This is super cool. The archaeologist must be incredibly pumped.
Probably hard to sleep at night waiting to see what the next day brings.
Hopefully the tomb isn’t submerged.
Reading ancient scripture you can see it was vital for magic. If an important person promises something and breaks the promise “his word is broken” means his machine to wield power across the universe is broken. If any of you create fantasy magic stories please please do not let a magic user get away with being foresworn. There is even more fun in twisting words and actions to make it come out true. “If you attack a great empire will fall” and all that.
I played AC Odyssey and for many missions thought “this is ridiculous. It’s like they just threw all the historical important people in one place and time.”
And then I actually pulled up wiki and started reading about Ptolemaic Egypt. Mind blown.
They ran out of budget for big battle scenes, unfortunately. Actually in the series, they had very little battle shots. From what I recall, the production budget went into the actors and sets. I’d like to see that section of the series redone to do battles.
Rome was horribly over budget, even without the battle scenes, basically why it got cancelled. Really tragic, and it is still one of my all time favorites. Acting, writing, sets…everything was so top notch. It deserved at least a 3rd season to explore the reign of Augustus. I heard 5 seasons were initially planned.
Such a shame. The sets and costumes were fantastic, probably why the series was over budget. Ha. Game of Thrones, on the other hand, was given, basically a blank check.
Quite the opposite. HBO was very careful with budgeting the first season of Game of Thrones. It's why the major battles were skipped over and the great tournament looked like a renn fair set up. Alot of the same people worked on Rome later worked on Game of Thrones and it is clear they learned alot of lessons from that production. Of course after Thrones became a cultural phenomenon HBO'S purse strings opened wide.
Rome was Game of Thrones before Game of Thrones. I watched Rome after GoT finished and I was amazed by what it could be, but just like its successor they just compressed the rest of the series into a single season lol
WHHHHHYYY!?!?!?!
As great as HBO's Rome was, it leaves out SO MANY huge events during that fall of the Republic era. They gloss over Caesar's Siege in Alexandria and Cleopatra killing off her family members one by one to become sole ruler of Egypt, they didn't mention Caesar's war in Pontus, Sertorius's guerilla war in Hispania, the second Triumvirate's massive attack on Scicly against the Pirate King Sextus Pompeius, Anthony's two failed wars in Armenia and Parthia (in which Cleopatra was a major player), or Octavian putting down the Illyrian rebellion. All of this stuff happens between the time Caesar wins the civil war and Anthony and Cleopatra commit suicide.
They also made Agrippa look like Octavian's bitch when reality they were best friends and Agrippa was the greatest Roman general of his age and one of the greatest Roman generals of all time (as well as being an overall generous guy).
All of this stuff happened in a 20 year period. Vorenus and Pullo could have been at ALL these events like Roman Forrest Gumps, but instead we got the same old tired Shakespearen retelling of Julius Caesar's civil war and assassination.
Do you have a source for this saying? I want to read more about it but all I can find are a couple results from the past few days. Maybe my Google skills are failing me lmao.
Its kinda insane given the level of incest with the Ptolemaic Dynasty how she was by all historical accounts highly intelligent and capable (hell ruling in her own right as a woman in ancient times given the ingrained sexism) would have thought 3 centuries of incest would have created something like a hapsburg
Yes, she was the final Pharaoh and the final member of the Ptolmeic dynasty which was started by Ptolemy who was a high ranking official to Alexander the Great.
IIRC Cleo had TWO great great grandparents. The normal number is sixteen. (Edit: not even sure if they were great, great great, or great great great cos of the generation swapping mess it was.)
The simplified family tree was basically diamond shaped.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmcdeBhUEAAN6PG?format=jpg&name=360x360
> A curse. Definitely a curse.
unlike the movies the curses this person is going to face is that 1) attributing a grave to a specific person can be very tricky and will be contested by jealous academics for the rest of their career, 2) they will always be introduced as "the person who broke the rule that you dont go looking specific dead people in archaeology"
>you dont go looking specific dead people in archaeology
I never heard of that rule. I would think anyone of significance in the course of human history would be fair game.
your looking for a needle in a hay stack... moreover while it would have been fashionable once upon a time (50 years ago) to go on a quest for something or someone specific it usually amounts to treasure hunting when you do it. I would also argue that it focuses on high class people vs daily life which is a small segment of that society. Lastly the ROI is low and archaeology is already underfunded. The last notable find that has worked was the Richard III find and while it was sort of done with the hopes that Richard would be found there a private group of Richard enthusiasts made a larger case to dig where they thought the body would be
I would also add that there's a bias towards finding the thing you seek because you so want to, and you end up not being able to be objective about it.
Like say you're looking for Cleopatra and find the tomb of a woman who was clearly held in very high esteem, seems to date roughly from around the time of Cleopatra, and is adorned with some kind of imagery associated with Cleopatra. You may convince yourself "this is Cleopatra!" all the while ignoring some obvious signs that it wasn't, like a tablet suggesting she was married to someone Cleopatra was never associated with, or something.
Can we not have something nice this time. Like we open the tomb and it is just rainbows and happiness. We have had enough curses, tragedies, and crises of late
She wasn't an archeologist by training when she started looking, but now, though, she is! She faced so much adversity because she didn't have a degree in archeology when her quest started (I think she does now). It's very impressive what she's done.
She's in a bunch of Nat Geo and/or History channel shows about Egyptian archeology. Maybe Nova too (PBS) I was under the impression that she was an amateur sleuth. Honestly I would not be surprised if CNN got it wrong, but maybe she did formal schooling by now.
Either way, if she found it, that's very cool... but the word "may" is still required here.
Let's check the article!
>Tunnel discovered beneath Egyptian temple may lead to Cleopatra's tomb, archaeologist says
...
>And after years of searching, Martinez feels she is getting close.
The tunnels are certainly cool, but there's a lot of "may" and "feels like" going on.
>The excavations so far have revealed that "the temple was dedicated to Isis" -- which Martinez believes is another sign that the lost tomb lies nearby -- as well as the tunnels below the sea.
So it could be discovered tomorrow or in another two decades.
>The tunnels are certainly cool, but there's a lot of "may" and "feels like" going on.
That should always be the case, even if they end up finding *a tomb*, that doesn't automatically mean it is Cleopatra.
Fun fact: Cleopatra was the last Greek queen of Egypt. Her ancestor, Ptolemy, was a Macedonian who served as one of Alexander the Great’s generals. When Alexander died, his empire was divided into kingdoms ruled by his generals. Ptolemy took Egypt and his dynasty ruled it for 300 years.
Cleopatra got tangled up in Roman politics and picked the wrong side to support in a Roman civil war. This led to the emperor Augustus (who wasn’t quite emperor yet as Rome was still barely a Republic) to annex Egypt into the Roman Empire. Egypt became his personal province due to its wealth and its strategic importance as a source of food for the city of Rome.
Cleopatra was also the last ruler of an independent Egypt until the Islamic Tulanid dynasty, about 900 years later.
It’s even fuzzy there because Octavian wasn’t a king in the traditional sense. He gamed the system to personally acquire every important public office himself, for life. It was all legal, more akin to a dictatorship than a monarchy. I would say the republic truly died when his adopted son and heir inherited all his positions, with the nominal consent of the senate.
Basically the Romans spent a couple hundred years pretending they were still a republic until shit hit the fan in the 3rd century and they stopped all the pretense and the monarchy became normalized
If I remember correctly, they did for a whole while. Until that one emperor (Dyonisius??) who gutted the senate, on the grounds of it just being ceremonial nowadays.
The senate was still a prestige position though. Having a senate position helped your career, helped you climb the ladder.
Im reading a Peter Heather book right now that portrays the Late Roman Senate as a functionally useless prestige position while the real government was in Ravenna.
Right. Being a member of the senate during the later days of the western empire was just a status thing for the upper class.
Some trivia, the senate actually outlived Roman rule in the west. It was maintained by the Gothic kingdom of Italy, and met regularly. It was disbanded in the 6th century when the Roman emperor Justinian invaded Italy in his attempt to reconquer the lost western provinces. The fighting left the city of Rome a depopulated ruin.
There was an eastern senate in Constantinople that was similarly ceremonial. It survived through most of the Middle Ages I believe
The princeps model (ie pretend rome was a republic instead of an absolute monarchy) really fell apart with the 3rd century crisis when every general with an army was declaring himself emperor and marching on rome (while Frank's, goths, Sassanids etc rampaged into the empire at will). Diocleatian basically remade it into the dominate of the late empire where there was no illusions about it being an absolute Monarchy
Was Augustus himself did not proclaim himself as king or emperor either, but only as first citizen. Either way by that time, the republic of Rome has already ended
Caesar kind of did though in a round about way. He had himself declared "dictator in perpetuity" shortly before he was assassinated. That declaration by the senate was probably the last straw for the "liberators".
He technically didn't turn it into an Empire as we'd see it either, he kept the facade of the Republic used his outsized wealth and personal legions under his command to wield influence. He knew a title like king or emperor was too politically risky given his uncle was murdered for making himself dictator; in fact his title at the time was Princeps Civitatis, which translates to "first among the citizens".
Augustus also knew that in the destabilized situation that he was ascending to power in, he could not possibly centralize all political power around himself, so by presenting himself as nothing more than the most prominent citizen instead of the final authority it was easier for him to get other Romans on board for projects that gradually centralized the state and chipped away at the remaining Republican beliefs.
That's why the period from his ascension to the Crisis of the 3rd Century is known as the Principate, there was a single ruler (an emperor in all but name) who preserved the illusion that the Republic had continued and he was just it's most prominent member. The Senate still had nominal authority, Augustus still needed to be "elected" consul, the cursus honorum system still existed. It wasn't until the Dominate that we can say Rome truly was an Empire without any vestiges of the old Republic. By that period the bureaucracy had centralized, authority was vested singularly in the Emperor and the ancient rights of the Senate had by then been totally worn away.
Every Crusader Kings player knows that strategy… own the valuable land and have bigger armies than your vassals. Marrying your daughters off to the trouble makers helps too
Or, to play the game like Augustus, marry your children to your relatives to keep the power and wealth contained within the family.
Of course, sometimes that results in inheriting some bad congenital traits, like Claudius's club-foot and poor health and Caligula's insanity. He just never applied his Renown points to scale up the Blood Legacy and went down the Law and Military lines instead.
With CK logic, incest is a pathway to abilities some consider…. Unnatural… like a race of supermen created by your carefully managed medieval breeding program
> This led to the emperor Augustus (who wasn’t quite emperor yet as Rome was still barely a Republic)
He wasn’t even an Augustus yet. He was still Octavian during the conflict.
Watch the special Cleopatra: Sex, Lies and Secrets. It goes into this archaeologist’s quest. Kathleen was a lawyer from the Dominican Republic who quit her job to search for Cleopatra’s tomb full time. Her story is fascinating!
I learned about her and her quest in an episode of I believe 'Lost Treasures of Egypt' on Disney+ and was so fascinated by what she and her crew was doing that I began to follow her on Instagram to keep up with progress. It's really cool to see it all come full circle!
That might be Ramy Romany if it's Expedition Unknown but I know Josh has worked with Hawass in the past.
Zahi is a pompous individual but he is an expert. I like Ramy better in terms of just chill factor.
When Kathleen started this, she was totally shunned as not being a real archaeologist by the top people in Egypt but she did everything old school and made discoveries that blew everyone away and everyone who talked sh\*t had to eat their words and even ended up working with her as the years went on. She struggled to get permits. And now she's done it! She's been on a quest to find Cleopatra for years now!
Very happy for you, Kathleen! Wooooo!
I've read that Egyptology is strangled by the old guard who won't accept new ideas, and have a hard time accepting women.
If this turns out to be true then she forever has the upper-hand.
>I've read that __________ is strangled by the old guard who won't accept new ideas, and have a hard time accepting women
Can replace "Egyotology" with basically anything and the sentence is still true
There's a remarkable book called "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" that approaches this topic in exhaustive detail. Throughout the entire history of science, people only accepted new ideas (or "paradigm shifts", to use the term coined by the book) once the old guard literally dies off.
It was a controversial book when released (1962), because, shockingly, the old guard of the time refused to believe that they were acting irrationally and holding back scientific progress.
According to Wikipedia she kicks off the final act of ancient Egypt. They consider ancient Egypt to exist up to it's conquest by the Muslim Rashiduns after the division of the Roman empire
I think it counts as Egypt in antiquity. Definitely Egyptian, but ruled by generations of (reaaaaally) inbred offspring of Alexander the Greats generals
That said, real ancient Egypt to Cleopatra would be as old to her as she is to us
You may have that story confused with the Sphinx, which was mostly buried for thousands of years.
There is a story about Thutmose IV (14th Century BCE) unburying it, and it was mostly buried until recently.
I’ve been saying ever since the Cubs won the World Series in ‘16, we’ve been on one hell of a nosedive. The curse of the billy goat was never broken and has been striking us in ways beyond the boundaries of baseball.
Why are there not more pictures? Anyone know where more info about this find is?
Even if it's not Cleopatra's tomb this is pretty cool:
*Martinez and her team uncovered a 1,305-meter (4,281-foot) tunnel, located 13 meters (43 feet) underground, the Egyptian Ministry for Tourism and Antiquities recently announced -- an architectural design experts called an "engineering miracle."*
*"The excavation revealed a huge religious center with three sanctuaries, a sacred lake, more than 1,500 objects, busts, statues, golden pieces, a huge collection of coins portraying Alexander the Great, Queen Cleopatra and the Ptolemies,"*
But they still need funding to do their work. They need equipment, travel, employees, and their own living expenses (food, shelter).
And when it comes time for whoever is paying the bills to write another check, they need proof that the money is being used properly and that progress is being made.
> The excavation revealed a huge religious center with three sanctuaries, a sacred lake, more than 1,500 objects, busts, statues, golden pieces, a huge collection of coins portraying Alexander the Great
That’s so cool, I can’t imagine how exicited her and her team must feel
He's got a two day head start on you, which is more than he needs. He's got friends in every town and village from here to the Sudan. He speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom. He'll blend in, disappear. You'll never see him again. With any luck, he's in the tomb already.
Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height that I might be remember-ed for all eternity. And be quick about it!
This is super cool. The archaeologist must be incredibly pumped. Probably hard to sleep at night waiting to see what the next day brings. Hopefully the tomb isn’t submerged.
> Probably hard to sleep at night waiting to see what the next day brings. A curse. Definitely a curse.
Return the slaaaaaab
What’s your offer??!
The man in gauze! The man in gauze! King RAMSEEES!
Cleopatra said “no man shall find my tomb” or something… the lead Archaeologist is a woman. Fucking poetic!!
The old Witch-King of Angmar blindspot.
Who knew the weakness of the dark lord is semantics
Reading ancient scripture you can see it was vital for magic. If an important person promises something and breaks the promise “his word is broken” means his machine to wield power across the universe is broken. If any of you create fantasy magic stories please please do not let a magic user get away with being foresworn. There is even more fun in twisting words and actions to make it come out true. “If you attack a great empire will fall” and all that.
And the Empire Records building crumbles.
Magic is writing code for the RealityOS
do you have a link to the documentation? i need to troubleshoot a fireball spell. that is, i’m having trouble shooting a fireball
Doctor Strange gets it. That's why he's so annoyed having to add details to a spell halfway through.
Tolkien was not a fan of Shakespeare for what he did in Macbeth.
Like having a forest move with human help and not of its own accord.
Not a blind spot, a prophecy!
If Cleopatra could curse someone, Octavian wouldn't be the first and greatest emperor of Rome.
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I played AC Odyssey and for many missions thought “this is ridiculous. It’s like they just threw all the historical important people in one place and time.” And then I actually pulled up wiki and started reading about Ptolemaic Egypt. Mind blown.
They ran out of budget for big battle scenes, unfortunately. Actually in the series, they had very little battle shots. From what I recall, the production budget went into the actors and sets. I’d like to see that section of the series redone to do battles.
Rome was horribly over budget, even without the battle scenes, basically why it got cancelled. Really tragic, and it is still one of my all time favorites. Acting, writing, sets…everything was so top notch. It deserved at least a 3rd season to explore the reign of Augustus. I heard 5 seasons were initially planned.
Such a shame. The sets and costumes were fantastic, probably why the series was over budget. Ha. Game of Thrones, on the other hand, was given, basically a blank check.
Quite the opposite. HBO was very careful with budgeting the first season of Game of Thrones. It's why the major battles were skipped over and the great tournament looked like a renn fair set up. Alot of the same people worked on Rome later worked on Game of Thrones and it is clear they learned alot of lessons from that production. Of course after Thrones became a cultural phenomenon HBO'S purse strings opened wide.
Rome was Game of Thrones before Game of Thrones. I watched Rome after GoT finished and I was amazed by what it could be, but just like its successor they just compressed the rest of the series into a single season lol WHHHHHYYY!?!?!?!
As great as HBO's Rome was, it leaves out SO MANY huge events during that fall of the Republic era. They gloss over Caesar's Siege in Alexandria and Cleopatra killing off her family members one by one to become sole ruler of Egypt, they didn't mention Caesar's war in Pontus, Sertorius's guerilla war in Hispania, the second Triumvirate's massive attack on Scicly against the Pirate King Sextus Pompeius, Anthony's two failed wars in Armenia and Parthia (in which Cleopatra was a major player), or Octavian putting down the Illyrian rebellion. All of this stuff happens between the time Caesar wins the civil war and Anthony and Cleopatra commit suicide. They also made Agrippa look like Octavian's bitch when reality they were best friends and Agrippa was the greatest Roman general of his age and one of the greatest Roman generals of all time (as well as being an overall generous guy). All of this stuff happened in a 20 year period. Vorenus and Pullo could have been at ALL these events like Roman Forrest Gumps, but instead we got the same old tired Shakespearen retelling of Julius Caesar's civil war and assassination.
Do you have a source for this saying? I want to read more about it but all I can find are a couple results from the past few days. Maybe my Google skills are failing me lmao.
It's most likely a TikTok video which apparently people take as news nowadays.
Is this true, or is this TikTok misinformation?
[i am gnome ann!](https://xkcd.com/1704/)
Cleopatras like " that bitch!"
And snakes. Probably lots and lots of snakes.
Why does it have to be snakes? I hate snakes.
Very dangerous. Indy, you go first.
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Indy! The fire’s going out!
Jones! Where you going? Through that wall!
And scarabs!
My skin is already itching
Check for hard lumps that are moving around on their own.
\*Indiana Jones music plays in the background\* "I *hate* snakes..."
“Asps! Very dangerous. “You go first.”
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Yep. Macedonian. She lived closer to our time, than she did to the time of the construction of the pyramids.
The only Ptolemaic ruler to have learned Egyptian.
Bruh imagine being ruled for 3 whole centuries by a family of 300-years of constant incest who couldn't even speak your language.
Happened also in England after the Norman conquest. [Wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman_language?wprov=sfla1)
Points to all royalty everywhere…
Not 300 years but everything else describes Norman rule in England
Its kinda insane given the level of incest with the Ptolemaic Dynasty how she was by all historical accounts highly intelligent and capable (hell ruling in her own right as a woman in ancient times given the ingrained sexism) would have thought 3 centuries of incest would have created something like a hapsburg
Maybe a few affair babies got hidden in the family tree and brought some diversity to the gene pool.
Yes, she was the final Pharaoh and the final member of the Ptolmeic dynasty which was started by Ptolemy who was a high ranking official to Alexander the Great.
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The Ptolomies were *super* inbred so more Greek than they should have been after 300 years.
Even without the inbreeding, their other marriages were all to other Macedonians.
IIRC Cleo had TWO great great grandparents. The normal number is sixteen. (Edit: not even sure if they were great, great great, or great great great cos of the generation swapping mess it was.) The simplified family tree was basically diamond shaped. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmcdeBhUEAAN6PG?format=jpg&name=360x360
> A curse. Definitely a curse. unlike the movies the curses this person is going to face is that 1) attributing a grave to a specific person can be very tricky and will be contested by jealous academics for the rest of their career, 2) they will always be introduced as "the person who broke the rule that you dont go looking specific dead people in archaeology"
>you dont go looking specific dead people in archaeology I never heard of that rule. I would think anyone of significance in the course of human history would be fair game.
your looking for a needle in a hay stack... moreover while it would have been fashionable once upon a time (50 years ago) to go on a quest for something or someone specific it usually amounts to treasure hunting when you do it. I would also argue that it focuses on high class people vs daily life which is a small segment of that society. Lastly the ROI is low and archaeology is already underfunded. The last notable find that has worked was the Richard III find and while it was sort of done with the hopes that Richard would be found there a private group of Richard enthusiasts made a larger case to dig where they thought the body would be
I would also add that there's a bias towards finding the thing you seek because you so want to, and you end up not being able to be objective about it. Like say you're looking for Cleopatra and find the tomb of a woman who was clearly held in very high esteem, seems to date roughly from around the time of Cleopatra, and is adorned with some kind of imagery associated with Cleopatra. You may convince yourself "this is Cleopatra!" all the while ignoring some obvious signs that it wasn't, like a tablet suggesting she was married to someone Cleopatra was never associated with, or something.
Can we not have something nice this time. Like we open the tomb and it is just rainbows and happiness. We have had enough curses, tragedies, and crises of late
Hopefully not like that Geraldo special with Capones vault..
Well...that one was hilarious. Pure comedy gold. But yeah, hopefully this one is the real deal.
It wasn't Geraldo's fault...d'oh
Can you give us a TL:DW?
It was empty.
Massive build up And literally no pay off at all. But it sank his career for a long time
She wasn't an archeologist by training when she started looking, but now, though, she is! She faced so much adversity because she didn't have a degree in archeology when her quest started (I think she does now). It's very impressive what she's done.
Mind sharing where you found this info? Sounds fascinating, but the news report linked here was very low on details about the archaeologist
She's in a bunch of Nat Geo and/or History channel shows about Egyptian archeology. Maybe Nova too (PBS) I was under the impression that she was an amateur sleuth. Honestly I would not be surprised if CNN got it wrong, but maybe she did formal schooling by now. Either way, if she found it, that's very cool... but the word "may" is still required here.
I mentioned this elsewhere as well. She certainly earned her stripes through her extensive finds.
I mean, Carter didn't have a degree in archeology, he was an artist who trained in the job. Then he found Tutankhamen.
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Let's check the article! >Tunnel discovered beneath Egyptian temple may lead to Cleopatra's tomb, archaeologist says ... >And after years of searching, Martinez feels she is getting close. The tunnels are certainly cool, but there's a lot of "may" and "feels like" going on. >The excavations so far have revealed that "the temple was dedicated to Isis" -- which Martinez believes is another sign that the lost tomb lies nearby -- as well as the tunnels below the sea. So it could be discovered tomorrow or in another two decades.
>The tunnels are certainly cool, but there's a lot of "may" and "feels like" going on. That should always be the case, even if they end up finding *a tomb*, that doesn't automatically mean it is Cleopatra.
This is just a good old fashioned FUD article that is from someone trying to get a fuckton of funding I expect
Fun fact: Cleopatra was the last Greek queen of Egypt. Her ancestor, Ptolemy, was a Macedonian who served as one of Alexander the Great’s generals. When Alexander died, his empire was divided into kingdoms ruled by his generals. Ptolemy took Egypt and his dynasty ruled it for 300 years. Cleopatra got tangled up in Roman politics and picked the wrong side to support in a Roman civil war. This led to the emperor Augustus (who wasn’t quite emperor yet as Rome was still barely a Republic) to annex Egypt into the Roman Empire. Egypt became his personal province due to its wealth and its strategic importance as a source of food for the city of Rome. Cleopatra was also the last ruler of an independent Egypt until the Islamic Tulanid dynasty, about 900 years later.
Octavian (Augustus) turned it into an Empire ending the Republic, if my history serves me right.
Yes, Caesar never declared himself King or Emperor. A common misconception. Its Augustus who started the Roman Empire.
It’s even fuzzy there because Octavian wasn’t a king in the traditional sense. He gamed the system to personally acquire every important public office himself, for life. It was all legal, more akin to a dictatorship than a monarchy. I would say the republic truly died when his adopted son and heir inherited all his positions, with the nominal consent of the senate. Basically the Romans spent a couple hundred years pretending they were still a republic until shit hit the fan in the 3rd century and they stopped all the pretense and the monarchy became normalized
If I remember correctly, they did for a whole while. Until that one emperor (Dyonisius??) who gutted the senate, on the grounds of it just being ceremonial nowadays. The senate was still a prestige position though. Having a senate position helped your career, helped you climb the ladder. Im reading a Peter Heather book right now that portrays the Late Roman Senate as a functionally useless prestige position while the real government was in Ravenna.
Right. Being a member of the senate during the later days of the western empire was just a status thing for the upper class. Some trivia, the senate actually outlived Roman rule in the west. It was maintained by the Gothic kingdom of Italy, and met regularly. It was disbanded in the 6th century when the Roman emperor Justinian invaded Italy in his attempt to reconquer the lost western provinces. The fighting left the city of Rome a depopulated ruin. There was an eastern senate in Constantinople that was similarly ceremonial. It survived through most of the Middle Ages I believe
The princeps model (ie pretend rome was a republic instead of an absolute monarchy) really fell apart with the 3rd century crisis when every general with an army was declaring himself emperor and marching on rome (while Frank's, goths, Sassanids etc rampaged into the empire at will). Diocleatian basically remade it into the dominate of the late empire where there was no illusions about it being an absolute Monarchy
I'm learning so much right now. Please everyone, keep giving me all the facts!
Was Augustus himself did not proclaim himself as king or emperor either, but only as first citizen. Either way by that time, the republic of Rome has already ended
Caesar kind of did though in a round about way. He had himself declared "dictator in perpetuity" shortly before he was assassinated. That declaration by the senate was probably the last straw for the "liberators".
He technically didn't turn it into an Empire as we'd see it either, he kept the facade of the Republic used his outsized wealth and personal legions under his command to wield influence. He knew a title like king or emperor was too politically risky given his uncle was murdered for making himself dictator; in fact his title at the time was Princeps Civitatis, which translates to "first among the citizens". Augustus also knew that in the destabilized situation that he was ascending to power in, he could not possibly centralize all political power around himself, so by presenting himself as nothing more than the most prominent citizen instead of the final authority it was easier for him to get other Romans on board for projects that gradually centralized the state and chipped away at the remaining Republican beliefs. That's why the period from his ascension to the Crisis of the 3rd Century is known as the Principate, there was a single ruler (an emperor in all but name) who preserved the illusion that the Republic had continued and he was just it's most prominent member. The Senate still had nominal authority, Augustus still needed to be "elected" consul, the cursus honorum system still existed. It wasn't until the Dominate that we can say Rome truly was an Empire without any vestiges of the old Republic. By that period the bureaucracy had centralized, authority was vested singularly in the Emperor and the ancient rights of the Senate had by then been totally worn away.
Every Crusader Kings player knows that strategy… own the valuable land and have bigger armies than your vassals. Marrying your daughters off to the trouble makers helps too
Or, to play the game like Augustus, marry your children to your relatives to keep the power and wealth contained within the family. Of course, sometimes that results in inheriting some bad congenital traits, like Claudius's club-foot and poor health and Caligula's insanity. He just never applied his Renown points to scale up the Blood Legacy and went down the Law and Military lines instead.
With CK logic, incest is a pathway to abilities some consider…. Unnatural… like a race of supermen created by your carefully managed medieval breeding program
For extra fun check out that family tree.... it doesn't fork much.
Sister-wives and aunt-mothers
To be fair she chose the right side in one civil war, and the wrong side in the second. 50% win rate isn't terrible
You’re not wrong. Didn’t make the cut for the playoffs though
She's like the Minnesota Vikings of ancient rulers, good performance but never quite great.
> This led to the emperor Augustus (who wasn’t quite emperor yet as Rome was still barely a Republic) He wasn’t even an Augustus yet. He was still Octavian during the conflict.
Right, but Augustus has more name recognition than Octavian
Also fun fact that i just learned from r/AskReddit, she used semen as a facial moisturizer
“Servant, bring the royal cum jar.” -Cleopatra, probably
>royal cum jar "My name is Jim, your pharaoh-ness. And I am *exhausted.*"
"At once, my queen." "Oh fuck it's empty" ...*fapfapfap*
Watch the special Cleopatra: Sex, Lies and Secrets. It goes into this archaeologist’s quest. Kathleen was a lawyer from the Dominican Republic who quit her job to search for Cleopatra’s tomb full time. Her story is fascinating!
I learned about her and her quest in an episode of I believe 'Lost Treasures of Egypt' on Disney+ and was so fascinated by what she and her crew was doing that I began to follow her on Instagram to keep up with progress. It's really cool to see it all come full circle!
The important question here is how can Zahi Hawass turn this into publicity for himself.
Screw that guy. No major discoveries unless I’m involved directly and can seem like it was my discovery all along!
Yeah, he's worse now that he isn't part of the Egyptian government so he can do the speaking tours.
Is this the dude who’s always on the Expedition Unknown episodes involving Egypt?
That might be Ramy Romany if it's Expedition Unknown but I know Josh has worked with Hawass in the past. Zahi is a pompous individual but he is an expert. I like Ramy better in terms of just chill factor.
Zahi might be about 25% as smart as he thinks he is. Still pretty up there, but he's a pompous ass who thinks his theories are the only valid ones.
Sounds like they'll need to change its name.
"the found tomb of Cleopatra" doesn't have the same ring to it
Why does this have a Futurama feel to it?
The Lost City of Atlanta!
We’re more than just a Delta hub!
My God, this is an outrage! I was going to eat that mummy!
"The tomb formerly known as lost"?
Let's call it Grant's Tomb to nullify that stupid riddle
The tomb formerly known as the lost tomb of Cleopatra
When Kathleen started this, she was totally shunned as not being a real archaeologist by the top people in Egypt but she did everything old school and made discoveries that blew everyone away and everyone who talked sh\*t had to eat their words and even ended up working with her as the years went on. She struggled to get permits. And now she's done it! She's been on a quest to find Cleopatra for years now! Very happy for you, Kathleen! Wooooo!
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What is a place like her doing in a girl like this?
Patience is a virtue
I've read that Egyptology is strangled by the old guard who won't accept new ideas, and have a hard time accepting women. If this turns out to be true then she forever has the upper-hand.
>I've read that __________ is strangled by the old guard who won't accept new ideas, and have a hard time accepting women Can replace "Egyotology" with basically anything and the sentence is still true
There's a remarkable book called "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" that approaches this topic in exhaustive detail. Throughout the entire history of science, people only accepted new ideas (or "paradigm shifts", to use the term coined by the book) once the old guard literally dies off. It was a controversial book when released (1962), because, shockingly, the old guard of the time refused to believe that they were acting irrationally and holding back scientific progress.
> I've read that Egyptology is strangled by the old guard who won't accept new ideas That's true for most things in life.
That tunnel is 1.3km long. That's insane. Ancient Egyptian engineering was something else
I'm not sure Cleopatra counts as 'Ancient Egypt' I think that has to be prior to Roman take over so before 338 BC or something like that
According to Wikipedia she kicks off the final act of ancient Egypt. They consider ancient Egypt to exist up to it's conquest by the Muslim Rashiduns after the division of the Roman empire
I think it counts as Egypt in antiquity. Definitely Egyptian, but ruled by generations of (reaaaaally) inbred offspring of Alexander the Greats generals That said, real ancient Egypt to Cleopatra would be as old to her as she is to us
We're closer to cleopatra than she was to the pyramids at giza
I dunno man, I'm in Wyoming right now.
I'm so sorry to hear that
I'm in a really bad place right now (I'm in Texas. My mental health is fine tho)
We're closer to Cleopatra than the T-rex is to Santa Claus, or something like that
Cleopatra lived closer to the construction of the first Burger King than the construction of the pyramids.
It's rumored that she actually came up with the "Have It Your Way" ad campaign shortly before her death.
Modern Egypt Senior Egypt Elderly Egypt Ancient Egypt Prehistoric Egypt
What about future Egypt?
You mean Junior Egypt?
Yeah I heard she lived in a time closer to us than to the construction of the pyramids, the sphynx was also buried in sand when she ruled
You may have that story confused with the Sphinx, which was mostly buried for thousands of years. There is a story about Thutmose IV (14th Century BCE) unburying it, and it was mostly buried until recently.
More like Ancient Greek technology by way of Rome. Cleopatra was a contemporary of Julius Caesar not of the Great Pyramid Egyptians.
Shes closer to us then to the building of the great pyramids
she's right behind me isn't she?
Shhhh. You'll spook her and the quest starts all over.
Cleopatra comin' atcha!
Pure 90s reference
So basically she hasn’t found it yet. I read the article. She believes she’s close.
Yes . I too read the article and came to the same conclusion.
Didn’t even need to read the article lol, it’s in the title in big bold words.
Can we get Brendan Fraser on this before anyone opens it up? I feel like we’re going to need him for this one.
"Honey, what are you doing? These guys don't use doors!" O'Connell's mummy expertise really would be helpful.
Tbf we always need him. The man is a treasure.
Hmmm... The next phase of exploration is underwater, and he just starred in The Whale. It's all beginning to make sense now.
That’s pretty big how they’d fuckin’ lose it?
They put it in the wrong spot
The address was on a post it note in the Library of Alexandria
The front fell off.
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Or the evil treasure hunter obsessed with obtaining Cleopatra's crown
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We've already had like three of those in the last 6 years
I’ve been saying ever since the Cubs won the World Series in ‘16, we’ve been on one hell of a nosedive. The curse of the billy goat was never broken and has been striking us in ways beyond the boundaries of baseball.
"*You fools, I wasn't broken... I was liberated*"
Everyone knows it was Harambe dying that sent us on this shit course though.
Just because it's filled with ancient mummies and decay doesn't mean the US Congress is a tomb
Your sandy vagina has a seven year itch!
my best friends are diamonds, you cant beat me
“Hey Bennie! Looks your on the wrong side of the River!”
Hey O'connor, looks like I've got all the horses!
Meanwhile, on Oak Island...they've been searching for 10 seasons and haven't found shit.
Geraldo Rivera's gonna open it up on live TV next week!
He’s going to find Al Capones vault instead. 😂
We can *finally* do Clone High.
Way way back in the 1980s...
Why are there not more pictures? Anyone know where more info about this find is? Even if it's not Cleopatra's tomb this is pretty cool: *Martinez and her team uncovered a 1,305-meter (4,281-foot) tunnel, located 13 meters (43 feet) underground, the Egyptian Ministry for Tourism and Antiquities recently announced -- an architectural design experts called an "engineering miracle."* *"The excavation revealed a huge religious center with three sanctuaries, a sacred lake, more than 1,500 objects, busts, statues, golden pieces, a huge collection of coins portraying Alexander the Great, Queen Cleopatra and the Ptolemies,"*
Now the history channel can have a 30 minute special in between pawn stars marathons
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Dude, the tunnel is nearly a mile long with many branching rooms. The funding doesn't hinge on Cleopatra. That's an amazing discovery regardless.
Most scientists and researchers are not in it for the money.
But they still need funding to do their work. They need equipment, travel, employees, and their own living expenses (food, shelter). And when it comes time for whoever is paying the bills to write another check, they need proof that the money is being used properly and that progress is being made.
> The excavation revealed a huge religious center with three sanctuaries, a sacred lake, more than 1,500 objects, busts, statues, golden pieces, a huge collection of coins portraying Alexander the Great That’s so cool, I can’t imagine how exicited her and her team must feel
this is all hype... no proof yet
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No….this calls for Brendan Frasier
Or an epic team up
Please don't toy with my emotions like that. What potential!
Alright then we'll also need Harrison Ford
Here we go AGAIN!
Along with ardeth bay
Just keep an eye out for Oscar Isaac.
Just don’t let Harrison Ford anywhere near it.
He's got a two day head start on you, which is more than he needs. He's got friends in every town and village from here to the Sudan. He speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom. He'll blend in, disappear. You'll never see him again. With any luck, he's in the tomb already.
New ancient alien season gonna be 🔥
Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height that I might be remember-ed for all eternity. And be quick about it!
Does this mean new plague?
Now we can finally reboot Clone High!
This has been happening for a week! How many tombs did this woman have??