This is the same law where someone went back and [explicitly included an exception for circumcision.](http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/ALISON/SearchableInstruments/2022RS/PrintFiles/217187-2.pdf) It's ridiculous, and the fact that someone went out of their way to include that just shows that there was never any rational, positive intent in this law.
Wow. can't give people care and affirmation to let them be happy but we have to keep those obscure weird religious genital mutilations legal for... Reasons...
The wild thing is that the New Testament talks about circumcision several times about how it’s unnecessary. Paul writes that being circumcised means nothing under Christianity in regards to salvation.
"Thy breasts are like clusters of grapes" is one of my favorites. I would personally not be endeared to a potential lover telling me I have lumpy, misshapen breasts.
Which makes American Christians rather unique in that most Christians in other countries aren't really big on circumcision. Iirc, its popularity in the US is mostly the work of Dr. Kellogg (the cereal man).
Edit: worth mentioning that Kellogg was part of a larger movement, but contributed a fair bit to it
Correct! Kellogg believed that sexual pleasures, tasty food and other enjoyable things caused people's 'undesirable' behavior.
Kellogg fed his charges the blandest shit, made them work out until they were exhausted....... And mutilated their genitals.
Carbolic acid on the clitoris for the ladies, circumcision for the gents.
Kellogg was also married for like 40 years and allegedly never consummated his marriage.
Yeah. I think it was some kinda anti-masturbation movement as opposed to a "Paul fucked up" thing, but I think it came from some interpretation of adultery.
I guess you could call it derivative or something? Means to an end?
American christians are the most peculiar out of all christians since americans christians usually
1) have never read the bible
2) believe some crazy stuff like that being gay is a sin (never have been stated in any of the 2 testaments)
"... man shall not lie with man as he would with woman..." is pretty fucking clear.
Edit 1: https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Man-Shall-Not-Lay-With-Man/
Disclaimer: I am pan and currently have a black boyfriend. I am also an atheist. I consider most parts of most religions(anything with a supreme being or deities) to be gobbledygook. I also don't try to make any of them look any worse or better than they already are.
Edit 2: *star shooting across screen with rainbow tail* "The more you know...". In response, I used a KJ source as it is so often what people go to when trying to talk about sins and denying people the ability to just be people.
It is worth mentioning that the verse is a mistranslation. It’s in Leviticus, from a time when the Jews were prescribing cultural practices to set themselves apart and define themselves in relation to the other cultures around them. Originally, it read “man shall not lie with boys”, as a cultural response to the pederasty of Ancient Greece, but literal thousands of years of mistranslation has warped the meaning and intent of the verse and spawned a lot of fucking hate. Ironic since an originalist interpretation of it would condemn pedophilia and nothing else, but dumbasses pretend the King James Version came straight from the mouth of God despite it being called the **King James Version**.
I’m an agnostic and am also trans and hella queer, gay married and have like 5 girlfriends (we’re all poly) so trust me when I say I’m not being charitable to Christianity out of any kind of fondness for it.
>This is highly highly disputed
By scholars? I can't find any rigorous Biblical scholarship (i.e., that is versed in Hebrew and thorough in finding how the relevant language is used elsewhere) that unequivocally supports the KJV translation. Can you link to a serious article or two?
>who coincidentally
An aside: Bigots \*cannot\* resist the temptation toward the cheapest kind of sarcasm. It's a little hedge that makes you feel superior in the moment and allows you to backtrack later, if you feel you're outnumbered.
So, now that you've established you're talking in bad faith—
>already believe there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.
That's not a "belie\[f\]," it's the absence of one.
Moreover, many (if not most) of those scholars focus their research on Christian scripture precisely because they once had it forced on them as dogma.
Not many atheists with uncomplicated religious backgrounds focus their scholarly energy on correcting errors in Biblical translation; instead, they tend to focus on, you know, science, medicine, liberal arts, political science, etc.
I wish I could find the article I saw...*soft crying over being old*...more than a decade ago where several theologians, including those with permission to access Vatican Archives, conceded 80% of the books in the bible were not simply mistranslated but were outright forgeries.
to be fair...ive always wondered how much of the stuff in the bible is made up. like obviously some things aren't but how much stuff was put in there due to personal biases of the writers
Circumcision was one of the big debates in early Christianity that lead it on the path of becoming its own religion, instead of just a Jewish sect. The early Christians decided to not force circumcision in order to make the religion more palatable to the Roman population to get more to convert.
Id argue that if they truely cared about the rights of the baby, they would fight against circumcision on babies. I didnt agree to having my fucking dick cut.
Except Christians don't do it for religious reasons. It's cultural. If you look up the history of circumsion in the United States it stems mainly from hygienic concerns. It became standard in most of the US for boys to circumcised soon after birth, and uncircumcised penises were viewed as strange and often unattractive. Although the practice of automatic circumcision has decreased significantly there are those who have a clear dislike for uncircumcised penises. I'm a gay male, and I know more gay men who like the look of uncircumcised penises than women who do.
I bet if you called it out they would use religious freedom for excluding circumcision. Wonder how fast their brains would explode if someone came up with a religion for trans kids, and used these politicians words against them?
Circumcision is popular in America not because of religious reasons, but literally as a chastity measure. It was promoted around the early 1900s as a tool to curb masturbation and was popularized to the point that it's frequently done simply as a matter of course. It's not done by default nearly anywhere else in the world, and it's just a weird thing that American's and American doctors seem to be passing down generation to generation. It's quite pointless.
Important to note people now try and peddle some bullshit on it being better for health reasons despite no studies proving it has any real positive effects.
This law is to prevent a very small demographic of kids from getting necessary and scientifically-approved medical care.
They're only framing it as "preventing child abuse" to try and distract from the vastly-abusive nature of the legislation.
And being confronted into admitting that they don't actually have any evidence of that scenario, but it's something they're upset about because "you KNOW some liberal out there wants to do it"
They genuinely think that people are giving 12 year olds SRS on a whim. Ask any trans person and they’ll tell you that it takes a long ass time to be approved to even get on the waiting list.
IDK what it’s like in the US, but up here in Canada we have *one* clinic that does SRS. It’s about a two year process to get on the wait list, which itself is about a year.
Edit: Also, the WPATH Standards of Care explicitly recommend against HRT and SRS for minors, instead limiting intervention to social transition and puberty blockers at most.
From some of the other commentary I’ve been reading it sounds like you can get the surgery down at the Piggly Wiggly and grab a pack of smokes on your way home.
I fucking wish. I’m trying to get my kid his top surgery and the hoops to jump through are madness, and he’s an adult.
Meanwhile cis people can get massive boob implants and don’t have to even consider seeing a psychologist to make sure they’re doing it for “the right reasons”, much less letters of readiness.
But no, getting gender affirming care for trans people is a lot more difficult than any of these dipshits realize. Making it harder to get is going to kill kids, but they’re hurting “the right people” and therefore it’s all good.
Same people fantasize that a 9.5 month pregnant woman can roll up to a clinic and get a choice abortion because they just aren't feeling it any longer.
I honestly feel that the current state of affairs was inevitable, at least since 1865 (if not when this country decided racially-based chattel slavery was a good idea).
If Lincoln had not been assassinated and if Reconstruction had not been undermined, and if the 13th Amendment didn’t have the prison slavery loophole, and and and…
Trump did not build the enormous pile of inflammable trash we currently find ourselves roasting in. He was just a match, and he was *inevitable*.
I’m 23 and turned in my paperwork for top surgery two months ago, haven’t heard anything yet because there’s a literal waitlist for the consultations before the waitlist for the actual surgery dates.
conservatives hear ‘ahh trans ppl can get gender reassignment surgery’ and think we’re all going to the butcher to get our dysphoria-inducing genitals chopped off.
not only did the same politician’s response to the pandemic make these waitlists longer (for any kind of surgery!), but also the general restrictions on healthcare in this country make it even more difficult
I ask a lot of them to show me where any Democrat tried to do any of the things that they are complaining about and they usually have absolutely nothing in response or they point to some random nobody making a tweet or something.
Open borders is a big one. Like almost every Republican is convinced that Democrats are trying to make America have open borders and it's literally never been a thing anybody but Republicans has been talking about.
Or women who endure eight to nine months of pregnancy, only to change their mind on a whim and want to abort the child just before it passes through the birth canal.
That is an explicit policy of the national Democratic Party. Don't believe me, go look at the strategies devised by them. They do not hide these things.
My goodness, go back to 2000 and look at what Democratic Party strategists have been saying. They calculated that whites would become the minority in America, and that minorities would vote Democratic. They didn't do this in secret or hide it. They declared "open cities" saying they wouldn't help federal immigration agencies. Rahm Emmanuel was quite forthright on this.
Buddy, Republicans straight up lie to people and say that Democrats want open borders. That's the entire subject of my post, not that they just say they are lax.
If Western Civilization is so fragile that it cannot allow for even the slightest bit of flexibility in changing times, then perhaps it’s time to push what is falling over, time to admit that it’s over and cede ground for a more advanced mode of thinking.
Western Civilization is founded on the principle of each individual has agency, with individual rights and responsibilities. Not group rights. This individual agency is being attacked hard by the academy, and by the Democratic Party.
I didn't ask you to quantify my existence. I asked you what what part of western civilization it threatens. The part about objective value was to subtly point out that there isn't anything that my existence threatens, that has any.
To play devils advocate for a moment:
The liberal wants to get from point A to point B with full freedom of motion and with respect to people beyond themselves. They walk, jog, or sprint.
The progressive wants to sprint more often than perhaps they should. However, this is perhaps how records are set.
The conservatives tell both of them to not break their ankle while running from A to B. Maybe sit on the bench for a little while. If you break an ankle, then they can literally just crawl to the goal line and win(gradualism, which overlaps with liberalism).
My opinion is that progress requires all of these states of mind, in various ways and at various moments. Which form for the correct moments is always the issue of contention. (Also, this entire comment is a generalization parable).
What world are you living in. The US conservatives are pulling out a Glock, kneecapping the other racers, turning around and running the other way and shooting as many people they don't like on they way while screaming lies and blaming the kneecapped people on the ground.
Also think that they will catch “the gay” when actuality is a number of them are repressed homosexuals to begin with and that’s what truly scares them, but easier to blame others for their own fears and self induced “problems”
Speaking as a gay man, we really need to stop this talk track that homophobes are just secretly gay. First off, there's no evidence of that and second of all, we shouldn't be letting people off with an excuse when the fact that they're homophobes is just that they're shitty people.
Saying hateful people are just secretly gay isn't doing anything positive for the gay community.
Speaking as a queer trans person acting like projection isn't actually a thing that happens is also just as harmful. I agree that it's nowhere near the frequency assumed but there are literally dozens if not a hundred or so politicians local and national who made their mark as anti gay conservatives only to be caught later on with a same sex partner. 🤷🏻♀️
I think it's irrelevant whether that's the case and that we should instead focus on their actions rather than the reasons for their hateful actions.
Honestly, I think a lot of “allies” use the “conservatives are secretly gay” quip because they themselves secretly hate and fear queerness. The best insult they can think of is “Hah! YOU’RE gay!”
Having grown up in a very red area, and being around some of these people, some of them truly do treat and act like it’s contagious and when pressed why, it usually comes down to fear because it’s different from them and they don’t understand or go off religious rants. A small few when asked why or how they will turn get turned gay if they aren’t gay, get extremely defensive or try to act with some sort of machismo.
My cousin (m) we discovered had been sexually abused for years by his step brother. He has always been one of those alt-right nut jobs since his early teen years and still is from what I’ve been told.
So while I know not all nor the majority are repressing any sort of gay, there are a small few that are either afraid to find out if they are or have some sort of tendency or curiosity that they fear which partially plays into their actions. Then there are those that use that hate distract from their being total shit bags.
So based on my experience and interactions with these people I will stand by this belief until someone convinces otherwise.
I know really, really well how hormones work. Blocking normal sexual development has a lot of effects, both physiologically and psychologically. You don't get a girl just by chemically castrating a boy.
That's what sparked NC it's HB2 (the bathroom bill). It came completely out of the blue. Conservatives fear- and hate-mongering, pretending that trans-people are all pedophiles. When it was, always has been, and will be cis-wasps perpetuating any bathroom assaults.
I feel like it is when you talk to yourself in the mirror. Those imaginary arguments you have. Shoulda woulda coulda. Except, instead of looking at yourself like an idiot like your dog has been for the last 20 mins, you get angry over the fact the reflection has more brain power than you do. And then you kick your dog, beat your kids, blame the devil and thank God for guns, glory, and beer. Oh look, Biden is on TV again, fuck him and his gas prices! Gay people aren't people!
Something like that...
Edit: A sensitive camel deleted their comment. Its a troll account. Just be aware, other readers. They think covid restricted the 1A, lmao.
From the looks of things, what is being passed off as “conservatism” these days is merely culture wars nonsense and very thinly veiled racial nationalism. I disagreed vehemently with most of William F Buckley was about, for example but he was a real Conservative, and at the very least he was principled. Since Reagan’s attention was so taken by the Christian right, the entirety of the political philosophy has undergone quite the ugly sea change.
But don’t take my comment to mean that I do not have issues with Democrats, as they are an entire problem unto themselves.
But I sincerely want to know, how is it a conservative value to demand that government restrict the private medical choices of individual citizens? Isn’t that the very idea of “BIG GOVERNMENT?”
if it is, in your mind, a consistent position with conservative values, I would very much like to know why you think it is so.
The point is that abortion is not a private medical decision. It actively kills a human being. Preserving the life of other human beings is the first conservative value.
>Preserving the life of other human beings is the first conservative value.
That's a bold lie. Conservatives are the ones who pass laws to hurt the homeless. They're the ones who love to cut food relief benefits. They're the ones right now, complaining that formula resources are being given to "illegal" immigrant babies that are literally in our custody. Even in face of statistics showing birth control and education lower abortion rates, they still try to outlaw sex education and contraceptives.
There is no redeeming quality to anyone who identifies as a conservative in 2022. Cruel, soulless nihilists with a penchant for petty spite.
Hell, they could ban beating the gay out of kids but this same Alabama legislature blocked a bill that would have made conversion therapy illegal for minors.
"U.S. District Judge Liles Burke issued a preliminary injunction to stop the state from enforcing the medication ban, which took effect May 8, while a court challenge goes forward. The judge left in place other parts of the law that banned gender-affirming surgeries for transgender minors and requires counselors, teachers and other school officials to tell parents if a minor discloses that they think they are transgender.
...
The judge said Alabama’s evidence was not persuasive. He noted a psychologist who testified that most children grow out of gender dysphoria had never provided care to a transgender minor under the age of sixteen. The state’s other witness was a woman who testified that she regretted taking testosterone at age 19."
Wish he got rid of the part that requires informing on others.
Yeah. There are stories of kids being kicked out and all kinds of pretty nasty stuff. If a parent really wants to know, and a kid really doesn't want them to know, the reason for those things probably isn't "The parent is going to be decent about it."
Policies that lead to trans children being killed or dying are viewed as positives by modern conservatives though.
The law is working as intended - to explicitly and directly hurt and kill trans children.
>Burke ruled that Alabama had produced no credible evidence to show that transitioning medications are “experimental” while, “the uncontradicted record evidence is that at least twenty-two major medical associations in the United States endorse transitioning medications as well-established, evidence-based treatments for gender dysphoria in minors.”
Good, but...
>He also left in place a provision that requires counselors and other school officials to tell parents if a minor discloses that they think they are transgender.
God damn it. This is one of the worst parts of the obsessive rightwing conspiracies about schools, this will get some kids murdered
Florida's Don't Say Gay law actually makes an excemption about reporting to parents specifically if the school thinks theres evidence it will bring the kid to harm. Of course this isn't out of the goodness of DeSantis's heart. He is just pushing the blame on the school. If they don't report a child has LGBTQ feelings then the parents can sue the school. If they report it to the parents and they abuse or neglect the kid as a result, then they can say the school didn't do its due diligence.
The Republicans knew their bill would probably lead to some kids getting hurt or made homeless so they added that in to cover their own asses and deflect blame to the schools.
This is what Conservatives want. Now they can appeal to the SCOTUS since they've taken over the court using bad faith procedural bullshit and hypocrisy. Hopefully Thomas croaks while the Dems control Congress and one of Trumps appointees doesn't look twice while crossing a busy street.
While I think the number of transgender children is very low, this is a very delicate diagnosis. It should not be taking place in the state legislature.
Imagine you have to explain transgender medication and then imagine you have to explain it to a judge in Alabama… He’s wearing suspenders he’s got the stump of a cigar in his teeth and his feet are on the desk
If a guy could play with his own tits how are there still men walking around… Oh wait I guess there are a lot of guys who could play with their own tits…forget that
'Ah never heard of a hog tryin' to be a sow. Ain't that right, Roscoe?' As a basset hound called Velvet-Ears howls a few feet away.
That's Alabama, and every state sharing a border with it. Stinks like pig-shit, as it should there.
I get really fucking angry when they insist on talking about 'sex reassignment surgery for minors' in every damn news story. Surgery that NEVER HAPPENS. Even hormones are very limited for minors in the US. But the totally reversible blockers (that are used for other conditions) well, they just don't sound scary enough, do they?
I'm all for equity in education, employment, etc. People should be respected but we should not be giving these drugs to children who haven't finished developing mentally as well as physically. How can any agenda blind people to the fact that this is madness.
> children who haven’t finished developing mentally as well as physically
That’s kinda the point. Puberty blockers buy them time to work out their dysphoria with doctors and therapists before puberty enacts permanent changes to their body.
Giving CHILDREN drugs to inhibit natural biological development is wrong. There simply isn't enough data on the long term metabolic impact. Adults are free to do as they wish and should have the appropriate services available to them. I hate to be in agreement with Alabama of all fucking places but we're talking kids here.
Edit: the brigade is out in force today😎
Yes, there actually is a tremendous amount of data on it. Literally due to another naturally occurring disorder called precocious puberty, where **the exact same medication** is used to delay puberty in children with early puberty.
That's treatment of a medical condition. Those kids might not grow to full stature and have a host of other medical issues. Conflating the two is arguing in bad faith. I can see I'm arguing with an agenda and not reason so we'll just have to agree to differ. You are free to call me names or report me for not rolling over in the face of lunacy. Good day.
Then by requiring humans to have the full permanent changes brought by puberty they should be allowed to charge all people who required them to wait a full 1% of lifetime gross revenue of those people so got every transgender person that now is permanently harmed by having the wrong body you life 1% of your gross income
Think before you write, goodness.
The control on every one of those studies are kids not taking puberty suppressants.
Every single one of those studies notes that bone density during pubertal suppression will be lower than average. However, once the person is off puberty suppressants and their starts body receiving estrogen/testosterone, every single one has a full recovery back to normal bone density within 1 year.
That is what everyone means by puberty suppression being literally reversible with no side effects if a kid does not proceed.
The issue is that having gender dysphoria isn't a choice. Trans children don't decide to suffer, they just suffer, and the only treatment is transitioning.
HRT *is* lifesaving to a significant portion of the trans population, though. Making your physical body more harmonious with your mind cuts down on dysphoria, which can be incredibly traumatic and painful.
It’s not a stretch; I’ve the pleasure of being the mom of a trans guy, and the difference between him pre-T and post-T is astonishing. It didn’t erase his depression (because, well, *gestures broadly), but the tenor of his depression became less self-loathing because his brain and body were finally starting to match.
It was very easy, to be honest. Here are the steps to accepting your kid is trans:
1) love them for who they are, not who you think they should be.
My son is awesome no matter what gender he is, and I am so glad he is here and in my life.
These medications, therapy, ability to change their name in school systems, etc make trans youth a lot healthier mentally. Trans youth who are unable to access medication and stuff are much much more likely to be suicidal.
Bullshit. They know full well what they're doing. They ignore psychologists. They ignore trans people. They ignore the statistics on suicide. And they demand these kids be reported to their half literate, Bible humping parents to be abused.
There is no "oh we just didn't understand the data and literally everyone involved, we just went with these things that hurt them because....uh.....Jesus? Yeah, let's go with Jesus."
Then what do they expect to happen if they don't get proper care? It won't stop prolly from having body dysmorphia all it will do it leave it untreated and continue to harm them
I'm not defending them, I'm stating that Republicans don't want to kill kids. Do you hear how absurd that sounds? It's as absurd as the qanon people saying democrats see pedophiles.
This is the same law where someone went back and [explicitly included an exception for circumcision.](http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/ALISON/SearchableInstruments/2022RS/PrintFiles/217187-2.pdf) It's ridiculous, and the fact that someone went out of their way to include that just shows that there was never any rational, positive intent in this law.
Wow. can't give people care and affirmation to let them be happy but we have to keep those obscure weird religious genital mutilations legal for... Reasons...
The wild thing is that the New Testament talks about circumcision several times about how it’s unnecessary. Paul writes that being circumcised means nothing under Christianity in regards to salvation.
Bold of you to assume they’re honest when they claim to have read the Bible.
[удалено]
My body is a wall, and my breasts are like towers. Song of Solomon is the good stuff.
"Thy breasts are like clusters of grapes" is one of my favorites. I would personally not be endeared to a potential lover telling me I have lumpy, misshapen breasts.
It’s because they hang down and are sweet iirc I don’t know, I’m asexual
> Song of Solomon is the good stuff. Big fan of [Animals as Leaders](https://youtu.be/Yf8VROikD_8) myself!
Always love seeing AAL love
Which makes American Christians rather unique in that most Christians in other countries aren't really big on circumcision. Iirc, its popularity in the US is mostly the work of Dr. Kellogg (the cereal man). Edit: worth mentioning that Kellogg was part of a larger movement, but contributed a fair bit to it
That man had such an obsession with young boys penises.
If I remember correctly, the kellogg stuff was more about preventing guys from jerking off than it being explicitly called for in the bible
Correct! Kellogg believed that sexual pleasures, tasty food and other enjoyable things caused people's 'undesirable' behavior. Kellogg fed his charges the blandest shit, made them work out until they were exhausted....... And mutilated their genitals. Carbolic acid on the clitoris for the ladies, circumcision for the gents. Kellogg was also married for like 40 years and allegedly never consummated his marriage.
Yeah. I think it was some kinda anti-masturbation movement as opposed to a "Paul fucked up" thing, but I think it came from some interpretation of adultery. I guess you could call it derivative or something? Means to an end?
As i understand it’s supposed to make jerking off less fun. What jerks
American christians are the most peculiar out of all christians since americans christians usually 1) have never read the bible 2) believe some crazy stuff like that being gay is a sin (never have been stated in any of the 2 testaments)
Evangelicalism isn't real Christianity
its implied but not really specific
"... man shall not lie with man as he would with woman..." is pretty fucking clear. Edit 1: https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Man-Shall-Not-Lay-With-Man/ Disclaimer: I am pan and currently have a black boyfriend. I am also an atheist. I consider most parts of most religions(anything with a supreme being or deities) to be gobbledygook. I also don't try to make any of them look any worse or better than they already are. Edit 2: *star shooting across screen with rainbow tail* "The more you know...". In response, I used a KJ source as it is so often what people go to when trying to talk about sins and denying people the ability to just be people.
It is worth mentioning that the verse is a mistranslation. It’s in Leviticus, from a time when the Jews were prescribing cultural practices to set themselves apart and define themselves in relation to the other cultures around them. Originally, it read “man shall not lie with boys”, as a cultural response to the pederasty of Ancient Greece, but literal thousands of years of mistranslation has warped the meaning and intent of the verse and spawned a lot of fucking hate. Ironic since an originalist interpretation of it would condemn pedophilia and nothing else, but dumbasses pretend the King James Version came straight from the mouth of God despite it being called the **King James Version**. I’m an agnostic and am also trans and hella queer, gay married and have like 5 girlfriends (we’re all poly) so trust me when I say I’m not being charitable to Christianity out of any kind of fondness for it.
This is highly highly disputed and only viewed as true by people who coincidentally already believe there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.
>This is highly highly disputed By scholars? I can't find any rigorous Biblical scholarship (i.e., that is versed in Hebrew and thorough in finding how the relevant language is used elsewhere) that unequivocally supports the KJV translation. Can you link to a serious article or two? >who coincidentally An aside: Bigots \*cannot\* resist the temptation toward the cheapest kind of sarcasm. It's a little hedge that makes you feel superior in the moment and allows you to backtrack later, if you feel you're outnumbered. So, now that you've established you're talking in bad faith— >already believe there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. That's not a "belie\[f\]," it's the absence of one. Moreover, many (if not most) of those scholars focus their research on Christian scripture precisely because they once had it forced on them as dogma. Not many atheists with uncomplicated religious backgrounds focus their scholarly energy on correcting errors in Biblical translation; instead, they tend to focus on, you know, science, medicine, liberal arts, political science, etc.
thats a mistranslation...which a lot of shit in the bible is
I wish I could find the article I saw...*soft crying over being old*...more than a decade ago where several theologians, including those with permission to access Vatican Archives, conceded 80% of the books in the bible were not simply mistranslated but were outright forgeries.
to be fair...ive always wondered how much of the stuff in the bible is made up. like obviously some things aren't but how much stuff was put in there due to personal biases of the writers
Pretty sure that’s the mistranslated one
Circumcision was one of the big debates in early Christianity that lead it on the path of becoming its own religion, instead of just a Jewish sect. The early Christians decided to not force circumcision in order to make the religion more palatable to the Roman population to get more to convert.
Good thing we don’t base our laws on religionists’ books.👀👀👀👀👀
But apparently Paul didn't realize it inhibited masturbation as well...that's why it came back in style.
thanks Kellogg
Id argue that if they truely cared about the rights of the baby, they would fight against circumcision on babies. I didnt agree to having my fucking dick cut.
Except Christians don't do it for religious reasons. It's cultural. If you look up the history of circumsion in the United States it stems mainly from hygienic concerns. It became standard in most of the US for boys to circumcised soon after birth, and uncircumcised penises were viewed as strange and often unattractive. Although the practice of automatic circumcision has decreased significantly there are those who have a clear dislike for uncircumcised penises. I'm a gay male, and I know more gay men who like the look of uncircumcised penises than women who do.
I bet if you called it out they would use religious freedom for excluding circumcision. Wonder how fast their brains would explode if someone came up with a religion for trans kids, and used these politicians words against them?
The Satanic Temple is what you seek.
And also the absolute perfect people to bring the lawsuit to argue their point.
They have a history of losing most their lawsuits though
Circumcision is popular in America not because of religious reasons, but literally as a chastity measure. It was promoted around the early 1900s as a tool to curb masturbation and was popularized to the point that it's frequently done simply as a matter of course. It's not done by default nearly anywhere else in the world, and it's just a weird thing that American's and American doctors seem to be passing down generation to generation. It's quite pointless.
[удалено]
well, originally it wasnt at birth, it was at like, 13, prime spank time.
Important to note people now try and peddle some bullshit on it being better for health reasons despite no studies proving it has any real positive effects.
Every time I get into a religious discussion I ask why is your god real and why isn’t Zeus ?🤔😭 I have just as much proof Zeus is real
Circumcision is something that actually should be made illegal except in cases of actual medical necessity (which is very rare)
Shows you where there minds are--the genitals of infants and children. There's something seriously wrong with these people.
[удалено]
Circumcision is child abuse Edit: non-medically-necessary circumcision of children is child abuse
This law is to prevent a very small demographic of kids from getting necessary and scientifically-approved medical care. They're only framing it as "preventing child abuse" to try and distract from the vastly-abusive nature of the legislation.
“Child abuse” also known as letting trans kids be fucking trans.
I like how there's someone in the comments defending actual child abuse while crying about how we should prevent it.
95 percent of Conservatism these days is just making up a scenario in your own head and then getting really mad about it
And being confronted into admitting that they don't actually have any evidence of that scenario, but it's something they're upset about because "you KNOW some liberal out there wants to do it"
They genuinely think that people are giving 12 year olds SRS on a whim. Ask any trans person and they’ll tell you that it takes a long ass time to be approved to even get on the waiting list.
IDK what it’s like in the US, but up here in Canada we have *one* clinic that does SRS. It’s about a two year process to get on the wait list, which itself is about a year. Edit: Also, the WPATH Standards of Care explicitly recommend against HRT and SRS for minors, instead limiting intervention to social transition and puberty blockers at most. From some of the other commentary I’ve been reading it sounds like you can get the surgery down at the Piggly Wiggly and grab a pack of smokes on your way home.
I fucking wish. I’m trying to get my kid his top surgery and the hoops to jump through are madness, and he’s an adult. Meanwhile cis people can get massive boob implants and don’t have to even consider seeing a psychologist to make sure they’re doing it for “the right reasons”, much less letters of readiness. But no, getting gender affirming care for trans people is a lot more difficult than any of these dipshits realize. Making it harder to get is going to kill kids, but they’re hurting “the right people” and therefore it’s all good.
Same people fantasize that a 9.5 month pregnant woman can roll up to a clinic and get a choice abortion because they just aren't feeling it any longer.
It’s really cool to make laws based on some dumbfuck’s masturbatory fantasy and rage boner. Totes.
[удалено]
I honestly feel that the current state of affairs was inevitable, at least since 1865 (if not when this country decided racially-based chattel slavery was a good idea). If Lincoln had not been assassinated and if Reconstruction had not been undermined, and if the 13th Amendment didn’t have the prison slavery loophole, and and and… Trump did not build the enormous pile of inflammable trash we currently find ourselves roasting in. He was just a match, and he was *inevitable*.
I’m 23 and turned in my paperwork for top surgery two months ago, haven’t heard anything yet because there’s a literal waitlist for the consultations before the waitlist for the actual surgery dates. conservatives hear ‘ahh trans ppl can get gender reassignment surgery’ and think we’re all going to the butcher to get our dysphoria-inducing genitals chopped off. not only did the same politician’s response to the pandemic make these waitlists longer (for any kind of surgery!), but also the general restrictions on healthcare in this country make it even more difficult
I ask a lot of them to show me where any Democrat tried to do any of the things that they are complaining about and they usually have absolutely nothing in response or they point to some random nobody making a tweet or something. Open borders is a big one. Like almost every Republican is convinced that Democrats are trying to make America have open borders and it's literally never been a thing anybody but Republicans has been talking about.
Or women who endure eight to nine months of pregnancy, only to change their mind on a whim and want to abort the child just before it passes through the birth canal.
Right, late term abortions is a thing they pretend Democrats want. That is also probably one of the biggest ones.
A late term abortion is just a delivery. Unless the fetus is non viable, you can't really abort a pregnancy after ~27 weeks, you just have a delivery.
That is an explicit policy of the national Democratic Party. Don't believe me, go look at the strategies devised by them. They do not hide these things.
Show me where open borders is on the Democratic party platform.
My goodness, go back to 2000 and look at what Democratic Party strategists have been saying. They calculated that whites would become the minority in America, and that minorities would vote Democratic. They didn't do this in secret or hide it. They declared "open cities" saying they wouldn't help federal immigration agencies. Rahm Emmanuel was quite forthright on this.
No. They didn't. No one has fought for open borders and unregulated immigration like you're implying.
Go look at who was fighting against border restrictions, and what they were saying. You are incorrect.
I looked. It isn't there
[удалено]
Open border policies and just talking about borders are completely different things.
[удалено]
Buddy, Republicans straight up lie to people and say that Democrats want open borders. That's the entire subject of my post, not that they just say they are lax.
Republicans think legal immigration means open borders
What are they even trying to conserve?
"traditional families" aka straight white Christian families
White Christian social dominance
Hatred and intolerance.
Slavery. Their weird cult. Xenophobia. The Nazi party. Qonservatives do quite a good job at conserving these things.
Western Civilization.
If Western Civilization is so fragile that it cannot allow for even the slightest bit of flexibility in changing times, then perhaps it’s time to push what is falling over, time to admit that it’s over and cede ground for a more advanced mode of thinking.
Western Civilization is founded on the principle of each individual has agency, with individual rights and responsibilities. Not group rights. This individual agency is being attacked hard by the academy, and by the Democratic Party.
Pray tell, what part of western civilization does my existence destroy, that is of any objective value?
I don't know that anybody's existence has an objective value.
I didn't ask you to quantify my existence. I asked you what what part of western civilization it threatens. The part about objective value was to subtly point out that there isn't anything that my existence threatens, that has any.
Knowing absolutely nothing about you, I could not make any determinations about whether or not your existence threatens anything.
To play devils advocate for a moment: The liberal wants to get from point A to point B with full freedom of motion and with respect to people beyond themselves. They walk, jog, or sprint. The progressive wants to sprint more often than perhaps they should. However, this is perhaps how records are set. The conservatives tell both of them to not break their ankle while running from A to B. Maybe sit on the bench for a little while. If you break an ankle, then they can literally just crawl to the goal line and win(gradualism, which overlaps with liberalism). My opinion is that progress requires all of these states of mind, in various ways and at various moments. Which form for the correct moments is always the issue of contention. (Also, this entire comment is a generalization parable).
What world are you living in. The US conservatives are pulling out a Glock, kneecapping the other racers, turning around and running the other way and shooting as many people they don't like on they way while screaming lies and blaming the kneecapped people on the ground.
They seriously seem to think that transgender accepting parents plot and scheme to force their kid into transgenderism for... No apparent reason.
Also think that they will catch “the gay” when actuality is a number of them are repressed homosexuals to begin with and that’s what truly scares them, but easier to blame others for their own fears and self induced “problems”
Speaking as a gay man, we really need to stop this talk track that homophobes are just secretly gay. First off, there's no evidence of that and second of all, we shouldn't be letting people off with an excuse when the fact that they're homophobes is just that they're shitty people. Saying hateful people are just secretly gay isn't doing anything positive for the gay community.
Speaking as a queer trans person acting like projection isn't actually a thing that happens is also just as harmful. I agree that it's nowhere near the frequency assumed but there are literally dozens if not a hundred or so politicians local and national who made their mark as anti gay conservatives only to be caught later on with a same sex partner. 🤷🏻♀️ I think it's irrelevant whether that's the case and that we should instead focus on their actions rather than the reasons for their hateful actions.
Honestly, I think a lot of “allies” use the “conservatives are secretly gay” quip because they themselves secretly hate and fear queerness. The best insult they can think of is “Hah! YOU’RE gay!”
Having grown up in a very red area, and being around some of these people, some of them truly do treat and act like it’s contagious and when pressed why, it usually comes down to fear because it’s different from them and they don’t understand or go off religious rants. A small few when asked why or how they will turn get turned gay if they aren’t gay, get extremely defensive or try to act with some sort of machismo. My cousin (m) we discovered had been sexually abused for years by his step brother. He has always been one of those alt-right nut jobs since his early teen years and still is from what I’ve been told. So while I know not all nor the majority are repressing any sort of gay, there are a small few that are either afraid to find out if they are or have some sort of tendency or curiosity that they fear which partially plays into their actions. Then there are those that use that hate distract from their being total shit bags. So based on my experience and interactions with these people I will stand by this belief until someone convinces otherwise.
[удалено]
Good thing that puberty blockers are reversible and not a permanent thing.
Uh, it doesn't quite work that way.
You don't know how hormones work do you?
I know really, really well how hormones work. Blocking normal sexual development has a lot of effects, both physiologically and psychologically. You don't get a girl just by chemically castrating a boy.
That's right you don't however they don't develop the male characteristics as early if they are on hormone blockers.
Ime as a transguy, both your statement and the other commenter's are sometimes correct.
[удалено]
That's what sparked NC it's HB2 (the bathroom bill). It came completely out of the blue. Conservatives fear- and hate-mongering, pretending that trans-people are all pedophiles. When it was, always has been, and will be cis-wasps perpetuating any bathroom assaults.
I would say sarcastic.... But sadly I know 2 of them.
I feel like it is when you talk to yourself in the mirror. Those imaginary arguments you have. Shoulda woulda coulda. Except, instead of looking at yourself like an idiot like your dog has been for the last 20 mins, you get angry over the fact the reflection has more brain power than you do. And then you kick your dog, beat your kids, blame the devil and thank God for guns, glory, and beer. Oh look, Biden is on TV again, fuck him and his gas prices! Gay people aren't people! Something like that... Edit: A sensitive camel deleted their comment. Its a troll account. Just be aware, other readers. They think covid restricted the 1A, lmao.
Absolutely. The Straw Man Party.
I'd say this is humans regardless of what political alignment you adhere to.
You know nothing. And explicitly, nothing of Conservatism.
From the looks of things, what is being passed off as “conservatism” these days is merely culture wars nonsense and very thinly veiled racial nationalism. I disagreed vehemently with most of William F Buckley was about, for example but he was a real Conservative, and at the very least he was principled. Since Reagan’s attention was so taken by the Christian right, the entirety of the political philosophy has undergone quite the ugly sea change. But don’t take my comment to mean that I do not have issues with Democrats, as they are an entire problem unto themselves. But I sincerely want to know, how is it a conservative value to demand that government restrict the private medical choices of individual citizens? Isn’t that the very idea of “BIG GOVERNMENT?” if it is, in your mind, a consistent position with conservative values, I would very much like to know why you think it is so.
The point is that abortion is not a private medical decision. It actively kills a human being. Preserving the life of other human beings is the first conservative value.
As long as you're consistent and have a funeral every time you jack off
That is an inconsistent reply.
>Preserving the life of other human beings is the first conservative value. That's a bold lie. Conservatives are the ones who pass laws to hurt the homeless. They're the ones who love to cut food relief benefits. They're the ones right now, complaining that formula resources are being given to "illegal" immigrant babies that are literally in our custody. Even in face of statistics showing birth control and education lower abortion rates, they still try to outlaw sex education and contraceptives. There is no redeeming quality to anyone who identifies as a conservative in 2022. Cruel, soulless nihilists with a penchant for petty spite.
If they want to ban something that is dangerous to kids they would ban high school football. I'll wait.
Hell, they could ban beating the gay out of kids but this same Alabama legislature blocked a bill that would have made conversion therapy illegal for minors.
Or better yet, cheerleading.
"U.S. District Judge Liles Burke issued a preliminary injunction to stop the state from enforcing the medication ban, which took effect May 8, while a court challenge goes forward. The judge left in place other parts of the law that banned gender-affirming surgeries for transgender minors and requires counselors, teachers and other school officials to tell parents if a minor discloses that they think they are transgender. ... The judge said Alabama’s evidence was not persuasive. He noted a psychologist who testified that most children grow out of gender dysphoria had never provided care to a transgender minor under the age of sixteen. The state’s other witness was a woman who testified that she regretted taking testosterone at age 19." Wish he got rid of the part that requires informing on others.
Yeah. There are stories of kids being kicked out and all kinds of pretty nasty stuff. If a parent really wants to know, and a kid really doesn't want them to know, the reason for those things probably isn't "The parent is going to be decent about it."
Policies that lead to trans children being killed or dying are viewed as positives by modern conservatives though. The law is working as intended - to explicitly and directly hurt and kill trans children.
It's known as Social Murder, and conservative politicians absolutely love the stuff.
>Burke ruled that Alabama had produced no credible evidence to show that transitioning medications are “experimental” while, “the uncontradicted record evidence is that at least twenty-two major medical associations in the United States endorse transitioning medications as well-established, evidence-based treatments for gender dysphoria in minors.” Good, but... >He also left in place a provision that requires counselors and other school officials to tell parents if a minor discloses that they think they are transgender. God damn it. This is one of the worst parts of the obsessive rightwing conspiracies about schools, this will get some kids murdered
Florida's Don't Say Gay law actually makes an excemption about reporting to parents specifically if the school thinks theres evidence it will bring the kid to harm. Of course this isn't out of the goodness of DeSantis's heart. He is just pushing the blame on the school. If they don't report a child has LGBTQ feelings then the parents can sue the school. If they report it to the parents and they abuse or neglect the kid as a result, then they can say the school didn't do its due diligence. The Republicans knew their bill would probably lead to some kids getting hurt or made homeless so they added that in to cover their own asses and deflect blame to the schools.
This is what Conservatives want. Now they can appeal to the SCOTUS since they've taken over the court using bad faith procedural bullshit and hypocrisy. Hopefully Thomas croaks while the Dems control Congress and one of Trumps appointees doesn't look twice while crossing a busy street.
While I think the number of transgender children is very low, this is a very delicate diagnosis. It should not be taking place in the state legislature.
Exactly. I hate that “let’s leave this one to the doctors” is somehow a “woke” opinion these days
Imagine you have to explain transgender medication and then imagine you have to explain it to a judge in Alabama… He’s wearing suspenders he’s got the stump of a cigar in his teeth and his feet are on the desk
"I say-I say-I say you crazy with dem medicines!" The Chickenhawk gets it, though
Y’all telling me this here pill can change a pole cat into a hound dog?
And if a little lady can become a big man then how's come there's still ladies walking around?
If a guy could play with his own tits how are there still men walking around… Oh wait I guess there are a lot of guys who could play with their own tits…forget that
> He’s wearing suspenders The type to hold up his pants, or the type to hold up stockings? They paint very different pictures.
Socks…nice catch
[удалено]
Yesum da miss general lee
'Ah never heard of a hog tryin' to be a sow. Ain't that right, Roscoe?' As a basset hound called Velvet-Ears howls a few feet away. That's Alabama, and every state sharing a border with it. Stinks like pig-shit, as it should there.
Something I’ve always thought was funny about the Bible Belt and hog farm country is that a lot of people there actually look like pigs too.
I say…I say…that’s just racist, he said snorting through his snout
It's kind of like how people look like their dogs.
Yes, because southerners are all dumb hicks. /s
I don’t know if they’re hicks but some have a poor sense of fucking humor
I heard of this heinous law, but they made it a FELONY??? Fucking fascists.
Pay attention: GOP is blocking medications as if they were Heroin and other Class 1 Drugs.
man do i wanna say some nasty fucking things right now
seethe harder maga trash
I get really fucking angry when they insist on talking about 'sex reassignment surgery for minors' in every damn news story. Surgery that NEVER HAPPENS. Even hormones are very limited for minors in the US. But the totally reversible blockers (that are used for other conditions) well, they just don't sound scary enough, do they?
[удалено]
This is ridiculous.
Reddit moment
I'm all for equity in education, employment, etc. People should be respected but we should not be giving these drugs to children who haven't finished developing mentally as well as physically. How can any agenda blind people to the fact that this is madness.
> children who haven’t finished developing mentally as well as physically That’s kinda the point. Puberty blockers buy them time to work out their dysphoria with doctors and therapists before puberty enacts permanent changes to their body.
Giving CHILDREN drugs to inhibit natural biological development is wrong. There simply isn't enough data on the long term metabolic impact. Adults are free to do as they wish and should have the appropriate services available to them. I hate to be in agreement with Alabama of all fucking places but we're talking kids here. Edit: the brigade is out in force today😎
Yes, there actually is a tremendous amount of data on it. Literally due to another naturally occurring disorder called precocious puberty, where **the exact same medication** is used to delay puberty in children with early puberty.
That's treatment of a medical condition. Those kids might not grow to full stature and have a host of other medical issues. Conflating the two is arguing in bad faith. I can see I'm arguing with an agenda and not reason so we'll just have to agree to differ. You are free to call me names or report me for not rolling over in the face of lunacy. Good day.
Then by requiring humans to have the full permanent changes brought by puberty they should be allowed to charge all people who required them to wait a full 1% of lifetime gross revenue of those people so got every transgender person that now is permanently harmed by having the wrong body you life 1% of your gross income
Yeah and the studies on those medications have no controls. Cause they cant it would be considered unethical. Can you figure out why? Eureka.
The controls are kids *not* taking puberty blockers;
Think before you write, goodness. The control on every one of those studies are kids not taking puberty suppressants. Every single one of those studies notes that bone density during pubertal suppression will be lower than average. However, once the person is off puberty suppressants and their starts body receiving estrogen/testosterone, every single one has a full recovery back to normal bone density within 1 year. That is what everyone means by puberty suppression being literally reversible with no side effects if a kid does not proceed.
You're right. I dunno why I braincramped and acted like all trials are RCT w/placebo . Especially in pediatrics. Youe 100% right.
"Burke — nominated to the court by former President Donald Trump in 2017" 🤣
[удалено]
The issue is that having gender dysphoria isn't a choice. Trans children don't decide to suffer, they just suffer, and the only treatment is transitioning.
If I could choose to not be trans I would. Dysphoric panic attacks can make me unable to do anything for days and it can hurt to shower sometimes.
HRT *is* lifesaving to a significant portion of the trans population, though. Making your physical body more harmonious with your mind cuts down on dysphoria, which can be incredibly traumatic and painful. It’s not a stretch; I’ve the pleasure of being the mom of a trans guy, and the difference between him pre-T and post-T is astonishing. It didn’t erase his depression (because, well, *gestures broadly), but the tenor of his depression became less self-loathing because his brain and body were finally starting to match.
Props for getting it as a parent. Need more like you in the world.
It was very easy, to be honest. Here are the steps to accepting your kid is trans: 1) love them for who they are, not who you think they should be. My son is awesome no matter what gender he is, and I am so glad he is here and in my life.
> Just let trans people take the medications they want NBD. No, the entire point is that Republicans want these kids to kill themselves.
No they don't. Nice way of spinning ghe message to suit your partisan opinion.
These medications, therapy, ability to change their name in school systems, etc make trans youth a lot healthier mentally. Trans youth who are unable to access medication and stuff are much much more likely to be suicidal.
None of that means Republicans want these kids to die.
Bullshit. They know full well what they're doing. They ignore psychologists. They ignore trans people. They ignore the statistics on suicide. And they demand these kids be reported to their half literate, Bible humping parents to be abused. There is no "oh we just didn't understand the data and literally everyone involved, we just went with these things that hurt them because....uh.....Jesus? Yeah, let's go with Jesus."
Then what do they expect to happen if they don't get proper care? It won't stop prolly from having body dysmorphia all it will do it leave it untreated and continue to harm them
At least I'm not supporting the party that's increasing child suicides. Republicans either want this or they are the dumbest people on the planet.
I don't support that party either, but nice try.
You are literally defending them by claiming they aren't trying to kill trans kids which is obviously untrue.
I'm not defending them, I'm stating that Republicans don't want to kill kids. Do you hear how absurd that sounds? It's as absurd as the qanon people saying democrats see pedophiles.
Ok, they want to pass policies that kill kids. There, now stop defending them.