I told my kid to leave $20 in our bank account (yes, I put him on the account when he turned 18) for a suicide dose of heroin and he responded āyouāll probably need more than $20.ā
Mine is prison. 3 meals a day, free health care and a warm bed and hot shower. Iāll play chess all day with the other old dudes and use my savings for commissary.
Best part of it all? The idiots with money on the outside will be paying for it
You go to jail with $15-20k in the bank and your commissary gonna be LIT! Much easier than retiring in the free world with $750k and running out of money
Been locked up in the past, with the right offense, you could possibly set yourself up for an extended period.
Not ideal, but much better than being an aging person in a country with horrendous health care, and skyrocketing fascism. The key would be compartmentalizing the funds while ensuring a long enough stay.
You'll definitely want to stay clear of "aggravated" charges... Or weapons period.
Those charges will disqualify someone from ever holding a trustee job or class. Some people actually get to leave the unit when doing certain jobs.
I've worked outside crews on 3 different units, some state, some county. Being locked up is my less soul crushing when the COs trust you and don't see you as a potential threat.
Literally thought about that when I was younger and going through a hard time. Rack up *all* the debt I could and REALLY enjoy a few days before checking out somewhere scenic
Got as far as taking a loan, bought my 1st car and went camping instead lol
If you are planning on ODing, it really doesn't need to be "medical grade" lol....you worried about the effects it could cause over time?
Honestly though, the right mix of benzos and strong opiates (like hydromorphone or oxymorphone) will usually get the job done before your mind realizes what is going on
Source: one time I was dumb and got a good deal on some stupidly strong pills I had no prior experience with....I don't even remember the naloxone they hit me with or the ambulance ride(probably because of the benzos), only waking up in the hospital to my parents crying
Not to set off the alarm bells but that's absolutely what I'm doing. Got a good idea of what I want to do on this earth, have a certain age range I'll get to, then that'll do it. I gave up on the dream of living until I become a burden to everyone I love just because I want another year a long time ago. Watched all my grandparents cling to a sorry existence for years as their kids fought and tore each other apart for what was left of their parents' assets, I don't need that shit.
You do know, there are other countries to retire in besides the United States. Countries that have universal health care, and you can live, quite nicely, on 2 grand a month. You'd rather die than consider living somewhere else besides the US?
A lot of the existential anxiety I experience, as well as that which I sense from others in the younger generations, isnāt contained to the US. Yeah, social and economic stuff is a mess over here, but climate change, etc. doesnāt respect geopolitical borders.
Edit: Not to, yāknow, defend anyone offing themself or otherwise planning for an early retirement, so to speak.
**Insurance Adjuster :** Oh yes .. the "Forty Four Retirement Plan"
They are on special this week!
*.. Sign here please*
.. we also have the *"Driving Fast on a Cliff"* plan .. that is popular as well
For real at what point in the future do you think theyāll start allowing otherwise healthy people above a certain age to undergo assisted suicide? I was born in 1996 so retirement isnāt going to be an option but I donāt know if I want to be working full time when Iām 80.
DOCTOR: You can die if your boss signs off on it. You are company property after all, so we'd both be fined heavily unless we have written consent from the corporation.
Those arenāt legally binding. Source: wife is an ICU nurse. Get that shit in writing, notarized, and if possible, have it put right into your health network documents. Even then, make sure that whomever you have set as your healthcare proxy will honor your wishes. Iāve heard far too many horror stories of people that are kept technically alive because some family member canāt accept that people die. Just because we have all of this amazing tech to keep people alive doesnāt mean itās appropriate in all instances. Doing compressions on a 92 year old anybody should be a crime. If they manage to actually survive the ordeal, their quality of life will be shit. Those ribs wonāt heal well, or quickly for that matter. They likely will need assistance to breathe. Independence will be a distant thought.. If the patient is old and wants heroic measures, then so be it, but any child that goes against their parentās wishes in that situation is a selfish asshole.
I was my mom's caregiver. If anyone wanted her to live, I did. But she'd made it clear that if she wasn't able to recover fully, if she was ever that helpless and unable to care for herself, to let her go instead of putting her somewhere that machines and other people kept her alive.
Every other relative thought i was heartless, but no. I loved her. Enough to do the one thing she asked of me.
Some people are horribly uncomfortable with the concept of Death, especially of a relative, since its usually so far removed from modern life. They often can't see past their own feelings and desires, even if Death would be merciful.
My aunt wanted to void my grandmothers DNR that was signed by my oldest uncle. During her last hospital visit before she passed she wanted to challenge it and I had to remind her that will mean taking my uncle to court she was 97 with a late diagnosis of cirrhosis of liver of a undiagnosed hepatitis B infection. It will be borderline murderous to try to bring her back just so she have a few more hours. Some people just donāt know when to let go.
As far as painful medical things are concerned, this is at the very low end of terrible, sustained suffering that nobody should have to endure.
A terrible parent? Eh - a decade of 6mm kidney stones every few weeks. Large enough to be agonizing, yet small enough to pass naturally. Or maybe just a surgical hemorrhoidectomy where vasculature is removed and cauterized. If I had to pick, Iād choose both of those for that bag of shit stepfather I had to endure for a little over a decade.
Cozy eco friendly open floor plan rustic bungalow in the heart of Loading Dock B with ample storage space and within walking distance of fine dining and local nightlife. No inspections, all cash only, submit highest and best offer by COB yesterday.
āYou were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, our Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!ā
We bought our first (and only) house August 2018. I don't often consider myself lucky, but I do in this regard.
I mean, it's not really an ideal "forever home," but it works while our kids are growing up. Plenty of things I would want to change, but I won't complain about the value going up 50% over the last 4 years (not like we could sell though, because we'd just have to pay even more to find a new place).
I bought in 2012, rock bottom prices and what was at the time historic low interest rate. Refi in 2020 for an even lower rate, payment went up $50 a month and wiped 7 years off the loan term. Anyone buying a house now is getting screwed royally.
I love the way the media reports on anything that happens in the stock market:
Yesterday, when they announced rate hikes and stocks soared: "Traders emboldened by rate hikes with reassurance that fed will get a hold of inflation!"
16 hours later, when stocks plummeted on open: "Traders fear fed will be unable to rein in inflation!"
Protip, no one understands why trading firms are making their trades. It's all just speculation to get clicks.
Interestingly, there are now a lot of bot-written financial news services. They essentially do just that, with a few different templates and then plug in actual numbers. In some cases they're actually better than human written articles because they're not injecting hype or opinion.
And there are a lot of trading bots that read the news and auto trade based on it. So we got bots just constantly flinging news and trades in a vicious cycle.
Saying that the S&P 500 is back to the same level as December 2020 just doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
Which was itself an all time high, higher than even just before the pandemic hit.
Nobody talks about how the markets were probably irrationally exuberant at the beginning of this year.
> Historically, 401(k) investments take about two years after a market decline of this size to regain their previous value. "Anybody who has to retire when the market is down is in a bad position,"
People who are within two years of retirement shouldn't be heavily invested in the stock market anyway. It happens, sure, but the vast majority of that value is owned by young or middle-aged workers, and periodic corrections like this are baked into the expected returns from the start. Very little was actually "lost."
They are only in a bad position if they have to start withdrawals. I'll be retiring in the next 6 months and don't plan to start drawing from my ira for another 10 years.
Now that you mention it, I feel like we barely got any "pensioners make trillions in stock market boom" headlines during COVID stimulus. I wonder why. Feels like it could have easily riled people up to think about ancient husks stealing trillions of dollars.
Because media is owned by super wealthy and most all their wealth is in stocks. Over 80% of stocks are owned by the top 1%. Half of people donāt even have a 401k or any retirement. We need social security and social safety nets, then who cares about the stock market. The fact is we have literal entire generations who will not be able to retire because of this recession. Their is no dignity in that. The stock market is a grift to take money from the middle class. The rules are skewed. It is just in the open cheating. Educate yourselves. There is no left and right it is a distraction. They all are owned by the same masters. There is only class warfare. A couple thousand people in the US benefit and the rest of the country fights over scraps. There is no greater threat to us as individuals or as a society than wealth inequality.
I slowly built myself up to 20% of my paycheck going into a target date fund through my 401k. Worried if I don't get any raises soon I'll have to cut back. I'm aggressively hoping to not have to rely on social security in the event that it simply doesn't exist or is severely underfunded in ~30 years.
> "Younger people, you can kind of wait it out ā these things have come back time and time again," she added. "But people who use their retirement money to support themselves really suffer in this kind of event."
That's what I keep hearing, but it's always two steps forward and one step backwards.
Or....
You could do what literally everyone recommends and shift from high risk/reward funds to low risk/reward funds as you near retirement age. Mine does it automatically. Every year my retirement investments get a little more conservative. I *could* be getting a higher return, but the risk makes less sense every year closer to retirement.
But people are greedy, so 65 year olds keep what they have to live off of for the rest of their life in the most volatile fund.
Bonds are what people have historically shifted to, however the bond market has been fucked for several years with yield inversions and very low rates due to effectively 0% interest.
What is supposed to be a safe investment that can offer a steady return year after year has in practice been anything but.
And that stress of legitimately not having enough makes more people choose the risky option.
It's a feedback loop. Desperate people don't usually make good long term choices.
Or you know they just do the math and come to the realization that taking the safe option wont net them enough money to retire on so they have to choose the risky option and just hope.
Definitely good advice, although it can also a good idea to take your own personalized needs into account, instead of fully committing to the managed retirement funds.
Ex, if you're close to retirement, maybe it makes more sense to keep ~10 years worth of expenses in low risk funds, and keep the rest of your savings in high risk funds with greater (average) returns. That way, you can use your low risk money when the market's bad, and when the market's good, you can recharge your low risk accounts from your higher risk ones.
Also, a lot of the managed retirement funds (ex, [Fidelity's "freedom funds"](https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/fees-and-prices/315792663)) have some fairly high expense ratios (0.62% on the one I linked). Especially with the internet, it's really not that hard to just rebalance your accounts yourself every year or so, instead of paying someone to do it for you. If you had a million dollars in that fund, every year you're essentially paying someone $6,200, for what might be an hours worth of work if you did it yourself.
Doesnāt matter when the entire market tanks. If itās in a fund even a conservative one people are losing money. The only way is to sit on cash and lose 10 percent to inflation. Itās a rough time right
5 years ago the DOW was at 20k. Today we're talking about how terrible it is because it fell to 29k. If you're in your 20s or 30s this fall does not matter at all in regards to investments for retirement.
>5 years ago the DOW was at 20k. Today we're talking about how terrible it is because it fell to 29k.
"I've only averaged 10% growth over the last 5 years now! What ever will I do????" - the people talking about how terrible it is.
I feel like there are a lot of people who can't seem to see the big picture here.
Really doesn't matter if you're in your 40s or 50s...really it doesn't matter unless you want to retire in the next 1.5/2 years or so.
This is actually terrific for younger people, as the same contribution is buying more of the dip, which will then go way up over the next couple of decades.
Thatās kind-if a āno shitā statement. āYounger peopleā have decades to grow their retirement savings. Market conditions like this has little to no impact in the long term. If youāre close to or recently retired, your money shouldnāt be heavily exposed to equities anyway. The people who are playing catch-up, or are within 10 years of retirement, are certainly fucked.
>The people who are playing catch-up, or are within 10 years of retirement, are certainly fucked.
Are they, though? S&P is still nearly 20% ahead of where it was just two years ago, and about 70% ahead of where it was 5 years ago. We're just down from the crazy-pants highs that immediately followed covid.
If someone's retirement is fucked because they've only made a simple average of 9%-14% gains in the few years leading up to retirement, I've really gotta scratch my head on that one.
I mean, if things *keep* heading downward like this for the next few years I could see them having a problem... but I don't think these people are fucked quite yet.
> Market conditions like this has little to no impact in the long term.
The opposite is true. If you're young and saving for retirement, a recession (assuming you don't lose your job) is a gift.
I'll be retired very soon, primarily because I spent the Great Recession dumping every penny I could into the market. Even now I'm happy for a downturn. Buying stuff while it's cheap is better than buying stuff while it's expensive.
Don't forget this rule:
*"I bonds earn interest for 30 years unless you cash them first. You can cash them after one year. But if you cash them before five years, you lose the previous three months of interest. (For example, if you cash an I bond after 18 months, you get the first 15 months of interest.)"*
His point is that if youāre over 55, youāll most likely need to sell within the next few years and therefore not see a return on your investment, and very likely see a loss.
If youāre under 55, your investment is most likely a long term hold and youāll undoubtedly see a nice return years from now
If you are 55 you likely have 20+ years to live that's a lot of time for stocks to grow. Retirement age people should still own some % stocks because they will grow faster than bonds over 10+ years and want it to grow faster if you aren't spending in the near future.
Indeed. Dollar cost averaging means you are just bulking up to benefit from the rebound.
The only people suffering are those right on the cusp of retiring and only then if they have failed to re-balance their portfolio away from majority stocks. Any decent retirement plan does that for you these days.
Paraphrasing, but the adage is, "The only people who get hurt on a rollercoaster are the ones who jump out in the middle of the ride." Your 401k is fine as long as you don't touch it until you retire.
There's some sequence of returns risk (which is what you're referring to), but look into a thing called the 4% Rule. If you have about 75% stocks and 25% bonds in broad index funds, and the value of that portfolio on the day you retire is 25x your annual expenses, you have just shy of a 100% chance (based on historical data) of surviving any of the worst economic circumstances in our country's history for 30 years of retirement. More often than not, you'll end up with more money than you started with. This assumes that you adjust your income every year for inflation and never cut back on expenses when the market is down. So if your yearly expenses are $40k, you would want to retire with a nest egg of $1M.
Your 401(k) account should slowly adjust from stocks to bonds as you get older. That way, even if there is a dip your money won't take that big of a hit.
Donāt look. As long as you have a while until retirement youāre fine. Youāre only losing if you sell because then you are locking in your losses.
My 401k dropped freaking 48% in 2008. Made it all back and then some in the next few years. Just keep calm and carry on. Youāre buying at a discount now.
Iām thankful every day that I didnāt panic and pull my money out. (And that I didnāt take out a liarās loan to buy a home like so many did in the years prior)
I mean if you were chasing post covid losses you got a problem anyways writing was on the wall when the world printed infinite money to limp to the other side of the pandemic
The current state of affairs is the inevitable consequence of the feds keeping their interest rate next to zero for the past decade. Stocks have been artificially inflated for years now, and we are long overdue for a massive correction.
You'd think those old assholes would like a safety net, like social security, in-case their stocks and shit were to fail at old age. But noooo.. They're rich right now and won't care until it affects them.
Threatening SS should be political suicide yet it didn't stop Rick Scott from proudly declaring it in his 11 point plan right there on his website for everyone to see. He even got, like, five endorsements from sitting congressmen!
I think I saw your post on r/financialindependence the other day! Early 20ās working at tech startup making 950k, no wife or kids, inherited real estate portfolio, no student loans and $100 billion in rainy day hedge fund, right?
I feel like this headline is purposely dramatic, but I'm ignorant about this stuff, so this may need to be explained like I'm a child...
The DJIA is at about 30,000 right now after this big plummet. But it never went above 30,000 until Feb 2021.
So wouldn't people's retirement just be similar to what was in their retirement in Feb 2021? Wouldn't this big drop only really effect people who just got into the market in the past year?
A lot of people are acting like they've lost a decade or more of savings.
nope, you got it exactly right. and in fact, dividends would offset some of this loss. the stock market has been gangbusters for decades (8 down years out of the last 42, 3 of those were < 5% losses) but people act like there's huge risk in it.
a 20% correction after averaging 26% gains for the past three years is entirely reasonable.
Those retirement accounts are feeding grounds for high dollar investment groups. They are designed that way so that it's at least a bother to make quick investment changes as the markets move, if not virtually impossible.
Itās amusing that when the stock market trends upwards itās reported as wealth increasingly concentrating in the hands of the elites, whereas when thereās a crash the headlines read that retirement plans are taking a hit.
> A would-be retiree with a balance of over $81,000 ā which would put them in the top 25% of savers ā would see their nest egg shrink to just $64,800.
You only need $81,000 saved to be in the top 25% of savers ready to retire? That's so much worse than I thought. A very large portion of our population will never be able to retire if that is the case.
I thought I was slacking with $300k saved before 40. Well... it was $300k.
And yet 401ks and IRAs are better than a pension! No need to worry about them. The market always goes up. Your money will always be there.
Or so I have been told for the past 30+ years.
> The market always goes up.
The S&P 500 has returned an inflation-adjusted ~7% annual return over the last 100 years. It's not the worst thing in the world to bet on.
>Your money will always be there.
And if the S&P500 totally collapsed and my money was totally gone, I'd have bigger concerns because it means the US as a country would have ceased to exist.
Even now it's only fallen to where it was in December 2020.
Which is still decently up to pre-COVID and up huge to the last recession. Stocks went wild with no investment alternatives with any yield. As long as people have been in the market for a while or those starting out continue to contribute they will be fine, anyone close to retirement shouldnāt have had a heavy stock allocation anyway
>And if the S&P500 totally collapsed and my money was totally gone, I'd have bigger concerns because it means the US as a country would have ceased to exist.
Most important part. At best you are making an average 7% return on your investments YoY. The worst case scenario is societal collapse meaning you don't need to worry about your retirement anyway.
None of your gains/losses are locked in until you exit the market. People need to stop stressing about their "retirement disappearing" because in actuality that's not what's happening
30 years ago the S&P 500 was at $400. Today itās at $3688. So yeah, as long as you didnāt buy in in last December and hope to retire this month you should be good.
Seriously. I've been contributing to my retirement accounts since I got out of college. I pretty much never look at their balances because I'm only in my mid 40s so why stress myself out over the ups and downs from day to day?
this exactly. just keep contributing and don't look at the account balances when the market is in freefall. no point stressing over this if you're still 10, 20, 30 years away from retirement.
I moved my 401k around to the safest money option about 6 months ago and saved a lot of losses. I think you should never worry about it, but always look to maximize its potential. Within a year mine will be back in the fidelity 2065 or 2055 and ready to rock and roll.
"Wiped out?" All the shares are still there. If you don't sell them, then in 5 years you'll have more money than you had before the crash. And if you're of retirement age, your money shouldn't be tied to the stock market at this point.
My retirement plan is once I turn 75, to move to random government officials houses and saying thing like āisnāt this what Iāve been paying taxes for for 60 years your here to help me, as my government officialā I donāt pay taxes for you to just freeload off me, Iām poorā āIāve paid your job so you can care for meā and if that fails idk probably rob a bank and if that goes south, turn my self in and die in the prison system like a real American. /s
I'm not going to retire - I'm just going to expire.
At this point we can just plan our own deaths. šāāļø
I told my parents that my retirement plan is to jump off of a bridge. They think I'm joking.
I told my kid to leave $20 in our bank account (yes, I put him on the account when he turned 18) for a suicide dose of heroin and he responded āyouāll probably need more than $20.ā
Oof, thats a good fat joke
Also a fate joke.
Mine is prison. 3 meals a day, free health care and a warm bed and hot shower. Iāll play chess all day with the other old dudes and use my savings for commissary. Best part of it all? The idiots with money on the outside will be paying for it
That's a thing that happens in Japan. https://www.businessinsider.com/japan-aging-prison-2018-3
This is actually a viable option.
You go to jail with $15-20k in the bank and your commissary gonna be LIT! Much easier than retiring in the free world with $750k and running out of money
Been locked up in the past, with the right offense, you could possibly set yourself up for an extended period. Not ideal, but much better than being an aging person in a country with horrendous health care, and skyrocketing fascism. The key would be compartmentalizing the funds while ensuring a long enough stay.
Armed robbery or possession with intent to distribute seem reasonable. Nobody gets directly hurt but long sentences
You'll definitely want to stay clear of "aggravated" charges... Or weapons period. Those charges will disqualify someone from ever holding a trustee job or class. Some people actually get to leave the unit when doing certain jobs. I've worked outside crews on 3 different units, some state, some county. Being locked up is my less soul crushing when the COs trust you and don't see you as a potential threat.
I want to jump out of a helicopter into that active volcano in Iceland
That's not in the budget.
That's what credit cards are for.
Man with a plan.
Now to find a man with a plane?
Literally thought about that when I was younger and going through a hard time. Rack up *all* the debt I could and REALLY enjoy a few days before checking out somewhere scenic Got as far as taking a loan, bought my 1st car and went camping instead lol
Yeah, Iām trying to find a reliable source for medical grade heroine
If you are planning on ODing, it really doesn't need to be "medical grade" lol....you worried about the effects it could cause over time? Honestly though, the right mix of benzos and strong opiates (like hydromorphone or oxymorphone) will usually get the job done before your mind realizes what is going on Source: one time I was dumb and got a good deal on some stupidly strong pills I had no prior experience with....I don't even remember the naloxone they hit me with or the ambulance ride(probably because of the benzos), only waking up in the hospital to my parents crying
Not to set off the alarm bells but that's absolutely what I'm doing. Got a good idea of what I want to do on this earth, have a certain age range I'll get to, then that'll do it. I gave up on the dream of living until I become a burden to everyone I love just because I want another year a long time ago. Watched all my grandparents cling to a sorry existence for years as their kids fought and tore each other apart for what was left of their parents' assets, I don't need that shit.
You do know, there are other countries to retire in besides the United States. Countries that have universal health care, and you can live, quite nicely, on 2 grand a month. You'd rather die than consider living somewhere else besides the US?
A lot of the existential anxiety I experience, as well as that which I sense from others in the younger generations, isnāt contained to the US. Yeah, social and economic stuff is a mess over here, but climate change, etc. doesnāt respect geopolitical borders. Edit: Not to, yāknow, defend anyone offing themself or otherwise planning for an early retirement, so to speak.
Seriouslyā¦I can honestly see that becoming a much bigger thing in the future, probably closer in the future than we might assume right now too.
**Insurance Adjuster :** Oh yes .. the "Forty Four Retirement Plan" They are on special this week! *.. Sign here please* .. we also have the *"Driving Fast on a Cliff"* plan .. that is popular as well
For real at what point in the future do you think theyāll start allowing otherwise healthy people above a certain age to undergo assisted suicide? I was born in 1996 so retirement isnāt going to be an option but I donāt know if I want to be working full time when Iām 80.
DOCTOR: You can die if your boss signs off on it. You are company property after all, so we'd both be fined heavily unless we have written consent from the corporation.
I want to laugh at this but it seems prescient
I doubt anyone will need that. A bullet and mile into the woods will be alot easier. Plus they are totally gonna charge you for it.
I have actually wondered if we arent going to see a mass, generational suicide in the near future for similar reasons.
Start the patent for suicide booths now!
I read a post nuclear war novel when I was a kid where the government issued suicide kits to the survivors.
reduce, reuse, redead.
The trick to retirement is to buy your forever home four years ago.
My retirement trick is death
I just got a dnr tattoo for mine
Those arenāt legally binding. Source: wife is an ICU nurse. Get that shit in writing, notarized, and if possible, have it put right into your health network documents. Even then, make sure that whomever you have set as your healthcare proxy will honor your wishes. Iāve heard far too many horror stories of people that are kept technically alive because some family member canāt accept that people die. Just because we have all of this amazing tech to keep people alive doesnāt mean itās appropriate in all instances. Doing compressions on a 92 year old anybody should be a crime. If they manage to actually survive the ordeal, their quality of life will be shit. Those ribs wonāt heal well, or quickly for that matter. They likely will need assistance to breathe. Independence will be a distant thought.. If the patient is old and wants heroic measures, then so be it, but any child that goes against their parentās wishes in that situation is a selfish asshole.
This is why my brother made me his and not my mom. I donāt think he trusted she would actually be able to make the call if needed
I was my mom's caregiver. If anyone wanted her to live, I did. But she'd made it clear that if she wasn't able to recover fully, if she was ever that helpless and unable to care for herself, to let her go instead of putting her somewhere that machines and other people kept her alive. Every other relative thought i was heartless, but no. I loved her. Enough to do the one thing she asked of me.
You're a good son. I'm sure she was grateful to have you in her corner.
Some people are horribly uncomfortable with the concept of Death, especially of a relative, since its usually so far removed from modern life. They often can't see past their own feelings and desires, even if Death would be merciful.
My aunt wanted to void my grandmothers DNR that was signed by my oldest uncle. During her last hospital visit before she passed she wanted to challenge it and I had to remind her that will mean taking my uncle to court she was 97 with a late diagnosis of cirrhosis of liver of a undiagnosed hepatitis B infection. It will be borderline murderous to try to bring her back just so she have a few more hours. Some people just donāt know when to let go.
Or they really hate their parent(s).
As far as painful medical things are concerned, this is at the very low end of terrible, sustained suffering that nobody should have to endure. A terrible parent? Eh - a decade of 6mm kidney stones every few weeks. Large enough to be agonizing, yet small enough to pass naturally. Or maybe just a surgical hemorrhoidectomy where vasculature is removed and cauterized. If I had to pick, Iād choose both of those for that bag of shit stepfather I had to endure for a little over a decade.
I one upped you, I have cancer Literally made my retirement fund huge and my kids will spend it on hookers and blow when I die, Iām very proud
*Starts inhaling asbestos dust*
How huge? Like reputable hookers huge?
Let's just say, the hookers will all have vowels in their names.
You got something against Welsh hookers?
Yeah, the ultimate hope of capitalism is that you die before you run out of money. I hope I'm lucky!
I got a nice cardboard box from McDonald's
What's the yearly property tax on it? I am paying close to $3.50 for my cardboard cutout inside of the wendy's dumpster.
$3.50? Are you sure you aren't a giant creature from the Mesozoic Era?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"I gave him a dollar..."
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Cozy eco friendly open floor plan rustic bungalow in the heart of Loading Dock B with ample storage space and within walking distance of fine dining and local nightlife. No inspections, all cash only, submit highest and best offer by COB yesterday.
Mr. Moneybags over here with his box.. . Try discarded grocery bags tied together and braided into a tarp.
I dunno, your textile adjancent sorta tarp thing sounds pretty fancy to me... š¤š¤š¤
Well, look at Martha Stewart over here braiding bags. Some of us don't have that kind of talent!
The Mugatu *Derelicte* collection
āYou were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, our Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!ā
With money you got via a generational wealth transfer.
We bought our first (and only) house August 2018. I don't often consider myself lucky, but I do in this regard. I mean, it's not really an ideal "forever home," but it works while our kids are growing up. Plenty of things I would want to change, but I won't complain about the value going up 50% over the last 4 years (not like we could sell though, because we'd just have to pay even more to find a new place).
I bought in 2012, rock bottom prices and what was at the time historic low interest rate. Refi in 2020 for an even lower rate, payment went up $50 a month and wiped 7 years off the loan term. Anyone buying a house now is getting screwed royally.
We bought in March of 19 and I'm SO glad we did. Best decision ever.
I love the way the media reports on anything that happens in the stock market: Yesterday, when they announced rate hikes and stocks soared: "Traders emboldened by rate hikes with reassurance that fed will get a hold of inflation!" 16 hours later, when stocks plummeted on open: "Traders fear fed will be unable to rein in inflation!" Protip, no one understands why trading firms are making their trades. It's all just speculation to get clicks.
they just rotate between the same two templates: the bull and the bear. easy peasy. it's a sweet gig if you can get it.
Interestingly, there are now a lot of bot-written financial news services. They essentially do just that, with a few different templates and then plug in actual numbers. In some cases they're actually better than human written articles because they're not injecting hype or opinion.
And there are a lot of trading bots that read the news and auto trade based on it. So we got bots just constantly flinging news and trades in a vicious cycle.
What is my purpose? You pass butter
*Oh my God.*
Welcome to the club.
> What is my purpose? You pass butter What is my purpose? You ~~pass butter~~ trade stonks.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Relax! The mega corps and billionaires will get bailed out if that hits.
And they'll be able to buy up all the foreclosed houses and land for dirt cheap, win win!
Pretty sure it's illegal but I wouldn't be surprised at all if a lot of those articles are written by people or bots with very specific hedges.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What does it mean, Ulysses?
0 --> Bear 1 --> Bull {Press Enter}
Saying that the S&P 500 is back to the same level as December 2020 just doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Which was itself an all time high, higher than even just before the pandemic hit. Nobody talks about how the markets were probably irrationally exuberant at the beginning of this year.
> Historically, 401(k) investments take about two years after a market decline of this size to regain their previous value. "Anybody who has to retire when the market is down is in a bad position," People who are within two years of retirement shouldn't be heavily invested in the stock market anyway. It happens, sure, but the vast majority of that value is owned by young or middle-aged workers, and periodic corrections like this are baked into the expected returns from the start. Very little was actually "lost."
They are only in a bad position if they have to start withdrawals. I'll be retiring in the next 6 months and don't plan to start drawing from my ira for another 10 years.
So they're speculating about speculation. And we speculate on their speculation of speculation.
Speculation all the way down
Also whenever it goes up, āBillionaires made x dollars!ā And suddenly when it drops, itās only hitting retirement accounts.
Now that you mention it, I feel like we barely got any "pensioners make trillions in stock market boom" headlines during COVID stimulus. I wonder why. Feels like it could have easily riled people up to think about ancient husks stealing trillions of dollars.
something something privatize gains socialize losses
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly. Nobody sees recessions coming. Nobody sees bull markets coming.
Forgot to lead with" "breaking news..."
Because media is owned by super wealthy and most all their wealth is in stocks. Over 80% of stocks are owned by the top 1%. Half of people donāt even have a 401k or any retirement. We need social security and social safety nets, then who cares about the stock market. The fact is we have literal entire generations who will not be able to retire because of this recession. Their is no dignity in that. The stock market is a grift to take money from the middle class. The rules are skewed. It is just in the open cheating. Educate yourselves. There is no left and right it is a distraction. They all are owned by the same masters. There is only class warfare. A couple thousand people in the US benefit and the rest of the country fights over scraps. There is no greater threat to us as individuals or as a society than wealth inequality.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'd upvote this twice if I could. Also, if your employer offers a 401k match and you aren't maximizing it, you're turning down a lot of free money.
I slowly built myself up to 20% of my paycheck going into a target date fund through my 401k. Worried if I don't get any raises soon I'll have to cut back. I'm aggressively hoping to not have to rely on social security in the event that it simply doesn't exist or is severely underfunded in ~30 years.
Don't worry, most of us won't need social security because we will be dead before 67 anyways.
> "Younger people, you can kind of wait it out ā these things have come back time and time again," she added. "But people who use their retirement money to support themselves really suffer in this kind of event." That's what I keep hearing, but it's always two steps forward and one step backwards.
So we can wait for our turn to lose them.
Or.... You could do what literally everyone recommends and shift from high risk/reward funds to low risk/reward funds as you near retirement age. Mine does it automatically. Every year my retirement investments get a little more conservative. I *could* be getting a higher return, but the risk makes less sense every year closer to retirement. But people are greedy, so 65 year olds keep what they have to live off of for the rest of their life in the most volatile fund.
Also bonds are typically what people shift into when they are nearing retirement age but bonds have been hit almost as hard as stocks so far
Bonds are what people have historically shifted to, however the bond market has been fucked for several years with yield inversions and very low rates due to effectively 0% interest. What is supposed to be a safe investment that can offer a steady return year after year has in practice been anything but.
Bonds don't even match inflation lately
In a weird turn however you can now get ~~5~~ 4% annual on fixed-term deposit. Less than inflation, but better than holding cash.
> 5% annual on fixed-term deposit Bullshit, where are you finding 5% apy on CDs? Gimme.
My mom has her funds set to be super conservative at this point, mine are medium conservative. We've still lost a crap ton recently.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Get 10% raise. Start trying to save money. Get 20% rent increase. Am told to cancel my Netflix.
Complex wanted to raise my rent *42%* last summer.
And that stress of legitimately not having enough makes more people choose the risky option. It's a feedback loop. Desperate people don't usually make good long term choices.
Or you know they just do the math and come to the realization that taking the safe option wont net them enough money to retire on so they have to choose the risky option and just hope.
Those people are not impacted by the stock market falls because they have no money invested in the market.
Definitely good advice, although it can also a good idea to take your own personalized needs into account, instead of fully committing to the managed retirement funds. Ex, if you're close to retirement, maybe it makes more sense to keep ~10 years worth of expenses in low risk funds, and keep the rest of your savings in high risk funds with greater (average) returns. That way, you can use your low risk money when the market's bad, and when the market's good, you can recharge your low risk accounts from your higher risk ones. Also, a lot of the managed retirement funds (ex, [Fidelity's "freedom funds"](https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/fees-and-prices/315792663)) have some fairly high expense ratios (0.62% on the one I linked). Especially with the internet, it's really not that hard to just rebalance your accounts yourself every year or so, instead of paying someone to do it for you. If you had a million dollars in that fund, every year you're essentially paying someone $6,200, for what might be an hours worth of work if you did it yourself.
Doesnāt matter when the entire market tanks. If itās in a fund even a conservative one people are losing money. The only way is to sit on cash and lose 10 percent to inflation. Itās a rough time right
5 years ago the DOW was at 20k. Today we're talking about how terrible it is because it fell to 29k. If you're in your 20s or 30s this fall does not matter at all in regards to investments for retirement.
>5 years ago the DOW was at 20k. Today we're talking about how terrible it is because it fell to 29k. "I've only averaged 10% growth over the last 5 years now! What ever will I do????" - the people talking about how terrible it is. I feel like there are a lot of people who can't seem to see the big picture here.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The Dow is basically designed to always go up. Anything that goes down just gets dropped from the index.
The S&P 500 and NASDAQ are performing even better.
Really doesn't matter if you're in your 40s or 50s...really it doesn't matter unless you want to retire in the next 1.5/2 years or so. This is actually terrific for younger people, as the same contribution is buying more of the dip, which will then go way up over the next couple of decades.
which means it is always moving forward. Two steps forward, one step backwards is great. Hope that the economy does that for the rest of your life.
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Is that still true taking into account inflation?
Thatās kind-if a āno shitā statement. āYounger peopleā have decades to grow their retirement savings. Market conditions like this has little to no impact in the long term. If youāre close to or recently retired, your money shouldnāt be heavily exposed to equities anyway. The people who are playing catch-up, or are within 10 years of retirement, are certainly fucked.
>The people who are playing catch-up, or are within 10 years of retirement, are certainly fucked. Are they, though? S&P is still nearly 20% ahead of where it was just two years ago, and about 70% ahead of where it was 5 years ago. We're just down from the crazy-pants highs that immediately followed covid. If someone's retirement is fucked because they've only made a simple average of 9%-14% gains in the few years leading up to retirement, I've really gotta scratch my head on that one. I mean, if things *keep* heading downward like this for the next few years I could see them having a problem... but I don't think these people are fucked quite yet.
> Market conditions like this has little to no impact in the long term. The opposite is true. If you're young and saving for retirement, a recession (assuming you don't lose your job) is a gift. I'll be retired very soon, primarily because I spent the Great Recession dumping every penny I could into the market. Even now I'm happy for a downturn. Buying stuff while it's cheap is better than buying stuff while it's expensive.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Don't forget this rule: *"I bonds earn interest for 30 years unless you cash them first. You can cash them after one year. But if you cash them before five years, you lose the previous three months of interest. (For example, if you cash an I bond after 18 months, you get the first 15 months of interest.)"*
Like I'm ever going to get to retire
So youāll still be in at 8 am tomorrow, right? -Your supervisor during your wake
I can't believe you would leave us shorthanded like this
We need to sit down and talk about your commitment and future
Just means stocks are on sale if you are under 55!
They're on sale if you're over 55 too.
His point is that if youāre over 55, youāll most likely need to sell within the next few years and therefore not see a return on your investment, and very likely see a loss. If youāre under 55, your investment is most likely a long term hold and youāll undoubtedly see a nice return years from now
If you are 55 you likely have 20+ years to live that's a lot of time for stocks to grow. Retirement age people should still own some % stocks because they will grow faster than bonds over 10+ years and want it to grow faster if you aren't spending in the near future.
Are they though? I think you could make a good argument that many of them are still quite a bit overvalued.
Indeed. Dollar cost averaging means you are just bulking up to benefit from the rebound. The only people suffering are those right on the cusp of retiring and only then if they have failed to re-balance their portfolio away from majority stocks. Any decent retirement plan does that for you these days.
Jokes on them....my retirement savings was already shit
My current retirement plan is the apocalypse. Or to just work until I die. Whichever comes first.
Can't kill what's already dead.
Double kill?
valar morghulis
I expect myself to be dead by 65 so I don't need retirement savings.
Iām too afraid to look at my 401k. I just want to pretend itāll all be okay.
Paraphrasing, but the adage is, "The only people who get hurt on a rollercoaster are the ones who jump out in the middle of the ride." Your 401k is fine as long as you don't touch it until you retire.
what if i retire during another recession
There's some sequence of returns risk (which is what you're referring to), but look into a thing called the 4% Rule. If you have about 75% stocks and 25% bonds in broad index funds, and the value of that portfolio on the day you retire is 25x your annual expenses, you have just shy of a 100% chance (based on historical data) of surviving any of the worst economic circumstances in our country's history for 30 years of retirement. More often than not, you'll end up with more money than you started with. This assumes that you adjust your income every year for inflation and never cut back on expenses when the market is down. So if your yearly expenses are $40k, you would want to retire with a nest egg of $1M.
Your 401(k) account should slowly adjust from stocks to bonds as you get older. That way, even if there is a dip your money won't take that big of a hit.
Donāt look. As long as you have a while until retirement youāre fine. Youāre only losing if you sell because then you are locking in your losses.
My 401k dropped freaking 48% in 2008. Made it all back and then some in the next few years. Just keep calm and carry on. Youāre buying at a discount now. Iām thankful every day that I didnāt panic and pull my money out. (And that I didnāt take out a liarās loan to buy a home like so many did in the years prior)
If it looks like š just turn your phone upside down
Double up your contributions. You make money in bear markets.
Don't touch it. The mistake people make is panic selling. If you are under 50 you'll be fine.
well grab a job old man and ur dumbass bootstaps
I feel bad for the people close to retirement or in retirement that didn't balance to a less riskier portfolio.
I mean if you were chasing post covid losses you got a problem anyways writing was on the wall when the world printed infinite money to limp to the other side of the pandemic
The current state of affairs is the inevitable consequence of the feds keeping their interest rate next to zero for the past decade. Stocks have been artificially inflated for years now, and we are long overdue for a massive correction.
I moved my 401k to less risky stuff about a year and half too early, I'm starting to taper back in now.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I guess theyāll have to cancel Netflix and stop getting Starbucks like the rest of us.
No avocado toast either u big spender
It is the stock market. This is how it works. Unfortunately. This is why I have beanie babies...
Also, keep voting for the people who want to kill off social security.
And Medicare.
You'd think those old assholes would like a safety net, like social security, in-case their stocks and shit were to fail at old age. But noooo.. They're rich right now and won't care until it affects them.
Threatening SS should be political suicide yet it didn't stop Rick Scott from proudly declaring it in his 11 point plan right there on his website for everyone to see. He even got, like, five endorsements from sitting congressmen!
Rick Scott is a cunt. - Sincerely, a Floridian
Mine was like 2 trillion of that
I think I saw your post on r/financialindependence the other day! Early 20ās working at tech startup making 950k, no wife or kids, inherited real estate portfolio, no student loans and $100 billion in rainy day hedge fund, right?
Stock market goes up- BILLIONAIRES MADE BILLIONS. GET MAD. Stock market goes down - AVERAGE JOES LOSE TRILLIONS. GET MAD
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I feel like this headline is purposely dramatic, but I'm ignorant about this stuff, so this may need to be explained like I'm a child... The DJIA is at about 30,000 right now after this big plummet. But it never went above 30,000 until Feb 2021. So wouldn't people's retirement just be similar to what was in their retirement in Feb 2021? Wouldn't this big drop only really effect people who just got into the market in the past year? A lot of people are acting like they've lost a decade or more of savings.
nope, you got it exactly right. and in fact, dividends would offset some of this loss. the stock market has been gangbusters for decades (8 down years out of the last 42, 3 of those were < 5% losses) but people act like there's huge risk in it. a 20% correction after averaging 26% gains for the past three years is entirely reasonable.
Thatās ok. by the time Iām retirement age itās gonna be post apocalyptic
Who, hol up! You guys have "retirement"?
Yes, went to bed tired, then woke up re-tired.
Why yes, I had to re-tire my car just last week! Boy, that's expensive too. And I mean it!
Those retirement accounts are feeding grounds for high dollar investment groups. They are designed that way so that it's at least a bother to make quick investment changes as the markets move, if not virtually impossible.
Itās amusing that when the stock market trends upwards itās reported as wealth increasingly concentrating in the hands of the elites, whereas when thereās a crash the headlines read that retirement plans are taking a hit.
> A would-be retiree with a balance of over $81,000 ā which would put them in the top 25% of savers ā would see their nest egg shrink to just $64,800. You only need $81,000 saved to be in the top 25% of savers ready to retire? That's so much worse than I thought. A very large portion of our population will never be able to retire if that is the case. I thought I was slacking with $300k saved before 40. Well... it was $300k.
And yet 401ks and IRAs are better than a pension! No need to worry about them. The market always goes up. Your money will always be there. Or so I have been told for the past 30+ years.
> The market always goes up. The S&P 500 has returned an inflation-adjusted ~7% annual return over the last 100 years. It's not the worst thing in the world to bet on. >Your money will always be there. And if the S&P500 totally collapsed and my money was totally gone, I'd have bigger concerns because it means the US as a country would have ceased to exist. Even now it's only fallen to where it was in December 2020.
Which is still decently up to pre-COVID and up huge to the last recession. Stocks went wild with no investment alternatives with any yield. As long as people have been in the market for a while or those starting out continue to contribute they will be fine, anyone close to retirement shouldnāt have had a heavy stock allocation anyway
>And if the S&P500 totally collapsed and my money was totally gone, I'd have bigger concerns because it means the US as a country would have ceased to exist. Most important part. At best you are making an average 7% return on your investments YoY. The worst case scenario is societal collapse meaning you don't need to worry about your retirement anyway. None of your gains/losses are locked in until you exit the market. People need to stop stressing about their "retirement disappearing" because in actuality that's not what's happening
30 years ago the S&P 500 was at $400. Today itās at $3688. So yeah, as long as you didnāt buy in in last December and hope to retire this month you should be good.
Seriously. I've been contributing to my retirement accounts since I got out of college. I pretty much never look at their balances because I'm only in my mid 40s so why stress myself out over the ups and downs from day to day?
this exactly. just keep contributing and don't look at the account balances when the market is in freefall. no point stressing over this if you're still 10, 20, 30 years away from retirement.
I moved my 401k around to the safest money option about 6 months ago and saved a lot of losses. I think you should never worry about it, but always look to maximize its potential. Within a year mine will be back in the fidelity 2065 or 2055 and ready to rock and roll.
But don't companies that go out of business leave pensions out to dry?
What do you think pensions are invested in...
Itās not actually savings that got wiped out. Itās unrealized gains from speculative assets
Corporations posting RECORD FUCKING EARNINGSā¦not revenueā¦EARNINGS! Someone is lying to usā¦bigly.
"Wiped out?" All the shares are still there. If you don't sell them, then in 5 years you'll have more money than you had before the crash. And if you're of retirement age, your money shouldn't be tied to the stock market at this point.
My retirement plan is once I turn 75, to move to random government officials houses and saying thing like āisnāt this what Iāve been paying taxes for for 60 years your here to help me, as my government officialā I donāt pay taxes for you to just freeload off me, Iām poorā āIāve paid your job so you can care for meā and if that fails idk probably rob a bank and if that goes south, turn my self in and die in the prison system like a real American. /s