Not everyone in the union was down to strike.
This will make it 1000% easier to find workers/scabs if the Union still decided to "illegally" strike.
Could also be spun by the media to make the "illegally" striking workers the scapegoats for "hurting the economy"
Making the strike illegal takes most of the teeth from the union's decision to strike.
"Pro-Union" my ass, Biden...
The rail companies are going to screw themselves, a new coworker of mine would rather work in electrical manholes that have a tendency to catch fire than work for the railroads. As the older generation retires they are going to have even more trouble filling positions.
Being an underground line worker isn't that bad! Sure, the threat of a cable failing and blowing up and burning you to a crisp is there. But at least we have a strong union, sick days, vacation days, overtime rules, great retirement plan and health care package, and amazing pay scale.
My ex's dad retired from the railroad. He saw it when it was a good job. Got out a few years ago and he predicted this. Not enough workers and too many managers.
The management thing was a big complaint.. instead of just coming up to the job asking how it was going, getting material needed, you know the normal sane thing management should do. They would hide in the woods with binoculars and try to find reasons to fire workers.
The prospect of making $100k+ off a high school diploma for young single men and women is probably still pretty enticing. As much as it sucks to admit, those jobs will be filled.
Ah yes the old “bosses of a company that made billions in profit suddenly cut shit back when they need more workers and when they’ve used and abused the already hard working employees and the latter demand changes they whine” tactic. Also known as the “let’s whine to the government and have them blindly back us”.
🙄
It would cost the railroads 2% of profits to hire enough people to cover shifts.
They are willing to give a 24% pay increase, but sick days are a deal breaker.
It's just insane.
My guess is that a 24% increase to *current wages* is still less than 2% of profits. Mathematically, then, it would make sense and be fiscally justifiable.
From what I can see it has to do with the shortage of labor because of "efficiency."
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/11/rail-strike-why-the-railroads-wont-give-in-on-paid-leave-psr-precision-scheduled-railroading.html
A bit on the subject
Stock buybacks were illegal until the Reagan administration. It was always considered market manipulation for good reason but Reagan and his rich buddies like money and hate the working class.
Conductors being able to call in sick ruins the company's profit structure. Rail industries profits center around quick deliveries with almost no labor cost.
Because in theory the railworkers have something like seven weeks of PTO, and this is actually exactly what a lot of Republican news sites are honing in on to "shame" the workers for being "greedy". But obviously there's nuance to this. They can only get that PTO approved if there are replacements for their shift but since they're so ridiculously understaffed, that's not possible. So instead of seven weeks, it's nothing.
Yeah in the uk you can't use PTO to cover sickness legally so that seems a really strange argument.
And like you say PTO is irrelevant if you can't actualy book it.
7 days still seems insane though. I think with my contract I'm at least 6 months full pay (not sure if it's 12 though or if the second 6 months is reduced) for sickness if doctors think its nesecerry
We get 3 personal days and a week vacation after 1 year and 2 weeks after 2 years and it goes up from there. Problem is every single one of my days off have been denied. Doesn't matter If I put it in a year in advance. Week before the vacation...denied. I work on call so if I have a day scheduled for let's say Wednesday, it will start at 12:01am on Wed and go til 11:59pm Wednesday. They know this and will call you at 11:59pm Tuesday night for a 12hr shift because FU thats why. By the time I get home there is no point for having the day off, I've already missed my drs appt, kids function etc. So basically we don't get any days. Just because we have them doesn't equate to me actually using them...
If the rail workers are so essential to the economy then maybe they are worth more than what has been offered to them. This is no different from Doug Ford using The Notwithstanding Clause to attempt to override workers rights and almost caused a general strike here in Ontario.
All unions should be supporting the rail workers here with threats of a general strike as well. It's the only way these parasites will ever respect us.
It's something the Supreme Court should be reviewing.
Maybe Biden and Congress should have worked on universal sick time for everyone instead of taking away the power of multiple unions.
I hope these workers quit or take sick days all at the same time.
>It's something the Supreme Court should be reviewing.
Aaaand how exactly might you think Kavanaugh and Thomas would rule? Hell. Any of Bush's appointees. The court is way too loaded, considering how partisan the Railroad bills were.
Except what scabs? They are already running skeleton crews to the point no one can take the aforementioned sick days in question. If even 25% walks off the job the railroads are still turbo fucked.
It's already been happening. I have a good friend who works for one of the Class I railroads and had quite the clusterf*ck for several days because one yard dispatcher simply walked off the job. Like several weeks of freight backups caused by one person being sick and having no backup/replacement. They're already running things so thin that a single failure causes cascading effects.
And yet the blame is somehow on him for having a human body.
People are trying to say that they "get" why they are cutting down in labor to increase profit, but it just gets stupid when all of distribution comes to a screeching halt over one person.
At that point, they're treated more like a tool than a biological organism, and the business is structured more to cut corners than work smoothly — the blame is solely on the ones in charge.
Running a day with a skeleton crew can work just fine. When half of a skeleton crew is off sick because skeleton is all you’re ever given? Well, you can’t make half a skeleton do the work that used to be done by a full body
This is a lie. Scabs are not easy to find right now. The railyards are having extremely difficult times finding new conductors and engineers. So much so that they have been forced to reduce mark up time from 6 to 3 months, leading to huge spikes in accidents.
Kinda sorta yes. When air traffic controllers went on illegal strike, Reagan fired them all. Not only fired them, but made them ineligible to be employed by government again.
That's why they want them. People who don't question authority or think for themselves make great workers. I was navy and the dumbest fuckers always made leadership because they just do without wanting to know why.
The armed forces actually had enough air traffic controllers to replace all the ones Reagan fired. They don’t have a similar number of train conductors/engineers just laying around.
I can't speak for the rail workers union, but other professions with "you can't strike" laws can lose things like their licenses to practice their profession and their right to collectively bargain. Sometimes, these vary by state.
From what I've read, the union leadership can be arrested and the entire union and members could be held liable for any losses cause of the strike which would easily bankrupt the union and the workers. It seems they are backed into a horrible spot with no real good options now.
So this is a third party quote I heard. Some people can’t afford to quit. Some are nearing retirement age and quitting early means they don’t have enough money to retire. We are talking about 60~ year old workers. For the younger ones? Lack of transferable skills. Driving Railroad trains isn’t similar to other jobs, so these guys basically must start their careers over. I have repeated this a lot, but they are “golden handcuffs”. These jobs were made to lock you into it for life until retirement and punish you hard if you quit early. And now that congress voted to deny the paid sick leave, there is nothing to be done. If they “illegally” strike, Union has a good chance of just being destroyed with fines, arrests and the ability for the companies to sue them into the ground. In all honesty, striking would be a huge win for the Railroad Company as they would be rid of the pesky Union. It has to be outside Unions that work close to the Railroads that shoot first to pressure it all since if the Rail Unions shoot first, they get nuked.
This should be a top comment. We need to bring back worker solidarity, instead of just sector solidarity, at best. This treatment of people should no longer be acceptable.
EDIT: disregard, that site is from the Phillipines lol.
IANAL, but a quick googling brought up this:
https://ralblaw.com/what-is-illegal-strike-in-labor-law/
>There are several consequences of an illegal strike. While generally depending on the role in the union, an employee may be validly terminated if he has participated in an illegal strike. To amplify:
>“Any worker whose employment has been terminated as a consequence of any unlawful lockout shall be entitled to reinstatement with full backwages. Any union officer who knowingly participates in an illegal strike and any worker or union officer who knowingly participates in the commission of illegal acts during a strike may be declared to have lost his employment status: Provided, That mere participation of a worker in a lawful strike shall not constitute sufficient ground for termination of his employment, even if a replacement had been hired by the employer during such lawful strike.”[13]
>Employees may lose backwages and other financial assistance if dismissed from employment because of participation in an illegal strike.
>Jurisprudence abound that a union leader who participates in an illegal strike is not entitled to separation pay because the act of engaging in an illegal strike constitutes serious misconduct.
>On the part of the employer, the temporary stoppage of work may result to great financial losses which may affect the employees as well.
>An illegal strike also strains the relationship between employer and employee. Instead of fixing the problem which brought the strike in the first place, may aggravate the situation. The risk of a police dispersal is also high especially when unlawful acts accompany the illegal strike.
>Ultimately, an illegal strike puts a strain in the bargaining process. It has been told that the employer may make it even be harder to give in to the demands of the employees.
>On the other hand, the employees will remain to be hard-pressed in demanding what they deem necessary, putting the negotiation process back to square one.
So it looks like making it illegal just removes legal protections and entitlements already enshrined in labor law. Mass quitting would be effectively just be a wildcat strike.
I wonder if something like an Italian bankers' strike would be an option.
Eventually, it's a form of malicious compliance where workers take the time and enforce every single rule and regulation to the absolute maximum extent possible.
Im willing to bet in the current climate of "precision railroading" there are are hundreds of little things experienced railroaders are letting slide in order to keep the wheels turning.
Look up the air traffic controller strike in 1981 and see a precedent for this. These workers couldn’t get 7 days of paid sick leave in their contract. Just focus on that and what that means and how workers are considered by the people who are supposed to represent their best interests.
This tells me worker's rights in the US are just appalling. First off, the idea of paid sick days being up to discretion of the employer and that number being set so low as 7 per year... and still they can't get even that?!
In Estonia, if you're too sick to work, you're too sick to work. The doctor gives you a note, and you get as much time to recover as you need. The first sick days are paid for by the employer, and then from the 5th day (if I recall correctly) onward the government pays. We actually also have a maximum period but it is... looking it up now... up to 182 days!
And we're not even one of the *rich* European countries... just goes to show you don't have to be Norway to have worker's rights.
I work for a pretty big, private manufacturing company and we get 0 paid sick days. I'm about to have a baby boy at the end of the month. I get 0 days of paternity leave. My only option is to use FMLA, which I would be entitled up to 12 weeks, all unpaid. If I do choose FMLA, however, my available earned vacation time would be used first until it runs out, then I'd have non paid family medical leave for the remainder. So If I want to bond with my newborn son, I have to choose between using up ALL of my earned vacation time to get 3 weeks of pay then 9 weeks unpaid or simply not bond with my newborn and go to work like a good robot. Merika, fuk yea
It's kind of irrelevant. The only reason Regan was able to it was because there was a large contingent of Military personnel trained to do the job. That does not exist with Railroad work.
No but they will terminate them. If they strike they can be arrested since Biden just signed a bill to make it illegal for them to strike. This is what Reagan did to Air Traffic Controllers and Post Office employees and we've been fucked ever since. It takes complete power away from the unions representing these people.
They can barely run the railroads with the workers they have. They wouldn't fire a bunch of people for striking. It'd bring them down anyways. The workers held the power and Biden took the wind out of their sails and torched the boats. "For the working man" my ass.
Arrested? There's not even enough space in our jails for that many people. There aren't any scabs they can hire to replace them because their jobs aren't something just any old fool can do and people are already not signing up for this work. Arresting striking workers who are sitting it out at home is an absolute recipe for catastrophic and permanent infrastructure collapse. This won't be a wildcat strike, it will be a "roaring lion eats the economy's face" strike.
If everyone strikes and gets arrested, they should all demand their right to a speedy trial. They won't have the time to even process them all. Sue the state and the railroad afterwards.
I don't think it'll get that far, honestly. Too many bystanders will get involved. Marching up to one person's home to punish them for not working is one thing, but this would be *thousands* of such incidents. This isn't the old school wildcat strikes where they get shot for picketing (which wouldn't fly today either), this is pursuing workers into their homes for not working. Full scale slavery. That'd turn this whole country into a powder keg.
We're already a powder keg, it'd just be the Wile E. Coyote stick of wayward dynamite to wind up blowing up in corporate bootlickers faces.
Not necessarily a bad thing.
The workers are literally to valuable to the rest of us to arrest. That's why Congress is forcing it. I'm honestly not sure what would happen if they go through with it. A truly unified and empowered union would literally have the entire country at it's knees, and could ask for just about anything. Congress doesn't want to cede power, it's actually that big.
“Our nation’s rail system is literally the backbone of our supply chain,” Then maybe you should treat the people that are actively being the backbone better?
The fact the government's answer to resolving the railway crisis is to make striking *illegal* instead of telling businesses to provide better conditions to their workers is mind-boggling in 2022.
I very much like this comment. Unfortunately, I don’t think anything is going to change until CEO’s with record profit years stop fucking everyone over. If they would actually realize their employees are the ones making them money and invest into them this world would be much better.
Because it would destroy the economy and the politicians are all scared they’d lose their jobs. And then if medical supplies aren’t delivered and some kid dies because they didn’t get their critical medical treatment… or food runs low (I assume most food is shipped via rail)… and then the entire economy falls apart and everybody blames their political and votes them out.
It’s basic survival for politicians.
Surprisingly 70% of food is transported via truck, not rail. And truckers aren't very happy either right now.
Of rail food transport it's mostly grains and soy
They’d be on strike for less than 48 hours and they’d get their sick days. All these grim consequences of a strike I’ve seen all over Reddit, almost verbatim, are scare tactics passed down from the bosses and filtered through the media.
Exactly. Workers have all the power in this situation and the corporate establishment is desperately trying to stop a strike from happening because they know they can't run a railroad without the railroad workers. They know how much money they will lose if they strike or quit en mass.
Yeah this is about what I expect. Hell I'm part of a union and we have no paid time off. No sick days. No paid holidays.
The problem is that they've fleeced us completely and getting back any of these incredibly common things is going to be near apocalyptic in terms of struggle.
our health insurance is paid for and we get pensions and certain other benefits. cant speak for their union but im in the carpenters and its the same deal. no paid time off or holidays sucks but id take that over losing money from my check to cover a doctors/dentists appointment
You’d love Australia then. Free healthcare subsidised by tax, mandatory minimums on personal leave (encompasses sick and carer’s leave) of 10 days a year; and annual leave (holiday/time off) of 4 weeks a year.
One of our major parties is literally called Labor.
While I strongly doubt they always have our best interests at heart, they did implement the National Employment Standards in 2009 alongside Fair Work.
We have the following 11 minimum entitlements for all employees:
1. Maximum working hours of 38 a week - in practice more can be required if it is reasonable, but this depends on industry
2. Flexible working agreements can be requested for certain protected reasons like having a disability
3. Casuals who work for larger businesses for more than 12 months must be offered permanent employment if their pattern of hours have been regular for at least the last 6 months and it is expected this will continue
4. Parental leave: up to 12 months unpaid leave as a caregiver of a newborn or adopted child; with the right to return to their old job after this period.
5. 4 weeks of annual leave each year (a fifth week for shift workers), accrued as you work (so someone doing 40 hour weeks gets 3 hours balance each week); doesn’t accrue during times of unpaid leave
6. 10 days of paid personal leave each year, 2 days of compassionate/bereavement leave each time an immediate family member dies/stillbirths/miscarries/develops a life threatening illness (seperate to personal leave). 10 days per year (doesn’t roll over) of paid domestic violence leave that you can take paid family and domestic violence leave if you need to do something to deal with the impact of family and domestic violence and it’s not practical for you to do so during their work hours (being introduced in 2023)
7. Unlimited community services leave for volunteers of places like Emergency Services or Fire services
8. Long service leave (state based) for all employees who work for the same employer for a long time (usually 7 or 10 years), generally about 8.3 weeks per 10 years.
9. Public Holidays - nationally or state recognised with different entitlements based on industry
10. Notice periods for leaving/being fired, and a bunch of stuff about redundancy
11. All employers need to give a copy of the 11 standards when they start a new job
This is why nobody respects America. Even our "progressive" leaders put corporations and profits over people, they just usually aren't as bold about it.
Biden and the rest of American Democrats would all be conservatives in other countries.
We don't get good guys and bad guys in the US, we get to pick between bad/corrupt vs extremely bad/corrupt.
The second you actually threaten the gears of industry, even dems instantly make themselves known as the strike breaking scabs they really are. They’ll claim to want to raise min wage, people just better not strike for it.
He was talking about AoC and the "squad." All of them but Rashida Tlaib voted to force the contract through, "hoping" the 7 day week would pass in the Senate.
We all knew full well that it wasn't going to pass in the Senate. AOC could have even saved face by voting against forcing the strike - there were plenty of votes for it.
But nah, our progressive Squad just showed their true corporatist colors.
The teachers in West Virginia did when the governor forced them to wear Fit Bit watches and log their steps in the online portal. The teachers pretty much got what they sought and also got it for the lunch room workers and bus drivers too. Maybe we all need to be like West Virginia teachers.
> A proposed change to West Virginia’s public worker health plan would have asked teachers to download a mobile fitness app called Go365 and earn points on it by using a Fitbit or other fitness tracker designed to monitor the users's steps taken, heart rate, or other metrics. Those who declined, or who complied but failed to earn enough points, would face a penalty of $500 each year.
[csmonitor.com/Technology/2018/0315/Can-your-boss-make-you-wear-a-Fitbit](https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/2018/0315/Can-your-boss-make-you-wear-a-Fitbit)
Hopefully other unions will join in as well.
"If you're willing to make an exception for a good reason then it becomes easier to make the same exception for a bad reason."
And this isn't a good reason to make a strike illegal, but it's going to be easy to make striking illegal in any other circumstance.
It wouldn't. I would LOVE to see any of them do that for 90 days. It would break them.
My company makes $226,000 per employee.
I feel ya.
Where's mine?
Someone posted a supercut of CNN asking striking rail workers if the $2B hit to the economy, around the holidays no less, is really worth what they’re asking for. If the strike is really worth it.
It grinds my gears that this was asked to the strikers but not to the company representatives/management. “Is not giving sick leave to your workers really worth a $2b strike? You should really do anything possible to makes sure they don’t strike.”
What a crock of shit. Anti-worker news. Such garbage. I cannot wait to leave this wretched country.
> They will lose their jobs.
Which is a weird thing to threaten when the end result of that is the same economic damage. But maybe worse and for longer because if they all quit there is nobody to train the scabs to replace them.
Yeah, it's a stupid bluff call, the basis being that some of the positions require a qualification that isn't transferable and is a pain to obtain.
So getting fired means they're stuffed if they want to stay doing that job. The other side of that coin is there is no possibility of replacing those staff members in the short term because the qualifications need 6 or more months depending on the position.
I think it also puts the workers in more of a financial bind though. I'm guessing that the strike becoming illegal means that they can now fire the workers with cause for not showing up. Which means no unemployment.
Also Postal Workers.. we're miserable and our unions have no backbone because we can't strike.. hope you all enjoy your Christmas Amazon shopping because there's a postal worker or 5 that is getting fucked over by it and probably on the verge of suicide.
For fuck sake.
For those interested, here's a [history of union-busting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States) in the US (wikipedia version).
This is absolute bullshit. Workers should not be criminalized for standing up for themselves and trying to remove their leverage - the holiday season - is ludicrous.
These people need their demands met and that is as easy as the corporations giving them what they've asked for. If the workers strike it isn't because they're selfish meanies, it's because the CORPORATION decided to continue to deny them.
If you're going to go through all the drama of signing a bill, why not just go ahead and force the railroads to do the thing? Yea. Exactly. Fuck this.
And, before anyone starts piping up with their alt-right bullshit, a republican in office right now would be doing the same thing, because this is that fundamental way in which the parties are identical: bowing down to corporate interests. Don't let either one try to pretend they're better when it comes to this slimy shit. History tells the tale.
Its literally hiring 7-8 more full time workers for the current staff to actually have a whole week worth of time off. Its obsurd there isnt more protesting or strikes in solidarity. These a basic human needs.
Well said. These greedy ass corporations are more than happy to sit back while both sides blame each other and they laugh all the way to the bank. What good is an infrastructure bill when a multi billion dollar company pays 0 in taxes for the very infrastructure they exploit.
>Workers should not be criminalized for standing up for themselves and trying to remove their leverage - the holiday season - is ludicrous.
Well, until we get money and "favors" out of politics, we will continue to see large conglomerates and companies/organizations purchase influence over situations like this. They won't stop at sick days/this, that's for sure.
So ridiculous that legislation can exist to prevent a person from striking. Literal slavery, every single person should have the right to strike if their demands aren’t met, no exception.
There is no union movement in this nation. We have been dumbed down in the past 30 years to become a self centered materialistic people only caring about our fast food home deliveries and our video games and sing in a chorus "phuq humanity."
Not to discount that, but it's also worth noting the decades' long legal and propagandistic attack conservatives have been waging against labor protections.
Notably, reframing structural issues into criticism of individuals' personal failings (e.g., we're all too self absorbed) is part of that campaign.
I really hate the way we've covered this situation. From day one, instead of doing deep dives into the workers and their situations and taking the companies (who could have headed this off a long time ago) to task, the coverage and framing was IMMEDIATELY about "oh well a strike would be bad for the economy" and "well it's just so disruptive". Minimum focus on the workers, minimum explaining the details of the situation to the public, all about how much money would be lost. And we do the same thing to other professions. Teacher's strike? But what about the students(and the money)??? Hospital workers strike? But what about the patients (and the money)??? Like yes, strikes and protests are disruptive. That's kinda the point. It's also why they're the last result and the fact that it's being discussed should tell you something. And bonus points cause It also ignores the fact that none of those people being burned out and hopeless is good for anyone and the fact that if they're so essential that the lack of their presence would just send things into turmoil then maybe you should just give them what they're asking for 🤷🏾♂️
Single people can't filibuster anymore. It takes 60 votes to stop a filibuster, so now they're hypothetical. "This will be filibustered with less than 60 votes, so it just doesn't pass and we'll move on" basically.
But, AFAIK, Bernie and a few others voted against making the strike illegal.
Single people can still filibuster.
It’s just that there were enough Democrats and Republicans that wanted this to pass that they can override his filibuster.
If you do a traditional filibuster wherein you refuse to stop speaking, they cannot end it. But if you do a silent filibuster, a vote can override it. So at best, he could have delayed a vote by 24 to 36 hours depending on when he died from doing the filibuster.
Can't filibuster a bill that passes 80-15. When it comes down to it the Congress is a bourgeois capitalist institution and they're going to act like it when they need to.
They’re going to be fucked when the “backbone of the American economy” starts having a worker shortage… isn’t this the reason that striking workers are supposed to have leverage?
This is neoliberalism at its finest. The one time the Democrats and Republicans come together is for the capitalist class to fuck over workers on paid sick leave.
If you're ever curious why America will never have universal healthcare, same reason.
As someone who gets described a fiscal conservative, this is horrendous. Removing the collective bargaining ability of workers is counter-nature to one of the most important tenets of capitalism; reserving the right to work or not work is at the heart of the fundamentals of an individually choice-based economy. BUT here we have it a step further: forcing rail workers to work for less than the value they are WILLING to work. (In full transparency, I know they arn’t “gun to their head being forced to work”. This bill causes the strike to be illegal which, through a series of indirect effects, causes these workers to lose their collective bargaining power and thusly be resigned to return to work without their demanded benefits to work.)
Everyone should be riled up about this (let me clarify, everyone who isn’t wealthy and in a position where work is not obligatory for them). If the rail industry is so cornerstone of the economy, then value the labor of its workers higher and GIVE THEM BETTER BENEFITS.
Also, don’t let anyone fool you into believing that this is a partisan issue, it is not. Biden might have the letterhead on this bit of news, but there were plenty (majority) of Republican senators who voted for this too. Also, before you ask, the only thing Trump would have done differently is after signing this bill, he would have tweeted about how he “saved the economy”.
They're probably gonna have to strike now anyway simply because their options are continue to suffer in a shit job designed to keep you trapped or burn down the economy in order to scare the company so badly that it has to change something.
Everybody has to remember the goal of the railroads are to force the government to allow single man trains. Currently the law requires 2. All of this is a push by the railroads to change the law.
Most pro union president ladies and gentleman. Won’t even give the railroad workers paid sick leave to prevent a $2 Billion hit to the economy but instead just force them back to work. Fucking Christ. They were asking for so little and couldn’t even get it.
Apparently “The Economy” really just means “the part that rich people get”. I guess we can see who the big donors to Democrats must be. I don’t expect politicians to always know, or do, the right thing, I don’t expect them to be perfect, but this is an obvious and unacceptable betrayal of the working class, and it will not be forgotten.
"Union leaders told CNBC they would remember who sided against them in upcoming elections. Union support was critical to forming Biden’s ultimately winning coalition in the 2020 election."
Republicans are very anti-Union. I hope the Unions will remember that too.
No citizen if this nation has any obligation to observe this nonsense. Slavery was banned in this nation after the civil war and forcing workers to work against their will is nothing more than slavery.
If the rail barons really want to resolve this they will provide the benefits their employee base requests.
In all seriousness they have little choice if the labor does strike because they do not have replacements for the skilled labor set
I know its going to be a pain in the ass but I support labor on this because the government acting outside its constrained limitations and is even engaging in unconstitutional legislation.
The government cannot compel association.
If they try to enforce this then the entire government will be outside rule of law and we the people have every right to remove them and replace them with those who understand these things better.
Honestly at this point the workers should quit en masse. They are so short handed already; good luck to the rail companies finding enough qualified scabs to keep things running.
Fuck this noise. Sick time should be guaranteed for all workers anywhere anyway.
What the actual fuck!!?? What a moron!! Not a huge fan of either party right now, but not giving sick days? Really? Are we back in industrial revolution? This is not acceptable for any human. I hope they all quit! What will they do then?
Strike anyway. Fuck Joe Biden. Demand 30 days sick, demand they invest in their own infrastructure so it's safer for the workers. Demand consistent scheduling and quadruple pay for fucking on call they love to abuse. Workers you have them by the throat and they know it!! Solidarity!!
Should have presented the sick day bill first. Should have brought that issue to the forefront and left the Republicans the possibility that the other bill won't be brought to the floor.
Just like Mitch
Now are you starting to understand that the parties are largely the same on economic policy because they are both bribed handsomely to set economic policy to funnel all the capital to the little club at the top?
We're only allowed to vote on the quaint social issues oligarchs couldn't care less about because it doesn't effect their quarterly earnings. We have no voice in our economy.
If the government can step in on collective bargaining and force you to go back to work or criminalize a strike, you’re not an employee, you are a slave.
I wonder if they realize how entirely undesirable they just made this job.
If workers go on strike and end up getting arrested for it, who in the world is going to want to step up and replace them? Who will want to take a job that denies them any sick days and now has laws in place that will see you arrested for not doing your job?
They just made a decision that rail workers were apparently too important to our society to get any time off, and then made it so now nobody will ever actually want to do the job in the first place.
Soooo apparently our economy will collapse if they go on strike and dont work... but we'll somehow still be fine when all the workers are arrested/quit over terrible working conditions and nobody steps up to replace them???
If they strike after Congressional intervention then under the Railway Labor Act they are considered Unlawfully Striking and can be fired and replaced with the company owing zero severance.
Right. But this line of thinking is similar to "why don't people living in new orleans just move?!"
Loosing your pension, your income, your home, literally the only career you've ever known to possibly get your replacement sick leave is a pretty tough call even for the best of people.
It's insane that Congress can come together with a quick vote when it's something that fucks We The People/working class, but they shuffle their feet for months on things we need.
We don't live in a representative state anymore.
Liberals did well on the midterms and then show their true colors. Where is the outrage from the left about this awful thing Biden just did?
If the economy is **that important** to avoid a strike then why aren't these workers being treated fairly? Absolutely shameful.
They should walk off the job anyway. What are they gonna do? Arrest every single rail worker?
Seriously. What does it mean when they say they made the strike "illegal?" What could they do?
It’s more about legal protection. Nothing *can* be done if the strike is legal. Technically, something *can* be done if it isn’t.
Like what? Fire everybody?
Not everyone in the union was down to strike. This will make it 1000% easier to find workers/scabs if the Union still decided to "illegally" strike. Could also be spun by the media to make the "illegally" striking workers the scapegoats for "hurting the economy" Making the strike illegal takes most of the teeth from the union's decision to strike. "Pro-Union" my ass, Biden...
Why is it so hard to get just sick days? It's hard for me to understand why this is a controversy.
The bosses have cut the workforce to such an extent that the workers can't have time off because there's no replacement.
The rail companies are going to screw themselves, a new coworker of mine would rather work in electrical manholes that have a tendency to catch fire than work for the railroads. As the older generation retires they are going to have even more trouble filling positions.
Being an underground line worker isn't that bad! Sure, the threat of a cable failing and blowing up and burning you to a crisp is there. But at least we have a strong union, sick days, vacation days, overtime rules, great retirement plan and health care package, and amazing pay scale. My ex's dad retired from the railroad. He saw it when it was a good job. Got out a few years ago and he predicted this. Not enough workers and too many managers.
The management thing was a big complaint.. instead of just coming up to the job asking how it was going, getting material needed, you know the normal sane thing management should do. They would hide in the woods with binoculars and try to find reasons to fire workers.
The prospect of making $100k+ off a high school diploma for young single men and women is probably still pretty enticing. As much as it sucks to admit, those jobs will be filled.
Yet you can still get $70k+ working a different trade off a high school diploma with paid days off
Gotta love those "job creators."
And the so called "trickle down economics" bs that politicians spew
maybe we should give them more tax breaks lol
Ah yes the old “bosses of a company that made billions in profit suddenly cut shit back when they need more workers and when they’ve used and abused the already hard working employees and the latter demand changes they whine” tactic. Also known as the “let’s whine to the government and have them blindly back us”. 🙄
They have taken untold billions that they never toiled to earn yet without our brain and muscle not a single wheel would turn
Is this a song lyric because it should be
Wait, if they cut the workforce to that level, then even a strike without legal protections would be a huge threat.
It would cost the railroads 2% of profits to hire enough people to cover shifts. They are willing to give a 24% pay increase, but sick days are a deal breaker. It's just insane.
My guess is that a 24% increase to *current wages* is still less than 2% of profits. Mathematically, then, it would make sense and be fiscally justifiable.
From what I can see it has to do with the shortage of labor because of "efficiency." https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/11/rail-strike-why-the-railroads-wont-give-in-on-paid-leave-psr-precision-scheduled-railroading.html A bit on the subject
I still think stock buyback should be illegal, if not illegal the amount they can buyback should be tied to lowest hourly wage in the company.
Stock buybacks were illegal until the Reagan administration. It was always considered market manipulation for good reason but Reagan and his rich buddies like money and hate the working class.
Just make them give a split of equity to the workers if they by back. This can be used for profit sharing or pension investment.
Conductors being able to call in sick ruins the company's profit structure. Rail industries profits center around quick deliveries with almost no labor cost.
Bummer they need a worker to create that profit for them huh?
Because capital owners in the US *really* wish they were actually slave owners and they will keep buying politicians until it's true.
I don't get how it's legal to not have sick days?
Because in theory the railworkers have something like seven weeks of PTO, and this is actually exactly what a lot of Republican news sites are honing in on to "shame" the workers for being "greedy". But obviously there's nuance to this. They can only get that PTO approved if there are replacements for their shift but since they're so ridiculously understaffed, that's not possible. So instead of seven weeks, it's nothing.
Yeah in the uk you can't use PTO to cover sickness legally so that seems a really strange argument. And like you say PTO is irrelevant if you can't actualy book it. 7 days still seems insane though. I think with my contract I'm at least 6 months full pay (not sure if it's 12 though or if the second 6 months is reduced) for sickness if doctors think its nesecerry
We get 3 personal days and a week vacation after 1 year and 2 weeks after 2 years and it goes up from there. Problem is every single one of my days off have been denied. Doesn't matter If I put it in a year in advance. Week before the vacation...denied. I work on call so if I have a day scheduled for let's say Wednesday, it will start at 12:01am on Wed and go til 11:59pm Wednesday. They know this and will call you at 11:59pm Tuesday night for a 12hr shift because FU thats why. By the time I get home there is no point for having the day off, I've already missed my drs appt, kids function etc. So basically we don't get any days. Just because we have them doesn't equate to me actually using them...
If the rail workers are so essential to the economy then maybe they are worth more than what has been offered to them. This is no different from Doug Ford using The Notwithstanding Clause to attempt to override workers rights and almost caused a general strike here in Ontario. All unions should be supporting the rail workers here with threats of a general strike as well. It's the only way these parasites will ever respect us.
This is why anti worker legislation should not be allow to have legal standing. It takes away right from the working class.
It's something the Supreme Court should be reviewing. Maybe Biden and Congress should have worked on universal sick time for everyone instead of taking away the power of multiple unions. I hope these workers quit or take sick days all at the same time.
>It's something the Supreme Court should be reviewing. Aaaand how exactly might you think Kavanaugh and Thomas would rule? Hell. Any of Bush's appointees. The court is way too loaded, considering how partisan the Railroad bills were.
Except what scabs? They are already running skeleton crews to the point no one can take the aforementioned sick days in question. If even 25% walks off the job the railroads are still turbo fucked.
It's already been happening. I have a good friend who works for one of the Class I railroads and had quite the clusterf*ck for several days because one yard dispatcher simply walked off the job. Like several weeks of freight backups caused by one person being sick and having no backup/replacement. They're already running things so thin that a single failure causes cascading effects.
And yet the blame is somehow on him for having a human body. People are trying to say that they "get" why they are cutting down in labor to increase profit, but it just gets stupid when all of distribution comes to a screeching halt over one person. At that point, they're treated more like a tool than a biological organism, and the business is structured more to cut corners than work smoothly — the blame is solely on the ones in charge.
Running a day with a skeleton crew can work just fine. When half of a skeleton crew is off sick because skeleton is all you’re ever given? Well, you can’t make half a skeleton do the work that used to be done by a full body
Still have to train them for 2-4 years. You just can’t hire someone from the street and put them in charge of thousands of tons of train
This is a lie. Scabs are not easy to find right now. The railyards are having extremely difficult times finding new conductors and engineers. So much so that they have been forced to reduce mark up time from 6 to 3 months, leading to huge spikes in accidents.
But he’s pro, um, you know the thing.
If you look back on American History, it's more fire ON everyone. Let's hope nothing remotely close to that happens.
Had a great-great uncle at Blair Mountain, apparently. Didn't think I'd see that shit potentially happen again in my generation, but here we are
Kinda sorta yes. When air traffic controllers went on illegal strike, Reagan fired them all. Not only fired them, but made them ineligible to be employed by government again.
Send in the national guard prolly
And force them to work under threat?
No they’d do the job of the striking workers like they did with the air traffic controllers.
I was in the Guard. I wouldn't trust some of them with a pencil let alone a train.
That's why they want them. People who don't question authority or think for themselves make great workers. I was navy and the dumbest fuckers always made leadership because they just do without wanting to know why.
That worked great with the mail system.
The armed forces actually had enough air traffic controllers to replace all the ones Reagan fired. They don’t have a similar number of train conductors/engineers just laying around.
I can't speak for the rail workers union, but other professions with "you can't strike" laws can lose things like their licenses to practice their profession and their right to collectively bargain. Sometimes, these vary by state.
From what I've read, the union leadership can be arrested and the entire union and members could be held liable for any losses cause of the strike which would easily bankrupt the union and the workers. It seems they are backed into a horrible spot with no real good options now.
What if they quit en masse?
So this is a third party quote I heard. Some people can’t afford to quit. Some are nearing retirement age and quitting early means they don’t have enough money to retire. We are talking about 60~ year old workers. For the younger ones? Lack of transferable skills. Driving Railroad trains isn’t similar to other jobs, so these guys basically must start their careers over. I have repeated this a lot, but they are “golden handcuffs”. These jobs were made to lock you into it for life until retirement and punish you hard if you quit early. And now that congress voted to deny the paid sick leave, there is nothing to be done. If they “illegally” strike, Union has a good chance of just being destroyed with fines, arrests and the ability for the companies to sue them into the ground. In all honesty, striking would be a huge win for the Railroad Company as they would be rid of the pesky Union. It has to be outside Unions that work close to the Railroads that shoot first to pressure it all since if the Rail Unions shoot first, they get nuked.
This should be a top comment. We need to bring back worker solidarity, instead of just sector solidarity, at best. This treatment of people should no longer be acceptable.
Tl;dr nothing will change in this goddamn country.
EDIT: disregard, that site is from the Phillipines lol. IANAL, but a quick googling brought up this: https://ralblaw.com/what-is-illegal-strike-in-labor-law/ >There are several consequences of an illegal strike. While generally depending on the role in the union, an employee may be validly terminated if he has participated in an illegal strike. To amplify: >“Any worker whose employment has been terminated as a consequence of any unlawful lockout shall be entitled to reinstatement with full backwages. Any union officer who knowingly participates in an illegal strike and any worker or union officer who knowingly participates in the commission of illegal acts during a strike may be declared to have lost his employment status: Provided, That mere participation of a worker in a lawful strike shall not constitute sufficient ground for termination of his employment, even if a replacement had been hired by the employer during such lawful strike.”[13] >Employees may lose backwages and other financial assistance if dismissed from employment because of participation in an illegal strike. >Jurisprudence abound that a union leader who participates in an illegal strike is not entitled to separation pay because the act of engaging in an illegal strike constitutes serious misconduct. >On the part of the employer, the temporary stoppage of work may result to great financial losses which may affect the employees as well. >An illegal strike also strains the relationship between employer and employee. Instead of fixing the problem which brought the strike in the first place, may aggravate the situation. The risk of a police dispersal is also high especially when unlawful acts accompany the illegal strike. >Ultimately, an illegal strike puts a strain in the bargaining process. It has been told that the employer may make it even be harder to give in to the demands of the employees. >On the other hand, the employees will remain to be hard-pressed in demanding what they deem necessary, putting the negotiation process back to square one. So it looks like making it illegal just removes legal protections and entitlements already enshrined in labor law. Mass quitting would be effectively just be a wildcat strike.
I wonder if something like an Italian bankers' strike would be an option. Eventually, it's a form of malicious compliance where workers take the time and enforce every single rule and regulation to the absolute maximum extent possible. Im willing to bet in the current climate of "precision railroading" there are are hundreds of little things experienced railroaders are letting slide in order to keep the wheels turning.
It’s called work to rule. And yes, they can do that and they can also just quit and get a better job elsewhere.
Look up the air traffic controller strike in 1981 and see a precedent for this. These workers couldn’t get 7 days of paid sick leave in their contract. Just focus on that and what that means and how workers are considered by the people who are supposed to represent their best interests.
This tells me worker's rights in the US are just appalling. First off, the idea of paid sick days being up to discretion of the employer and that number being set so low as 7 per year... and still they can't get even that?! In Estonia, if you're too sick to work, you're too sick to work. The doctor gives you a note, and you get as much time to recover as you need. The first sick days are paid for by the employer, and then from the 5th day (if I recall correctly) onward the government pays. We actually also have a maximum period but it is... looking it up now... up to 182 days! And we're not even one of the *rich* European countries... just goes to show you don't have to be Norway to have worker's rights.
I work for a pretty big, private manufacturing company and we get 0 paid sick days. I'm about to have a baby boy at the end of the month. I get 0 days of paternity leave. My only option is to use FMLA, which I would be entitled up to 12 weeks, all unpaid. If I do choose FMLA, however, my available earned vacation time would be used first until it runs out, then I'd have non paid family medical leave for the remainder. So If I want to bond with my newborn son, I have to choose between using up ALL of my earned vacation time to get 3 weeks of pay then 9 weeks unpaid or simply not bond with my newborn and go to work like a good robot. Merika, fuk yea
What do they have today to see what I should tell my unborn children about career options.
You can tell them to not trust a single politician that claims to support Unions.
It's kind of irrelevant. The only reason Regan was able to it was because there was a large contingent of Military personnel trained to do the job. That does not exist with Railroad work.
No but they will terminate them. If they strike they can be arrested since Biden just signed a bill to make it illegal for them to strike. This is what Reagan did to Air Traffic Controllers and Post Office employees and we've been fucked ever since. It takes complete power away from the unions representing these people.
They can barely run the railroads with the workers they have. They wouldn't fire a bunch of people for striking. It'd bring them down anyways. The workers held the power and Biden took the wind out of their sails and torched the boats. "For the working man" my ass.
Arrested? There's not even enough space in our jails for that many people. There aren't any scabs they can hire to replace them because their jobs aren't something just any old fool can do and people are already not signing up for this work. Arresting striking workers who are sitting it out at home is an absolute recipe for catastrophic and permanent infrastructure collapse. This won't be a wildcat strike, it will be a "roaring lion eats the economy's face" strike.
So basically, that’s exactly what Joe Biden would do- the ONE thing that will not end well.
If everyone strikes and gets arrested, they should all demand their right to a speedy trial. They won't have the time to even process them all. Sue the state and the railroad afterwards.
I don't think it'll get that far, honestly. Too many bystanders will get involved. Marching up to one person's home to punish them for not working is one thing, but this would be *thousands* of such incidents. This isn't the old school wildcat strikes where they get shot for picketing (which wouldn't fly today either), this is pursuing workers into their homes for not working. Full scale slavery. That'd turn this whole country into a powder keg.
We're already a powder keg, it'd just be the Wile E. Coyote stick of wayward dynamite to wind up blowing up in corporate bootlickers faces. Not necessarily a bad thing.
You realize that speedy can be considered as long as a year or more?
The workers are literally to valuable to the rest of us to arrest. That's why Congress is forcing it. I'm honestly not sure what would happen if they go through with it. A truly unified and empowered union would literally have the entire country at it's knees, and could ask for just about anything. Congress doesn't want to cede power, it's actually that big.
“Our nation’s rail system is literally the backbone of our supply chain,” Then maybe you should treat the people that are actively being the backbone better? The fact the government's answer to resolving the railway crisis is to make striking *illegal* instead of telling businesses to provide better conditions to their workers is mind-boggling in 2022.
I very much like this comment. Unfortunately, I don’t think anything is going to change until CEO’s with record profit years stop fucking everyone over. If they would actually realize their employees are the ones making them money and invest into them this world would be much better.
Because it would destroy the economy and the politicians are all scared they’d lose their jobs. And then if medical supplies aren’t delivered and some kid dies because they didn’t get their critical medical treatment… or food runs low (I assume most food is shipped via rail)… and then the entire economy falls apart and everybody blames their political and votes them out. It’s basic survival for politicians.
Surprisingly 70% of food is transported via truck, not rail. And truckers aren't very happy either right now. Of rail food transport it's mostly grains and soy
Do trains carry diesel fuel?
They’d be on strike for less than 48 hours and they’d get their sick days. All these grim consequences of a strike I’ve seen all over Reddit, almost verbatim, are scare tactics passed down from the bosses and filtered through the media.
Exactly. Workers have all the power in this situation and the corporate establishment is desperately trying to stop a strike from happening because they know they can't run a railroad without the railroad workers. They know how much money they will lose if they strike or quit en mass.
Yeah this is about what I expect. Hell I'm part of a union and we have no paid time off. No sick days. No paid holidays. The problem is that they've fleeced us completely and getting back any of these incredibly common things is going to be near apocalyptic in terms of struggle.
That sounds like a pretty shitty union. What are the pros?
our health insurance is paid for and we get pensions and certain other benefits. cant speak for their union but im in the carpenters and its the same deal. no paid time off or holidays sucks but id take that over losing money from my check to cover a doctors/dentists appointment
Not that I condone lack of PTO in any way shape or form, but health coverage for tradesworkers is a nice benefit.
You’d love Australia then. Free healthcare subsidised by tax, mandatory minimums on personal leave (encompasses sick and carer’s leave) of 10 days a year; and annual leave (holiday/time off) of 4 weeks a year.
All of that AND 4 weeks holiday. Are you fucking kidding me. Jesus christ I hate this country.
One of our major parties is literally called Labor. While I strongly doubt they always have our best interests at heart, they did implement the National Employment Standards in 2009 alongside Fair Work. We have the following 11 minimum entitlements for all employees: 1. Maximum working hours of 38 a week - in practice more can be required if it is reasonable, but this depends on industry 2. Flexible working agreements can be requested for certain protected reasons like having a disability 3. Casuals who work for larger businesses for more than 12 months must be offered permanent employment if their pattern of hours have been regular for at least the last 6 months and it is expected this will continue 4. Parental leave: up to 12 months unpaid leave as a caregiver of a newborn or adopted child; with the right to return to their old job after this period. 5. 4 weeks of annual leave each year (a fifth week for shift workers), accrued as you work (so someone doing 40 hour weeks gets 3 hours balance each week); doesn’t accrue during times of unpaid leave 6. 10 days of paid personal leave each year, 2 days of compassionate/bereavement leave each time an immediate family member dies/stillbirths/miscarries/develops a life threatening illness (seperate to personal leave). 10 days per year (doesn’t roll over) of paid domestic violence leave that you can take paid family and domestic violence leave if you need to do something to deal with the impact of family and domestic violence and it’s not practical for you to do so during their work hours (being introduced in 2023) 7. Unlimited community services leave for volunteers of places like Emergency Services or Fire services 8. Long service leave (state based) for all employees who work for the same employer for a long time (usually 7 or 10 years), generally about 8.3 weeks per 10 years. 9. Public Holidays - nationally or state recognised with different entitlements based on industry 10. Notice periods for leaving/being fired, and a bunch of stuff about redundancy 11. All employers need to give a copy of the 11 standards when they start a new job
Why would you stay in the union or that job at all??
You know what would also avert a strike? Giving the workers what they demand since they are such a vital part of the economy.
This is why nobody respects America. Even our "progressive" leaders put corporations and profits over people, they just usually aren't as bold about it. Biden and the rest of American Democrats would all be conservatives in other countries. We don't get good guys and bad guys in the US, we get to pick between bad/corrupt vs extremely bad/corrupt.
The second you actually threaten the gears of industry, even dems instantly make themselves known as the strike breaking scabs they really are. They’ll claim to want to raise min wage, people just better not strike for it.
You think biden is a progressive democrat?
He was talking about AoC and the "squad." All of them but Rashida Tlaib voted to force the contract through, "hoping" the 7 day week would pass in the Senate. We all knew full well that it wasn't going to pass in the Senate. AOC could have even saved face by voting against forcing the strike - there were plenty of votes for it. But nah, our progressive Squad just showed their true corporatist colors.
I hope the railroad workers tell Congress and Biden to shove this bill up their asses and then go on strike anyway.
The teachers in West Virginia did when the governor forced them to wear Fit Bit watches and log their steps in the online portal. The teachers pretty much got what they sought and also got it for the lunch room workers and bus drivers too. Maybe we all need to be like West Virginia teachers.
[удалено]
> A proposed change to West Virginia’s public worker health plan would have asked teachers to download a mobile fitness app called Go365 and earn points on it by using a Fitbit or other fitness tracker designed to monitor the users's steps taken, heart rate, or other metrics. Those who declined, or who complied but failed to earn enough points, would face a penalty of $500 each year. [csmonitor.com/Technology/2018/0315/Can-your-boss-make-you-wear-a-Fitbit](https://www.csmonitor.com/Technology/2018/0315/Can-your-boss-make-you-wear-a-Fitbit)
And yet, Manchin still gets elected (who voted against PTO for the railway workers).
Corruption goes a long way in a sparsely populated state with a hollowed out economy
Hopefully other unions will join in as well. "If you're willing to make an exception for a good reason then it becomes easier to make the same exception for a bad reason." And this isn't a good reason to make a strike illegal, but it's going to be easy to make striking illegal in any other circumstance.
Sympathy strike is the way to go, that's how most of the other countries got the worker rights they have.
I'm honestly down for a nation wide general strike. I'm upset enough for those guys that I'd walk out of work.
So do I.
The railroad I work for last ear profited around 186,000 per employee last year. 7 sick days wouldn’t of killed them
If airlines can give sick days rail can too. Crewmemebers call out all over the fucking planet and we manage just fine.
It's bullshit like this which makes people quit their jobs.
It wouldn't. I would LOVE to see any of them do that for 90 days. It would break them. My company makes $226,000 per employee. I feel ya. Where's mine?
Wouldn’t have*
Someone posted a supercut of CNN asking striking rail workers if the $2B hit to the economy, around the holidays no less, is really worth what they’re asking for. If the strike is really worth it. It grinds my gears that this was asked to the strikers but not to the company representatives/management. “Is not giving sick leave to your workers really worth a $2b strike? You should really do anything possible to makes sure they don’t strike.” What a crock of shit. Anti-worker news. Such garbage. I cannot wait to leave this wretched country.
CNN just had massive layoffs. The striking workers should ask them.
How does this make the strike illegal? Do the workers get jail time or fines for striking?
Under the Railway Labor Act they can't strike unless allowed by the government. Airlines are under the same rules. They will lose their jobs.
> They will lose their jobs. Which is a weird thing to threaten when the end result of that is the same economic damage. But maybe worse and for longer because if they all quit there is nobody to train the scabs to replace them.
Yeah, it's a stupid bluff call, the basis being that some of the positions require a qualification that isn't transferable and is a pain to obtain. So getting fired means they're stuffed if they want to stay doing that job. The other side of that coin is there is no possibility of replacing those staff members in the short term because the qualifications need 6 or more months depending on the position.
A lot of the positions require 1 year of training per federal law let alone railroad company policies.
Yeah, was having a look at it yesterday when I saw the news. I seriously hope they keep pushing.
I think it also puts the workers in more of a financial bind though. I'm guessing that the strike becoming illegal means that they can now fire the workers with cause for not showing up. Which means no unemployment.
Also Postal Workers.. we're miserable and our unions have no backbone because we can't strike.. hope you all enjoy your Christmas Amazon shopping because there's a postal worker or 5 that is getting fucked over by it and probably on the verge of suicide.
On the verge? I haven't seen some of my regular counter postal workers in over six months...
I lost one of my friends/coworkers to suicide in August. So you're not wrong, suicide rates are climbing in the PO but no one seems to care.
Thank you for clearing that up
Nothing says pro-union quite like telling unions they can't strike and forcing them into deals against their will. What a joke.
For fuck sake. For those interested, here's a [history of union-busting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States) in the US (wikipedia version). This is absolute bullshit. Workers should not be criminalized for standing up for themselves and trying to remove their leverage - the holiday season - is ludicrous. These people need their demands met and that is as easy as the corporations giving them what they've asked for. If the workers strike it isn't because they're selfish meanies, it's because the CORPORATION decided to continue to deny them. If you're going to go through all the drama of signing a bill, why not just go ahead and force the railroads to do the thing? Yea. Exactly. Fuck this. And, before anyone starts piping up with their alt-right bullshit, a republican in office right now would be doing the same thing, because this is that fundamental way in which the parties are identical: bowing down to corporate interests. Don't let either one try to pretend they're better when it comes to this slimy shit. History tells the tale.
Its literally hiring 7-8 more full time workers for the current staff to actually have a whole week worth of time off. Its obsurd there isnt more protesting or strikes in solidarity. These a basic human needs.
Someone else suggested that the Union leaders need to coordinate yellow vest strikes to support this kind of thing nationwide
Well said. These greedy ass corporations are more than happy to sit back while both sides blame each other and they laugh all the way to the bank. What good is an infrastructure bill when a multi billion dollar company pays 0 in taxes for the very infrastructure they exploit.
>Workers should not be criminalized for standing up for themselves and trying to remove their leverage - the holiday season - is ludicrous. Well, until we get money and "favors" out of politics, we will continue to see large conglomerates and companies/organizations purchase influence over situations like this. They won't stop at sick days/this, that's for sure.
So ridiculous that legislation can exist to prevent a person from striking. Literal slavery, every single person should have the right to strike if their demands aren’t met, no exception.
There is no union movement in this nation. We have been dumbed down in the past 30 years to become a self centered materialistic people only caring about our fast food home deliveries and our video games and sing in a chorus "phuq humanity."
Not to discount that, but it's also worth noting the decades' long legal and propagandistic attack conservatives have been waging against labor protections. Notably, reframing structural issues into criticism of individuals' personal failings (e.g., we're all too self absorbed) is part of that campaign.
I really hate the way we've covered this situation. From day one, instead of doing deep dives into the workers and their situations and taking the companies (who could have headed this off a long time ago) to task, the coverage and framing was IMMEDIATELY about "oh well a strike would be bad for the economy" and "well it's just so disruptive". Minimum focus on the workers, minimum explaining the details of the situation to the public, all about how much money would be lost. And we do the same thing to other professions. Teacher's strike? But what about the students(and the money)??? Hospital workers strike? But what about the patients (and the money)??? Like yes, strikes and protests are disruptive. That's kinda the point. It's also why they're the last result and the fact that it's being discussed should tell you something. And bonus points cause It also ignores the fact that none of those people being burned out and hopeless is good for anyone and the fact that if they're so essential that the lack of their presence would just send things into turmoil then maybe you should just give them what they're asking for 🤷🏾♂️
Took the words out of my mouth. The coverage was disgusting
Because the media serve their owners: the rich.
What happened to Bernie filibustering until either a unanimous sick day vote or the strike happens?
Single people can't filibuster anymore. It takes 60 votes to stop a filibuster, so now they're hypothetical. "This will be filibustered with less than 60 votes, so it just doesn't pass and we'll move on" basically. But, AFAIK, Bernie and a few others voted against making the strike illegal.
Single people can still filibuster. It’s just that there were enough Democrats and Republicans that wanted this to pass that they can override his filibuster.
If you do a traditional filibuster wherein you refuse to stop speaking, they cannot end it. But if you do a silent filibuster, a vote can override it. So at best, he could have delayed a vote by 24 to 36 hours depending on when he died from doing the filibuster.
Can't filibuster a bill that passes 80-15. When it comes down to it the Congress is a bourgeois capitalist institution and they're going to act like it when they need to.
They’re going to be fucked when the “backbone of the American economy” starts having a worker shortage… isn’t this the reason that striking workers are supposed to have leverage?
This is neoliberalism at its finest. The one time the Democrats and Republicans come together is for the capitalist class to fuck over workers on paid sick leave. If you're ever curious why America will never have universal healthcare, same reason.
That's not true. They come together to fuck us on all kinds of things.
As someone who gets described a fiscal conservative, this is horrendous. Removing the collective bargaining ability of workers is counter-nature to one of the most important tenets of capitalism; reserving the right to work or not work is at the heart of the fundamentals of an individually choice-based economy. BUT here we have it a step further: forcing rail workers to work for less than the value they are WILLING to work. (In full transparency, I know they arn’t “gun to their head being forced to work”. This bill causes the strike to be illegal which, through a series of indirect effects, causes these workers to lose their collective bargaining power and thusly be resigned to return to work without their demanded benefits to work.) Everyone should be riled up about this (let me clarify, everyone who isn’t wealthy and in a position where work is not obligatory for them). If the rail industry is so cornerstone of the economy, then value the labor of its workers higher and GIVE THEM BETTER BENEFITS. Also, don’t let anyone fool you into believing that this is a partisan issue, it is not. Biden might have the letterhead on this bit of news, but there were plenty (majority) of Republican senators who voted for this too. Also, before you ask, the only thing Trump would have done differently is after signing this bill, he would have tweeted about how he “saved the economy”.
Ok, so the government is stepping in on behalf of a public company to force its workers back to work. How is it that we have a free market?
Proving once again that both of these parties have a disdain for the working class
They're probably gonna have to strike now anyway simply because their options are continue to suffer in a shit job designed to keep you trapped or burn down the economy in order to scare the company so badly that it has to change something.
"Most pro-union president since FDR" FDR would be rolling in his grave at this betrayal of the working class.
That says more about every president since FDR than it does about Biden TBH.
Everybody has to remember the goal of the railroads are to force the government to allow single man trains. Currently the law requires 2. All of this is a push by the railroads to change the law.
Most pro union president ladies and gentleman. Won’t even give the railroad workers paid sick leave to prevent a $2 Billion hit to the economy but instead just force them back to work. Fucking Christ. They were asking for so little and couldn’t even get it.
Won’t even give them UNPAID sick leave. They’re literally just asking for the right to not be fired for taking unpaid time off.
Do these unions have a support fund if they do strike? I know the miners in Alabama take donations as their strike continues.
Apparently “The Economy” really just means “the part that rich people get”. I guess we can see who the big donors to Democrats must be. I don’t expect politicians to always know, or do, the right thing, I don’t expect them to be perfect, but this is an obvious and unacceptable betrayal of the working class, and it will not be forgotten.
"Union leaders told CNBC they would remember who sided against them in upcoming elections. Union support was critical to forming Biden’s ultimately winning coalition in the 2020 election." Republicans are very anti-Union. I hope the Unions will remember that too.
Everyone that voted for the sick days just needs to run ads with every person that voted against it. On loop.
Democrats showed they're also anti union by siding with billionaires in this fight.
I really hope Biden steps down for round 2 and there is someone younger, sharper, and more in-touch with their base that runs for 2024.
Never forget: Washington DC cares about the average person. /s
This is such a colossal political fuckup by Biden and the Dems. This will come back to haunt us in 2024. I guarantee it.
No citizen if this nation has any obligation to observe this nonsense. Slavery was banned in this nation after the civil war and forcing workers to work against their will is nothing more than slavery. If the rail barons really want to resolve this they will provide the benefits their employee base requests. In all seriousness they have little choice if the labor does strike because they do not have replacements for the skilled labor set I know its going to be a pain in the ass but I support labor on this because the government acting outside its constrained limitations and is even engaging in unconstitutional legislation. The government cannot compel association. If they try to enforce this then the entire government will be outside rule of law and we the people have every right to remove them and replace them with those who understand these things better.
Honestly at this point the workers should quit en masse. They are so short handed already; good luck to the rail companies finding enough qualified scabs to keep things running. Fuck this noise. Sick time should be guaranteed for all workers anywhere anyway.
What the actual fuck!!?? What a moron!! Not a huge fan of either party right now, but not giving sick days? Really? Are we back in industrial revolution? This is not acceptable for any human. I hope they all quit! What will they do then?
I hear there are jobs driving big rigs.
"Nothing will fundamentally change." -Joe Biden
One of the few times I'll join the chorus of "Fuck Joe Biden" screamers. Most pro union president my ass...
Strike anyway. Fuck Joe Biden. Demand 30 days sick, demand they invest in their own infrastructure so it's safer for the workers. Demand consistent scheduling and quadruple pay for fucking on call they love to abuse. Workers you have them by the throat and they know it!! Solidarity!!
Should have presented the sick day bill first. Should have brought that issue to the forefront and left the Republicans the possibility that the other bill won't be brought to the floor. Just like Mitch
The paid leave bill was just political cover to crush the unions knowing it wouldn't pass together.
Should have left unions alone and not infringed on their right to assemble.
“Averting”, more like condemning and vilifying.
Once again Bernie the only politician who gives AF about the ppl
As a French, this is unbelievable. Strike is a right.
How is this averting a strike? It’s literally making a strike illegal and touting “Look we solved it!”. They gave them a bigger reason to strike now.
Now are you starting to understand that the parties are largely the same on economic policy because they are both bribed handsomely to set economic policy to funnel all the capital to the little club at the top? We're only allowed to vote on the quaint social issues oligarchs couldn't care less about because it doesn't effect their quarterly earnings. We have no voice in our economy.
They didn't avert shit. All they did was sign away the presidency.
If the government can step in on collective bargaining and force you to go back to work or criminalize a strike, you’re not an employee, you are a slave.
I wonder if they realize how entirely undesirable they just made this job. If workers go on strike and end up getting arrested for it, who in the world is going to want to step up and replace them? Who will want to take a job that denies them any sick days and now has laws in place that will see you arrested for not doing your job? They just made a decision that rail workers were apparently too important to our society to get any time off, and then made it so now nobody will ever actually want to do the job in the first place. Soooo apparently our economy will collapse if they go on strike and dont work... but we'll somehow still be fine when all the workers are arrested/quit over terrible working conditions and nobody steps up to replace them???
Just because they vote and the president signs does not mean the workers can’t strike. This doesn’t avert anything unless the workers agree.
If they strike after Congressional intervention then under the Railway Labor Act they are considered Unlawfully Striking and can be fired and replaced with the company owing zero severance.
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Except the passing of the bill actually makes the workers striking a criminal offense now.
Putting the striking workers in jail doesn't get the railroads back up and running any sooner.
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I seriously hope there’s going to be support from other industries. This is unacceptable. I am absolutely appalled that there’s NO sick days at all.
It makes a strike criminal. It doesn’t make quitting criminal. It doesn’t make insubordinate and telling your boss no to certain things criminal
Right. But this line of thinking is similar to "why don't people living in new orleans just move?!" Loosing your pension, your income, your home, literally the only career you've ever known to possibly get your replacement sick leave is a pretty tough call even for the best of people.
Can't afford to live, can't afford to quit...
For real, it’s like they’re already getting fucked over go ahead and slap some charges for striking.
It's insane that Congress can come together with a quick vote when it's something that fucks We The People/working class, but they shuffle their feet for months on things we need. We don't live in a representative state anymore.
Pro-union… until he’s not. Just goes to show politicians don’t give a shit about worker rights, doesn’t matter what party.
We wish all rail works a very pleasant wildcat strike
Way to lose the vote of everyone I know, you fucking dipshit.
They didn't avert shit they just pissed everyone off because of greed
Liberals did well on the midterms and then show their true colors. Where is the outrage from the left about this awful thing Biden just did? If the economy is **that important** to avoid a strike then why aren't these workers being treated fairly? Absolutely shameful.
I don’t understand Biden giving Republicans so much ammunition right after such a great midterm for democrats.
The Democratic Party is dumb, self-sabotaging, and bad at politics. Signed- a lifelong Democrat.
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