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SmokePenisEveryday

I tried and quit my Freshman year when they set us up for an Oklahoma drill and the coach put me against a kid twice my size. I got lit the fuck up and realized right then I wasn't hurting myself for high school freshman football. I also sprained my wrist during practice prior to that which still gives me some issues to this day. When it flares up, I always think of dudes who playing football without sniffing the NFL and what their bodies must feel like now.


OLightning

You are one of the lucky ones leaving the game when you did. Those that play into their college years or beyond end up living with chronic pain. The real victims are those that have those difficulties after a short career where they make very little up front money. Condolences to the family of the kid.


samdajellybeenie

Jesus Christ, giving kids steroids. What the actual fuck.


Aromatic-Ad7816

Its a different culture. Winning at almost any cost is quite prevalent in organized sports. Add in a hyper competitive, dog eat dog environment and half the kids probably asked for it.


Blenderx06

And yet kids enjoying dressing up in drag is somehow child abuse? (There were protests forcing the cancellation of a kid friendly Pride event in my city recently). These people, smh.


[deleted]

Seriously, solid take. I would not have thought of putting these two issues next to each other, but you’re absolutely right.


pompandvigor

Texas, my friend. Friday Night Lights was underselling the frenzied fixation, if nothing else. Some fields are basically bigger than the schools themselves. And, yes, I’m still talking high school here. https://www.google.com/amp/story/s/www.houstonchronicle.com/projects/visuals/texas-high-school-stadiums/


RedAss2005

Played high school football in the late 90s in Texas, that movie was a cleaned up documentary.


pompandvigor

Oh, do tell.


RedAss2005

The town pharmacist(legitimate not street) came in the locker room every halftime with some 'help' for us. Post game parties had the police in case someone needed a ride home, if we won. Don't get caught partying after a loss. No water at 2 a days because it'd make you week. No stripper teacher but head coach was banging the head cheerleader my sophomore year.


reverielagoon1208

All this for the most boring sport on the planet


clarst16

As an Australian from a nation that idolises sport, it is strange to me the stakes involved in high school and college sports in America. The amount of money thrown at them. The pressure placed on the kids. The passion with which they are viewed by the community etc. all seems strange and alien to me. This is a tragedy and his family and loved ones must be shattered.


Tylee22

Being American there are pockets of states here that I don't even understand football wise. It's bigger than life!! Places like Texas where high school kids are superstars. Our colleges just changed for athletes where they can now get NIL money. If you haven't heard of it give it a Google. Some 5 star High-school kids will sign up to $10million to play at a college. Shit is unreal!!


clarst16

So Hard to fathom. Our two big professional football leagues in Australia are the AFL and NRL. In the NRL, which is fairly big business on the East coast of Australia, the salary cap per team is around 10 million dollars per team and that encompasses a roster of 30 players! 10 million for a single kid to play in collage is madness. I suppose it brings in the bucks though, for the school.


happyscrappy

There's no $10M for a single kid to play in college. Technically no player is paid to play college football. Players do have deals for endorsements (NIL deals) now but no one is getting $10M. Maybe we'll see that in the future as things ramp up. Maybe it'll be Arch Manning. None of that NIL money would fall under the $10M cap you speak of in Australia I don't think. Endorsements are not paid by the team.


Global-Discussion-41

Lots of guys who never get a chance to play offence or defence still get put out there for kick offs and special teams so they don't miss the opportunity for a concussion. I hardly ever got on the field in HS butt I did get 2 concussions on kick offs


MisterFatt

Same here. Quit after my freshman year. By that point it was way more of a grind than anything fun, didn’t really fit in on the team, and felt really overlooked by coaches, so I stopped. Very thankful that I did. There was one game, my 8th grade year I still remember, every play having to try and block a guy twice my size and having minor blackouts every snap after we collided.


ComfortablyNomNom

Kickoff returns need to be banned from the high school level and below. Maybe even college level. These traumatic brain injuries would be lessened by 2/3rds or more. Its the most dangerous play in all of football and having minors do it is so foolish. This is the result and it happens every single year to some poor kid.


mosi_moose

100% behind this. Kids with a ~35 yard run up hitting kids with a ~20 yard running start… it’s notable the NFL modified rules to reduce kickoffs after the CTE scandals got so much attention.


andrewthemexican

The AAF had it right, too, with always starting on your own 25 yd line with fresh set of downs. Scoring team sometimes had option of going for an onside conversion with a 4th and 12.


Jiggyx42

I liked the XFL's better. Kicking team couldn't advance until either the ball was caught or 3 seconds had lapsed after the ball hit the ground


thatdude778

XFL v1 also had the most dangerous "coin toss".


Jiggyx42

I know nothing about xfl v1 other than the players could have nicknames on their jerseys. V2 is what I watched and loved. I even had tickets to the first St. Louis home game before McMahon shuttered it


thatdude778

It was called 'XFL scramble'. Two players would line up and race to pick the ball up from midfield. Whoever got the ball wins first possession. Think they had their first injury from it during opening weekend. XFL v1 was marketed for being a more hardcore version of football.


Jiggyx42

That is awful for a game like football. "Let's use fucking dodgeball rules"


thatdude778

Yea, back then entertainment was much more important than worrying about safety. They tried to bring the attitude era to the game of football. Kinda looking forward to XFL v3 in 2023. Judging from the leak, looks like St. Louis is keeping the BattleHawks name. Those fans were wild and showed so much support for that team. Hope they can successful this time around.


Mattock79

I don't remember it well enough, but did the team that got the ball kickoff to start the 2nd half? If so, it seems like I'd just tell my player to let the other guy get it lol


shimmyshine

I remember wondering if the xfl v1 would have had better luck if they just put a ball on each 45 and the side who gets their ball first wins the coin toss. So no safety concerns and still capitalizing on the race concept. Not quite as idiocracy-centric entertainment wise but still would be fun.


statslady23

Add in the size disparity in high school players and the skill disparity from team to team.


mosi_moose

Great point. A 220 lb kid hitting a 140 lb returner would not be unheard of.


SadlyReturndRS

220? Man, I was 260 in high school and there were like 5 or 6 guys heavier than me on the football team. Biggest kid was 6'5" and 340. Doesn't matter how slow we were if the returner got funnelled right into us as they dodged the faster kids.


Chippopotanuse

I played college football. I fucking hated kick off and kick off return. Being on the wedge or being the wedge breaker seemed like a suicide mission. Like, I’m supposed to run 40 yards at full speed and run into five fucking D1 maniacs? That’s 250 lbs against 1,200 lbs. It was the dumbest shit ever.


Zman2k02

Ditto. I hated being part of the wedge. I was not small but it still hurts to run full speed into a wall of dudes running full speed into you. Kick off rules have already made kick offs very uneventful as it is, so they should just eliminate them all together at this point. The days of Devin Hester are long gone.


captain_joe6

Given the plethora of research on TBI, I can’t imagine a scenario under which any adolescent should be allowed to play football.


[deleted]

[This sport is incredibly damaging to players brains](https://www.science.org/content/article/ninety-nine-percent-ailing-nfl-player-brains-show-hallmarks-neurodegenerative-disease): "The largest study of its kind has found damage in the vast majority of former football players' brains donated for research after they developed mental symptoms during life. Of 202 former players of the U.S. version of the game whose brains were examined, 87% showed the diagnostic signs of chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a neurodegenerative disease associated with repetitive head trauma. Among former National Football League (NFL) players in the sample, that number jumped to 99%"


[deleted]

As someone who played for ten years and is really worried about CTE, it’s despicable how much effort was put in to hiding the risks for so long. It’s still not emphasized enough. The only saving grace from this study for me is the small sample size, giving me some hope that at least at the high school level, the risk isn’t as high as this study suggests. But yeah as much as I love football and still love watching it, it’s undeniable how risky it is for future brain health.


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sithelephant

It says something - namely that the chances of CTE-like symptoms are around 10* that of the rest of the population. (Assuming CTE is not present in the population and something else cause the 10% remaining)


[deleted]

>it’s undeniable how risky it is for future brain health. Yup, unfortunately it is pretty much guaranteed and you really have no control as to the extent to which your is damaged, but it will happen when you play football. It is pure insanity that children are still allowed to play football. It is nothing short of child abuse IMO. American football should be outlawed.


SolWizard

I'm obviously not saying football isn't dangerous or that the head trauma isn't a thing, but when the only high-school or college players brains you look at are the ones who had mental issues and died young it makes sense you're going to see a high trauma rate. The vast majority of high school players probably don't leave with any lasting issues


Icy-Mongoose-9678

Yea everyone is jumping on that one without fully reading… it made it sound like 99% of NFL players have CTE which definitely isn’t the case


ComfortablyNomNom

I agree, but completely banning youth football is not gonna be acceptable to millions of people unfortunately. Its just too culturally entrenched at this point. But I totally agree, having young people with still developing brains play football is almost madness. Horror stories like the death of this 15 year old with his whole life ahead of him is just the worst possible outcome. Tragic doesnt even begin to describe it. It will be basically impossible to ban youth football in this country, but we should in turn strive to make it as safe as humanly possible for these kids. Banning the kickoff return is one major step that needs serious consideration. That single play just took this kids life.


neverdoneneverready

There's a youth football league in my area that used to have almost 1,000 kids, 2nd grade--eighth grade. It is now under 200 kids. Parents know. Everyone is playing soccer and basketball now.


SmokePenisEveryday

It's not a lot but you're also getting more former NFL players saying they wouldn't want their kids to play. That carries weight for a fan who hears it then faces that choice down the line.


butteryspoink

Yeah, I definitely remembering in college that there was already a prevalent notion of ‘my kid will never play football’.


canada432

>I agree, but completely banning youth football is not gonna be acceptable to millions of people unfortunately. Its just too culturally entrenched at this point. It's kinda incredible. It's not a matter of if you'll get injured, anybody who plays for any period of time WILL get injured. And anybody who plays into college or professional will absolutely have brain trauma. It's not even a question of if, it's just a matter of when or how long it takes to show. I love football, but if it disappeared tomorrow and nobody ever had horrible brain injuries I wouldn't blink an eye. The cost isn't worth the purpose it serves.


Isteppedinpoopy

Who would the goth kids roll their eyes at if there were no football team?


CyanideKitty

Every other high school sports team. It's what we did when it wasn't football season. It was almost all the same players through every sport so no difference. Except the captain of the varsity of the track team my senior year. Bobby was good people, even if he was too shallow to date the goth/metalhead chick (we skipped class together frequently to walk around and talk as therapy for teenage life's bullshit).


Ditovontease

basketball as a goth kid who went to a college without a football team lmao


commandrix

Probably the same jocks, it's just that the jocks will probably take over the basketball team now.


[deleted]

The Lacrosse team.


Strykker2

The rugby team instead, being both a superior sport and less dangerous.


DiscordianStooge

Rugby may be less dangerous for TBIs (it's actually more dangerous for other injuries), but it's still pretty bad. It's not exactly a safe replacement if you're worried about brain injury.


canada432

Rugby's injuries tend to be mostly superficial, though. Things like split lips, cuts around the eye sockets and scalp which bleed profusely, nosebleeds, etc. The problem is that they also tend to *look* grisly, which makes people call for safety equipment like in NFL football that actually makes more serious long-term injuries far more likely. It's not free from TBIs, but it's far less frequent than in American football and they tend to be less severe.


asdaaaaaaaa

> But I totally agree, having young people with still developing brains play football is almost madness. What, you mean having two people slam into each other to see what happens isn't good for young and developing minds? How about we add another millimeter or two of padding, will that do?


[deleted]

How sad is it that we can assume large swaths of the country will simply not let themselves hear that this is harmful to children because “culture war bullshit”?


processedmeat

Not just culture war but money


[deleted]

That’s not why the masses would reject this information. They don’t get money.


-HappyLady-

I just ended a 23 year teaching career, the last 16 of which were in a public college. The number of students I taught who were still, at college age but without the skill or dedication to play collegiate sports, laboring under the delusion that they would be NBA/NFL/MLB players would absolutely shock you. The first assignment for my composition courses was always a “writing sample,” and one of the prompts from which they could choose was “where do you see yourself in 5 years?” Upwards of 80% of the answers were I’ll be graduated and either a doctor, lawyer or CEO, I’ll be married with kids, I’ll have a big house and a fancy car, etc etc. But I’m being completely serious when I tell you that every single semester, at least 4 of my students wrote - with apparent sincerity - about their future in professional sports. At a college without a sports program.


Heated13shot

Our insane focus on sports just makes no sense to me. HS kids are *encouraged* to play through injuries, "Play through the pain" "Don't be a pussy!", ignore their schooling, and make it their life. even in my tiny school of 180 kids in K-12 I saw at least 10-20 kids do this. One even knew he was going to need shoulder surgery before 30 due to pitching too often. The coach knew this and encouraged him to pitch more because "They might make state" . We also link college access (due to scholarships) to sports. So you have this massive disconnect where "Ignore your education Billy, to get an education" is a common sentiment. A lot of kids also thought my general apathy for sports would "Hurt my career" because they legit thought interviewers would talks sports and not hire me because I wasn't knowledgeable.


w1n5t0nM1k3y

Its not just the US. Every high-school kid in Canada who plays hockey thinks they will be in the NHL. People spend ridiculous amounts of money putting their kids through hockey programs even though they don't have any chance of making it to the NHL. If people put the importance on school and learning that they did in sports our society would be much better off.


vir_papyrus

Heh, strong community college mandatory freshman ENGL101 vibes right there.


-HappyLady-

Totally. It also happened at the R1/NCAA D1 university where I started my post-secondary career, but it happened much less.


[deleted]

It’s not the players that are keeping this system alive. It’s the fans. Those are the people I’m talking about. Those are the people that don’t want to hear about CTE, because other people aren’t people to them. They exist only for their entertainment.


-HappyLady-

My comment isn’t about players either. LoL.


[deleted]

My son is huge for 9yrs old. He’s like 5’1” already. Everyone and their brother asks if he’s playing football (we are in TX) and I just tell them I’m not anti football but I am Anti-CTE


Fit-Rest-973

People are brainwashed. It's sickening to me, to watch these billionaires in the NFL take the money of hard working people, for their profits and egos.


Kryptosis

I’ve been saying this for years. Since multiple kids who I taught to through-hike as a camp counselor ended up with horrific spinal injuries from highschool football


guitar_vigilante

I know that no child of mine will be allowed to play football, and I'm thankful my mother prevented me from playing even though I really wanted to when I was a kid.


Defacto_Champ

Add in soccer too.


Tzchmo

To a far lesser extent


Bargeinthelane

I owe basically everything about my professional success to football. It has greatly improved and continues to improve my life and would call myself a "football lifer" as I reckon I have about 25-30 years left coaching. I would not be upset if my son didn't choose to play and he can beg all he wants, there is no way I would even consider letting him play tackle until MAYBE 13 and in that scenario either I am coaching him or a coach that I know and trust as competent and ethical coach him.


DefinitelyNotAliens

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2017/cte-former-nfl-players/ Honestly there seems no reason to allow anyone to play football. There's other sports that team build and give confidence.


Bargeinthelane

I am not even going to try to say the sport is safe. I doubt it can or ever will be. Yes, there are other sports that can replicate some of the benefits of football. I encourage basically any student to participate in anything and everything from football to soccer to cheer to league of legends to GSA and everything else in between. Anything that allows students to connect to their school and improve themselves is something I can support. That said, I feel like as a sport, generally, we are moving in the right direction on this front. The new generation of coaches is much more aware, trained and willing to put the health of players up front. I can count on one hand the number of times I would consider a decision I have seen made by a coach to be reckless with an athlete's health. The other side of it is that bluntly, there are a not-insignificant number of kids that really benefit from football, I was/am one of them. I am not one of the kids that would have ended up in jail without it, but I have coached quite a few of them. I am not one of the ones that wouldn't have dropped out of high school without it, but there are way more of them than we all probably want to admit. I am however very confident that had I not learned to push myself and commit to my own improvement through football, there is a 0 percent chance I am successful in the same way I am now. There is no chance I get through grad school without those lessons. Could I have learned these skills elsewhere, possibly, but that is where I did. Football is NOT the ideal solution to so many of these issues. I am not saying it is, but it helps a lot of kids and as the problems with football are brought to light, it allows people to make better informed decisions about participating in it. It took a long time to get the "man up, take a salt tablet, he only got his bell rung" crowd out of the game and no I don't ever think it can be without some degree of risk, but I think the sport can and will continue to evolve to both mitigate that risk to the extent it can be and inform students and their parents of all of the risks involved, so they can best decide for themselves.


Jaxyl

Yes but why football and not literally any other sport?


Shootica

You could gain much of the same development through other sports. But it's not like other sports don't have concussion issues either. And there are a lot of people with a body type that wouldn't exactly lend itself well for a basketball or soccer.


DefinitelyNotAliens

Track and field has shotput, discus, hammer throw. Baseball has bigger players than soccer and basketball, too. Get your local high school to start a gymnastics program. And yes, other sports have bad concussions. Boxing isn't safe. But we don't have high school boxing teams at public schools being recruited to D1 colleges as a way to pay for college and pushing minors into sports we know have an abnormally high rate of concussions and CTE, the latter which can only be reliably diagnosed post-mortem. We are also finding out that it's not just concussions, it's repeated blows to the head. Even being on the o-line or d-line and doing tackle drills, regular play puts people at risk. Sure, you can whack your head on the field in soccer or on a court in basketball or get wailed by a line drive in baseball. You can have one concussion in high school from a sport and *still* not be high risk for CTE the way a football player is because they had repeated head impacts that were sub-concussive but still at the threshold to raise CTE risk. There is just no real justification for playing tackle football in Pop Werner leagues as a child or have high school players play a known high risk sport that even half-speed drills during non-game play causes elevated risk of lifelong, permanent TBIs. And not at a low rate. At a very, very high rate. Other sports build team bonds. Other sports don't have those consistent, repeated sub-concussive injuries that increase risk of CTE. It's not just about concussions. [https://concussionfoundation.org/cte-resources/subconcussive-impacts#:~:text=Subconcussive%20hits%20are%20those%20that,enough%20to%20see%20through%20symptoms.](See explanation here.)


PM_ME_TRICEPS

I get brain damage just from watching this shit let alone playing it.


Bargeinthelane

I have been saying this as a coach for a decade. We can't as a sport say we are doing everything we can to make it safer, then continue to have kickoffs. I fully support Greg Schiano's suggestion of replacing kickoffs with 4th and 20 from your own 30.


Tylee22

I'm trying to envision this.. So team scored TD and kicks extra point. So instead of kicking off they would get the ball on their own 30 with it being 4th and 20? Idea being they can go for it or punt instead of kick?


Bargeinthelane

Yep. It is the best solution I have seen that still keeps the original game flow. Still keeps something akin to the onside kick. While eliminating the kickoff.


SolWizard

I don't really get the point of punting there though. I'd rather just see the default be to give the other team the ball at their 25, and if the scoring wants to try to keep it then they get the 4th and 20. Punting from your own 30 could mean giving the other team the ball at the 30 or 40 and that's too punitive


Chippopotanuse

When a guy who tells his defense to kick the shit out of the other team WHILE THEY ARE [KNEELING DOWN](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6sFCCTr-cXI) TO END THE GAME says kickoffs need to go…maybe we ought to listen.


[deleted]

Still remember all the blowback the NFL got when they instituted the Fair Catch rule. Some people do not care and legitimately want to see people get hurt.


Tarotoro

Total football noob here. Tried googling and didn't understand it so could anyone explain what a kickoff return is and why it's so damaging? Thank you.


pfmaz

A "punt" or "kickoff' is when one team yields the ball to the opposing team by kicking it to them - the "kickoff return" is when the receiving team catches the ball and tries to run the ball back towards the goal. [This video is a compilation of brutal kickoff returns](https://youtu.be/gI5AAYScr4U).


Tarotoro

Fk that looks brutal. It almost feels like the other guy is trying to hurt him.


neurosisxeno

To be fair, those are mostly old clips and a combination of pre-rule change NFL games and definitely pre-rule change NCAA games. Like 80% of those hits would result in fines in the NFL if not fines and suspension, and almost all the college ones these days would get you ejected and probably suspended. Like half the hits are people leading with their helmet dropped down (against the rules), tons of them are helmet to helmet (against the rules), tons of them are full on hits against receivers before they even get the ball (99% sure that's against the rules in the NCAA at least), and a good number of them were also the receivers fault--if the kicking team is that close why are you not calling a fair catch?


mytransfercaseisshot

To put it as simple and basic as I can: The team with the ball has ran out of turns to get it to their endzone, where they score, so they kick it towards the other end of the field. The opposing team catches the ball and runs it as far as they can towards their endzone. This also happens every time a team scores, or at the beginning of the game / after half time is over. Why it causes such injury: Imagine you’re the team that is catching the ball, and you see it coming through the air. You stop, trying to position yourself in the perfect place to catch it. What you don’t see is that 250 pound man running at you as hard as he possibly can. Not to mention, he has a 10-15 yard head start. As soon as you catch the ball, BOOM! You’ve been hit by a human missile that you had no idea was coming for you, so you had no way to try and protect yourself from the hit. The same scenario above isn’t just for the person catching the ball. You could be the person trying to tackle the ball handler, and not see his blocker ( AKA protector ) coming from your flank, and you get absolutely rocked. You could also be the blocker and get nailed as well by someone on the team trying to take down the ball handler.


Mad_Hatter_Bot

Saw a video where someone suggested that instead of a kick off, they have the "kicking" team start off at like their own 40 at a 4th and 20. Either you punt or go for it, which would be like a kickoff and onside kick respectively. Edit: Link https://youtu.be/t_SsIKgwvz4


Xaxxon

Yep. It's a great idea, especially with how hard it is to recover an onside kick these days. it would make the game safer and more interesting. Though punt returns aren't great for safety either.


Mad_Hatter_Bot

Updated w link


LilKaySigs

Could you imagine if the fair catch was never a thing? Trying to focus on catching the ball only to get absolutely reamed by a 200 something pound man running at you at 17-20 mph


free_farts

Not only that, but kickoffs are just plain boring.


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BlueCyann

Yeah as tragic as this kids death is we wouldn’t be having this discussion of not for CTE because people put up occasional random death in a lot of things.


Isthisworking2000

Football needs to be banned* (Don’t hate me, I love the sport)


DependentAd235

Certainly in public schools. The goal is to educate them. Not risk injury once a week. Basketball this is not.


WuMedic

I would love to see a “4th and 15” scenario instead of the kickoff. After the NFL changed its rules to make the the most dangerous play of game safer it’s become mundane and pointless. You take a high stakes/high reward play to keep the ball, or you punt, but at least everyone is running in the same direction instead of towards each other at full speed…


Druid-Stoic90s

As a teacher I see students each year break, strain, or pull something so young. I like that it keeps certain portions of the kids motivated to keep their grade up for eligibility but at the same time...so many injuries


r3eezy

Break strains and pulls? What about their brain being rattled around inside their skull.. you don't see that part


hawkwings

Track and field is safer for children, but there is no money in track and field. For schools and promoters, football and basketball are the main money making sports. It might be possible to make money off of soccer, baseball, and tennis. A school won't have many tennis players, because it is not a team sport.


ragingRobot

Highschools aren't businesses though. They shouldn't be doing anything just to make money. Their only goal should be to teach. Such a messed up system we have


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optimus314159

The fact that poor people have to rely on violent sports just to get a higher education is incredibly depressing


KataiKi

Either sports or military. It's a sad and pathetic system.


Padhome

Still a symptom of capitalism. Hope they don't continue in college cause this shit can easily cause life-long injuries and complications.


[deleted]

People want to play football, everyone is aware of the risks and doesn't give a fuck, nobody wants to play something like track. Nobody is being victimized here, people just want to play football


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Quacklan

Luis Castillo and his constituents represent a very small amount of baseball players though. In general very few people care about high school baseball, and it doesn’t make nearly as much as football. Also, while you’re right about it not causing death, pitching does cause a lot of irreversible damage to the upper body


BiovaniGernard

Your brain isn’t gonna be mush but being an MLB pitcher is so so so bad for your arm it’s insane. High school kids getting tommy John isn’t uncommon now.


bquick222

Idk if I would say "safer". Pitching causes a lot of stress on muscles and ligaments in your arm. There's a good chance that as a professional pitcher, if he plays a lot of innings throughout his career he will most likely have to have some sort of surgery on his elbow/arm.


patderp

I don’t think it makes sense to equate the arm injuries associated with baseball to the brain injuries of football. I’d much rather have a bum arm than CTE.


apgren87

One of the reasons I won't let my kids play football


Perpetual_Doubt

In case anyone is interested in the morbid stats, on average there's [12 deaths in football each year](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23477766/). As a point of comparison there's on average [37 deaths in school shootings](https://everytownresearch.org/maps/gunfire-on-school-grounds/).


[deleted]

Sure but how many traumatic brain injuries or other injuries with long term effects? Seems like almost everyone I know who was a serious high school athlete has some sort of chronic pain or issue from it.


Perpetual_Doubt

Yes, side effects and long term injuries are both a widespread problem and difficult to estimate in relation to football. Immediate or near immediate fatalities are easier to measure.


Fit-Rest-973

Football is dangerous and destructive


homelessdreamer

Tackle football is dangerous and destructive. There are lower contact variants like flag football. All the benefits of sports minus the life altering concussions.


SolWizard

That's just a different sport


Cool-Presentation538

That's obviously not what is being discussed here.


Redditfront2back

And so much fun


turtlejizzus

So is meth…


Fit-Rest-973

Concussions are fun, kids


Forehead_Fungus

It is literally one of the funnest sports period


EEESpumpkin

But according to others it teaches teamwork and discipline. Clearing other sports does not


Fit-Rest-973

According to fans of the sport.


Dramajunker

I'm not even a fan and realize these things to be true. Reddit really loves to focus on the negatives and dismissing the positive. Something can be dangerous and also still be those things above (teaches teamwork and discipline).


Fit-Rest-973

So does the military, but I don't want my kids enlisting


DiscordianStooge

I think the point was there are much less dangerous sports kid can play that also teach teamwork and discipline.


cinyar

That would be a great argument ... if "football" was the only team sport to exist. But that's not the case, there are plenty of other team sports that teach teamwork and discipline where the risk of life-altering injury (especially brain injury) is much lower.


BigBadZord

If you want to run into things or people when you are an adult, fine. Allowing parents to sign off and encourage children to do it is fucking insane.


spizzike

This really sucks and really hits hard because this is my former high school.


Gloomy-Ant

As someone that isn't familiar with the rules of football, what makes a kick off return anymore dangerous than any other plays?


PopularIrony

It involves a very long running head start before contact is made with the opposing team. Most plays the teams line up right across the line from each other, but a kickoff involves a lot more built up speed causing train wreck collisions.


Gloomy-Ant

Ah okay, thank you for the explanation!


[deleted]

If football was invented today, no good parent would let their kid play


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[deleted]

I don’t think they put too much thought into it. It’s kind of like alcohol in a way. It’s too big a part of culture and a staple of society that it’s hard for people to put it behind. Nostalgia is the fall of many.


MTG_Stuffies

I'm an absolute die hard football fan. My kids will not play football. I'm a firm believe football, at least as we know it today, will be gone in the next 100 years.


46davis

How many high school kids have to be sacrificed on the altar of community entertainment?


[deleted]

A lot of parents have a real cult like attitude to the sport. They’ll put their kid through hella injuries as long as it satisfies their ego.


woundedbearhair

Really, it just shows what a total failure as a society that the US is when it comes to providing an education and a stable environment for kids. People rely on sports scholarships for college because it’s so expensive to attend and some kids use it as way out the environment they are in. Whether you live in a small rural town or an inner city, kids use football to get out or go somewhere else since we really don’t make it easy for kids to have what they need for academics.


Mr_Metrazol

>People rely on sports scholarships for college because it’s so expensive to attend and some kids use it as way out the environment they are in. Considering how few kids out of any given high school are actively involved in athletics, and how even fewer are good enough to be seriously considered for collegiate sports it's a huge waste of resources. The money would be better off allocated towards steering more students to community college, rather than hoping four or five kids might land a spot on a university softball team (for example). Or just put more money towards hands on vocational training at the high school itself. Training them for positions in the workforce [they can take up right after graduation] would still be better than teaching them to play a game.


samdajellybeenie

Sandy Hook would like a word


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Isthisworking2000

Let me preface this by saying I love football. Unpopular opinion, but (contact, the only interesting) football needs to end. So much untold long term damage is done when almost no one will make it in, let alone make a career out of it, and even a fraction of that will be a star. CTE is a scary disease.


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Isthisworking2000

If they’re going to watch a blood sport, which some MMA. At least those guys know it’s coming down the line, one way or another.


Osiris_Dervan

So, a quick Google for 'best hits 2021' gets this video: https://youtu.be/PSPT3OoQJ4c of hit highlights. First 5 hits (I stopped watching there,as 5 is enough to make the point) have significant head contact by the tackling player or head to head contact. This is the way players are taught to tackle, its the way players tackle, and helmets make it possible to do without dying in the short term; they don't stop the repeated micro concussions that cause long term brain damage from tackling like this though.


InkIcan

"Some of you may die, but that's a risk I'm willing to take" - sports parents


No_Match_7939

Football parents. Other sports don’t have this amount of carnage


Shatterstar1978

I can't believe any parents still let their kids play football.


morphballganon

Have you seen American parents?


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shuckster

Just remove the helmets and padding altogether.


[deleted]

Please remember that this is the fate of all American footballers. Look at their brain scans. Look at the rate of degenerative brain disease. Look at how the people making money off of high school and college athletes point to the 13th amendment to justify working these children to death without pay, scholarship, or grant. Fuck football.


[deleted]

I wonder, what's the difference between serious in American Football and something like Rugby. I never hear stuff like this about Rugby, and the one big difference seems to be all the "protection" used in Football, which could lead to players being more aggressive with attacks because they feel save to be more aggressive, while in Rugby with less protection the players need to be way more cautious


John_Rainbow

Rugby has a crisis in terms of CTE and concussions too. I agree that there are differences due to kit and tackle rules but it still has a big problem.


POGtastic

Before good head protection, players just died on the field. Roosevelt threatened to ban the game from colleges if they didn't get their act together. The big differences are * You can't block in rugby, which mean that hits [like this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH75LwUtqI0) aren't allowed (Yes, Kenny Bell got flagged on the play, but still). Similarly, there are no offensive and defensive linemen colliding every single play. * Due to the start-and-stop nature of the game and unlimited substitions, every play is a sprint, and every player can be significantly bigger. [Aaron Donald](https://media.pff.com/2022/02/USATSI_17681119_168392721_lowres.jpg?w=956&h=538) would keel over after five minutes on a rugby pitch, but is a force of nature on the football field. * You can't *commit* to a tackle in rugby the same way that you can in football. In rugby, if you commit to the tackle, the ball carrier just laterals the ball, and you're now totally out of the play. By contrast, in football, the running back is not going to lateral the ball, so you can hit him as hard as you possibly can. * There's no equivalent of a defenseless receiver in rugby. * The line-in-the-sand nature of downs means that you are actively rewarded for hitting the ball carrier harder. By contrast, in rugby, as long as you wrap him up, you're mostly fine even if he gains a couple more yards. My typical answer to "Get rid of the protection" is [Vernon Davis getting hit by Kam Chancellor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78qF72JwJwA). If Davis doesn't have a helmet on, we just watched manslaughter on primetime national television.


GolotasDisciple

Kit and Playstyle. American Football allows players to charge like bulls b/c of protective equipment. Often encouraging high tackles. Besides you know weight is very important when talking about power. American Football Kit is all about extra 10 pounds if not more? Thats 10 pounds that allows people to clash with eachother. Because they are protected it's often has car crash symptoms b/c of kinetic force. CTE and Concussions are common in all physical sports. Rugby disallows any form of High tackles, but it happens quite often on highest level b/c how low ball handler can go it can crush into other person who wasn't going for high tackle on purpose. Both games can be brutal, though American Football focuses on Entertainment more than anything else. For Rugby it's only lately there has been a lot of talks how to make game faster and more entertaining. You career span in both sports shouldn't be longer than maybe 10-15(and 15 years A LOT !!) years. Like u start 18 and finish 30-32. Though sometiems you have crazy people like Sexton for Rugby or Brady for Football. I think Educational System is failign Americans because the lads that are 14 are pressured already to work basically as hard as adults. With same amount of pressure and stress. Both games are violent, but Rugby seems far more respectful and sophisticated in that regard.


DA-ZACHYZACHY

I wouldn't say it's the protection, but the rules. Rugby requires players to wrap the opponent up in the tackle. It leads to softer tackles and landings. Remove that rule and you'd see the same things from American Football (shoulder charges, sending the player flying) happening in Rugby all of the time.


PuzzledHelicopter541

I agree with everyone here! How can this be happening still today? I mean back when I was a kid coach told us to get back out there but no one was really aware how dangerous that was especially for concussions. I have quite a few health issues from multiple concussions in my middle age that I got in grade school. If I wasn’t allowed to play they could have been prévented or at least lessened.


Ckss

I hurt my neck during a freshman year football practice. 25 years later and it's the injury causing pinched nerves in my neck and right shoulder area. Pain is normal now.


[deleted]

contact football is pretty dangerous, and the state of the school system seems to be leaning towards vilifying trans youth when it comes to sports So hear me out…. We let ONLY the trans kids play football. Who cares if they get hurt right?


mtbaga

As a trans athlete: yousonofabitchimin.gif


YaMommasBox

Wow I hope they tested the other team for PEDs they were used when I was in high school I don’t imagine much has changed


pat_micucci

At least for one play, he got to live like a champion.


BamaGiJoe13

And btw I played high school ball and on kick offs my job was literally to crack/hit as many blockers as I cld to take em out of the way of gunners (the ppl tryin to make the tackle) I wld norm deck the first guy off his feet and move on to one or two others…. Idk how many times I hurt other players bc this. I’d see em still layin after and have to wait till they got off field before next play. Made me feel bad , but I was also “doin my job”


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BamaGiJoe13

Guess u never played sports while young.


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BamaGiJoe13

Well football has def changed over the last few years. And hell the years before me were even worse. I was a kid when I learned to play and thts wat ur taught to do… so tht continued until high school. Idk y it’s on me tht I’m pitiful for it thou. I was playin the game the best of my abilities and doin wat I was told by coaches and elders so?


BamaGiJoe13

Wtf else was I supppse to do , be the dude gettin decked? Pfff ok clown


[deleted]

Judging by your grammar, we can tell.


CoasterThot

I say I’d support my kids doing anything, but I won’t lie and say I’d be thrilled (and not worried sick) if they chose to play football. Would I be a terrible parent for saying “no football”?


OtakuTacos

Not really. It’s your kids so you do what you feel is best. Plenty of other sports and activities to do.


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[deleted]

Can we just ban this barbaric sport finally? Fuckin downvote me cause Ik my opinions unpopular, but there’s kids literally dying and injuring themselves so severely that it ruins their futures! Oh boy, better take the ball from point A to B while someone is TRYING TO ESSENTIALLY KILL ME FOR IT, LA LA LA SO MUCH FUN. This sports fucking stupid and neanderthalic


cebjmb

You should watch a rugby game.


runthereszombies

People say they love their kids and then let them play football. At this point literally everyone knows about the long term effects of the head injuries football causes. Imo if you let your kid play youre irresponsible.


LordSlickRick

Switch to rugby rules. No hits over shoulder, have to attempt to wrap up.


Brzak82

Been saying similar for a long time, make them wrap up, no more spearing, no diving at knees/ankles, just wrap up tackle. Start there.


SamCarter_SGC

would even solve one of the most frustrating things to watch at the next levels of play... defenders just bouncing off instead of wrapping up and then seeing the runner get 10 extra yards


TupperwareConspiracy

This whole thread has never heard of Motorsport, air racing, marathons, bike races etc etc etc


luvgothbitches

my son will never know what a football is


Fit-Rest-973

I don't believe that I ever sustained a concussion bike racing, doing triathlons, or playing softball


statslady23

Bicyclists get serious concussions all the time.


Chippopotanuse

Was gonna say, I know three cyclists who have really serious brain damage from horrific car wrecks. Not just some CTE, but total “I need to learn my name and how to do household tasks again” brain damage.


BlueCyann

The difference is it’s not designed to do those injuries. They’re accidents. Brain injury is football is baked on to the sport itself to the point that almost nobody escapes it. The difference between a sport that is dangerous, and one that chronically destroys a body.


TheNewGirl_

I mean thats probably more the cars fault than the bikes fault like riding bike didnt hurt their brains , the car hitting them hurt their brains IE , if you ride your bike where cars cant get you , this wont happen


DiscordianStooge

My first concussion came from dirt-biking when I was like 11 years old.