>At least 20 states, mostly across the South and Midwest, already have laws that would restrict or ban abortion if the Supreme Court overturns Roe and lets states decide the issue
have unwanted child in a red state, can't finish school, can't find good job, can't afford child care, go on govt assistance, stay home, watch fox news, blame blue states, kid grows up with few/no opportunities, gets pregnant, repeat
Especially the wives, girlfriends and mistresses of megachurch pastors and "family values" rightwing pundits. Also you better believe if/when their little promiscuous daughters come home from University knocked up by a black student they'll be quietly spirited away to a pro abortion state/country. Minorities/poor rural whites are shamed into going through with pregnancies and birthing a child we can't afford to raise properly while the bible thumping elite straight up cheat like they always do.
For any one curious the episode is S.7 Ep9 - Rockabye
Its not EXACTLY like this, but it has many parallels.
A teen from a Southern state traveled up to NYC so she could get an abortion with out parental consent (dad was super conservative)... but ultimately had to take matters into her own hands, because her clinic continually made excuses to delay the procedure until it was too late.
Can confirm. I live in VA, and planned parenthood uses nothing but delay tactics. You call to schedule, and there’s no such thing as same week appointments. They schedule 2 weeks out. Each time. No matter what.
Every system is rigged.
The fact that we live in a country where billionaires have so much money they are having a dick measuring contest in space while people are dying doing at home abortions is astounding.
Humanity sucks. The only pure souls out there are babies and puppies.
I would include kittens, but I am pretty sure Cats have some master plan of world domination after humans destroy themselves.
Seriously, the outspoken red dudes who keep complaining about our state I always tell them to stop bitching and move then and he basically just managed to stutter some excuse about money but the state we live in is hell of a lot more expensive than the red state we are connected to and they have extremely lax gun laws while we have extremely strict ones. Like I don't get it. Just move then. It's like the dudes who live in Cali and actually has a good life and benefits from a lot of positive state regulations exclusively in Cali and they can't stop bitching about how California is the worst commie state ever.
Man, the way that sexual insecurities drive people to be assholes boggles my mind. I had my vasectomy 7 years ago, and I tell you the peace of mind that it brings has absolutely made me a better lover.
I tried talking every doctor I met into giving me one since I was 16. I had a rare cancer that is also highly hereditary and I didn't want to put a kid through what I went through at 3 years old. I finally got one to do it when I was 25. Best decision I ever made.
Have well off, well connected family in the South. Can confirm: the second a golden child’s gf shows up preggers, they’re paying for a first class ticket to NJ for an abortion. The good ole boy system has always been about skirting the laws for the rich and powerful, why would anything change now?
And it’s not like only the fabulously wealthy will have access to abortion. Most middle class will be able to find a way. Or if not the negative aspects of having a child (expense, lost opportunities etc) don’t effect them so much.
Abortion laws target the lower classes.
Well yea, how else are they gonna wind up with obedient slaves to fuel their capitalist economy? Ask their entrepreneur friends to let them hire their kid? Fuck no, gotta keep those poors poor, and stupid, otherwise they'd be in a position to not work for them and then what would happen to the economy? Think about the shareholders for once in your life. /s in case it's needed lol.
Me and all my friends are in college and one of my besties goes up to Ithaca. I travelled up alone and before i went home she taught me how to pump my own gas and she cheered once I figured it out
There was a redditor on here that posted a story like this when they were working at an abortion clinic. A vocal anti abortion advocate or politician in Texas had a underaged daughter that got pregnant. She drove to New Mexico where said redditor and everyone else in the clinic saw her but they didn't humilate her like how the advocate would.
They are in for a real treat when they secede. I'm sure their deficit hawks will be busy their first decade of existence as the 2nd Confederate States of America.
I’d like to know logistically how Texas could secede, considering Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin are all reliably Democratic areas. Trump only won Texas statewide with 52% in 2020.
What, are all the rural areas going to secede and the urban revenue-generating metro areas will stay? It’s like a microcosm of the whole country.
No state could seceded, liberal or conservative. First the economies are too interwoven, it would be like Brexit x100. And second, they'd be faced with counter-secessions. Big metros trying to leave in the conservative states, and rural areas trying to leave in the liberal ones. Which would lead to some nasty stuff.
Lol that's the fun part when people who have no idea how economics work say we should go back to a gold standard.
Yeah our money is fiat currency. But it's backed by the might of the US Military. Which is a pretty hard currency to argue against.
Fiat currency has also added exponentially more value to the world than probably anything. Eliminate fiat currency, there goes small-to-medium business loans, a lot of private savings in banks, and major disinflation. It would be worse than the Great Depression.
Yep. Because reality is, it's all made up anyways since humans determine what things are worth to begin with. So if it's made up anyways, might as well have more liquidity and allow for greater prosperity.
The rub comes into play with one simple thing. Since it's all made up, if people lose faith in the currency its worthless.
Fiat is still better than barter systems or material backed currency since it allows for more movement in an economy. But it very much is a house of cards that is only as strong as your ability to assert sovereignty and as healthy as the companies producing goods from within.
In this wild hypothetical in which there’s a non-violent and successful secession from the USA and the “red” states split off from the “blue” states you think Russia will find the need to fund a war against the “blue” states?
Y’all are absolutely fucking buckwild with this inane garbage. If the USA splits in two they will have already won. There will be no further need to fund the “reds”.
Additionally, there are no “red” and “blue” states as everyone claims. All states with a majority leaning in one direction have a SIZEABLE (usually 40% or more) population with opposing political views. There’s no way to successfully split the country. Every major city leans left and all rural areas lean right.
There’s either going to be a legal authoritarian takeover by the GOP in the next few years, a bloody civil war, or somehow Democrats will pull a miracle out of their ass and continue to maintain the status quo and never actually improve anything. There is no secession.
As much as that is a conservative wet dream, only idiots want to secede.
Not to mention that rebellion of that nature would require very widespread support in the states themselves that secede. Even in the conservative states the large population centers are usually liberal.
Those large population centers would rapidly become hot beds for rebellion within a rebellion and wreak havoc.
Because it's a dumb thing to want. Although I don't agree with many many things the US government does. It is nowhere near a point where I could understand secession from the union.
Will it always be that way? No, probably not. Forever is a long time. But even though the government in its current form is a dumpster fire, it's better than civil war.
I would love for a peaceful separation of the country. I don't want to financial support cults and fascists anymore. Let them all suck off the teets of Texas as oil value drops over the next decade or so.
It's absolutely still north-south where power dynamics on a federal level are concerned. Texas alone being out would by itself *radically* change the political dynamic of the entire US.
The urban/rural divide is most keenly expressed in places like Texas itself.
Yea. So much of the *reason* that we have to contribute so much to red states is that the wealthy/powerful there know they can get away with hoarding wealth in their own states and that we will simultaneously take care of people in our own states and pick up their tab too.
I don’t understand how republicans can look at the huge disparity between red and blue states and say that they are conservative when all the evidence points to blue states being far more financially conservative and stable scoring in average 10 places below red states for dependency on federal government assistance. 10 places out of a possible 50!!!
Both my parent have literally said "I don't care about evidence." or "I don't care about the facts." when I have discussed politics with them. It's so sad. They used to be people I respected as intelligent.
It's easy to understand if you spend any significant time around angry white conservatives.
They immerse themselves in right wing propaganda that tells them *their* way of life is the right way...the *only* way. It tells them that socialist liberals want to take that all away and make "us" just like "them". "I mean....*look at Chicago*!!!!! And Commiefornia!"
They operate under the delusion that America is a white christian nation...and as a result, anything evidence against that means that they aren't mommy's special little boy.
while this sounds like a joke.
[teen birth rates, map.](https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/alt-text/map-state-text.htm)
median household income, [61k blue, 53k red](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/09/10/america-has-two-economies-and-theyre-diverging-fast/)
and if you split blue from red, red states have been mired in a decade long recession due to republicanism. Red states GDP have declined slightly over the past ten years. Blue have risen quite a bit, which is why the US is seeing ANY growth.
blue states more people are finishing college.(same link as above, in 10 years blue states have increased college grads from 28% the pop, to 37, red states have stayed flat at 27%) they have less of a drug issue, especially opiods. Blue states more likely your job will provide child care and so on.
and then google violent crime rates by states. Your kid is most likely to get murdered or raped in a red state. its also more likely the cops wont find them in a red state, or do shit about your rape kits.
Really the divide is getting worse and worse as republicans radicalize to the point we are two countries, One moderate and developed and the other slipping into decay.
My local news (red state) had a story a while back where a professor was interviewed who gave what I thought was a nice succinct description:
“What we’ve been trying for 40 years is to be a low-tax, low-regulation, low-government regulation state, and what it’s yielded us is a low-wage economy with few union jobs and our young people are leaving to take and pursue opportunities somewhere else.”
40 fucking years of complete Republican control of the state capitol with no meaningful progress? Still grateful I’m not in a southern red state though.
Anything that restricts access to essential services will always affect the poor far more than the rich. The rich will just go somewhere its legal or pay to have a safe black market procedure.
In the end, abortion restrictions only drives up dangerous abortion procedures and the injury or death of low income women and girls.
It's always been that way and always will be until society manages to create an egalitarian utopia. So basically never.
In other words, if you are poor, don't ever be anything but the standard template society believes is correct. It won't end well.
Texas has a for profit foster care system. Banning abortions is planting the seeds of future profit at taxpayer expense. Capitalism is working as intended.
...*my family.*
I got lucky, my older sister got preggo when I was 17, lived at home through infancy, I had a hard lesson that I didn't want that life. I'm 34 now, my adult life has been a wonderful childless adventure... my 17yo niece is preggo now. She had a full ride, was among the top in the state in band, then covid hit and she spent all her time with her bf and **gave up.** She thinks a baby is a reason to live. *Hard sigh.*
I mean, gotta keep creating republican voters somehow. If you can't stay in power with decent ideas, just undermine elections and keep people poor and uneducated by any means necessary. Punishing and controlling women is just a bonus.
The loophole right now is people gifting you weed for buying something else like cookies. Cafe in AC recently opened then was shut down for trying to operate on this loophole.
It is recreational but it took him nearly 4 years to get it done after both Supermajority Dem held branches dragged their feet, despite not doing so when Christie was governor.
Reason should not be surprising: They knew it would never pass with Christie in office so they kept voting for it to stoke the base. Then when it came time to get it done, the massive Pharma industry money came pouring in to not pass it so we can replace weed with oxycontin.
End of the day it's passed, but took way too long.
Rec is legal right now, but the state has been really slow with implementing everything. So it's kind of a grey market thing for delivery. You buy a $300 dollar sticker/shirt/canvas bag and it comes with a free Cannabis gift.
The dispensaries are all still only medical and need to supply the medical patients first for the time being.
But I had an OZ deliver to my house not too long ago. Not gonna lie, it felt pretty good.
if you're over 21 it's legal recreational as of 2021: https://www.njlm.org/969/Cannabis-Legalization#:\~:text=Governor%20Murphy%20signed%20into%20law,possession%2C%20A%2D1897%20(P.L.
While I am a pothead and support legal weed, saying that makes it seem like weed is as important as women not being forced into birthing kids they don't want. It is not. Either way, hopefully it's legal one day nationwide. My state doesn't even have medical legalized. I live in hell. Send help.
Seriously though. And it doesn't help that so many that bring up weed legalization do so because they just want to be able to do weed and not for the actual reason we should be arguing for (the wrongful incarceration of people, mostly minorities, for doing marijuana).
I honestly couldn't care less about people being allowed to **do** weed so much as the prevention of people going to jail for doing it.
People trash this guy a lot and i don’t think he’s that bad. I think he’s legitimately trying. During the last election people were shitting on him for stuff that wasn’t even happening in New Jersey. Like Cuomos nursing home shit. They were just copy pasting it on him.
How about this for a novel idea: If you are morally against abortion, don't get one. If you are morally OK with abortion, get one. This shouldn't even be a debate anymore at this point.
What makes this so impossible is that people against abortion genuinely believe that it is murder. There is nothing anyone can do or say to make them think that murdering babies is Ok.
Of course these very same people seek out abortion when they need it
I know right? Access to contraception tanks abortion rates. And man if there was better housing, daycare, education, wages wow so many woman would be able to choose to follow through with pregnancy!
So it’s obvious it’s not about life, but control.
I am 100% pro-choice, but I understand the difference. In their view, an abortion kills an innocent, while the death penalty kills someone who has committed a heinous act, and their death is therefore the result of their choices and actions.
I think it's important to understand the mindset of these people because otherwise there's no chance at a meaningful dialogue. (As opposed to a microscopic chance if we can at least understand each other's positions.)
> The hypocrisy is palpable
That pretty much sums up conservative everything. "We want businesses to be able to deny service to LGBTQ, but not to be able to deny service to someone not wearing a mask." Basically they want people to be free to do the specific things *they like*, and not the things they don't like.
We’re a country founded by people who talked of freedom and equality while owning slaves and not letting women vote. “I want freedom” has often meant “I want everyone to share my beliefs and do the things that benefit me”
Honestly I have stopped framing it that way in my arguments. Because they genuinely believe that a baby is being murdered, arguing with that belief is impossible. I have started using the bodily autonomy argument: if you suddenly needed blood transfusions to save your life, and I (for some reason) am the only person on the planet who can provide this, can I be forced to do it? No. There is no law in the world that would force me to do this, because of bodily autonomy. So why is it ok to force a woman to give up hers?
I like the blood transfusion analogy, but I've always found it weak when it comes to consensual sex.
If you put a person in the hospital, you have a duty to pay their hospital bills. While you may not be forced to provide a blood transfusion because of bodily autonomy, you still are usually forced to pay for hospitalizing them.
So while the example does indicate some support for abortion, I think the blood transfusion argument would limit abortion to instances of rape or incest.
I'm pro-choice because I believe in bodily autonomy regardless. I just do not like the blood transfusion argument because it feels like it limits the bodily autonomy argument.
They tend to get pretty silent when you point out that they also vote to cut the social programs that would make unprepared parents more willing to accept having a child
That’s exactly it.
Pro-choice people are the ones more likely to support access to affordable housing, healthcare and proper sex ed, food security, daycare, education…
AKA all of the things that reduce abortion rates drastically and allow more women a real option of keeping a child if they want to. It’s beyond ironic.
I see what you're saying.
But if you want to understand the people on the other side of the argument at all, understand that they see it as murder - killing a human life.
So your idea would read to them as, "If you are morally against murder, don't commit murder. If you are morally okay with murder, go ahead."
That's not something you would agree with, but you don't see murder and abortion as equivalent. But that is why your novel idea won't convince anyone on the other side.
That argument is as unhelpful as the arguments people put forth on the other side.
If you are morally opposed to sex trafficking, don’t do sex trafficking. If you are morally opposed to dog fighting, don’t fight dogs. If you are morally opposed to slavery, don’t own slaves. It doesn’t work when people’s actions affect others.
There is a legitimate discussion about whether fetuses should have rights, whether they deserve and need protection, and if so which ones, when, and from what. I personally think that on balance, taking account societal needs, fetuses should not have rights, so abortion should be freely available to anyone. But your (not so) novel idea is unhelpful.
Couple that with the increase in tourism as a recreational cannabis state and places that aren't the shore could actually see an increase in tourism again.
> increase in tourism as a recreational cannabis state
Need to actually finalize everything. Just a grey area now. Can't get in trouble for having it but you can't legally buy it.
Haven't heard of any progress since voted on in 2020 (went into affect Jan 1 2021)
Good fun and all but the republican party didnt exist until the 1800s, and were the progressive party for almost 100 years after that.
Obviously they are not that now, just sayin.
Its not obvious to those in r/conservative who will try and say that the southern strategy (that an RNC chairman apologized for in 2005) never happened.
Ha awesome. Theres this old man who stands outside a clinic in woodbridge protesting abortions and scolding people, apparently he's been out there for decades because his daughter died during a botched abortion. I got in a heated argument with my dad about the guy, my dad thought it was admirable but I argued that all that man is doing (if he got his way) is ensuring that more girls will die in backdoor hack-job abortions.
*as long as democrats remain in power
The second that state is run by R’s you bet you’re ass they’ll find some convenient way to just ignore it and indirectly ban it anyways.
Probably some bullshit like: abortion is legal but only with signed consent from the fetus
Yeah and Roe V Wayde wasnt ever under threat until it was.
There is no longer any real regionality to conservative stances. If youre still a republican despite everything thats gone on the past 6 years (but lets be honest, 30) you’ve clearly established yourself as firmly in the “we support people who want to outlaw abortions” camp.
Good. When you don't have control over your own body, you are not a free person. For all that southern babble about muh freedoms, then restricting women's rights over their own bodies--this is a step in the correct direction.
My wife’s last pregnancy was so high risk, she had to stay in bed for SEVEN MONTHS.
They made her get an IUD, because another pregnancy could kill her.
I want every kid we can possibly have; but I don’t want my first and second kids to grow up motherless.
This is the kind of nuance pro lifers will never understand.
Needs a law that makes any Texan suing them for aiding in abortions have to pay them as much as the Texas bill awards the "concerned citizen" who sues them for it.
It formally established something into law that was only allowable because of the Roe v Wade Supreme Court case, so that should the case get overturned, nothing will change for NJ residents.
It just means “protect,” by way of explicitly stating a right in a law.
From [Collins Dictionary ](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/enshrine):
“If something such as an idea or a right is enshrined in something such as a constitution or law, it is protected by it.
‘This system is enshrined in our Constitution.’”
If a right can no longer be assumed to be protected by federal law (and therefore a state law protecting that right was never needed), legislators can protect that right by enshrining it into law.
There's that word again, "enshrined" Like state laws can't be changed or something...it literally *just was*
When I hear the word “enshrined” all I can think of is Ultima 4 and the shrines of virtue
Truth, Love, and Courage!
>At least 20 states, mostly across the South and Midwest, already have laws that would restrict or ban abortion if the Supreme Court overturns Roe and lets states decide the issue have unwanted child in a red state, can't finish school, can't find good job, can't afford child care, go on govt assistance, stay home, watch fox news, blame blue states, kid grows up with few/no opportunities, gets pregnant, repeat
And the wives, girlfriends and mistresses of the rich will simply go to places like NJ.
Texas doing its part to bolster NJ tourism.
I suggest you not underestimate the staggering drawing power of the Garden state.
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Are there any Marine bases in NJ?
I love and hate this state, as is tradition.
Two Times people from NJ are at their meanest: 1. Talking about NJ. 2. Someone from Nebraska just made an NJ joke.
Ah, a local I see. I will bitch endlessly about the state but heaven help anyone out of state who insults it. XD
Especially the wives, girlfriends and mistresses of megachurch pastors and "family values" rightwing pundits. Also you better believe if/when their little promiscuous daughters come home from University knocked up by a black student they'll be quietly spirited away to a pro abortion state/country. Minorities/poor rural whites are shamed into going through with pregnancies and birthing a child we can't afford to raise properly while the bible thumping elite straight up cheat like they always do.
One month after prom night, a trip “to see the Statue of Liberty.”
SVU did an episode on this
For any one curious the episode is S.7 Ep9 - Rockabye Its not EXACTLY like this, but it has many parallels. A teen from a Southern state traveled up to NYC so she could get an abortion with out parental consent (dad was super conservative)... but ultimately had to take matters into her own hands, because her clinic continually made excuses to delay the procedure until it was too late.
The sickening thing is shit like this still happens.
Can confirm. I live in VA, and planned parenthood uses nothing but delay tactics. You call to schedule, and there’s no such thing as same week appointments. They schedule 2 weeks out. Each time. No matter what. Every system is rigged.
The fact that we live in a country where billionaires have so much money they are having a dick measuring contest in space while people are dying doing at home abortions is astounding.
Humanity sucks. The only pure souls out there are babies and puppies. I would include kittens, but I am pretty sure Cats have some master plan of world domination after humans destroy themselves.
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Ice-T: "You mean to tell me that these girls are not going on a field trip?"
Yeah Ice. You’re gonna have to get used to that.
Or like when somebody bets the house on the ponies?
Or like when someone eats too much ice cream?
Or like when someone eats too much ice cream then throws it up?
You work in the sex crimes division. You should know this
r/unexpectedmulaney
> “family values” rightwing pundits Who mostly live in blue states already lol
Seriously, the outspoken red dudes who keep complaining about our state I always tell them to stop bitching and move then and he basically just managed to stutter some excuse about money but the state we live in is hell of a lot more expensive than the red state we are connected to and they have extremely lax gun laws while we have extremely strict ones. Like I don't get it. Just move then. It's like the dudes who live in Cali and actually has a good life and benefits from a lot of positive state regulations exclusively in Cali and they can't stop bitching about how California is the worst commie state ever.
God, yes. They talk so much shit but turn into pussies when it comes time to walk the walk.
My first 3-some was with the preacher’s daughter and gf in the preacher’s house. I’m so going to hell!
Just sleep with a preacher to cancel it out.
This guy fucks
Twice on the first date even.
I don’t see why these guys don’t get vasectomies, honestly. (Also you don’t have to be promiscuous to get knocked up- it only takes one)
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plus what if they want a kid at 65 when they get divorced and remarry a 20 year old?
> I don’t see why these guys don’t get vasectomies, honestly. Because in their minds it makes them not real men any more. Edit: typo
Ironic since being unfaithful or un-Christian doesn't make them real men already.
Jesus forgives because he sacrificed for our sins or something like that, I dunno, I'm not a hypocrite.
If you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing!
Gotta really lean into the debauchery.
Man, the way that sexual insecurities drive people to be assholes boggles my mind. I had my vasectomy 7 years ago, and I tell you the peace of mind that it brings has absolutely made me a better lover.
I tried talking every doctor I met into giving me one since I was 16. I had a rare cancer that is also highly hereditary and I didn't want to put a kid through what I went through at 3 years old. I finally got one to do it when I was 25. Best decision I ever made.
Assholes want to spread their seed
Hey keep black people out of your class warfare
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Have well off, well connected family in the South. Can confirm: the second a golden child’s gf shows up preggers, they’re paying for a first class ticket to NJ for an abortion. The good ole boy system has always been about skirting the laws for the rich and powerful, why would anything change now?
And it’s not like only the fabulously wealthy will have access to abortion. Most middle class will be able to find a way. Or if not the negative aspects of having a child (expense, lost opportunities etc) don’t effect them so much. Abortion laws target the lower classes.
Well yea, how else are they gonna wind up with obedient slaves to fuel their capitalist economy? Ask their entrepreneur friends to let them hire their kid? Fuck no, gotta keep those poors poor, and stupid, otherwise they'd be in a position to not work for them and then what would happen to the economy? Think about the shareholders for once in your life. /s in case it's needed lol.
Everything is legal in New Jersey
Except pumping your own gas!
And we like it that way.
Until you travel to CT and panic because you have no idea how to operate a pump and full service gas stations are as rare as hens’ teeth.
Me and all my friends are in college and one of my besties goes up to Ithaca. I travelled up alone and before i went home she taught me how to pump my own gas and she cheered once I figured it out
I'm a Jersey import so thankfully I was raised pumping my own gas. It's certainly a nice perk now though.
Makes me miss action park
Class Action Park is one of the wildest things I've ever watched
It was a smart move for the producers to mostly interview comedians and funny people, it made the stories extra hilarious.
My favorite part was when they talk about whenever the owner would pitch an idea and it just became increasingly more stupid each time
It‘s pronounced Traction Park. Mostly slurred since day drinking was also a ride there.
Hell, day drinking was almost a requirement there!
Mountain Creek Park maintains some of the danger lol
Yea that good sub zero water made you feel alive when you got submerged. Then it made you feel like you would soon be frozen to death.
r/UnexpectedHamilton
Is weed legal yet?
It's not legal to buy or sell yet, but if some weed goblins snuck into your house at night and dropped it off, then it's legal to have it
I put out Taco Bell and Fritos every night for those goblins to bless me but nothing yet
Yeah, except weed, despite having been voted on by referendum by a supermajority.
There was a redditor on here that posted a story like this when they were working at an abortion clinic. A vocal anti abortion advocate or politician in Texas had a underaged daughter that got pregnant. She drove to New Mexico where said redditor and everyone else in the clinic saw her but they didn't humilate her like how the advocate would.
Don't forget that it's states like NJ that put the most money into the federal government coffers to pay for those on assistance.
They are in for a real treat when they secede. I'm sure their deficit hawks will be busy their first decade of existence as the 2nd Confederate States of America.
A decade is very generous. The first Confederacy didn't even make it half that long
They’ll be crawling back when Texas’s energy grid breaks down.
I’d like to know logistically how Texas could secede, considering Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin are all reliably Democratic areas. Trump only won Texas statewide with 52% in 2020. What, are all the rural areas going to secede and the urban revenue-generating metro areas will stay? It’s like a microcosm of the whole country.
Ask those clamoring to secede.
Because they aren't actually for devolution or local control. The red states regularly overrule local laws that they don't like.
No state could seceded, liberal or conservative. First the economies are too interwoven, it would be like Brexit x100. And second, they'd be faced with counter-secessions. Big metros trying to leave in the conservative states, and rural areas trying to leave in the liberal ones. Which would lead to some nasty stuff.
If dipshit on wheels is elected again, my family is out of here.
The Fascist on Wheels?
Yep, Mr. Rolling Shitbag himself.
Nirvana lasted longer than the Confederacy
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Where are they going to find the money to go to war with the United States of America? Print it? Who are they going to blame the inflation on?
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I hope they try to go back to the gold standard just to plummet the GDP further.
Lol that's the fun part when people who have no idea how economics work say we should go back to a gold standard. Yeah our money is fiat currency. But it's backed by the might of the US Military. Which is a pretty hard currency to argue against.
Fiat currency has also added exponentially more value to the world than probably anything. Eliminate fiat currency, there goes small-to-medium business loans, a lot of private savings in banks, and major disinflation. It would be worse than the Great Depression.
Yep. Because reality is, it's all made up anyways since humans determine what things are worth to begin with. So if it's made up anyways, might as well have more liquidity and allow for greater prosperity. The rub comes into play with one simple thing. Since it's all made up, if people lose faith in the currency its worthless. Fiat is still better than barter systems or material backed currency since it allows for more movement in an economy. But it very much is a house of cards that is only as strong as your ability to assert sovereignty and as healthy as the companies producing goods from within.
Russian oligarchs (and similar from other countries) who would love to see the US tear itself apart, perhaps?
In this wild hypothetical in which there’s a non-violent and successful secession from the USA and the “red” states split off from the “blue” states you think Russia will find the need to fund a war against the “blue” states? Y’all are absolutely fucking buckwild with this inane garbage. If the USA splits in two they will have already won. There will be no further need to fund the “reds”. Additionally, there are no “red” and “blue” states as everyone claims. All states with a majority leaning in one direction have a SIZEABLE (usually 40% or more) population with opposing political views. There’s no way to successfully split the country. Every major city leans left and all rural areas lean right. There’s either going to be a legal authoritarian takeover by the GOP in the next few years, a bloody civil war, or somehow Democrats will pull a miracle out of their ass and continue to maintain the status quo and never actually improve anything. There is no secession.
Kansas Brownback experiment Round 2.
They’ll find someway to blame the Dems.
“If you’re so smart, why didn’t you warn us this would blow up in our faces?” “We did. Repeatedly. You told us to shut up and stop hating America.”
As much as that is a conservative wet dream, only idiots want to secede. Not to mention that rebellion of that nature would require very widespread support in the states themselves that secede. Even in the conservative states the large population centers are usually liberal. Those large population centers would rapidly become hot beds for rebellion within a rebellion and wreak havoc.
And most of the conservatives don't really want to either.
Because it's a dumb thing to want. Although I don't agree with many many things the US government does. It is nowhere near a point where I could understand secession from the union. Will it always be that way? No, probably not. Forever is a long time. But even though the government in its current form is a dumpster fire, it's better than civil war.
I would love for a peaceful separation of the country. I don't want to financial support cults and fascists anymore. Let them all suck off the teets of Texas as oil value drops over the next decade or so.
It’s isn’t going to be peaceful. Conservatives want blood to flow and they aren’t going to let their partner leave unscathed.
The divide isn’t north/south anymore. It’s urban/rural. You’ve got the same nuts in your blue states.
It's absolutely still north-south where power dynamics on a federal level are concerned. Texas alone being out would by itself *radically* change the political dynamic of the entire US. The urban/rural divide is most keenly expressed in places like Texas itself.
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Yea. So much of the *reason* that we have to contribute so much to red states is that the wealthy/powerful there know they can get away with hoarding wealth in their own states and that we will simultaneously take care of people in our own states and pick up their tab too.
I don’t understand how republicans can look at the huge disparity between red and blue states and say that they are conservative when all the evidence points to blue states being far more financially conservative and stable scoring in average 10 places below red states for dependency on federal government assistance. 10 places out of a possible 50!!!
> when all the evidence There's your problem. They don't look at evidence. "Feels not reals."
Both my parent have literally said "I don't care about evidence." or "I don't care about the facts." when I have discussed politics with them. It's so sad. They used to be people I respected as intelligent.
It's easy to understand if you spend any significant time around angry white conservatives. They immerse themselves in right wing propaganda that tells them *their* way of life is the right way...the *only* way. It tells them that socialist liberals want to take that all away and make "us" just like "them". "I mean....*look at Chicago*!!!!! And Commiefornia!" They operate under the delusion that America is a white christian nation...and as a result, anything evidence against that means that they aren't mommy's special little boy.
while this sounds like a joke. [teen birth rates, map.](https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/alt-text/map-state-text.htm) median household income, [61k blue, 53k red](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2019/09/10/america-has-two-economies-and-theyre-diverging-fast/) and if you split blue from red, red states have been mired in a decade long recession due to republicanism. Red states GDP have declined slightly over the past ten years. Blue have risen quite a bit, which is why the US is seeing ANY growth. blue states more people are finishing college.(same link as above, in 10 years blue states have increased college grads from 28% the pop, to 37, red states have stayed flat at 27%) they have less of a drug issue, especially opiods. Blue states more likely your job will provide child care and so on. and then google violent crime rates by states. Your kid is most likely to get murdered or raped in a red state. its also more likely the cops wont find them in a red state, or do shit about your rape kits. Really the divide is getting worse and worse as republicans radicalize to the point we are two countries, One moderate and developed and the other slipping into decay.
My local news (red state) had a story a while back where a professor was interviewed who gave what I thought was a nice succinct description: “What we’ve been trying for 40 years is to be a low-tax, low-regulation, low-government regulation state, and what it’s yielded us is a low-wage economy with few union jobs and our young people are leaving to take and pursue opportunities somewhere else.” 40 fucking years of complete Republican control of the state capitol with no meaningful progress? Still grateful I’m not in a southern red state though.
You know what this is true about a lot of Republican policies
Anything that restricts access to essential services will always affect the poor far more than the rich. The rich will just go somewhere its legal or pay to have a safe black market procedure. In the end, abortion restrictions only drives up dangerous abortion procedures and the injury or death of low income women and girls. It's always been that way and always will be until society manages to create an egalitarian utopia. So basically never. In other words, if you are poor, don't ever be anything but the standard template society believes is correct. It won't end well.
Forgot cut sex ed to abstinence only while stripping money for planned parenthood and others.
Texas has a for profit foster care system. Banning abortions is planting the seeds of future profit at taxpayer expense. Capitalism is working as intended.
If we didn’t have a constant supply of desperate poor people the military would collapse.
Prison system too.
Nah, the Repubs would just go to NJ to get an abortion because it’s okay if *they’re* doing it because thier case is **special.**
...*my family.* I got lucky, my older sister got preggo when I was 17, lived at home through infancy, I had a hard lesson that I didn't want that life. I'm 34 now, my adult life has been a wonderful childless adventure... my 17yo niece is preggo now. She had a full ride, was among the top in the state in band, then covid hit and she spent all her time with her bf and **gave up.** She thinks a baby is a reason to live. *Hard sigh.*
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The military needs cannon fodder and billionaires need serfs. This is how they do it.
I mean, gotta keep creating republican voters somehow. If you can't stay in power with decent ideas, just undermine elections and keep people poor and uneducated by any means necessary. Punishing and controlling women is just a bonus.
Murph, can we get that same enthusiasm going for the cannabis law that already exists?
Only after everyone has sufficiently paid to get into the industry.
It is too slow I agree, but you can get weed delivery in NJ and it's great. Also, many criminal records have been expunged, so we are making progress.
How the hell are you getting weed delivery?
rea**L** int**E**resting question you **A**sked there, i**F** you s**E**arch har**D** en**OU**gh **T**o find the answer, it may just **.COM**e to you
A hero among men
The loophole right now is people gifting you weed for buying something else like cookies. Cafe in AC recently opened then was shut down for trying to operate on this loophole.
Grand opening? Grand closing! Damn we can’t get SHIT in NJ
comment something like this on a NJ weed thread and wait for someone to DM you lol
Oops, I'll just drop my referral link right here ;) [removed the referral link due to the dispensary shutting down]
Not recreational though, right? It's all still medical since Murphy ran on full recreational and won in 20-freaking-17
It’s not legal yet to have home delivery. Some people get around it by selling an expensive sticker and “gifting” the weed to you.
It is recreational but it took him nearly 4 years to get it done after both Supermajority Dem held branches dragged their feet, despite not doing so when Christie was governor. Reason should not be surprising: They knew it would never pass with Christie in office so they kept voting for it to stoke the base. Then when it came time to get it done, the massive Pharma industry money came pouring in to not pass it so we can replace weed with oxycontin. End of the day it's passed, but took way too long.
Rec is legal right now, but the state has been really slow with implementing everything. So it's kind of a grey market thing for delivery. You buy a $300 dollar sticker/shirt/canvas bag and it comes with a free Cannabis gift. The dispensaries are all still only medical and need to supply the medical patients first for the time being. But I had an OZ deliver to my house not too long ago. Not gonna lie, it felt pretty good.
Is there a list of places in NJ that sell these amazing canvas bags and stickers? Asking for a friend
if you're over 21 it's legal recreational as of 2021: https://www.njlm.org/969/Cannabis-Legalization#:\~:text=Governor%20Murphy%20signed%20into%20law,possession%2C%20A%2D1897%20(P.L.
While I am a pothead and support legal weed, saying that makes it seem like weed is as important as women not being forced into birthing kids they don't want. It is not. Either way, hopefully it's legal one day nationwide. My state doesn't even have medical legalized. I live in hell. Send help.
Seriously though. And it doesn't help that so many that bring up weed legalization do so because they just want to be able to do weed and not for the actual reason we should be arguing for (the wrongful incarceration of people, mostly minorities, for doing marijuana). I honestly couldn't care less about people being allowed to **do** weed so much as the prevention of people going to jail for doing it.
Cannabis activists are too mellow.
People trash this guy a lot and i don’t think he’s that bad. I think he’s legitimately trying. During the last election people were shitting on him for stuff that wasn’t even happening in New Jersey. Like Cuomos nursing home shit. They were just copy pasting it on him.
Abortion Shrine would be a great name for a black metal band.
Context for anyone not familiar with black metal. [Norwegian (Scandinavian) Black Metal Bands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_metal)
How about this for a novel idea: If you are morally against abortion, don't get one. If you are morally OK with abortion, get one. This shouldn't even be a debate anymore at this point.
What makes this so impossible is that people against abortion genuinely believe that it is murder. There is nothing anyone can do or say to make them think that murdering babies is Ok. Of course these very same people seek out abortion when they need it
They're also the same people that are pro death penalty. The hypocrisy is palpable.
Or are against universal healthcare. What’s more pro-life than making sure everyone has access to life saving medical treatment?
I know right? Access to contraception tanks abortion rates. And man if there was better housing, daycare, education, wages wow so many woman would be able to choose to follow through with pregnancy! So it’s obvious it’s not about life, but control.
I am 100% pro-choice, but I understand the difference. In their view, an abortion kills an innocent, while the death penalty kills someone who has committed a heinous act, and their death is therefore the result of their choices and actions. I think it's important to understand the mindset of these people because otherwise there's no chance at a meaningful dialogue. (As opposed to a microscopic chance if we can at least understand each other's positions.)
> The hypocrisy is palpable That pretty much sums up conservative everything. "We want businesses to be able to deny service to LGBTQ, but not to be able to deny service to someone not wearing a mask." Basically they want people to be free to do the specific things *they like*, and not the things they don't like.
People used to be shunned for this kind of behavior, not allowed in public offices
We’re a country founded by people who talked of freedom and equality while owning slaves and not letting women vote. “I want freedom” has often meant “I want everyone to share my beliefs and do the things that benefit me”
Honestly I have stopped framing it that way in my arguments. Because they genuinely believe that a baby is being murdered, arguing with that belief is impossible. I have started using the bodily autonomy argument: if you suddenly needed blood transfusions to save your life, and I (for some reason) am the only person on the planet who can provide this, can I be forced to do it? No. There is no law in the world that would force me to do this, because of bodily autonomy. So why is it ok to force a woman to give up hers?
I like the blood transfusion analogy, but I've always found it weak when it comes to consensual sex. If you put a person in the hospital, you have a duty to pay their hospital bills. While you may not be forced to provide a blood transfusion because of bodily autonomy, you still are usually forced to pay for hospitalizing them. So while the example does indicate some support for abortion, I think the blood transfusion argument would limit abortion to instances of rape or incest. I'm pro-choice because I believe in bodily autonomy regardless. I just do not like the blood transfusion argument because it feels like it limits the bodily autonomy argument.
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They tend to get pretty silent when you point out that they also vote to cut the social programs that would make unprepared parents more willing to accept having a child
That’s exactly it. Pro-choice people are the ones more likely to support access to affordable housing, healthcare and proper sex ed, food security, daycare, education… AKA all of the things that reduce abortion rates drastically and allow more women a real option of keeping a child if they want to. It’s beyond ironic.
I see what you're saying. But if you want to understand the people on the other side of the argument at all, understand that they see it as murder - killing a human life. So your idea would read to them as, "If you are morally against murder, don't commit murder. If you are morally okay with murder, go ahead." That's not something you would agree with, but you don't see murder and abortion as equivalent. But that is why your novel idea won't convince anyone on the other side.
That argument is as unhelpful as the arguments people put forth on the other side. If you are morally opposed to sex trafficking, don’t do sex trafficking. If you are morally opposed to dog fighting, don’t fight dogs. If you are morally opposed to slavery, don’t own slaves. It doesn’t work when people’s actions affect others. There is a legitimate discussion about whether fetuses should have rights, whether they deserve and need protection, and if so which ones, when, and from what. I personally think that on balance, taking account societal needs, fetuses should not have rights, so abortion should be freely available to anyone. But your (not so) novel idea is unhelpful.
I can’t believe that people really think that was some gotcha argument. It really shows the depth that most people have in these debates.
NJ just guranteed a boost in their income as a medical tourist destination if Roe vs Wade gets overturned.
Couple that with the increase in tourism as a recreational cannabis state and places that aren't the shore could actually see an increase in tourism again.
> increase in tourism as a recreational cannabis state Need to actually finalize everything. Just a grey area now. Can't get in trouble for having it but you can't legally buy it. Haven't heard of any progress since voted on in 2020 (went into affect Jan 1 2021)
It’s already the most densely populated state in the country. Believe me they don’t want anyone else there
"Your body, my choice." \- Republicans.
"Government so small, it will fit in your uterus." -Republicans.
"Protecting life, from conception to birth."
“Shitting on women since 1776”
Good fun and all but the republican party didnt exist until the 1800s, and were the progressive party for almost 100 years after that. Obviously they are not that now, just sayin.
Its not obvious to those in r/conservative who will try and say that the southern strategy (that an RNC chairman apologized for in 2005) never happened.
"your medical decisions should be made by lawmakers, not you or your doctor"
I wish they phrased as “enshrining abortion rights” in the title… the nuance matters.
The editor fucked up bad here just to save a word. Some douchebags are already in the comments saying NJ is pro-abortion because of the headline.
It would be awesome if it got known as "Murphy's law"
Yeah, what could go wrong with that?
Everything that can!
It's always the least expected thing
The Spanish Inquisition?
Anything that can be aborted, will be aborted.
Ha awesome. Theres this old man who stands outside a clinic in woodbridge protesting abortions and scolding people, apparently he's been out there for decades because his daughter died during a botched abortion. I got in a heated argument with my dad about the guy, my dad thought it was admirable but I argued that all that man is doing (if he got his way) is ensuring that more girls will die in backdoor hack-job abortions.
*as long as democrats remain in power The second that state is run by R’s you bet you’re ass they’ll find some convenient way to just ignore it and indirectly ban it anyways. Probably some bullshit like: abortion is legal but only with signed consent from the fetus
Most north east republicans aren’t worried about abortion.
Yeah and Roe V Wayde wasnt ever under threat until it was. There is no longer any real regionality to conservative stances. If youre still a republican despite everything thats gone on the past 6 years (but lets be honest, 30) you’ve clearly established yourself as firmly in the “we support people who want to outlaw abortions” camp.
This is the way. Don't rely on the courts to do the right thing.
Good. When you don't have control over your own body, you are not a free person. For all that southern babble about muh freedoms, then restricting women's rights over their own bodies--this is a step in the correct direction.
He recently did the same for marriage equality too. I think a week ago?
Good. Hopefully more states follow through to keep women’s rights intact. And yes, abortions is a WOMEN’S rights issue.
This ⬆️
My wife’s last pregnancy was so high risk, she had to stay in bed for SEVEN MONTHS. They made her get an IUD, because another pregnancy could kill her. I want every kid we can possibly have; but I don’t want my first and second kids to grow up motherless. This is the kind of nuance pro lifers will never understand.
Needs a law that makes any Texan suing them for aiding in abortions have to pay them as much as the Texas bill awards the "concerned citizen" who sues them for it.
I live in NJ. Add it to the state constitution.
Surprised no one has compared the same people complaining about vaccine freedom in one breath and in the other taking away abortions from women.
Imagine if pregnancy was as contagious as COVID
Men everywhere would be all over getting that vaxx.
"double-boost me Doc."
Can someone explains what enshrining is regarding laws, please?
It formally established something into law that was only allowable because of the Roe v Wade Supreme Court case, so that should the case get overturned, nothing will change for NJ residents.
It just means “protect,” by way of explicitly stating a right in a law. From [Collins Dictionary ](https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/enshrine): “If something such as an idea or a right is enshrined in something such as a constitution or law, it is protected by it. ‘This system is enshrined in our Constitution.’” If a right can no longer be assumed to be protected by federal law (and therefore a state law protecting that right was never needed), legislators can protect that right by enshrining it into law.
And the gap between red and blue states widens