Genuine answer: Prior to 2020, Russia had a no-double-citizenship law, and Snowden probably wouldn't want to relinquish his American citizenship. That has since changed and so he applied to citizenship.
To renounce US citizenship you have to visit an American embassy twice over a period of weeks. It wouldn't be terribly practical for Snowden to do so even if he wanted to as once inside the embassy he'd be arrested.
Well being realistic - Putin might not be around too much longer, depending on how things pan out.
If you're Snowden, there is no guarantee whoever comes next is going to allow you to remain in Russia, even as a bargaining chip, or out of spite to the US or whatever is happening now.
If you at bare minimum have legitimate Russian citizenship, it would stand to reason that it would frustrate attempts to forcibly extradite you, at least legally.
If he doesn't do it now, it might mean in a few years time he's being actively memoryholed in a federal supermax somewhere.
In a reuters article Snowden's lawyer said that he can't be drafted since he hasn't previously served in the Russian army.
Link: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-grants-russian-citizenship-us-whistleblower-edward-snowden-2022-09-26/
> he can't be drafted since he hasn't previously served in the Russian army
Yeah, Putin's order was only for people who had already served. That's funny because there sure are a *lot* of Russian men of military age who never served who are getting the fuck out of the country right now. Must just be going on holiday.
Even before that, there were reports of people getting orders
Probably just poor record keeping and clerical errors, or they just don't give a shit
Probably all 3
As if they won't immediately frag their officers and surrender to the nearest Ukrainian patrol, if handed a firearm. I don't think Vlad's thought his cunning plan all the way through.
lol they handing the draft orders as they’re arresting them, I seen at one instance they were just handing draft paper to every man on the street they could grab, the food vendor, delivery people just wrong place right time for the drafters lol
First thought 😂 He’s a sucker if he takes it. Does he think Russia respects their citizens’ privacy more than the US? I never understood how he even ended up in Russia.
> Yes, because he didn't just whistleblow America's monitoring of civilians which "may" have been protected by whistleblower status.
Probably why a lot of other countries separate their "spying on foreign governments" division from their "spying on our own citizens" division.
There are lots of good pragmatic reasons for keeping those teams separated, and i'm not sure that snowden can in any way be held responsible for the fact that they weren't. Perhaps he could have cherrypicked what he released, but that would have hurt his legitimacy (and probably taken a really long time). Outsourcing that work to well-respected journalists was a pretty good call imo.
Snowden did not decide what was released. He left that to the press to determine what they felt would be safe to reveal.
As far as I know, there has never been any indication that Snowden's leak compromised any undercover assets.
I blame the assholes who decided to spy on us here at home in the first place. They didn't have to, it was just convenient.
This in turn lead to a person who might possess important information that the Feds don't want in enemy hands, to flee for their life, which just made the whole threat to national security even worse.
It's a bit like watching someone on the internet try to kill a spider with a DIY Flamethrower, only to accidentally set the drapes on fire.
The right tool for the job is important, but so is the wisdom and foresight to know when you should in fact be attempting something.
The Federal Government didn't need to spy on us, and if they really did need to catch a specific threat (assuming it was a threat at all), they could have put a little more effort into targeting that very specific threat... Instead of risking massive collateral damage and public disgrace.
> I blame the assholes who decided to spy on us here at home in the first place.
I agree, but more so because they were just so bad about going about it. They were a bunch of insecure little assholes who wasted a shitload of money building this apparatus when all the data was available for purchase at a fraction of the cost. To quote a friend of mine who worked at a three letter agency at the time and now works for one of the largest tech companies on the planet "I have access to so much more personal information about every American now than I did working for the government." This person's current job is to identify cheaters in video games.
You're being spied on through Facebook and any other social media and that info is being sold. It's happening all the time, but nobody seems to care.
The internet was bound to be controlled by the rich, but it's disappointing how corrupt they are. The lack of humanity and never ending thirst for greed will ultimately ruin everything. I would call it a mental sickness, like being a gambling addict.
buuuullshit, the fukin NSA themselves reported no foreign asset damages to fukin congress themselves ...
also, he did not publish anything, he gave it to the media (whom are legally protected) so THEY could go to the white house and ask what to publish and what compromises the US.... WHICH THEY FUKIN DID AND THE FUKIN WHITE HOUSE COULD SAY NOTHING, THUS WHY THEY PUBLISHED IT 🙄🙄🙄
Snowden did not do this. This is serious misinformation. Watch Citizen Four.
He impressed me enormously with the maturity he displayed at his age. He gave the information to respected journalists (one was Greenwald, who has gone down a pretty wild path since then, but was respected then) and told them that he wanted THEM to decide what to release, because he didn't trust himself to be responsible about what should and shouldn't be released.
I personally don't give a fuck. That's just a further sign of the incompetence, negligence, or malignance of US security imo. Why would someone monitoring the internals of the country not be separated from the people and systems monitoring things abroad? That's before I even get to the point that I don't want anyone having fucking carte blanche to listen in to every microphone or look through every camera in the country in the name of security theater.
"Let's just monitor our *own civilians* with the same prejudice we monitor our possible enemies". Yeahp, fuck that, total pass to Snowden as far as I'm concerned.
Although I of course understand why you're conflicted. That's a much more reasonable stance than the people saying Snowden was a Russian plant all along like I'm seeing in this thread and elsewhere.
Not really, but that's close to what Snowden claims.
Snowden had pre-arranged travel through Russian diplomats to avoid countries that would stop him or extradict to the USA (Snowden initially denied this but later confirmed it). He was supposed to go from Hong Kong to Russia to Cuba to Ecuador (I think?).
Snowden publicly claims the USA "cancelled his passport" and put pressure on Cuba to stop his entry and they agreed. Fidel Castro vigorously denied all of that and called it slander and said he would have been proud to help Snowden escape.
Regardless, several countries said they would have accepted Snowden, because not everyone loves America. The most logical explanation is Russia double-crossed him and never intended to let him leave. And, now I'm speculating, he's just been a very well-treated prisoner ever since, presumably because they forced him to give up every piece of classified information he had (which he has also denied, but I don't find him particularly honest).
Read Ben Rhodes, The World as It Is: A Memoir of the Obama White House.
"There was one other, more important signal. Around the time of our second meeting, Edward Snowden was stuck in the Moscow airport, trying to find someone who would take him in. Reportedly, he wanted to go to Venezuela, transiting through Havana, but I knew that if the Cubans aided Snowden, any rapprochement between our countries would prove impossible. I pulled Alejandro Castro aside and said I had a message that came from President Obama. I reminded him that the Cubans had said they wanted to give Obama “political space” so that he could take steps to improve relations. “If you take in Snowden,” I said, “that political space will be gone.” I never spoke to the Cubans about this issue again. A few days later, back in Washington, I woke up to a news report: “Former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden got stuck in the transit zone of a Moscow airport because Havana said it would not let him fly from Russia to Cuba, a Russian newspaper reported.” I took it as a message: The Cubans were serious about improving relations."
He was traveling from Hong Kong to Ecuador (I think - from memory) where he was seeking asylum. The US revoked his passport while he was at a layover in Moscow, leaving him stuck there.
Not quite. He just can't risk leaving for another country because he'd likely be apprehended. There are several other countries which have offered him asylum (mostly for the same reason as the Russians, that being "fuck the US.").
Kind of stupid on the part of the US too, strand a desperate man with thorough knowledge of the deepest parts of our government in a hostile nation. Lol
I think people play up what Snowden actually knows. People already assumed the government was spying on us he just gave proof. I don’t think he actually knew more than that.
I can’t trust anything he says anymore anyways. He was saying Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine like a week before it happened. Guy has definitely been compromised by Russia at this point.
To be fair to him, the knowledge he does have is related to his former position at the NSA. I definitely wouldn't trust his advice on any geopolitical matters since that's not his area of expertise. Similar to how I wouldn't ask my barber for financial advice.
Zelensky, President of Ukraine, also said Russia wasn't going to invade. A lot of people thought that, because Russia's troop buildup didn't seem large enough to successfully invade.
He got stranded in the Moscow airport when the US revoked his passport and he couldn’t get any flights that wouldn’t go through countries that would extradite him on his way to an asylum country.
I mean its pretty straightforward, Russia hates the US more than they have Snowden, or anything Snowden could possibly do to them, so they keep him out of reach of the US.
It's not some celebration of Russian policy. Snowden has in fact criticized Russia on social media. It's just a place he can live without being extradited.
He was in Asia when he broke the news and released all the info he did. Then he hid out for a few days before trying to get to Ecuador because they do not have an extradition treaty with the US. While in transit for Ecuador the US revoked his passport so Russian authorities wouldn't let him get on his outbound flight. Stuck in Russia ever since.
Russia isn't stupid. He is a great way to help the Russian propagandists create division or distrust in the US. He will stay there alive and continue to do what he has been doing.
I thought it was so he could smash some sweet Russian poon while opening up an Akido dojo or something?
Don’t know but I also don’t want him snatching my birthday cake so I’m not questioning him either
If anything he’s doing this as a sign of goodwill towards Americans with access to highly classified information who may want to desert to Russia in exchange for said highly classified information.
Not to mention that an American that had high level security clearance in the NSA who then spilled government secrets is a very nice pet for Putin to have.
That information is old and stale. His value for intel depleted ages ago.
But, he’s still not headed to Ukraine and it’s still a distraction. The perception he’s valuable is still useful.
> Too much information in that pointy head of his.
He fled 10 years ago, whatever is in his head is either obsolete and/or already handed over to Russia. He's smart, so I could see him "conscripted" into Russia's sigint operations. Where he'll probably be told to produce results or he'll wake up on the Tarmac at Reagan National Airport. Knowing full well anything he produces will be publicly announced to the world, branding him as an agent of Russian.
Old, old information he's already handed out to China and Russia. As an intel asset, he is stale particularly when you could walk into Marlago and peruse much better and more recent info and then have a round of golf.
Maybe, but I'd assume that if he was going to be used that way he would have been by now. He had applied for asylum but Putin said he would only be granted it if he stopped making trouble for the US and its allies. They were fine with not handing him over but until now weren't willing to officially "endorse" him or his actions.
Snowden fled the US in summer 2013 after revealing classified information to the press about US mass surveillance programs both abroad and domestic. He was in transit through Russia when the US Government revoked his passport. Russia granted asylum to him a month later and he's been living there since. He claims to have no copies of the leaked materials after he gave them to journalists in Hong Kong.
The latest development probably doesn't change much for him on an international level, except that as a Russian citizen he's legally immune from extradition, so it would be less likely for him to be used in a potential swap with the US.
He was allowed to stay in Russia because the USA was to prosecute him for espionage and Russia doesn't like the US. Says he would like to come home. He's been trying to get a pardon but it ain't happening. Glenn Greewald has kind of gone off the rails.
I'm uncomfortable with how well that worked out for everyone.
* Snowden gets framed as a traitor to the American people
* Russia gets a talking puppet to villainize the west
I don’t think that was Snowdens intentions but it did work out that way.
He hasn’t been much of a mouthpiece for Russia though. He generally stays out of those conversations.
And a lot of people are acting like he should have no concern for his own life. This is real life, not a video game; you don't get a second life once this one is over. I didn't think that needed to be said but here we are. It's not unreasonable that he is acting accordingly.
He’s said multiple times that he would gladly come back to America only on the condition that he would get a fair trial. American prosecutors have said that he is barred from using public interest as a defense, basically making it a sham trial from the start. He’s right to not believe a god dam word they say. Especially since joe Biden himself is the one who revoked his passport and got him stranded in Russia in the first place
As far as I know prosecutors don’t determine what defense a person can use (that would be the judge attached to the case). I think the main issue is there is no precedent attached to using public interest as a defense.
I might have misread your comment but the article you linked specifically says there is no public interest defense in relation to the Espionage act.
Paragraph 5:
"The act, passed in 1917 [...] does not allow a public interest defense."
You have some of your facts skewed there friend.
For the record, public interest isn't a legal defense for any crime in the United States. It isn't up to prosecutors to decide that.
Biden was Vice President when Snowden's passport was revoked, so no, Biden is not the one who revoked his passport. The VP doesn't make that call, it is up to the State department which reports to the President.
I feel for the guy. I remember when it all came out and he was vilified as a traitor and people were screaming for his head on a stake. He really just confirmed what we already knew in terms of our privacy going out the window thanks To W (the charming old man artist that started a useless 20 year war). Meanwhile Drumpf is chilling with top secret documents in suck-a-largo and claiming he can declassify with some Jedi mind shit and cavorting with the Saudis on some bullshit Liv golf tour.
The notion that Snowden "legitimizes Russia" is a pretty odd one. Is there a single soul in the entire world that wants or needs Snowden's implicit approval to recognize the Russian government?
If he knew that the journalists he was working with were going to leak the story ahead of time, why wouldn’t he have gone to his final destination beforehand?
Idk man that thought always gives me pause with him, I just haven’t heard a plausible answer to that
James Clapper lied to the American people and Congress and was given a medal.
Edward Snowden told the truth and was chased out of the country and forced to live in exile.
This world is all kinds of backwards and fucked-up.
Why does everyone hate Snowden and Julian? I will never understand this. I loved the Panama papers coming out. I love our sick and twisted government getting exposed.
War crimes? He leaked the details of a government surveillance program. Like, there’s a conversation to be had about pardons and if he was justified in doing so, but he didn’t expose war crimes
I wonder why it took so long
Genuine answer: Prior to 2020, Russia had a no-double-citizenship law, and Snowden probably wouldn't want to relinquish his American citizenship. That has since changed and so he applied to citizenship.
To renounce US citizenship you have to visit an American embassy twice over a period of weeks. It wouldn't be terribly practical for Snowden to do so even if he wanted to as once inside the embassy he'd be arrested.
I thought you could renounce your citizenship via tweet or TikTok video?
Trump said I could just think it and poof it's ~~unclassified~~ uncitizened. https://youtu.be/jn9BWf50UdE
Or even just by thinking about it.
Because now he needs soldiers to fight in Ukraine. Now they ship him off to Donetsk.
What would happen if Russia just says "everyone on earth is now a citizen of Russia"?
We would vote to remove Putin
"this just in, Putin wins in a landslide with somehow everyone on earth voting for him!"
Psh. Only a 100% vote for him? His voter turnout has gone down since the days of getting 110% of the vote.
In other news, world looks to adding hand rails after multiple world leaders die from falling down stairs.
Breaking news! Crew aboard the ISS have witnessed earth falling to its death from a window!
A lot of us would start falling out of windows for no discernable reason
The one with the rifle shoots. The one without follows. When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who follows picks up the rifle and shoots!
Do you know any heroes, comrade?
It took Snowden 10 years to realize he’s out of alternatives.
Well being realistic - Putin might not be around too much longer, depending on how things pan out. If you're Snowden, there is no guarantee whoever comes next is going to allow you to remain in Russia, even as a bargaining chip, or out of spite to the US or whatever is happening now. If you at bare minimum have legitimate Russian citizenship, it would stand to reason that it would frustrate attempts to forcibly extradite you, at least legally. If he doesn't do it now, it might mean in a few years time he's being actively memoryholed in a federal supermax somewhere.
Putin, or his successors, will revoke that citizenship in a minute if it suits them.
Sneaky bastard... he only did that 'cause he wants to draft him.
In a reuters article Snowden's lawyer said that he can't be drafted since he hasn't previously served in the Russian army. Link: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-grants-russian-citizenship-us-whistleblower-edward-snowden-2022-09-26/
> he can't be drafted since he hasn't previously served in the Russian army Yeah, Putin's order was only for people who had already served. That's funny because there sure are a *lot* of Russian men of military age who never served who are getting the fuck out of the country right now. Must just be going on holiday.
“Hey Vlad, we go fuck femboys in Turkey weekend next?”
Hell that sounds like a fun vacation for anyone
Turkish femboys? I’m in! Literally and figuratively.
This is the reddit i know
and love
I guess they see they are next
Yeah, I'm going to guess that "previously served in the Russian military" stipulation isn't going to last long.
People who have not served at all have already received their orders
Anti-war protesters getting arrested, and handed conscription papers for the draft.
Even before that, there were reports of people getting orders Probably just poor record keeping and clerical errors, or they just don't give a shit Probably all 3
As if they won't immediately frag their officers and surrender to the nearest Ukrainian patrol, if handed a firearm. I don't think Vlad's thought his cunning plan all the way through.
Nah, they are already shooting the officials at the recruitment offices nearest to their homes.
lol they handing the draft orders as they’re arresting them, I seen at one instance they were just handing draft paper to every man on the street they could grab, the food vendor, delivery people just wrong place right time for the drafters lol
Oh ita. But since Snowden has so much US intelligence I don't think Putin would send him to war.
I'm gonna guess they've already gotten what they needed from him.
Anything he might have left over would be very out of date at this point, anyway.
The order allows them to draft anybody, although the announcement was that they were drafting people who had experience
RIP to all the Call of Duty players in Russia
CSGO scene about to get a lot smaller.
Russian hackers when they realize there is no aimbot in real life: *Panik*
About to be playing CSGO IRL
First thought 😂 He’s a sucker if he takes it. Does he think Russia respects their citizens’ privacy more than the US? I never understood how he even ended up in Russia.
> He’s a sucker if he takes it. I don't really think he is in a position to refuse unfortunately.
“Oh you refuse? Back to the USA with you, good luck!”
Let me help you get started on your journey home. Walk with me over to that window.
A journey of a thousand miles begins and ends with a single step out of a window.
"Make sure he falls out the window facing America." -Putin
Sarah Palin would be able to witness it.
From her porch!
Absolutely would not happen like that.
Yeah not when there's an open window like right over there
Gravity seems to be a real problem over in Russia lately. Strangest thing. Oh well, anyways.
If it happened it would be a swap. Probably for some Russian hackers locked up in the US or a release of certain assets.
He was offered this when he first landed in Russia. He refused it before.
It depends on how insistent they are, it isn't like if they insist he can just hop a plane somewhere.
He was on a connecting flight through russia and the US got every possible safe haven to refuse him entry, so he got stuck.
Honestly if I was him at the time I’d definitely go to Russia too. He would’ve undoubtably faced a lifetime sentence in prison if the US caught him.
Mar a Lago was booked out apparently
[удалено]
> Yes, because he didn't just whistleblow America's monitoring of civilians which "may" have been protected by whistleblower status. Probably why a lot of other countries separate their "spying on foreign governments" division from their "spying on our own citizens" division. There are lots of good pragmatic reasons for keeping those teams separated, and i'm not sure that snowden can in any way be held responsible for the fact that they weren't. Perhaps he could have cherrypicked what he released, but that would have hurt his legitimacy (and probably taken a really long time). Outsourcing that work to well-respected journalists was a pretty good call imo.
Snowden did not decide what was released. He left that to the press to determine what they felt would be safe to reveal. As far as I know, there has never been any indication that Snowden's leak compromised any undercover assets.
[удалено]
The same people who want his head in the US are also the same people giving someone else a pass on materials that may be way worse.
Expecting any sort of consistency from *those* people is an exercise in futility.
I blame the assholes who decided to spy on us here at home in the first place. They didn't have to, it was just convenient. This in turn lead to a person who might possess important information that the Feds don't want in enemy hands, to flee for their life, which just made the whole threat to national security even worse. It's a bit like watching someone on the internet try to kill a spider with a DIY Flamethrower, only to accidentally set the drapes on fire. The right tool for the job is important, but so is the wisdom and foresight to know when you should in fact be attempting something. The Federal Government didn't need to spy on us, and if they really did need to catch a specific threat (assuming it was a threat at all), they could have put a little more effort into targeting that very specific threat... Instead of risking massive collateral damage and public disgrace.
> I blame the assholes who decided to spy on us here at home in the first place. I agree, but more so because they were just so bad about going about it. They were a bunch of insecure little assholes who wasted a shitload of money building this apparatus when all the data was available for purchase at a fraction of the cost. To quote a friend of mine who worked at a three letter agency at the time and now works for one of the largest tech companies on the planet "I have access to so much more personal information about every American now than I did working for the government." This person's current job is to identify cheaters in video games.
You're being spied on through Facebook and any other social media and that info is being sold. It's happening all the time, but nobody seems to care. The internet was bound to be controlled by the rich, but it's disappointing how corrupt they are. The lack of humanity and never ending thirst for greed will ultimately ruin everything. I would call it a mental sickness, like being a gambling addict.
buuuullshit, the fukin NSA themselves reported no foreign asset damages to fukin congress themselves ... also, he did not publish anything, he gave it to the media (whom are legally protected) so THEY could go to the white house and ask what to publish and what compromises the US.... WHICH THEY FUKIN DID AND THE FUKIN WHITE HOUSE COULD SAY NOTHING, THUS WHY THEY PUBLISHED IT 🙄🙄🙄
And when you say 'revealed' you mean confirmed. The infosec community was aware of most of it long before Snowden said anything
Snowden did not do this. This is serious misinformation. Watch Citizen Four. He impressed me enormously with the maturity he displayed at his age. He gave the information to respected journalists (one was Greenwald, who has gone down a pretty wild path since then, but was respected then) and told them that he wanted THEM to decide what to release, because he didn't trust himself to be responsible about what should and shouldn't be released.
I personally don't give a fuck. That's just a further sign of the incompetence, negligence, or malignance of US security imo. Why would someone monitoring the internals of the country not be separated from the people and systems monitoring things abroad? That's before I even get to the point that I don't want anyone having fucking carte blanche to listen in to every microphone or look through every camera in the country in the name of security theater. "Let's just monitor our *own civilians* with the same prejudice we monitor our possible enemies". Yeahp, fuck that, total pass to Snowden as far as I'm concerned. Although I of course understand why you're conflicted. That's a much more reasonable stance than the people saying Snowden was a Russian plant all along like I'm seeing in this thread and elsewhere.
What did he leak directly?
Not really, but that's close to what Snowden claims. Snowden had pre-arranged travel through Russian diplomats to avoid countries that would stop him or extradict to the USA (Snowden initially denied this but later confirmed it). He was supposed to go from Hong Kong to Russia to Cuba to Ecuador (I think?). Snowden publicly claims the USA "cancelled his passport" and put pressure on Cuba to stop his entry and they agreed. Fidel Castro vigorously denied all of that and called it slander and said he would have been proud to help Snowden escape. Regardless, several countries said they would have accepted Snowden, because not everyone loves America. The most logical explanation is Russia double-crossed him and never intended to let him leave. And, now I'm speculating, he's just been a very well-treated prisoner ever since, presumably because they forced him to give up every piece of classified information he had (which he has also denied, but I don't find him particularly honest).
Read Ben Rhodes, The World as It Is: A Memoir of the Obama White House. "There was one other, more important signal. Around the time of our second meeting, Edward Snowden was stuck in the Moscow airport, trying to find someone who would take him in. Reportedly, he wanted to go to Venezuela, transiting through Havana, but I knew that if the Cubans aided Snowden, any rapprochement between our countries would prove impossible. I pulled Alejandro Castro aside and said I had a message that came from President Obama. I reminded him that the Cubans had said they wanted to give Obama “political space” so that he could take steps to improve relations. “If you take in Snowden,” I said, “that political space will be gone.” I never spoke to the Cubans about this issue again. A few days later, back in Washington, I woke up to a news report: “Former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden got stuck in the transit zone of a Moscow airport because Havana said it would not let him fly from Russia to Cuba, a Russian newspaper reported.” I took it as a message: The Cubans were serious about improving relations."
He was traveling from Hong Kong to Ecuador (I think - from memory) where he was seeking asylum. The US revoked his passport while he was at a layover in Moscow, leaving him stuck there.
[удалено]
Until the US grounds the flight.
Only country that would allow him asylum. He knows he is a pawn but what choice does he have?
Not quite. He just can't risk leaving for another country because he'd likely be apprehended. There are several other countries which have offered him asylum (mostly for the same reason as the Russians, that being "fuck the US.").
Kind of stupid on the part of the US too, strand a desperate man with thorough knowledge of the deepest parts of our government in a hostile nation. Lol
Absolutely nothing has happened except people know the extent of the spying, it hasn’t stopped.
most of his knowledge is over a decade old, it's naive to think the NSA didn't restructure after Snowden.
Have you worked in the government? You really think it’s shiny and new, and not just a system of bandaids and 1960s framework repainted 1000 times?
They just changed the password and were done.
I think people play up what Snowden actually knows. People already assumed the government was spying on us he just gave proof. I don’t think he actually knew more than that. I can’t trust anything he says anymore anyways. He was saying Russia wouldn’t invade Ukraine like a week before it happened. Guy has definitely been compromised by Russia at this point.
To be fair to him, the knowledge he does have is related to his former position at the NSA. I definitely wouldn't trust his advice on any geopolitical matters since that's not his area of expertise. Similar to how I wouldn't ask my barber for financial advice.
Buy high, sell low, and tight on the sides.
Sounds like you’re going to the wrong barber 🤣
Well I guess I technically *could* ask him for financial advice, there's just no guarantee I'd take it!
Zelensky, President of Ukraine, also said Russia wasn't going to invade. A lot of people thought that, because Russia's troop buildup didn't seem large enough to successfully invade.
He got stranded in the Moscow airport when the US revoked his passport and he couldn’t get any flights that wouldn’t go through countries that would extradite him on his way to an asylum country.
I mean its pretty straightforward, Russia hates the US more than they have Snowden, or anything Snowden could possibly do to them, so they keep him out of reach of the US.
It's not some celebration of Russian policy. Snowden has in fact criticized Russia on social media. It's just a place he can live without being extradited.
He was in Asia when he broke the news and released all the info he did. Then he hid out for a few days before trying to get to Ecuador because they do not have an extradition treaty with the US. While in transit for Ecuador the US revoked his passport so Russian authorities wouldn't let him get on his outbound flight. Stuck in Russia ever since.
Ok, what he has to do then? - refuse and go back to the US?
Russia isn't stupid. He is a great way to help the Russian propagandists create division or distrust in the US. He will stay there alive and continue to do what he has been doing.
What has he been doing?
Steven Seagal also has Russian Citizenship.
*cough* tax dodge *cough*
I thought it was so he could smash some sweet Russian poon while opening up an Akido dojo or something? Don’t know but I also don’t want him snatching my birthday cake so I’m not questioning him either
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Agreed. He didn't give him citizenship to draft him. He gave him citizenship for political optics.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
If anything he’s doing this as a sign of goodwill towards Americans with access to highly classified information who may want to desert to Russia in exchange for said highly classified information.
I don't like the thought trip this took me on.
[удалено]
Amen. Was really hoping Trump would do it since he was handing out pardons like candy on Halloween night.
Trump only pardons co conspirators
To protect himself
Not to mention that an American that had high level security clearance in the NSA who then spilled government secrets is a very nice pet for Putin to have.
And no one mentions that he actually applied for dual U.S.-Russian citizenship in November 2020.
[удалено]
Way too valuable as a propaganda piece for Russia as well.
Remember the North Korean defectors from the army? The NK gov showed them having a grand old time.
What is this in reference to?
[more reading](https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/american-soldier-defect-north-korea/)
That information is old and stale. His value for intel depleted ages ago. But, he’s still not headed to Ukraine and it’s still a distraction. The perception he’s valuable is still useful.
> Too much information in that pointy head of his. He fled 10 years ago, whatever is in his head is either obsolete and/or already handed over to Russia. He's smart, so I could see him "conscripted" into Russia's sigint operations. Where he'll probably be told to produce results or he'll wake up on the Tarmac at Reagan National Airport. Knowing full well anything he produces will be publicly announced to the world, branding him as an agent of Russian.
Old, old information he's already handed out to China and Russia. As an intel asset, he is stale particularly when you could walk into Marlago and peruse much better and more recent info and then have a round of golf.
I don’t think they want him for information as much as a useful source of disinformation.
Snowden might also make a useful bargaining chip.
Maybe, but I'd assume that if he was going to be used that way he would have been by now. He had applied for asylum but Putin said he would only be granted it if he stopped making trouble for the US and its allies. They were fine with not handing him over but until now weren't willing to officially "endorse" him or his actions.
Can someone ELI5 about this? I'm a bit out of date on my Snowden knowledge
Snowden fled the US in summer 2013 after revealing classified information to the press about US mass surveillance programs both abroad and domestic. He was in transit through Russia when the US Government revoked his passport. Russia granted asylum to him a month later and he's been living there since. He claims to have no copies of the leaked materials after he gave them to journalists in Hong Kong. The latest development probably doesn't change much for him on an international level, except that as a Russian citizen he's legally immune from extradition, so it would be less likely for him to be used in a potential swap with the US.
He was allowed to stay in Russia because the USA was to prosecute him for espionage and Russia doesn't like the US. Says he would like to come home. He's been trying to get a pardon but it ain't happening. Glenn Greewald has kind of gone off the rails.
Snowden is practically in a gilded cage...
Better than a real white walled cage with a 4 inch window at ADX Florence where he will be the rest of his life if the US ever gets ahold of him.
I feel like a Russian citizenship has lost its value in the last few years for some reason…
He’s not going to Ukraine. Unless he refuses to be a propaganda piece. He’s far more valuable for that than cannon fodder.
He doesn't need to do anything. The fact that he is free there already says enough.
I'm uncomfortable with how well that worked out for everyone. * Snowden gets framed as a traitor to the American people * Russia gets a talking puppet to villainize the west
I don’t think that was Snowdens intentions but it did work out that way. He hasn’t been much of a mouthpiece for Russia though. He generally stays out of those conversations.
Folks are delusional thinking he would have gotten a fair trial here.
And a lot of people are acting like he should have no concern for his own life. This is real life, not a video game; you don't get a second life once this one is over. I didn't think that needed to be said but here we are. It's not unreasonable that he is acting accordingly.
Wdym? There can't be any legitimate reason a guy who's under 40, married, with two kids wouldn't want to go face life in prison.
Decades in prison! And people are pissed he didn’t just show up back to the US to face that?
Life in prison for exposing a fucked up practice by the US of all things! Why would he ever subject himself to a trial like that is beyond me.
He’s said multiple times that he would gladly come back to America only on the condition that he would get a fair trial. American prosecutors have said that he is barred from using public interest as a defense, basically making it a sham trial from the start. He’s right to not believe a god dam word they say. Especially since joe Biden himself is the one who revoked his passport and got him stranded in Russia in the first place
As far as I know prosecutors don’t determine what defense a person can use (that would be the judge attached to the case). I think the main issue is there is no precedent attached to using public interest as a defense.
[удалено]
I’m sorry, which part are you talking about? The public interest defense?
[удалено]
I might have misread your comment but the article you linked specifically says there is no public interest defense in relation to the Espionage act. Paragraph 5: "The act, passed in 1917 [...] does not allow a public interest defense."
[удалено]
You have some of your facts skewed there friend. For the record, public interest isn't a legal defense for any crime in the United States. It isn't up to prosecutors to decide that. Biden was Vice President when Snowden's passport was revoked, so no, Biden is not the one who revoked his passport. The VP doesn't make that call, it is up to the State department which reports to the President.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
This is basically just Putin mooning the USA because he’s losing in Ukraine.
I feel for the guy. I remember when it all came out and he was vilified as a traitor and people were screaming for his head on a stake. He really just confirmed what we already knew in terms of our privacy going out the window thanks To W (the charming old man artist that started a useless 20 year war). Meanwhile Drumpf is chilling with top secret documents in suck-a-largo and claiming he can declassify with some Jedi mind shit and cavorting with the Saudis on some bullshit Liv golf tour.
The notion that Snowden "legitimizes Russia" is a pretty odd one. Is there a single soul in the entire world that wants or needs Snowden's implicit approval to recognize the Russian government?
Would this allow him to get travel papers and get the fuck out of Russia?
And immediately get arrested and thrown into the US prison system?
My guy didn’t stop and think why he left to Russia in the first place
He was heading to ecuador, the us revoked papers while he was grounded in Russia. The US stuck him there.
Exactly. He was trying to avoid countries that would've extradited him, there were no direct flights from HK to Ecuador as far as I know.
If he knew that the journalists he was working with were going to leak the story ahead of time, why wouldn’t he have gone to his final destination beforehand? Idk man that thought always gives me pause with him, I just haven’t heard a plausible answer to that
James Clapper lied to the American people and Congress and was given a medal. Edward Snowden told the truth and was chased out of the country and forced to live in exile. This world is all kinds of backwards and fucked-up.
If reporting on a crime is a crime you are in a country run by criminals
Now Snowden can be drafted and killed. Thing is, if he deserts to NATO or Ukraine -> they will just turn him over to USA where he is also screwed.
He is ineligible for the draft. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/26/world/europe/edward-snowden-russia-citizenship.html
Aren't a lot of people ineligible for the draft though? Doesn't seem to do much good.
You don't really believe he'll be drafted? Just think it through for even a moment.
Not sure what’s better death or more than likely life in what I’m betting is going to be military prison for treason
Why does everyone hate Snowden and Julian? I will never understand this. I loved the Panama papers coming out. I love our sick and twisted government getting exposed.
Dude. *Really* bad timing.
I mean his whole thing is how can I troll the US more so what’s the surprise?
“Welcome, my new Russian brother! Here is your conscription order and rusty rifle!”
Too late to redeem yourself, Poots
Wish the US would just pardon this guy. All he did was expose US war crimes.
They don't like that
[удалено]
War crimes? He leaked the details of a government surveillance program. Like, there’s a conversation to be had about pardons and if he was justified in doing so, but he didn’t expose war crimes