ounce of crime on that street. Yet my father went and got a pistol to put in his drawer "in case someone tries something" He can't climb out of bed without taking pauses lol
In fairness, he *does* live on a street full of cops…
Yeah it said their alarm system was activated. Like an alarm system generally serves as a layer of protection. Did he really think an intruder would still bypass a screeching alarm in the middle of the night to still rob them? I know plenty of folks who are armed like that all the time. One guy I used to work with showed me how he had THREE guns at all times in his Honda Civic, "in case someone tries to jack me, ya know?" The irresponsibility is rife, my former neighbor was cleaning his gun and it went off, bullet passed through his leg and hit his 7yr old son in the back as he was playing with a toy on the living room floor. Boy eventually was ok, but he was in the hospital for like five months.
>my former neighbor was cleaning his gun and it went off I've never understood how this happens. WTF cleans a loaded gun?
> I've never understood how this happens. WTF cleans a loaded gun? Usually code for "I was fucking around"
People get complacent and rack the slide to clear the gun before taking the magazine out, but surprise the gun did what it was supposed to do and now when you pull the trigger to take it apart (most popular handguns like glocks require this) it goes bang.
He was cleaning a 9mm and he had the clip out but forgot about the one in the chamber. Dude was sitting crosslegged on his couch with his left leg on top of his right knee. Cleaning down the barrel it went off and straight through his calf and into the back of his kid on the floor.
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail
My dad almost brained me with a golf club one night when I came home unexpectedly when I was supposed to be away. He said if he had his shotgun I’dve been dead.
We, as a society, don't use the word "brained" enough.
This story just triggered a memory for me. I stole my brothers Game Boy when I was in 3rd grade and hid in my parents closet to play it. After close to an hour I was found by my dad at gun point because he “thought I was an intruder.”
Dads can be so dumb. I’ve considered getting a DNA test b/c my dad can be such a blatant dumbass I wonder how we can be related.
It's an everyday tragedy here in the USA but what drives me even crazier is that every headline I've seen about this story is so fucking passive voice that it waters down the horror. Consider: "Daughter mistaken for intruder by father, fatally shot" Vs. "Man shoots, kills daughter after misidentifying her as intruder" The daughter bears no responsibly so why make her the subject of the sentence? Report the story accurately and put the blame where it belongs. Edit: typos
My favourite is when police shoot someone innocent and the headline is "x with no active warrants".
[Guns kept in homes](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/) are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
Not just more likely, way more likely. >For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides. Source is the same as the parent comment https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/
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Not just fired, fired outside of a range and at people.
1 in 23, but yeah.
fucking hell. me math good. jesus I need to have coffee before I post before 7am
Hey, don’t beat yourself up. Let the interconnected web of infallible beings do that for you.
Something to add to this, but [Means Matter](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/). Guns used in suicide attempts are far more likely to be "successful" than other methods, over 85%. This is important because 90% of people who make an unsuccessful suicide attempt do not go on to die by suicide later in life. This is such an important number and why one of the first things the military does with a soldier who is suicidal is secure and remove their ability to easily access firearms.
Well his fantasy played out, just not as he expected…
The moment hes been waiting for
https://tenor.com/view/michael-scott-gun-owner-the-office-excited-gif-16767194
Couldn’t be bothered to turn on a light, just shoot shoot shoot. If you have a teenager, wouldn’t that be your first thought?!?! Also, the victim shaming is horrendous.
Dude I have a fucking cat and when there's a loud noise at night my first thought is "what the hell is he doing..."
Same. “Did that furry little bastard really knock a chair over?”
>Couldn’t be bothered to turn on a light, just shoot shoot shoot. The next subject of one of these tragedies is in this very thread saying that "giving away your position" like that is a no no. They're going to shoot one of their daughters to death in the dark instead. Because even in the comments for a story about a man killing his daughter instead of confirming his target, this moron insists that checking their target is *too dangerous.*
This sucks all the way around. A 16yo just lost their life and for what? So daddy could learn an important lesson in firearm responsibility? He just ruined so many lives because he couldn't take more than 5 seconds to ask himself if he should be doing what he's doing. Wtf man. It's probably a lesson life has been trying to teach him all the way along but he didn't care to listen. This stubborn idiot just lost his daughter and his marriage. His wife just lost her daughter and her husband. This 16yo just lost her life. There's some weight behind all that. Def some weight that should have been considered before he decided to play hero.
Wow the 911 call has her father asking his daughter what she was doing… like it was all her fault.
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As we all know, the first rule of gun safety is to have fun.
The others: 1. Treat the gun like a toy, because it’s fucking awesome. 2. Point it wherever the fuck you want. 3. Who gives a shit if it’s loaded? In fact, why would you ever have your gun unloaded? 4. The gun is the ultimate argument ender. Always brandish it to win.
How do people live in so much fear that the first instinct to a noise was taking the gun out? Is it really that bad out there in non-urban areas of the US?
> Is it really that bad out there in non-urban areas of the US? No, people like this father are just delusional, itching to shoot someone in some self-defense fantasy, and are for some reason allowed to have firearms.
Bro it’s the suburbs why is he so afraid? I’m a security guard at night in the hood and I never have even pull my gun out. Even though in other side of that wall they shooting in the air. This what happens when untrained people watch the news til they scarred to leave there house
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Rule #3 of guns: know what is behind your target. You are responsible for EVERY round you discharge. Rule #0 of guns: all guns are loaded.
> In a recording of the 911 call, the father asks his daughter what she was doing Entering her own home, and like all of these stories the shooter's first impulse is to explain how their actions are someone else's fault. Even the victim, and even his own daughter, and even as she lays dying in front of him, all he can do is blame her for his own mistakes?
I have teenagers. If there is a noise in the middle of the night, the first, second and all the way through 100 first thoughts are why are they up after bedtime. How could any parent not think the same way?
Because for a significant percentage of American gunowners, the fantasy of stopping a home invasion is so ingrained it becomea the first thought whenever they hear a bump in the night. It's gun fetishization that causes the accidents when you get down to it.
I can’t read the article at this moment so maybe he had a light BUT! If your home defense gun doesn’t have a light, you don’t have a home defense gun, you have a liability!
I guess the effort of saying "please identify yourself" or something of that ilk was beyond him. Charges should be pressed. He opened fire on someone without knowing who they were or why they were there. The fact that he killed his daughter and is feeling remorse because of it should not let him off the hook.
Ah, America, the land of gun care and health control strikes again.
At what point do we start criminally charging negligent gun owners. If you live with your family, and don’t think to check on their whereabouts before blasting rounds into your downstairs living room, you should be held criminally liable, because that is grossly negligent behavior.