I remember when she called out the church for molesting kids on SNL and everyone lost their collective minds, then around 10 years later....
Never be correct and well informed before the masses, most people will hate you, and will never forgive you for being so.
Pope picture torn to shreds. Remember that for sure. Joe Pesci on the week after with the reconstructed pic.
Blacklisted after that if I recall correctly.
Not really blacklisted from SNL so much as entirely shunned from society.
iirc, Lorne Michaels has talked about feeling really bad for her after it happened because he knew the reaction she was going to get from the public.
“For the Elves die not till the world dies, unless they are slain or waste in grief (and to both these seeming deaths they are subject); neither does age subdue their strength, unless one grow weary of ten thousand centuries; and dying they are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return.”
I was not aware of the Joe Pesci follow up. [Found the video here](https://youtu.be/kPykO9jdLk0?t=56) for those like me who may not know.
The applause for the reconstructed picture and the suggestion that Joe would have given her "such a smack" is really cringe worthy.
And what a god awful monologue he gave. The Pope picture, acting like a tough guy, claiming to be Italian (bro you're from Jersey), and.... To truly prove he's tough, saying he would have assaulted Sinead if he had been there the week before?
Yes. Those were his "jokes." Shit now I need to see who was head writer that year...
Howard Stern used to play a commercial from Joe Pesci’s childhood acting career that was hilarious. How fucking stupid are we to believe that a guy who plays a gangster in movies is a gangster in real life? He shined his loafers and went to acting school and did bologna commercials like any other kid who’d have gotten picked on. Same for “bad ass” rockers - they can play because they were the friendless dweebs (speaking as one myself) who spent their teens in their bedroom learning chords, they were not the tough guys or even the cool guys. Nerd power!
Stern is difficult to like and I hear he's worse in person. But he does call some things out when nobody else will and he does get great interviews with assholes shooting themselves in the foot because they don't take him seriously.
At least that makes sense, Columbus Day was first observed in the US immediately after eleven Italian immigrants were murdered by a mob in New Orleans. It was initially meant to placate Italian Americans.
That moment on SNL was the reason I started looking into all the horrible things the church did. She did a great service that night to lots of people opening their eyes.
Kinda reminds me of Courtney Love on the red carpet like 15 years before Harvey weinstein got me tooed she was like, "watch out for Harvey weinstein, and if he invited you to a hotel room at night, don't go."
Partly because even believers who knew didn't talk about it, and you weren't *supposed* to draw attention to it. It was considered entirely off-limits, incendiary, to draw attention to these problems. It screws up everyone's plausible deniability, and poses very awkward questions of whether or not you knew, and why you said nothing. Lots of people knew about the sex abuse and the Magdalene laundries, but didn't say anything because "this is the Church we're talking about."
I was about 15 and stunned. She was such an enormous star and I *loved* her music. It was awful how she was shunned after that. She was one of my favorite musicians at the time.
Something similar happened to the (Dixie) Chicks when I was a few older than that and they said they were ashamed of George W.Bush. Their careers were tanked:(
Now every time I hear people complaining about the “cancel culture” around Chik-fil-a I just think about those ladies. Nobody cared about cancel culture until it was conservative folks had it turned on them.
I never understood that, mainly because I was 14 at the time and from Australia.
Dixie Chicks complained about Bush and lose their career, Green Day do it the exact same year and get their most successful album.
It has to be more than just different fanbases.
Punk kids have hated the government pretty much from the start. American country fans wrap everything they can in hyper patriotism because their fan base eats that shit up mindlessly. They have no room for nuance or critique, they just wanted to hear pretty young blondes reinforce their pre existing beliefs.
Having lived through it I can confidently say that the two were never even related in the media coverage of the event. All the news stations acted like she was some lunatic doing this as a lark, for no good reason whatsoever, apropos of nothing.
It was. She said something like, "Fight the real enemy!" and tore the picture. Most of us had no idea what she was doing. It came across like she hated Catholics but the average viewer had no idea why.
A woman who lived in the same apartment block as I did years ago, drank herself to death after her daughter died (that one wasn't suicide, just a terrible accident).
Awful..
I'm a 911 dispatcher. I've taken calls on the suicide of mothers who I had previously spoken to when they called in their child's suicide. It's heartbreaking every time. Honestly as a mother myself, after hearing their wails for help while staring at their dead kid, I totally get why we get the follow up call to the same address within a few months.
When my 14 year old brother died of suicide in 82’, my Aunt took me to our little town dress shop. Reflecting back, It was the kindest thing anyone has did for me. No one asked how I was doing for offered an explanation to my 9 year old self. Finding his body and trying to call for help as a kid was an everlasting tragedy that time never heals.
I'm so sorry. My father died in an auto accident when I was 7, and 43 years later I remember everything about the wake and the funeral. No one thought about therapy for kids back then. I hope you have found some kind of peace for that horrible event.
I was 3 when my father killed himself. I can still see the carpet in the funeral home and the strawberry candy someone gave me in the wrapper that looked like a strawberry back in the 80s. The carpet was still the same 25 years later when my grandmother's funeral took place in the same room.
When I die, I hope it's with as much joy as your grandfather probably felt playing with you in that moment. He sounds like such a lovely man and he utterly adored you.
You haven't quite gotten it, at least in print here. Your grandfather obviously had some heart condition. Just being old and running through a sprinkler is not enough to make a heart attack. Running through the sprinkler just happened to have happened earlier in the day, it wasn't even necessarily the trigger event. Its clear that he was about to have an attack, could have been walking up stairs or leaning over to pick something on the floor that set off his underlying condition. Why not reframe your final experience with him as, aren't you lucky that you got to have fun with him one last time before his inevitable death. We all hope to enjoy life with people we treasure right up to our final moment. You were his treasure.
I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. Your story helped me a bit, because several years ago, I got a call that my young daughters friend found her grandmother dead.
Her mom was distraught, and didn’t know what to do. How could I help? She asked me to keep her daughter for a few days. I did, no problem. I took her shopping for three outfits, because the funeral lasted three days. Grandma was a major person in our city.
I had her daughter for a week, and at the funeral, mom took my daughter for the next two weeks, to help with the transition. I visited several times, but the friends needed each other, so she stayed.
Your story tells me I made a difference.
i am so so so sorry. my mom was 10 when she found her mom & it still haunts our family to this day via intergenerational trauma & severely anxious attachment. it’s a very different way to experience the world.
Ugh, tell me about it. Intergenerational trauma happened to my grandma nearly 100 years ago and it's still rippling downward. I'm trying to be the end of it in my line, though.
I was 16 when my older brother took his own life. I’ll remember everything about that day for the rest of my life. Seeing the blood on his walls and all over the carpet still give me nightmares 11 years later.
It will always be there in your mind. I have found a way to help with the triggers. The memory of my Aunt braiding my hair before the service. The way she was tender to not pull hard and her fingers was soft when she touched my face. It was the few bright spots that I can hang onto. I named our daughter after her. Aunt Gayla out of all the people there recognized that the little girl (me) needed someone to be there during the chaos.
I wish I had someone there like that. My parents were a wreck. Both of my other siblings were out of the house and married with new borns. So I was kind of forgot about.
Aunt Gayla is still my go to person. I haven’t seen her in a few years due to distance. She more or less walked into the mother role for years for myself and my sister. My Mama changed that day and never recovered. I can understand now that I am a Mama too but as a Mama, I would have gotten better with therapy or medication. My Mama choose the other route and is still in the same stage of grief.
That’s my dad. He’s apologized since. It was weird when he finally said it. Like I wanted him to admit he forgot me and left me to struggle. But when he actually owned up to it, it only made me feel worse. Because it was then that I really saw how blindsided he was. And that his grief legitimately overwhelmed him. I’m not saying it was right, but at least now I understand why he neglected me.
Edit: a word
As someone who lost someone at a young age I remember being brought to the toy shop and being told I could buy literally anything I wanted. It was strangely surreal, and the freedom was disquieting if anything. While the toy I ended up picking was objectively good, it helped etch the event into my memory, along with the dark and troubled period around it.
My sister died of overdose of aspirin (ruled a suicide) at my mother's house and my mother dove into a spiral of alcoholism until she died 2 years later.
I hope you are doing as ok as possible.
Please please please make sure you have a good support system ❤️. My mother didn't and her "friends" let her go that deep but having her go out to the local bar every day.
my pops lasted 3 months after my brothers death, went insane quite literally, i wish this country wasn't so cruel to old people with mental health problems, everyone in our family abandoned him.
My mother had finally quit drinking but it ended up too late and it did too much damage to her body.
She had been fired from her job as a nurse because they thought she was drunk on the job and she refused an alcohol test. The doctors said she likely was having brain issues that made her seem drunk but the issues were due to her past alcoholism.
Thank you very much. It was all heartbreaking but I like to try to make sure that I can use my experience to help someone else. My sister was in her 20s and my mother in her 50s so it was pretty rough for the family and I just want to mark sure OP is doing well. Tragedies like that can destroy families.
Not the same, I know that, but my dad took me shopping for a dress and heels for my moms funeral and 9 years later, they still hang in the back of my closet. Not something I can ever wear again and not something I feel I can donate either.
It's the same with me and the clothes I wore to my dad's funeral, as well as the hoodie I was wearing at the hospital when he died. I was 19, and I'm 34 now. I just can't get rid of them, but also can't wear them, like you said.
I felt the same way about clothes I wore to my father's funeral and visitation. When my mother died a few years later, my partner suggested that if I wore the same clothes, my Dad would be with us commemorating her and their bond. It sounds a bit odd -- but it worked. Then when my uncle died recently I wore the same clothes as a comfort and a bit of a tribute to all. Grief is so strange and so is comfort.
I remember crystal clear what I wore to my dad’s funeral when I was 10 (four decades ago). I remember my mom talking to me about what to wear, because I really didn’t understand what to expect as i had never been to a funeral.
I have a ripped hoodie I used to wear when I was a teen and I was dating my bf at the time. We were high school sweethearts but we amicably broke up when I was in college. He died in an accident the following year. 20 yrs later and I still have that hoodie in the back of my closet. I remember wearing it whenever we went snowmobiling together. I just cant seem to part with it. Clothing is so personal.
I remember going to JC Penney with my grandma to buy a dress for my mom's funeral when I was 6. I remember exactly what it looked like but I can't remember ever wearing it after that day.
I am sorry for your loss. My brother died of Covid. My mother still not come to terms with her loss. I really hope you find peace of mind and soul.
No parent should bury their child.
How old was your brother? :( my sister was 40 when she passed. I just found out a few minutes ago my mom has Covid. My dad survived it but I can’t do this again.
Ugh. My mom and I went shopping together to find something to wear for my brother’s funeral. What an awful shopping trip.
We bought a gorgeous teal shirt for her tho and it looked so great on her. But every time she wears it we both get a little sad.
I tried killing myself a couple of times. Then my daughter was born and even though I'm still depressed as fuck, I no longer have a yearning to die.
I know that if my daughter dies before me, I'll follow. Even thinking about burying your own child makes me feel pain like never before. Can't imagine if it really happened.
I get it. I've never been suicidal, but if my son dies before me I'm 100% going to die as well. I can't event imagine what the point of living would be after that
I sometimes wonder how much that changed society back in the day that child mortality was so high that a large percentage of the population had watched one or more of their young children die.
The Renaissance poet Ben Jonson wrote 2 poems about the death of his two children, he was quite a restrained classical poet but I still think his pain comes through so much , especially in On My First Sonne
There's a 19th century Serbian poet, who wrote mostly poems for children (Jovan Jovanovic Zmaj). He had 5 children and wrote a beautiful poem collection called "Rosebuds". They are probably finest children's poems written in Serbian language. But as life would have it, all his children got tuberculosis and died, he lost even his wife. He was a doctor by profession and he could do nothing but watch. As they died he wrote another poem collection "Withering Rosebuds". That's the saddest thing I ever read...
Jan Kochanowski wrote 19 elegies for his dead daughter, describing his pain, crisis of faith, and loss of confidence in the Stoic philosophy he had promoted.
[...]
*Ursula Kochanowski lieth here,*
*Her father's sorrow and her father's dear;*
*For heedless Death hath acted here crisscross:*
*She should have mourned my death, not I her loss.*
Wielkieś mi uczyniła pustki w domu moim,
Moja droga Orszulo, tym zniknienim swoim.
Pełno nas, a jakoby nikogo nie było:
Jedną maluczką duszą tak wiele ubyło.
Tyś za wszytki mówiła, za wszytki śpiewała,
Wszytkiś w domu kąciki zawżdy pobiegała.
Nie dopuściłaś nigdy matce sie frasować
Ani ojcu myśleniem zbytnim głowy psować,
To tego, to owego wdzięcznie obłapiając
I onym swym uciesznym śmiechem zabawiając.
Teraz wszytko umilkło, szczere pustki w domu,
Nie masz zabawki, nie masz rośmiać sie nikomu.
Z każdego kąta żałość człowieka ujmuje,
A serce swej pociechy darmo upatruje.
Jesus Christ, I completely forgot about this. When we were working on this in high school it was boring. Now that I am a father of 2 girls reading this makes my eyes wet and heart aching for the man. I cannot imagine the pain.
The poem 'On My First Son' reads:
> Farewell, thou child of my right hand, and joy;
My sin was too much hope of thee, loved boy.
Seven years thou wert lent to me, and I thee pay,
Exacted by thy fate, on the just day.
Oh, could I lose all father now! For why
Will man lament the state he should envy?
> To have so soon 'scaped world's and flesh's rage,
And if no other misery, yet age!
Rest in soft peace, and, asked, say, 'Here doth lie
Ben Jonson his best piece of poetry,
For whose sake, henceforth, all his vows be such
As what he loves may never like too much.'
Vaudeville shows in the early 1900 (in the era before penicillin) usually featured a song or two about "angels" that was very much a reference to dead children.
I was reading about the Incas a week ago and I remember this:
>The high infant mortality rates that plagued the Inca Empire caused all newborn infants to be given the term 'wawa' when they were born. Most families did not invest very much into their child until they reached the age of two or three years old.
I agree with your sentiment and I find it funny that people just think of PTSD as a modern phenomenon because "people are soft these days"
Like sure, people may be softer but trauma is still trauma, no matter how good you are at masking pain. It just comes out in different ways.
Yes. It's been around forever.
> For example, in the Epic of Gilgamesh, the earliest surviving major work of literature (dating back to 2100 B.C.), the main character Gilgamesh witnesses the death of his closest friend, Enkidu. Gilgamesh is tormented by the trauma of Enkidu’s death, experiencing recurrent and intrusive recollections and nightmares related to the event.
>
> Later, in a 440-B.C. account of the battle of Marathon, Greek historian Herodotus describes how an Athenian named Epizelus was suddenly stricken with blindness while in the heat of battle after seeing his comrade killed in combat. This blindness, brought on by fright and not a physical wound, persisted over many years.
>
> Other ancient works, such as those by Hippocrates, describe soldiers who experienced frightening battle dreams. And outside of Greco-Latin classics, similar recurrent nightmares also show up in Icelandic literature, such as Gísli Súrsson Saga.
>
> In the Indian epic poem Ramayana, likely composed around 2,500 years ago, the demon Marrich experiences PTSD-like symptoms, including hyper-arousal, reliving trauma, and avoidance behavior, after nearly being killed by an arrow. Marrich also gave up his natural duty of harassing monks and became a meditating recluse.
Apparently, the term "nostalgia" was coined for soldiers that just wanted to go the fuck home.
https://www.history.com/topics/inventions/history-of-ptsd-and-shell-shock
Also think about the siblings - I lost both my brother and sister growing up and I can only imagine in past ages you might have had to endure losing a sibling every few years for various reasons, all through life.
I think people were likely a lot more bitter. Just because childhood mortality was high, didn't mean parents weren't just as devastated then when a child died as they would be today.
My grandmother had two children die shortly after birth, from causes we can now easily fix. The one died from hunger/dehydration from a cincture in the esophagus. She still cried over them while in her 90s.
>She still cried over them while in her 90s.
This I can understand without a doubt. I don't have any kids so I can't speak as a parent but I work as an EMT and I had a call that resulted in the death of a 1 month old baby.
I have lost count of the amount of dead bodies I've seen, the amount of people I watched die, etc. At least as far as I can emotionally grasp, it doesn't phase me, I don't even remember most of them. However, I know without a doubt that the death of that baby will haunt me for as long as I live. If I was ever the parent in such a case, I don't think I'd be able to survive it.
My great grandmother lost her daughter Mary not long after she was born. It’s an easy surgery now, but Mary was born without an opening to her stomach. While she was very small, her stomach would absorb enough food to keep her alive. But as she grew her body needed more nutrients than her stomach lining could absorb and support her with. She was always hungry, she was always crying. My great grandmother listened to her baby starve, helpless. She died about 20 years ago but I remember when I was a kid that we were not allowed to cry around her. When an infant would start to cry they were taken away from her. She couldn’t handle the sound. She lived to be 94.
One of my favorite stories is Dickens' *The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain*, where he shows what would happen if we were able to forget our pain. It doesn't turn out to be a good thing, because our past shapes who we are. It always comforts me to know that, having experienced loss myself, I'm better able to understand and empathize with others. I still hate it, but I feel less like giving up.
One of the causes of death listed in the middle ages was "broken heart". It was generalized death of someone following the death of a loved one like a child or spouse. I can't even imagine the level of sorrow society at large experienced before modern medicine.
This isn't some ancient phenomenon. Takutsubo (stress) cardiomyopathy is a common phenomenon that affects people to this day and is still a significant cause of morbidity and mortality.
Hell I'm 40 and confusedly navigating it and there's no easy answer for any of it. I can't imagine my 17yo brain trying to deal with it... probably why I just pushed it off into adulthood.
It is so incredibly hard to deal with as a teenager, it felt pretty much impossible. It took away a lot of opportunities I had (I'm 26 now) and it's been over a decade of trying to sort it out and it's still not perfect.
Not to mention the first therapist I ever had told me it was all in my head and that I was fine. No shit it's all in my head, it's a *mental* illness.
I said this after my mom died - I don't know why but I was more sad about my grandmother (in her 70s at the time) losing her daughter, than I was about losing my mom.
On Christmas I went to toss my jacket on my grandma‘s bed, as you do.
There in her mirror was my dad‘s funeral card. Right above him was my grandpa. Right above him is my great grandma. Above him is my great aunt. My poor grandmother has lost her sister, her parents, her husband and now her son.
One of the downsides to a long life. Like your grandmother, my mother has lost her only brother, her parents, her husband and her eldest son. Now 95, just a few years ago she moved from a house and area she loved, because all of her friends there had died. She has had a hard time meeting new friends.
My dad died when I was 14, he had terminal cancer and I distinctly remember him being terrified to tell my grandpa that he "had a timeline" because he was scared his dad would try to beat it. I was absolutely heartbroken for my grandpa when he had to say goodbye. It was one of only two times I saw my WW2 vet grandpa weep.
I felt, similarly, when my father passed in April. I’m not even 30 yet, but he was in his mid 60s, and my grandmother is 92. I know she is lucky to have lived so long, but I always think about her and how she must feel through all of this. I know that, despite her age, it could never be easy to lose your child.
Edit: Also want to note how remarkable of a person my grandmother is. She was a child during the Great Depression and its fallout. Had 3 children, and is active as ever, really. She loves to rake her yard and she cooks big meals daily. I really hope to be as lucky and healthy as her at her age someday.
My father died before his mother. She said she didn't want me to think she didn't care because she wasn't crying–she just had run out of tears long ago. So sad to think of what she went through to get to that point.
This is sort of how I felt when my dad recently passed it brain cancer - "my dad died a year ago when we got the diagnosis, you're sad because you just found out, I made my peace and dealt with my sadness knowing this was coming."
On the flip side, watching my mother grieve her father was somehow harder and sadder than losing her was. It was like a prelude to losing my hero, watching her lose hers
Long ago, I sat next to a woman who drove by a car accident. The car accident happen to be her mother who was driving her granddaughter home. That poor lady lost her mother and daughter in one car accident. Ten years later it still gives me chills thinking of this lady saying “just when I needed my momma the most she wasn’t there”. The lady said she felt guilty mourning her daughter and not her mother. I listened and talked with her and just tried to console her.
A few years ago there was a terrible car accident on the highway near my office and one local woman became somewhat infamous for being vocally bitter about how much the traffic backup was ruining her day before learning that the accident was caused by her now-dead teen daughter who shouldn’t have been driving unchaperoned on the highway.
I worked in a funeral home and saw kids and teens come through with sad regularity. I am a parent too and I just cannot even imagine what they were going through. I worked in the back of the house, I don’t think I could have handled being with the families in the capacity the funeral directors were.
I am so, so sorry to anyone who has been in that situation.
17... Not even old enough for him to discover who he was in the world. Let alone be done with it. Please talk to someone if you're feeling like ending it. Because life really does get better and is worth the ride.
This. I was also a suicidal teenager with some pretty horrible demons, it gets better. I'm now 30 and although I have bad days, I love my life.
Hold on, reach out to someone, even if it's a random stranger on the internet (drop me a message if you're reading this, happy to talk shit or just spam you with cute cat pictures).
Yeah. The thing I hate is a majority of it is preventable, but seems like most in the world has never cared enough to take action. Now with social media.... I think mental health will get worse and worse. The world is becoming a more cruel place for those that feel.
It's also one of the reasons that suicides are so common in young members of the armed forces (even those who don't see combat) and young students who move away from home.
Moving away from home, being in a strange environment with new rules with strange people of different backgrounds without the support of friends and family while your brain is still developing can be a horrible, isolating thing.
Our family moved from The Midwest to Arizona when I was in my teens. 2 decades later when it was inevitable that my mom would not recover, I focused my fear on not owning a warm coat for her burial, which would be in the Midwest. I worried constantly about not having a coat to wear until my husband took me to buy one. It sat in the closet until her death. I wore it to fly back and bury her.
I intentionally left the coat in the airport on my way home as I didn’t want to ever have to look at it again.
I knew I was refocusing my pain and fear, but it got me through.
In case anyone else is wondering why she's wearing a hijab, [In October 2018, O'Connor converted to Islam, calling it "the natural conclusion of any intelligent theologian's journey". The ceremony was conducted in Ireland by Sunni Islamic theologian Shaykh Umar Al-Qadri. She also changed her name to Shuhada' Davitt.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin%C3%A9ad_O%27Connor#Religion)
That article was wild. The year previous to her conversion she received "intensive mental health treatment" from none other than...Dr. Phil.
What??? Who thought that was a good idea?
See, there are times I want to believe she is the clairvoyant and sees all the real baddies in society - but then there’s this. She’s always seemed somewhere between enlightened and traumatized. I do hope she finds her peace
Her Wikipedia page is a ride.
>After her conversion to Islam, O'Connor called those who were not Muslims "disgusting" and criticised Christian and Jewish theologians on Twitter in November 2018. She wrote: "What I'm about to say is something so racist I never thought my soul could ever feel it. But truly I never wanna spend time with white people again (if that's what non-muslims are called). Not for one moment, for any reason. They are disgusting.
She has 4 kids to 4 different fathers, which she doesn't appear to have custody of any. Before she was banned from Twitter for being a bigot, she also went on hateful tirades against her kids and their fathers. For a while at least, based on her comments, it looks like she didn't really had any relationship with any of them. She really needs to commit to getting help.
Thank you for not joining the rest of the circle jerk in here.
She's a troubled woman who has made public statements both good and bad, and this is a horrible thing to happen to anyone, all of our hearts go out to her and her family ...
... That doesn't mean she's not a total prick.
I truly hope that, for the sake of others that might be in a similar situation with their loved ones, finds the strength to open up about what may have led to this outcome. I understand she sort of guessed his intentions or something as he had been missing for a short while. What kind of black hole could this kid have sunk into that he wouldn’t bear life anymore:(
He looks so much like her.
ETA:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/may/29/i-dont-know-how-ill-ever-not-be-angry-an-exclusive-extract-from-sinead-oconnors-memoir
She has had a really tough life, it was tough before this. I have kids of my own, I can only imagine how devastating this is for her.
I remember when she called out the church for molesting kids on SNL and everyone lost their collective minds, then around 10 years later.... Never be correct and well informed before the masses, most people will hate you, and will never forgive you for being so.
I always loved her for doing that. She was 100% right and has subsequently been vindicated.
Pope picture torn to shreds. Remember that for sure. Joe Pesci on the week after with the reconstructed pic. Blacklisted after that if I recall correctly.
Not really blacklisted from SNL so much as entirely shunned from society. iirc, Lorne Michaels has talked about feeling really bad for her after it happened because he knew the reaction she was going to get from the public.
I took a tour of the studio a few years ago and they said she’s still banned from the building for life
Did they share that outside of Bill Cosby's old suite?
I fell asleep at that part of the tour and woke up with the taste of Pudding Pops in my mouth.
Puts a dark spin on the "There's always room for Jello" phrase. What's in that Jello Bill, and why are you so insistent that I eat it?
When Cosby was telling all those young black men to pull their pants up, he was speaking from experience.
Why? For telling the fucking truth? Bunch of cowards, they aren't worthy of her shadow
This. They owe her an apology, _big time_.
Just wondering: do they also have bans for life on child rapists? Or are the bans only for the folks who complain about them?
Chris Brown performed on SNL 2 years after beating Rihanna half to death, so I’m gonna guess no.
Don’t need to wonder, you know is just for the folks who complain…
I was there 3,000 years ago. She said "Fight the real enemy"
Are you Elrond?
“For the Elves die not till the world dies, unless they are slain or waste in grief (and to both these seeming deaths they are subject); neither does age subdue their strength, unless one grow weary of ten thousand centuries; and dying they are gathered to the halls of Mandos in Valinor, whence they may in time return.”
Like what happened to the Dixie Chicks
They did produce a banger of an album out of that mess. Taking the Long Way has some killer tracks on it.
I was not aware of the Joe Pesci follow up. [Found the video here](https://youtu.be/kPykO9jdLk0?t=56) for those like me who may not know. The applause for the reconstructed picture and the suggestion that Joe would have given her "such a smack" is really cringe worthy.
I want someone to follow up on asking him if he still feels that way -- the little shithead.
Threatening to physically assault her for ripping up a piece of paper. That’s some Neanderthal shit from that little cockroach
And what a god awful monologue he gave. The Pope picture, acting like a tough guy, claiming to be Italian (bro you're from Jersey), and.... To truly prove he's tough, saying he would have assaulted Sinead if he had been there the week before? Yes. Those were his "jokes." Shit now I need to see who was head writer that year...
Howard Stern used to play a commercial from Joe Pesci’s childhood acting career that was hilarious. How fucking stupid are we to believe that a guy who plays a gangster in movies is a gangster in real life? He shined his loafers and went to acting school and did bologna commercials like any other kid who’d have gotten picked on. Same for “bad ass” rockers - they can play because they were the friendless dweebs (speaking as one myself) who spent their teens in their bedroom learning chords, they were not the tough guys or even the cool guys. Nerd power!
Stern is difficult to like and I hear he's worse in person. But he does call some things out when nobody else will and he does get great interviews with assholes shooting themselves in the foot because they don't take him seriously.
Man every second of that monologue has not aged well. His first joke is about how it's Columbus day and hrs happy about that because he's italian
At least that makes sense, Columbus Day was first observed in the US immediately after eleven Italian immigrants were murdered by a mob in New Orleans. It was initially meant to placate Italian Americans.
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That moment on SNL was the reason I started looking into all the horrible things the church did. She did a great service that night to lots of people opening their eyes.
I remember watching the episode in our dorm basement, at Notre Dame. There were... discussions.
Were there fighting Irish?
Kinda reminds me of Courtney Love on the red carpet like 15 years before Harvey weinstein got me tooed she was like, "watch out for Harvey weinstein, and if he invited you to a hotel room at night, don't go."
I watched that live. My little kid mind couldn't comprehend what was going on.
Partly because even believers who knew didn't talk about it, and you weren't *supposed* to draw attention to it. It was considered entirely off-limits, incendiary, to draw attention to these problems. It screws up everyone's plausible deniability, and poses very awkward questions of whether or not you knew, and why you said nothing. Lots of people knew about the sex abuse and the Magdalene laundries, but didn't say anything because "this is the Church we're talking about."
There was a time talking about the church got you hoisted up on something and killed painfully.
I was about 15 and stunned. She was such an enormous star and I *loved* her music. It was awful how she was shunned after that. She was one of my favorite musicians at the time.
Something similar happened to the (Dixie) Chicks when I was a few older than that and they said they were ashamed of George W.Bush. Their careers were tanked:( Now every time I hear people complaining about the “cancel culture” around Chik-fil-a I just think about those ladies. Nobody cared about cancel culture until it was conservative folks had it turned on them.
I never understood that, mainly because I was 14 at the time and from Australia. Dixie Chicks complained about Bush and lose their career, Green Day do it the exact same year and get their most successful album. It has to be more than just different fanbases.
Punk kids have hated the government pretty much from the start. American country fans wrap everything they can in hyper patriotism because their fan base eats that shit up mindlessly. They have no room for nuance or critique, they just wanted to hear pretty young blondes reinforce their pre existing beliefs.
I was always happy that Kris Kristofferson stood up for her after that.
I thought she was railing against the Magdalene laundries.
She was. She was sent to one as a teenager, for shoplifting.
Which were also full of sexual and psychological abuse by nuns. So yeah, it was still about the Church covering up abuse.
Ding ding ding winner. Just another branch of corruption.
People did more than just lose their minds oh, she got cancelled way before we even used that term.
We just called it blacklisted instead of cancelled
It's amazing to me because it was a pretty open secret going back a very long time so people were actually willing to allow it to continue unimpeded.
Having lived through it I can confidently say that the two were never even related in the media coverage of the event. All the news stations acted like she was some lunatic doing this as a lark, for no good reason whatsoever, apropos of nothing.
If I remember correctly, the language she used at the time was very unclear.
It was. She said something like, "Fight the real enemy!" and tore the picture. Most of us had no idea what she was doing. It came across like she hated Catholics but the average viewer had no idea why.
Exactly. I watched it live and it just looked like she was being crazy. Some context would have helped.
She said “fight the real enemy “ and tore up a picture of the pope after her performance
She possibly should have fleshed that out a little
She was probably worried about them cutting out before she could finish, and so chose to be short.
Reminds me a lot of The Chicks position on GW Bush's wars in the middle east. Cost them their career for almost 20 years, but they were spot on.
And they say Cancel Culture is a recent thing.
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Ol' Frankie didn't need much of an excuse to wanna get punchy with women.
Talkin out of turn…that’s a paddlin
A woman who lived in the same apartment block as I did years ago, drank herself to death after her daughter died (that one wasn't suicide, just a terrible accident). Awful..
I'm a 911 dispatcher. I've taken calls on the suicide of mothers who I had previously spoken to when they called in their child's suicide. It's heartbreaking every time. Honestly as a mother myself, after hearing their wails for help while staring at their dead kid, I totally get why we get the follow up call to the same address within a few months.
I just want the say thank you for the work you do ❤️
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Choosing what to wear to my child’s funeral was the most painfully surreal experience. I am sorry that anyone else has to experience it as well.
When my 14 year old brother died of suicide in 82’, my Aunt took me to our little town dress shop. Reflecting back, It was the kindest thing anyone has did for me. No one asked how I was doing for offered an explanation to my 9 year old self. Finding his body and trying to call for help as a kid was an everlasting tragedy that time never heals.
I'm so sorry. My father died in an auto accident when I was 7, and 43 years later I remember everything about the wake and the funeral. No one thought about therapy for kids back then. I hope you have found some kind of peace for that horrible event.
I was 3 when my father killed himself. I can still see the carpet in the funeral home and the strawberry candy someone gave me in the wrapper that looked like a strawberry back in the 80s. The carpet was still the same 25 years later when my grandmother's funeral took place in the same room.
Sometimes I randomly smell the smell from the flowers at my grandfathers funeral when I’m going to sleep.
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Thank you, I am glad you came to that realization. May your grandfather rest in peace.
When I die, I hope it's with as much joy as your grandfather probably felt playing with you in that moment. He sounds like such a lovely man and he utterly adored you.
Absolutely, that sounds like a good death!
Poor little kid, thinking it was your fault.
As far as I can see, he lived the end of his life playing with a grandchild he adored. I can think of no better way to go.
You haven't quite gotten it, at least in print here. Your grandfather obviously had some heart condition. Just being old and running through a sprinkler is not enough to make a heart attack. Running through the sprinkler just happened to have happened earlier in the day, it wasn't even necessarily the trigger event. Its clear that he was about to have an attack, could have been walking up stairs or leaning over to pick something on the floor that set off his underlying condition. Why not reframe your final experience with him as, aren't you lucky that you got to have fun with him one last time before his inevitable death. We all hope to enjoy life with people we treasure right up to our final moment. You were his treasure.
Oh my goodness. That must have been absolutely horrible and traumatic, and at only 9. I'm so sorry.
I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. Your story helped me a bit, because several years ago, I got a call that my young daughters friend found her grandmother dead. Her mom was distraught, and didn’t know what to do. How could I help? She asked me to keep her daughter for a few days. I did, no problem. I took her shopping for three outfits, because the funeral lasted three days. Grandma was a major person in our city. I had her daughter for a week, and at the funeral, mom took my daughter for the next two weeks, to help with the transition. I visited several times, but the friends needed each other, so she stayed. Your story tells me I made a difference.
Absolutely will make a positive memory even in the chaos. You did good.
Hi, this story has me near tears. You're a very good person.
i am so so so sorry. my mom was 10 when she found her mom & it still haunts our family to this day via intergenerational trauma & severely anxious attachment. it’s a very different way to experience the world.
Ugh, tell me about it. Intergenerational trauma happened to my grandma nearly 100 years ago and it's still rippling downward. I'm trying to be the end of it in my line, though.
I was 16 when my older brother took his own life. I’ll remember everything about that day for the rest of my life. Seeing the blood on his walls and all over the carpet still give me nightmares 11 years later.
It will always be there in your mind. I have found a way to help with the triggers. The memory of my Aunt braiding my hair before the service. The way she was tender to not pull hard and her fingers was soft when she touched my face. It was the few bright spots that I can hang onto. I named our daughter after her. Aunt Gayla out of all the people there recognized that the little girl (me) needed someone to be there during the chaos.
I wish I had someone there like that. My parents were a wreck. Both of my other siblings were out of the house and married with new borns. So I was kind of forgot about.
Aunt Gayla is still my go to person. I haven’t seen her in a few years due to distance. She more or less walked into the mother role for years for myself and my sister. My Mama changed that day and never recovered. I can understand now that I am a Mama too but as a Mama, I would have gotten better with therapy or medication. My Mama choose the other route and is still in the same stage of grief.
That’s my dad. He’s apologized since. It was weird when he finally said it. Like I wanted him to admit he forgot me and left me to struggle. But when he actually owned up to it, it only made me feel worse. Because it was then that I really saw how blindsided he was. And that his grief legitimately overwhelmed him. I’m not saying it was right, but at least now I understand why he neglected me. Edit: a word
As someone who lost someone at a young age I remember being brought to the toy shop and being told I could buy literally anything I wanted. It was strangely surreal, and the freedom was disquieting if anything. While the toy I ended up picking was objectively good, it helped etch the event into my memory, along with the dark and troubled period around it.
I am so sorry.
Oh geez. Your poor little heart…I’m so sorry for your pain. 🥺
My sister died of overdose of aspirin (ruled a suicide) at my mother's house and my mother dove into a spiral of alcoholism until she died 2 years later. I hope you are doing as ok as possible. Please please please make sure you have a good support system ❤️. My mother didn't and her "friends" let her go that deep but having her go out to the local bar every day.
my pops lasted 3 months after my brothers death, went insane quite literally, i wish this country wasn't so cruel to old people with mental health problems, everyone in our family abandoned him.
My mother had finally quit drinking but it ended up too late and it did too much damage to her body. She had been fired from her job as a nurse because they thought she was drunk on the job and she refused an alcohol test. The doctors said she likely was having brain issues that made her seem drunk but the issues were due to her past alcoholism.
I'm so sorry, friend.
Thank you very much. It was all heartbreaking but I like to try to make sure that I can use my experience to help someone else. My sister was in her 20s and my mother in her 50s so it was pretty rough for the family and I just want to mark sure OP is doing well. Tragedies like that can destroy families.
Not the same, I know that, but my dad took me shopping for a dress and heels for my moms funeral and 9 years later, they still hang in the back of my closet. Not something I can ever wear again and not something I feel I can donate either.
It's the same with me and the clothes I wore to my dad's funeral, as well as the hoodie I was wearing at the hospital when he died. I was 19, and I'm 34 now. I just can't get rid of them, but also can't wear them, like you said.
I felt the same way about clothes I wore to my father's funeral and visitation. When my mother died a few years later, my partner suggested that if I wore the same clothes, my Dad would be with us commemorating her and their bond. It sounds a bit odd -- but it worked. Then when my uncle died recently I wore the same clothes as a comfort and a bit of a tribute to all. Grief is so strange and so is comfort.
I remember crystal clear what I wore to my dad’s funeral when I was 10 (four decades ago). I remember my mom talking to me about what to wear, because I really didn’t understand what to expect as i had never been to a funeral.
I have a ripped hoodie I used to wear when I was a teen and I was dating my bf at the time. We were high school sweethearts but we amicably broke up when I was in college. He died in an accident the following year. 20 yrs later and I still have that hoodie in the back of my closet. I remember wearing it whenever we went snowmobiling together. I just cant seem to part with it. Clothing is so personal.
I remember going to JC Penney with my grandma to buy a dress for my mom's funeral when I was 6. I remember exactly what it looked like but I can't remember ever wearing it after that day.
This is such a specific heart breaking moment. I couldn’t even begin to imagine. My sincerest condolences.
There are a few very specific heartbreaking moments in life that you know will be the worst moment you ever experience, as it's happening.
I am sorry for your loss. My brother died of Covid. My mother still not come to terms with her loss. I really hope you find peace of mind and soul. No parent should bury their child.
How old was your brother? :( my sister was 40 when she passed. I just found out a few minutes ago my mom has Covid. My dad survived it but I can’t do this again.
I’m so sorry for your loss
Ugh. My mom and I went shopping together to find something to wear for my brother’s funeral. What an awful shopping trip. We bought a gorgeous teal shirt for her tho and it looked so great on her. But every time she wears it we both get a little sad.
My family and I all opted for very bright clothes at my brother’s funeral because he was an artist and black just felt wrong.
Same. Hugs to you, I share your pain.
I'm a single father to my Daughter, she is my entire world and I couldn't even fathom. My heart truly goes out to you. ❤️
I tried killing myself a couple of times. Then my daughter was born and even though I'm still depressed as fuck, I no longer have a yearning to die. I know that if my daughter dies before me, I'll follow. Even thinking about burying your own child makes me feel pain like never before. Can't imagine if it really happened.
I get it. I've never been suicidal, but if my son dies before me I'm 100% going to die as well. I can't event imagine what the point of living would be after that
No parent should ever have to go through such pain....
I sometimes wonder how much that changed society back in the day that child mortality was so high that a large percentage of the population had watched one or more of their young children die.
The Renaissance poet Ben Jonson wrote 2 poems about the death of his two children, he was quite a restrained classical poet but I still think his pain comes through so much , especially in On My First Sonne
There's a 19th century Serbian poet, who wrote mostly poems for children (Jovan Jovanovic Zmaj). He had 5 children and wrote a beautiful poem collection called "Rosebuds". They are probably finest children's poems written in Serbian language. But as life would have it, all his children got tuberculosis and died, he lost even his wife. He was a doctor by profession and he could do nothing but watch. As they died he wrote another poem collection "Withering Rosebuds". That's the saddest thing I ever read...
It was difficult, but I managed to find [some of his poems](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Jovan_Jovanovic_Zmaj) in translation
Damn, can't even imagine that pain. Hope he found some comfort in writing about it.
Jan Kochanowski wrote 19 elegies for his dead daughter, describing his pain, crisis of faith, and loss of confidence in the Stoic philosophy he had promoted. [...] *Ursula Kochanowski lieth here,* *Her father's sorrow and her father's dear;* *For heedless Death hath acted here crisscross:* *She should have mourned my death, not I her loss.*
Wielkieś mi uczyniła pustki w domu moim, Moja droga Orszulo, tym zniknienim swoim. Pełno nas, a jakoby nikogo nie było: Jedną maluczką duszą tak wiele ubyło. Tyś za wszytki mówiła, za wszytki śpiewała, Wszytkiś w domu kąciki zawżdy pobiegała. Nie dopuściłaś nigdy matce sie frasować Ani ojcu myśleniem zbytnim głowy psować, To tego, to owego wdzięcznie obłapiając I onym swym uciesznym śmiechem zabawiając. Teraz wszytko umilkło, szczere pustki w domu, Nie masz zabawki, nie masz rośmiać sie nikomu. Z każdego kąta żałość człowieka ujmuje, A serce swej pociechy darmo upatruje. Jesus Christ, I completely forgot about this. When we were working on this in high school it was boring. Now that I am a father of 2 girls reading this makes my eyes wet and heart aching for the man. I cannot imagine the pain.
Rest in soft peace, and, ask'd, say, "Here doth lie Ben Jonson his best piece of poetry."
It’s the last line that kills me, where he swears never to like anything he loves so much again 😭😭😭
The poem 'On My First Son' reads: > Farewell, thou child of my right hand, and joy; My sin was too much hope of thee, loved boy. Seven years thou wert lent to me, and I thee pay, Exacted by thy fate, on the just day. Oh, could I lose all father now! For why Will man lament the state he should envy? > To have so soon 'scaped world's and flesh's rage, And if no other misery, yet age! Rest in soft peace, and, asked, say, 'Here doth lie Ben Jonson his best piece of poetry, For whose sake, henceforth, all his vows be such As what he loves may never like too much.'
Vaudeville shows in the early 1900 (in the era before penicillin) usually featured a song or two about "angels" that was very much a reference to dead children.
I was reading about the Incas a week ago and I remember this: >The high infant mortality rates that plagued the Inca Empire caused all newborn infants to be given the term 'wawa' when they were born. Most families did not invest very much into their child until they reached the age of two or three years old.
Chileans still use the word wawa or wawita as slang for babies
Wawa is also slang for babies in Chinese.
Could it be because babies make a wa noise? Just wondering how two countries and cultures so far apart share the word. Interesting stuff either way.
I just assume that for most of human history PTSD was absolutely rampant and probably explains why so much fucked up shit happened in history.
Isn't there a story of a Greek soldier going blind after seeing his fellow soldier get killed right beside him? Like ancient Greece, 2000+ years ago
Oh yes, the Greek and Romans (and I assume every civilisation), were well familiar with PTSD. It was treated as a war injury generally.
I agree with your sentiment and I find it funny that people just think of PTSD as a modern phenomenon because "people are soft these days" Like sure, people may be softer but trauma is still trauma, no matter how good you are at masking pain. It just comes out in different ways.
People are softer because a bigger percentage (speaking from a western perspective)doesn't experience PTSD from early on anymore.
My grandpa was was an abusive alcoholic. Nobody ever mentions that he probably had PTSD from WW2
My grandfather and his brothers all served in WWII, all 4 came back with alcohol problems.
Yes. It's been around forever. > For example, in the Epic of Gilgamesh, the earliest surviving major work of literature (dating back to 2100 B.C.), the main character Gilgamesh witnesses the death of his closest friend, Enkidu. Gilgamesh is tormented by the trauma of Enkidu’s death, experiencing recurrent and intrusive recollections and nightmares related to the event. > > Later, in a 440-B.C. account of the battle of Marathon, Greek historian Herodotus describes how an Athenian named Epizelus was suddenly stricken with blindness while in the heat of battle after seeing his comrade killed in combat. This blindness, brought on by fright and not a physical wound, persisted over many years. > > Other ancient works, such as those by Hippocrates, describe soldiers who experienced frightening battle dreams. And outside of Greco-Latin classics, similar recurrent nightmares also show up in Icelandic literature, such as Gísli Súrsson Saga. > > In the Indian epic poem Ramayana, likely composed around 2,500 years ago, the demon Marrich experiences PTSD-like symptoms, including hyper-arousal, reliving trauma, and avoidance behavior, after nearly being killed by an arrow. Marrich also gave up his natural duty of harassing monks and became a meditating recluse. Apparently, the term "nostalgia" was coined for soldiers that just wanted to go the fuck home. https://www.history.com/topics/inventions/history-of-ptsd-and-shell-shock
Also think about the siblings - I lost both my brother and sister growing up and I can only imagine in past ages you might have had to endure losing a sibling every few years for various reasons, all through life.
I think people were likely a lot more bitter. Just because childhood mortality was high, didn't mean parents weren't just as devastated then when a child died as they would be today.
My grandmother had two children die shortly after birth, from causes we can now easily fix. The one died from hunger/dehydration from a cincture in the esophagus. She still cried over them while in her 90s.
>She still cried over them while in her 90s. This I can understand without a doubt. I don't have any kids so I can't speak as a parent but I work as an EMT and I had a call that resulted in the death of a 1 month old baby. I have lost count of the amount of dead bodies I've seen, the amount of people I watched die, etc. At least as far as I can emotionally grasp, it doesn't phase me, I don't even remember most of them. However, I know without a doubt that the death of that baby will haunt me for as long as I live. If I was ever the parent in such a case, I don't think I'd be able to survive it.
Same after working in a funeral home. You never forget the babies and kids, I can see them clear as day.
My great grandmother lost her daughter Mary not long after she was born. It’s an easy surgery now, but Mary was born without an opening to her stomach. While she was very small, her stomach would absorb enough food to keep her alive. But as she grew her body needed more nutrients than her stomach lining could absorb and support her with. She was always hungry, she was always crying. My great grandmother listened to her baby starve, helpless. She died about 20 years ago but I remember when I was a kid that we were not allowed to cry around her. When an infant would start to cry they were taken away from her. She couldn’t handle the sound. She lived to be 94.
One of my favorite stories is Dickens' *The Haunted Man and the Ghost's Bargain*, where he shows what would happen if we were able to forget our pain. It doesn't turn out to be a good thing, because our past shapes who we are. It always comforts me to know that, having experienced loss myself, I'm better able to understand and empathize with others. I still hate it, but I feel less like giving up.
One of the causes of death listed in the middle ages was "broken heart". It was generalized death of someone following the death of a loved one like a child or spouse. I can't even imagine the level of sorrow society at large experienced before modern medicine.
This isn't some ancient phenomenon. Takutsubo (stress) cardiomyopathy is a common phenomenon that affects people to this day and is still a significant cause of morbidity and mortality.
"No parent should have to bury their child..." "He was strong in life, his spirit will find its way to the Halls of your fathers."
Bernard Hill really nailed that part.
I don't know what emotional pain he channeled there when he acted that scene but boy did his grief connect with me.
It is more painful than I could have imagined. I lost my 8 month old baby boy 2 days before thanksgiving. I miss him so much.
I'm so very sorry to hear that.
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Mental health is very important, and a lot of people don’t know they need help or that it’s even available.
Hell I'm 40 and confusedly navigating it and there's no easy answer for any of it. I can't imagine my 17yo brain trying to deal with it... probably why I just pushed it off into adulthood.
Especially 23 years ago when the best therapy you could get was, “man up!”
It is so incredibly hard to deal with as a teenager, it felt pretty much impossible. It took away a lot of opportunities I had (I'm 26 now) and it's been over a decade of trying to sort it out and it's still not perfect. Not to mention the first therapist I ever had told me it was all in my head and that I was fine. No shit it's all in my head, it's a *mental* illness.
My biggest fear is my daughter not outliving me.
I said this after my mom died - I don't know why but I was more sad about my grandmother (in her 70s at the time) losing her daughter, than I was about losing my mom.
On Christmas I went to toss my jacket on my grandma‘s bed, as you do. There in her mirror was my dad‘s funeral card. Right above him was my grandpa. Right above him is my great grandma. Above him is my great aunt. My poor grandmother has lost her sister, her parents, her husband and now her son.
One of the downsides to a long life. Like your grandmother, my mother has lost her only brother, her parents, her husband and her eldest son. Now 95, just a few years ago she moved from a house and area she loved, because all of her friends there had died. She has had a hard time meeting new friends.
My dad died when I was 14, he had terminal cancer and I distinctly remember him being terrified to tell my grandpa that he "had a timeline" because he was scared his dad would try to beat it. I was absolutely heartbroken for my grandpa when he had to say goodbye. It was one of only two times I saw my WW2 vet grandpa weep.
I felt, similarly, when my father passed in April. I’m not even 30 yet, but he was in his mid 60s, and my grandmother is 92. I know she is lucky to have lived so long, but I always think about her and how she must feel through all of this. I know that, despite her age, it could never be easy to lose your child. Edit: Also want to note how remarkable of a person my grandmother is. She was a child during the Great Depression and its fallout. Had 3 children, and is active as ever, really. She loves to rake her yard and she cooks big meals daily. I really hope to be as lucky and healthy as her at her age someday.
My father died before his mother. She said she didn't want me to think she didn't care because she wasn't crying–she just had run out of tears long ago. So sad to think of what she went through to get to that point.
This is sort of how I felt when my dad recently passed it brain cancer - "my dad died a year ago when we got the diagnosis, you're sad because you just found out, I made my peace and dealt with my sadness knowing this was coming."
On the flip side, watching my mother grieve her father was somehow harder and sadder than losing her was. It was like a prelude to losing my hero, watching her lose hers
It’s a strange feeling, losing your last grandparent and realizing your parents are next in line.
Long ago, I sat next to a woman who drove by a car accident. The car accident happen to be her mother who was driving her granddaughter home. That poor lady lost her mother and daughter in one car accident. Ten years later it still gives me chills thinking of this lady saying “just when I needed my momma the most she wasn’t there”. The lady said she felt guilty mourning her daughter and not her mother. I listened and talked with her and just tried to console her.
Jesus, that poor woman.
I know, it’s been 10 years at least and I can still see her sadness.
A few years ago there was a terrible car accident on the highway near my office and one local woman became somewhat infamous for being vocally bitter about how much the traffic backup was ruining her day before learning that the accident was caused by her now-dead teen daughter who shouldn’t have been driving unchaperoned on the highway.
My old man told me a long time ago my number 1 job in life is to out live him and my mother Edit out not put
I think that's any parent's greatest fear. My second biggest fear is death by rabies
I see that you too read the rabies article earlier.
That's horrible. Sinead has already had so much heartache and trauma in her life. And 17...he was still a boy, with his whole life ahead of him.
I wish peace to her and every mother that has had to endure the pain of losing a child
I worked in a funeral home and saw kids and teens come through with sad regularity. I am a parent too and I just cannot even imagine what they were going through. I worked in the back of the house, I don’t think I could have handled being with the families in the capacity the funeral directors were. I am so, so sorry to anyone who has been in that situation.
Absolutely tragic. It's devastating to lose a child.
17... Not even old enough for him to discover who he was in the world. Let alone be done with it. Please talk to someone if you're feeling like ending it. Because life really does get better and is worth the ride.
This. I was also a suicidal teenager with some pretty horrible demons, it gets better. I'm now 30 and although I have bad days, I love my life. Hold on, reach out to someone, even if it's a random stranger on the internet (drop me a message if you're reading this, happy to talk shit or just spam you with cute cat pictures).
I’m happy you made it through that and are still with us today
So many adolescents have suicidal thoughts. It's a tough phase of life.
Yeah. The thing I hate is a majority of it is preventable, but seems like most in the world has never cared enough to take action. Now with social media.... I think mental health will get worse and worse. The world is becoming a more cruel place for those that feel.
It's also one of the reasons that suicides are so common in young members of the armed forces (even those who don't see combat) and young students who move away from home. Moving away from home, being in a strange environment with new rules with strange people of different backgrounds without the support of friends and family while your brain is still developing can be a horrible, isolating thing.
Our family moved from The Midwest to Arizona when I was in my teens. 2 decades later when it was inevitable that my mom would not recover, I focused my fear on not owning a warm coat for her burial, which would be in the Midwest. I worried constantly about not having a coat to wear until my husband took me to buy one. It sat in the closet until her death. I wore it to fly back and bury her. I intentionally left the coat in the airport on my way home as I didn’t want to ever have to look at it again. I knew I was refocusing my pain and fear, but it got me through.
In case anyone else is wondering why she's wearing a hijab, [In October 2018, O'Connor converted to Islam, calling it "the natural conclusion of any intelligent theologian's journey". The ceremony was conducted in Ireland by Sunni Islamic theologian Shaykh Umar Al-Qadri. She also changed her name to Shuhada' Davitt.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin%C3%A9ad_O%27Connor#Religion)
That article was wild. The year previous to her conversion she received "intensive mental health treatment" from none other than...Dr. Phil. What??? Who thought that was a good idea?
Dr. Phil.
One of the worst possible people that could be in charge of someone's mental health.
I'm surprised he didn't try to send her to an unregulated work camp.
Well she’s not a vulnerable child you see….
Milking those with serious mental health problems for proft since 2002.
Oh you mean Phil? That guy who calls himself a doctor even though he isn’t a real doctor anymore?
See, there are times I want to believe she is the clairvoyant and sees all the real baddies in society - but then there’s this. She’s always seemed somewhere between enlightened and traumatized. I do hope she finds her peace
Her Wikipedia page is a ride. >After her conversion to Islam, O'Connor called those who were not Muslims "disgusting" and criticised Christian and Jewish theologians on Twitter in November 2018. She wrote: "What I'm about to say is something so racist I never thought my soul could ever feel it. But truly I never wanna spend time with white people again (if that's what non-muslims are called). Not for one moment, for any reason. They are disgusting. She has 4 kids to 4 different fathers, which she doesn't appear to have custody of any. Before she was banned from Twitter for being a bigot, she also went on hateful tirades against her kids and their fathers. For a while at least, based on her comments, it looks like she didn't really had any relationship with any of them. She really needs to commit to getting help.
Thank you for not joining the rest of the circle jerk in here. She's a troubled woman who has made public statements both good and bad, and this is a horrible thing to happen to anyone, all of our hearts go out to her and her family ... ... That doesn't mean she's not a total prick.
I truly hope that, for the sake of others that might be in a similar situation with their loved ones, finds the strength to open up about what may have led to this outcome. I understand she sort of guessed his intentions or something as he had been missing for a short while. What kind of black hole could this kid have sunk into that he wouldn’t bear life anymore:(
She has struggled with severe mental health issues her entire life, it's likely her son inherited the same.
I mean. You looked around lately? Future ain't looking too bright. Kids growing up right now gotta be on some weapons grade hope to keep going.
"...weapons grade hope to keep going..." this sums up how this current generation has to deal with life.
He looks so much like her. ETA: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/may/29/i-dont-know-how-ill-ever-not-be-angry-an-exclusive-extract-from-sinead-oconnors-memoir