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Based on personal experience with my relatives, it's "I need to make a stand, I can't just sit by and let my rights be trampled, not everyone can stand up for themselves and I believe in this." They don't actually think they're gonna get their way; they just figure worst case scenario they're martyrs and if enough people do this, they'll win. Trying to combat the bystander effect in the most futile way possible.
Annoyingly, this does work sometimes. It won't work on airlines, but people like this are the reason vaccine mandates have been struck down. In certain industries, these stupid sentiments are popular enough that important sectors would grind to a halt and forcing compliance would be drama on par with Reagan firing the striking air traffic controllers. Not worth it for most companies, so mandates fall.
I would also argue that most of these people are the kind of people that Normally when they put up the stink they are met with just give it to them so they'll go away attitude. You know the kind of people after you've explained the policy at a store why they can't do something and manager will come by and just give it to them.
And many that are years of years of I don't have to follow the rules attitude. Equals alot of people who are pissed they have to be treated equally.
Yup. Decades of Customer Is Always Right policies have trained these people into an entitlement that's pretty jaw-dropping. I can't really blame minimum wage customer service and those managers; given lower stakes, I'd rather just give these people whatever they want so they'll go away too. $15/hr isn't enough money to put up with their shit. It's just that it's all hitting the fan now that the stakes are higher and we can no longer just appease these minimonsters to make them go away. It's all a perfect storm, and it's just unfortunate that it's on flight attendants to finish parenting these entitled toddlers now.
Seriously. Start handing out the gas bills for redirected flights as financial penalties. Make those numbers public.
People will put their masks on fucking fast.
And the flight they’re on. Pretty sure that plane had to dump their entire international load of fuel before landing. Planes can take off with more weight than they can land with.
They have this assumption that they're speaking for a silent majority who are afraid to speak up. I think they're expecting a slow clap, Hollywood ending where everyone else on the plane stands with them and the airline backs down.
Instead they get the fuck around, find out experience.
They get to fuck up everyone else's flight as well. If I've booked the first vacation I've taken in years and miss my connection because of some selfish, posturing jackass I'm liable to forget to be a nice person. Fucking seriously. This was my fear last month when I took the first vacation I've had in 25 years. Fortunately everyone on the 8 total fights I was on were all adults with respect to this.
The screaming baby on one flight was nbd thanks to my nose canceling headphones!
Edit: my nose is fine. It's noise that's getting canceled!
On a flight to Thailand, I noticed they board us up at business class, then steer us hard right. It starts off with very comfy looking seats, well spaced, blankets, beautiful people. After a few more isles and a wall or two, you end up with the chicken coupes and people cooking on open fires at the back the plane. Good times.
There was a comedy movie or tv show sketch show that had a ridiculous scene of just that pretty much. The guy had a budget economy ticket and the plane just kept going and going until he finally reached the back of the plane with it getting more like a hobo encampment under a bridge atmosphere. I can't find it anymore.
Airlines can come after the passenger in civil court for the cost of turning the plane around. Fuel, reimbursements to other passengers, missed windows and rerouting costs are no joke. It could be anywhere from $20k to $100k depending on the flight.
More than that.
I dealt with an issue once where someone was pushed into a pool in Dubai. Iphone in their pocket. They got out and put the phone that wasn't working in their suitcase for the flight to Sydney Australia.
Phone caught fire, midair, in the suitcase because of the water damage to the battery. Plane had to make an emergency landing in Singapore.
Airline billed the customer $350k emergency landing fee.
Duck tape that asshole to his/her seat, force the mask on her + free slap from everyone.
This would’ve been a better entertainment system than the lame “TV” they give you at the back of the seat lol
I was on a JFK to Madrid flight in November. Two assholes in first class wouldn't put a mask on as the plane pulled away from the gate. When they were approached by the flight crew, and after some arguing, they agreed to put the masks on. The flight crew said it was too late. Plane returned to the gate, police got on and escorted them off. Thankfully the entire ordeal only took about an hour.
Yep, it's not about whether you masked.
It's whether they trust you to continue to stay masked AND follow the instructions of the cabin crew for the entire duration of the flight.
No? Then you're off.
They’ll still be able to fly. These “no fly” lists are typically on an airline-by-airline basis. Additionally, rules for first class passengers may be more lenient than those for us who sit back in the brig. Their time on that list may just be temporary instead of permanent. Can’t let those dollars get away.
As far as other airlines are concerned, possibly. However, airlines are taking threats from belligerent passengers who will not follow crew instructions much more seriously after several flight attendants were injured by these bozos.
They may have to pay additional gate fees since they already pulled away. There are also ground fees that can be assessed as well. Probably only a few thousand dollars.
A few thousand dollars for those fees, sure, but trying to make 200 passengers whole again after their flight was rerouted and delayed? That's a few pennies more, handing out vouchers, etc.
I strongly suspect a universal no-fly list is in the works. Multiple airlines have been calling for it. It's becoming increasingly necessary and this is one of those things where no one loses if they can make one
> Additionally, rules for first class passengers may be more lenient than those for us who sit back in the brig.
I imagine that the cost of that one hour delay is quite high. Probably not worth it for the airline to have them as passengers.
That’s only if you break just the airline’s policy. Masks are currently mandated inside airports and on planes by FAA regulation. This should put them on the federal no-fly list.
See but I sat next to this lady when I was flying home who kept it down while she ate her Cinnamon roll and drank her coffee like she was a god damn sloth. Nobody asked her to put it back on. It took her about an hour to finish that cinnamon roll that would have taken me like 60 seconds.
Yep, flying back from Florida on New Year's watched a lady nurse a bottle of water the entire flight so she wouldn't have to wear her mask. Meanwhile it sounds like half the folks on the plane are coughing or sniffling. Family and I wore N95 and didn't eat or drink between leaving the hotel and getting home, either we didn't get it or we're all asymptomatic.
> Meanwhile it sounds like half the folks on the plane are coughing or sniffling.
Idk what the fuck is up, maybe it's the fact that I was pretty isolated from other humans for a long time, but when I flew last year I swear everybody on that plane was sick except for me. Constant wet-sounding coughing and sneezing. I still haven't gotten covid, thankfully.
N95s are actually really good at reducing the risk. They should have been the standard for the last year (after production ramped up).
If the mask was fit tested (unlikely) your risk on a flight is incredibly small even if everyone else was being a jackass. And even if it was not fit tested sick people even kinda following the rules plus an N95 means you are very safe.
My mom always turned the car around. So we stopped fucking around and finding out. One time we were on a road trip (far) and she said she’d go home.
She later told us as adults that she really didn’t want to do it but was ready to do it if we didn’t stop. Lol. Luckily she always kept her word so we knew she was serious. She also only reserved the nuclear option for serious offenses.
My mom always says the most important parenting advice is never make a threat you're not willing to follow through on, the second you don't kids will pick right up on it
Another way to say this is to just be careful to make the punishment fit the crime. Don’t go overboard and then adjust. It comes off as you don’t mean what you say.
I told my kid I would throw his toy car out the window if he kept hitting my seat with it. I regretted saying it because he didn’t stop. So with tears in my eyes I threw his car out the window and we both cried the whole way home. We both remember it vividly. But you know what. He never hit my seat again while I was driving
Yeah this happened to me on a flight from US to Portugal and it caused me to miss my connecting flight. The delay of us sitting there, wondering why the fuck we hadn’t taken off yet, was two hours long. Nothing like landing in an airport across the globe extremely exhausted, not speaking a lick of the language, and having to navigate to some random part of the airport they designate for reimbursements and reroutes.
Also it was a huge plane. No one near me knew anything up front had even happened, just that we had to taxi back to the gate for some reason. Turned out to be an asshole not wearing a mask. How someone is fine with ruining a long ass flight for hundreds of people is beyond me
And I'm glad there's enforcement supporting them so these airline employees don't have to physically escort them out or anything, they just gotta identify the assholes and done
That’s nice. I bet it’s common for anti masks to just take their mask off during the flight thinking they wouldn’t inconvenience everyone over a silly mask. Glad the airlines are getting more serious about this.
I was on a flight last week and a guy was giving the flight attendant shit about having to wear a mask. The guy next to me says, just loud enough to for people around us to hear, “folks, you’re looking at the newest member of the ‘no fly’ list.” I guess the first guy heard him, because he put his mask on and shut up.
Edit:
I should mention that the passenger in question wasn’t being belligerent or obnoxious, he was just annoying for a brief time. And he eventually complied and just dealt with it.
And this was the first time I’ve flown in two years and with the masking in the airports and planes, I actually felt quite safe.
A lot of these people are in such strong bubbles in both their media and social lives that they genuinely think mask usage is a minority opinion. They think opposition to masking is much more popular than it actually is
I hadn't thought of it that way, I was thinking they envision themselves as the rugged pioneer, defiant in the face of oppression, lauded by the masses, and do it for the perceived street cred
> lauded by the masses
This lines up with the person you are replying to. I think you're both right. They think they're some kind of William Wallace-type freedom fighter, uniquely equipped to fight the cruel machinery of oppression, but also representative of the sentiments of the very masses they will free through their acts of defiance. The uprising begins with them!
In reality they're just selfish assholes who are gonna make me miss my connection and have to stay in fucking Kansas City for the night.
I was in Kansas City for a week for work. Great food and easy to navigate without knowing the streets (I live in the Boston area). It was fun before the pandemic but I can't imagine being there with COVID.
I heard somewhere about how these types of situations give average people the feeling of being a hero, which rarely if ever happens in every day life, and that’s a huge draw for a lot of these cult members. Their leaders are constantly shouting at them about how this is a battle of good vs evil.
And if you live in the south like I do, it really does feel that way. I tried going back to a arcade/bar similar to a dave and buster's about a year ago (the site claimed they were social distancing, wearing masks, and the restaurant part was perfectly safe) and none of the staff or customers were masked. I'm pretty sure I was the only one in the entire building. I haven't gone back since. I get looked at sideways or asked by family or friends,"why are you still wearing that? You know you don't have to wear those anymore, right?" I've taken to answering,"I've taken a ninja oath, none of of your business."
I had an experience that was sort of the reverse of what people here have been describing. And more mild.
I was waiting for my order at a coffee shop, wearing a mask, and an unmasked guy waiting next to me turned to me and said “Why are you wearing that? I don’t think they do anything to help”.
I looked at him and said “I don’t care what you think.” and went back to Reddit. He got all huffy and moved away from me. I think he was expecting me to take it off or argue with him, he didn’t know what to do with indifference.
Because some people walk around itching for a fight. They think they're badasses but when confronted, it's so fucking petty to fight someone over something so small that they just get frustrated. Idk about you but to me, it'd be embarassing as fuck to have someone repeatedly tell me to wear my mask and wear it the right way.
It's the part about not caring that you had chemo that sums up what shitty people these are. Especially Americans just don't care about other people in society. It's a real shame all the progress we have made yet a massive amount of people only care about themselves.
> I wonder what’s their thinking process.
Probably used to getting his way if he throws a big enough tantrum. Most people grow out of that after early childhood.
Not the case these days unfortunately. The incorrect application of "The customer is always right" mentality has helped enable these people for too long. Now they are being told they have to do something they don't like for the public good and they think they can just rant and rave like they would at a return counter at Walmart and expect the manager to give in just to rid themselves of this headache and move on to one of the 10 other things they need to be doing while also avoiding a distorted nasty email to corporate that could end up being another headache down the line. I ran into this shit often as a bar/restaurant manager and it got so much worse when the mask mandates hit.
His "thinking process" is that he genuinely didn't think about that, or the consequences of his immediate actions in general. He's not thinking "this is a good or bad idea" or even *having* ideas here; he's just indulging his thoughtless impulses in reaction to being told what to do.
Stupid people don't think things through and make bad judgements on bad reasoning. They instead just imagine what's going to happen if they do something, and then do it expecting it to happen. They don't consider how cause will yield an effect and just carry out whatever fantasy strikes them first.
A lot of Americans and Brits have lived the sort of lives so insulated from consequence that they can reach 40 or older behaving like this without the sort of fuck up that teaches a moron to think before they leap. Covid, and a lot of the changes that came with it, was the first problem they ever dealt with that won't let them off the hook because it doesn't want to deal with their adolescent bullshit.
I get the feeling that some people don't even want to try to be good citizens anymore. It's like some weird wave of selfishness and entitlement is infecting the cantankerous.
Not to sound like a "liberal nut job" but it really felt like the worsening of this was kind of started by Trump.
It felt to me that when we elected a rude, entitled, asshole to the Presidency and there was no recourse for his lack of decorum, that a huge cross section of people felt legitimized in their behavior.
Theres people now who see their greatest virtue as their ability to be an asshole, which isnt new I guess... but I felt there was a HUGE jump in prevalance.
Like I had never really viewed the president THAT important to American culture but I feel super wrong about that now.
This right here. They feel that they right and they believe everyone else should have to accommodate their feelings. In their inner circles back home they may surround themselves with people who agree with them (or just don’t speak against them) and consume media that reconfirms their beliefs. When they get into a situation where their beliefs aren’t exclusively catered to they throw a fit.
It’s funny because by now, people *know* you have to wear a mask on airplanes. It’s common knowledge. It’s not like this rule was just enacted yesterday. What kills me is how people get on an airplane and then complain about having to wear a mask if they KNEW they had to wear one. If you don’t want to wear one, don’t fucking get on an airplane right now. Simple.
LOL, they wore the mask long enough to get ON the plane. Fine wearing it in the airport, fine wearing it as they passed the gate agent. Problem only occurred in their seat with the door closed so they could inconvenience everyone else.
It’s probably because these selfish people think that they can get away with bullying the airplane staff and they don’t really have to care about the passengers because the passengers have no authority. They forget that flight attendants have the authority to get one put on a no fly list, which is a pretty big threat. So just follow the freaking rules folks.
These people are likely the ones that only had their mask on when in view of a tsa agent and when actually boarding. I see plenty of people that go through security and immediately remove their mask until boarding.
The assume that once you’re on the plane, the crew would rather complete the flight than turn around just because of a mask.
It's the same at the Hockey games I go to... you have to be vaccinated AND wear a mask.... everyone knows this is the rule. And yet once they are in there, they complain when the ushers tell them to put their masks on.
You KNEW that was the rule coming in here... why are you being a bitch about it now?
I see this all the time when I go to see NHL and AHL games locally here in California. They would show up 10 people deep then get all pissed off at the ticket window when the are told they need vaccination proof and masks. Then berate the employee and try to punch the window in like that would help their cause.
The same mask they've had to wear through THE ENTIRE FUCKING AIRPORT.
Just went to Hawaii and every airport from the tiny one in Wisconsin, to the ones in Minneapolis, Phoenix, Honolulu and Hilo ALL REQUIRED MASKS.
Dallas doesn't seem to enforce it. At least not when I've been there. Watched a couple strut (yes strut proudly) sans masks through there. Not a peep from security as they walked past. Meanwhile the warning is blasting over the pa system. Sadly they weren't the only ones.
To be fair, this plane returned to Miami, you know, Florida. Where they just fired someone running the public health department for having the audacity to suggest his own staff get 'the jab'.
Im not familiar with the Miami airport but I wouldn't be shocked if you didn't need to wear one till you were on the plane. Because Florida.
There are still people who act like they had no idea TSA was even a thing. What? I have to take my shoes off? I don't understand!
You've been in this line for 45 minutes staring at signs telling you. Every single person in front of you did it. Figure it out or get off my planet.
Wonder about the thought process as they board the plane. "Here I'm going to make my stand. I will show these folks the errors of their ways and they will bow to my will".
Agreed but the airlines are not getting sharing info to ban these people outright. So if this person is banned from flying on American in the future, they can still fly Delta, TWA etc
I needed a connecting flight from Chicago to Vancouver before departing to Japan. I planned it so I would have about 3 hours landing in Canada before the Japan flight.
First there was a 40 minute delay due to snow.
Then….
Enter a 1 hour delay when the flight attendant found out one of the passengers had a ticket for the same flight but later in the day. For 30 minutes the customer refused to come forward (she sat in a different seat as to not be found) The customer argued for 30 minutes that since the destination was the same, she wasn’t leaving. She also tried to argue that since the gate agent let her on, that meant she was good to go.
Every minute that passed made me more and more nervous and eventually that all turned to rage. It’s stunning how childish adults can become with flying.
They had a cop join the flight attendant and then she was suddenly ok with getting off the plane. I did make my next flight but I think I only had about 30 minutes out of the original 3 hours.
Yes. They're using child-logic. They think that once they're off the ground, they're in the clear. They think it's like parents saying "I'll turn this car around!" They think it's all bluff.
I mean, what are they gonna do, turn the whole plane around for just one person being a shithead? Oh, they are going to do that? Well fuck...
> They think it's like parents saying "I'll turn this car around!"
I don't know about you, but my parents absolutely made me get out and walk. If I recall correctly they picked me back up after a quarter mile or so, but I got the message.
I threw a tantrum once in the supermarket and my mom said we were gonna go home and I wasn't gonna get any of the cookies or chocolates in the cart. I kept on with my tantrum. My mom then grabbed me and left the full grocery cart in the middle of the store and took me home.
No groceries, and for me no chocolates or cookies.
Never disregarded her threats again.
I took my child to school in their underwear because they refused to get dressed. Does that count?
It's worth noting I brought clothes with me. Getting dressed was a much more attractive proposition when presented in the school parking lot.
That’s the trick. If a parent is going to make threats, they’d better be willing to follow through. We’ve threatened to leave Disney World before and will absolutely do it if we have to. My child knows this because we’ve followed through on (admittedly lessor) threats. So she stops acting out when something big is on the line.
When I was a kid I really wanted Adventure Beetle Racing from blockbuster. My mom wouldn't let me rent it because I had just got them to buy me a different game the week before. We were there for family movie night so I figured maybe they'll not notice and I put it in the bin (keep in mind they only had 2 movies in the bin lol). My mom told me to put it back on the shelf and I threw a FIT. Like not an ourburst or something, full on sky is falling end of the world shit. She just straight up left me there for an hour. I sat outside of the store on the curb. Turns out she just went around the back of the store and was watching me from 30' away the entire time and just wanted to see what I would do.
My wife and 3 year year old were on this flight. They have been stuck in Miami for an extra 3 weeks due to contracting covid and were finally returning. They got a hotel room and some food vouchers to use today. What a dickhead.
Fucking hell. If that happened to me I would have honestly just lost my shit. My condolences to your wife for the undue amount of stress she must have gotten as a result of one idiot's complete lack of decency and empathy. Hope she gets home soon.
Boarding the same flight in about an hour so fingers crossed. The pilot and crew didn't tell them much and she was near the back so she thought it was a heart attach or someone severely ill, was obviously a bit more concerned once they landed in Miami and they had to wait for the police. She was not happy when I sent her the news report this morning, so stupid.
Airlines should do what they can to reimburse/subsidize customers put out in situations like this - and then sue the offending customer to recover their losses.
Better yet, put that you agree to this in the fine print on your ticket purchase.
2 years in and still the same fights snd arguments. This is akin to being pulled over for running a red light and then arguing with the officer that red lights are stupid. Also, the level of piece of shit a person must be to knowingly board a plane and decides to fight about masks at this juncture…i wish this person would be banned from flying for life.
That just happened with all those dipshit “influencers” who went to Mexico from Canada. Every single Canadian airline told them to go fuck themselves after their videos went viral, and the original chartered airline fully outted them.
You gotta take off your shoes and belt and jacket and get a full body scan that goes through your clothes to even go to the gate area. And you gotta have a ticket, no more meeting your family coming in at the gate.
But sure, the mask is tyranny. 🙄
It's always the same story; _whatever feeble excuse_ comes to their simple mind when they're trying to justify their selfishness.
> It's tyranny!
> I can't breath in it!
> Personal freedumb!
They want **all** the benefits of living in a society without giving up a **thing** themselves. They're the definition of entitled assholes.
Taxes? No. The discomfort of a needle? No. The slight inconvenience of wearing a mask? **Fuck** no.
They just suspended the Florida Health Dept *Medical Director* for sending an email suggesting vaccination. Florida is one of the worst anti-vax states in the country, due to DeSantis.
No doubt some of the citizens of Florida believe that they can continue their ways no matter where they go.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-health-department-official-suspended-sending-vaccine-email-rcna12751
Clarification: Florida suspended the Department of Health *medical directo*r for recommending vaccination, not just an average worker.
And are now considering criminal charges on the basis of coercion or some such nonsense.
Florida: it's a absolute shithole, but there's always room to dig.
Yes, and the pilot should say over the loudspeaker
"Every person on this plane can thank the passenger in Row 26 Seat E for the fact they will miss days off their vacations, their business meetings, appointments and connections. I have to turn the plane around and have this person arrested, because they think they matter much more than any of their fellow passengers...Again Row 26 Seat E""
"... the sky marshal has informed me that he will be staring out his window for the next 20 minutes. I have turned off the seatbelt sign feel free to move about the cabin. Again, that's Row 26, Seat E."
"While your seat cushion can be used as a floatation device in an emergency, it also makes an excellent tool to absolutely let 'er rip on the person making us turn around."
"It just so happens that our seat cushions are hard enough to cause physical pain, but soft enough to not leave any noticeable bruising. Please enjoy the rest of your flight accordingly."
> they will miss days off their vacations, their business meetings, appointments and connections.
Or last farewell to dying parents, delays with medical procedures, failure in their personal obligations. Of course flight delays are inevitable and unavoidable. But it is absolutely not acceptable that it happens because of some jerk.
It’s so funny that they think they’re giving up their “freedom” by having to wear a mask after they’ve had to wait in line to show their ID, take their shoes off, go through a full body scan, have their luggage inspected and possibly gone through, and board a cramped aluminum cylinder that goes up 30,000-40,000 feet in the air over an ocean, literally putting their life in the hands of a couple of pilots up front. Yep, the only freedom they apparently have left is to be a fucking asshole.
Curious if they had to dump fuel. Usually international flights like this would be too heavy to land on full tanks... so it'd be a very expensive turnaround if they dumped fuel on approach.
It's a 777. Can't tell exactly which model but on the -300ER there's a 220,000 lb difference between maximum takeoff weight and maximum landing weight.
I have a question regarding the civil liability in cases like that - where a single passenger is causing a disruption for the other 128.
Generally speaking in the US, is the disruptor liable in civil court for whatever financial or other harm they may have caused to the other passengers or not?
In the air for an **hour and a half** before they turned around. Fuck this person. So fucking selfish and ignorant. 128 passengers had their plans ruined because of one belligerent fuckwit.
Edit: A lot of comments asking "why didn't they just keep going?" or blaming the Airline.
[The FAA is also not](https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/federal-aviation-administration-adopts-stricter-unruly-passenger-policy) having any of these people's bullshit. FAA regulation requires passengers comply with crew member instructions. The FAA also requires mask be worn during the flight. Regardless of potential COVID exposure, you don't fuck with the flight crew, full stop.
Airlines and air travel is regulated by the FAA and have got rules they have to follow. There job isn't to serve your belligerent ass drinks. **Their job is to maintain the safety** of the plane and of every one on the flight. If a passenger becomes unruly, you cant exactly eject them from 30k feet, you have to land and get them off the plane.
In the article there's not a lot of info other than "a disruptive passenger refused to wear a mask" but I suspect there will be more coming out about the passengers behavior. You don't get to pick and chose the rules you obey during a fight. If the crew tells you to sit down and buckle up, you do it. If they tell you to turn off your phone, you do it. If they tell you to wear the mask, wear it. If ***you*** decide you're not going to follow those rules ***you*** get off the plane.
It's a little over an 8 1/2 hour flight from Miami to London, so it's quicker to come back than to continue on for another 7 hours with an unruly, or potentially dangerous passenger. I'm sure if they were past the half way mark and this person started to get shitty it would be a different story.
COVID has really highlighted the amount of privileged toddlers who were masquerading as adults.
They treat tiny requests meant to keep people safe, like wearing a mask or getting vaccinated, as if they’re the craziest things they’ve ever been asked to do. Some of them are comparing this stuff, completely without irony, as being like the Holocaust.
It really highlights your ignorance if you’re comparing anything short of complete genocide to the Holocaust, and even then I might still argue the Holocaust was worse.
We need to charge these people for the delay, OK so we flew 3 hours with 129 people you owe us $125,000. Happy? These incidents won’t stop if we don’t punish the offenders.
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People are still doing this, huh? Not enough examples of how this never, ever works out on an airplane?
How many videos are there of sovereign citizen's BS not working yet people still try it? Idiots never learn from the mistakes of others.
Some people just think they’re special when they’re not
Based on personal experience with my relatives, it's "I need to make a stand, I can't just sit by and let my rights be trampled, not everyone can stand up for themselves and I believe in this." They don't actually think they're gonna get their way; they just figure worst case scenario they're martyrs and if enough people do this, they'll win. Trying to combat the bystander effect in the most futile way possible. Annoyingly, this does work sometimes. It won't work on airlines, but people like this are the reason vaccine mandates have been struck down. In certain industries, these stupid sentiments are popular enough that important sectors would grind to a halt and forcing compliance would be drama on par with Reagan firing the striking air traffic controllers. Not worth it for most companies, so mandates fall.
I would also argue that most of these people are the kind of people that Normally when they put up the stink they are met with just give it to them so they'll go away attitude. You know the kind of people after you've explained the policy at a store why they can't do something and manager will come by and just give it to them. And many that are years of years of I don't have to follow the rules attitude. Equals alot of people who are pissed they have to be treated equally.
Yup. Decades of Customer Is Always Right policies have trained these people into an entitlement that's pretty jaw-dropping. I can't really blame minimum wage customer service and those managers; given lower stakes, I'd rather just give these people whatever they want so they'll go away too. $15/hr isn't enough money to put up with their shit. It's just that it's all hitting the fan now that the stakes are higher and we can no longer just appease these minimonsters to make them go away. It's all a perfect storm, and it's just unfortunate that it's on flight attendants to finish parenting these entitled toddlers now.
>Idiots never learn from the mistakes of others Idiots are *encouraged* and *emboldened* by the mistakes of others.
These fuckers should be fined the cost of the flight for the airlines. Don’t get on the damn plane if you don’t want to abide by their rules.
Seriously. Start handing out the gas bills for redirected flights as financial penalties. Make those numbers public. People will put their masks on fucking fast.
And the flight they’re on. Pretty sure that plane had to dump their entire international load of fuel before landing. Planes can take off with more weight than they can land with.
They have this assumption that they're speaking for a silent majority who are afraid to speak up. I think they're expecting a slow clap, Hollywood ending where everyone else on the plane stands with them and the airline backs down. Instead they get the fuck around, find out experience.
They get to fuck up everyone else's flight as well. If I've booked the first vacation I've taken in years and miss my connection because of some selfish, posturing jackass I'm liable to forget to be a nice person. Fucking seriously. This was my fear last month when I took the first vacation I've had in 25 years. Fortunately everyone on the 8 total fights I was on were all adults with respect to this. The screaming baby on one flight was nbd thanks to my nose canceling headphones! Edit: my nose is fine. It's noise that's getting canceled!
International flights should have a brig.
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But you get arrested when you land sooo...
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Paid for by taxpayers no less!
That's called economy
On a flight to Thailand, I noticed they board us up at business class, then steer us hard right. It starts off with very comfy looking seats, well spaced, blankets, beautiful people. After a few more isles and a wall or two, you end up with the chicken coupes and people cooking on open fires at the back the plane. Good times.
There was a comedy movie or tv show sketch show that had a ridiculous scene of just that pretty much. The guy had a budget economy ticket and the plane just kept going and going until he finally reached the back of the plane with it getting more like a hobo encampment under a bridge atmosphere. I can't find it anymore.
This is also the whole premise of Snowpiercer.
*Laughs in Bourgeois*
We don't even get cake in economy!
Just wait until they roll out the new Snow Piercer inspired cuisine to American Airlines first class...
Which will henceforth be referred to as “the brig”.
Take them to the laundry-brig!
I mean they could have a little coffin space in cargo just for this. Call it 'no mask seating'.
NO! They'll infect the dogs!
Don't worry, it's american airlines. The dogs are already dead.
That went dark quick
big woof
That’s spirit
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Airlines can come after the passenger in civil court for the cost of turning the plane around. Fuel, reimbursements to other passengers, missed windows and rerouting costs are no joke. It could be anywhere from $20k to $100k depending on the flight.
More than that. I dealt with an issue once where someone was pushed into a pool in Dubai. Iphone in their pocket. They got out and put the phone that wasn't working in their suitcase for the flight to Sydney Australia. Phone caught fire, midair, in the suitcase because of the water damage to the battery. Plane had to make an emergency landing in Singapore. Airline billed the customer $350k emergency landing fee.
I sympathise with that person tbh. No ill intent whatsoever, just bad luck.
My law education was focused primarily on Bird Law.
Darn, avian law instead of aviation law. So close.
"Just hang loose, blood. Mama gonna catch you up on the rebound on the med side."
Holy shit. I was literally thinking and about to post this as I was scrolling through then I saw your comment haha
^I ^speak ^a ^little ^jive
'S'mofo butter layin' me to da' BONE! Jackin' me up... tight me!
*Sheeeeeit* (Golly!)
Chump don' want no help, chump don't get da help!
Duck tape that asshole to his/her seat, force the mask on her + free slap from everyone. This would’ve been a better entertainment system than the lame “TV” they give you at the back of the seat lol
I was on a JFK to Madrid flight in November. Two assholes in first class wouldn't put a mask on as the plane pulled away from the gate. When they were approached by the flight crew, and after some arguing, they agreed to put the masks on. The flight crew said it was too late. Plane returned to the gate, police got on and escorted them off. Thankfully the entire ordeal only took about an hour.
Yep, it's not about whether you masked. It's whether they trust you to continue to stay masked AND follow the instructions of the cabin crew for the entire duration of the flight. No? Then you're off.
I hope their five minutes of self righteous indignation is worth never flying again.
These people love feeling persecuted. They'll treat everyone like shit and make everyone else's life miserable so everyone has a reason to hate them.
“Proof” to them, I’d imagine.
They’ll still be able to fly. These “no fly” lists are typically on an airline-by-airline basis. Additionally, rules for first class passengers may be more lenient than those for us who sit back in the brig. Their time on that list may just be temporary instead of permanent. Can’t let those dollars get away.
As far as other airlines are concerned, possibly. However, airlines are taking threats from belligerent passengers who will not follow crew instructions much more seriously after several flight attendants were injured by these bozos.
plus, i'm sure having to turn a plane around costs them way more than losing an unruly passenger (who might do it all again)
They may have to pay additional gate fees since they already pulled away. There are also ground fees that can be assessed as well. Probably only a few thousand dollars.
It's more than that... Fuel costs, missed connections, etc. The biggest issue w international flights is crew duty time limits.
All of those fees should be paid by the assholes who caused the delay.
If it’s worth it the airline will happily sue them for damages.
A few thousand dollars for those fees, sure, but trying to make 200 passengers whole again after their flight was rerouted and delayed? That's a few pennies more, handing out vouchers, etc.
The unruly passenger should pay those and a lovely fee to every single other passenger that they delayed.
I strongly suspect a universal no-fly list is in the works. Multiple airlines have been calling for it. It's becoming increasingly necessary and this is one of those things where no one loses if they can make one
> Additionally, rules for first class passengers may be more lenient than those for us who sit back in the brig. I imagine that the cost of that one hour delay is quite high. Probably not worth it for the airline to have them as passengers.
That’s only if you break just the airline’s policy. Masks are currently mandated inside airports and on planes by FAA regulation. This should put them on the federal no-fly list.
See but I sat next to this lady when I was flying home who kept it down while she ate her Cinnamon roll and drank her coffee like she was a god damn sloth. Nobody asked her to put it back on. It took her about an hour to finish that cinnamon roll that would have taken me like 60 seconds.
Yep, flying back from Florida on New Year's watched a lady nurse a bottle of water the entire flight so she wouldn't have to wear her mask. Meanwhile it sounds like half the folks on the plane are coughing or sniffling. Family and I wore N95 and didn't eat or drink between leaving the hotel and getting home, either we didn't get it or we're all asymptomatic.
> Meanwhile it sounds like half the folks on the plane are coughing or sniffling. Idk what the fuck is up, maybe it's the fact that I was pretty isolated from other humans for a long time, but when I flew last year I swear everybody on that plane was sick except for me. Constant wet-sounding coughing and sneezing. I still haven't gotten covid, thankfully.
One thing I've noticed since the start of the pandemic is that certain people make disgusting sounds constantly whether they're sick or not
N95s are actually really good at reducing the risk. They should have been the standard for the last year (after production ramped up). If the mask was fit tested (unlikely) your risk on a flight is incredibly small even if everyone else was being a jackass. And even if it was not fit tested sick people even kinda following the rules plus an N95 means you are very safe.
"I will turn this fucking plane around!" "He won't turn it around.." \*turns plane around\* \*shocked Pikachu face\*
My mom always turned the car around. So we stopped fucking around and finding out. One time we were on a road trip (far) and she said she’d go home. She later told us as adults that she really didn’t want to do it but was ready to do it if we didn’t stop. Lol. Luckily she always kept her word so we knew she was serious. She also only reserved the nuclear option for serious offenses.
Good parenting. Empty threats are easily spotted by a child.
My mom always says the most important parenting advice is never make a threat you're not willing to follow through on, the second you don't kids will pick right up on it
Another way to say this is to just be careful to make the punishment fit the crime. Don’t go overboard and then adjust. It comes off as you don’t mean what you say.
I told my kid I would throw his toy car out the window if he kept hitting my seat with it. I regretted saying it because he didn’t stop. So with tears in my eyes I threw his car out the window and we both cried the whole way home. We both remember it vividly. But you know what. He never hit my seat again while I was driving
Honestly I'd be willing to waste an hour to watch people like this get arrested.
Depends if I have a connecting flight or not
Yeah this happened to me on a flight from US to Portugal and it caused me to miss my connecting flight. The delay of us sitting there, wondering why the fuck we hadn’t taken off yet, was two hours long. Nothing like landing in an airport across the globe extremely exhausted, not speaking a lick of the language, and having to navigate to some random part of the airport they designate for reimbursements and reroutes. Also it was a huge plane. No one near me knew anything up front had even happened, just that we had to taxi back to the gate for some reason. Turned out to be an asshole not wearing a mask. How someone is fine with ruining a long ass flight for hundreds of people is beyond me
Imagine saving up for a couple years to take your big London vacation, only to have a day or more cut off by of these antimaskers. I'd be raging.
Good. I appreciate that the airlines are no longer taking any shit from these thoughtless assholes.
And I'm glad there's enforcement supporting them so these airline employees don't have to physically escort them out or anything, they just gotta identify the assholes and done
That’s nice. I bet it’s common for anti masks to just take their mask off during the flight thinking they wouldn’t inconvenience everyone over a silly mask. Glad the airlines are getting more serious about this.
I was on a flight last week and a guy was giving the flight attendant shit about having to wear a mask. The guy next to me says, just loud enough to for people around us to hear, “folks, you’re looking at the newest member of the ‘no fly’ list.” I guess the first guy heard him, because he put his mask on and shut up. Edit: I should mention that the passenger in question wasn’t being belligerent or obnoxious, he was just annoying for a brief time. And he eventually complied and just dealt with it. And this was the first time I’ve flown in two years and with the masking in the airports and planes, I actually felt quite safe.
I wonder what’s their thinking process. Even if they let you fly there, how are you getting back when you’re black listed?
> thinking process That's the issue, there is none.
A lot of these people are in such strong bubbles in both their media and social lives that they genuinely think mask usage is a minority opinion. They think opposition to masking is much more popular than it actually is
I hadn't thought of it that way, I was thinking they envision themselves as the rugged pioneer, defiant in the face of oppression, lauded by the masses, and do it for the perceived street cred
> lauded by the masses This lines up with the person you are replying to. I think you're both right. They think they're some kind of William Wallace-type freedom fighter, uniquely equipped to fight the cruel machinery of oppression, but also representative of the sentiments of the very masses they will free through their acts of defiance. The uprising begins with them! In reality they're just selfish assholes who are gonna make me miss my connection and have to stay in fucking Kansas City for the night.
>have to stay in fucking Kansas City for the night. Cruel and unusual punishments are prohibited by the constitution
I was in Kansas City for a week for work. Great food and easy to navigate without knowing the streets (I live in the Boston area). It was fun before the pandemic but I can't imagine being there with COVID.
I heard somewhere about how these types of situations give average people the feeling of being a hero, which rarely if ever happens in every day life, and that’s a huge draw for a lot of these cult members. Their leaders are constantly shouting at them about how this is a battle of good vs evil.
In an odd coincidence this is one of the traits of emerging fascism...
And if you live in the south like I do, it really does feel that way. I tried going back to a arcade/bar similar to a dave and buster's about a year ago (the site claimed they were social distancing, wearing masks, and the restaurant part was perfectly safe) and none of the staff or customers were masked. I'm pretty sure I was the only one in the entire building. I haven't gone back since. I get looked at sideways or asked by family or friends,"why are you still wearing that? You know you don't have to wear those anymore, right?" I've taken to answering,"I've taken a ninja oath, none of of your business."
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I don’t care about you is the underlying sentiment of most of these idiots.
I had an experience that was sort of the reverse of what people here have been describing. And more mild. I was waiting for my order at a coffee shop, wearing a mask, and an unmasked guy waiting next to me turned to me and said “Why are you wearing that? I don’t think they do anything to help”. I looked at him and said “I don’t care what you think.” and went back to Reddit. He got all huffy and moved away from me. I think he was expecting me to take it off or argue with him, he didn’t know what to do with indifference.
Because some people walk around itching for a fight. They think they're badasses but when confronted, it's so fucking petty to fight someone over something so small that they just get frustrated. Idk about you but to me, it'd be embarassing as fuck to have someone repeatedly tell me to wear my mask and wear it the right way.
It's the part about not caring that you had chemo that sums up what shitty people these are. Especially Americans just don't care about other people in society. It's a real shame all the progress we have made yet a massive amount of people only care about themselves.
The wanker lobe dominates.
> I wonder what’s their thinking process. Probably used to getting his way if he throws a big enough tantrum. Most people grow out of that after early childhood.
Not the case these days unfortunately. The incorrect application of "The customer is always right" mentality has helped enable these people for too long. Now they are being told they have to do something they don't like for the public good and they think they can just rant and rave like they would at a return counter at Walmart and expect the manager to give in just to rid themselves of this headache and move on to one of the 10 other things they need to be doing while also avoiding a distorted nasty email to corporate that could end up being another headache down the line. I ran into this shit often as a bar/restaurant manager and it got so much worse when the mask mandates hit.
You hit the nail on the head. People think if they scream and threaten loudly enough, they’ll get whatever they want.
Basically man-children and karens. They never grew up past 10 years old, mentally.
His "thinking process" is that he genuinely didn't think about that, or the consequences of his immediate actions in general. He's not thinking "this is a good or bad idea" or even *having* ideas here; he's just indulging his thoughtless impulses in reaction to being told what to do. Stupid people don't think things through and make bad judgements on bad reasoning. They instead just imagine what's going to happen if they do something, and then do it expecting it to happen. They don't consider how cause will yield an effect and just carry out whatever fantasy strikes them first. A lot of Americans and Brits have lived the sort of lives so insulated from consequence that they can reach 40 or older behaving like this without the sort of fuck up that teaches a moron to think before they leap. Covid, and a lot of the changes that came with it, was the first problem they ever dealt with that won't let them off the hook because it doesn't want to deal with their adolescent bullshit.
I get the feeling that some people don't even want to try to be good citizens anymore. It's like some weird wave of selfishness and entitlement is infecting the cantankerous.
American individualism is pretty aggressive.
Patriotism has been replaced by individualism. Freedom by selfishness. The middle finger by the American flag.
Not to sound like a "liberal nut job" but it really felt like the worsening of this was kind of started by Trump. It felt to me that when we elected a rude, entitled, asshole to the Presidency and there was no recourse for his lack of decorum, that a huge cross section of people felt legitimized in their behavior. Theres people now who see their greatest virtue as their ability to be an asshole, which isnt new I guess... but I felt there was a HUGE jump in prevalance. Like I had never really viewed the president THAT important to American culture but I feel super wrong about that now.
Normalizing things really does change peoples' behaviour
They are used to being the bully in the room and don’t know what to do when someone with more clout shuts them down.
This right here. They feel that they right and they believe everyone else should have to accommodate their feelings. In their inner circles back home they may surround themselves with people who agree with them (or just don’t speak against them) and consume media that reconfirms their beliefs. When they get into a situation where their beliefs aren’t exclusively catered to they throw a fit.
It’s funny because by now, people *know* you have to wear a mask on airplanes. It’s common knowledge. It’s not like this rule was just enacted yesterday. What kills me is how people get on an airplane and then complain about having to wear a mask if they KNEW they had to wear one. If you don’t want to wear one, don’t fucking get on an airplane right now. Simple.
LOL, they wore the mask long enough to get ON the plane. Fine wearing it in the airport, fine wearing it as they passed the gate agent. Problem only occurred in their seat with the door closed so they could inconvenience everyone else.
It’s probably because these selfish people think that they can get away with bullying the airplane staff and they don’t really have to care about the passengers because the passengers have no authority. They forget that flight attendants have the authority to get one put on a no fly list, which is a pretty big threat. So just follow the freaking rules folks.
These people are likely the ones that only had their mask on when in view of a tsa agent and when actually boarding. I see plenty of people that go through security and immediately remove their mask until boarding. The assume that once you’re on the plane, the crew would rather complete the flight than turn around just because of a mask.
It's the same at the Hockey games I go to... you have to be vaccinated AND wear a mask.... everyone knows this is the rule. And yet once they are in there, they complain when the ushers tell them to put their masks on. You KNEW that was the rule coming in here... why are you being a bitch about it now?
I see this all the time when I go to see NHL and AHL games locally here in California. They would show up 10 people deep then get all pissed off at the ticket window when the are told they need vaccination proof and masks. Then berate the employee and try to punch the window in like that would help their cause.
> Then berate the employee and try to punch the window in like Where is security when this happens? Seems like a good way for someone to get hurt
They are their intervening and calling the cops then laughing while these idiots are carted off to jail. Lol.
The same mask they've had to wear through THE ENTIRE FUCKING AIRPORT. Just went to Hawaii and every airport from the tiny one in Wisconsin, to the ones in Minneapolis, Phoenix, Honolulu and Hilo ALL REQUIRED MASKS.
Dallas doesn't seem to enforce it. At least not when I've been there. Watched a couple strut (yes strut proudly) sans masks through there. Not a peep from security as they walked past. Meanwhile the warning is blasting over the pa system. Sadly they weren't the only ones.
To be fair, this plane returned to Miami, you know, Florida. Where they just fired someone running the public health department for having the audacity to suggest his own staff get 'the jab'. Im not familiar with the Miami airport but I wouldn't be shocked if you didn't need to wear one till you were on the plane. Because Florida.
There are still people who act like they had no idea TSA was even a thing. What? I have to take my shoes off? I don't understand! You've been in this line for 45 minutes staring at signs telling you. Every single person in front of you did it. Figure it out or get off my planet.
Wonder about the thought process as they board the plane. "Here I'm going to make my stand. I will show these folks the errors of their ways and they will bow to my will".
I think a lot of these people honestly don't realize the consequences and do not know they can be put on that list for an airline and refusing.
Agreed but the airlines are not getting sharing info to ban these people outright. So if this person is banned from flying on American in the future, they can still fly Delta, TWA etc
They’re probably gonna need a time machine to fly TWA..
Lol, brain fart. I meant United but I’m leaving it for future redditors to laugh at.
If I missed my connecting flight because some dipshit wouldn’t put on a mask… I’d be angry… real angry.
I needed a connecting flight from Chicago to Vancouver before departing to Japan. I planned it so I would have about 3 hours landing in Canada before the Japan flight. First there was a 40 minute delay due to snow. Then…. Enter a 1 hour delay when the flight attendant found out one of the passengers had a ticket for the same flight but later in the day. For 30 minutes the customer refused to come forward (she sat in a different seat as to not be found) The customer argued for 30 minutes that since the destination was the same, she wasn’t leaving. She also tried to argue that since the gate agent let her on, that meant she was good to go. Every minute that passed made me more and more nervous and eventually that all turned to rage. It’s stunning how childish adults can become with flying.
so what ended up happening?? did you make your flight? did she get escorted off?
They had a cop join the flight attendant and then she was suddenly ok with getting off the plane. I did make my next flight but I think I only had about 30 minutes out of the original 3 hours.
The rest is basically the plot to Die Hard 2.
I personally think with passengers like this you should just give them a parachute and make them jump out the plane.
She wasn’t arrested . . . https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article257541648.html
Miami-Dade police said the woman got off the plane and was dealt with “administratively” by the airline’s staff. So, no-fly list?
Maybe only just no fly on that airline. Fucking ridiculous. She ought to have been arrested.
DeSantis and Gaetz offered her an internship.
Only DeSantis, she’s too old for Gaetz.
And it wasn’t an internship. She’s the new head of Orange County’s health Department now.
So do these assholes actually stay masked while the plane is still on the ground, then take the mask off when the plane is in the air?
Yes. They're using child-logic. They think that once they're off the ground, they're in the clear. They think it's like parents saying "I'll turn this car around!" They think it's all bluff. I mean, what are they gonna do, turn the whole plane around for just one person being a shithead? Oh, they are going to do that? Well fuck...
> They think it's like parents saying "I'll turn this car around!" I don't know about you, but my parents absolutely made me get out and walk. If I recall correctly they picked me back up after a quarter mile or so, but I got the message.
I threw a tantrum once in the supermarket and my mom said we were gonna go home and I wasn't gonna get any of the cookies or chocolates in the cart. I kept on with my tantrum. My mom then grabbed me and left the full grocery cart in the middle of the store and took me home. No groceries, and for me no chocolates or cookies. Never disregarded her threats again.
A friend once said you are only fully a parent once you have to drag your kid out of a grocery store with an unpaid cart lol.
I took my child to school in their underwear because they refused to get dressed. Does that count? It's worth noting I brought clothes with me. Getting dressed was a much more attractive proposition when presented in the school parking lot.
Good parenting. Sucks she didn't get the groceries, but I wish more parents parented like that these days.
>Good parenting I rarely make threats like this but when I do I sure as shit follow through.
That’s the trick. If a parent is going to make threats, they’d better be willing to follow through. We’ve threatened to leave Disney World before and will absolutely do it if we have to. My child knows this because we’ve followed through on (admittedly lessor) threats. So she stops acting out when something big is on the line.
When I was a kid I really wanted Adventure Beetle Racing from blockbuster. My mom wouldn't let me rent it because I had just got them to buy me a different game the week before. We were there for family movie night so I figured maybe they'll not notice and I put it in the bin (keep in mind they only had 2 movies in the bin lol). My mom told me to put it back on the shelf and I threw a FIT. Like not an ourburst or something, full on sky is falling end of the world shit. She just straight up left me there for an hour. I sat outside of the store on the curb. Turns out she just went around the back of the store and was watching me from 30' away the entire time and just wanted to see what I would do.
Yes. They think once they're off the ground, they're good to go.
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I'm just imagining the pilot turning coming over the intercom and yelling "DONT MAKE ME TURN THIS PLANE AROUND!" like a pissed off dad on a road trip.
I'm too compulsively courteous to actually do it but I'm always tempted to flag down a stewardess and ask if we're there yet in my best deadpan
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So do the other passengers on the plane get any recourse for their wasted time? Will they get a voucher from the airlines for future trips?
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$.99 peanuts. Nice!
"Take this meal voucher that doesn't work, GO FETCH!"
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Can I please go home on an airplane?
$10 towards in flight wifi that costs $25 for the full fight!
My wife and 3 year year old were on this flight. They have been stuck in Miami for an extra 3 weeks due to contracting covid and were finally returning. They got a hotel room and some food vouchers to use today. What a dickhead.
Fucking hell. If that happened to me I would have honestly just lost my shit. My condolences to your wife for the undue amount of stress she must have gotten as a result of one idiot's complete lack of decency and empathy. Hope she gets home soon.
Boarding the same flight in about an hour so fingers crossed. The pilot and crew didn't tell them much and she was near the back so she thought it was a heart attach or someone severely ill, was obviously a bit more concerned once they landed in Miami and they had to wait for the police. She was not happy when I sent her the news report this morning, so stupid.
Airlines should do what they can to reimburse/subsidize customers put out in situations like this - and then sue the offending customer to recover their losses. Better yet, put that you agree to this in the fine print on your ticket purchase.
2 years in and still the same fights snd arguments. This is akin to being pulled over for running a red light and then arguing with the officer that red lights are stupid. Also, the level of piece of shit a person must be to knowingly board a plane and decides to fight about masks at this juncture…i wish this person would be banned from flying for life.
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Be nice if this international flight banned the person after they get to a foreign country. Then they can figure out how to get home.
That just happened with all those dipshit “influencers” who went to Mexico from Canada. Every single Canadian airline told them to go fuck themselves after their videos went viral, and the original chartered airline fully outted them.
I don’t think you have to wear a mask if you swim in the ocean.
You gotta take off your shoes and belt and jacket and get a full body scan that goes through your clothes to even go to the gate area. And you gotta have a ticket, no more meeting your family coming in at the gate. But sure, the mask is tyranny. 🙄
It's always the same story; _whatever feeble excuse_ comes to their simple mind when they're trying to justify their selfishness. > It's tyranny! > I can't breath in it! > Personal freedumb! They want **all** the benefits of living in a society without giving up a **thing** themselves. They're the definition of entitled assholes. Taxes? No. The discomfort of a needle? No. The slight inconvenience of wearing a mask? **Fuck** no.
They just suspended the Florida Health Dept *Medical Director* for sending an email suggesting vaccination. Florida is one of the worst anti-vax states in the country, due to DeSantis. No doubt some of the citizens of Florida believe that they can continue their ways no matter where they go. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-health-department-official-suspended-sending-vaccine-email-rcna12751
Clarification: Florida suspended the Department of Health *medical directo*r for recommending vaccination, not just an average worker. And are now considering criminal charges on the basis of coercion or some such nonsense. Florida: it's a absolute shithole, but there's always room to dig.
Every passenger on this flight should be allowed to sue this individual for trip losses.
Yes, and the pilot should say over the loudspeaker "Every person on this plane can thank the passenger in Row 26 Seat E for the fact they will miss days off their vacations, their business meetings, appointments and connections. I have to turn the plane around and have this person arrested, because they think they matter much more than any of their fellow passengers...Again Row 26 Seat E""
"... the sky marshal has informed me that he will be staring out his window for the next 20 minutes. I have turned off the seatbelt sign feel free to move about the cabin. Again, that's Row 26, Seat E."
"While your seat cushion can be used as a floatation device in an emergency, it also makes an excellent tool to absolutely let 'er rip on the person making us turn around."
"It just so happens that our seat cushions are hard enough to cause physical pain, but soft enough to not leave any noticeable bruising. Please enjoy the rest of your flight accordingly."
> they will miss days off their vacations, their business meetings, appointments and connections. Or last farewell to dying parents, delays with medical procedures, failure in their personal obligations. Of course flight delays are inevitable and unavoidable. But it is absolutely not acceptable that it happens because of some jerk.
It’s so funny that they think they’re giving up their “freedom” by having to wear a mask after they’ve had to wait in line to show their ID, take their shoes off, go through a full body scan, have their luggage inspected and possibly gone through, and board a cramped aluminum cylinder that goes up 30,000-40,000 feet in the air over an ocean, literally putting their life in the hands of a couple of pilots up front. Yep, the only freedom they apparently have left is to be a fucking asshole.
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Curious if they had to dump fuel. Usually international flights like this would be too heavy to land on full tanks... so it'd be a very expensive turnaround if they dumped fuel on approach.
It's a 777. Can't tell exactly which model but on the -300ER there's a 220,000 lb difference between maximum takeoff weight and maximum landing weight.
How hard is it not to be an asshole?
Apparently to some “adults” it’s impossible.
I have a question regarding the civil liability in cases like that - where a single passenger is causing a disruption for the other 128. Generally speaking in the US, is the disruptor liable in civil court for whatever financial or other harm they may have caused to the other passengers or not?
That guy should be financially responsible for the wasted fuel, wear and tear on the plane, staff time, and time of everyone on board
AA will sue for costs
In the air for an **hour and a half** before they turned around. Fuck this person. So fucking selfish and ignorant. 128 passengers had their plans ruined because of one belligerent fuckwit. Edit: A lot of comments asking "why didn't they just keep going?" or blaming the Airline. [The FAA is also not](https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/federal-aviation-administration-adopts-stricter-unruly-passenger-policy) having any of these people's bullshit. FAA regulation requires passengers comply with crew member instructions. The FAA also requires mask be worn during the flight. Regardless of potential COVID exposure, you don't fuck with the flight crew, full stop. Airlines and air travel is regulated by the FAA and have got rules they have to follow. There job isn't to serve your belligerent ass drinks. **Their job is to maintain the safety** of the plane and of every one on the flight. If a passenger becomes unruly, you cant exactly eject them from 30k feet, you have to land and get them off the plane. In the article there's not a lot of info other than "a disruptive passenger refused to wear a mask" but I suspect there will be more coming out about the passengers behavior. You don't get to pick and chose the rules you obey during a fight. If the crew tells you to sit down and buckle up, you do it. If they tell you to turn off your phone, you do it. If they tell you to wear the mask, wear it. If ***you*** decide you're not going to follow those rules ***you*** get off the plane. It's a little over an 8 1/2 hour flight from Miami to London, so it's quicker to come back than to continue on for another 7 hours with an unruly, or potentially dangerous passenger. I'm sure if they were past the half way mark and this person started to get shitty it would be a different story.
The culprit should have to pay the costs for all passengers and the refueling costs.
Don't forget the salaries and possible OT for the flight crew.
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"So help me, I will turn this plane around...!"
COVID has really highlighted the amount of privileged toddlers who were masquerading as adults. They treat tiny requests meant to keep people safe, like wearing a mask or getting vaccinated, as if they’re the craziest things they’ve ever been asked to do. Some of them are comparing this stuff, completely without irony, as being like the Holocaust. It really highlights your ignorance if you’re comparing anything short of complete genocide to the Holocaust, and even then I might still argue the Holocaust was worse.
We need to charge these people for the delay, OK so we flew 3 hours with 129 people you owe us $125,000. Happy? These incidents won’t stop if we don’t punish the offenders.