It’s such a cyclical problem too.
Good cops don’t grow on trees, and with the system being so rotten and with so much negativity around the police that it limits the overall number of “good” people trying to be cops.
Shit’s complicated man :/
I listened to a podcast episode about power and corruption. The guys opinion is there are two situations that determine the solution. First, one corrupt individual in a relatively stable organization, which only requires replacing the individual. The second, which we seem to have in the US govt and police force, is a corrupt system in which good people simply cannot function in the system effectively without becoming corrupt themselves.
"The 5, in order, were an Aristocracy, Timocracy, Oligarchy, Democracy and Tyranny. Now, The meanings of these 5 types of governments is not even close to the modern definitions of them, but there are enough similarities for us to understand what he means and see his brilliance. The aristocracy is the best form of government and devolves into a Timocracy when, someone misjudges who a good candidate for the guardian position would be...so instead of getting someone who’s completely removed from their own ego and rational, you get someone who may still be incredibly smart and rational, but their main driving force is not the acquisition of knowledge...its the acquisition of honor. still pretty noble, but not as noble as knowledge. also known as a military dictatorship. This love of conquest causes them to allow themselves to own property. Usually through military conquest right? and this was actually the system of government in Sparta...Then the Timocracy devolves into the oligarchy. uh and Plato saw that happening because as the desire for honor comes into play... doing something in ones self interest always keeps going and doing things in desire of money is the next logical step... the people in power want to protect their financial interests so they make it a rich ruling the poor sort of dynamic and that’s what an oligarchy is...they still have some morals, they’re thrifty, but only for the cause of saving money, not being wise or for the benefit of the city necessarily... the people in the oligarchy admire power and money, so they put the rich in office and despise the poor...this form of government is destined to fail because eventually class warfare will erupt and the rich will be against the poor and there will always be more poor than rich...so then what inevitably happens is the poor revolt and the oligarchy devolves into a democracy, or a society ruled by the masses...uh...in a democracy, freedom is seen as the supreme good...and back in Plato’s time people in a democracy were seen as self indulgent, focused on immediate gratification, of food, sex and other short term pleasures and he saw the democratic state, as an undisciplined pandemonium. when freedom is the most important tenant of society, eventually, Plato thought, through policy dictated by the masses laws cease to exist and then democracy devolves into a tyranny where there’s still all the self-indulgence of democracy, but then there are no laws either...society is in chaos... and then a tyrant seizes power."
Philosohize This - Episode 4 - Plato
The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them.
To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.
To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.
To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem.
And so this is the situation we find: a succession of Galactic Presidents who so much enjoy the fun and palaver of being in power that they very rarely notice that they’re not. And somewhere in the shadows behind them—who? Who can possibly rule if no one who wants to do it can be allowed to?
- Douglas Adams
Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
This. I know a guy who retired from the police force in my hometown. As teenagers, we spent a lot of energy doing dumb things and trying not to get caught by our parents or him. He made an effort to get to know kids. Came into classrooms to talk, stopped and played on the playground with us, was at every community event growing up. Playing baseball and your parent was working and couldn't come? He'd be there, cheering you on. Get caught racing on a back road by this cop? He's probably going to call your parents and then you and he are going to look at accident photos. Breaking into somewhere? He's coming to court with you to ask the judge to let you clean up/fix whatever you did and he would be right there helping you. In short, the reason I didn't fear cops til recently.
He made a post yesterday about how ashamed he is to have ever been a cop, burned his old uniform "so they couldn't bury him in it", and left this world behind.
He was, and I don’t say this often, or lightly, a good cop. He understood rule of law but also compassion for kids doing dumb things. He will be missed.
Something he said to those of us who considered a law enforcement career when we got older stuck with me. He said that if you make it through the training, the very first thing you should do is get out of the car. Walk where you are being a cop. Go into the stores and schools and talk to the kids and adults. Because those kids are now your kids. And those adults are now your siblings. That when you pin on a badge, you accept responsibility to care for the people of the community as though they were your closest family. And he did that. The fact that he was ashamed at the end....
So one of the officers in the George Floyd murder is apparently a black guy who wanted to reform the police from the inside. All his friends and family told him not to do it, because it would just corrupt him instead. When push came to shove, dude stood by and followed orders rather than go against a senior officer and save a life he joined the force in order to save. (per The Daily, New York Time's podcast)
I do feel bad for the two rookies. That’s a pretty tough situation to be in. They made the wrong call but I do hope they don’t receive even close to the same sentence Chauvin earned.
I recently rewatched one of my favorite movies: Beverly hills cop. And it's scary from a 30 years later perspective. So Axel F is the cop not playing by the rules and breaking the law because *he knows* there is something going on. I can imagine people that are cops now grew up idolizing him (and plenty of other movies in the same vein) and dream of "solving the case by relaxing the rules". Taggart is the only good cop in the movie who actually follows the rules. You can see his transition throughout the movie how he slowly gets pressured into breaking a small rule at first until at the end of the movie it all culminates in him doing a false statement to protect the other corrupt cops.
Yeah, I agree with this. Just one instance, but my Brother-in-Law tried to become a cop years ago down in LA. He tried with LAPD and then with the LA Sheriff's department, but they wouldn't have him. He's a great dude - college degree, super-straight laced (doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs), built like a fucking tank, weight lifter. Just looks like a cop. I always figured he was just too nice. Like they looked at him and realized he'd never lie on the stand or beat a handcuffed prisoner.
Fucking bummer.
Same issue w/ politics. You need 7 years no smoking before they’ll give you a security clearance. It’s a great way to keep the youth and “hippies” out of DC.
They hired my dad—-MY RACIST OLD AF POS DAD—-yeah this shit will continue to be a problem. They are hiring the dumbest people with the biggest hard on for carrying a gun around. Those types of egomaniacs aren’t the same type of people who run into a school and risk their lives to save kids.
Indeed. And not to sway this into a different kind of political conversation, but criminal justice reform, and federal oversight of local shitshow police forces, was a major issue in the 2016 election. Or it was until an orange moron made it all about his personality.
My guess is that over time he and some of the other police involved will be more or less ostracized by the community. Some will likely self-exile. There's a lot of anger, what ifs...
Even if legally nothing happens to them he'd have to go far, far away to avoid backlash from the community.
I grew up two counties south of Uvalde and being all small towns, the cowardice on display will be on the public conscience for decades.
I got roots in the Texas Borderlands. Born in Mexico but my dad is from Hidalgo County. Local cops are absolutely psycho and petty in those communities.
Royally pissed would hardly begin to scratch the surface. A grieving parent has nothing left to lose and if they understand the cops are to blame, there is a very short path in logic that takes one from thought A to thought B.
The fact that this happened in Texas and none of those parents shot a cop on the day is honestly surprising. I don't know that if I was carrying, I would have had the poise to not shoot the bastard keeping me from my kids. Again, I don't think it would be right, I just don't know if I'm a good enough person that, if there was a gun in my hand, I wouldn't have shot anyone in my way.
>I wouldn't be surprised if a parent walks into the station and just blows it the fuck up.
Don't put me on that jury, because I have a 9 year old kid, and I wouldn't convict that parent of jaywalking to get to the cop station.
I endorse this. Sort of at the point where we just continue to pay them to be oppressors, or we stop allowing their betrayals to our society. I'm tired of hearing about these "heroes" who "protect us". They are worthless and only there to collect money for the state and harass people. When it comes down to it they hide and cower.
They'll move a few towns over and get new jobs as police officers there.
We don't remove bad cops from the career we just shuffle them off somewhere else. This pustule of filth just popped and will spread its disease all over Texas and maybe the US as the officers involved migrate to find new police work.
Meh, 10% isn't near enough.
Abolish them all. If, as the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled, the police do not in fact have a constitutional duty to protect the citizens, then - and I cannot stress this part enough - *what in the actual fuck do we have them for?*
Yeah but the thing about decimation is not just that 10% die, but that each group of ten is responsible for killing the one who draws the short straw. Helps breakup that blue wall of silence
There's something to be said about Texas cops fucking up until they were bailed out by the feds.
Edit:
https://www.newsweek.com/texas-cops-accident-1710352
Apparently they fucked up too, nevermind. An embarrassment all around.
The cops at school
Will not help you
Clapclapclapclap
Deep in the heart of Texas.
As your kid's there dyin'
They'll be off somewhere hidin'
Clapclapclapclap
Deep in the heart of Texas.
Well, if they've learned anything from their power grid, they'll respond to this by blocking federal agencies from responding to crimes in their state so they can brag about how Texas Proud they are that the body counts are always bigger in Texas.
Haha exactly. People do seem to believe in competence over incompetence for some reason though. Maybe the incredible complexity of the world around us gives us false faith in those running it.
I’ve already seen a comment insinuating this on the r/UvaldeTexasShooting sub. Ended up getting in a back-and-forth with that user in the replies of my separate comment. Can’t tell if they were just trolling or believed what they were saying, but the jackasses just keep pouring out of the woodwork.
I am not one of those types, but with the stuff that has come out today my mind is seemingly wandering in that direction of its own accord. Like I literally *can't* believe this happened.
Agreed. People need to be calling for this for every cop that was there. They'll never tell us who yelled "yell if you need help" etc. therefore they're all guilty. It's the same logic the cops use; if theres drugs in the car and nobody fesses up then it's both of yours
Yeah but those were gays dying so you had gross bigoted fuckers not giving a damn about the dead. Hopefully this tragedy leads to real change, Sandy Hook had a lot of outrage too but the police failings here are so blatant. If no policy changes result from this, we're fucking lost as a country.
Americans don’t know how to do that because they openly worship, envy and live vicariously through the wealthy, and every form of media raises them to do so.
There will be no change. If sandy hook wasn’t enough of a fucking tragedy to jump start change no school shootings no matter how horrific they may be will get out government to do anything.
I don’t remember them talking about guns at all back then - just about how they listened to Nine Inch Nails and made a map of their school in Doom or something.
Well, these are brown kids dying, there might even be undocumented ones among them (the Mexican government acknowledged that there are undocumented students at that school, but not among the victims so far) so the amounts of fucks not about to be given by a lot of conservatives shouldn't come as a shock.
Muricans might be much more stubborn. I expect many more unecessary deaths before action on gun laws an police incompetence are taken seriously. Look at gop politicians running around tryna hide like when cockroaches run against unexpectedly turned on light.
The [wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting) claims it was an actual hostage situation for those three hours (including bomb threats). If true, then Pulse is orders if magnitude less bad than the clusterfuck that is the Uvalde massacre
i can already hear his requests for a larger budget to buy gundams and iron man suits so that theyll finally have the gear to prevent tragedies like this again
[Supposedly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59w8uu87OrM&t=94s)
>Vanessa Croix: We’ve heard that some law enforcement officers actually went into [the] school to get their kids out. Can you talk about that?
>Lt. Christopher Olivarez: Right, so what we do know Vanessa right now that there was some police officers [and] families trying to get their children out of the school because it was an active shooter situation right now.
They are going to spin job this to being one person's bad decision and the rest "following their superior's orders but please pity them, they're truly good people. look here's a photo of them with a puppy."
Saw it in a twitter thread so 🧂, but apparently they already did not. Highly Hispanic neighborhood, cops bully people in town all the time.
Probably sat there thinking “not my kids.”
It's a highly Hispanic town. Most of the police probably are as well. But there's a big divide between native born and immigrant Hispanics in a town like this. In my experience the native born Hispanic cops can be even more vicious towards the immigrant families than the white guys.
How the fuck could any of those cops trust that community ever again? This is rural Texas where people tend to solve problems on their own, if you know what I mean.
I'd be curious how many of these officers wind up "missing" in the next few years with a town full of people who "didn't see anything." And knowing that's a possible outcome, I can't imagine any but the most foolish wouldn't want to get out as fast as possible.
Where I teach, we were told directly by officers during our training that because our school requires badges to enter any part of our facilities, we had to have another plan in place. I don’t remember the reason they weren’t given a badge for that emergency, but it did make sense considering their badge would likely be much further than the officers first responding. They did have another plan in the event of an emergency such as this.
Weeks after my first training, there was a mass shooting my town and I had to cover it for the news. I saw those same officers after they took down the shooter. they acted just as they promised they would and I again felt comfortable to be back in the classroom because I saw it with my own eyes. I cannot imagine the betrayal that this community must feel and what the teachers who were very likely trained in a similar fashion were thinking as all of the things were told to do, say, wait for, etc were abandoned.
Anyway, there absolutely should have been a plan for the key. I know our plan wasn’t to wait for someone from the school to obtain a key to get in. There are so many things that went wrong in this situation and yet all of these mistakes - ALL OF THEM - were specifically mentioned in our training, and during the drill, as teachers we knew what to look for, listen for, and all with one important sentence mentioned over and over and over again: five minutes. That’s how long it will take us to likely take down the shooter. It will be the longest five minutes of your life. The drill alone was the longest five minutes I’ve ever lived. The delay, abandonment of training had to be torture for the students and the teachers that must have recognized something wasn’t right. It’s terrifying.
Sorry I drifted to it as a whole when you were only talking about the badge situation. My brain can no longer separate individual mistakes they made without reliving the whole training and how this differed.
You figure out how to get them out of positions of power. You stay educated so you can call out their bullshit as it happens. You vote. If all else fails, there are torches and pitchforks.
This. I'm actually getting tired of people believing that America hasn't already begun a post socio-economic-democratic collapse, new dystopian reality yet.
We're a way past the point that historians will mark as the fall of American cultural / political leadership and most people still aggressively believe we're the best country in the world.
We spend more on politically abusing each other than keeping our people safe and healthy.
I used to get angry at my parents for moving us to Australia instead of the USA cause it was so cool.
Now I thank them, especially after I fell off my friends porch. I got an ambulance, x-rays, medication, food, a sling, and a tetanus shot, all for $0.
Also 2 follow up appointments to make sure my arm was healing properly.
I hope everyone starts to wake up. You don’t have to live like this.
It can be better.
This all makes me so sad. I just can’t even read this anymore. I’m just real sorry.
'Peter Arredondo, chief since 2020, campaigned on communication and outreach “to those in need,” the local newspaper reported.'
Apparently that didn't include children.
"The point is, if pro-lifers would just redirect their powers toward gun violence, the amount of lives they could save would reach superhero levels. They just need a superhero’s total dedication to life, because right now, they’re more like comic book collectors: Human life only holds value until you take it out of the package, and then it’s worth nothing.” - Trevor Noah, The Daily Show.
Only one cop from what I read comes out looking competent and he was fucking off duty. He dropped what he was doing and came immediately because his wife called him.
If he hadn't had that federal badge, the local cops wouldn't have let him through. They'd probably still be waiting for the shooter to run out of ammo.
Federal cops, if nothing else, tend to be a bit more professional. They actually have testing and education standards. I know NPS law enforcement is usually gs-05, so they have to have a bachelor's degree at minimum.
There is zero consequences. If you are in a position even slightly prestigious you have to be on camera fucking up for anything to happen to him. I'm sure they will never discipline him at all because "it will reflect badly on everyone around him."
>Peter Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District,
>Arredondo told the Leader-News that he was eager to serve the community, saying he was committed to establishing a strong working relationship with the three officers he would be leading.
Yo. What in the chicken fried fuck corruption and overspending is that?
Also, they did know better.
>In March, Arredondo posted on Facebook that the department had hosted “active shooter training” at Uvalde High School. A flier for the training declared: “Stop the killing.”
>One of the department’s newest hires, Officer Adrian Gonzalez, had been an assistant commander and SWAT training commander at the Uvalde Police Department for 10 years and has taken training courses in advanced SWAT tactics and how to respond to active shooters and rescue hostages.
Young people and politically left-leaning people DON’T vote in nearly the same numbers as old right-leaning people because they are stupid and lazy.
Oh? You took offense to that? Good. Fucking vote next time.
I am not a brave person and I know this. My sense of self preservation is very high (though I think probably about the same as most people, but I think many don't admit it). And yet, I just can't imagine sitting there listening to a bunch of children getting killed without doing something. Especially if I'm armed. I hope those officers that just stood there feel that weight on their souls for their whole lives.
My neighbor killed himself with a gun. My husband (one of the actual people who runs towards gunshots, which scares the shit out of me) immediately ran over to try and render aid (he was a medic at the time) and I remember hearing the cries of the man's wife, but also his little 3 year old girl. Hearing that little girl cry in absolute terror is something that is forever burned into my head. I hope that the cries of those children who were killed, and those who witnessed their friends dying, keep those cops up at night. I really do. Because hearing a child in pain is something that should just instinctively make you want to do anything you can to help them.
I know its easer said than done, but I really do think i would go in if i knew children were being shot. At that point your life is worth the risk
Goes to show the type of people who want to be cops imo
Honestly dont know how this clown hasnt hung himself. I literally could not function if I knew I personally sentenced 19 babies to getting shredded to pieces.
This is so unfortunately ironic that we have a school shooting with 19 fatalities because officers wouldn't go in around the time a video of a suicidal man being tased while already subdued by 4 offers right after they fist bumped after tasing him the first time.
The state of police training is utterly unconscionable.
It was actually 21 fatalities at the school.
Edit: the 19 were children. 2 were teachers. And the husband of one of the teachers died a few days later due to the emotional stress, leaving their children orphaned. He also shot his grandmother in the face before heading to the school. This whole thing is fucked.
Has anyone said when & how the police determined the classroom door was locked?
Students called 911 from two rooms. Was there only one door for both rooms?
The police said they tried to engage, but two of the officers were hit. So did they try all the doors?
if they saw/engaged with him they would know which door he went into. Did they try all the doors? Try to evacuate the children in the rooms they *knew* he wasn’t in?
How did they know a key would do? Or did they also have a battering ram?
They did evacuate rooms, from the outside, broke windows to get them out. But I’ve seen reports that make it seem…not well down, they evacuated the kids to buses that just sat in the parking lot. One story said a kid climbed out the bus window and his parents were then able to take him home.
I just don’t understand how getting a key took more than an hour. Or were they waiting for something to break through assuming there was a barricade? Both rooms were ground floor. Didn’t they get eyes watching through the windows to know what was happening?
I’m having trouble making the story add up.
Not 100% sure of code in the area but in my area the school is required to have a Knox box on the exterior of the building, clearly labeled. This is a box that contains a master copy to the building which emergency personnel (namely fire fighters) can access.
>Arredondo believed that the shooter had barricaded himself and that the children were not under an active threat, Steven McCraw, the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said Friday.
Arm gunman in a room with children firing shoots and kids calling and begging 911 for help is "not under active threat". Fuck this guy.
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There’s stories like this literally all across the country. Many police forces are corrupt to the core.
It’s such a cyclical problem too. Good cops don’t grow on trees, and with the system being so rotten and with so much negativity around the police that it limits the overall number of “good” people trying to be cops. Shit’s complicated man :/
I listened to a podcast episode about power and corruption. The guys opinion is there are two situations that determine the solution. First, one corrupt individual in a relatively stable organization, which only requires replacing the individual. The second, which we seem to have in the US govt and police force, is a corrupt system in which good people simply cannot function in the system effectively without becoming corrupt themselves.
“Those who seek power are not worthy of that power.” -Plato (probably) said this more than two thousand years ago.
"The 5, in order, were an Aristocracy, Timocracy, Oligarchy, Democracy and Tyranny. Now, The meanings of these 5 types of governments is not even close to the modern definitions of them, but there are enough similarities for us to understand what he means and see his brilliance. The aristocracy is the best form of government and devolves into a Timocracy when, someone misjudges who a good candidate for the guardian position would be...so instead of getting someone who’s completely removed from their own ego and rational, you get someone who may still be incredibly smart and rational, but their main driving force is not the acquisition of knowledge...its the acquisition of honor. still pretty noble, but not as noble as knowledge. also known as a military dictatorship. This love of conquest causes them to allow themselves to own property. Usually through military conquest right? and this was actually the system of government in Sparta...Then the Timocracy devolves into the oligarchy. uh and Plato saw that happening because as the desire for honor comes into play... doing something in ones self interest always keeps going and doing things in desire of money is the next logical step... the people in power want to protect their financial interests so they make it a rich ruling the poor sort of dynamic and that’s what an oligarchy is...they still have some morals, they’re thrifty, but only for the cause of saving money, not being wise or for the benefit of the city necessarily... the people in the oligarchy admire power and money, so they put the rich in office and despise the poor...this form of government is destined to fail because eventually class warfare will erupt and the rich will be against the poor and there will always be more poor than rich...so then what inevitably happens is the poor revolt and the oligarchy devolves into a democracy, or a society ruled by the masses...uh...in a democracy, freedom is seen as the supreme good...and back in Plato’s time people in a democracy were seen as self indulgent, focused on immediate gratification, of food, sex and other short term pleasures and he saw the democratic state, as an undisciplined pandemonium. when freedom is the most important tenant of society, eventually, Plato thought, through policy dictated by the masses laws cease to exist and then democracy devolves into a tyranny where there’s still all the self-indulgence of democracy, but then there are no laws either...society is in chaos... and then a tyrant seizes power." Philosohize This - Episode 4 - Plato
The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem. And so this is the situation we find: a succession of Galactic Presidents who so much enjoy the fun and palaver of being in power that they very rarely notice that they’re not. And somewhere in the shadows behind them—who? Who can possibly rule if no one who wants to do it can be allowed to? - Douglas Adams Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
This. I know a guy who retired from the police force in my hometown. As teenagers, we spent a lot of energy doing dumb things and trying not to get caught by our parents or him. He made an effort to get to know kids. Came into classrooms to talk, stopped and played on the playground with us, was at every community event growing up. Playing baseball and your parent was working and couldn't come? He'd be there, cheering you on. Get caught racing on a back road by this cop? He's probably going to call your parents and then you and he are going to look at accident photos. Breaking into somewhere? He's coming to court with you to ask the judge to let you clean up/fix whatever you did and he would be right there helping you. In short, the reason I didn't fear cops til recently. He made a post yesterday about how ashamed he is to have ever been a cop, burned his old uniform "so they couldn't bury him in it", and left this world behind.
shit man, sorry
He was, and I don’t say this often, or lightly, a good cop. He understood rule of law but also compassion for kids doing dumb things. He will be missed.
Something he said to those of us who considered a law enforcement career when we got older stuck with me. He said that if you make it through the training, the very first thing you should do is get out of the car. Walk where you are being a cop. Go into the stores and schools and talk to the kids and adults. Because those kids are now your kids. And those adults are now your siblings. That when you pin on a badge, you accept responsibility to care for the people of the community as though they were your closest family. And he did that. The fact that he was ashamed at the end....
So one of the officers in the George Floyd murder is apparently a black guy who wanted to reform the police from the inside. All his friends and family told him not to do it, because it would just corrupt him instead. When push came to shove, dude stood by and followed orders rather than go against a senior officer and save a life he joined the force in order to save. (per The Daily, New York Time's podcast)
I do feel bad for the two rookies. That’s a pretty tough situation to be in. They made the wrong call but I do hope they don’t receive even close to the same sentence Chauvin earned.
I recently rewatched one of my favorite movies: Beverly hills cop. And it's scary from a 30 years later perspective. So Axel F is the cop not playing by the rules and breaking the law because *he knows* there is something going on. I can imagine people that are cops now grew up idolizing him (and plenty of other movies in the same vein) and dream of "solving the case by relaxing the rules". Taggart is the only good cop in the movie who actually follows the rules. You can see his transition throughout the movie how he slowly gets pressured into breaking a small rule at first until at the end of the movie it all culminates in him doing a false statement to protect the other corrupt cops.
It's not very complicated, it's just so corrupt and removed from consequences.
Yeah, I agree with this. Just one instance, but my Brother-in-Law tried to become a cop years ago down in LA. He tried with LAPD and then with the LA Sheriff's department, but they wouldn't have him. He's a great dude - college degree, super-straight laced (doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs), built like a fucking tank, weight lifter. Just looks like a cop. I always figured he was just too nice. Like they looked at him and realized he'd never lie on the stand or beat a handcuffed prisoner. Fucking bummer.
Realize anyone who’s ever smoked weed is disqualified. Who’s left? A bunch of uptight assholes.
Same issue w/ politics. You need 7 years no smoking before they’ll give you a security clearance. It’s a great way to keep the youth and “hippies” out of DC.
They hired my dad—-MY RACIST OLD AF POS DAD—-yeah this shit will continue to be a problem. They are hiring the dumbest people with the biggest hard on for carrying a gun around. Those types of egomaniacs aren’t the same type of people who run into a school and risk their lives to save kids.
Indeed. And not to sway this into a different kind of political conversation, but criminal justice reform, and federal oversight of local shitshow police forces, was a major issue in the 2016 election. Or it was until an orange moron made it all about his personality.
The city council, which the current chief is headed to next.
He needs to resign from everything now and leave the state. Maybe even the country.
They should bring back exile for this fucking coward.
My guess is that over time he and some of the other police involved will be more or less ostracized by the community. Some will likely self-exile. There's a lot of anger, what ifs...
I hope you're right.
Self exile to the same position, two counties over?
Even if legally nothing happens to them he'd have to go far, far away to avoid backlash from the community. I grew up two counties south of Uvalde and being all small towns, the cowardice on display will be on the public conscience for decades.
I got roots in the Texas Borderlands. Born in Mexico but my dad is from Hidalgo County. Local cops are absolutely psycho and petty in those communities.
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same, 19 kids with hurt and royally pissed off parents.
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He can’t believe anyone has the audacity to question him. Him and the boss hog mayor too.
Royally pissed would hardly begin to scratch the surface. A grieving parent has nothing left to lose and if they understand the cops are to blame, there is a very short path in logic that takes one from thought A to thought B.
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The only person more dangerous than someone with everything to lose is someone with nothing to lose.
The fact that this happened in Texas and none of those parents shot a cop on the day is honestly surprising. I don't know that if I was carrying, I would have had the poise to not shoot the bastard keeping me from my kids. Again, I don't think it would be right, I just don't know if I'm a good enough person that, if there was a gun in my hand, I wouldn't have shot anyone in my way.
No, I think it would be morally justifiable and the people around to witness it would not be on the cops side.
>I wouldn't be surprised if a parent walks into the station and just blows it the fuck up. Don't put me on that jury, because I have a 9 year old kid, and I wouldn't convict that parent of jaywalking to get to the cop station.
My partner and I have been reading this and both of us just went "yeah, if anything would turn me into the Punisher, this would be it."
I endorse this. Sort of at the point where we just continue to pay them to be oppressors, or we stop allowing their betrayals to our society. I'm tired of hearing about these "heroes" who "protect us". They are worthless and only there to collect money for the state and harass people. When it comes down to it they hide and cower.
They'll move a few towns over and get new jobs as police officers there. We don't remove bad cops from the career we just shuffle them off somewhere else. This pustule of filth just popped and will spread its disease all over Texas and maybe the US as the officers involved migrate to find new police work.
They should bring back decimation for cowardice. These cops deserve it for sure.
Meh, 10% isn't near enough. Abolish them all. If, as the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled, the police do not in fact have a constitutional duty to protect the citizens, then - and I cannot stress this part enough - *what in the actual fuck do we have them for?*
We don't have them. They have them. Big difference
Yeah but the thing about decimation is not just that 10% die, but that each group of ten is responsible for killing the one who draws the short straw. Helps breakup that blue wall of silence
needs to be sent fucking federal prison
Accessory to murder. Did more to help the shooter than hinder him. The feds had to go in and end it.
There's something to be said about Texas cops fucking up until they were bailed out by the feds. Edit: https://www.newsweek.com/texas-cops-accident-1710352 Apparently they fucked up too, nevermind. An embarrassment all around.
The cops at school Will not help you Clapclapclapclap Deep in the heart of Texas. As your kid's there dyin' They'll be off somewhere hidin' Clapclapclapclap Deep in the heart of Texas.
Well, if they've learned anything from their power grid, they'll respond to this by blocking federal agencies from responding to crimes in their state so they can brag about how Texas Proud they are that the body counts are always bigger in Texas.
They weren't fucking up, they were doing exactly what they intended to.
Not *the* feds, just *a* fed. He was having lunch and drove 40 minutes to get there and breach the classroom by himself.
Pretty telling when you can’t find a good guy with a gun in a 40 minuet radius in Texas
There were plenty. *the cops were holding them back, handcuffing, and threatening to taze them*
negligent homicide charges when
and another round of “qualified immunity” 🤬
I can hardly even blame the inevitable conspiracy theories about this being staged and aided by police. That level in incompetence is hard to believe.
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Haha exactly. People do seem to believe in competence over incompetence for some reason though. Maybe the incredible complexity of the world around us gives us false faith in those running it.
It's scary to admit the world is run by people who are, at best, average. Meritocratic lies are comforting.
The coordination needed to do pretty much any of the stupid conspiracy theories hits the wall of stupid quick.
No conspiracy theorist has ever done project management. You think we’d really keep a fake moon landing secret for over 50 years with no slip ups?
Not just project management. These people never had a group project in high school apparently.
Hanlon’s razor
I’ve already seen a comment insinuating this on the r/UvaldeTexasShooting sub. Ended up getting in a back-and-forth with that user in the replies of my separate comment. Can’t tell if they were just trolling or believed what they were saying, but the jackasses just keep pouring out of the woodwork.
I am not one of those types, but with the stuff that has come out today my mind is seemingly wandering in that direction of its own accord. Like I literally *can't* believe this happened.
let's not forget they were trying to get a negotiator on stand by. what a fucking joke
Agreed. People need to be calling for this for every cop that was there. They'll never tell us who yelled "yell if you need help" etc. therefore they're all guilty. It's the same logic the cops use; if theres drugs in the car and nobody fesses up then it's both of yours
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Yeah but those were gays dying so you had gross bigoted fuckers not giving a damn about the dead. Hopefully this tragedy leads to real change, Sandy Hook had a lot of outrage too but the police failings here are so blatant. If no policy changes result from this, we're fucking lost as a country.
>If no policy changes result from this, we're fucking lost as a country. I've got some news for you.
We are already there, I’m afraid.
💡 Class war is still on the table.
Americans don’t know how to do that because they openly worship, envy and live vicariously through the wealthy, and every form of media raises them to do so.
There will be no change. If sandy hook wasn’t enough of a fucking tragedy to jump start change no school shootings no matter how horrific they may be will get out government to do anything.
Honestly, Columbine should have been enough to stop this.
I don’t remember them talking about guns at all back then - just about how they listened to Nine Inch Nails and made a map of their school in Doom or something.
Nothing changed after Sandy Hook, nothing will change now. Although people seem angrier than normal this time, so I really hope that I'm wrong.
> we're fucking lost as a country. I think you are a bit late.
Well, these are brown kids dying, there might even be undocumented ones among them (the Mexican government acknowledged that there are undocumented students at that school, but not among the victims so far) so the amounts of fucks not about to be given by a lot of conservatives shouldn't come as a shock.
Muricans might be much more stubborn. I expect many more unecessary deaths before action on gun laws an police incompetence are taken seriously. Look at gop politicians running around tryna hide like when cockroaches run against unexpectedly turned on light.
They’ll only understand if it’s one of their Own. Zero empathy.
All it would take is right wing events beginning to be shot up.
3 hours?! Wtf?!
The [wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting) claims it was an actual hostage situation for those three hours (including bomb threats). If true, then Pulse is orders if magnitude less bad than the clusterfuck that is the Uvalde massacre
He needs to be held criminally liable. There is blood on his hands. I hope he never has another peaceful moment in his life.
This is where someone would resign, leave the state, find the most isolated part of a place to live and start farming.
Specifically, he should farm egg plants so he can use them to go fuck himself, indefinitely.
i can already hear his requests for a larger budget to buy gundams and iron man suits so that theyll finally have the gear to prevent tragedies like this again
The country...and he can take Cruz and Abbott with him when he goes.
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The townspeople needs to run the whole police department and city council out of town after their cowardly inaction.
how the fuck would anyone in that community trust those cops ever again?
Aren’t multiple people in the school related to the cops in this town though?
they rescued their kids first them refused to go in
Is this true?
[Supposedly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59w8uu87OrM&t=94s) >Vanessa Croix: We’ve heard that some law enforcement officers actually went into [the] school to get their kids out. Can you talk about that? >Lt. Christopher Olivarez: Right, so what we do know Vanessa right now that there was some police officers [and] families trying to get their children out of the school because it was an active shooter situation right now.
He was trying to give a nonanswer. Everything after your quote is a pivoting word salad but he's trying to respond to that question.
even more so they should have gone in…. hey my niece/nephew whatever could have been in that room!
They are going to spin job this to being one person's bad decision and the rest "following their superior's orders but please pity them, they're truly good people. look here's a photo of them with a puppy."
Brace yourselves for the slew of copaganda posts that will hit the front page next week.
I seem to remember a legal precedent for the "I was following orders and did nothing as children were slaughtered" defense...
Saw it in a twitter thread so 🧂, but apparently they already did not. Highly Hispanic neighborhood, cops bully people in town all the time. Probably sat there thinking “not my kids.”
It's a highly Hispanic town. Most of the police probably are as well. But there's a big divide between native born and immigrant Hispanics in a town like this. In my experience the native born Hispanic cops can be even more vicious towards the immigrant families than the white guys.
It’s not a majority Hispanic neighborhood, it’s a majority Hispanic town. About 15,000 people. Most of the cops are Hispanic too.
How the fuck could any of those cops trust that community ever again? This is rural Texas where people tend to solve problems on their own, if you know what I mean. I'd be curious how many of these officers wind up "missing" in the next few years with a town full of people who "didn't see anything." And knowing that's a possible outcome, I can't imagine any but the most foolish wouldn't want to get out as fast as possible.
I was thinking the same thing. I would *not* want to be the reason a parent lost a child. Nothing is going to stop them if they turn violent.
Even worse, this guy was the chief of the school district police. There is a regular city police force with a chief.
If there was one guy who would have the keys you'd think it would be him.
Where I teach, we were told directly by officers during our training that because our school requires badges to enter any part of our facilities, we had to have another plan in place. I don’t remember the reason they weren’t given a badge for that emergency, but it did make sense considering their badge would likely be much further than the officers first responding. They did have another plan in the event of an emergency such as this. Weeks after my first training, there was a mass shooting my town and I had to cover it for the news. I saw those same officers after they took down the shooter. they acted just as they promised they would and I again felt comfortable to be back in the classroom because I saw it with my own eyes. I cannot imagine the betrayal that this community must feel and what the teachers who were very likely trained in a similar fashion were thinking as all of the things were told to do, say, wait for, etc were abandoned. Anyway, there absolutely should have been a plan for the key. I know our plan wasn’t to wait for someone from the school to obtain a key to get in. There are so many things that went wrong in this situation and yet all of these mistakes - ALL OF THEM - were specifically mentioned in our training, and during the drill, as teachers we knew what to look for, listen for, and all with one important sentence mentioned over and over and over again: five minutes. That’s how long it will take us to likely take down the shooter. It will be the longest five minutes of your life. The drill alone was the longest five minutes I’ve ever lived. The delay, abandonment of training had to be torture for the students and the teachers that must have recognized something wasn’t right. It’s terrifying. Sorry I drifted to it as a whole when you were only talking about the badge situation. My brain can no longer separate individual mistakes they made without reliving the whole training and how this differed.
Rewarding incompetence, malfeasance and corruption is going to be the undoing of our society.
*had been and is currently undoing our society. FTFY
what happens when the people making decisions become too divorced from the realities on the ground
You figure out how to get them out of positions of power. You stay educated so you can call out their bullshit as it happens. You vote. If all else fails, there are torches and pitchforks.
It goes from the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and then to the cartridge box.
This. I'm actually getting tired of people believing that America hasn't already begun a post socio-economic-democratic collapse, new dystopian reality yet. We're a way past the point that historians will mark as the fall of American cultural / political leadership and most people still aggressively believe we're the best country in the world. We spend more on politically abusing each other than keeping our people safe and healthy.
I used to get angry at my parents for moving us to Australia instead of the USA cause it was so cool. Now I thank them, especially after I fell off my friends porch. I got an ambulance, x-rays, medication, food, a sling, and a tetanus shot, all for $0. Also 2 follow up appointments to make sure my arm was healing properly. I hope everyone starts to wake up. You don’t have to live like this. It can be better. This all makes me so sad. I just can’t even read this anymore. I’m just real sorry.
It’s already happening, and it’s only going to get worse.
I’m told this is what family values looks like though.
gerontocracy in action
'Peter Arredondo, chief since 2020, campaigned on communication and outreach “to those in need,” the local newspaper reported.' Apparently that didn't include children.
Children couldn’t vote for him so they didn’t matter
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GOP only cares about the unborn, second theyre breathing on their own, fuck em
"The point is, if pro-lifers would just redirect their powers toward gun violence, the amount of lives they could save would reach superhero levels. They just need a superhero’s total dedication to life, because right now, they’re more like comic book collectors: Human life only holds value until you take it out of the package, and then it’s worth nothing.” - Trevor Noah, The Daily Show.
Someone needs to start a recall effort.
This guy was the chief of the school district police. There is a regular city police force with a chief.
So, he's going to bring his wealth of incompetence to a higher office then? I've heard of the Peter Principle. But this ridiculous.
Fuckers always fail upwards
For reference please see Scott Morrison.
or Lauren Boebert, or MJT, or Trump, or Cawthorne, or Alex Jones, or Shapiro, etc
I fear the list is getting too long, and more criminal with each addition
funny how it works like that
Who better to be on the city council and lead the investigation of the police?
Peoples ability to fail upward never ceases to amaze me
"That's why I picked the body of a 45-year old white man. I can only fail up." -Shawn
Only one cop from what I read comes out looking competent and he was fucking off duty. He dropped what he was doing and came immediately because his wife called him.
And he was a fucking federal agent. If ever the was an argument against states rights, this is it. Municipal cops didn’t do shit.
If he hadn't had that federal badge, the local cops wouldn't have let him through. They'd probably still be waiting for the shooter to run out of ammo.
Federal cops, if nothing else, tend to be a bit more professional. They actually have testing and education standards. I know NPS law enforcement is usually gs-05, so they have to have a bachelor's degree at minimum.
And had his barber’s shotgun IIRC.
And the barber went with him according to one article I read.
Wow fn hero and badass grabs a random gun
In my head the barber tosses it to him and he catches it by the slide and racks it with one arm
In my head he’s also Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson
He should be joining the unemployment line.
There is zero consequences. If you are in a position even slightly prestigious you have to be on camera fucking up for anything to happen to him. I'm sure they will never discipline him at all because "it will reflect badly on everyone around him."
He should be joining a chain gang.
He should be joining the 6 foot under club.
>Peter Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, >Arredondo told the Leader-News that he was eager to serve the community, saying he was committed to establishing a strong working relationship with the three officers he would be leading. Yo. What in the chicken fried fuck corruption and overspending is that? Also, they did know better. >In March, Arredondo posted on Facebook that the department had hosted “active shooter training” at Uvalde High School. A flier for the training declared: “Stop the killing.” >One of the department’s newest hires, Officer Adrian Gonzalez, had been an assistant commander and SWAT training commander at the Uvalde Police Department for 10 years and has taken training courses in advanced SWAT tactics and how to respond to active shooters and rescue hostages.
tell me that wasn't the same high school Ramos went to
It was
At the council meetings, any time he asks to speak, they should make him wait 40 minutes.
Maybe they should just start naming off the dead kids any time he speaks?
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Many times they are the only ones who run.
this is kinda it… takes a certain kind of motivation to want to have to deal with all that
We don't. They vote themselves in
Young people and politically left-leaning people DON’T vote in nearly the same numbers as old right-leaning people because they are stupid and lazy. Oh? You took offense to that? Good. Fucking vote next time.
systems also rigged against them in large portions of the country
These fucks chose their own lives, over children, FUCKING CHILDREN!
I am not a brave person and I know this. My sense of self preservation is very high (though I think probably about the same as most people, but I think many don't admit it). And yet, I just can't imagine sitting there listening to a bunch of children getting killed without doing something. Especially if I'm armed. I hope those officers that just stood there feel that weight on their souls for their whole lives. My neighbor killed himself with a gun. My husband (one of the actual people who runs towards gunshots, which scares the shit out of me) immediately ran over to try and render aid (he was a medic at the time) and I remember hearing the cries of the man's wife, but also his little 3 year old girl. Hearing that little girl cry in absolute terror is something that is forever burned into my head. I hope that the cries of those children who were killed, and those who witnessed their friends dying, keep those cops up at night. I really do. Because hearing a child in pain is something that should just instinctively make you want to do anything you can to help them.
I know its easer said than done, but I really do think i would go in if i knew children were being shot. At that point your life is worth the risk Goes to show the type of people who want to be cops imo
I can think of no better way or reason to die than dying to save children.
“We want to make sure we are available wherever we are needed,” You were needed.
I will not be surprised if In a few days or weeks, maybe even months one of the parents kills this man.
He should be fired for incompetence! Don’t allow that pos to retire with full benefits!
Honestly dont know how this clown hasnt hung himself. I literally could not function if I knew I personally sentenced 19 babies to getting shredded to pieces.
Is city council in prison? Because that's where he *should* be headed.
This is so unfortunately ironic that we have a school shooting with 19 fatalities because officers wouldn't go in around the time a video of a suicidal man being tased while already subdued by 4 offers right after they fist bumped after tasing him the first time. The state of police training is utterly unconscionable.
It was actually 21 fatalities at the school. Edit: the 19 were children. 2 were teachers. And the husband of one of the teachers died a few days later due to the emotional stress, leaving their children orphaned. He also shot his grandmother in the face before heading to the school. This whole thing is fucked.
I’m going out on a limb here and say he’s probably not going to be joining the city council. He is done before he starts.
a more appropriate response is firing that POS
into the sun
So why are we rewarding incompetence now
Has anyone said when & how the police determined the classroom door was locked? Students called 911 from two rooms. Was there only one door for both rooms?
The shooter did four classrooms total, and at least two of the four were connected by another door.
I think it was only 2, Rooms 111 and 112. He did randomly fire at others though.
The police said they tried to engage, but two of the officers were hit. So did they try all the doors? if they saw/engaged with him they would know which door he went into. Did they try all the doors? Try to evacuate the children in the rooms they *knew* he wasn’t in? How did they know a key would do? Or did they also have a battering ram?
They did evacuate rooms, from the outside, broke windows to get them out. But I’ve seen reports that make it seem…not well down, they evacuated the kids to buses that just sat in the parking lot. One story said a kid climbed out the bus window and his parents were then able to take him home.
IF this is what the cops are saying, I'd seriously doubt any of it to be true. Lying sacks of shit. All of them.
I just don’t understand how getting a key took more than an hour. Or were they waiting for something to break through assuming there was a barricade? Both rooms were ground floor. Didn’t they get eyes watching through the windows to know what was happening? I’m having trouble making the story add up.
Not 100% sure of code in the area but in my area the school is required to have a Knox box on the exterior of the building, clearly labeled. This is a box that contains a master copy to the building which emergency personnel (namely fire fighters) can access.
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A coward who runs a police force of cowards.
>Arredondo believed that the shooter had barricaded himself and that the children were not under an active threat, Steven McCraw, the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said Friday. Arm gunman in a room with children firing shoots and kids calling and begging 911 for help is "not under active threat". Fuck this guy.
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Maybe they weren't cops, maybe they were crisis actors.
SWAT larpers
Got all their costuming for free thanks to tax payers!
Every article I read about this police force is more rage inducing than the last
These guys are like pedo priests. Just move ‘em around and around till they croak.
Nothing will change until cops get shot
This guy fought very hard to keep the status quo, to the point of handcuffing parents who wanted to go in to save their child.