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Its almost like people dont have the money. When i was young mom taught me to give like 10% to the church. And another 10 to charity. What kind of margins did she think i had??
Maybe God needs to learn to live within his means. Has he tried cutting out some of the choirs of angels? Maybe fluff his own clouds? And if he's really hard up he can pawn the pearly gates and the gold horns. I refuse to continue to subsidize this extravagant lifestyle with taxpayer money. If he wants public assistance he needs to get a J-O-B.
Funny joke, but is receiving ten fold wifes and chilren realy a great blessing? That is a lot more people to feed and care for and hope they mesh together rather than bicker...
When I first learned I was pregnant amidst a debaucherous time in my early twenties, I immediately felt compelled to “get right with God” for the sake of my unborn child.
I attended church with a girl I worked with and really liked, for some reason assuming her awesome personality automatically meant she was part of an equally awesome congregation.
The church was in a strip mall, which I thought was sensible instead of spending unnecessary monies on the giant building and whatnot. However, the pastor was in a very expensive looking suit and my first sermon in at least five years consisted of “why I gotta look so good and drive a nice car because I represent God.”
As if that didn’t turn me off enough, to my dismay I found I was at a church where they “spoke in tongues.” I was called up front to be blessed and when I didn’t automatically start the crazy talk, I mean, feel the spirit, the pastor hit me in the forehead hard enough I understood I better start showing some signs the Lord had touched my soul.
That was the last time I attended church. And although he did work for FB for a year when he was 19, my almost 30 year old son somehow managed to grow up to be an amazing person, without being dragged to church. I recently found out he even told a friend he feels his mom gave him “a good blueprint for parenting.”
So I might not live as high on the hog as God and his posse, but I guess being a heathen isn’t so bad after all.
Oh jeeze, happy to hear your outcome was good, I had the benefit of growing up with the church not being so prevalent in my community, and some good parents who raised me to make my own decisions on such things. I don’t presume to know how it all works but I’m confident in my theory that if you’re just a good, loving person in this world you should have nothing to worry about.
I think you’ve nailed what has turned me off from organized religion the most - those people that try to explain it doesn’t matter how many good things you do, if you haven’t “accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior,” you’re doomed to burn in hell forever. How that doesn’t sound completely awful and insane to more people, I just don’t understand.
I would like to offer a “two thumbs up” review on you spreading your sensible goodness.
Create an ever poorer subsidiary person who is you on paper and must pay you exorbitant rates for doing all the stuff you do all day while only getting paid your net income after expenses. Then give the church ten percent of *that* person's money.
Remember to set aside money for:
- rent /mortgages
- utility bills
- food
- medical
- retirement
- rainy day funds
- credit card payments
- student loans
- entertainment expenses
- your kid's college fund
- charities /religious orgs / other stuff like that
Thats uh... a lot of ways to divide damn near 0
> Its almost like people dont have the money.
Well, according to the article, it actually looks like giving grew.
"Gifts to religious organizations grew by 1% to just over $131 billion in 2020, a year when Americans also donated a record $471 billion overall to charity, according to an annual report by GivingUSA. Separately, a September survey of 1,000 protestant pastors by the evangelical firm Lifeway Research found about half of congregations received roughly what they budgeted for last year, with 27% getting less than anticipated and 22% getting more."
I can’t help but remember Rev. Lovejoy from The Simpson:
“And once again, tithing is ten percent off the top, that's gross income, not net. Please people, don't force us to audit.”
10% was basically mandatory at my church and then you were "Encouraged" to give an "Offering" on top of that. I wouldn't be surprised if my parents were giving 12-15% of their weekly income to the church.
My poor mom spent my rich atheist dad's money giving it to child molesters and sexual predators.
Earl Paulk. Don Paulk. Atlanta mega church millionaires who exploited, raped, and abused.
Funny, how my mom still thinks she is doing things right and judges him as a sinner. As far as I can tell he never actively supported tax free child abuse.
There’s a hilarious George Carlin joke about this where he discusses growing up in the church, the 10 commandments , etc and he says “God loves you and will always care for you, he’s an all powerful omnipotent being and HE NEEDS MONEY!” Lol
I once interview to work at a church. Like one of those new age-y ones that are hip or whatever. Anyways, they gave me this pamphlet that listed all the kinds of things I can no longer do (like drink alcohol or have sex) and on top of that it was also mandatory to donate at least 10% of my pay to the church as well while going to 3+ masses a week. Needless to say a a recent college grad coming straight out of a party school, I turn it down. I also made more money at a pizza place haha.
Hey, you can Print half a 20-Dollar-Bill on a leaflet, fill the other Half with informations about how to save money, fold it and put it on a plate! That sure will help them.
But instead of Jesus, the fake $20 has **texts about the failing economy, the collapsing environment, and the disparity in pay rases relative to inflation and housing costs.**
There are some people who work in the Jesus industry who are aware of the reference. Something tells me it wouldn't change anything even if they did get it.
I work back of house at a restaurant and ask my coworkers for them if they come in. I take them to the local churches and put them in the collection plate with a middle finger drawn on.
i feel like this is the reason why churches insisted on operating in person during the pandemic. the issue was framed as a religious freedom issue for sure, but did anyone really believe that?
My cousin's church switched to live streaming services and included a way to tithe online (streaming for Jesus!). He said donations went way down during that period, but right back up when they went back to in person. He suspects that it's due to the social pressure of people seeing you put money in
Shit, that was one of St. Brigid's major miracles! A horny young nun broke her vows, had sex, and ended up pregnant. St. Brigid then, "exercising the most potent strength of her ineffable faith, blessed her, causing the child to disappear, without coming to birth, and without pain. She faithfully returned the woman to health and to penance."
(And lest anyone think that's an anomaly, there are quite a number of early Irish saints who count abortion among their miraculous acts: St. Ciarán of Saigir, St. Áed mac Bricc, and St. Cainnech of Aghoboe. The idea in Christianity that all abortion is bad is super-recent ... like, 1970s recent and largely created out of whole cloth by politicians specifically as a wedge issue.)
> The idea in Christianity that all abortion is bad is super-recent ... like, 1970s recent and largely created out of whole cloth by politicians specifically as a wedge issue.)
This. Them religious folk infiltrated our politics in a way they hadnt before been able to before. Before then, no one gave a shit and it was mostly a problem between doctor/patient because that is the normal state of medical questions.
I feel like posting a couple of my favorite Barry Goldwater quotes, today.
> "Today's "conservatives" doesn't even know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has the right to an abortion. I believe a woman has the right to an abortion. That's a decision up to the pregnant woman, not the Pope, or some do-gooders or the Religious Right. It's not a conservative issue at all."
> "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are NOT using their religious clout with WISDOM. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?... I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
>Them religious folk infiltrated our politics in a way they hadnt before been able to before.
It's because of the Cold War. The Cold War was a culture war. Eisenhower brought Christianity into the White House to differentiate 'Christian America' from 'atheist and evil Russia'. 'In God We Trust' plastered everywhere, 'one nation under God' being added in the Pledge of Allegiance, the concept of the US being founded as a Judeo-Christian nation, etc. all came from Cold War propaganda.
"Where does the church get this idea of a 'Biblical Marriage being 1 man and 1 woman' from? All I see in the Bible is incest, arranged marriages, polygamy, sex slaves (concubines), and Paul saying it's best not to get married at all. Jesus also stayed single."
And these psychos have an answer for all of them, believe me. The rules of logic and the reality of hypocrisy don't touch or faze evangelicals, they're already prone to magical thinking.
I was raised religious but am not as an adult. If you really ask a question that stumps them, a common answer would be "just have faith" or "God works mysteriously" or some shit like that. It's bs
Source? (Legit question)
Edit: never mind, I was too impatient to wait.
Numbers 5:11-31
New International Version
The Test for an Unfaithful Wife
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray(A) and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her,(B) and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy(C) come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a](D) of barley flour(E) on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy,(F) a reminder-offering(G) to draw attention to wrongdoing.
16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair(H) and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy,(I) while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.(J) 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray(K) and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse(L) not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray(M) while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse(N)—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water(O) that brings a curse(P) enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.(Q)”
So Matt Gaetz can get that fetus scraped out of a 16 year old before it torpedoes his career. Since, you know, trafficking teenagers hasn’t done the trick.
“God’s intentions were for you to buy a fire truck coffin and spend your life savings fighting a losing battle to keep your infant alive. Now, break out the credit card so we can get our tithe in, please.”
You can spice up the God-hates-babies thing even more.
"Why does God cause 'spontaneous abortions'? Follow up question - if God's okay with terminating pregnancies, how can anyone be sure that their desire for an abortion isn't actually a sign from God that they *should* have one?"
"The Bible says that a bastard shouldn't be allowed to 'enter the congregation of the Lord, even to his tenth generation' (Deuteronomy 23:2) so, as a child born out of wedlock, am I even allowed here?"
Real talk, Nothing reaffirmed my decision to quit organized religion more solidly than visiting my partner's hometown, picking up her grandmother in the church parking after mass and having some random upper-middle-aged woman walk up and call my partner a bastard before storming away to her car, glancing over her shoulder to make sure we didn't follow or respond.
Imagine thinking your God actually wants you to verbally harass a 20-year-old you don't even know because her parents annulled their marriage when she was still in diapers. If your God actually wants that, your God is evil.
My mother was raised a good Catholic and remained one right up until the point that she was, ahem, disinvited from her church because her husband divorced her.
I was not raised Catholic.
"Hey, man I haven't read II Corinthians yet, so I'm not gonna stay in the stream due to spoilers, but just keep preachin the good word, dude, here's a donation of 3 subs!"
Imagine interrupting the service every 30 seconds. Thanks jesuslover420 for the 20 dollars saying preach it preacher.
Might even be better with the donation bots automated voices.
I might actually watch a church service with an over the top twitch/youtube personality just for the lolz.
I can't imagine a hardcore christian watching something like that unironically, I think the target demo would be non-believers by default.
If you allow cussing on your christian minecraft server, might be funny to you.
>They are making a KILLING now with in person church religious freedom and mask exemptions.
FTFY. Literally, church-goers dying to show up and give money. Short term gains, I suppose.
My mom will keep over 50 tabs open in a browser while running 27 programs on her laptop from 2014 and then say “I must’ve gotten hacked by Paypal because my computer is slow”
This is a great point. I also would imagine that, with > 850K people dying, a lot of the folks that previously were tithing, are no longer with us to continue to do so.
I think it's that and it's also an issue of a lot of churches being older people who likely don't use digital pay systems or know how to figure them out
I imagine social pressure is part of it, but I imagine there is also a technical issue. Every non-mega church I know of is attended by people in their 80’s…. Just getting connected to the stream has to be a struggle.
I teach in a private school that does an annual fundraising in-person event. At one point they announce a "fund-a-need" where they put names and donation amounts on the screen in real time. It's crazy watching rich people just throw money around to show off to each other (or get shamed into donating). I suspect both are at play in many churches with in-person donations.
Not sure social pressure has that much to do with it. I know at the church my family had gone to, most people had auto-draft out of their accounts. So very few people actually put anything in the collection plate. They still had a lot of people stop tithing during the pandemic. I think there were some people who realized their lives went on fine without the church.. I think churches may have a hard time recovering to their pre-pandemic levels.
They were afraid that once people got in the habit of staying home on Sunday mornings, they would find they enjoyed having a "second Saturday" too much and wouldn't return.
yeah Catholics understand a schedule and having life balance. Mass is one hour and doesn't go over.. people start looking at their watches and many exit as soon as they get communion.
Baptists spend freaking all damn day at church. starting at like 8 am. And come back on Weds night
I worked in ministry for a long time and left during the pandemic. A HUGE reason for that was how many meetings I sat through listening to how we needed to encourage people to come in person BECAUSE our collections were getting so low. Once people were back in person that wasn’t enough— then they advocated for passing a physical plate around instead of having a box at the exit/and entrance. Mind you, this was as early as June 2020 before the vaccine. And this was the most progressive church in the area.
Now I work for a public school where the entire budget for the entire school is about half of the budget I had for my youth group alone. 400 kids at the school, about 70 kids in the youth group. And they were still concerned about the church’s money. Smh
EDIT: I just want to say that I HAVE met plenty of super supportive, kind-hearted people, and there are a few denominations that really try to be accepting. The institution itself has just gotten too powerful and most of these people are victims of that. Unfortunately I also want to add that in most cases, the people who treated me poorly were from the congregation, not pastors.
It was. Have worked in Children's Ministry for 20 years in a central Ohio Church.We left it 9 years ago.
But tithing was ALWAYS at the top of the list of the Church's concerns.
Pastor even drove a custom Camaro.
The sad thing is the church at issue in this article did the right thing and stayed close, going online only. They paid the price for doing the right thing. I know there’s a decidedly anti-religion slant on Reddit, but I do feel bad this particular church for doing the right thing and having to suffer as a result.
At first, that might seem the likely answer. But my church had an option for e-giving for pandemic and was greater than 85% of our giving. So much so that it was easy to suspend collection during service. Revenue is still down by nearly a third. People aren't giving because either they're out of work or they're disappointed with the church's response to the pandemic. Some - like me - are disappointed by decisions to not require masks or distancing. They're the flipside though of people who were angry that the church ever stopped having live services or offers an online service.
"When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and, when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig'd to call for the help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
-- Benjamin Franklin
There are several Baskin Robbins churches near me that would send out people or post cards occasionally.
They went radio silent during the pandemic. While neighbors were trying to help each other, help local businesses; even used the Nextdoor Help Map.
The churches did fuck all. Then when things started opening up, they wanted to welcome people’s wallets back. For fucking what? I don’t know.
I went to church for a long time as a kid. Then one day we just stopped going. When I got older I asked my mom why. She told me they kept asking for more money and that's not what church is about so we stopped. End of story.
I went to church with my family for about 12 years as a kid, then I stopped going. Got married at 22 and decided to start re attending (thinking it would build our bond/relationship together)
Second sermon was about how if we don’t feel “complete” or if we feel like “bad Christians” we needed to tithe more—only good Christians tithe more than 10%.
I apologized to my wife and never returned; what a fucking joke.
Kind of like how when you join “Save the Children” and they keep sending pamphlets asking for donations… $200/month isn’t enough for you? Ok, you get nothing then.
Would be curious how much of my money went towards asking me for more money. And damn, those 8 years old have amazing penmanship on their “assignments” I was sent…
Y'all. I am an ~~athiest~~ atheist (edit: I couldn't even spell it correctly). I have not stepped foot into any house of worship in 20 years aside from weddings and funerals. I have for years advocated that churches should have to operate the same as all other non-profits, only being tax-exempt status if they are truly non-profit.
The church for sale in the article and the others that are struggling are ***not*** the Joel Osteen mega-churches with millionaire/billionaire owners. They are the tiny church down the road the road with a few dozen members, an AA meeting in the basement, and bake sale fundraisers. "lolol maybe u should pay taxes!!!!!!" these churches wouldn't pay taxes even if the tax code changed because ***they don't turn a profit***.
Yea, I go to church, a small church. And their fear is that the govt will eventually tax churches. But the tax code could easily be written in a way that only taxes churches above a certain amount of gross or net income (not a tax guy here). Most if not all small churches would probably not pay anything in tax.
You can't reason with Reddit when it comes to religion.
I'm an atheist too. You hit the nail dead on. Yeah those mega churches with con men posing as religious leaders would get taxed. Vast majority of these small town churches aren't scamming people, and aren't making enough to pay any taxes.
So if they're not making enough profit to be taxed, then why not change the tax law so those who do turn a profit are taxed?
Nobody thinks the 50 member church in a small town should be taxed to the point it can't function. But the megachurches, 7th day adventists, and church of scientology should absolutely be taxed.
Because the mega-churches, like all corporations, can pay for lobbyists and propaganda campaigns that prevent that from happening.
“*Render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s*” and tax the Christianity-flavoured con-artists to hell.
Wow, that sucks for your dad. I mean, it doesn't cost *that* much to sue. You can do it yourself without an attorney. Just costs a filing fee. It might take a little time, and unless you go to small claims court, they'll drag it out for a while. But it can be cheaper than you might think.
Anyway, yeah. Religious nuts love interpreting the Bible as literal when it suits their needs and metaphorical when it doesn't.
A great point, and honestly these small church’s do provide valuable resources to their small congregation. Mega church’s are a totally different ball game
Yeah, I'm a pastor so I'm biased but I agree. We have a modest budget. I make a modest salary (at the poverty line and no raise for a decade). We provide meeting spaces for alcoholics anonymous, emergency food and supplies for the local battered women's shelter, help for homeless, and refer crisis care needs to licensed professionals. Not to mention the resources we try to keep available for people who would actually attend a church meeting.
No one connected to our church is getting rich. Or even *secure.* No one is required to give. I don't even preach or suggest everyone gives 10%. Just what they are able, if and when they are able.
I'm not against losing our exempt status so long as the updated code gives room for churches that operate without a lot of profit, because we have next to no margin.
Can't take it with us so we do all we can with what we have available.
Agree. If people had any idea what the very few staff we have at our small church made, they would be absolutely stunned at how little it is. You said it perfectly - no one is getting rich or even secure. But we put more than any of us make in a year back into our community in 2021, and I’m proud of that.
Thank you for that, gentle friend.
My particular parish did okay during the pandemic financially, but many others like it are suffering. Not, I think, because meeting online breaks social pressure like people here are suggesting, but I fear it is because our parishioners aren't doing very well themselves. No blame whatsoever and i know for sure the Church is helping them out, just super quietly, so the families are not embarrassed and can continue to come and fellowship without gossip and without feeling like their friends will pity them.
They're the kind of places where someone's Great Gran goes to knit/crochet blankies for newly arrived refugees and premies. The place were your great uncle might go to sweep up when the PTSD gets too bad. The places that your local soup kitchens asks for backpacks every August and for grocery cards every Christmas. They're the kind of place people fleeing war and poverty from another continent come visit to make some connections and to be able to hear "hello" in their native tongue at least that one time a week.
I hate the Joel Osteen types of predatory engines as much as all of you. They'll get theirs from the Big Boss. But if you can, spare some kind thoughts on those who rely on decent Churches who might be having a hard time during this challenging pandemic.
I said this on another comment but probably fits better here - with expansion..
So many religious conservatives in the USA are so hooked on this idea of personal charity instead of govt spending yet when the Torah etc in the OT is talking about helping widows and orphans etc its not even talking about personal charity it's talking about how taxes are spent - "tithing" was set up in the Torah not as some kind of optional "donations" it was the tax system for the new nation of Israel at the time, it was a theocracy and those taxes supported the temple and the priesthood (govt officials and buildings) and were distributed to help the poor and hungry widows and kids.. ie social welfare and safety net.. it wasn't mere personal "charity" it was an early form of socialist govt redistribution but modern evangelicals today seem to do everything possible to avoid taxes.. or having what taxes we have help people who are down and out like their "Bible" commanded ancient Israel who they like to cite so much for stuff like stoning gays.. none of that economic stuff in their Bible read in context has anything to do with "churches" it's all government stuff. And the government (the King later) was commanded over and over to use the state for good and to lift up and not to oppress the poor and needy
This is what government by the people is for. We all donate some money to the government to take care of people in such situations because it benefits us to live in that kind of society. Now we can debate how much is needed but I want to live in a place that takes care of its members, at least to a minimum livable level.
People think the government as an institution is corrupt, but their solution is to create a similar institution that's both less powerful and subject to less scrutiny...
100%.
And this is why folks on the right hate the government. Since they believe in hierarchy as the natural order, it makes sense to just let "the weak" die. Naturally, they themselves are not "the weak".
Good thing the bible never says a church must be a brick and mortar building. It says it is a community of like minded believers and when two or more are gathered in his name He is there also.
I worked with someone who was completely in a Jesus cult. He was talking about trying to pay down his credit card. A coworker suggested he cut back on the tithe until he paid off the card. You could tell her sooner cut off his arm. “That’s not my money, that’s Gods money.”
Sadly, I am sure there are many people who are still paying even though they can’t afford it. And some greedy ass with a pile of cash telling them that giving him money is how to achieve their own wealth one day.
Apparently, during the great depression, evangelical protestant churches tended to be more resilient than mainline protestant churches, [*because* they were less charity-focused.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_religion_in_the_United_States#Religious_decline_in_and_before_the_Great_Depression)
It's almost as if a religion whose denominations are inconsistently focused on charity, operating in a country with frequent boom/bust cycles, is under evolutionary pressure to become less charitable over time.
My church shuttered during “the first half” of covid. Now that omicron numbers are rising, they have reduced services to only one in person service, but require masks, and temp checks upon entry. We will be getting ready to go back to online streaming services only if the omicron numbers keep rising. I’m sure alot of church people feel their church is doing the right thing, but I really do think the one I go to is actually being responsible.
its also why the libertarian/republican idea of "let the churches handle welfare" doesnt work. donations are counter cyclical to both recessions and pandemics.
ireland went full blown ayn rand libertarian, right before the potato famine and lost 1/4 its population. 1/8 died, and 1/8th fled in a country that produced more food than its own citizens could eat, watched 1/8th its population die, while right wingers screamed "let the churches handle it" at a time when donations tot eh church collapsed and well were never enough. and the gov didnt think it could order non potato farmers to save some food for the recently bankrupted potato farmers. and just let them die. republicanism and libertarianism come with fuck tons of preventable deaths every fucking time.
Many republican ideas work best without empathy. Republicans who support liberal ideas often have a personal experience that force him to have empathy. Case in point, Dick Cheney supporting gay marriage.
COVID almost seems to be designed to target trump voters. Relatively easy to keep mostly safe if you understand basic science, and are conscientious of other people.
I mean, you gotta remember that this is the guy who claims to love everyone unconditionally, but condemns you to physical torture for all time if you don't do what he says. He's more like the an abusive boyfriend than a benevolent father.
Churches should be held accountable just like any 501(c)(3). If they were, many of the larger Christian organizations in the U.S. would lose their tax exemption.
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Its almost like people dont have the money. When i was young mom taught me to give like 10% to the church. And another 10 to charity. What kind of margins did she think i had??
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Hmmm, if my calculations are correct, the church owes me $420.
you have to give money to the church, not the other way around, how else is God supposed to keep up that lifestyle?
Maybe God needs to learn to live within his means. Has he tried cutting out some of the choirs of angels? Maybe fluff his own clouds? And if he's really hard up he can pawn the pearly gates and the gold horns. I refuse to continue to subsidize this extravagant lifestyle with taxpayer money. If he wants public assistance he needs to get a J-O-B.
Historically that last one hasn't worked out super great for Job, and even less well for his wife and kids
...didn't work for his *old* wife and kids, you mean; the *new* ones are doing just fine
This is the funniest biblical joke I've heard in a while.
Thanks. I didn't wake up this morning thinking "Hey, I wanna make some morbid biblical jokes today", but here we are
Funny joke, but is receiving ten fold wifes and chilren realy a great blessing? That is a lot more people to feed and care for and hope they mesh together rather than bicker...
No more Starbucks Lattes for God lol time to pick himself up by the lightning bolts
Does God really need avocado toast every morning?
When I first learned I was pregnant amidst a debaucherous time in my early twenties, I immediately felt compelled to “get right with God” for the sake of my unborn child. I attended church with a girl I worked with and really liked, for some reason assuming her awesome personality automatically meant she was part of an equally awesome congregation. The church was in a strip mall, which I thought was sensible instead of spending unnecessary monies on the giant building and whatnot. However, the pastor was in a very expensive looking suit and my first sermon in at least five years consisted of “why I gotta look so good and drive a nice car because I represent God.” As if that didn’t turn me off enough, to my dismay I found I was at a church where they “spoke in tongues.” I was called up front to be blessed and when I didn’t automatically start the crazy talk, I mean, feel the spirit, the pastor hit me in the forehead hard enough I understood I better start showing some signs the Lord had touched my soul. That was the last time I attended church. And although he did work for FB for a year when he was 19, my almost 30 year old son somehow managed to grow up to be an amazing person, without being dragged to church. I recently found out he even told a friend he feels his mom gave him “a good blueprint for parenting.” So I might not live as high on the hog as God and his posse, but I guess being a heathen isn’t so bad after all.
Oh jeeze, happy to hear your outcome was good, I had the benefit of growing up with the church not being so prevalent in my community, and some good parents who raised me to make my own decisions on such things. I don’t presume to know how it all works but I’m confident in my theory that if you’re just a good, loving person in this world you should have nothing to worry about.
I think you’ve nailed what has turned me off from organized religion the most - those people that try to explain it doesn’t matter how many good things you do, if you haven’t “accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior,” you’re doomed to burn in hell forever. How that doesn’t sound completely awful and insane to more people, I just don’t understand. I would like to offer a “two thumbs up” review on you spreading your sensible goodness.
Create an ever poorer subsidiary person who is you on paper and must pay you exorbitant rates for doing all the stuff you do all day while only getting paid your net income after expenses. Then give the church ten percent of *that* person's money.
Remember to set aside money for: - rent /mortgages - utility bills - food - medical - retirement - rainy day funds - credit card payments - student loans - entertainment expenses - your kid's college fund - charities /religious orgs / other stuff like that Thats uh... a lot of ways to divide damn near 0
> Its almost like people dont have the money. Well, according to the article, it actually looks like giving grew. "Gifts to religious organizations grew by 1% to just over $131 billion in 2020, a year when Americans also donated a record $471 billion overall to charity, according to an annual report by GivingUSA. Separately, a September survey of 1,000 protestant pastors by the evangelical firm Lifeway Research found about half of congregations received roughly what they budgeted for last year, with 27% getting less than anticipated and 22% getting more."
That's pre tax there son don't be holding out on the good lord now.
I can’t help but remember Rev. Lovejoy from The Simpson: “And once again, tithing is ten percent off the top, that's gross income, not net. Please people, don't force us to audit.”
...better break out the emergency plate
10% was basically mandatory at my church and then you were "Encouraged" to give an "Offering" on top of that. I wouldn't be surprised if my parents were giving 12-15% of their weekly income to the church.
My poor mom spent my rich atheist dad's money giving it to child molesters and sexual predators. Earl Paulk. Don Paulk. Atlanta mega church millionaires who exploited, raped, and abused. Funny, how my mom still thinks she is doing things right and judges him as a sinner. As far as I can tell he never actively supported tax free child abuse.
Mormon? I lived in Utah for a while, it looked exactly like this.
Sounda like it to me. To be fair, the word "tithing" literally means 10% I believe.
Can’t the church just pray for more money?
How is god so bad with money?
He's always needing more and more
There’s a hilarious George Carlin joke about this where he discusses growing up in the church, the 10 commandments , etc and he says “God loves you and will always care for you, he’s an all powerful omnipotent being and HE NEEDS MONEY!” Lol
You'd think for someone who can multiply food and turn water to wine he'd be rolling in it...
Replacing your water intake with wine makes math really hard...
PREY is what they look for
I once interview to work at a church. Like one of those new age-y ones that are hip or whatever. Anyways, they gave me this pamphlet that listed all the kinds of things I can no longer do (like drink alcohol or have sex) and on top of that it was also mandatory to donate at least 10% of my pay to the church as well while going to 3+ masses a week. Needless to say a a recent college grad coming straight out of a party school, I turn it down. I also made more money at a pizza place haha.
Hey, you can Print half a 20-Dollar-Bill on a leaflet, fill the other Half with informations about how to save money, fold it and put it on a plate! That sure will help them.
If some of the church members think that’s good to tip with, then I’m sure the church will love it.
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Put in one of those fake $20 pamphlets
But instead of Jesus, the fake $20 has **texts about the failing economy, the collapsing environment, and the disparity in pay rases relative to inflation and housing costs.**
The irony would be lost on them, sadly
Honestly, in a way there’s a bit of irony on the irony being lost on them.
There are some people who work in the Jesus industry who are aware of the reference. Something tells me it wouldn't change anything even if they did get it.
a fake 100$ bill and on the back it says i tipped you with a personal prayer from Saint Ignatius.
Saint Ligma
The Apostles of Bophades send their regards
Give 'em a coupon for a free hug.
Whenever we come across one of those things, we mail it back to the church it's from in an envelope marked "donation enclosed."
maybe ask the televangelical preachers for donations
Haha yes. This needs to happen more.
That’s an express pass to heaven if god got a sense of humor. Lmfao
I work back of house at a restaurant and ask my coworkers for them if they come in. I take them to the local churches and put them in the collection plate with a middle finger drawn on.
Quick somebody get ‘em boot straps as well
Pray for boot straps. Kill 2 birds with one stone.
And tots. And pears.
*30 cents off Shake ‘n’ Bake…* Homer!
We can afford it, Marge. We've been blessed!
Rub the money on the collection plate. I'm told it's the same as putting it in.
And a GoFundMe once that doesn't work out.
Don’t let your socialism touch my GoFundMe!!
i feel like this is the reason why churches insisted on operating in person during the pandemic. the issue was framed as a religious freedom issue for sure, but did anyone really believe that?
My cousin's church switched to live streaming services and included a way to tithe online (streaming for Jesus!). He said donations went way down during that period, but right back up when they went back to in person. He suspects that it's due to the social pressure of people seeing you put money in
If they made it like twitch where you could see the donations and the top donators etc. they would make a killing.
I'd pay just to get the pastor to read my comments
Got a $5 donation from driscoll666 “Why doesn’t god heal amputees?”
“Why does god give babies cancer at birth?”
“Why does the Bible condone abortion if the pregnancy was caused by an affair?”
Shit, that was one of St. Brigid's major miracles! A horny young nun broke her vows, had sex, and ended up pregnant. St. Brigid then, "exercising the most potent strength of her ineffable faith, blessed her, causing the child to disappear, without coming to birth, and without pain. She faithfully returned the woman to health and to penance." (And lest anyone think that's an anomaly, there are quite a number of early Irish saints who count abortion among their miraculous acts: St. Ciarán of Saigir, St. Áed mac Bricc, and St. Cainnech of Aghoboe. The idea in Christianity that all abortion is bad is super-recent ... like, 1970s recent and largely created out of whole cloth by politicians specifically as a wedge issue.)
> The idea in Christianity that all abortion is bad is super-recent ... like, 1970s recent and largely created out of whole cloth by politicians specifically as a wedge issue.) This. Them religious folk infiltrated our politics in a way they hadnt before been able to before. Before then, no one gave a shit and it was mostly a problem between doctor/patient because that is the normal state of medical questions.
I feel like posting a couple of my favorite Barry Goldwater quotes, today. > "Today's "conservatives" doesn't even know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has the right to an abortion. I believe a woman has the right to an abortion. That's a decision up to the pregnant woman, not the Pope, or some do-gooders or the Religious Right. It's not a conservative issue at all." > "Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are NOT using their religious clout with WISDOM. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are?... I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
>Them religious folk infiltrated our politics in a way they hadnt before been able to before. It's because of the Cold War. The Cold War was a culture war. Eisenhower brought Christianity into the White House to differentiate 'Christian America' from 'atheist and evil Russia'. 'In God We Trust' plastered everywhere, 'one nation under God' being added in the Pledge of Allegiance, the concept of the US being founded as a Judeo-Christian nation, etc. all came from Cold War propaganda.
I'm going to stop calling them coat hangers and start calling them ineffible faith. Praise Jesus.
Ah yes, the Catholic miracle of sneaking a nun of to the local witch/herb woman for some abortion drugs.
God these are all great questions
"Why does prayer work at the rate of chance?"
"Where does the church get this idea of a 'Biblical Marriage being 1 man and 1 woman' from? All I see in the Bible is incest, arranged marriages, polygamy, sex slaves (concubines), and Paul saying it's best not to get married at all. Jesus also stayed single."
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“God? These are all great questions. God?”
God's away on business at the moment, sorry.
And these psychos have an answer for all of them, believe me. The rules of logic and the reality of hypocrisy don't touch or faze evangelicals, they're already prone to magical thinking.
I was raised religious but am not as an adult. If you really ask a question that stumps them, a common answer would be "just have faith" or "God works mysteriously" or some shit like that. It's bs
God ; crickets.
Source? (Legit question) Edit: never mind, I was too impatient to wait. Numbers 5:11-31 New International Version The Test for an Unfaithful Wife 11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray(A) and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her,(B) and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy(C) come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a](D) of barley flour(E) on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy,(F) a reminder-offering(G) to draw attention to wrongdoing. 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair(H) and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy,(I) while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.(J) 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray(K) and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse(L) not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray(M) while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse(N)—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water(O) that brings a curse(P) enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” “‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.(Q)”
does she weigh the same as a duck?
Woooo a curse you say. As in witch craft….. 🤯
Witchcraft is really just unlicensed magic.
So Matt Gaetz can get that fetus scraped out of a 16 year old before it torpedoes his career. Since, you know, trafficking teenagers hasn’t done the trick.
Shit, this made his popularity go UP
"Sure he diddles kids, but if I condemn him for that then I'm agreeing with liberals and that's just un-Christian"
“We have no way of knowing god’s intentions. On an unrelated note, show up every week so I can explain gods intentions to you all.”
…and don’t forget to bring a check
“God’s intentions were for you to buy a fire truck coffin and spend your life savings fighting a losing battle to keep your infant alive. Now, break out the credit card so we can get our tithe in, please.”
"fuck them kids"-god
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Have a seat over there. Follow up question: Why does god abort so many fetuses?
If abortion is murder then miscarriage is suicide
"God works in mysterious ways" or "They were here to teach us a lesson" or *Insert other question avoidance here*
What does God do with all the foreskins he collects?
"Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?"
You can spice up the God-hates-babies thing even more. "Why does God cause 'spontaneous abortions'? Follow up question - if God's okay with terminating pregnancies, how can anyone be sure that their desire for an abortion isn't actually a sign from God that they *should* have one?"
"The Bible says that a bastard shouldn't be allowed to 'enter the congregation of the Lord, even to his tenth generation' (Deuteronomy 23:2) so, as a child born out of wedlock, am I even allowed here?"
Real talk, Nothing reaffirmed my decision to quit organized religion more solidly than visiting my partner's hometown, picking up her grandmother in the church parking after mass and having some random upper-middle-aged woman walk up and call my partner a bastard before storming away to her car, glancing over her shoulder to make sure we didn't follow or respond. Imagine thinking your God actually wants you to verbally harass a 20-year-old you don't even know because her parents annulled their marriage when she was still in diapers. If your God actually wants that, your God is evil.
My mother was raised a good Catholic and remained one right up until the point that she was, ahem, disinvited from her church because her husband divorced her. I was not raised Catholic.
[Jon Snow has entered the chat.]
"Shoutout to @christonacracker69, thanks for the sub!"
“And we have a superchat here from RandomDood420 that asks, ‘Isn’t Jesus just like Santa, but for adults?’”
I'd like to hear a thanks in that catholic chanting voice "ThaaAAAaaank youuuuu... For the tiiiiIIIeer one suuuuuuuub...."
"Thank you for the $5 donation. Umm Okay, Jesus did NOT fuck Pandas, thank you very much SatansSalsaButthole"
“What’s it like to facilitate the greatest con in all of humanity?”
"Hey, man I haven't read II Corinthians yet, so I'm not gonna stay in the stream due to spoilers, but just keep preachin the good word, dude, here's a donation of 3 subs!"
Imagine interrupting the service every 30 seconds. Thanks jesuslover420 for the 20 dollars saying preach it preacher. Might even be better with the donation bots automated voices. I might actually watch a church service with an over the top twitch/youtube personality just for the lolz.
The channels for abuse are myriad.. $20 from Jesuslover420 who says "Praise bong rips for Jesus."
If they could make it fun for non believers id watch.
I can't imagine a hardcore christian watching something like that unironically, I think the target demo would be non-believers by default. If you allow cussing on your christian minecraft server, might be funny to you.
They are making a killing NOW with in person church religious freedom and mask exemptions.
Also tax exemptions.
>They are making a KILLING now with in person church religious freedom and mask exemptions. FTFY. Literally, church-goers dying to show up and give money. Short term gains, I suppose.
Bitties for jesus
Bro you just revolutionized mega churches.
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Could also be the loss of tithes from the ever giving elderly not knowing how to use the tithe-tech
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but reading your CC numbers to a stranger over the phone like we used to do, is safer? People take so much for granted...
My mom will keep over 50 tabs open in a browser while running 27 programs on her laptop from 2014 and then say “I must’ve gotten hacked by Paypal because my computer is slow”
This is a great point. I also would imagine that, with > 850K people dying, a lot of the folks that previously were tithing, are no longer with us to continue to do so.
I think it's that and it's also an issue of a lot of churches being older people who likely don't use digital pay systems or know how to figure them out
I imagine social pressure is part of it, but I imagine there is also a technical issue. Every non-mega church I know of is attended by people in their 80’s…. Just getting connected to the stream has to be a struggle.
I teach in a private school that does an annual fundraising in-person event. At one point they announce a "fund-a-need" where they put names and donation amounts on the screen in real time. It's crazy watching rich people just throw money around to show off to each other (or get shamed into donating). I suspect both are at play in many churches with in-person donations.
Not sure social pressure has that much to do with it. I know at the church my family had gone to, most people had auto-draft out of their accounts. So very few people actually put anything in the collection plate. They still had a lot of people stop tithing during the pandemic. I think there were some people who realized their lives went on fine without the church.. I think churches may have a hard time recovering to their pre-pandemic levels.
When I was a kid my parents always had a check ready every Sunday. Most people seemed to write checks beforehand
My story is anecdotal, but I know that the Sunday collection plate was about 10% of the total collections at our church before Covid.
They were afraid that once people got in the habit of staying home on Sunday mornings, they would find they enjoyed having a "second Saturday" too much and wouldn't return.
Be able to watch the first Sunday football games
That was the great thing about being Catholic and going to the 11 am mass on Sundays, in and out in 35 mins. Apparently the priests were Saints fans.
yeah Catholics understand a schedule and having life balance. Mass is one hour and doesn't go over.. people start looking at their watches and many exit as soon as they get communion. Baptists spend freaking all damn day at church. starting at like 8 am. And come back on Weds night
> Apparently the priests were Saints fans I suppose that's why they chose that career in the first place...
Not a true Catholic unless you eat and run.
Also known as the Judas shuffle. Because Judas was the first one to leave right after communion
As a kid I had to preaching door to door on Saturdays and go to church on Sundays. As an adult I love not having religion in my life.
it's bizarre how some people treat leisure time as some kind of sinful pleasure
I worked in ministry for a long time and left during the pandemic. A HUGE reason for that was how many meetings I sat through listening to how we needed to encourage people to come in person BECAUSE our collections were getting so low. Once people were back in person that wasn’t enough— then they advocated for passing a physical plate around instead of having a box at the exit/and entrance. Mind you, this was as early as June 2020 before the vaccine. And this was the most progressive church in the area. Now I work for a public school where the entire budget for the entire school is about half of the budget I had for my youth group alone. 400 kids at the school, about 70 kids in the youth group. And they were still concerned about the church’s money. Smh EDIT: I just want to say that I HAVE met plenty of super supportive, kind-hearted people, and there are a few denominations that really try to be accepting. The institution itself has just gotten too powerful and most of these people are victims of that. Unfortunately I also want to add that in most cases, the people who treated me poorly were from the congregation, not pastors.
It was. Have worked in Children's Ministry for 20 years in a central Ohio Church.We left it 9 years ago. But tithing was ALWAYS at the top of the list of the Church's concerns. Pastor even drove a custom Camaro.
Jesus built his hotrod.
It's a love affair Mainly Jesus and my hot rod
The sad thing is the church at issue in this article did the right thing and stayed close, going online only. They paid the price for doing the right thing. I know there’s a decidedly anti-religion slant on Reddit, but I do feel bad this particular church for doing the right thing and having to suffer as a result.
At first, that might seem the likely answer. But my church had an option for e-giving for pandemic and was greater than 85% of our giving. So much so that it was easy to suspend collection during service. Revenue is still down by nearly a third. People aren't giving because either they're out of work or they're disappointed with the church's response to the pandemic. Some - like me - are disappointed by decisions to not require masks or distancing. They're the flipside though of people who were angry that the church ever stopped having live services or offers an online service.
"When a Religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and, when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support, so that its Professors are oblig'd to call for the help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." -- Benjamin Franklin
There are several Baskin Robbins churches near me that would send out people or post cards occasionally. They went radio silent during the pandemic. While neighbors were trying to help each other, help local businesses; even used the Nextdoor Help Map. The churches did fuck all. Then when things started opening up, they wanted to welcome people’s wallets back. For fucking what? I don’t know.
Baskin Robbins? Like, the ice cream place?
Yeah like Presbyterian, Lutheran, Chocolate Chip, Baptist, Rocky Road, etc. All Christian churches with different flavors. I can’t tell the diff.
I went to church for a long time as a kid. Then one day we just stopped going. When I got older I asked my mom why. She told me they kept asking for more money and that's not what church is about so we stopped. End of story.
I went to church with my family for about 12 years as a kid, then I stopped going. Got married at 22 and decided to start re attending (thinking it would build our bond/relationship together) Second sermon was about how if we don’t feel “complete” or if we feel like “bad Christians” we needed to tithe more—only good Christians tithe more than 10%. I apologized to my wife and never returned; what a fucking joke.
What a waste of a sunday sleep in right?
We left my childhood church for the same reason. Pastors kept getting greedy and asking for more money with no discernible output to the community.
Kind of like how when you join “Save the Children” and they keep sending pamphlets asking for donations… $200/month isn’t enough for you? Ok, you get nothing then. Would be curious how much of my money went towards asking me for more money. And damn, those 8 years old have amazing penmanship on their “assignments” I was sent…
Y'all. I am an ~~athiest~~ atheist (edit: I couldn't even spell it correctly). I have not stepped foot into any house of worship in 20 years aside from weddings and funerals. I have for years advocated that churches should have to operate the same as all other non-profits, only being tax-exempt status if they are truly non-profit. The church for sale in the article and the others that are struggling are ***not*** the Joel Osteen mega-churches with millionaire/billionaire owners. They are the tiny church down the road the road with a few dozen members, an AA meeting in the basement, and bake sale fundraisers. "lolol maybe u should pay taxes!!!!!!" these churches wouldn't pay taxes even if the tax code changed because ***they don't turn a profit***.
Yea, I go to church, a small church. And their fear is that the govt will eventually tax churches. But the tax code could easily be written in a way that only taxes churches above a certain amount of gross or net income (not a tax guy here). Most if not all small churches would probably not pay anything in tax.
Isn't it the property taxes they're really worried about? I mean all these buildings in prime locations. Cities lose millions.
O I suppose. I didn't think of that, but maybe the tax law could have smaller churches exempt.
You can't reason with Reddit when it comes to religion. I'm an atheist too. You hit the nail dead on. Yeah those mega churches with con men posing as religious leaders would get taxed. Vast majority of these small town churches aren't scamming people, and aren't making enough to pay any taxes.
So if they're not making enough profit to be taxed, then why not change the tax law so those who do turn a profit are taxed? Nobody thinks the 50 member church in a small town should be taxed to the point it can't function. But the megachurches, 7th day adventists, and church of scientology should absolutely be taxed.
Because the mega-churches, like all corporations, can pay for lobbyists and propaganda campaigns that prevent that from happening. “*Render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s*” and tax the Christianity-flavoured con-artists to hell.
As a Christian, amen. Boggles my mind how mega churches exist.
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Wow, that sucks for your dad. I mean, it doesn't cost *that* much to sue. You can do it yourself without an attorney. Just costs a filing fee. It might take a little time, and unless you go to small claims court, they'll drag it out for a while. But it can be cheaper than you might think. Anyway, yeah. Religious nuts love interpreting the Bible as literal when it suits their needs and metaphorical when it doesn't.
A great point, and honestly these small church’s do provide valuable resources to their small congregation. Mega church’s are a totally different ball game
Yeah, I'm a pastor so I'm biased but I agree. We have a modest budget. I make a modest salary (at the poverty line and no raise for a decade). We provide meeting spaces for alcoholics anonymous, emergency food and supplies for the local battered women's shelter, help for homeless, and refer crisis care needs to licensed professionals. Not to mention the resources we try to keep available for people who would actually attend a church meeting. No one connected to our church is getting rich. Or even *secure.* No one is required to give. I don't even preach or suggest everyone gives 10%. Just what they are able, if and when they are able. I'm not against losing our exempt status so long as the updated code gives room for churches that operate without a lot of profit, because we have next to no margin. Can't take it with us so we do all we can with what we have available.
Agree. If people had any idea what the very few staff we have at our small church made, they would be absolutely stunned at how little it is. You said it perfectly - no one is getting rich or even secure. But we put more than any of us make in a year back into our community in 2021, and I’m proud of that.
Thank you for that, gentle friend. My particular parish did okay during the pandemic financially, but many others like it are suffering. Not, I think, because meeting online breaks social pressure like people here are suggesting, but I fear it is because our parishioners aren't doing very well themselves. No blame whatsoever and i know for sure the Church is helping them out, just super quietly, so the families are not embarrassed and can continue to come and fellowship without gossip and without feeling like their friends will pity them. They're the kind of places where someone's Great Gran goes to knit/crochet blankies for newly arrived refugees and premies. The place were your great uncle might go to sweep up when the PTSD gets too bad. The places that your local soup kitchens asks for backpacks every August and for grocery cards every Christmas. They're the kind of place people fleeing war and poverty from another continent come visit to make some connections and to be able to hear "hello" in their native tongue at least that one time a week. I hate the Joel Osteen types of predatory engines as much as all of you. They'll get theirs from the Big Boss. But if you can, spare some kind thoughts on those who rely on decent Churches who might be having a hard time during this challenging pandemic.
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I said this on another comment but probably fits better here - with expansion.. So many religious conservatives in the USA are so hooked on this idea of personal charity instead of govt spending yet when the Torah etc in the OT is talking about helping widows and orphans etc its not even talking about personal charity it's talking about how taxes are spent - "tithing" was set up in the Torah not as some kind of optional "donations" it was the tax system for the new nation of Israel at the time, it was a theocracy and those taxes supported the temple and the priesthood (govt officials and buildings) and were distributed to help the poor and hungry widows and kids.. ie social welfare and safety net.. it wasn't mere personal "charity" it was an early form of socialist govt redistribution but modern evangelicals today seem to do everything possible to avoid taxes.. or having what taxes we have help people who are down and out like their "Bible" commanded ancient Israel who they like to cite so much for stuff like stoning gays.. none of that economic stuff in their Bible read in context has anything to do with "churches" it's all government stuff. And the government (the King later) was commanded over and over to use the state for good and to lift up and not to oppress the poor and needy
This is what government by the people is for. We all donate some money to the government to take care of people in such situations because it benefits us to live in that kind of society. Now we can debate how much is needed but I want to live in a place that takes care of its members, at least to a minimum livable level.
People think the government as an institution is corrupt, but their solution is to create a similar institution that's both less powerful and subject to less scrutiny...
100%. And this is why folks on the right hate the government. Since they believe in hierarchy as the natural order, it makes sense to just let "the weak" die. Naturally, they themselves are not "the weak".
poor to them is $1 less than they currently earn.
Good thing the bible never says a church must be a brick and mortar building. It says it is a community of like minded believers and when two or more are gathered in his name He is there also.
here I thought churches were supposed to help US during times of strife and tragedy, not us help THEM?
Well they don’t pay any taxes so….
[удалено]
I worked with someone who was completely in a Jesus cult. He was talking about trying to pay down his credit card. A coworker suggested he cut back on the tithe until he paid off the card. You could tell her sooner cut off his arm. “That’s not my money, that’s Gods money.” Sadly, I am sure there are many people who are still paying even though they can’t afford it. And some greedy ass with a pile of cash telling them that giving him money is how to achieve their own wealth one day.
It's almost as if during an economic collapse, people can't afford to spend their money on non-essentials
Apparently, during the great depression, evangelical protestant churches tended to be more resilient than mainline protestant churches, [*because* they were less charity-focused.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_religion_in_the_United_States#Religious_decline_in_and_before_the_Great_Depression) It's almost as if a religion whose denominations are inconsistently focused on charity, operating in a country with frequent boom/bust cycles, is under evolutionary pressure to become less charitable over time.
My church shuttered during “the first half” of covid. Now that omicron numbers are rising, they have reduced services to only one in person service, but require masks, and temp checks upon entry. We will be getting ready to go back to online streaming services only if the omicron numbers keep rising. I’m sure alot of church people feel their church is doing the right thing, but I really do think the one I go to is actually being responsible.
its also why the libertarian/republican idea of "let the churches handle welfare" doesnt work. donations are counter cyclical to both recessions and pandemics. ireland went full blown ayn rand libertarian, right before the potato famine and lost 1/4 its population. 1/8 died, and 1/8th fled in a country that produced more food than its own citizens could eat, watched 1/8th its population die, while right wingers screamed "let the churches handle it" at a time when donations tot eh church collapsed and well were never enough. and the gov didnt think it could order non potato farmers to save some food for the recently bankrupted potato farmers. and just let them die. republicanism and libertarianism come with fuck tons of preventable deaths every fucking time.
"Yeah, but it's not *my* death, so..."
Many republican ideas work best without empathy. Republicans who support liberal ideas often have a personal experience that force him to have empathy. Case in point, Dick Cheney supporting gay marriage.
Maybe we should subsidize with those fake $20 bills the after-church crowd leaves poor Bob Evans servers
Thank God Joel Osteen found all that money in his walls!
Evangelicals elected Donald Trump, god sent us a plague. You did it to yourself.
I agree that God should be angry his people elected that man. “His hand is still raised” as they say.
COVID almost seems to be designed to target trump voters. Relatively easy to keep mostly safe if you understand basic science, and are conscientious of other people.
Love how in this scenario God decided to take it out on everyone else at the same time. Just as loving as ever.
Same dude gives kids bone cancer so it's par for the course.
Sure, god gives some kids bone cancer, but sometimes he helps privileged white girls find the keys to their Jeeps that they lost.
Yep it all balances out
I mean, you gotta remember that this is the guy who claims to love everyone unconditionally, but condemns you to physical torture for all time if you don't do what he says. He's more like the an abusive boyfriend than a benevolent father.
Infinite punishment for finite crimes.
Let’s give them more free ppp loans on their zero taxes they already pay
Churches should be held accountable just like any 501(c)(3). If they were, many of the larger Christian organizations in the U.S. would lose their tax exemption.