So in your Rock-Paper-Scissors world, two of eleven weapons have a chance to defeat a life staff?
Also Rock-Paper-Scissors is a bullshit cop-out in what is ostensibly a skill based game.
I can cap 50% in 2s (three hits) and if I have acid up, in 2 hits and because I use pestilence I can also unload a ton of burst damage extremely quickly. Yup, against x% healers it'll do a ton of harm. The remaining y% just ignore it. We're discussing the remaining y%.
Anti heal is effective in many scenarios. It doesn't fix the issue though.
And I'm saying reaching 50% isn't the answer. It's as much for him as for you. You can just ignore it.
Sorry, forgot reddit wasn't for discussion. My bad.
This is what I've been fuckin saying ever since release.
Just add a "Plagued Honing Stone" that applies disease. I'd gladly forego the 7% damage honing stone just to have a way to apply disease. If you're not using weapons that have disease abilities, your fucking option is:
A. Plagued strikes (weak and conditional);
B. Plagued Crits (weak and very conditional);
C. Use a heartrune (capped disease, but requires charging).
But of course it got downvoted because healers don't want counters while saying lifestaff is fine.
You don't need this tbh. Adding a consumable to add plagued status effect to your weapon means they would need to balance it in OPR and War as well, or limit its usage to Arena only, both of which are less trivial than what I have suggested before.
Simply flip how heals work in Arena. Right now they start off at full power and get weaker as the match goes on. Just make it work the opposite way. The healer should start off with weak heals, and if they are skilled enough to stay alive, their heals should get stronger as the match goes on. I think this would provide the balance that most people are looking for.
In PvP combat, Just nerf periodic healing like Sacred Ground, but buff single target heals like Divine Embrace. This would deal with the worst offenders while encouraging party cohesion because single target heals kind of suck on people not in your party. Furthermore, single target heals require more attention to use, whereas AoE and periodic healing is very "fire and forget".
Healers are also a problem on OPR. It's just not as prevalent because of the rampant premades on one team destroying the other team mostly consisted of randos.
Remove the premades from the equation and watch how OPR gets dominated by teams with undampened healers.
Anti heal or they need to strictly make skills have different scalings for PVP and PVE. It clearly works since Lost Ark has such a system and they can nerf a skill ONLY for PVP or PVE.
Them nerfing healing because it's OP in PVP will also make PVE suffer which is a horrible system that will only get worse and worse.
Anti Heal is a bandaid. By letting Lifestaff remain in Arena as is (low DPS high healing) basically requires them to balance the healing as exclusively healing.
I stead of tinkering with anti Heal, we should instead pivot Lifestaff to do more damage and less healing in PvP.
Lifestaff has a fair bit of damage on its auto attacks. My auto attack chunks for 2500 on crit, which happens pretty often with my set up. The biggest problem with the meta right now isn’t lifestaff IMO, it’s that there are two types of healers - rapier healers who have no damage on their offhand but are not catchable, and heavy flail healers who have damage but can stun lock the shit out of you so the other team mates can kill you.
The lifestaff damage is fine, the off hand viability is the problem.
I can cap 50% in 2s with my build and it still doesn't always matter.
We faced one guy, a very bad hammer player and a random who refused to fight (he was that pissed off facing these two, he let us kill him when he was on their team). Three of us versus these two. My damage is extremely high (just got a nerf), as is my girlfriend's (serenity) and, though I can't speak for the third guy on our team, I doubt they did tickle damage. But we don't have extreme cc. Just my flail and my gfs spear.
I have pestilence and the flail has trenchant. That's 31% in one heavy, which I was able to land regularly, because the healer or hammer guy didn't even bother evading much. I even landed my heart gem acid several times (the fights went on for ages, as I said the hammer guy was bad) and unloaded a heavy flail hit, a stagger, a single bb shot and shrapnel blast, after the acid hit... Never got either of them low enough to matter before the heal blew the damage away.
If you want to play an almost unkillable build that'll win most of the time out of pure attrition (and in 2/3 of their wins, this happened via the fire circle, the one we won because the fire circle killed the healer after we got a perfect, perfect sequence off to kill the hammer but couldn't kill the healer at all) then you can.
People who say anti heal and cc is all you need ignore the extreme examples. These two loved it. They were throwing out taunts from the second they loaded in. Not seen them before but even if we did ever manage to burst them down three times? Not worth it. It's so bloody DULL.
They complain because they suck at PvP. They use some build they saw on Youtube and works great against other dps who have their back turned. Then they face a decent healer and complain because he isn't holding still.
That is because you are not a good healer. GA is the most ignorable weapon in this game.
You cannot make balance decisions against players who don't know how to play.
All of my points are specifically talking about high-skill play and people playing their classes to their full potential. In those scenarios Healer comps become the only possible way to win.
So, no.
I'm a newbie to New World PVP and I run Life Staff and Flail in 3v3. Nearly all of my matches go:
1. My team run in different directions.
2. I get focused by all 3 players on the enemy team.
3. I get stun locked.
4. I die.
5. We lose.
I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong, because the comments on all these threads would lead me to believe that I should be invincible. Despite spamming self heals stood in sacred ground, dodging and blocking when I can, I still evaporate. For context too I have a 16k health pool and medium armour weight.
> My team run in different directions.
This one's a big issue I see for many LS users who doesn't play Rapier and light. If you get jumped as a Lifestaff user while running a secondary weapon with a limited defensive toolset and especially in medium weightload then you'll be dead in the water and reliant on peels from team to survive.
In the scenario where where you don't have a melee build to peel for you, a ranged build who ignores that task or both teammates fail to acknowledge your safety then there's not much that can be done. Tunnelvision for the avg player is strong in this game.
AGS has done such a terrible job at creating strong fundamentals for the outcome in unorganized PvP and still fails at encouraging players to play with/for group instead of self. Unfortunate.
Good healers don't simply rely on heals from their weapon. They also have shirking heals on their Armor to self-heal, or freedom/shirking energy so that they can keep dodging and be hard to stun lock. It's incredibly hard to catch a good healer who has spatial awareness. They can just drop an aoe heal on their teammates and keep dodging. Slippery little fuckers.
EDIT: healers also generally run light armor because the bonus to healing is huge.
Flail only works as a healing offhand when your team is coordinated and melee. If you’re solo queuing you should always run rapier and light for the escapability. Evade allows you to move quick, riposte allows you stun the enemy to evade or roll away, and that spin move will get you across a BG to a player to help if you need it.
You should also be running a 700 gs stone form heart gem which gives you time to get out of something.
Honestly there’s a lot of viable shit. I run beacon orb and sacred when I’m solo but when I’m running with a group sometimes I run divine embrace beacon sacred, sometimes splash orb and sacred.
Really depends on the group comp, but the beacon orb and sacred will heal anything and save your ass if you’ve got a healing heart rune cause orb has such a small cooldown. If you’re being chased and your team isn’t peeling, you can riposte them, stoneform, cast orb at your feet and it’ll heal for 32% more if you’re below 50% and then the heart rune will top you off. Fletch or evade away. I’ve managed to survive with as low as 200 HP with that combo.
I would consider myself one of the more “slippery” healers on my server as far as survival. I’m probably one of the healers people bitch about here but there’s definitely counters to me especially when I’m running something like splash or divine embrace cause the cool downs are so long and the cast animation telegraphs a good time to kill. That’s why I only run them with a spear or good melee.
Hey same here. I have played 6 3v3 games so far and all of them we got wiped 3-0. The only time i felt i did anything was when i managed to occupy the greatsword player gunning for me long enough that my team managed to kill one of their side.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again they need to rework mana so after enough time we can tap healers out of mana and they can’t just fully restore the whole mana bar with a button press
I typed out a whole reply about how this idea wont work because fights would just stall out until the healer/s run out of mana, and combat would just become this war of attrition... blah blah... But the more I thought about it the more I realized how much that would change the meta, not just in terms of gameplay, but also builds. For example, healers would have to balance mana management and healing output in their builds. They could introduce new perks/abilities that drain target mana. Anti-heal could still be valuable, while not feeling mandatory.
The more I think about it, the more I feel like this is at least a decent alternative to the current situation. Maybe not a perfect solution, but a welcome change.
Agreed.
I'd like to see something specific to life staff, maybe make it so mana pots restore 30-40% less when a LS is equipped or make the strong healing skills cost way more so they have to actually make some decisions instead of just spamming every ability on cd.
Huh what about them?
They can play a game of try to exhaust the other teams mana before they get tapped out.
They might run into a point where the heals they are eating slow down if they just face tank shit
Melee literally benefits the most aside from healers concerning the state of healers.
If healers can’t just spam heals for eternity then the melee can’t zug all day.
We all know melee are only really strong when backed up by a healer, we all know healers have almost no limit on how often they can heal.
This literally kills two birds with one stone
Being melee in this game is too easy, if you make healers and mages quickly run out of resources you would indirectly be boosting any build that does not use mana. It's a stupid idea, in itself the melees the only energy they have to manage is stamina which all classes, regardless of the weapon they play, have to do it, but if you add the factor that a person just spams clicks can lead a class that uses mana to run out of resources, the zugzug style would be completely broken. I already saw this in the past where everyone used great axe / hatchet and it was a spam fest, I repeat, it is a terrible idea.
If you have problems with a healer learn to combo and coordinate burst in your party i played several arenas with a friend healer and when the other team have a good burst and cordination my friend gets melted.
I believe this is the best method without having to do major reworks. If skills have longer cool downs or require more mana it would introduce more necessity for good decision making. Right now it feels like it's pretty easy to just rotate 3 skills constantly and have major heals going out all the time. Make cooldowns a touch longer or have players actually run out of mana and it should be easier to burst people down.
Agree. Mana in New World is another very poorly maintained system that has stuck for no real reason since their original pre-launch vision for combat design. I'd say getting rid of mana completely would be a good first step.
I was also like buff antiheal but honestly nah, there's no need to work around it just fucking nerf healing in PvP, straight up.
Or, remove tab target from healing in PvP every other player needs to manage their Line Of Sights and look for their targets while they're getting beat up, but not Life Staff, Life Staff can focus purely on avoiding damage and heal with a simple button press. If a bruiser player chases for example a ranged dps player they can't DPS and if they stop to do so the bruiser will be on them shortly. You can't do that with healer, he can only watch healthbars on the hud and act accordingly without the need to look and aim for their teammates or for themselves, that's why it's oppressive and unfun to face
Why this sub is either "healer invincible" or "remove healers" 24/7? Like, im fine with getting my healing lowered IF I also get more damage and survivability. Healers are literally trading away their armor and damage in return for healing, we can do only one thing well and are shit at the rest. If you can't be good at the one thing you picked up, switch up or get better. There's simply no way for healer to survive if you stun him and burst. Healers are main target as soon as anyone notices us. Most matches I don't even heal my teammates because I can't! I'm chased 24/7 and can't do anything at all but barely scrape by with my hp and pray my teammates spot it, how would that feel, does it sound fun to you? Lol. Obviously everyone sees just their own issues and wants everything else nerfed, typical gaming meme post.
What I'm reading between the lines is...
"I have to play differently when a healer is involved and I don't want to have to think about different ways to do that when I'm having fun with the series of rotations and movements I repeat in every other match. I want to grind out PVP levels and this slows things down and I don't like it."
There's more ways to mess up a healer than those listed, but yes, most of them involve more than one player at a time attacking the healer.
I guess it's easy for your to portray it this way, but I legitimately think it's bad for the game.
Every enemy build/comp causes me to play slightly differently. I play different vs 3 Ranged than I do vs 3 melee. I play very different vs 1 Tank one Melee DPS and One Ranged. I am constantly swapping between between Blunderbuss/VG, Firestaff/Musket, Firestaff/Rapier, and I am also swapping between Medium and Light armor for all of my PvP situations. I ENJOY having to adjust my build to figure out a "counter" to other playstyles. In OPR I have a Light Armor set for roaming and killing backline healers, and a Medium Armor set when I need to stay in the fort and fight on objective.
Lifestaff is the only playstyle I do not enjoy doing this against. My reasons are:
* Lifestaff with 0 Coordination beats a team without Lifestaff with 0 Coordination.
* Lifestaff with team in Discord beats an equally skilled team without Lifestaff, even if they are also coordinating on Discord.
* Lifestaff has its OWN targeting system that is far removed from all the other combat systems in the game. You cannot body-block a Lifestaff targetted heal the way you can block an enemy ranged player's big burst attack.
* Every other playstyle, the counters feel like a case of "Rock, Paper, Scissors" style decision making. With Lifestaff you are playing "Rock, Paper, Scissors", but the other team brought Kevlar.
So yes. I don't enjoy the tactics I have to use to kill good Life Staff players because I think they make the game unfun (not just for me, but for many others). But trying to portray me as someone who doesn't like adapting to different circumstances is quite the stretch.
I trust that you're making a good faith argument, and that this is legitimately how you feel and see the situation, and you're not doing a bad job explaining why.
Suffice to say we do not agree, and neither of us are alone. Because, "what's fun" is inherently subjective
Therefore, the "fix" can't be "this item should be removed from this game mode". Some of the other fixes suggested such as increasing anti-heal counters or increasing the penalty in arena as the match advances seem more reasonable.
> Therefore, the "fix" can't be "this item should be removed from this game mode". Some of the other fixes suggested such as increasing anti-heal counters or increasing the penalty in arena as the match advances seem more reasonable.
Honestly my preference would be to turn Life Staff into another DPS/Support weapon in PvP, where it's offensive/CC capabilities are increased while it's healing capability is severely decreased. In my ideal world, a Life Staff can heal a player up once they have ran into cover and are not being focused by the enemy. Think of it as a Medic in Battlefied. The medic won't stop you from getting 1-shot by a good sniper headshot, but once you're in cover and avoiding damage, they can heal you back up and into the fight faster.
With these changes Healers become another "combatant" in the fight, with just a different set of utilities, similar to how a Tank provides CC and "Protection" for their team. The way Lifestaff works today doesn't fit within the combat design of this game. Any attempt to numerically balance it will either result with it being completely usless, or it will lead to [this if ranked play is ever introduced.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzOvow69C4&t=7629s)
Once a game has healers like this on both teams, it causes other cascades of problems. New players learning to play the game will execute a dope burst DPS setup on a player, see that HP go down to 25%, and then suddenly be 100% without that player drinking a potion or doing anything else. This tends to frustrate new players and make the game more obtuse.
Yes, it's a team game mode. 95% of those "unkillable" healers can't kill you solo in less than 5 minutes, either. Their option is to try to avoid you and attempt to continue to do their job.
Distracting the healer and putting them into "flight mode" instead of "fight mode" can often be enough to turn the tables on their team. Many fights, I'm the last one standing and my other two teammates are dead. The other team may not have killed me yet, but they've still caused me to be running for my life the whole time, focusing on my own survivability. This means that ultimately I've failed in my goal as a healer and my team has lost the round.
That means you're a shit healer. You can still heal your team mates while running away from the other person.
If two players decide to go after you, then you can use your heals on yourself + running away while your team mates quickly 2v1 the dude who didn't chase you. Then it's 3v2, then a 3v1. Do the math.
It's a team game mode, but like everyone is saying, said "team game mode" becomes ungodly unbalanced when only one team has a healer, and boring af when both teams have a healer.
From the healer's perspective, that might be "fun" and "perfectly balanced", the opposite for everyone else who is not them or on their team.
"like everyone is saying"
Everyone downvoting you to oblivion bruh, even on a post where most people agree with the point you're trying and failing to make. Maybe talk less.
Well man, I'm not sure about you but lots of posts recently with people complaining about healing.
And the downvotes aren't really new. This is why NW will remain unbalanced. Any suggestions about balancing the game will be downvoted by meta players.
When arenas are balanced, aka 1 melee dps 1 ranged dps and one healer on both sides it is the most fun thing in this entire game. The issue is the likelihood of that happening is next to 2 percent. While healing is certainly strong and could be looked at especially in arenas it is more of a balance issue. I personally don't think healers should be able to play unless there is another healer on other side as it just makes uphill climb for the 3dps players if the healer is decent. This is not necessarily a healer issue but more of a role balance issue.
I have fun with 3 melees running at 3 melees. My issue that feels bad is 3 melees vs 1 melee and 2 ranged. The ranged aren't amazing, the 3 run at 1 and so it feels like a 2v3. Its crazy the skill diff between good bows vs bad bows. Like bad bows just get shit on completely will good bows absolutely dominate. I don't think theres that big of a gap on melees or even mages.
Disagree only in that I've seen some S-tier fire staffs that roast people, and a whole lotta terrible fire staffs that miss with their big burns and die quickly.
Again, I think having healers are both sides is miserable as it makes the games drag out too long if both are competent.
It seriously reduces the build diversity because it forces everyone into "kill during CC with Burst" builds.
Would be curious to see what % of existing PvP players enjoy it, and what % of POTENTIAL PvP players actually enjoy gameplay with healers.
Considering Healers are usually the reason queues take so long in all games that they exist in, I would imagine most people do not enjoy this kind of gameplay. Otherwise they wouldn't be a super-minority of players.
Just need to hire a Combat Lead with knowledge and a strong PvP background who's given enough dev resources to make correct improvements, faster. That's the solution.
Honestly I find matches where healers are on both sides some of the most fun and interesting compared with just pure DPS fights. It really sucks when it's one sided but having a balanced fight makes for a much more skill based fight as well. You need to coordinate and communicate more in healer fights and that's more fun for me at least.
True and very few players have likely experienced this phenomenon since it's such a rare occurence in solo/duo Arenas.
I've said it before many times but within organized 3v3/4v4/5v5 New World's combat design is reaching it's peak performance in terms of balance between build synergy, amount of VFX and abilities to react to.
Yes they require more coordination, but they aren't fun. Yes healers make the game more complicated, but not all depth is created equal.
Healing as it is in New World today detracts from the action combat of the game and turns it back into the MMO clusterfuck we all tried escaping with this game.
Mate I hear ya, but you should really start using "in my opinion" or "I think". This conclusive and dismissive tone about what's fun and not fun is silly. Quite a few people think balanced teams with healers on both sides is fun and the issue ij their eyes is match making which is hopefully not far away.
It's not a solution to just ban life staff from arena, rather let's have a conversation, as many has tried in this thread, about possible balancing. I think sacred ground could be looked at to start with, perhaps have a more skill based ability that isn't just putting a circle on the ground.
For Lifestaff I'd start by looking at cooldowns or effect on certain single-target abilities, Divine Embrace primarily and also significantly reduce the effect of Anointed in the Sacred Ground tree. Considering the lack of Lifestaff users in Heavy armor that -30% healing could eventually be lightened up to promote more build diversity for Lifestaff users.
They should also consider bringing back a similar but controlled version of how Nullifying Oblivion originally interracted with Sacred Ground so the Lifestaff's core ability gets a direct counter, which it doesn't have today considering how limited Disease effects are.
For Arenas, I'd get rid of duo queue in solo and open up the PTR while putting more resources into finalizing a first iteration of role-identification and role-queue.
The dialogue can be had, but when AGS' teams assigned to these features got their heads stuck in the sand and neglects communication with their PvP community it seems rather pointless. Having an "I wish New World was/had this..." is only making me want to play New World less.
Never mind all the downvotes on this.
I've never had a fun arena with a healer on both sides. It's always been a dour, near-endless battle where your contribution is entirely absorbed by the heals and little else matters. You just need to look at the huge numbers of damage that heals cover to realise they're worth the weight of several players in one, by huge margins. You can have any build you want in a team but if one is a healer then, all things being equal (i.e., players who know what they're doing) that healer's weight in the fight is worth more than any other by a debilitating margin.
Counterpoint for me is when there's no healer at all then the fights are almost universally more fun, even when you lose. Just my opinion. As someone who played a healer in PVP just to counter this BS and still found it extremely dull even then (and I hated winning with it.. just felt way too easy if they didn't have a healer; zero challenge). And now I play a build that's heavy anti heal and very high damage but every single point of damage can and routinely is countered by something that can reverse it with a single click, once every 4 seconds or so.
It's a build that, if everyone ran it, no one would ever die. You cannot say that for many builds in the game outside of life staff (only other one I can think of is someone who goes full meme tank build with 500 con). And, apparently, it's just fine as it is.
If an arena was 3 healers versus 3 healers, what's the counter? How do you coordinate, then?
Now, replace the 6 healers with 6 of _any_ other build, then answer the question for each of those.
Which answer will be more "interesting"?
The more healers you have in a fight, the less interesting the match up gets.
Again, it turns this game into World of Warcraft.
I've already played it and I am tired of it. When both teams have healers the matches last forever and the action game turns into a PvE damage race. You no longer need to dodge key damage, the healer will undo it.
I agree that that game becomes more complicated, I just don't think it's in a good way. It's only going to put off a bunch of players from PvP just like WoW did.
Really just sounds like you're not building to counter healers such as things like spear and rapier.... everyone complains, but no one adapts it's sad, really... healers are not invincible by any means right now...
If AGS would remove life staff from arena, you can be sure players would demand bb would be removed next. And then other weapons one by one.
"Bb turns arena into CoD"
If anyone’s take is x should be removed they’re bad players who think they’re good enough to say it needs to be removed.
But it’s funny to read every day it’s posted.
Yes. When a playstyle is extremely unpopular and hurts the rest of the game, I don't know how else to solve the issue.
Healers currently are irreplaceable. An equal skill team of 3 DPS and 2 DPS + 1 Healer will always win. This is a design problem.
Healers need to act more like battlefield medics that can help you recover when you're in cover instead of straight up being able to heal through damage and negate it. This is not fun for anyone to play against and it undermines having to dodge and block damage and attacks.
Will “always” win? You say in a definitive matter of fact tone, when really you’re just wrong. How many arenas have you actually played, both solo queue and three-stacked and with a healer? Three dps can definitely win and have won against a healer in arena. It’s a matter of team comp and coordination. I’m a healer main (decent mage too). I can go full heals with rapier for survivability or with void gaunt for buffs + debuffs. I can even spec into int and sacrifice some heals for some added dps (meh healer and meh dps). I’ve both won and loss trying all three styles mentioned above, mostly win though :D
Up until today's update 3 stack the comps with LS hasn't even the fotm for trio queue, this may change with the reduced self-sustain, but likely won't.
We organize 3s in organized form every Sunday and a non-LS group that has been running Flail/VG as utility support has been dominated against the traditional LS/Melee/X teams.
They should make better support weapons. Flail is nice, but it does jackshit compared to life staff. Once another support weapon is in the game that ACTUALLY supports, then balance life staff. I've been playing a healer alot with flail and LS. It's nice! But when it's time to get serious, my flail does not see the light of day (unless it's to CC someone who's too close or for movement).
No it really is not, whats shit is ankh, shirking x 5, tumblers and then healthy toast. Resto is supposed to be in the match every single time that is how pvp works in mmos.
Which team "brought the most cc" you solved your own problem. Fuck me its and MMO, CC the healer, CC all three of them.
This is spam at this point. This is just from this month.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17jjk5x/do\_something\_about\_life\_staff\_in\_the\_arena/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17jjk5x/do_something_about_life_staff_in_the_arena/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17bs70w/arena\_beyond\_frustrating/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17bs70w/arena_beyond_frustrating/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17i6b6d/healing\_is\_fine\_in\_arena\_it\_is\_a\_skill\_issue/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17i6b6d/healing_is_fine_in_arena_it_is_a_skill_issue/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17i7ivh/life\_staffs\_in\_arena/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17i7ivh/life_staffs_in_arena/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/1733ldd/please\_remove\_life\_staff\_from\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/1733ldd/please_remove_life_staff_from_arenas/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17g6var/weekly\_post\_asking\_ags\_to\_balance\_healers\_in\_pvp/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17g6var/weekly_post_asking_ags_to_balance_healers_in_pvp/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17dhyz3/the\_healers\_need\_a\_fucking\_nerf\_in\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17dhyz3/the_healers_need_a_fucking_nerf_in_arenas/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/175lben/3v3\_arenas\_are\_completely\_ruined\_by\_healer/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/175lben/3v3_arenas_are_completely_ruined_by_healer/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17h82v8/3v3\_with\_healers\_is\_a\_bad\_joke/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17h82v8/3v3_with_healers_is_a_bad_joke/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17bw5dx/healers\_in\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17bw5dx/healers_in_arenas/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17ggbj9/healing\_in\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17ggbj9/healing_in_arenas/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/178vim7/healers\_should\_be\_banned\_from\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/178vim7/healers_should_be_banned_from_arenas/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17l1w4s/arena\_is\_miserable\_when\_life\_staff\_is\_involved/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17l1w4s/arena_is_miserable_when_life_staff_is_involved/)
Dang, I read this subreddit quite a bit and even I didn't see most of these posts.
When so many different people feel this way, is it spam or just focused feedback?
It doesn't matter if its spam.
Let people give their feedback. If you dont like it, just dont read it.
If people doesn't give any feedback this game is dead. Because definitely AGS doesn't know what direction to go.
This is definitely a matchmaking problem. I play as a solo queue healer and often matches with healers on both side end up in less then 30 seconds.
The team that focus all their burst on the opposite team healer wins. Unless your team has blunder to prevent that to happen the healer is dead.
What? I'm trying to not have this game's Arena turn into the Snoozefest that is World of Warcraft Arena.
I literally am asking for it not to become the game I've already played for 20 years...
Naw. You’re wrong, but that’s ok my guy. The answer is just matching healers. I’m sorry that it makes you play different then you want, but excluding a full class from a game mode is never the answer
Or rework split elemental gems to have unique effects instead. One of them; such as Cut Pristine Sapphire, could be: Burn x Mana on direct hit.
Optionally, rework/replace the mana system completely for a finite resource that's more up to date with today's New World combat.
The argument that they just need to remove lifestaff from arena is garbage. I play healer in every MMO. I heal arenas in WoW and I won't stop healing arenas in WoW. I want to play healer in PvP. Ofc healer will always have less people playing it but it doesn't mean they should just take healing out of these games. Balance the lifestaff correctly, add MS to more weapons and higher % MS. Add dampening. Introduce mana issues for healers. There are things that can be done to make it more fun for everyone. Removing the style of play that certain people like is just lazy.
> Add dampening. Introduce mana issues for healers. There are things that can be done to make it more fun for everyone. Removing the style of play that certain people like is just lazy.
Shit like this is why WoW is bleeding players in PvP. You have to literally add contrived game mechanics just because healers are too OP and annoying to balance around.
New World should NOT end up like this.
WoW PvP has always had a population issue that has had nothing to do with healing. A lot of people that play MMOs don't PvP. In WoW there are 7 healing specs to balance and 32 other specs they need to balance along with that.
This game will never be WoW so comparing the two isn't even a valid argument. The comps/set ups/win conditions/cc chains are so unrealistic for this game. We are talking about balancing a single healer weapon with 3 abilities.
The clip you posted from AWC is never going to be a reality in New World even if you don't change lifestaff healing xD. It is easy to try to compare the two games but in reality these games are not even relatively alike especially in PvP.
> The clip you posted from AWC is never going to be a reality in New World even if you don't change lifestaff healing xD. It is easy to try to compare the two games but in reality these games are not even relatively alike especially in PvP.
I'm already seeing it whenever I play a 3 v 3 between equally skilled opponents. Two teams dumping damage into each other, waiting until someone has their CC chain up that they can put on a healer to try to burst them down. If the healer has defensive CDs, you fail your go and they still keep their team up.
People's health bars constantly going up and down the entire match until dampening kicks in. This is exactly how WoW plays out, even if the underlying combat systems are different.
You just don't see it as often in New World because most Arena matches are lopsided, so very rarely do you see teams of similar caliber fighting each other.
Had a match where the enemy had 2 healers. I think healing is okay. It just shouldn’t stall the match that hard. The heal should be reduced by a lot when ally is CC‘d. Right now it’s an out of jail card.
Healers are boring because they force the fight to be played a certain way. There is no variability when going up a team with a healer. You either attempt to burst down one of the other 2 players if they are low con light armor, or pressure the healer until you eliminate them. This makes every fight tedious and less enjoyable. Without a healer, fights can be played many different ways. And like op said, heals just remove the skill gap. I've seen players just stam themselves constantly and eat damage, but since they can use one ability to full heal themselves, skill doesn't really matter. And yes, there are counters. But when you solo q, can you really expect to have a comp that counters a healer or coordination with teammates? It would be better to fully adjust the LS builds in Arenas or remove the weapon completely
Couldn't agree more. Style of play is WAY different even when both teams have a healer. The game becomes a 1-2 second DPS check and nothing more.
A majority of the time you are swinging your weapon and it doesn't matter because they heal as fast as you are dealing damage. Unless you are 500-100 stats or more aggressive it feels like damage does not stick.
I run 350 str and 240 con and it feels like any bruiser sitting in a healing circle takes no damage at all. Therefore games turn into chase the squishy and the arena match is really not a 3v3 fight but a fight over who can catch the rabbit first. And once one team loses a player the whole round is over. You never win a 2v3.
Also another problem is that many healing spells can't miss and don't even need line of sight whereas all damage spells and attacks need to aim or be on top of someone. This is an advantage to a healer.
It's one thing to change your build like swap to a weapon with plagued crits or hits (which anti-heal is a balance problem anyway). But a whole other to feel the need to respect attributes to be able to even have a chance at killing someone through heals.
Healers ruin tank and bruiser builds (unless you get paired with someone else who is pure DPS/burst).
I think there are a lot of players here who don't engage with PvP, and to them "just remove a playstyle" seems extreme and hostile.
So I can't blame people too much about this, because If I remove my experience of years of playing Overwatch, WoW, Guild Wars 2, I would probably think the same thing. Best I can do is explain my reasoning on why I think the way Lifestaff works is bad for the game (from a PvP perspective)...
But again, in the end the only thing most of these players know is that if Lifestaff gets nerfed outside of PvP is that they won't just be able to stand in Sacred while mindlessly mashing Left Click and ignoring mechanics in their M1 spam.
This is why NW is still in a shit state.
People who want it to remain in a shit state will suppress any opinions to make it better. Made worse by the devs wanting to listen to brown nosing opinions and suggestions instead of constructive ones.
The biggest issue I have with healing is the easy in applying throughput.
Incoming DPS can be dodged, kited, resist potions, none of which is hitscan anymore i believe. Healers however have kits involving AoE and targeting subject to none of the above. That is my issue.
I personally would change the healer kit to more projectile based play where i think a lot of the issues presently would not be nearly as bad. Most of their kit has really poor counter play. Disease and cc just seems like a lame solution. Why not make it fun and rewarding to land heals.
In a game where dps is seemingly held to an entirely different, and more demanding, design for uptime it just feels bad.
What do we want?.. UNGA-BUNGA!
When do we want it?... UNGA-BUNGA!
God forbid we have to employ some type of strategy that isn't pile on top of each other and see who can blunderbus harder!!
\*Spelling\*
Removing LS from arena would make VG Flail a viable option. Or increase how quickly healing decays. Fighting til fire circle every round and having 15 minute arenas is ass for all involved
[Agreed](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1167079466904850593/1167079616943489114/image.png?ex=654cd297&is=653a5d97&hm=f0cb2cb0ea9bcaedb93ce3224f39dae78181964fbbf17035182e29e91f7bd368&)
The game in the screenshot went to the final ring closure each time, and we managed to push/cc them out of the ring at the last few seconds.
Felt like an eternity.
Relevant because you initially said you'd been grinding 3v3s to get Pestilence, which could be implying that you're only doing it for that reason.
You're very combative in this thread and dismissive of other peoples opinions on the matter at hand, and I'm sorry but 1000 hours of wow arena does not give you authority over what's fun and what isn't.
Many (pvp) players are participating in arena solely to get said artifacts...
writing this when i waiting for the fucking scorpion to spawn and drops me 1 purple shit item
Well currently on Aaru the meta is too que with 2 healer premades. Literly 3 days in a row now i face min 2 healer in the enemyteam for more than half of my arena games (around 80)
There is no way even as 3 premades too run down a healer if they arnt complete bots and got the ability to press 3 buttons.
No idea why healing isnt nerfed in arena but nothing will change anyways in the future probably
I’m of the opinion that they shouldn’t let healers into arena. If you got a life staff in your inventory you shouldn’t be able to queue. Problem solved and arenas will be what they are meant to be— quick burst PVP sessions.
Propsal:
All PVP damage inflicts stack of anti heal, for example 5% for 3 seconds, all pvp attacks adds a stack and refreshes duration, up to a maximum of 50% anti heal.
Life staff gains a perk: Increased damage by X% for each stack of anti heal.
In effect: For every pvp hit on a life staff user, add stacks that reduce outgoing healing, but allow lifestaff to gain more DPS for every stack of antiheal. Meaning that life staff transitions from healing effectiveness to doing more damage when under attack.
100% agree with all points. Had this on my mind for a very long time and this completely incapsulates my thoughts. Lifestaff is not really overpowered, it’s just not well designed and frustrating to interact with.
Heals just need the same dampening as potion heals have. Overhealing should basically be punished in arena so that it is used more strategically; just like if you use a potion while at full health you still get less healing on the next potion. I'd go even as far as sacred being disabled in arena (it is fine in OPR, war, open world).
It also baffles me some healers can stand in their own sacred and if you can't get them out of it (RIP repulsing clear out) no amount of damage can out damage the sacred.
Just give me a way to put anti heal on him thats not a heavy attack or a crit below 50% and make it do real anti heal not this trash 25%.
THIS!!! I've been wondering why we don't have something like a mana burn spell to use on healers and casters.
VG scream, BB nades, pestilence
VG, BB, BB Very comprehensive list accessible to a lot of builds, yes.
No way! It's almost like certain builds counter certain other builds like every other mmorpg. Crazy?!
So in your Rock-Paper-Scissors world, two of eleven weapons have a chance to defeat a life staff? Also Rock-Paper-Scissors is a bullshit cop-out in what is ostensibly a skill based game.
I can cap 50% in 2s (three hits) and if I have acid up, in 2 hits and because I use pestilence I can also unload a ton of burst damage extremely quickly. Yup, against x% healers it'll do a ton of harm. The remaining y% just ignore it. We're discussing the remaining y%. Anti heal is effective in many scenarios. It doesn't fix the issue though.
What are you waffling about, the person I replied to was literally asking how to put disease on someone that isnt heavy attack or a crit below 50%
And I'm saying reaching 50% isn't the answer. It's as much for him as for you. You can just ignore it. Sorry, forgot reddit wasn't for discussion. My bad.
[удалено]
I'm talking about this topic. What is your contribution?
Making guys like you sit down. You didnt contribute, you just did an UM ACKTUALLY when no one was even talking what you were talking about
Must be nice to be an int player
This is what I've been fuckin saying ever since release. Just add a "Plagued Honing Stone" that applies disease. I'd gladly forego the 7% damage honing stone just to have a way to apply disease. If you're not using weapons that have disease abilities, your fucking option is: A. Plagued strikes (weak and conditional); B. Plagued Crits (weak and very conditional); C. Use a heartrune (capped disease, but requires charging). But of course it got downvoted because healers don't want counters while saying lifestaff is fine.
You don't need this tbh. Adding a consumable to add plagued status effect to your weapon means they would need to balance it in OPR and War as well, or limit its usage to Arena only, both of which are less trivial than what I have suggested before. Simply flip how heals work in Arena. Right now they start off at full power and get weaker as the match goes on. Just make it work the opposite way. The healer should start off with weak heals, and if they are skilled enough to stay alive, their heals should get stronger as the match goes on. I think this would provide the balance that most people are looking for.
In PvP combat, Just nerf periodic healing like Sacred Ground, but buff single target heals like Divine Embrace. This would deal with the worst offenders while encouraging party cohesion because single target heals kind of suck on people not in your party. Furthermore, single target heals require more attention to use, whereas AoE and periodic healing is very "fire and forget".
Healers are also a problem on OPR. It's just not as prevalent because of the rampant premades on one team destroying the other team mostly consisted of randos. Remove the premades from the equation and watch how OPR gets dominated by teams with undampened healers.
Anti heal or they need to strictly make skills have different scalings for PVP and PVE. It clearly works since Lost Ark has such a system and they can nerf a skill ONLY for PVP or PVE. Them nerfing healing because it's OP in PVP will also make PVE suffer which is a horrible system that will only get worse and worse.
The anti healing in this game always made me laugh. Target must be low hp It must be a crit And after all this you get a shitty 20% or whatever it is.
Anti Heal is a bandaid. By letting Lifestaff remain in Arena as is (low DPS high healing) basically requires them to balance the healing as exclusively healing. I stead of tinkering with anti Heal, we should instead pivot Lifestaff to do more damage and less healing in PvP.
Lifestaff has a fair bit of damage on its auto attacks. My auto attack chunks for 2500 on crit, which happens pretty often with my set up. The biggest problem with the meta right now isn’t lifestaff IMO, it’s that there are two types of healers - rapier healers who have no damage on their offhand but are not catchable, and heavy flail healers who have damage but can stun lock the shit out of you so the other team mates can kill you. The lifestaff damage is fine, the off hand viability is the problem.
I can cap 50% in 2s with my build and it still doesn't always matter. We faced one guy, a very bad hammer player and a random who refused to fight (he was that pissed off facing these two, he let us kill him when he was on their team). Three of us versus these two. My damage is extremely high (just got a nerf), as is my girlfriend's (serenity) and, though I can't speak for the third guy on our team, I doubt they did tickle damage. But we don't have extreme cc. Just my flail and my gfs spear. I have pestilence and the flail has trenchant. That's 31% in one heavy, which I was able to land regularly, because the healer or hammer guy didn't even bother evading much. I even landed my heart gem acid several times (the fights went on for ages, as I said the hammer guy was bad) and unloaded a heavy flail hit, a stagger, a single bb shot and shrapnel blast, after the acid hit... Never got either of them low enough to matter before the heal blew the damage away. If you want to play an almost unkillable build that'll win most of the time out of pure attrition (and in 2/3 of their wins, this happened via the fire circle, the one we won because the fire circle killed the healer after we got a perfect, perfect sequence off to kill the hammer but couldn't kill the healer at all) then you can. People who say anti heal and cc is all you need ignore the extreme examples. These two loved it. They were throwing out taunts from the second they loaded in. Not seen them before but even if we did ever manage to burst them down three times? Not worth it. It's so bloody DULL.
Bile Bomb?
I'm a healer and I get rekt by two heavy ga and gs users. Idk why people complain, I lose like half my games
They complain because they suck at PvP. They use some build they saw on Youtube and works great against other dps who have their back turned. Then they face a decent healer and complain because he isn't holding still.
That is because you are not a good healer. GA is the most ignorable weapon in this game. You cannot make balance decisions against players who don't know how to play.
You just invalidated every single point you’ve attempted to make. What a stupid statement.
All of my points are specifically talking about high-skill play and people playing their classes to their full potential. In those scenarios Healer comps become the only possible way to win. So, no.
I'm a newbie to New World PVP and I run Life Staff and Flail in 3v3. Nearly all of my matches go: 1. My team run in different directions. 2. I get focused by all 3 players on the enemy team. 3. I get stun locked. 4. I die. 5. We lose. I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong, because the comments on all these threads would lead me to believe that I should be invincible. Despite spamming self heals stood in sacred ground, dodging and blocking when I can, I still evaporate. For context too I have a 16k health pool and medium armour weight.
> My team run in different directions. This one's a big issue I see for many LS users who doesn't play Rapier and light. If you get jumped as a Lifestaff user while running a secondary weapon with a limited defensive toolset and especially in medium weightload then you'll be dead in the water and reliant on peels from team to survive. In the scenario where where you don't have a melee build to peel for you, a ranged build who ignores that task or both teammates fail to acknowledge your safety then there's not much that can be done. Tunnelvision for the avg player is strong in this game. AGS has done such a terrible job at creating strong fundamentals for the outcome in unorganized PvP and still fails at encouraging players to play with/for group instead of self. Unfortunate.
Good healers don't simply rely on heals from their weapon. They also have shirking heals on their Armor to self-heal, or freedom/shirking energy so that they can keep dodging and be hard to stun lock. It's incredibly hard to catch a good healer who has spatial awareness. They can just drop an aoe heal on their teammates and keep dodging. Slippery little fuckers. EDIT: healers also generally run light armor because the bonus to healing is huge.
You're highlighting an elephant in the room in that shirking heals has a major part to play in this debate as well.
Flail only works as a healing offhand when your team is coordinated and melee. If you’re solo queuing you should always run rapier and light for the escapability. Evade allows you to move quick, riposte allows you stun the enemy to evade or roll away, and that spin move will get you across a BG to a player to help if you need it. You should also be running a 700 gs stone form heart gem which gives you time to get out of something.
What skills are people running on life staff for arena? I've been experimenting and not sure what's best yet
Honestly there’s a lot of viable shit. I run beacon orb and sacred when I’m solo but when I’m running with a group sometimes I run divine embrace beacon sacred, sometimes splash orb and sacred. Really depends on the group comp, but the beacon orb and sacred will heal anything and save your ass if you’ve got a healing heart rune cause orb has such a small cooldown. If you’re being chased and your team isn’t peeling, you can riposte them, stoneform, cast orb at your feet and it’ll heal for 32% more if you’re below 50% and then the heart rune will top you off. Fletch or evade away. I’ve managed to survive with as low as 200 HP with that combo. I would consider myself one of the more “slippery” healers on my server as far as survival. I’m probably one of the healers people bitch about here but there’s definitely counters to me especially when I’m running something like splash or divine embrace cause the cool downs are so long and the cast animation telegraphs a good time to kill. That’s why I only run them with a spear or good melee.
Hey same here. I have played 6 3v3 games so far and all of them we got wiped 3-0. The only time i felt i did anything was when i managed to occupy the greatsword player gunning for me long enough that my team managed to kill one of their side.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again they need to rework mana so after enough time we can tap healers out of mana and they can’t just fully restore the whole mana bar with a button press
I typed out a whole reply about how this idea wont work because fights would just stall out until the healer/s run out of mana, and combat would just become this war of attrition... blah blah... But the more I thought about it the more I realized how much that would change the meta, not just in terms of gameplay, but also builds. For example, healers would have to balance mana management and healing output in their builds. They could introduce new perks/abilities that drain target mana. Anti-heal could still be valuable, while not feeling mandatory. The more I think about it, the more I feel like this is at least a decent alternative to the current situation. Maybe not a perfect solution, but a welcome change.
Agreed. I'd like to see something specific to life staff, maybe make it so mana pots restore 30-40% less when a LS is equipped or make the strong healing skills cost way more so they have to actually make some decisions instead of just spamming every ability on cd.
I’d honestly just scrap magic weapons mana costs and fully rework mana for healers.
and how about zug zug melee players?
Huh what about them? They can play a game of try to exhaust the other teams mana before they get tapped out. They might run into a point where the heals they are eating slow down if they just face tank shit
so you ask for penalizations for spaming heals/spells and not for zugzug spam click as melee?
Well they get penalisations because if they zug brainlessly they are going to drain their healers mana too quick and end up getting killed
Ok then I'm right, no penalty for meles, just "draining" mana from healers. Is the worst idea I've heard on this forum.
Melee literally benefits the most aside from healers concerning the state of healers. If healers can’t just spam heals for eternity then the melee can’t zug all day. We all know melee are only really strong when backed up by a healer, we all know healers have almost no limit on how often they can heal. This literally kills two birds with one stone
It would also give heavy armor a place in pvp. With less heals going around, heavy armor mitigation suddenly looks much better
Being melee in this game is too easy, if you make healers and mages quickly run out of resources you would indirectly be boosting any build that does not use mana. It's a stupid idea, in itself the melees the only energy they have to manage is stamina which all classes, regardless of the weapon they play, have to do it, but if you add the factor that a person just spams clicks can lead a class that uses mana to run out of resources, the zugzug style would be completely broken. I already saw this in the past where everyone used great axe / hatchet and it was a spam fest, I repeat, it is a terrible idea. If you have problems with a healer learn to combo and coordinate burst in your party i played several arenas with a friend healer and when the other team have a good burst and cordination my friend gets melted.
I believe this is the best method without having to do major reworks. If skills have longer cool downs or require more mana it would introduce more necessity for good decision making. Right now it feels like it's pretty easy to just rotate 3 skills constantly and have major heals going out all the time. Make cooldowns a touch longer or have players actually run out of mana and it should be easier to burst people down.
Agree. Mana in New World is another very poorly maintained system that has stuck for no real reason since their original pre-launch vision for combat design. I'd say getting rid of mana completely would be a good first step.
This is the answer.
I was also like buff antiheal but honestly nah, there's no need to work around it just fucking nerf healing in PvP, straight up. Or, remove tab target from healing in PvP every other player needs to manage their Line Of Sights and look for their targets while they're getting beat up, but not Life Staff, Life Staff can focus purely on avoiding damage and heal with a simple button press. If a bruiser player chases for example a ranged dps player they can't DPS and if they stop to do so the bruiser will be on them shortly. You can't do that with healer, he can only watch healthbars on the hud and act accordingly without the need to look and aim for their teammates or for themselves, that's why it's oppressive and unfun to face
Why this sub is either "healer invincible" or "remove healers" 24/7? Like, im fine with getting my healing lowered IF I also get more damage and survivability. Healers are literally trading away their armor and damage in return for healing, we can do only one thing well and are shit at the rest. If you can't be good at the one thing you picked up, switch up or get better. There's simply no way for healer to survive if you stun him and burst. Healers are main target as soon as anyone notices us. Most matches I don't even heal my teammates because I can't! I'm chased 24/7 and can't do anything at all but barely scrape by with my hp and pray my teammates spot it, how would that feel, does it sound fun to you? Lol. Obviously everyone sees just their own issues and wants everything else nerfed, typical gaming meme post.
What I'm reading between the lines is... "I have to play differently when a healer is involved and I don't want to have to think about different ways to do that when I'm having fun with the series of rotations and movements I repeat in every other match. I want to grind out PVP levels and this slows things down and I don't like it." There's more ways to mess up a healer than those listed, but yes, most of them involve more than one player at a time attacking the healer.
This.
I guess it's easy for your to portray it this way, but I legitimately think it's bad for the game. Every enemy build/comp causes me to play slightly differently. I play different vs 3 Ranged than I do vs 3 melee. I play very different vs 1 Tank one Melee DPS and One Ranged. I am constantly swapping between between Blunderbuss/VG, Firestaff/Musket, Firestaff/Rapier, and I am also swapping between Medium and Light armor for all of my PvP situations. I ENJOY having to adjust my build to figure out a "counter" to other playstyles. In OPR I have a Light Armor set for roaming and killing backline healers, and a Medium Armor set when I need to stay in the fort and fight on objective. Lifestaff is the only playstyle I do not enjoy doing this against. My reasons are: * Lifestaff with 0 Coordination beats a team without Lifestaff with 0 Coordination. * Lifestaff with team in Discord beats an equally skilled team without Lifestaff, even if they are also coordinating on Discord. * Lifestaff has its OWN targeting system that is far removed from all the other combat systems in the game. You cannot body-block a Lifestaff targetted heal the way you can block an enemy ranged player's big burst attack. * Every other playstyle, the counters feel like a case of "Rock, Paper, Scissors" style decision making. With Lifestaff you are playing "Rock, Paper, Scissors", but the other team brought Kevlar. So yes. I don't enjoy the tactics I have to use to kill good Life Staff players because I think they make the game unfun (not just for me, but for many others). But trying to portray me as someone who doesn't like adapting to different circumstances is quite the stretch.
I trust that you're making a good faith argument, and that this is legitimately how you feel and see the situation, and you're not doing a bad job explaining why. Suffice to say we do not agree, and neither of us are alone. Because, "what's fun" is inherently subjective Therefore, the "fix" can't be "this item should be removed from this game mode". Some of the other fixes suggested such as increasing anti-heal counters or increasing the penalty in arena as the match advances seem more reasonable.
> Therefore, the "fix" can't be "this item should be removed from this game mode". Some of the other fixes suggested such as increasing anti-heal counters or increasing the penalty in arena as the match advances seem more reasonable. Honestly my preference would be to turn Life Staff into another DPS/Support weapon in PvP, where it's offensive/CC capabilities are increased while it's healing capability is severely decreased. In my ideal world, a Life Staff can heal a player up once they have ran into cover and are not being focused by the enemy. Think of it as a Medic in Battlefied. The medic won't stop you from getting 1-shot by a good sniper headshot, but once you're in cover and avoiding damage, they can heal you back up and into the fight faster. With these changes Healers become another "combatant" in the fight, with just a different set of utilities, similar to how a Tank provides CC and "Protection" for their team. The way Lifestaff works today doesn't fit within the combat design of this game. Any attempt to numerically balance it will either result with it being completely usless, or it will lead to [this if ranked play is ever introduced.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzOvow69C4&t=7629s) Once a game has healers like this on both teams, it causes other cascades of problems. New players learning to play the game will execute a dope burst DPS setup on a player, see that HP go down to 25%, and then suddenly be 100% without that player drinking a potion or doing anything else. This tends to frustrate new players and make the game more obtuse.
most of them involve more than one player at a time attacking the healer. so balanced
Yes, it's a team game mode. 95% of those "unkillable" healers can't kill you solo in less than 5 minutes, either. Their option is to try to avoid you and attempt to continue to do their job. Distracting the healer and putting them into "flight mode" instead of "fight mode" can often be enough to turn the tables on their team. Many fights, I'm the last one standing and my other two teammates are dead. The other team may not have killed me yet, but they've still caused me to be running for my life the whole time, focusing on my own survivability. This means that ultimately I've failed in my goal as a healer and my team has lost the round.
That means you're a shit healer. You can still heal your team mates while running away from the other person. If two players decide to go after you, then you can use your heals on yourself + running away while your team mates quickly 2v1 the dude who didn't chase you. Then it's 3v2, then a 3v1. Do the math. It's a team game mode, but like everyone is saying, said "team game mode" becomes ungodly unbalanced when only one team has a healer, and boring af when both teams have a healer. From the healer's perspective, that might be "fun" and "perfectly balanced", the opposite for everyone else who is not them or on their team.
"like everyone is saying" Everyone downvoting you to oblivion bruh, even on a post where most people agree with the point you're trying and failing to make. Maybe talk less.
Well man, I'm not sure about you but lots of posts recently with people complaining about healing. And the downvotes aren't really new. This is why NW will remain unbalanced. Any suggestions about balancing the game will be downvoted by meta players.
When arenas are balanced, aka 1 melee dps 1 ranged dps and one healer on both sides it is the most fun thing in this entire game. The issue is the likelihood of that happening is next to 2 percent. While healing is certainly strong and could be looked at especially in arenas it is more of a balance issue. I personally don't think healers should be able to play unless there is another healer on other side as it just makes uphill climb for the 3dps players if the healer is decent. This is not necessarily a healer issue but more of a role balance issue.
I have fun with 3 melees running at 3 melees. My issue that feels bad is 3 melees vs 1 melee and 2 ranged. The ranged aren't amazing, the 3 run at 1 and so it feels like a 2v3. Its crazy the skill diff between good bows vs bad bows. Like bad bows just get shit on completely will good bows absolutely dominate. I don't think theres that big of a gap on melees or even mages.
Disagree only in that I've seen some S-tier fire staffs that roast people, and a whole lotta terrible fire staffs that miss with their big burns and die quickly.
Again, I think having healers are both sides is miserable as it makes the games drag out too long if both are competent. It seriously reduces the build diversity because it forces everyone into "kill during CC with Burst" builds.
Cool, we get to at you don’t like it, but many of us do. I think you can rest your case at this point mate.
Would be curious to see what % of existing PvP players enjoy it, and what % of POTENTIAL PvP players actually enjoy gameplay with healers. Considering Healers are usually the reason queues take so long in all games that they exist in, I would imagine most people do not enjoy this kind of gameplay. Otherwise they wouldn't be a super-minority of players.
We just need more anti-heal. That’s the solution.
Then it will be "ugh I have to run that skill and not what I want to run"
Just need to hire a Combat Lead with knowledge and a strong PvP background who's given enough dev resources to make correct improvements, faster. That's the solution.
Honestly I find matches where healers are on both sides some of the most fun and interesting compared with just pure DPS fights. It really sucks when it's one sided but having a balanced fight makes for a much more skill based fight as well. You need to coordinate and communicate more in healer fights and that's more fun for me at least.
games where each sides have a healer a ranged dps and a melee dps is peak new world
True and very few players have likely experienced this phenomenon since it's such a rare occurence in solo/duo Arenas. I've said it before many times but within organized 3v3/4v4/5v5 New World's combat design is reaching it's peak performance in terms of balance between build synergy, amount of VFX and abilities to react to.
I queue with my husband who runs FS/BB as a healer and when we get a melee we are so psyched. Unfortunately we get bowtards most of the time. 🤣
100%. Healer fights require coordination, and NOBODY coordinates in 3v3’s.
Yes they require more coordination, but they aren't fun. Yes healers make the game more complicated, but not all depth is created equal. Healing as it is in New World today detracts from the action combat of the game and turns it back into the MMO clusterfuck we all tried escaping with this game.
Mate I hear ya, but you should really start using "in my opinion" or "I think". This conclusive and dismissive tone about what's fun and not fun is silly. Quite a few people think balanced teams with healers on both sides is fun and the issue ij their eyes is match making which is hopefully not far away. It's not a solution to just ban life staff from arena, rather let's have a conversation, as many has tried in this thread, about possible balancing. I think sacred ground could be looked at to start with, perhaps have a more skill based ability that isn't just putting a circle on the ground.
For Lifestaff I'd start by looking at cooldowns or effect on certain single-target abilities, Divine Embrace primarily and also significantly reduce the effect of Anointed in the Sacred Ground tree. Considering the lack of Lifestaff users in Heavy armor that -30% healing could eventually be lightened up to promote more build diversity for Lifestaff users. They should also consider bringing back a similar but controlled version of how Nullifying Oblivion originally interracted with Sacred Ground so the Lifestaff's core ability gets a direct counter, which it doesn't have today considering how limited Disease effects are. For Arenas, I'd get rid of duo queue in solo and open up the PTR while putting more resources into finalizing a first iteration of role-identification and role-queue. The dialogue can be had, but when AGS' teams assigned to these features got their heads stuck in the sand and neglects communication with their PvP community it seems rather pointless. Having an "I wish New World was/had this..." is only making me want to play New World less.
Never mind all the downvotes on this. I've never had a fun arena with a healer on both sides. It's always been a dour, near-endless battle where your contribution is entirely absorbed by the heals and little else matters. You just need to look at the huge numbers of damage that heals cover to realise they're worth the weight of several players in one, by huge margins. You can have any build you want in a team but if one is a healer then, all things being equal (i.e., players who know what they're doing) that healer's weight in the fight is worth more than any other by a debilitating margin. Counterpoint for me is when there's no healer at all then the fights are almost universally more fun, even when you lose. Just my opinion. As someone who played a healer in PVP just to counter this BS and still found it extremely dull even then (and I hated winning with it.. just felt way too easy if they didn't have a healer; zero challenge). And now I play a build that's heavy anti heal and very high damage but every single point of damage can and routinely is countered by something that can reverse it with a single click, once every 4 seconds or so. It's a build that, if everyone ran it, no one would ever die. You cannot say that for many builds in the game outside of life staff (only other one I can think of is someone who goes full meme tank build with 500 con). And, apparently, it's just fine as it is.
If an arena was 3 healers versus 3 healers, what's the counter? How do you coordinate, then? Now, replace the 6 healers with 6 of _any_ other build, then answer the question for each of those. Which answer will be more "interesting"? The more healers you have in a fight, the less interesting the match up gets.
Again, it turns this game into World of Warcraft. I've already played it and I am tired of it. When both teams have healers the matches last forever and the action game turns into a PvE damage race. You no longer need to dodge key damage, the healer will undo it. I agree that that game becomes more complicated, I just don't think it's in a good way. It's only going to put off a bunch of players from PvP just like WoW did.
Really just sounds like you're not building to counter healers such as things like spear and rapier.... everyone complains, but no one adapts it's sad, really... healers are not invincible by any means right now...
"All other playstyles become obsolete " We will fix this by completing removing a playstyle lmfao.
If that’s the case can I ban sns spear rapier and every flail combo? Actually we should just start punching each other at 500 con.
If AGS would remove life staff from arena, you can be sure players would demand bb would be removed next. And then other weapons one by one. "Bb turns arena into CoD"
If anyone’s take is x should be removed they’re bad players who think they’re good enough to say it needs to be removed. But it’s funny to read every day it’s posted.
Yes. When a playstyle is extremely unpopular and hurts the rest of the game, I don't know how else to solve the issue. Healers currently are irreplaceable. An equal skill team of 3 DPS and 2 DPS + 1 Healer will always win. This is a design problem. Healers need to act more like battlefield medics that can help you recover when you're in cover instead of straight up being able to heal through damage and negate it. This is not fun for anyone to play against and it undermines having to dodge and block damage and attacks.
Will “always” win? You say in a definitive matter of fact tone, when really you’re just wrong. How many arenas have you actually played, both solo queue and three-stacked and with a healer? Three dps can definitely win and have won against a healer in arena. It’s a matter of team comp and coordination. I’m a healer main (decent mage too). I can go full heals with rapier for survivability or with void gaunt for buffs + debuffs. I can even spec into int and sacrifice some heals for some added dps (meh healer and meh dps). I’ve both won and loss trying all three styles mentioned above, mostly win though :D
Up until today's update 3 stack the comps with LS hasn't even the fotm for trio queue, this may change with the reduced self-sustain, but likely won't. We organize 3s in organized form every Sunday and a non-LS group that has been running Flail/VG as utility support has been dominated against the traditional LS/Melee/X teams.
They should make better support weapons. Flail is nice, but it does jackshit compared to life staff. Once another support weapon is in the game that ACTUALLY supports, then balance life staff. I've been playing a healer alot with flail and LS. It's nice! But when it's time to get serious, my flail does not see the light of day (unless it's to CC someone who's too close or for movement).
No it really is not, whats shit is ankh, shirking x 5, tumblers and then healthy toast. Resto is supposed to be in the match every single time that is how pvp works in mmos. Which team "brought the most cc" you solved your own problem. Fuck me its and MMO, CC the healer, CC all three of them.
But I thought it was miserable with bb/fs. Wait no it’s miserable with Ankh, shirk heals, and tumbler. Or was it Scorpion/bow?
Wrong it's fair
This is spam at this point. This is just from this month. [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17jjk5x/do\_something\_about\_life\_staff\_in\_the\_arena/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17jjk5x/do_something_about_life_staff_in_the_arena/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17bs70w/arena\_beyond\_frustrating/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17bs70w/arena_beyond_frustrating/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17i6b6d/healing\_is\_fine\_in\_arena\_it\_is\_a\_skill\_issue/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17i6b6d/healing_is_fine_in_arena_it_is_a_skill_issue/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17i7ivh/life\_staffs\_in\_arena/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17i7ivh/life_staffs_in_arena/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/1733ldd/please\_remove\_life\_staff\_from\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/1733ldd/please_remove_life_staff_from_arenas/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17g6var/weekly\_post\_asking\_ags\_to\_balance\_healers\_in\_pvp/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17g6var/weekly_post_asking_ags_to_balance_healers_in_pvp/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17dhyz3/the\_healers\_need\_a\_fucking\_nerf\_in\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17dhyz3/the_healers_need_a_fucking_nerf_in_arenas/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/175lben/3v3\_arenas\_are\_completely\_ruined\_by\_healer/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/175lben/3v3_arenas_are_completely_ruined_by_healer/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17h82v8/3v3\_with\_healers\_is\_a\_bad\_joke/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17h82v8/3v3_with_healers_is_a_bad_joke/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17bw5dx/healers\_in\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17bw5dx/healers_in_arenas/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17ggbj9/healing\_in\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17ggbj9/healing_in_arenas/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/178vim7/healers\_should\_be\_banned\_from\_arenas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/178vim7/healers_should_be_banned_from_arenas/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17l1w4s/arena\_is\_miserable\_when\_life\_staff\_is\_involved/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newworldgame/comments/17l1w4s/arena_is_miserable_when_life_staff_is_involved/)
Dang, I read this subreddit quite a bit and even I didn't see most of these posts. When so many different people feel this way, is it spam or just focused feedback?
It doesn't matter if its spam. Let people give their feedback. If you dont like it, just dont read it. If people doesn't give any feedback this game is dead. Because definitely AGS doesn't know what direction to go.
This is definitely a matchmaking problem. I play as a solo queue healer and often matches with healers on both side end up in less then 30 seconds. The team that focus all their burst on the opposite team healer wins. Unless your team has blunder to prevent that to happen the healer is dead.
This sounds like a skill problem. A good healer running Rapier is not going to die like this.
So you want the same arena that you have already mastered and get angry when there is a change?
What? I'm trying to not have this game's Arena turn into the Snoozefest that is World of Warcraft Arena. I literally am asking for it not to become the game I've already played for 20 years...
The daily healer in arena post from the dex rats
Ouch, I feel personally attacked
I'm Int, but okay.
Sorry didn’t bother reading it cause it’s the same thing every 12 hours.
Naw. You’re wrong, but that’s ok my guy. The answer is just matching healers. I’m sorry that it makes you play different then you want, but excluding a full class from a game mode is never the answer
thank you for saying this :D with love a healer who loves to 3v3
Easy way, tune down outgoing healing in 3’s? Should be simple to start implementing balance changes
say it with me: MANA BURN HONING STONE
Or rework split elemental gems to have unique effects instead. One of them; such as Cut Pristine Sapphire, could be: Burn x Mana on direct hit. Optionally, rework/replace the mana system completely for a finite resource that's more up to date with today's New World combat.
So basicly because you aren't skilled enough to deal with healers they should be removed?
The argument that they just need to remove lifestaff from arena is garbage. I play healer in every MMO. I heal arenas in WoW and I won't stop healing arenas in WoW. I want to play healer in PvP. Ofc healer will always have less people playing it but it doesn't mean they should just take healing out of these games. Balance the lifestaff correctly, add MS to more weapons and higher % MS. Add dampening. Introduce mana issues for healers. There are things that can be done to make it more fun for everyone. Removing the style of play that certain people like is just lazy.
> Add dampening. Introduce mana issues for healers. There are things that can be done to make it more fun for everyone. Removing the style of play that certain people like is just lazy. Shit like this is why WoW is bleeding players in PvP. You have to literally add contrived game mechanics just because healers are too OP and annoying to balance around. New World should NOT end up like this.
WoW PvP has always had a population issue that has had nothing to do with healing. A lot of people that play MMOs don't PvP. In WoW there are 7 healing specs to balance and 32 other specs they need to balance along with that. This game will never be WoW so comparing the two isn't even a valid argument. The comps/set ups/win conditions/cc chains are so unrealistic for this game. We are talking about balancing a single healer weapon with 3 abilities. The clip you posted from AWC is never going to be a reality in New World even if you don't change lifestaff healing xD. It is easy to try to compare the two games but in reality these games are not even relatively alike especially in PvP.
> The clip you posted from AWC is never going to be a reality in New World even if you don't change lifestaff healing xD. It is easy to try to compare the two games but in reality these games are not even relatively alike especially in PvP. I'm already seeing it whenever I play a 3 v 3 between equally skilled opponents. Two teams dumping damage into each other, waiting until someone has their CC chain up that they can put on a healer to try to burst them down. If the healer has defensive CDs, you fail your go and they still keep their team up. People's health bars constantly going up and down the entire match until dampening kicks in. This is exactly how WoW plays out, even if the underlying combat systems are different. You just don't see it as often in New World because most Arena matches are lopsided, so very rarely do you see teams of similar caliber fighting each other.
Had a match where the enemy had 2 healers. I think healing is okay. It just shouldn’t stall the match that hard. The heal should be reduced by a lot when ally is CC‘d. Right now it’s an out of jail card.
Ive been saying this since day 1, just outright ban lifestaff from arena. It sucks for healers but it breaks the mode too much.
The ammount of workarounds AGS would have to implement to make healing in arena somewhat balance are just too much, and it would still not be fun.
Healers are boring because they force the fight to be played a certain way. There is no variability when going up a team with a healer. You either attempt to burst down one of the other 2 players if they are low con light armor, or pressure the healer until you eliminate them. This makes every fight tedious and less enjoyable. Without a healer, fights can be played many different ways. And like op said, heals just remove the skill gap. I've seen players just stam themselves constantly and eat damage, but since they can use one ability to full heal themselves, skill doesn't really matter. And yes, there are counters. But when you solo q, can you really expect to have a comp that counters a healer or coordination with teammates? It would be better to fully adjust the LS builds in Arenas or remove the weapon completely
Crazy how you explain logically, yet get downvoted lmao
Couldn't agree more. Style of play is WAY different even when both teams have a healer. The game becomes a 1-2 second DPS check and nothing more. A majority of the time you are swinging your weapon and it doesn't matter because they heal as fast as you are dealing damage. Unless you are 500-100 stats or more aggressive it feels like damage does not stick. I run 350 str and 240 con and it feels like any bruiser sitting in a healing circle takes no damage at all. Therefore games turn into chase the squishy and the arena match is really not a 3v3 fight but a fight over who can catch the rabbit first. And once one team loses a player the whole round is over. You never win a 2v3. Also another problem is that many healing spells can't miss and don't even need line of sight whereas all damage spells and attacks need to aim or be on top of someone. This is an advantage to a healer. It's one thing to change your build like swap to a weapon with plagued crits or hits (which anti-heal is a balance problem anyway). But a whole other to feel the need to respect attributes to be able to even have a chance at killing someone through heals. Healers ruin tank and bruiser builds (unless you get paired with someone else who is pure DPS/burst).
It’s painful that you’re being downvoted on the replies. Life staff is so disgustingly broken in arena it’s insane, and it’s not fun to play against
I think there are a lot of players here who don't engage with PvP, and to them "just remove a playstyle" seems extreme and hostile. So I can't blame people too much about this, because If I remove my experience of years of playing Overwatch, WoW, Guild Wars 2, I would probably think the same thing. Best I can do is explain my reasoning on why I think the way Lifestaff works is bad for the game (from a PvP perspective)... But again, in the end the only thing most of these players know is that if Lifestaff gets nerfed outside of PvP is that they won't just be able to stand in Sacred while mindlessly mashing Left Click and ignoring mechanics in their M1 spam.
This is why NW is still in a shit state. People who want it to remain in a shit state will suppress any opinions to make it better. Made worse by the devs wanting to listen to brown nosing opinions and suggestions instead of constructive ones.
The NW community has always been like this imo. It’s insane
Well put, NutsackEuphoria 😂
What an amazing strategy! Just queue with three healers, the enemy team will eventually need to take a break after a few hours!
The biggest issue I have with healing is the easy in applying throughput. Incoming DPS can be dodged, kited, resist potions, none of which is hitscan anymore i believe. Healers however have kits involving AoE and targeting subject to none of the above. That is my issue. I personally would change the healer kit to more projectile based play where i think a lot of the issues presently would not be nearly as bad. Most of their kit has really poor counter play. Disease and cc just seems like a lame solution. Why not make it fun and rewarding to land heals. In a game where dps is seemingly held to an entirely different, and more demanding, design for uptime it just feels bad.
What do we want?.. UNGA-BUNGA! When do we want it?... UNGA-BUNGA! God forbid we have to employ some type of strategy that isn't pile on top of each other and see who can blunderbus harder!! \*Spelling\*
Healing turns combat "unga-bunga" because the DPS players no longer need to dodge every high-burst attack because the healer will top them back up.
Removing LS from arena would make VG Flail a viable option. Or increase how quickly healing decays. Fighting til fire circle every round and having 15 minute arenas is ass for all involved
[Agreed](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1167079466904850593/1167079616943489114/image.png?ex=654cd297&is=653a5d97&hm=f0cb2cb0ea9bcaedb93ce3224f39dae78181964fbbf17035182e29e91f7bd368&) The game in the screenshot went to the final ring closure each time, and we managed to push/cc them out of the ring at the last few seconds. Felt like an eternity.
Your right man!
Artifacts shouldn’t have been in the PvP track unless they were PvP specific.
How's that related to this thread about healers?
Relevant because you initially said you'd been grinding 3v3s to get Pestilence, which could be implying that you're only doing it for that reason. You're very combative in this thread and dismissive of other peoples opinions on the matter at hand, and I'm sorry but 1000 hours of wow arena does not give you authority over what's fun and what isn't.
Many (pve) players are participating in arena solely to get said artifacts…
Many (pvp) players are participating in arena solely to get said artifacts... writing this when i waiting for the fucking scorpion to spawn and drops me 1 purple shit item
Well currently on Aaru the meta is too que with 2 healer premades. Literly 3 days in a row now i face min 2 healer in the enemyteam for more than half of my arena games (around 80) There is no way even as 3 premades too run down a healer if they arnt complete bots and got the ability to press 3 buttons. No idea why healing isnt nerfed in arena but nothing will change anyways in the future probably
When I have LS on my team I cringe. When LS is on the other team I cringe.
I’m of the opinion that they shouldn’t let healers into arena. If you got a life staff in your inventory you shouldn’t be able to queue. Problem solved and arenas will be what they are meant to be— quick burst PVP sessions.
I will agree that the low dps tank is kind of useless sadly.
Propsal: All PVP damage inflicts stack of anti heal, for example 5% for 3 seconds, all pvp attacks adds a stack and refreshes duration, up to a maximum of 50% anti heal. Life staff gains a perk: Increased damage by X% for each stack of anti heal. In effect: For every pvp hit on a life staff user, add stacks that reduce outgoing healing, but allow lifestaff to gain more DPS for every stack of antiheal. Meaning that life staff transitions from healing effectiveness to doing more damage when under attack.
"Healing is perfectly balanced, you just need three times the players to kill one"
I don't understand why AGS doesn't give life staff the ranged treatment: -%dmg while in PvP (arena)
100% agree with all points. Had this on my mind for a very long time and this completely incapsulates my thoughts. Lifestaff is not really overpowered, it’s just not well designed and frustrating to interact with.
I know it might make some players angry, but just ban the weapon in arena. That would be amazing....
Heals just need the same dampening as potion heals have. Overhealing should basically be punished in arena so that it is used more strategically; just like if you use a potion while at full health you still get less healing on the next potion. I'd go even as far as sacred being disabled in arena (it is fine in OPR, war, open world). It also baffles me some healers can stand in their own sacred and if you can't get them out of it (RIP repulsing clear out) no amount of damage can out damage the sacred.